Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon
Location of this car? Mobile website surfing stinks. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon
I believe it was in Daytona Beach, FL. Dan On Jul 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Location of this car? Mobile website surfing stinks. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon
Thanks Dan, pix look like FL. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On July 24, 2015 12:48:17 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I believe it was in Daytona Beach, FL. Dan On Jul 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Location of this car? Mobile website surfing stinks. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon
I think you guys are confirmed bottom-feeders, struggling to justify why the old adage about a cheap Mercedes is wrong. Assuming the seller is not lying, a low mile and rust free diesel wagon that is not rough should easily be worth twice what they go for all the time. Local market will drive the price. If I were shopping for another wagon, I'd be all over that. -- Max Dillon (who paid too much for his wagon) Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon
On July 24, 2015 at 10:16 AM Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: His is about a $3500 car Spending a ton of money bringing a car up to snuff does not raise its market value a corresponding amount, but it does make the car a much better deal at $3500 than a $2500 car that still needs all that stuff done to it. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon
A common line of thinking on Craigslist. “I just put an exorbitant amount of money into this car so now it’s worth that and more.” Never seems to work out, either. Dan On Jul 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Spending a ton of money bringing a car up to snuff does not raise its market value a corresponding amount, but it does make the car a much better deal at $3500 than a $2500 car that still needs all that stuff done to it. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon
Exactly. Otherwise it would be a 2-2.5k car like you say. Maybe even less. 124 diesels are almost free these days around here. There was a decent 87 300d on cl a couple months ago that would not start after a filter change. Somebody bought it as I saw it in the last couple of weeks, runs and drives now. Price was $1900. Several weeks later it is now $900 and the ad is still up so I assume he has not sold it. I have a rough 87TD with a #17 head I but on cl for $1500 to see if there would be any action and I have got no bites. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2015, at 2:20 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On July 24, 2015 at 10:16 AM Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: His is about a $3500 car Spending a ton of money bringing a car up to snuff does not raise its market value a corresponding amount, but it does make the car a much better deal at $3500 than a $2500 car that still needs all that stuff done to it. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD rev counter.
Curly, The plug on the top of the IP is the rack position sensor, nothing to do with idle. It has a locking ring that needs to be turned to allow removal. There is a small two pin connector at the back of the IP, between IP and cruise control actuator, which is for idle. Pinch to release. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On July 13, 2015 12:00:18 AM EDT, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: (I think EDC is the book term for the electronic idle speed control plug on the top of the IP.) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD rev counter.
No, that one is for diagnostics, specifically setting the injection timing with the dynamic tool. The one for the idle speed/tach is on the rear of the engine reading off the flywheel. Peter Interesting. Thanks again. We have a 87 124 300D that has a completely wacko idle. Everything I've tried makes no difference. I think the tach also goes wacky with the idle. But when I unhook the idle speed electric connector on the pump it does the same wacky idle thing.I never thought of looking at the tach/instrument cluster as Dan suggests. Is there some other connection between the hall effect sensor/tachometer to the throttle or idle speed control that would work with the EDC unhooked? (I think EDC is the book term for the electronic idle speed control plug on the top of the IP.) It sounds like a flakey signal from the sensor would cause this, but I don't understand how it could work with the plug on top of the IP disconnected. Next time I see the car (probably 6 months) I will look for this sender and connector at the rear. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
I think I just put a mark on the bolts when I did it on a OM602. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 9:25 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: It's aluminum, under high pressure, and too expensive for me to risk messing it up. YMMV. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Ok, but why? Removing and re-torquing one bolt at a time doesn't seem like a recipe for warping the head. There are twenty-two of them! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: NO! - Loosen the bolts in the pattern in the book - then re-torque/stretch them per the book. Do not pull out the bolts one at a time - at the risk of warping the head. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: So should I pull one bolt at a time, measure stretch to make sure it is still within spec, then torque in the three stages without the ten minute wait before the last 90 degree turn, or do I need to keep the wait? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
I thought you had a special wrench to measure the 90 degree rotations. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: I didn't use anything fancy at all. I just used the $40 digital torque wrench adapter from HF. I read a recent review about this showing it was just as precise (in some cases more) than others. Looks it on sale! http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-torue-adapter-68283.html Sent from my ASUS Pad Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I only drove it a couple hundred miles and parked it. Sometimes the upper radiator hose would stay pressurized after the engine cooled, so I'm suspicious that either the head is bad, the gasket is bad, or I didn't properly torque the head bolts. I'd love to borrow that fancy torque wrench that Rolf used, and re-torque my head bolts. I'm also concerned about a problem with one of the hydraulic lifters. You may recall that I had to bleed one down to get full valve closure for one valve. When I fixed that, I discovered that the bore for the intake valve lifter for the number six cylinder has a problem. The bottom half of the bore is too big, looks like it was eroded away. The lifter can get cocked in the bore, making it very hard to remove. At first I thought that some grit must have contaminated that bore during my work, and wore out the bottom half. After talking with a machinist, he explained that is not possible. If grit had contaminated the bore, it would have scored all of the bore equally, not just the lower half, and the scoring would look nothing like erosion. He thinks it is a casting flaw, and had probably been there from the factory. I'm worried that eventually the lifter will get cocked so bad it will break the camshaft. So I'm going to dive in again soon, work has finally slowed a little so I'm not traveling every week, but I'm not too happy about pulling the head off again. I really wish there was an oversize repair lifter, do I could machine out the bore to restore it and keep this head. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Max, what's the latest with your 300TD? You had a head prob; is that solved; is it running, etc.? Is the E300's cooing sys (cabin) OK? Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Max Dillon wrote: I thought you had a special wrench to measure the 90 degree rotations. Snap-On has one of those. Or you can paint 4 lines or arrows on your socket. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Haven't driven it very far, didn't see any coolant loss yet. Head is a #20, was pressure checked by machine shop prior to installation, so I would really doubt that, but that is the must common reason for pressurized cooling system. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: Ugh, that means you may have a cracked head. Not a good deal. Does it use coolant? If not, probably not a cracked head. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
I may try something along those lines, attach a pointer to the socket and lay a 90 degree guide on the head. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Max Dillon wrote: I thought you had a special wrench to measure the 90 degree rotations. Snap-On has one of those. Or you can paint 4 lines or arrows on your socket. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
That is a good idea. You can feel the bolts yield. To my thinking, if you get 85 or 95 º of turn, as long as you feel the bolt yield, it won't make that much difference. So I don't think you have to be that accurate. Loren I may try something along those lines, attach a pointer to the socket and lay a 90 degree guide on the head. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Max Dillon wrote: I thought you had a special wrench to measure the 90 degree rotations. Snap-On has one of those. Or you can paint 4 lines or arrows on your socket. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
So should I pull one bolt at a time, measure stretch to make sure it is still within spec, then torque in the three stages without the ten minute wait before the last 90 degree turn, or do I need to keep the wait? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: That is a good idea. You can feel the bolts yield. To my thinking, if you get 85 or 95 º of turn, as long as you feel the bolt yield, it won't make that much difference. So I don't think you have to be that accurate. Loren I may try something along those lines, attach a pointer to the socket and lay a 90 degree guide on the head. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Max Dillon wrote: I thought you had a special wrench to measure the 90 degree rotations. Snap-On has one of those. Or you can paint 4 lines or arrows on your socket. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
No, that is not what I am saying at all. Follow the book procedure. On a normal bolt, the more you turn it, the tighter it gets. On the stretch bolts, as you make the two 90º turns per the book , at some point in the turn it no longer takes increasing power as the bolt turns. This means you have reached the point of elasticity of the bolt. (as designed to do) This is when the bolt stretches. WHat you feel on the handle is a more or less linear increase of force, then a levelling off. On the second turn, the last 30-40 º of turn is typically stretch. You only measure the stretch when you take them out of the head. Or are you asking about retorquing? I have never seen an instruction for retorquing. If you want to retorque one at a time, then yes, I think you can pull, measure, then retorque. I am not sure about the 10 min wait. You could do all of them fhe first 90, then wait 10, and do the second turn on all and still satisfy the book without removing the head. You could also try a rudimentary Cyl head leakage test. through the inj hole or the GP hole to see if you can hear any leaks. So should I pull one bolt at a time, measure stretch to make sure it is still within spec, then torque in the three stages without the ten minute wait before the last 90 degree turn, or do I need to keep the wait? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: That is a good idea. You can feel the bolts yield. To my thinking, if you get 85 or 95 º of turn, as long as you feel the bolt yield, it won't make that much difference. So I don't think you have to be that accurate. Loren I may try something along those lines, attach a pointer to the socket and lay a 90 degree guide on the head. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Max Dillon wrote: I thought you had a special wrench to measure the 90 degree rotations. Snap-On has one of those. Or you can paint 4 lines or arrows on your socket. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
NO! - Loosen the bolts in the pattern in the book - then re-torque/stretch them per the book. Do not pull out the bolts one at a time - at the risk of warping the head. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: So should I pull one bolt at a time, measure stretch to make sure it is still within spec, then torque in the three stages without the ten minute wait before the last 90 degree turn, or do I need to keep the wait? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 -- OK Don 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Ok, but why? Removing and re-torquing one bolt at a time doesn't seem like a recipe for warping the head. There are twenty-two of them! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: NO! - Loosen the bolts in the pattern in the book - then re-torque/stretch them per the book. Do not pull out the bolts one at a time - at the risk of warping the head. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: So should I pull one bolt at a time, measure stretch to make sure it is still within spec, then torque in the three stages without the ten minute wait before the last 90 degree turn, or do I need to keep the wait? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
It's aluminum, under high pressure, and too expensive for me to risk messing it up. YMMV. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: Ok, but why? Removing and re-torquing one bolt at a time doesn't seem like a recipe for warping the head. There are twenty-two of them! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: NO! - Loosen the bolts in the pattern in the book - then re-torque/stretch them per the book. Do not pull out the bolts one at a time - at the risk of warping the head. On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.netwrote: So should I pull one bolt at a time, measure stretch to make sure it is still within spec, then torque in the three stages without the ten minute wait before the last 90 degree turn, or do I need to keep the wait? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 87 300TD
Max, what's the latest with your 300TD? You had a head prob; is that solved; is it running, etc.? Is the E300's cooing sys (cabin) OK? Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
I only drove it a couple hundred miles and parked it. Sometimes the upper radiator hose would stay pressurized after the engine cooled, so I'm suspicious that either the head is bad, the gasket is bad, or I didn't properly torque the head bolts. I'd love to borrow that fancy torque wrench that Rolf used, and re-torque my head bolts. I'm also concerned about a problem with one of the hydraulic lifters. You may recall that I had to bleed one down to get full valve closure for one valve. When I fixed that, I discovered that the bore for the intake valve lifter for the number six cylinder has a problem. The bottom half of the bore is too big, looks like it was eroded away. The lifter can get cocked in the bore, making it very hard to remove. At first I thought that some grit must have contaminated that bore during my work, and wore out the bottom half. After talking with a machinist, he explained that is not possible. If grit had contaminated the bore, it would have scored all of the bore equally, not just the lower half, and the scoring would look nothing like erosion. He thinks it is a casting flaw, and had probably been there from the factory. I'm worried that eventually the lifter will get cocked so bad it will break the camshaft. So I'm going to dive in again soon, work has finally slowed a little so I'm not traveling every week, but I'm not too happy about pulling the head off again. I really wish there was an oversize repair lifter, do I could machine out the bore to restore it and keep this head. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Max, what's the latest with your 300TD? You had a head prob; is that solved; is it running, etc.? Is the E300's cooing sys (cabin) OK? Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
You should only need a torque wrench for the first step of head bolt tightening, to 35 ft/lbs. After that it's a 90 degree turn, wait 10 min, do another 90 degrees. If you attempt to use a torque wrench for final tightening, you will either break the bolts or leave it too loose, depending on what you try to use for a torque. These are stretch bolts, and do NOT have a defined final torque. Not only that, buy my friend Hans strongly recommends tossing them any time you take the head off and put brand new ones in. It's fine to reuse them on the gassers if they aren't stretched too much, but he's never had a head seal properly for long if you re-use the diesel ones. Much cheaper than a new head gasket set. Can't help you on the lifter bore, you might want to take it too a good head shop and see if they can sleeve it for you. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Peter, Yes, I used new head bolts, followed the FSM procedure, but used a breaker bar for the ninety degree turns. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: You should only need a torque wrench for the first step of head bolt tightening, to 35 ft/lbs. After that it's a 90 degree turn, wait 10 min, do another 90 degrees. If you attempt to use a torque wrench for final tightening, you will either break the bolts or leave it too loose, depending on what you try to use for a torque. These are stretch bolts, and do NOT have a defined final torque. Not only that, buy my friend Hans strongly recommends tossing them any time you take the head off and put brand new ones in. It's fine to reuse them on the gassers if they aren't stretched too much, but he's never had a head seal properly for long if you re-use the diesel ones. Much cheaper than a new head gasket set. Can't help you on the lifter bore, you might want to take it too a good head shop and see if they can sleeve it for you. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
I didn't use anything fancy at all. I just used the $40 digital torque wrench adapter from HF. I read a recent review about this showing it was just as precise (in some cases more) than others. Looks it on sale! http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-torue-adapter-68283.html Sent from my ASUS Pad Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I only drove it a couple hundred miles and parked it. Sometimes the upper radiator hose would stay pressurized after the engine cooled, so I'm suspicious that either the head is bad, the gasket is bad, or I didn't properly torque the head bolts. I'd love to borrow that fancy torque wrench that Rolf used, and re-torque my head bolts. I'm also concerned about a problem with one of the hydraulic lifters. You may recall that I had to bleed one down to get full valve closure for one valve. When I fixed that, I discovered that the bore for the intake valve lifter for the number six cylinder has a problem. The bottom half of the bore is too big, looks like it was eroded away. The lifter can get cocked in the bore, making it very hard to remove. At first I thought that some grit must have contaminated that bore during my work, and wore out the bottom half. After talking with a machinist, he explained that is not possible. If grit had contaminated the bore, it would have scored all of the bore equally, not just the lower half, and the scoring would look nothing like erosion. He thinks it is a casting flaw, and had probably been there from the factory. I'm worried that eventually the lifter will get cocked so bad it will break the camshaft. So I'm going to dive in again soon, work has finally slowed a little so I'm not traveling every week, but I'm not too happy about pulling the head off again. I really wish there was an oversize repair lifter, do I could machine out the bore to restore it and keep this head. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Max, what's the latest with your 300TD? You had a head prob; is that solved; is it running, etc.? Is the E300's cooing sys (cabin) OK? Wilton ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
So I actually added a step in between (before the final tightening sequence) and gave them an extra while to sit before that last 90* Heads coming off again so I can pop the pistons out and rehone the cylinders and hope I get better compression for cheap. All the fuel my super pump dumps in is causing misfires. -Rolf Sent from my ASUS Pad Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Peter, Yes, I used new head bolts, followed the FSM procedure, but used a breaker bar for the ninety degree turns. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: You should only need a torque wrench for the first step of head bolt tightening, to 35 ft/lbs. After that it's a 90 degree turn, wait 10 min, do another 90 degrees. If you attempt to use a torque wrench for final tightening, you will either break the bolts or leave it too loose, depending on what you try to use for a torque. These are stretch bolts, and do NOT have a defined final torque. Not only that, buy my friend Hans strongly recommends tossing them any time you take the head off and put brand new ones in. It's fine to reuse them on the gassers if they aren't stretched too much, but he's never had a head seal properly for long if you re-use the diesel ones. Much cheaper than a new head gasket set. Can't help you on the lifter bore, you might want to take it too a good head shop and see if they can sleeve it for you. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Ugh, that means you may have a cracked head. Not a good deal. Does it use coolant? If not, probably not a cracked head. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD WVO
On 13/10/2011 6:13 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote: On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 13/10/2011 3:26 PM, Allan Streib wrote: This guy seems to be fairly straight about his car http://bloomington.craigslist.org/cto/2646704174.html One could remove and sell the WVO kit but one would NEVER get the smell of frenchfries out of that interior. I can think of much worse smells to be permanently stuck with in a car! Alex Maybe, but I suggest it would get old in a hurry. I guess it may depend on how careful he was but looking at that tank sitting in the well at the back of the car leads me to believe that spills have probably occurred. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD WVO
On Friday, October 14, 2011 11:15 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: I guess it may depend on how careful he was but looking at that tank sitting in the well at the back of the car leads me to believe that spills have probably occurred. Good steam cleaning with strong detergent would get most of it, if there is any. Worst case pull out the carpet and replace. I personally would not knowingly buy a car that had ever been run on WVO, but the way this ad was written it seemed that the owner was doing things like careful filtering and using a proper pre-heated system not just pulling up at the back of McDonald's and siphoning grease into the fuel tank. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 87 300TD WVO
This guy seems to be fairly straight about his car http://bloomington.craigslist.org/cto/2646704174.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD WVO
On 13/10/2011 3:26 PM, Allan Streib wrote: This guy seems to be fairly straight about his car http://bloomington.craigslist.org/cto/2646704174.html One could remove and sell the WVO kit but one would NEVER get the smell of frenchfries out of that interior. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD WVO
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 13/10/2011 3:26 PM, Allan Streib wrote: This guy seems to be fairly straight about his car http://bloomington.craigslist.org/cto/2646704174.html One could remove and sell the WVO kit but one would NEVER get the smell of frenchfries out of that interior. I can think of much worse smells to be permanently stuck with in a car! Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes, and it seems that there are heads with numbers from 16 on up to 22. Attached is a picture of the casting of the part number from the head I just took off my wagon. It is a number 14 head, the number is found above the number two injector hole. This car has 330,000 miles, has been using a very small amount of coolant for years, but never had the hard upper hose when cold. Coolant was finally detected in the engine oil, I'm in the process of replacing with a number 17 head. On the old head, there are cracks between every intake and exhaust valve seat. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: OK, so did all 87s come with the 14 head and then later some had them replaced? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMAG0115.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 176206 bytes Desc: not available URL: http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20110731/8bffb39f/attachment.jpg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net writes: This car has 330,000 miles, has been using a very small amount of coolant for years, but never had the hard upper hose when cold. I've had a question about this test, is this done with the engine running and cold (i.e. just after a cold start) or is the hose hard with the engine cold and off (i.e. after cool-down). Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Test is hard hose after cool down, engine not running. Requires a good coolant tank, which one should not assume by this age. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
But a 14 head is not a conviction. All of my 603s have or have had 14 heads. My original SDL was the best running of all and had over 400K on the 14 head. The last time this came up, the general discussion was that if the 14 head survived this long, it would probably live out its life. (Provided it is not overheated) all the rest have 200 to 300 K on them. I have never had the head off a 60x yet. Look for signs of leaking head gasket and signs of a cracked head. Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
No, I think that is the later 124s which had weak evaporators and wiring harnesses that disintegrate. 1994 1995 I think, but now I'm remembering that Wilton replaced one for one of his cars Which one was that Wilton? Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: OK Don wrote: Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. ... but would prefer to see evidence of a recent evaporator replacement. Mitch. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Max Dillon wrote: No, I think that is the later 124s which had weak evaporators and wiring harnesses that disintegrate. 1994 1995 I think, but now I'm remembering that Wilton replaced one for one of his cars Which one was that Wilton? Wilton has a very well preserved 1987 sedan, he looked for a long time and bought the best one he found. The evap was upgraded over the years, but I don't know specifics. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Evaporator failures ran 15-30%, I believe (two out of three at our house), probably due to the use of copper pipes swagged onto aluminum cores. They crack at the junctions between the pipes and core as a general rule, although other failures are possible. The new ones are all aluminum, wonder of wonders, and don't crack that I know of. BIG job -- not really difficult, but very fiddlesome (dash has to come out completely) and very time consuming. Book time per MB is 16 hours, so the first one is more likely 20 for the average DIY type. Took me three days. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Chances are if the car has made it this far you are not going to have head problems. -Rolf On 7/30/2011 7:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Isn't this the one with a picture of a head gasket amongst other parts in the back? If there is no head problem why buy the parts?(unless you find a deal on them or something like that.) Worth asking about right? Maybe they know it has an early head and bought parts just in case? Mike On Jul 31, 2011 10:06 AM, Rolf r...@winmutt.com wrote: Chances are if the car has made it this far you are not going to have head problems. -Rolf On 7/30/2011 7:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Evapectomy on '87 300D built in Oct '86. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? No, I think that is the later 124s which had weak evaporators and wiring harnesses that disintegrate. 1994 1995 I think, but now I'm remembering that Wilton replaced one for one of his cars Which one was that Wilton? Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: OK Don wrote: Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. ... but would prefer to see evidence of a recent evaporator replacement. Mitch. _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Well, it looks like a 4 more than anything else. The opening in the 4 is fairly well closed - not a clear point on left side, but I think it's a 4. Is it in the right place in the number to denote 14, 16, etc., - 2 digits by themselves. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
'Just looked again. Head on my 87 300D is highly likely a 14; head on my 91 350SDL is clearly a 17. Wilton - Original Message - From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? Well, it looks like a 4 more than anything else. The opening in the 4 is fairly well closed - not a clear point on left side, but I think it's a 4. Is it in the right place in the number to denote 14, 16, etc., - 2 digits by themselves. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Some of them last forever, some cracked in 50k miles. You have a good one -- just don't ever let it get really hot, does them in every time. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes, that's the right position in the sequence. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Well, it looks like a 4 more than anything else. The opening in the 4 is fairly well closed - not a clear point on left side, but I think it's a 4. Is it in the right place in the number to denote 14, 16, etc., - 2 digits by themselves. Wilton - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That's a 14 head, if the digit you're not sure of is a 4. Max -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Tried to read # on my '87 300D head few minutes ago; 'looks like 603 016 1(maybe 4, can't be sure - not clear) etc.; so, is my head a 16 or a 14; I suspect it's a 14; 'never heard/known anything about its being changed. No prob with it now that I can tell. 123 kmi. Wilton - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car? That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
The head is easily replaced. Else a standard W124 -- mine has about 350,000 miles on it and is doing pretty well for it's age! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
My brother found one he's interested in. Is there a specific head to look out for? What is the problem with the heads? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 7:28 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: The head is easily replaced. Else a standard W124 -- mine has about 350,000 miles on it and is doing pretty well for it's age! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Actually I think they're quite nice looking. It's the mechanicals I'm concerned about. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:05 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Not that wagon. The newer ones, I forget the model but someone was selling one here not long ago I think. Mike On Jul 30, 2011 8:05 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Marshall, or someone else, posited that they defective #14 heads have all failed and been replaced by now. While not absolute, and overheating will still crack good heads, I think there might be some merit to that statement. The '87 SDL I had still had the original head at 200,000 miles and showed no signs of being cracked. A hard upper radiator hose on a cold engine is one possible indication of a crackede head, though not the only one. Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.netwrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
OK, so did all 87s come with the 14 head and then later some had them replaced? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes. The later heads were also found on later cars - the 350SDL for example. On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:55 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.comwrote: OK, so did all 87s come with the 14 head and then later some had them replaced? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:26 PM, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow, now that is the answer I was looking for! Thank you. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: In the middle of the part number on the head is a two digit code -- the original is -14-. the first improved head is -17- and the best version is the -22- one. They crack through from the combustion chamber to the coolant and or oil passages, causing the usual results -- overheating, coolant use, etc. The head gaskets also fail pretty often, between cylinders and from cooling passages or oil return to the outside, resulting in leaks. Worst failure is between the oil passage across the front of the block -- failure here allows oil to enter the #1 cylinder under pressure. If enough gets in there, the #1 rod gets bent. All the bits from the -14- head will fit the -22-, with the proviso that it may be necessary to machine the pre-chambers to clear the bottom of the large hole in the heads. The correct ones, with inclined injectors, are a bit shorter at the shoulder, and if they don't fit correctly the pre-chamber will leak compression at the upper seal, usually badly enough that the engine will not run. Always use all new head bolts, they often fail when re-used, as I discovered on my old 300D. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
That engine was sold in various versions (4, 5, and 6 cylinder) from 1984 to 1995 or so. The original design was part # 14, and it failed in service enough that by 1993 when the SDL was sold again it had the #17 head on it (nine years later(. The #14 was used on all OM603 engines sold in the US in 1986 and 1987, and probably all of them have cracked by now. If failed in normal service, not as a result of overheating, which can crack any of them. I'm not sure which one I had on the old 300D, the current car has had it replaced with a newer version. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
The Escort looking ones are like the e series wagon Kleb is going to look at. Mike On Jul 30, 2011 8:05 PM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: Well, the wagons look like a Ford Escort, according to someone here. On 7/30/11, Dimitri Seretakis dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Isn't their some concern with the 87 diesels? A certain problematic head or something? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Michael Canfield wrote: Not that wagon. The newer ones, I forget the model but someone was selling one here not long ago I think. Ohh, you think the 210 wagon looks like a y2k Escort, not that a 124 wagon looks like a 1981 Escort. I guess the round headlights and hood are sort of similar. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
Yes, you got it. Mike On Jul 30, 2011 10:01 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Michael Canfield wrote: Not that wagon. The newer ones, I forget the model but someone was selling one here not long ago I think. Ohh, you think the 210 wagon looks like a y2k Escort, not that a 124 wagon looks like a 1981 Escort. I guess the round headlights and hood are sort of similar. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD is this an OK car?
OK Don wrote: Bottom line, if I didn't see signs of a cracked head, I would not be afraid of the car. ... but would prefer to see evidence of a recent evaporator replacement. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD head removal
Mitch, Thanks! A little research in the service manuals shows that the same tool is used for both OM617 and OM603 engines, so I shall procure the 8x1.25 grade 12.9 bolt and proceed. Still need to find the time for all this work though... Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 2:05:35 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD head removal Max Dillon wrote: I don't have a nice assortment to select from, so I'll need to go buy something. You think it could be between 4, 5 and 6mm? Oops, it looks like I guessed small. I thought the threaded hole was in the pin, but it's only in the head of the pin, and is pretty large. Somebody made a puller for a 617 with an 8x1.25 bolt. Looks like you run a long bolt into the tensioner pin until it bottoms out, then run a nut down on the bolt to extract. One guy had an 8.8 bolt fail, so he bought a grade 12.9 for more pull before failure. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=288848 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] '87 300TD head removal
Dieselvolk, Can anyone provide the specifications for the shop-made slide rail pin pulling tool? I think it is supposed to be a bolt 6mm in diameter with a nut and stack of washer, but how long, how deep a washer stack, and are the threads 6mm x1.0 or some other dimension? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD head removal
Max Dillon wrote: Dieselvolk, Can anyone provide the specifications for the shop-made slide rail pin pulling tool? I think it is supposed to be a bolt 6mm in diameter with a nut and stack of washer, but how long, how deep a washer stack, and are the threads 6mm x1.0 or some other dimension? I wouldn't sweat the details too much (but I've got an assortment of 4, 5, and 6mm bolts laying around already). Just find a bolt that threads in smoothly, stick a washer and a socket over it, make sure it goes in 4 threads before it gets tight, and crank down on it until you meet resistance or it comes out. (you don't want to bottom out on the threads and then keep turning it) If you bottomed out, unscrew it and start over with a longer socket or more washers. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD head removal
I don't have a nice assortment to select from, so I'll need to go buy something. You think it could be between 4, 5 and 6mm? Very respectfully, /s/ Max Dillon '87 300TD 334k miles '95 E300 280k miles '73 Balboa 20 Charleston SC From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 10:52:28 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD head removal Max Dillon wrote: Dieselvolk, Can anyone provide the specifications for the shop-made slide rail pin pulling tool? I think it is supposed to be a bolt 6mm in diameter with a nut and stack of washer, but how long, how deep a washer stack, and are the threads 6mm x1.0 or some other dimension? I wouldn't sweat the details too much (but I've got an assortment of 4, 5, and 6mm bolts laying around already). Just find a bolt that threads in smoothly, stick a washer and a socket over it, make sure it goes in 4 threads before it gets tight, and crank down on it until you meet resistance or it comes out. (you don't want to bottom out on the threads and then keep turning it) If you bottomed out, unscrew it and start over with a longer socket or more washers. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] '87 300TD head removal
Max Dillon wrote: I don't have a nice assortment to select from, so I'll need to go buy something. You think it could be between 4, 5 and 6mm? Oops, it looks like I guessed small. I thought the threaded hole was in the pin, but it's only in the head of the pin, and is pretty large. Somebody made a puller for a 617 with an 8x1.25 bolt. Looks like you run a long bolt into the tensioner pin until it bottoms out, then run a nut down on the bolt to extract. One guy had an 8.8 bolt fail, so he bought a grade 12.9 for more pull before failure. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=288848 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 87 300TD, how to get rear hatch open
On my 87 300TD, cant get the hatch open. IIRC, I dont think they key will turn, so Im thinking maybe its stuck in the lock position. Anybody have a way of getting the hatch open? Anybody BTDT? -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 86 560SL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250, 66 220SEb http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD, how to get rear hatch open
Apply pressure to the lock line, that should pop it to the unlock position. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 87 300TD
Needs trans. http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/601340048.html No Afililliation, not mine (Damm!) Fred Moir Lynn MA Dieselitis Maximus ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Frederick W Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Needs trans. http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/601340048.html Wow, that dark blue looks great with the 16 210 wheels. Classy. Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
I bet that's not all it needs... On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Alex Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Frederick W Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Needs trans. http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/601340048.html Wow, that dark blue looks great with the 16 210 wheels. Classy. Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Frederick W Moir wrote: Needs trans. http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/601340048.html If you can take it for a test drive w/o the owner, unplug the fuse that drives the kickdown circuit and see what happens. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Mitch, et al. I would love to take it for a drive, but I have no budget for another car right now. If anyone is seriously interested, it is in the next town, close by, I could take pics, and kick tyres. Fred Moir Lynn MA http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/601340048.html If you can take it for a test drive w/o the owner, unplug the fuse that drives the kickdown circuit and see what happens. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
I wonder if I should sell my 1983 (282 K miles) 300TD, which needs about $1500 in rust repair, or should I fix it up and keep it. I would like an 87 300TD if I could find a nice one that doesn't cost the earth. I imagine I could get between $1500 and $2K for my wagon as is. Anybody willing to impart some advice? On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Frederick W Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mitch, et al. I would love to take it for a drive, but I have no budget for another car right now. If anyone is seriously interested, it is in the next town, close by, I could take pics, and kick tyres. Fred Moir Lynn MA http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/601340048.html If you can take it for a test drive w/o the owner, unplug the fuse that drives the kickdown circuit and see what happens. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD
Same old story Andrew. Rust never ends and putting $ into an old car is seldom profitable. If you are already thinking you want something else then it is likely not a good plan to spend more on your existing car - unless you are certain you will increase its value to where you will at least break even and hopefully even profit somewhat. Randy who has the same issues with a 4Runner -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 11:22 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD I wonder if I should sell my 1983 (282 K miles) 300TD, which needs about $1500 in rust repair, or should I fix it up and keep it. I would like an 87 300TD if I could find a nice one that doesn't cost the earth. I imagine I could get between $1500 and $2K for my wagon as is. Anybody willing to impart some advice? On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 12:14 PM, Frederick W Moir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mitch, et al. I would love to take it for a drive, but I have no budget for another car right now. If anyone is seriously interested, it is in the next town, close by, I could take pics, and kick tyres. Fred Moir Lynn MA http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/car/601340048.html If you can take it for a test drive w/o the owner, unplug the fuse that drives the kickdown circuit and see what happens. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
They are WAY overpriced. Better off just buying a 300TE instead and saving alot of cash. carbucks wrote: Hi, While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. Here's what I've discovered so far. NADA ranges from $3950 to $8600 Original MSRP: $42,500 Low Retail http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1# Average Retail Value http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1# High Retail http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1# Base Price$3,950 $5,150 $8,600 TOTAL PRICE $3,950 $5,150 http://www.nadaguides.com/LinkTracker.aspx?itemid=50361LI=1-21-1-5014-708-745-50361l=1w=21p=20f=5605xq=price-5150* $8,600 Ebay Buy Now prices are currently in the $10 000 range. Autotrader and cars.com listed prices range from $7000 to $13500 Martin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
carbucks wrote: Sounds like you got a lemon. Sold both my 2000 Jetta TDI and 2004 Golf TDI after a couple of years of ownership and no maintenance hassle for just slightly below what I paid for them new (exempting taxes). That's exactly my problem with them. Asking prices for 3-4 year old cars with 80-100k on them look like what I might be willing to pay for a new car. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Hi, While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. Here's what I've discovered so far. NADA ranges from $3950 to $8600 Original MSRP: $42,500 Low Retail http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1# Average Retail Value http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1# High Retail http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1# Base Price $3,950 $5,150 $8,600 TOTAL PRICE $3,950 $5,150 http://www.nadaguides.com/LinkTracker.aspx?itemid=50361LI=1-21-1-5014-708-745-50361l=1w=21p=20f=5605xq=price-5150* $8,600 Ebay Buy Now prices are currently in the $10 000 range. Autotrader and cars.com listed prices range from $7000 to $13500 Martin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
carbucks wrote: While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. Here's what I've discovered so far. There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is very sought after... so prices are all over the place. One in *nice* condition in Washington state will fetch 10k. Most ones in good condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA). Most people on this list are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't buy one at those crazy eBay prices. FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200. I've since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in. http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/ John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
carbucks wrote: So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz. Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it? Old Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take care of everything. There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain. That being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality and drivability of an MB over a VW! If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club. There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit of good information there as well. www.tdiclub.com HTH! John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
You might want to figure in to your equation that you can get early 90's E320 gas wagons in pristine condition for ~$2k. They will have all wheel drive too. They take premium. -Dave Walton On Feb 13, 2008 2:16 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, John. Nice looking TD. Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year. For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI ($mid-teens) which according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42 mpg and costs $1407 per year. So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz. Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-) Martin John Robbins wrote: carbucks wrote: While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. Here's what I've discovered so far. There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is very sought after... so prices are all over the place. One in *nice* condition in Washington state will fetch 10k. Most ones in good condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA). Most people on this list are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't buy one at those crazy eBay prices. FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200. I've since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in. http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/ John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Thanks, John. Nice looking TD. Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year. For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI ($mid-teens) which according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42 mpg and costs $1407 per year. So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz. Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-) Martin John Robbins wrote: carbucks wrote: While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. Here's what I've discovered so far. There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is very sought after... so prices are all over the place. One in *nice* condition in Washington state will fetch 10k. Most ones in good condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA). Most people on this list are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't buy one at those crazy eBay prices. FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200. I've since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in. http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/ John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
There is also a Passat wagon which would be a bit bigger than the Jetta. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of dave walton Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:45 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from hell. I much prefer working on Mercedes. You need a computer just to check the transmission fluid level. The VW's are very light and tinny in my opinion. Although with 6 air bags they might have a safety advantage depending on the circumstances. -Dave Walton On Feb 13, 2008 2:40 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do my own. Have two 300SDs. What I'm finding is they are taking up more and more of my time. I've had both VWs and Mercedes as well as BMWs. They share a number of qualities. The VWs are less expensive to maintain and very few get close to their mpg. Martin John Robbins wrote: Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it? Old Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take care of everything. There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain. That being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality and drivability of an MB over a VW! If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club. There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit of good information there as well. www.tdiclub.com HTH! John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from hell. I much prefer working on Mercedes. You need a computer just to check the transmission fluid level. The VW's are very light and tinny in my opinion. Although with 6 air bags they might have a safety advantage depending on the circumstances. -Dave Walton On Feb 13, 2008 2:40 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do my own. Have two 300SDs. What I'm finding is they are taking up more and more of my time. I've had both VWs and Mercedes as well as BMWs. They share a number of qualities. The VWs are less expensive to maintain and very few get close to their mpg. Martin John Robbins wrote: Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it? Old Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take care of everything. There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain. That being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality and drivability of an MB over a VW! If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club. There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit of good information there as well. www.tdiclub.com HTH! John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
On Feb 13, 2008 11:33 AM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good point. They get similar fuel mileage to the older diesels and have better performance. The 300SDs are fine on the highway, but have trouble keeping up with some city traffic. Martin, have you driven an early-'90s diesel Jetta wagon? Based on my experience with a 2001 New Beetle TDI I'd say the opposite would be true of them, for what it's worth---they are great city cars with plenty of zip right off the line (mostly due to the variable-displacement turbo, I think), but run out of steam fast on the highway. Also, as John R. pointed out, the driveability and feel are quite different. I would much rather take my W124 on a long trip than any VW---the seats are better and road noise is less despite 20-year-old door seals! Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Good point. They get similar fuel mileage to the older diesels and have better performance. The 300SDs are fine on the highway, but have trouble keeping up with some city traffic. Martin dave walton wrote: You might want to figure in to your equation that you can get early 90's E320 gas wagons in pristine condition for ~$2k. They will have all wheel drive too. They take premium. -Dave Walton On Feb 13, 2008 2:16 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, John. Nice looking TD. Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year. For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI ($mid-teens) which according to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42 mpg and costs $1407 per year. So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz. Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-) Martin John Robbins wrote: carbucks wrote: While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. Here's what I've discovered so far. There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is very sought after... so prices are all over the place. One in *nice* condition in Washington state will fetch 10k. Most ones in good condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA). Most people on this list are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't buy one at those crazy eBay prices. FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200. I've since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in. http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/ John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
I do my own. Have two 300SDs. What I'm finding is they are taking up more and more of my time. I've had both VWs and Mercedes as well as BMWs. They share a number of qualities. The VWs are less expensive to maintain and very few get close to their mpg. Martin John Robbins wrote: Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it? Old Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take care of everything. There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain. That being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality and drivability of an MB over a VW! If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club. There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit of good information there as well. www.tdiclub.com HTH! John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
On Feb 13, 2008 11:45 AM, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from hell. Wouldn't that be true of any kind of drivetrain work on a front-wheel-drive car, though? Everything's all jammed up together under the hood, after all, not nicely spread out front-to-back as it should be. What was especially bad about the VW? (I ask never having done or even contemplated any serious repair job on a FWD car, other than my old Saab 900's which are quite a different beast than the typical transverse-four-with-transaxle arrangement.) Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Lack of space. I finally found a use for those stubby drivers that have been sitting in my toolbox unused. The 4Matic MB has much more space, but it is just bigger all around. -Dave Walton On Feb 13, 2008 3:01 PM, Alex Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 13, 2008 11:45 AM, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from hell. Wouldn't that be true of any kind of drivetrain work on a front-wheel-drive car, though? Everything's all jammed up together under the hood, after all, not nicely spread out front-to-back as it should be. What was especially bad about the VW? (I ask never having done or even contemplated any serious repair job on a FWD car, other than my old Saab 900's which are quite a different beast than the typical transverse-four-with-transaxle arrangement.) Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Price a set of rear SLS legs, or #22 head, or evaporator RR for the S124. My '96 Passat tdi was a rock-solid reliable, economical and fun to drive car. Much cheaper to keep than my Mercedes--damn, my Vanagon is even a helluva lot cheaper to run than the TD. I think I keep the Merc for purely sentimental reasons, at this point. On Feb 13, 2008 12:33 PM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz. The Jetta will not hold up like the Benz though Price a new Jetta injection pump. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz. The Jetta will not hold up like the Benz though Price a new Jetta injection pump. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Price a set of rear SLS legs, or #22 head, or evaporator RR for the S124. My '96 Passat tdi was a rock-solid reliable, economical and fun to drive car. Much cheaper to keep than my Mercedes--damn, my Vanagon is even a helluva lot cheaper to run than the TD. I think I keep the Merc for purely sentimental reasons, at this point. Maybe the later models are more expensive... My W123 is hands-down the cheapest car I've ever owned, in cost-of-ownership terms. I do most of my own work and buy the parts from Rusty though. I recently bought a Vanagon too, and I like it, but its engineering is cheap and amateurish compared to the W123 -- or even compared to my former W110. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 04:08:45PM -0500, Allan Streib wrote: Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Price a set of rear SLS legs, or #22 head, or evaporator RR for the S124. My '96 Passat tdi was a rock-solid reliable, economical and fun to drive car. Much cheaper to keep than my Mercedes--damn, my Vanagon is even a helluva lot cheaper to run than the TD. I think I keep the Merc for purely sentimental reasons, at this point. Maybe the later models are more expensive... My W123 is hands-down the cheapest car I've ever owned, in cost-of-ownership terms. I do most of my own work and buy the parts from Rusty though. I recently bought a Vanagon too, and I like it, but its engineering is cheap and amateurish compared to the W123 -- or even compared to my former W110. Having W123, W124, W201, and an A2 jetta, the jetta blows them all away in terms of how cheap it is to keep on the road. The W123 was a neglected car, so it's probably not a fair comparison. The W124 and S124 were far FAR more expensive than them all. No doubt, the mercedes is a better put together car, but you pay the price for it. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Having W123, W124, W201, and an A2 jetta, the jetta blows them all away in terms of how cheap it is to keep on the road. The W123 was a neglected car, so it's probably not a fair comparison. The W124 and S124 were far FAR more expensive than them all. I had an A2 Jetta as well, and agree it was pretty cheap as far as repairs and maintenance go, but I bought it new at about 4 times what I paid for my 300D, and I financed it. So that killed the cost of ownership numbers for me. I'm pretty sure a 20 year old Jetta would have cost me more than my W123 to own, they just are not built to last that long. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Hi Alex, I've had both a 2000 Jetta TDI and a 2004 Golf TDI . Much preferred the Golf. Bought it new in the east (cheaper there) and drove it across the country. In 2004 they got a bump in horsepower. That engine has about the same amount of torque as the VR6. My wife drove it 200 km a day five days a week and found it to be far more comfortable than either of my 300SDs. Plus with the five speed, you could out accelerate most vehicles away from the stop light. She still misses it. Martin Two 300SDs Missing the TDIs more and more as I write about this Alex Chamberlain wrote: On Feb 13, 2008 11:33 AM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good point. They get similar fuel mileage to the older diesels and have better performance. The 300SDs are fine on the highway, but have trouble keeping up with some city traffic. Martin, have you driven an early-'90s diesel Jetta wagon? Based on my experience with a 2001 New Beetle TDI I'd say the opposite would be true of them, for what it's worth---they are great city cars with plenty of zip right off the line (mostly due to the variable-displacement turbo, I think), but run out of steam fast on the highway. Also, as John R. pointed out, the driveability and feel are quite different. I would much rather take my W124 on a long trip than any VW---the seats are better and road noise is less despite 20-year-old door seals! Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo et al. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
Another possibility, depending on where you live, is to get one with some rust. The rust drops the value of the car GREATLY, and if you're in an area where a rusty car won't really get worse, it's fine for a driver. My 85 190D was such a car, and was really a bargain for what it was. What got expensive on that car was rebuilding the suspension on it when it got close to 200k miles, followed by a busted ball joint in the front. Granted, I did most of the work myself, but there were a LOT of parts I had to replace on it while doing the job. It was a five speed, so it was worth the time and money, or so I told myself. I do still have the two 87s, one D that got sideswiped and one rusty TD that needs a head/head gasket, that I've been toying with letting go, but unless you're somewhat near Sacramento, CA, the logistics might be a little screwy. And no, I'm not letting them go for $500 for the pair (or even $500 each), so all you bottomfeeders out there, don't try. ;) On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:16:42AM -0800, carbucks wrote: So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz. Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
That's why I'm looking at a Jetta wagon TDI that's a few years old. The largest part of the depreciation is gone and it will be good for another ten years or so. By that time I'll have saved enough on fuel (over the Benz) to buy another one. I have an '82 Jetta that I bought brand new. At 300k+ the body and original engine are still good, though I had to replace the head at 80K because I burned the valves following the idiot upshift light (remember those?) . However, it was the electrics that consigned it to a moldering death in my yard. The electrics did get better in 83. I have an 83 Jetta Turbo diesel that still going strong. Martin Allan Streib wrote: Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Having W123, W124, W201, and an A2 jetta, the jetta blows them all away in terms of how cheap it is to keep on the road. The W123 was a neglected car, so it's probably not a fair comparison. The W124 and S124 were far FAR more expensive than them all. I had an A2 Jetta as well, and agree it was pretty cheap as far as repairs and maintenance go, but I bought it new at about 4 times what I paid for my 300D, and I financed it. So that killed the cost of ownership numbers for me. I'm pretty sure a 20 year old Jetta would have cost me more than my W123 to own, they just are not built to last that long. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
