[RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[Philip Williamson]

Am I the only one who snickered to himself when he saw the title 
"belliesandbutts.pdf?"
I am, aren't I?

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[jimD]

Sure, that's one way to go about it. 

Me, I'm not much of an amateur bike designer.
I'm not so much interested in picking the tubes as having the person that 
designs the bike 
making such determinations.

When I got my Riv custom I had a conversation with Grant about my riding. He 
took care of the design.
He's the 'pro from Dover' when it comes to Rivendell bikes. 
My Riv custom is the best bike I've ever ridden.

Richard Sachs has been known to use the term 'gestalt' in regards to bike 
designs. I enjoy hearing all the discussions
about 'feeds and speeds' but compared to the folks who make their living making 
these things I'm a babe in the woods.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

-JImD


On Sep 7, 2012, at 9:03 PM, Michael_S wrote:

> I think it helps you pick the bike that you want. Touring, the Atlantis has 
> thicker tubes, fast road... the Roadeo has thinner tubes... Bomber trail 
> bike... the Bombadil has the thickest.   You factor in your body weight, what 
> you want to carry and pick the bike that meets those needs. Diameter and wall 
> thickness still matter... it's the other stuff that is less important. 
> Although heat treating is important on thin tubes... on the rest it is 
> inconsequential. 
> 
> As most metallurgist's will tell you it's usually joints and manufacturing 
> flaws that fail, not the parent material if it is designed correctly. 
> 
> ~mike
> Carlsbad Ca.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[Peter Morgano]

I have luckily never had a failure on a bike but  I have to say the bike i
pushed to the max was a Nishiki Cresta that between me and my daughter and
some stuff weighed in at over 300lbs. Cant say it rode like a dream but it
did open my eyes that many bikes back in the day that were billed for
"touring" were really just sport touring bikes that could not handle a load
like that. My bombadil rides comfortably with alot more weight than that,
which I have to put to tubing mix so you are right that it makes a
difference but  I trust Grant when he says "heavy duty" for bombadil or
"light tourer" for the San Marcos so I dont need to know the exact stats
for each tube. Now I just wish my did didnt get me sick so I could ride,
damn first week of school, every year!

On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Michael_S wrote:

> I think it helps you pick the bike that you want. Touring, the Atlantis
> has thicker tubes, fast road... the Roadeo has thinner tubes... Bomber
> trail bike... the Bombadil has the thickest.   You factor in your body
> weight, what you want to carry and pick the bike that meets those needs.
> Diameter and wall thickness still matter... it's the other stuff that is
> less important. Although heat treating is important on thin tubes... on the
> rest it is inconsequential.
>
> As most metallurgist's will tell you it's usually joints
> and manufacturing flaws that fail, not the parent material if it is
> designed correctly.
>
> ~mike
> Carlsbad Ca.
>
>
> On Saturday, September 1, 2012 9:02:24 AM UTC-7, MikeC wrote:
>
>> The website is vague regarding tubing thicknesses used. Does anyone know
>> the exact dimensions? Just interested in data to compare my Hillborne with
>> other bikes that I have.
>>
>> Please don't reply with, "Doesn't matter, they all ride great" or
>> somesuch
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Mike
>>
>> SW Ohio
>>
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[RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[Michael_S]

I think it helps you pick the bike that you want. Touring, the Atlantis has 
thicker tubes, fast road... the Roadeo has thinner tubes... Bomber trail 
bike... the Bombadil has the thickest.   You factor in your body weight, 
what you want to carry and pick the bike that meets those needs. Diameter 
and wall thickness still matter... it's the other stuff that is less 
important. Although heat treating is important on thin tubes... on the rest 
it is inconsequential. 

As most metallurgist's will tell you it's usually joints 
and manufacturing flaws that fail, not the parent material if it is 
designed correctly. 

~mike
Carlsbad Ca.

On Saturday, September 1, 2012 9:02:24 AM UTC-7, MikeC wrote:
>
> The website is vague regarding tubing thicknesses used. Does anyone know 
> the exact dimensions? Just interested in data to compare my Hillborne with 
> other bikes that I have.
>  
> Please don't reply with, "Doesn't matter, they all ride great" or 
> somesuch
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> -Mike
>  
> SW Ohio
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[Peter Morgano]

Very true, outside of full custom status the tubing mix means litltle
outside of coffee talk with our friends.  I love my bombadil, and I loved
my 531 bikes but I find I can ride the bombadil without worrying about
flexing it to the max under my generous body while still getting a "lively"
ride.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 11:28 PM, dougP  wrote:

> As both BG & GP point out, the art of design has been fine tuned over
> decades.  The recognizable names making steel frames today have
> probably thousands of frames each in their experience.  They know what
> they're doing.  Spend your time on the fun stuff like picking out the
> ideal parts for your own bike.
>
> A question just occurred to me:  So you get all this info about tubing
> diameters, thicknesses, strengths, etc.  What do you do with it?  It's
> not really info you can act upon.  Grant's e-mail puts it into
> perspective.  With 37 years experience, he got fresh input from an
> ironworker.
>
> dougP
>
> On Sep 7, 5:02 pm, Leslie  wrote:
> > AND, there ya go   Straight from Grant  Cool!
> >
> > (I'm assuming everyone gets the RBW emails?)
> >
> > -L
>
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[RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[dougP]

As both BG & GP point out, the art of design has been fine tuned over
decades.  The recognizable names making steel frames today have
probably thousands of frames each in their experience.  They know what
they're doing.  Spend your time on the fun stuff like picking out the
ideal parts for your own bike.

A question just occurred to me:  So you get all this info about tubing
diameters, thicknesses, strengths, etc.  What do you do with it?  It's
not really info you can act upon.  Grant's e-mail puts it into
perspective.  With 37 years experience, he got fresh input from an
ironworker.

dougP

On Sep 7, 5:02 pm, Leslie  wrote:
> AND, there ya go   Straight from Grant  Cool!
>
> (I'm assuming everyone gets the RBW emails?)
>
> -L

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[ian connelly]

Everyone who likes (vintage articles about) lugged steel frames and debates 
about tubing diameter should read this 1987 article linked via Bruce Gordon 
(who made both the bikes in the best):

http://www.bgcycles.com/frame-tubing-selection.html

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[RBW] Re: Green Sam in Grand Marais!

[Liesl]

Jim, glad you know all the riv's here!

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[RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[ted]

I have a heretical theory. Thin tires are plush, if you run em soft
that is.
It seems to me that at equal pressure fatter tires ride harder than
skinnier ones.
For example, when I was riding 22c tubulars at 55 or 60 psi going up
the ridge in the local open space they were quite cushy (it takes a
lot to pinch flat a tubular).
One reason to go to a wider tire is to stop getting pinch flats when
inflating to comfortable pressures. But when you do you will need to
go to even lower pressure to get the softness you had. If you go wide
enough you get away from the pinch flats even with the reduced
pressure. Seems like the pinch flat relief gain is bigger than the
hard ride penalty, but you do end up at much lower pressure (eg 20-25
psi in 50c Quasi-Motos vs 55-60 in 22c conti-gatorskin)
Given all that I think that how wide is wide enough depends on how
much weight is on the tire. Lighter riders (not loaded touring) can be
perfectly comfy on thiner tires than heavy folks without getting pinch
flats.

Of course there are other features of fatter tires, but for ride
quality I don't buy it being as simple as fat is comfy.

On Sep 7, 5:35 pm, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:
> I am curious, Grant: I ride scandalously narrow tires on my two small wheel
> customs and yet I find that they are surprisingly plush over smaller bumps
> (6" expansion cracks are another matter). 44 1/2 cm chainstays. Is it the
> chainstays that makes such otherwise nasty tires tolerable? ("Nasty" is
> self-defensive rhetoric; I like the way the new 650C X 23 Michelin Pro Race
> 3s climb. Must be the "Pro" and the "Race".)
>
> Other news: my erstwhile '73 Motobecane Grand Record frameset, now gone to
> a better owner, was noticeably lighter than the two Rivs. Yet it handled
> rear loads better. Also 44-45 cm chainstays. Why is this? Not complaining
> but I could carry 35 lb on the rear of the Motobecane without any real
> wagging, while the '03 Curt with that much is much more of a handful
>
> Noticed today that Jan says (or implies: I think I am paraphrasing
> correctly) that even OS tubed frames can "plane" if the dt is thicker than
> TT and ST. For what *that's* worth.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Leslie  wrote:
> > AND, there ya go   Straight from Grant  Cool!
>
> > (I'm assuming everyone gets the RBW emails?)
>
> > -L
>
> > --
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> --
> "Believe nothing until it has been officially denied."
>                                                    -- Claude Cockburn
>
> -
> Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, 
> ACRWhttp://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> -

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Garth]

Do Riv and "budget price" go together ? lol  !I too have followed Riv 
since just before the Atlantis came out for a whopping $950.  The Bombadil 
was what ... about $14-1500 when introduced ?Point being ... even if 
they could meet a price point ... for numerous reasons they don't stay 
there long .   This is no knock on them ... it's obviously hard to keep 
prices steady for long.   I'm glad to own a Bombadil and I anticipate 
another :)   

Doesn't money grow on trees ?   It does for those who don't look for it 
from trees !   ;)

>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Leslie]

Oh!  The old Nitto RM-14 is now the RM-13; the new RM-14 is a 31.8 handlebar; 
the Ragley Luxy is another 31.8.  I liked them, but there were SO few 31.8 
quill stems out there, and they weren't pretty... I really wanted a Nitto 
Dirt-Drop stem in 31.8, no such thing... Went w/the 26, which lets me use 26 or 
25.4 bars ( the latter shimmed)... 

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[RBW] Rivs by city

[Leslie]

In Kingsport, I've only seen one other Riv, a green Quickbeam, was heading the 
other way on our local bike path.

Nearby, in Bristol, on another bike path, saw an AHH, again headed the other 
way, didn't get to speak to...

in Abingdon, on the Creeper, saw a gal on a blue Ram, got off a 'nice bike', 
which she called out 'you, too' (was on my green Ram).

In each of these cases, I've learned they were all associated w/ MSL, a Riv 
dealer in Bristol.

I've had a couple of folks on the Creeper notice my bike, and other gentleman 
(on older retIred bike-shop guy in search of a Bridgestone) was really excited 
to see my bike. 

But, thats all I've seen, or have noticed.  (well, save for when Grant was at 
MSL, and a lot of us convened for a ride...)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[PATRICK MOORE]

This attitude seems a bit too whimsical to me. I agree with Grant that the
minutiae of tubing thicknesses, tensile strengths and butt lengths mean
little apart from the context of the whole frame and its user, but after
all, Grant doesn't build his frames out of just anything.

Patrick "resolutely punctuating in the old style, too" Moore

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Garth  wrote:

>
> What makes all this talk of tubes and what does to what to what
> meaningless is that no two people are the same !  Not only are bodies
> different... but our perceptions and feel for what we wish to experience
> are vastly different.  So in making a frame ... the one designing it has to
> go with their own instincts... their own passion  Passion rubs off.  If
> people see someone having a good time on frame ... they'll want one too.
>  If they don't ... they won't !   If you cannot please yourself  you're
> pleasing no one :)
>
> Isn't that what's all about ... having fun ?  :)
>
> Having said that ... I guess you can even have fun talking about things
> like tubes even though no one "really" knows what the other means !  lol
> hahahaahaha !  ... and hey ... to me that IS fun !!!
>
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-- 
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   -- Claude Cockburn

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[Garth]

What makes all this talk of tubes and what does to what to what meaningless 
is that no two people are the same !  Not only are bodies different... but 
our perceptions and feel for what we wish to experience are vastly 
different.  So in making a frame ... the one designing it has to go with 
their own instincts... their own passion  Passion rubs off.  If people see 
someone having a good time on frame ... they'll want one too.  If they 
don't ... they won't !   If you cannot please yourself  you're pleasing 
no one :)

Isn't that what's all about ... having fun ?  :) 

Having said that ... I guess you can even have fun talking about things 
like tubes even though no one "really" knows what the other means !  lol   
hahahaahaha !  ... and hey ... to me that IS fun !!!   

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[RBW] What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Leslie]

My original plan for my Bomba was wavering between either a Bullmoose, or a 
dirt-drop stem with an off-road dirt drop bar (Woodchippers, Midge, original 
RM2, etc.).  While awaiting my frame, I'd whittled through the list, narrowing 
it down to wanting an RM2, but having a time getting ahold of one ( outbid on 
auctions, some wanting to sell then not, etc); so I started leaning towards the 
Bullmoose more, but was still wanting the dirt drops.  

But started really thinking about what I liked about my Noodles on the Ram, 
what was it I was wanting in dirt drops (flare), and finally noticed that the 
Moustache Bars were kinda like a dirt drop bar, flattened on out.  And, came 
across a steel of a deal on some genuine Nitto ones (was a 25.4 instead of a 
26; a shim didn't bother me); that way, if I decided I didn't like them, I 
could still use the stem w/ some dirt-drops (compounding this was the 
discontinuing of the regular Bullmoose, too). 

So, frame/wheels/stem arrive, I build it up w/ the 'stache... Set about as high 
as the saddle, angled down (like the drops on a Noodle), levers about as far 
out as the go, on the apex of the forward bends, level to the deck.

I like them. Better than I expected, actually.   I really expected to not be as 
keen on them, that they were my temporary placeholder.  They are GREAT on 
downhill descents, fine for climbing, comfortable for tooling around town. 

However...  I'm starting to find a limit.  Shorter rides, never think about 
'em.  Up to 10-mile-long trips, not a problem.  But, when I'm getting up past 
15, approaching a 20-mile jaunt, my hands are starting to let me know.  

I'm thinking, maybe try them a little higher, will keep playing w/ them; but, 
I'm not yet positive about them if I was to do another metric, or a longer 
tour, etc.  I still want to find some RM2 bars to try, if I can find the right 
ones tat I want, for a believable price...

IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada

-L

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[RBW] Re: WTB Surly Nice Front Rack

[Scot Brooks]

Thanks for the fast response, Jim. I totally forgot to mention that I'd like 
silver (so I can satisfy my need for aesthetic continuity and all that). 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[Peter Morgano]

Oh God, not another "Planing" discussion, argh!

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:35 PM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:

> I am curious, Grant: I ride scandalously narrow tires on my two small
> wheel customs and yet I find that they are surprisingly plush over smaller
> bumps (6" expansion cracks are another matter). 44 1/2 cm chainstays. Is it
> the chainstays that makes such otherwise nasty tires tolerable? ("Nasty" is
> self-defensive rhetoric; I like the way the new 650C X 23 Michelin Pro Race
> 3s climb. Must be the "Pro" and the "Race".)
>
> Other news: my erstwhile '73 Motobecane Grand Record frameset, now gone to
> a better owner, was noticeably lighter than the two Rivs. Yet it handled
> rear loads better. Also 44-45 cm chainstays. Why is this? Not complaining
> but I could carry 35 lb on the rear of the Motobecane without any real
> wagging, while the '03 Curt with that much is much more of a handful
>
> Noticed today that Jan says (or implies: I think I am paraphrasing
> correctly) that even OS tubed frames can "plane" if the dt is thicker than
> TT and ST. For what *that's* worth.
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Leslie  wrote:
>
>> AND, there ya go   Straight from Grant  Cool!
>>
>> (I'm assuming everyone gets the RBW emails?)
>>
>> -L
>>
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>
>
> --
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>-- Claude Cockburn
>
> -
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[PATRICK MOORE]

I am curious, Grant: I ride scandalously narrow tires on my two small wheel
customs and yet I find that they are surprisingly plush over smaller bumps
(6" expansion cracks are another matter). 44 1/2 cm chainstays. Is it the
chainstays that makes such otherwise nasty tires tolerable? ("Nasty" is
self-defensive rhetoric; I like the way the new 650C X 23 Michelin Pro Race
3s climb. Must be the "Pro" and the "Race".)

Other news: my erstwhile '73 Motobecane Grand Record frameset, now gone to
a better owner, was noticeably lighter than the two Rivs. Yet it handled
rear loads better. Also 44-45 cm chainstays. Why is this? Not complaining
but I could carry 35 lb on the rear of the Motobecane without any real
wagging, while the '03 Curt with that much is much more of a handful

Noticed today that Jan says (or implies: I think I am paraphrasing
correctly) that even OS tubed frames can "plane" if the dt is thicker than
TT and ST. For what *that's* worth.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Leslie  wrote:

> AND, there ya go   Straight from Grant  Cool!
>
> (I'm assuming everyone gets the RBW emails?)
>
> -L
>
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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Bill M.]

After years of trying M-bars off and on without real success, I finally 
sold them.  I was never totally comfortable on them, I think mostly due to 
the lack of a position like the tops of a drop bar.  The best setup for me 
was quite high, on a bike with too short a top tube so they were very 
close.  They made a bike that was too small somewhat ridable, in the way 
that albatross bars can make a too-long frame ridable.  Still, I never 
found them to be preferable to a proper fit with a drop bar.

These days I'm running various flavors of short reach, shallow drop bars 
(3T Ergosum, SOMA Hwy 1, Salsa Cowbell) and find all of them preferable to 
the moustache.

Bill
Stockton, CA

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:32:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
> Tilted? 
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>

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[RBW] Re: Tubing Thicknesses on Rivs

[Leslie]

AND, there ya go   Straight from Grant  Cool!

(I'm assuming everyone gets the RBW emails?)

-L

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[RBW] Re: Green Sam in Grand Marais!

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Somebody who works at Seward Co-op has a bike that fits that description. 
Maybe that person is vacationing up north? It's not Eric.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 6:24:45 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote:
>
> Lovely double-tuber, alba's and cork, front basket atop a nitto What a 
> pleasant sight to see! Is it you, Eric or is someone else up here on lake 
> superior We're the ones wandering about with 2 gray standard poodles.
>
> Sorry to everyone else about posting all these Minnesota autumns, but it's 
> so delightful to come across riv's in the wild!
>
> Liesl
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB Surly Nice Front Rack

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I have a black one that I bought by mistake. It's new (attempted install, 
before I realized my error, but never used it). I'd sell it for $90 shipped.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 6:03:05 PM UTC-5, Scot Brooks wrote:
>
> If anyone's considering getting rid of one, I'm your man. I have the rear 
> already and I'm going to see if I can make my Sam heavy and dense enough to 
> start pulling small objects into a gravitational orbit around it. 

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Rohloff conversion. Anyone done it?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I have a Rohloff on my Surly Disc Trucker. The q/r version of the hub comes 
with a very nice chain tensioner. the Disc Trucker dropout is Rohloff OEM2 
compatible, which makes it easy and elegant. With the Atlantis, you'd need 
to use the chainstay-clamped torque arm thing, which is less easy, and less 
elegant. IMO, the Atlantis is not an ideal candidate for Rohloff, but of 
course it can work. As for the Rohloff itself, I think it's wonderful.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 7:18:27 AM UTC-5, geosat wrote:
>
> Can't find a thread for this but I know I've seen multiple pix of 
> Atlanti with Rohloffs on them. How did you deal with the vertical 
> dropout issue? I think it would be a cool set up. 
>
> Don't tell Grant please! 
>

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[RBW] Green Sam in Grand Marais!

[Liesl]

Lovely double-tuber, alba's and cork, front basket atop a nitto What a pleasant 
sight to see! Is it you, Eric or is someone else up here on lake superior 
We're the ones wandering about with 2 gray standard poodles.

Sorry to everyone else about posting all these Minnesota autumns, but it's so 
delightful to come across riv's in the wild!

Liesl

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[RBW] WTB Surly Nice Front Rack

[Scot Brooks]

If anyone's considering getting rid of one, I'm your man. I have the rear 
already and I'm going to see if I can make my Sam heavy and dense enough to 
start pulling small objects into a gravitational orbit around it. 

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Re: [RBW] Atlantis Rohloff conversion. Anyone done it?

[Peter Morgano]

I have an alfine rigged bombadil. I just use a tensioner, also alfine. It's
a nice setup, with a bar end shifter but I think the rohlhoff only has a
twist. Just be ready for the haters to tell you that you are fool hardy for
not using regular shifters and drive train. My setup needs little
adjustment and can be serviced with hand tools.
On Sep 7, 2012 5:52 PM, "geosat"  wrote:

> Can't find a thread for this but I know I've seen multiple pix of
> Atlanti with Rohloffs on them. How did you deal with the vertical
> dropout issue? I think it would be a cool set up.
>
> Don't tell Grant please!
>
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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Bryan]

When I lived in Wisconsin, I loved them for riding in cold weather and 
snow. Getting my hands around the brakes on drop bars was too sketchy in 
big puffy mittens. Moustache bars totally solved that problem and provided 
extra leverage for getting through the slop. Now living back in California, 
my moustache bars are sitting bike-less in my garage while the Noodles get 
all the attention. Guess I need a new bike to hold them.  

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:32:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
> Tilted? 
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>

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Re: [RBW] FS: 60cm Quickbeam.

[Lyle Bogart]

That's a fine looking frame. . . lucky for me it's just a tad too small

On 6 September 2012 20:02, tragicallyaverage  wrote:

> FS: 60cm Quickbeam.
>
> First generation green version with cantilever brakes. I'm 6'3", around a
> 93cm pbh and this is too small for me. It's been ridden, has small nicks,
> nothing concerning but should be mentioned.
>
>
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-- 
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd
wiscasset, me 04578
207.882.6494
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivs by city

[Lyle Bogart]

I've seen exactly two Rivs here in midcoast Maine. . . the Good and the Bad
of it is that one is my Atlantis and the second is my wife's Betty!

On 7 September 2012 12:03, mike  wrote:

>
> I have seen another Riv in Boulder only once and Boulder has a pretty
> active bicycle culture.   On a path I passed a woman riding an Atlantis,
> then immediately slowed down to look at her bike.  A guy at the shop where
> I take my car has an Yves Gomez but I've never seen the bike, my SimpleOne
> caught his eye when I dropped off the car one day.
>
> I know Rivs around, or at least think they are.  I see some references to
> Boulder in this group.
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[PATRICK MOORE]

57 here, and certainly not as spry as I was 10 years ago. I've tried M-bars
many times on many different bikes, with positions ranging from high and
close to one similar to a lowish hoods position (on the M-bar's hoods), and
I've tried them angled down and flat. I have really wanted to like them --
have even toyed briefly recently with the idea of trying them again on the
Fargo -- but I can never be comfortable on them for more than a few miles:
they hurt my left palm. But the most comfortable position (tho' this was 15
years ago) was at the same (below-saddle) height as my drops with a similar
(~8 cm) stem, with the ends parallel to the earth and riding them mostly on
the hoods with levers placed a la Grant's instructions back in the B-stone
days: ie, close. I commuted on this setup for a year or so, ~10 miles each
way.The problem with *that* was that there was no "sit up and relax"
postion like the flats on a drop bar, tho' holding on by my finger tips to
the ends of the bars while climbing did help a bit.

Overall, I just can't make them work.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Mattt  wrote:

>
>
> I keep my moustache bars parallel to the ground.  I like my bars a little
> lower than the "standard."  If I tilt them back, I have to reach down too
> low.  It works for me.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: First-time bicycle assembly advice

[Michael Richters]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Zack  wrote:
> i could be wrong, but i don't think that Riv framesaves frames if you don't
> get a complete bike - i think i read that they don't do it because the
> framesaver leaks all over the bike packing stuff.

It's been a while since I ordered the frame, but I'm pretty sure I
asked about this, and that's what they said.  Nevertheless, I have a
can of Boeshield somewhere, and intend to use it before I get started
on assembly.

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[RBW] Atlantis Rohloff conversion. Anyone done it?

[geosat]

Can't find a thread for this but I know I've seen multiple pix of
Atlanti with Rohloffs on them. How did you deal with the vertical
dropout issue? I think it would be a cool set up.

Don't tell Grant please!

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[RBW] Re: Beautiful Japanese bicycle prints. Anyone read Japanese?

[Christian]

Thanks for looking!  They are quite something, aren't they?

Christian 

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:21:36 PM UTC-4, blakcloud wrote:
>
> My wife is Japanese and had a quick look at the website and couldn't find 
> anywhere where you could purchase any prints. She liked the cyclist gallery 
> where they had cyclist from every season, spring, summer, fall and winter. 
> Hope that helps. 
>
>
>  Christian wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone 
>>
>> (Apologies for cross-posting; I sent this to i-Bob also.) 
>>
>> I have recently come across these bicycle themed prints from the artist 
>> Yuziriha Satoshi.
>> http://www.yuzuriha.com/css/pages/gallery_folder/gallery2.html I wonder 
>> if anyone reads Japanese and can tell me if they're available for 
>> purchase?  If not, I am sure people will enjoy looking at them anyway.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Christian
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sackville Grid Gray question

[HighCountry]

I too thought my Large Sackville rear bag lacked structure... so I simply 
created a lightweight poster-board inner box for it.
I lost almost no capacity, and I kept it just small enough to allow the bag 
to look "normal", while still not collapsing into a non-rectangle.
Many miles on it now, and don't think about changing it.

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:50:17 PM UTC-7, Amit Singh wrote:

> And when you find out post the answer here.
>
> On Tuesday, 4 September 2012 21:45:23 UTC-4, Joe K wrote:
>>
>> I frankly don't know, though I have a grid gray bag as well.  It's not 
>> canvas, so I wouldn't assume you can use a canvas wax...I'd suggest 
>> you call and ask someone at Rivendell directly. 
>>
>> On Sep 4, 11:43 am, bulldog1935  wrote: 
>> > is it OK to use a canvas wax like an Otter's wax bar on the Sackville 
>> Grid 
>> > gray. 
>> > I was hoping to stiffen the fabric a bit and, of course, weatherproof 
>> it. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Beautiful Japanese bicycle prints. Anyone read Japanese?

[Robert Barr]

I showed the page to one of the staff members of the weekend Japanese
School that is housed at my daughter's school and her quick assessment was
similar to blakcloud's wife. She said the site read like a personal blog
illustrated with  seasonal images. There is a linked essay on the page but
I didn't want to presume and ask her to read enough to tell me what it was
about. I wonder if it the personal site of one of the many passionate
Japanese fans of the classic French randonneur tradition. Lovely images. Bob
* *

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 10:21 PM, blakcloud  wrote:

> My wife is Japanese and had a quick look at the website and couldn't find
> anywhere where you could purchase any prints. She liked the cyclist gallery
> where they had cyclist from every season, spring, summer, fall and winter.
> Hope that helps.
>
>
>  Christian wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone
>>
>> (Apologies for cross-posting; I sent this to i-Bob also.)
>>
>> I have recently come across these bicycle themed prints from the artist
>> Yuziriha Satoshi.http://www.yuzuriha.com/css/**
>> pages/gallery_folder/gallery2.**htmlI
>>  wonder if anyone reads Japanese and can tell me if they're available for
>> purchase?  If not, I am sure people will enjoy looking at them anyway.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Christian
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: First-time bicycle assembly advice

[Michael Richters]

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Jim Mather  wrote:
> RBW chases/faces the BB and framesaves it before they send it out, so don't
> worry about those steps.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Bill  wrote:
>> the very first step is to have the bb shell faced & chased as well as
>> headtube faced. while you're at it, have insides framesaved and headset
>> installed. Just take the frame to a bike shop or bike co-op. you can do the
>> rest.

I was wondering about this, since it's basically the only thing I have
no tools for (and wouldn't seriously consider buying myself).  Since
the headset is already installed (by Rivendell) and I was planning on
leaving it that way, unless some sort of problem develops, I was
mostly concerned about the bottom bracket shell.  If RBW has done it
already, I'm certainly willing to trust them to do a better job of it
than anybody near home, so I guess I'll just assume it's good, and
only get it chased after I accidentally cross-thread the bottom
bracket.

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[RBW] Re: Sackville Grid Gray question

[kps]

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:43:03 AM UTC-5, bulldog1935 wrote:
>
> is it OK to use a canvas wax like an Otter's wax bar on the Sackville Grid 
> gray.  
> I was hoping to stiffen the fabric a bit and, of course, weatherproof it.  
>

I don't know if you see the Kaufmann Mercantile site, but their latest blog 
posting mentions a wax that is good for fabrics including nylon shells.  
perhaps it would work on the Sackville Grid Grey?
here's the link:  *http://tinyurl.com/9r4lkzm
*kps

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[RBW] Re: Rivs by city

[mike]

I have seen another Riv in Boulder only once and Boulder has a pretty 
active bicycle culture.   On a path I passed a woman riding an Atlantis, 
then immediately slowed down to look at her bike.  A guy at the shop where 
I take my car has an Yves Gomez but I've never seen the bike, my SimpleOne 
caught his eye when I dropped off the car one day.

I know Rivs around, or at least think they are.  I see some references to 
Boulder in this group.

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Mattt]

I keep my moustache bars parallel to the ground.  I like my bars a little 
lower than the "standard."  If I tilt them back, I have to reach down too 
low.  It works for me.

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[bulldog1935]

I think us old guys (55 - not too) find a tall quill and moustache bar to 
be a second and third wind in cycling.  There are a lot of factors that 
affect cervical strain, but the biggest is that we lean on the bar now 
rather than pull on it like we did when we were younger.  
I have a Technomic extended to the full 160mm, which puts it about 10mm 
higher than the nose of my saddle.  The inner bend on my bar continues at 
the same angle as the stem, which is just slightly down.  The outer bends 
then gradually fall away.  This gives me 5 or 6 cozy positions around the 
bar length and the greatest stretch, holding the brake hoods, is aero and 
comfortable enough for a century ride.  

Been riding with a buddy since college, who had pretty much quit because of 
the cervical strain.  But my bike has inspired a rebuild of his Mercier and 
he's following through with a similar rebuild of his tandem.  On his 
Mercier, he went with the Nitto lugged stem, which is striking, but still 
shorter than his seat by a couple of centimeters.  He put a big uphill tilt 
on his moustache bars.  This did two things - made his Dura Ace ergo brake 
levers totally ergo with 3 different braking positions (he had to switch 
L/R levers, but it is great).  The second thing is it gave him a very low 
aero position on the outside bends.  

On Friday, September 7, 2012 12:32:35 AM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
> Tilted? 
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>

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[RBW] WTT: Banana Bag + Lezyne Pressure Drive for Carradice Junior

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've sold or traded off some four or five Juniors in my day, so shame on
me, since of course I want another one.

The BB is not the original Rivendell model and may be made by someone else,
for it is made from slightly thinner canvas with thinner leather. But it is
very well made and looks very nice and is in good condition. The L PD is as
new except that I tossed the annoying little slip-on rubber hose-hole plug
that it originally had.

The L PD works better than any true (= fits into small saddlebag) minipump
thanks to the hose, and there is nothing wrong with it, but given how
frequently I have to pump en route, it's not the pump for me. (I do use the
fatter model with the Fargo because, despite the pump boss under the top
tube, there is really no place to fit a frame pump, and because getting the
Big Apples to 20 psi is no big deal even with a mini pump.

-- 
"Believe nothing until it has been officially denied."
   -- Claude Cockburn

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Agreed. I would love to see a Riv exclusive Nitto stem with a pop-top. I
have a few cheaper ones on my round town bikes and they just make changing
bars/cockpit setups a dream.  The off brands of course do not have the
quality or strength of a Nitto so i don't trust them to be pulled on
with all my weight going up a 30% upgrade.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Yes, there are pluses and minuses to each.  When you want to adjust your
> handlebar height, or when you're buying a used bike, having a threadless
> stem is not an advantage.  What's a few seconds' work -- or maybe a
> replacement with a Technomic long quill stem -- with threaded is either a
> royal pain or time to buy a new fork and good luck with that with
> threadless.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dan Abelson" 
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 2:30:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?
>
>
>
> I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I
> pulled the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for
> longer than I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply
> a little extra force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue
> with threadless. Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there
> are various kludges such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on
> bikes designed for quills but for what its worth I have a preference for
> threadless and having had bikes with both have found no downside for me to
> threadless. My opinion would probably be different if I liked to change bar
> height mid ride etc.
>
> Dan Abelson
> Saint Paul, mn
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[PATRICK MOORE]

Threadless benefits are, at least for me, largely ease of installation and
setup, this last because I know where I want my bars. But there's no
question that, for fine tuning, quills are far superior. IMO, the biggest
drawback to quill stems is not the quill system but the (usually) single
bolt, non-faceplate bar clamp.

That said, if I were to choose the stem and headset system for a new bike,
I'd choose threadless because it is (fine tuning adjustments aside) simply
a more efficient design.

I have no idea if the claimed "additional stiffness and consequent steering
accuracy" -- this used to be a sales point back when threadless was just
taking over the market -- is theoretically true or just bullshit.

As for looks, VO and Riv -- and I've seen others -- prove that not all
threadless stems have to be designed to that ugly in-your-face
cheap/industrial/crude aesthetic.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Yes, there are pluses and minuses to each.  When you want to adjust your
> handlebar height, or when you're buying a used bike, having a threadless
> stem is not an advantage.  What's a few seconds' work -- or maybe a
> replacement with a Technomic long quill stem -- with threaded is either a
> royal pain or time to buy a new fork and good luck with that with
> threadless.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dan Abelson" 
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 2:30:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?
>
>
>
> I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I
> pulled the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for
> longer than I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply
> a little extra force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue
> with threadless. Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there
> are various kludges such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on
> bikes designed for quills but for what its worth I have a preference for
> threadless and having had bikes with both have found no downside for me to
> threadless. My opinion would probably be different if I liked to change bar
> height mid ride etc.
>
> Dan Abelson
> Saint Paul, mn
>
> --
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>


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   -- Claude Cockburn

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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[RBW] Epic! Sheesh!

[PATRICK MOORE]

Something of a dismal record today with flats: I fixed one in the rear just
before leaving and had five more (+5) along the way in a total of just 12
miles. Nothing stuck in the casing, no bad rim strip, no pinch flats -- all
the flats were of different kinds and in different places: first a 6 mm
split right next to the 3 mm split I'd fixed before leaving; then a large
glass-type hole; then a smaller glass-type hole; then a large thorn type
hole, then a smaller one -- again, all in different places. Very, very odd.

I've had similar very odd incidences last year with similar numbers for
gofast and trike, but those over 20+ miles, not just 12. And half of the
gofast flats were due to a misaligned rim strip. On that occasion I was
carrying a hi-pres Lezyne which, tho' the champ of true minipumps, is far,
far FAR more discouraging than a full size frame pump.

Fortunately I carry two spare tubes plus a patch kit; used up my four
remaining patches, though. GLAD!! I carried a HpX and not a minipump!

WTT: Banana Bag + VG Lezyne Pressure Drive for decent Carradice Junior. The
BB is not Riv's or, at least, it's not the original Riv model: slightly
thinner canvas and leather. But still very nice. The L PD fits easily into
the BB.

-- 
"Believe nothing until it has been officially denied."
   -- Claude Cockburn

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Steve Palincsar]

Yes, there are pluses and minuses to each.  When you want to adjust your 
handlebar height, or when you're buying a used bike, having a threadless stem 
is not an advantage.  What's a few seconds' work -- or maybe a replacement with 
a Technomic long quill stem -- with threaded is either a royal pain or time to 
buy a new fork and good luck with that with threadless.  


- Original Message -
From: "Dan Abelson" 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 2:30:16 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?



I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I pulled 
the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for longer than 
I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply a little extra 
force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue with threadless. 
Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there are various kludges 
such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on bikes designed for quills 
but for what its worth I have a preference for threadless and having had bikes 
with both have found no downside for me to threadless. My opinion would 
probably be different if I liked to change bar height mid ride etc. 

Dan Abelson 
Saint Paul, mn 

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[RBW] Re: Bleriot as a mountain bike (with bullmooseys)??

[Rick]

I had fatty rumpkins on for a while w/o fenders on the 'riot and that
was plenty good enough for me to do some trails at Tsali in NC, single
track stuff, not that I was bombing it.  In fact, it was most fun.
Dirt it up.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Joe Bunik]

On 9/7/12, Jim Mather  wrote:
> Just so everyone knows, the threadless barrier at Riv was broken by
> some but not all Legolas'. Here are a couple of examples:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695460@N00/6922766182/in/pool-legolas
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/20986098@N04/6773347072/in/pool-legolas/
>
> The Roadeo is also offered with either:
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-roadeo.htm
>

I asked Mark, and he indicated  *all* Legolai were threadless, with a
1.6mm steerer. Whether that implies Roadeo uses a thicker
(thread-able?) steerer remains unclear to me.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Dan Abelson]

31.8 would be great. I would love to try salsa cowbells on my ahh.

Dan Abelson
On Sep 7, 2012 1:26 PM, "Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery" 
wrote:

> Removable faceplate and a 31.8 mm clamp option. I'm not terribly
> interested in the 31.8 mm diameter specifically, but there are some nice
> bars out there that are only available in that size. The 26.0 handlebar
> size seems to be going away, by and large.
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:23:06 PM UTC-5, Peter Pesce wrote:
>>
>> I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make
>> a removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable
>> scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know
>> there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto
>> quality as I recall.
>>
>> -Pete in CT
>>
>> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
>>>
>>> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love
>>> but if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would
>>> offer a much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust
>>> the headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like
>>> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>>>
>>> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes
>>> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how
>>> to adjust them.
>>>
>>> Dan Abelson
>>> St Paul, MN
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Dan Abelson]

I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I
pulled the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for
longer than I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply
a little extra force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue
with threadless. Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there
are various kludges such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on
bikes designed for quills but for what its worth I have a preference for
threadless and having had bikes with both have found no downside for me to
threadless. My opinion would probably be different if I liked to change bar
height mid ride etc.

Dan Abelson
Saint Paul, mn

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Removable faceplate and a 31.8 mm clamp option. I'm not terribly interested 
in the 31.8 mm diameter specifically, but there are some nice bars out 
there that are only available in that size. The 26.0 handlebar size seems 
to be going away, by and large.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:23:06 PM UTC-5, Peter Pesce wrote:
>
> I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make a 
> removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable 
> scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know 
> there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto 
> quality as I recall.
>
> -Pete in CT
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
>>
>> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but 
>> if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
>> much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
>> headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like 
>> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>>
>> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes 
>> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how 
>> to adjust them. 
>>
>> Dan Abelson 
>> St Paul, MN
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Pesce]

I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make a 
removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable 
scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know 
there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto 
quality as I recall.

-Pete in CT

On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
>
> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but 
> if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
> much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
> headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like 
> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>
> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes 
> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how 
> to adjust them. 
>
> Dan Abelson 
> St Paul, MN
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Matthew J]

Bruce Gordon, among others, will make an open faced quill stem on request.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 12:10:18 PM UTC-5, Dan wrote:

> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but 
> if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
> much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
> headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like 
> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>
> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes 
> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how 
> to adjust them. 
>
> Dan Abelson 
> St Paul, MN
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Seth Vidal]

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
 wrote:
> The threaded-threadless converter quills are a solution to bar/stem
> compatibility issues in theory, but usually they're pretty short, which
> makes for very limited upward height adjustability. Maybe some are taller
> than others? I doubt any have a 200-ish mm quill like a taller Nitto quill
> stem, but I'm not super knowledgeable about these.
>

http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/high-rider-stem-adapter-28-622-2

That's incredibly tall.

The VO one is just normal nitto deluxe height.


-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

The threaded-threadless converter quills are a solution to bar/stem 
compatibility issues in theory, but usually they're pretty short, which 
makes for very limited upward height adjustability. Maybe some are taller 
than others? I doubt any have a 200-ish mm quill like a taller Nitto quill 
stem, but I'm not super knowledgeable about these.

More threadless bikes are coming with uncut forks now, which is nice. A lot 
of times manufacturers cut them too short, or the bike mechanic who 
assembles it cuts it too short, and then you're stuck (unless you get a new 
uncut fork or one of those extenders). But if the steerer is long enough, 
say 100-150 mm over the top of the top tube (which may be slightly 
upsloping for even more height), you've got a lot of usable room for 
adjustment of handlebar height. My Curt Goodrich custom has a smart 
approach. The headtube extends approx 45 mm above the top of the top tube, 
which upslopes slightly (but less than a Hillborne). Add another 10 or so 
mm for headset cup, and, 25-40 mm in spacers along with the stem, and I get 
the bars at or above saddle height with +/- 20 mm adjustability without the 
super tall stack of spacers that may be considered unsightly by some. It 
looks good to me, and gives me all the threadless benefits without looking 
awkward or having the bars too low.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 12:14:01 PM UTC-5, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Dan Abelson > 
> wrote: 
> > I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love 
> but if 
> > I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
> much 
> > wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
> headset, 
> > and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like being 
> able to 
> > remove the bars without unwrapping the tape. 
> > 
>
> Wider variety of handlebar choices? quill stems don't limit you there. 
>
> Get one of the nitto or VO threaded->threadless quills and then use 
> whatever you want. 
>
> Then you get selection of handlebars, poptop stems AND you can move up 
> and down as much as you want. 
>
> That's the versatility of threaded, imo. You can't do that with 
> threadless, you're just stuck. 
>
> -sv 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Mather]

Just so everyone knows, the threadless barrier at Riv was broken by
some but not all Legolas'. Here are a couple of examples:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695460@N00/6922766182/in/pool-legolas
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20986098@N04/6773347072/in/pool-legolas/

The Roadeo is also offered with either:
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-roadeo.htm

jim m
wc ca

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Dan Abelson  wrote:
> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but if
> I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a much
> wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the headset,
> and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like being able to
> remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>
> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes on
> my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how to
> adjust them.
>
> Dan Abelson
> St Paul, MN
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Seth Vidal]

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Dan Abelson  wrote:
> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but if
> I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a much
> wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the headset,
> and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like being able to
> remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>

Wider variety of handlebar choices? quill stems don't limit you there.

Get one of the nitto or VO threaded->threadless quills and then use
whatever you want.

Then you get selection of handlebars, poptop stems AND you can move up
and down as much as you want.

That's the versatility of threaded, imo. You can't do that with
threadless, you're just stuck.

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Dan Abelson]

I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but
if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a
much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the
headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like
being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.

I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes on
my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how to
adjust them.

Dan Abelson
St Paul, MN

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jeremy Till]

I agree that the product line can be somewhat confusing, but it makes sense 
if you think of it as two separate lines (lower-cost and fancy), each with 
three models varying from road-y to offroad-y:

Low cost: San Marcos-- Hillborne-- Hunqapillar
Fancy: Roadeo-- Homer-- Bombadil

And then there are two unique models which don't fit quite into either: 
Betty Foy and Atlantis, although you could argue that the Atlantis would 
slot into the fancy line-up between Homer and Bombadil.  I think it's just 
there because it's a "forever" bike that Riv would never want to stop 
production of.  

Now, it's my belief that this is the intention of the current lineup, but 
because juggling production timing can be difficult (and hence sometimes 
they even need to source the lower-cost frames from Waterford), and because 
a lot of people still opt for the good parts on the cheaper frames (has 
anybody really gone for the microshift option?), both lines end up being 
much closer in cost than was probably the original intention.  

I would agree that adding disc brakes and threadless headsets would 
instantly make Rivendells palatable to a much wider set of riders, but 
Rivendell only exists because they've been making a stand for years against 
the prevailing market trends, and part of that is not just making the bikes 
but putting in the time and effort to educate people about the choices that 
go into a Rivendell bike, and in that sense to create their own market.  
Hence the old readers, the old print catalog, the current 
bulkier-than-average copy for each and every product on the webpage, the 
Blug, and of course, Just Ride.  And why people like us sit around and 
spend hours discussing these bikes.  I say stick to their guns and continue 
the model that's brought them this far. 


On Thursday, September 6, 2012 11:39:47 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> I agree that quill stems are a niche that Riv fills, more or less 
> exclusively, which is no small thing. Obviously, the quill stem has a 
> modest-sized but loyal following, and Grant would be smart to keep filling 
> this niche, as long as it exists, all by himself.
>
> On the other hand, think about demographics. I'm 35 - most cyclists my age 
> or younger have little or no nostalgia for quill stems and threaded 
> steerers, and, in fact, may think a quill looks funny or archaic compared 
> to more familiar threadless systems. If you're over 50, then you probably 
> came of age as a cyclist in the quill stem era, and are not planning to 
> change. But if you're over 50, your bike purchases are likely to slow down 
> in the next 10-20 years, if they haven't already, while people my age and 
> younger are just ramping up the new bike spending. Obviously, this is loose 
> speculation, and individual situations vary. But I think it's safe to say 
> that the number of people who prefer quill stems, and are willing to pay 
> extra to get a frame that takes a quill stem, is shrinking, not 
> growing/stabilizing. I have no stats to back this up, just a limited view 
> from my own knothole. 
>
> Of course, Riv already makes a bunch of frame models that take a quill 
> stem. If one frame model out of eight stepped outside the lines a bit, in 
> the interest of cutting costs, making the frame sturdier without a double 
> top tube, and being more accommodating to a much wider variety of 
> contemporary stems, bars, and headsets (more versatility!), I imagine that 
> the result would be broader appeal and new customers. That particular model 
> with the (for example) disc tabs and 1-1/8" threadless steerer might not be 
> the "retro-grouch"  ideal of many on this discussion board, but there are 
> lots of other options for the purists. And there's no reason whatsoever 
> that such a frame couldn't adhere to underlying principles, like good 
> tire/fender clearance, higher handlebars (it can be done with good design 
> in a non-ugly way), and, of course, lovely lugged steel with a cool 
> paintjob.
>
> I started following Riv when there were basically two models: the heavy 
> duty Atlantis, and the lightweight Rambouillet/Romulus/Redwood. It seemed 
> easy to distinguish the two, and I had one of each for awhile. I have 
> enjoyed seeing the proliferation of new models, but frankly, it starts to 
> get a little bewildering to me - imagine how the casual observer must feel 
> when trying to make sense of it! The Hillborne was supposed to be a halfway 
> compromise of the Atlantis and the Hilsen, I think, but those two models 
> weren't altogether dissimilar in terms of tire clearance and general 
> capabilities (the Hilsen moniker replaced the Saluki which was billed as 
> partway between Atlantis and Rambouillet). The Bombadil is the new 
> heavy-duty workhorse offroader (which was the Atlantis role, previously), 
> but the Hunqapillar splits the difference between that and the Atlantis. Do 
> I have that right? How much difference is there to split? There ha

Re: [RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Stonehog]

I had them most recently at about 6-8 degrees (http://flic.kr/p/c3moYY), but 
swapped them out for Porteur bars (similar angle - http://flic.kr/p/cZgd4w). I 
usually have the bars about the same angle of tilt as the saddle.  I like that 
the Porteurs have a similar feel, albeit narrower, and they come back a bit 
giving me an upright rest position. 

I am gradually becoming a drop convert, however, and see the day coming where I 
just have noodles on my riders. 

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA

On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:14 AM, Philip Williamson  
wrote:

> I used to really like my moustache bars, but now I don't, so I kind of wonder 
> about angles, too. I did have albatross bars on that bike for a while, and a 
> different seat. Either I didn't set the m-bars up the same as they had been 
> before, or else I changed...
> 
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
> 
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:32:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
> 
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem finding 
> a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago switched over to 
> standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have M-bars and like them: 
> how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? Tilted? 
> 
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
> 
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
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Re: [RBW] What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[clyde canter]

I like the brake hoods parallel with the ground and the reach 10cm shorter
and 10cm more height than I do on drops. For me the reach and height are
more important as to how they feel than the tilt. A half centimeter one way
or the other can really screw up  the feel for me.  YMMV.



On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:32 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:

> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude
> (tilt) of your mustache bars?
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground?
> Tilted?
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated.
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris
>
> --
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Lee Chae]

Good morning, all.

I guess this is a good example of everybody needing to make their own peace
with moustache bars. I like them low and a bit far away. With this
positioning, I do most of my riding with my hands at 10 and 2 on the curves
leading from the hooks to the bar ends. When my hands need a little relief,
I rotate my wrists or move my hands to a new place. When my hands or back
need more relief, I can lean into the hooks or go upright at the bar ends.
I also use the hooks position for headwinds or faster moments. And, I like
grabbing on the straight bar segments when climbing.

With this configuration, I find that I have to tilt the bars down or else
the bar ends force my wrists into a broken position, like after you swing a
hammer or cast a fly. I've also positioned my saddle and bars so that I'm
pretty balanced and can lift my hands off the bar and still stay in my
riding position. So, not a lot of pressure on the bars to begin with.

With all of that said, on a couple of longer rides, at the 60-70 mile mark,
I have felt some discomfort in my hands that I have yet to experience with
drop bars.

Anyways, here's some pics of my setup:

*http://tinyurl.com/3upa5ox
**http://tinyurl.com/9owepc5
**http://tinyurl.com/3sjfeoq*

Happy Friday!
Lee
SF, CA



On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Kelly  wrote:

> I have the mustache bars on my Quickbeam.   My biggest mistake with them
> was to have them to far away.   A nice stretched out ride in the hooks but
> due to the short backward reach I was always putting to much pressure on me
> hands for all day tours when sitting up.
> I love the feel up on in the hooks but the end of bar feel has been
> difficult to find a happy place for me.  I have raised the bar now and
> installed a dirt drop stem to shorten the reach.  Feels better sitting up
> but doesn't feel "as" good when climbing or in the hooks.  Overall I like
> them and will keep them on this bike for a while longer.
>
> Kelly
>
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 2:14:04 AM UTC-5, Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>> I used to really like my moustache bars, but now I don't, so I kind of
>> wonder about angles, too. I did have albatross bars on that bike for a
>> while, and a different seat. Either I didn't set the m-bars up the same as
>> they had been before, or else *I* changed...
>>
>> Philip
>> www.biketinker.com
>>
>> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:32:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>>>
>>> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the
>>> attitude (tilt) of your mustache bars?
>>>
>>> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem
>>> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago
>>> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have
>>> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground?
>>> Tilted?
>>>
>>> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're
>>> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated.
>>>
>>> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris
>>>
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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[BSWP]

About 5 degrees drop at the ends, and the top just slightly angled down. No 
bar-end shifters on my QB, so I machined some extenders that give me a 
similar length at the ends, nice for my wrists.

I have M-bars on all three of my bicycles, they feel just fine and natural 
after 15 years of using 'em.

- Andrew, Berkeley

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Kelly]

I have the mustache bars on my Quickbeam.   My biggest mistake with them 
was to have them to far away.   A nice stretched out ride in the hooks but 
due to the short backward reach I was always putting to much pressure on me 
hands for all day tours when sitting up. 
I love the feel up on in the hooks but the end of bar feel has been 
difficult to find a happy place for me.  I have raised the bar now and 
installed a dirt drop stem to shorten the reach.  Feels better sitting up 
but doesn't feel "as" good when climbing or in the hooks.  Overall I like 
them and will keep them on this bike for a while longer. 

Kelly

On Friday, September 7, 2012 2:14:04 AM UTC-5, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> I used to really like my moustache bars, but now I don't, so I kind of 
> wonder about angles, too. I did have albatross bars on that bike for a 
> while, and a different seat. Either I didn't set the m-bars up the same as 
> they had been before, or else *I* changed...
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:32:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the 
>> attitude (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>>
>> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
>> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
>> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
>> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
>> Tilted? 
>>
>> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
>> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>>
>> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Matthew J]

I'll admit this is not exactly helpful, but I gave up on M bars.  I got 
them with my Hilsen and really wanted to like them.   I tried a bunch of 
angles and even flipped them over.  Nothing worked right for me.
 
I've since gone to Albatross and Jitensha bars, both of which work great 
for me.  I have Dream bars (apparently no longer available?) on my Sunday 
afternoon joy ride bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Addison Wilhite]

Like many I wanted to like them more than I actually did.  I finally
reinstalled them on my Allrounder and got the height right.  I don't think
I'd want to do a long tour with them but they are great for what I use the
AR for.  The pic doesn't really show the height but you get the idea.

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2011/09/bicycle-cockpit.html

-- 
Addison
http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Scott G.]

I use the Soma Lauterwasser bars, the m-bars grand dad.

Tops are level, the drops end up at about 10% tilt.

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Michael Rivers]

http://flic.kr/p/a9aRtg

Here is a side view where I ended up. After a year I switched to VO Rando bars 
after trying many angles and stems. I never figured out how to make these 
comfortable on this bike. I do think the location of the brake levers effects 
comfort also, as there is a lot of lateral choice for placement. 

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[islaysteve]

Jim, I appreciate your comments and would definitely not ask you to put a 
cork in it!  Thank you for sharing your thoughts as a long-time Riv 
owner/rider and a bicycle dealer.  I agree with your logic, and share some 
of your bewilderment at the current Riv product line.  I wouldn't buy the 
threadless version of a Riv, but then I fit right into the demographic that 
you describe (the slowing-down one).  Keep the comments coming.  Cheers, 
Steve

On Friday, September 7, 2012 2:39:47 AM UTC-4, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:
>
> I agree that quill stems are a niche that Riv fills, more or less 
> exclusively, which is no small thing. Obviously, the quill stem has a 
> modest-sized but loyal following, and Grant would be smart to keep filling 
> this niche, as long as it exists, all by himself.
>
> On the other hand, think about demographics. I'm 35 - most cyclists my age 
> or younger have little or no nostalgia for quill stems and threaded 
> steerers, and, in fact, may think a quill looks funny or archaic compared 
> to more familiar threadless systems. If you're over 50, then you probably 
> came of age as a cyclist in the quill stem era, and are not planning to 
> change. But if you're over 50, your bike purchases are likely to slow down 
> in the next 10-20 years, if they haven't already, while people my age and 
> younger are just ramping up the new bike spending. Obviously, this is loose 
> speculation, and individual situations vary. But I think it's safe to say 
> that the number of people who prefer quill stems, and are willing to pay 
> extra to get a frame that takes a quill stem, is shrinking, not 
> growing/stabilizing. I have no stats to back this up, just a limited view 
> from my own knothole. 
>
> Of course, Riv already makes a bunch of frame models that take a quill 
> stem. If one frame model out of eight stepped outside the lines a bit, in 
> the interest of cutting costs, making the frame sturdier without a double 
> top tube, and being more accommodating to a much wider variety of 
> contemporary stems, bars, and headsets (more versatility!), I imagine that 
> the result would be broader appeal and new customers. That particular model 
> with the (for example) disc tabs and 1-1/8" threadless steerer might not be 
> the "retro-grouch"  ideal of many on this discussion board, but there are 
> lots of other options for the purists. And there's no reason whatsoever 
> that such a frame couldn't adhere to underlying principles, like good 
> tire/fender clearance, higher handlebars (it can be done with good design 
> in a non-ugly way), and, of course, lovely lugged steel with a cool 
> paintjob.
>
> I started following Riv when there were basically two models: the heavy 
> duty Atlantis, and the lightweight Rambouillet/Romulus/Redwood. It seemed 
> easy to distinguish the two, and I had one of each for awhile. I have 
> enjoyed seeing the proliferation of new models, but frankly, it starts to 
> get a little bewildering to me - imagine how the casual observer must feel 
> when trying to make sense of it! The Hillborne was supposed to be a halfway 
> compromise of the Atlantis and the Hilsen, I think, but those two models 
> weren't altogether dissimilar in terms of tire clearance and general 
> capabilities (the Hilsen moniker replaced the Saluki which was billed as 
> partway between Atlantis and Rambouillet). The Bombadil is the new 
> heavy-duty workhorse offroader (which was the Atlantis role, previously), 
> but the Hunqapillar splits the difference between that and the Atlantis. Do 
> I have that right? How much difference is there to split? There have been 
> discussions of what sets the Roadeo apart from the Hilsen, but it seems the 
> differences are minor. It gets hard to see where one model stops and the 
> next begins. Now to add yet another heavy-duty touring bike to the mix? Is 
> there really a hungry market for a slightly less fancy version of the 
> Hunqapillar that won't cannibalize Hunqapillar sales? Or should this new 
> "budget" model be a substantially different bike that reaches out to a 
> whole new crowd without competing with existing models?
>
> I'm sorry for rambling about all this. Sometimes it rubs people the wrong 
> way that I say stuff that isn't 100% Riv cheerleading (I've been told by 
> two other list participants to put a cork in it over the years), but I'm 
> not trying to damage Riv or criticize anybody for liking what he or she 
> likes. I enjoy the sharing of different ideas. Amazing that there's so much 
> to discuss (ad nauseum) about these machines!
>
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 7:25:54 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>>
>> It may be a cost saver as you suspect, but I hope they never go that 
>> route. 
>> I value the easy upping and downing of a quill stem, and not being 
>> bound to earlier choices by having cut a threadless steerer tube. 
>> Threaded forks and quill stems are one of the differentiators that 
>> make RBW a company I am glad 

[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[David Spranger]

My SimpleOne has its mustache pointed down at a about 5-6 degree angle. Got 
that way after trial and error. I have three bikes, each with a different 
bar (mustache, noodle, albatross). Mustache is my favorite followed closely 
by the albatross. I used to love the noodle as well, but I think I am just 
not a drop bar person anymore. I have considered trading it out for a 
mustache, but I like that all three bikes are setup differently.

David
Charlotte, NC

On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:32:35 AM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
> Tilted? 
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Matt Beebe]

I like them to be more or less parallel to the ground.   That is, so that 
the ends of the bar are horizontal, or maybe barely-perceptibly pointed 
downward. 

One of the the keys to moustache bars I have found is, you have to give 
them a little time.   You need at least a week of riding every day before 
you really get to liking them.I have them on one of my bikes but have 
noodles on my regular commuter and so am most accustomed to those-   and I 
find that if I switch over to the moustache-barred bike for a while, it a 
takes a bit to get settled in and really appreciate them.Once I get to 
that point, they are touring-comfortable, no problem, and are great 
off-road.

The other thing about moustaches is I have to have my levers set up so that 
the brake lever hoods are no more than 12.5-13cm apart between the points 
(where the cable comes out on non-aero levers). This is about what the 
original Bridgestone catalog recommended I believe.If they are too far 
apart, riding on the hoods doesn't work, and that, or some variant of that 
(there are multiple ways to ride on the hoods with moustaches), is my 
75-percent-of-the-time position on those bars. I seen a lot of people 
set up their moustaches with the levers much farther apart, like out/down 
on the hooks, and I wonder if that's why they don't end up liking the bars 
sometimes.



On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:32:35 AM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
> Tilted? 
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Matt Beebe]

I like them to be more or less parallel to the ground.   That is, so that 
the 'return' part of the bar or end of the hooks is horizontal, or maybe 
barely-perceptibly pointed downward. 

One of the the keys to moustache bars I have found is to give them a little 
time.   You need at least a week of riding every day before you really get 
to liking them.I have moustache bars on one of my bikes but have 
noodles on my regular commuter and so am most used to those-   and I find 
that if I switch over to the moustache-barred bike for a while, it a takes 
a bit to get settled in and really appreciate them.Once I get to that 
point, they are touring-comfortable, no problem.   

The other thing about moustaches is that I have to have my levers set up so 
that the brake lever hoods are no more than 12.5-13" apart between the 
points (where the cable comes out on non-aero levers). This is about 
what the original Bridgestone catalog recommended I believe.If they are 
too far apart, riding on the hoods doesn't work, and that, or some variant 
of that (there are multiple ways to ride on the hoods on moustaches), is my 
75-percent-of-the-time position on those bars. I seen a lot of people 
set up their moustaches with the levers much farther apart, like out/down 
on the hooks, and I wonder if that's why they don't end up liking the bars 
sometimes.



 
On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:32:35 AM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
> Tilted? 
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[charlie]

I think the new heavy duty tour bike will be priced in that $1000 range 
(frame only) and so will sell quite well. I also think the Taiwan frames 
are working and make it possible to basically re-create the entire line for 
half what Japanese or American costs will allow. I for one would be 
interested in something that can essentially replace my tigged touring 
frame that while decent, isn't lugged but I don't want to spend $1875 - 
$3000 for it if I can get something comparable for half. While I have some 
interest in disc brakes (mechanical) because of where I live (Pacific 
Northwest) I don't think I'd want them on a Rivendell nor would a non quill 
stem excite me. The quill stem is a major feature of a Rivendell allowing 
much more options with fit and is precisely why I ended up with two 
currently. The younger generation is coming up and they need to be schooled 
on the benefits of doing it the Rivendell way.  

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:
>
> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
>  
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: What Is Your Moustache Attitude?

[Philip Williamson]

I used to really like my moustache bars, but now I don't, so I kind of 
wonder about angles, too. I did have albatross bars on that bike for a 
while, and a different seat. Either I didn't set the m-bars up the same as 
they had been before, or else *I* changed...

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:32:35 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Seeing Manny's panda photo has prompted me to wonder: What is the attitude 
> (tilt) of your mustache bars? 
>
> I'm on my second mustache-equipped bike, and having the same problem 
> finding a comfortable tilt that I had on the first (which I long ago 
> switched over to standard drop bars). So I ask of those of you who have 
> M-bars and like them: how do you have them set up? Parallel to the ground? 
> Tilted? 
>
> Any help the group can offer to find a way to set up the bars so they're 
> comfortable for more than an hour's ride would be much appreciated. 
>
> --Eric "Love the Look, Hate the Feel" Norris 
>

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