Re: [biofuels-biz]
ken, we are presently delivering small (800 liters/day in two batches) biodiesel plants in the argentina-uruguay area, and will be happy to exchange info on these. oil used is mainly sunflower. cheers dick. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 00:54 Subject: [biofuels-biz] Hello everyone, Anyone producing biodiesel in economical quantity? Maybe we can set up an exchange for biodiesel made from different oil sources. Any reactions? Ken - Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
Hi to all, Question to Dick Carlstein: You deliver two plants for 800 litres of BD per day, do you ? 1) What are the initial costs per plant ? I have here the offer from Polish producer (for rapeseed oil esterification) for the batch 400litres/day at say US $ 11,000 (eleven thousand dollars). 2) What are the running costs: - sunflower oil (Poland rapeseed oil is about US $ 700/tonne - derived from the prices of rapeseed) - methanol ??? (or ethanol), Poland: 791 $/tonne (0,76 kg/liter is the density of methanol, ethanol: 4cents/liter) - KOH ??? (Poland 19-to 21 $/25 kg ) - electricity ??? (Poland 5cents/kWhr) 3. What are the revenue sources and their prices? - biodiesel (Poland - nobody knows yet, Petrol diesel cost US $ 440/tonne is the wholesale price), - glycerine (Poland - I do not know yet - leftovers from rapeseed sold to farmers as fodder ??? do not know yet (applies only when the BD producers gets rapeseed as the raw material) One very important remark: One can buy rapeseed and other oils at the agrarian stock exchange in Rotterdam for example. Prices are (more or less) rapeseed oil 400 to 430 Euro/tonne (three months delivery) coconut oil 355 Euro/tonne sunflower oil : Other remark: From my rough analysis (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes that the most important factor for BD production to be profitable is ( I want to sell it for profit) : the cost of getting oil whatever it is (sunflower, rapeseed or coconut etc.) In case of my country this price or cost of oil should not exceed US$ 400/tonne. Any comments Last question to Ken: What do you mean by economic quantity of biodiesel ??? jan surwka to-be producer and seller of rapeseed derived biodiesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz]
Dick, Can you point me in the direction of more info on the plant you produce? That's just about the size operation I'm looking to expand into. Thanks in advance. Andy Mixing Biodiesel in the garage and my VW loves it. :-) Dick Carlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ken, we are presently delivering small (800 liters/day in two batches) biodiesel plants in the argentina-uruguay area, and will be happy to exchange info on these. oil used is mainly sunflower. cheers dick. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] key physical parameters
Hi to all, I do not know if it helps (but it was very useful in my analyses) but I give some figures below: Density: rapeseed oil: 0.906 kg/litre biodiesel (from rapeseed oil):0.88 kg/litre petrodiesel:0.85 kg/litre methanol: 0.76 kg/litre LHV (Lover Heating Value) or energy content if you will: rapeseed oil (raw):34.3 MJ/litre (40.4 MJ/kg) biodiesel 33.1 MJ/litre (40.1 MJ/kg) petrodiesel:35.1 MJ/litre (46.4 MJ/kg) ethanol:21.1 MJ/litre methanol: 18 MJ/litre (18/0.76= MJ/kg) glycerine: does anyone know ??? jan surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
jan, my answer in the text of your em : Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:32 Subject: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... You deliver two plants for 800 liters of BD per day, do you ? * no, we deliver one plant capable of processing two batches of 400 liters each per 24 hr. period. our present delivery time is 120 days. 1) What are the initial costs per plant ? * u$s 9'100.00 faf buenos aires, plus per diem and travel for instalation and start-up. *this is a two vessel plant, semiautomatic, with manifold venting, and methanol recoup circuit with vacuum pump. all asi 304 ss construction. testing and calibration equipment provided with plant, as well as start-up training. all auto systems have redundant hand operated back-up systems. biodiesel is filtered to 5 microns. *client provides 3 bar compressed air source, and storage facilities for oil, methanol, glycerol, and biodiesel. *we are considering licensing construction abroad. 2) What are the running costs: *all prices per liter, in u$s dollars, unless indicated : -refined sunflower oil : 0,315 -industrial grade methanol : 0.49 -naoh : 0.80 / kg. -30 kWh per 400 liter batch. -3.0 hours per batch for processing and clean-up. 3. What are the revenue sources and their prices? *there is no market for biodiesel per se. our clients mix it with petrodiesel and treat is as an additive. saves hassle with the tax people. *diesel fuel in argentina/uruguay is 0.52 retail, 0.45 wholesale. *glycerol can be sold for 0.60-0.80 / kg. pure glycerin sells for 1.80-2.20 / kg. From my rough analysis (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes that the most important factor for BD production to be profitable is ( I want to sell it for profit) : (oil, etc...) Any comments *seems to me glycerol would be the most important variable in your cost/profit equation. hope this helps. cheers, dick. snipping is an art. you too can be an artist. just do it !!! Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz]
andy, tks. for the inquiry. just posted basic specs for our std plant. if you need more info pls. let me know. whereabouts are you located, and what oil(s) are you planning to use ? cheers, dick. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:44 Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Dick, Can you point me in the direction of more info on the plant you produce? That's just about the size operation I'm looking to expand into. Thanks in advance. Andy Mixing Biodiesel in the garage and my VW loves it. :-) Dick Carlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ken, we are presently delivering small (800 liters/day in two batches) biodiesel plants in the argentina-uruguay area, and will be happy to exchange info on these. oil used is mainly sunflower. cheers dick. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
Hi, What's the recovery rate(or percentage) for methanol per batch of 400 litres? Gerry CARLSTEIN [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/06/2001 03:41:20 AM Please respond to biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... jan, my answer in the text of your em : Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:32 Subject: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... You deliver two plants for 800 liters of BD per day, do you ? * no, we deliver one plant capable of processing two batches of 400 liters each per 24 hr. period. our present delivery time is 120 days. 1) What are the initial costs per plant ? * u$s 9'100.00 faf buenos aires, plus per diem and travel for instalation and start-up. *this is a two vessel plant, semiautomatic, with manifold venting, and methanol recoup circuit with vacuum pump. all asi 304 ss construction. testing and calibration equipment provided with plant, as well as start-up training. all auto systems have redundant hand operated back-up systems. biodiesel is filtered to 5 microns. *client provides 3 bar compressed air source, and storage facilities for oil, methanol, glycerol, and biodiesel. *we are considering licensing construction abroad. 2) What are the running costs: *all prices per liter, in u$s dollars, unless indicated : -refined sunflower oil : 0,315 -industrial grade methanol : 0.49 -naoh : 0.80 / kg. -30 kWh per 400 liter batch. -3.0 hours per batch for processing and clean-up. 3. What are the revenue sources and their prices? *there is no market for biodiesel per se. our clients mix it with petrodiesel and treat is as an additive. saves hassle with the tax people. *diesel fuel in argentina/uruguay is 0.52 retail, 0.45 wholesale. *glycerol can be sold for 0.60-0.80 / kg. pure glycerin sells for 1.80-2.20 / kg. From my rough analysis (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes that the most important factor for BD production to be profitable is ( I want to sell it for profit) : (oil, etc...) Any comments *seems to me glycerol would be the most important variable in your cost/profit equation. hope this helps. cheers, dick. snipping is an art. you too can be an artist. just do it !!! Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Rethinking economy of scale
Dear listmates, There has been traffic on both lists about the need to scale up production of biofuels to economical levels, and that has triggered much thinking on my part. Until now I, too, had been concentrating on industrial scale processes - admittedly still not on a very large industrial scale, because the logistics of coconut-based industry here limit plant size - feeling that smaller scale processing would be uneconomical. The recent traffic forced me to rethink my position. In thanks, I would like to share the result of my cogitations. When a person with surplus wealth considers his investment options, he has a wide range of choices. His surplus is cash, or convertible to cash, and therefore highly mobile. For him, ROI is the preponderant criterion. When a farmer with little cash and growing cash expenses considers investing his time and effort, the criteria are fundamentally different. His labor is not readily convertible to cash - that's why he's poor! - so his best bet is usually to use labor to reduce cash expenditures, e.g. for fuel. If he is growing the usual crops - banana and coconut, he is fortunate in being labor rich, as little labor is required to cultivate these crops most of the year. Thus he has time, and with a little scrounged equipment and a lot of effort he can make small quantities of high-grade fuel. An economic analysis written from the point of view of somebody investing cash to get cash would prove that this activity is uneconomical, but economics is the science of human action (Ludwig von Mises' phrase), and different humans have different needs and resources. If our hypothetical farmer can save cash by investing labor, that is profit for him regardless of what hypothetical cash value an analyst might set on his labor. To put numbers to it, if a farmer can get diesel fuel currently costing 15 pesos per liter at the pump with a CASH outlay smaller than 15 pesos per liter, it is a winning proposition for him. I haven't got prices for methanol yet, so I don't know whether that question has a positive answer for true (transesterified) biodiesel, but if the pseudo-biodiesel that consists of a blend of kerosene and coconut oil is considered the answer is unmistakeably YES. Kero costs less at the pump here than diesel, and when blended 20:1 with zero-CASH-cost coconut oil from the farm the cash saving is considerable. Even a sharp rise in kero cost will not change this result because the weighting factor is 5%. Furthermore, the effect on this poor debtor nation's economy can be considerable, regardless of the scale of individual efforts. Filipinos are very quick to emulate something that works, and a few liters a day, multiplied by hundreds of thousands - eventually of farmers, comes to a very large reduction in petroleum purchases on the international spot market - a very desirable result. What is more, a small change in balance-of-payments can have a very strong cascade effect on the domestic economy, as cash saved is invested in local manufactures. It is essentially that process that changed the USA from a primarily agrarian nation into an industrial superpower in two generations! Now the question is: how to make this feasible? There must be standard methods, easily implemented at small scale, for refining coconut oil and/or biodiesel to a standard that is compatible with existing equipment, and there must be standard tests, easily and quickly carried out, for verifying that this has been accomplished. I would like to challenge interested listers to do as I do, tabulating the key acceptability criteria and searching for cheap and reliable methods for determining a sample's conformity to those criteria. Viscosity I think is easy. Water content, free acids and alkalis, etc. may require considerable thought and experiment - or has this already been worked out? Best to all, Marc de Piolenc Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz]
Tell us more! Marc de Piolenc Dick Carlstein wrote: ken, we are presently delivering small (800 liters/day in two batches) biodiesel plants in the argentina-uruguay area, and will be happy to exchange info on these. oil used is mainly sunflower. cheers dick. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
Hi Dick Interesting. What sort of process are you using? Best Keith Addison jan, my answer in the text of your em : Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:32 Subject: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... You deliver two plants for 800 liters of BD per day, do you ? * no, we deliver one plant capable of processing two batches of 400 liters each per 24 hr. period. our present delivery time is 120 days. 1) What are the initial costs per plant ? * u$s 9'100.00 faf buenos aires, plus per diem and travel for instalation and start-up. *this is a two vessel plant, semiautomatic, with manifold venting, and methanol recoup circuit with vacuum pump. all asi 304 ss construction. testing and calibration equipment provided with plant, as well as start-up training. all auto systems have redundant hand operated back-up systems. biodiesel is filtered to 5 microns. *client provides 3 bar compressed air source, and storage facilities for oil, methanol, glycerol, and biodiesel. *we are considering licensing construction abroad. 2) What are the running costs: *all prices per liter, in u$s dollars, unless indicated : -refined sunflower oil : 0,315 -industrial grade methanol : 0.49 -naoh : 0.80 / kg. -30 kWh per 400 liter batch. -3.0 hours per batch for processing and clean-up. 3. What are the revenue sources and their prices? *there is no market for biodiesel per se. our clients mix it with petrodiesel and treat is as an additive. saves hassle with the tax people. *diesel fuel in argentina/uruguay is 0.52 retail, 0.45 wholesale. *glycerol can be sold for 0.60-0.80 / kg. pure glycerin sells for 1.80-2.20 / kg. From my rough analysis (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes that the most important factor for BD production to be profitable is ( I want to sell it for profit) : (oil, etc...) Any comments *seems to me glycerol would be the most important variable in your cost/profit equation. hope this helps. cheers, dick. snipping is an art. you too can be an artist. just do it !!! Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
actually, almost 100 % of 'free' methanol. we use vacuum and 50¡ celsius + to extract it before we actually separate the glycerol from the biodiesel. initial meth content depends on the oil being used, usually 15-20 %. cheers, dick. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 22:09 Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... Hi, What's the recovery rate(or percentage) for methanol per batch of 400 litres? Gerry CARLSTEIN [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/06/2001 03:41:20 AM Please respond to biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com To: biofuels-biz biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... jan, my answer in the text of your em : Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 14:32 Subject: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... You deliver two plants for 800 liters of BD per day, do you ? * no, we deliver one plant capable of processing two batches of 400 liters each per 24 hr. period. our present delivery time is 120 days. 1) What are the initial costs per plant ? * u$s 9'100.00 faf buenos aires, plus per diem and travel for instalation and start-up. *this is a two vessel plant, semiautomatic, with manifold venting, and methanol recoup circuit with vacuum pump. all asi 304 ss construction. testing and calibration equipment provided with plant, as well as start-up training. all auto systems have redundant hand operated back-up systems. biodiesel is filtered to 5 microns. *client provides 3 bar compressed air source, and storage facilities for oil, methanol, glycerol, and biodiesel. *we are considering licensing construction abroad. 2) What are the running costs: *all prices per liter, in u$s dollars, unless indicated : -refined sunflower oil : 0,315 -industrial grade methanol : 0.49 -naoh : 0.80 / kg. -30 kWh per 400 liter batch. -3.0 hours per batch for processing and clean-up. 3. What are the revenue sources and their prices? *there is no market for biodiesel per se. our clients mix it with petrodiesel and treat is as an additive. saves hassle with the tax people. *diesel fuel in argentina/uruguay is 0.52 retail, 0.45 wholesale. *glycerol can be sold for 0.60-0.80 / kg. pure glycerin sells for 1.80-2.20 / kg. From my rough analysis (I am doing it for my to-be installation) it goes that the most important factor for BD production to be profitable is ( I want to sell it for profit) : (oil, etc...) Any comments *seems to me glycerol would be the most important variable in your cost/profit equation. hope this helps. cheers, dick. snipping is an art. you too can be an artist. just do it !!! Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs...
straight tickel. by the book. but with all sorts of before and after testing, pressure + temp during mixing, and vacuum + temp for meth recovery. all fluid transfers are pressurized. no washing. very 'affirmative' mixing... our clients use refined edible oil only. (so far). none of them use it poor for tax reasons. so far no bent rods (:-D) cheers, dick. snipping frees processor cycles and bandwidth !!! (This is a Public Service Message) Sent: Mircoles 6 de Junio de 2001 01:23 Subject: [biofuels-biz] Re: key figures for the initial costs and operating costs... Interesting. What sort of process are you using? Keith Addison Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz]
most relevant details in my other postings, but will be very happy to fill in any missing details !! cheers, dick. Nothing is as cuddly as a well snipped posting !! (This is a Public Service Message) Sent: Martes 5 de Junio de 2001 22:50 Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Tell us more! Marc de Piolenc Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!!
This article makes the Malthusian error of assuming that a quantity will continue to grow along a simple exponential, when in fact real living systems always level off through interaction with others. Using the same simplistic, pseudo-scientific arguments, one can easily prove that Mankind is already extinct. Very silly - and discredits the idea of resource conservation when the kids realize that the argument is bogus. Glad I didn't have this guy for a teacher. Marc de Piolenc Message: 4 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:29:54 +1200 From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) Todd, A good article and one everyone on this group should read. I recently said it is estimated that if we keep finding oil at the same rate it is estimated that we have a 70 year supply but that I believe we could halve that with the increasing number of vehicles and countries like China coming on stream. While I have never sat down and done the maths the examples below show that I may not be too far off the mark. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) New York Times, OP-ED, June 4, 2001 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/opinion/04NERI.html The Mirage of a Growing Fuel Supply By EVAR D. NERING COTTSDALE, Ariz. - When I discussed the exponential function in the first-semester calculus classes that I taught, I invariably used consumption of a nonrenewable natural resource as an example. Since we are now engaged in a national debate about energy policy, it may be useful to talk about the mathematics involved in making a rational decision about resource use. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does freezing? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea whose time has come. I hope. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Hi to all, Does anyone out there know the process for removing water from ethanol using 3A zeolite. I know this is the material used by industry to do this but I'd like to know the process. As I understand it this will remove all the water content of distilled ethanol. Any remarks? Thanks, Ron Miller First, make sure it's dry, by heating to about 600 deg. F for several hours, then cooling back down in dry air. Toss in the required amount with your hydrous ethanol (molecular sieve zeolite absorbs like 25% of its weight in water) and stand back -- it can get HOT. Takes a few hours to get saturated. Oh, I'm sure the pros will talk all about columns of X dia. and Y length, with flow rates of blah, blah, but the simple ways are best. Good luck -- BTW, I only have free samples of this stuff. Did you actually have to PAY for it, and if so, how much (if you don't mind my asking :-)). Check out http://www.sorbentsystems.com/desiccants_charts.html for some good info and graphs, and let us know your results. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Bio wash waste water
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 18:13:07 + To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Re: Bio wash waste water I'm thinking of evaporating off the water (plenty of sun here) Can anyone tell me what I'll be left with and if it can be used for anything? James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
i agree with keith, the american farmer and i suppose farmers all over the world have become so proficient at producing commodities that we cant get rid of them. why do you think the american farmers are crying about low prices so much, its because there is more of the stuff laying around than we can consume. graineries and storage facilities all over the nation are full and there are mountains of corn and other grains outside going to waste that we could be running through our vehicles and other machinery. there is less land in production now than there was 30 years ago and we still have a surplus. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] biodiesel standard...
Hi to all, Thank you Ray Hough for very good reference for comparing BD standard. The table presented is really very informative. I have another quality question: How can we assure the almost 100% repeatability of the quality biodiesel in each batch jan surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] key physical parameters
Hi to all, I do not know if it helps (but it was very useful in my analyses) but I give some figures below: Density: rapeseed oil: 0.906 kg/litre biodiesel (from rapeseed oil):0.88 kg/litre petrodiesel:0.85 kg/litre methanol: 0.76 kg/litre LHV (Lover Heating Value) or energy content if you will: rapeseed oil (raw):34.3 MJ/litre (40.4 MJ/kg) biodiesel 33.1 MJ/litre (40.1 MJ/kg) petrodiesel:35.1 MJ/litre (46.4 MJ/kg) ethanol:21.1 MJ/litre methanol: 18 MJ/litre (18/0.76= MJ/kg) glycerine: does anyone know ??? jan surwka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fw: Javadiesel
Coffee oil, 386kg/ha (Tickell), greater than hemp or soy... Mexico, one of the region's coffee powerhouses, has yet to begin official testing but researchers say local farmers are already selling their discarded beans to industries as a cheap source of fuel, said Salvador Dias Cardenas, an investigator at Chapingo University in Veracruz state. We are evaluating the alternatives, said Dias, though he added that persuading industries to adapt their machinery to burn coffee would be difficult because most are rigged to burn fossil fuels like natural gas and diesel. http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=11067 Ed B. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Bio wash waste water
I'm thinking of evaporating off the water (plenty of sun here) Can anyone tell me what I'll be left with and if it can be used for anything? James Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe
Ladies and Gentlemen, I've had the pleasure of reading along with all of you for a number of months and believe now I can add something useful. Feel free to toss a cabbage if you don't agree. :-) I'm making small batches (3gallon) of biodiesel as I learn the processes involved. I'm slowly gearing up to produce at least the 20 gallons per month I burn in my VW Passat TDI. I'd like very much, tho, to begin a much larger processing operation and retail sale. The comment: There are a number of Volkswagen Diesel enthusiasts that are buying commercially-produced biodiesel. These folks are the type that go out of their way for the best fuel, the highest cetane, etc. to burn in their 'babies'. Those that live near a production facility are happy to pay a premium for a better, cleaner fuel, and that it's green is all the better. All the other folks that want the fuel can't afford to have quantities of it shipped across the country. An example: A Portland, Oregon manufacturer sells fuel for $1.50 per gallon (US) in 55 gallon drums. It costs approximately $180 per drum to ship to Michigan. Now the fuel costs $5.10 per gallon. So...drive out and buy 10 drums and drive them back home. Just adding the price of fuel to make the trip (in other words, free driver and no '32 cents per mile' to cover expenses for the vehicle) brings the price up to $2.50 per gallon. These rough numbers do not figure in sales taxes, road use taxes, fees incurred shipping motor fuel across state lines, etc. Distributed processing seems to be the way to go. Every town that has a couple of fast food stores and a Krispy Creme donut shop could support small-scale production and sell biodiesel in large lots for fuel, small lots as a lubricity additive. It seems that, just as centralized computing went out the window in the past, and commercial power has to move to decentralized production in the present, that the small decentralized biodiesel processing plant would be the most cost effective, commercially viable model. Bring on those cabbages! Andy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hydrogenated Oil
Does anybody have any experience with the processing of Hydrogenated Oils? OK, how about knowledge? OKOK! References? I'm interested in any processing or performance information. Much appreciated Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing BD
fridge compressor :) Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe Ladies and Gentlemen, I've had the pleasure of reading along with all of you for a number of months and believe now I can add something useful. Feel free to toss a cabbage if you don't agree. :-) I'm making small batches (3gallon) of biodiesel as I learn the processes involved. I'm slowly gearing up to produce at least the 20 gallons per month I burn in my VW Passat TDI. I'd like very much, tho, to begin a much larger processing operation and retail sale. The comment: There are a number of Volkswagen Diesel enthusiasts that are buying commercially-produced biodiesel. These folks are the type that go out of their way for the best fuel, the highest cetane, etc. to burn in their 'babies'. Those that live near a production facility are happy to pay a premium for a better, cleaner fuel, and that it's green is all the better. All the other folks that want the fuel can't afford to have quantities of it shipped across the country. An example: A Portland, Oregon manufacturer sells fuel for $1.50 per gallon (US) in 55 gallon drums. It costs approximately $180 per drum to ship to Michigan. Now the fuel costs $5.10 per gallon. So...drive out and buy 10 drums and drive them back home. Just adding the price of fuel to make the trip (in other words, free driver and no '32 cents per mile' to cover expenses for the vehicle) brings the price up to $2.50 per gallon. These rough numbers do not figure in sales taxes, road use taxes, fees incurred shipping motor fuel across state lines, etc. Distributed processing seems to be the way to go. Every town that has a couple of fast food stores and a Krispy Creme donut shop could support small-scale production and sell biodiesel in large lots for fuel, small lots as a lubricity additive. It seems that, just as centralized computing went out the window in the past, and commercial power has to move to decentralized production in the present, that the small decentralized biodiesel processing plant would be the most cost effective, commercially viable model. Bring on those cabbages! Andy Michigander eh? Me too and there is a Krispy kreme about a mile and a half from me. I joined the list a couple of weeks ago and find this very interesting. I drive a Chevy Suburban w/ a 6.2 L diesel. Have not tried to make BioD yet, but am working on it. I've gotten 2, 55 gallon drums for storage (MeOH, WVO, and/or BioD, but they are poly-propylene, so they will not be used as a reaction vessel, but hey, they were free!). I've contacted a propane supply company about getting some old propane cylinders (that can't be filled any longer) and he said come and pick them up, and I can have them. A 100 pound cyl. is about 30 gallons (US, for all you metricians out there) and a 200 pound cyl. is a bit more than 60 gallons. There is a valve on top and a round collar but if you turn it over and cut off the bottom, then you've got a nice reaction vessel w/ a drain already in the lowest part of the bottom. Let me know how you are doing. I'm a bit concerned about cold weather gelling of BioD, but am thinking of mixing w/ kero or DinoD for the winter months. I would also like to market it as well. Contact me off list if you would like. Joe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Michigan
Install a 2-tank Straight Renewable Oil (SRO) system. Then you have less biodiesel to make and lots of flexibility in winter. You can run biodiesel/SRO blend in winter in your SRO tank to thin it and compensate for less heat from engine. You can then start up and shut down on winter diesel in main tank even in cold. Michigan winter. You can also use a filter heater (the TDI already has a filter heating circuit so does not need one.) We have some components available now. May have demo farm near Detroit soon if all goes well. Also delivering a Mercedes to near Pt. Huron (Sarnia, ON) that will be set up with an SRO system. Next month or so. Ed B. www.biofuels.ca - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
I'm reposting this question because I do not believe it was answered last time I posted or perhaps I missed the reply. But their are marine fuel filters that are designed to filter the fuel and remove the water from it as well. Their is a serperate resevoir on the bottom of the filter that holds the water and periodically must be dumped. I am fully aware of their operation and intended use, however has anyone used them to filter oil or ethanol to remove the water? The filters I have in mind are of the large marine diesel variety and I am in the process of designing a recovery and pre-filter WVO (waste vegetable oil) trailer and am wondering if this filter would be effective for my purposes. Any insight is appreciated. regards, cordain dulles,va From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 13:33:43 +0900 You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing. Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to distill their hard cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you can you can freeze fairly quickly -- the % of ethanol will never be above 16% at max, and you need at least 50% alky to anti-freeze a solution. Depends on how cold it gets, I guess, but zero should pretty well do it for any wine or beer. It'd be about 190-proof, plenty of ethanol. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing BD
Try a redundant fridge/freezer compressor :) Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
In Oz farming is on the nose and considered by some environmental groups as the industry that should be eliminated ASAP because of its impact. Environmental costs of farming are no more costed than those of any other industry. If mineral fuel sources are replaced by renewable combustion then the only environmental saving is in the release of CO2. The arguments against global warming are mostly social or humanitarian since the rate of warming is likely within the parameters of natural change. Given the apparent attitude of some environmentalists to humanitarian issues this spells hypocrisy. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Ken, Thanks for the info. I don't have any as yet. In fact I haven't built my still at this time. The state of Alabama has a lot of restrictions pertaining to ethanol production. I have written to the governor, the lt governor, my senators, representatives, the president and vice president about the laws but all I get back are form letters thanking me for writing. I don't want to go to jail for making fuel so I am gathering info from any source I can. Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't have a clue. Thanks for writing. Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Hi to all, Does anyone out there know the process for removing water from ethanol using 3A zeolite. I know this is the material used by industry to do this but I'd like to know the process. As I understand it this will remove all the water content of distilled ethanol. Any remarks? Thanks, Ron Miller First, make sure it's dry, by heating to about 600 deg. F for several hours, then cooling back down in dry air. Toss in the required amount with your hydrous ethanol (molecular sieve zeolite absorbs like 25% of its weight in water) and stand back -- it can get HOT. Takes a few hours to get saturated. Oh, I'm sure the pros will talk all about columns of X dia. and Y length, with flow rates of blah, blah, but the simple ways are best. Good luck -- BTW, I only have free samples of this stuff. Did you actually have to PAY for it, and if so, how much (if you don't mind my asking :-)). Check out http://www.sorbentsystems.com/desiccants_charts.html for some good info and graphs, and let us know your results. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
You have removed calorific value of the farm product. At present (6 billion)we are capable of sufficient overproduction to wear that, but at 18 billion (2050?)we would not, try 50 billion people. The projections that show population leveling off and then decreasing require that a minimum global standard of living (including education) be achieved. How does elimination of fossil fuels assist that? If we in the first world are not prepared to give up our wealth or share of production then achieving population control requires a massive increase in global production, a simple choice. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite
Hi Ron, Here in the UK 3A zeolite 1.6 -2.5 mm spheres is 20 dollars for 500 grams 30 dollars for 1 kg and 58 dollars for 3 kg. Don't have a clue how much you would need to make a decent amount of anhydrous ethanol. I am new to this as well. If I get any more info I will let you know. cheers bob golding - Original Message - From: ronald miller sr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Ken, Thanks for the info. I don't have any as yet. In fact I haven't built my still at this time. The state of Alabama has a lot of restrictions pertaining to ethanol production. I have written to the governor, the lt governor, my senators, representatives, the president and vice president about the laws but all I get back are form letters thanking me for writing. I don't want to go to jail for making fuel so I am gathering info from any source I can. Do you have any idea how much zeolite cost? I don't have a clue. Thanks for writing. Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite Hi to all, Does anyone out there know the process for removing water from ethanol using 3A zeolite. I know this is the material used by industry to do this but I'd like to know the process. As I understand it this will remove all the water content of distilled ethanol. Any remarks? Thanks, Ron Miller First, make sure it's dry, by heating to about 600 deg. F for several hours, then cooling back down in dry air. Toss in the required amount with your hydrous ethanol (molecular sieve zeolite absorbs like 25% of its weight in water) and stand back -- it can get HOT. Takes a few hours to get saturated. Oh, I'm sure the pros will talk all about columns of X dia. and Y length, with flow rates of blah, blah, but the simple ways are best. Good luck -- BTW, I only have free samples of this stuff. Did you actually have to PAY for it, and if so, how much (if you don't mind my asking :-)). Check out http://www.sorbentsystems.com/desiccants_charts.html for some good info and graphs, and let us know your results. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
If we were to put a loop in a tank full of wet ethanol .Circulate refrigerant thru the loop. Voila! Water would freeze and you have a 'popsicle' of ice and dry Ethanol. Gerry Dick Carlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/05/2001 10:19:28 PM Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) Subject: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Washing BD
Those hermetically sealed fridge compressor are not that suitable. Their motor windings insulation are meant for gas cooled and not air cooled. Therefore the compressor need to run constantly and cannot be cycled( by pressurestat) Those diaphram compressors would be more suitable as the motors are rated for fan cooled, only minus are the diaphrams. Need to be replaced but not difficult. Gerry ian [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 06/06/2001 04:31:38 AM Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group) Subject: Re: [biofuel] Washing BD Try a redundant fridge/freezer compressor :) Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Keith, Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible. Thanks, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does freezing? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea whose time has come. I hope. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
we have made maple syrup using this method. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Dick Carlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Is there a chart somewheres showing the amount of meal left after oil extraction for each crop like there is for oil per pound or acre? And would it neccesarily cause a glut -- perhaps with many crops the meal could be then used for ethanol production? Appal Energy wrote: Herein lies the biggest concern relative to biodiesel - a feed meal glut - thereby bringing offerings for oil bearing commodities down. The farming community needs to bring every oil bearing seed possible into play to regulate the feed meal production or else more farmers will succcumb to bankruptcy when the backlash of a glut hits. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing. Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to distill their hard cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you can you can freeze fairly quickly -- the % of ethanol will never be above 16% at max, and you need at least 50% alky to anti-freeze a solution. Depends on how cold it gets, I guess, but zero should pretty well do it for any wine or beer. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!!
Marc, Dr. Nering made no claims or stipulations about population growth in his analogy. Rather, he used actual estimated increases in global energy consumption. The 5% growth per annum which he assumed is a global reality. Whether the percentage remains, increases or decreases from 5% was not his primary point. (Mind you, if the percentage changes, it will be by human choices, no matter what direction it turns.) The increase in global consumption is not only due to population increase, but flat out consumption increase by other countries adopting western uncivilization consumption patterns. There is no reason to fault his example. It is accurate two fold - both in the analogy of exponential growth and the basic concept of finite resource consumption. Take note: He did not pull a Nostradamus and predict the year, day or hour of the last wheeze. He simply took some of the fossil fuel industry's best guesses, incorporated statistical growth rates and extrapolated what is as real of a possibility as anything anyone else can provide. Pray tell how is that wrong? It's actually quite an impressive way to teach a calculus problem, all the while addressing real world problems. I doubt if any of his students will ever forget it. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] This article makes the Malthusian error of assuming that a quantity will continue to grow along a simple exponential, when in fact real living systems always level off through interaction with others. Using the same simplistic, pseudo-scientific arguments, one can easily prove that Mankind is already extinct. Very silly - and discredits the idea of resource conservation when the kids realize that the argument is bogus. Glad I didn't have this guy for a teacher. Marc de Piolenc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Coconut oil
-Original Message- From: F. Marc de Piolenc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2001 4:18 PM To: Biofuel List Subject: [biofuel] Coconut oil Hanns Wetzel wrote: Then there is the juice, which apparently gets thrown away. When the coconut is still green, the juice (I refuse to call it milk) contains much sugar. Do not get coconut water or juice confused with milk. The milk is expressed from the grated meat and contains oil, while the water simply pours out when the nut is opened. **I'm not, but here in Oz and and in other non tropical parts of the world people often refer to the juice (water) as well as the fat containing emulsion you refer to as milk, hence my comments. The water is an excellent beverage - refreshing and restorative. When I climb to inspect my local Rotary Club's reforestation project on Mount Agad-Agad, I drink one or two nuts' worth at the top to get the oomph to get back down! **same as I've done for most of my life walking around the coastal (and some inland) regions of PNG. After a hearty breakfast at 6.00am, I'd subsist on green coconuts (called kulau in Pidgin) till the evening meal about 7.00pm. I have eaten an excellent sherbet in Guadeloupe that was made from it, though I can't find it here. It can also be used to make vinegar, and coco vinegar is generally used here (wine vinegar is imported, expensive and essentially a gourmet item). Presumably, if acetic fermentation is possible, then alcoholic fermentation is, too. Must get some buko juice and yeast and find out... What happens to this sugar as the nut matures and the endosperm thickens and hardens? Does it get converted to fat? Or is enough still present that it can be fermented to produce ethanol? Good question. Easily settled, too. I have access to both mature (lov) and young (buko) coconuts here. Yeast should not be hard to find, if I'm willing to settle for bread yeast rather than brewer's yeast. Time for a comparison test after I finish with the June issue of the magazine... Finally, as I mentioned in a previous message, can ethanol be derived from veggie oil (perhaps through intermediate trans esterification) just like gasoline is derived from crude fossil oil? The chemistry of that doesn't work out too well. You can get glycerol (a trihydroxy alcohol) from the oil by hydrolysis (such as occurs in soap manufacture), and the fatty acids can be converted to fatty alcohols, but these will be higher alcohols, not ethanol. Best, Marc Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Harmon, Don't let Club Sierra hear you say that. They apparently think that agriculture should deal solely with food and not mix with energy issues. Take the weight of each oilseed per bushel, subtract 94% of the oil weight (cold pressing leaves ~ 6% of the oil in the feed meal), subtract any hull weight and you have your answer. For solvent extraction, for all practical intents and purposes, calculate a 0% oil remainder. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there a chart somewheres showing the amount of meal left after oil extraction for each crop like there is for oil per pound or acre? And would it neccesarily cause a glut -- perhaps with many crops the meal could be then used for ethanol production? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Harmon Seaver wrote: You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing. Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to distill their hard cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you can you can freeze fairly quickly -- the % of ethanol will never be above 16% at max, and you need at least 50% alky to anti-freeze a solution. Depends on how cold it gets, I guess, but zero should pretty well do it for any wine or beer. I got the idea from thinking about ice wine and hard cider that's made in the Okanagan Valley where I used to live. The fermentation process for fuel ethanol or biodiesel ethanol is no different than that for beer or wine, and since the yeast die off well before the alcohol percentage reaches the high 'teens, I thought that such an approach would create a more favorable energy balance for ethanol fuel production in cold climates. It would be an interesting thing to try. Perhaps someone might experiment with this approach and post the results. Further, it would eliminate the problems associated with licensing a distillation apparatus. (No, officer, it's NOT a still, it's a refrigerator. . .) If it works, I wonder how the energy balance of refrigeration would compare to conventional distillation. robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
Gary and Jos Kimlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Oz farming is on the nose and considered by some environmental groups as the industry that should be eliminated ASAP because of its impact. Environmental costs of farming are no more costed than those of any other industry. It depends what you mean by farming. So-called conventional farming - industrialised farming - is fossil-fuel intensive, economically expensive, and the ecological costs are externalised. They can be and have been costed. http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19991218/newsstory4.html Crops without profit Britain is paying an extraordinary price for its agriculture FARMING costs Britain more than £2.3 billion each year, according to the most detailed study yet of the industry's wider balance sheet. This bill, which includes the cost of cleaning up pollution, repairing habitats and coping with sickness caused by farming, almost equals the industry's income. The study puts figures on the external costs of farming--the costs that farmers themselves don't have to pay for. It comes up with a cost of £208 per hectare, which is double the amount suggested by previous, less detailed, studies of the costs in Germany and the US. But the survey's chief author, Jules Pretty of the Centre for Environment and Society at the University of Essex, still describes this figure as very conservative. [more] Sustainable farming methods work better, don't have these problems, don't mean lower yields, and their use is growing rapidly worldwide. Plenty of references for that here: http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html If mineral fuel sources are replaced by renewable combustion then the only environmental saving is in the release of CO2. ?? You think it's just the fuel? The arguments against global warming are mostly social or humanitarian since the rate of warming is likely within the parameters of natural change. Very unclear - you mean the arguments for global warming? You'd seem to be ignoring a rather vast amount of accumulating evidence worldwide, including much in Australia, along with the opinion of many thousands of scientists. Given the apparent attitude of some environmentalists to humanitarian issues this spells hypocrisy. You keep painting environmentalists with this same rather strange and marginal broad brush, without any references or apparent foundation. Which environmentalists are you referring to? Or are you just slinging mud? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Keith, Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible. Thanks, Ron Miller Hi Ron Sorry, I don't understand - what's rude? I think we all share your aims, or should. There's no division that I know of between biodiesel and ethanol people - I see it as the same subject. If there were a division I'd be very perturbed. Please explain? Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does freezing? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea whose time has come. I hope. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing. Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to distill their hard cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you can you can freeze fairly quickly -- the % of ethanol will never be above 16% at max, and you need at least 50% alky to anti-freeze a solution. Depends on how cold it gets, I guess, but zero should pretty well do it for any wine or beer. It'd be about 190-proof, plenty of ethanol. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Economy of Scale-or-Smaller is Better...Maybe
Hi Andy Ladies and Gentlemen, I've had the pleasure of reading along with all of you for a number of months and believe now I can add something useful. Feel free to toss a cabbage if you don't agree. :-) We're fresh out of cabbages, but would you accept a bunch of roses? :-) I'm making small batches (3gallon) of biodiesel as I learn the processes involved. I'm slowly gearing up to produce at least the 20 gallons per month I burn in my VW Passat TDI. I'd like very much, tho, to begin a much larger processing operation and retail sale. The comment: There are a number of Volkswagen Diesel enthusiasts that are buying commercially-produced biodiesel. These folks are the type that go out of their way for the best fuel, the highest cetane, etc. to burn in their 'babies'. Those that live near a production facility are happy to pay a premium for a better, cleaner fuel, and that it's green is all the better. All the other folks that want the fuel can't afford to have quantities of it shipped across the country. An example: A Portland, Oregon manufacturer sells fuel for $1.50 per gallon (US) in 55 gallon drums. It costs approximately $180 per drum to ship to Michigan. Now the fuel costs $5.10 per gallon. So...drive out and buy 10 drums and drive them back home. Just adding the price of fuel to make the trip (in other words, free driver and no '32 cents per mile' to cover expenses for the vehicle) brings the price up to $2.50 per gallon. These rough numbers do not figure in sales taxes, road use taxes, fees incurred shipping motor fuel across state lines, etc. Distributed processing seems to be the way to go. Every town that has a couple of fast food stores and a Krispy Creme donut shop could support small-scale production and sell biodiesel in large lots for fuel, small lots as a lubricity additive. It seems that, just as centralized computing went out the window in the past, and commercial power has to move to decentralized production in the present, that the small decentralized biodiesel processing plant would be the most cost effective, commercially viable model. Those nice folks at the Carbohydrate Economy and the Institute of Local Self-Reliance would agree with you. So would Fritz Schumacher and the Appropriate Technology people, and not just about power production. So would I. Plus a few others on this list who're thinking (and doing) the same way. Keep going, don't stop now! Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Bring on those cabbages! Andy Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars
InfoBeat - Report: Nissan to develop new cars TOKYO (AP) - Nissan Motor Co. and Renault SA of France have decided to develop cars with a fuel cell that runs on gasoline, following the lead of the world's largest automakers, a Japanese newspaper said Monday. Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner alternatives to the internal-combustion engine. Nissan, which is owned 36.8 percent by Renault, has opted for the gasoline-powered fuel cell because of the likelihood that it will become the American standard, the national Yomiuri newspaper reported in a front page story. Ritsuko Harimoto, a Nissan spokeswoman, could not immediately comment on the report. In January, General Motors Corp. of the United States and Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. said they would join Exxon Mobil Corp., a major U.S. oil company, in an alliance to develop gasoline as the source of energy for fuel-cell cars. The announcement by the world's largest and third-largest automakers led Nissan and Renault to come up with a similar model, the Yomiuri said, quoting unidentified company sources. Nissan and Renault will spend 85 billion yen ($714 million) on the project and will market the fuel-cell vehicles as early as 2005, the newspaper said. Regulators around the world are pressuring automakers to make cars that generate no pollution particles or gases. By 2003, California will require zero-emissions cars to make up 4 percent of annual sales in the state. http://www.infobeat.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/IBFrontEnd.woa/wa/fullStory ?article=407953691 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
j johnny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree with keith, the american farmer and i suppose farmers all over the world have become so proficient at producing commodities that we cant get rid of them. why do you think the american farmers are crying about low prices so much, its because there is more of the stuff laying around than we can consume. graineries and storage facilities all over the nation are full and there are mountains of corn and other grains outside going to waste that we could be running through our vehicles and other machinery. there is less land in production now than there was 30 years ago and we still have a surplus. Hi Li'l Johnny Thankyou! Yep, and also yep. It's often been said that the real problem of agriculture is overproduction. The corn and grain mountains and other surplus mountains aren't confined to the US, all the developed countries have them, and that has far more to do with a rigged economic system than with their efficiency. To be a bit simplistic about it, the current solution to overproduction is concentration through livestock production. That makes sense, but the current, er, system is hopelessly inefficient and wasteful, with very high externalised costs. There are better ways. Integrated biofuels production is a better way. If the focus was turned round and placed firmly at on-farm and local-community level rather than in ADM's boardroom, it would also do a great deal to help the other issue, that of economics, the real problem of which isn't how to achieve greater growth and top-level profitability but how to achieve more equitable distribution. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Hi Robert Harmon Seaver wrote: You'd have to have an awful lot of ethanol to keep it from freezing. Strong beer (5-7%) freezes pretty easily. People used to distill their hard cider by putting a barrel out to freeze. Any fermented solution you can you can freeze fairly quickly -- the % of ethanol will never be above 16% at max, and you need at least 50% alky to anti-freeze a solution. Depends on how cold it gets, I guess, but zero should pretty well do it for any wine or beer. I got the idea from thinking about ice wine and hard cider that's made in the Okanagan Valley where I used to live. The fermentation process for fuel ethanol or biodiesel ethanol is no different than that for beer or wine, and since the yeast die off well before the alcohol percentage reaches the high 'teens, I thought that such an approach would create a more favorable energy balance for ethanol fuel production in cold climates. It would be an interesting thing to try. Perhaps someone might experiment with this approach and post the results. Further, it would eliminate the problems associated with licensing a distillation apparatus. (No, officer, it's NOT a still, it's a refrigerator. . .) If it works, I wonder how the energy balance of refrigeration would compare to conventional distillation. Okay, that makes sense. I didn't twig you wanted to freeze the mash (beer, whatever - the ferment) rather than the distillate. Sorry. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Hi Cordain We've dealt with filtering water out of WVO before, and the consensus was that it wouldn't work. Not sure if dehydrating ethanol by filtering has come up. But the kind of filters you're talking of weren't discussed. If nobody else knows the answer, I very much hope it's you who'll be providing it! Are you in a position to experiment with these filters? Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ I'm reposting this question because I do not believe it was answered last time I posted or perhaps I missed the reply. But their are marine fuel filters that are designed to filter the fuel and remove the water from it as well. Their is a serperate resevoir on the bottom of the filter that holds the water and periodically must be dumped. I am fully aware of their operation and intended use, however has anyone used them to filter oil or ethanol to remove the water? The filters I have in mind are of the large marine diesel variety and I am in the process of designing a recovery and pre-filter WVO (waste vegetable oil) trailer and am wondering if this filter would be effective for my purposes. Any insight is appreciated. regards, cordain dulles,va Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489
Well, I think that the ethanol people would be the moonshine makers, whereas the Biodiesel people would obviously be the more highly cultivated? Really, though, now that we know that ethanol is available why are we bothering with methanol? I find myself learning with methanol and then having to switch to ethanol for environmental advantage. Mike B -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:24 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 Keith, Do the biodiesel people just not want the ethanol people online. Things seem to get rude at times. I am just trying to increase my knowledge base and find a way to make my own fuel as cheap as is possible. Thanks, Ron Miller Hi Ron Sorry, I don't understand - what's rude? I think we all share your aims, or should. There's no division that I know of between biodiesel and ethanol people - I see it as the same subject. If there were a division I'd be very perturbed. Please explain? Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] zeolite - Digest Number 489 From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: zeolite I don't mean to be flip about this, but why don't the ethanol enthusiasts, or those using ethanol for biodiesel, simply leave their brew outdoors during a winter night? In the morning, remove the ice floating on top, and the winter temperatures will have done the distilling for free! Anyone tried this? *brilliant lateral thinking, rabello !! i see no reason why it shouldn't work. will try it in my freezer soon as i can get my hand on some hydroalky, don't have freezing weather these parts of the globe. Pint of beer in a PET bottle should do it. *it's good, solid, practical ideas like these that put 'meat' in this list... *keep them coming, cheers, dick. The ethanol acts as an antifreeze keeping the water from freezing. Also the spec. gravity of water is greater than EtOH, it would sink not float. Joe Would it separate at all? Boiling doesn't work that way, does freezing? Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ snipping is a consummate art, reserved only for those with exquisite taste, and impeccable manners R.G.C. No doubt, RGC. Nonetheless, Snipping For The Rest Of Us is an idea whose time has come. I hope. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!!
as countries like china develop, I believe his figures might end up being conservative. He knows his topic, and is a respected scientist. Doesn't make him right, but does lend credence to what he says. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: F. Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel List biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 8:02 AM Subject: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency This article makes the Malthusian error of assuming that a quantity will continue to grow along a simple exponential, when in fact real living systems always level off through interaction with others. Using the same simplistic, pseudo-scientific arguments, one can easily prove that Mankind is already extinct. Very silly - and discredits the idea of resource conservation when the kids realize that the argument is bogus. Glad I didn't have this guy for a teacher. Marc de Piolenc Message: 4 Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 08:29:54 +1200 From: David Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) Todd, A good article and one everyone on this group should read. I recently said it is estimated that if we keep finding oil at the same rate it is estimated that we have a 70 year supply but that I believe we could halve that with the increasing number of vehicles and countries like China coming on stream. While I have never sat down and done the maths the examples below show that I may not be too far off the mark. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) New York Times, OP-ED, June 4, 2001 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/04/opinion/04NERI.html The Mirage of a Growing Fuel Supply By EVAR D. NERING COTTSDALE, Ariz. - When I discussed the exponential function in the first-semester calculus classes that I taught, I invariably used consumption of a nonrenewable natural resource as an example. Since we are now engaged in a national debate about energy policy, it may be useful to talk about the mathematics involved in making a rational decision about resource use. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency!!!! (?)
and after the meal has been fermented for ethanol, the mash can be used as animal feed, compost, or raw material for a biodigester. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Food vs Biodiesel production was Re: [biofuel] We don't need no stinking efficiency (?) Is there a chart somewheres showing the amount of meal left after oil extraction for each crop like there is for oil per pound or acre? And would it neccesarily cause a glut -- perhaps with many crops the meal could be then used for ethanol production? Appal Energy wrote: Herein lies the biggest concern relative to biodiesel - a feed meal glut - thereby bringing offerings for oil bearing commodities down. The farming community needs to bring every oil bearing seed possible into play to regulate the feed meal production or else more farmers will succcumb to bankruptcy when the backlash of a glut hits. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars
Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner alternatives to the internal-combustion engine. Where did the carbon go? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:58 AM Subject: [biofuel] Nissan to develop new cars InfoBeat - Report: Nissan to develop new cars TOKYO (AP) - Nissan Motor Co. and Renault SA of France have decided to develop cars with a fuel cell that runs on gasoline, following the lead of the world's largest automakers, a Japanese newspaper said Monday. Fuel-cell cars run on electricity produced by taking hydrogen from a liquid such as methanol or gasoline, and combining it with oxygen from air. They emit only water and heat as exhaust and have become the focal point of research in an industry seeking cleaner alternatives to the internal-combustion engine. Nissan, which is owned 36.8 percent by Renault, has opted for the gasoline-powered fuel cell because of the likelihood that it will become the American standard, the national Yomiuri newspaper reported in a front page story. Ritsuko Harimoto, a Nissan spokeswoman, could not immediately comment on the report. In January, General Motors Corp. of the United States and Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. said they would join Exxon Mobil Corp., a major U.S. oil company, in an alliance to develop gasoline as the source of energy for fuel-cell cars. The announcement by the world's largest and third-largest automakers led Nissan and Renault to come up with a similar model, the Yomiuri said, quoting unidentified company sources. Nissan and Renault will spend 85 billion yen ($714 million) on the project and will market the fuel-cell vehicles as early as 2005, the newspaper said. Regulators around the world are pressuring automakers to make cars that generate no pollution particles or gases. By 2003, California will require zero-emissions cars to make up 4 percent of annual sales in the state. http://www.infobeat.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/IBFrontEnd.woa/wa/fullStory ?article=407953691 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] rethinking economy of scale...Digest Number 491
Hi Dick I'm afraid you paint with far too broad a brush, very sweeping generalisations - true, but very far from the only thing that's true. There are far more than a billion subsistence farms, and the variety of circumstance is immense - do you really think you cover them all with what you've said? From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Rethinking economy of scale Bravo Marc! And thankyou! A couple of things to add. Biodiesel may or may not be feasible at the individual small-peasant level *or necessary, i might add... bullocks, mules, and such are known to have little use for biodiesel, being programmed to run better on biomass. Indeed they do, and produce useful amounts of improved biomass in return. That's one option. There are many good projects dealing with this - animal traction, animal breeding, cart design, local road improvement, and of course biogas, and more. The methanol problem can be solved by using ethanol from local sources - very interested to hear what you find with fermenting coconut water... *i understand that coco water alky gives you an unbearable hangover. a shot of biodiesel 'the morning after the night before' might help straighten things out. it should clear your brain, as well as other parts of your humanity. Flip. I'd predict there's a way of producing usable amounts of ethanol from local sources. *yup. they've been doing it for eons now. compensates for being abject, sub-poverty-line, small-peasants and subsistence farmers. that's how they took the west over from the natives. used to call it firewater then Also flip. *folks, i wish we'd get REAL on this. there's ~ one thousand million subsistence farming operations going on in this planet, and none of them has a tractor, or anything else that runs on biodiesel, cocokero, or whatever. Nonsense. Subsistence farms and subsistence farming communities run through just about the full range of energy profiles - from sweat and that's it all the way through every possible shade and combination to diesel generators etc etc. Improving local energy options at any of these levels (except the economic vacuum cleaner at the top) can have a very positive ripple effect. Using renewable, locally available raw materials is always the best option - one of the few times you can say always. If you can use biofuels merely to increase the productivity of the local blacksmith you've done everyone good. Though again it's not that simple. It never is. Diesel motors that have outlived their vehicles are cheap and available in many or most parts of the Third World. *and they never will have either, if the farming scene continues to evade the basic poor farmer's plight, which is lack of capital accumulation. Much too simplistic. There are many other factors that keep poor farmers poor. You should read Marc's analysis more carefully. *an interviewer recently asked ge's jack welch how much $ 10'000 in ge shares invested when he took over as ceo would be worth today. answer : $ 800'000. go explain that to a philipine slash-and-burn operator... In what way is it relevant? I should also say that slash-and'burn seems to be rather rare, though the phrase gets bandied about a lot. The clear-cut industrial forestry of the north is one example of slash-and-burn. In the Third World landless peasants follow the logging companies, it's the companies that slash and burn. In Africa, slash-and-burn turns out to be a rational system, well adapted to the local ecology - in fact it's rotational, and sustainable, until it gets put under unseemly pressure arising from quite other quarters. For a very clear case-study: http://journeytoforever.org/keith_paul.html * so, harsh as it might sound, IMHO biofuels should someday work for the 'bourgeois' farmer and up, but the small-peasants and subsistence farmers will continue to use carbohydrate fed muscle power. A very unfounded conclusion. snip *so please, again, lets get real. biofuels are fascinating, and we're all hoping they'll take-off someday, and replace fossilfuels. but they're not what's going to end subsistence farming, or make small-peasant farmers rich. only trees can do that, but that's another kettle of fish... Whyever would you want to end subsistence farming? Why make small peasants rich? It seems you're missing a LOT of things, Dick. You're also wrong about trees - not the only answer, though part of most answers (but not all). You're aiming at the wrong things - surpluses that go beyond local community use have what benefit? To sell them in the city? Once such surpluses are achieved, better to recycle them back into the community in the form of biofuels, which really can have a knock-on effect. But not towards such as progress, excess, wealth, and then what? - conspicuous consumption? It's sustainability, both environmental and economic, that's the goal. It's achievable, it is being achieved, there are many success stories,
[biofuel] Fwd: EREN Network News -- 06/06/01
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:00:12 -0600 From: Kevin Eber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: National Renewable Energy Laboratory To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: EREN Network News -- 06/06/01 Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = EREN NETWORK NEWS -- June 6, 2001 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events DOE Reviews Research Programs in Efficiency, Renewables DOE Advances Energy Savings in Buildings, Funds New Energy-Saving Projects, Adds Clean Cities Member SeaWest Building 50-Megawatt Wind Plant in Wyoming Carnegie Mellon Makes Large Wind Power Purchase Californians Cut Electricity Use By 11 Percent in May *Site News Solarbuzz *Energy Facts and Tips EIA Examines Recent and Future Trends for Natural Gas *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- DOE Reviews Research Programs in Efficiency, Renewables DOE in recent weeks has initiated strategic reviews of its research and development programs in both energy efficiency and renewable energy. The reviews were recommended in President Bush's National Energy Policy, and were among the first steps taken by DOE to implement the policy. The Presidentâs energy policy recommended a review of the current funding and historic performance of these programs, and based on the reviews, Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham will propose appropriate funding of those programs that are found to be performance-based and are modeled as public-private partnerships. The reviews are scheduled to be completed by September 1st. See the DOE press releases at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases01/maypr/pr01076.htm and http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases01/maypr/pr01084.htm. As part of the reviews of these programs, DOE is seeking public input regarding the objectives and achievements of the current programs, suggested objectives for future programs, and implementation of current and future programs. DOE will hold day-long public meetings in June in the cities of Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Philadelphia, Seattle, and Washington, D.C. For further information, including times and locations, see the EREN Web site at: http://www.eren.doe.gov/eere/publicmeetings.html. Note that there is also a mailing address to send written comments to, or you can email comments to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]. DOE Advances Energy Savings in Buildings, Funds New Energy-Saving Projects, Adds Clean Cities Member In recent news, which ranges from efficient buildings to alternative fuel vehicles, DOE presents several examples of the diversity of its current energy efficiency and renewable energy programs. In early May, DOE announced that in partnership with the building industry, it has developed a 20-year plan to make buildings more energy efficient, comfortable, and healthy. The plan specifically addresses the so-called building envelope -- the part of the building that separates it from the outside environment. This includes the floors, walls, and ceilings. By 2020, the plan envisions building envelopes that are net producers of energy, using intelligent features to provide naturally derived lighting and ventilation. See the DOE press release at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases01/maypr/pr01071.htm. Last week, DOE announced that it was helping to fund 164 energy efficiency and renewable energy projects throughout the country. Through its State Energy Program, DOE will provide $17.5 million in funds that will be combined with approximately $22.5 million in funds from states and their project partners. The projects will run the gamut from assisting states in developing energy-efficient building codes, to showing state and local governments methods of saving energy that were developed for the federal government, to examining how small, modular power systems can help meet the nation's energy needs. The projects are located in 48 states, three U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. See the DOE press release at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases01/maypr/pr01085.htm. More than $4 million of the DOE funds announced last week will go toward 52 projects to accelerate and expand the use of alternative fuel vehicles, in support of DOE's Clean Cities Program. DOE also announced last week that it has added Minnesota's Twin Cities Clean Cities Coalition as its 81st member of the program. The coalition will serve the Minneapolis-St. Paul region of the state and is developing local markets for E85, a mixture of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. Fourteen ethanol plants are located in Minnesota, and coalition partners
Re: [biofuel] Washing BD
I would suggest that an inline pressure accummulator tank and a valve to your aerator stone would be a wise move if you are using a fridge compressor since they are not designed to run continuously. Also, since they are free it may also be wise to hook up several to a manifold leading to the tank. It is then a simple matter to hook a pressure cutoff switch to the tnak and use it to control the compressors on/off cycles. Iff one poops out (and you notice) replace it with a spare. We used small dia. rubber hose slipped over the outlet tubes and secured with hose clamps connected together with inexpensive plastic tees. Dana --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Those hermetically sealed fridge compressor are not that suitable. Their motor windings insulation are meant for gas cooled and not air cooled. Therefore the compressor need to run constantly and cannot be cycled( by pressurestat) snip. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
