Fwd: Re: makeing the switch

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

For some reason this reply went only to Rod.

Yes Rod. But this is very very dependent on what you need to do and what 
you want in a screen reader. iOS and VoiceOver don't cut it either way 
for me. It's a convenient little access point for some things. That's 
all it is to me. But that's me. I'm sure for some it's great. I just 
don't want eagerness and wishful thinking landing people where I am. I 
paid the typical ridiculous Apple price and would have been much better 
off buying a new Windows laptop. But again, that's just me and my needs.

Regards,
Tom


On 4/4/2017 10:53 PM, Rod Hutton wrote:

Hi Tom,

Yes, and yet some have migrated to IOS:

https://www.macstories.net/stories/one-year-of-ipad-pro/2/#content

Happy trails,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 10:45 PM
To: Loy ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 

Subject: Re: makeing the switch

Loy,
Yes. Mac OS is a full blown operating system like Windows while iOS is a
slimmed down mobile OS designed to run on the mini computers it's
designed for.
Regards,
Tom


On 4/4/2017 5:59 PM, Loy via Talk wrote:

Is A desk top Mac OS different that on an IPad?
  - Original Message -
  From: Butch Bussen via Talk
  To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: makeing the switch


  I actually bought a used mac mini a couple years ago, maybe 3 or 4.  It
  was all just to foreign to me.  Not only is the o s different, but
  screen reader commands as well.  With no help at all, it was just to
  much for me these days to start from scratch.  It isn't at all like
  windows, so you're starting from the ground up.  I'm to old, fat, and
  lazy to do that these days.
  73
  Butch
  WA0VJR
  Node 3148
  Wallace, ks.


  On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Janet Brandly via Talk
  wrote:

  > Hi Tony,
  > I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing
  > the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple
  > product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences
  > as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd be
  > interested in following your adventures.
  >
  >
  > Janet
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
  > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
  > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  > Subject: makeing the switch
  >
  > Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for
  > several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise 
of
  > Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the
  > switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time
  > to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini
  > and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites
  > using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t
  > accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just
  > so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with 
my
  > thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen
  > reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all
  > those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes
  > “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the
  > truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on
  > Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they
  > are and who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW
  > back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and 
myself
  > started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t
  > do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told
  > me it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my
  > buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the 
website
  > and as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I
  > found that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did.
  > So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same
  > type of thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows
  > and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months
  > and telling WE and Windows goodby.
  > ___
  > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
  > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >
  > For membership options, visit
  > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jbrandly%40shaw.ca.
  > For subscription options, visit
  > 

RE: windows screen readers

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Probably the only truly free screen reader is NVDA!  Whether or not one
sends in a donation, anyone anywhere can download it, install it and use it
to one's heart's content.

All other screen readers, whether it be Talkback or VoiceOver, incur some
cost however minimal such a cost might be.  These screen readers are not
readily available to just about anyone to download, install and play with.
It is of absolute necessity that a user MUST have in his or her possession a
gadget that runs either one.  The cost of ownership is built into the final
price one pays for acquisition.  Both Talkback and VoiceOver are packaged
deals; as such, from an economic perspective, neither one is free!  

That aside, personally, if I can't get work done using Windows because my
preferred screen reader is on the CHOPPING BLOCK, I will move over to
Android!  On this platform, my choices are vast and I am NOT tied to a
stake.  I'm not at home with proprietary stuff, I enjoy playing with various
permutations!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado  


---
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A great article for those considering a Mac.

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

This is by Jonathan Mosen, a very experienced user of virtually every 
accessibility option available to us. It is a knowledgeable first hand 
long term experiential article that will tell you a lot more than the 
wishful thinking in this thread.

http://mosen.org/saying-goodbye-to-the-mac/
Hth,
Tom
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Re: Windows screen readers

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

Tony C wrote:

Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn.
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
turn on voice over and have fun.



Depending on what you want to do this *may* be true. Otherwise, bear in 
mind that an app pretty much either works with VoiceOver or it doesn't. 
If it doesn't there's nothing a user can do, i.e. there is no scripting 
of VoiceOver. And there is nothing Apple can do. Their policy is simple. 
Apps either support VoiceOver or they don't. End of story.
The exception is apps that sort of support VoiceOver. That is their 
developers slapped in basic support. I have apps that half work due to 
this. Some things work and some are unlabeled graphics. there are things 
I can get to but cannot execute. What fun.
And then there are simple things like whether or not an app supports 
portrait and landscape mode. I have an iPad Pro with a keyboard and 
always use it in landscape mode. There are times when it's simply much 
quicker and easier to lift my hand and work the touch screen. I have two 
apps from big name companies that do not support landscape mode. So 
those apps are always sideways on the screen and a royal pain to work 
with the touch screen.

So it's far from nirvana.
Tom
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RE: makeing the switch

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Tom,

Yes, and yet some have migrated to IOS:

https://www.macstories.net/stories/one-year-of-ipad-pro/2/#content

Happy trails,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 10:45 PM
To: Loy ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 

Subject: Re: makeing the switch

Loy,
Yes. Mac OS is a full blown operating system like Windows while iOS is a 
slimmed down mobile OS designed to run on the mini computers it's 
designed for.
Regards,
Tom


On 4/4/2017 5:59 PM, Loy via Talk wrote:
> Is A desk top Mac OS different that on an IPad?
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Butch Bussen via Talk
>   To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:24 PM
>   Subject: Re: makeing the switch
>
>
>   I actually bought a used mac mini a couple years ago, maybe 3 or 4.  It
>   was all just to foreign to me.  Not only is the o s different, but
>   screen reader commands as well.  With no help at all, it was just to
>   much for me these days to start from scratch.  It isn't at all like
>   windows, so you're starting from the ground up.  I'm to old, fat, and
>   lazy to do that these days.
>   73
>   Butch
>   WA0VJR
>   Node 3148
>   Wallace, ks.
>
>
>   On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Janet Brandly via Talk
>   wrote:
>
>   > Hi Tony,
>   > I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing
>   > the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple
>   > product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
> experiences
>   > as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd be
>   > interested in following your adventures.
>   >
>   >
>   > Janet
>   >
>   > -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
>   > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
>   > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   > Subject: makeing the switch
>   >
>   > Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for
>   > several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent 
> demise of
>   > Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the
>   > switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time
>   > to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad 
> mini
>   > and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites
>   > using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t
>   > accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just
>   > so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left 
> with my
>   > thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a 
> screen
>   > reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with 
> all
>   > those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes
>   > “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the
>   > truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on
>   > Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they
>   > are and who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW
>   > back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and 
> myself
>   > started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I 
> couldn’t
>   > do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told
>   > me it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my
>   > buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the 
> website
>   > and as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I
>   > found that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did.
>   > So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same
>   > type of thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes 
> Windows
>   > and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of 
> months
>   > and telling WE and Windows goodby.
>   > ___
>   > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
> author
>   > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>   >
>   > For membership options, visit
>   > 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jbrandly%40shaw.ca.
>   > For subscription options, visit
>   > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>   > List archives can be found at
>   > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>   > ___
>   > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
> author
>   > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>   >
>   > For membership options, visit
>   > 
> 

RE: Recent server crash

[Michael via Talk]

No.  After I sent an e-mail to technical support explaining the issue, Dave 
called me back later yesterday and told me that there was a hardware failure.  

Mike M. 

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+massey52=q@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf 
Of Brenda via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:30 PM
To: joseph.nor...@gmail.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List 

Subject: Re: Recent server crash

do you think the downtime is because they were moving the server from Ft. Wayne 
to Florida or Vermont?


Just a thought,

brenda


On 4/4/2017 4:44 PM, via Talk wrote:
> Hi listers:
>
> I notice the server used for Window-eyes related things was down for at least 
> a day or so.
>
> Since it came back up today, I thought nothing of it.  Until I noticed that 
> some apps didn’t update to their latest versions.  Further checking reveals 
> that they must have brought it up from an older backup copy.  Checking for 
> updates tells you that Window-Eyes 9.4 is the latest version.  Looking at the 
> www.gwmicro.com web site also says that Window-Eyes 9.4 is now available.
>
> Looks like they may have had a major hard-drive crash or something.
>
> Anyway, just be aware that you may not get the latest version of some apps if 
> they were updated after 9.4 of W.E. was released.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
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> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
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Re: makeing the switch

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

Loy,
Yes. Mac OS is a full blown operating system like Windows while iOS is a 
slimmed down mobile OS designed to run on the mini computers it's 
designed for.

Regards,
Tom


On 4/4/2017 5:59 PM, Loy via Talk wrote:

Is A desk top Mac OS different that on an IPad?
  - Original Message -
  From: Butch Bussen via Talk
  To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: makeing the switch


  I actually bought a used mac mini a couple years ago, maybe 3 or 4.  It
  was all just to foreign to me.  Not only is the o s different, but
  screen reader commands as well.  With no help at all, it was just to
  much for me these days to start from scratch.  It isn't at all like
  windows, so you're starting from the ground up.  I'm to old, fat, and
  lazy to do that these days.
  73
  Butch
  WA0VJR
  Node 3148
  Wallace, ks.


  On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Janet Brandly via Talk
  wrote:

  > Hi Tony,
  > I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing
  > the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple
  > product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences
  > as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd be
  > interested in following your adventures.
  >
  >
  > Janet
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
  > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
  > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  > Subject: makeing the switch
  >
  > Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for
  > several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise 
of
  > Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the
  > switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time
  > to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini
  > and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites
  > using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t
  > accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just
  > so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with 
my
  > thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen
  > reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all
  > those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes
  > “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the
  > truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on
  > Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they
  > are and who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW
  > back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and 
myself
  > started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t
  > do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told
  > me it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my
  > buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the 
website
  > and as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I
  > found that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did.
  > So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same
  > type of thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows
  > and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months
  > and telling WE and Windows goodby.
  > ___
  > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
  > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >
  > For membership options, visit
  > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jbrandly%40shaw.ca.
  > For subscription options, visit
  > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
  > List archives can be found at
  > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
  > ___
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  > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >
  > For membership options, visit
  > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/butchb%40shellworld.net.
  > For subscription options, visit
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  >
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RE: makeing the switch

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Andy,

Here's an Apple page about transferring PC data to the Mac:

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201553

hth,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Andy Baracco via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:54 PM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 

Subject: Re: makeing the switch

i have heard and read this argument before. It may have held some water in 
the past, but not today. For one thing, most of us already have a computer, 
and have likely already paid for a screen reader, or had one purchased for 
them. So that savings that would come from buying the Mac does not apply. 
Also, today we have a free screen reader available in NVDA. I replaced a 
computer in 2012, and again this year. In both instances I considered a Mac, 
but in both instances when I did the math, it came out the same. I would be 
spending double to get a Mac with the same specs as a Windows machine that 
would be to my liking. Even a Mac Mini with decent specs would run me almost 
$1200.
Also, i have read that Apple's development of Voiceover for the Mac has been 
lagging over the last few years, and many who switch to the Mac find that 
they either have to also maintain a Windows PC for some tasks, or they have 
to install Windows on their Mac and either run a dual boot system or run 
Windows under a virtual machine. Also, if, like me, you have large amounts 
of data stored on external hard drives that have been formatted under 
Windows, you will not be able to transfer files to and from those devices 
with your Mac, thus again having to maintain another windows machine or 
running Windows on your Mac.
So i again purchased a Windows PC.

Andy

- Original Message - 
From: "Tony C via Talk" 
To: "Evan Reese" ; "Window-Eyes Discussion List" 

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: makeing the switch


>I just priced an I Mac at $1099. Hell, Jaws will cost you more than that, 
>and then try and get tech support without being made to feel like you’re an 
>idiot by their people. Thanks but no thanks
>
> -Original Message- 
> From: Evan Reese via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 12:02 PM
> To: Charles Adkins ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: makeing the switch
>
> For me at least, the expense of a new PC plus the expense of having to
> switch to JAWS if WE goes under, might very well equal or exceed the 
> expense
> of a new Mac.
> Evan
>
> -Original Message- 
> From: Charles Adkins via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 12:51 PM
> To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: makeing the switch
>
> The only thing  that keeps me from switching is the expense of a mac and I
> am obligated to use Windows at work at the radio station. I must admit
> though that I use my desktops less and do most things on my Iphone. Again
> its the big expense with Macs that does not make it easier to switch for 
> me.
> in fact, I'm using my iPhone to type this message.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Janet Brandly via Talk 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely 
>> nearing the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to 
>> an Apple product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about 
>> your experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different 
>> screen-reader, I'd be interested in following your adventures.
>>
>>
>> Janet
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: makeing the switch
>>
>> Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
>> several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent 
>> demise of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be 
>> making the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems 
>> that it’s time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone 
>> or my I pad mini and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, 
>> and other websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t 
>> because the sites aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows 
>> PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back and think of all the money I 
>> spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. When I think of the money 
>> I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the built in screen 
>> reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that were called 
>> by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I may 
>> catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO 
>> thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do 
>> business with them, 

Re: making the switch

[Brenda via Talk]

To read pop-up dialogs like at my bank (well, until today when it 
wouldn't read)


I think I use cntrl-shift-w and then press w again quickly while holding 
cntrl-shift.



Isn't cntrl-shift-escape the command to get the task manager?


could be the bank has  changed something - times are changing, W-E is not.


brenda


On 4/4/2017 1:54 PM, net bat via Talk wrote:

w e, is falling way behind since they were taken over.
i hope its just because they are waiting for windows 10 creator to 
come out.

***
pop up dialogs that don't speak, even when useing shift control escape 
to read them.

its worse with windows 10
includeing the u a c.
buttons that don't say what they are. like with itunes when i want to 
hide the apps i don't want to show in the perchased list.
not being able to open the firefox bookmark list with control i 
without w e hanghing. i have to turn auto load and browse mode off 
before i open it. then w e will not hang.
not being able to get the food prices when useing the safeway.com site 
to buy groceries. it only says price and price in the search results. 
i have to turn brows mode off on every item in the list to get the 
prices.
i can not even use the delivery schedual because i don't know where i 
am in the list.

nvda works for all of these issues.
my speach synth neo speech  and ivona keeps re reading web page text 
over and over again with read to end. speech stops where ever there is 
several blank lines between paragraphs.  this happens with notepad, 
adobe reader, firefox,wlm and i e 11.
i have to keep pressing the read to end keys to continue reading the 
pages.

this started when browse mode was re written a few years ago.
it does this with both windows 7 and 10.
the only synth that does not do this is elaquence reed. it will read 
to the end of the pages non stop.

i can use both synths with nvda and this does not happen.
the list goes on and on.


-Original Message- From: Jim via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 7:16 AM
To: Brian Moore ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: making the switch

 Brian, Like you I have been a long-time user of WE, unlike you though,
I really do not seem to be experiencing the difficulties with WE. I
would be interested in knowing just what it is that WE no longer does
efficiently.  I have for the most part found each subsequent release of
WE to be considerably improved.  Oh, there are a few things that I would
like to see it do, but those things I cannot do with NVDA or Narator
either. Just curious as to your issues with WE?

THANKS and Have A Good 1! de
.
On 04-Apr-17 10:00, Brian Moore via Talk wrote:
Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While 
I still use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web 
browsing and working with email which is something I do a lot of 
everyday.  I have gone back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased 
in performance since version 7. While there have been some steps 
forward certainly, there have also been a lot more frequent lock ups 
and things which just won't read.  At this point, I have uninstalled 
it from all but one of my machines and use NVDA pretty much all the 
time.  Sure, it was a learning curve and there are still some things 
I would argue that we does far better but nvda for me is very very 
stable and doesn't lock up or crash nearly as much as we was doing.  
I have not even tried it on windows 10.



Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my 
upgrade online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for 
some third party to order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth 
the head ache anymore..



I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy 
customer but 9.1 will be the last version I own.



Brian.


On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system 
can be.


Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.
And

yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read 
are

smaller.

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would 
all be

seriously looking at Narrator.

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while. And
others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, 
which

puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the

Re: Recent server crash

[Brenda via Talk]

do you think the downtime is because they were moving the server from 
Ft. Wayne to Florida or Vermont?



Just a thought,

brenda


On 4/4/2017 4:44 PM, via Talk wrote:

Hi listers:

I notice the server used for Window-eyes related things was down for at least a 
day or so.

Since it came back up today, I thought nothing of it.  Until I noticed that 
some apps didn’t update to their latest versions.  Further checking reveals 
that they must have brought it up from an older backup copy.  Checking for 
updates tells you that Window-Eyes 9.4 is the latest version.  Looking at the 
www.gwmicro.com web site also says that Window-Eyes 9.4 is now available.

Looks like they may have had a major hard-drive crash or something.

Anyway, just be aware that you may not get the latest version of some apps if 
they were updated after 9.4 of W.E. was released.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: makeing the switch

[net bat via Talk]

if things are still the same apple can read a windows formatted drive if you 
use fat32 instead of the ntfs? format.


-Original Message- 
From: Andy Baracco via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 6:54 PM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

i have heard and read this argument before. It may have held some water in
the past, but not today. For one thing, most of us already have a computer,
and have likely already paid for a screen reader, or had one purchased for
them. So that savings that would come from buying the Mac does not apply.
Also, today we have a free screen reader available in NVDA. I replaced a
computer in 2012, and again this year. In both instances I considered a Mac,
but in both instances when I did the math, it came out the same. I would be
spending double to get a Mac with the same specs as a Windows machine that
would be to my liking. Even a Mac Mini with decent specs would run me almost
$1200.
Also, i have read that Apple's development of Voiceover for the Mac has been
lagging over the last few years, and many who switch to the Mac find that
they either have to also maintain a Windows PC for some tasks, or they have
to install Windows on their Mac and either run a dual boot system or run
Windows under a virtual machine. Also, if, like me, you have large amounts
of data stored on external hard drives that have been formatted under
Windows, you will not be able to transfer files to and from those devices
with your Mac, thus again having to maintain another windows machine or
running Windows on your Mac.
So i again purchased a Windows PC.

Andy

- Original Message - 
From: "Tony C via Talk" 

To: "Evan Reese" ; "Window-Eyes Discussion List"

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: makeing the switch


I just priced an I Mac at $1099. Hell, Jaws will cost you more than that, and 
then try and get tech support without being made to feel like you’re an idiot 
by their people. Thanks but no thanks


-Original Message- 
From: Evan Reese via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 12:02 PM
To: Charles Adkins ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

For me at least, the expense of a new PC plus the expense of having to
switch to JAWS if WE goes under, might very well equal or exceed the expense
of a new Mac.
Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Charles Adkins via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 12:51 PM
To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

The only thing  that keeps me from switching is the expense of a mac and I
am obligated to use Windows at work at the radio station. I must admit
though that I use my desktops less and do most things on my Iphone. Again
its the big expense with Macs that does not make it easier to switch for me.
in fact, I'm using my iPhone to type this message.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Janet Brandly via Talk 
 wrote:


Hi Tony,

I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd 
be interested in following your adventures.



Janet

-Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach 
an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have 
no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using 
Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t 
accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I 
can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my 
thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen 
reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all 
those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes 
“inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth 
none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen 
readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and 
who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 
1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself 
started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t 
do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s 

Re: makeing the switch

[Andy Baracco via Talk]

i have heard and read this argument before. It may have held some water in 
the past, but not today. For one thing, most of us already have a computer, 
and have likely already paid for a screen reader, or had one purchased for 
them. So that savings that would come from buying the Mac does not apply. 
Also, today we have a free screen reader available in NVDA. I replaced a 
computer in 2012, and again this year. In both instances I considered a Mac, 
but in both instances when I did the math, it came out the same. I would be 
spending double to get a Mac with the same specs as a Windows machine that 
would be to my liking. Even a Mac Mini with decent specs would run me almost 
$1200.
Also, i have read that Apple's development of Voiceover for the Mac has been 
lagging over the last few years, and many who switch to the Mac find that 
they either have to also maintain a Windows PC for some tasks, or they have 
to install Windows on their Mac and either run a dual boot system or run 
Windows under a virtual machine. Also, if, like me, you have large amounts 
of data stored on external hard drives that have been formatted under 
Windows, you will not be able to transfer files to and from those devices 
with your Mac, thus again having to maintain another windows machine or 
running Windows on your Mac.

So i again purchased a Windows PC.

Andy

- Original Message - 
From: "Tony C via Talk" 
To: "Evan Reese" ; "Window-Eyes Discussion List" 


Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: makeing the switch


I just priced an I Mac at $1099. Hell, Jaws will cost you more than that, 
and then try and get tech support without being made to feel like you’re an 
idiot by their people. Thanks but no thanks


-Original Message- 
From: Evan Reese via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 12:02 PM
To: Charles Adkins ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

For me at least, the expense of a new PC plus the expense of having to
switch to JAWS if WE goes under, might very well equal or exceed the 
expense

of a new Mac.
Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Charles Adkins via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 12:51 PM
To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

The only thing  that keeps me from switching is the expense of a mac and I
am obligated to use Windows at work at the radio station. I must admit
though that I use my desktops less and do most things on my Iphone. Again
its the big expense with Macs that does not make it easier to switch for 
me.

in fact, I'm using my iPhone to type this message.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Janet Brandly via Talk 
 wrote:


Hi Tony,

I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely 
nearing the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to 
an Apple product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about 
your experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different 
screen-reader, I'd be interested in following your adventures.



Janet

-Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent 
demise of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be 
making the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems 
that it’s time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone 
or my I pad mini and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, 
and other websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t 
because the sites aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows 
PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back and think of all the money I 
spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. When I think of the money 
I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the built in screen 
reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that were called 
by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I may 
catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO 
thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do 
business with them, because of who they are and who they are connected 
with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws 
up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself started building a web 
site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing 
with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me it was because 
the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window 
eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website and as I got 
used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I found that 
WE 

Re: making the switch

[Josh Kennedy via Talk]

yes talkback works with netflix very good and it also works with the app 
store very good also.



Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On April 4, 2017 21:02:06 "net bat"  wrote:


does talkback work with netflix or the android app store?
i only tried it with the chrome browser last year and i couldn't evenuse the
app store to download apps.


-Original Message-
From: Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:05 PM
To: Charles Adkins ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: making the switch

it is an RCA galileo pro you can get at walmart for $80. It runs android
6.0. It runs the talkback screen reader. It has a physical keyboard you
can put the tablet on top of and then it becomes a hinged laptop.
talkback has a good number of keyboard commands.



On 4/4/2017 7:02 PM, Charles Adkins wrote:

just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in learning
more about them.

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk
 wrote:

I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo
pro android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go
almost anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over the
system. And I like playing with different apps from the app store, using
different voices such as acapela voices, playing games such as crafting
kingdom and pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and watching netflix
and using other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with my apple tv box using
a very nice app called tubio.


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Re: making the switch

[Portia Scott via Talk]

Yes it does.
> On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:01 PM, net bat via Talk  
> wrote:
> 
> does talkback work with netflix or the android app store?
> i only tried it with the chrome browser last year and i couldn't evenuse the 
> app store to download apps.
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Joshua Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:05 PM
> To: Charles Adkins ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: making the switch
> 
> it is an RCA galileo pro you can get at walmart for $80. It runs android
> 6.0. It runs the talkback screen reader. It has a physical keyboard you
> can put the tablet on top of and then it becomes a hinged laptop.
> talkback has a good number of keyboard commands.
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/4/2017 7:02 PM, Charles Adkins wrote:
>> just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in learning 
>> more about them.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo 
>>> pro android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go 
>>> almost anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over the 
>>> system. And I like playing with different apps from the app store, using 
>>> different voices such as acapela voices, playing games such as crafting 
>>> kingdom and pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and watching netflix 
>>> and using other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with my apple tv box 
>>> using a very nice app called tubio.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>> 
>>> For membership options, visit 
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cadkins6739%40gmail.com.
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> 
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> 
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Re: making the switch

[net bat via Talk]

does talkback work with netflix or the android app store?
i only tried it with the chrome browser last year and i couldn't evenuse the 
app store to download apps.



-Original Message- 
From: Joshua Kennedy via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:05 PM
To: Charles Adkins ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: making the switch

it is an RCA galileo pro you can get at walmart for $80. It runs android
6.0. It runs the talkback screen reader. It has a physical keyboard you
can put the tablet on top of and then it becomes a hinged laptop.
talkback has a good number of keyboard commands.



On 4/4/2017 7:02 PM, Charles Adkins wrote:
just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in learning 
more about them.


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
 wrote:


I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo 
pro android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go 
almost anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over the 
system. And I like playing with different apps from the app store, using 
different voices such as acapela voices, playing games such as crafting 
kingdom and pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and watching netflix 
and using other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with my apple tv box using 
a very nice app called tubio.



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Re: making the switch

[Portia Scott via Talk]

Oh, okay. I will have to investigate this tablet again, when I next go on 
Amazon. As I no longer have an android phone as my primary, this would be 
awesome for me. That way I can still use all my apps, LOL.

Anyway, take care.

Blessed be,

Portia.
> On Apr 4, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Josh Kennedy  wrote:
> 
> oh yes it is definitely worth it I think. in fact I am writing these emails 
> to you using my tablet right now.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent with AquaMail for Android
> http://www.aqua-mail.com
> 
> 
> On April 4, 2017 20:24:51 Portia Scott  wrote:
> 
>> I know this topic is OT, but you can also pick this up at Amazon as well. 
>> Was going to get one, but wasn't sure if it was worth it.
>> 
>> Portia.
>>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> it is an RCA galileo pro you can get at walmart for $80. It runs android 
>>> 6.0. It runs the talkback screen reader. It has a physical keyboard you can 
>>> put the tablet on top of and then it becomes a hinged laptop. talkback has 
>>> a good number of keyboard commands.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/4/2017 7:02 PM, Charles Adkins wrote:
 just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in 
 learning more about them.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo 
> pro android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go 
> almost anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over 
> the system. And I like playing with different apps from the app store, 
> using different voices such as acapela voices, playing games such as 
> crafting kingdom and pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and 
> watching netflix and using other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with 
> my apple tv box using a very nice app called tubio.
> 
> 
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> 
> For membership options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cadkins6739%40gmail.com.
> For subscription options, visit 
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>> 
>>> For membership options, visit 
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Re: making the switch

[Josh Kennedy via Talk]

oh yes it is definitely worth it I think. in fact I am writing these emails 
to you using my tablet right now.




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On April 4, 2017 20:24:51 Portia Scott  wrote:

I know this topic is OT, but you can also pick this up at Amazon as well. 
Was going to get one, but wasn't sure if it was worth it.


Portia.
On Apr 4, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
 wrote:


it is an RCA galileo pro you can get at walmart for $80. It runs android 
6.0. It runs the talkback screen reader. It has a physical keyboard you can 
put the tablet on top of and then it becomes a hinged laptop. talkback has 
a good number of keyboard commands.




On 4/4/2017 7:02 PM, Charles Adkins wrote:
just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in 
learning more about them.


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
 wrote:


I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo 
pro android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go 
almost anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over the 
system. And I like playing with different apps from the app store, using 
different voices such as acapela voices, playing games such as crafting 
kingdom and pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and watching netflix 
and using other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with my apple tv box 
using a very nice app called tubio.



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Re: making the switch

[Portia Scott via Talk]

I know this topic is OT, but you can also pick this up at Amazon as well. Was 
going to get one, but wasn't sure if it was worth it.

Portia.
> On Apr 4, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
>  wrote:
> 
> it is an RCA galileo pro you can get at walmart for $80. It runs android 6.0. 
> It runs the talkback screen reader. It has a physical keyboard you can put 
> the tablet on top of and then it becomes a hinged laptop. talkback has a good 
> number of keyboard commands.
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/4/2017 7:02 PM, Charles Adkins wrote:
>> just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in learning 
>> more about them.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo 
>>> pro android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go 
>>> almost anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over the 
>>> system. And I like playing with different apps from the app store, using 
>>> different voices such as acapela voices, playing games such as crafting 
>>> kingdom and pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and watching netflix 
>>> and using other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with my apple tv box 
>>> using a very nice app called tubio.
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>> 
>>> For membership options, visit 
>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/cadkins6739%40gmail.com.
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Re: making the switch

[Josh Kennedy via Talk]

Hi Dave,
I am in fact, totally blind. Talkback is a great screen reader built into 
the RCA android tablets if you are, like me, totally blind. and if you have 
a braille display that is bluetooth you can install brailleback and use 
braille, and install soft braille keyboard and write braille on the touch 
screen. I really really like my $80 tablet a whole lot and it is the RCA 
galileo pro.


Josh


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On April 4, 2017 20:14:16 Dave  wrote:


Hello Joshua,

Are you Totally Blind, or are you able to use some vision while
operating your Android Tablet?

I keep thinking of getting a Tablet, mostly because Android systems seem
to be affordable, rather than something from Apple that isn't.What's
a New Apple I-Pad going for these days?More than $80.


Grumpy Dave


--
Dave 




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Re: making the switch

[Dave via Talk]

Hello Joshua,

Are you Totally Blind, or are you able to use some vision while
operating your Android Tablet?  

I keep thinking of getting a Tablet, mostly because Android systems seem
to be affordable, rather than something from Apple that isn't.What's
a New Apple I-Pad going for these days?More than $80.  


Grumpy Dave


-- 
Dave 

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RE: windows screen readers

[via Talk]

Hi:

NVDA is probably the best free option for the PC.  Narrator is still nowhere 
near as responsive as NVDA.

On the Mac, VoiceOver is unbelievably responsive, considering the high-quality 
Alex speech synthesizer shipping with the Mac.  It does take a learning curve, 
but, there is a tutorial which comes up the first time you use VoiceOver that 
gives you the basic commands and ways to practice them.  VoiceOver takes a 
different approach, but, once you learn it, you can do the same things you do 
on a PC.

I hope to get a Mac again, one day.  Right now, I am using a PC, but, I don’t 
regret my Mac purchase, when I had the option.


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 6:26 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: windows screen readers

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good. 
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.


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Re: windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

I'm not tired of paying for screen readers. I'm tired of paying for screen 
readers that are out performed by free one's.


-Original Message- 
From: Joshua Kennedy via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:26 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: windows screen readers

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good.
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.


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Re: making the switch

[Joshua Kennedy via Talk]

it is an RCA galileo pro you can get at walmart for $80. It runs android 
6.0. It runs the talkback screen reader. It has a physical keyboard you 
can put the tablet on top of and then it becomes a hinged laptop. 
talkback has a good number of keyboard commands.




On 4/4/2017 7:02 PM, Charles Adkins wrote:

just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in learning 
more about them.

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
 wrote:

I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo pro 
android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go almost 
anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over the system. And 
I like playing with different apps from the app store, using different voices 
such as acapela voices, playing games such as crafting kingdom and pirates and 
traders, and pontes game zone and watching netflix and using other tv apps. My 
tablet even interacts with my apple tv box using a very nice app called tubio.


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Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

[Charles Adkins via Talk]

I myself I'm using the latest on the wise the latest iTunes with windows 10, 
not happy with it at all.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Russ,
> 
> One that I know of, and that's me. (smile)
> Only as much as I need to, though.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Rod
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On Behalf Of Russ Kiehne via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 10:09 AM
> To: CJ  MAY ; 'Dave' ; 
> 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
> Subject: Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.
> 
> I would be interested in knowing, how many people are using itunes 12.6 with 
> windows 10 and window-eyes?
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: CJ  MAY via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:34 AM
> To: 'Dave' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.
> 
> I frequently purchase songs via Itunes using my phone, which allows me to
> hear a section before purchasing. I rarely have any problems.
> 
> I don't use the Itunes website on my pc but do keep all my music in Itunes
> which then enables me to share the song I've purchased with my Iphone but
> also on other devices.
> 
> 
> 
> Alison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: making the switch

[Charles Adkins via Talk]

just curious, what kind of tablet is this? I would be interested in learning 
more about them.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Joshua Kennedy via Talk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA galileo pro 
> android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I can go almost 
> anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking over the system. 
> And I like playing with different apps from the app store, using different 
> voices such as acapela voices, playing games such as crafting kingdom and 
> pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and watching netflix and using 
> other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with my apple tv box using a very 
> nice app called tubio.
> 
> 
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RE: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Russ,

One that I know of, and that's me. (smile)
Only as much as I need to, though.

Best,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Russ Kiehne via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 10:09 AM
To: CJ  MAY ; 'Dave' ; 
'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Subject: Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

I would be interested in knowing, how many people are using itunes 12.6 with 
windows 10 and window-eyes?

-Original Message- 
From: CJ  MAY via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:34 AM
To: 'Dave' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

I frequently purchase songs via Itunes using my phone, which allows me to
hear a section before purchasing. I rarely have any problems.

I don't use the Itunes website on my pc but do keep all my music in Itunes
which then enables me to share the song I've purchased with my Iphone but
also on other devices.



Alison





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making the switch

[Joshua Kennedy via Talk]

I am very happy making the switch for the most part to my $80 RCA 
galileo pro android marshmallow tablet laptop hybrid. I love the fact I 
can go almost anywhere on the web without fear of windows viruses taking 
over the system. And I like playing with different apps from the app 
store, using different voices such as acapela voices, playing games such 
as crafting kingdom and pirates and traders, and pontes game zone and 
watching netflix and using other tv apps. My tablet even interacts with 
my apple tv box using a very nice app called tubio.



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RE: Lost the use of shift key

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Kevin,

Yes, and I even wrote a knowledge base article a while back about this (smile):

http://www.gwmicro.com/Support/Knowledge_Base/?kbnumber=GWKB2042

Thanks,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Kevin Huber via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:01 AM
To: Debra hernstrom ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 

Subject: Re: Lost the use of shift key

Hi Debra and Rod:

Where I work, when I test systems before they are sent out to clients
to make sure that the screen reader works properly, I go to the
control panel under languages or whereever it is and I change those
hotkeys or turn them off.  I have instructed our tech people to do the
same.
Kevin Huber

On 4/3/17, Debra hernstrom via Talk  wrote:
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone hello,
> How do I regain the use of the shift key on a windows 10 computer latest
> version of window eyes.
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making the switch

[Joshua Kennedy via Talk]

hi

I use an RCA galileo pro tablet with physical keyboard magnetic keyboard 
dock as a secondary in case this 10 year old laptop dies. The galileo 
pro runs android 6.0 marshmallow. I find websites load faster and work 
better than they do on the computer. And for $80 united states dollars 
you can't beat that. And if I want I can detach the screen from the 
keyboard and just use it as a plain old touch screen tablet. But usually 
I keep it attached to the keyboard in laptop mode because talkback has a 
lot of handy keyboard shortcuts that I use.



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windows screen readers

[Joshua Kennedy via Talk]

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good. 
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.



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Re: makeing the switch

[Tony C via Talk]

yes, it is different, but there is a pretty good built in tutorial, that my 
friend used and in less than 3 weeks she I pretty proficient with her Mac 
book aire.


-Original Message- 
From: Loy via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 4:59 PM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

Is A desk top Mac OS different that on an IPad?
 - Original Message - 
 From: Butch Bussen via Talk

 To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:24 PM
 Subject: Re: makeing the switch


 I actually bought a used mac mini a couple years ago, maybe 3 or 4.  It
 was all just to foreign to me.  Not only is the o s different, but
 screen reader commands as well.  With no help at all, it was just to
 much for me these days to start from scratch.  It isn't at all like
 windows, so you're starting from the ground up.  I'm to old, fat, and
 lazy to do that these days.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Janet Brandly via Talk
 wrote:

 > Hi Tony,
 > I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely 
nearing
 > the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an 
Apple
 > product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences

 > as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd be
 > interested in following your adventures.
 >
 >
 > Janet
 >
 > -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
 > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
 > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
 > Subject: makeing the switch
 >
 > Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for
 > several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent 
demise of
 > Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making 
the
 > switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s 
time
 > to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad 
mini
 > and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other 
websites

 > using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t
 > accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just
 > so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left 
with my
 > thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a 
screen
 > reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with 
all

 > those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes
 > “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the
 > truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on
 > Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who 
they
 > are and who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and 
JFW
 > back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and 
myself
 > started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I 
couldn’t
 > do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support 
told

 > me it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my
 > buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the 
website
 > and as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. 
I

 > found that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did.
 > So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the 
same
 > type of thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes 
Windows
 > and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of 
months

 > and telling WE and Windows goodby.
 > ___
 > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author

 > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
 >
 > For membership options, visit
 > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jbrandly%40shaw.ca.

 > For subscription options, visit
 > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 > List archives can be found at
 > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 > ___
 > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author

 > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
 >
 > For membership options, visit
 > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/butchb%40shellworld.net.

 > For subscription options, visit
 > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 > List archives can be found at
 > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 >
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Re: makeing the switch

[Tony C via Talk]

I just priced an I Mac at $1099. Hell, Jaws will cost you more than that, 
and then try and get tech support without being made to feel like you’re an 
idiot by their people. Thanks but no thanks


-Original Message- 
From: Evan Reese via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 12:02 PM
To: Charles Adkins ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

For me at least, the expense of a new PC plus the expense of having to
switch to JAWS if WE goes under, might very well equal or exceed the expense
of a new Mac.
Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Charles Adkins via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 12:51 PM
To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

The only thing  that keeps me from switching is the expense of a mac and I
am obligated to use Windows at work at the radio station. I must admit
though that I use my desktops less and do most things on my Iphone. Again
its the big expense with Macs that does not make it easier to switch for me.
in fact, I'm using my iPhone to type this message.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Janet Brandly via Talk 
 wrote:


Hi Tony,

I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, 
I'd be interested in following your adventures.



Janet

-Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise 
of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making 
the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s 
time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I 
pad mini and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other 
websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the 
sites aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE 
on it just so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to 
be left with my thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent 
maintaining a screen reader, and now the built in screen reader with the 
IOS works great with all those websites that were called by tech support 
for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack 
for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve 
cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with 
them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. I started 
out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 
when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE 
user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and 
Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder 
I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. 
I started using WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began 
using is more and more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of 
the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window 
eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of thing has happened, 
except this time is between Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I 
will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and telling WE and 
Windows goodby.

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Re: making the switch

[Tony C via Talk]

I'm not in a big hurry.I want to learn the Mac anyway, but WE works maybe 
"fair" with windows 10, and that is being generous. There's been an ongoing 
issue with WLM for the last 6 years and it still barely works with WLM. 
Being loyal is one thing being dumb enough to keep buying SMA's and then 
everytime you have an issue , it's always the same issue in the end. They 
tell you it's a   Windows problem or the website isn't accessible. That 
doesn't fly when you can use that very website with NVDA, etc



gmail.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: making the switch

w e, is falling way behind since they were taken over.
i hope its just because they are waiting for windows 10 creator to come out.
***
pop up dialogs that don't speak, even when useing shift control escape to 
read

them.
its worse with windows 10
includeing the u a c.
buttons that don't say what they are. like with itunes when i want to hide 
the

apps i don't want to show in the perchased list.
not being able to open the firefox bookmark list with control i without w e
hanghing. i have to turn auto load and browse mode off before i open it. 
then w

e will not hang.
not being able to get the food prices when useing the safeway.com site to 
buy
groceries. it only says price and price in the search results. i have to 
turn

brows mode off on every item in the list to get the prices.
i can not even use the delivery schedual because i don't know where i am in 
the

list.
nvda works for all of these issues.
my speach synth neo speech  and ivona keeps re reading web page  text over 
and

over again with read to end. speech stops where ever there is several blank
lines between paragraphs.  this happens with notepad, adobe reader, 
firefox,wlm

and i e 11.
i have to keep pressing the read to end keys to continue reading the pages.
this started when browse mode was re written a few years ago.
it does this with both windows 7 and 10.
the only synth that does not do this is elaquence reed. it will read to the 
end

of the pages non stop.
i can use both synths with nvda and this does not happen.
the list goes on and on.


-Original Message- 
From: Jim via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 7:16 AM
To: Brian Moore ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: making the switch

 Brian, Like you I have been a long-time user of WE, unlike you though,
I really do not seem to be experiencing the difficulties with WE.  I
would be interested in knowing just what it is that WE no longer does
efficiently.  I have for the most part found each subsequent release of
WE to be considerably improved.  Oh, there are a few things that I would
like to see it do, but those things I cannot do with NVDA or Narator
either. Just curious as to your issues with WE?

THANKS and Have A Good 1! de
.
On 04-Apr-17 10:00, Brian Moore via Talk wrote:
Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While I 
still use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web browsing 
and working with email which is something I do a lot of everyday.  I have 
gone back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased in performance since 
version 7. While there have been some steps forward certainly, there have 
also been a lot more frequent lock ups and things which just won't read. 
At this point, I have uninstalled it from all but one of my machines and 
use NVDA pretty much all the time.  Sure, it was a learning curve and 
there are still some things I would argue that we does far better but nvda 
for me is very very stable and doesn't lock up or crash nearly as much as 
we was doing.  I have not even tried it on windows 10.



Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my upgrade 
online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for some third party 
to order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth the head ache 
anymore..



I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy customer 
but 9.1 will be the last version I own.



Brian.


On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can be.

Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
smaller.

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
seriously looking at Narrator.

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and 

Re: makeing the switch

[Loy via Talk]

Is A desk top Mac OS different that on an IPad?
  - Original Message - 
  From: Butch Bussen via Talk 
  To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: makeing the switch


  I actually bought a used mac mini a couple years ago, maybe 3 or 4.  It 
  was all just to foreign to me.  Not only is the o s different, but 
  screen reader commands as well.  With no help at all, it was just to 
  much for me these days to start from scratch.  It isn't at all like 
  windows, so you're starting from the ground up.  I'm to old, fat, and 
  lazy to do that these days.
  73
  Butch
  WA0VJR
  Node 3148
  Wallace, ks.


  On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Janet Brandly via Talk 
  wrote:

  > Hi Tony,
  > I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
  > the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
  > product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences 
  > as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd be 
  > interested in following your adventures.
  >
  >
  > Janet
  >
  > -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
  > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
  > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
  > Subject: makeing the switch
  >
  > Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
  > several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise 
of 
  > Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the 
  > switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time 
  > to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini 
  > and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites 
  > using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t 
  > accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just 
  > so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with 
my 
  > thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen 
  > reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with 
all 
  > those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes 
  > “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the 
  > truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on 
  > Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they 
  > are and who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW 
  > back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and 
myself 
  > started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t 
  > do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told 
  > me it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my 
  > buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the 
website 
  > and as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I 
  > found that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. 
  > So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same 
  > type of thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows 
  > and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months 
  > and telling WE and Windows goodby.
  > ___
  > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author 
  > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >
  > For membership options, visit 
  > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jbrandly%40shaw.ca.
  > For subscription options, visit 
  > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
  > List archives can be found at 
  > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com 
  > ___
  > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author 
  > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >
  > For membership options, visit 
  > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/butchb%40shellworld.net.
  > For subscription options, visit 
  > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
  > List archives can be found at 
  > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
  >
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No Promotional E-mails

[Darrell Gusner via Talk]

On 3/21/2017 11:06 AM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote:

I'm curious how accessible it is as an alternative to what I'm using now.



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Re: Recent server crash

[Chris Skarstad via Talk]

Yep, this is correct, what i've done is downloaded the most current 
copies of some scripts I use every day, just in case i need to 
re-install them later on.  I had an issue with some scripts and I 
uninstalled them, but realized afterwords i couldn't find an 
installation file for them.  So, I had to wait til the server came back 
up.  AppGet, refused to function during the downtime.









On 4/4/2017 4:44 PM, via Talk wrote:

Hi listers:

I notice the server used for Window-eyes related things was down for at least a 
day or so.

Since it came back up today, I thought nothing of it.  Until I noticed that 
some apps didn’t update to their latest versions.  Further checking reveals 
that they must have brought it up from an older backup copy.  Checking for 
updates tells you that Window-Eyes 9.4 is the latest version.  Looking at the 
www.gwmicro.com web site also says that Window-Eyes 9.4 is now available.

Looks like they may have had a major hard-drive crash or something.

Anyway, just be aware that you may not get the latest version of some apps if 
they were updated after 9.4 of W.E. was released.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Recent server crash

[via Talk]

Hi listers:

I notice the server used for Window-eyes related things was down for at least a 
day or so.

Since it came back up today, I thought nothing of it.  Until I noticed that 
some apps didn’t update to their latest versions.  Further checking reveals 
that they must have brought it up from an older backup copy.  Checking for 
updates tells you that Window-Eyes 9.4 is the latest version.  Looking at the 
www.gwmicro.com web site also says that Window-Eyes 9.4 is now available.

Looks like they may have had a major hard-drive crash or something.

Anyway, just be aware that you may not get the latest version of some apps if 
they were updated after 9.4 of W.E. was released.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: makeing the switch

[Tony C via Talk]

I'm going to keep my windows 10 PC, but I'm getting rid of my windows 8.1 
PC.


-Original Message- 
From: Bob Tinney via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 10:03 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

I'm not making the switch.  I use WE, NVDA, and Narrator.  I'm also
waiting to see what WE will do with the Creators edition.

Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net

On 4/4/2017 10:17 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
The big test will be when windows 10 Creators update is released.  Will 
window-eyes work with it?


-Original Message- From: Loy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:16 AM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

WE is not dead yet. It still works great for me  and they still respond to 
a support question, although this is not as good as it used to be.

 - Original Message -  From: Tony C via Talk
 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 6:04 AM
 Subject: makeing the switch


 Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise 
of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making 
the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s 
time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I 
pad mini and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other 
websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the 
sites aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE 
on it just so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to 
be left with my thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent 
maintaining a screen reader, and now the built in screen reader with the 
IOS works great with all those websites that were called by tech support 
for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack 
for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve 
cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with 
them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. I started 
out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 
when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE 
user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and 
Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder 
I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. 
I started using WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began 
using is more and more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of 
the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window 
eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of thing has happened, 
except this time is between Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I 
will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and telling WE and 
Windows goodby.

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Re: Windows screen readers

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like, 
touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to 
me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it 
isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the 
same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody 
should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch 
5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue, 
4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn. 
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on turn 
on voice over and have fun.


-Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

 Tony,

 I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past
 year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I
 feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt
 that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
 Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not
 work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated
 there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, particularly
 web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all
 platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC
 and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched
 back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or poor
 web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility
 have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be
 tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know if
 the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web
 sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that
 Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with
 a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to
 determine where problems exist.

 I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

 Best regards,

 Steve Jacobson

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk
 [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
 Subject: Windows screen readers

 Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for
 several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve
 been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone
 can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the
 first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person
 can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix
 with no problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen reader as
 opposed to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use
 Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told me it
 isn’t accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my I
 Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I don’t get
 it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and they
 can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
 ___
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Re: Windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn. 
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on turn 
on voice over and have fun.


-Original Message- 
From: Don H via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past 
year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I 
feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt 
that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and 
Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not 
work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated 
there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, particularly 
web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all 
platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC 
and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched 
back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or poor 
web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility 
have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be 
tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know if 
the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web 
sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that 
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with 
a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to 
determine where problems exist.


I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony C via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been 
a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is 
they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to 
Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no 
problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed 
to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my 
PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told me it isn’t 
accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini 
and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I don’t get it, 
support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and they can’t 
make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???

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Re: makeing the switch

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

I actually bought a used mac mini a couple years ago, maybe 3 or 4.  It 
was all just to foreign to me.  Not only is the o s different, but 
screen reader commands as well.  With no help at all, it was just to 
much for me these days to start from scratch.  It isn't at all like 
windows, so you're starting from the ground up.  I'm to old, fat, and 
lazy to do that these days.

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue, 4 Apr 2017, Janet Brandly via Talk 
wrote:



Hi Tony,
I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your experiences 
as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd be 
interested in following your adventures.



Janet

-Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of 
Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the 
switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time 
to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini 
and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites 
using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t 
accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just 
so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my 
thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen 
reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all 
those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes 
“inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the 
truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on 
Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they 
are and who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW 
back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself 
started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t 
do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told 
me it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my 
buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website 
and as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I 
found that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. 
So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same 
type of thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows 
and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months 
and telling WE and Windows goodby.

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Re: making the switch

[net bat via Talk]

w e, is falling way behind since they were taken over.
i hope its just because they are waiting for windows 10 creator to come out.
***
pop up dialogs that don't speak, even when useing shift control escape to read 
them.

its worse with windows 10
includeing the u a c.
buttons that don't say what they are. like with itunes when i want to hide the 
apps i don't want to show in the perchased list.
not being able to open the firefox bookmark list with control i without w e 
hanghing. i have to turn auto load and browse mode off before i open it. then w 
e will not hang.
not being able to get the food prices when useing the safeway.com site to buy 
groceries. it only says price and price in the search results. i have to turn 
brows mode off on every item in the list to get the prices.
i can not even use the delivery schedual because i don't know where i am in the 
list.

nvda works for all of these issues.
my speach synth neo speech  and ivona keeps re reading web page  text over and 
over again with read to end. speech stops where ever there is several blank 
lines between paragraphs.  this happens with notepad, adobe reader, firefox,wlm 
and i e 11.

i have to keep pressing the read to end keys to continue reading the pages.
this started when browse mode was re written a few years ago.
it does this with both windows 7 and 10.
the only synth that does not do this is elaquence reed. it will read to the end 
of the pages non stop.

i can use both synths with nvda and this does not happen.
the list goes on and on.


-Original Message- 
From: Jim via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 7:16 AM
To: Brian Moore ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: making the switch

 Brian, Like you I have been a long-time user of WE, unlike you though,
I really do not seem to be experiencing the difficulties with WE.  I
would be interested in knowing just what it is that WE no longer does
efficiently.  I have for the most part found each subsequent release of
WE to be considerably improved.  Oh, there are a few things that I would
like to see it do, but those things I cannot do with NVDA or Narator
either. Just curious as to your issues with WE?

THANKS and Have A Good 1! de
.
On 04-Apr-17 10:00, Brian Moore via Talk wrote:
Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While I still 
use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web browsing and 
working with email which is something I do a lot of everyday.  I have gone 
back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased in performance since version 
7. While there have been some steps forward certainly, there have also been a 
lot more frequent lock ups and things which just won't read.  At this point, 
I have uninstalled it from all but one of my machines and use NVDA pretty 
much all the time.  Sure, it was a learning curve and there are still some 
things I would argue that we does far better but nvda for me is very very 
stable and doesn't lock up or crash nearly as much as we was doing.  I have 
not even tried it on windows 10.



Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my upgrade 
online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for some third party to 
order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth the head ache anymore..



I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy customer but 
9.1 will be the last version I own.



Brian.


On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can be.

Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
smaller.

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
seriously looking at Narrator.

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while. And
others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, which
puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.

So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, and
what you actually need the system to do for you.

Grumpy Dave


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Re: makeing the switch

[Nick Sarames via Talk]

Charles, can you e-mail me off list, regarding your work? Thanks.

Nick Sarames

On 4/4/2017 12:51 PM, Charles Adkins via Talk wrote:
> The only thing  that keeps me from switching is the expense of a mac and I am 
> obligated to use Windows at work at the radio station. I must admit though 
> that I use my desktops less and do most things on my Iphone. Again its the 
> big expense with Macs that does not make it easier to switch for me. in fact, 
> I'm using my iPhone to type this message.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Janet Brandly via Talk 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
>> the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
>> product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
>> experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd 
>> be interested in following your adventures.
>>
>>
>> Janet
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: makeing the switch
>>
>> Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
>> years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
>> Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
>> I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach 
>> an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have 
>> no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using 
>> Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t 
>> accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I 
>> can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my 
>> thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen 
>> reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all 
>> those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes 
>> “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth 
>> none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen 
>> readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and 
>> who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 
>> 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself 
>> started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t 
>> do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me 
>> it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy 
>> with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website and 
>> as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I found 
>> that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 
>> 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of 
>> thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows and 
>> Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and 
>> telling WE and Windows goodby.
>> ___
>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
>> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
>> For membership options, visit 
>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jbrandly%40shaw.ca.
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>>
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>
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Re: makeing the switch

[Evan Reese via Talk]

For me at least, the expense of a new PC plus the expense of having to 
switch to JAWS if WE goes under, might very well equal or exceed the expense 
of a new Mac.

Evan

-Original Message- 
From: Charles Adkins via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 12:51 PM
To: Janet Brandly ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

The only thing  that keeps me from switching is the expense of a mac and I 
am obligated to use Windows at work at the radio station. I must admit 
though that I use my desktops less and do most things on my Iphone. Again 
its the big expense with Macs that does not make it easier to switch for me. 
in fact, I'm using my iPhone to type this message.


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Janet Brandly via Talk 
 wrote:


Hi Tony,

I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, 
I'd be interested in following your adventures.



Janet

-Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise 
of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making 
the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s 
time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I 
pad mini and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other 
websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the 
sites aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE 
on it just so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to 
be left with my thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent 
maintaining a screen reader, and now the built in screen reader with the 
IOS works great with all those websites that were called by tech support 
for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack 
for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve 
cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with 
them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. I started 
out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 
when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE 
user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and 
Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder 
I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. 
I started using WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began 
using is more and more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of 
the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window 
eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of thing has happened, 
except this time is between Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I 
will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and telling WE and 
Windows goodby.

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Re: makeing the switch

[Charles Adkins via Talk]

The only thing  that keeps me from switching is the expense of a mac and I am 
obligated to use Windows at work at the radio station. I must admit though that 
I use my desktops less and do most things on my Iphone. Again its the big 
expense with Macs that does not make it easier to switch for me. in fact, I'm 
using my iPhone to type this message. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2017, at 12:14 PM, Janet Brandly via Talk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tony,
> 
> I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
> the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
> product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your experiences 
> as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd be 
> interested in following your adventures.
> 
> 
> Janet
> 
> -Original Message- From: Tony C via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: makeing the switch
> 
> Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
> years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
> Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
> I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach an 
> old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have no 
> problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using Voice 
> Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I 
> think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back 
> and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. 
> When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the 
> built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that 
> were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know 
> I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO 
> thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do 
> business with them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. 
> I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 
> 2004 when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a 
> WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and 
> Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder I 
> was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. I 
> started using WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began using 
> is more and more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of the box” 
> with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. 
> now I’m sad to say that the same type of thing has happened, except this time 
> is between Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my 
> first Mac in a couple of months and telling WE and Windows goodby.
> ___
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> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
> 
> For membership options, visit 
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Re: makeing the switch

[bj colt via Talk]

Hi Janis,

I would hold off going to mac just yet. I read a few minutes ago that Apple 
are going to be bringing out new apple products, pc, laptop etc. My 
information came from a reputable source. The Guardian newspaper


Live long and prosper, John

-Original Message- 
From: Janet Brandly via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 5:14 PM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

Hi Tony,

I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing
the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple
product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your
experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd
be interested in following your adventures.


Janet

-Original Message- 
From: Tony C via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch.
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach
an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have
no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using
Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t
accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I
can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my
thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen
reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all
those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes
“inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth
none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen
readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and
who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in
1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself
started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t
do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me
it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy
with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website and
as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I found
that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in
2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of
thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows and
Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and
telling WE and Windows goodby.
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Re: makeing the switch

[Janet Brandly via Talk]

Hi Tony,

I totally agree and am in a similar situation. My laptop is likely nearing 
the end of its lifes'an and I'm seriously considering changing to an Apple 
product for those exact reasons. If you decide to blog about your 
experiences as you adjust to doing tasks with a different screen-reader, I'd 
be interested in following your adventures.



Janet

-Original Message- 
From: Tony C via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 4:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach 
an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have 
no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using 
Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t 
accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I 
can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my 
thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen 
reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all 
those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes 
“inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth 
none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen 
readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and 
who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 
1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself 
started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t 
do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me 
it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy 
with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website and 
as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I found 
that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 
2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of 
thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows and 
Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and 
telling WE and Windows goodby.

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Re: Windows screen readers

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

Don,
I don't really know about web browsing on iOS because I seldom use it 
for that. I bought an iPad Pro 9.7 with the keyboard/case option, which 
is actually impressive for its size. I bought it with the thought that 
it could at least replace my old laptop for casual use. In general it's 
okay. I stress the word, okay. Overall I'm very disappointed in 
VoiceOver. To me it's closer to Narrator than a "real" screen reader. 
And Microsoft is on a fast track with Narrator. So who knows how long 
before it will be on par with VoiceOver.
I understand that VoiceOver has more to offer on a real Mac, but I'm not 
ready to put in all the time it would take, and in a mad rush to meet 
the return deadline, to figure it out.
But of course this is highly dependent on what you do and what you want 
out of your screen reader. And our personal preferences vary so much 
it's almost impossible to give practical advice on it.

Regards,
Tom


On 4/4/2017 9:11 AM, Don H via Talk wrote:

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the
past year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all
of what I feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many
JAWS users felt that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job,
both JAWS and Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used
while NVDA did not work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found
myself frustrated there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in
technology, particularly web site development, is really putting a
squeeze on our access on all platforms in my opinion.  I know of
people who have switched to the MAC and would never switch back, but I
also know of a few who have switched back.  Also, some of your
examples are partly due to inconsistent or poor web browser support.
People I have talked to who work on accessibility have told me that if
a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be tested with all
combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know if the page
will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web sites
even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page
with a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very
hard to determine where problems exist.

I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user
for several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and
I’ve been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime
someone can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or
Netflix the first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it
that II a person can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice
Over can use netflix with no problem. Now we are talking about a free
built in screen reader as opposed to an $895 and $1195 third party
screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and
Window eyes people have told me it isn’t accessible. However I can go
to Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini and use netflix with the
free screen reader? I mean I don’t get it, support at both Jaws and WE
have said it isn’t accessible and they can’t make their screenreaders
work with it, but IOS does???
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Re: makeing the switch

[Singing Sparrow via Talk]

To be honest with you I feel the same way.

I have been a loyal jaws, and window eyes user for over a decade and I 
am finding that Voiceover handels web content better then the windows 
screen readers now a days.


Also the cost of the screen reader in a mac is free and is also 
constantly updated and when a new Mac OS comes out you don't have to pay 
for the upgrades for the screen reader.




On 4/4/2017 5:04 AM, Tony C via Talk wrote:

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach an 
old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have no 
problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using Voice 
Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I 
think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back 
and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. 
When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the 
built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that 
were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I 
may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO 
thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do 
business with them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. I 
started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 
2004 when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE 
user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom 
Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder I was usin 
was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using 
WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began using is more and 
more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of the box” with more 
programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to 
say that the same type of thing has happened, except this time is between 
Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a 
couple of months and telling WE and Windows goodby.
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Re: makeing the switch

[Bob Tinney via Talk]

I'm not making the switch.  I use WE, NVDA, and Narrator.  I'm also 
waiting to see what WE will do with the Creators edition.


Bob, K8LR, tinn...@charter.net

On 4/4/2017 10:17 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:
The big test will be when windows 10 Creators update is released.  
Will window-eyes work with it?


-Original Message- From: Loy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:16 AM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

WE is not dead yet. It still works great for me  and they still 
respond to a support question, although this is not as good as it used 
to be.

 - Original Message -  From: Tony C via Talk
 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 6:04 AM
 Subject: makeing the switch


 Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent 
demise of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to 
be making the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it 
seems that it’s time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take 
my I phone or my I pad mini and have no problem using programs like 
Netflix, Slink, and other websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws 
say hey can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep 
one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back and think 
of all the money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. 
When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and 
now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all those 
websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes 
“inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the 
truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on 
Screen readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who 
they are and who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 
95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend 
of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE user and I 
a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom 
Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder I 
was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do 
it. I started using WE to work on the website and as I got used to it 
I began using is more and more for other things. I found that WE 
worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 
I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of 
thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows 
and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of 
months and telling WE and Windows goodby.

 ___
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Re: Lost the use of shift key

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Debra and Rod:

Where I work, when I test systems before they are sent out to clients
to make sure that the screen reader works properly, I go to the
control panel under languages or whereever it is and I change those
hotkeys or turn them off.  I have instructed our tech people to do the
same.
Kevin Huber

On 4/3/17, Debra hernstrom via Talk  wrote:
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone hello,
> How do I regain the use of the shift key on a windows 10 computer latest
> version of window eyes.
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Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Russ:

I don't use it often, but I used it yesterday to back up my iphone
and, after a little playing around, I was able to do it successfully.
Kevin Huber


On 4/4/17, Russ Kiehne via Talk  wrote:
> I would be interested in knowing, how many people are using itunes 12.6 with
>
> windows 10 and window-eyes?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CJ  MAY via Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:34 AM
> To: 'Dave' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.
>
> I frequently purchase songs via Itunes using my phone, which allows me to
> hear a section before purchasing. I rarely have any problems.
>
> I don't use the Itunes website on my pc but do keep all my music in Itunes
> which then enables me to share the song I've purchased with my Iphone but
> also on other devices.
>
>
>
> Alison
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: making the switch

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Brian:
I use the Window-eyes for Office version, and I do find that there are
some lockups and things that don't work as well, so I use NVDA for
those things.  I have Windows 10 at the office and NVDA works well
with it.  The nice thing about NVDA is, first of all, it is
open-source and several programmers around the world make
improvements.  Of course, a change or addition to the code cannot be
made without the blessing of NV-Access, but each new version that
comes out has changes that were suggested by users of the product.
Listen to the latest episode of the NVAccess podcast at:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/podcast-episode-9/
Kevin Huber
On 4/4/17, Brian Moore via Talk  wrote:
> Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While I
> still use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web
> browsing and working with email which is something I do a lot of
> everyday.  I have gone back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased in
> performance since version 7.  While there have been some steps forward
> certainly, there have also been a lot more frequent lock ups and things
> which just won't read.  At this point, I have uninstalled it from all
> but one of my machines and use NVDA pretty much all the time.  Sure, it
> was a learning curve and there are still some things I would argue that
> we does far better but nvda for me is very very stable and doesn't lock
> up or crash nearly as much as we was doing.  I have not even tried it on
> windows 10.
>
>
> Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my upgrade
> online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for some third
> party to order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth the head ache
> anymore..
>
>
> I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy customer
> but 9.1 will be the last version I own.
>
>
> Brian.
>
>
> On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:
>> Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
>> and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?
>>
>> And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
>> miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
>> how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can be.
>>
>> Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
>> things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
>> yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
>> have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
>> characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
>> smaller.
>>
>> In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
>> access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
>> seriously looking at Narrator.
>>
>> And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
>> red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while.  And
>> others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, which
>> puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
>> Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
>> user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.
>>
>> So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, and
>> what you actually need the system to do for you.
>>
>> Grumpy Dave
>>
>>
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>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>>
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>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/admin%40screenreview.org.
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>
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Re: making the switch

[Brian Moore via Talk]

Hi Jim.  the really big thing was really frequent silence when web 
browsers would get stuck.  This also happened a lot with outlook which I 
am forced to use at work.



We had the best calendar interface I have still ever seen for outlook, 
particularly when you work in a large org like I do and need to use it 
frequently but when I closed outlook, it would often go silent and I 
would have to fire up nvda to recover. Also, the lack of mouse key 
review in windows 8.1 and 10 made screen review things quite difficult.



I downloaded the free version of 9.5.4 since my licensed copy is only 
9.1 and it does seem a little better.  I would probably pay the 50 bucks 
to upgrade it but not when I have to wait for some dealer to buy it, put 
a mark up on it and then allow me to download it at some later date.  
Used to be able to order online or call up gwmicro and they would take 
my credit card number on the phone and we would be good but no longer.



I used to work at a local dealer and was their we expert and pushed it 
whenever I could but it doesn't seem quite as good to me anymore.



Brian.


On 04/04/2017 10:16 AM, Jim wrote:


 Brian, Like you I have been a long-time user of WE, unlike you 
though, I really do not seem to be experiencing the difficulties with 
WE.  I would be interested in knowing just what it is that WE no 
longer does efficiently.  I have for the most part found each 
subsequent release of WE to be considerably improved.  Oh, there are a 
few things that I would like to see it do, but those things I cannot 
do with NVDA or Narator either.  Just curious as to your issues with WE?


THANKS and Have A Good 1! de
.
On 04-Apr-17 10:00, Brian Moore via Talk wrote:
Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While 
I still use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web 
browsing and working with email which is something I do a lot of 
everyday.  I have gone back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased 
in performance since version 7. While there have been some steps 
forward certainly, there have also been a lot more frequent lock ups 
and things which just won't read.  At this point, I have uninstalled 
it from all but one of my machines and use NVDA pretty much all the 
time.  Sure, it was a learning curve and there are still some things 
I would argue that we does far better but nvda for me is very very 
stable and doesn't lock up or crash nearly as much as we was doing.  
I have not even tried it on windows 10.



Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my 
upgrade online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for 
some third party to order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth 
the head ache anymore..



I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy 
customer but 9.1 will be the last version I own.



Brian.


On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system 
can be.


Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.
And

yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read 
are

smaller.

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would 
all be

seriously looking at Narrator.

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while. And
others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, 
which

puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.

So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, 
and

what you actually need the system to do for you.

Grumpy Dave


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Re: making the switch

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

Great idea!  Also, some of us are pushing our systems to play games like 
Flight Simulator - play hard and work hard.  FS uses a different means 
whereby you actually fly the plane by issuing voice commands.  But 
that's another topic.  Point is, now that we have all this hardware, 
push it for all it's worth.  after all, it's a major investment, and 
like our sighted counterparts, we should get our money's worth.  Just my 
thoughts.--Matthew Chao





On 4/4/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can be.

Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
smaller.

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
seriously looking at Narrator.

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while.  And
others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, which
puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.

So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, and
what you actually need the system to do for you.

Grumpy Dave


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Re: making the switch

[Loy via Talk]

The only problem I have consistently is that IE stops responding, this problem 
seems to have increased in frequency, but I doubt that this is cause  by WE. I 
use email constantly all day and I never have a problem.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jim via Talk 
  To: Brian Moore ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 10:16 AM
  Subject: Re: making the switch


Brian, Like you I have been a long-time user of WE, unlike you though, 
  I really do not seem to be experiencing the difficulties with WE.  I 
  would be interested in knowing just what it is that WE no longer does 
  efficiently.  I have for the most part found each subsequent release of 
  WE to be considerably improved.  Oh, there are a few things that I would 
  like to see it do, but those things I cannot do with NVDA or Narator 
  either. Just curious as to your issues with WE?

  THANKS and Have A Good 1! de
  .
  On 04-Apr-17 10:00, Brian Moore via Talk wrote:
  > Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While I 
  > still use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web 
  > browsing and working with email which is something I do a lot of 
  > everyday.  I have gone back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased 
  > in performance since version 7. While there have been some steps 
  > forward certainly, there have also been a lot more frequent lock ups 
  > and things which just won't read.  At this point, I have uninstalled 
  > it from all but one of my machines and use NVDA pretty much all the 
  > time.  Sure, it was a learning curve and there are still some things I 
  > would argue that we does far better but nvda for me is very very 
  > stable and doesn't lock up or crash nearly as much as we was doing.  I 
  > have not even tried it on windows 10.
  >
  >
  > Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my 
  > upgrade online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for some 
  > third party to order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth the 
  > head ache anymore..
  >
  >
  > I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy 
  > customer but 9.1 will be the last version I own.
  >
  >
  > Brian.
  >
  >
  > On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:
  >> Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
  >> and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?
  >>
  >> And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
  >> miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
  >> how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can 
  >> be.
  >>
  >> Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
  >> things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
  >> yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
  >> have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
  >> characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
  >> smaller.
  >>
  >> In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
  >> access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
  >> seriously looking at Narrator.
  >>
  >> And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
  >> red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while. And
  >> others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, 
  >> which
  >> puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
  >> Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
  >> user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.
  >>
  >> So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, and
  >> what you actually need the system to do for you.
  >>
  >> Grumpy Dave
  >>
  >>
  >> ___
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  >> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >>
  >> For membership options, visit 
  >> 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/admin%40screenreview.org.
  >> For subscription options, visit 
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  >
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  > author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
  >
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  > 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/wohlggie%40gmail.com.
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  Any 

Re: Windows screen readers

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

Also, the actual CONTENT may change, depending on whether you're using 
the Mac or a Windows PC.  I've heard of instances in which those using 
Macs are steered towards higher-priced items (as Apples cost more, and, 
presumably that segment has no problem paying more) compare to PC users 
of that same site.  So, another thing to consider.--Matthew Chao







On 4/4/2017 9:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past year 
to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I feel are 
bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt that 
Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and Window-Eyes 
worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not work with it.  
While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated there with bugs as well. 
 The pace of change in technology, particularly web site development, is really 
putting a squeeze on our access on all platforms in my opinion.  I know of 
people who have switched to the MAC and would never switch back, but I also 
know of a few who have switched back.  Also, some of your examples are partly 
due to inconsistent or poor web browser support.  People I have talked to who 
work on accessibility have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it 
needs to be tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to 
know if the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web 
sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that 
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with a MAC 
as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to determine 
where problems exist.

I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been a 
faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is they 
need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to Netflix on an 
IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no problem. Now we are 
talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed to an $895 and $1195 
third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and 
Window eyes people have told me it isn’t accessible. However I can go to 
Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen 
reader? I mean I don’t get it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t 
accessible and they can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
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Re: makeing the switch

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

The big test will be when windows 10 Creators update is released.  Will 
window-eyes work with it?


-Original Message- 
From: Loy via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:16 AM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: makeing the switch

WE is not dead yet. It still works great for me  and they still respond to a 
support question, although this is not as good as it used to be.
 - Original Message - 
 From: Tony C via Talk

 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 6:04 AM
 Subject: makeing the switch


 Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise 
of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making 
the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s 
time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad 
mini and have no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other 
websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites 
aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it 
just so I can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left 
with my thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a 
screen reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great 
with all those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window 
eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the 
truth none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen 
readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and 
who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 
1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself 
started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t 
do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me 
it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy 
with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website and 
as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I found 
that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 
2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of 
thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows and 
Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and 
telling WE and Windows goodby.

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Re: making the switch

[Jim via Talk]

 Brian, Like you I have been a long-time user of WE, unlike you though, 
I really do not seem to be experiencing the difficulties with WE.  I 
would be interested in knowing just what it is that WE no longer does 
efficiently.  I have for the most part found each subsequent release of 
WE to be considerably improved.  Oh, there are a few things that I would 
like to see it do, but those things I cannot do with NVDA or Narator 
either. Just curious as to your issues with WE?


THANKS and Have A Good 1! de
.
On 04-Apr-17 10:00, Brian Moore via Talk wrote:
Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While I 
still use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web 
browsing and working with email which is something I do a lot of 
everyday.  I have gone back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased 
in performance since version 7. While there have been some steps 
forward certainly, there have also been a lot more frequent lock ups 
and things which just won't read.  At this point, I have uninstalled 
it from all but one of my machines and use NVDA pretty much all the 
time.  Sure, it was a learning curve and there are still some things I 
would argue that we does far better but nvda for me is very very 
stable and doesn't lock up or crash nearly as much as we was doing.  I 
have not even tried it on windows 10.



Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my 
upgrade online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for some 
third party to order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth the 
head ache anymore..



I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy 
customer but 9.1 will be the last version I own.



Brian.


On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can 
be.


Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
smaller.

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
seriously looking at Narrator.

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while. And
others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, 
which

puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.

So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, and
what you actually need the system to do for you.

Grumpy Dave


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Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

I would be interested in knowing, how many people are using itunes 12.6 with 
windows 10 and window-eyes?


-Original Message- 
From: CJ  MAY via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 2:34 AM
To: 'Dave' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

I frequently purchase songs via Itunes using my phone, which allows me to
hear a section before purchasing. I rarely have any problems.

I don't use the Itunes website on my pc but do keep all my music in Itunes
which then enables me to share the song I've purchased with my Iphone but
also on other devices.



Alison





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Re: making the switch

[Brian Moore via Talk]

Hi.  I am someone who started using the MAC several years ago. While I 
still use it once in a while, I don't love the experience of web 
browsing and working with email which is something I do a lot of 
everyday.  I have gone back to a pc.  In my opinion, we has decreased in 
performance since version 7.  While there have been some steps forward 
certainly, there have also been a lot more frequent lock ups and things 
which just won't read.  At this point, I have uninstalled it from all 
but one of my machines and use NVDA pretty much all the time.  Sure, it 
was a learning curve and there are still some things I would argue that 
we does far better but nvda for me is very very stable and doesn't lock 
up or crash nearly as much as we was doing.  I have not even tried it on 
windows 10.



Also, when the aisquared thing happened and I couldn't order my upgrade 
online anymore because I am in Canada so have to wait for some third 
party to order it and send it to me, it just wasn't worth the head ache 
anymore..



I have owned this product since version 3 and was a very happy customer 
but 9.1 will be the last version I own.



Brian.


On 04/04/2017 9:45 AM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can be.

Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
smaller.

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
seriously looking at Narrator.

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while.  And
others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, which
puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.

So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, and
what you actually need the system to do for you.

Grumpy Dave


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Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

How is it with using itunes file sharing?

-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 6:01 PM
To: groov...@juno.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

12.60 is my latest version on windows 7 and so far it has never crashed.
and since i found out about the shortcut keys it has been alot easier to 
use.

try control 1 through control 8 to get to the different stores.


-Original Message- 
From: Sue J. Ward via Talk

Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:44 PM
To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
Subject: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

 Hello. has anyone including the AI Squared staff really looked at the
latest version of iTunes lately? I did try the latest version and it
freezes up window eyes. I don't know why. I think in the program files
there are a lot more stuff including stuff about java so someone should
really look at this. I know the app has not been updated in a while. For
now am on an old version 12.5.5. The next version up 12.6.100 could use
fixing or at least if someone could take a look at it on their machine.
I am on a windows7 machine. I don't get it why in version 12.5.5 it
works great with no problems but in 12.6.100 it freezes and locks up my
computer. I even emailed Apple accessibility to let them know what I am
experiencing and we are talking back and forth, but so far nothing that
will resolve anything. I hope the next update will fix those issues.


Affordable Wireless Plans
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Re: makeing the switch

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Tony:

I am not pulling the plug on Window-eyes just yet.  It works well for
me, and when it doesn't, I have played with JAWS enough to know that
it seems to have improved from years ago.  The only  thing is that I
do not feel justified in paying all that money for JAWS when NVDA is
free and works well for my purposes.
I, for one, can't wait to hear that announcement that Doug will make
with in the nest few month, even though it may not be anything to jump
up and down about.
Kevin Huber

On 4/4/17, Tony C via Talk  wrote:
> Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several
> years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window
> Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch.
> I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach
> an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have
> no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using
> Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t
> accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I
> can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my
> thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen
> reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all
> those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes
> “inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth
> none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen
> readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and
> who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in
> 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself
> started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t
> do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me
> it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy
> with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website and
> as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I found
> that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in
> 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of
> thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows and
> Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and
> telling WE and Windows goodby.
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Re: making the switch

[Dave via Talk]

Well before you Unsubscribe from this list, once you have an Apple Mac,
and you've had it for a couple of months, let us know what you think?  

And my request is not coming from a, Wait till you find out how
miserable the Mac is, attitude.Not hardly.  Am very interested in
how good the Mac actually is, and just how accessible that system can be.  

Like Narrator, at first glance it seems to work well enough, it speaks
things well, and even things the other two Screen Readers do not.And
yet, Narrator is limited it what it can do, and what it can read.I
have gotten the impression that All Screen Readers have this
characteristic, but for some Readers, those Gaps in what is not read are
smaller.  

In our imperfect world of Computer Access, most of us want as much
access as possible.  Less is not a Good thing, otherwise we would all be
seriously looking at Narrator.  

And of course, everyone's Need for a Computer varies.  Some use it to
red and write Emails and a letter to Grandma once in a while.  And
others still, use their computer all day long, and quite intensely, which
puts not only the Operating System through a Vigorous Work Out, but the
Screen Reader has to attempt to read everything and Keep up with the
user who is pushing everything on the system to the breaking point.  

So, after you've had the Mac system for a while, post your thoughts, and
what you actually need the system to do for you.  

Grumpy Dave


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Re: Amazon link?

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

Have you tried
http://www.kindle.com

-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 2:59 PM
To: Van Lant, Robin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Amazon link?

I don't know what amaazon did, but I can't order books either, even
using explorer in seven.  Firefox doesn't work either.  I haven't found
a way to use amazon.smiles for books.  I go to www.amazon.com/access and
in the search box put name of book and the word kindle which generally
gets me where I want to go.
If anyone has figured out an answer to thisk, please advise.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Mon, 3 Apr
2017, Van Lant, Robin via Talk
wrote:

I used to use the m.amazon.com  but when I go to the main Amazon site, 
sometimes I hear Window Eyes say to click here to go the accessible site, 
which is different.  Then again, I can't seem to find this link when I 
want it, so I end up back to the m.amazon.com URL, which does not allow me 
to buy Kindle books.  Can someone please clarify the best URLs to use? 
Also, if I want to use Amazon Smiles, can I do so with the accessible 
version of Amazon after going to smile.amazon.com?  So confused.




Robin Van Lant | Sr. Program Manager
Strategy & Performance Management | Key Equipment Finance
720-304-1060 | robin_van_l...@key.com



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Re: Windows screen readers

[Don H via Talk]

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a 
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions 
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering 
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is 
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using 
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web 
pages.


On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past year 
to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I feel are 
bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt that 
Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and Window-Eyes 
worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not work with it.  
While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated there with bugs as well. 
 The pace of change in technology, particularly web site development, is really 
putting a squeeze on our access on all platforms in my opinion.  I know of 
people who have switched to the MAC and would never switch back, but I also 
know of a few who have switched back.  Also, some of your examples are partly 
due to inconsistent or poor web browser support.  People I have talked to who 
work on accessibility have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it 
needs to be tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to 
know if the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web 
sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that 
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with a MAC 
as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to determine 
where problems exist.

I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been a 
faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is they 
need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to Netflix on an 
IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no problem. Now we are 
talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed to an $895 and $1195 
third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and 
Window eyes people have told me it isn’t accessible. However I can go to 
Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen 
reader? I mean I don’t get it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t 
accessible and they can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
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Re: Windows Media Player

[Carol and Roger via Talk]

Hmm, I would think that mpg contains the video portion, too. Good luck.  
I hope you don't need to re-record the videos.  I will talk to my 
brother and ask him, to make sure.


Carol


On 4/3/2017 9:51 PM, Van Lant, Robin via Talk wrote:

Yes I did record in mpg format. These are movies that I watched successfully on 
my old laptop but had also backed up to an external hard drive. I had one of 
those video to computer conversion kits. I do not recall if I ever tested the 
back up files on my previous laptop to in sure that what I moved to the 
external hard drive was copied correctly, I just assumed that it did as I have 
with all my other files.

Sent from my iPhone. Please forgive the dictation or typing errors.


On Apr 3, 2017, at 7:43 PM, Nick Sarames  wrote:

I thought I had read that Media Player only plays CDs.


On 4/3/2017 9:27 PM, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote:
Hi Robin,

Perhaps you only recorded the sound.
Unless you patched a video cable from your VCR into the video port of a video 
capture card on your PC, then, that's all you would have recorded.
You would have had to record in MPG or WMV or another video file format as 
well. Sorry. (smile)

Hth,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Van Lant, Robin via Talk
Sent: Monday, April 3, 2017 5:40 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows Media Player

On my old Windows 7 laptop, I had copied some olfd VHS movies to my hard drive 
for my kids.  I would play them with Window Media Player.  I got a new Windows 
10 laptop and copied the movies from my external backup hard drive to load them 
onto this new laptop.  I went to show my kids a movie as I had done previously, 
but they are telling me there is no video on Window Media Player, just sound.  
Any ideas if there is some setting that needs to be tweaked?





Robin Van Lant | Sr. Program Manager
Strategy & Performance Management | Key Equipment Finance
720-304-1060 | robin_van_l...@key.com



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Re: makeing the switch

[Loy via Talk]

WE is not dead yet. It still works great for me  and they still respond to a 
support question, although this is not as good as it used to be.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tony C via Talk 
  To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 6:04 AM
  Subject: makeing the switch


  Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach an 
old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have no 
problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using Voice 
Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I 
think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back 
and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. 
When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the 
built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that 
were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I 
may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO 
thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do 
business with them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. I 
started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 
2004 when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE 
user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom 
Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder I was usin 
was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using 
WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began using is more and 
more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of the box” with more 
programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to 
say that the same type of thing has happened, except this time is between 
Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a 
couple of months and telling WE and Windows goodby. 
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Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

[Davy Cuppens via Talk]

I meself am not a jaws user but all my contacts using jaws have totally no 
problems with the latest itunes version.
So don't blame Apple for that! Now we'll see whether Wineyes is dead or not. 
Fear the worst.

Best regards
Davy

-Oorspronkelijk bericht- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:02 AM
To: groov...@juno.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

apple would have to start from scratch if they want to make it accessible.
its just as hard to use even with nvda.

-Original Message- 
From: Sue J. Ward via Talk

Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 5:44 PM
To: talk@lists.window-eyes.com
Subject: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

 Hello. has anyone including the AI Squared staff really looked at the
latest version of iTunes lately? I did try the latest version and it
freezes up window eyes. I don't know why. I think in the program files
there are a lot more stuff including stuff about java so someone should
really look at this. I know the app has not been updated in a while. For
now am on an old version 12.5.5. The next version up 12.6.100 could use
fixing or at least if someone could take a look at it on their machine.
I am on a windows7 machine. I don't get it why in version 12.5.5 it
works great with no problems but in 12.6.100 it freezes and locks up my
computer. I even emailed Apple accessibility to let them know what I am
experiencing and we are talking back and forth, but so far nothing that
will resolve anything. I hope the next update will fix those issues.


Affordable Wireless Plans
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Re: makeing the switch

[Lloyd Rasmussen via Talk]

Remember that VoiceOver for iOS and VoiceOver for the Mac are two different 
screen readers running with different constraints. Marco Zehe, a blind web 
developer who works for Mozilla, wrote a blog a year or so ago about why he 
was switching from the Mac back to Windows.
There are all sorts of opinions on this subject, and I don't think that any 
screader/browser combination is the best one for very long. Last summer one 
web tester I know said that the combination of NVDA with Firefox was the 
closes one could come to meeting the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines of 
the Worldwide Web Consortium. Of course that was last summer, but she was 
including Apple products in that statement.
I hope sombody fixes App Central. This is as important to the survival of 
Window-Eyes as anything else right now.




Lloyd Rasmussen, Kensington, MD
http://lras.home.sprynet.com
-Original Message- 
From: Tony C via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 6:04 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach 
an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have 
no problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using 
Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t 
accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I 
can look back and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my 
thumb up my nose. When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen 
reader, and now the built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all 
those websites that were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes 
“inaccessible”.. I know I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth 
none the less.I guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen 
readers, but I refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and 
who they are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 
1995, and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself 
started building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t 
do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told me 
it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my buddy 
with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the website and 
as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other things. I found 
that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than Jaws did. So, in 
2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say that the same type of 
thing has happened, except this time is between Window eyes Windows and 
Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a couple of months and 
telling WE and Windows goodby.

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Re: makeing the switch

[Chris G via Talk]

Hi,
What sites are accessible with VoiceOver that are not with the Windows 
screen readers? What browser were you using at the time? How long ago 
did you visit these sites?


I ran into a weird bug that apple knows about where specific links  that 
pull down information are not clickable with VoiceOver unless you 
double-tap and hold the link and select open.  Then the information 
dropps down as it should.  How many of us do that though.
This is only an issue on ios devices with VoiceOver.  The mac, Android, 
Chromebook and Windows all function as they should.


Just goes to show every screen reader has its issues.
Chris Grabowski
Mystic Access
Where the magic is in learning.
http://www.MysticAccess.com

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 Original Message 
From: Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, Apr 4, 2017 6:04 AM EST
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: makeing the switch

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for 
several years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent 
demise of Window Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to 
be making the switch. I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems 
that it’s time to teach an old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I 
phone or my I pad mini and have no problem using programs like Netflix, 
Slink, and other websites using Voice Over, that WE and Jaws say hey 
can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I think I’ll keep one of my 
Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back and think of all the 
money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. When I think of 
the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the built in 
screen reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that were 
called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know 
I may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I 
guess VFO thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I 
refuse to do business with them, because of who they are and who they 
are connected with. I started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, 
and I used Jaws up untill 2004 when a friend of mine and myself started 
building a web site, he was a WE user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do 
some of the thing with jaws and Freedom Scientific’s tech support told 
me it was because the page builder I was usin was “inaccessible”, but my 
buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using WE to work on the 
website and as I got used to it I began using is more and more for other 
things. I found that WE worked “out of the box” with more programs than 
Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to say 
that the same type of thing has happened, except this time is between 
Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first 
Mac in a couple of months and telling WE and Windows goodby.

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Re: makeing the switch

[John Covici via Talk]

You are comparing windows screen readers with the ios platform, very
different fish.  I would try the Mac before you buy, there is a 14 day
return period.  VO on the Mac is not the same as VO on an iphone, it
may or may not work depending on the website.

On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 06:04:43 -0400,
Tony C via Talk wrote:
> 
> Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
> years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
> Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
> I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach an 
> old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have no 
> problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using Voice 
> Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I 
> think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back 
> and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. 
> When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the 
> built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that 
> were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible

Re: makeing the switch

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

Well, I started with Vocal-Eyes back in the good ol' DOS days, and have 
been with them ever since.  I have a Mac, but my problem is corporate 
world uses Microsoft products, and the Office stuff for the Mac isn't 
accessible enough for my taste.--Matthew Chao





On 4/4/2017 6:04 AM, Tony C via Talk wrote:

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach an 
old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have no 
problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using Voice 
Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I 
think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back 
and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. 
When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the 
built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that 
were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I 
may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO 
thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do 
business with them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. I 
started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 
2004 when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE 
user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom 
Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder I was usin 
was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using 
WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began using is more and 
more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of the box” with more 
programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to 
say that the same type of thing has happened, except this time is between 
Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a 
couple of months and telling WE and Windows goodby.
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winamp scripts?

[john schwery via Talk]

Can someone send me the latest winamp scripts?  The web site seems to 
be down.  Thanks.



John

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makeing the switch

[Tony C via Talk]

Well, I guess I’ve fought it for as long as I can. I’ve refused for several 
years to consider switching to a Mac, but with the apparent demise of Window 
Eyes, and Jaws sucking as it always has, I’m going to be making the switch. 
I’ve been a loyal WE user since 2004, but it seems that it’s time to teach an 
old dog new tricks. lol. I can take my I phone or my I pad mini and have no 
problem using programs like Netflix, Slink, and other websites using Voice 
Over, that WE and Jaws say hey can’t because the sites aren’t accessible. I 
think I’ll keep one of my Windows PC’s with WE on it just so I can look back 
and think of all the money I spent just to be left with my thumb up my nose. 
When I think of the money I’ve spent maintaining a screen reader, and now the 
built in screen reader with the IOS works great with all those websites that 
were called by tech support for Jaws and window eyes “inaccessible”.. I know I 
may catch some flack for this, but it’s the truth none the less.I guess VFO 
thinks they’ve cornered the market on Screen readers, but I refuse to do 
business with them, because of who they are and who they are connected with. I 
started out with Windows 95 and JFW back in 1995, and I used Jaws up untill 
2004 when a friend of mine and myself started building a web site, he was a WE 
user and I a Jaws user. I couldn’t do some of the thing with jaws and Freedom 
Scientific’s tech support told me it was because the page builder I was usin 
was “inaccessible”, but my buddy with Window eyes could do it. I started using 
WE to work on the website and as I got used to it I began using is more and 
more for other things. I found that WE worked “out of the box” with more 
programs than Jaws did. So, in 2004 I became a Window eyes user. now I’m sad to 
say that the same type of thing has happened, except this time is between 
Window eyes Windows and Voice Over and Mac. I will be buying my first Mac in a 
couple of months and telling WE and Windows goodby. 
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RE: itunes really needs fixing to work with window eyes.

[CJ MAY via Talk]

I frequently purchase songs via Itunes using my phone, which allows me to
hear a section before purchasing. I rarely have any problems.

I don't use the Itunes website on my pc but do keep all my music in Itunes
which then enables me to share the song I've purchased with my Iphone but
also on other devices.

 

Alison

 

 

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Windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been a 
faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is they 
need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to Netflix on an 
IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no problem. Now we are 
talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed to an $895 and $1195 
third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and 
Window eyes people have told me it isn’t accessible. However I can go to 
Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen 
reader? I mean I don’t get it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t 
accessible and they can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
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