RE: Windows screen readers

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Don,

If you regularly call the same telephone menu, you can program pauses into the 
dialing sequence by adding a comma or two, followed by the numbers to dial, 
followed by more commas and more numbers etc.

Hth,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Donald L. Roberts via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 4:32 PM
To: net bat <net...@comcast.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Speaking of those things I don't like on the iPhone, how about when you 
make a phone call into an automated system where you have to type more 
numbers.  The keypad is hidden when the call is answered, so you have to 
tap around to unhide the keyboard to type the additional numbers.  By 
that time, the thing may have timed out and disconnected you.  I know 
that I can use headphones, but that is just another piece of junk to 
keep with you.


Having said that, I won't give up my iPhone because of the numerous 
things it can do for me including but not limited to GPS, internet 
radio, podcasts, book reading and on and on and on.

Don Roberts

On 4/6/2017 11:31 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
> one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file 
> structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't 
> even be viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.
> ***
> but. . .
> since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
> sifari browseing much easier to use.
> i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between 
> running apps.
> not to open a list of all the links on the web page.
>
> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
> To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Windows screen readers
>
> Hi Butch,
>
> I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
> I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but 
> perhaps you never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded 
> that not everyone can learn it.
> My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
> It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
> However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her 
> iPhone 6SE.
> However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, 
> the built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it 
> answers you back.
>
> With respect,
>
> Rod
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk 
> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
> Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
> Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
> To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
> Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't. Glad it
> works for you.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:
>
>> I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
>> victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up 
>> getting a
>> ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader 
>> stream
>> and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery 
>> life
>> than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
>> plextalk pocket.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
>> To: Russ Kiehne
>> Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>
>> Why do you think I have one of those?
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!
>>>
>>>  -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
>>>  To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>>  Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>>
>>>  Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
>>>  touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
>>>  me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
>>>  isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
>>>  same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years. Everybody
>>>  should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an 

Re: Windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

I've spoken with Apple about this issue, and maybe if several people alert 
them to this issue they will try to make it better in the next updates.


-Original Message- 
From: Kevin Huber via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 3:40 PM
To: Donald L. Roberts ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Hi Don:

I have run into that situation, I use my bluetooth keyboard and I use
the VO-right and left arrows to arrow between the numbers.  Of course,
you have to do this  quickly so that it doesn't time out, but it has
worked for me a majority of the time.  Sometimes, the window looses
focus, and then you have to let the call go and figure out how to get
back to the Phone app, then try again.

Kevin Huber

On 4/6/17, Donald L. Roberts via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:

Speaking of those things I don't like on the iPhone, how about when you
make a phone call into an automated system where you have to type more
numbers.  The keypad is hidden when the call is answered, so you have to
tap around to unhide the keyboard to type the additional numbers.  By
that time, the thing may have timed out and disconnected you.  I know
that I can use headphones, but that is just another piece of junk to
keep with you.


Having said that, I won't give up my iPhone because of the numerous
things it can do for me including but not limited to GPS, internet
radio, podcasts, book reading and on and on and on.

Don Roberts

On 4/6/2017 11:31 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:

one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file
structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't
even be viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.
***
but. . .
since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
sifari browseing much easier to use.
i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between
running apps.
not to open a list of all the links on the web page.

-Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Windows screen readers

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but
perhaps you never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded
that not everyone can learn it.
My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her
iPhone 6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri,
the built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it
answers you back.

With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't. Glad it
works for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:


I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up
getting a
ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader
stream
and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery
life
than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
plextalk pocket.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


 That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

 -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
 To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
 touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
 me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
 isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
 same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years. Everybody
 should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod
touch
 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue,
 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

>   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to
>   learn.
>   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn
it on
>   turn on voice over and have fun.
>
>   -Original Message- Fr

Re: Windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

My I phone at least 95 percent of the time the number pad is on the screen. 
If not in the center at the top is the number you are callling and you just 
tap that to show keypad. It can be a pain sometimes but there are some 
settings you can change to make things simpler.


-Original Message- 
From: Donald L. Roberts via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 3:31 PM
To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Speaking of those things I don't like on the iPhone, how about when you
make a phone call into an automated system where you have to type more
numbers.  The keypad is hidden when the call is answered, so you have to
tap around to unhide the keyboard to type the additional numbers.  By
that time, the thing may have timed out and disconnected you.  I know
that I can use headphones, but that is just another piece of junk to
keep with you.


Having said that, I won't give up my iPhone because of the numerous
things it can do for me including but not limited to GPS, internet
radio, podcasts, book reading and on and on and on.

Don Roberts

On 4/6/2017 11:31 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file 
structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't even 
be viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.

***
but. . .
since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
sifari browseing much easier to use.
i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between running 
apps.

not to open a list of all the links on the web page.

-Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Windows screen readers

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but perhaps 
you never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded that not 
everyone can learn it.

My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her 
iPhone 6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, the 
built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it answers you 
back.


With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't. Glad it
works for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:


I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up 
getting a
ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader 
stream

and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery life
than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
plextalk pocket.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


 That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

 -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
 To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
 touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
 me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
 isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
 same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years. Everybody
 should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod 
touch

 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue,
 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

>   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to
>   learn.
>   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn
it on
>   turn on voice over and have fun.
>
>   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
>   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad
and a
>   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile
versions
>   of a 

Re: Windows screen readers

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Don:

I have run into that situation, I use my bluetooth keyboard and I use
the VO-right and left arrows to arrow between the numbers.  Of course,
you have to do this  quickly so that it doesn't time out, but it has
worked for me a majority of the time.  Sometimes, the window looses
focus, and then you have to let the call go and figure out how to get
back to the Phone app, then try again.

Kevin Huber

On 4/6/17, Donald L. Roberts via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> Speaking of those things I don't like on the iPhone, how about when you
> make a phone call into an automated system where you have to type more
> numbers.  The keypad is hidden when the call is answered, so you have to
> tap around to unhide the keyboard to type the additional numbers.  By
> that time, the thing may have timed out and disconnected you.  I know
> that I can use headphones, but that is just another piece of junk to
> keep with you.
>
>
> Having said that, I won't give up my iPhone because of the numerous
> things it can do for me including but not limited to GPS, internet
> radio, podcasts, book reading and on and on and on.
>
> Don Roberts
>
> On 4/6/2017 11:31 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
>> one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file
>> structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't
>> even be viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.
>> ***
>> but. . .
>> since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
>> sifari browseing much easier to use.
>> i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between
>> running apps.
>> not to open a list of all the links on the web page.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
>> To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: RE: Windows screen readers
>>
>> Hi Butch,
>>
>> I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
>> I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but
>> perhaps you never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded
>> that not everyone can learn it.
>> My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
>> It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
>> However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her
>> iPhone 6SE.
>> However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri,
>> the built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it
>> answers you back.
>>
>> With respect,
>>
>> Rod
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Talk
>> [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>> Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
>> To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>> Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>
>> Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't. Glad it
>> works for you.
>> 73
>> Butch
>> WA0VJR
>> Node 3148
>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:
>>
>>> I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
>>> victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up
>>> getting a
>>> ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader
>>> stream
>>> and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery
>>> life
>>> than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
>>> plextalk pocket.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
>>> To: Russ Kiehne
>>> Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>>
>>> Why do you think I have one of those?
>>> 73
>>> Butch
>>> WA0VJR
>>> Node 3148
>>> Wallace, ks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!
>>>>
>>>>  -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
>>>>  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
>>>>  To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>>>  Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>>>
>>>>  Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
>>>>  touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just

Re: Windows screen readers

[Donald L. Roberts via Talk]

Speaking of those things I don't like on the iPhone, how about when you 
make a phone call into an automated system where you have to type more 
numbers.  The keypad is hidden when the call is answered, so you have to 
tap around to unhide the keyboard to type the additional numbers.  By 
that time, the thing may have timed out and disconnected you.  I know 
that I can use headphones, but that is just another piece of junk to 
keep with you.



Having said that, I won't give up my iPhone because of the numerous 
things it can do for me including but not limited to GPS, internet 
radio, podcasts, book reading and on and on and on.


Don Roberts

On 4/6/2017 11:31 AM, net bat via Talk wrote:
one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file 
structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't 
even be viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.

***
but. . .
since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
sifari browseing much easier to use.
i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between 
running apps.

not to open a list of all the links on the web page.

-Original Message- From: Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Windows screen readers

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but 
perhaps you never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded 
that not everyone can learn it.

My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her 
iPhone 6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, 
the built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it 
answers you back.


With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't. Glad it
works for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:


I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up 
getting a
ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader 
stream
and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery 
life

than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
plextalk pocket.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


 That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

 -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
 To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
 touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
 me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
 isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
 same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years. Everybody
 should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod 
touch

 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue,
 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

>   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to
>   learn.
>   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn 
it on

>   turn on voice over and have fun.
>
>   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
>   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad 
and a
>   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile 
versions
>   of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been 
considering
>   purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and 
wether it

>   is
>   really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been 
using
>   NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on 
some web

>   pages.
>
>   On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
> >Tony,
> >
> >   I share s

Re: Windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

You can however use the I could to store files.

-Original Message- 
From: Evan Reese via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 1:46 PM
To: net bat ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

I know, and while I like my iPad Mini 4, and I've found a lot of fun and
useful things to do with it, it does bug me that I can't view the file
system and that I can't just copy and paste files to and from it as I can
with other non-Apple devices.
It also bothers me that I can't simply pop an SD card into it it to extend
its capacity.
Still, overall, it's a great machine with a lot of capabilities.
Evan

-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 2:31 PM
To: Rod Hutton ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file
structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't even
be
viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.
***
but. . .
since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
sifari browseing much easier to use.
i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between running
apps.
not to open a list of all the links on the web page.

-Original Message- 
From: Rod Hutton via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Windows screen readers

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but perhaps you
never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded that not everyone
can learn it.
My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her iPhone
6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, the
built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it answers you
back.

With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't.  Glad it
works for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:


I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up 
getting a
ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader 
stream

and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery life
than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
plextalk pocket.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


 That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

 -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
 To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
 touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
 me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
 isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
 same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
 should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue,
 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

>   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to
>   learn.
>   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it 
> on

>   turn on voice over and have fun.
>
>   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
>   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and 
> a
>   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile 
> versions

>   of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
>   purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it
>   is
>   really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
>   NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some 
> web

>   pages.
>
> 

Re: Windows screen readers

[Evan Reese via Talk]

I know, and while I like my iPad Mini 4, and I've found a lot of fun and 
useful things to do with it, it does bug me that I can't view the file 
system and that I can't just copy and paste files to and from it as I can 
with other non-Apple devices.
It also bothers me that I can't simply pop an SD card into it it to extend 
its capacity.

Still, overall, it's a great machine with a lot of capabilities.
Evan

-Original Message- 
From: net bat via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 2:31 PM
To: Rod Hutton ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file
structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't even 
be

viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.
***
but. . .
since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
sifari browseing much easier to use.
i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between running 
apps.

not to open a list of all the links on the web page.

-Original Message- 
From: Rod Hutton via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Windows screen readers

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but perhaps you
never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded that not everyone
can learn it.
My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her iPhone
6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, the
built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it answers you 
back.


With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com]

On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't.  Glad it
works for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:


I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up 
getting a
ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader 
stream

and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery life
than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
plextalk pocket.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


 That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

 -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
 To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
 touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
 me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
 isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
 same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
 should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue,
 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

>   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to
>   learn.
>   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it 
> on

>   turn on voice over and have fun.
>
>   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
>   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and 
> a
>   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile 
> versions

>   of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
>   purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it
>   is
>   really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
>   NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some 
> web

>   pages.
>
>   On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
> >Tony,
> >
> >   I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during 
> > the

> >   past
> >   year 

Re: Windows screen readers

[net bat via Talk]

one thing i don't like about iphones is there is no access to the file 
structure to access, move, copy or delete files and folders. it can't even be 
viewed connected to a computer as a flash drive.

***
but. . .
since i found out about  the item chooser it makes
sifari browseing much easier to use.
i thought it  was the same as the app switcher to switch between running apps.
not to open a list of all the links on the web page.

-Original Message- 
From: Rod Hutton via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 11:12 AM
To: Butch Bussen ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: RE: Windows screen readers

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but perhaps you 
never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded that not everyone 
can learn it.

My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her iPhone 
6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, the 
built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it answers you back.


With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't.  Glad it
works for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:


I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up getting a
ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader stream
and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery life
than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and
plextalk pocket.

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


 That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

 -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
 To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
 touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
 me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
 isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
 same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
 should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue,
 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

>   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to
>   learn.
>   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
>   turn on voice over and have fun.
>
>   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
>   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
>   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
>   of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
>   purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it
>   is
>   really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
>   NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
>   pages.
>
>   On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
> >Tony,
> >
> >   I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the
> >   past
> >   year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of
> >  what
> >   I
> >feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users
> >felt
> >that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
> >Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did
> >not
> >work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself
> >frustrated
> >there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology,
> >particularly
> >web site development, is really putting a sque

RE: Windows screen readers

[Kurlander Richard (750000) via Talk]

Siri doesn't add or delete for  you, wish it would do that. 

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rkurlan=schools.nyc@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Rod Hutton via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2017 2:12 PM
To: Butch Bussen <but...@shellworld.net>; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: Windows screen readers

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but perhaps you 
never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded that not everyone 
can learn it.
My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her iPhone 
6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, the 
built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it answers you back.

With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't.  Glad it works 
for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:

> I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation 
> victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up getting a 
> ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader stream 
> and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery life 
> than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and 
> plextalk pocket.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
> To: Russ Kiehne
> Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
> Why do you think I have one of those?
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
> wrote:
>
>>  That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!
>>
>>  -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
>>  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
>>  To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>  Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>
>>  Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
>>  touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
>>  me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
>>  isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
>>  same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
>>  should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
>>  5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
>>  73
>>  Butch
>>  WA0VJR
>>  Node 3148
>>  Wallace, ks.
>> 
>>
>>  On Tue,
>>  4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>> 
>> >   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to 
>> >   learn.
>> >   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
>> >   turn on voice over and have fun.
>> > 
>> >   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>> >   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>> >   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> >   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>> > 
>> >   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
>> >   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
>> >   of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
>> >   purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it 
>> >   is
>> >   really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
>> >   NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
>> >   pages.
>> > 
>> >   On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>> > >Tony,
>> > > 
>> > >   I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the
>> > >   past
>> > >   year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of 
>> > >  what
>> > >   I
>> > >feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users
>> > >felt
>> > >that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs

RE: Windows screen readers

[Rod Hutton via Talk]

Hi Butch,

I'm wondering what exactly it is about touch screens you don't like.
I will admit that learning the gestures can take some time, but perhaps you 
never quite got the knack of it, and so you have concluded that not everyone 
can learn it.
My wife had quite a bit of difficulty learning it at first.
It actually took her quite some time, months, in fact.
However, having learned it, she can do whatever she needs to with her iPhone 
6SE.
However, admittedly, she does most of what she needs to using Siri, the 
built-in digital assistant, which you can just talk to and it answers you back.

With respect,

Rod

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+rod_hutton=hotmail@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:51 AM
To: Russ Kiehne <russ94...@gmail.com>
Cc: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't.  Glad it 
works for you.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:

> I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation 
> victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up getting a 
> ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader stream 
> and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery life 
> than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and 
> plextalk pocket.
>
> -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
> To: Russ Kiehne
> Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>
> Why do you think I have one of those?
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
> wrote:
>
>>  That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!
>>
>>  -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
>>  Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
>>  To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>>  Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>
>>  Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
>>  touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
>>  me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
>>  isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
>>  same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
>>  should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
>>  5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
>>  73
>>  Butch
>>  WA0VJR
>>  Node 3148
>>  Wallace, ks.
>> 
>>
>>  On Tue,
>>  4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>> 
>> >   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to 
>> >   learn.
>> >   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
>> >   turn on voice over and have fun.
>> > 
>> >   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>> >   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>> >   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> >   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>> > 
>> >   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
>> >   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
>> >   of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
>> >   purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it 
>> >   is
>> >   really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
>> >   NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
>> >   pages.
>> > 
>> >   On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>> > >Tony,
>> > > 
>> > >   I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the
>> > >   past
>> > >   year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of 
>> > >  what
>> > >   I
>> > >feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users
>> > >felt
>> > >that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
>> > >Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did
>> > >not
>> > >work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself 
>> > >frustrated
>> > >there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology,
>> > >particularly
>> &

Re: Windows screen readers

[Kevin Huber via Talk]

Hi Butch:

I was interested in what you had to say about IPads and IPhones and
stuff like that.  I have had an IPhone for just over two years and,
like you, I used to be totally lost when it came to anything with a
touch screen.  In fact, I can find my way around my IPhone  quite
well, or, at least,  well enough for my purposes.  I must admit that I
use Sery, the voice assistent and I use a bluetooth keyboard to get
from one app to another, and when you open up an app.  Most apps are
menu driven, so I have gotten used to it.
This is not to say that you should get an IPhone or anything, I agree
with you that you shouldn't have todo what other blind people are
doing,.  I just wanted to let you know that it may be easier than you
think to use an idevice.
 Kevin Huber

On 4/4/17, Butch Bussen via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote:
> Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
> touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
> me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
> isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
> same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
> should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
> 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Tue,
> 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:
>
>> Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn.
>> reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
>> turn
>> on voice over and have fun.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>> To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
>>
>> Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
>> Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
>> of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
>> purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
>> really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
>> NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
>> pages.
>>
>> On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>>>  Tony,
>>>
>>>  I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the
>>> past
>>>  year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what
>>> I
>>>  feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt
>>>  that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
>>>  Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not
>>>  work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated
>>>  there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, particularly
>>>  web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all
>>>  platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC
>>>  and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched
>>>  back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or
>>> poor
>>>  web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility
>>>  have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be
>>>  tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know
>>> if
>>>  the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web
>>>  sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example,
>>> that
>>>  Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page
>>> with
>>>  a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to
>>>  determine where problems exist.
>>>
>>>  I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.
>>>
>>>  Best regards,
>>>
>>>  Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>>  -Original Message-
>>>  From: Talk
>>>  [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>>>  Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
>>>  To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>>>  Subject: Windows screen readers
>>>
>>>  Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user
>>> for
>>>  several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve
>>>  been a faitfu

Re: Windows screen readers

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

Yes, but you get along with touch screens.  some of us don't.  Glad it 
works for you.

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Thu, 6 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne wrote:

I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation 
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up getting a 
ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader stream 
and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery life 
than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and 
plextalk pocket.


-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


 That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

 -Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
 To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
 touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
 me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
 isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
 same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
 should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
 5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
 73
 Butch
 WA0VJR
 Node 3148
 Wallace, ks.


 On Tue,
 4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

>   Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to 
>   learn.

>   reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
>   turn on voice over and have fun.
> 
>   -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk

>   Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
>   To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
>   Subject: Re: Windows screen readers
> 
>   Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a

>   Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
>   of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
>   purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it 
>   is

>   really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
>   NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
>   pages.
> 
>   On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

> >Tony,
> > 
> >   I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the

> >   past
> >   year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of 
> >  what

> >   I
> >feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users
> >felt
> >that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
> >Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did
> >not
> >work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself 
> >frustrated

> >there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology,
> >particularly
> >web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on 
> >  all
> >platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the 
> >  MAC
> >and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have 
> >  switched

> >   back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or
> >   poor
> >web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on 
> >  accessibility
> >have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to 
> >be
> >tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to 
> >  know

> >   if
> >the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in 
> >web

> >sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example,
> >   that
> >   Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page
> >   with
> >a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard 
> >  to

> >determine where problems exist.
> > 
> >I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.
> > 
> >Best regards,
> > 
> >Steve Jacobson
> > 
> >-Original Message-

> >From: Talk
> >[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> >  On

> >Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
> >Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
> >To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <tal

Re: Windows screen readers

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

I took a lot of thime thinking about if I should get a second generation 
victor reader stream when they came out or a ipad mini.  I ended up getting 
a ipad mini because it does everything I would do with a victor reader 
stream and a lot more.  It has better sound, more volume and better battery 
life than my first generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and 
plextalk pocket.


-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen

Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 8:55 AM
To: Russ Kiehne
Cc: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne
wrote:


That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue,
4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn.
 reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
 turn on voice over and have fun.

 -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
 To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
 Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
 of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
 purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
 really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
 NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
 pages.

 On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>   Tony,
>
>  I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the
>  past
>  year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of 
> what

>  I
>   feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users
>   felt
>   that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
>   Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did
>   not
>   work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated
>   there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology,
>   particularly
>   web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on 
> all
>   platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the 
> MAC
>   and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have 
> switched

>   back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or
>  poor
>   web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on 
> accessibility

>   have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be
>   tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to 
> know

>  if
>   the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web
>   sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example,
>  that
>  Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page
>  with
>   a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard 
> to

>   determine where problems exist.
>
>   I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.
>
>   Best regards,
>
>   Steve Jacobson
>
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Talk
>   [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] 
> On

>   Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
>   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>   Subject: Windows screen readers
>
>  Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user
>  for
>   several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve
>   been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone
>   can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the
>   first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a
>  person
>   can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use 
> netflix
>   with no problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen 
> reader

>  as
>  

RE: windows screen readers

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

I haven't done a lot with n v d a.  Where does one get this add on? 
Thanks.

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, via Talk wrote:


Thanks for that NVDA tip. I’ll give it a try.

Problem is that you have to know about these things.  I’ll pay more attention 
to the add-ons from now on.

Thanks!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Josh Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 12:55 PM
To: Steve Nutt; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: windows screen readers

NVDA has or has had video hooks since late 2010 if I remember correctly.
you can use the golden cursor addon to mouse around like you can in jaws.


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On April 5, 2017 12:49:29 "Steve Nutt" <st...@comproom.co.uk> wrote:


Naah, no off screen model, no video hooks.  NVDA is not great if you have to
mouse around, where apps don't have keyboard access.  Yes, it has object
view, but that's pretty poor.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: 04 April 2017 23:26
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: windows screen readers

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good.
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.


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RE: windows screen readers

[via Talk]

Thanks for that NVDA tip. I’ll give it a try.

Problem is that you have to know about these things.  I’ll pay more attention 
to the add-ons from now on.

Thanks!

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Josh Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 12:55 PM
To: Steve Nutt; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: RE: windows screen readers

NVDA has or has had video hooks since late 2010 if I remember correctly. 
you can use the golden cursor addon to mouse around like you can in jaws.


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On April 5, 2017 12:49:29 "Steve Nutt" <st...@comproom.co.uk> wrote:

> Naah, no off screen model, no video hooks.  NVDA is not great if you have to
> mouse around, where apps don't have keyboard access.  Yes, it has object
> view, but that's pretty poor.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
> On Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
> Sent: 04 April 2017 23:26
> To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
> Subject: windows screen readers
>
> hey tony and all,
>
>
> why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good.
> if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.
>
>
> ___
> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author
> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.
>
> For membership options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve%40compro
> om.co.uk.
> For subscription options, visit
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
> List archives can be found at
> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
>
>


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RE: Windows screen readers

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Well, I'm absolutely able to use my touchscreen phone when my fingers are
cold with no problems.  I even use it with gloves on too.

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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RE: windows screen readers

[Josh Kennedy via Talk]

NVDA has or has had video hooks since late 2010 if I remember correctly. 
you can use the golden cursor addon to mouse around like you can in jaws.



Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On April 5, 2017 12:49:29 "Steve Nutt"  wrote:


Naah, no off screen model, no video hooks.  NVDA is not great if you have to
mouse around, where apps don't have keyboard access.  Yes, it has object
view, but that's pretty poor.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: 04 April 2017 23:26
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Subject: windows screen readers

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good.
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.


___
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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
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om.co.uk.
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RE: windows screen readers

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Actually, Talkback is as free as NVDA, because you can download the source
code and compile it yourself if you wish.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: 05 April 2017 05:32
To: joseph.nor...@gmail.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
<talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: RE: windows screen readers

Probably the only truly free screen reader is NVDA!  Whether or not one
sends in a donation, anyone anywhere can download it, install it and use it
to one's heart's content.

All other screen readers, whether it be Talkback or VoiceOver, incur some
cost however minimal such a cost might be.  These screen readers are not
readily available to just about anyone to download, install and play with.
It is of absolute necessity that a user MUST have in his or her possession a
gadget that runs either one.  The cost of ownership is built into the final
price one pays for acquisition.  Both Talkback and VoiceOver are packaged
deals; as such, from an economic perspective, neither one is free!  

That aside, personally, if I can't get work done using Windows because my
preferred screen reader is on the CHOPPING BLOCK, I will move over to
Android!  On this platform, my choices are vast and I am NOT tied to a
stake.  I'm not at home with proprietary stuff, I enjoy playing with various
permutations!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado  


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RE: windows screen readers

[Steve Nutt via Talk]

Naah, no off screen model, no video hooks.  NVDA is not great if you have to
mouse around, where apps don't have keyboard access.  Yes, it has object
view, but that's pretty poor.

All the best

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve=comproom.co...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: 04 April 2017 23:26
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' 
Subject: windows screen readers

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good. 
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.


___
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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

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om.co.uk.
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Re: Windows screen readers

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

Why do you think I have one of those?
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 5 Apr 2017, Russ Kiehne 
wrote:



That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue,
4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


 Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn.
 reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
 turn on voice over and have fun.

 -Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
 To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

 Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
 Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
 of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
 purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
 really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
 NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
 pages.

 On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:
>   Tony,
> 
>  I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the 
>  past
>  year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what 
>  I
>   feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users 
>   felt

>   that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
>   Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did 
>   not

>   work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated
>   there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, 
>   particularly

>   web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all
>   platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC
>   and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched
>   back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or 
>  poor

>   web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility
>   have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be
>   tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know 
>  if

>   the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web
>   sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, 
>  that
>  Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page 
>  with

>   a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to
>   determine where problems exist.
> 
>   I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.
> 
>   Best regards,
> 
>   Steve Jacobson
> 
>   -Original Message-

>   From: Talk
>   [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
>   Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
>   To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
>   Subject: Windows screen readers
> 
>  Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user 
>  for

>   several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve
>   been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone
>   can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the
>   first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a 
>  person

>   can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix
>   with no problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen reader 
>  as

>   opposed to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use
>   Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told me 
>  it
>   isn’t accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my 
>   I
>   Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I don’t 
>   get
>   it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and 
>   they

>   can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
>   ___
>   Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely t

Re: Windows screen readers

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

And try using one of these touchscreens when your fingers are cold.  
Makes me want to smash these things.  One size does not fit all.--Matt, 
N1IBB.





On 4/5/2017 9:59 AM, Russ Kiehne via Talk wrote:

That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

-Original Message- From: Butch Bussen via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years. Everybody
should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue,
4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to 
learn. reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box 
turn it on turn on voice over and have fun.


-Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

 Tony,

 I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during 
the past
 year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of 
what I
 feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users 
felt

 that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
 Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA 
did not

 work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated
 there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, 
particularly

 web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all
 platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the 
MAC
 and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have 
switched
 back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent 
or poor
 web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on 
accessibility

 have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be
 tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to 
know if

 the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web
 sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for 
example, that
 Netflix is running different code when you access the very same 
page with
 a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very 
hard to

 determine where problems exist.

 I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

 Best regards,

 Steve Jacobson

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk
 [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
 Subject: Windows screen readers

 Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws 
user for

 several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve
 been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone
 can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the
 first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a 
person
 can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use 
netflix
 with no problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen 
reader as

 opposed to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use
 Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told 
me it

 isn’t accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my I
 Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I 
don’t get

 it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and they
 can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
 ___
 Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
 author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

 For membership options, visit

http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com. 


 For subscription options, visit
 http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 List archives can be found at

Re: Windows screen readers

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

That is why they have the second generation victor reader Stream!

-Original Message- 
From: Butch Bussen via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:29 AM
To: Tony C ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like,
touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to
me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it
isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the
same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody
should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch
5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue,
4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:

Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn. 
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on 
turn on voice over and have fun.


-Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

 Tony,

 I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the 
past
 year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what 
I

 feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt
 that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
 Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not
 work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated
 there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, particularly
 web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all
 platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC
 and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched
 back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or 
poor

 web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility
 have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be
 tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know 
if

 the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web
 sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, 
that
 Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page 
with

 a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to
 determine where problems exist.

 I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

 Best regards,

 Steve Jacobson

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk
 [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
 Subject: Windows screen readers

 Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user 
for

 several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve
 been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone
 can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the
 first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a 
person

 can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix
 with no problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen reader 
as

 opposed to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use
 Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told me 
it

 isn’t accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my I
 Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I don’t get
 it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and they
 can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
 ___
 Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
 author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

 For membership options, visit

http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com.
 For subscription options, visit
 http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
 List archives can be found at
 http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

 ___
 Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
 author and do not necessarily represent

Re: Windows screen readers

[Russ Kiehne via Talk]

My ipad mini 4 is my favorite device for reading books from bookshare, BARD 
and kindle, listening to old time radio shows and watching old tv shows like 
Tales of Wells Fargo, Sea hunt and more.  It now takes the place of my first 
generation victor reader stream, booksense standard and plextalk pocket.


-Original Message- 
From: Tony C via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 11:25 AM
To: Don H ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn.
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on turn
on voice over and have fun.

-Original Message- 
From: Don H via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past 
year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I 
feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt 
that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and 
Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not 
work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated 
there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, particularly 
web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all 
platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC 
and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched 
back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or poor 
web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility 
have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be 
tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know if 
the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web 
sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that 
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with 
a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to 
determine where problems exist.


I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony C via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been 
a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is 
they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to 
Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no 
problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed 
to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my 
PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told me it isn’t 
accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini 
and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I don’t get it, 
support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and they can’t 
make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com.
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http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lmddh50%40comcast.net.
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Re: windows screen readers

[Chris G via Talk]

I'm confused on your statement:
 "These screen readers are not readily available to just about anyone 
to download, install and play with.
It is of absolute necessity that a user MUST have in his or her 
possession a gadget that runs either one."


Anyone can go to the play store and download talkback on an android 
device.  If Talkback isn't installed by default and you have no access 
to the Play Store, you can have someone side load it for you.

Anyone can enable VoiceOver on either the mac or iOS to play with.
You do need an android device to use Talkback and an apple device to use 
VoiceOver, just like you need a Windows device to run Narrator, 
Window-Eyes, JAWS, SuperNova and NVDA.


NVDA isn't really free, if NVAccess doesn't get funding from either 
donations or other sources it could disappear.


Chris



Chris Grabowski
Mystic Access
Where the magic is in learning.
http://www.MysticAccess.com

Check out our eclectic and comprehensive assistive technology podcasts at:
http://www.MysticAccessPodcast.com

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 Original Message 
From: Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk
Sent: Wednesday, Apr 5, 2017 12:31 AM EST
To: joseph.nor...@gmail.com; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: windows screen readers

Probably the only truly free screen reader is NVDA!  Whether or not one
sends in a donation, anyone anywhere can download it, install it and use it
to one's heart's content.

All other screen readers, whether it be Talkback or VoiceOver, incur some
cost however minimal such a cost might be.  These screen readers are not
readily available to just about anyone to download, install and play with.
It is of absolute necessity that a user MUST have in his or her possession a
gadget that runs either one.  The cost of ownership is built into the final
price one pays for acquisition.  Both Talkback and VoiceOver are packaged
deals; as such, from an economic perspective, neither one is free!

That aside, personally, if I can't get work done using Windows because my
preferred screen reader is on the CHOPPING BLOCK, I will move over to
Android!  On this platform, my choices are vast and I am NOT tied to a
stake.  I'm not at home with proprietary stuff, I enjoy playing with various
permutations!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado


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___
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author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

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RE: windows screen readers

[Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via Talk]

Probably the only truly free screen reader is NVDA!  Whether or not one
sends in a donation, anyone anywhere can download it, install it and use it
to one's heart's content.

All other screen readers, whether it be Talkback or VoiceOver, incur some
cost however minimal such a cost might be.  These screen readers are not
readily available to just about anyone to download, install and play with.
It is of absolute necessity that a user MUST have in his or her possession a
gadget that runs either one.  The cost of ownership is built into the final
price one pays for acquisition.  Both Talkback and VoiceOver are packaged
deals; as such, from an economic perspective, neither one is free!  

That aside, personally, if I can't get work done using Windows because my
preferred screen reader is on the CHOPPING BLOCK, I will move over to
Android!  On this platform, my choices are vast and I am NOT tied to a
stake.  I'm not at home with proprietary stuff, I enjoy playing with various
permutations!

Sincerely,
Olusegun
Denver, Colorado  


---
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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

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Re: Windows screen readers

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

Tony C wrote:

Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn.
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on
turn on voice over and have fun.



Depending on what you want to do this *may* be true. Otherwise, bear in 
mind that an app pretty much either works with VoiceOver or it doesn't. 
If it doesn't there's nothing a user can do, i.e. there is no scripting 
of VoiceOver. And there is nothing Apple can do. Their policy is simple. 
Apps either support VoiceOver or they don't. End of story.
The exception is apps that sort of support VoiceOver. That is their 
developers slapped in basic support. I have apps that half work due to 
this. Some things work and some are unlabeled graphics. there are things 
I can get to but cannot execute. What fun.
And then there are simple things like whether or not an app supports 
portrait and landscape mode. I have an iPad Pro with a keyboard and 
always use it in landscape mode. There are times when it's simply much 
quicker and easier to lift my hand and work the touch screen. I have two 
apps from big name companies that do not support landscape mode. So 
those apps are always sideways on the screen and a royal pain to work 
with the touch screen.

So it's far from nirvana.
Tom
___
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RE: windows screen readers

[via Talk]

Hi:

NVDA is probably the best free option for the PC.  Narrator is still nowhere 
near as responsive as NVDA.

On the Mac, VoiceOver is unbelievably responsive, considering the high-quality 
Alex speech synthesizer shipping with the Mac.  It does take a learning curve, 
but, there is a tutorial which comes up the first time you use VoiceOver that 
gives you the basic commands and ways to practice them.  VoiceOver takes a 
different approach, but, once you learn it, you can do the same things you do 
on a PC.

I hope to get a Mac again, one day.  Right now, I am using a PC, but, I don’t 
regret my Mac purchase, when I had the option.


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Joshua Kennedy via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 6:26 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: windows screen readers

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good. 
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.


___
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Re: windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

I'm not tired of paying for screen readers. I'm tired of paying for screen 
readers that are out performed by free one's.


-Original Message- 
From: Joshua Kennedy via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 5:26 PM
To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'
Subject: windows screen readers

hey tony and all,


why not try the latest NVDA? also narrator in windows10 is quite good.
if you are tired of paying for screen readers then NVDA is a good choice.


___
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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


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Re: Windows screen readers

[Butch Bussen via Talk]

Yep, but that assumes you are comfortable with i phones and the like, 
touch screens and so forth, which I'm not.  Just doesn't make sense to 
me.  The thing most I phone users don't seem to understand is that it 
isn't easy for all of us and they're not for everyone.  But, it is the 
same old attitude I have seen among the blind for years.  Everybody 
should use what I use and my way is the only way.  I have an I pod touch 
5 or whatever it is and I am going to smash it to bits some day.

73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Tue, 
4 Apr 2017, Tony C via Talk wrote:


Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn. 
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on turn 
on voice over and have fun.


-Original Message- From: Don H via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

 Tony,

 I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past
 year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I
 feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt
 that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and
 Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not
 work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated
 there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, particularly
 web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all
 platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC
 and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched
 back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or poor
 web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility
 have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be
 tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know if
 the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web
 sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that
 Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with
 a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to
 determine where problems exist.

 I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

 Best regards,

 Steve Jacobson

 -Original Message-
 From: Talk
 [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
 Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
 Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
 To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
 Subject: Windows screen readers

 Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for
 several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve
 been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone
 can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the
 first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person
 can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix
 with no problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen reader as
 opposed to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use
 Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told me it
 isn’t accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my I
 Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I don’t get
 it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and they
 can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
 ___
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 author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

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 http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
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 http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com

 ___
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 author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

 For membership options, visit
 
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 List archiv

Re: Windows screen readers

[Tony C via Talk]

Hi, The I pad mini 21, 2, or 3 are about the same. Fairly easy to learn. 
reasonalbely priced at about $230.00 Take it out of the box turn it on turn 
on voice over and have fun.


-Original Message- 
From: Don H via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 4, 2017 8:11 AM
To: steve.jacob...@visi.com ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Windows screen readers

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past 
year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I 
feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt 
that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and 
Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not 
work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated 
there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in technology, particularly 
web site development, is really putting a squeeze on our access on all 
platforms in my opinion.  I know of people who have switched to the MAC 
and would never switch back, but I also know of a few who have switched 
back.  Also, some of your examples are partly due to inconsistent or poor 
web browser support.  People I have talked to who work on accessibility 
have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be 
tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know if 
the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web 
sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that 
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with 
a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to 
determine where problems exist.


I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk 
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On 
Behalf Of Tony C via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been 
a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is 
they need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to 
Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no 
problem. Now we are talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed 
to an $895 and $1195 third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my 
PC because both Jaws and Window eyes people have told me it isn’t 
accessible. However I can go to Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini 
and use netflix with the free screen reader? I mean I don’t get it, 
support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t accessible and they can’t 
make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???

___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.


For membership options, visit 
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___
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Re: Windows screen readers

[Tom Kingston via Talk]

Don,
I don't really know about web browsing on iOS because I seldom use it 
for that. I bought an iPad Pro 9.7 with the keyboard/case option, which 
is actually impressive for its size. I bought it with the thought that 
it could at least replace my old laptop for casual use. In general it's 
okay. I stress the word, okay. Overall I'm very disappointed in 
VoiceOver. To me it's closer to Narrator than a "real" screen reader. 
And Microsoft is on a fast track with Narrator. So who knows how long 
before it will be on par with VoiceOver.
I understand that VoiceOver has more to offer on a real Mac, but I'm not 
ready to put in all the time it would take, and in a mad rush to meet 
the return deadline, to figure it out.
But of course this is highly dependent on what you do and what you want 
out of your screen reader. And our personal preferences vary so much 
it's almost impossible to give practical advice on it.

Regards,
Tom


On 4/4/2017 9:11 AM, Don H via Talk wrote:

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web
pages.

On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the
past year to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all
of what I feel are bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many
JAWS users felt that Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job,
both JAWS and Window-Eyes worked on some older software that I used
while NVDA did not work with it.  While I like my iPhone, I have found
myself frustrated there with bugs as well.  The pace of change in
technology, particularly web site development, is really putting a
squeeze on our access on all platforms in my opinion.  I know of
people who have switched to the MAC and would never switch back, but I
also know of a few who have switched back.  Also, some of your
examples are partly due to inconsistent or poor web browser support.
People I have talked to who work on accessibility have told me that if
a web page is at all complicated, it needs to be tested with all
combinations of screen readers and web browsers to know if the page
will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web sites
even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page
with a MAC as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very
hard to determine where problems exist.

I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk
[mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On
Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user
for several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and
I’ve been a faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime
someone can’t use a certain website or something like I tunes or
Netflix the first thing is they need to fix their website. Why is it
that II a person can go to Netflix on an IOS device and using Voice
Over can use netflix with no problem. Now we are talking about a free
built in screen reader as opposed to an $895 and $1195 third party
screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and
Window eyes people have told me it isn’t accessible. However I can go
to Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini and use netflix with the
free screen reader? I mean I don’t get it, support at both Jaws and WE
have said it isn’t accessible and they can’t make their screenreaders
work with it, but IOS does???
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com.

For subscription options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
List archives can be found at
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___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the
author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/lmddh50%40comcast.net.

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Re: Windows screen readers

[Matthew Chao via Talk]

Also, the actual CONTENT may change, depending on whether you're using 
the Mac or a Windows PC.  I've heard of instances in which those using 
Macs are steered towards higher-priced items (as Apples cost more, and, 
presumably that segment has no problem paying more) compare to PC users 
of that same site.  So, another thing to consider.--Matthew Chao







On 4/4/2017 9:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past year 
to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I feel are 
bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt that 
Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and Window-Eyes 
worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not work with it.  
While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated there with bugs as well. 
 The pace of change in technology, particularly web site development, is really 
putting a squeeze on our access on all platforms in my opinion.  I know of 
people who have switched to the MAC and would never switch back, but I also 
know of a few who have switched back.  Also, some of your examples are partly 
due to inconsistent or poor web browser support.  People I have talked to who 
work on accessibility have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it 
needs to be tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to 
know if the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web 
sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that 
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with a MAC 
as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to determine 
where problems exist.

I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been a 
faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is they 
need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to Netflix on an 
IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no problem. Now we are 
talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed to an $895 and $1195 
third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and 
Window eyes people have told me it isn’t accessible. However I can go to 
Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen 
reader? I mean I don’t get it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t 
accessible and they can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com.
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For membership options, visit 
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___
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and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
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Re: Windows screen readers

[Don H via Talk]

Could the difference between accessibility on a I phone or I Pad and a 
Mac book be that the phones and I pads are running the mobile versions 
of a web site or ap and the Mac book isn't?  I have been considering 
purchasing a I Pad but just don't know which one to buy and wether it is 
really a solution to avoid having to move to JAWS.  I have been using 
NVDA and it works fairly well but too has its shortcomings on some web 
pages.


On 4/4/2017 8:02 AM, Steve Jacobson via Talk wrote:

Tony,

I share some of your frustrations.  I had to use JAWS more during the past year 
to do certain things on my job, and I was surprised at all of what I feel are 
bugs in JAWS.  It always seemed to me that many JAWS users felt that 
Window-Eyes had a monopoly on bugs.  On my job, both JAWS and Window-Eyes 
worked on some older software that I used while NVDA did not work with it.  
While I like my iPhone, I have found myself frustrated there with bugs as well. 
 The pace of change in technology, particularly web site development, is really 
putting a squeeze on our access on all platforms in my opinion.  I know of 
people who have switched to the MAC and would never switch back, but I also 
know of a few who have switched back.  Also, some of your examples are partly 
due to inconsistent or poor web browser support.  People I have talked to who 
work on accessibility have told me that if a web page is at all complicated, it 
needs to be tested with all combinations of screen readers and web browsers to 
know if the page will work.  There is often even browser-specific code in web 
sites even without accessibility.  It is very possible, for example, that 
Netflix is running different code when you access the very same page with a MAC 
as you access with a Windows browser.  This makes it very hard to determine 
where problems exist.

I hope that your switch to Apple works well for you.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Tony C via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2017 3:46 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List 
Subject: Windows screen readers

Hello, Before I say anything, let me first say that I was a Jaws user for 
several years before switching to Window Eyes back in 2004, and I’ve been a 
faitful WE user ever since. Why is it that everytime someone can’t use a 
certain website or something like I tunes or Netflix the first thing is they 
need to fix their website. Why is it that II a person can go to Netflix on an 
IOS device and using Voice Over can use netflix with no problem. Now we are 
talking about a free built in screen reader as opposed to an $895 and $1195 
third party screen readers? I can’t use Netflix on my PC because both Jaws and 
Window eyes people have told me it isn’t accessible. However I can go to 
Netflix using my I phone or my I Pad Mini and use netflix with the free screen 
reader? I mean I don’t get it, support at both Jaws and WE have said it isn’t 
accessible and they can’t make their screenreaders work with it, but IOS does???
___
Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author 
and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared.

For membership options, visit 
http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com.
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For membership options, visit 
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