Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fix my street
On 2013-07-06 15:06, Kurt Roeckx wrote : I've known about the fix my street project for some time, but I just found this: http://fixmystreet.irisnet.be/ This is apparently something that's orginaised by Brussel itself, and currently 14 of the 19 municipalities use. Has anybody tries to contact the Flemisch or Walloon government to try and do the same thing? I think this could be useful to have. Good idea indeed, especially if an application were written using OSM. So that if the place is not on the map, one may add it before notifying ;-) But before showing this as a model, it should be noted: Entrez l'adresse où se situe l'incident That some persons may not know the name of the street where funny things happened but that they are quite capable of finding their way on the map and locate the place. I find it very strange to disallow looking at the map before a street name is entered, especially to pin a marker. Comment signaler un incident Tout problème représentant un grave danger de sécurité doit être signalé à la police au numéro d'urgence 101 1. Entrez l'adresse où vous avez constaté l'incident 2. Localisez l'incident sur la carte 3. Décrivez l'incident 4. Votre incident sera envoyé au service concerné 5. Abonnez-vous pour rester informé du suivi de l'incident That I read on gov.be that a single emergency number should be used and that that number is obviously 112. I don't mind at all seeing other numbers, but like this: 112 (101). I just don't understand that obstinateness to hide the true, single, international emergency number. Do you know what number to call if an airplane falls in your backyard? 02/751 46 15. I suppose that the persons answering 112 know the 100 numbers that others would have you learn by heart. Furthermore, in most countries, you can dial urgency with a SIMless phone (as this one on my desk). Not in Belgium. The phone says you can, but you loose precious time if you try. No comment. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] MEDION® LIFE® P4013 (MD 98332)
Hi all, This (ceci or dat or das) is real OpenSteetMap software with downloadable maps. (I wonder why downloadable "via la boutique intégrée1", though. For some other apps I tested, the latest maps could be built on a Web site. I had asked advice on talk-be before, I got no reply, so I went ahead and I bought this for 70€. Except for double core, 3 years warranty and the software, exactly the same specs at ½ price. hints: if you run a Belgacom Internet (xDSL) subscription, you can: use any FON WiFi access point (hotspot) in the world "freely" (1) use 3G communication for free (1) (2) if you sign in for a SIP VOIP account somewhere, you'll enjoy the lowest phone rates anywhere Using SIP on free 3G/WiFi costs 2¢/min to phone to landlines in Belgium and 1¢/min in France, Greece etc. I did not test everything yet, but it's doable. (I didn't want to explain this later than Aldi's offer.) 3G yet to be tested. With all WiFi options, the only problem is an echo at the far side. (An echo is normal, but this one's delay seems too high to be suppressed by normal techniques) Enjoy! André. (1) the bytes you transfer are accounted for in your main subscription (2) if you want to keep your PayGo SIM card in your phone, don't try to discuss that with Belgacom/Proximus. In addition to sending you from one person to another (7 calls) they don't understand what's being talked about. I've got 2 SIM slots in my phone and I think that the best option is to pretend to have a tablet: they will send a 3G SIM and you slide it in your second slot with which mobile data communication will be made. You MUST keep a GSM SIM cards if you want to access special numbers, especially emergency ones. SIP won't reach them and will have you pay 0800 calls. The only problem is how to spend a 10€ GSM fee in one year ;-) Any lower cost anywhere? PS: Hush! Don't tell Test-Achats, only your friends ;-) En vente le 06 juillet 2013 Smartphone avec Android™ 4.0 MEDION® LIFE® P4013 (MD 98332) Processeur Processeur puissant double cœur de 1 GHz Écran Écran tactile de 10,16 cm/4" avec 16 millions de couleurs Résolution d‘écran : 480 x 800 pixels MEDION® GoPal® Outdoor-App Formats de cartes : cartes vectorielles Waypoints, itinéraires, traces coordonnées Fonction Géocaching Applications Documents to Go Saisie de texte Nuance XT9 Tester Kaspersky Mobile Security 30 jours gratuitement Appareil photo numérique intégré Appareil photo numérique avec 5 mégapixels (2.560 X 1.920 pixels) Caméra frontale Flash et autofocus Fonction vidéo Zoom numérique Transfert de données WiFi 802.11 b/g/n HSPA, UMTS, EDGE, GPRS WAP 2.0 Fonction Bluetooth 2.1 Messagerie E-mails SMS MMS Organizer Calendrier, mémo/mémo vocal, calculette, minuteur, fonction alarme/réveil Fonctions supplémentaires Google Play™ : Concevez votre monde personnel avec de nombreuses applications et beaucoup plus1 Fonction GPS Lecteur MP3, lecteur vidéo, radio FM Capacité mémoire 4 GB ROM2 512 MB RAM Slot pour cartes mémoire microSD ou
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV CRAB not usable in OSM!
On 2013-06-01 17:41, Johan C wrote : Will AGIV accept attribution on this page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors in order to use the data under ODbL? Note that a similar problem occurs when people add OSM data to Google Maps. You are free to copy, distribute, transmit and adapt our data, as long as you credit OpenStreetMap and its contributors. If you alter or build upon our data, you may distribute the result only under the same licence. ... For a browsable electronic map, the credit should appear in the corner of the map. For example: However, Google's general license http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/ is that any uploaded data becomes their property and that it's not allowed to copy it back !!! That's a blatant infringement of OSM's copyright !!! The corner of the map is obviously not applicable and the OSM source: tag must be used. But who knows where Google source tag is? It hurts me to see OSM people so meticulous and Google careless. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Address Problems and Osmose...
On 2013-05-29 07:39, Marc Gemis wrote : Why do they complain about access = no @ (weight 3.5) ? I thought this was an accepted way of tagging conditional restrictions. Is there another way ? Remember that, instead of coding all the rules that are in the Wiki, they prefer to automatically deduce some rules from what the majority of mappers do. I wonder if they analyze false positive that way too. They welcome the remarks very much. For example, there was a rule (of theirs) saying that the character code for the keys is, otherwise said, ASCII, which is indeed what the majority of keys is using. I pointed out that not only the rule is UTF-8 but that discussions insist on UTF-8. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] automatic JOSM resolution change (was: AGIV watuning)
On 2013-03-26 00:13, EeBie wrote : Ik vind de AGIV vliegtuigfoto's vrij goed werken in JOSM. Je kunt nu de wegen zien door het bos waar dat met Bing in de bladeren blijft hangen. Ik heb bij de F12 Preferences bij WMS als Service URL toegevoegd: http://wms.agiv.be/ogc/wms/omkl? en dat doet het. Het is spijtig dat de resolutie niet automatisch aangepast wordt bij het inzoomen zoals bij Bing. Ik klik met de rechtermuisknop op de AGIV-layer en kies dan resolutie wijzigen of 'native resolution'. Of kan het beter? Groeten, Erik The bug I mentioned before is just reported to be fixed in JOSM 5969. How, I don't know, just that someone wrote "Thank you!". I'd like to hear your comments about that fix as I'm somehow away from JOSM right now. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] URBis, Open!
On 2013-05-27 07:38, Jo wrote : Hi, So, UrbIS has opened all geodata for Brussels. eMerzh and me have been converting this data, so it becomes usable directly in JOSM or Merkaartor. ... Great eMerging JoB !!! André. PS: you may want to add FIXMEs or to use some other means to know what remains to merge manually. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] historic=monument
On 2013-05-23 09:44, Jo wrote : Het atomium werd gebouwd naar aanleiding van Expo 58. It was expected to last six months and to be removed at the end of the Expo :-) An atom of iron. I remember. I was a kid. Geen idee of belang heeft voor de tagging. Something similar to this, maybe, one for each ball ;-) *building:part*: yes *building:shape*: spherical http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSeaMap/Buildings#Shapes *name:xx*: Atomium *name:yy*: Atomium ... :-) *importance*: universal * *description*: Tour Eiffel 3ème étage * *level*: 3 * *name*: Tour Eiffel * *source*: www.tour-eiffel.fr * *tourism*: viewpoint * *wheelchair*: limited * *building*: yes * *building:part*: yes * *building:shape*: pyramid * *height*: 324m * *image*: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Tour_Eiffel_Wikimedia_Commons.jpg * *importance*: international * *layer*: 2 * *man_made*: tower * *name*: Tour Eiffel * *name:af*: Eiffel-toring * *name:ast*: Torre Eiffel * *name:ba*: Эйфель башняһы * *name:cs*: Eiffelova věž * *name:da*: Eiffeltårnet * *name:de*: Eiffelturm * *name:en*: Eiffel Tower * *name:es*: Torre Eiffel * *name:et*: Eiffeli torn * *name:fa*: برج ایفل * *name:fi*: Eiffel-torni * *name:hu*: Eiffel-torony * *name:id*: Menara Eiffel * *name:it*: Torre Eiffel * *name:ku*: Barûya Eyfelê * *name:la*: Turris Eiffelia * *name:lb*: Eiffeltuerm * *name:nl*: Eiffeltoren * *name:ru*: Эйфелева башня * *name:sk*: Eiffelova veža * *name:sv*: Eiffeltornet * *name:tt*: Эйфель манарасы * *name:vi*: Tháp Eiffel * *tourism*: attraction * *wikipedia*: fr:Tour Eiffel ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] URBis, Open!
On 2013-04-26 11:20, Chris Browet wrote : The Lambert72 PROJ4 string extracted from the prj is: +proj=lcc +lat_1=49.839 +lat_2=51.172333 +lat_0=90 +lon_0=4.3674866 +x_0=15.01256 +y_0=5400088.4378 +ellps=intl +units=m +no_defs And doesn't quite work. This one is ok: +proj=lcc +lat_1=51.172334 +lat_2=49.838999 +lat_0=90 +lon_0=4.3674866 +x_0=15.013 +y_0=5400088.438 +ellps=intl +towgs84=-99.1,53.3,-112.5,0.419,-0.83,1.885,-1.0 +units=m +no_defs There are 4 or 5 proj4 definitions of Lambert 72 around and bugs reports. This is the correct one, I think, that I configured Merkaartor with after much searching. Obviously, IGN/NGI should specify their projections' proj4 definitions on their site. Someone should notify them. Cheers André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Missing parent tag
On 2013-03-21 21:13, Guy Vanvuchelen wrote : In de buurt van Tienen vind ik, via Osmose, een hele hoop fouten. Het gaat om de melding ‘Missing parent tag’. Deze fout staat o.a. op Oplintersesteenweg, Dwarsstraat Tiensveld, Kopstraat, Vianderstraat, Houtemveldweg, … Een zekere kgross1, heeft waarschijnlijk met de beste bedoelingen een hoop informatie voor wegen ingebracht: Horse = yes Maxspeed = 70 Bicycle = yes Name = Oplintersesteenweg Motor_vehicle = yes Cycleway : track Access = yes _Oneway_ = no Highway = tertiary In dit geval staat er als foutmelding: Missing parent tag Way 198290500 rawedit josm +route : bicycle Kan iemand me uitleggen wat hier fout gaat en hou ik dat kan oplossen. Guy Vanvuchelen Tag parent item=2050 c i Causes A tag is specified but it must be specified in other combinations such as service=parking_aisle whith highway=service Correction Add the appropriate parent tag. It wants you to add route=bicycle It thinks that one of the existing tag needs it. But I just can't figure which and it is most probably an error. As you can see, it's not in the buurt of Tienen but in the buurt of Belgium. And it stops right at the Belgian border (we made them strong ;-)) Probably a bug. But a very funny one. Sorry for the ranting. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] FW: AGIV
On 2013-03-12 08:13, Jo wrote : Anderzijds is het wel wat vreemd dat wat JOSM in de WMS-laag laat zien duidelijk een lagere resolutie heeft, dan wat er op de website van AGIV zelf zichtbaar is. Het klinkt misschien wat ondankbaar, maar weten dat er betere kwaliteit beschikbaar is en het dan met minder duidelijke beelden moeten doen, is toch wat frustrerend. Het zou wel kunnen dat de URI die we gebruiken niet geoptimaliseerd is. Ik zal dit ook eens op josm-dev posten en dan vraag ik tegelijk hoe we ervoor kunnen zorgen dat JOSM deze laag zelf voorstelt aan mappers die data voor Vlaanderen afhalen/bewerken. I may have a look if you say which are the URLs you're comparing. The ranter. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Initial stuck to the name
On 2013-03-17 13:02, Jo wrote : Soms staat het aan de ene kant van de straat wel voluit en aan de andere kant afgekort, afhankelijk van wanneer dat bord geplaatst werd en of het crisis was op dat moment... Toch is dat geen straat met een dubbele naam. Het is niet zo moeilijk voor iemand om te zien dat een volledig geschreven naam dezelfde is als de afgekorte naam en ook voor computers is het eenvoudiger om iets te coderen dat afkort, dan iets dat correct 'expandeert'. Is St. Sint of Straat? Is r. rue of ruelle? And what is the cost of a "in" and a "ue" minus two "." beside thousands and thousands of: "cadastre-dgi-fr source : Direction Générale des Impôts - Cadastre. Mise à jour : 2012"? (using "source" and "cadastre" twice) BTW: -does anybody know why they tag that source on each and every node? How could the nodes have a source different from that of their way? - and, conversely, how, on the French border, can the source be 2012 for the way and 2011 for the nodes? - how is it possible that they split a segment of that border with one half source 2011 and the other 2012? Did they go on strike while tagging? - how is it possible that that date changing border is in places a good 20 m away from my RW source? Does it move a little bit each year unnoticed? My strongest argument is having those terms understood by foreigners. Think of trying to understand what Ул. and Г. mean. Hence what I understand the least is why dictionaries use abbreviations. (and why "abbreviation" uses one more letter than "abréviation" ;-) ) Have a nice week, Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV and wa
On 2013-03-11 15:07, Guy Vanvuchelen wrote : Zojuist stoot ik op een website van AGIV Agentschap van Geografische Informatie Vlaanderen. http://ogc.beta.agiv.be/gdiviewer/?simple=true Hier zie je luchtfoto’s (Orthofoto) die scherper zijn dan Google of Bing, maar ook de huizen (met huisnummer!) en percelen staan getekend. Ik zie nergens iets staan van enige bescherming van die gegevens maar het is waarschijnlijk te mooi om waar te zijn, dat we die zouden mogen gebruiken Similar data for Wallonie and similar questions asked for two years : cartocit1.wallonie.be/pw/ http://cartocit1.wallonie.be/pw/ webgisdgo4.spw.wallonie.be/viewer/ http://webgisdgo4.spw.wallonie.be/viewer/ geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap And an evaluation of what this data is worth (especially regarding (met huisnummer!) )... Cheers, André. On 2013-02-19 18:27, Marc Gemis wrote : André, sorry that I sound so negative about this dataset. But since it is incomplete and although the next version will be more complete, it will be incomplete again. That's the nature of this kind of data. We still need people that go out in the field to make additions and corrections. How will you cope with this ? How will you merge existing data with the imported data ? how often will you do an import ? Who decides which data is correct ? How do keep existing POI data ? Do you have a plan for this ? I seriously hope that you are an experienced programmer who has merged geographical databases in the past. Otherwise you might get a lot of complaints the day that your import has run. Success with this project and hopefully you get the data soon. Until then, go out and survey, it's healthy :-) Now if you disagree, you can *see* the data on JOSM/Merkaaartor with the following WMS configurations: http://grb.agiv.be/geodiensten/raadpleegdiensten/geocache/wmsservice? http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/services/TOPOGRAPHIE/PICC/MapServer/WMSServer? http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/services/TOPOGRAPHIE/PICC/MapServer/WMSServer?request=GetMapservice=WMSversion=1.1.1srs=EPSG:31370bbox=170139,111320,170518,111537width=512height=256styles=layers=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26format=image/png http://geoservices.wallonie.be/arcgis/services/TOPOGRAPHIE/PICC/MapServer/WMSServer?request=GetMapservice=WMSversion=1.1.1srs=EPSG:31370styles=layers=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26format=image/png ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] AGIV and wa
On 2013-03-15 21:23, A.Pirard.Papou wrote : Now if you disagree, you can see the data on JOSM/Merkaaartor with the following WMS configurations: ... Totally unrelated (disagree with what?), sorry for that. It was not intended for talk-be but to another person. Never use the bottom of a waiting message as a scratch pad for another ;-) ;-) André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM presentation on Tuesday 19th March
On 2013-03-13 21:11, Julien wrote : Hi ! I would like to discuss with the list some ideas I had for the OSM's presentation of next Tuesday. ... Good job, Julien, You may add that Wikipedia uses OSM as a choice map At least in Dutch ... (Kaart), in French ...(carte), in English Coordinates: и русский Координаты: (O) ... Regarding Neil's site, the most impressive page is this: http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc?zoom=9lat=50.76281lon=4.61149layers=B00TFT You've got 1: the OSM map, 2: a brilliant application and 3) the collaborators altogether on the same display. What is missing is a joystick and a ball to kick ;) and best of luck Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM promo
On 2013-02-26 12:07, Glenn Plas wrote : On 02/26/2013 11:20 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote: De laatste 2 links zouden nu moeten werken... Wel vreemd dat die 3 bovenste niet werken, die doen het perfect bij mij volledig uitgelogd zelfs. Verder is dit ook de reden waarom ik de flyer ook doorstuur. Ik denk dat het best is dat wel tot een gezamenlijk idee komen over wat er op moet staan. Sommige van de zaken zijn inderdaad verouderd. FYI, Ik heb geen probleem met geen enkele link uit de originele mail. (alle 5 werken) I don't have a problem accessing the files but Firefox cannot display the pictures. That's because of the server response: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:13:54 GMT Server: Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu) Last-Modified: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:14:46 GMT ETag: 29285//misc/pr_material/dutch_flyer_2013_02/gps-screenshot-442.png Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 10324 Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=100 Connection: Keep-Alive Content-Type: application/octet-stream It should be Content-Type: image/png That Apache server problem should be reported. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM promo
On 2013-02-26 14:42, Glenn Plas wrote : Hi Andre, Ik heb geen probleem met geen enkele link uit de originele mail. (alle 5 werken) I don't have a problem accessing the files but Firefox cannot display the pictures. That's because of the server response: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:13:54 GMT Server: Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu) Last-Modified: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:14:46 GMT ETag: "29285//misc/pr_material/dutch_flyer_2013_02/gps-screenshot-442.png" Accept-Ranges: bytes Content-Length: 10324 Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=100 Connection: Keep-Alive Content-Type: application/octet-stream It should be Content-Type: image/png It should download that image however instead, so it should still be able to view it albeit not directly. Firefox does, of course, propose to store the file or to launch another application to open it. But neither is the normal way to view a picture file that the browser can display itself. It's the same problem as Itinéraires touristiques balisés reconnus au 1er janvier 2012 (0,5 MB) that you can find on this page. Having to store a PDF file to view it is quite inventive. It's because the mime type is incorrect. Moreover, it's useless to put such a hike list in a PDF file but it should be in a HTML (Web) page that you can import or copy paste to an e-mail message, to an excel sheet etc... It's only normal when you request a single file from SVN http access that it sends that header. Definitely not. SVN or not, Mime type and Content-Type have been designed to identify file types ans they must be used correctly. http://svn.openstreetmap.org/misc/pr_material/dutch_flyer_2013_02/garmin_62st_empty.png is incorrect If store the same png file on my private server the same way, the header contains image/png. http://www.papou.byethost9.com/tmp/garmin_62st_empty.png is correct, and it displays the image If this png was part of a static html page, it would be sent correctly. No, the server does not know that the file is part of a HTML page. What happens is that if the broser is decoding an image ... tag or a tag that contains a mime type, it knows that it's an image or the specified mime type overrides that of the HTTP header. It's due to the fact that we're downloading it from SVN http. I don't expect SVN to build me an html page. I would be very unhappy if the persons I'm showing images that way had to store the files to view them. They probably would not look at them. It should be reported as a problem. Cheers André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM promo
On 2013-02-26 18:51, Glenn Plas wrote : Unfortunately, SVG type is text/plain, and some png files remain wrong. I don't think that is correct, according to standards: The MIME type for SVG is "image/svg+xml" (see XML Media Types [RFC3023]). I don't mean that the type of the SVG file should be text/plain, I say that it is; it should be what you say. dutch_flyer_2013_02/flyer_vertaling.txt seems to be ISO8859-1 and is displayed with UTF-8. Funny, it's usually the other way round (UTF-8 displayed as Latin). Upload txt in UTF-8. Fortunately UTF8 covers the same codepoints as the characters in ISO-8859-1 but not the other ISO-8859-x sets, so in this case it probably will not be a problem. Since there is no entry in the props list(it's not really a prop anyway) , I think UTF8 is the server default for text files, you are correct about the file type, checking the file signature confirms: glenn@byte-consult:~/svn/dutch_flyer_2013_02$ file flyer_vertaling.txt flyer_vertaling.txt: ISO-8859 English text, with CRLF line terminators No, displaying an ISO-8859-1 encoded file as if it were UTF-8 encoded gives a wrong display. é (e-acute) ISO 8859-1 : E9 (invalid under UTF-8 decoding) UTF-8 : C3A9 (displays as é under ISO-8859-1 decoding) That's because UTF-8 uses the two high order bits as flags. To have no problems, use UTF-8 everywhere. I still think that Apache is not doing its .ext-mimetype job, there, but it may be a user config pb. What do you mean exactly ? that Apache indicated text/plain when transmitting the .SVG file; same for other files. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] We have permission to add the cycle node routes around Famenne to Openstreetmap.org
On 2012-12-19 22:21, Jo wrote : I sent the following message: ... And received this answer: Famenne à Vélo 14:12 (2 uren geleden) aan *Yves-Marie*, mij Bonjour, Nous vous remercions d'avoir pris contact avec nous à ce sujet. Vous avez notre accord pour ajouter nos itinéraires tels quels à votre base de données. Bonne continuation ! Bien à vous, Mélanie Daune. So that's good news, I'd say. I added the ones I could in this changeset: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14336530 That was great news indeed, and great follow-up indeed, thanks. But if we click here http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=12lat=50.52357lon=5.63117, look at the map and then click on *Routes*. and on some routes. And then click here http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=11lat=50.22721lon=5.35737, and do the same again Doesn't it seem that these organizers deserve better thanks and advertising? Same here and around http://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=11lat=50.92581lon=4.98478route=1 in many places, BTW. Amitiés, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection and GPSsing GSMs
On 2013-02-19 05:30, Marc Gemis wrote : How up-to-date is this PICC database ? I randomly clicked on the map, and came in Orbais. There I see at least 15 houses without red rectangle. Does this mean that they are not in the database yet ? 15 houses out of how many? Where else did you see the houses? If you find out when the houses were built, then you have some answer to your question. What I can say is that no house of the very few I was interested in was missing. I determined that an aerial view they show is at least 12 years old. But the houses that are missing there are on this map. Quand on vous offre un cheval, on ne regarde pas les dents. Please note that the site is replaced by the following one. Their new maps are expectedly more up to date. But this is a warning. Compare them. If the old maps disappeared, we would lose very much. And this is a less obvious reason why it's important to get the permission to use them. Hoping this can help. Cheers, André. Le Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne est remplacé par le Géoportail de la Wallonie ! Le Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne méritait bien un petit coup de jeune. C’est désormais chose faite, puisqueson successeur est en ligne depuis peu. Découvrez dès à présent le nouveau *_Géoportail de la Wallonie http://geoportail.wallonie.be_*. En pratique : -Ne parlez plus de Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne mais de Géoportail de la Wallonie. -Remplacez vos liens pointant vers http://cartographie.wallonie.be par la nouvelle adresse http://geoportail.wallonie.be ! -Si vous ne trouvez pas sur le Géoportail de la Wallonie un contenu que vous aviez l’habitude de trouver sur l’ancien portail, n’hésitez pas à _nous contacter http://geoportail.wallonie.be/cms/home/contact.html_. -Le Portail cartographique de la Région wallonne restera encore en ligne pendant quelques mois afin de vous assurer une transition la plus douce possible. Toutefois certaines pages disposent déjà d'une redirection automatique vers le nouveau Géoportail de la Wallonie. On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:25 PM, A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: On 2013-02-18 10:51, Glenn Plas wrote : Since the meeting in Lier , I've been getting myself into the collection of housenumbers, I do have a few remarks / questions since starting this: - Accuracy of the GPS on Samsung S3 is low see 2 below. - Never trust Bing maps too much concerning aerial photo's, The deepest zoomlevel seem to be offset (where available) but also quite aged. I have mentioned many times (mailing lists and e-mail to taggers) that Bing zoom needs a per area JOSM offset correction. Its a pity to notice careful mappers devote so much time making maps offset because of Bing. - Editing takes 4 times as much time as walking the walk see 1 below (airplane speed). - Many people don't even care about hanging up their housenumbers. see 1 below. - Walking in the dark is a bad idea, and watch out for people who consider their housenumber a private property, be prepared to make a run for it. see 1 below. - Map caching does not work in OSMPAD - Always keep one eye for the road while scanning housenumbers, since they seem to define the landscape here I want to vote for the use of the tag 'barrier=dogshit', perhaps 'barrier=dogpile' for the larger concentrations. I saw people sticking little flags on dog poop but one still has to watch one's steps. There's an impressive amount of hardware http://www.befr.ebay.be/sch/i.html?LH_AvailTo=23_sop=15_ipg=200_kw=dog%20poop for that software, but nothing of what you need. Resist using bags and putting them in the letterboxes, even if that raises the discussion among the concerned people. But if you walk your own dog while prospecting numbers, you will feel the leash loosen at every danger ;-) questions - Do you know of any hardware that gives better GPS fixes and comes with the ease-of-use OSMPAD delivers on entering numbers ? - Are there any better tools/software around for this type of work on Android ? - What do you use? 1 The PICC maps http://cartocit1.wallonie.be/pw/index.jsp contains very precise building mapping with street numbers. You'll never do better than an airplane. This is one, just one, of the reasons why I say it's of paramount importance for us to be able to use PICC. People say that the government agrees to make it available but that they have no time to say yes. This is why I wait and I'm doing very limited house numbering business presently. 2 Does anyone have an opinion or recommendation about such cheap devices http://www.tinydeal.com/index.php?main_page=ws_search_resultis_search=1inc_subcat=search_in_description=3keyword=wifi
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Housenumber collection and GPSsing GSMs
On 2013-02-18 10:51, Glenn Plas wrote : Since the meeting in Lier , I've been getting myself into the collection of housenumbers, I do have a few remarks / questions since starting this: - Accuracy of the GPS on Samsung S3 is low see 2 below. - Never trust Bing maps too much concerning aerial photo's, The deepest zoomlevel seem to be offset (where available) but also quite aged. I have mentioned many times (mailing lists and e-mail to taggers) that Bing zoom needs a per area JOSM offset correction. Its a pity to notice careful mappers devote so much time making maps offset because of Bing. - Editing takes 4 times as much time as walking the walk see 1 below (airplane speed). - Many people don't even care about hanging up their housenumbers. see 1 below. - Walking in the dark is a bad idea, and watch out for people who consider their housenumber a private property, be prepared to make a run for it. see 1 below. - Map caching does not work in OSMPAD - Always keep one eye for the road while scanning housenumbers, since they seem to define the landscape here I want to vote for the use of the tag 'barrier=dogshit', perhaps 'barrier=dogpile' for the larger concentrations. I saw people sticking little flags on dog poop but one still has to watch one's steps. There's an impressive amount of hardware http://www.befr.ebay.be/sch/i.html?LH_AvailTo=23_sop=15_ipg=200_kw=dog%20poop for that software, but nothing of what you need. Resist using bags and putting them in the letterboxes, even if that raises the discussion among the concerned people. But if you walk your own dog while prospecting numbers, you will feel the leash loosen at every danger ;-) questions - Do you know of any hardware that gives better GPS fixes and comes with the ease-of-use OSMPAD delivers on entering numbers ? - Are there any better tools/software around for this type of work on Android ? - What do you use? 1 The PICC maps http://cartocit1.wallonie.be/pw/index.jsp contains very precise building mapping with street numbers. You'll never do better than an airplane. This is one, just one, of the reasons why I say it's of paramount importance for us to be able to use PICC. People say that the government agrees to make it available but that they have no time to say yes. This is why I wait and I'm doing very limited house numbering business presently. 2 Does anyone have an opinion or recommendation about such cheap devices http://www.tinydeal.com/index.php?main_page=ws_search_resultis_search=1inc_subcat=search_in_description=3keyword=wifi+gpsis_input=keyword=wifi+gpscPath=categories_id=54disp_order=3? (there are other similar shops) Usually, CN stuff is of fair quality but minimally documented and supported (e.g. no MP4 games). But that's different for Android, isn't it? 22€ means a risk of paying taxes, but, according to Test-Achats, it looks like it's only VAT. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets / 'Hoe map ik een kerk/kapel ...'
On 2013-02-16 15:10, Jo wrote : Op 16 februari 2013 14:47 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be mailto:guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be het volgende: Hallo Erik, Prachtig gedaan. Toch een kleine opmerking. Bij Kapel schrijf je in de twee kolom: amenity=place_of_worship In de derde kolom (opmerkingen) schrijf je= amenity=chapel moet dat niet: place_of_worship:type=chapel zijn? Gebruiken we voor een kruis dan ook shrine? Guy Vanvuchelen Is een kruis niet: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dwayside_cross ? Jo I have raised a discussion at tagging/2012-August/011237.html http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2012-August/011237.html. (if you can decode that stupid archive system). depending on what it is: * historic http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic=wayside_cross http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dwayside_cross * historic=wayside_shrine http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Dwayside_shrine A chapel is: * *amenity*: place_of_worship * *building*: chapel * *name*: ... * *religion*: christian church is church instead, of course. You could add denomination=* but what makes much sense in the US and somehow UK makes very little sense here. And in my case (very big shrine), I finally used * *amenity*: place_of_worship * *historic*: wayside_shrine * *name*: potale du Christ * *religion*: christian Despite comments, I used amenity because the people consider it as their poor man's chapel. And to those saying that I shouldn't use potale (something they often say) I replied that it's the way the people call it (and I thought in myself and in Walloon that using du Christ as a name ... ;-) Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Josm Presets
On 2013-02-14 13:10, Marc Gemis wrote : Hallo, I started working on a collection of presets for JOSM to improve my mapping speed. It contains a number of fixed settings, which can easily be accessed via F3. The labels are available in English and Dutch for the moment. Before uploading it to the official JOSM website, I'm looking for some volunteers to try it out. Please write eenvoudig dutch, trying my best to understand. From a copy paste addict: ;-) Error: htmlTagging preset source Essais Marc can be loaded but it contains errors. Do you really want to use it?brbrtable width=600Error is: cvc-complex-type.2.3: Element 'item' cannot have character [children], because the type's content type is element-only. (at line 73, column 12)/table/html Why not store that file on osm.org directly instead of distributing updates? Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
On 2013-02-12 10:21, Jo wrote : Ik krijg die foutmelding ook voortdurend. Back and opnieuw proberen lukt wel, al moet dat soms zelfs 2 of 3 keer. Inderdaad niet normaal. Het lijkt erop dat de server waarop de wiki draait het allemaal niet meer aan kan. Wellicht gaan ze binnenkort bij OSM ook met de hoed rond zoals bij Wikimedia... That is weird !!! I reloaded it 20 times with Firefox 15 without a single problem. And that's a refresh, of course, not getting the cache. And in the afternoon, when both US and CN are awake. *Connection to osmwAccel failed. *seems to mean that they have an internal problem. What about your downloading the DE: page? The HTML is not so long, ~1MB, size of a photo. But there's a lot of images and stuff referenced. Would the problem occur on such a reference? Sometimes a page would fail because of an ad (not) coming from a different server. Loading a small page after the error and going back will reload with the help of the cache. Deserves a ticket or does adm...@openstreetmap.org mailto:adm...@openstreetmap.org. reply? Jo 2013/2/12 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be Hier lijkt mij een service probleem, Bij mij crasht chrome(linux) zelfs op die pagina. Dat is ook niet normaal. Glenn I have upgraded to Firefox 15 because Google was commanding me to install Chrome. Cordialement, André. On 02/12/2013 09:53 AM, Ivo De Broeck wrote: ERROR The requested URL could not be retrieved The following error was encountered while trying to retrieve the URL: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a *Connection to osmwAccel failed.* The system returned: /(110) Connection timed out/ The remote host or network may be down. Please try the request again. Your cache administrator is adm...@openstreetmap.org mailto:adm...@openstreetmap.org. Generated Tue, 12 Feb 2013 08:49:32 GMT by konqi.openstreetmap.org http://konqi.openstreetmap.org (squid/2.7.STABLE9) ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
On 2013-02-11 14:49, Ivo De Broeck wrote :
Guy,
De mensen die willen helpen met vertalen hebben problemen met het
updaten van de pagina (pagina te groot?)
The least that could be said is if whether the error occurs on reading
or on writing and what the message is, if any.
I tried updates: the writing is slow indeed, but I met no problem.
I was wondering if the German people did write all that under timing
problems.
I looked for some reason and I noticed that the table in the AED entry
had no ending.
Could it have been disturbing the program and slowing down?
I corrected that AED. Please try again.
Favor using the small [edit] on the right side instead of Edit in the
heading.
Does anyone know how to make country signs in this wiki (pictures or how
to build a rectangle with e.g. BE in it with something like
{{rectangle:BE}}?
/...
Op 11 februari 2013 08:34 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen
guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be mailto:guido.vanvuche...@pandora.be
het volgende:
Of het nu een vertaling is van de Duitse, de Engelse of de Chinese
versie is, wat heeft dat voor belang.
.../
As I have already explained, Ivo did not notice that there is no English
how_to_map_a
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=How_to_map_aredirect=no,
which is an alias of Category:Features which is a rather different page.
And BTW, that English page has entries like DE:Öffentlicher Verkehr
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:%C3%96ffentlicher_Verkehr and
NL:Gebouwen http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Gebouwen
that one doesn't find in DE:How to map a
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:How_to_map_a or NL:How to map a
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a.
It is even uncertain whether DE and NL are countries or languages. Jo
told us that capital letters mean countries, but I'm under the
impression that they mean languages here.
Ask Google to translate German to Chinese, then Chinese to Dutch, then
... then French to German, compare source and destination and you have
the answer to your question.
Here is that experiment with your phrase:
Dit specificeert al dan niet om te zetten interessante Duitse versie,
Engels en Chinees.
And I must say Google Translation has much improved since I last played
that telephone chain game long ago.
Are you sure that you find all that unimportant?
Als het maar duidelijk is voor de (beginnende) gebruiker. Dat was
toch het doel van onze beslissing in Lier. Het zou spijtig zijn
als deze eindeloze discussie er toe leidt dat er niets gedaan wordt.
Verder hoop ik dat er meer energie gestoken wordt in het vertalen
dan het zoeken van argumenten om helemaal niets te doen.
I see no one saying that nothing should be done.
I see several people suggesting how it can be done better.
Even people speaking other languages.
Cordialement,
André.
Guy Vanvuchelen
*Van:*Ivo De Broeck [mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com
mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com]
*Verzonden:* zondag 10 februari 2013 20:42
*Aan:* winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com;
OpenStreetMap Belgium
*Onderwerp:* Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
Deze pagina is GEEN vertaling van de orginele How-to-map_a
(engelstalig).
Dit lijkt mij in te gaan tegen de regels van de wiki.
Dat de pagina (te) groot is, is een ander probleem.
Op 10 februari 2013 20:38 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com
mailto:winfi...@gmail.com het volgende:
Ik kreeg die errors ook als ik de hele pagina ineens wilde
aanpassen. Het is waarschijnlijk beter om het sectie per sectie te
doen, maar dan moet je wel steeds 2x editeren. 1x om iets toe te
voegen en 1x om de Duitse versie weg te halen.
Als je back doet, staat het editorvenster er weer en kan je
opnieuw proberen.
Jo
Op 10 februari 2013 20:35 schreef Ivo De Broeck
ivo.debro...@gmail.com mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com het volgende:
Ik denk dat we verkeerd bezig zijn:
Deze pagina is GEEN vertaling van de orginele How-to-map_a
(engelstalig).
Ik vrees ook dat de pagina te groot is.
PS: heb het hulp-scherm aangepast (verwees constant naar DE)
Op 10 februari 2013 20:06 schreef Ben Laenen
benlae...@gmail.com mailto:benlae...@gmail.com het volgende:
On Sunday 10 February 2013 10:19:58 Jo wrote:
De rest laat ik aan jullie over, dus allen daarheen:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a
Is die pagina soms te lang voor de server? Als ik iets wil
aanpassen krijg ik
voortdurend timeouts.
Ben
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
On 2013-02-11 15:53, Marc Gemis wrote : Ik weet ook niet of de Nederlandstalige pagina een letterlijke neerslag moet zijn van de Duitse. De Duitse kan een leidraad zijn voor het opstellen van een pagina, maar typisch Vlaamse (en dan hebben we het over een Vlaamse pagina en geen Nederlandstalige) bevat misschien ook een parochiehuis, een feestzaal enz. Niet dat ik zo Vlaamsgezind ben of zo, maar ik verwacht dat de meeste dingen die Vlamingen mappen in Vlaanderen liggen. Of dat je tenminste toch daar begint. As I just have written, are you writing a NL, VL or nl page (case being as Jo defined it)? I think that deciding that first would make the discussion shorter. But maybe with the conclusion that OSM mixes up language and countries. If it's a nl page, then we must decide which country signs to use (see my last message). Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
On 2013-02-11 20:43, Jo wrote : Op 11 februari 2013 15:53 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com het volgende: Ik weet ook niet of de Nederlandstalige pagina een letterlijke neerslag moet zijn van de Duitse. De Duitse kan een leidraad zijn voor het opstellen van een pagina, maar typisch Vlaamse (en dan hebben we het over een Vlaamse pagina en geen Nederlandstalige) bevat misschien ook een parochiehuis, een feestzaal enz. Niet dat ik zo Vlaamsgezind ben of zo, maar ik verwacht dat de meeste dingen die Vlamingen mappen in Vlaanderen liggen. Of dat je tenminste toch daar begint. me: As I just have written, are you writing a NL, VL or nl page (case being as Jo defined it)? I think that deciding that first would make the discussion shorter. But maybe with the conclusion that OSM mixes up language and countries. If it's a nl page, then we must decide which country signs to use (see my last message). We're creating a page in the Dutch language, which we have in common with the people in the Netherlands about things that can be mapped in Flanders, The Netherlands and why not Aruba and The Antilles. That's mostly the answer to Marc, whose text was removed and that I added back. If there is a difference in the terms we happen to prefer, we create redirects. For the few cases where we use differente ways of tagging, we either try to resolve the differences or we indicate those differences. A graphical indication could be nice, but is mostly eye candy. We can also simply indicate: In Nederland doen we het zus en in België zo. I prefer an anti-absent-minded eye-catcher. In case a foreigner would understand that de zus is at the zoo ;-) I'll go and try to be useful and translate a bit more. Thanks for fixing the wiki formatting error. You're much welcome. Keep on the good work. I wish I had time to make that automatic pre-translation. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
On 2013-02-10 10:19, Jo wrote : This is about the translation of a wiki page to Dutch as a result of our gathering in Lier yesterday. So the rest of the text is in Dutch. J'ai jeté un coup d'œil à la page en français et je constate qu'elle concerne essentiellement la France. Et un peu comme les pages qu'on trouve sur le Web concernant la législation ou les règlements concernant la santé et qui ne prennent pas la peine de dire qu'elles concernent la France. So, will the page in Dutch apply to Belgium or Netherlands? Do not forget to mention it. Side note: when translating from one language to another, GoogleTrans first translates to English and then to the other language. So, it's better to make an English translation first, to correct the mistakes in English (in which the OSM term are best defined) and then to translate to the other language. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
What I mean is that if anything is specific to one country, I suggest to add a picture or sign containing the two letters of that country in front of that anything. Dutch is read by more than BE and NL. Making the same page in English would help reading and translating by those who don't understand the other languages. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Belgian cadastre
Hi, So, the French people use data from their cadastre to build OSM. I have received from a notary an official map from the Belgian cadastre. Scan of a photocopy of a photocopy of... that's the technology. It is wrong. At first sight, there's an angle in one of the field sides that is straight on land and on a geometer's map. Further more, I tried every trapezoidal warp I could and I was unable to make a fit overlay to the PICC map (every time I adjusted one side, the other one went wrong). Anyone with a cadastre experience? Why don't they send people geodesic coordinates or a GPX trace of the fields? Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Cartographie Wallonie
Hi, For several years, people and myself have asked without reply C/artographie/ Wallonie http://www.google.be/url?sa=trct=jq=cartographie+walloniesource=webcd=1cad=rjaved=0CDIQFjAAurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcartographie.wallonie.be%2Fei=7OwLUdOgEIOt0QXRm4CIAgusg=AFQjCNHsqIR2rsLmaZ9P2wi3G5NbLXIMpg to confirm that they open our servers to be used for OSM, especially PICC data of paramount importance (1). Feesnone/FeesAccessConstraintsnone/AccessConstraints in their WMS server. I once read that one person finally got an answer: they are not against such usage but they have no time to make and publish an official decision. Am I remembering right that last year this subject was raised on this list and that it was said that a decision could be made by the end of 2012? Is there any news about that? Cheers, André. (1) the PICC data has defects (e.g. missing 50m of way length) and it's some way to improve it to copy it to OSM with corrections. PICC data seems to be vector format behind the tiles. Could it be translated to OSM format to be used as material to make updates? ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] WG: Marc De Ridder
Hello, Het is voor mij een zeer moeilijke taak om deze verschrikkelijk nieuws tot onze groep te vermelden. OSM had ons, Marc, André en Patrick (MAP), zeer zeer zeer goede viertalige vrinden gemaakt. Ik had hem op Kerstmis opgebeld, dat was onze laatst contact en voor hem (en mij) en zeer groot plezier. Hij sprak Frans tot mij en schrijven dit in zijn taal is mijn laatst cadeautje voor hem en zijn familie. Ik probeerde fouten te vermijden, maar het is zeer moeilijk met heel echte tranen in de ogen. Het lijkt me zonde om zijn werk niet bij te houden. Zijn werk is in de OSM kaart voor vele jaren zeer hard ingeschreven en we moeten dat niet veranderen. Kijk maar naar al deze grenzen. Dat is Marc. Is there any way to leave a tribute to Mark inside OSM? Couldn't we, for example, draw his house with a thanks note in all 4 languages by his close friends? He spoke very happily about them but I do not know them all. He was really driving people with his enthusiasm and true friendship. Cordialement, André. (and Patrick) On 2013-01-31 18:28, Patrick Bous wrote : André, Comme je ne te vois pas en copie de ce message, voici l’annonce du décès de Marc. Bàt, Patrick Bous Viel danke, Patrick. Wel bedankt, Stef. *Von:*Marc De Ridder [mailto:m...@telenet.be] *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2013 18:01 *An:* Koen. Demarsin; 'Georges De Gruyter'; Sander Deryckere; 'Patje A.'; 'Patrick Bous'; 'Cresens Koen' *Cc:* 'Stef De Ridder' *Betreff:* Marc De Ridder Beste, Ik ben Stef De Ridder, zoon van Marc De Ridder. Langs deze weg wil ik jullie op de hoogte brengen van het droevige nieuws dat mijn vader op 29/01/2013 overleden is. Hij had een zeer agressieve kanker en daardoor is het plots allemaal zeer snel achteruit gegaan. Ik weet dat mijn vader met plezier veel tijd doorbracht in Openstreetmap. Ik ken niemand van jullie en daarom kan ik de relatie die jullie met mijn vader hadden niet inschatten. Toch wou ik jullie op de hoogte brengen en daarom ben ik zo vrij geweest om in zijn mailbox naar contacten te zoeken. Misschien kunnen jullie dit nieuws aan betrokkenen doorgeven? Ik weet niet hoe OSM werkt maar mocht er nog materiaal op zijn PC staan dat nodig is voor de werking dan hoor ik dat later graag. Het lijkt me zonde om zijn werk niet bij te houden. Met vriendelijke groeten, Stef De Ridder stef.de.rid...@telenet.be mailto:stef.de.rid...@telenet.be E-Mail ist virenfrei. Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de http://www.avg.de Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virendatenbank: 2639/5570 - Ausgabedatum: 31.01.2013 ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] WG: Marc De Ridder
bcc: stef On 2013-01-31 20:07, A.Pirard.Papou wrote : Het is voor mij een zeer moeilijke taak om deze verschrikkelijk nieuws tot onze groep te vermelden. ... Sorry. PDF gemist. Maar ook echt geen plaats in talk-be log, zo heb ik het hier http://www.papou.byethost9.com/tmp/De%20Ridder%20Marc%20brief.pdftijdelijk geüpload http://www.papou.byethost9.com/tmp/De%20Ridder%20Marc%20brief.pdf. André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mons - 17/01/2013 - conference Jeudis du Libre OpenStreetMap
On 2013-01-19 13:52, Linusable wrote : en : you can obtain the pdf version (licence creative commons by-sa) of the presentation here : http://www.loligrub.be/wiki/openstreetmap#conference_jeudis_du_libre_du_17_janvier_2013 (It is of course in french) Fr : La version pdf de la présentation (sous licence creative commons by-sa) est disponible sur le wiki de l'association LoLiGrUB, à la page suivante : http://www.loligrub.be/wiki/openstreetmap#conference_jeudis_du_libre_du_17_janvier_2013 Je compte bien enrichir de notes le fichier source au format opendocument pour le mettre également à disposition. C'est un document génial comme introduction à OSM. Bravo!!! Je préconise de le mettre au format HTML sur le Web. Avantages: * disponibilité * Référencé en détail par Google * possibilité de contenir des liens qui, bien choisis, peuvent être aussi intéressants que le texte * de même, table des matières cliquable (liens internes) * et, non des moindres, traduction (potable) dans toutes les langues * voici de modestes comparaisons HTML-DOC-PDF http://www.papou.byethost9.com/GL3966/ -- HTML-PDF http://www.papou.byethost9.com/DT830/, -- another one http://www.papou.byethost9.com/notes/MATE/User_Guide_13.html -- légal http://papou.byethost9.com/PDF/cartes_de_promenade/ Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] création de forum?
On 2013-01-18 22:53, Ben Laenen wrote : On Friday 18 January 2013 22:49:53 manuel rossi wrote: Salut a tous Nous sommes de plus en plus nombreux a mapper en Belgique. Il me semble qu'une mail list n'est pas très conviviale. Ne pourraient-on pas créer un petit forum assez simple qui serait plus facile d'utilisation? Bien a vous We already have a forum: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=29 But almost nobody uses it, the mailing list is much more popular... The most important is that what results from any discussions be written in a wiki page so that the said increasing number of mappers knew how to map instead of spending hours trying to find instructions that have been written in mail or not. It's a bad experience to spend many hours searching non existing instructions, to do the same as what is already done and to be scolded because what was already done it's not the right way. It's straightforward to copypaste the conclusions of a HTML e-mail discussion to a HTML Web page, but, alas, it's a bit more complicated and long with the Wiki formats, especially those that don't even have a button to insert a newline. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] création de forum?
On 2013-01-18 23:37, Jo wrote : Salut Manuel, La liste est multilingue, un peu comme le pays. Même si ce n'est pas avec les mêmes langues. N'hésites donc pas d'envoyer des messages dans la langue qui te convient le mieux. Le seul inconvénient est que pas tout le monde pourra comprendre ce que tous les autres écrivent. Mais ce serait également le cas si nous nous limitions à l'anglais. Jo Traduire une page Web http://www.cfmweb.fr/traduire-une-page-web-en-un-clic-avec-google-traduction. (Toute la France et le monde cherche ceci http://translate.google.com/translate_buttons et il faut comprendre l'anglais pour installer ce traducteur d'anglais) Traduire un message https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/thunderbird/addon/quick-translator/ Thunderbird dans les 2 sens (met parfois du HTML parasite dans le message) S'il y a mieux, je suis preneur. _ Démo:_ Translate a message in Thunderbird 2 directions (sometimes puts the message in HTML parasite) If there are more, I'm interested. Перевод сообщений в Thunderbird 2-х направлениях (иногда помещает сообщение в HTML паразита) Если есть еще, я заинтересован http://translate.google.be/?hl=frtab=wT#auto/fr/%D0%95%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B8+%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C+%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5,+%D1%8F+%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD click speaker méfiance: retraduit есть (il y a) par oui et laisse tomber еще (plus, encore). Traduire http://translate.google.be/. Démo: 萨 路阿副图 故也大个 http://translate.google.be/?hl=frtab=wT#zh-CN/fr/%E8%90%A8%E8%B7%AF%E9%98%BF%E5%89%AF%E5%9B%BE+%E6%95%85%E4%B9%9F%E5%A4%A7%E4%B8%AA click on the Chinese loudspeaker and listen _very_ carefully. Le Wikikitradwi n'a pas encore été inventé. Cheers, André. * French - detected * English * French * Russian * English * French * Russian javascript:void(0); * English * French * Russian ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] D1 road sign
On 2013-01-16 22:32, Ben Laenen wrote : On Wednesday 16 January 2013 22:04:57 A.Pirard.Papou wrote: Hi, The Mandatory to follow the direction indicated by the arrow description for the down sloping D1 signals here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Road_signs_in_Belgium is (fortunately) incorrect. It should be Drive around the obstacle on the side indicated by the arrow. fortunately incorrect? :-) Yes, because if it were correct you should go under ground. *MANDATORY* !!! ;-) The full Dutch official definition of the D1 sign is: D1. Verplichting de door de pijl aangeduide richting te volgen. De plaatsgesteldheid bepaalt de stand van de pijl. Wanneer het verkeersbord dat een niet-gebogen pijl voorstelt, op een hindernis geplaatst is, betekent het dat langs de door de pijl aangeduide richting moet voorbijgereden worden. Translated: D1. Mandatory to follow the direction indicated by the arrow. The location decides the direction the arrow is pointing. If the traffic sign that represents a non-curved arrow is placed on an obstacle, it means that you have to drive around it on the side indicated by the arrow. So, the definition on the page isn't incorrect, but I only translated the first sentence. I just wanted to have a simple definition in the table without every little detail. But if you want you can always add the definition of the traffic sign when it's placed on an obstacle. I did not say that your translation is bad and I don't blame you, I meant that the explanation in the Belgian highway code is bad. *Actually*, this sign http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Belgium-trafficsign-d1_downleft.svg and this sign http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Belgium-trafficsign-d1_downright.svg are the only (direction) ones placed on obstacles. The blunder of the code is that there should be two different IDs such as D1a and D1b, and two explanations for two different meanings (turn left and go around). So, what should be done is split the D1 row in two, move those two signs to the second part and put each explanation in the correct part. Who will do that? Do you want it confirmed by a lawyer (source=)? I'd prefer. The highway code has many blunders. The no parking sign with a double headed arrow is described as no parking over a long distance. It's obviously meaningless to say long distance without saying how long and not to say *where* the interdiction applies. The correct definition is ... in front of the sign and behind it, up to a crossing or another signal. E1 explanation should add behind the signal. One E1 in a GB parking lot was obviously placed to mean the opposite. Nice page. I appreciate the SVG format. Would you like some fills if I can find or make them? I would replace B9 with B15 with the bars in all 6 directions :-) I also like the left-turning D1 rotated 90° anticlockwise. (I took a photograph of one with a Carrefour shop in the background) Especially when followed by left-down-sloping rotated 90° clockwise. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] changeset log by e-mail
On 2013-01-04 16:33, Sander Deryckere wrote : I prefer whodidit, as they have a nice representation of where the edits happened. This is the last link in the area I follow: http://zverik.osm.rambler.ru/whodidit/index.html?changeset=14491271show=1 I always have an rss reader open, so I don't need a script to mail me. Looks good, thanks. I couldn't see the background but now it works. Strange, it's getting tiles from http://[abc].tile.openstreetmap.org and OSM, doing the same, was OK in the same area. I suppose it displays the last status, not the change log. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur Luxembourg
On 2012-12-23 16:00, Jo wrote : 2012/12/23 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com I would have liked to add node numbers, but I could not find on the Belgian OSM wiki how they're assigned. How can I do that? http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.5256lon=5.7969 http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.5256lon=5.7969http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.5256lon=5.7969The numbered nodes get rcn_ref with the number as the value. OK, I had understood I must use the number as the number. But, /*how are those numbers assigned*/? That means: who chooses them or do we have to invent them ourselves and are there any rules. This should be explained in the wiki so that it can be usable. Then you create a relation for each of the routes in between with: type=route route=bicycle network=rcn note=xx-yy To this relation you add all the ways to get from node xx to node yy, where xx is the lower numbered node. Then you can add all these nodes and route relations to another relation: type=network network=rcn name= I mentioned that our routes are both hiking and cycling. TIA for a bimodal configuration. You can have a look in the list of my recent edits for examples. I'm working on rcn networks a lot. Sure, if you, like I did, let us know the URLs to see them. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] additional Cycle node networks in Namur Luxembourg
On 2012-12-15 13:03, Jo wrote : (And thanks for writing that letter, your French is quite good!) Hi EeBie, That's great news! Unfortunately we can't use their map or the GPX files from their web site without their explicit permission. I'll try to whip up a message in French to ask for that permission, but usually the answer to such requests is nyet. Meaning we'll have to go and survey it ourselves or with help of gpx files recorded by people who'll go out and ride them. The advantage of doing it ourselves is that it's possible to make a lot more pictures and notes and improve the rest of the data around there at the same time. The copyright information must be written inside the metadata, obtained with a WMS Getcapabilities http://schemas.opengis.net/wms/1.1.1/capabilities_1_1_1.xml request to or extracted from the GPX XML file according the GPX schema (1.1) http://www.topografix.com/gpx/1/1/gpx.xsd. (just like finding the © written in a book or on a record dispenses everybody to inquire) But does a © on a map forbid photocopying the map or learning the route by heart and map it? You can also consider listing *Les itinéraires touristiques balisés* http://cgt.tourismewallonie.be/default.aspx?pg=9e9d7134-fa22-4015-b8d7-768eef2544f2 (legally official site) for Wallonie. Several communes consider that the routes are both cycling and biking. I have mapped routes in the commune Sprimont and Theux http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=13lat=50.51982lon=5.71373 with the official IDs. SP3 and most of TE is missing. I e-mailed both adms but I've got no reply. Someone made something similar in Tillf http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.56067lon=5.58773, but I don't see any official IDs for Tilff. I would have liked to add node numbers, but I could not find on the Belgian OSM wiki how they're assigned. How van I do that? I made a cycle route here http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.5256lon=5.7969. Completely unofficial and off the top of my head. I chose it because it's almost flat in a very hilly region, but I do not know how to show that on the map. How could I? I'd love to draw more if someone around got interested or ever replied to my e-mails. Sprimont do not seem to officially list anything bike specific. Should I be inventive and made unofficial routes? I'm almost sure some kids nearby would help me. We should request OSM to add Waymart map layers http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=13lat=50.51982lon=5.71373 to their site, they're simply great. Could we suggest firms that use GoogleMaps to use OpenStreetMap instead and to help them adding to OSM what they need? http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=14lat=50.5256lon=5.7969Please do not change what I mapped, but suggest anything you want. Cordialement, André. I hope you don't mind I'm going to change your nodes a bit. For one the nodes don't need network=rcn or bicycle=yes. It's enough if they have an rcn_ref tag. This is to avoid having to put network=rcn;rwn for nodes that are common between walking and cycling networks. Cheers, Jo Op 15 december 2012 01:43 schreef EeBie ebe...@gmail.com mailto:ebe...@gmail.com het volgende: Jo, You can add a new cycle network to the list. Since this year there is a cycle node network in Namur and Luxembourg: Famenne-à-Vélo. See http://www.famenne-a-velo.be/ http://www.famenne-a-velo.be/They speak about 350 km in total. I encountered a few node signs while hiking in the region and tagged 3 of them and one route (154-155) in the neighborhood of Wavreille map http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.12596lon=5.24383zoom=16layers=M . The website offers the possibility to download GPX files of the routes. I don’t have any idea if it is permitted to use those to add the route to OSM. The application is developed by Geolives. That company writes that they can also make applications based on OSM. (the website for Famenne-à-Vélo uses Google maps). The reference list of Geolives shows also several (walking) routes in Wallonie. Erik ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Proxy tagging
Hello, On 2012-11-28 22:38, XXX wrote : Limite de la zone 30 coté Hody: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.4979lon=5.51367zoom=18layers=M Limite coté Esneux: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.497855lon=5.516169zoom=18layers=M C'est ce que tu souhaites? This, among other requests, but not always replied, is what my friend answered when I asked him to determine the limits of the Zone30 near his home. I recommend this method generally (not only for zone30). Can also be described as distant tagging / robot tagging / 50% FAT (friend assisted tagging), you name it. Of course, the e-mail explaining the various ways to do it was rather long. Jacques chose the method to click on the map. The information that someone can generally bring is much varied. So, instead of rewriting the same long e-mails over and over again for each new request, I thought of a page of mine, and later of BE_OSM that would explain how a non-tagger can send information to tag in the many situations in which he can help. If you don't do that, you can read from volunteers things like that the one-way of a street must be reversed. So, to prevent reverting it twice, it's necessary to advice to say "towards street X". 2012/11/28 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com I started writing this "Help us" general page supposed to explain several things that the general Belgian can do to help our project. What do you think? Should I continue this page? Would you help? The only reaction I received was negative. Hence, I removed that page, sorry. Google does not allow anyone to update the map directly. It's wise to prevent its destruction. Proxy tagging resembles that. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM CSS questions
On 2012-12-18 09:02, Jo wrote :
2012/12/18 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com
mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com
Hi,
A question about CSS, maybe for JOSM Jo?
The following CSS, adapt to your taste, are very useful because
they make nodes very clear when you tag at high zoom and discreet
when you navigate at low zoom.
node|z1-17 { symbol-shape: square; symbol-fill-opacity: 0;
symbol-size: 1; z-index:-1}
node|z18- { symbol-shape: square; symbol-stroke-color: navy;
symbol-fill-color: rosybrown; symbol-size:8; z-index:1}
(WindowsMap paint styles and EditPreferencesGrid iconMap paint
styles)
Questions: is there a way to:
* make the hair-cross (aka virtual node) in the middle of a way
more visible
* prevent the cursor turning to a hand that's hiding the dot
it's dragging
I don't think those virtual nodes or the change of appearance of the
mouse pointer can be controlled by mapcss. Those are features of JOSM
and to change their behaviour or appearance would involve changing the
JAVA source code of JOSM.
It's open source software, so this is not impossible to do, but it's a
lot less trivial than creating a mapcss style sheet.
Jo
Thanks. OK Jo. I got this from a case and I replied what applies to your
reply too.
On 2012-12-18 08:53, JOSM wrote :
#7887: unobtrusive node squares
Comment (by stoecker):
make the cross in the middle of a way more visible
There should be a hidden setting to define its size. I suggest to search
for virtual in expert settings.
Right, thanks Dirk, mappaint.node.virtual-size=8.
But in fact, the problem is more the color than the size.
On black, the yellow cross is visible all-right.
But on a white background, it's almost invisible whatever its size.
As it's a general issue with that background, the best idea is to change it.
Getting it transparent is not a solution, its black lines wouldn't show
on black.
Only thing to do is to invert all the background colors.
This would solve all the color problems sort of by definition.
I found this:
* invert colors
*::* {
color: eval(rgb(1 - red(prop(color)), 1 - green(prop(color)), 1 -
blue(prop(color;
fill-color: eval(rgb(1 - red(prop(fill-color)), 1 -
green(prop(fill-color)), 1 - blue(prop(fill-color;
}
But it inverts the foreground OSM layer.
Anything similar for the background?
Cheers,
André.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] boundary names and my program
On 2012-11-29 09:23, Jan-willem De Bleser wrote : On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 4:51 AM, A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: I have presented this to tagging@osm, and I think I mentioned it on talk-be@osm: The municipality (L8=level 8) border segments (ways between two municipalities) should be assembled with multilinestring to form arrondissement L7 border segments. Then, the border of the arrondissement are now a much smaller number of L7 segments. We may do the same at higher levels. The L8 borders are tagged admin_level=8, name=municipalityA — municipalityB The L7 borders are tagged admin_level=7, name=arrondissementA — arrondissementB The L6 borders are tagged admin_level=6, name=provinceA — provinceB and so on for upper levels or lower levels if they exist. And then the meaningless saying the highest admin_level wins goes away by itself, especially when applied to names for which there is no reason to apply that rule. THAT is consistent, coherent, compatible, congruous, harmonious, homogeneous, logical, solid, sound, straightforward, uniform, you name it. But... no answer that proposition. You're right, that does solve the which layer? problem. If you mentioned that earlier in the thread, I'm sorry, I must have missed it. The problem I have, however, is that by using name=A-B, you're trying to give the boundaries a name when it really is the municipalities that have a name. To use your example above, what if the L8 boundaries are all members of multipolygon relations, each with the name of a municipality, the L7 members of multipolygons named after arrondissements, and so on. If you have the border, it is a single api call to find which relations it is a member of, and then you can easily extract the name. This is pretty much what they suggest on the wiki (well, that or left: and right: tags). I assume your program could do that extra query without difficulty? Should be easy in Josm as it grabs any relation in the bounding box, but I'll have to take a look at Potlatch to see if it's possible there. Essentially, I don't want to have to agree on a name, I want to use the one that's already there. When I started to map Belgian boundaries, I looked for instructions on the Belgian pages and I found none. So, I looked at what was being done, I saw that names were used on boundaries and I did the same. And now I am /*accused of *//*insisting*/ to put names on the borders when I found them that way. If I look at the result of the way it is done, I see nameA — nameB name1 name2 name3 name4 ... everywhere, sometimes being a municipality, sometimes being an arrondissement, sometimes being a province etc... without any clue for the map reader to know which is which. And Namur or Liège can be three different types. The result of my view of the Boundaries is that, instead of seeing this on the border Liège — Namur Havelange Huy Namur Dinant Clavier Liège one would see Clavier — HavelangeHuy — Dinant (arr.)Liège —Namur (prov.) beside the unavoidable pile of shit. To this, I'm answered that the pile of shit is very well the way it is. That the nec plus ultra is a renderer taking the name (but not the admin_level!) off the municipality relation without the faintest notion of what are the names to be used for distinguishing admin levels. And one will certainly not miss the occasion to roll out the refrain that I want to tag for the rendering. I, who would certainly be glad to map any community border like the Quartier des Marolles, am accused of not considering them as administrative borders because they can be used as postal addresses and of not mapping level 10 names everywhere. I just read a question of someone wanting to navigate down the boundary tree. I do it, but the answer he received is that it is not possible. It goes on.. Basically everything is free-form in OSM. There are conventions on tagging, but there is no guarantee people will stick to them. My own opinion is indeed that it's difficult and unreliable to obtain data from OSM. But, after reading for boundaries that one does it that way and the other another way and even in Belgium that they are nor doing it the way they say they must do it, I have serious doubts about existing conventions too, conventions allowing to scan the tree here and not there. The net result of this is that I'm losing my time writing messages in hope of doing something right, that I hate doing things wrong and that, in consequence I'm leaving the boundary business. I will finish as perfectly as possible, as I did before, what I have promised to do. I started my boundary work by fixing borders that were 250 m away from their position and putting Banneux that was in arr. Verviers in arr. Liège. Don't forget to fix the other ugly, huge offsets in Belgian borders
[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: Bericht van AXA BANK
Hoping you will pardon my being out of topic... Beste vrienden, Ik schrijf Vlaams niet goed, maar ik ben ook absoluut onbekwaam zo grappig als dit te zijn. Cobbcounty or Cops country? Thundebird users plz right-clickhierom-Report_Email_Scam on updatete voltooien http://www.playtopgunsports.com/axa.be/ other users click here. http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/report_phish/?tpl=mozillahl=en-USurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.playtopgunsports.com%2Faxa.be%2F metbestegroenten, André. Original Message Subject:Bericht van AXA BANK Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 09:39:51 -0500 From: Rojas, Margaret margaret.ro...@cobbcounty.org To: undisclosed-recipients:; *aandacht;** Erzijn geweesteen automatischebeveiligingsupdate opuw AXA Online Bank Account. ***Klikhierom de updatete voltooien** * http://www.playtopgunsports.com/axa.be/**Houd errekening mee datu 24 uurzijn binnenomdeze update te voltooien. omdat jezou kunnen verliezenacessomuw AXA online Bank Account* ** */Cobb County...Expect the Best/* *//* *www.cobbcounty.org http://www.cobbcounty.org/ * ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Lost property: one forest, messages, Bing
Unsent message. On 2012-11-12 15:28, Jan-willem De Bleser wrote : On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 2:55 PM, A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com wrote: To send an e-mail to someone, I must fill a web form asking her?/him to reply so that I know his e-mail address to which I send my e-mail (not only OSM). Does anybody know when someone will invent a Web button next to the form to do that automatically, or do I miss something? OSM has an internal messaging system, which I've used to discuss with other mappers without ever knowing their email address. It gives you some privacy at a cost of having to use that form interface. If you want their email address you have to ask. You need not to use that form interface to do what you say. By e-mail address, I mean Name m-hh-hhh...@messages.openstreetmap.org with which two persons can send (real) e-mail to each other through OSM.org without knowing their real e-mail address. It's that address that a button could send without having to send someone a Web form message asking him 'reply' to know that address and start using real e-mail. Same for e-bay. It seems obvious to me. , Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] boundary names and my program
On 2012-11-28 12:55, Jan-willem De Bleser wrote : On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: Why municipalities and not part-municipalities? When you enter a village, you get signs as these: http://1.standaardcdn.be/Assets/Images_Upload/2009/06/04/A7_BORDJE_IVH.MM.jpg.h170.jpg.280.jpg So the part-municipality is in a bigger font than the municipality. I wonder what's your reason to choose the municipality name if you really want the lowest admin level. Show me the village borders with a municipality name and I'll change them. Send me the GPX traces of village borders and I'll map them. But they won't be boundary=administrative, nor part of the tree I'm talking about, because there's no lower administrative entity than a municipality (except districts of Antwerp if what I read is correct and complete, and they should of course bear their names). Although I'll never add those names myself (I think it's useless), I also don't oppose adding the names. I only hope it happens consistently. UK: Today, children, we will learn how to use OSM data: click on the border of our town, they call it a relation, and learn our neighbour towns: 58224617, 58217805, 58213970,58213967, 33002251, 172434383, 33185408, 18459510, 32900355. BE0: Today, ...Liège — Verviers, Liège — Verviers, Trooz, Chaudfontaine , Esneux, Comblain-au-Pont, Aywaille BE1: Tomorrow, ... Theux, Pepinster, Trooz, Chaudfontaine , Esneux, Comblain-au-Pont, Aywaille This is precisely the problem, and is the same discussion we had about bicycle node networks - it *won't* happen consistently because it's a made-up name. Municipality, part-municipality, city, country... a border can border on multiple regions simultaneously, so why should one particular type get priority? Why A - B and not B - A? Why not prefix the name with the word Municipality, so that people know that the two names are municipality names and not a different type of border? I have presented this to tagging@osm, and I think I mentioned it on talk-be@osm: The municipality (L8=level 8) border segments (ways between two municipalities) should be assembled with multilinestring to form arrondissement L7 border segments. Then, the border of the arrondissement are now a much smaller number of L7 segments. We may do the same at higher levels. The L8 borders are tagged admin_level=8, name=municipalityA — municipalityB The L7 borders are tagged admin_level=7, name=arrondissementA — arrondissementB The L6 borders are tagged admin_level=6, name=provinceA — provinceB and so on for upper levels or lower levels if they exist. And then the meaningless saying the highest admin_level wins goes away by itself, especially when applied to names for which there is no reason to apply that rule. THAT is consistent, coherent, compatible, congruous, harmonious, homogeneous, logical, solid, sound, straightforward, uniform, you name it. But... no answer that proposition. Do you want me to apply that configuration on the borderline Liège — Verviers? I have a test demo OSM update ready for that. We will be able to evaluate the consequences. I know one: JOSM does not support multilinestring and recursion. So, the configuration it makes is correct but continuity and loop test it makes will no longer exist for higher levels. That's, a pity, but the most important test is the bottom-level one. For he upper levels with only a few boundaries, good attention will suffice. And the very simple program I wrote is quite capable of going down the tree and check for continuity and loop. Any news about JOSM supporting recursion, e.g. as hiking routes use them? We could otherwise not use multilinestring and use overlapping real ways but I find that ugly !!! Shall I apply that test configuration? Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] boundary names and my program
Hi, I have improved my border scanning program. For additional fun, I computed the length of borderlines between municipalities. You can see the Province Liège result @ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Papou/OSM. I intend to check the borders for various kinds of errors later and build a worksheet (1). At present, it only builds that worksheet for persons to reserve and mark completion of tasks. Click on the headers to sort the columns, especially by length. I thought I could make a shortest-border contest, but you can see the problem: a 3 meter winner! That's because, despite the practice is discouraged, Mr Verdy has been using paths as borders. After ignoring streams, paths and barbed wire borders, it turns out that the winner is: Deutschland — Belgique / België / Belgien Congratulations !!! What is that? That's the name Mr Verdy has given it instead of a simple commune X commune Y. But it's easy to find which border it is by looking to which areas it belongs: Verviers (town, arrondissement, province?), Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft, Deutschland (Landmasse), Deutschland, Rheinland-Pfalz, Burg-Reuland, Liège (town, arrondissement, province?), België - Belgique - Belgien, Belgigue / België / Belgien (land mass), Deutschland — Belgique / België / Belgien, Eifelkreis Bitburg-Prüm, Eifel, Sevenig (Our), Arzfeld and ... 1259856. Conclusions: In order for my program (and others) to work and be useful, * *the names of the borders must be Municipality A — Municipality B* and not 30 times Belgium — Germany or Liège —Verviers. Note that this is border identification. The names Belgium an Germany are taken from the relations and written on the borderline to indicate country limits anyway. * proper ways must be used for borders, not paths, railways, streams, landuse etc... *Can we all agree on that?* (1) I can check that each border has 2 communes and that the municipality and border names are the same. I can check that the municipality has a well formed phone number, is_in, and a huge lot of things like that: I will ask you the rules you think of. Cheers, Papou André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Talk-be Digest, Vol 59, Issue 29
Can we please use meaningful Subject:? Not Talk-be Digest, thank you. They are not easy to find in the archives. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] zone30/50/70 vs Bebouwde kom/Agglomération/Built-up area
On 2012-11-26 16:55, Ben Laenen wrote : Also, why the BE prefix, these roads are in Belgium, no need to duplicate that information on all the roads. I'm much interested in this remark. For writing POI files, one must determine in which municipality (polygonal relation) a street (way) is. How can it be done? Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] zone30/50/70 vs Bebouwde kom/Agglomération/Built-up area (zone:traffic={BE,UK,...}:*)
On 2012-11-23 22:58, Kytömaa Lauri wrote : If it's just the traffic rules urban vs. rural, there's the tag (with 37 000+ uses) zone:traffic=**:rural zone:traffic=**:urban where ** is the two letter country code. On 2012-11-26 13:16, Marc Gemis wrote : country_code:context (where the speed limit is defined by a particular context, for example urban/rural/motorway/etc.) On 2012-11-26 16:41, Jo wrote : One week ago I had never heard of the zone:traffic tags. I didn't have a clue how one could tag streets as part of built-up area/city limits or out of it. For many years this is something I have been wanting to do though. So I was glad I finally learned how it could/should be done in one of the many discussions started by Papou. zone30 are mostly within built-up area, zone50 and zone70 aren't. I think it's important to distinguish between zoneXX and built-up area as they occur mostly independent from each other, so the namespaces also ought to be independent. We could use source:maxspeed=BE:zone30 instead of source:maxspeed=zone30, but since a street already gets zone:traffic=BE:urban/rural, the BE seems less important in the source:maxspeed tags. Great finding From Lauri indeed !!! But regarding this, where is the complete zone:traffic=BE:* list? (just one example) In Belgium, we have more than urban/rural/motorway/etc. default=rural agglomération=urban autoroute=motorway route pour automobile=? zone résidentielle=? zone de rencontre=? zone piétonne=? chemin réservé à la circulation des piétons, cyclistes et cavaliers=? rue réservée aux jeux=? Abords d'école= Zone 30=? Rue cyclable=? Each with their regulations details. I was lately "sent" to map an alleged Zone30 area and there was no Zone 30 but a zone résidentielle which is equivalent maxspeed-wise but not other-wise (other-regulations-wise). If we had a tag such as INCLUDE:BE:...:urban etc. with which the programs would fetch all the relevant tags like maxspeed per zone type from a well known per country or WW (world wide) database object (1) then we would have a clear list and we could tell the government that they can change details any time without sending us to work everywhere. How could otherwise programs that are supposed to use the OSM data make sense of a such ever changing global notions without breaking them down to well-defined concepts such as speed, bicycles, etc... That would please both the global view and the piecewise one. Wouldn't that stop the zonebabel? Cheers, André. (1) for example some well-known BE relation that would contain a role=zones or traffic member to a relation that would similarly contain rural, urban, etc. pointers to nodes that would contain the tags ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] agglomération
Hi, As I am against always changing the subject line of discussions, I resent with the original one. But it's also to add that, in my opinion, the tagging must respect the categories that the national law defines (our code de la route). There is no point in trying to forcefully adapt foreign concepts if they do not match. I don't think there's a concept of built-up area in the Belgian law and I don't think there's a difference in the definition of an agglomération whether it resides in a city or in a village (even if rural sounds like village, this is not poetry). This all, obviously, doesn't prevent a specific tag like a lower speed limit overriding the global one. (On 2012-11-26 18:21, A.Pirard.Papou wrote :) On 2012-11-23 22:58, Kytömaa Lauri wrote : If it's just the traffic rules urban vs. rural, there's the tag (with 37 000+ uses) zone:traffic=**:rural zone:traffic=**:urban where ** is the two letter country code. On 2012-11-26 13:16, Marc Gemis wrote : country_code:context (where the speed limit is defined by a particular context, for example urban/rural/motorway/etc.) On 2012-11-26 16:41, Jo wrote : One week ago I had never heard of the zone:traffic tags. I didn't have a clue how one could tag streets as part of built-up area/city limits or out of it. For many years this is something I have been wanting to do though. So I was glad I finally learned how it could/should be done in one of the many discussions started by Papou. zone30 are mostly within built-up area, zone50 and zone70 aren't. I think it's important to distinguish between zoneXX and built-up area as they occur mostly independent from each other, so the namespaces also ought to be independent. We could use source:maxspeed=BE:zone30 instead of source:maxspeed=zone30, but since a street already gets zone:traffic=BE:urban/rural, the BE seems less important in the source:maxspeed tags. Great finding From Lauri indeed !!! But regarding this, where is the complete zone:traffic=BE:* list? (just one example) In Belgium, we have more than urban/rural/motorway/etc. http://www.code-de-la-route.be/textes-legaux/sections/ar/code-de-la-route/100-art2 default=*rural* agglomération=*urban* autoroute=*motorway* route pour automobile=*?* zone résidentielle=*?* zone de rencontre=*?* zone piétonne=*?* chemin réservé à la circulation des piétons, cyclistes et cavaliers=*?* rue réservée aux jeux=*?* Abords d'école= Zone 30=*?* Rue cyclable=*?* Each with their regulations details. I was lately sent to map an alleged Zone30 area and there was no Zone 30 but a /*zone résidentielle*/ which is equivalent maxspeed-wise but not other-wise (other-regulations-wise). If we had a tag such as *INCLUDE:BE:...:urban* etc. with which the programs would fetch all the relevant tags like *maxspeed* per zone type from a well known per country or WW (world wide) database object (1) then we would have a clear list and we could tell the government that they can change details any time without sending us to work everywhere. How could otherwise programs that are supposed to use the OSM data make sense of a such ever changing global notions without breaking them down to well-defined concepts such as speed, bicycles, etc... That would please both the global view and the piecewise one. Wouldn't that stop the zonebabel? Cheers, André. (1) for example some well-known BE relation that would contain a role=*zones* or *traffic* member to a relation that would similarly contain rural, urban, etc. pointers to nodes that would contain the tags ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Zones 30 in Belgium
On 2012-11-23 00:17, Jo wrote : The code is definitely Python, using a regex is just the smart thing to do, whether in Python, Perl or Java. I had to massage the data a bit as well though, it wasn't entirely consistent. Yes I know. It was a joke. It meant that without regex your program and mine would probably triple in size. All these bugs from OSB can also be visualised in OSMOSE, it has a category for that. What about telling us the category name and how to see it? I see nothing. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from )
On 2012-11-20 10:40, A.Pirard.Papou wrote : Hi, A GPS addicts group has encoded a file of over 1000 30 km/h speed limits. Their leader has just discovered OSM, ITO Map, etc... He's promoting security much and would like his data into OSM. I wrote on talk-be that this was doing it the other way round. A speed limit has two ends and his POIs are nodes. They should have been encoded into OSM first and then extracted. If only the world knew that OSM exists :-( I have converted their file to a .osm file. I can transfer the nodes to another layer and apply a JOSM preset. That's quite fast but 1000 is much! But I can split the .osm file to share the work. Well, do you think it would be useful to add those POIs and how? * as a side node with o maxspeed=30 o fixme=determine start/end and transfer these tags to the way o source=http://... * as a real limit on a sort distance, wrong but with a fixme? most often it's about the same distance astride a school access this could be visible on maps, but make believe the mapping is done * as a just a note on the way: o fixme=please tag the 30 km/h speed limit here much time spent for little result * another idea? A side node risks to be unnoticed and even left behind after really mapping the limit. Mapping the wrong distance means risking not to notice fixme and later split+join. Well, what's your advice? I think I was clear enough presenting the options I knew to help this guy. No replies. Now that I have prepared the quickest option 1, I receive all sorts of contradicting replies. Why not before I did the job? So, my conclusion is to suggest you to do it exactly as you want. You know where the data is. I will certainly not manually enter 1000 entries in OpenStreetBugs just in hope. But someone may know how to use OSB API. Or that they have none. And in that case, send OSB the file zone30_BE.asc. Or split and share the job... Is the error having no speed limit or having a dummy node showing there should be a limit? I had found that way to automatically signal the error to OSMI and to OSMOSE and to ...? But you don't want that. I was doing all that because I once picked up a dead 10 yo that s.o. knocked down, no speed limit. Goodbye, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] agglomération
Hi, I wanted to map the agglomeration of my village and I am wondering again. http://www.google.be/search?q=agglomération site:openstreetmap.org -communauté http://www.google.be/search?q=agglom%C3%A9ration%20site:openstreetmap.org%20-communaut%C3%A9 as well as a wiki search returns very vague information. OSM-talk-fr sounds like associating agglomération and speed limit. However, at least in Belgium, the definition of agglomération is very strict http://www.code-de-la-route.be/textes-legaux/sections/ar/code-de-la-route/100-art2 (Engooglish http://translate.google.be/translate?u=http%3A//www.code-de-la-route.be/textes-legaux/sections/ar/code-de-la-route/100-art2hl=frlangpair=auto%7Centbb=1ie=UTF-8) as well as, although a link list seems yet to have to be invented, what it implies http://www.code-de-la-route.be/component/search/?searchword=agglom%C3%A9rationssearchphrase=allItemid=48 (Engooglish http://translate.google.be/translate?u=http%3A//www.code-de-la-route.be/component/search/%3Fsearchword%3Dagglom%25C3%25A9rations%26searchphrase%3Dall%26Itemid%3D48hl=frlangpair=auto%7Centbb=1ie=UTF-8), much more than a speed limit. How is an agglomération tagged? With residential ways? Not every agglomeration part is residential and there are residences outside agglomerations. When we're not facing the single road traversing a village, an agglomeration looks much like an area. It would indeed be a chore to tag every road of the agglomération of a big city. But that's an area of roads, more like gloves than mittens. An agglomération is ≤ a village which is ≤ an old commune which is a commune = municipality. That's an observation similar to what I've read on OSM-talk-fr. But an agglomeration has nothing to do with administrative stuff. Else, in Belgium, we would have agglomérations and agglomeraties overlapping each other ;-) Hence, it's not a subarea of a commune (municipality). Is my reasoning correct that I should I make a relation containing the roads? But how do I tag it so that software recognize it as an agglomération as described above??? Well, if I too consider just the speed limit, I see that Speed_limits http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Speed_limits applies to roads, railways! and waterways!!! Not relations ! How do we tag agglomérations? Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Zones 30 in Belgium
On 2012-11-21 14:55, Ben Laenen wrote : On Wednesday 21 November 2012 14:29:31 A.Pirard.Papou wrote: I think I was clear enough presenting the options I knew to help this guy. No replies. Now that I have prepared the quickest option 1, I receive all sorts of contradicting replies. Why not before I did the job? You should always give it some time before everyone who's interested has had some time to read the lists and think about it for a bit... A single day isn't enough... So yeah, you can prepare the work immediately, but you do risk doing unnecessary work once it's clear what the community wants. I didn't even think you were anywhere close to actually importing the data... OK Ben. I didn't think myself that I would come up to that solution so easily. On the other hand, it can be undone instantly by removing a single change set. And as it can automatically trigger OSMI, OSMOSE, ... that's why I like it. OpenStreetBugs is mostly a collection of already long solved issues, not really a popular agora. Can we spend the time you speak of checking that everyone's favorite Inspector is highlighting the errors and that they are not masking other errors or pissing off people. Making this error unusual (not mixing it with usual ones) is necessary as well as avoiding that mappers erase it without reading the tags or the node. Having the Inspectors display a /*Be sure to read inside*/ would be ideal. Any better tags suggestion is welcome. It has to be definitive. Not easy to change the tags when part of the nodes will have been erased. OSMI Data from 2012-11-18, I had read next day delivery. OSMOSE seem to think it's not important to know. Pity the tests cannot be more interactive. I'm keeping ears and eyes open. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] [Tagging] agglomération
On 2012-11-21 21:26, Ben Laenen wrote : On Wednesday 21 November 2012 20:52:50 sly (sylvain letuffe) wrote: That's the current state of recommendation, but maybe we could start discussing it to see if that's a good idea to apply speed limits on roads inside a bounding polygon Polygons are a bad idea to map built-up areas. It's not uncommon that there's a bridge where the road on top belongs to the built-up area, but the road below does not. Or tunnels going under a built-up area, with the tunnel itself not part of it. Ben I didn't speak of a polygon (closed ways) but of a relation (a set of ways). A speed limit on the roads doesn't prevent you driving as fast as you want in the meadows ;-) Look at multilinestring, which I see as a swiss-knife way assembly. In my mind, such a relation is the way to assign the same tags to a collection of objects making a whole with regard to those tags. If we add recursion (nesting), which is very easy to do, that's powerful. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from )
On 2012-11-21 22:45, Jo wrote : Adding 1000 nodes to the OSM DB, which are meant to be deleted once again seems like some sort of pollution. I said: non obtrusive. That is, believed to be harmless. That is, not seen on the map, not retrieved by any application, just appearing on both OSMI and OSMOSE. There are many more than 1000 things in OSM whose destination is destruction. Resembling this Zone 30, all the FIXMEs here and there, like quite a number of admin_level shouldn't be 4 on the borderline of England (without telling what it should be (what do I try next, 8?) ). A French guy on the GPS list said that those POIs saved him money. But I won't fight for that ;-) On the other hand it would be possible to join them to the ways, since the ways need to be split anyway as the maxspeed changes there. Ouch. They are POIs, so, often near the middle of the way, probably at a school door. The best you could do is extend them by 100 m both side. That would mean that the POIs' data wouldn't be flashing, that nobody would care to check and that real bogus data would have been introduced. Kaly nychta, Avrio to proï, Gèrètè ( don' t know much). добрый вечер. пока. Polyglot 2012/11/21 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com On 2012-11-21 14:47, Sander Deryckere wrote : Always take some time, you knew that uploading 1000 POI wasn't going to be appreciated. Uploading bugs to OpenStreetBugs is very easy. A few lines of bash or perl code would do http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetBugs/API_0.6#addPOIexec I'm sorry not to always make every answer personal. I have just been round correcting a 20+ bugs of OSB over a rather large area (low density). Most of what I did was erasing the requests because they had already been corrected outside OSB, even 1 or 2 years ago. Other bugs were saying things like priority is the other way without thinking that if it was corrected outside OSB too, doing what is said would set the priority wrong again. On the other hand, we have just heard of Teddy: kudos, Teddy: I have worked with http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/ hto fix error of routing. 2 months of work and hundreds of roads have been corrected in Wallonia and in the surrounding area. P, it is well advanced... New crater on Earth. http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=routinglon=5.23069lat=50.14893zoom=8overlays=unconnected_major1,unconnected_major2,unconnected_major5,unconnected_minor1,unconnected_minor2,unconnected_minor5 This is why I believe more in OSMI/OSMOSE than in OSB. But the problem isn't in uploading to OSB or OSM, it's checking if there isn't already a speed limit present. The OSM database shouldn't be filled with duplicate data if the data is already okay. For OSB, this might be less of a problem, but it's still not wanted. As I have just explained, someone finding an already corrected problem is just half surprised, the less if he is warned why, and he feels like working terribly fast ;) I betcha some would rush Does anyone see a way on how to achieve this? Да. Jo the Polyglot, winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com as he wrote this afternoon On 2012-11-21 16:53, Jo wrote : I may have a way to upload them to OSB. The API is indeed quite accessible. In order to take out the ones that are already in the OSM data, I can download all the maxspeed=30 with Overpass API and remove the ones which have end nodes near to them. I'll see what I can do with some help from PostGIS. Polyglot I'm standing by, finger on the trigger. When you want. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Zones 30 in Belgium
On 2012-11-19 18:58, Marc Coevoet wrote : On 19-11-12 11:29, Sander Deryckere wrote: You should be interested in the file zone30_BE.asc from the zip. That's just a CSV file with the columns lon, lat, text. So you can just use the GpsBabel command gpsbabel -i CSV -f zone30_BE.asc -x swap -o GPX -F zone30_BE.gpx Something interesting to do: You could make a map with this zones, and work like I did on http://ukwmaps.tk or http://lijnhaltes.tk Of course, you can copy the code: http://dxradio.woelmuis.nl/research/delijn/gemeente/gemeentewww/VLETEREN.txt/ http://dxradio.woelmuis.nl/research/delijn/gemeente/gemeentewww/VLETEREN.txt/index.htm wget http://dxradio.woelmuis.nl/research/delijn/gemeente/gemeentewww/VLETEREN.txt/index.htm and make a table like http://dxradio.woelmuis.nl/research/delijn/gemeente/gemeentewww/VLETEREN.txt/VLETEREN.txt I was doing exactly that while you were writing this, see my message ;-) On 2012-11-19 10:52, Benoit Coumont wrote : Anyway, there are data we could use. But it's saved on a strange file (ov2) non recognized by the famous gspbabel. He use a free (free as a free beer and not as freedom of speech) software for windows called POIedit. I only use Linux on my computers so I couldn't do the conversion. Could somebody do that and post the result on the wiki? I have transfered the POIs to OSM locally and * it's easy to update the real OSM with it * but 1000 points take a long time manually * we could share the job But the real problem is that OSM needs the start and end coordinates of the speed limit and that the POIs contain only one coordinate. I am sending an e-mail to Tagging to ask their advice. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Zones 30 in Belgium
On 2012-11-19 10:52, Benoit Coumont wrote : Hello everybody, I found this file with the localisations of zones 30 in Belgium (streets where the speed is limited to 30 km/h). It's collected by some people on this forum of gps users with the objective to see them on their gps software: http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=123619 I writed to Jean Herman (hermanjea...@hotmail.com), the manager of this collect. He's ok to give this work to the OSM community. He told me the difficulty to organize the management and confess the slow death of this project. He didn't know OpenStreetMap, so I presented to him the advantages of OSM could give for this work. But I'm not sure he's ready or able to use OSM on his gps. Anyway, there are data we could use. But it's saved on a strange file (ov2) non recognized by the famous gspbabel. He use a free (free as a free beer and not as freedom of speech) software for windows called POIedit. I only use Linux on my computers so I couldn't do the conversion. Could somebody do that and post the result on the wiki? What do you mean, only Linux? With only Ubuntu, I ran the following command perl -pe 's/^^(.*), +(.*),.*\] +([^(]*)\(?([^)]*).*\@.*/$2\t$1\tZones30\/zone30.png\t32,32\t0,0\t$3\t$4/' zone30_BE.utf8 POIs.txt that transformed the file to this format http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/Zones30/POIs.txt to be used to produce this POI map http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/OpenLayers_Vector_fast.html?zoom=11lat=50.53654lon=5.53611layers=BFTFT. Other POIs demos via *+* button. I have a version with Google and Bing as backgrounds, but as they're earning money with that and give me nothing of it, I don't show these maps ;-) The only other system does most probably not run that command and it doesn't know UTF-8 either. I've had to convert the asc file to UTF-8. All the files are here http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/Zones30/. After installing Wine, you will probably be able to run POIedit. If someone put this on the OSM database for his neighborhood, for his district and for his city, we could get quickly a map of speed limitations... Itoworld published a map to see that : http://www.itoworld.com/map/35#fullscreen Unfortunately, one shouldn't write a file and use it to map on OSM. One should update OSM and produce the files with it. To update OSM, one must know the coordinates for the start and end of the limit. I'm particularly convinced convinced that speed moderation is the best way to rediscover conviviality in our residential streets. Also, I added the 6 zones 30, corresponding to the seven school sites, in my neighborhood (St-Léonard, Liège) to demonstrate to politicals and residents that a wide zone 30 extended area would be more readable and consistent. An European petition is just launched to invite EU to take position. Informations and signs are on this website : http://30kmh.eu I first thought of advising you to write a howto update OSM for speed limits, but that's too dangerous to be done by anyone as it involves splitting roads. Rather, I would explain the people how to record the beginning and end GPS decimal coordinates of the limits while waiting for the children and to use OpenStreetBugs http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetBugs: go to here http://openstreetbugs.schokokeks.org/?zoom=8lat=50.48674lon=4.61604layers=B0T , high-zoom to the street, click on it and enter modification requests limite 30 km/h LL.L l.l. Or possibly street number, nnn m north, sss m south. I volunteer to make updates if I'm not the only one and if there is some way to send me warning e-mail without publishing my e-mail address, such as a mailing list. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Arrondissement Verviers boundary
On 2012-11-08 16:34, Sander Deryckere wrote : Does everyone agree with this? OK, I trust you, but read below On 2012-11-11 12:36, Ben Laenen wrote : On Sunday 11 November 2012 01:39:57 A.Pirard.Papou wrote: On 2012-11-08 16:46, Ben Laenen wrote : On Thursday 08 November 2012 16:34:23 Sander Deryckere wrote: Hi, I'm trying to organise the boundaries a bit, there's not a lot of work on it, so it's basically checking if there are no problems. There is a problem I have found with Verviers though. If you look at the relation (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1407211) you see that as subareas, the Arondissement of Verviers has a French speaking part, and the German community. That French speaking part get's a strange boundary type (boundary=administrative_fraction), combined with an admin_level=7 tag and the German speaking part has a boundary=political tag. German Community should be a boundary=administrative + admin_level=5 Who keeps changing it to a boundary=political on the wiki anyway? As administrative boundaries should be nested nicely, I propose to delete the boundary 2436189, and to use the municipalities of the Arrondissement of Verviers as subareas. Just as with any other arrondissement. Does everyone agree with this? Boundaries don't need to be nested. In our country it's impossible to do so anyway. What do you mean? That there should be a single relation called Belgium or that all ways should be at level 8? I mean that (for example) there's really no problem if two enitities of the same admin_level overlap a certain area (so that area belongs two both entities). E.g. Brussels belonging to both Flemish and French Community. Or if an entity with admin_level=8 doesn't sit nicely inside an entity with admin_level=6. E.g. German speaking community being part of the Liege province. Or French community not spanning the entire Liege province. Ben So, it's about correct nesting and overlapping... I think that programs doing checks could finger-point at overlapping areas (within a relation) and that they could suddenly start recursing to find overlapping subareas without warning. Belgian (boundary=) administrative areas are 2+1 regions, in which provinces, in which arrondissements, in which municipalities According to the present map: Relation: Belgium (52411) boundary = administrative Relation Flanders (53134) as subarea Relation Brussels-Capital Region (54094) as subarea Relation Wallonia (90348) as subarea Relation Flemish Community (53136) as subarea Relation French Community (78967) as subarea Relation German-speaking Community (2425209) as subarea As the territory is fully covered by the administrative entities I mention above, there is no room for more "Belgium" administrative areas than what is in black in this relation. If you add more, you can't avoid overlapping. According to the definition from the horse's mouth : "La Communauté française exerce ses compétences dans les provinces wallonnes (à l'exception des communes germanophones) et à Bruxelles." Is "la communauté française" a territory or a government? It's less than clear, but is anything clear in that field? I think we have these options: remove all XXX-C-s areas altogether (Like Google does ;-) ) (1) consider that the XXX-C-s are not in the administrative tree named Belgium but that they are in a different administrative tree e.g. "Linguistic communities" remove the XXX-C-s relations from any tree, make one per language, allowing overlap and, if we are that kind, more languages in a cultural style (2) May language borderlines (ways) share region borderlines if they are not nested? In principle not, because, according to the theoreticians, those ways are supposed to be related to just one area (on each side) from which they pick the boundary information. The ideal method to is to make multilinestrings (3) that nest another border just like an arrondissement border would nest municipality borders. But present software does not support way nesting (except hiking.waymarkedtrails.org I was told). When will we push that wagon to unleash many projects? Cheers, André. (1) that avoids to s
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Lost property: one forest, messages, Bing
On 2012-11-13 21:21, Renaud MICHEL wrote : That's me, I generally answer the messages I receive via OSM, I just checker and I had forgotten one (3 months ago), but I don't think it was from you. I'm glad I've found you here because I've already met you in many places on the map as a very active person, congratulations. I may be mistaken because I have sky high piles of e-mail. I'll contact you privately when I have time. I know, but I have compared bing image position with GPS traces and, at least near Liège, it is quite accurate (to a few meters). Actually, the old yahoo images that were used some years ago were a lot less accurate And I had to reposition them according to (my and other's) GPS traces. I'm sure you're doing your best, but the problem for everybody is that Bing just *cannot* be accurate *where* it has two different offsets according to zoom. I have read that different zooms may even mix pictures taken at very different dates, so that things may even disappear by zooming (would people start (or stop?) swallowing drugs because of that?). The best idea is to always remember to zoom Bing to check what one has traced. And to keep named JOSM offset corrections of the places where you have been. And to warn people, that's what I'm doing. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Lost property: one forest, messages, Bing
While dealing with borders, I discovered this unidentified multipolygon http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/150921 fortuitously. Then I loaded the members and I found landuse = forest on one, that makes it correct on the map. Isn't landuse = forest supposed to be tagged on the relation instead? I've never been able to contact Renaud Michel on various subjects. To send an e-mail to someone, I must fill a web form asking her?/him to reply so that I know his e-mail address to which I send my e-mail (not only OSM). Does anybody know when someone will invent a Web button next to the form to do that automatically, or do I miss something? One of my messages is to beware of Bing. At higher (closer) zooms, it may have in some places an erroneous offset http://www.google.be/search?q=bing+offset+%28higher+OR+lower%29+zoom. I think that the lower zooms are always the correct ones. JOSM allows to set an offset to compensate. Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Arrondissement Verviers boundary
On 2012-11-08 16:46, Ben Laenen wrote : On Thursday 08 November 2012 16:34:23 Sander Deryckere wrote: As administrative boundaries should be nested nicely, I propose to delete the boundary 2436189, and to use the municipalities of the Arrondissement of Verviers as subareas. Just as with any other arrondissement. Boundaries don't need to be nested. In our country it's impossible to do so anyway. What do you mean? That there should be a single relation called Belgium or that all ways should be at level 8? Cheers, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Arrondissement Verviers boundary
On 2012-11-08 16:34, Sander Deryckere wrote : Hi, I'm trying to organise the boundaries a bit, there's not a lot of work on it, so it's basically checking if there are no problems. There is a problem I have found with Verviers though. If you look at the relation (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1407211) you see that as subareas, the Arondissement of Verviers has a French speaking part, and the German community. That French speaking part get's a strange boundary type (boundary=administrative_fraction), combined with an admin_level=7 tag and the German speaking part has a boundary=political tag. As administrative boundaries should be nested nicely, I propose to delete the boundary 2436189, and to use the municipalities of the Arrondissement of Verviers as subareas. Just as with any other arrondissement. Does everyone agree with this? Regards, Sander You should contact mdri about this (I'm bcc:ing this to his private address). Marc has done a marvelous job coordinating many border tracing people over 4 years!!! Unfortunately, some French guy has come around to dictate his views without the discussions we do, and that's the reason why you probably don't know him. But we do know him too much :-( Marc will "politically guide you" so that your updates will not be undone without warning. (I praise the lot of work that that French guy made. I regret the method and the human aspect.) Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Arrondissement Verviers boundary
On 2012-11-08 18:58, Jo wrote : On talk-fr he's such a know-it-all, but not all of his 'wisdom' is always appreciated, to put it mildly. There's a bit too much of it too. Impossible to read all of it, even if one would try. Anyway, Belgium's situation is complicated enough without him coming to introduce errors. Would I write a message to him, or could somebody who speaks French properly/natively do that? know-it-all is the right word if you add arrogant. I've had an off-track discussion where he methodically denied every word I said. He said that the Julian calendar has no leap years, that there are no negative dates (would we be in year 13 700 000 000 ± ?) that the Romans had no number 0 because they used negation (yet in my mind, nihil positively means 0, what they lacked is the digit 0) etc... He almost called me a twit. To which I would answer with the French word twat ;-) You just can't debate, even less compromise with him. On 2012-11-08 19:17, Jo wrote : All I know is that he is largely ignored on talk-fr. So I don't think anybody knows how to handle him. My impression is that he became a little bit less verbose, but not by much. If it gets to the point where it starts looking like an edit war, we could always ask pnorman to warn and subsequently block him for a while. Knowing him, I think that's the good idea. Warning him that if he doesn't come and discuss Belgian matters here and follow our decisions he continues to stress very nice contributors, being coercive instead of cooperative we will have to resort to what you mention. It's worse that an edit war, he depressed and discouraged ever so nice people. I've tried to mitigate. No way. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
