Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello Marck, On Tue, 12 May 2020 10:22:30 +0100 GMT (12-May-20, 16:22 +0700 GMT), Marck Pearlstone wrote: > On 11 May 2020 at 04:00 Thomas Fernandez wrote and made these points >>> I have been experiencing a 15 second delay between a message editor >>> window opening (new message, reply or forward - all the same) during >>> which the whole TB interface is frozen. > ... TF>> It happens to me when replying to large HTML mails. Large in the sense TF>> of many replies. > It's not that or anything close because: > 1. I rarely use HTML mail - extremely rarely! OK, then the cause for your problem must be different from that for my problem. > 2. I abhor top-posting soup. Yes, I use it for work email, but it not > relevant to this issue Right, but I don't think top-posting causes the problem here. I only brought this up because it means that the whole email thread in HTML is in the message, which likely multiplies my problem. But since your problem is caused by something else, I seem to have kidnapped your thread. I will open another thread for the HTML problem. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
On 11 May 2020 at 04:00 Thomas Fernandez wrote and made these points >> I have been experiencing a 15 second delay between a message editor >> window opening (new message, reply or forward - all the same) during >> which the whole TB interface is frozen. ... TF> It happens to me when replying to large HTML mails. Large in the sense TF> of many replies. It's not that or anything close because: 1. I rarely use HTML mail - extremely rarely! 2. I abhor top-posting soup. Yes, I use it for work email, but it not relevant to this issue ... -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 pgpkrQeKRA2K8.pgp Description: PGP signature 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Title: Re: Delay when creating new message Hello Lüko, On Tue, 12 May 2020 07:18:25 +0200 GMT (12-May-20, 12:18 +0700 GMT), Lüko Willms wrote: You'll just have to believe me. Then stay away, do it your own way, but stop complaining that the reforming of several megabytes of HTML code does take time. What you complain about, is all of your own making. Bye bye. I am glad that you don't work in customer service. Your attitude is not appreciated, please refrain from such remarks. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello everybody, on Dienstag, 12. Mai 2020 at 03:11 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Delay when creating new message You'll just have to believe me. Then stay away, do it your own way, but stop complaining that the reforming of several megabytes of HTML code does take time. What you complain about, is all of your own making. Bye bye. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Title: Re: Delay when creating new message Hello Lüko, On Mon, 11 May 2020 18:51:15 +0200 GMT (11-May-20, 23:51 +0700 GMT), Lüko Willms wrote: While replying to an HTML message, quoting should be done by BLOCKQUOTE, not by TABLE https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1217 Bugnore added to the second one. is that you, with the user name "tombkk"? That is correct. Greetings from Bangkok. I can't see any relation to the issue reported in #1217. I just used another angle that you, the user's view instead of the developer's. But from what you wrote there, I guess that your problem with delays creating a reply is the bad habit to copy the full correspondence with each single message which has ever been sent in this thread, unabridged with all the images etc. I consider this a very unpolite habit. Imagine you are sitting together in a conference, and each person, after delivering her or his contribution, repeats all those contributions which the others have made before, including all the grammatical errors and eh and ahm and what have you. It does not matter what you think, you have an IT view and I am in the service industry. We have to quote the whole email thread and add our reply at the top. If someone starts to cut something out, you will immediately be accused of trying to hide something: "Why did you cut my instruction of 2 February?". Difference industries have different norms. You'll just have to believe me. One should only copy what is needed to understand which part of the received message one is replying to. Then you will have no delays before you can start writing. I know it wouldn't cause a delay if I worked your way. However, the software is there to support the work and not the other way around. Besides, TB is the only MUA I know with this problem. Coming back to your remark that this problem is not related to your bug, let's discuss this when the bug is fixed. I think the problem I am describing is a result of the bug. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7 (NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB This time, when I hit 'enter' in order to reply inline, your text is split, Yester, that was not the case and I was still within the box. I wonder why the editor behaves sometimes this way, sometimes another way. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello everybody, on Montag, 11. Mai 2020 at 16:24 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Delay when creating new message While replying to an HTML message, quoting should be done by BLOCKQUOTE, not by TABLE https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1217 Bugnore added to the second one. is that you, with the user name "tombkk"? I can't see any relation to the issue reported in #1217. But from what you wrote there, I guess that your problem with delays creating a reply is the bad habit to copy the full correspondence with each single message which has ever been sent in this thread, unabridged with all the images etc. I consider this a very unpolite habit. Imagine you are sitting together in a conference, and each person, after delivering her or his contribution, repeats all those contributions which the others have made before, including all the grammatical errors and eh and ahm and what have you. One should only copy what is needed to understand which part of the received message one is replying to. Then you will have no delays before you can start writing. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Title: Re: Delay when creating new message Hello Lüko, On Mon, 11 May 2020 14:02:49 +0200 GMT (11-May-20, 19:02 +0700 GMT), Lüko Willms wrote: Hello everybody, on Montag, 11. Mai 2020 at 11:57 Andrew Savchenko wrote re Delay when creating new message > Monday, May 11, 2020, 6:55:06 PM, you wrote: >> but the Procrustean bed of creating nested HTML TABLEs I mean these items: HTML viewer does not render BLOCKQUOTE https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1216 While replying to an HTML message, quoting should be done by BLOCKQUOTE, not by TABLE https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1217 Bugnore added to the second one. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello everybody, on Montag, 11. Mai 2020 at 11:57 Andrew Savchenko wrote re Delay when creating new message > Monday, May 11, 2020, 6:55:06 PM, you wrote: >> but the Procrustean bed of creating nested HTML TABLEs I mean these items: HTML viewer does not render BLOCKQUOTE https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1216 While replying to an HTML message, quoting should be done by BLOCKQUOTE, not by TABLE https://bt.ritlabs.com/view.php?id=1217 Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Title: Re: Delay when creating new message Hello Lüko, On Mon, 11 May 2020 11:25:06 +0200 GMT (11-May-20, 16:25 +0700 GMT), Lüko Willms wrote: > I do believe that there is something in the HTML code that > caused the TB HTML editor to choke but I have not reported it because > I cannot put my finger on it. Does not happen will all business > partners' emails. Creating a HTML message is certainly slower than plain text. Especially with TheBat! not using proper quotes, but the Procrustean bed of creating nested HTML TABLEs (shudder — one of the reasons why I do not recomment TheBat to others). I don't know enough about HTML to confirm about these nested tables, but it doesn't sound right and may well be the reason for the editor slowing down. It uses too much CPU time and RAM when the mails get longer. It also makes sense that it gets better again when I reply with the plaintext editor once - the tables get deleted. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello everybody, on Montag, 11. Mai 2020 at 05:00 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Delay when creating new message > My normal setting is to reply to HTML mails in HTML (to not offend my > business partners by cutting out their corporate identity in all its > glory). I do reply — as in this case — only with quoting those pieces of text which are relevant to understand what I am replying to. Either by marking that piece of text, or cutting out everything not needed; this concerns certainly images including company logos. > I do believe that there is something in the HTML code that > caused the TB HTML editor to choke but I have not reported it because > I cannot put my finger on it. Does not happen will all business > partners' emails. Creating a HTML message is certainly slower than plain text. Especially with TheBat! not using proper quotes, but the Procrustean bed of creating nested HTML TABLEs (shudder — one of the reasons why I do not recomment TheBat to others). Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello Marck, On Sun, 10 May 2020 11:02:46 +0100 GMT (10-May-20, 17:02 +0700 GMT), Marck Pearlstone wrote: > Greetings Bat Fans, > I have been experiencing a 15 second delay between a message editor > window opening (new message, reply or forward - all the same) during > which the whole TB interface is frozen. > This has become a source of extreme frustration for me. Hitting > "Reply" and typing your thoughts is a distant memory for me. > Is anyone else seeing this strange behaviour? > I'm writing here, but this has been true for me for a long time now, > over several releases. I can't even remember at what point this > started. I can confirm this for many versions, and it happens often. I do not use GPG. It happens to me when replying to large HTML mails. Large in the sense of many replies. Convos can be back and forth for weeks, that's nothing unusual. But it isn't the Reply-To header: When it takes too long to open the editor, I just choose Plaintext in the editor, and the replies (or the openig of the editor, rather) on the next messages are fast again. Many business partners have set their Outlook so that the replies are always in HTML (they want to show their logo and corporate identity in their emails), so after a while, the replies slow down again. My normal setting is to reply to HTML mails in HTML (to not offend my business partners by cutting out their corporate identity in all its glory). I do believe that there is something in the HTML code that caused the TB HTML editor to choke but I have not reported it because I cannot put my finger on it. Does not happen will all business partners' emails. (As a remark with regards to another thread: I cannot ask the business partners to change their settings. It also won't help to point out that this problem means nothing because Outlook is only one of many email clients.) -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! Version 9.1.18.2 (BETA) (64-bit) under Windows 10.0 Build 18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello everybody, on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 18:37 Marck Pearlstone wrote re Delay when creating new message LW>> Besides, for writing and sending a message, this goes via SMTP, LW>> not IMAP4, just as also POP3 is only for receiving. > Ah - you'd have thought so. Except... the outbound message is > originally created in the Outbox IMAP folder as a draft message. Only > the completed message will be sent via SMTP. I found the test message which I sent today in MESSAGES.TBB in OUTBOX directory of the IMAP account on my PC. But it is not visible from TheBat! But no recent entry concerning IMAP in the ACCOUNT_LOG.TXT of that account. I have set that IMAP account to connect to the IMAP server only when I explicitely ask to connect. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello everybody, on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 15:35 Andrew Savchenko wrote re Delay when creating new message >> This shows a lot of activity reading and writing the account_log.txt > I have no such file. There should be one in each subdirectory per account, there where your mail is kept, in the subdirectories INBOX, OUTBOX, SENT, TRASH, and fils ACCOUNT.*** with *** being CFN, FLB, HIS, M_D, M_R, QTB, RND, SRB, and VCF (some of these might be obsolete). In the directory pointed to by HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Ritlabs\The Bat!\Working Directory Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello Marck, Sunday, May 10, 2020, 11:37:35 AM, you wrote: > A good question. That may be the issue - I will try "Stay logged in" > as the setting if I can find it... which I can't... Maybe try Account/Properties/Mail Management "When inactive disconnect after x seconds." Remove the checkmark -- Best regards, Stuartmailto:skcu...@fastmail.fm 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
On 10 May 2020 at 17:23 Lüko Willms wrote and made these points LW> on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 14:50 Marck Pearlstone wrote LW> re Delay when creating new message ... >> 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - Connecting to IMAP server >> mail.silverstones.com on port 143 ... >> 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - Connecting to IMAP server >> mail.silverstones.com on port 143 ... >> 10/05/2020, 13:17:28: IMAP - Disconnected LW> I wonder why your system is not logged in to IMAP all the time, LW> and then why there TheBat! is logging in to the IMAP4 server twice within 6 seconds. A good question. That may be the issue - I will try "Stay logged in" as the setting if I can find it... which I can't... LW> Besides, for writing and sending a message, this goes via SMTP, LW> not IMAP4, just as also POP3 is only for receiving. Ah - you'd have thought so. Except... the outbound message is originally created in the Outbox IMAP folder as a draft message. Only the completed message will be sent via SMTP. LW> I just created and sent a message via one of my IMAP accounts, LW> just for testing, and there was no need to connect via IMAP4. LW> No delay at all in creating the message and sending it. This is why I am not going to create a bug report... unless anyone else has this experience. -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 pgpEDQTZW73BZ.pgp Description: PGP signature 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello everybody, on Sonntag, 10. Mai 2020 at 14:50 Marck Pearlstone wrote re Delay when creating new message > I've checked logs but see nothing to indicate a struggle. > 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - Connecting to IMAP server > mail.silverstones.com on port 143 > 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - Connected to IMAP server > (mail.silverstones.com) >>10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready > 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - Authenticating (user: > "ma...@silverstones.com", method: "LOGIN")... > 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - IMAP server authentication OK, server says > "LOGIN completed" > 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - Connecting to IMAP server > mail.silverstones.com on port 143 > 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - Connected to IMAP server > (mail.silverstones.com) >>10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready > 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - Authenticating (user: > "ma...@silverstones.com", method: "LOGIN")... > 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - IMAP server authentication OK, server says > "LOGIN completed" > 10/05/2020, 13:17:28: IMAP - Disconnected I wonder why your system is not logged in to IMAP all the time, and then why there TheBat! is logging in to the IMAP4 server twice within 6 seconds. Besides, for writing and sending a message, this goes via SMTP, not IMAP4, just as also POP3 is only for receiving. I just created and sent a message via one of my IMAP accounts, just for testing, and there was no need to connect via IMAP4. No delay at all in creating the message and sending it. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.9.12 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
On 10 May 2020 at 14:35 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points >> This shows a lot of activity reading and writing the account_log.txt AS> I have no such file. Searching this mailing list returns two results, AS> one from Gwen back in October 2019 and another one from David Elliot 9 AS> days ago. This makes me think writing to "account_log.txt" is optional AS> and can be disabled. I found this: > The Bat! v6.0.0.19 BETA is available at ... > [*] Account log is now saved to ACCOUNT_LOG.TXT, not to > ACCOUNT.LOG as before (Alpha issue) I will look for more ways to reduce the traffic to this log. I already found and turned off the account "Verbose Logging" toggle. It didn't improve anything. AS> Perhaps try launching Bat directly from CMD or PowerShell: AS> `./thebat64.exe` without flags. I don't load with flags anyway, but this instance has been executed from cmd. No change in starting this reply - a long pause and an unresponsive window. AS> Next, give a go to `/STARTUP_TIMING_LOG` and `/BENCHMARK_STARTUP_TIME`. AS> Former will create "ex_log.txt" file to analyse. While I could do this, I'm not getting the relevance. TB starts up smoothly in a couple of seconds. The only lag I get in the whole system is when I open a new message edit window - either for a reply or a new message. -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 pgp7aeLnENsSZ.pgp Description: PGP signature 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
On 10 May 2020 at 12:42 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points AS> Sunday, May 10, 2020, 8:48:31 PM, you wrote: >> I turned it back on manually to complete this reply. AS> ...which arrived unsigned. I did turn back on the "Sign when complete" switch and it did prompt me for my GPG signing passphrase. How strange! AS> On the more serious note, you might try in-built logging functionality I've checked logs but see nothing to indicate a struggle. 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - Connecting to IMAP server mail.silverstones.com on port 143 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - Connected to IMAP server (mail.silverstones.com) >10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - Authenticating (user: "ma...@silverstones.com", method: "LOGIN")... 10/05/2020, 13:16:40: IMAP - IMAP server authentication OK, server says "LOGIN completed" 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - Connecting to IMAP server mail.silverstones.com on port 143 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - Connected to IMAP server (mail.silverstones.com) >10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - silverstones.com IMAP4rev1 MDaemon 8.0.3 ready 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - Authenticating (user: "ma...@silverstones.com", method: "LOGIN")... 10/05/2020, 13:16:46: IMAP - IMAP server authentication OK, server says "LOGIN completed" 10/05/2020, 13:17:28: IMAP - Disconnected No exceptions at this point. AS> as well as the `Procmon.exe` from Sysinternals. Latter will show you AS> roughly which call takes longer than expected. This shows a lot of activity reading and writing the account_log.txt file and opening TBN files 100s (if not 1000s) of times. The longest pregnant pause is 4.2 seconds spent creating an ACCOUNT.FLB file. Other than that, there are a couple of functions that take up to 500ms to perform, while the rest is time taken doing 1000s of file read/write operations. AS> Next logical step would be WinDBG. Yeah - no. I'm not doing that - too much like hard work!! -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 pgpLLiW1shhEd.pgp Description: PGP signature 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
On 10 May 2020 at 11:08 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points >> Is anyone else seeing this strange behaviour? AS> A bit of a shot in the dark, but have you tried with GPG disabled? Just tried (not easy - it's in my QT's to enable it). No difference. I turned it back on manually to complete this reply. -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Delay when creating new message
Hello Marck, Sunday, May 10, 2020, 7:32:46 PM, you wrote: > Is anyone else seeing this strange behaviour? A bit of a shot in the dark, but have you tried with GPG disabled? -- Regards, A 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
