subject:"Re\: \[TruthTalk\] The door to understanding"

Lance wrote:
 ONE WAY of thinking about this:
 Who He is takes priority over and,
 is determinative of, all other considerations.
 Is it possible, David, that you have it
 ...backwards?

Christ certainly is more important, but our understanding of him grows and 
grows.  I was talking about foundations, in the same way that Jesus was in 
the following passage:

John 3:12
(12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye 
believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

If a person claims to understand all the mysteries of heaven and even Christ 
himself, yet he has not love (continues to sin), he is nothing.

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




The concept of sin can get very complicated, hence the reason for the 
law. However, compared to the infinite God and the mystery of God in the 
flesh, it is child's play. God began revealing himself with the law and 
sin for good reason. It provides the foundation for understanding heavenly 
things.

The bottom line is that even if youclaim to understand all the 
mystery of Christ, if you testify that you are still addicted to sin, then 
Christ has profited you nothing. Salvation does not come through 
understanding Christ. Salvationcomes from a relationship with 
theSpirit of JesusChrist. Our understanding of him will 
follownaturally from that.

David Miller.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:33 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical 
  record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined 
  and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of 
  "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!" 
  
  Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the 
  other. 
  
  If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many 
  Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this 
  subject. Extremely complicated. 
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ONE WAY of thinking about this: 
Who He is takes priority over and, is  determinative of, all other 
considerations. Is it possible, David, that you  have it 
...backwards?  - Original Message -  From: "David 
Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
<TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46  
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding   
  John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ?  
   Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one 
person. I'm not   sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus 
Christ. The subject of sin,   however, is much more basic and 
easy to understand. Furthermore, it is   the   only 
criteria of God's judgment. When we al l stand before Jesus Christ,  
 the   Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for 
the deeds that we   have   done. We will not take a 
test on Christology (how well we developed our   understanding 
of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than   our 
philosophy of the nature of Christ. David 
Miller. - Original Message -  
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM   Subject: Re: 
[TruthTalk] The door to understanding As for 
Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.   
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody 
  else   is of much more serious concern than those 
whose Christology seems   defective. DM
 I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of  
 Christological   didache is a definite predictor of coming 
and pronounced error. If your   Christology is wrong or false, 
your view of sin will mirror that   circumstance.   
David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we 
  cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to 
anyone but   myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer 
to full victory than   David !! What think ye?   
  jd 
-- Original message --   From: "David 
Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Nobody who has 
ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have   
been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a 
  similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry 
abo ut it too   much. 
For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way 
  beyond   that of most, IF by most you mean 
other believers. I do lay claim to   'knowing' in a special 
way that is beyond that of the world. It is called   the 
Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this?
 As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as 
sin.   Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin 
and so is everybody   else   is of much more 
serious concern than those whose Christology seems   
defective. David Mil ler.  
 - Original Message - 
  From: Lance Muir   To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 
2006 7:19 AM   Subje ct: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding Anyone here watch hockey? 
Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a   lit

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

JD wrote:
 It's just surprising to realize that David took
 time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and
 software sales to research as much as posible
 his old buddy,  John Smithson.

LOL.  John, I did not research as much as possible or I would have made 
phone calls and found out a whole lot more.  Then I would have REALLY 
dazzled somebody.  As it is, when you mentioned Sanger, it only took me a 
few minutes to look up the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church. 
I'm just not sure if that is your actual church.  I was not real comfortable 
calling him without talking to you first.  I was not sure how you would feel 
about that.  Do you attend this church, or another one in the Fresno area? 
You were the one who brought up your speaking from a leadership position, 
hence my curiosity.

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

John wrote:
 Why would you go to the trouble of checking
 me out ?   What if David decides that I need
 to be exposed and consults with these leaders?

Exposed for what?  I don't see that there is anything to expose.  You said 
that you were speaking as one in leadership.  You identified your gift as 
one of being a pastor.  This created a curiosity in me to understand more of 
your leadership role in your church.  Don't make more of it than that.  If I 
did speak about you, John, you can be sure that I would only speak of the 
good which I find in you.  It would be a sin to speak evil of a brother in 
Christ, or to gossip about him in a way that would cast him in a negative 
light.

John wrote:
 Please note my willingness to be open with
 your questioning and your refusal to be equally
 so in regards to a number of your claims over
 the past two years.

I'm not aware of my making any claims much less of being uncooperative 
concerning questions about such claims.  Can you tell me what you are 
talking about?

If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church 
and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there.  You said you were a 
pastor in Sanger.  Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other 
fellowship?  If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to 
communicate, then please clarify.  Thanks.

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-17 Thread Lance Muir


Say it to me one more time, David, please. I, David Miller a. do not
practice sin (have no besetting sin(s) b. have days, weeks, months wherein I
do not sin in thought, word or deed whatsoever. Does the foregoing reflect 
the reality of your life?


thanks,

Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 17, 2006 10:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Lance wrote:

ONE WAY of thinking about this:
Who He is takes priority over and,
is determinative of, all other considerations.
Is it possible, David, that you have it
...backwards?


Christ certainly is more important, but our understanding of him grows and
grows.  I was talking about foundations, in the same way that Jesus was in
the following passage:

John 3:12
(12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye
believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

If a person claims to understand all the mysteries of heaven and even
Christ
himself, yet he has not love (continues to sin), he is nothing.

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.




--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-17 Thread knpraise


In what way does the Law unravel the complications of the "sin" concept? 
I see the law giving definition to sin and , thus, allowing us to think in terms of "transgression" There are humdreds (perhaps) of ways to sin, but in the face of stated law, there is only one transgressionper imperative.

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



The concept of sin can get very complicated, hence the reason for the law. However, compared to the infinite God and the mystery of God in the flesh, it is child's play. God began revealing himself with the law and sin for good reason. It provides the foundation for understanding heavenly things.

The bottom line is that even if youclaim to understand all the mystery of Christ, if you testify that you are still addicted to sin, then Christ has profited you nothing. Salvation does not come through understanding Christ. Salvationcomes from a relationship with theSpirit of JesusChrist. Our understanding of him will follownaturally from that.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!" 

Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the other. 

If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this subject. Extremely complicated. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is  determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you  have it ...backwards?  - Original Message -  From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not   sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin,   however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is   the   only criteria of God's judgment. When we al
 l stand before Jesus Christ,   the   Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we   have   done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our   understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than   our philosophy of the nature of Christ. David Miller. - Original Message -   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.   Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody   else   is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems   defective. DM I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of   Christological   didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your   Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that   circumstance.   David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we   cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but   myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than   David !! What think ye? jd -- Original message --   From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have   been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a   similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry ab
o ut it too   much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way   beyond   that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to   'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called   the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.   Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody   else   is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems   defective. David Mil ler.   - Original Message -----   From: Lance Muir   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org   Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM   Sub
je ct: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here wat

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-17 Thread knpraise

David, we are not talking about "curiosity." We are talking about grossly inappropriate and even deceitful behavior. Leave it alone. Stick to discussion issues and leave personal BS endeavors alone.

Your closing sentences are deceptive AT BEST, David. There is nothing that I have said about my service as pastor that would cause you to believeit necesssary to stick your nose into my life. Why would you think my credentials as pastor are with Four Square? And why would your curiosity cause you to think thatyoushould take time out of your sales day to research my background in this regard and even contemplate calling some of these individuals !! What were you going to ask or say to them? Since it is about me, I think that I should be the first to know. or is this something that fundies simply do not believe ? I would argue that I have been more forthright and open, in this forum, that anyoneelse. You certainly have not been such. Many claims -- little to no evidence. And when askedfor specifics -- more talk and no evidence. Now, do not come bac
k with your typical host of challenging questions? I do not care about your life and whether or not you are factual in your presentation. I did make a big deal about your PhD thing, but that was because you finally got me angry with your constant put downs about my ability to write and my education.
Turns out you didn't have one. but you did appear before a PhD review committee, right? And one of those porfessors, what was his name again, ruled against you because of your creationist views. You want to do tit for tat. ... best be careful , you just might get your tat in a wringer.

I became a pastor, David, when you were four years old. Once a pastor -- always a pastor.But I am "papered" with an evangelistic association, as well. My best work is with the Fairbanks Avenue Fellowship, Their number is 559- 875-1465. Give tham a call. You might recognize the number BECAUSE IT IS MINE!!

So move on

John

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD wrote: It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. LOL. John, I did not research "as much as possible" or I would have made phone calls and found out a whole lot more. Then I would have REALLY dazzled somebody. As it is, when you mentioned Sanger, it only took me a few minutes to look up the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church. I'm just not sure if that is your actual church. I was not real comfortable calling him without talking to you first. I was not sure how you would feel about that. Do you attend this church, or another one in the Fresno area? You were the
one who brought up your speaking from a leadership position, hence my curiosity. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-17 Thread Lance Muir

Huh? YOU apparently see this as an understandable response.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 17, 2006 10:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Lance wrote:

ONE WAY of thinking about this:
Who He is takes priority over and,
is determinative of, all other considerations.
Is it possible, David, that you have it
...backwards?

Christ certainly is more important, but our understanding of him grows and
grows.  I was talking about foundations, in the same way that Jesus was in
the following passage:

John 3:12
(12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye
believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

If a person claims to understand all the mysteries of heaven and even 
Christ

himself, yet he has not love (continues to sin), he is nothing.

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-17 Thread knpraise

Picture the format of a typical political cartoon. See David Miller towering over a rather humble looking John Smithson. David's eyes are narrow and his rather bushy eyebrows have a devilish slant to them. A smile is on his face, one which some would confuse with a snear. His hands are behind his back --- clutching a large butcher knife dripping with the fresh blood of a previous opponentas he speaks these words:

"If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to communicate, then please clarify. Thanks."

Get the picture?

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: Why would you go to the trouble of checking me out ? What if David decides that I need to be exposed and consults with these leaders? Exposed for what? I don't see that there is anything to expose. You said that you were speaking as one in leadership. You identified your gift as one of being a pastor. This created a curiosity in me to understand more of your leadership role in your church. Don't make more of it than that. If I did speak about you, John, you can be sure that I would only speak of the good which I find in you. It would be a sin to speak evil of a brother in Christ, or to gossip about him in a way that would cast him in a negative light. John wrote: Please n
ote my willingness to be open with your questioning and your refusal to be equally so in regards to a number of your claims over the past two years. I'm not aware of my making any "claims" much less of being uncooperative concerning questions about such claims. Can you tell me what you are talking about? If you are open to my questions, then please tell us the name of your church and the pastors with whom you are in leadership there. You said you were a pastor in Sanger. Is that pastor of Sanger Foursquare Church or some other fellowship? If I am misunderstanding something that you were trying to communicate, then please clarify. Thanks. David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want
to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I do not but, could put you in touch with the ministry that distributes the 
'package'. His teaching was entitled 'Foundational Principles and Prophetic 
Teaching to Equip the Body of Christ for City Transformation' See 
www.makingeverythingnew.com



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 14:39
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Do you have it posted on a website somewhere?  How can we hear it?

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


That which he (they actually- Martin Scott of England  Marcus Splitt of
Germany) prophetically uttered was recorded. It's fairly lengthy.


- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 09:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







[Original Message]
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Addendum:

I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet  prophetically
gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically
gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded

to

prophesy over the store and, several persons in it.


cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be
specific please? Thanks Lance.




--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.




--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know

how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

ONE WAY of saying this: God Himself is the authority and the Scriptures are 
one of His interlocaters.

i
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 14:41
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Yeah, you guys must be paranoid.  I have no idea what that something else 
in

my mind might even be.  No wonder people say that I tend to be naive.  I'm
still waiting for your answer about Scripture and authority.  Why dodge 
such

basic questions?

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Well,  interesting qustion.   Two examples.  Dean recently told G not to 
be

belligerent.  I thought to myself  -  is this an order from King Moderator
or just a passing statement in the course of debate.  We no longer know, 
do

we?

Secondly,  when DM questioned me about scripture and the authority of 
church

leadership  --  there was the distinct notion, on my part, that something
else was going on in the mind of David.   Paranoid?  Probably.  Without 
good

reason?  I think not.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Am I the only one to have noticed this, John?

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller

To:
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about?

 David Miller.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir

 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I
 see
 this more from DM with those le ss than veiled threats  warnings
 directed
 at
 those who dare to disagree with him.

 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I
 am
 tired of it.

 cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf?
 Others
 do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

 I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am
 talking
 about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY 
 comment.

 And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to
 the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and
 simple.
 You think the church is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.

 The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and
 study the written word is more than obvious.

 jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: Dean Moore

 - Original Message - 
 From:

 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read
 this out loud and you will see what I mean. .

 cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
 earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to
 his
 lower statement and you have a cult.

 Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I
 am
 tired of it.

 cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf?
 Others
 do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

 jd

 -- Original message -- 
 From: Dean Moore

 cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
 earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to
 his
 lower statement and you have a cult.  BR 
 John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
 revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you
 will,
 it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical 
 text

 is
 expanded and/or confirmed

 - Original Message - 
 From: Judy Taylor

 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 .Amen Dean,
 JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what 
 you

 say
 below ie: in the multitude of
 counsellors there is safety However the counsellors referred to in
 Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
 the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the
 same
 Spirit and this is the counsel in which
 we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

 On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore
 writes:
 cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to
 live
 by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is 
determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you 
have it ...backwards?
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

John, which is easier to comprehend?  Sin or Christ?

Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person.  I'm not
sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ.  The subject of sin,
however, is much more basic and easy to understand.  Furthermore, it is 
the
only criteria of God's judgment.  When we all stand before Jesus Christ, 
the
Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we 
have

done.  We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our
understanding of Christ).  Our moral behavior is much more important than
our philosophy of the nature of Christ.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody 
else

is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
defective.   DM

I find this humorously off course.   To put anything ahead of 
Christological

didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error.   If your
Christology is wrong or false,  your view of sin will mirror that
circumstance.
David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed.  Alas, we
cannot escape our own person.   My addiction is not apparent to anyone but
myself and God.  Perhaps this means that I am  closer to full victory than
David !!  What think ye?

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have
been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a
similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too
much.

For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way
beyond
that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to
'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called
the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this?

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody
else
is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
defective.

David Mil ler.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a
little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not
necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree
that
misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when
speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion.
DM
also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD 
has,

of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays
claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an
engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought 
not

be the primary focus.

- Original Me ssage - 
From: Dean Moore

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers
from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt
that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from 
the

one that exists.

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore

cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements
that
have been taken out of context- but yo u are incorrect.By the way who is
the
BSF?

- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk cult, shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF.
Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with
who believes the following:

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
changed afterwards.

2. Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'?

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

John wrote:

... I speak as one who is leadership.

David wrote:

What is your leadership position
in your local church?

John wrote:

Pastor.  I am one no matter where I
attend.   Does it sound arrogant for me
to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger,
California?

No, not necessarily, but the way you have answered this is a little
perplexing.

I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare
Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California.  Do you consider Joe to be your
pastor?  Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your
leadership role in the church?

Or is your fellow pastor someone else?  Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith
Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton?

Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor?

David Miller.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-16 Thread David Miller

Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel?  Are you 
serious?  Lance, John, Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this?

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do with the NT 
gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine)

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus is the 
Messiah.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Perhaps Lance has a good point, David. Consider the biblical record. Does it begin with Christ or sin? And sin, defined and demonstrated , displays what volume of content compared to that of "Christ?" Surely the answer is "much more!"

Anyway, I am not sure how we go about discussing one without the other.

If you think "sin" is an easily understood concept, read "The Many Faces of Evil" by Feinberg or any number of books discussing this subject. Extremely complicated.

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] ONE WAY of thinking about this: Who He is takes priority over and, is determinative of, all other considerations. Is it possible, David, that you have it ...backwards? - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John, which is easier to comprehend? Sin or Christ? Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person. I'm not sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ. The subject of sin, however, is much more basic and easy to understand. Furthermore, it is the only criteria of God's judgment. When we al
l stand before Jesus Christ, the Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we have done. We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our understanding of Christ). Our moral behavior is much more important than our philosophy of the nature of Christ. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. DM
I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of Christological didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that circumstance. David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than David !! What think ye? jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry abo
ut it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Mil ler. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subje
ct: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. - Original Me ssag
e - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but t

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams.

But I do plan on some kind of answer. It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. Should I return the favor? Nay. I already know all I need to know about our good list owner.

jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'?- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John wrote: ... I speak as one who is leadership. David wrote: What is your leadership position in your local church? John wrote: Pastor. I am one no matter where I attend. Does it sound arrogant for me to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger, California? No, not necessarily, but the way you have
answered this is a little perplexing. I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your leadership role in the church? Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? David Miller. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-16 Thread ttxpress






hint1:
'the door to 
understanding'human 'in/fallibility' have no role in NT 
thought, are not categories of NT revelation


--


On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David 
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do 
with the NT gospel? Are  youserious? Lance, John, 
Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this?  David 
Miller.  - Original Message -  From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 
PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding  
myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do with the  
NT gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine)  On Wed, 
15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller"  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  writes: some of my understanding is 
infallible[:] I understand that Jesus  is theMessiah.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


David, David, David - is G talking about Jesus as Messiah or your notion of infallability? 

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel? Are you  serious? Lance, John, Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this?   David Miller.   - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 PM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding   myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do with the NT  gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine)   On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:  some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus is the  Messiah.  --  "Let your sp
eech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-16 Thread ttxpress






hint2:


 - Original Message -  
From: "David Miller"  Sent: February 15, 
2006 14:46 
  Jesus Christ is far beyond the 
understanding of any[one]..
  I'm [unsure] anyone on 
earth..understands Jesus Christ. 


On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:50:25 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  hint1:
  'the door to 
  understanding'human 'in/fallibility' 
  have no role in NT thought, are not 
  categories of NT revelation
  
  --
  
  On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David 
  Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [DavidM 'understanding that] Jesus[is] the Messiah has nothing to do 
  with the NT gospel
  ||

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-16 Thread ttxpress





hint3: 

"..righteousness from God comes 
through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." 

 
 
 
 (Rom3, 
NIV)


On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:58:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  hint2:
  
  
   - Original Message - 
   From: "David Miller"  Sent: 
  February 15, 2006 14:46 
Jesus Christ is far beyond the 
  understanding of any[one]..
I'm [unsure] anyone on 
  earth..understands Jesus Christ. 
  
  
  On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:50:25 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  


hint1:
'the door to 
understanding'human 'in/fallibility' 
have no role in NT thought, are not 
categories of NT revelation

--

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 
"David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [DavidM 'understanding that] Jesus[is] the Messiah has nothing to do 
with the NT gospel
||

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

This point is without debate, IMO. Nowhere in scripture is there the sense of ex-cathedra in regard to the spoken word -- or even the logical need for same.

Consider the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). How is the decision made? It is most likely that every author of N.T. scripture was sitting in the meeting.!! Right? So why the collabrative effort? Because of the correctness of G's observation, obviously!! (please note the use of scripture and the anticipated use of bias in response.)

What of the borther in I Cor 8:1ff? His experience (which is mis-informed) differes from that of Paul's theology, yet, Paul does not insist on his teaching.

In Romans 14, the entire passage concerns itself with two brothers who are in serious error , yet Paul does not insist on agreement -- in fact, it is clear that such a demand would have been rejected.

Peter is in error when it comes to theGentile inclusion with regard to the assembly of the saints.

Jesus, at His ascension (!) is faced withdoctrinal error in regards to thevery nature of the Kingdom of God ("will you now establish the Kingdom to Israel?"). He has had to dealwith this type of ignorance all the while and, here it isafter the resurrection!! It is almost as if He shook his head, looked up to the heavens and said to His Father, "Get Me out of here !!" And so the reason for why the ascension took place WHEN it did.

-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

hint1:
'the door to understanding'human 'in/fallibility' have no role in NT thought, are not categories of NT revelation

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jesus being the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel? Are youserious? Lance, John, Bill... do you guys agree with Gary on this? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding myth (the fallibility in part is that it has nothin' to do w
ith the NT gospel; is that it is basic to false doctrine) On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: some of my understanding is infallible[:] I understand that Jesus is theMessiah.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I cannot counsel in the state of California, without doing two things:

1. Including a statement that separates me from the mental health care industry, and

2.. Securing documenation that justifies my claim of "pastoral counselor." This includes membership in a national Christian counseling association and proof of ordination. I am not ordained in Four Square. Never plan on this being the case.

All of the above is done for legal (liability) reasons.

Why would you go to the trouble of checking me out ? What if David decides that I need to beexposed and consults with these leaders? Could that be on the horizen ? I have been disfellowshipped by one church I did not attend while preaching for another church 50 miles away --- disfellowshipped by that far-away church without a single meeting with me or word of warning. At seminary, my problems had to do with two things -- a paper I was writing on grace and the secretive , behind my back, counsel ofmy conference professor (regarding this paper) and his decision to expose me to the leadership of the school.

Do I have another idiot thinking of doing the same thing? My ordination fellowshipwill not be so effected.It is an association of pastors -- used to such treatment. But church leaders often love this kind of nonsense.

Please note my willingness to be open with your questioning and your refusal to be equally so in regards to a number of your claims over the past two years.

If you have further questions, take it off line. I am sure those on this forum are not interested. You have my phone number, as well. Understand that off line, I will expect tit for tat --- answers from you on an number of claims.

-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-16 Thread Dean Moore




cd: I simple reply will do John-What is the name of the church you pastor-I have friends out there and they know many churches in that area.




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/16/2006 10:51:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams. 

But I do plan on some kind of answer. It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. Should I return the favor? Nay. I already know all I need to know about our good list owner. 

jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'?- Original Message -  From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John wrote:   ... I speak as one who is leadership. David wrote:   What is your leadership position   in your local church? John wrote:   Pastor. I am one no matter where I   attend. Does it sound arrogant for me   to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger,   California? No, not necessarily, but the way you have
 answered this is a little   perplexing. I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare   Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your   pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your   leadership role in the church? Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith   Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? David Miller. --   "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may   know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)   http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
 have a   friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-16 Thread Dean Moore









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/16/2006 12:21:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


hint3: 

"..righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." 
(Rom3, NIV)
cd: What do you mean by the word "righteousness"- Gary?


On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:58:08 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



hint2:


 - Original Message -  From: "David Miller" <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 14:46 
  Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any[one]..
  I'm [unsure] anyone on earth..understands Jesus Christ. 


On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:50:25 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



hint1:
'the door to understanding'human 'in/fallibility' 
have no role in NT thought, are not categories of NT revelation

--

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:50:59 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [DavidM 'understanding that] Jesus[is] the Messiah has nothing to do with the NT gospel
||

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Hey, Slick, your implied threat of followup to my "reply" is of little ocncern to me. You know -- Deegan badgered me, sometime ago about what I did in terms of ministry -- implying that I did nothing. So I finally gave in and listed my activity. Pretty much put his fat proverbial to shame.  Afterwards, Deegan's distaste for me did not end. My reply did not count for anything to him. Your and DM's request will be the same. I said , at the time, I would not again answer to those who were not listening. I have given a reply, by the way.How come you haven't read it? I will expand on it, if you prefer as soon as you learn to spell.(check).

jd 

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: I simple reply will do John-What is the name of the church you pastor-I have friends out there and they know many churches in that area.




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/16/2006 10:51:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I have not yet responded because I do not know how to approach this bit of detective work? That there is much more going on here than meets the eye or might be admitted is more than obvious. This comes from an apostle/prophet ("as in apostles and prophets") who rejects any questioning that seeks some degree of confirmation for his own cliams. 

But I do plan on some kind of answer. It's just surprising to realize that David took time out of his busy day at the Univerisity and software sales to research as much as posible his old buddy, John Smithson. Should I return the favor? Nay. I already know all I need to know about our good list owner. 

jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  IFO am 'dazzled'. Anyone else 'dazzled'?- Original Message -  From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 15:16  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding John wrote:   ... I speak as one who is leadership. David wrote:   What is your leadership position   in your local church? John wrote:   Pastor. I am one no matter where I   attend. Does it sound arrogant for me   to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger,   California? No, not necessarily, but the way you have
 answered this is a little   perplexing. I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare   Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California. Do you consider Joe to be your   pastor? Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your   leadership role in the church? Or is your fellow pastor someone else? Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith   Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton? Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor? David Miller. --   "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may   know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)   http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you
 have a   friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how  you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and  he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an 
illustration, Dean.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People 
are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or 
wrong.

  - Original Message - 
  
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  .Amen Dean,
  JD I figure you were 
  thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below 
  ie: "in the multitude of
  counsellors there is safety" However the 
  "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word 
  or
  the Biblical text as you call it. 
  Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the 
  counsel in which
  we find safety. Groupthink?? 
  Anathema!!
  
  On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  cd: A very good definition of 
  the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No 
  standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present 
  circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David 
  does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of 
  the mass.
  

 

  JD writes:
  
  In the biblical concept 
  of the church 
  I see an avenue for 
  continuing revelation, 
  and if not revelation, 
  certainly interpretation or understanding. 
  If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the 
  biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, 
  then, that the church 
  continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. 
  A community of 
  Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of 
  this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts 
  is borne.
  
  jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think 
David's family attends also.)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our 
  statements that have been taken out of context-but you are incorrect.By 
  the way who is the BSF?
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list 
to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will 
describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 


1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- 
their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of 
God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 
years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David 
- only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His 
ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 

7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that 
discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this 
"illumination," the understanding of acripturecan 
be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. 
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and 
what it means to say.  And those who disagree 
with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something 
we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will 
be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of 
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that 
BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone 
for this response. This is the fruit of your 
ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to 
fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


  .Amen Dean,
  JD I figure you were 
  thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below 
  ie: "in the multitude of
  counsellors there is safety" However the 
  "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word 
  or
  the Biblical text as you call it. 
  Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the 
  counsel in which
  we find safety. Groupthink?? 
  Anathema!!
  
  On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  cd: A very good definition of 
  the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No 
  standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present 
  circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David 
  does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of 
  the mass.
  

 

  JD writes:
  
  In the biblical concept 
  of the church 
  I see an avenue for 
  continuing revelation, 
  and if not revelation, 
  certainly interpretation or understanding. 
  If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the 
  biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, 
  then, that the church 
  continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. 
  A community of 
  Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of 
  this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts 
  is borne.
  
  jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




You seem more reserved than when preaching on the 
street, Dean. Surely you will say what you mean for our benefit. 'too much 
dancing around'?? Are 'we' a cult IYO?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 18:00
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:16:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding

Dean:

'birth of a cult'?
'group thinking-no standards to point out 
error'?
'see why your group don't like preaching such 
as David (Miller) does'?

These are rather serious accusations, Dean. 
These are certainly not borne out when reading the 'group' via 
TT.

I had a rather lengthy conversation just last 
evening with a friend who reads TT regularly. I have for the longest time 
'heard' only one voice on TT, said I to my friend, that has a 'cultic' ring 
to it. That voice belongs to no one in 'the group'. 

Over the decades I've encountered a handful of 
persons who claimed 'special access' to God; 'special giftedness' in 
understanding God; along with 'special insight' into others within the 
'believing' community. I'd totally concur Dean, that such should be viewed 
with caution.

cd: One thing a cult does is vere away from 
the bible but leave enough truth to sound convincing. I have yet to meet 
anyone in a cult that thought they were in a cult. There are too many 
unexplained sound bible verses in you groups belief.Too much dancing 
around.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 07:02
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/13/2006 7:19:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
to understanding


In the biblical concept 
of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not 
revelation, certainly 
interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the 
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded 
and/or confirmed. 
How important, 
it is, then, that the 
church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. 
A community of Being 
reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this 
communal reality that our understanding of God and His thoughts is 
borne.
cd: A very good definition of the 
birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No 
standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present 
circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David 
does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power 
of the mass.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




I believe that cd  DM may be confusing 
intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled 
threats  warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with 
him.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  Secondly, I never said that the group defines 
  God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 
  
  cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they 
  decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive 
  you.
  
  I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? 
  I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you 
  said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining 
  God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the 
  discussion.  Plain and simple. You think the "church" 
  is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. 
  
  The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and 
  "study" the written word is more than obvious. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 







  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you 
  comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I 
  mean. .
  
  
  
  cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to 
  John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He 
  is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
  
  Secondly, I never said that the group defines 
  God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 
  
  cd: Do you remember my replying "What if 
  they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive 
  you.
  
  jd
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to 
John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He 
is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not 
revelation, certainly 
interpretation or understanding. 
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical 
text is expanded and/or confirmed




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
      Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
  to understanding
  
  .Amen Dean,
  JD I figure you were 
  thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
  below ie: "in the multitude of
  counsellors there is safety" However 
  the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word 
  or
  the Biblical text as you call it. 
  Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the 
  counsel in which
  we find safety. Groupthink?? 
  Anathema!!
  
  On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  cd: A very good 
  definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but 
  group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees 
  with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like 
  preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his 
  voice is lost in the power of the mass.
  

 

  JD writes:
  
  In the biblical 
  concept of the church 
  I see an avenue for 
  continuing 
  revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation 
  or understanding. 
  If you will, it is in 
  the counsel of many that our understanding of 
  the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, 
  then, that the church 
  continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or 
  physical. A 
  community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and 
  it is out

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists.

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context-but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 

7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripturecan be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.  And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




cd: How can one argue with your type of reasoning John?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:23:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. 

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. 

jd










-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. .



cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd


-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




cd: Be so kind as to tell me what BSF stand for?





- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:15:47 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:16:41 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)
cd: Thank you Lance.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context-but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 

7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripturecan be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.  And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are 
permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' 
is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree 
that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when 
speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also 
lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, 
been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 
'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures.Within such an engagement as 
this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary 
focus.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding

Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds 
suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no 
doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from 
the one that exists.

-- 
  Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our 
  statements that have been taken out of context-but you are 
  incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
    to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this 
list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It 
will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the 
following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- 
their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of 
God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 
years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David 
- only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His 
ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 


7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that 
discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this 
"illumination," the understanding of acripturecan 
be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being 
wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it 
comes to the Bible and what it means to say. 
 And those who disagree with this are false 
teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be 
something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this 
will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of 
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet 
that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the 
tone for this response. This is the fruit of your 
ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going 
to fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


  .Amen Dean,
  JD I figure you were 
  thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
  below ie: "in the multitude of
  counsellors there is safety" However 
  the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word 
  or
  the Biblical text as you call it. 
  Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the 
  counsel in which
  we find safety. Groupthink?? 
  Anathema!!
  
  On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  cd: A very good 
  definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but 
  group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees 
  with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




The following is not a compliment, nor is it 
necessarily a criticism: As to "how can one argue with your type of 
reasoning.(fill in the blank)? DM, in responding to a series of 
questions I put to him, so framed his answers as to sever the possiblilty of 
ongoing conversation. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 15, 2006 07:13
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  cd: How can one argue with your type of reasoning 
  John?
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:23:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding



Secondly, I never said that the group defines 
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if 
they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive 
you.

I do not care what you said. Do you understand that 
comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am 
talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment 
spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a 
lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain and 
simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and 
bosses, apparently. 

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and 
"study" the written word is more than obvious. 

jd










-- 
  Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
to understanding

Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you 
comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I 
mean. .



cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to 
John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He 
is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines 
God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What 
if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive 
you.

jd


-- 
  Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to 
  John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He 
  is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
  
  John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if 
  not revelation, 
  certainly interpretation or understanding. 
  If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the 
  biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 

    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 
door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were 
thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However 
the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word 
or
the Biblical text as you call it. 
Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the 
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? 
Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
cd: A very good 
definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but 
group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees 
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like 
preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his 
voice is lost in the power of the mass.

  
   
  
JD writes:

In the biblical 
con

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and 
John talked about it.  I don't even know if it exists around here in my 
community.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)
- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that 
have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the 
BSF?

- Original Message - 
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF. 
Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing with 
who believes the following:

1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being 
changed afterwards.

2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some 
spiritual sense.

5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

7.  God is male and has a penis.

8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books 
are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of 
acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. 
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and 
what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers 
and need to be opposed.

9.  The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.

I would add to this list  --  but I am sure this will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of  cult!!   but nice try.  And 
what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way  -  you are the one who has set the tone for this response. 
This is the fruit of your ministry.   Accusing me of preaching the occult is 
not going to fly.

jd

l message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in 
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing by the same 
Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety.  Groupthink??  Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live 
by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees 
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching 
such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in 
the power of the mass.

JD writes:
In the biblical concept of the church
I see an avenue for  continuing revelation, and if not revelation, 
certainly interpretation or understanding.   If you will, it is in the 
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded 
and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then,  that the church continue 
to meet in forums such as this  --  whether virtual or physical.   A 
community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out 
of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is 
borne.

jd 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:19:05 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

You seem more reserved than when preaching on the street, Dean. Surely you will say what you mean for our benefit. 'too much dancing around'?? Are 'we' a cult IYO?
cd: Not really-Sometimes it is loud to large group other times it is a quite one on one. One must react to the group -with control of course.By "dancing around" I mean jumping from one part of the bible to another part but leaving out the whole (ie completeness). I don't think you are a cult yet IMO,but do see the groundwork in place for being a cult.

1. Does your group thinking override the Bible. Yes as I have seen you guys agree against truthagainst clearly defined passaged (supported by many places in the bible and agree with the whole).that say differently. Mormons do the same thing.

2. Does your group have a charismatic leader? Yes, Baxter-as was Joseph Smith.

3. Does you group have a clearly biblical moral agenda. No-nor do Mormons. The commandments are secondary and don't exist for Christians. J. Smith -Adultery is not a sin.

4. Does your leader make outrageous statements? Yes-God is neither male of female.-J. Smith-We will be Gods in heaven.

5. Does you group have continual revelations thatdoes not have to have biblical support. Yes," as the group will receive on going revelations and it decides truth". Even what God is- Male /felmale/calf. J. Smith Jesusis brother to Lucifer-Sin in the garden is a good thing.

6. Does you group focus on receiving money for religious activities. Baxter-3 nights $60.00,price of tapes..etc.Smith-donations are required. Jesus- You were freely given so freely give.

If I am correct your group will make false prophecy statements next and give a wild explanation for nonfulliment.Respectfully-You are walking on dangerous ground Lance.


- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:00
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:16:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean:

'birth of a cult'?
'group thinking-no standards to point out error'?
'see why your group don't like preaching such as David (Miller) does'?

These are rather serious accusations, Dean. These are certainly not borne out when reading the 'group' via TT.

I had a rather lengthy conversation just last evening with a friend who reads TT regularly. I have for the longest time 'heard' only one voice on TT, said I to my friend, that has a 'cultic' ring to it. That voice belongs to no one in 'the group'. 

Over the decades I've encountered a handful of persons who claimed 'special access' to God; 'special giftedness' in understanding God; along with 'special insight' into others within the 'believing' community. I'd totally concur Dean, that such should be viewed with caution.

cd: One thing a cult does is vere away from the bible but leave enough truth to sound convincing. I have yet to meet anyone in a cult that thought they were in a cult. There are too many unexplained sound bible verses in you groups belief.Too much dancing around.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:02
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/13/2006 7:19:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His thoughts is borne.
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Veiled threats and warnings?  What are you talking about?

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see 
this more from DM with those less than veiled threats  warnings directed at 
those who dare to disagree with him.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Secondly,   I never said that the group defines God.  Such is a lie and I am 
tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? Others 
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said.  Do you understand that comment?  I am talking 
about what I said, Dean.   I am talking about what you said of MY comment. 
And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God.   Any comment to 
the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.Plain and simple. 
You think the church is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and 
study the written word is more than obvious.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!!   Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments.   Read 
this out loud and you will see what I mean.  .

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his 
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his 
lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly,   I never said that the group defines God.  Such is a lie and I am 
tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? Others 
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his 
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his 
lower statement and you have a cult.

 John wrote:I see an avenue for  continuing revelation, and if not 
revelation,  certainly interpretation or understanding.   If you will, 
it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is 
expanded and/or confirmed

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in 
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing by the same 
Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety.  Groupthink??  Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live 
by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees 
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching 
such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in 
the power of the mass.

JD writes:
In the biblical concept of the church
I see an avenue for  continuing revelation, and if not revelation, 
certainly interpretation or understanding.   If you will, it is in the 
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded 
and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then,  that the church continue 
to meet in forums such as this  --  whether virtual or physical.   A 
community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out 
of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is 
borne.

jd 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Am I the only one to have noticed this, John?

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Veiled threats and warnings?  What are you talking about?

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see
this more from DM with those less than veiled threats  warnings directed 
at

those who dare to disagree with him.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Secondly,   I never said that the group defines God.  Such is a lie and I 
am

tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? Others
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said.  Do you understand that comment?  I am 
talking

about what I said, Dean.   I am talking about what you said of MY comment.
And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God.   Any comment to
the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.Plain and 
simple.

You think the church is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and
study the written word is more than obvious.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!!   Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments.   Read
this out loud and you will see what I mean.  .

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to 
his

lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly,   I never said that the group defines God.  Such is a lie and I 
am

tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? Others
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to 
his

lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for  continuing revelation, and if not
revelation,  certainly interpretation or understanding.   If you 
will,
it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text 
is

expanded and/or confirmed

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you 
say

below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing by the same
Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety.  Groupthink??  Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to 
live

by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like 
preaching
such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost 
in

the power of the mass.

JD writes:
In the biblical concept of the church
I see an avenue for  continuing revelation, and if not revelation,
certainly interpretation or understanding.   If you will, it is in the
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded
and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then,  that the church 
continue

to meet in forums such as this  --  whether virtual or physical.   A
community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is 
out
of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts 
is

borne.

jd

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

As I've said previously DM, it always interests me to see what it is that 
'wakes you up'..why..my goodness..it is when it is about YOU.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:44
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and
John talked about it.  I don't even know if it exists around here in my
community.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends 
also.)
- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements 
that
have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is 
the

BSF?

- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF.
Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing with
who believes the following:

1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
changed afterwards.

2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some
spiritual sense.

5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

7.  God is male and has a penis.

8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books
are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of
acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong.
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible 
and
what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false 
teachers

and need to be opposed.

9.  The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.

I would add to this list  --  but I am sure this will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of  cult!!   but nice try. 
And

what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way  -  you are the one who has set the tone for this response.
This is the fruit of your ministry.   Accusing me of preaching the occult 
is

not going to fly.

jd

l message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you 
say

below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing by the same
Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety.  Groupthink??  Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to 
live

by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like 
preaching
such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost 
in

the power of the mass.

JD writes:
In the biblical concept of the church
I see an avenue for  continuing revelation, and if not revelation,
certainly interpretation or understanding.   If you will, it is in the
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded
and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then,  that the church 
continue

to meet in forums such as this  --  whether virtual or physical.   A
community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is 
out
of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts 
is

borne.

jd

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats  warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him.

cd: Is it disagreeing withDavid or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc?

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. 

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. 

jd










-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. .



cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd


-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have 
been accused of such from my writing.  I think the apostle Paul had a 
similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much.

For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond 
that of most, IF by most you mean other believers.  I do lay claim to 
'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world.   It is called 
the Holy Spirit.  Do you have a problem with this?

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. 
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else 
is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems 
defective.

David Miller.


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a 
little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not 
necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that 
misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when 
speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM 
also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, 
of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays 
claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an 
engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not 
be the primary focus.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding





- Original Message - 
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Aahhh  ---  from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers 
from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt 
that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the 
one that exists.

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that 
have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the 
BSF?



- Original Message - 
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF. 
Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing with 
who believes the following:

1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being 
changed afterwards.

2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some 
spiritual sense.

5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

7.  God is male and has a penis.

8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books 
are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of 
acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. 
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and 
what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers 
and need to be opposed.

9.  The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list  --  but I am sure this will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of  cult!!   but nice try.  And 
what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way  -  you are the one who has set the tone for this response. 
This is the fruit of your ministry.   Accusing me of preaching the occult is 
not going to fly.

jd












l message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in 
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing by the same 
Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety.  Groupthink??  Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live 
by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees 
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching 
such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in 
the power of the mass.

JD writes:
In the biblical concept of the church
I see

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-15 Thread Judy Taylor




Writen by one who quiteobviously has never ever 
participated in BSF which has nothing to do
with psychology. Nor do they do anyone's thinking for 
them. In fact those who have not done their
own homework (in the scriptures) in a given week must 
remain silent. Note: For Dean - BSF is
Bible Study Fellowship - a weekly Bible Study which is 
international in scope - non-denominational
and which was begun by a MsWeatherall Johnson a 
British Missionary to China.

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 06:15:39 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be 
  an illustration, Dean.
  
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People 
are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or 
wrong.






  From: Lance Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
  
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
    to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were 
thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below 
ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the 
"counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word 
or
the Biblical text as you call it. 
Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the 
counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? 
Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
cd: A very good definition 
of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group 
thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the 
present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such 
as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in 
the power of the mass.

  
   
  
JD writes:

In the biblical 
concept of the church 
I see an avenue for 
continuing revelation, 
and if not revelation, 
certainly interpretation or understanding. 
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the 
biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, 
then, that the church 
continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. 
A community of 
Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of 
this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t 
houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




Dean:Why don't you tell me (us) exactly what Rev 
3:1-6 DOES MEAN.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 15, 2006 07:49
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing 
intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than 
veiled threats  warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with 
him.

cd: Is it disagreeing withDavid or 
disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of 
sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your 
group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with 
your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  Secondly, I never said that the group defines 
  God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 
  
  cd: Do you remember my replying "What if 
  they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive 
  you.
  
  I do not care what you said. Do you understand that 
  comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am 
  talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment 
  spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is 
  a lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain and 
  simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and 
  bosses, apparently. 
  
  The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read 
  and "study" the written word is more than obvious. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 







  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
  to understanding
  
  Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read 
  you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I 
  mean. .
  
  
  
  cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to 
  John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He 
  is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.
  
  Secondly, I never said that the group defines 
  God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 
  
  cd: Do you remember my replying "What 
  if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I 
  forgive you.
  
  jd
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply 
to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group 
decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a 
cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if 
not revelation, 
certainly interpretation or understanding. 
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the 
biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
  
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 
  door to understanding
  
  .Amen Dean,
  JD I figure you were 
  thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
  below ie: "in the multitude of
  counsellors there is safety" 
  However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of 
  God's Word or
  the Biblical text as you call it. 
  Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is 
  the counsel in wh

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

There have been an = number of such issued by you
to the 'soon-to-be cult' (via Dean), Judy.

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: February 15, 2006 08:31
Subject: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding

Lance obviously has a very active and prolific
imagination David. I have disagreed
with youabout a point or two and have yet to
receive even a hint of "veiled threats
or warnings" Apparently we live in two
different dimensions (Lance and I, that is)
judytFrom: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Veiled threats
and warnings? What are you talking about?

David Miller.

From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding

I believe that cd DM may be confusing intimidation with authority.
I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats warnings
directed at those who dare to disagree with him.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
February 14, 2006 18:23Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such
is a lie and I am tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment?
I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what
you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group
defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this
stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the
"church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and
"study" the written word is more than obvious.

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - From:To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006
5:58:59 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you
comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I
mean. .

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to
his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such
is a lie and I am tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to
his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
revelation, certainly interpretation or
understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many
that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or
confirmed

- Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
2/14/2006 7:28:31 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding

.Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you
wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is
safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those
of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the
same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find
safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one
truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the
group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't
like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his
voice is lost in the power of the mass.

JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue
for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly
interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded
and/or confirmed. How important, it is,
then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this
-- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being
reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this commun

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


David:

I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two. 
Kindly say the same thing in other words.


Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time:

1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet  do you occupy it? b. is 
there an office of king within the believing community  do you occupy it?


thanks for this,

Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have
been accused of such from my writing.  I think the apostle Paul had a
similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too 
much.


For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way 
beyond

that of most, IF by most you mean other believers.  I do lay claim to
'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world.   It is 
called

the Holy Spirit.  Do you have a problem with this?

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody 
else

is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
defective.

David Miller.


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a
little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not
necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree 
that

misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when
speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. 
DM

also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has,
of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays
claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an
engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not
be the primary focus.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding





- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Aahhh  ---  from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers
from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt
that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the
one that exists.

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements 
that
have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is 
the

BSF?



- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF.
Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing with
who believes the following:

1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
changed afterwards.

2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some
spiritual sense.

5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

7.  God is male and has a penis.

8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books
are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of
acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong.
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible 
and
what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false 
teachers

and need to be opposed.

9.  The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list  --  but I am sure this will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of  cult!!   but nice try. 
And

what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way  -  you are the one who has set the tone for this response.
This is the fruit of your ministry.   Accusing me of preaching the occult 
is

not going to fly.

jd












l message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]


.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you 
say

below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




cd: Thanks Judy -Do you know if they have one in this area- Western N.C.?




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 7:56:05 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Writen by one who quiteobviously has never ever participated in BSF which has nothing to do
with psychology. Nor do they do anyone's thinking for them. In fact those who have not done their
own homework (in the scriptures) in a given week must remain silent. Note: For Dean - BSF is
Bible Study Fellowship - a weekly Bible Study which is international in scope - non-denominational
and which was begun by a MsWeatherall Johnson a British Missionary to China.

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 06:15:39 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean.

From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong.






From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm


From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Addendum:

I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet  prophetically 
gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically 
gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded to 
prophesy over the store and, several persons in it.
- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 08:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



David:

I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy 
two. Kindly say the same thing in other words.


Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time:

1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet  do you occupy it? b. is 
there an office of king within the believing community  do you occupy it?


thanks for this,

Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have
been accused of such from my writing.  I think the apostle Paul had a
similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too 
much.


For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way 
beyond

that of most, IF by most you mean other believers.  I do lay claim to
'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world.   It is 
called

the Holy Spirit.  Do you have a problem with this?

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody 
else

is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
defective.

David Miller.


- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a
little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not
necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree 
that

misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when
speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. 
DM
also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD 
has,

of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays
claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an
engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought 
not

be the primary focus.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding





- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Aahhh  ---  from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers
from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt
that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from 
the

one that exists.

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements 
that
have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is 
the

BSF?



- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF.
Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing 
with

who believes the following:

1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
changed afterwards.

2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some
spiritual sense.

5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

7.  God is male and has a penis.

8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books
are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of
acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong.
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible 
and
what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false 
teachers

and need to be opposed.

9.  The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list  --  but I am sure this will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of  cult!!   but nice try. 
And

what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way  -  you are the one who has set the tone for this response

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 8:06:30 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean:Why don't you tell me (us) exactly what Rev 3:1-6 DOES MEAN.
cd:It is telling the saved believers to rememberreceiving Christ and stop sinning or Christ will remove their name from the book of life(send to hell). Your church has to ignore this verse as they do Heb. 6:1-8..etc..

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats  warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him.

cd: Is it disagreeing withDavid or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc?

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. 

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. 

jd










-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. .



cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd


-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community o

RE: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 8:00:08 AM 
Subject: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict about
attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to go
to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to attend. Same
with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the same
week - it works. To complete the whole series takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year.

cd: What is their base belief-Cal. ,Armin., other?

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community.

David Miller.

- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?


- Original Message - From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following:

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards.

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense.

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry.

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.

7. God is male and has a penis.

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed.

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly.

jd











l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne.

jd 

--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 [Original Message]
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 Addendum:

 I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet  prophetically 
 gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically 
 gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded
to 
 prophesy over the store and, several persons in it.

cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be
specific please? Thanks Lance.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Lance, based upon your previous comment concerning how I wake up to posts 
about me, I think perhaps it would be prudent for me to stop answering posts 
about me.  So at least for now, I will be ignoring questions and comments 
about me.  I have other more important matters that require my attention 
around here.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


David:

I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two.
Kindly say the same thing in other words.

Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time:

1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet  do you occupy it? b. is
there an office of king within the believing community  do you occupy it?

thanks for this,

Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


 Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have
 been accused of such from my writing.  I think the apostle Paul had a
 similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too
 much.

 For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way
 beyond
 that of most, IF by most you mean other believers.  I do lay claim to
 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world.   It is
 called
 the Holy Spirit.  Do you have a problem with this?

 As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
 Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody
 else
 is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
 defective.

 David Miller.


 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a
 little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not
 necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree
 that
 misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when
 speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion.
 DM
 also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has,
 of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays
 claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an
 engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not
 be the primary focus.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Dean Moore
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding





 - Original Message - 
 From:
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


 Aahhh  ---  from you two, mostly from Judy.
 cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers
 from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt
 that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the
 one that exists.

 -- Original message -- 
 From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements
 that
 have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is
 the
 BSF?



 - Original Message - 
 From:
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


 Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF.
 Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing with
 who believes the following:

 1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
 changed afterwards.

 2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

 3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

 4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some
 spiritual sense.

 5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

 6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

 7.  God is male and has a penis.

 8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books
 are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of
 acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong.
 Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible
 and
 what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false
 teachers
 and need to be opposed.

 9.  The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


 I would add to this list  --  but I am sure this will be sufficent .
 Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of  cult!!   but nice try.
 And
 what do you

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




I believe that DM just said (meant) in a post 
yesterday something rather different re:believers  sin.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 15, 2006 08:58
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 8:06:30 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding

Dean:Why don't you tell me (us) exactly what 
Rev 3:1-6 DOES MEAN.
cd:It is telling the saved believers to 
rememberreceiving Christ and stop sinning or Christ will remove their 
name from the book of life(send to hell). Your church has to ignore this 
verse as they do Heb. 6:1-8..etc..

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 15, 2006 07:49
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lance 
Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
to understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing 
intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less 
than veiled threats  warnings directed at those who dare to 
disagree with him.

cd: Is it disagreeing withDavid or 
disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of 
sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. 
Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it 
collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, 
Baxter...etc?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 
  18:23
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
  to understanding
  
  
  
  Secondly, I never said that the group defines 
  God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 
  
  cd: Do you remember my replying "What 
  if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I 
  forgive you.
  
  I do not care what you said. Do you understand that 
  comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am 
  talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY 
  comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the 
  contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain 
  and simple. You think the "church" is all about common 
  folk and bosses, apparently. 
  
  The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you 
  read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. 
  
  jd
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 







  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
          
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 
  door to understanding
  
  Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof 
  read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see 
  what I mean. .
  
  
  
  cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below 
  reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the 
  group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a 
  cult.
  
  Secondly, I never said that the group 
  defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 
  
  
  cd: Do you remember my replying 
  "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying 
  John-but I forgive you.
  
  jd
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below 
reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

That which he (they actually- Martin Scott of England  Marcus Splitt of 
Germany) prophetically uttered was recorded. It's fairly lengthy.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 09:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

[Original Message]
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Addendum:

I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet  prophetically
gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically
gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded

to

prophesy over the store and, several persons in it.

cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be
specific please? Thanks Lance.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

What an 'interesting' occasion for opting out, David. I'd be pleased to hear 
from you privately for the purpose of clarification.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 09:10
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Lance, based upon your previous comment concerning how I wake up to posts
about me, I think perhaps it would be prudent for me to stop answering 
posts

about me.  So at least for now, I will be ignoring questions and comments
about me.  I have other more important matters that require my attention
around here.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

David:

I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy 
two.

Kindly say the same thing in other words.

Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time:

1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet  do you occupy it? b. is
there an office of king within the believing community  do you occupy it?

thanks for this,

Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have
been accused of such from my writing.  I think the apostle Paul had a
similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too
much.

For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way
beyond
that of most, IF by most you mean other believers.  I do lay claim to
'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world.   It is
called
the Holy Spirit.  Do you have a problem with this?

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody
else
is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
defective.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a
little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not
necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree
that
misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when
speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion.
DM
also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD 
has,

of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays
claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an
engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought 
not

be the primary focus.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Aahhh  ---  from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers
from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt
that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from 
the

one that exists.

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements
that
have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is
the
BSF?

- Original Message - 
From:

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF.
Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing 
with

who believes the following:

1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
changed afterwards.

2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some
spiritual sense.

5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

7.  God is male and has a penis.

8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books
are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of
acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong.
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible
and
what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false
teachers

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


And so it is that occultism (the esoteric) leads to cultish considerations.

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



It is more like that an individual decides against the 'group' thus generating a cult, Dean. This is what concerns me re:one who lays claim to 'special revelation' as the 'closer' in an argument. One such, at least, is a TT contributer.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:47
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Yes, and perhaps Dean's criticism is the very strength of the Church. Association with the "group" does tend to keep us in line. Because that has not worked out so well with several on this forum is not an argument against the anointed psychology of "church" or "groupspeak" if you will.

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

John wrote:
 You know how I feel about the scriptures.

No, I really do not.  Do you believe that the Scriptures are the infallible 
Word of God?  Are the Scriptures a standard to which all believers must 
align themselves?

John wrote:
 But scripture is one thing and my understanding
 of scripture is another.  One isinfallable and the
 other is not    and that is the case for  us
 all.

If this were true, then the Scriptures are no standard at all.  Are you 
saying that our understanding of Scripture is ALWAYS prone to error and 
therefore none of us can be sure that we understand the Scriptures, ever?

If this is your position, then the Scriptures are not profitable for reproof 
and correction because someone could always just say that the person giving 
the correction misunderstands the Scripture.  For example, homosexuals have 
a legitimate counter when they claim that the homosexuality forbidden in the 
Bible has to do with pagan worship and not just same gender lustful behavior 
per se.  Who is to say which interpretation or understanding is right if 
nobody has an infallible understanding?  In like manner, someone could argue 
that Jesus is not really the Messiah talked about in Isaiah 53.  Virtually 
all the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures could be explained away.  I 
truly would like to hear you expound upon your concept here, because either 
I am misunderstanding you or this is serious false doctrine.

John wrote:
 The authority of leadership within the
 church is their life, their example.

That's part of it, a primary part of it, but not all of it.  You keep 
quoting 1 Cor. 5.  This chapter shows a little more than just example when 
Paul instructs the Corinthians to cast out the sinner from their church.

Recently you experienced a 1 Cor. 5 type of discipline from the moderator of 
this list.  I realize that this list is not a church, but do you agree that 
this kind of exercise of authority is proper in God's eyes?

John wrote:
 The hierarchy of the church is this:
 Ye who are spiritual help those who
 are weak.  And I speak as one who
 is leadership.

What is your leadership position in your local church?

David Miller 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Every single item on the list is an argued belieffrom either you or Judy Taylor. 
You don't like it because when it is all put together, it is rather embarrassing.
The "cult" thingy is written all ofver this type of [listed] thinking. 

You can counter with a list of weird beliefs of any of us on the left. Let's see -- maybe I can help. 

Jd and friends actually believe this drivel: 

1. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth.

2. Christ is the eternal Son of God. 

3. Christ Incarnate was God on earth.

4. God the Father did not have sexual relations with Mary.

5. Jesus came in the same flesh as all of mankind and was like us IN EVERY
RESPECT. 

6. The Old Covenant has been made obsolete. 

7. God is not a sexual being. "Father" is a function of God, an aspect of His
 self-revealing economy. 

8. We learn of the mind of God through the spirit-led process of maturity.

Pretty weird, huh ?!!! 




-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context-but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 

7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripturecan be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.  And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 9:31:49 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Yes, and perhaps Dean's criticism is the very strength of the Church. Association with the "group" does tend to keep us in line. Because that has not worked out so well with several on this forum is not an argument against the anointed psychology of "church" or "groupspeak" if you will.

jd
cd:criticism will work only if the overall mass of the group is biblical in their understanding-of course meaning completeness.We (S.P.) do this to each other all the time-and this works well as a nuance for the conformity of the over mass of the group.

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


What specifics on the list have I misunderstood, Dean? Please enlighten us.

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy.
cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists.

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context-but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 

7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripturecan be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.  And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-15 Thread Judy Taylor






On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:49:25 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Every single item on the list is an argued belieffrom either you or 
  Judy Taylor. 
  You don't like it because when it is all put together, it is rather 
  embarrassing.
  The "cult" thingy is written all ofver this type of [listed] 
  thinking. 
  
  You can counter with a list of weird beliefs of any of us on the 
  left. Let's see -- maybe I can help. 
  
  Jd and friends actually believe this drivel: 
  
  1. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth.
  
  AE were created in God's image which is not 
  dust; the Creator is transcendent.
  
  2. Christ is the eternal Son of God. 
  
  What scripture is the above based on? Only begotten 
  Son - yes. Eternal Son??
  
  3. Christ Incarnate was God on earth.
  
  Then why did he say "Why call me good?" There is only 
  one that is good and that is God?"
  Was he double minded or possibly insane?
  
  4. God the Father did not have sexual relations with Mary.
  
  No kidding??
  
  5. Jesus came in the same flesh as all of mankind and was like us 
  IN EVERY
  RESPECT. 
  
  In which case he must have been born in sin and 
  iniquity and he would have to have had a redeemer himself.
  
  6. The Old Covenant has been made obsolete. 
  
  God's moral law is not obsolete; you will be judged 
  by it in the Last Day
  
  7. God is not a sexual being. "Father" is a function of God, an aspect of 
  His
   self-revealing 
  economy. 
  
  Only to one overtaken by lust. A father is much more 
  than biology - good ones are rare.
  
  8. We learn of the mind of God through the spirit-led process 
  of maturity.
  
  The Spirit of God reveals the mind of God - Jesus 
  amazed the religious leaders at age 12.
  and he according to your teaching was "just like you 
  in every way"
  
  Pretty weird, huh ?!!! 
  
  You can say that again.
  
  
  
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think 
David's family attends also.)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
      
  Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our 
  statements that have been taken out of context-but you are 
  incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
    Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door 
to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this 
list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It 
will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the 
following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- 
their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of 
God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 
years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David 
- only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His 
ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 


7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that 
discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this 
"illumination," the understanding of acripturecan 
be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being 
wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it 
comes to the Bible and what it means to say. 
 And those who disagree with this are false 
teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be 
something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this 
will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of 
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet 
that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the 
tone for this response. This is the fruit of your 
ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going 
to fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


  .Amen Dean,
  JD I figure you were

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Simple. Don't change my wording. Own up to what you pass off as doctrine.
That would be a good start.

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: How can one argue with your type of reasoning John?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 6:23:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. 

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. 

jd










-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. .



cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd


-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Well, interesting qustion. Two examples. Dean recently told G not to be belligerent. I thought to myself - is this an order from King Moderator or just a passing statement in the course of debate. We no longer know, do we?

Secondly, when DM questioned me about scripture and the authority of church leadership -- there was the distinct notion, on my part, that something else was going on in the mind of David. Paranoid? Probably. Without good reason? I think not.

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Am I the only one to have noticed this, John?- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about? David Miller. - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding I believe that cd DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those le
ss than veiled threats warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a
lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>- Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read
this out loud and you will see what I mean. . cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. <
BR>John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding .Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or the Biblical text as you call it. They all
say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!! On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass. JD writes: In the biblical concept of the church I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that itis no longer funny. Just becasue you quote scripture that is without explanation and completely off subject. The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is more weird thaAnd some continue to refer to Davidn the argument that God has a penis.And some continue to referenceKing David's groin, even in private conversation. I pary for this person and hiscombative [successfully so] son!! :-)

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats  warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him.

cd: Is it disagreeing withDavid or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc?

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding



Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.  Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. 

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. 

jd










-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. .



cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd


-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. DM

I find this humorously off course. To put anything ahead of Christological didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error. If your Christology is wrong or false, your view of sin will mirror that circumstance.
David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed. Alas, we cannot escape our own person. My addiction is not apparent to anyone but myself and God. Perhaps this means that I am closer to full victory than David !! What think ye?

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Mil
ler.- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. - Original Me
ssage - From: Dean Moore To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understandingAahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but yo
u are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understandingLet's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 7. God is male and has a penis.
8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. jd
l

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Judy speaks of BSF and tells us "it works" LOL

I will be amending my list through the weekend. Official BSF appraisal of said beliefs will be shared with this forum. Should be interesting. Again -- Judy's name will not be used. This is not about her, it is about her doctrine. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict about
attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to go
to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to attend. Same
with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the same
week - it works. To complete the whole series takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year.

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community.

David Miller.

- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?


- Original Message - From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following:

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards.

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense.

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry.

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.

7. God is male and has a penis.

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed.

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly.

jd











l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t houghts is borne.

jd 

--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-15 Thread Judy Taylor




You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is - 
quite obviously - so I wouldn't
be crowing about anything to do with me or BSF if I 
were you JD lest you be found
to be a liar. Just keep laughing until the men in 
the white coats arrive

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:13:35 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Judy speaks of BSF and tells us "it works" 
LOL
  
  I will be amending my list through the weekend. Official BSF 
  appraisal of said 
  beliefs will be shared with this forum. Should be 
  interesting. Again -- Judy's 
  name will not be used. This is not about her, it is about her 
  doctrine. 
  jd
  
  From: 
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting 
list so are pretty strict about
attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many 
meetings. When I had to go
to Australia I could look in their book and find 
meetings over there to attend. Same
with every State in the Union and since everyone 
has the same lesson on the same
week - it works. To complete the whole series 
takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year.

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I have never 
attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John 
talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my 
community.

David Miller.

- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding


Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends 
also.)- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements 
that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way 
who is the BSF?


- Original Message - From:To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 
1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the 
local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a 
person I am dealing with who believes the following:

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh 
being changed afterwards.

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only 
in some spiritual sense.

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry.

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.

7. God is male and has a penis.

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion 
and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," 
the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without 
fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when 
it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And 
those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be 
opposed.

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must 
obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be 
sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of 
"cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet 
that BSF will not agree?

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this 
response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of 
preaching the occult is not going to fly.

jd











l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when 
you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors 
there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs 
ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They 
all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in 
whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No 
one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error 
if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your 
group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by 
the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an 
avenue for continuing revelation, and if not reve

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is - quite obviously jd
The "it" I am speaking of is not your "it," it (read "it") is mine. And I know exactly what that "it" is. Any questions?

I'm going to go have a beer.

jd 

-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

You have no idea what the "it" I am speaking of is - quite obviously - so I wouldn't
be crowing about anything to do with me or BSF if I were you JD lest you be found
to be a liar. Just keep laughing until the men in the white coats arrive

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:13:35 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Judy speaks of BSF and tells us "it works" LOL

I will be amending my list through the weekend. Official BSF appraisal of said 
beliefs will be shared with this forum. Should be interesting. Again -- Judy's 
name will not be used. This is not about her, it is about her doctrine. 
jd

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict about
attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to go
to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to attend. Same
with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the same
week - it works. To complete the whole series takes 7 years. I am in my 4th year.

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and John talked about it. I don't even know if it exists around here in my community.

David Miller.

- Original Message - From: Lance MuirTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)- Original Message - From: Dean MooreTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 14, 2006 17:53Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?


- Original Message - From:To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following:

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards.

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense.

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry.

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.

7. God is male and has a penis.

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary. Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripture can be "received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed.

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent .Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly.

jd











l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude ofcounsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word orthe Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in whichwe find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

JD writes:In the biblical concept of the churchI see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/o

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 9:49:25 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Every single item on the list is an argued belieffrom either you or Judy Taylor. 
You don't like it because when it is all put together, it is rather embarrassing.
The "cult" thingy is written all ofver this type of [listed] thinking. 

You can counter with a list of weird beliefs of any of us on the left. Let's see -- maybe I can help. 

Jd and friends actually believe this drivel: 
cd: In blue below.

1. Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the earth.
 Wrong-Eve wasn't from the dust -she was a transformed rib.

2. Christ is the eternal Son of God.
Then who is the Lord Almighty in Rev1:8? I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 

3. Christ Incarnate was God on earth.
O.K.

4. God the Father did not have sexual relations with Mary.
O.K.

5. Jesus came in the same flesh as all of mankind and was like us IN EVERY
RESPECT. 
cd: Jesus wasn't a common man as He did not sin. We were brought up to his spiritual stat but remain only men, but not common sinning men.

6. The Old Covenant has been made obsolete.

Then why did Jesus quote the Torah many times? And why are they our examples in2 Peter 2 and:
Jud 1:7 Evenas Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 


7. God is not a sexual being. "Father" is a function of God, an aspect of His
 self-revealing economy.

cd:Wrong, One can be masculine and not be sexual. 

8. We learn of the mind of God through the spirit-led process of maturity.

cd: Only if you adhere to the word of God -you do not.

Pretty weird, huh ?!!! 
cd: Tell me about it. You understanding is not complete John.




-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context-but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 

7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripturecan be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.  And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. 

jd












l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Do you have it posted on a website somewhere?  How can we hear it?

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

That which he (they actually- Martin Scott of England  Marcus Splitt of
Germany) prophetically uttered was recorded. It's fairly lengthy.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 15, 2006 09:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 [Original Message]
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 2/15/2006 8:55:21 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 Addendum:

 I'd meant to ask for you to distinguish between prophet  prophetically
 gifted. We (our store) is visited from time to time by 'prophetically
 gifted' persons. We had a visit from such a man in November who proceded
 to
 prophesy over the store and, several persons in it.

 cd: Really? What did he have to say about the store and you guys in it-be
 specific please? Thanks Lance.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


Does this memo from DM mean that he will, also, leave off personal obsevatiosn about our intellectual [in]abilites, our standing with God in Christ and all such related issues? 

We can only hope for the best. Looking forward to the day we only discuss issues. Until then, I will continue to tit your tat !! 

jd



-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Oophs!!
Lance, shot yourself in the foot. How are you ever gonna figure out what DM is
about now?? My mother used to tell me you can catch more flies with honey
than with vinegar... The Lord tells me "He that is without sin among you, let him
cast the first stone" Good thing to remember before stoning a brother. judytFrom: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lance, based upon your previous comment concerning how I wake up to posts about me, I think perhaps it would be prudent for me to stop answering posts about me. So at least for now, I will be ignoring questions and comments about me. I have other more important matters that require my attention around here.

David Miller.

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:49 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


David:

I'm having some diffulty 'catching your drift' (meaning) in paragraphy two.Kindly say the same thing in other words.

Further, please clarify for me (us) two things again/for the first time:

1. Distinguish between a. the office of prophet  do you occupy it? b. isthere an office of king within the believing community  do you occupy it?

thanks for this,

Lance- Original Message - From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: February 15, 2006 07:51Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


 Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too much. For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyond that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this? As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin. Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems defective. David Miller. - Original Message -  From: Lance Muir To: T
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree that misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. DM also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has, of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not be the primary focus. - Original Message -  From: Dean Moore To: T
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding - Original Message -  From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy. cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the one that exists. -- Original message --  From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context- but yo
u are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF? - Original Message -  From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God. 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years. 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 6. The "Trinity" is fals

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Yeah, you guys must be paranoid.  I have no idea what that something else in 
my mind might even be.  No wonder people say that I tend to be naive.  I'm 
still waiting for your answer about Scripture and authority.  Why dodge such 
basic questions?

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Well,  interesting qustion.   Two examples.  Dean recently told G not to be 
belligerent.  I thought to myself  -  is this an order from King Moderator 
or just a passing statement in the course of debate.  We no longer know, do 
we?

Secondly,  when DM questioned me about scripture and the authority of church 
leadership  --  there was the distinct notion, on my part, that something 
else was going on in the mind of David.   Paranoid?  Probably.  Without good 
reason?  I think not.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Am I the only one to have noticed this, John?

 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller
 To:
 Sent: February 15, 2006 07:45
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

  Veiled threats and warnings? What are you talking about?

  David Miller.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Lance Muir
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

  I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I 
  see
  this more from DM with those le ss than veiled threats  warnings 
  directed
  at
  those who dare to disagree with him.

  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

  Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I
  am
  tired of it.

  cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? 
  Others
  do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

  I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am
  talking
  about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment.
  And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to
  the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and
  simple.
  You think the church is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.

  The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and
  study the written word is more than obvious.

  jd

  -- Original message -- 
  From: Dean Moore

  - Original Message - 
  From:
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

  Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read
  this out loud and you will see what I mean. .

  cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
  earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to
  his
  lower statement and you have a cult.

  Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I
  am
  tired of it.

  cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? 
  Others
  do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

  jd

  -- Original message -- 
  From: Dean Moore

  cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his
  earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to
  his
  lower statement and you have a cult.  BR 
  John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
  revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you
  will,
  it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text
  is
  expanded and/or confirmed

  - Original Message - 
  From: Judy Taylor
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

  .Amen Dean,
  JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you
  say
  below ie: in the multitude of
  counsellors there is safety However the counsellors referred to in
  Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
  the Biblical text as you call it. They all say the same thing by the 
  same
  Spirit and this is the counsel in which
  we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

  On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore
  writes:
  cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to
  live
  by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group 
  agrees
  with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like
  preaching
  such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

My comments below.

. John wrote: You know how I feel about the scriptures.No, I really do not. Do you believe that the Scriptures are the infallible Word of God? Are the Scriptures a standard to which all believers must align themselves?
You mean "Do you, John, believe as I do about the scripture, that it is a legal documents to which we must all align ourselves?" No.
The revelation of God's will within our scripture is infallible. How could it not be? It is [the biblical message - whether Catholic or Protestant] the "Word of God" because Godtakes possession of it, using that "Bible" [whether Catholic or Protestant] to providentially accomplish His will in us. It [the Bible, whether Catholic or Portestant] is not the only avenue available to God for accomplishing His purposes in us.
John wrote: But scripture is one thing and my understanding of scripture is another. One is"infallable" and the other is not and that is the case for us all.If this were true, then the Scriptures are no standard at all. Are you saying that our understanding of Scripture is ALWAYS prone to error and therefore none of us can be sure that we understand the Scriptures, ever?
Actually, David, it is all the more critical that the biblical message as pretains to the revelation of God within that messagebe "infallible." My understanding of scripture is not infallable and it is quite obvious that yours is not, as well. The fact that the Bible is "infallable" is no reason to assume that we do not insist upon our own standards of faith and practice. Such is an unavoidable bias.If this is your position, then the Scriptures are not profitable for reproof and correction because someone could always just say that the person giving the correction misunderstands the Scripture.No David. I do not confuse one's understanding of scripture with scripture, itself. If I thought that yours, Judy's, or Dean's understanding of scripture was scritpure itself, I would become an atheist in a matter of minutes. But I know that Christ loves me as I stan
d before Him this day; that He died for me just as I am and that He is working within me and in the community of those surrounding me to bring metothe quality of life I hunger for --- and I believe this, in part, because of the Bible [whether Catholic or Protestant.] As you can tell, with God it is all about "me." Praise God.

For example, homosexuals have a legitimate counter when they claim that the homosexuality forbidden in the Bible has to do with pagan worship and not just same gender lustful behavior per se. Who is to say which interpretation or understanding is right if nobody has an infallible understanding?I have an opinion about this and I am not "inspired." What is the problem, again?

In like manner, someone could argue that Jesus is not really the Messiah talked about in Isaiah 53. Virtually all the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures could be explained away. I truly would like to hear you expound upon your concept here, because either I am misunderstanding you or this is serious false doctrine. You have hit upon the problem of evangelism, David. And how do we solve the problem? Scare them into the church? Devise crafty arugments that cannot be defeated? Wave underwear? Or love them into His grace? Present the work of God in our lives and offer THAT as the strength of our position?
If you and I ever do "team evangelism," it will be in this wise. I will build my church behind your building. That way I can invite the hordes running out your back doors (double wide, no doubt) through the front doors of my chapel. Given enough time, your church, in comparision, will look like a closet space. :-) [how am I doing , G?] John wrote: The authority of leadership within the church is their life, their example.That's part of it, a primary part of it, but not all of it. You keep quoting 1 Cor. 5. This chapter shows a little more than just example when Paul instructs the Corinthians to cast out the sinner from their church.Gee, David, where WAS the leadership of that church? And what kind of "order" was it. I mean, if they decided to deal with
the problemdifferently, what would have happened? And what is there in I Cor 5 that preaches against my claim? When leadership moves from example to authority, tyranny is born and time will record its ugliness!! The church has a history that attests to this fact, does it not? Recently you experienced a 1 Cor. 5 type of discipline from the moderator of this list. I realize that this list is not a church, but do you agree that this kind of exercise of authority is proper in God's eyes? Can't answer that question, David, or I might be cut off again. Does that answer your question? John wrote: The hierarchy of the church is this: Ye who are spiritual help those who are weak. And I speak as one who is leadership.What is your leadership position in your local church? Pastor. I am one no matter where I atte
nd. Does it sound arrogant for me to tell you

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


"overall mass of the group" - is this a fat joke? 

-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 9:31:49 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Yes, and perhaps Dean's criticism is the very strength of the Church. Association with the "group" does tend to keep us in line. Because that has not worked out so well with several on this forum is not an argument against the anointed psychology of "church" or "groupspeak" if you will.

jd
cd:criticism will work only if the overall mass of the group is biblical in their understanding-of course meaning completeness.We (S.P.) do this to each other all the time-and this works well as a nuance for the conformity of the over mass of the group.

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



It 'groupthink' is not so limited. BSF could be an illustration, Dean.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding







- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

John, which is easier to comprehend?  Sin or Christ?

Jesus Christ is far beyond the understanding of any one person.  I'm not 
sure anyone on earth fully understands Jesus Christ.  The subject of sin, 
however, is much more basic and easy to understand.  Furthermore, it is the 
only criteria of God's judgment.  When we all stand before Jesus Christ, the 
Scriptures teach that we will give account to him for the deeds that we have 
done.  We will not take a test on Christology (how well we developed our 
understanding of Christ).  Our moral behavior is much more important than 
our philosophy of the nature of Christ.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody else
is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
defective.   DM

I find this humorously off course.   To put anything ahead of Christological 
didache is a definite predictor of coming and pronounced error.   If your 
Christology is wrong or false,  your view of sin will mirror that 
circumstance.
David's addiction is both evident and frequesntly expressed.  Alas, we 
cannot escape our own person.   My addiction is not apparent to anyone but 
myself and God.  Perhaps this means that I am  closer to full victory than 
David !!  What think ye?

jd



-- Original message -- 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Nobody who has ever known me in person has called me pompous, but I have
 been accused of such from my writing. I think the apostle Paul had a
 similar problem (2 Cor. 10:10) so I'm not going to worry about it too 
 much.

 For what it's worth, I do not lay claim to 'knowing' in a special way 
 beyond
 that of most, IF by most you mean other believers. I do lay claim to
 'knowing' in a special way that is beyond that of the world. It is called
 the Holy Spirit. Do you have a problem with this?

 As for Christology, that does matter, but not nearly so much as sin.
 Believers who testify that they are addicted to sin and so is everybody 
 else
 is of much more serious concern than those whose Christology seems
 defective.

 David Mil ler.


 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

 Anyone here watch hockey? Legitmate body checks are permissible. TT's a
 little like hockey. The serious issue at hand re: 'delusion' is not
 necessarily rooted in wrong doctrine, IMO. However, few would disagree 
 that
 misrepresenting 'who Jesus is' (Christology) matters. Pomposity when
 speaking also matters. DM, IMO, is pompous in a quiet, literate fashion. 
 DM
 also lays claim to 'knowing' in a special way beyong that of most. CD has,
 of late, been adopting such an approach. Judy also, along with DM, lays
 claim to 'inspired' understanding of the Scriptures. Within such an
 engagement as this all we have is 'body checking' and, IMO, that ought not
 be the primary focus.

 - Original Me ssage - 
 From: Dean Moore
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: February 15, 2006 07:08
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding





 - Original Message - 
 From:
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: 2/14/2006 6:02:49 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


 Aahhh --- from you two, mostly from Judy.
 cd: If it is true it is only so under the delusion the worlds suffers
 from-but God does allow that delusion for a reason John. I have no doubt
 that you speak the truth as you see it-but this is much different from the
 one that exists.

 -- Original message -- 
 From: Dean Moore

 cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements 
 that
 have been taken out of context- but yo u are incorrect.By the way who is 
 the
 BSF?



 - Original Message - 
 From:
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


 Let's talk cult, shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF.
 Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with
 who believes the following:

 1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
 changed afterwards.

 2. Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

 3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

 4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some
 spiritual sense.

 5. Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

 6. The Trinity is false doctrine.

 7. God is male and has a penis.

 8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day. 
Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you were trying 
to say.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Sorry about this post.  My wife called me to breakfast !! and I tried to 
put the rockets into high gear.  My apologies.  My little fingers -- all 
eight of them, do their thing while I do mine.  Reconciliation , it seems, 
is quite the personal reality when it comes to [my] writing.  I have been 
giving it more attention, of late  Anyone noticed?

My corrected message is below.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer 
funny.  Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and 
completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any scripture at 
all !!!The esoteric leadings that gave you these passages of thought 
is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult.   Nothing is 
more weird than the argument that God has a penis.   And some continue to 
reference King David's groin, even in private conversation.  I pray for this 
person and his combative [successfully so] son!!  :-)

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see 
this more from DM with those less than veiled threats  warnings directed at 
those who dare to disagree with him.

cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the 
warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible 
can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 
means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, 
Baxter...etc?
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Secondly,   I never said that the group defines God.  Such is a lie and I am 
tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? Others 
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

I do not care what you said.  Do you understand that comment?  I am talking 
about what I said, Dean.   I am talking about what you said of MY comment. 
And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God.   Any comment to 
the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion.Plain and simple. 
You think the church is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.

The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and 
study the written word is more than obvious.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Dean !!!   Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments.   Read 
this out loud and you will see what I mean.  .

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his 
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his 
lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly,   I never said that the group defines God.  Such is a lie and I am 
tired of it.

cd: Do you remember my replying What if they decide He is a calf? Others 
do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his 
earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his 
lower statement and you have a cult.

 John wrote:I see an avenue for  continuing revelation, and if not 
revelation,  certainly interpretation or understanding.   If you will, 
it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is 
expanded and/or confirmed

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say 
below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in 
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing by the same 
Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

A beer in the morning?  Isn't that a sign of alcoholism?  You really have us 
worried now, John!  :-)

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

You have no idea what the it I am speaking of is - quite obviously jd
The it I am speaking of is not your it,  it (read it) is mine.  And I 
know exactly what that it is.   Any questions?

I'm going to go have a beer.

jd

-- Original message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You have no idea what the it I am speaking of is - quite obviously - so I 
wouldn't
be crowing about anything to do with me or BSF if I were you JD lest you be 
found
to be a liar.  Just keep laughing until the men in the white coats 
arrive

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:13:35 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy speaks of BSF and tells us it worksLOL

I will be amending my list through the weekend.  Official BSF appraisal of 
said
beliefs will be shared with this forum.  Should be interesting.  Again  --  
Judy's
name will not be used.  This is not about her, it is about her doctrine.
jd

From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I'm sure it does David. They always have a waiting list so are pretty strict 
about
attendance and they will drop ppl who miss too many meetings. When I had to 
go
to Australia I could look in their book and find meetings over there to 
attend. Same
with every State in the Union and since everyone has the same lesson on the 
same
week - it works.  To complete the whole series takes 7 years.  I am in my 
4th year.

From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have never attended BSF and did not even know what it was until Judy and
John talked about it.  I don't even know if it exists around here in my
community.

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Bible Study Fellowship. Judy attends. (I think David's family attends also.)
- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: February 14, 2006 17:53
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that
have been taken out of context- but you are incorrect.By the way who is the
BSF?

- Original Message - 
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk cult, shall we?   I am taking this list to the local BSF.
Wonder what they will say !!   It will describe a person I am dealing with
who believes the following:

1.  Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being
changed afterwards.

2.  Christ is not the eternal  Son of God.

3.  Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4.  Christ was not the physical descendent of David -  only in some
spiritual sense.

5.  Christ was not God on earth during His ministry.

6.  The Trinity is false doctrine.

7.  God is male and has a penis.

8.  God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books
are not necessary.  Because of this illumination,  the understanding of
acripture can be received from the Spirit without fear of being wrong.
Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and
what it means to say.And those who disagree with this are false teachers
and need to be opposed.

9.  The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.

I would add to this list  --  but I am sure this will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of  cult!!   but nice try.  And
what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way  -  you are the one who has set the tone for this response.
This is the fruit of your ministry.   Accusing me of preaching the occult is
not going to fly.

jd

l message -- 
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinking of Proverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say
below ie: in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety  However the counsellors referred to in
Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it.  They all say the same thing by the same
Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety.  Groupthink??  Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live
by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees
with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching
such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in
the power of the mass.

JD writes:
In the biblical concept of the church
I see an avenue for  continuing

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I can harley weight unetill I can to learn to right like you or Dean may be.

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day. Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you were trying to say. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!" and I tried to put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My little fingers -- all eight of them, do their thing while I do mine. Reconciliation , it seems, is quite the personal reality when it comes to [my] writing. I have bee
n giving it more attention, of late Anyone noticed? My corrected message is below. jd -- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any scripture at all !!! The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is more weird than the argument that God has a penis. And some continue to reference King David's groin, even in private conversation. I pray for this person and his combative [successfully so] son!! :-) jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understandingI believe that cd DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see this more from DM with those less than veiled threats warnings directed at those who dare to disagree with him. cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6 means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill, Baxter...etc? - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment. And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple. You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently. The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and "study" the written word is more than obvious. jd-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moor
e" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Original Message - From: To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understandingDean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. .cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. jd-- Original message -- From: "Dean Mo
ore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult. John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding.Amen Dean, JD I figure you were thinking of Prove

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

John wrote:
 ... I speak as one who is leadership.

David wrote:
 What is your leadership position
 in your local church?

John wrote:
 Pastor.  I am one no matter where I
 attend.   Does it sound arrogant for me
 to tell you that I am the pastor of Sanger,
 California?

No, not necessarily, but the way you have answered this is a little 
perplexing.

I see that Joe Villalobos is the pastor of record for Sanger Foursquare 
Church, 831 O St., Sanger, California.  Do you consider Joe to be your 
pastor?  Would you mind if I called him and talked to him about your 
leadership role in the church?

Or is your fellow pastor someone else?  Roger Whitlow, Carlos Avila, Keith 
Jizmejian, or Willard Wolverton?

Who is in leadership with you in your gift of pastor?

David Miller. 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




Four hours later and it looks like that beer has kicked in! 
:-)

David Miller.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:02 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  I can harley weight unetill I can to learn to right like you 
  or Dean may be.
  
  jd
  
  -- 
Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day. 
 Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you 
were trying  to say.   David Miller  
 - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ;  
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 
11:38 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding 
  Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!" 
and I tried to  put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My 
little fingers -- all  eight of them, do their thing while I do 
mine. Reconciliation , it seems,  is quite the personal reality when 
it comes to [my] writing. I have bee n  giving it more attention, of 
late Anyone noticed?   My corrected message is below. 
  jd   -- Original message 
--  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Dean, 
we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer  
funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and 
 completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any 
scripture at  all !!! The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these 
passages of thought  is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of 
the occult. Nothing is  more weird than the argument that God has a 
penis. And some continue to  reference King David's groin, even in 
private conversation. I pray for this  person and his combative 
[successfully so] son!! :-)   jd   
-- Original message --  From: "Dean Moore" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 - Original Message -  From: Lance Muir  To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM  
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding   
 I believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with 
authority. I see  this more from DM with those less than veiled 
threats  warnings directed at  those who dare to disagree with 
him.   cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with 
Christ that prompts the  warnings about the consequences of sin? We 
support all we say with the Bible  can you group say the same. Your 
group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6  means-because it 
collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill,  Baxter...etc? 
 - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
     Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 
door to understanding Secondly, I never 
said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am  tired of 
it.   cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide 
He is a calf? Others  do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you. 
  I do not care what you said. Do you understand that 
comment? I am talking  about what I said, Dean. I am talking about 
what you said of MY comment.  And nothing in MY comment spoke of a 
group defining God. Any comment to  the contrary is a lie, at this 
stage of the discussion. Plain and simple.  You think the "church" 
is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.   The fact 
that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and  
"study" the written word is more than obvious.   jd  

  -- Original message --  
From: "Dean Moor e" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
   - Original Message -  From: 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 
door to understandingDean !!! Would you p[lease 
slow down and proof read you comments. Read  this out loud and you 
will see what I mean. .cd: Judy the most concern 
that prompted my below reply to John was his  earlier statement of 
the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his  lower 
statement and you have a cult.   Secondly, I never said that 
the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am  tired of it.  
 cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? 
Others  do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.   
jd-- Original message -- 
 From: "Dean Mo ore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  cd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

David Miller wrote:
 If this were true, then the Scriptures are
 no standard at all.  Are you saying that
 our understanding of Scripture is ALWAYS
 prone to error and therefore none of us can
 be sure that we understand the Scriptures, ever?

John wrote:
 Actually, David, it is all the more  critical that the
 biblical message as pretains to the revelation of
 God within that message be infallible.  My
 understanding of scripture is not infallable and it
 is quite obvious that yours is not, as well.

It is quite obvious to me that some of my understanding is infallible.  For 
example, I understand that Jesus is the Messiah.  Is this understanding 
fallible?  Is it subject to error or change?  I think not.

John wrote:
 The fact that the Bible is infallable is no reason
 to assume that we do not insist upon our own
 standards of faith and practice.  Such is an
 unavoidable bias.

If we insist upon our own standards of faith and practice, and we believe 
that our standards are fallable and prone to being wrong, then we would be 
operating out of pride and arrogance.  We should be locked up if that were 
the case.  Nobody has the right to insist that others follow our fallible 
beliefs.

David Miller wrote:
 If this is your position, then the Scriptures are
 not profitable for reproof and correction because
 someone could always just say that the person giving
 the correction misunderstands the Scripture.

John wrote:
 No David.  I do not confuse one's understanding
 of scripture with scripture, itself.  ... I know that
 Christ loves me as I stan d before Him this day;
 that He died for me just as I am and that He is
 working within me and in the community of those
 surrounding me to bring me to the  quality of life
 I hunger for  ---   and I believe this, in part,
 because of the Bible  [whether Catholic or Protestant.]
 As you can tell, with God it is all about me.
 Praise God.

It is all about you, eh?  Well, don't you see that you are operating as if 
your understanding of these things are infallible?  If it is possible that 
you are in error about all this, then you should be open to the idea that 
maybe God is not loving you in the manner that you describe.  But... if you 
do have an infallible understanding here, and I think you do but just won't 
admit that you do, then nobody can take away your assurance that God loves 
you.

John wrote:
 You have hit upon the problem of evangelism,
 David.  And how do we solve the problem?
 Scare them into the church?  Devise crafty
 arugments that cannot be defeated?   Wave
 underwear?  Or love them into His grace?
 Present the work of God in our lives and offer
 THAT as the strength of our position?

How about we leave the work to God and we just be willing vessels to do and 
speak whatever he directs us to do and speak.

John wrote:
 If you and I  ever do team evangelism, it will be
 in this wise.  I will build my church behind your
 building.  That way I can invite the hordes running
 out your back doors  (double wide, no doubt) through
 the front doors of my chapel.  Given enough time,
 your church, in comparision, will look like a closet
 space.  :-)[how am I doing , G?]

Actually, you are getting kind of close to the way this team work goes.  God 
does not allow me to draw men unto me in the kind of work that I do in 
regards to evangelism.  So first off, I don't have a building.  Only you do. 
Then as I preach and people come under conviction, they are baptized and 
believe upon Jesus Christ.  Then they go to your home or the homes of others 
or to church buildings where people congregate around the Lord Jesus Christ. 
They form relationships and grow in the grace of Christ.

David Miller wrote:
 You keep quoting 1 Cor. 5.  This chapter shows
 a little more than just example when Paul instructs
 the Corinthians to cast out the sinner from their
 church.

John wrote:
 Gee, David, where WAS the leadership of that
 church?

They were puffed up, thinking that they could keep this man in fellowship 
even with his sin.

John wrote:
 And what kind of order was it.

An order of holiness, that nobody in the body of Christ should be allowed to 
continue in sin.

John wrote:
 I mean, if they decided to deal with
 the problem differently, what would
 have happened?

Other believers would have fallen into sin, and eventually the whole church 
would be full of sinners.

John wrote:
 And what is there in I Cor 5 that preaches
 against my claim?

The admonition to excommunicate this man is contrary to the way that you 
teach to deal with sin.

John wrote:
 When leadership moves from example to authority,
 tyranny is born and time will record its ugliness!!

Example is authority, John.  Jesus never got rid of authority.  Rather, he 
taught authority how to exercise their power, which is from the bottom up, 
as servants.  Tyranny was not born in 1 Cor. 5.  A man was delivered over to 
Satan that his spirit might be saved.

John wrote:
 The church has a

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-15 Thread ttxpress





myth (the fallibilityin part is 
that it has nothin' to do with theNT gospel; is that it isbasic to 
false doctrine)


On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David 
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
some of my understanding is 
infallible[:] I understand that 
Jesus is the Messiah.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-15 Thread ttxpress







since the writer's fallability lies 
within understanding which he equally obviouslycannot understand, then all 
of his understanding is fallible, inc his comment 'I understand that Jesus is 
the Messiah' 

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:20:13 -0500 "David 
Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:..It is quite obvious to me that some of my 
understanding is infallible...

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


LOL
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Four hours later and it looks like that beer has kicked in! :-)

David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

I can harley weight unetill I can to learn to right like you or Dean may be.

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Unfortunately, you seem to be writing like Gary more and more every day.  Your corrections did not help me much in understanding what you were trying  to say.   David Miller   - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ;  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:38 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding   Sorry about this post. My wife called me to "breakfast !!" and I tried to  put the rockets into high gear. My apologies. My little fingers -- all  eight of them, do their thing while I do mine. Reconciliation , it seems
,  is quite the personal reality when it comes to [my] writing. I have bee n  giving it more attention, of late Anyone noticed?   My corrected message is below.   jd   -- Original message --  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Dean, we have buried you in scripture so many times that it is no longer  funny. Just because you quote scripture that is without explanation and  completely off subject does not mean that you have given us any scripture at  all !!! The esoteric leadings that "gave" you these passages of thought  is the very beginning of a cult and is borne of the occult. Nothing is  more weird than the argument that God has a penis. And some continue to  reference King David's groin, even in private conversation. I pray for this  person and his combative [successfully so] son!! :-)   jd   -- Original message --
  From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  - Original Message -  From: Lance Muir  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: 2/15/2006 6:24:07 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understandingI believe that cd  DM may be confusing intimidation with authority. I see  this more from DM with those less than veiled threats  warnings directed at  those who dare to disagree with him.   cd: Is it disagreeing with David or disagree with Christ that prompts the  warnings about the consequences of sin? We support all we say with the Bible  can you group say the same. Your group cannot even tell me what Rev. 3: 1-6  means-because it collides with your religion.John, Debbie, Bill,  Baxter...etc?  - Original Message -  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org <
BR> Sent: February 14, 2006 18:23  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am  tired of it.   cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others  do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.   I do not care what you said. Do you understand that comment? I am talking  about what I said, Dean. I am talking about what you said of MY comment.  And nothing in MY comment spoke of a group defining God. Any comment to  the contrary is a lie, at this stage of the discussion. Plain and simple.  You think the "church" is all about common folk and bosses, apparently.   The fact that the counsel of many is of no value to you as you read and  "study" the written word is more than obvious.   jd  
;  -- Original message --  From: "Dean Moor e" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  - Original Message -  From:  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  Sent: 2/14/2006 5:58:59 PM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understandingDean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read  this out loud and you will see what I mean. .cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his  earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his  lower statement and you have a cult.   Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am  tired of it.   cd: Do you remember my replying "What if they decide He is a calf? Others  do-I am not lying John-but I forgive you.   jd  
  -- Original message --  From: "Dean Mo ore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his  earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his  lower statement and you have a cult.   John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not  revelation, cert

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/13/2006 7:19:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding


In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His thoughts is borne.
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-14 Thread Lance Muir




Dean:

'birth of a cult'?
'group thinking-no standards to point out 
error'?
'see why your group don't like preaching such as 
David (Miller) does'?

These are rather serious accusations, Dean. These 
are certainly not borne out when reading the 'group' via TT.

I had a rather lengthy conversation just last 
evening with a friend who reads TT regularly. I have for the longest time 
'heard' only one voice on TT, said I to my friend, that has a 'cultic' ring to 
it. That voice belongs to no one in 'the group'. 

Over the decades I've encountered a handful of 
persons who claimed 'special access' to God; 'special giftedness' in 
understanding God; along with 'special insight' into others within the 
'believing' community. I'd totally concur Dean, that such should be viewed with 
caution.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: February 14, 2006 07:02
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
  understanding
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/13/2006 7:19:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to 
understanding


In the biblical concept of 
the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not 
revelation, certainly 
interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the 
counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded 
and/or confirmed. How important, it is, 
then, that the church continue 
to meet in forums such as this 
-- whether virtual or 
physical. A community of 
Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this 
communal reality that our understanding of God and His thoughts is 
borne.
cd: A very good definition of the birth of 
a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to 
point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see 
why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated 
by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the 
mass.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-14 Thread Judy Taylor




.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 
11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the 
"counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall 
say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in 
which
we find safety. Groupthink?? 
Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the 
birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to 
point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why 
your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the 
many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

  
   
  
JD writes:

In the biblical concept of 
the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not 
revelation, certainly 
interpretation or understanding. 
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical 
text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, 
then, that the church continue 
to meet in forums such as this 
-- whether virtual or 
physical. A community of 
Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this 
communal reality that our understanding of God and His thoughts is 
borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-14 Thread Lance Muir

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to
understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs
11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the
"counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall
say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in
which
we find safety. Groupthink??
Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
cd: A very good definition of the
birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards
to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see
why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by
the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of
the church
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not
revelation, certainly
interpretation or understanding.
If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical
text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is,
then, that the church
continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals
Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality
that our understanding of God and His thoughts is borne.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-14 Thread knpraise

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following:

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards.

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense.

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry.

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine.

7. God is male and has a penis.

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripturecan be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say. And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed.

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.

I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent .
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree?

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly.

l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
houghts is borne.

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding




cd: I am not sure where you got this twisted version of our statements that have been taken out of context-but you are incorrect.By the way who is the BSF?




- Original Message - 
From: 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 1:25:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

Let's talk "cult," shall we? I am taking this list to the local BSF. Wonder what they will say !! It will describe a person I am dealing with who believes the following: 

1. Adam and Eve were spirit beings before the fall -- their flesh being changed afterwards. 

2. Christ is not the "eternal " Son of God.

3. Christ was of human flesh for only 3 1/2 years.

4. Christ was not the physical descendent of David - only in some spiritual sense. 

5. Christ was not "God on earth" during His ministry. 

6. The "Trinity" is false doctrine. 

7. God is male and has a penis. 

8. God illuminates His disciples to the extent that discussion and books are not necessary.Because of this "illumination," the understanding of acripturecan be"received" from the Spirit without fear of being wrong. Those who have this Spirit cannot be mistaken when it comes to the Bible and what it means to say.  And those who disagree with this are false teachers and need to be opposed. 

9. The old law is binding and continues to be something we must obey.


I would add to this list -- but I am sure this will be sufficent . 
Dean, you and Judy are the very definition of "cult!!" but nice try. And what do you want to bet that BSF will not agree? 

By the way - you are the one who has set the tone for this response. This is the fruit of your ministry. Accusing me of preaching the occult is not going to fly. 

jd




 







l message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding









- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:50:51 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

BSF/Groupthink? Hmm
cd; Group thinking come from psychology.People are prone to go with the direction of the overall group-right or wrong.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: February 14, 2006 07:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

2006-02-14 Thread knpraise


Dean !!! Would you p[lease slow down and proof read you comments. Read this out loud and you will see what I mean. .

 

cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

Secondly, I never said that the group defines God. Such is a lie and I am tired of it. 

jd


-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


cd: Judy the most concern that prompted my below reply to John was his earlier statement of the God is who the group decides He is-tie that to his lower statement and you have a cult.

John wrote:I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed




- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 2/14/2006 7:28:31 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding

.Amen Dean,
JD I figure you were thinkingofProverbs 11:14b when you wrote what you say below ie: "in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety" However the "counsellors" referred to in Proverbs ARE those of God's Word or
the Biblical text as you call it. Theyall say the same thing by the same Spirit and this is the counsel in which
we find safety. Groupthink?? Anathema!!

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:02:15 -0500 "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cd: A very good definition of the birth of a cult John. No one truth to live by but group thinking-No standards to point our error if the group agrees with the present circumstance-I can see why your group don't like preaching such as David does-the one is dominated by the many as his voice is lost in the power of the mass.


 

JD writes:

In the biblical concept of the church 
I see an avenue for continuing revelation, and if not revelation, certainly interpretation or understanding. If you will, it is in the counsel of many that our understanding of the biblical text is expanded and/or confirmed. How important, it is, then, that the church continue to meet in forums such as this -- whether virtual or physical. A community of Being reveals Himself to a community of Believers and it is out of this communal reality that our understanding of God and His t
 houghts is borne.

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] The door to understanding