Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
I guess what I would like to know is since I'm a hobbyist, am I going to get my token revoked just because I write a client that is just for my use to better my skills in learning a specific programming language and share with others things I've learned. -Dustin This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Raffi So if I'm reading what you wrote correctly, simple clients that just display a timeline, post etc are thinking too small and there is no business there, something I can agree with. However many of us have, what I'd call a value added client. Sure we have the basics of a client, but we have what I'd like to think are added value services such as tweet scheduling, augmented reality of tweeters around you, user streams, draft management, and so much more. Are we to think that these are actually going to be fine for the time being, so long as obviously we comply with the ToS. What you guys seem to be saying though is don't build clients because it won't make money, but some people seem to fail to grasp some of us develop apps like this because we enjoy it... it's a hobby and a passion and that doesn't always involve tons of profit. Services such as Seesmic started out in the simple Client business, remember Twhirl, etc. Sure they grew into something enterprise, but most of us start out at the bottom and with the basics. Richard On Mar 13, 2:39 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya. .. I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Providing you don't participate in any spamming, I would think your application is perfectly safe. On 13 Mar 2011, at 11:51, Dustin Lennon wrote: I guess what I would like to know is since I'm a hobbyist, am I going to get my token revoked just because I write a client that is just for my use to better my skills in learning a specific programming language and share with others things I've learned. -Dustin This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Raffi So if I'm reading what you wrote correctly, simple clients that just display a timeline, post etc are thinking too small and there is no business there, something I can agree with. However many of us have, what I'd call a value added client. Sure we have the basics of a client, but we have what I'd like to think are added value services such as tweet scheduling, augmented reality of tweeters around you, user streams, draft management, and so much more. Are we to think that these are actually going to be fine for the time being, so long as obviously we comply with the ToS. What you guys seem to be saying though is don't build clients because it won't make money, but some people seem to fail to grasp some of us develop apps like this because we enjoy it... it's a hobby and a passion and that doesn't always involve tons of profit. Services such as Seesmic started out in the simple Client business, remember Twhirl, etc. Sure they grew into something enterprise, but most of us start out at the bottom and with the basics. Richard On Mar 13, 2:39 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya... I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Raffi, You wrote, ...focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. This approach perpetuates and aggravates the fears and hostility in the developer community that you (Twitter) sprouted when you bought Tweetie, and absolutely nothing has been said or done by Twitter to address or allay any fears or concerns that Twitter will, soon or at some point in the future, rake in another segment of developer- provided functionality. Since so much money and potential lie in analytics, it will not surprise me in the least if that will be the target of Twitter's next take-over. You've already clearly illustrated: a) The willingness and capability to grab a segment away from the ecosystem; b) The willingness and capability to guide and even force developers out of that segment. Meaning, you have the blueprint of how to do it to any of the other segments that you're now encouraging developers to focus on. This is like deja vu. It's the pre-Chirp discussion all over again. Much has changed and nothing has changed. Twitter has not yet answered the following question, even though it is a question on everyone's minds and has been since last year: Why should anyone believe you will not encroach and push developers out of the segments that you now encourage them to focus on? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Agreed. On Mar 13, 2011, at 4:58, Scott Wilcox sc...@dor.ky wrote: Providing you don't participate in any spamming, I would think your application is perfectly safe. On 13 Mar 2011, at 11:51, Dustin Lennon wrote: I guess what I would like to know is since I'm a hobbyist, am I going to get my token revoked just because I write a client that is just for my use to better my skills in learning a specific programming language and share with others things I've learned. -Dustin This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 1:22 AM, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Raffi So if I'm reading what you wrote correctly, simple clients that just display a timeline, post etc are thinking too small and there is no business there, something I can agree with. However many of us have, what I'd call a value added client. Sure we have the basics of a client, but we have what I'd like to think are added value services such as tweet scheduling, augmented reality of tweeters around you, user streams, draft management, and so much more. Are we to think that these are actually going to be fine for the time being, so long as obviously we comply with the ToS. What you guys seem to be saying though is don't build clients because it won't make money, but some people seem to fail to grasp some of us develop apps like this because we enjoy it... it's a hobby and a passion and that doesn't always involve tons of profit. Services such as Seesmic started out in the simple Client business, remember Twhirl, etc. Sure they grew into something enterprise, but most of us start out at the bottom and with the basics. Richard On Mar 13, 2:39 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya... I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group:
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
I have a set of apps that basically just reproduces the official Twitter user experience, exactly what Twitter says we should not do. However, I add value by running on a platform that Twitter does not support and is unlikely to ever support. I believe this should be allowed and encouraged and would appreciate a statement to that effect. Furthermore, this is probably not the only exception to the don't just reproduce Twitter rule. Please consider that there may be entire areas of innovation that you have not thought of - that's why it's called innovation. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Similar situation, although Raffi's response above is slightly more reassuring. On Mar 13, 3:34 pm, Jef Poskanzer jef.poskan...@gmail.com wrote: I have a set of apps that basically just reproduces the official Twitter user experience, exactly what Twitter says we should not do. However, I add value by running on a platform that Twitter does not support and is unlikely to ever support. I believe this should be allowed and encouraged and would appreciate a statement to that effect. Furthermore, this is probably not the only exception to the don't just reproduce Twitter rule. Please consider that there may be entire areas of innovation that you have not thought of - that's why it's called innovation. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Yes, Raffi's posts have made me feel a *lot* better about all of this. I hope his comments will be reflected in some way by an 'official' message from Twitter. It's not that I don't believe Raffi, I do, but it bothers me that Ryan or someone hasn't yet come back to explicitly confirm Raffi's comments (which, it should be noted, came with a disclaimer). -Craig On 13 March 2011 11:38, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Similar situation, although Raffi's response above is slightly more reassuring. On Mar 13, 3:34 pm, Jef Poskanzer jef.poskan...@gmail.com wrote: I have a set of apps that basically just reproduces the official Twitter user experience, exactly what Twitter says we should not do. However, I add value by running on a platform that Twitter does not support and is unlikely to ever support. I believe this should be allowed and encouraged and would appreciate a statement to that effect. Furthermore, this is probably not the only exception to the don't just reproduce Twitter rule. Please consider that there may be entire areas of innovation that you have not thought of - that's why it's called innovation. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
i, personally, totally concur. what i don't think anybody can do is fully predict what platforms twitter will develop for next (although, you probably can make a guess as you see market-share play out). what i would say is that, if you are building a twitter client, twitter, as a company, will probably hold you to a much higher bar than those who are not. we do have a strong opinion regarding rendering, display, interaction, etc. innovation, in my mind, is around doing something revolutionary, and not necessarily evolutionary. there is plenty to do out there that is not evolutionary. On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 8:34 AM, Jef Poskanzer jef.poskan...@gmail.comwrote: I have a set of apps that basically just reproduces the official Twitter user experience, exactly what Twitter says we should not do. However, I add value by running on a platform that Twitter does not support and is unlikely to ever support. I believe this should be allowed and encouraged and would appreciate a statement to that effect. Furthermore, this is probably not the only exception to the don't just reproduce Twitter rule. Please consider that there may be entire areas of innovation that you have not thought of - that's why it's called innovation. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Services http://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Tweet button count still not updating.
I am facing the same issue as well. I've set the URL manually, but it doesnt record the number of tweets as well. Any idea how this can be solved? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] consistency and ecosystem opportunities
With this in mind, we’ve updated our Terms of Service: http://dev.twitter.com/pages/api_terms. The Opportunity for Developers Developers have told us that they’d like more guidance from us about the best opportunities to build on Twitter. More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. Reviewing the API TOS at http://dev.twitter.com/pages/api_terms, it seems to be more generously worded than was Ryan's post. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] trends available in Malaysia?
The following lat long is in Malaysia but the return result is not in malaysia. I am wondering this service available in malaysia? http://api.twitter.com/1/trends/available.json?lat=3.144491long=101.711404 -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Except every day I hear people go I hate new twitter, I want feature y, I wish it didn't do that. I run a port of dabr, I don't do it for the money (no ads on the site) I do it for the love of programming. Working out ways to get thumbnail images in to the timeline. To have different displays depending on the device or choice of the user. Being able to come up with an idea whilst at work, and 2 hours at the keyboard when I get home to have it working. The number of users on my client is probably five, but I'm finding it odd that Twitter insist that I'm wasting my efforts. If you are so confident that you have a large enough market of the timeline clients why stop competition? Ryan ps, I'm guessing that I'm counted in the 90% who use a twitter client, but it's install on my android device any is only used to sync up to my contacts. On Mar 13, 4:38 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.comwrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
I used to be counted in the 90% until they defaced Tweetie, sorry, Twitter for iPhone with that moronic #DickBar that shoves irrelevant nonsense in your face. It's like yelling at you, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS, BUT HERE, TAKE IT ANYWAY. LEARN #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN AND TRY TO #FARTLIKEJUSTINBIEBER AND OH, JUST WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, HERE'S ANOTHER STUPID ONE THAT'S NOT TRENDING AT ALL, BUT SOMEONE PAID US TO SHOVE IT IN YOUR FACE!!! Are any of you guys developing a better Twitter client for iPhone, because I'll switch in a heartbeat. Oh... Wait On Mar 13, 3:25 pm, artesea ryancul...@gmail.com wrote: Except every day I hear people go I hate new twitter, I want feature y, I wish it didn't do that. I run a port of dabr, I don't do it for the money (no ads on the site) I do it for the love of programming. Working out ways to get thumbnail images in to the timeline. To have different displays depending on the device or choice of the user. Being able to come up with an idea whilst at work, and 2 hours at the keyboard when I get home to have it working. The number of users on my client is probably five, but I'm finding it odd that Twitter insist that I'm wasting my efforts. If you are so confident that you have a large enough market of the timeline clients why stop competition? Ryan ps, I'm guessing that I'm counted in the 90% who use a twitter client, but it's install on my android device any is only used to sync up to my contacts. On Mar 13, 4:38 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.comwrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
You still have the ability to change to a newly developed client if you want to. Sent from my iPhone On 13 Mar 2011, at 18:50, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I used to be counted in the 90% until they defaced Tweetie, sorry, Twitter for iPhone with that moronic #DickBar that shoves irrelevant nonsense in your face. It's like yelling at you, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS, BUT HERE, TAKE IT ANYWAY. LEARN #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN AND TRY TO #FARTLIKEJUSTINBIEBER AND OH, JUST WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, HERE'S ANOTHER STUPID ONE THAT'S NOT TRENDING AT ALL, BUT SOMEONE PAID US TO SHOVE IT IN YOUR FACE!!! Are any of you guys developing a better Twitter client for iPhone, because I'll switch in a heartbeat. Oh... Wait On Mar 13, 3:25 pm, artesea ryancul...@gmail.com wrote: Except every day I hear people go I hate new twitter, I want feature y, I wish it didn't do that. I run a port of dabr, I don't do it for the money (no ads on the site) I do it for the love of programming. Working out ways to get thumbnail images in to the timeline. To have different displays depending on the device or choice of the user. Being able to come up with an idea whilst at work, and 2 hours at the keyboard when I get home to have it working. The number of users on my client is probably five, but I'm finding it odd that Twitter insist that I'm wasting my efforts. If you are so confident that you have a large enough market of the timeline clients why stop competition? Ryan ps, I'm guessing that I'm counted in the 90% who use a twitter client, but it's install on my android device any is only used to sync up to my contacts. On Mar 13, 4:38 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.comwrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
You're missing the next step, Scott. The #DickBar will become mandatory for all clients. On Mar 13, 3:54 pm, Scott Wilcox sc...@dor.ky wrote: You still have the ability to change to a newly developed client if you want to. Sent from my iPhone On 13 Mar 2011, at 18:50, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I used to be counted in the 90% until they defaced Tweetie, sorry, Twitter for iPhone with that moronic #DickBar that shoves irrelevant nonsense in your face. It's like yelling at you, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS, BUT HERE, TAKE IT ANYWAY. LEARN #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN AND TRY TO #FARTLIKEJUSTINBIEBER AND OH, JUST WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, HERE'S ANOTHER STUPID ONE THAT'S NOT TRENDING AT ALL, BUT SOMEONE PAID US TO SHOVE IT IN YOUR FACE!!! Are any of you guys developing a better Twitter client for iPhone, because I'll switch in a heartbeat. Oh... Wait On Mar 13, 3:25 pm, artesea ryancul...@gmail.com wrote: Except every day I hear people go I hate new twitter, I want feature y, I wish it didn't do that. I run a port of dabr, I don't do it for the money (no ads on the site) I do it for the love of programming. Working out ways to get thumbnail images in to the timeline. To have different displays depending on the device or choice of the user. Being able to come up with an idea whilst at work, and 2 hours at the keyboard when I get home to have it working. The number of users on my client is probably five, but I'm finding it odd that Twitter insist that I'm wasting my efforts. If you are so confident that you have a large enough market of the timeline clients why stop competition? Ryan ps, I'm guessing that I'm counted in the 90% who use a twitter client, but it's install on my android device any is only used to sync up to my contacts. On Mar 13, 4:38 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.comwrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I used to be counted in the 90% until they defaced Tweetie, sorry, Twitter for iPhone with that moronic #DickBar that shoves irrelevant nonsense in your face. It's like yelling at you, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS, BUT HERE, TAKE IT ANYWAY. LEARN #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN AND TRY TO #FARTLIKEJUSTINBIEBER AND OH, JUST WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, HERE'S ANOTHER STUPID ONE THAT'S NOT TRENDING AT ALL, BUT SOMEONE PAID US TO SHOVE IT IN YOUR FACE!!! Are any of you guys developing a better Twitter client for iPhone, because I'll switch in a heartbeat. Oh... Wait Dewald, you have to remember that Twitter isn't the only granfalloon that one must deal with on the iPhone - there's Apple, too. If Steve Jobs didn't like the #DickBar, how long do you suppose it would last? ;-) -- http://twitter.com/znmeb http://borasky-research.net A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. -- Paul Erdős -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
On my Android phone I have both the official Twitter client and Twidroid installed. If they had more or less the same functionailty and useability I would prefer to use the official client. However I only use Twidroid, because Twitter's official app is inferior. I could explain why in detail if anyone is interested, but it's not a subtle matter, it's gross and obvious. Twitter apparently believes that no one should bother making a plain old timeline-displaying client because Twitter's official ones are all you need. And yet even with Twidroid's prior example to copy from, Twitter's official Android client is still unusable. I say this one example shows that the new policy Ryan posted is at best premature. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 12:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Jef Poskanzer jef.poskan...@gmail.com wrote: On my Android phone I have both the official Twitter client and Twidroid installed. If they had more or less the same functionailty and useability I would prefer to use the official client. However I only use Twidroid, because Twitter's official app is inferior. I could explain why in detail if anyone is interested, but it's not a subtle matter, it's gross and obvious. Twitter apparently believes that no one should bother making a plain old timeline-displaying client because Twitter's official ones are all you need. And yet even with Twidroid's prior example to copy from, Twitter's official Android client is still unusable. I say this one example shows that the new policy Ryan posted is at best premature. I've been holding off on the Android issue, but since you brought it up ... I have a Verizon HTC Droid Incredible. I've tried *all* the Twitter clients. I've tried the one that's built in, Peep, I've tried every release of Twitter's native client. I've tried the mobile Twitter web site in the browser. I've tried Twidroyd, Touiteur, TweetDeck, HootSuite, Seesmic and probably a few others I've forgotten. The most recent version of Twitter's native app is the *only* one of that line that I consider even marginally usable. And yet in terms of usability, it is still way behind Seesmic. Seesmic is the one I use. I'd *love* to use Twitter's native app, but until it does everything Seesmic does, it's not going to happen. -- http://twitter.com/znmeb http://borasky-research.net A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. -- Paul Erdős -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Ed, I don't have an issue with the size, placing, or color of the #DickBar box. I have an issue with the fact that it shoves stuff in my face that is of absolutely no interest to me. Google got ads right. When your search results include a list of news articles about the Japan earthquake, they don't show ads next to them that yell, #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN. On Mar 13, 4:18 pm, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky zn...@borasky- research.net wrote: On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I used to be counted in the 90% until they defaced Tweetie, sorry, Twitter for iPhone with that moronic #DickBar that shoves irrelevant nonsense in your face. It's like yelling at you, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS, BUT HERE, TAKE IT ANYWAY. LEARN #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN AND TRY TO #FARTLIKEJUSTINBIEBER AND OH, JUST WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, HERE'S ANOTHER STUPID ONE THAT'S NOT TRENDING AT ALL, BUT SOMEONE PAID US TO SHOVE IT IN YOUR FACE!!! Are any of you guys developing a better Twitter client for iPhone, because I'll switch in a heartbeat. Oh... Wait Dewald, you have to remember that Twitter isn't the only granfalloon that one must deal with on the iPhone - there's Apple, too. If Steve Jobs didn't like the #DickBar, how long do you suppose it would last? ;-) -- http://twitter.com/znmebhttp://borasky-research.net A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. -- Paul Erdős -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Relevance in microblogging. Big opportunity but very difficult to define. Last i read, even google is stumped. Cheers Umashankar Das On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Ed, I don't have an issue with the size, placing, or color of the #DickBar box. I have an issue with the fact that it shoves stuff in my face that is of absolutely no interest to me. Google got ads right. When your search results include a list of news articles about the Japan earthquake, they don't show ads next to them that yell, #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN. On Mar 13, 4:18 pm, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky zn...@borasky- research.net wrote: On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:49:45 -0700 (PDT), Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: I used to be counted in the 90% until they defaced Tweetie, sorry, Twitter for iPhone with that moronic #DickBar that shoves irrelevant nonsense in your face. It's like yelling at you, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS, BUT HERE, TAKE IT ANYWAY. LEARN #WHATNOTTOSAYTOAFATWOMAN AND TRY TO #FARTLIKEJUSTINBIEBER AND OH, JUST WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, HERE'S ANOTHER STUPID ONE THAT'S NOT TRENDING AT ALL, BUT SOMEONE PAID US TO SHOVE IT IN YOUR FACE!!! Are any of you guys developing a better Twitter client for iPhone, because I'll switch in a heartbeat. Oh... Wait Dewald, you have to remember that Twitter isn't the only granfalloon that one must deal with on the iPhone - there's Apple, too. If Steve Jobs didn't like the #DickBar, how long do you suppose it would last? ;-) -- http://twitter.com/znmebhttp://borasky-research.net A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. -- Paul Erdős -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 01:32:27 +0530, Umashankar Das umashankar...@gmail.com wrote: Relevance in microblogging. Big opportunity but very difficult to define. Last i read, even google is stumped. Cheers Umashankar Das I don't think it's relevance that stumps Google so much as privacy. It's a lot of work for users to control how much they reveal and to whom, and the Holy Grail of permission marketing - timely, relevant and personal - runs square up against that. I'm cynical enough to think that the sole consumer benefit that has come from social media, including Twitter and Facebook, is the ability to talk back to granfalloons like the State Department, United Airlines and Google. Everything else about the technologies simply reduces costs to marketers, and those cost reductions are not passed on to consumers in the form of less expensive or higher-quality products and services. ;-) -- http://twitter.com/znmeb http://borasky-research.net A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. -- Paul Erdős -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
i don't think we've said its a waste of time, especially for something like dabr. and, again, its not that we're stopping the competition -- we've said that if you are building a regular timeline client, we're going to be holding you to a higher bar. in our opinion, its not a good -business- to be in. i would love to see dabr, and other smaller, niche clients that are done out of enjoyment of coding, love of programming, etc. to continue! On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM, artesea ryancul...@gmail.com wrote: Except every day I hear people go I hate new twitter, I want feature y, I wish it didn't do that. I run a port of dabr, I don't do it for the money (no ads on the site) I do it for the love of programming. Working out ways to get thumbnail images in to the timeline. To have different displays depending on the device or choice of the user. Being able to come up with an idea whilst at work, and 2 hours at the keyboard when I get home to have it working. The number of users on my client is probably five, but I'm finding it odd that Twitter insist that I'm wasting my efforts. If you are so confident that you have a large enough market of the timeline clients why stop competition? Ryan ps, I'm guessing that I'm counted in the 90% who use a twitter client, but it's install on my android device any is only used to sync up to my contacts. On Mar 13, 4:38 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Raffi, Can you (Twitter) please get your message straight? Here's what Ryan said, More specifically, developers ask us if they should build client apps that mimic or reproduce the mainstream Twitter consumer client experience. The answer is no. No you're saying something different. So, which is it? On Mar 13, 6:23 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: i don't think we've said its a waste of time, especially for something like dabr. and, again, its not that we're stopping the competition -- we've said that if you are building a regular timeline client, we're going to be holding you to a higher bar. in our opinion, its not a good -business- to be in. i would love to see dabr, and other smaller, niche clients that are done out of enjoyment of coding, love of programming, etc. to continue! On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM, artesea ryancul...@gmail.com wrote: Except every day I hear people go I hate new twitter, I want feature y, I wish it didn't do that. I run a port of dabr, I don't do it for the money (no ads on the site) I do it for the love of programming. Working out ways to get thumbnail images in to the timeline. To have different displays depending on the device or choice of the user. Being able to come up with an idea whilst at work, and 2 hours at the keyboard when I get home to have it working. The number of users on my client is probably five, but I'm finding it odd that Twitter insist that I'm wasting my efforts. If you are so confident that you have a large enough market of the timeline clients why stop competition? Ryan ps, I'm guessing that I'm counted in the 90% who use a twitter client, but it's install on my android device any is only used to sync up to my contacts. On Mar 13, 4:38 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: users/lookup returns duplicates, missing records for valid users
Thanks for investigating :) Just thought I'd add that I'm also affected by this, and when I investigated I discovered that the exact selection of users which are omitted and duplicated is relatively stable; that is, if I run the same set of lookups on the same chunks of 100 users, it will almost always be the same users who are missing and duplicated. This can vary slightly over a course of days, but consecutive requests fail in the same way. I hope this assists the Twitter team in debugging the issue. Thanks, Adrian -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Hey Ryan - thanks for the response. I'm sure enough people have made the same points now and you've taken more crap than you'd care to. But just to clarify my comment, Seesmic on WP7 is nothing but a client IMO. Anywho - thanks for responding. At the end of the day Twitter's a great place to develop and I'm sure most of the outcry stems from disappointment and hopefully a misinterpretation. dw. On Mar 13, 12:51 am, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: David, we are specifically talking about consumer clients. HootSuite and Seesmic are focused on a more enterprise or marketer audience as I called out at the bottom of the email. Best, Ryan -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 12:32 AM, David W d_wy...@yahoo.com wrote: It seems a little confusing that you're basically saying don't build any more Twitter clients and then call out the likes of Hoot Suite and Seesmic as being examples of what people should be doing. At heart they're just Twitter clients (that we shouldn't build any more?) They also appear to be conflict with section 5e of the Ts Cs: You may not use Twitter Content or other data collected from end users of your Client to create or maintain a separate status update or social network database or service. I guess what confuses me most, is the motivation behind this announcement? I mean sure, no-one wants apps out there that take advantage of end users and give them a rough ride, but as you said yourself 90% of users aren't getting that experience and as someone else said; good apps will always bubble to the top. I think it's incredibly disappointing to hear Twitter tell dev's not to create clients any more. No developer sets out to create a bad Twitter client. They set out to improve the Twitter experience, because they believe they can and generally because they love Twitter. Arguably Twitter wouldn't be where it is today if it weren't for those that did exactly that. Unless we've all misunderstood what's been said here, then I'd question investing any time or money into the focusing on what are, today, areas outside the mainstream consumer client experience. Sure go ahead and innovate in the areas Twitter tells you you're allowed to... for now. What happens when Twitter sees the new innovation you've just discovered is really popular? Do we get another announcement telling dev's not to develop that stuff any more? Like I say, I hope we've all misunderstood the message here (I really do). I've no beef with the Ts Cs. But please don't tell people to stop developing clients that people work hard on and that users love. On Mar 11, 8:18 pm, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: Hey all, I’d like to give you an update about the state of the Twitter Platform and hopefully provide some much requested guidance. Since this time last year, Twitter use has skyrocketed. We’ve grown from 48 million to 140 million tweets a day and we’re registering new accounts at an all-time record. This massive base of users, publishers, and businesses is a giant playground for developers to build their own businesses on, and this means the opportunity has grown for everyone. With more people joining Twitter and accessing the service in multiple ways, a consistent user experience is more crucial than ever. As we talked about last April, this was our motivation for buying Tweetie and developing our own official iPhone app. It is the reason why we have developed official apps for the Mac, iPad, Android and Windows Phone, and worked with RIM on their Twitter for Blackberry app. As a result, the top five ways that people access Twitter are official Twitter apps. Still, our user research shows that consumers continue to be confused by the different ways that a fractured landscape of third-party Twitter clients display tweets and let users interact with core Twitter functions. For example, people get confused by websites or clients that display tweets in a way that doesn’t follow our design guidelines, or when services put their own verbs on tweets instead of the ones used on Twitter. Similarly, a number of third-party consumer clients use their own versions of suggested users, trends, and other data streams, confusing users in our network even more. Users should be able to view, retweet, and reply to @nytimes’ tweets the same way; see the same profile information about @whitehouse; and be able to join in the discussion around the same trending topics as everyone else across Twitter. *A Consistent User Experience* Twitter is a network, and its network effects are driven by users seeing and contributing to the network’s conversations. We need to ensure users can interact with Twitter the same way everywhere. Specifically: - *The mainstream consumer client experience*.
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
On Mar 13, 2:23 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: if you are building a regular timeline client, we're going to be holding you to a higher bar. That is reasonable. However we have to wonder if Twitter's people will/can be fair in applying this standard to 3rd party clients whose selling point is 'like Twitter's but improved'. I gave Twidroid as an example. Here's another one. The Twitter web interface for direct messages is completely worthless - again I would be happy to dissect it in detail if requested. I have considered deploying my own web interface that is as close as possible to Twitter's except with a working DM UI. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Hi Raffi If that is the case then it's very reassuring to hear On Mar 13, 9:23 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: i don't think we've said its a waste of time, especially for something like dabr. and, again, its not that we're stopping the competition -- we've said that if you are building a regular timeline client, we're going to be holding you to a higher bar. in our opinion, its not a good -business- to be in. i would love to see dabr, and other smaller, niche clients that are done out of enjoyment of coding, love of programming, etc. to continue! On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM, artesea ryancul...@gmail.com wrote: Except every day I hear people go I hate new twitter, I want feature y, I wish it didn't do that. I run a port of dabr, I don't do it for the money (no ads on the site) I do it for the love of programming. Working out ways to get thumbnail images in to the timeline. To have different displays depending on the device or choice of the user. Being able to come up with an idea whilst at work, and 2 hours at the keyboard when I get home to have it working. The number of users on my client is probably five, but I'm finding it odd that Twitter insist that I'm wasting my efforts. If you are so confident that you have a large enough market of the timeline clients why stop competition? Ryan ps, I'm guessing that I'm counted in the 90% who use a twitter client, but it's install on my android device any is only used to sync up to my contacts. On Mar 13, 4:38 am, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: hey adam. i can't speak officially and definitively, however, we don't think there are as many business opportunities in making a piece of software that *simply* renders any of our timeline methods (/1/statuses/home_timeline,/1/statuses/mentions, lists, etc.). that's your #1. you're right, we do think there is a lot to be done with tweet summarization, curation, selection, matching, etc. focus your efforts on that and just follow our lead with tweet rendering and interaction. does that help? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Adam Green 140...@gmail.com wrote: Can we get a definition of client? This seems to be where we are talking across each other. 1. Twitter HQ sees a client as an app that displays *only* a user's home time line and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. 2. Developers see a client as an app that displays tweets from any source, including the home timeline *and* those that are curated by editors and algorithms, and allows the user to tweet, retweet, follow, etc. I think to Twitter HQ, these are two very different things. I believe that this is what Ryan was trying to say. I believe that Ryan was trying to say, don't build apps that *only* do 1. You will have more luck with 2. Developers heard don't build apps that do 2 or you will be instantly shut down. If Ryan hadn't combined his message with things that inadvertently also were perceived as a threat of instant shutdown as a result of an innocent misunderstanding of the rules, his statement would have been taken as advice, rather than a threat. I believe he meant well. He failed. He should keep trying until everyone understands. That is his job. Or it should at least be someone's job. Collectively the developers are worth the effort. Hey, why not hold a conference, put everyone together, and talk until this is clear? You can afford it. We all need it. Your future IPO investors aren't stupid. Well, at least not all of them. It is not just your revenue numbers they will see. It is lots of either happy or unhappy developers. We will raise your valuation. Keep saying that to Dick and the Board. They need to understand that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: is the twitter client what's the most useful thing there? i would think the algorithms and system to match tweets to that content is the most fruitful place for entrepreneurship? On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks, Raffi, but obviously I'm not the only one reaching these conclusions. If our interpretation is incorrect, then the policy isn't clear. Television shows, newspaper articles, and band pages are perfect examples of places where a Twitter client might be useful. I could build a full-featured Twitter client around a single news site and that might be the perfect solution for that set of users. Under the new guidelines, it sounds like I'd be shutdown. On Mar 12, 6:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
To be clear, Raffi is clearly articulating the situation. It's a complex thing and we can't expect to get it perfectly right the first time, so the dialogue and questions are great. Raffi is also a much better communicator than I am :) -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Craig cpa...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Raffi's posts have made me feel a *lot* better about all of this. I hope his comments will be reflected in some way by an 'official' message from Twitter. It's not that I don't believe Raffi, I do, but it bothers me that Ryan or someone hasn't yet come back to explicitly confirm Raffi's comments (which, it should be noted, came with a disclaimer). -Craig On 13 March 2011 11:38, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Similar situation, although Raffi's response above is slightly more reassuring. On Mar 13, 3:34 pm, Jef Poskanzer jef.poskan...@gmail.com wrote: I have a set of apps that basically just reproduces the official Twitter user experience, exactly what Twitter says we should not do. However, I add value by running on a platform that Twitter does not support and is unlikely to ever support. I believe this should be allowed and encouraged and would appreciate a statement to that effect. Furthermore, this is probably not the only exception to the don't just reproduce Twitter rule. Please consider that there may be entire areas of innovation that you have not thought of - that's why it's called innovation. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Raffi, now is the right time to ask for a raise. Just saying... On Mar 13, 8:09 pm, Ryan Sarver rsar...@twitter.com wrote: To be clear, Raffi is clearly articulating the situation. It's a complex thing and we can't expect to get it perfectly right the first time, so the dialogue and questions are great. Raffi is also a much better communicator than I am :) -- Ryan Sarver @rsarver http://twitter.com/rsarver On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Craig cpa...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Raffi's posts have made me feel a *lot* better about all of this. I hope his comments will be reflected in some way by an 'official' message from Twitter. It's not that I don't believe Raffi, I do, but it bothers me that Ryan or someone hasn't yet come back to explicitly confirm Raffi's comments (which, it should be noted, came with a disclaimer). -Craig On 13 March 2011 11:38, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Similar situation, although Raffi's response above is slightly more reassuring. On Mar 13, 3:34 pm, Jef Poskanzer jef.poskan...@gmail.com wrote: I have a set of apps that basically just reproduces the official Twitter user experience, exactly what Twitter says we should not do. However, I add value by running on a platform that Twitter does not support and is unlikely to ever support. I believe this should be allowed and encouraged and would appreciate a statement to that effect. Furthermore, this is probably not the only exception to the don't just reproduce Twitter rule. Please consider that there may be entire areas of innovation that you have not thought of - that's why it's called innovation. -- Twitter developer documentation and resources:http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter:http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources:http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter:http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
I don't know what it's not a good business to be in means. Ryan has been posting this statement numerous times on his Twitter account as well. Is Twitter saying We believe that a Twitter client will not make a lot of money. Go ahead and try but don't say we didn't tell you so if you make no money.? Or are you saying Don't go into the Twitter client business because we may shut you down at will for any reason? The other statement I keep seeing is that we'll be held to a higher bar. What does that mean? Does it mean new Twitter clients might be rejected the way Apple rejects new apps? Could existing apps be shut down because they fall beneath this bar? Will we be getting any documentation specifically telling us what the criteria are? Will Twitter be doing this for all clients, or just clients that exist on the same platform as an official app (iPhone, Android, etc)? What about clients that don't exist as part of a business, such as open source apps? -Costa -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
there are two things: - twitter has started to specify what the core experience should be -- we have strong feelings around display and interaction; - twitter is poised to move extremely quickly. attempting to speak neutrally without any partisanship: IMO its a bad idea to create a business where you would have to bend at the whims of another organisation. the higher bar that we've been talking about is that scrutiny. Is Twitter saying We believe that a Twitter client will not make a lot of money. Go ahead and try but don't say we didn't tell you so if you make no money.? Or are you saying Don't go into the Twitter client business because we may shut you down at will for any reason? The other statement I keep seeing is that we'll be held to a higher bar. What does that mean? Does it mean new Twitter clients might be rejected the way Apple rejects new apps? Could existing apps be shut down because they fall beneath this bar? Will we be getting any documentation specifically telling us what the criteria are? Will Twitter be doing this for all clients, or just clients that exist on the same platform as an official app (iPhone, Android, etc)? What about clients that don't exist as part of a business, such as open source apps? -Costa -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Services http://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
@raffi @rsarver, I wrote up my two cents earlier, http://siculars.posterous.com/twitter-monoculture. I just don't appreciate the direction you all are going in. @raffi, I spoke with you at the CU recruiting event a few weeks back and I got to tell you that if I were asked I would tell those kids to reconsider working at twitter and possibly consider a Twitter competitor. you say building clients is ... Thinking too small I would say your policy change is thinking small and alienating your ardent supporters. -Alexander On Mar 12, 9:39 pm, Raffi Krikorian ra...@twitter.com wrote: in reading your blog post, i think you're misunderstanding what @*rsarver*wrote. the API is open -- i personally love seeing all the innovation around getting content into twitter (/1/status/update). there is a cafe in france who's oven tweets whenever its done baking. that uses the platform to get content in there. there was a NYU project that enabled your plants to tweet when they needed water. that uses the platform to get content into twitter. then there are people who match tweets to context. seeing twitter in action with a television show, or a newspaper article, or a conference, or a band -- that's how people really understand and get twitter. they see it through the lens of what's happening in the world. what @*rsarver* said, effectively, was building a business around *simply*rendering /1/statuses/home_timeline was probably-not-the-best-thing-to-do. please go still innovate. just don't bet money on simply making an API call to grabbing a user's home_timeline and rendering it. that's thinking too small, and @*rsarver* is telling you that. On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Shannon Whitley shannon.whit...@gmail.comwrote: I was hoping that Ryan was just a few weeks early for his April Fools' post. Don't build clients? It sounds like a bad joke. I wrote a letter to Ryan on my blog in response to this post: http://www.voiceoftech.com/swhitley/index.php/2011/03/a-letter-to-rya... I know you guys can't be serious about this. Stage a mutiny if you have to, but don't let this boneheaded decision stand. -- Raffi Krikorian Twitter, Application Serviceshttp://twitter.com/raffi -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 7:45 PM, @siculars sicul...@gmail.com wrote: @raffi @rsarver, I wrote up my two cents earlier, http://siculars.posterous.com/twitter-monoculture. I just don't appreciate the direction you all are going in. @raffi, I spoke with you at the CU recruiting event a few weeks back and I got to tell you that if I were asked I would tell those kids to reconsider working at twitter and possibly consider a Twitter competitor. you say building clients is ... Thinking too small I would say your policy change is thinking small and alienating your ardent supporters. To which I would add, what is Twitter to arbitrate that which is and is not too small? Has Twitter subscribed to the fallacious bigger is always better philosophy? How small is too small? Less than $25 million in startup funds? OR One creative, fun loving person and their sweat equity? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Innovation and development with the APIs are not being prevented. There have always been guidelines, and rules of the road so we all know what is and isn't allowed. If you build a client you are touching the majority of Twitter features. The APIs allow you to do this, and Twitter and your users trust you to use them in the way the terms or service allow. The high bar covers your use of these methods, and how you present information back to the user. The ToS covers this but there are always situations where the application of them isn't clear. — Let's have those discussions with your use cases applied for the benefit of everyone. The direction, and motivation here is transparency. You asked us what it looks like from the inside out. It can be uncomfortable, sure, but I believe it's better we all know how it looks on both sides. Without us saying how we see it, how can we have these discussions? @themattharris On Mar 13, 2011, at 20:21, Lil Peck lilp...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 7:45 PM, @siculars sicul...@gmail.com wrote: @raffi @rsarver, I wrote up my two cents earlier, http://siculars.posterous.com/twitter-monoculture. I just don't appreciate the direction you all are going in. @raffi, I spoke with you at the CU recruiting event a few weeks back and I got to tell you that if I were asked I would tell those kids to reconsider working at twitter and possibly consider a Twitter competitor. you say building clients is ... Thinking too small I would say your policy change is thinking small and alienating your ardent supporters. To which I would add, what is Twitter to arbitrate that which is and is not too small? Has Twitter subscribed to the fallacious bigger is always better philosophy? How small is too small? Less than $25 million in startup funds? OR One creative, fun loving person and their sweat equity? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Yes! Transparency! That is what we are really craving. That is the subtext for every developer responding to this thread. What we all want is transparency about being shut down. Why does Twitter revoke literally hundreds of API tokens / apps a week as Ryan said? Is it for something obvious, like pumping out thousand of spam tweets or abusive follows, or is it for something innocent, like not putting the right text on a tweet button? I have never seen a description of an app that was blocked, except for a few loons like Edward H. What if you told us about apps that get blocked as examples, and explain what they did wrong? You don't even have to identify them by name. Just explain exactly what type of transgressions are causing rejection. That could calm people down. Who doesn't meet the high bar and why? I know high bar has a lot of meaning to you Twitter guys, since you all use the same term (a real example of groupthink, BTW), but it means nothing to us. Tell us where this high bar is exactly, by showing examples of not reaching it. Then we can learn and improve, rather than guessing at what you mean. Nobody here would bitch and moan if they didn't really want to learn something. Please, help us by giving us examples. On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Matt Harris mhar...@twitter.com wrote: Innovation and development with the APIs are not being prevented. There have always been guidelines, and rules of the road so we all know what is and isn't allowed. If you build a client you are touching the majority of Twitter features. The APIs allow you to do this, and Twitter and your users trust you to use them in the way the terms or service allow. The high bar covers your use of these methods, and how you present information back to the user. The ToS covers this but there are always situations where the application of them isn't clear. — Let's have those discussions with your use cases applied for the benefit of everyone. The direction, and motivation here is transparency. You asked us what it looks like from the inside out. It can be uncomfortable, sure, but I believe it's better we all know how it looks on both sides. Without us saying how we see it, how can we have these discussions? @themattharris On Mar 13, 2011, at 20:21, Lil Peck lilp...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 7:45 PM, @siculars sicul...@gmail.com wrote: @raffi @rsarver, I wrote up my two cents earlier, http://siculars.posterous.com/twitter-monoculture. I just don't appreciate the direction you all are going in. @raffi, I spoke with you at the CU recruiting event a few weeks back and I got to tell you that if I were asked I would tell those kids to reconsider working at twitter and possibly consider a Twitter competitor. you say building clients is ... Thinking too small I would say your policy change is thinking small and alienating your ardent supporters. To which I would add, what is Twitter to arbitrate that which is and is not too small? Has Twitter subscribed to the fallacious bigger is always better philosophy? How small is too small? Less than $25 million in startup funds? OR One creative, fun loving person and their sweat equity? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: consistency and ecosystem opportunities
Privacy -: As I understand twitter, the data is public.[Other than private messages and protected users]. What is the concern here? I guess you are pointing to the credibility quotient of the owner of the tweet and hence his private information? Not wanting to challenge Google, but, we are developing a different algorithm. This thread sure has put a spanner on the works. But, we will work to get around it. Cheers Umashankar Das On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 2:20 AM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky zn...@borasky-research.net wrote: On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 01:32:27 +0530, Umashankar Das umashankar...@gmail.com wrote: Relevance in microblogging. Big opportunity but very difficult to define. Last i read, even google is stumped. Cheers Umashankar Das I don't think it's relevance that stumps Google so much as privacy. It's a lot of work for users to control how much they reveal and to whom, and the Holy Grail of permission marketing - timely, relevant and personal - runs square up against that. I'm cynical enough to think that the sole consumer benefit that has come from social media, including Twitter and Facebook, is the ability to talk back to granfalloons like the State Department, United Airlines and Google. Everything else about the technologies simply reduces costs to marketers, and those cost reductions are not passed on to consumers in the form of less expensive or higher-quality products and services. ;-) -- http://twitter.com/znmeb http://borasky-research.net A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. -- Paul Erdős -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
