Re: GUI as nice as character-based
just ask WordPerfect and Lotus (or DOS devotees or dumb terminal vendors or Eudora users or Netscape shareholders or vb6 developers). And, just what's wrong with these things?They're still available. And work And are used. Not a thing Bruce I wasn't suggesting there was. But there was a time when Lotus and Wordperfect where the behemoths which Excel and Word struggled to catch. I was hoping Ross would recognise the possiblity that Windows might go the same way despite current market domination. Craig -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: GUI or Event ? as nice as character-based
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/19/2004 11:59:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does the requirement to have no client-side setup (other than pointing a user to a web page in a std web browser) eliminate accuterm or not? If not, then does this permit drop-down boxes, combo boxes, calendars for date entry and the usual icons one might expect for various features? I'm talking about the U2 database, but the tools on the mv side need not be more than UOJ, for example (with support for update of stored fields and preferably also virtual fields as read-only). yes Dawn, Accuterm does support a web browser interface I've not worked closely with that implementation, I usually use the telnet terminal emulator thingie. But I did dink around with it slightly just to make sure it works. I would expect since its running in a browser that you could do any java thingies you do with any other page if you want Or any HTML or whatever. Will Well, in the demo page (http://www.asent.com/atguidemo5.htm ) it seems to use Activex in the web browser. Not just HTML. And it does not work on my Mozilla. So I don't think that it could be used on other OS than Windows/IE... -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: GUI as nice as character-based
In a message dated 4/19/2004 10:57:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, perhaps not DOS or dumb terminal vendors g wanna bet ? Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [UV] ODBC Account Flavor
All our accounts (including ODBC) are either PI or PI/Open flavour. However, as this is very close to IDEAL, it's no surprise that we don't have any (serious) problems. (If you exclude the fact that HS.UPDATE.FILEINFO seems to close the wIntegrate connection rather too often for comfort :-( Cheers, Wol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Firl Sent: 20 April 2004 01:05 To: U2-Users Distribution List (E-mail) Subject: [UV] ODBC Account Flavor I'm plowing through a project to setup a standard UV-ODBC table and column definition for our application. Our application database accounts are setup as PICK flavored accounts. For ODBC, we're going to setup a separate account for each application account with file pointers to the DATA portion of files and cleaned-up local dictionary files. I've been told by IBM that the ODBC account must be IDEAL flavor. I know that isn't totally true as I have a proof-of-concept system setup where the ODBC account is setup as PICK flavor. Like application accounts, is the flavor of the ODBC account simply a matter of preference? Or are there limitations with ODBC and PICK flavored accounts that I should be aware of? Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users This transmission is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must not act on anything disclosed in it, nor must you copy it, modify it, disseminate it in any way, or show it to anyone. Please e-mail the sender to inform us of the transmission error or telephone ECA International immediately and delete the e-mail from your information system. Telephone numbers for ECA International offices are: Sydney +61 (0)2 9911 7799, Hong Kong + 852 2121 2388, London +44 (0)20 7351 5000 and New York +1 212 582 2333. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
We need a web based Forum!
Trying to follow a thread in the digest today I had to wade through pointless re-inclusions of previous posts where people had just hit the reply-to option without doing any editing. We have been here before I know. But a forum would sort all this. It is user friendly and you are able to follow just the threads you want to. You can also easily pick up a thread and follow it's history. The main argument against the forum is that some of you out their can not access the web. How can anyone in a development role do their job properly nowadays without being able to access the web. I am sure that if all we had was a forum on the web, admin departments would be told that X needs web access and they would get it. James Hogan Sungard -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: We need a web based Forum!
I think forums may be available (again) soon on the u2ug site - I'm not sure. But one of the reasons behind the muddle at u2ug was that a lot of people DON'T like forums - they find them a pig to use even if they have access. I don't take the digest, for precisely the reason you've discovered. I find google a pain because it makes news look like a forum - but I use it if I have to. I use news or email from choice. So, if and when the fora reappear, don't expect to find me (or a lot of the other experts) there. TNSTAASB (tnstaa silver bullet) :-) Cheers, Wol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hogan, James Sent: 20 April 2004 10:06 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: We need a web based Forum! Trying to follow a thread in the digest today I had to wade through pointless re-inclusions of previous posts where people had just hit the reply-to option without doing any editing. We have been here before I know. But a forum would sort all this. It is user friendly and you are able to follow just the threads you want to. You can also easily pick up a thread and follow it's history. The main argument against the forum is that some of you out their can not access the web. How can anyone in a development role do their job properly nowadays without being able to access the web. I am sure that if all we had was a forum on the web, admin departments would be told that X needs web access and they would get it. James Hogan Sungard -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users This transmission is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must not act on anything disclosed in it, nor must you copy it, modify it, disseminate it in any way, or show it to anyone. Please e-mail the sender to inform us of the transmission error or telephone ECA International immediately and delete the e-mail from your information system. Telephone numbers for ECA International offices are: Sydney +61 (0)2 9911 7799, Hong Kong + 852 2121 2388, London +44 (0)20 7351 5000 and New York +1 212 582 2333. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
And if they show any sign of regaining their old market share on Windows, expect the and work to cease to be true ... Actually - isn't that one of the aims of Longhorn - to totally break all legacy doze apps? Cheers, Wol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Nichol Sent: 20 April 2004 06:56 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based At 15:12 20/04/04, you wrote: just ask WordPerfect and Lotus (or DOS devotees or dumb terminal vendors or Eudora users or Netscape shareholders or vb6 developers). And, just what's wrong with these things?They're still available. And work And are used. This transmission is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must not act on anything disclosed in it, nor must you copy it, modify it, disseminate it in any way, or show it to anyone. Please e-mail the sender to inform us of the transmission error or telephone ECA International immediately and delete the e-mail from your information system. Telephone numbers for ECA International offices are: Sydney +61 (0)2 9911 7799, Hong Kong + 852 2121 2388, London +44 (0)20 7351 5000 and New York +1 212 582 2333. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Reply Performance Degraded running u10.0.0 in Aix 5.2 ML 2
Hi all, There have 180 user license, some of them are using vb application (about 15 uvcs), 20 uv-net connection, about 60 telnet connection and 20 of fixed tty dump terminal users. Some of the user are using SAME user id to login to universe is that will cost the issue ? I have double up the swap spaces from 4gb to 8gb. but i still having the performance degraded issue. below is the usages of swap spaces before and after increment. The user claim that the system starting slow after 48 hours, so the mis guys have to restart universe every 48 hours. [ServerX1]:/lsps -a Page Space Physical Volume Volume GroupSize %Used Active Auto Type hd6 hdisk0rootvg4096MB 1 yes yeslv [ServerX1]:/lsps -a Page Space Physical Volume Volume GroupSize %Used Active Auto Type paging00hdisk0rootvg4096MB 1 yes yeslv hd6 hdisk0rootvg4096MB 1 yes yeslv The above output showing that the system only using 1% of the swap spaces even i have increase the size to 8gb. Is that any uvconfig parameter that i need to configure to tell universe that i have 8gb of swap spaces. tty: tin tout avg-cpu: % user% sys % idle% iowait 53.75451.7 24.9 75.10.0 0.0 Disks:% tm_act Kbps tpsKb_read Kb_wrtn hdisk1 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 hdisk0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 hdisk3 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 hdisk2 27.9 116.4 35.8 4 113 hdisk5 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 hdisk4 28.9 112.4 34.8 0 113 cd0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 Above is the output of iostat. hdisk2 hdisk4 are configured as RAID5 with 64k of strips and mirrored each other. Please advise, thank you --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 4/15/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
UK Job
There is a Pick A/P Job going at AVRO who are based in South East London (Bromley) I gather its being filled through the Prospectus agency if any one in interested. Details below: ROLE: Analyst Programmer LOCATION: SE (London / Kent) DESCRIPTION: A support and development role for this end user who have heavily bespoked packaged software to suit their particular needs. You must have excellent UNIVERSE / Databasic programming experience along with some analysis. If you have a working knowledge of Unix and C then that would be advantageous although not essential. Interface messaging / EDI and X.25 would also be useful. You will be working in a small team. JOB PURPOSE: - To support and develop enhancements to the current 'Travellog' reservation system to according to business needs. - To take responsibility for any assigned projects/developments from conception to implementation including the necessary support. - To have a flexible approach and a desire to deliver solutions successfully in a timely manner. MAIN RESPONSIBLITIES: - Support and develop applications relating to:· Current reservation systems· Flight Management System· Finance · Extracts for Management information systems - Take an active role in identifying and resolving potential system problems - Follow departmental standards on code and environment configuration management, project lifecycle, and release procedures. - Liase directly with appropriate business representatives in order to determine their specific requirements. - Create functional and/or technical specifications for the business to sign off where applicable and co-ordinate project meetings where appropriate - Take an active role in many or all parts of the project life cycle (gathering requirements, development, testing, deployment, support) - To provide regular project progress reports, written or verbal when requested. - To provide written or verbal estimates on proposed developments or projects when requested.Ø Ensure delivery of agreed tasks are to realistic and agreed time scales - To provide a written or verbal weekly progress updates. - Develop any test and diagnostic tools where applicable - Co-ordinate the development of test environments for specific projects as required. SKILLS, EXPERIENCE QUALIFICATIONS: - In depth knowledge of the Data Basic programming language - Working Knowledge of Universe/Pick dynamic file system. - Working Knowledge of the UNIX operating system - Working knowledge of 'C' programming and interface messaging/EDI and x.25 is required within the team and would be advantageous - Be able to use MS Office applications (Word, Excel, Outlook, Powerpoint) - Analytical skills - Knowledge of the Travel Industry and Tour operating processes - Ability to work in small team, and communicate effectively with department colleagues __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
To go back to Dawn's original post - Dawn, I've been writing GUI applications for UniVerse for about 15 years now. Some have worked, some have - well - been learning experiences. You shouldn't really compare GUI and character based. Why? Because then you inevitably start to think of the GUI in character based terms - the arrangement of controls on a form, or the addition of some buttons. That's my main beef with 'intelligent' terminals - they obscure the real picture. GUI is not about what you put on the screen. It's about the flow of information, and how that flow best suits the application in question. Data entry is part of that flow, but only part: character based is good for some data entry and for administration, but a good application is also about navigation, culture and the ease of finding information again. Here are two very different examples: I did a freight forwarding package for a company that previously was entirely paper based. They took a - let's say flexible - approach to rules, validations, pricing, descriptions etc - and wanted to keep that. Providing a traditional system, with a nailed down design and entry screens just wouldn't work for them. In fact I tried that first as a prototype, and it didn't. Not in their culture. So I designed a system that worked the same way as their forms. Every page matched the standard forms they used, except that information automatically infilled, was sent to their billing systems, collated to their work flow for follow ups and diarising etc ... But all invisibly. What they 'saw' were the forms they had used throughout. Even the validation was fairly soft, and consisted mainly of highlighting things that were suspect. Annoying popups were kept to an absolute minimum, text and codes expanded directly from typing, and generally the whole thing designed to look and feel as unobtrusive as possible: nothing to interrupt their work flow. I couldn't have done that with a character based system because it couldn't have represented the compexity of some of the forms (try doing an airway bill or customs declaration form and you'll see what I mean). As a more traditional example, I have a project management system that I both designed and use. This is based on drill down principles, allowing me to track projects, modules, scheduled and tasks. Here the advantage of a GUI is persistence and workflow: because a GUI allows me to have multiple windows open modelessly, I can track down from the projects or work lists into the individual tasks whilst keeping the lists (heirarchically arranged) still visible, so I don't have to keep closing down windows or reselecting: generally much more efficient. I can also display more, since most of the time I am interested in viewing information rather than changing it - and at the viewing stage I can use smaller fonts to display things that when amended need larger screen estate. The diary is a case in point: I can use colours and smaller fonts to show different entries in a way that a green screen application wouldn't accommodate. And naturally I keep a document path, so any documents/project plans/applications or other materials connected with a task can be opened directly on my desktop. I have seen good GUIs: ones that improve process and work flow and make life genuinely easier. I have seen bad GUIs that interrupt work flow, slow people down (bl**dy mice and message boxes). Good GUI works. Bad GUI is bad bad bad. But too often GUI is blamed for the lack of vision or competence of those implementing it. Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: 20 April 2004 02:03 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Citrix and I don't get along -- too many bad memories trying to set up ODBC so that client machines ... anyway, I know that there are reasons that shops use it, just as there are reasons I hope not to have to touch the product again ;-) And I didn't intend for Java to be the only possible solution to fit the rules -- I just tried to be sure to rule out the V-word ;-) [Just a little joke there -- I actually think that Visage is likely an excellent choice for Microsoft-centric sites and I'm a Ross-fan myself, remember] Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:21 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn, Citrix Server would break DLG (Dawn's Law of GUI) rule 4 anyway, as you would need to pre-install Citrix client software on most platforms. BTW Dawn, do you have a mathematic proof of DLG ? Just wondering, 'cause just like the Great Date Debate, many may be happy to 'bend' these rules because they don't apply to the environment they use ? For example,
Re: GUI as nice as character-based
Dawn and all, Another aspect of GUI, which we sure have to consider, is data communication lines. Our operation is spread over 1000 kilometres, and sending GUI screens back and forth will certainly clog our lines. Except when you make use of local intelligence. The volume of data sent to paint a GUI screen must certainly be a factor of 50 more than with CUI. (?) Schalk On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:31 +0100, Brian Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To go back to Dawn's original post - Dawn, I've been writing GUI applications for UniVerse for about 15 years now. Some have worked, some have - well - been learning experiences. You shouldn't really compare GUI and character based. Why? Because then you inevitably start to think of the GUI in character based terms - the arrangement of controls on a form, or the addition of some buttons. That's my main beef with 'intelligent' terminals - they obscure the real picture. GUI is not about what you put on the screen. It's about the flow of information, and how that flow best suits the application in question. Data entry is part of that flow, but only part: character based is good for some data entry and for administration, but a good application is also about navigation, culture and the ease of finding information again. Here are two very different examples: I did a freight forwarding package for a company that previously was entirely paper based. They took a - let's say flexible - approach to rules, validations, pricing, descriptions etc - and wanted to keep that. Providing a traditional system, with a nailed down design and entry screens just wouldn't work for them. In fact I tried that first as a prototype, and it didn't. Not in their culture. So I designed a system that worked the same way as their forms. Every page matched the standard forms they used, except that information automatically infilled, was sent to their billing systems, collated to their work flow for follow ups and diarising etc ... But all invisibly. What they 'saw' were the forms they had used throughout. Even the validation was fairly soft, and consisted mainly of highlighting things that were suspect. Annoying popups were kept to an absolute minimum, text and codes expanded directly from typing, and generally the whole thing designed to look and feel as unobtrusive as possible: nothing to interrupt their work flow. I couldn't have done that with a character based system because it couldn't have represented the compexity of some of the forms (try doing an airway bill or customs declaration form and you'll see what I mean). As a more traditional example, I have a project management system that I both designed and use. This is based on drill down principles, allowing me to track projects, modules, scheduled and tasks. Here the advantage of a GUI is persistence and workflow: because a GUI allows me to have multiple windows open modelessly, I can track down from the projects or work lists into the individual tasks whilst keeping the lists (heirarchically arranged) still visible, so I don't have to keep closing down windows or reselecting: generally much more efficient. I can also display more, since most of the time I am interested in viewing information rather than changing it - and at the viewing stage I can use smaller fonts to display things that when amended need larger screen estate. The diary is a case in point: I can use colours and smaller fonts to show different entries in a way that a green screen application wouldn't accommodate. And naturally I keep a document path, so any documents/project plans/applications or other materials connected with a task can be opened directly on my desktop. I have seen good GUIs: ones that improve process and work flow and make life genuinely easier. I have seen bad GUIs that interrupt work flow, slow people down (bl**dy mice and message boxes). Good GUI works. Bad GUI is bad bad bad. But too often GUI is blamed for the lack of vision or competence of those implementing it. Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: 20 April 2004 02:03 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Citrix and I don't get along -- too many bad memories trying to set up ODBC so that client machines ... anyway, I know that there are reasons that shops use it, just as there are reasons I hope not to have to touch the product again ;-) And I didn't intend for Java to be the only possible solution to fit the rules -- I just tried to be sure to rule out the V-word ;-) [Just a little joke there -- I actually think that Visage is likely an excellent choice for Microsoft-centric sites and I'm a Ross-fan myself, remember] Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent:
RE: We need a web based Forum!
snip The main argument against the forum is that some of you out their can not access the web. How can anyone in a development role do their job properly nowadays without being able to access the web. I am sure that if all we had was a forum on the web, admin departments would be told that X needs web access and they would get it. snip How about company/department policy? And why can't I do my job properly without having access to the web? This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee only. If you have received this message in error, you must not copy, distribute or disclose the contents; please notify the sender immediately and delete the message. This message is attributed to the sender and may not necessarily reflect the view of Travis Perkins plc or its subsidiaries (Travis Perkins). Agreements binding Travis Perkins may not be concluded by means of e-mail communication. E-mail transmissions are not secure and Travis Perkins accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. Whilst steps have been taken to ensure that this message is virus free, Travis Perkins accepts no liability for infection and recommends that you scan this e-mail and any attachments. Part of Travis Perkins plc. Registered Office: Lodge Way House, Lodge Way, Harlestone Road, Northampton, NN5 7UG. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Any objection to me chasing that small 95% portion of the market in the meantime ? I figure I've been in the winning 5% end of the niche for too long :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Bennett Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 4:14 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based just ask WordPerfect and Lotus (or DOS devotees or dumb terminal vendors or Eudora users or Netscape shareholders or vb6 developers). And, just what's wrong with these things?They're still available. And work And are used. Not a thing Bruce I wasn't suggesting there was. But there was a time when Lotus and Wordperfect where the behemoths which Excel and Word struggled to catch. I was hoping Ross would recognise the possiblity that Windows might go the same way despite current market domination. Craig -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
I was hoping Ross would recognise the possiblity that Windows might go the same way despite current market domination. So write your clients in Delphi - Delphi for Windows native Delphi for .Net Delphi (Kylix) for Linux and D2J - produces Java bytecode from Delphi. Or if you want browser based cross platform - is anyone on the list using Macromedia flash to talk to U2 through web services? I haven't had the chance to experiment with that yet :-( but AFAIK flash is available as a plug in on Windows, Linux and Mac and it should be possible to do some pretty good interactive stuff using that combination ... Brian This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: GUI as nice as character-based
Hi Craig,
At 03:12 PM 20/04/2004, Craig Bennett wrote:
Perhaps you need to look at XAML/Avalon, which will be part of Windows
Longhorn by the time it BYTES, the various opensource CLT projects
should be up away, and you may have your path.
Sorry for the ignorance, but what is CLT?
Do you mean CLR('R' is next to 'T' on my keyboard) as in Mono and dotGnu?
Nevertheless, the thrust of you argument (and presumable the intended point
of your straw poll) is not necessarily correct -- just because windows has
vast market domination now, it does not follow that this will remain the
case: just ask WordPerfect and Lotus (or DOS devotees or dumb terminal
vendors or Eudora users or Netscape shareholders or vb6 developers).
We recently installed FreeDOS and a terminal emulator to replace old
Windows machines which we had lost the license documentation for after a
visit from Microsoft Licensing...if you think MS are 's and lawyers are
's wait till you meet these guys.
- Robert
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RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Strangely enough, one of the early iterations of our product was implemented in Delphi even today that is what the middleware layer is written in. Have had a play with Macromedia to - you CAN do some nifty stuff with the latest MX stuff, BUT I believe there are a few (non-trivial) obstacles that would need to be overcome - but the scripting IS powerful ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 9:22 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based I was hoping Ross would recognise the possiblity that Windows might go the same way despite current market domination. So write your clients in Delphi - Delphi for Windows native Delphi for .Net Delphi (Kylix) for Linux and D2J - produces Java bytecode from Delphi. Or if you want browser based cross platform - is anyone on the list using Macromedia flash to talk to U2 through web services? I haven't had the chance to experiment with that yet :-( but AFAIK flash is available as a plug in on Windows, Linux and Mac and it should be possible to do some pretty good interactive stuff using that combination ... Brian This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
callHTTP - result
A week or so ago I posted a question concerning a problem encountered when using callHTTP. It appeared not to be sending CRLF's through to the targeted URL. Through some diligent work by IBM and working with the vendor on the other end it was determined that callHTTP did in fact send the CRLF's to them. The vendor, however, was on Unix and it only saw them as char 10's. Thus, when we received the echo back file from them it appeared there was a problem. Thanks to IBM for the help and to everyone else who responded with helpful thoughts and ideas. We are back on track and moving forward. Mike Dallaire Mortgage Builder Software Inc. (248) 208-3223 ext. 103 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.mortgagebuilder.com -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
(scary how much php has moved up lately!) Actually I find it reassuring to know that PHP is still more popular than C# Brian This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
Ross, We do have Mac's here, around 30%. We have some Linux desktops as well. We even have at least one Mac with Linux loaded. Currently our Mac's run Comet to telnet into our system. The GUI our vendor expects us to use is Wintegrate based. It is absolutely terrible for heads down data entry and it does not work on Mac's. The interface that H R Block has uses standard heads down keystrokes, handles type-ahead well, while enjoying the benefits of a GUI. The contrast to our GUI is, well... I'm jealous. At 10:35 PM 4/19/2004, you wrote: Anyone up for a little straw poll ? A recurrent theme that I see played out in this related forums is the well, does it run on MAC or Linux on the Desktop question. Often, when asked, the people that raised the issue don't have either platform in their installation - it is merely a standard question that they feel compelled to ask ?!? Maybe it is just me - I don't live in the big smoke - but (to date) I simply haven't seen any significant demand for workstation support (GUI or CUI) outside of windows. SO, I think to myself, I wonder what the REAL numbers are - I mean theory is one thing, but how do the numbers stack up in the real world? How many people are there that actually do use, or WANT to use (I'm talking management want here, not the gee, if I had my way kind of thing) non-windows platforms on the desktop ?. I'm happy to kick it off. Of the (application) systems that we have installed over the years, discounting green screens, we have deployed to probably around 1,500 workstation devices -- all Windows (even back as far as 3.11) I've had the Mac option raised twice - I remember each one clearly ! Once at a printers (who are 'big' MAC users traditionally) for 3 devices, and once at a distribution company where the owner had a MAC at home he wanted to use remotely that's it - potential market 4 out of around 1,500. Any other takers ? I need to point out that I'm not LOOKING for exceptions, merely the state of the desktop, so if you only have Wintel desktops, please step up be counted - and if there is a vast ocean of hidden MAC and Linux desktops out there, please identify yourself Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development *---* Jon Wells Database Administrator Beloit College Information Services Resources Beloit, Wisconsin 608-363-2290[EMAIL PROTECTED] 608-363-2100(fax) *---* AIX 5.1.3 IBM RS6000 F50 UniData 5.1.35 *---* -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
Jon, The .edu may say it all, as this is a market we dont operate in, and I understand that many on this list do. I wonder if the same would be true in the .mil or even .gov space ? I think Brian gave a reasonable insight into the different mindset required for GUI. I imagine that your Vendor may have taken a 'minimalist' approach to their GUI Migration(?), I'm suspicious of any technique/product that tries to drive CUI GUI at the same time UNLESS the GUI implementation can be independently 'tweaked' optimised - which means that you really end up with 2 development streams. Perhaps it is just that we couldn't master this :-), but back when insert V word was a FAT TE, OUR GUI results were so obviously NOT windows that the product never made it out the door ! You said you had 30% Macs - can you tell me how many devices this is, and are other 70% Wintel ? Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Wells Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 10:47 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) Ross, We do have Mac's here, around 30%. We have some Linux desktops as well. We even have at least one Mac with Linux loaded. Currently our Mac's run Comet to telnet into our system. The GUI our vendor expects us to use is Wintegrate based. It is absolutely terrible for heads down data entry and it does not work on Mac's. The interface that H R Block has uses standard heads down keystrokes, handles type-ahead well, while enjoying the benefits of a GUI. The contrast to our GUI is, well... I'm jealous. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Users can't login to UV after upgrade from NT4 to 2003 SBS
Thanks for the feedback everyone. What we've tried so far is deleting and recreating user accounts - that didn't work. Just by chance, we recreated a user account that used to exist at one time and had admin rights - but we didn't place it in the administrators group this time - just Domain users and UVUsers (the group we setup with rights to logon locally) and low and behold we can login to Universe with that account. So, the only pattern we can see is that we can only login to Universe with any user account in the administrators group that happened to exist before the machine was upgraded to Windows 2003 SBS. No amount of tinkering around with any other user accounts or creating new accounts gets allows us to establish a telnet connection. Very bizarre. A little history - the server was running Win NT4, then Win2k Server was installed as an upgrade, followed by Win 2003 SBS. We checked all the file permissions, etc on all Universe folders /bin, etc and all the Universe database paths and they where and always have been wide open - full permissions to 'everyone'. joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Walter Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Users can't login to UV after upgrade from NT4 to 2003 SBS Having a strange problem at a client site. There sysadmins upgraded the server running Universe from NT4 to Windows 2003 Small Business Server. Everything seemed OK, until regular domain users tried to login to universe. It seems to accept username/password but then telnet session terminates immediately afterward. Only two users can log in. Both of these users where members of the administrators group. All other users where members of Domain Users and a special group called UVUsers which we setup and granted the right to 'logon locally'. We checked to ensure the group UVUsers had right to logon locally - it did. We then removed and recreated the group UVUsers and gave it rights to logon locally - that still didn't work. Now here is the really bizarre thing. EVEN if we add any of the regular users to the administrators group - THEY STILL CAN'T LOGIN TO UNIVERSE. Only those two users that happened to be members of the administrators group when the server was upgraded are able to login. I'm stumped. Any ideas greatly appreciated. Thanks, joe Joe Walter Fax/Voice mail: 1.435.514.5132 http://jaw1.home.mindspring.com Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
It's not a performance issue, so much as the UI itself. I dont believe that you can automatically 'translate' from 24 x 80 to GUI and end up with a reasonable result of necessity it may look 'screen scraped', UNLESS the GUI UI is tweaked Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debster Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 11:39 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) dunno about thatThere are many that can flip based on the users profile and as long as the underlying code is written to accomodate it I have never seen a problem in performance --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
[snip] I wonder what the REAL numbers are - I mean theory is one thing, but how do the numbers stack up in the real world? How many people are there that actually do use, or WANT to use (I'm talking management want here, not the gee, if I had my way kind of thing) non-windows platforms on the desktop ?. [snip] At this current job we are virtually a total MS shop on the desktop. That is to say that we have around 3300 Windows machines and 4 (count 'em 4) Macs. The Macs are used by the graphic art department. The last company I worked for (3 years ago) was an aluminum smelter and was total MS. However my previous employer (7 years ago) which was based in Portland, Oregon had 90% Macs and 10% MS Windows. The accounting department had the Windows machines. Everyone else (about 200 or so) had Macs. In fact we did all of our UD/SB+ development on Macs. My understanding is that they still have that setup at the headquarters but UD/SB+ was replaced with a system utilizing Oracle. Gordon J. Glorfield Sr. Applications Developer MAMSI (A UnitedHealth Company) 301-360-8839 This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: GUI as nice as character-based
Isn't that what thin clients are for? To hold the app on the client end and only convey data. - Original Message - From: Schalk van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U2 Users Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn and all, Another aspect of GUI, which we sure have to consider, is data communication lines. Our operation is spread over 1000 kilometres, and sending GUI screens back and forth will certainly clog our lines. Except when you make use of local intelligence. The volume of data sent to paint a GUI screen must certainly be a factor of 50 more than with CUI. (?) Schalk On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:31 +0100, Brian Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To go back to Dawn's original post - Dawn, I've been writing GUI applications for UniVerse for about 15 years now. Some have worked, some have - well - been learning experiences. You shouldn't really compare GUI and character based. Why? Because then you inevitably start to think of the GUI in character based terms - the arrangement of controls on a form, or the addition of some buttons. That's my main beef with 'intelligent' terminals - they obscure the real picture. GUI is not about what you put on the screen. It's about the flow of information, and how that flow best suits the application in question. Data entry is part of that flow, but only part: character based is good for some data entry and for administration, but a good application is also about navigation, culture and the ease of finding information again. Here are two very different examples: I did a freight forwarding package for a company that previously was entirely paper based. They took a - let's say flexible - approach to rules, validations, pricing, descriptions etc - and wanted to keep that. Providing a traditional system, with a nailed down design and entry screens just wouldn't work for them. In fact I tried that first as a prototype, and it didn't. Not in their culture. So I designed a system that worked the same way as their forms. Every page matched the standard forms they used, except that information automatically infilled, was sent to their billing systems, collated to their work flow for follow ups and diarising etc ... But all invisibly. What they 'saw' were the forms they had used throughout. Even the validation was fairly soft, and consisted mainly of highlighting things that were suspect. Annoying popups were kept to an absolute minimum, text and codes expanded directly from typing, and generally the whole thing designed to look and feel as unobtrusive as possible: nothing to interrupt their work flow. I couldn't have done that with a character based system because it couldn't have represented the compexity of some of the forms (try doing an airway bill or customs declaration form and you'll see what I mean). As a more traditional example, I have a project management system that I both designed and use. This is based on drill down principles, allowing me to track projects, modules, scheduled and tasks. Here the advantage of a GUI is persistence and workflow: because a GUI allows me to have multiple windows open modelessly, I can track down from the projects or work lists into the individual tasks whilst keeping the lists (heirarchically arranged) still visible, so I don't have to keep closing down windows or reselecting: generally much more efficient. I can also display more, since most of the time I am interested in viewing information rather than changing it - and at the viewing stage I can use smaller fonts to display things that when amended need larger screen estate. The diary is a case in point: I can use colours and smaller fonts to show different entries in a way that a green screen application wouldn't accommodate. And naturally I keep a document path, so any documents/project plans/applications or other materials connected with a task can be opened directly on my desktop. I have seen good GUIs: ones that improve process and work flow and make life genuinely easier. I have seen bad GUIs that interrupt work flow, slow people down (bl**dy mice and message boxes). Good GUI works. Bad GUI is bad bad bad. But too often GUI is blamed for the lack of vision or competence of those implementing it. Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: 20 April 2004 02:03 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Citrix and I don't get along -- too many bad memories trying to set up ODBC so that client machines ... anyway, I know that there are reasons that shops use it, just as there are reasons I hope not to have to touch the product again ;-) And I didn't intend for
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
No, 'Thin client' by most definitions I've seen would imply 'no need to install any additional software' examples of 2 'thin' client implementations would be Citrix, and a browser based application. A fat client requires 'lots of stuff' - exe's, jar's etc - to be shipped to the client Contrast this to Citrix (where the only thing transmitted to the client is screen update images, as the code actually executes on the Citrix box) or Browser (a relatively small page is sent) Also see maybe http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/t/thin_client.html Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 12:18 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Isn't that what thin clients are for? To hold the app on the client end and only convey data. - Original Message - From: Schalk van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U2 Users Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn and all, Another aspect of GUI, which we sure have to consider, is data communication lines. Our operation is spread over 1000 kilometres, and sending GUI screens back and forth will certainly clog our lines. Except when you make use of local intelligence. The volume of data sent to paint a GUI screen must certainly be a factor of 50 more than with CUI. (?) Schalk On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:31 +0100, Brian Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To go back to Dawn's original post - Dawn, I've been writing GUI applications for UniVerse for about 15 years now. Some have worked, some have - well - been learning experiences. You shouldn't really compare GUI and character based. Why? Because then you inevitably start to think of the GUI in character based terms - the arrangement of controls on a form, or the addition of some buttons. That's my main beef with 'intelligent' terminals - they obscure the real picture. GUI is not about what you put on the screen. It's about the flow of information, and how that flow best suits the application in question. Data entry is part of that flow, but only part: character based is good for some data entry and for administration, but a good application is also about navigation, culture and the ease of finding information again. Here are two very different examples: I did a freight forwarding package for a company that previously was entirely paper based. They took a - let's say flexible - approach to rules, validations, pricing, descriptions etc - and wanted to keep that. Providing a traditional system, with a nailed down design and entry screens just wouldn't work for them. In fact I tried that first as a prototype, and it didn't. Not in their culture. So I designed a system that worked the same way as their forms. Every page matched the standard forms they used, except that information automatically infilled, was sent to their billing systems, collated to their work flow for follow ups and diarising etc ... But all invisibly. What they 'saw' were the forms they had used throughout. Even the validation was fairly soft, and consisted mainly of highlighting things that were suspect. Annoying popups were kept to an absolute minimum, text and codes expanded directly from typing, and generally the whole thing designed to look and feel as unobtrusive as possible: nothing to interrupt their work flow. I couldn't have done that with a character based system because it couldn't have represented the compexity of some of the forms (try doing an airway bill or customs declaration form and you'll see what I mean). As a more traditional example, I have a project management system that I both designed and use. This is based on drill down principles, allowing me to track projects, modules, scheduled and tasks. Here the advantage of a GUI is persistence and workflow: because a GUI allows me to have multiple windows open modelessly, I can track down from the projects or work lists into the individual tasks whilst keeping the lists (heirarchically arranged) still visible, so I don't have to keep closing down windows or reselecting: generally much more efficient. I can also display more, since most of the time I am interested in viewing information rather than changing it - and at the viewing stage I can use smaller fonts to display things that when amended need larger screen estate. The diary is a case in point: I can use colours and smaller fonts to show different entries in a way that a green screen application wouldn't accommodate. And naturally I keep a document path, so any documents/project plans/applications or other materials connected with a task can be opened directly on my desktop. I have seen good GUIs:
RE: We need a web based Forum!
Yahoo groups works this way. You can either post via the web, or from Email, and receive either web only or also via email. Of course, if the forum being used is canned, and doesn't have those options, it might be a bit more difficult to do what we want. George -Original Message- From: Stevenson, Charles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 10:57 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: We need a web based Forum! The secret has GOT to be one (1) single database managing the posted messages and threads, with possibly different user interfaces as frontends. DO NOT build 2 applications on the backend. cds -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Youngman Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:31 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: We need a web based Forum! I think forums may be available (again) soon on the u2ug site - I'm not sure. But one of the reasons behind the muddle at u2ug was that a lot of people DON'T like forums - they find them a pig to use even if they have access. I don't take the digest, for precisely the reason you've discovered. I find google a pain because it makes news look like a forum - but I use it if I have to. I use news or email from choice. So, if and when the fora reappear, don't expect to find me (or a lot of the other experts) there. TNSTAASB (tnstaa silver bullet) :-) Cheers, Wol -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hogan, James Sent: 20 April 2004 10:06 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: We need a web based Forum! Trying to follow a thread in the digest today I had to wade through pointless re-inclusions of previous posts where people had just hit the reply-to option without doing any editing. We have been here before I know. But a forum would sort all this. It is user friendly and you are able to follow just the threads you want to. You can also easily pick up a thread and follow it's history. The main argument against the forum is that some of you out their can not access the web. How can anyone in a development role do their job properly nowadays without being able to access the web. I am sure that if all we had was a forum on the web, admin departments would be told that X needs web access and they would get it. James Hogan Sungard -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ** ** This transmission is intended for the named recipient only. It may contain private and confidential information. If this has come to you in error you must not act on anything disclosed in it, nor must you copy it, modify it, disseminate it in any way, or show it to anyone. Please e-mail the sender to inform us of the transmission error or telephone ECA International immediately and delete the e-mail from your information system. Telephone numbers for ECA International offices are: Sydney +61 (0)2 9911 7799, Hong Kong + 852 2121 2388, London +44 (0)20 7351 5000 and New York +1 212 582 2333. ** ** -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2)
Robert -- I requested pet store data models from this group at one point and I have a good draft of a suggested pet store data model for pick. If/when you could use it for maverick, just ask and I'll figure out where I filed it. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Colquhoun Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:57 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2) Hi John, At 11:33 PM 19/04/2004, Jon Wells wrote: Sounds a bit like the Coyote Web Server [ http://coyote.easyco.com/ ] This functionality would be a great thing to add to the Maverick project. You can do this today via the basic compiler which can inherit(in a java/OO sense) functionality into your basic programs. You would need some glue code, perhaps around 100-200 lines and then each basic program would become a java servlet. ie With a suitable app server ie tomcat, websphere, weblogic, jrun, orion etc your application could connect to U2 as a data source or use one of the other database drivers much like java applications switch dbs by substituting the JDBC driver. I have been meaning to get Pet Store or similar going in maverick to demonstrate how this works. This doesnt solve what Mark wants though which i think is to build an app server completely inside a mv engine so that websphere/tomcat is not needed. - Robert -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
I'll accept that restatement, Will. My intent was not that there was no footprint on the client, but that the user could go to a URL and would be able to launch what they need to from there. So, shockwave is fine, Java Web Start is fine and anything else that could be installed by users going to this web page and clicking here and that is maintained something like Adobe pdf readers would be fine. Thanks for clarifying. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based In a message dated 4/19/2004 6:36:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This does violate your rule about zero install, but I can't think of a real zero install technology ... once you consider web browser dependencies, java dependencies, flash player dependencies, citrix dependencies, terminal emulation dependencies etc there is always *something* you need to have or fiddle with on the client (otherwise we'd all be shipping PCs with no O/S installed). Craig You can't really have a zero client footprint. I'd rephrase Dawn's statement to say that perhaps you are using client software that the average person would ALREADY have installed such as a browser, a jpg viewer, a mp3 player, etc. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Excellent! I just took at look at wxwidgets and will look into it further. I also like your app browser concept (but remembered not to include the entire original post in my response this time -- sorry I forget that on occasion) and I actually use something that could grow into that -- a Jini services browser (see www.jini.org or www.incax.com) --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Bennett Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 8:32 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn, how blue sky are we talking? I am hugely impressed with wxWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org) a C++ GUI framework for developing applications on Windows, X, Mac, OS/2. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
I disagree with a couple of points. For one, there is no reason that a character based app can not be written to validate data inputs just as efficiently as a GUI. Users can be forced to choose from a list of pre authorized values by a number of means. An assigned function key which brings up a box of options which can be highlighted and selected for example. Also, IMHO the primary usefulness of a GUI (lets face it folks, we're talking about the Microsoft Windows GUI) is the fact that so many people already know how to use it. Heck, even my technophobic 75 year old mother knows that Files is on the left side of the menu bar and Help is on the right. Employers can bring people in to an organization and be reasonably sure that they will be able to do some useful work on a computer system quickly because the look and feel of their GUI is a soft, cuddly, familiar face to just about everyone. Its not more efficient. It requires more resources. It increases the overall complexity of the application and therefore increases the probability of failures. Unfortunately, the bottom line is that users like it. Since we write software for users we need to use the GUI. -Original Message- From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:19 AM Excellent point -- that is also my main issue with terminal emulations that look pretty. A GUI interface does more than look pretty -- it helps prohibit any invalid data from being entered. There are much fewer data entry fields in favor of point and click on drop downs and such. Of course, the point and click slows folks down. Software developers of packaged software have the issue of needing to make all of the data entry approaches look way cool and yet ensure that in those cases where there is still a need for fast data entry, the users will not reject the software. The primary need for GUI's that are clicky-clicky is handled well enough with a variety of tools and such applications can often function just fine within a web browser (using jsp or asp for example). It is always harder to add in new stuff than the remove the old and I'd like to see something that will let us remove any need for character-based, terminal emulation software from our production environments, without losing their great features that have kept us using them these many years. Cheers. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
And will this next version of .NET run fine on Linux and Mac OS? I don't keep current enough with MS and I know they keep suggesting they will run on Linux and MacOS, but I'm not familiar with any projects that will actually accomplish that. While their .NET efforts do look like they have a lot of things going right for them, I still don't like locking into Microsoft for everything. If I knew I could deploy the results of .NET development efforts on other platforms, I'd be much more interested. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Canale, Jr. Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based So, shockwave is fine, Java Web Start is fine and anything else that could be installed by users going to this web page and clicking here and that is maintained something like Adobe pdf readers would be fine. In case you haven't seen the next version of .NET yet, Visual Studio 2005 has a Click Once feature that is exactly this. The zero touch deployment or xcopy stuff that started with the first release of .NET was like the first version of Windows, the start of an idea that wasn't really too far along. The next version improves quite a bit on this beginning. Actually, you have options to start from a web 'click', install a link to the desktop/start menu, etc.. It automatically checks/downloads a newer version (or runs locally if no connection to the server). I'm sure there are still going to be some issues (dealing with unmanaged code comes to mind) but, it should work very well with UniObjects.NET (when it gets here). Regards, Jim -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Net will run on Linux the day that a very large Linux shop tells Micro$oft they need that functionality to convert over to windoze That said, I've been using c# and .Net for a couple of years now and I find it to be pretty damn good. If you have a captive audience that just happens to run windoze and already has the .Net runtime installed, then it really is a simple matter of doing an xcopy of your app down to the workstation. Don Kibbey Financial Systems Manager Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett Dunner LLP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/20/04 01:55PM And will this next version of .NET run fine on Linux and Mac OS? I don't keep current enough with MS and I know they keep suggesting they will run on Linux and MacOS, but I'm not familiar with any projects that will actually accomplish that. While their .NET efforts do look like they have a lot of things going right for them, I still don't like locking into Microsoft for everything. If I knew I could deploy the results of .NET development efforts on other platforms, I'd be much more interested. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Canale, Jr. Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:31 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based So, shockwave is fine, Java Web Start is fine and anything else that could be installed by users going to this web page and clicking here and that is maintained something like Adobe pdf readers would be fine. In case you haven't seen the next version of .NET yet, Visual Studio 2005 has a Click Once feature that is exactly this. The zero touch deployment or xcopy stuff that started with the first release of .NET was like the first version of Windows, the start of an idea that wasn't really too far along. The next version improves quite a bit on this beginning. Actually, you have options to start from a web 'click', install a link to the desktop/start menu, etc.. It automatically checks/downloads a newer version (or runs locally if no connection to the server). I'm sure there are still going to be some issues (dealing with unmanaged code comes to mind) but, it should work very well with UniObjects.NET (when it gets here). Regards, Jim -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Uniobjects / php
Does anyone know if they have uniobjects for php? Thanks David. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
And will this next version of .NET run fine on Linux and Mac OS? Well, that is the question just about everyone would like answered. It seems that Microsoft is well aware of several projects (mono being the most popular) and is monitoring those developments at this point. I can't tell if they are assisting or resisting what is going on at this point, but, eventually, I think it WILL happen in some way. Regards, Jim -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: GUI as nice as character-based
In a message dated 4/20/2004 7:21:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Or if you want browser based cross platform - is anyone on the list using Macromedia flash to talk to U2 through web services? Brian Aren't you missing something there? Or can web services speak directly to a U2 database? And if so ... how? Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
When Apple came out with the XServer we were all excited and started looking at transitioning our servers and clients to the Apple environment. This project never went anywhere because IBM would not commit to supporting UniVerse in that environment. Since Mac and XServer are OS X and OS X is based on FreeBSD 4.x I thought it would be something IBM might want to do to provide an avenue of escape from the M$ strangle hold. No joy... Ron White --- [ Eckel certifies this E-mail to be virus free. ] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Computer Languages gripe was Re: GUI as nice as character-based
In a message dated 4/20/2004 8:19:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (scary how much php has moved up lately!) Actually I find it reassuring to know that PHP is still more popular than C# Brian Wasn't C# writen by a programmer who could only type 10 words a minute? Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
In a message dated 4/20/2004 10:01:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However my previous employer (7 years ago) which was based in Portland, Oregon had 90% Macs and 10% MS Windows. The accounting department had the Windows machines. Everyone else (about 200 or so) had Macs. In fact we did all of our UD/SB+ development on Macs. My understanding is that they still have that setup at the headquarters but UD/SB+ was replaced with a system utilizing Oracle. Are you saying UD/SB+ runs *natively* on Macs? Or that UD has an OS layer for Macs? Or that you used Accuterm/Wintegrate to talk to some kind of server ? Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: We need a web based Forum!
In a message dated 4/20/2004 11:34:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yahoo groups works this way. You can either post via the web, or from Email, and receive either web only or also via email. Of course, if the forum being used is canned, and doesn't have those options, it might be a bit more difficult to do what we want. George But if this works like boards.ancestry.com or www.genforum.com then if you post via the email, your posting does not show up integrated into the boards. So some information is lost unless we have also an archival engine that saves all emails, integrating them into archived forum posts to re-form the consistent thread Sounds pretty messy. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
Are you saying UD/SB+ runs *natively* on Macs? Or that UD has an OS layer for Macs? Or that you used Accuterm/Wintegrate to talk to some kind of server ? Will [snip] No no, UD and SB+ were running on Sun Boxes. The Macs were desktop clients. We ran an emulator from Carnation Software. The actual name escapes me right now. Sorry for the confusion, Gordon Gordon J. Glorfield Sr. Applications Developer MAMSI (A UnitedHealth Company) 301-360-8839 This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: GUI as nice as character-based
In a message dated 4/20/2004 12:34:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'll accept that restatement, Will. My intent was not that there was no footprint on the client, but that the user could go to a URL and would be able to launch what they need to from there. So, shockwave is fine, Java Web Start is fine and anything else that could be installed by users going to this web page and clicking here and that is maintained something like Adobe pdf readers would be fine. Anything else that could be installed... covers a lot. So that would cover things like new fonts, flash, MrSid and other viewer plugins, RealAudio and other sound plugins, etc. So it seems you're just advocating basically a browser interface, and the caveat that anything that a programmer might realistically think a user doesn't have installed should have a link to how to install it. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: GUI as nice as character-based
In a message dated 4/20/2004 12:43:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, IMHO the primary usefulness of a GUI (lets face it folks, we're talking about the Microsoft Windows GUI) is the fact that so many people already know how to use it. Wait do you mean the Windoze GUI that MS shamelessly stole from Macintosh ? Ok then Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
mac2pick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gordon Glorfield Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:36 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) Are you saying UD/SB+ runs *natively* on Macs? Or that UD has an OS layer for Macs? Or that you used Accuterm/Wintegrate to talk to some kind of server ? Will [snip] No no, UD and SB+ were running on Sun Boxes. The Macs were desktop clients. We ran an emulator from Carnation Software. The actual name escapes me right now. Sorry for the confusion, Gordon Gordon J. Glorfield Sr. Applications Developer MAMSI (A UnitedHealth Company) 301-360-8839 This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Uniobjects / php
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Katz Does anyone know if they have uniobjects for php? Not that I'm aware of, but if you're brave you can convince UniObjects for Java and PHP to work together. Look on http://www.pickwiki.com for more information, at least two of us here have done it. In my case, they decided to go with InterCall instead, they had more C experience than Java. I don't know if anyone is using it in production-- the PHP-Java extension was still marked experimental last time I looked, and I was not able to get any help from the developer. -- Wendy Smoak Application Systems Analyst, Sr. ASU IA Information Resources Management -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: MactoPick was Re: What client platform do YOU use
In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:36:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is very creatively called MacToPick http://www.carnationsoftware.com/carnation/HT.Carn.Home.html Will Are you saying UD/SB+ runs *natively* on Macs? Or that UD has an OS layer for Macs? Or that you used Accuterm/Wintegrate to talk to some kind of server ? Will [snip] No no, UD and SB+ were running on Sun Boxes. The Macs were desktop clients. We ran an emulator from Carnation Software. The actual name escapes me right now. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: Uniobjects / php
In a message dated 4/20/2004 2:20:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not that I'm aware of, but if you're brave you can convince UniObjects for Java and PHP to work together. Look on http://www.pickwiki.com for more information, at least two of us here have done it. So are you saying that with Universe, Uniobjects and Java only I can have a web presence directly talking to my Universe database? Is that what you're saying? Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
The software was Mac to Pic. Thanks Mark Laursen Marriott Vacation Club International (863) 688-7700 Ext. 4339 [EMAIL PROTECTED] This communication contains information from Marriott International, Inc. that may be confidential. Except for personal use by the intended recipient or as expressly authorized by the sender, any person who receives this information is prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, and/or using it. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately delete it and all copies, and promptly notify the sender. Nothing in this communication is intended to operate as an electronic signature under applicable law. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gordon Glorfield Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:36 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) Are you saying UD/SB+ runs *natively* on Macs? Or that UD has an OS layer for Macs? Or that you used Accuterm/Wintegrate to talk to some kind of server ? Will [snip] No no, UD and SB+ were running on Sun Boxes. The Macs were desktop clients. We ran an emulator from Carnation Software. The actual name escapes me right now. Sorry for the confusion, Gordon Gordon J. Glorfield Sr. Applications Developer MAMSI (A UnitedHealth Company) 301-360-8839 This e-mail, including attachments, may include confidential and/or proprietary information, and may be used only by the person or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or his or her authorized agent, the reader is hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message and delete this e-mail immediately. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Uniobjects / php
If you want to play around with PHP interacting with the Universe
environment in an extremely simple way you can try the stuff below. Note
that I dont recommend this methodology for production systems but its a good
simple example.
The following stuff will execute any Universe command/cataloged program,
pass it data via the command line, and display the results. Assumptions:
You have a universe account setup as uvtest under your web root on a machine
running apache/php. The lister.html and lister.php files will reside in the
uvtest Universe account directory.
First create an html file (lister.html) containing a form to collect our
program name and any data to be passed to it. Here is my html:
html
head
title
Generic UV Process Runner
/title
/head
body bgcolor=white
center
h2Lets Run A Universe Process/h2
p
hr
form bgcolor=white name=aform action=lister.php method=post
table
tr
td
Program Name
td
input type=text name=name size=35
tr
td
Some Data
td
input type=text name=somedata size=35
/table
p
input type=submit value=Submit
/form
/body
/html
Now create our PHP file (lister.php):
html
head
titleUvtest/title
/head
body
?php
$name = $_POST[name];
$dat = $_POST[somedata];
$cmdstr = uv ;
$cmdstr .= $name;
$cmdstr .= ;
$cmdstr .= $dat;
exec($cmdstr,$returnedstuff,$retval);
foreach($returnedstuff as $oo) {
echo $oo br;
}
?
/body
/html
Point your browser to Http://localhost/uvtest/lister.html and happily
execute anything you can do from a UV command line. I first tested this
with LIST VOC SAMPLE 5 as the program name and no data entered. If you
construct programs which take command line input and output html code you
can pretty much create a whole application which uses lister.php as a
generic data mover.
--
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RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
As we get U2UG off the ground, one thing we are definitely doing is collecting requests from users. If you want to request that U2 run on OS X, then there either is today or will be tomorrow a means to do that. Until then, if you make it clear in a post to this list that you are officially requesting that the U2UG group collecting U2 enhancements add this one to their list, then I suspect we can make it so. Cheers! --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron White Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 1:22 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) When Apple came out with the XServer we were all excited and started looking at transitioning our servers and clients to the Apple environment. This project never went anywhere because IBM would not commit to supporting UniVerse in that environment. Since Mac and XServer are OS X and OS X is based on FreeBSD 4.x I thought it would be something IBM might want to do to provide an avenue of escape from the M$ strangle hold. No joy... Ron White --- [ Eckel certifies this E-mail to be virus free. ] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Mvquery Printing Question
I was wondering if any Mvquery users are having a similar problem to this with the Print Server Edition : When the reports print out the reports are requiring us to intevene because the reports are not going to the default tray. The report is being sent to the manual tray instead. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wait do you mean the Windoze GUI that MS shamelessly stole from Macintosh ? Presume you meant to say that Apple shamelessly stole from Xerox - n'es pas? ** This email message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of addressed recipient(s). If you have received this email in error please notify the Spotless IS Support Centre (61 3 9269 7555) immediately who will advise further action. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. ** -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Uniobjects / php
Yes, I've played with it -- no production work and yes, Apache's axis is THE way I'd do web services (were I to have such a project on my plate right now). --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stuart Boydell Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:54 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Uniobjects / php Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis The fastest, bestest, free way I know to have html--U2 with update capability is by using tomcat for a web server (or at least for an app server, i.e. a servlet container), then UOJ classes with Java. Client: Web Browser, with html / jsp Http Server: Requires a servlet container, such as tomcat, this is where the Java classes including UOJ classes run Database Server: U2 It works. See pickwiki.com (or .org?) You could use Jython, in theory, although I haven't tried that. --dawn Have you used Axis at all - would you consider throwing that into the mix too for Web Services? http://ws.apache.org/axis/ Stuart ** This email message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of addressed recipient(s). If you have received this email in error please notify the Spotless IS Support Centre (61 3 9269 7555) immediately who will advise further action. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. ** -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: Uniobjects / php
In a message dated 4/20/2004 3:12:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do you have a specific project in mind? There are at least half a dozen ways to get U2 data to appear on a web page, the best way depends on what expertise you already have in-house and how complex the problem is. -- Wendy Smoak Application Systems Analyst, Sr. ASU IA Information Resources Management -- Here's my expertise: 1) Pick BASIC 2) I can write HTML and I wrote a few javascripts! 3) I setup Apache as a web server But the problem has always been the equivalent of what mvInternet does. That is, connect Apache to Universe. So you have another idea of how to connect Apache (or really any other page server) to Universe? I don't understand what open port 80 means or whether this actually allows Apache to talk directly to Universe or whatever. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Brian Leach wrote: Or if you want browser based cross platform - is anyone on the list using Macromedia flash to talk to U2 through web services? Will wrote: Aren't you missing something there? Or can web services speak directly to a U2 database? And if so ... how? For info on Web Services talking to your U2 system, please see my series of articles on the topic for Spectrum Magazine: http://Nebula-RnD.com/spectrum/ We'll be posting article 3 in a couple days which specifically mentions tools for U2. Article 4 for the May/June issue is going to press now with examples of Web Services deployed for MV apps and in the mainstream world. For info on getting from Flash (Shockwave) to MV, see my other post for this thread that I'm posting at the same time as this one. Tony -Everything connects to MV- -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Brian Leach wrote: The data based stuff is pretty recent in terms of Flash, and I guess most of the Flash community hasn't caught onto it yet - after all, it is primarily a tool for content designers (and for some pretty good games too) so most of the people using it are not database minded. Brian, the Flash and Shockwave people have been working with databases for a few years now, though you're right that by and large most of those developers don't get the value of real databases yet. As Craig Bennett says All the graphic designers in the audience just stared ... They're approaching it from an artistic view and not an applications view. They see a database as a place to put data, like for game scores, but not as an integral part of an application the way we MV people see it. For years I've seen this gap in perception as being an opportunity for MV people to refit their apps with user-friendly UI's, but MV people don't get that either. The Macromedia-type web developers are very interested in data connectivity for zero-install or low-footprint clients. I did a presentation for the Orange County Multimedia Association a couple years ago (when I was Product Manager at Raining Data) which included discussion of the MV model, comparisons with ODBC, using Omnis Studio for cross-platform development and deployment, and FlashCONNECT as a data conduit from mainstream graphical tools. The focus was on data connectivity and trying to get them to get it, not any one product or technology. See the following link for demos I wrote to get from various clients (including Shockwave/Flash) into D3. (That was over 4 years ago now - whoe!) The same techniques can be used with different tools and back-end DBMS environments, so don't let the FlashCONNECT thing scare you. http://flashconnect.rainingdata.com/wuc2000/fcdemos/index.html Note that I did the Shockwave interface as an installable thick-client, though it could have just as easily have been a thin-client browser plug-in. In hind site I probably should have made it thin but my focus was on demonstrating the variety of technologies - making everything a browser interface would make it easier for people to get eye candy but would have limited the scope of the real purpose of the demo. If someone would like to use Macromedia or Adobe GUI products with U2 or other MV applications, I'd enjoy providing the communications interfaces for such a project. It wouldn't be a simple or cheap solution, particularly at this stage - writing Flash dialogs is hard work - until someone does something to capitalize on it. There are already plenty of (considerably cheaper) tools that produce flash content without having to use Flash as the actual designer, so it may only be a question of time before someone with the money and time realises the potential there and comes up with a suitable tool. Real Flash work is easier than it used to be and much more feature-rich. As indicated above I think the issue is getting people to see the value in the UI as well as the tools that can drive it. Most people don't understand Flash and think of it as a toy rather than as a tool - just like people look down on CUI business software. Anyone who wants a browser-based GUI, especially cross-platform, should seriously look at Flash and Shockwave, in addition to Java. The big question is who is your audience? If the audience is Joe internet user then Flash may be better. If your application is more extranet-oriented then I'd tend toward Java, depending on the features required. Tony -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
chris wrote: mono is an C# .net port for linux. It supposed to run C# exes as is (from a windows box) I haven't tired it yet. I still working on my hello world app in C# so I'm not ready to try porting anything :) I'm just trying to find the time to get into Mono. I believe it has a bright future and will be great for all of us wanting cross-platform access into our MV apps. Tony Technical editor, C#Builder Kick Start, SAMS Publishing Buy it at Amazon or at your local book store! :) Post your C# questions to http://csharp-station.com/ Dawn M. Wolthuis wrote: And will this next version of .NET run fine on Linux and Mac OS? I don't keep current enough with MS and I know they keep suggesting they will run on Linux and MacOS, but I'm not familiar with any projects that will actually accomplish that. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
