Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
The problem (for me) in using Blip's feed is that I have only one account @ Blip and all my media plops down there first, including the audiobooks, poetry and political stuff, most of which never gets posted to my regular Faux Press vlog. Now, if I could create different shows @ Blip, each with a different RSS feed, that would be a different horse altogether. Blippers? Jan P.S. I read what y'all have to say about technical stuff all the time. It's been going over my head for two years. OMG, it's my second vlogiversary! But finally, with this thread, it begins to make sense. A milestone or two I thought worth mentioning. Whoot. On 2/9/07, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, if you read my more recent response, you would see that I pointed out the need for a plugin for blog engines, though it should def be a core feature, to output proper mediaRSS including thumbs. And I mentioned it wouldn't hurt to also include rel=thumbnail in the posts markup. of course there needs to be an input mechanism for a thumb... but the point you are missing... is that the effort to get people to markup there posts with a rel=thumbnail should not come without it being wrapped into getting better support for mediaRSS and its media:thumbnail. If you are going to rally people to do something new, or for a developer to add a new feature... then at this point all that effort should be focused on mediaRSS and your rel=thumb or class=thumb or whatever can ride the coattails of such a campaign. Secondly, regarding blip feeds and my suggestion to use them over feedburner I am entirely talking about video feeds. VIDEO feeds. I call them vodcasts. In the context of this topic, re: video thumbs, I am not looking at users general feed needs. I am looking at their VIDEO feed needs. And for video, there is no better feed than blip's if you are a blip user. There is nothing wrong with offering subscribers a feed with all posts and a feed with strictly videos. So my suggestion stands. This is the Videoblogging group, not the blogging group. Sull On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED] bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Andreas, just following up on this. I re-read all your comments in the thread and I think this just about sums it up. Let me know if I'm wrong. I must say, btw, while I think you're right about multiple video thumbnails in a blog post and that some blog platforms like drupal, wordpress, or blip may need such a standard that if I were to follow the google's 3% rule... that this is only ever going to come into play in extremely rare instances. Probably a thousnandth of a percentage of vlog posts over the coming years. That said the world of standards is governed by different factors then the world of interface design. While from an interface standpoint I would remove such long tail features to reduce complexity and clutter in design I do acknowlege that we do need to include them in such standards. In summary, while we shoudl include this complexity, the intention is to be able to explain this standard to people as simply as rel=tag. For example, this is all most people need to know... Thumbnails not showing up for your videos? -- To add thumbnails to your video blog posts that will be recognized by videoblog aggregators and search engines like Mefeedia.com please add class=thumbnail to thumbnails corresponding to the video in your blog posts. ie. img src=thumbnail.gif class=thumbnail Enough said? -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/19/07, Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Den 19.02.2007 kl. 13:00 skrev Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Having some sort of wrapper around it is optional. Optional for the author, but it must be required of the parser that it understands the wrapper. Otherwise it will not be able to match thumbnails to video files (or blog posts) on pages that contains more than one video. It goes in the 'strongly encouraged, but optional' category. I'll have to read up on hAtom, I can understand how hVlog would make it easier to parse, but quite frankly I think it would so confuse the average vlogger they'd be apt to either improperly mark up their blog posts, or simply forget about it all together. I guess the question is should we even mention it at all in this thumbnail spec? Specs are for programmers, not for regular people. It should most definitely be listed as a reference. To get the average vlogger to understand what they have to do you will have to write a how-to article. -- Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen URL: http://www.solitude.dk/ Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Den 19.02.2007 kl. 13:00 skrev Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Having some sort of wrapper around it is optional. Optional for the author, but it must be required of the parser that it understands the wrapper. Otherwise it will not be able to match thumbnails to video files (or blog posts) on pages that contains more than one video. It goes in the 'strongly encouraged, but optional' category. I'll have to read up on hAtom, I can understand how hVlog would make it easier to parse, but quite frankly I think it would so confuse the average vlogger they'd be apt to either improperly mark up their blog posts, or simply forget about it all together. I guess the question is should we even mention it at all in this thumbnail spec? Specs are for programmers, not for regular people. It should most definitely be listed as a reference. To get the average vlogger to understand what they have to do you will have to write a how-to article. -- Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen URL: http://www.solitude.dk/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Den 10.02.2007 kl. 02:10 skrev Frank Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED]: a href='mythunbnail.jpg' rel='thumbnail'img src='mythumbnail.jpg'//a Then it will show fine in browsers, be XHTML compliant, and easy to scrape while generating a feed. Thoughts? Doesn't work in the real world. People use thumbnails to link to their video and you can't have two links on the same object. -- Andreas Haugstrup Pedersen URL: http://www.solitude.dk/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
This is a good point Steve, Ro and his flash-thumb things were freaking greathaven't seen anything beyond this. imho, it is were me, and it used to be :) as a content-creator, I found snapping a thumb of my clip and using it in my post, ad therefore in my feed took far less time than the value I found in making sure that the feed looked good in the aggregators. I'd love to wait and see what crazy new thumb/flash thing that someone builds, but for the time being it seems so simple and easy to have a thumb for a clip in a feed. Spending as much time as I do around aggregators, etc. the ones with thumbs for each clip look more enticing.it's all part of packaging really. People spend a ton of time building out their blogs, video-content, etc.but (in most cases) spend very little time on the presentation of thier rss feed. Since rss (so far) is a huge part of the ditribution method of this new media I would think it would be very important to have a robust rss feed with as much metadata as can be jammed into it. Thanks, Devlon Duthie -- http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Steve Watkins wrote: Are static thumbnails any good for video really anyway? Are there any examples of, or people working on, something more than single frame thumbnails? Ive been pondering whether a better way of previewing video exists, I dont know as it does, but Im thinking about it anyway. Im also very excited about future much richer nicer user interfaces. Microsoft stuff like WPF, WPF/E, AJAX/DHTML in general, and Apple stuff like Core Animation, are technologies that may help this a bit. Will certainly need thumbnails or preview animations of videos to make this experience decent, I hadnt realised that thumbnail in RSS stuff was still such an issue - big shame, doubt I can be much use helping with this, but full support to anybody who can, please :) Is there any need to provide more than one thumbnail for a post in the feed? Different resolutions etc? Is there anything in RSS at the moment for attaching artwork or icon to the whole feed (eg show branding? Any merit whatsoever for enabling people to sspecify a graphic for license info - eg is there any sense whatsoever to having people do their creative commons stuff as a seperate video animation or still? I was just musing about alternative video aggregators of the future and how they could display the license info for each video in s small seperate window? OK thats probably a silly idea, I dunno. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull sulleleven@ wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 duthied@ duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Could you expand that a bit? How easy is it for a layman vlogger to set a thumb in their post, then have it come out in the media:thumb element on their feed? I am not being sarcastic, I haven't played with mediaRSS as a content creator and am curious about the workflow...I'm still green in the mediaRSS world. Seems like until everyone adopts mediaRSS, or whatever comes out in the meantime, adding 'rel=thumbnail' to an image tag is easy enough...even for the layman. -- Devlon billshackelford wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck petervandijck@ wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg jkinberg@ wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab thumbnails from blog posts if they are included in the link to the video enclosure file like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosureimg src=http://link/to/thumbnail/image.jpg; //a We also have the ability to get thumbnail images from MeFeedia, but it seems that MeFeedia may have disabled this feature. Hope that helps explain... please stay tuned for our new website update that will address this along with many other bug fixes and new features. Best, Josh http://FireAnt.tv On 1/19/07, billshackelford bshackelford@bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: My videos do not have thumbnails on FireAnt. It seems they do not utilize the Yahoo Media RSS namespace attributes. Is there a reason why? If there is a legal reason.. why don't they just come up with their own namespace? I believe I read something about FireAnt getting thumbnails from Mefeedia but my
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Well, the truth is that both approaches should be used. So if the effort can encapsulate supporting mediaRSS and rel=thumbnail then we'll be in great shape. Wordpress etc should natively support mediaRSS output. But a plugin is a good start. It could insert the rel=thumbnail and the feed could grab the same image for media:thumbnail. Feedburner needs to improve their support for thumbnails. Blip users should seriously consider using blip feeds instead of feedburner. Aggregators should do checks for media:thumbnail and alternatively, rel=thumbnail. Sull On 2/9/07, Devlon Duthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you expand that a bit? How easy is it for a layman vlogger to set a thumb in their post, then have it come out in the media:thumb element on their feed? I am not being sarcastic, I haven't played with mediaRSS as a content creator and am curious about the workflow...I'm still green in the mediaRSS world. Seems like until everyone adopts mediaRSS, or whatever comes out in the meantime, adding 'rel=thumbnail' to an image tag is easy enough...even for the layman. -- Devlon billshackelford wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck petervandijck@ wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg jkinberg@ wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab thumbnails from blog posts if they are included in the link to the video enclosure file like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosureimg src=http://link/to/thumbnail/image.jpg; //a We also have the ability to get thumbnail images from MeFeedia, but it seems that MeFeedia may have disabled this feature. Hope that helps explain... please stay tuned for our new website update that
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Yeah, I'd give one of my toes (maybe even two...) for Ro's source code. I haven't posted a vlog in a very long time, but when I didyup, every post had a thumb, just got used to it from the 'old days'. But I think now with flash embeds, people forgot that the embed 'visual' doesn't carry through to the feed and their feeds have no thumbs. If nothing else, the thumbs give someone who isn't already interested in watching your clip something that might entice them to watch. I've found lots of new feeds to watch just from scanning thumbsI can get a glimpse of what's inside the media...helps with the glut of it all. -- Thanks, Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Steve Watkins wrote: Ahar cheers thats where I had seen animated previews in the past but I forgot - Ro's flash thumbs - thanks for the reminder. Could you go into a bit more detail about the sorts of things youve done to ensure your feed looks good? How are you including a thumbnail for each post at the moment? I hope the momentum for improving on RSS can be rebuilt, there seemed to be a burst of activity a few years ago but not much progress since? Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Devlon Duthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a good point Steve, Ro and his flash-thumb things were freaking greathaven't seen anything beyond this. imho, it is were me, and it used to be :) as a content-creator, I found snapping a thumb of my clip and using it in my post, ad therefore in my feed took far less time than the value I found in making sure that the feed looked good in the aggregators. I'd love to wait and see what crazy new thumb/flash thing that someone builds, but for the time being it seems so simple and easy to have a thumb for a clip in a feed. Spending as much time as I do around aggregators, etc. the ones with thumbs for each clip look more enticing.it's all part of packaging really. People spend a ton of time building out their blogs, video-content, etc.but (in most cases) spend very little time on the presentation of thier rss feed. Since rss (so far) is a huge part of the ditribution method of this new media I would think it would be very important to have a robust rss feed with as much metadata as can be jammed into it. Thanks, Devlon Duthie -- http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Steve Watkins wrote: Are static thumbnails any good for video really anyway? Are there any examples of, or people working on, something more than single frame thumbnails? Ive been pondering whether a better way of previewing video exists, I dont know as it does, but Im thinking about it anyway. Im also very excited about future much richer nicer user interfaces. Microsoft stuff like WPF, WPF/E, AJAX/DHTML in general, and Apple stuff like Core Animation, are technologies that may help this a bit. Will certainly need thumbnails or preview animations of videos to make this experience decent, I hadnt realised that thumbnail in RSS stuff was still such an issue - big shame, doubt I can be much use helping with this, but full support to anybody who can, please :) Is there any need to provide more than one thumbnail for a post in the feed? Different resolutions etc? Is there anything in RSS at the moment for attaching artwork or icon to the whole feed (eg show branding? Any merit whatsoever for enabling people to sspecify a graphic for license info - eg is there any sense whatsoever to having people do their creative commons stuff as a seperate video animation or still? I was just musing about alternative video aggregators of the future and how they could display the license info for each video in s small seperate window? OK thats probably a silly idea, I dunno. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, billshackelford bshackelford@ wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull sulleleven@ wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreedand agreed :) We are currently rounding out where we check for thumbs. -- Thanks, Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com sull wrote: Well, the truth is that both approaches should be used. So if the effort can encapsulate supporting mediaRSS and rel=thumbnail then we'll be in great shape. Wordpress etc should natively support mediaRSS output. But a plugin is a good start. It could insert the rel=thumbnail and the feed could grab the same image for media:thumbnail. Feedburner needs to improve their support for thumbnails. Blip users should seriously consider using blip feeds instead of feedburner. Aggregators should do checks for media:thumbnail and alternatively, rel=thumbnail. Sull On 2/9/07, Devlon Duthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you expand that a bit? How easy is it for a layman vlogger to set a thumb in their post, then have it come out in the media:thumb element on their feed? I am not being sarcastic, I haven't played with mediaRSS as a content creator and am curious about the workflow...I'm still green in the mediaRSS world. Seems like until everyone adopts mediaRSS, or whatever comes out in the meantime, adding 'rel=thumbnail' to an image tag is easy enough...even for the layman. -- Devlon billshackelford wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck petervandijck@ wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg jkinberg@ wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Yeah i made mention of videoblogging-universe.com earlier in this thread... and it was the first time I thought about RO for a long while. I enjoyed chatting with him back in the day. At one point, he and meiser and I were formulating a way to use his stuff through an open service- thats actually why SpreadTheMedia.org was born. But we just couldnt seem to keep momentum and RO left the scene. Ok, I am going to email him ;) Sull On 2/9/07, Devlon Duthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I'd give one of my toes (maybe even two...) for Ro's source code. I haven't posted a vlog in a very long time, but when I didyup, every post had a thumb, just got used to it from the 'old days'. But I think now with flash embeds, people forgot that the embed 'visual' doesn't carry through to the feed and their feeds have no thumbs. If nothing else, the thumbs give someone who isn't already interested in watching your clip something that might entice them to watch. I've found lots of new feeds to watch just from scanning thumbsI can get a glimpse of what's inside the media...helps with the glut of it all. -- Thanks, Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Steve Watkins wrote: Ahar cheers thats where I had seen animated previews in the past but I forgot - Ro's flash thumbs - thanks for the reminder. Could you go into a bit more detail about the sorts of things youve done to ensure your feed looks good? How are you including a thumbnail for each post at the moment? I hope the momentum for improving on RSS can be rebuilt, there seemed to be a burst of activity a few years ago but not much progress since? Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Devlon Duthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a good point Steve, Ro and his flash-thumb things were freaking greathaven't seen anything beyond this. imho, it is were me, and it used to be :) as a content-creator, I found snapping a thumb of my clip and using it in my post, ad therefore in my feed took far less time than the value I found in making sure that the feed looked good in the aggregators. I'd love to wait and see what crazy new thumb/flash thing that someone builds, but for the time being it seems so simple and easy to have a thumb for a clip in a feed. Spending as much time as I do around aggregators, etc. the ones with thumbs for each clip look more enticing.it's all part of packaging really. People spend a ton of time building out their blogs, video-content, etc.but (in most cases) spend very little time on the presentation of thier rss feed. Since rss (so far) is a huge part of the ditribution method of this new media I would think it would be very important to have a robust rss feed with as much metadata as can be jammed into it. Thanks, Devlon Duthie -- http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Steve Watkins wrote: Are static thumbnails any good for video really anyway? Are there any examples of, or people working on, something more than single frame thumbnails? Ive been pondering whether a better way of previewing video exists, I dont know as it does, but Im thinking about it anyway. Im also very excited about future much richer nicer user interfaces. Microsoft stuff like WPF, WPF/E, AJAX/DHTML in general, and Apple stuff like Core Animation, are technologies that may help this a bit. Will certainly need thumbnails or preview animations of videos to make this experience decent, I hadnt realised that thumbnail in RSS stuff was still such an issue - big shame, doubt I can be much use helping with this, but full support to anybody who can, please :) Is there any need to provide more than one thumbnail for a post in the feed? Different resolutions etc? Is there anything in RSS at the moment for attaching artwork or icon to the whole feed (eg show branding? Any merit whatsoever for enabling people to sspecify a graphic for license info - eg is there any sense whatsoever to having people do their creative commons stuff as a seperate video animation or still? I was just musing about alternative video aggregators of the future and how they could display the license info for each video in s small seperate window? OK thats probably a silly idea, I dunno. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, billshackelford bshackelford@ wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, sull sulleleven@ wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck petervandijck@ wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
class=media-thumbnail ? Yes, I think a class attribute on the image is good -- all that is needed is standardization on the class name. Also, it would make sense if the image were contained within some type of block that refers to the video, like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosure img src=http://link/to/thumbnail.jpg; class=media-thumbnail / /a That way, you would know which video the thumbnail image is referring to. my .02 cents... -Josh On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things,
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Although I agree with you Josh, why is class=media-thumbnail better than rel=thumbnail in this example? (It's consistent?) Thanks, Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Joshua Kinberg wrote: class=media-thumbnail ? Yes, I think a class attribute on the image is good -- all that is needed is standardization on the class name. Also, it would make sense if the image were contained within some type of block that refers to the video, like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosure img src=http://link/to/thumbnail.jpg; class=media-thumbnail / /a That way, you would know which video the thumbnail image is referring to. my .02 cents... -Josh On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Mike, if you read my more recent response, you would see that I pointed out the need for a plugin for blog engines, though it should def be a core feature, to output proper mediaRSS including thumbs. And I mentioned it wouldn't hurt to also include rel=thumbnail in the posts markup. of course there needs to be an input mechanism for a thumb... but the point you are missing... is that the effort to get people to markup there posts with a rel=thumbnail should not come without it being wrapped into getting better support for mediaRSS and its media:thumbnail. If you are going to rally people to do something new, or for a developer to add a new feature... then at this point all that effort should be focused on mediaRSS and your rel=thumb or class=thumb or whatever can ride the coattails of such a campaign. Secondly, regarding blip feeds and my suggestion to use them over feedburner I am entirely talking about video feeds. VIDEO feeds. I call them vodcasts. In the context of this topic, re: video thumbs, I am not looking at users general feed needs. I am looking at their VIDEO feed needs. And for video, there is no better feed than blip's if you are a blip user. There is nothing wrong with offering subscribers a feed with all posts and a feed with strictly videos. So my suggestion stands. This is the Videoblogging group, not the blogging group. Sull On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Although I agree with you Josh, why is class=media-thumbnail better than rel=thumbnail in this example? (It's consistent?) The only reason is that rel is not valid XHTML attribute for img -josh On 2/9/07, Devlon Duthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although I agree with you Josh, why is class=media-thumbnail better than rel=thumbnail in this example? (It's consistent?) Thanks, Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Joshua Kinberg wrote: class=media-thumbnail ? Yes, I think a class attribute on the image is good -- all that is needed is standardization on the class name. Also, it would make sense if the image were contained within some type of block that refers to the video, like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosure img src=http://link/to/thumbnail.jpg; class=media-thumbnail / /a That way, you would know which video the thumbnail image is referring to. my .02 cents... -Josh On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Bah, standards ;) but, yes, good point. -- Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Joshua Kinberg wrote: Although I agree with you Josh, why is class=media-thumbnail better than rel=thumbnail in this example? (It's consistent?) The only reason is that rel is not valid XHTML attribute for img -josh On 2/9/07, Devlon Duthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although I agree with you Josh, why is class=media-thumbnail better than rel=thumbnail in this example? (It's consistent?) Thanks, Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Joshua Kinberg wrote: class=media-thumbnail ? Yes, I think a class attribute on the image is good -- all that is needed is standardization on the class name. Also, it would make sense if the image were contained within some type of block that refers to the video, like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosure img src=http://link/to/thumbnail.jpg; class=media-thumbnail / /a That way, you would know which video the thumbnail image is referring to. my .02 cents... -Josh On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, groups-yahoo-com@ wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Friday, February 9, 2007, 11:28:23 PM, Joshua Kinberg wrote: Although I agree with you Josh, why is class=media-thumbnail better than rel=thumbnail in this example? (It's consistent?) The only reason is that rel is not valid XHTML attribute for img So why not wrap the image in an anchor tag which _does_ support rel: a href='mythunbnail.jpg' rel='thumbnail'img src='mythumbnail.jpg'//a Then it will show fine in browsers, be XHTML compliant, and easy to scrape while generating a feed. Thoughts? -- Frank Carver http://www.makevideo.org.uk
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Yeah, although it would work, I think it's a bit more of a kludge (no offense in that term, btw) than using a 'class' in the img tag. (imho) -- Devlon Duthie http://devlonduthie.com Find great independent video: http://mefeedia.com Frank Carver wrote: Friday, February 9, 2007, 11:28:23 PM, Joshua Kinberg wrote: Although I agree with you Josh, why is class=media-thumbnail better than rel=thumbnail in this example? (It's consistent?) The only reason is that rel is not valid XHTML attribute for img So why not wrap the image in an anchor tag which _does_ support rel: a href='mythunbnail.jpg' rel='thumbnail'img src='mythumbnail.jpg'//a Then it will show fine in browsers, be XHTML compliant, and easy to scrape while generating a feed. Thoughts?
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel I would hope and assume that Andreas would likewise stress the use of media:thumbnail. Ok, a discussion about mediaRSS came up here months ago and I chimed in. It involved mediaRSS and Drupal. I think it was the thread that Mike Hudack said that we would all be better off if Drupal didnt exist (though I hear there is a blip drupal plugin coming out ;). Anyway, Mike Meiser... you had said something to the effect that mediaRSS has failed us (videobloggers). I disagreed and simply pointed out that the culture is catching up with the need and usefulness of mediaRSS. So here we are again talking about different ways to do things instead of using what took months to spec out by an open group initiated by yahoo (andreas included). I understand the angle you are looking at this... I do. But I dont want the emphasis to be misplaced entirely away from furthering support of mediaRSS. Now I wont deny the idea to stick in a rel or class=thumbnail. I am fine with such semantics. But I just want to stress to you that if anyone is going to become a voice, collective or not, to encourage videobloggers to markup their posts in a way that defines a thumbnail and you want to get hundreds and thousands of people doing this then how can we not put efforts into getting media:thumbnail to be more widely used in conjunction with your proposal? That's all I am suggesting here. A prioritzation of sorts. Just focusing on rel or class markup can even be a step backward to getting mediaRSS more widely used. I'd like to avoid that. Alright so most people use Wordpress, correct? I typically do not but since it is popular, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned months ago about how to use wordpress custom fields to output mediaRSS... no plugin needed. But I will also search for nicer plugins instead of modifying the WP code. Drafting this... be right back ;) Back. http://www.vastmachine.com/blog/?p=4 Alright, i spent 10 minutes. one-click install of wordpress from dreamhost. added a custom field during my first post called 'thumbnail' and added a url to image. edited wp-rss2.php with a few new lines of code. http://www.vastmachine.com/blog/?feed=rss2 view source. media:thumbnail is in there. validates: http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vastmachine.com%2Fblog%2F%3Ffeed%3Drss2 Not so hard. I attached the wp-rss2.php to that post. Id rather tell wordpress vloggers to try this before telling them to markup their posts with thumbnail semantics. but both are good to do. thumbs are important. no doubt. sull On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their blogs contain text posts, and blogged posts from flickr, and posts that are reblogged from others. That makes about as much sense as telling them just to use their delicious feed, or flickr feed instead of their blog. Maybe my post was to long or something, but I'm sort of disapointed in the responses. Other than the fact that there is no rel atribute to img there's no reason not to do this. Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel, or perhaps I'd like to suggest playing the devils advocate, does it really matter if there's no rel attribute to img src? What's wrong with extending it? It guarantees there will be no conflicts, and it's in keeping with other standards like relTag, relNoFollow, relEnclosure and many others. Again just to play devils advocate... but what's wrong with extending HTML with a rel standard? If that is evil incarnate what other choices do we have? class=media-thumbnail ? I think this is already getting to convoluted... we need something the everyday people can understand... getting people to make the jump from rel= to class= is a big step to ask thousands of people to remember... these are not coders they're bloggers. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
yep, agreed and agreed. like i said, the effort should involve promoting both. same page ;) On 2/10/07, Frank Sinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi sull and all, 1) MediaRSS is what is preferred and chosen above alternatives b/c that is the standard. It would be great if all blogging platforms, feed providers, hosting providers, et all use the media:thumbnail standard. :) 2) However, since there are platforms that do NOT support media:thumbnail, what Mike is proposing is that videobloggers could use the img src= rel=thumbnail as an alternative... Hope that clarifies. Would be great for videobloggers to always have beautiful thumbs throughout the vlogosphere. :) -Frank Frank Sinton CEO, Mefeedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] frank%40mefeedia.com Y: fsinton Skype: fsinton http://www.mefeedia.com - Find, Watch, and Share great videoblogs and podcasts. Our blog: http://mefeedia.com/blog --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, sull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps andreas could suggest and alternative to rel I would hope and assume that Andreas would likewise stress the use of media:thumbnail. Ok, a discussion about mediaRSS came up here months ago and I chimed in. It involved mediaRSS and Drupal. I think it was the thread that Mike Hudack said that we would all be better off if Drupal didnt exist (though I hear there is a blip drupal plugin coming out ;). Anyway, Mike Meiser... you had said something to the effect that mediaRSS has failed us (videobloggers). I disagreed and simply pointed out that the culture is catching up with the need and usefulness of mediaRSS. So here we are again talking about different ways to do things instead of using what took months to spec out by an open group initiated by yahoo (andreas included). I understand the angle you are looking at this... I do. But I dont want the emphasis to be misplaced entirely away from furthering support of mediaRSS. Now I wont deny the idea to stick in a rel or class=thumbnail. I am fine with such semantics. But I just want to stress to you that if anyone is going to become a voice, collective or not, to encourage videobloggers to markup their posts in a way that defines a thumbnail and you want to get hundreds and thousands of people doing this then how can we not put efforts into getting media:thumbnail to be more widely used in conjunction with your proposal? That's all I am suggesting here. A prioritzation of sorts. Just focusing on rel or class markup can even be a step backward to getting mediaRSS more widely used. I'd like to avoid that. Alright so most people use Wordpress, correct? I typically do not but since it is popular, I am going to reiterate what I mentioned months ago about how to use wordpress custom fields to output mediaRSS... no plugin needed. But I will also search for nicer plugins instead of modifying the WP code. Drafting this... be right back ;) Back. http://www.vastmachine.com/blog/?p=4 Alright, i spent 10 minutes. one-click install of wordpress from dreamhost. added a custom field during my first post called 'thumbnail' and added a url to image. edited wp-rss2.php with a few new lines of code. http://www.vastmachine.com/blog/?feed=rss2 view source. media:thumbnail is in there. validates: http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%25 2Fwww.vastmachine.com%2Fblog%2F%3Ffeed%3Drss2 Not so hard. I attached the wp-rss2.php to that post. Id rather tell wordpress vloggers to try this before telling them to markup their posts with thumbnail semantics. but both are good to do. thumbs are important. no doubt. sull On 2/9/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/9/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford% 40gmail.com wrote: I agree.. mediaRSS already exists and is supported by many. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.comvideoblogging% 40yahoogroups.com, sull sulleleven@ wrote: nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull You're both COMPLETELY missing the point. This is NOT an alternative to mediaRSS. It's not an either or thing. When you're composing a blog post you can't very well mark something up in mediaRSS because you can only markup mediaRSS if you're actually coding your own RSS feeds. You need a way to be able to TELL wordpress... or feedburner or whatever is creating your RSS feed... heh this image, it is the thumbnail, please put it in the thumbnail field of the RSS feed. Secondly... Sull, people cannot just go and use their blip feeds instead of their feedburner feeds. Because their blogs are far more than just videos from blip... their
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab thumbnails from blog posts if they are included in the link to the video enclosure file like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosureimg src=http://link/to/thumbnail/image.jpg; //a We also have the ability to get thumbnail images from MeFeedia, but it seems that MeFeedia may have disabled this feature. Hope that helps explain... please stay tuned for our new website update that will address this along with many other bug fixes and new features. Best, Josh http://FireAnt.tv On 1/19/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: My videos do not have thumbnails on FireAnt. It seems they do not utilize the Yahoo Media RSS namespace attributes. Is there a reason why? If there is a legal reason.. why don't they just come up with their own namespace? I believe I read something about FireAnt getting thumbnails from Mefeedia but my thumbnails show up Mefeedia fine. Does anyone know if there is something I can do to have my thumbnails show up on FireAnt? Here is my channel on FireAnt: billshackelford.com podcast http://fireant.tv/directory/channel/22981 Yahoo! Groups Links -- Find 1s of videoblogs and podcasts at http://mefeedia.com my blog: http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/ my job: http://petervandijck.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
I don't think there's anything really wrong with img src= rel=thumbnail, to signify that this image is the thumbnail for a video/audio enclosure of this post. RSS generating tools (Feedburner) could use it to add the relevant thumbnail mediaRSS, and aggregators (mefeedia) can use it to display the thumbnail the videoblogger wants to show (a common request). I'd say just do it, start supporting it in mefeedia and let people know they can use it. Peter On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab thumbnails from blog posts if they are included in the link to the video enclosure file like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosureimg src=http://link/to/thumbnail/image.jpg; //a We also have the ability to get thumbnail images from MeFeedia, but it seems that MeFeedia may have disabled this feature. Hope that helps explain... please stay tuned for our new website update that will address this along with many other bug fixes and new features. Best, Josh http://FireAnt.tv On 1/19/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: My videos do not have thumbnails on FireAnt. It seems they do not utilize the Yahoo Media RSS namespace attributes. Is there a reason why? If there is a legal reason.. why don't they just come up with their own namespace? I believe I read something about FireAnt getting thumbnails from Mefeedia but my thumbnails show up Mefeedia fine. Does anyone know if there is something I can do to have my thumbnails show up on FireAnt? Here is my channel on FireAnt: billshackelford.com podcast http://fireant.tv/directory/channel/22981 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
I wrote a big ripping post on this on the main videoblogging group. What can I say... it was pertinent. :) Sorry, I might have called you all out by name. ;) I play dirty. :) -Mike On 2/8/07, Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think there's anything really wrong with img src= rel=thumbnail, to signify that this image is the thumbnail for a video/audio enclosure of this post. RSS generating tools (Feedburner) could use it to add the relevant thumbnail mediaRSS, and aggregators (mefeedia) can use it to display the thumbnail the videoblogger wants to show (a common request). I'd say just do it, start supporting it in mefeedia and let people know they can use it. Peter On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.comvideoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab thumbnails from blog posts if they are included in the link to the video enclosure file like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosureimg src=http://link/to/thumbnail/image.jpg; //a We also have the ability to get thumbnail images from MeFeedia, but it seems that MeFeedia may have disabled this feature. Hope that helps explain... please stay tuned for our new website update that will address this along with many other bug fixes and new features. Best, Josh http://FireAnt.tv On 1/19/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: My videos do not have thumbnails on FireAnt. It seems they do not utilize the Yahoo Media RSS namespace attributes. Is there a reason why? If there is a legal reason.. why don't they just come up with their own namespace? I believe I read something about FireAnt getting thumbnails from
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
Except that there is no rel-attribute on the img-element. - Andreas Den 09.02.2007 kl. 04:37 skrev Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I don't think there's anything really wrong with img src= rel=thumbnail, to signify that this image is the thumbnail for a video/audio enclosure of this post. RSS generating tools (Feedburner) could use it to add the relevant thumbnail mediaRSS, and aggregators (mefeedia) can use it to display the thumbnail the videoblogger wants to show (a common request). I'd say just do it, start supporting it in mefeedia and let people know they can use it. Peter On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab thumbnails from blog posts if they are included in the link to the video enclosure file like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosureimg src=http://link/to/thumbnail/image.jpg; //a We also have the ability to get thumbnail images from MeFeedia, but it seems that MeFeedia may have disabled this feature. Hope that helps explain... please stay tuned for our new website update that will address this along with many other bug fixes and new features. Best, Josh http://FireAnt.tv On 1/19/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: My videos do not have thumbnails on FireAnt. It seems they do not utilize the Yahoo Media RSS namespace attributes. Is there a reason why? If there is a legal reason.. why don't they just come up with their own namespace? I believe I read something about FireAnt getting thumbnails from Mefeedia but my thumbnails show up Mefeedia fine. Does anyone know if there is something I can do to have my thumbnails show up on FireAnt? Here is my channel on
Re: [videoblogging] Re: FireAnt.tv video thumbnails
nah. encourage mediaRSS spec for thumbnails. and consider using blip feeds (blip users). sull On 2/8/07, Mike Meiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, maybe we should skip the whole overriding media microfotmat thing... and in true microformats style solve the simplest and most necissary problem first. I.E. img src= rel=thumbnail It's actually hard for me to believe people aren't actually using this somewhere in the RSS-o-sphere. Has anyone seen anything. It perfectly in keeping with other specs like rel=tag, rel=enclosure, rel=payment and a host of others. It will also work with perfectly with other forms of media feeds like audio, and photocasts as well. It's a univeral element. Any objections to this? -Mike On 2/8/07, duthied2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] duthied%40gmail.com wrote: Hey all. I've been out of the loop on this list for some time and have tried to catch up on this, so forgive me if stuff has been said/asked before But, I'd love to hear how people are setting the thumbnails for their entriesdo you use mediarss on your site, is it only in the 'description' of the post, in a thumbnail element in the item elements? As Mike mentioned it's a hodge-podge currently. Glad to see the same names on here still, as well as many more new ones. -Devlon --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is also a larger issue Bill which Josh touched on. The general problem is that while 90% (or some otherwise very hight percent of vloggers) have thumbnails in their posts they are not semantically specified. This is to say they are not specified in standard way which can be recognized by aggregators and search sites like Fireant, vlogdi, mefeedia and others. For example... eclosures can be specified in your blog post among other ways by a microformat standard rel=enclosure. There is no standards for huge amounts of supporting meta infromation like thumbnails, i.e. there is no rel=thumnail. We're working on mechanisms not only to better identify thumbnails in blog posts, among other things, by creating a new media Microformat. It should not only have a tremendous immediate impact for people who use services like blip, feedburner, mefeedia, fireant and others, but it should also put this control into YOUR hands if you like when you're writing a blog post. P.S. Josh, I hope you'll collaborate on this media microformat as well as sharing other ideas on sharing thumbnail information. Peace, -Mike mmeiser.com/blog On 1/19/07, Peter Van Dijck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Josh, I haven't checked that feature in like a year, so it may have stopped working.. let Frank know if you have any questions about that, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it running again.. all my fault! Peter On 1/19/07, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Bill, We're currently working on this issue and plan to have a big new release of the FireAnt website in February. This new release will support the Media RSS namespace for thumbnails. Currently, we can grab thumbnails from blog posts if they are included in the link to the video enclosure file like this: a href=http://link/to/video.mov; rel=enclosureimg src=http://link/to/thumbnail/image.jpg; //a We also have the ability to get thumbnail images from MeFeedia, but it seems that MeFeedia may have disabled this feature. Hope that helps explain... please stay tuned for our new website update that will address this along with many other bug fixes and new features. Best, Josh http://FireAnt.tv On 1/19/07, billshackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]bshackelford%40gmail.com wrote: My videos do not have thumbnails on FireAnt. It seems they do not utilize the Yahoo Media RSS namespace attributes. Is there a reason why? If there is a legal reason.. why don't they just come up with their own namespace? I believe I read something about FireAnt getting thumbnails from Mefeedia but my thumbnails show up Mefeedia fine. Does anyone know if there is something I can do to have my thumbnails show up on FireAnt? Here is my channel on FireAnt: billshackelford.com podcast http://fireant.tv/directory/channel/22981 Yahoo! Groups Links -- Find 1s of videoblogs and podcasts at http://mefeedia.com my blog: http://poorbuthappy.com/ease/ my job: http://petervandijck.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this
