[Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Hi group, I'm excited to announce our newly formed non-profit organization to the advancement of cold fusion. We are planning an open catalyst project geared towards finding the secret catalyst needed to achieve nuclear fusion in the solid state. The plan is to use the power of the crowd to search and try the many different possibilities in a highly paralleled and fast way. By installing many many reactor-calorimeters in labs of participating scientist all over the world and by sharing all data in a structured way we envision an enormous advantage compared to the individual approach. For this purpose I designed a special reactor-calorimeter called the *Peer Pressure*, it is a simple reactor with extended data logging and autonomous Internet connectivity. Individual scientists can purchase a reactor, hook it up directly to the Internet through its TCP/IP connection, start testing materials and share results. The reactor is designed with a minimum of presumptions about the detailed working of cold fusion reactions and providing maximum versatility for the experimentalist. Please have a look at the Peer Pressure and let me know what you think of it, can you use it? Suggestions for improvement? http://www.fusioncatalyst.org/open-catalyst/peer-pressure/ Cheers, Bastiaan.
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Joshua wrote: “… And a top academic career would be a chair at a university or director of a research institute.” ** ** Well, Josh, by your own definition, Dr. Robert Duncan, Vice Chancellor of Research at Univ of Missouri, would then most definitely qualify as “top academic career”, and he was skeptical when CBS 60-Minutes asked him to be their expert on the Cold Fusion piece done in 2009. His conclusions are reasonable and in-line with the evidence: that something interesting seems to be going on and deserves a dedicated effort; which is CONTRARY to your position. Sure, but the point was not that anyone at the top of an academic career is necessarily skeptical of cold fusion. I was only quibbling with Rothwell's claim that people at the top of an academic career who supported cold fusion would be relegated to warehouse work. Since Duncan is still VP research 2 1/2 years after his cold fusion support, and in the process of setting up a cold fusion lab at Missouri, that kind of contradicts Rothwell's point too. ** ** Oh, well, he must have all of a sudden lost his objective faculties once he was infected with the LENR virus! No one denies that some prestigious academics support cold fusion research. Most don't, of course, but that was not the issue, in this instance. No academic position is immune from making incorrect judgements in either direction; Blondlot claimed N-rays, Planck rejected light quanta, and so on. ** Josh also wrote: “A science writer is a journalist. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not usually considered academic. Some people, like Sagan, mixed them successfully” ** ** You seem to be unaware of the fact that Mallove was NOT educated as a journalist. He was a graduate of MIT and Harvard with engineering degrees, so he was very well educated in technical disciplines; Most of the better science writers have strong science and technical backgrounds. That still doesn't make them academics, is all I was saying. I think Mallove’s career was very similar to that of Sagan; he just didn’t live long enough to enjoy more journalistic successes. The following is taken from Wikipedia: ** ** “Eugene Mallove held a BS (1969) and MS degree (1970) in aeronautical and astronautical engineering from MIT and a ScD degree (1975) in environmental health sciences from Harvard University. He had worked for technology engineering firms such as Hughes Research Laboratories, the Analytic Science Corporation, and MIT's Lincoln Laboratory, and he consulted in research and development of new energies.” Sagan was a full professor at Cornell, and director of the Laboratory for Planetary Studies there. That's an academic career. Mallove has an impressive cv, but it was not a top academic career.
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Very interesting! I suggest to add an option for a simple neutron counter. Specially good for cluster of reactors, but also for home users: you do not want them to be irradiated. mic 2011/12/20 Bastiaan Bergman bastiaan.berg...@gmail.com: Hi group, I'm excited to announce our newly formed non-profit organization to the advancement of cold fusion. We are planning an open catalyst project geared towards finding the secret catalyst needed to achieve nuclear fusion in the solid state. The plan is to use the power of the crowd to search and try the many different possibilities in a highly paralleled and fast way. By installing many many reactor-calorimeters in labs of participating scientist all over the world and by sharing all data in a structured way we envision an enormous advantage compared to the individual approach. For this purpose I designed a special reactor-calorimeter called the *Peer Pressure*, it is a simple reactor with extended data logging and autonomous Internet connectivity. Individual scientists can purchase a reactor, hook it up directly to the Internet through its TCP/IP connection, start testing materials and share results. The reactor is designed with a minimum of presumptions about the detailed working of cold fusion reactions and providing maximum versatility for the experimentalist. Please have a look at the Peer Pressure and let me know what you think of it, can you use it? Suggestions for improvement? http://www.fusioncatalyst.org/open-catalyst/peer-pressure/ Cheers, Bastiaan.
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
very interesting On 12/20/11, Bastiaan Bergman bastiaan.berg...@gmail.com wrote: Hi group, I'm excited to announce our newly formed non-profit organization to the advancement of cold fusion. We are planning an open catalyst project geared towards finding the secret catalyst needed to achieve nuclear fusion in the solid state. The plan is to use the power of the crowd to search and try the many different possibilities in a highly paralleled and fast way. By installing many many reactor-calorimeters in labs of participating scientist all over the world and by sharing all data in a structured way we envision an enormous advantage compared to the individual approach. For this purpose I designed a special reactor-calorimeter called the *Peer Pressure*, it is a simple reactor with extended data logging and autonomous Internet connectivity. Individual scientists can purchase a reactor, hook it up directly to the Internet through its TCP/IP connection, start testing materials and share results. The reactor is designed with a minimum of presumptions about the detailed working of cold fusion reactions and providing maximum versatility for the experimentalist. Please have a look at the Peer Pressure and let me know what you think of it, can you use it? Suggestions for improvement? http://www.fusioncatalyst.org/open-catalyst/peer-pressure/ Cheers, Bastiaan.
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: I didn't invent the name. It was called the Fleischmann-Pons Effect for years. Google it. All I'm suggesting is that we should honour the effect they discovered with their names, even if we don't know how and why it happens. No point in inventing a new name for an effect that already has a very definitive name. It is the Fleischmann-Pons Effect. AG I don't need to check the archives. What do you think I've been doing for the last 20 years? Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote: Christ man high school students replicated PF with both excess heat and transmutations, in a MIT lab and in front of over 100 ICCF 10 attendees? This reminded me of a Dilbert cartoon (since you seem interested in comic relief): http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-03-30/ And don't miss the sequel: http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-03-31/
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Potentially a good idea for a non-profit, especially if donations can drive the price down well below cost. That said, where is the calorimeter? Also, the device looks too small. This looks more like a Rossi replicator idea than a general purpose LENR investigation device. That seems a bit premature, given the publicly released evidence provided by Rossi thus far is so lacking scientifically. If Rossi has a successful venture this research might be moot, given the way multi-year billion dollar budgets that likely will quickly develop. If Rossi is not successful, this approach might be barking up the wrong tree. On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:02 PM, Bastiaan Bergman wrote: Hi group, I'm excited to announce our newly formed non-profit organization to the advancement of cold fusion. We are planning an open catalyst project geared towards finding the secret catalyst needed to achieve nuclear fusion in the solid state. The plan is to use the power of the crowd to search and try the many different possibilities in a highly paralleled and fast way. By installing many many reactor-calorimeters in labs of participating scientist all over the world and by sharing all data in a structured way we envision an enormous advantage compared to the individual approach. For this purpose I designed a special reactor-calorimeter called the *Peer Pressure*, it is a simple reactor with extended data logging and autonomous Internet connectivity. Individual scientists can purchase a reactor, hook it up directly to the Internet through its TCP/IP connection, start testing materials and share results. The reactor is designed with a minimum of presumptions about the detailed working of cold fusion reactions and providing maximum versatility for the experimentalist. Please have a look at the Peer Pressure and let me know what you think of it, can you use it? Suggestions for improvement? http://www.fusioncatalyst.org/open-catalyst/peer-pressure/ Cheers, Bastiaan. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com
In fhen formula when he says same careful techniques he means you must load NI+Fe+Mg with hydrogen again this cause Mg became MgH2, so you don't need external hydrogen for reaction and Fe in reaction cause H2 break apart into H1, paving the way for reaction. If you read chan formula you can understand fhen formula better . http://www.buildecat.com/blog_posts/ On 12/20/11, Peter Brosnan ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Brad Thanks mate . Eveyrbody seems to want to live forever .or die of boredom , each to his own Favorite movie Shawshank RedemptionGet busy living or get busy dieing I Plan on living to at least 100 (I want my letter from the Queen) It will take at least a month to get this ready Rossi saying. 600 c optimum @ 360 psi Defkalion is 400 c @400 to 500 psi Pressure release valve fixed at 2000 psi Im no genius, but there are several critical safety procedures to follow and I will be following each one to the letter . Phen stated the 500 c was only at stage 1Which was nickel and carbon ONLY (No Hhydrogen) get rid of all oxygen and oxides The 2000 psi was at 200 c The psi will jump to about 3500 psi , when 200c is applied ( I wont be going any where near that unless the engineer and machinist say OK) and thne it will be in a 12 mm steel caseing . The PRV will blow first straight into a steel pipe , heading 4 m , straight up The lead will shield me from the gamma The gamma is what Im hoping to detect , T think the technology hinges on that . Im 90 % sure this is not a hoax . And if it is I will go back to my other 2 projects Im really interested in your thoughts on the RFG , caviation ,ultrasonic . Ive heard of 360 Mkhz talked about and 89 Mkhz . A friend said I should introduce a form of microwave . Ive got no idea at this stage Do you ? Pete(The mad Aussie backyarder) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:42:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com From: ecatbuil...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Hi Peter, That's a lot of pressure and temperatures to work with... Remember the pressure will increase significantly when heated. Every part of your container needs to be rated for whatever the final temp/pressure combination is, including tubing, valves, sealant, etc. I'd like to know how you plan to safely bring hydrogen at 2000psi to 500C and then back down to a vacuum (of indeterminate pressure) inside a glovebox. But, yes, you can order a tank with a hydrogen regulator (300 psi) and have the bottle filled to 2000psi and go direct from the bottle to your device. (Of course, your welding shop can give you advice on this... which will be don't do it--you'll kill yourself.) - Brad
Re: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com
Things to consider: 1/ Probably want to make sure that the hydrogen you are being supplied is a reasonably high purity 'technical' grade. 2/ Most researchers use multi-stage vacuum pumps to achieve high vacuum, you probably want to buy a 2-stage vacuum pump such as used by HVAC technicians (you need high vacuum to evaporate and remove some of the contaminants you are trying to remove). 3/ Keep all of your valves, connectors, joints, seals, and feed-throughs away from hot areas in the test vessel. 4/ Do some reading on handling hydrogen. Hot pressurised hydrogen is dangerous - exceptionally flammable and explosive. Best to do experimenting in covered outdoors area where hydrogen can't accumulate, and use small tubes that don't permit too much flow. Keep hydrogen tank under cover and outside. 5/ Calorimetry is hard. It takes a lot of detailed effort to get good results when you are looking for small gains - and you won't be able to tell if anything is happening without it. You need a data acquisition system with at least 3 thermocouples for this work. On 20 December 2011 06:53, Peter Brosnan ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Thanks Ron and Hoyt . I appreciate your help and Yes after phone calls , Hydrogen tank $90 at 2000 psi Have to rent the tank and ordering Regulator as we speak Can buy a Vacum pump 1.5 cfm $90 or 6.0 cfm $150 Anybody understand if the 1.5 would be enough ? Intend to follow Phens formula first Anybody here experimented with what he stated ? Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:18:38 -0700 From: prot...@frii.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com I think you can buy it in a pressurized tank with a regulator from gas suppliers. On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:53 AM +1000 Peter Brosnan ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Guys , Pete from Australia here , I just found your site and joined up . I got interested in Phen as well Phen talks about The chamber is pressurized with hydrogen to 2000 psi and heated to 200 C I'm trying replicate this stuff, got some of the gear here already , the rest is coming . The Hurdle is how do I pressureize my H2 at 2000 psi . Most of the Gas compressor I've seen are $5000 + ( To rich for my blood ) One guy I read adapted his frigeration compressor for 600 psi Any ideas guys Thanks Pete __ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:05:44 -0200 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Private information about Rossi was the Ampernergo tests described by McKubre From: besantos1...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Yugo... must be serbian! (or croatian...slovenian...macedonian...) Just kidding. :-) No matter what, I like your skepticism. Even though, to me, it seems to be a lot of evidences pro-CF, it helps keeping our feet on the ground. 2011/12/19 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, I'm not sure what is the ethnic origin of Mary. Sorry, not Italian.
RE: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Initially, I found myself speculating that DGT's seeming reluctance to invite Stremmenos to their labs would seem to imply that if he did come and observe what they have in-house Stremmenos might uncover strong evidence to the effect that reverse engineering of Rossi's eCat design had occurred. But then... DGT sez Stremmenos can come and visit the labs anytime he wants to since they say he is still a board member. So, this begs the question: why doesn't Stremmenos go to DGT's labs and take a look around. I take it he could do just that anytime he wants to. Right? This makes no sense. At present this suggests to me the possibility that Stremmenos has deliberately chosen not to visit DGT's labs - presumably for some strategic reason that at present remains unclear to the general public - including a very baffled Vort Collective. This behavior as perceived from both sides of the fence suggest to me the possibility that both parties have something to hide. What that might be is still not clear to me. I find myself wondering if this is all but a staged drama in an effort to temporarily throw more confusion and obfuscation in the general direction of potential competitors, and that both sides are in collusion on the matter. ... but that is just unfounded speculation on my part. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:bad news for the universities
Andrea Rossi dixit: December 20th, 2011 at 6:26 AMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=6#comment-152332 Dear Enrico Billi: Anyway, I want again to confirm that we have understood perfectly the teory . Warm Regards (lavolale, lavolale!) A.R. Theory understood perfectly, practice solved with the help of the Customers- no more reasons to collaborate with any university- as Bologna or Uppsala. Cui bono? Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: This looks more like a Rossi replicator idea than a general purpose LENR investigation device. That seems a bit premature, given the publicly released evidence provided by Rossi thus far is so lacking scientifically. More to the point, we do not know what Rossi's catalyst contains. I see no point to trying to replicate without the formula, or with material from somewhere else, such as Ames N. L. Materials and material preparation are the key to cold fusion. The hardest part by far. You cannot use just any Ni material. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
I think people coming from a country with a relatively normal history re not able to understand well the behaviour of people coming from a country that was once a dictature- as Greece (or Romania.) Stremmenos and the leaders of DGT have been comrades in fighting against the military regime- and such an experience unites people. A friend is a friend and will not become an enemy even if they are now in opposed camps.Plus Stremmenos is the organizer of this action- he brought Rossi and his compatriots together. He is probably very disappointed that the deal failed and is mesmerised by Rossi. An unfortunate situation with no fast or radical.solution. Something similar with Rossi- he has insulted DGT- clowns- anyway snakes is much worse- but he has created the technology (it is not so relevant -from what?) and beyond any doubt he has made LENR a popular subject. This story is stiil in evolution. Peter On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:48 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Initially, I found myself speculating that DGT's seeming reluctance to invite Stremmenos to their labs would seem to imply that if he did come and observe what they have in-house Stremmenos might uncover strong evidence to the effect that reverse engineering of Rossi's eCat design had occurred. But then... DGT sez Stremmenos can come and visit the labs anytime he wants to since they say he is still a board member. So, this begs the question: why doesn't Stremmenos go to DGT's labs and take a look around. I take it he could do just that anytime he wants to. Right? This makes no sense. At present this suggests to me the possibility that Stremmenos has deliberately chosen not to visit DGT's labs - presumably for some strategic reason that at present remains unclear to the general public - including a very baffled Vort Collective. This behavior as perceived from both sides of the fence suggest to me the possibility that both parties have something to hide. What that might be is still not clear to me. I find myself wondering if this is all but a staged drama in an effort to temporarily throw more confusion and obfuscation in the general direction of potential competitors, and that both sides are in collusion on the matter. ... but that is just unfounded speculation on my part. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: So, this begs the question: why doesn't Stremmenos go to DGT's labs and take a look around. I take it he could do just that anytime he wants to. Right? This makes no sense. It is the damnedest thing I have seen in a long time. Mind boggling. The person representing Defkalion does not seem to understand what I am saying. He or she accuses me of claiming there is evidence of a crime when I said there is an accusation. That's a huge difference! This person does not seem to have a firm grasp of how business works. Either that or business in Greece is very different from the U.S. and Japan. Here is the latest confusion: Dear Mr Rothwell Still you have not provided any evidence on criminal action nor apologized for that. As you use to say *do not think that and words have no consequences.* In all coultures, conflict of interest is conflict of interest. Thank you, also, for confirming our story on the role of sceptics and fans. DGT Defkalion GT wrote: Still you have not provided any evidence on criminal action nor apologized for that. As you use to say *do not think that and words have no consequences.* I did not say there is evidence. Please do not distort my words. I said -- quite clearly -- there is an accusation of criminal behavior in the mass media. A member of your Board of Directors says you are engaged in serious false advertising. I said -- again, quite clearly -- you are probably NOT committing a crime. I wrote: I do not suppose that Stremmenos and Rossi are correct. I assume there is a misunderstanding . . . It would be easy for you prove you have the technology. I suggest you do this. There is no conflict of interest because I have no ownership or stake in your company. I think you should stop distorting what I say, apologize to me, and address the issues. I do not think I can get the message through. I suppose they do not want to hear it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: I think people coming from a country with a relatively normal history re not able to understand well the behaviour of people coming from a country that was once a dictature- as Greece (or Romania.) I knew lots of people who lived through the militarist dictatorship in Japan. They did not act as irrationally as Defkalion appears to be acting. I say appears to be because there may be some hidden reason for them to be saying these weird things. I suppose it is possible that Stremmenos is right, Defkalion has no technology, and they are running a gigantic swindle. If so, they are doing a terrible job at it. They are amateur con-men, who inspire no confidence. I can't imagine how they could attract investors with a member of their Board going around saying stuff like this! An investor will do a Google search and find out the company is mired in the worst controversy a start-up company could be mired in. Their response to me would not reassure an investor, or deflect doubt. The response looks to me like confusion, rather than an attempt to evade the issue. I get a sense they honestly do not understand what I am saying. Even though I have said it as clearly as I can, and it is not complicated. You don't know whether to laugh or cry. It is a shame that cold fusion ventures so often end up tangled in confusion, anger, broken contracts, and lurid accusations. I hope this confusion -- or whatever it is -- is cleared up soon. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Glad you responded to DGT, Jed, You conclude with: I do not think I can get the message through. I suppose they do not want to hear it. I'm inclined to speculate that, yes, they HAVE gotten your message. They probably got your message long ago. But perhaps, for strategic business reasons, they continue to deliberately obfuscate the issue by exercising the art of deflection and misdirection. Meanwhile, Peter Gluck recently shared some interesting observations about lasting loyalties even while two parties, on the surface, would seem to be on opposite sides of the fence. I agree with Peter in the sense that This story is still in evolution. Yes! It most certainly is! Again, I'm left with the impression that this drama remains a drama primarily because BOTH parties have come to the conclusion that at present it is in their best interest to maintain the drama, as perceived in the eyes of the public. As I believe you have pointed out, it would seem that this issues could easily be resolved if Stremmenos were to simply visit DGT's labs. But Stremmenos doesn't. I think he doesn't for a reason... a strategic reason. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Let me expand on some thoughts. I gather Stremmenos has yet to visit DGT's labs. Why? Several scenarios come to mind: * If Stremmenos were to discover the fact that DGT's hyperons are authentic, and that have created their own version of the secret sauce, it would essentially authenticate DGT's technology in the eyes of potential business investors. Maybe Stremmenos does not wish to gamble on that possibility. It could potentially hurt Rossi's business plans. It might also shed too much light on CF technology when they have not yet gotten all their ducks lined up. * If Stremmenos were to discover the fact that DGT's hyperons are authentic, and that they contain THE EXACT SAME RECIPE of the secret sauce, again it would essentially authenticate Rossi's technology in the eyes of potential business investors. Maybe Stremmenos does not wish to gamble on that possibility either. Again, it might shed too much light on CF technology when they have not yet got all their ducks lined up. * If Stremmenos were to discover the fact that DGT's hyperons AREN'T authentic, and that they don't contain the secret sauce, it would essentially falsify DGT's technology in the eyes of potential business investors. Strange as it might seem to say, perhaps Stremmenos does not wish to gamble on that possibility as well. Again, it might shed too much light on CF technology when everyone has not yet gotten all their ducks lined up. I think there is the real fear that the fallout of such a discovery could essentially boomerang back and reflect unfavorably on Rossi's technology as well. Despite all the drama that is currently playing out in the public domain, if both parties still feel they have a sufficient number of customers interested in purchasing their controversial products, then that would imply that there are still plenty of business deals to be made. It suggests that at present the pie is big enough for both parties to play in. However, at present nobody wants the pie to get much bigger that it currently is. I suspect the current collection customers might feel the same way as well. It would be in their best interest to keep potential competitors believing that the technology is too risky (or too bogus) to invest in. IOW, Keep the competition (and the evil eye of the DoE) guessing. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Any dictature breeds irrationalities and it is difficult to compare Japan's imperialist one seemingly very popular with the Greek one hated by the democratic people. And the kamikaze were lead by a very peculiar rationality. I think analogies have limited domains of application, we have to take care with them. History - even if we forget it in part is not repeatable. The story of the transistor is not like the story of cold fusion. One reason- the transistor was made from an element that's good for this purpose. while cold fusion was discovered in palladium- a historical misfortune. Different starts. On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: I think people coming from a country with a relatively normal history re not able to understand well the behaviour of people coming from a country that was once a dictature- as Greece (or Romania.) I knew lots of people who lived through the militarist dictatorship in Japan. They did not act as irrationally as Defkalion appears to be acting. I say appears to be because there may be some hidden reason for them to be saying these weird things. I suppose it is possible that Stremmenos is right, Defkalion has no technology, and they are running a gigantic swindle. If so, they are doing a terrible job at it. They are amateur con-men, who inspire no confidence. I can't imagine how they could attract investors with a member of their Board going around saying stuff like this! An investor will do a Google search and find out the company is mired in the worst controversy a start-up company could be mired in. Their response to me would not reassure an investor, or deflect doubt. The response looks to me like confusion, rather than an attempt to evade the issue. I get a sense they honestly do not understand what I am saying. Even though I have said it as clearly as I can, and it is not complicated. You don't know whether to laugh or cry. It is a shame that cold fusion ventures so often end up tangled in confusion, anger, broken contracts, and lurid accusations. I hope this confusion -- or whatever it is -- is cleared up soon. - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Here is a response to this proposal by Ed Storms. he feels this project is dangerous. I share his concerns. I was going to say this, but he says it with more authority than I could. Rossi himself has often cautioned his readers that this research is dangerous. I am glad he says that. - Jed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dear Bastiaan, We are witnessing the start of of a process that, I predict, will end in disaster. The Rossi effect is not suited to investigation by amateurs. High pressure H2 in heated containers is dangerous, finely divided nickel is poisonous, and calorimetry under such conditions is very difficult. This is not like the electrolytic method that could be studied safely by high school students. We need only one careless accident resulting in death to bring the regulators down on further research outside of an established laboratory. In addition, the number of variations in conditions and materials is so large, no hope of success is possible without considerable knowledge of materials. Even people presently doing such studies show very little knowledge about the subject. As a result, repeated failure will once again embolden the skeptics. In short, this suggestion is not the way to do science in this field and will subject many ignorant kids to considerable danger. Please withdraw this suggestion and post my comment. Ed
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: I'm inclined to speculate that, yes, they HAVE gotten your message. They probably got your message long ago. But perhaps, for strategic business reasons, they continue to deliberately obfuscate the issue by exercising the art of deflection and misdirection. Maybe. If so, they are not very good at deflection and misdirection. Frankly, I think their response to me makes them look stupid. I hope they are trying to patch up this mess behind the scenes and their response to me was stalling for time. But why not just say, we hope to clear up this confusion soon? Rather than accusing me of making false accusations. Anyone can see I am not making accusations at all! I am pointing out that Stremmenos is. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: And the kamikaze were lead by a very peculiar rationality. A horrible business. For insight into it, see the book I was a Kamikaze by Ruiji Nagatsuka, and Blossoms in the Wind: Human Legacies of the Kamikaze, by M.G. Sheftall. I know some pilots in the Imperial Japanese Army who would have ended up was Kamikaze pilots if the war had gone on. They were rational people. Not fanatics. As rational as you or I, which should give everyone pause. There, but for the grace of God . . . I do not think the act was so extreme. I think that if the United States had been on the verge of defeat by Nazi Germany, our soldiers and pilots would have taken equally extreme suicidal measures if they thought there was some chance of success. The fact is, the first kamikaze attacks were effective from a military point of view. They killed far more Americans than Japanese. If the success rate had been maintained, they could have wiped out the US Navy at the cost of a few thousand pilots, which is a favorable exchange rate in the grim jargon of the military. The US Navy quickly developed effective countermeasures. After the first few hundred attacks, there was no longer any chance of stopping the invasion by this method, so the later attacks were pointless. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Cooling is optional? Gak! Storms is right with one exception -- in a geometry such as Rossi has, calorimetry is fairly easy. But not by Rossi's measurement methods.
RE: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
They are disagreeing with your statement that Stremmenos accused them of criminal activity. You stated: What is disturbing about Defkalion is their dispute with Stremmenos. To have member of the Board of Directors accusing you of criminal activity in the mass media is the worst public relations nightmare I have ever heard of. It seems to me that if they are going to begin allowing visitors, they should invite Stremmenos first. Defkalion does not believe that such an accusation was made: 1) Stemmenos absolutely accuses Defkalion of scientific and technilogical inaccuracies, but does not explicitly state that any fraud has occurred. 2) He does state that Defkalion does not have access to the crucial element and the fulcrum on which it is based. But, Defkalion agrees in this instance. They state that their current Hyperions do not rely on Rossi's technology, but is their own distinct method. BUT... Where Stremmenos DOES explicitly accuse them of illegal activity is in the statement: Defkalion had no right to draw up international agreements outside of Greece and the Balkans. Therefore if it did draw up agreements outside of Greece and the Balkans, it did so illegally and without any authorization. Here, his accusation of criminal activity is contingent upon Defkalion having executing international contracts outside of Greece and the Balkans. Defkalion has not announced where it has sold rights, so, in effect, such a statement may not be libelous. Just a thought (roughly two cents worth)... FWIW, I agree with you 100% that they should address all of Stremmenos' statements. I cannot read the mind of DGT, but the lack of response may be less a matter of misunderstanding you, and more a calculated business-decision. Whether the decision is based on strategy or attorney's recommendation is anybody's guess. RL Stremmenos statement: http://pesn.com/2011/10/12/9501932_Stremmenos_Accuses_Defkalion_of_Lies_and_Megalomania/ Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:44:03 -0500 From: jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: I'm inclined to speculate that, yes, they HAVE gotten your message. They probably got your message long ago. But perhaps, for strategic business reasons, they continue to deliberately obfuscate the issue by exercising the art of deflection and misdirection. Maybe. If so, they are not very good at deflection and misdirection. Frankly, I think their response to me makes them look stupid. I hope they are trying to patch up this mess behind the scenes and their response to me was stalling for time. But why not just say, we hope to clear up this confusion soon? Rather than accusing me of making false accusations. Anyone can see I am not making accusations at all! I am pointing out that Stremmenos is. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Private information about Rossi was the Ampernergo tests described by McKubre
Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: In addition, there was plenty of rational skepticism here long before Yugo or Cude came around. By the time Yugo even made his/her/its presence known, I think the forum had already touched on her criticisms, including Rossi’s sordid past and run-ins with the law, the coziness of Ampenergo people with Rossi, shared office space, poorly done demos, how easy it would be to do a proper demo to remove all doubt – the list goes on – ALL of that was already discovered and brought up BEFORE she arrived. Yup, yup. Perhaps she was unaware of that. Perhaps she did not review the archives. However, many people pointed out to her that we have been over this ground. We said we agree he is controversial. It was clear when I said I would not buy a nail clipper from this guy that I was referring to his sordid past. I am sure Mary Yugo saw that. But she seems to be tapering off on the criticism so let's not fuss about it. The one accusation I think should be dismissed is the part about shared office space. A startup company is often located in the same address as a venture capitalist who is financing it. It is just a post office address, for convenience. Also let's give Rossi some credit here. He is offering an escrow agreement and other assurances. He cannot rip off the customer. He knows that he has a controversial past. He does not try to cover that up. Most important, he has invented important catalytic technology with his bio-fueled diesel engines. He has the right expertise and background to make this contribution. He has impressed many excellent people such as Kullander. A person can be creative scientist and also have bad business judgement, run-ins with the law, and a reputation for being a dodgy character (McKubre). Many great scientists and inventors were dodgy characters. Some deserved to have bad reputations; others were innocent. I do not know enough about Rossi to judge. Plus I am not a policeman or a judge, so this is not my job. If Rossi's technology is real, and he succeeds in introducing it, then all of his previous problems should be forgiven. They are trivial compared to this magnificent contribution. As I have pointed out, Edison was a dodgy character par excellence. He was constantly being chased by creditors and sheriffs waving unpaid bills. He operated like today's dot-com companies. He would get a huge advance from investors for an upcoming project. Instead of budgeting or paying old bills, he would splurge and buy laboratory equipment galore. After that, quoting Conot, p. 44, describing a project in 1870: A for $20 bill was paid $240 in cash, then $50 more, then nothing -- until the patient, pleading creditor finally sent the sheriff. A $335 bill was paid $115 cash, $145 later and $40 much, much later. . . . [The investor] Harrington had expected to put in $6000, but by the end of March Edison had spent well over $30,000 . . . Edison blithely assured Harrington, expenses may be a little heavy for the present but results will be tremendous. Harrington blew his top, sent in an accountant, and Edison said to the accountant (in effect) it is about time! Did you bring more money? In the event, results were tremendous. Harrington got his hockey stick return on investment, as we would say nowadays. Results usually were tremendous with Edison, except when they were not. He blew tens of millions of dollars on stupid projects that were not tremendous. We forget that Great Men in the past made idiotic mistakes. Rossi may have made mistakes too. Read history -- real history, not iconography -- and you will see that you must to look beyond a person's faults. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
From Robert: ... Whether the decision is based on strategy or attorney's recommendation is anybody's guess. IMO, both are good guesses. ...a little of both. I bet lawyers on both sides of the fence will make a bundle of money. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Defkalion's responses have a highly Steornish flavor. They are tangential. Evasive. I doubt it's a language problem. The most likely reason Defkalion answers Jed the way they do is that they depended on Rossi's word and his delivery of technology which never happened. My best guess is that it didn't happen for only one reason: Rossi had nothing which would stand up to detailed scrutiny so he created the conflict with Defkalion in order to postpone his exposure as long as possible. That is perhaps also the reason why his *only* client is anonymous. Why else would Rossi break with the one company that could have helped him efficiently and relatively safely market his E-cats and develop the technology? Continuing my theory, for unfathomable reasons, Defkalion may have pressed on without Rossi's core, claiming they developed one of their own. Really? How? And in such a short time? Most likely Defkalion also has nothing. Certainly, they have shown nothing and best as I can determine have never made promised arrangements for government tests or any other tests or visits. All of those were supposed to happen in Q4 2011 or earlier. And the delays, if that's what's going on, have not even been acknowledged or explained by Defkalion. IMO, both Rossi and Defkalion are simply bluffing and delaying, maybe hoping they will be able to develop the technology, whatever that turns out to be. Steorn, Dennis Lee, Carl Tilley and Sniffex, all had no exit plan and neither, it seems, does Mark Goldes. It doesn't seem as if Eestor and BLP do either. With time, either the perpetrators get in trouble with the law or if not, the claims and interest in them just fade out. Perhaps Rossi and Defkalion don't have exit plans either. Maybe both are playing the current game of words by ear.
[Vo]: Cosmic Trigger?
On an earlier post I suggested that the LENR reactions such as those exhibited by Rossi could have been triggered by cosmic rays. I was a little disappointed by the few comments that were generated and I was hoping to further study this possibility. One of the main skeptic positions is that it takes far more energy to activate the fusion like reaction than is available at normal temperatures. Why should we limit our thoughts to some form of steady state conditions for the initiation of the reactions when it may just take some triggering events to overcome the barriers? How many different initiation locations are required to make a block of TNT explode? Hopefully these are not occurring randomly, and if they were, who could store the material safely? Let’s try to determine whether or not the basic cosmic ray trigger concept is possible. If it is, what evidence should we look for in an effort to make that determination? First, is there enough energy available within a cosmic ray to activate a LENR reaction at any location within a nickel-hydrogen complex? Mr. Cude suggests that it takes in excess of 100 keV to overcome the proton to nickel coulomb barrier. His number seems agreeable to me, and now the question is whether or not this can be obtained by cosmic ray collisions? Second, if a small volume of material achieves reaction and releases several MeV of energy does the material then allow the reaction to spread? Of course the release of many MeV at the active region now would be adequate to enable more reactions since it far exceeds the 100 keV threshold suggested if in the correct form. Is there evidence pro or con as to whether or not this is happening? Third, are the pits seen on the electrodes of electrolysis type systems an indication that small regions are undergoing some form of extreme spot heating? Could this crater forming type of event suggest that miniature reactions involving millions of atoms are occurring? If so, why does the reaction head along one main path toward the surface instead of spread out uniformly? Could it be that the reaction follows the path of one of the suspect cosmic ray particles as it moves like a bulldozer through the matrix? Is it possible that the energy is released in a favorable direction to conserve momentum? Forth, I was reading that muons are one of the main particles remaining once a cosmic ray reaches the ground level. Have they been shown to activate cold fusion reactions in lab experiments and considered a well respected proven concept? I understand that the normal process is for DT reactions to be catalyzed, but there is mention of formation of a neutron like atomic structure. The size of this combination proton-muon group is extremely tiny and might be capable of overcoming the coulomb barrier by tunneling into the nickel nucleus. Why could this not happen within the Rossi type reactor where hydrogen gas is held within a high temperature and pressure environment? Could this then deliver the triggering energy needed? As you can see, I have listed a lot of questions that seek answers. The vortex community has numerous experts available that could help enlighten me and others if they would take a little time to consider these questions. I would find your responses as a well deserved break from the endless semantic games that are filling the bandwidth. Was the vortex originally formed as a collection of scientifically interested persons intending to discuss new concepts? Please demonstrate that we are here to work together instead of arguing endlessly. Thanks guys. Dave
[Vo]:OT: String Theorists Simulate the Big Bang
http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/string-theory-big-bang-2238/ The researchers said the spontaneous symmetry-breaking resulted from a quantum fluctuation — a momentary violation in the law of conservation of energy, which is permitted by the rules of quantum mechanics. The space-time has certain uncertainties … as dictated by Heisenberg's uncertainty relation. One of our important findings is that this quantum nature of space-time indeed favors three extended spatial directions rather than other cases. How the quantum space-time evolves into a classical one as we perceive now, is an important issue we are planning to address in the near future, Nishimura wrote.
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
How come Mary Yugo explanations of the current events sounds always the most rational, well thought and coherent? It just fits all the facts. Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Defkalion's responses have a highly Steornish flavor. They are tangential. Evasive. I doubt it's a language problem. The most likely reason Defkalion answers Jed the way they do is that they depended on Rossi's word and his delivery of technology which never happened. My best guess is that it didn't happen for only one reason: Rossi had nothing which would stand up to detailed scrutiny so he created the conflict with Defkalion in order to postpone his exposure as long as possible. That is perhaps also the reason why his *only* client is anonymous. Why else would Rossi break with the one company that could have helped him efficiently and relatively safely market his E-cats and develop the technology? Continuing my theory, for unfathomable reasons, Defkalion may have pressed on without Rossi's core, claiming they developed one of their own. Really? How? And in such a short time? Most likely Defkalion also has nothing. Certainly, they have shown nothing and best as I can determine have never made promised arrangements for government tests or any other tests or visits. All of those were supposed to happen in Q4 2011 or earlier. And the delays, if that's what's going on, have not even been acknowledged or explained by Defkalion. IMO, both Rossi and Defkalion are simply bluffing and delaying, maybe hoping they will be able to develop the technology, whatever that turns out to be. Steorn, Dennis Lee, Carl Tilley and Sniffex, all had no exit plan and neither, it seems, does Mark Goldes. It doesn't seem as if Eestor and BLP do either. With time, either the perpetrators get in trouble with the law or if not, the claims and interest in them just fade out. Perhaps Rossi and Defkalion don't have exit plans either. Maybe both are playing the current game of words by ear.
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
On 11-12-20 10:44 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: I'm inclined to speculate that, yes, they HAVE gotten your message. They probably got your message long ago. But perhaps, for strategic business reasons, they continue to deliberately obfuscate the issue by exercising the art of deflection and misdirection. Maybe. If so, they are not very good at deflection and misdirection. Frankly, I think their response to me makes them look stupid. Perhaps they *are* stupid. That issue is quite independent of whether they're honest. Not everybody in business who is in a position to control substantial sums is highly intelligent, after all. And if they're actually con guys, well, most criminals are, after all, kind of dumb (despite the fact that the ones who get famous and written up in the news tend to be exceptionally intelligent). This has been studied (can't cite a URL, sorry), it's not just speculation. Smart people generally don't feel the need to rob banks, or to go into dicey con games where they're more than half likely to end up in jail. The upside doesn't balance out the downside.
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.comwrote: And if they're actually con guys, well, most criminals are, after all, kind of dumb (despite the fact that the ones who get famous and written up in the news tend to be exceptionally intelligent). This has been studied (can't cite a URL, sorry), it's not just speculation. Smart people generally don't feel the need to rob banks, or to go into dicey con games where they're more than half likely to end up in jail. The upside doesn't balance out the downside. Right. Like Jay Leno, I think dumb criminals are particularly amusing at times. But I think with many, it's less a matter of low intellect and more a matter of a sociopathic personality which doesn't differentiate right from wrong and/or doesn't care about it. Some degree of sociopathy has, I think, evolutionary advantages therefore a lot of people and many cultures incorporate those traits. Many free energy and related scams appear to have originated from criminals and sociopaths and people who were undoubtedly both.
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
From Stephen: Perhaps they *are* stupid. That issue is quite independent of whether they're honest. Not everybody in business who is in a position to control substantial sums is highly intelligent, after all. And if they're actually con guys, well, most criminals are, after all, kind of dumb (despite the fact that the ones who get famous and written up in the news tend to be exceptionally intelligent). This has been studied (can't cite a URL, sorry), it's not just speculation. Smart people generally don't feel the need to rob banks, or to go into dicey con games where they're more than half likely to end up in jail. The upside doesn't balance out the downside. Speaking strictly for myself, I cannot rule out the possibility that the major parties participating in this little drama are NOT acting stupidly. Ceaseless speculation, where it is thought that deception may be the primary motivating factor eventually becomes a circuitous argument that feeds off of its own existence. I freely admit that I have been guilty of adding my own share of speculation on this matter. Perhaps it would be wise to stop further speculation until we can discern a more definitive pattern of actions from the primary actors of this drama. Until then... Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Giovanni sez: How come Mary Yugo explanations of the current events sounds always the most rational, well thought and coherent? It just fits all the facts. According to your personal paradigm. There will always be mutual admiration societies. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Maryyugo's explanation always sounds more rational because he, she conveniently omits the part that Rossi has allowed independent tests (although not performed to his liking) and these tests do show O/I, especially Lewan's 2nd test and the one performed by E K. If you added the following to the facts, that Rossi has allowed independent tests which are suggestive of O/I of at least 3/1 as well as the reports of others doing similar tests who are reporting O/I of 2/1, then his conclusions appear much less rational and coherent and more like someone conveniently omitting information they don't wish to discuss. Based on my watching this at least as long as Maryyugo, my best explanation is that while Rossi has a LENR reaction he 1) can't completely control it and 2) when controlling it can't reach the energy level he needs and continues to work on it in hopes of solving the engineering problems he has. Defkalion, knowing it is real don't want to give up on it (given its enormous potential) and having some knowledge of the process are probably getting similar results which are not ready for commercial application. The idea that neither has anything given all the evidence is less likely, although for yugo it is an easy leap since he denies the evidence in the Lewan test by hiding from them and pretending they don't say what they say. But there is no sense arguing with him since all of this is conjecture anyway if you dispute the Rossi demo's and even if you believe them, fraud would still be possible and we are dealing with probabilities and speculation. How come Mary Yugo explanations of the current events sounds always the most rational, well thought and coherent? It just fits all the facts. Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Defkalion's responses have a highly Steornish flavor. They are tangential. Evasive. I doubt it's a language problem. The most likely reason Defkalion answers Jed the way they do is that they depended on Rossi's word and his delivery of technology which never happened. My best guess is that it didn't happen for only one reason: Rossi had nothing which would stand up to detailed scrutiny so he created the conflict with Defkalion in order to postpone his exposure as long as possible. That is perhaps also the reason why his *only* client is anonymous. Why else would Rossi break with the one company that could have helped him efficiently and relatively safely market his E-cats and develop the technology? Continuing my theory, for unfathomable reasons, Defkalion may have pressed on without Rossi's core, claiming they developed one of their own. Really? How? And in such a short time? Most likely Defkalion also has nothing. Certainly, they have shown nothing and best as I can determine have never made promised arrangements for government tests or any other tests or visits. All of those were supposed to happen in Q4 2011 or earlier. And the delays, if that's what's going on, have not even been acknowledged or explained by Defkalion. IMO, both Rossi and Defkalion are simply bluffing and delaying, maybe hoping they will be able to develop the technology, whatever that turns out to be. Steorn, Dennis Lee, Carl Tilley and Sniffex, all had no exit plan and neither, it seems, does Mark Goldes. It doesn't seem as if Eestor and BLP do either. With time, either the perpetrators get in trouble with the law or if not, the claims and interest in them just fade out. Perhaps Rossi and Defkalion don't have exit plans either. Maybe both are playing the current game of words by ear.
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:52 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps it would be wise to stop further speculation until we can discern a more definitive pattern of actions from the primary actors of this drama. You can certainly abstain from speculation but you can't get a clearer or more definitive pattern of behavior from the primary actors. That pattern consists of evasive replies to perfectly reasonable and entirely safe questions on Rossi's blog and Defkalion's forum. It consists of hiding test data from invited reporters and scientists on October 28. It consists of one anonymous client you are supposed to believe bought 1300 (!) e-cat modules that when last tested leaked extensively and were only *claimed* to provide half of their rated thermal power (never mind the generator!). The rest of the pattern is failed claims to government tests by Defkalion, and slipped and indeterminate dates for demonstrating their products. And the final part is no independent testing of either, no university testing for Rossi and nobody who has seen anything tangible at all from Defkalion -- no factory, no labs, nothing. It's an abysmal pattern and thus far, it's crystal clear if you care to examine it.
[Vo]: NOT = NOT off topic, 2.188 = 2*1.094
Might I suggest all Not Off Topic (i.e., technical, aka, ‘signal’) postings use NOT in the subject line to make them more obvious to those who care not to waste bandwidth on the personal aspects of the Rossi saga… In my latest session of ‘serendipitous surfing’, I was scanning a PDF of the document in the Ref: section below, and noticed this little bit of text and the accompanying calculation: == “This screw type of motion obviously is optional and let us suppose that it corresponds to the electron motion in Bohr atom at orbit a0 with energy of 13.6 eV. Then the axial velocity is: v = (e^2) / ( 2*h*epsilon_sub_0 ) = alpha*c = 2.18769e6 m/s (3) where: e = charge of electron, h = Planck constant, c = speed of light, alpha = fine structure constant == Now what struck me was the result, 2.188e6 m/s. This is exactly twice the constant in Znidarsic’s work, 1.094e6 Hz.m Any connection? Frank, does this make sense to you? -Mark Ref: Theoretical Feasibility of Cold Fusion According to the BSM - Supergravitation Unified Theory Stoyan Sarg Sargoytchev York University, Toronto, Canada E-mail: stoy...@yorku.ca
RE: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Nothing new in Mary's post. as USUAL. The same old very tired speculations which PROVE nothing. Same waste of bandwidth. From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:32 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:52 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps it would be wise to stop further speculation until we can discern a more definitive pattern of actions from the primary actors of this drama. You can certainly abstain from speculation but you can't get a clearer or more definitive pattern of behavior from the primary actors. That pattern consists of evasive replies to perfectly reasonable and entirely safe questions on Rossi's blog and Defkalion's forum. It consists of hiding test data from invited reporters and scientists on October 28. It consists of one anonymous client you are supposed to believe bought 1300 (!) e-cat modules that when last tested leaked extensively and were only *claimed* to provide half of their rated thermal power (never mind the generator!). The rest of the pattern is failed claims to government tests by Defkalion, and slipped and indeterminate dates for demonstrating their products. And the final part is no independent testing of either, no university testing for Rossi and nobody who has seen anything tangible at all from Defkalion -- no factory, no labs, nothing. It's an abysmal pattern and thus far, it's crystal clear if you care to examine it.
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Nothing new in Mary’s post… as USUAL. The same old very tired speculations which PROVE nothing. Same waste of bandwidth. Maybe the pattern I pointed out is not news but there is no speculation in my post. It's simply observation and facts. Perhaps you are confusing it with some other. In any case, I was responding to someone who obviously does not see the pattern and I was trying to make it clear to that party. There is nothing new in MOST of the posts in this string. And many are repetitive especially Wuller's. But you don't object to those or any repetition which promotes or favors Rossi and Defkalion. Therefore I think you are singling out my posts for your complaints simply because you disagree with my views. I suggest that if you have some points to make which counter mine that you simply make them.
RE: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com
Thanks Robert I appreciate your advice Are you building ? Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:23:20 + Subject: Re: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Things to consider: 1/ Probably want to make sure that the hydrogen you are being supplied is a reasonably high purity 'technical' grade. 2/ Most researchers use multi-stage vacuum pumps to achieve high vacuum, you probably want to buy a 2-stage vacuum pump such as used by HVAC technicians (you need high vacuum to evaporate and remove some of the contaminants you are trying to remove). 3/ Keep all of your valves, connectors, joints, seals, and feed-throughs away from hot areas in the test vessel. 4/ Do some reading on handling hydrogen. Hot pressurised hydrogen is dangerous - exceptionally flammable and explosive. Best to do experimenting in covered outdoors area where hydrogen can't accumulate, and use small tubes that don't permit too much flow. Keep hydrogen tank under cover and outside. 5/ Calorimetry is hard. It takes a lot of detailed effort to get good results when you are looking for small gains - and you won't be able to tell if anything is happening without it. You need a data acquisition system with at least 3 thermocouples for this work. On 20 December 2011 06:53, Peter Brosnan ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Thanks Ron and Hoyt . I appreciate your help and Yes after phone calls , Hydrogen tank $90 at 2000 psi Have to rent the tank and ordering Regulator as we speak Can buy a Vacum pump 1.5 cfm $90 or 6.0 cfm $150 Anybody understand if the 1.5 would be enough ? Intend to follow Phens formula first Anybody here experimented with what he stated ? Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:18:38 -0700 From: prot...@frii.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com I think you can buy it in a pressurized tank with a regulator from gas suppliers. On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:53 AM +1000 Peter Brosnan ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Guys , Pete from Australia here , I just found your site and joined up . I got interested in Phen as well Phen talks about The chamber is pressurized with hydrogen to 2000 psi and heated to 200 C I'm trying replicate this stuff, got some of the gear here already , the rest is coming . The Hurdle is how do I pressureize my H2 at 2000 psi . Most of the Gas compressor I've seen are $5000 + ( To rich for my blood ) One guy I read adapted his frigeration compressor for 600 psi Any ideas guys Thanks Pete __ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:05:44 -0200 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Private information about Rossi was the Ampernergo tests described by McKubre From: besantos1...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Yugo... must be serbian! (or croatian...slovenian...macedonian...) Just kidding. :-) No matter what, I like your skepticism. Even though, to me, it seems to be a lot of evidences pro-CF, it helps keeping our feet on the ground. 2011/12/19 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, I'm not sure what is the ethnic origin of Mary. Sorry, not Italian.
[Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Defkalion asked an independent expert to contact me and discuss some aspects of the company and their technology. This person is well known to me and I trust him completely. For the time being he asks to remain anonymous, for good reasons. The expert has examined the machines and discussed their business plans. He has made an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days. He cannot publish that evaluation now, but he was free to summarize it to me. He did not go into much technical detail because I prefer not to hear confidential information. He gave me a broad summary; the sort of thing a company would present at a trade show. Let me summarize what he said: The engineering and business operations at Defkalion are highly promising. These people are highly professional. Their science and engineering are first rate. Their laboratory equipment is first rate. Their upcoming products are revolutionary. They are the best LENR implementations ever produced. The expert says the prototype products are consistent with the specifications described in the web site. No tests were done by this observer. This is what engineers call a site visit in anticipation of doing a test. Defkalion is working to resolve internal business matters such as the misunderstandings with board members. They ask for our patience on this matter. Back to my comments -- Defkalion faces complex challenges. Like any start-up business, they have to maintain a high level of secrecy. In my opinion they went a little too far on that in recent weeks. Starting a company is an arduous task. It is hardest thing I ever did in my life. You always make mistakes. The situation is fluid and confusing. Defkalion is not only starting a company, it is developing revolutionary technology, dealing with complex business arrangements, and dealing with Rossi, who is a difficult person to do business with. According to my contact, they are making a good faith effort to straighten out these problems. I am satisfied with his judgment. Of course I would like to know more about the technology, as would everyone else. We all would like to see an independent test. Defkalion understands that and will release additional technical information as soon as they can, but business priorities must dictate the pace. As you see, some of the statements here are hedged, such as prototype products are consistent with the specifications described in the web site. I hope this does not sound evasive. We only mean that a product under development is a moving target, so you cannot expect specifications to stay fully current. Please do not read anything more into it. This is an evaluation. It is a step along the way to an independent test. It is most welcome. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Horace, Calorimetry is done through temperature monitorring, simple on the equipment a bit more demanding on the experimentalist and analysis. In due time we will post more details on the analysis as a help. Device looks kinda small Yes and I put a lot effort in making it even smaller. The smaller the reactor is the less material (nickel powder, catalyst, hydrogen, etc) you will use, keeping the cost for operation down. Besides it will keep temperature control easier (this is a problem in Rossi's original E-Cat, thats why he moved to the flat-cat). It further will keep the power needs low so we can get a low power, hence cheaper, power supply. Finally, it adds to the safety, as a little bit of hydrogen is less dangerous than a lot of it. Why would you want a big one? Cheers, Bastiaan On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: Potentially a good idea for a non-profit, especially if donations can drive the price down well below cost. That said, where is the calorimeter? Also, the device looks too small. This looks more like a Rossi replicator idea than a general purpose LENR investigation device. That seems a bit premature, given the publicly released evidence provided by Rossi thus far is so lacking scientifically. If Rossi has a successful venture this research might be moot, given the way multi-year billion dollar budgets that likely will quickly develop. If Rossi is not successful, this approach might be barking up the wrong tree. On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:02 PM, Bastiaan Bergman wrote: Hi group, I'm excited to announce our newly formed non-profit organization to the advancement of cold fusion. We are planning an open catalyst project geared towards finding the secret catalyst needed to achieve nuclear fusion in the solid state. The plan is to use the power of the crowd to search and try the many different possibilities in a highly paralleled and fast way. By installing many many reactor-calorimeters in labs of participating scientist all over the world and by sharing all data in a structured way we envision an enormous advantage compared to the individual approach. For this purpose I designed a special reactor-calorimeter called the *Peer Pressure*, it is a simple reactor with extended data logging and autonomous Internet connectivity. Individual scientists can purchase a reactor, hook it up directly to the Internet through its TCP/IP connection, start testing materials and share results. The reactor is designed with a minimum of presumptions about the detailed working of cold fusion reactions and providing maximum versatility for the experimentalist. Please have a look at the Peer Pressure and let me know what you think of it, can you use it? Suggestions for improvement? http://www.fusioncatalyst.org/open-catalyst/peer-pressure/ Cheers, Bastiaan. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Yes, we know this all. Serious companies do always forward this stuff anonymously on lists like Vortex L. Ok, sometimes they use better more prominent channels like PESWIKI or Freeenenergytruth. This is a definitive proof of reliability and truth. Thank you very much!
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Their upcoming products are revolutionary. They are the best LENR implementations ever produced. The expert says the prototype products are consistent with the specifications described in the web site. No tests were done by this observer. This is what engineers call a site visit in anticipation of doing a test. Interesting. But if he didn't do any tests, how does your observer know that the prototype products are consistent with anything? Is he relying on what Defkalion TOLD him? What they said? Any idea WHEN your consultant might do some tests? How can an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days NOT involve doing tests? What did they do all day for several days? Talk about the great future of products that have never been shown, tested or proven? What matters at this stage other than tests? I have never heard of an event such as you seem to be describing being called an evaluation.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On 2011-12-20 21:09, Jed Rothwell wrote: The expert has examined the machines and discussed their business plans. He has made an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days. He Do you mean that this person actually went there an examined the machines in person? Sorry if I'm being picky here. Just want to be 100% sure. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Hey Bastiaan, How to you remove the heat? Why don't you use a liquid coolant in a jacket surrounding the cell -- like Rossi seems to do? That would accomplish reasonably accurate calorimetry for you automatically with nothing more than a flow meter, two thermometers, a known electrical power source.for calibration, and a computer/data logger. All of those are cheap and easy these days. If you don't want to complicate the system, you don't need the coolant jacket -- you can run the device in a well insulated water bath. Calibration will compensate for any losses from the bath.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Defkalion is not only starting a company, it is developing revolutionary technology, dealing with complex business arrangements, and dealing with Rossi, who is a difficult person to do business with. So they *are* dealing with Rossi still? I wonder in what way? T
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Materials and material preparation are the key to cold fusion. The hardest part by far. You cannot use just any Ni material. Exactly! That is why we want to engage the crowd! Because finding exactly the right stuff may be a daunting task. Moreover, even if you think you have found the right stuff you may in fact be wrong. e.g. the Patterson case, it worked then it didn't. Now we are building a database, if something works on and off we'll keep track of it. Maybe some day, some bright scientist sees the connection while slicing and dicing the database. More to the point, we do not know what Rossi's catalyst contains. I see no point to trying to replicate without the formula, True, Rossi has the secret, he found it and Rossi is our hero (mine at least). But he is not god, what he can find, we can! And I wouldn't be surprised if there were a zillion other materials that work just as well (or better). or with material from somewhere else, such as Ames N. L. Now you're getting there! You're following on this track, someone else follows-up on another. Maybe there is a theory that seems appealing, maybe you found a dusty paper explaining something? Maybe you're inspired by processes already happening in nature, maybe you stumbeld upon a somthing you now think might be explained with,.. C ..F... And everybody tries his own thing. Some don't work, some were stupid to begin with and some are going to work. We know that. Happy mailing! Bastiaan. On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 6:06 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: This looks more like a Rossi replicator idea than a general purpose LENR investigation device. That seems a bit premature, given the publicly released evidence provided by Rossi thus far is so lacking scientifically. More to the point, we do not know what Rossi's catalyst contains. I see no point to trying to replicate without the formula, or with material from somewhere else, such as Ames N. L. Materials and material preparation are the key to cold fusion. The hardest part by far. You cannot use just any Ni material. - Jed
[Vo]:Next Rossi customer update
Thomas Di Pietro December 20th, 2011 at 1:22 PM December 20th, 2011 at 1:22 PM Dear Engineer Rossi [ google translate : ] A few days ago we confirmed that it sold another 1-megawatt plant to a U.S. customer who seem not to want to remain anonymous. As soon as the contract of sale was ready she would have revealed the name of the costumer. And 'possible to know at what point is this transaction? Thank you and best wishes endless! Andrea Rossi Andrea Rossi December 20th, 2011 at 1:36 PM December 20th, 2011 at 1:36 PM Dear Tommaso Di Pietro: I will give this information as soon as possible. It will be possible. Warm Regards, AR [ Coupled with Jed's report on Defkalion, could be a double-dose of news ] (lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat -- Hi, google!)
AW: Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
I#39;m a little shocked by this. It isn#39;t information nor opinion - more some kind of propaganda. You#39;ve heard from somebody you trust completely but can#39;t say who and that somebody shared an opinion with you based on Defkalion asking him/her to do so, right? Who is protecting who? And from what?
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On 11-12-20 03:09 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Defkalion asked an independent expert to contact me and discuss some aspects of the company and their technology. This person is well known to me and I trust him completely. For the time being he asks to remain anonymous, for good reasons. OK, so you cite someone you know, who is unnamed, who claims to have met someone he now knows, but whom you haven't met, and claims that that person conducted him around the site and showed him things. Well this is certainly a good FOAF story. A little more information would turn it into something more, of course. But that information isn't forthcoming. You're a good observer, Jed. Isn't it strange how you never get to observe anything in this saga? You just hear claims that other folks (who, your affirmations of trust aside, may or may not be good observers) got to observe stuff which they then can relate orally. The expert has examined the machines and discussed their business plans. He has made an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days. He cannot publish that evaluation now, but he was free to summarize it to me. He did not go into much technical detail because I prefer not to hear confidential information. He gave me a broad summary; the sort of thing a company would present at a trade show. Let me summarize what he said: The engineering and business operations at Defkalion are highly promising. These people are highly professional. Meaningless subjective statement. What's more, to the extent that it does mean anything, it's patently false, given the bizarre public statements they've made in response to their little problem with a board member. If these people are behaving in a highly professional way then I'm Bill Gates. Their science and engineering are first rate. Their laboratory equipment is first rate. First rate is an undefined token sequence. It's like good, or without sin. Without more context to qualify it, it carries no information. Their upcoming products are revolutionary. They are the best LENR implementations ever produced. The expert says the prototype products are consistent with the specifications described in the web site. Good. Nice. The prototypes (mockups?) apparently look pretty, and the paper specs look good. (So did the Batmobile I saw at a car show some years back. It had great specs, too, by the way.) But do they work? Do they do anything at all? This statement says *nothing* about that. No tests were done by this observer. This is what engineers call a site visit in anticipation of doing a test. OK, no data. Defkalion is working to resolve internal business matters such as the misunderstandings with board members. They ask for our patience on this matter. Right, they've been accused of doing everything with smoke and mirrors, and the accusation came from someone who should know as much about what's really going on as anyone we've heard from, and they haven't even so much as denied it in any clear way, and they certainly haven't provided any actual evidence to the contrary.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Any idea WHEN your consultant might do some tests? Soon, I hope. How can an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days NOT involve doing tests? It is what engineers call a site visit meaning a formal evaluation or planning session made in preparation for doing tests. Perhaps I did not make that clear. What did they do all day for several days? Talk about the great future of products that have never been shown, tested or proven? He examined the machines, the laboratory equipment, their data, and their detailed specifications, and he wrote a formal document spelling out proposed tests, in preparation for doing a comprehensive test with outside equipment, and outside experts. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
A site evaluation is something like what Matts Lewan did? 2011/12/20 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Any idea WHEN your consultant might do some tests? Soon, I hope. How can an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days NOT involve doing tests? It is what engineers call a site visit meaning a formal evaluation or planning session made in preparation for doing tests. Perhaps I did not make that clear. What did they do all day for several days? Talk about the great future of products that have never been shown, tested or proven? He examined the machines, the laboratory equipment, their data, and their detailed specifications, and he wrote a formal document spelling out proposed tests, in preparation for doing a comprehensive test with outside equipment, and outside experts. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
There is nothing new in MOST of the posts in this string. Very true. as I've been harping on, to everyone, for several weeks now, and it has gotten so bad that even the mild-mannered Horace has issued a plea to move the noise to vortexB. Did you not see his posting? Horace is probably the most patient person on this forum, so when Horace complains, it's gotten pretty bad. This forum is NOT a substitute for the 'comment' section of some website. It is specifically meant to discuss the technical merits of various fringe claims. this has been explained by others besides me. And many are repetitive especially Wuller's. This is laughable. Mary, you have 638 posts since 11/10, Mr. Wuller (as either Randy or Ransom) has only 7! That's an exclamation point, not a '1' (one) after the 7; i.e., less than ten. Only the mind of a patho-skeptic could think that the repetition that might occur in 7 posts can even be compared to what has occurred in 638 posts. Therefore I think you are singling out my posts for your complaints simply because you disagree with my views. Couldn't be further from the truth; when you have brought up something NEW, which has only been a few times out of 638, I have PUBLICLY APPLAUDED it, and thanked you. The OBVIOUS reason why I single your posts out is exactly what I stated, which is BACKED UP BY FACT AND NUMBERS! You waste more bandwidth, BY FAR, than anyone else. Period. There is very LITTLE signal in your postings, which is CONTRARY to the very spirit of this forum, which has also been explained several times. In any case, I was responding to someone who obviously does not see the pattern and I was trying to make it clear to that party It's NOT the purpose of this forum to make sure that no one goes away with a particular view. Don't waste ALL other's time by explaining your side to all the newbies. Send them a personal email and spare the rest of us the wasted time. If you feel compelled to REPEAT your position, then respond to new people who just came in on the forum as follows: - There is disagreement as to issue. Please read the archives to bring yourself up to speed. - That's it; that's all that is needed. If you're so conceited that you want to make sure they see YOUR views/analysis, then YOU take the time to get the URLs and put them in your reply. Don't make ALL others have to take time to determine if there's anything NEW in your posting. I don't think that's too much to ask. it's a reasonable request, and in compliance with the guidelines set-up by the founder/host of this forum. -Mark From: Mary Yugo [mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Nothing new in Mary's post. as USUAL. The same old very tired speculations which PROVE nothing. Same waste of bandwidth. Maybe the pattern I pointed out is not news but there is no speculation in my post. It's simply observation and facts. Perhaps you are confusing it with some other. In any case, I was responding to someone who obviously does not see the pattern and I was trying to make it clear to that party. There is nothing new in MOST of the posts in this string. And many are repetitive especially Wuller's. But you don't object to those or any repetition which promotes or favors Rossi and Defkalion. Therefore I think you are singling out my posts for your complaints simply because you disagree with my views. I suggest that if you have some points to make which counter mine that you simply make them.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On 11-12-20 03:42 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com mailto:maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Any idea WHEN your consultant might do some tests? Soon, I hope. How can an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days NOT involve doing tests? It is what engineers call a site visit meaning a formal evaluation or planning session made in preparation for doing tests. Perhaps I did not make that clear. What did they do all day for several days? Talk about the great future of products that have never been shown, tested or proven? He examined the machines, the laboratory equipment, their data, and their detailed specifications, and he wrote a formal document spelling out proposed tests, in preparation for doing a comprehensive test with outside equipment, and outside experts. So somebody unnamed spent an unclear amount of time and saw something which isn't described and heard from someone else unnamed what it would do if it were doing it, but it wasn't. Maybe it will next time. He (unnamed party #1) says he was impressed by whatever it was. Not exactly airtight.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: OK, so you cite someone you know, who is unnamed, who claims to have met someone he now knows, but whom you haven't met . . . How do you know who I have met, and not met? The engineering and business operations at Defkalion are highly promising. These people are highly professional. Meaningless subjective statement. Not in my opinion, but in any case, that is what he said. If these people are behaving in a highly professional way then I'm Bill Gates. You would be surprised at how unprofessional Bill Gates was in some instances. I know people who dealt with him. He is not always what I would call a smooth, consummate professional. Not as bad as Steve Jobs or Howard Hughes, but he has had his moments. Their science and engineering are first rate. Their laboratory equipment is first rate. First rate is an undefined token sequence. It's like good, or without sin. Without more context to qualify it, it carries no information. Look here: You do not put any stock in this report. You do not find anything of value in it. Fine. Good. We get it. Stop kvetching. Make you point and move on -- all of you. I would *never* suggest that this resolves all issues, or that this is functionally equivalent to an independent engineering evaluation. However, this is reassuring. This expert was there performing the first step in an independent engineering evaluation. I do not mean they batted around the idea. I mean he went there specifically to prepare a formal document describing the tests they plan do. It is progress toward what we are all waiting for. Perhaps something will prevent him from following through. Perhaps there will be no test. Who knows; maybe they were playing for time or dicking around. That seems unlikely to me. I doubt they would have their staff spent several days showing him equipment and data as part of a hoax. I do not think they would have a state of the art fully equipped lab if this were a hoax. Okay, stranger things have happened, but I feel less apprehensive. I hope you too feel a little more confident about the claims. I wish I could say more to bolster confidence, but I cannot relate any more details at this time. Sorry. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
In this case we have to give Jed some slack. What he described is what he was told by a persons he trusts as competent. And what Jed was told is that an initial fist visit was done and everything seems to be ok and as advertised. It is just an initial, first inspection in preparation for a more throughout testing. This is more than what we had before where we were not even sure there was a facility at all. It is not a validation of anything but a promise that a validation is planned. That is all. We will have to wait for the real testing of course. The problem with all these e-cat stories is that promises are made all the time and then regularly broken. Based on what we have experienced so far I make a prediction that also this promise will be broken. I would be glad to be wrong. Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Any idea WHEN your consultant might do some tests? Soon, I hope. How can an independent in-depth evaluation lasting several days NOT involve doing tests? It is what engineers call a site visit meaning a formal evaluation or planning session made in preparation for doing tests. Perhaps I did not make that clear. What did they do all day for several days? Talk about the great future of products that have never been shown, tested or proven? He examined the machines, the laboratory equipment, their data, and their detailed specifications, and he wrote a formal document spelling out proposed tests, in preparation for doing a comprehensive test with outside equipment, and outside experts. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
From Mr. Lawrence, ... Good. Nice. The prototypes (mockups?) apparently look pretty, and the paper specs look good. (So did the Batmobile I saw at a car show some years back. It had great specs, too, by the way.) But do they work? Do they do anything at all? This statement says *nothing* about that. Obviously, Mr. Lawrence is expressing reservations. It seems to me that expressing doubt under the current circumstances is a perfectly reasonable conclusion, considering all the obfuscation going on. As for me, there comes a time when the curious have no choice but to either trust (or NOT trust) the judgment of another individual. In this case, the individual I am referring to is Jed Rothwell. For individuals like MY, or perhaps even Mr. Cude, who are still relatively new to Vortex... if such individuals have not been around long enough to acquire a decent assessment of Mr. Rothwell's desire to not be bamboozled by claims of here-say, dismissing Mr. Rothwell's current assessment is perfectly understandable. OTOH, if one has acquired a few years of experience listening to Mr. Rothwell rant on about this or that issue, all I can say is that I've learned to trust Jed's judgment on a number of things. I may occasionally disagree with the fiddledebits, but that does not mean I don't trust Jed's sincerity to get and disseminate the facts as clearly as he can. Therefore, under the circumstances, I guess my impression of DGT has gone up a few more notches. I also hope Stremmenos, Rossi, and DGT can eventually work out their disagreements. Of course, I'm always free to change my assessment of the principal actors of this fascinating drama should more facts surface warranting a change. We should always be free to change our assessment opinions. None of us should feel honor-bound by ego or stubbornness to go down with the sinking ship. Thanks for the update and your personal assessment, Jed. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: He (unnamed party #1) says he was impressed by whatever it was. Not exactly airtight. It was not intended to be airtight. I think I made that clear, with carefully hedged statements. If I thought it was airtight, I would have said so. If the expert had considered it airtight, he would have said so, and I would have reported his words. We went over those statements carefully to ensure they do are not more confident than is warranted. This is a progress report. It is a step in the right direction. If you do not wish to hear about these tests until they are completed, you should skip reading this thread. Defkalion said they plan to have independent tests. This is evidence that they mean what they say. Take it or leave it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
I think that Defkalion's much higher quality engineering and design than Rossi's is obvious from everything they have published till now on the website. The Press Conference was also well organized and lead. Rossi has abandoned them but Defkalion has worked out a survival solution. And hopefully more than that. Peter On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: OK, so you cite someone you know, who is unnamed, who claims to have met someone he now knows, but whom you haven't met . . . How do you know who I have met, and not met? The engineering and business operations at Defkalion are highly promising. These people are highly professional. Meaningless subjective statement. Not in my opinion, but in any case, that is what he said. If these people are behaving in a highly professional way then I'm Bill Gates. You would be surprised at how unprofessional Bill Gates was in some instances. I know people who dealt with him. He is not always what I would call a smooth, consummate professional. Not as bad as Steve Jobs or Howard Hughes, but he has had his moments. Their science and engineering are first rate. Their laboratory equipment is first rate. First rate is an undefined token sequence. It's like good, or without sin. Without more context to qualify it, it carries no information. Look here: You do not put any stock in this report. You do not find anything of value in it. Fine. Good. We get it. Stop kvetching. Make you point and move on -- all of you. I would *never* suggest that this resolves all issues, or that this is functionally equivalent to an independent engineering evaluation. However, this is reassuring. This expert was there performing the first step in an independent engineering evaluation. I do not mean they batted around the idea. I mean he went there specifically to prepare a formal document describing the tests they plan do. It is progress toward what we are all waiting for. Perhaps something will prevent him from following through. Perhaps there will be no test. Who knows; maybe they were playing for time or dicking around. That seems unlikely to me. I doubt they would have their staff spent several days showing him equipment and data as part of a hoax. I do not think they would have a state of the art fully equipped lab if this were a hoax. Okay, stranger things have happened, but I feel less apprehensive. I hope you too feel a little more confident about the claims. I wish I could say more to bolster confidence, but I cannot relate any more details at this time. Sorry. - Jed -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On 11-12-20 04:02 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com mailto:sa...@pobox.com wrote: OK, so you cite someone you know, who is unnamed, who claims to have met someone he now knows, but whom you haven't met . . . How do you know who I have met, and not met? I don't. Obviously. However, if you've actually met the folks at Defkalion you haven't mentioned it, and since you live about 6,000 miles from them it seems likely that you haven't. But perhaps you have, eh? So, have you? Have you met the engineers at the Defkalion factory? The engineering and business operations at Defkalion are highly promising. These people are highly professional. Meaningless subjective statement. Not in my opinion, but in any case, that is what he said. If these people are behaving in a highly professional way then I'm Bill Gates. You would be surprised at how unprofessional Bill Gates was in some instances. I'd be even more surprised to find out I'm him. Their science and engineering are first rate. Their laboratory equipment is first rate. First rate is an undefined token sequence. It's like good, or without sin. Without more context to qualify it, it carries no information. Look here: You do not put any stock in this report. You do not find anything of value in it. Fine. Good. We get it. Stop kvetching. Make you point and move on -- all of you. There's just one of me, and that's exactly what I was doing here: Making my point. Is there a problem with that? I would _never_ suggest that this resolves all issues, or that this is functionally equivalent to an independent engineering evaluation. However, this is reassuring. If he actually does the tests, that will be reassuring. In the mean time there is nothing in what you've said that indicates he saw anything more than mockups, so no, I don't agree that it's particularly reassuring. The Batmobile I saw was very solid, very reassuring, if I was looking for evidence that it was real. And it surely was consistent with its extremely impressive specs. (Only hitch is, I never saw it drive anywhere.)
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Akira Shirakawa wrote: Do you mean that this person actually went there an examined the machines in person? Sorry if I'm being picky here. Just want to be 100% sure. Yup, that's what I mean. Also tons of data from the machines. The data was collected by Defkalion's equipment. The next step is collect similar data with independent test equipment. Data is more fun than machines. If I were there I would probably turn my back to the machine and spend the whole time poring over data. That's what programmers do. I spent two weeks at Mizuno's lab doing that. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
[This may be duplicated] Akira Shirakawa wrote: Do you mean that this person actually went there an examined the machines in person? Sorry if I'm being picky here. Just want to be 100% sure. Yup, that's what I mean. Also tons of data from the machines. The data was collected by Defkalion's equipment. The next step is collect similar data with independent test equipment. Data is more fun than machines. If I were there I would probably turn my back to the machine and spend the whole time poring over data. That's what programmers do. I spent two weeks at Mizuno's lab doing that. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Am 20.12.2011 22:02, schrieb Jed Rothwell: Stephen A. Lawrencesa...@pobox.com wrote: OK, so you cite someone you know, who is unnamed, who claims to have met someone he now knows, but whom you haven't met . . . How do you know who I have met, and not met? The engineering and business operations at Defkalion are highly promising. These people are highly professional. Meaningless subjective statement. Not in my opinion, but in any case, that is what he said. So, if I understand you right, you are completely drunken as I am admittedly, andf you are unwilling and unable to harden your claims? Even a drunken gaúy cant beleive this. Peter
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
Mary, I'm looking into cooling, it won't be finished for the first version though. You can't just stick the reactor in a bath as the top and bottem of the reactor have things (eg electrical wires) sticking out from them. My plan is to use a 'springy' kind of copper tube coil, that sids around the middle of the reactor. Haven't looked into 'springy' copper tube though,.. suggestions are welcome. Specific suggestions for a pump, flowmeter and water temperature sensors are welcome too. As long as we don't attain tremendous fusion power I think cooling at the air will be sufficient. Cheers, Bastiaan. On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Bastiaan, How to you remove the heat? Why don't you use a liquid coolant in a jacket surrounding the cell -- like Rossi seems to do? That would accomplish reasonably accurate calorimetry for you automatically with nothing more than a flow meter, two thermometers, a known electrical power source.for calibration, and a computer/data logger. All of those are cheap and easy these days. If you don't want to complicate the system, you don't need the coolant jacket -- you can run the device in a well insulated water bath. Calibration will compensate for any losses from the bath.
Re: [Vo]:Private information about Rossi was the Ampernergo tests described by McKubre
On 11-12-19 09:14 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: From Susan Jed, How we call inidipendent the tests made by Ampenergo ? Do we have something else excepts a bunch of words ? Do you know who they are ? These guys are all friends or in someway related to Rossi. Somewhere there is the list and where thy come from (Leonardo, LTI..). I wouldn't be surprised also that some of them are involved in the TEG story. Sorry but in my world independent test has a different meaning. IOW, you don't trust individuals like McKubre. McKubre didn't test anything of Rossi's. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please!) He knows someone who did. This is an important distinction. Anyone who's read any of McKubre's papers in lenr-canr should be impressed by his technical expertise, IMHO. (If McKubre says he replicated Rossi's E-Cat and got a COP of 6, then that about wraps it up and we can all switch to debating how soon to start shorting utility stocks.) However, McKubre's technical expertise doesn't necessarily translate into good personal judgment of someone else's expertise to judge yet another person's performance when that other person may be trying to cheat. (And by the way sorry about misspelling his name all over the place in earlier posts.)
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Akira Shirakawa wrote: Do you mean that this person actually went there an examined the machines in person? Sorry if I'm being picky here. Just want to be 100% sure. Yup, that's what I mean. Also tons of data from the machines. The data was collected by Defkalion's equipment. The next step is collect similar data with independent test equipment. Data is more fun than machines. If I were there I would probably turn my back to the machine and spend the whole time poring over data. That's what programmers do. I spent two weeks at Mizuno's lab doing that. I don't know. All the equivocation and pussy footing about is maddening. Why doesn't the guy just say: I saw what appeared to be a working fusion reactor. I saw data being taken and I examined the transducers and readouts and they seemed legitimate. I looked over the data and it strongly indicated that the device was making at least 10x the input power (or better yet, was running without input power). I checked for and did not see anything to suggest faking or fraud. We did a calibration run and the resulting data supported proper functioning of the measuring equipment. The longest test I saw was four hours but the data collected and submitted for my review suggested that the machine had been running for a week without interruption and with no change in operating parameters. The limitations of these observations are that I could not use my own measuring equipment. Defkalion has a large, well equipped laboratory with a substantial number of busy technicians and researchers. Those I talked to seemed knowledgeable and competent. Next door to the lab is a large factory under construction that appears compatible with a manufacturing plant for thermal generator devices. Within the lab area, there was lots of late model test equipment, a high vacuum facility, and a well equipped large stock room. There. Was that so difficult or revealing of secrets? What? Nobody speaks English clearly any more? We need bureaucratese equivocations instead?
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Obviously, Mr. Lawrence is expressing reservations. It seems to me that expressing doubt under the current circumstances is a perfectly reasonable conclusion, considering all the obfuscation going on. Sure. I still have reservations. I think I made that clear. Defkalion's previous answers to me in their forum about Stremmenos are still weird. I can't tell if they are obfuscation or confusion. They are not satisfactory. But who cares about their their problem with their Board of Directors? Or with Rossi? The technology is what matters! An independent test is what matters. There is often a lot sturm und drang in a start up company. People forget about it a few years later. Business history books don't discuss it. They make the success seem inevitable. As for me, there comes a time when the curious have no choice but to either trust (or NOT trust) the judgment of another individual. In this case, the individual I am referring to is Jed Rothwell. In this case I am not asking you to trust much. This is not exactly definitive news. It is just an indication that Defkalion means what they say, and they really are trying to get tests underway. It will be a heck of a lot more interesting when the tests actually happen -- if they happen. We all know that Defkalion is behind their originally announced schedule. It sounds like their RD is difficult and it is taking longer than expected. Anyone who has been involved in RD would expect that. It takes twice as long and it costs 10 times more than planned. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:FusionCatalyst.org
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Bastiaan Bergman bastiaan.berg...@gmail.com wrote: Mary, I'm looking into cooling, it won't be finished for the first version though. You can't just stick the reactor in a bath as the top and bottem of the reactor have things (eg electrical wires) sticking out from them. My plan is to use a 'springy' kind of copper tube coil, that sids around the middle of the reactor. Haven't looked into 'springy' copper tube though,.. suggestions are welcome. Specific suggestions for a pump, flowmeter and water temperature sensors are welcome too. As long as we don't attain tremendous fusion power I think cooling at the air will be sufficient. Cheers, Bastiaan. If you're going to air cool, you may wish to supplement your temperature measurements for calorimetry with heat flux measurements. Heat flux transducers, already calibrated, are commercially available (Google is your friend). Some are not terribly expensive. In a pinch, you can reverse a Peltier (thermoelectric junction) cooling plate in the sense that if you have a heat flux through it, it will give an output millivolt signal which is roughly linear with the heat flux. However, those are rather insensitive. But they are cheap. You can also make a Seebeck effect envelope calorimeter using the method Storms used. It's tedious but cheap. If you plan on doing that, either Jed or I can find you the instructions on line. You have to seal your top and bottom anyway and all sorts of cheap underwater electrical connectors are available commercially so the idea of the water bath is still something you may wish to consider. Bottom line: I think if you have continuous calorimetry sensor output recording of some type, you will have a better idea more easily and faster if you find something that works well. Otherwise, it's easy to fool yourself with temperature measurements on or in an uninsulated device in a changing environment. Also: if you get real fusion, use caution. Lots of it. Heating fluids and gas in a closed vessel can result in what amounts to a pipe bomb with shrapnel. Fusion, in theory, can make lots of power very fast in a very small volume from which heat can not escape well. People have been killed with in pipe experiments of various types, many times in the past. Don't make an ash out of yourself.
Re: [Vo]:Private information about Rossi was the Ampernergo tests described by McKubre
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: McKubre didn't test anything of Rossi's. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please!) He knows someone who did. This is an important distinction. That is correct. That is what he said during his lecture, which is linked here: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm I think that comment was in section 6. He meant this person attended the AmpEnerco tests, such as the one in McKube's slide #32: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHwhathappen.pdf - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: We all know that Defkalion is behind their originally announced schedule. It sounds like their RD is difficult and it is taking longer than expected. Anyone who has been involved in RD would expect that. It takes twice as long and it costs 10 times more than planned. Very true but all the more reason to avoid the extravagant claims and bluster which was so obvious in earlier postings by Defkalion to their forum -- around June of this year. Perhaps you missed those? Things like having dozens of reactors under test, varying outputs up to 35kW, submissions to the Greek authorities for tests already underway and to be completed Q4, and on and on -- easy to review on the old part of their forum. Hardly an expectation of delays! Are they telling the truth now and were they lying then? Or what?
Re: [Vo]:Next Rossi customer update
Could it be Black Light Power? -Original Message- From: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2011 10:39 am Subject: [Vo]:Next Rossi customer update Thomas Di Pietro December 20th, 2011 at 1:22 PMDecember 20th, 2011 at 1:22 PM Dear Engineer Rossi [ google translate : ] A few days ago we confirmed that it sold another 1-megawatt plantto a U.S. customer who seem not to want to remain anonymous. As soon as the contract of sale was ready she would have revealed thename of the costumer. And 'possible to know at what point is this transaction? Thank you and best wishes endless! Andrea Rossi Andrea Rossi December 20th, 2011 at 1:36 PMDecember 20th, 2011 at 1:36 PM Dear Tommaso Di Pietro: I will give this information as soon as possible. It will bepossible. Warm Regards, AR [ Coupled with Jed's report on Defkalion, could be a double-dose of news] (lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat -- Hi,google!)
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On 11-12-20 04:53 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: We all know that Defkalion is behind their originally announced schedule. It sounds like their RD is difficult and it is taking longer than expected. Anyone who has been involved in RD would expect that. It takes twice as long and it costs 10 times more than planned. Yup. And sometimes, as we all know, when it's time for a demonstration and the thing still doesn't work, there's a temptation to do a bit of an end run: http://articles.latimes.com/1985-12-13/business/fi-16784_1_indictment Paradyne eventually delivered something, and so they didn't all go to jail, they just got their knuckles rapped. The problem in Rossi's case, and DGT's case, is that, if either or both of them have been cheating a bit, then there may be no chance at all that they can ever deliver. In short, if Rossi's not on the up and up, then the whole approach may be a dead end. That's because nobody else has demonstrated usable (that's **usable**) amounts of energy, on demand, from a nickel/light-hydrogen cell. The only evidence that this is a solid path forward comes from Rossi. In Edison's case, light from a hot wire, on demand, had been demonstrated. Longevity and fragility were major problems, but whether the basic process would work was absolutely not in question. In the case of the Wrights, nobody who had every watched a large bird gliding through the air should have doubted that fixed wing flight was possible. Again, in Rossi's case, there is no evidence at all that his device can be made to work at useful energy levels ... except the evidence which comes from Rossi himself.
Re: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com
No, don't have access to a workshop at the moment (I'm on wrong side of the planet). Besides which I get the feeling that it is very very difficult to do material processing and calorimetry to the standards required to actually learn anything without access to a good materials lab and a well equipped calorimetry station. I do have recent experience of small scale high pressure hot hydrogen systems (200bar 800°C Stirling engines) which is why I am so wary. The test fixtures and instrumentation were expensive and needed a lot of attention to detail, it is a tricky field for casual amateurs to work in and does not reward risk takers or improvised fixes. On 20 December 2011 20:01, Peter B ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Thanks Robert I appreciate your advice Are you building ? Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:23:20 + Subject: Re: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Things to consider: 1/ Probably want to make sure that the hydrogen you are being supplied is a reasonably high purity 'technical' grade. 2/ Most researchers use multi-stage vacuum pumps to achieve high vacuum, you probably want to buy a 2-stage vacuum pump such as used by HVAC technicians (you need high vacuum to evaporate and remove some of the contaminants you are trying to remove). 3/ Keep all of your valves, connectors, joints, seals, and feed-throughs away from hot areas in the test vessel. 4/ Do some reading on handling hydrogen. Hot pressurised hydrogen is dangerous - exceptionally flammable and explosive. Best to do experimenting in covered outdoors area where hydrogen can't accumulate, and use small tubes that don't permit too much flow. Keep hydrogen tank under cover and outside. 5/ Calorimetry is hard. It takes a lot of detailed effort to get good results when you are looking for small gains - and you won't be able to tell if anything is happening without it. You need a data acquisition system with at least 3 thermocouples for this work. On 20 December 2011 06:53, Peter Brosnan ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Thanks Ron and Hoyt . I appreciate your help and Yes after phone calls , Hydrogen tank $90 at 2000 psi Have to rent the tank and ordering Regulator as we speak Can buy a Vacum pump 1.5 cfm $90 or 6.0 cfm $150 Anybody understand if the 1.5 would be enough ? Intend to follow Phens formula first Anybody here experimented with what he stated ? Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 22:18:38 -0700 From: prot...@frii.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Phen formula from ecatbuilder.com I think you can buy it in a pressurized tank with a regulator from gas suppliers. On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:53 AM +1000 Peter Brosnan ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Guys , Pete from Australia here , I just found your site and joined up . I got interested in Phen as well Phen talks about The chamber is pressurized with hydrogen to 2000 psi and heated to 200 C I'm trying replicate this stuff, got some of the gear here already , the rest is coming . The Hurdle is how do I pressureize my H2 at 2000 psi . Most of the Gas compressor I've seen are $5000 + ( To rich for my blood ) One guy I read adapted his frigeration compressor for 600 psi Any ideas guys Thanks Pete __ Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:05:44 -0200 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Private information about Rossi was the Ampernergo tests described by McKubre From: besantos1...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Yugo... must be serbian! (or croatian...slovenian...macedonian...) Just kidding. :-) No matter what, I like your skepticism. Even though, to me, it seems to be a lot of evidences pro-CF, it helps keeping our feet on the ground. 2011/12/19 Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, I'm not sure what is the ethnic origin of Mary. Sorry, not Italian.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Again, in Rossi's case, there is no evidence at all that his device can be made to work at useful energy levels ... except the evidence which comes from Rossi himself. I guess there is no evidence if you cover your eyes and your ears and yell nya, nya, I can't hear you!! like a 5-year-old. There is plenty of evidence if you look up Ni-H experiments at LENR-CANR.org. There is a *mountain* of evidence if you look up Pd and Ti as well. I am assuming nature is unified and the phenomenon is fundamentally the same in all metal hydrides. The conservation of miracles as Mike calls it. What a great name! I do not know why the heck anyone feels that a watt level reaction in the laboratory is not supporting evidence for a reaction with the same characteristics at the kilowatt level with 1000 times more material. Of all the various skeptical arguments I've heard this one is among the most untenable. Have you never read anything about the history of science and technology?!? Have you never heard of scaling up. The whole point of cold fusion research from day one has been to scale up to a commercially useful level of heat. - Jed
[Vo]:OT: resonance: music of the goblets...
http://youtu.be/QdoTdG_VNV4 Harry
Re: [Vo]:Next Rossi customer update
At 02:07 PM 12/20/2011, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: Could it be Black Light Power? Hmmm ... they're in New Jersey, so it qualifies as North East. But I think Rossi would regard them as a snake/competitor.
Re: [Vo]:Next Rossi customer update
Could it be Black Light Power? Hmmm ... they're in New Jersey, so it qualifies as North East. But I think Rossi would regard them as a snake/competitor. Hah! Great speculation. I wish BLP *would* find a way to acquire one of Rossi's contraptions. Alas, me thinks this would be too much of a hot potato for BLP to handle. Oh, how I wish I will eventually be proven wrong on such speculation. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR Theory Papers
I don't remember seeing this : http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/12/16/another-set-of-slides-from-sept-22-nasa-lenr-innovation-forum/ Fralick Slides http://newenergytimes.com/v2/government/NASA/20111209NASA-Fralick-GRC-LENR-Workshop.pdf Slide 14 has a nice summary of theories (transcribed by hand) -- each with a little diagram Electron Screening (Parmenter and Lamb) Band States (Chubb Chubb) Shrunken Hydrogen (Maly, Vaura Mills) Ultra-Low Momentum Neutrons (Widom and Larsen) [ I think his title's wrong ... WEAK force capture of heavy electron and proton, giving U-L-M-N ] Dislocation Loops (Hora and Miley) [ I didn't identify this as a variant in my list] Bose Einstein Condensates (Kim)
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
At 01:12 PM 12/20/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Take it or leave it. I'll take it ... thanks! Coincidentally, today Krivit comes out with : LENR Real; Rossi and Defkalion Dubious http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/12/20/lenr-real-rossi-and-defkalion-dubious/
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR Theory Papers
At 03:29 PM 12/20/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote: Ultra-Low Momentum Neutrons (Widom and Larsen) [ I think his title's wrong ... WEAK force capture of heavy electron and proton, giving U-L-M-N ] May BAD!!! That's the first few words from WL's title !
[Vo]:Supermags w/o Rare Earths
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-magnetic-breakthrough-significant.html Magnetic breakthrough may have significant pull December 20, 2011 Physics professor Don Heiman and graduate student-researcher Steven Bennett have designed a super-strong magnetic material that may revolutionize the production of magnets found in computers. (PhysOrg.com) -- Northeastern University researchers have designed a super-strong magnetic material that may revolutionize the production of magnets found in computers, mobile phones, electric cars and wind-powered generators. The findings — which dovetail with Northeastern’s focus on use-inspired research that solves global challenges in health, security and sustainability — will be published in an upcoming edition of the journal Applied Physics Letters. “State-of-the-art electric motors and generators contain highly coercive magnets that are based on rare-earth elements, but we have developed a new material with similar properties without those exotic elements,” said coauthor Don Heiman, a physics professor in the College of Science. Heiman’s work aligns with Northeastern’s existing expertise in this area. The university's Center for Microwave Magnetic Materials and Integrated Circuits, for example, works to develop next-generation microwave materials and device solutions for radar and wireless communication technologies for U.S. defense and commercial industries. For this study, the team of researchers, including undergraduates Tom Cardinal and Thomas Nummy and graduate student Steven Bennett, found that the compound manganese gallium can be synthesized on the nanoscale to produce a coercive field that rivals materials containing rare-earth elements, which are considerably more expensive to process and mine. The need to develop low-cost magnetic materials is at an all-time high. Last year, China, which has cornered the market on the supply of the rare earth elements, purposely reduced production by 40 percent to drive up prices throughout the rest of the world. As Heiman put it, “The government would be in a bind if it had to rely on China to produce hybrid cars and wind generators.” He presented the team’s research in November in Scottsdale, Ariz., at the 56th Annual Conference on Magnetism and Magnetic Materials. Representatives of Toyota, LG Electronics and hard-drive manufacturers Seagate and Hitachi Global were particularly interested in the findings. “It garnered a lot of interest,” Heiman said. He praised the contribution of the trio of student-researchers, whose lab work taught them how to approach scientific problems in new ways. “The goal is to get students in the lab as soon as possible,” Heiman explained. “In class, students work on problems with specific answers, but when you enter the real world, it’s not like that. end
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On 11-12-20 05:27 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com mailto:sa...@pobox.com wrote: Again, in Rossi's case, there is no evidence at all that his device can be made to work at useful energy levels ... except the evidence which comes from Rossi himself. I guess there is no evidence if you cover your eyes and your ears and yell nya, nya, I can't hear you!! like a 5-year-old. There is plenty of evidence if you look up Ni-H experiments at LENR-CANR.org. Oh? On-demand production of **useful** heat? From gas phase hydrogen on nickel, with nothing but roasting to trigger the reaction? Name a paper which shows that as a solid result. (You know your library a whole lot better than I do; you should be able to come up with one without much effort.) Just one. And please don't point me at papers about deuterium on palladium; that's not what Rossi uses. Of course, you could also just yell The effect is real so it can be made useful! over and over again, like a child trying to win an argument.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Oh? On-demand production of **useful** heat? From gas phase hydrogen on nickel, with nothing but roasting to trigger the reaction? By roasting I assume you mean gas loading followed by heat. Piantelli did that. All results are on demand. See Henry IV: Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? Of course, you could also just yell The effect is real so it can be made useful! over and over again, like a child trying to win an argument. But what is wrong with that?!? Nearly every effect discovered since 1700 has started off on a small scale, and was later scaled up: electricity, electromagnetism, radio waves, fission, lasers, transistors . . . Transistors have been scaled in both directions: up for power switching, and down for data. An effect is discovered at low level, often sporadic, in the laboratory. Gradually it is understood well enough to control. Then scaled up. That has been the pattern. Why do you insist it has not happened with cold fusion, or that it cannot happen? I do not understand what you insist, but you are ignoring history and common sense. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Very true but all the more reason to avoid the extravagant claims and bluster which was so obvious in earlier postings by Defkalion to their forum -- around June of this year. Perhaps you missed those? Things like having dozens of reactors under test, varying outputs up to 35kW, submissions to the Greek authorities for tests already underway and to be completed Q4, and on and on . . . How do you know these are extravagant claims? Do you have some inside information? Do you know someone who visited and saw no evidence for these things? If these claims were true then they were not bluster. We don't know yet. At least, I don't. If you do not have inside information, then you are making unfounded assertions about a company you know nothing about. Such assertions are not welcome here. It is fine to say I suppose these claims are bluster but unless you have evidence please refrain from asserting that as an unqualified fact. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: But what is wrong with that?!? Nearly every effect discovered since 1700 has started off on a small scale, and was later scaled up: electricity, electromagnetism, radio waves, fission, lasers, transistors . . . Transistors have been scaled in both directions: up for power switching, and down for data. An effect is discovered at low level, often sporadic, in the laboratory. Gradually it is understood well enough to control. Then scaled up. That has been the pattern. Why do you insist it has not happened with cold fusion, or that it cannot happen? I do not understand what you insist, but you are ignoring history and common sense. I don't think anyone is saying that. I think what is being said is that Defkalion and Rossi are *already* claiming a scaled up effect and then when confronted with demands to prove it, they become tangential and evasive instead of providing what should be easy to get, high quality evidence that anyone could believe.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Very true but all the more reason to avoid the extravagant claims and bluster which was so obvious in earlier postings by Defkalion to their forum -- around June of this year. Perhaps you missed those? Things like having dozens of reactors under test, varying outputs up to 35kW, submissions to the Greek authorities for tests already underway and to be completed Q4, and on and on . . . How do you know these are extravagant claims? Do you have some inside information? Do you know someone who visited and saw no evidence for these things? If these claims were true then they were not bluster. We don't know yet. At least, I don't. If you do not have inside information, then you are making unfounded assertions about a company you know nothing about. Such assertions are not welcome here. It is fine to say I suppose these claims are bluster but unless you have evidence please refrain from asserting that as an unqualified fact. I think you're being pedantic here. Of course I mean that they made the exorbitant claims without proper evidence, not that I have proof that the claims are false. The claims are incredible and extreme. There is absolutely no reason to believe them yet lots of people treat them as likely or even as facts. Claims of megawatt devices that will give free heat to the Police Academy of Xanthi (if there is such a thing), claims to being assured of making 300,000 (I forget the actual quantity) units of 5 to 35 kW Hyperions in 2012 for sale, claims to a factory, claims to all sorts of safeties and self destructs, claims to having given the Greek authorities devices to test -- I would define all of those as extravagant to the extreme considering that the company has never shown anything to anyone who can talk about it in public and that, to this point, includes your mysterious informant.
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
Tiresome accusations like this ought to be banned from this list. Have you ever once seen a paycheck cut for the job of Internet trolling? Really? Really? Because it sounds like an awesome part time job, frankly. On Dec 19, 2011, at 8:10, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Cude what does this have to do with FP having been replicated in many labs all over the world? You need to accept that the FPE is real and move on to working out why it happens. Oh BTW you just might apologize to FP for the treatment they received by you and your mates. Would you please disclose if your income / pay check depends on you not believing the FPE is real and / or working to trash anyone who does? I ask because all you apparently contribute to this list is trashing the FPE. On 12/19/2011 11:23 PM, Joshua Cude wrote: On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: He sure knew what he was getting into. Fleischmann wrote a lighthearted account of this, quoted in Beaudette's book. It starts off with Arrhenius in 1883. He was one of the most important electrochemists in history, like Faraday. He made a revolutionary discovery. As any student of history would predict, this led the academic authorities to kick him out of the university. He was vilified and ridiculed for years and years. Finally, long after, he won a Nobel prize. You mean like Einstein got kicked out of university? No, because his revolutionary ideas got him kicked *into* university. You mean like Planck's ideas got him kicked out of university? No, because they named one after him. etc. You can't just make shit up to please your audience. I'd like to know of a professor who got kicked out of university for a revolutionary idea. At least one that turned out to be right, and didn't have religious objectors. Because, contrary to your claim, Arrhenius does not provide an example. I admit, my source does not go beyond wikipedia, but according to it, his controversial ideas were presented in his doctoral thesis, so he didn't have a position to be kicked out of. And while there were local skeptics, his degree was granted, if only as 3rd class. Nevertheless, when the dissertation was sent to other European scholars, they came to Sweden trying to recruit him. Doesn't really sound much like cold fusion, does it? The Swedish Academy then awarded him a grant to study with the likes of Boltzmann and van 't Hoff. That doesn't sound like years and years of vilification does it? A few years after his graduation, he was *given* an appointment at the Stockholm university, and was a full professor/chair (rector) about a decade after his PhD. That doesn't sound much like ridicule, does it? It did take almost 20 years to recognize his work with a Nobel prize, but maybe the fact that the prize was not initiated until about 17 years after had something to do with that. He got the 3rd one in chemistry. He was on the Nobel committee from the beginning until his death, and it seems he was not a particularly nice guy himself, arranging awards for his friends, and attempting to deny them to his enemies. He also got involved in racial biology (eugenics) later in his life. That happens so often I am astounded anyone believes the myth that scientists welcome new ideas. Well, you would not be astounded if you actually paid attention to history, instead of twisting it to rationalize your fervent belief in cold fusion. Right about the same time as the CF announcement, high temperature superconductivity was discovered, and the Nobel prize was awarded -- now get this -- one year later. The discovery had no theory to support it, was unexpected, and yet the discoverers were not dismissed from their positions. Amazing, isn't it. Of course, most Nobel prizes (including Einstein's) take much longer, because it usually takes time for the importance to become manifest, but new discoveries are always celebrated in science, by scientists. As I've said before, the most revolutionary ideas in science in centuries, relativity and QM, were accepted almost as quickly as they could be developed. Because they fit the evidence so perfectly. Just about every evaluation of merit in science, from granting of degrees, to awarding academic or industrial positions, to granting awards, to giving funding, to accepting manuscripts for publication, to any degree of fame and glory, has as its first criterion: *** novelty ***. What scientists fear is not new ideas (they crave them), but wrong ideas. Scientists are skeptical; they have to be. Skepticism is a critical filter in guiding research. Without it, they would simply flounder around, like, well, like cold fusion researchers. Of course, that sometimes leads to rejecting good ideas,
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I think you're being pedantic here. Of course I mean that they made the exorbitant claims without proper evidence, not that I have proof that the claims are false. The claims are incredible and extreme. Not as far as I know. They are not incredible or extreme in view of the fact that cold fusion exists, and the fact that many previous experiments produced large power density and high temperatures. I realize you do not consider these to be facts, but I do, as you well know. Please do not dispute that; you would violate the Rule of Ko in the game of Go. Be mindful of that, grasshopper. There is absolutely no reason to believe them . . . There was no reason to believe them, but also no strong reason to doubt them, given the other experimental evidence. I now have reason to believe them. I have no doubt there is a fully equipped laboratory and many skilled people. It is conceivable they are engaged in a gigantic and hugely expensive fraud, but I doubt that. I do not worry about such implausible scenarios. Claims of megawatt devices that will give free heat to the Police Academy of Xanthi (if there is such a thing), claims to being assured of making 300,000 (I forget the actual quantity) units of 5 to 35 kW Hyperions in 2012 for sale, claims to a factory . . . All may be true. I do not know, but as I see it, all are more likely to be true than the skeptical fantasy that cold fusion is not real. You should think twice about betting against people with large, well funded laboratories and 22 years of experimental evidence in their favor. This is a lot like betting that Edison could not make a subdivided electric light in 1879. You should, at least, temper your assertions with some measure of doubt, or even humility. It is one thing to be wrong. It is another to be wrong when you have shouted out the assertion with adjectives such as exorbitant, incredible, extreme . . . I suggest you hedge your bets. Posterity may read this web site, and I suppose you do not wish to look like a fool if it turns out you are wrong. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Supermags w/o Rare Earths
This is good news. There was a similar announcement from a Japanese university, this year I think. Don't recall which one . . . They also developed powerful magnets without rare earths. The Japanese government was upset by the Chinese market manipulations of rare earths. It launched a number of initiatives to prevent that from happening again, such as research and opening mines in other countries. It was enthusiastic about this breakthrough. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you hedge your bets. I've done that all along. And please don't patronize me. It's not very elegant. Grasshopper indeed. You're not some sort of senior sage. You're just trying to decipher a deliberately deceptive and unclear picture, just like the rest of us. And I'd be cautious about your off the record reliable source. Such sources don't always work out. Posterity may read this web site, and I suppose you do not wish to look like a fool if it turns out you are wrong. It is entirely reasonable to be skeptical in the light of what Rossi and Defkalion have done. If anyone looks like a fool in the future, it will be those who believed them without proper evidence.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you hedge your bets. I've done that all along. Maybe amp it up a few notches? And please don't patronize me. It's not very elegant. Grasshopper indeed. You're not some sort of senior sage. Ah, but I am an honorary oriental. (Brevetted rank.) Plus I have two grown children, which give me a license to patronize. It is one of the benefits of parenthood. Look it up. Heck, if I were sure you were of the female persuasion, I might call you sweetie pie. And I'd be cautious about your off the record reliable source. My source is not off the record to me! I know who it is. If anyone looks like a fool in the future, it will be those who believed them without proper evidence. OOOkey-dokey. Don't say I didn't warn you. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Supermags w/o Rare Earths
This seems to be the usual result when someone tries to corner a market. A long time ago the sulfur suppliers tried it and lost out big time. They will reap their just rewards. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Dec 20, 2011 9:30 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Supermags w/o Rare Earths This is good news. There was a similar announcement from a Japanese university, this year I think. Don't recall which one . . . They also developed powerful magnets without rare earths. The Japanese government was upset by the Chinese market manipulations of rare earths. It launched a number of initiatives to prevent that from happening again, such as research and opening mines in other countries. It was enthusiastic about this breakthrough. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Mary, This was easy to check. There is indeed a Xanthi Police Academy. Not yet news if they are indeed warmed up by e-cats. http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/cultureportalweb/print.php?article_id=1070lang=enprint_mode=article Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you hedge your bets. I've done that all along. Maybe amp it up a few notches? And please don't patronize me. It's not very elegant. Grasshopper indeed. You're not some sort of senior sage. Ah, but I am an honorary oriental. (Brevetted rank.) Plus I have two grown children, which give me a license to patronize. It is one of the benefits of parenthood. Look it up. Heck, if I were sure you were of the female persuasion, I might call you sweetie pie. And I'd be cautious about your off the record reliable source. My source is not off the record to me! I know who it is. If anyone looks like a fool in the future, it will be those who believed them without proper evidence. OOOkey-dokey. Don't say I didn't warn you. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
And here where the Police academy is located on google maps: http://wikimapia.org/17980152/Police-academy Giovanni. On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.comwrote: Mary, This was easy to check. There is indeed a Xanthi Police Academy. Not yet news if they are indeed warmed up by e-cats. http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/cultureportalweb/print.php?article_id=1070lang=enprint_mode=article Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you hedge your bets. I've done that all along. Maybe amp it up a few notches? And please don't patronize me. It's not very elegant. Grasshopper indeed. You're not some sort of senior sage. Ah, but I am an honorary oriental. (Brevetted rank.) Plus I have two grown children, which give me a license to patronize. It is one of the benefits of parenthood. Look it up. Heck, if I were sure you were of the female persuasion, I might call you sweetie pie. And I'd be cautious about your off the record reliable source. My source is not off the record to me! I know who it is. If anyone looks like a fool in the future, it will be those who believed them without proper evidence. OOOkey-dokey. Don't say I didn't warn you. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
AND HERE IT IS ! Go on the left of the academy and you see a symbol of a factory. If you translate from Greek this what you get: Former Factory Atmatzidis It will house the 1 of the 3 plants of the company power Defkalion. Also there have been some installation work. Giovann On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: And here where the Police academy is located on google maps: http://wikimapia.org/17980152/Police-academy Giovanni. On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Mary, This was easy to check. There is indeed a Xanthi Police Academy. Not yet news if they are indeed warmed up by e-cats. http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/cultureportalweb/print.php?article_id=1070lang=enprint_mode=article Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you hedge your bets. I've done that all along. Maybe amp it up a few notches? And please don't patronize me. It's not very elegant. Grasshopper indeed. You're not some sort of senior sage. Ah, but I am an honorary oriental. (Brevetted rank.) Plus I have two grown children, which give me a license to patronize. It is one of the benefits of parenthood. Look it up. Heck, if I were sure you were of the female persuasion, I might call you sweetie pie. And I'd be cautious about your off the record reliable source. My source is not off the record to me! I know who it is. If anyone looks like a fool in the future, it will be those who believed them without proper evidence. OOOkey-dokey. Don't say I didn't warn you. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
So the coordinates of the Defkalion factory are: 41.1188 24.8674 Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: AND HERE IT IS ! Go on the left of the academy and you see a symbol of a factory. If you translate from Greek this what you get: Former Factory Atmatzidis It will house the 1 of the 3 plants of the company power Defkalion. Also there have been some installation work. Giovann On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: And here where the Police academy is located on google maps: http://wikimapia.org/17980152/Police-academy Giovanni. On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Mary, This was easy to check. There is indeed a Xanthi Police Academy. Not yet news if they are indeed warmed up by e-cats. http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/cultureportalweb/print.php?article_id=1070lang=enprint_mode=article Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you hedge your bets. I've done that all along. Maybe amp it up a few notches? And please don't patronize me. It's not very elegant. Grasshopper indeed. You're not some sort of senior sage. Ah, but I am an honorary oriental. (Brevetted rank.) Plus I have two grown children, which give me a license to patronize. It is one of the benefits of parenthood. Look it up. Heck, if I were sure you were of the female persuasion, I might call you sweetie pie. And I'd be cautious about your off the record reliable source. My source is not off the record to me! I know who it is. If anyone looks like a fool in the future, it will be those who believed them without proper evidence. OOOkey-dokey. Don't say I didn't warn you. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Once again, I advise Defkalion to show Stremmenos their reactors
Found the Defkalion factory coordinates. It is indeed close to the Xanthi Police Academy. Here they are: 41.1188 24.8674 Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: ”There is nothing new in MOST of the posts in this string.” This forum is NOT a substitute for the ‘comment’ section of some website. It is specifically meant to discuss the technical merits of various fringe claims… this has been explained by others besides me. By pure coincidence, just yesterday and today, someone who wishes to remain anonymous (LOL! ROTFWL) sent me some interesting links. They are in Italian but the illustration is clear and mathematics and modeling tends to transcend language. I want to stress that this is not my work. If anyone has questions about it, there is someone I can forward questions and issue to if I can't field them. The point of the work is to poopoo Jed's contention that the experimental results of October 6 require a nuclear source for the enthalpy/heat evolution measured in the output circuit. The links provide an artist's sketch of the device with labels which correspond to a mathematical model. The model's output reveals temperature vs time curves for the various locations on the diagram. It strongly suggests that all of the results could have been obtained if the device, instead of a nuclear reactor, contained a thermal mass made of steel. I think the assumed mass for the device is, overall, maybe a bit higher than Lewan et al measured but not by much. The image which includes the model's assumptions and output time vs temperature curves: http://imgur.com/o7soB The discussion, in Italian -- Google translate does its usual not so great job. For those not familiar, go to http://translate.google.com/?hl=entab=wT , choose detect language or italian and paste the URL into the translate field. http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14728165-apparato-rossi-focardi-verita-o-bufala-135.html#post119275652 A short list of related skeptical threads about Rossi's work which I did not have time to review: http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/ Bon appetit.
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Article on Defkalion from a local Xanthi newpaper: http://www.xanthipress.gr/eidiseis/politiki/8221-o-antiktipos-gia-ti-defkalion-stin-xanthi-i-epomeni-parousiasi.html Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: So the coordinates of the Defkalion factory are: 41.1188 24.8674 Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: AND HERE IT IS ! Go on the left of the academy and you see a symbol of a factory. If you translate from Greek this what you get: Former Factory Atmatzidis It will house the 1 of the 3 plants of the company power Defkalion. Also there have been some installation work. Giovann On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: And here where the Police academy is located on google maps: http://wikimapia.org/17980152/Police-academy Giovanni. On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Mary, This was easy to check. There is indeed a Xanthi Police Academy. Not yet news if they are indeed warmed up by e-cats. http://www.xanthi.ilsp.gr/cultureportalweb/print.php?article_id=1070lang=enprint_mode=article Giovanni On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:51 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I suggest you hedge your bets. I've done that all along. Maybe amp it up a few notches? And please don't patronize me. It's not very elegant. Grasshopper indeed. You're not some sort of senior sage. Ah, but I am an honorary oriental. (Brevetted rank.) Plus I have two grown children, which give me a license to patronize. It is one of the benefits of parenthood. Look it up. Heck, if I were sure you were of the female persuasion, I might call you sweetie pie. And I'd be cautious about your off the record reliable source. My source is not off the record to me! I know who it is. If anyone looks like a fool in the future, it will be those who believed them without proper evidence. OOOkey-dokey. Don't say I didn't warn you. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion
Google translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=eltl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xanthipress.gr%2Feidiseis%2Fpolitiki%2F8221-o-antiktipos-gia-ti-defkalion-stin-xanthi-i-epomeni-parousiasi.html On 12/21/2011 3:51 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: Article on Defkalion from a local Xanthi newpaper: http://www.xanthipress.gr/eidiseis/politiki/8221-o-antiktipos-gia-ti-defkalion-stin-xanthi-i-epomeni-parousiasi.html Giovanni
Re: [Vo]:Private information about Rossi was the Ampernergo tests described by McKubre
*He meant this person attended the AmpEnerco tests, such as the one in McKube's slide #32: * Dear Jed I have a few question for you (or if possible for McKubre himself) Fell free to answer or just ignore me. I read carefully the slide # 32 I couldn't find any person's name. Can we know this person's name ? Can we ask directly him about the RUN II ? What AmpEner*(c)*o is ? Is it a mispelling or a different company of the actual one: Ampener*(g)*o. http://www.ampenergo.com/ Where did McKubre get those data (the 4 lines in the top of the slides) ? Are part of confidential info? If yes it looks quite strange that one knowing such insides can't even spell correctly the name of the source (Ampener*C*o vs Ampener*G*o) Tank you in advance Regards Andrea 2011/12/20 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: McKubre didn't test anything of Rossi's. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please!) He knows someone who did. This is an important distinction. That is correct. That is what he said during his lecture, which is linked here: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm I think that comment was in section 6. He meant this person attended the AmpEnerco tests, such as the one in McKube's slide #32: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHwhathappen.pdf - Jed
