Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Ni61 is non reactive as stated by DGT and confirmed by Mizuno as presented in Cook's !CCF-18 presentation I interpret the depletion analysis differently than presented in Cook's presentation (e.g., slide 52 [1]). If 61Ni sits in the middle of a chain of neutron captures, it will be a kind of hump that must be crossed, where any that is taken away (e.g., by transition to 62Ni) is given back by transitions from lower isotopes. I.e., it participates quite a bit, rather than very little, contrary to what Norman Cook seems to be saying. There is also this nice quote (slide 37): The raw data suggest that Ni-58 and Ni-60 were consumed, while neutrons were added to Ni-61, Ni-62 and Ni-64, but “depletion analysis” indicates otherwise… If Norman Cook has misinterpreted the data, as I think he might have, then Mizuno's results would appear to fit quite nicely with Rossi's recent results. (Almost too nicely.) Eric [1] https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36817/SimulationNuclearTransmutationPresentation.pdf?sequence=2
[Vo]:An Interesting Calculation
We have noticed that the large mounting rings at the ends of the HotCat do not appear to glow in the same manner as seen on the smaller body of the device. The testers measured the power being radiated and conducted from these rings just as with the inner body and I decided to look into an interesting possibility. The large tubes are mounted near the ends of the device but are still located within a region that should be receiving energy from the reacting core. With that thought in mind, I wondered if the thick and opaque nature of these rings might be used to our advantage as we analyze the operation of the ECAT. The testers broke each of the caps into 3 individual sections and I decided to concentrate upon the center ones since any heat transferring through this section would be pointing outwards and not much should travel towards the partially open ends. Both of the center sections calculated to radiate 9.05 watts which seemed like a gift. The area of the cap central sections was 12.566 x 10^-4 square meters. It has a length of 4/3 centimeters. I translated the length to 2 centimeters so that this figure matched the length of each of the 10 sections used in the calculations for the main small body radiation. The correction showed that the power expected to be radiated by the large cap center section would be 9.05 * 2 * 3 / 4 = 13.575 watts had its length been 2 centimeters. The two inner rings nearest the end caps were measured to be 13.18 and 11.18 watts. This calculation, although not precise due to several factors, adds a significant amount of support for the data the testers have presented. In this special case there appears to be far less leakage of photons through the material as is evidenced by the lack of visual radiation. The flat surface also allows for easy attachment of the thermal dots as compared to the difficulty expressed by the testers when dealing with the machined main body. Perhaps Rossi and his team have used this trick from the beginning to measure the performance of their devices. The surface temperatures of the center sections was 323.63 C when the closest inner ring areas measured 451.8 and 412.9 C. I averaged these two together and obtained 432.35 C. At that point I decided to see whether or not the radiation obeyed the standard 4th order relationship to absolute temperature. Since the outer ring has exactly two times the radius of the inner one, the power density should be 1/2 as much as radiated by the inner ring. The power density is 1/2 instead of 1/4 that many of you might initially expect because only one linear dimension is increasing with radius. I like to work with whole numbers so I inverted the 1/2 to get 2 and took the 4 th root. The result is 1.1892. This should be the ratio of the absolute temperatures of the two different types of sections. The large cap has a temperature of 323.63 + 273 = 596.63 K. Multiply that by the magic number just calculated and you get an estimate of the surface temperature of the inner rings if everything works as hoped. So 596.63 * 1.1892 = 709.51 K. Express that in degrees C; 709.51 - 273 = 436.51 C. The actual average I obtained earlier is 432.35 C which is pretty close. I think I have found a gold nugget! Dave
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
I looked at that reference and went away about as confused as ever. Did you look at the two references that I found? I think it is important for us to follow up on this issue since it seems to be one that will not go away. Do metals appear differently than the materials that Mizuno was viewing? I found the view of the casting holes to be particularly interesting. They resemble a black body by being deep and surrounded by hot material. The color within these holes is very consistent from hole to hole and is very orange. The other reference I found also showed orange as the expected color. Two separate references should offer strong support for a concept. Please take time to look at the references I have listed and I suspect you might change your position. Keep in mind that what I found tends to support what the testers observed. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 1:57 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Why would you expect the device to look white hot when a known metal casting looks orange hot at approximately the same temperature? What am I missing? I think you are wrong. Mizuno and one other person with experience working with glass told me that 1300 deg C incandescence is white. That is what this and other references show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg Incandescence in all materials including solids and liquids has about the same color. The color is independent of the material. Mizuno said materials at 1300 deg C are so bright, they will hurt your eyes if you look at them. You need a welder's mask. As noted, we do not known when the photo was taken. I would say the temperature is 800 to 900 deg C. That is more than the calibration temperature. Maybe this was at the beginning of the test, before excess heat turned on. I have the impression from the graphs that it turns on quickly, so I doubt that is the case. If the authors do not address this question and tell us what color it was, after a while I am going assume they made a mistake, and I am going to ignore this test. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Do metals appear differently than the materials that Mizuno was viewing? Nope. As I said, all materials are incandescent at about the same color. It is only temperature dependent. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
I saw the photo of the block and of course it seems to be similar as well. I am not convinced that the casting that was treated for 12 hours and quickly removed had time to cool that much. I may be wrong, but the first reference I located showed roughly the same color as well. This also matched what was observed by the testers. I see evidence building up that what the testers saw might have been reasonable. Also, I recall that the sun is supposed to appear near white and it is far hotter than 1400 C. We need to locate an expert in this field to settle the question. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 2:07 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I found another entry relating to heat treating of metals. There is a picture of a heat treated casting that states that it was just removed from the oven after heating at 1200 C for 12 hours. I presume the castings were removed a few minutes before the photo was taken and they have cooled down to around 900 deg C. Look at the first photo in this article, Heat treating furnace at 1,800 °F (980 °C). The red color is similar to the e-cat color, and to the 900 deg C mark on the incandescence color bar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
Should the reactor radiate like a normal incandescent body of 1400C or does the reactor radiate according to some other rules? Jed (and Mizuno?) assume it behaves like a normal incandescent body of 1400C so it should glow white. Since it doesn't glow white they assume the output power estimate based on infrared light measurements is invalid. However, even if it were glowing white, the visible light contribution could be ignored and the power output could be (under)estimated from just the infrared light measurements. Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 2:19 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I saw the photo of the block and of course it seems to be similar as well. I am not convinced that the casting that was treated for 12 hours and quickly removed had time to cool that much. I may be wrong, but the first reference I located showed roughly the same color as well. This also matched what was observed by the testers. I see evidence building up that what the testers saw might have been reasonable. Also, I recall that the sun is supposed to appear near white and it is far hotter than 1400 C. We need to locate an expert in this field to settle the question. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 2:07 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I found another entry relating to heat treating of metals. There is a picture of a heat treated casting that states that it was just removed from the oven after heating at 1200 C for 12 hours. I presume the castings were removed a few minutes before the photo was taken and they have cooled down to around 900 deg C. Look at the first photo in this article, Heat treating furnace at 1,800 °F (980 °C). The red color is similar to the e-cat color, and to the 900 deg C mark on the incandescence color bar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Yeah, they leave that out. Reminds me of some one else that we have been dealing with lately. I suppose that the wiki articles can confuse people very easily. I may have found some support for the lower temperature. Look at my latest calculations concerning the caps and how they might be used to our advantage. A quick look at what I might expect according to those calculations yields a temperature of 873.00 C for the reactor active region surface. That number is based upon what is shown for the measured cap temperatures. I hope that I am wrong about that calculation. If accurate, the COP is a lot less than I have hoped for. Everyone keep in mind that this is preliminary and may be way off in value. The process might be flawed and we need further information before it can be trusted. That should be enough disclaimers for just about anyone reading this post. Buyer beware. :-) Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 2:47 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature The caption under the picture doesn't make it clear how long the casting has been out of the oven Steel castings after undergoing 12 hour 1,200 °C (2,190 °F) heat treatment. I recently took up pottery so I know that when the temperature is 1200 the clay become less orange and more white. Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:37 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: How do we reconcile that the color observed by people and I assume normal cameras is orange for the casting at 1200 C in the second sample I found? We are discussing the color shown in the pictures instead of the peak emission wavelength are we not? Why would you expect the device to look white hot when a known metal casting looks orange hot at approximately the same temperature? What am I missing? Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 12:31 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature _Colour temperature_ refers to the *peak* emission of a blackbody whose temperature produces a peak emission within the visible spectrum. e.g. The surface of the sun is about 6000C and the peek emission is white light so it has colour temperature of white. _Incadescence_ is the *visible* light emitted by a black body at a given temperature. An iron at 800C glows red but the peak emission is in the infrared . harry On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dave, Jed refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence Regards. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 1:38 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Take a look at the article in wikipedia about color temperature. Unless I am reading it incorrectly the color expected for a source at 1700K is quite orange. This is in line with what is reported in the latest test. Could someone take a moment to explain to me why the device should not be orange? I have seen where Jed thinks it should be white and I am at a loss. The article is located at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature. Dave -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
This is the question that I have been wrestling with for so long Harry. I may have found a method of getting to the real temperature value. The technique need a lot more calibration before it can be trusted. Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 3:00 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature Should the reactor radiate like a normal incandescent body of 1400C or does the reactor radiate according to some other rules? Jed (and Mizuno?) assume it behaves like a normal incandescent body of 1400C so it should glow white. Since it doesn't glow white they assume the output power estimate based on infrared light measurements is invalid. However, even if it were glowing white, the visible light contribution could be ignored and the power output could be (under)estimated from just the infrared light measurements. Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 2:19 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I saw the photo of the block and of course it seems to be similar as well. I am not convinced that the casting that was treated for 12 hours and quickly removed had time to cool that much. I may be wrong, but the first reference I located showed roughly the same color as well. This also matched what was observed by the testers. I see evidence building up that what the testers saw might have been reasonable. Also, I recall that the sun is supposed to appear near white and it is far hotter than 1400 C. We need to locate an expert in this field to settle the question. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 2:07 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I found another entry relating to heat treating of metals. There is a picture of a heat treated casting that states that it was just removed from the oven after heating at 1200 C for 12 hours. I presume the castings were removed a few minutes before the photo was taken and they have cooled down to around 900 deg C. Look at the first photo in this article, Heat treating furnace at 1,800 °F (980 °C). The red color is similar to the e-cat color, and to the 900 deg C mark on the incandescence color bar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
In the report they said they were unable to attach a thermocouple to the exterior of tube. They should have put the test on hold until they figured out how to do it. Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 3:04 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: This is the question that I have been wrestling with for so long Harry. I may have found a method of getting to the real temperature value. The technique need a lot more calibration before it can be trusted. Dave -Original Message- From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 3:00 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature Should the reactor radiate like a normal incandescent body of 1400C or does the reactor radiate according to some other rules? Jed (and Mizuno?) assume it behaves like a normal incandescent body of 1400C so it should glow white. Since it doesn't glow white they assume the output power estimate based on infrared light measurements is invalid. However, even if it were glowing white, the visible light contribution could be ignored and the power output could be (under)estimated from just the infrared light measurements. Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 2:19 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I saw the photo of the block and of course it seems to be similar as well. I am not convinced that the casting that was treated for 12 hours and quickly removed had time to cool that much. I may be wrong, but the first reference I located showed roughly the same color as well. This also matched what was observed by the testers. I see evidence building up that what the testers saw might have been reasonable. Also, I recall that the sun is supposed to appear near white and it is far hotter than 1400 C. We need to locate an expert in this field to settle the question. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 2:07 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I found another entry relating to heat treating of metals. There is a picture of a heat treated casting that states that it was just removed from the oven after heating at 1200 C for 12 hours. I presume the castings were removed a few minutes before the photo was taken and they have cooled down to around 900 deg C. Look at the first photo in this article, Heat treating furnace at 1,800 °F (980 °C). The red color is similar to the e-cat color, and to the 900 deg C mark on the incandescence color bar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: In the report they said they were unable to attach a thermocouple to the exterior of tube. But there is one inside. I asked whether they have readings from it. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
There are a lot of assumptions, but you are probably right. It would be surprising that the team didn't have a look from the 4 mm hole. What is inside of the eCat is the most important to witness (even more important that the COP1). A 4 mm hole is enough for an eye to see the inside of the tube. Even a camera of a smartphone can do this. That is a question we need to ask to the test team. They should answer us and remove any doubts. If the test team was not allowed to examine the inside of the eCat, it means then that the test wasn't independent, but well under the Rossi's tricks. It would be nice to have an answer from the tester about this as well. In the case of the ash, most probably, the results aren't presentative at all of the real reactant. The ash has hardened and glued to the inside of the tube and taken back by Rossi. We shouldn't concentrate too much on the ash except that we see transmutation ongoing inside of the eCat with isotopic change without gamma. Arnaud _ From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: samedi 18 octobre 2014 16:29 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. The reaction tube was only a 4mm diameter hole and as much a 28 cm deep. In addition, there was the plug for this end in the center of which the thermocouple was glued. The thermocouple must be present as part of the CCI/MicroFusion 3-phase control system. So, even while it was not clear from the report, the dummy runs would have been operated with the plug in the hole (probably not glued), obscuring the view into the hole. Rossi himself added the powder to this hole in the presence of others and glued in the plug. Rossi removed the plug and then the ash in the presence of others, probably not allowing them the difficult view down the reaction tube. Brian Ahern says, The Rossi test had the unknown condition that he be present at the test and nobody was to gain unfettered access to the ingredients. So, it is highly likely that no one had the opportunity to inspect the inside of this 4 mm hole well enough to know if it was virgin ceramic or powder was inside. The upshot is that we don't know that the added powder was really the whole fuel; and it is highly likely, as I said, that it was just the consumable portion plus maybe some obfuscation Ni powder. In the case of the ash, the only thing that came out was debris that had loosened from the inside. The quartz was likely from a grain in the alumina or part of the coating on the inside of the tube. Where did the 62Ni come from? With the temperature excursions of this tube, it is likely some portions flaked off from its attachment to the inside of the tube, and it was there was random junk slag from the reactions. So the ash cannot be said to have evolved from the input powder, which itself was not the active fuel. Bob Higgins On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 2:52 AM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Bob, How do you know that the tube was first coated with enriched 62Ni as you claim here below? The observers could notice the presence of Ni on the inside wall by just looking inside the eCat before the dummy run. Arnaud _ For all we know, the inside of the reaction tube was first coated with an isotopically enriched 62Ni powder which was bonded or sintered to the inside wall. Then when the reactor was open, a few of the wall particles became dislodged and became part of the ash. These were not necessarily transmuted from the fuel, because I believe we only saw some consumable powder (probably the hydride) and maybe some obfuscation Ni powder. The point is that what was put in was not representative of the active fuel - it is a clue, but not statistically representative of the active portion of the fuel. Obviously this is an opinion. Given the high temperature, none of what Rossi originally put in would have come back out, except perhaps some small amount of the Ni that had collected in a colder spot in the reaction tube. What more likely came out were small pieces that had flaked off of the sides of the reactor tube due to thermal expansion mismatch as it was heated and cooled, that were in the tube before he put in the ~1g of consumables taken to be the fuel.
Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
Dave-- I agree with your logic and that some of that mass will be associated with spin energy and its conversion to heat. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor But what about the conservation of energy? What mass is being depleted in order to release the energy? No one has ever shown proof that energy can appear out of nowhere and continue to exist. I suggest that the true source will be uncovered one day and it will be associated with a depletion of fuel mass. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sat, Oct 18, 2014 10:48 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor One thing worth adding – Rossi is said to use a sintered instead of a fused alumina tube. This could be an important detail in superradiance, since the particle size of the alumina before sintering would influence emissivity. For instance, if the tube was made from 10-11 micron alumina powder, then that could favor NASA mentioning a parameter of 27 THz… however, that could be merely one of many coherency ranges which work for SPP… and not a favored range. The SPP “independent gain hypothesis” would work with no nuclear tie-in – a Dirac sea explanation for at least that part of the gain. This is radical but it fits the facts of no gamma, no radioactive ash, need for constant and large electrical input, need for mostly ceramics and little metal, etc. and even the alumina tubes. The most important thing of interest is that - since the MFMP is going to build a “dummy” reactor – they could see the evidence of SPP gain, without added nickel, hydrogen, lithium or any other “fuel”- if they know what to look for. Unfortunately, this would mean that meaningful calibration cannot be accomplished with the dummy, as it is now seen to be active above a trigger temperature, which is the active photon going into superradiance. The $64 is what is the value of this photon. NASA has seen the photon at 27 THz (wavelength 10.5 microns) which corresponds to 1050 C, but that could be because of different conditions in their experiment. Perhaps there are varying factors of superradiance which make a broad range of photons candidates for SPP interaction. First, MFMP would need to chart a comparison of IR radiation at the camera wavelength along with a real temperature profile, done with a platinum thermocouple, which confirms the calculated gain. Then they would need to look for a large jump in the IR profile which coincides with the incandescence of the SPP light at superradiance. It is safe to surmise that this semi-coherence happens about 1050 C. If they see a big jump there, then we have explained a major part of the conundrum. If they find even slight gain (COP 1.2 or so) then that will indicate a non-nuclear modality which could affect nuclear reactions later. If the gain is large enough, a nuclear secondary reaction is superfluous. It is only if the heat is conveyed away from the NAE that in a short term high output burst that the NAE could heat its environment hotter than itself and cause a meltdown. The previous hot cats which were all in stainless jackets were subject to meltdown, but I can find reference to the ceramic one being in a meltdown. It seems to be in better control or Rossi would not have left it there. Perhaps the breakthrough of Rossi, if there is one, is to get away from a nuclear pathway altogether, and this one is not nuclear at all. (but he wants you to think it is). Another remote possibility should be mentioned, if real gain is found in this device… and that would be this: the basis of gain could be only SPP – surface plasmon polaritons. This species may be gainful in itself as it condenses. Electrons would be lost to the Dirac sea via SPP, for instance - but with a relic such as spin retained in 3-space. Again that may seem remote to you now, but to someone who has studied SPP it is more probable than magic gamma ray absorbers, the infamous gram of magic fuel for 30 days, magic internal cooling to protect the fuel, magic fuel rejuvenation of surface features, and the dozen or so other miracles necessary for this device to be related to nuclear fusion. What are the main objections to a SPP modality? Jones From: Bob Higgins … Think about it like a microwave oven (only x-rays instead of
Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
I understand why Jones thinks his latest idea is radical. But, it fits many of the observations--what about the observed nuclear transmutations in LENR? Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:08 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor From: David Roberson Ø But what about the conservation of energy? What mass is being depleted in order to release the energy? Electron mass – 511 keV. The Dirac sea of negative energy is the repository in this suggestion - that intense field of the SPP is analogous to being a “wormhole” for depleting electrons via this field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_sea
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
Eric-- Yeh--You are probably right. However, the idea related to a little project I was assigned in the early 1980's to look into a news report of a professor at the U of Arizona (as I remember) that had developed a procress for transmutation of nuclear wastes. He had written a nuclear physics text book and it included magnetic quadrupole and electric quadrupole coupling in some detail. The idea was that a nucleus could be stimulated to an excited state and then decay to a non-radioactive state or new stable nucleus. A patent had been applied for per the news article. When I tried to retrieve the patent, it had apparently become black. Folks at Oak Ridge who I thought should be aquainted with the work would not talk with me. They should have, given my job. Related experience with others lead me to conclude the blackness of the patent. It was not the first time I had come across an unexplained lack of communication relative to an interesting patent. About the mid 80's I reviewed the PNL prepared DOE document for options for disposal of high level nuclear waste, published in the late 1970's. It was a major work addressing defense wastes as well as commercial wastes and related to options for NEPA evaluations.One option included a similar scheme to the professor's, I thought. The details were spelled out via reference documents in some detail. The conclusion was that such a method was impractical because there was not a cheap way to get electric or magnetic energy through the cloud of electrons of normal radioactive waste. I was not able to get the references for the details. Since that time lots has happened to the capability of tuned electronics with lasers in particular. Tuning was an issue in the early 80's to provide resonance coupling with the moments of the various radioactive nuclei. Such tuned signals can penetrate the electronic clouds around nuclei and allow good deposition of the directed energy. Much of the then current technology was black in my estimation. It was with this background that my recent wishful thinking kicked in. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:38 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: A quadruple oscillating electric field may also help to excite the D's to shed their excess mass relative to the developing 4He particle. This sounds a little bit wishful to me. :) Eric
Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation
Eric-- I had the same thought about Ni-61 as you had in reviewing Cook's slides. I did not go thought the logic as you have. However, my general conclusion from a quick review of the presentation is that there seems to be definite evidence of transmutations of various Ni, Fe, Cr isotopes. However, one question that I had regarding the depletion of the various isotopes at the NAE was that it was not a transmutation but merely an explosive mechanical removal. Bob - Original Message - From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:59 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mizuno, Rossi copper transmutation On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Ni61 is non reactive as stated by DGT and confirmed by Mizuno as presented in Cook's !CCF-18 presentation I interpret the depletion analysis differently than presented in Cook's presentation (e.g., slide 52 [1]). If 61Ni sits in the middle of a chain of neutron captures, it will be a kind of hump that must be crossed, where any that is taken away (e.g., by transition to 62Ni) is given back by transitions from lower isotopes. I.e., it participates quite a bit, rather than very little, contrary to what Norman Cook seems to be saying. There is also this nice quote (slide 37): The raw data suggest that Ni-58 and Ni-60 were consumed, while neutrons were added to Ni-61, Ni-62 and Ni-64, but “depletion analysis” indicates otherwise… If Norman Cook has misinterpreted the data, as I think he might have, then Mizuno's results would appear to fit quite nicely with Rossi's recent results. (Almost too nicely.) Eric [1] https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36817/SimulationNuclearTransmutationPresentation.pdf?sequence=2
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Jed and Dave- Glass is not a black body in my estimation, and I would expect it to look different at any given temperature from a true black body. If Mizuno's correspondence with you Jed was relative to glass experience, I would say it is not applicable to a like-temperature black body. My thought would be that a metal that looked black to start with would be closer to a black body than a shiny silvery or gold one. However, its been years since I have reviewed the detailed electric and magnetic parameters of a substance that make it a black body. It would seem to me that resonant vibrational lattice parameters for whatever the material in question should skew the absorption and emission spectrum for that particular body and, hence, change the spectrum that escapes the particular body in question, relative to a black body. I think a black body absorbs and emits radiation at all visible frequencies without preference for any particular frequency. I do not think that is true for glass, since it is transparent to most visual light. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Do metals appear differently than the materials that Mizuno was viewing? Nope. As I said, all materials are incandescent at about the same color. It is only temperature dependent. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
The temperature of a Pāhoehoe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava#P.C4.81hoehoe lava flow can be estimated by observing its color. The result agrees well with measured temperatures of lava flows at about 1,000 to 1,200 °C (1,830 to 2,190 °F). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pahoehoe_toe.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation Craig
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
Jed-- I hope you get an answer. This question has caused me to resist getting into a give and take about the camera data. The thermocouple must have been used to calibrate the camera at operating conditions, IF IT WERE WORKING. The lack of this obvious information suggests the T/C was not working properly. They either work on don't from my experience. The question being so simple puts them in a bind to answer. If it didn't work they should, say so. If it did work properly they should provide the data. Rossi claims there were millions of data points. It would nice to request that they publish their data base of all the raw data. It all can't be in the published document if there was as much as suggested by Rossi. However, he may have had some restrictions on the data they could publish to protect revealing the detailed operating conditions. The researchers doing the test would have access to the data as it was accumulated and would have used it to justify their conclusions, despite leaving room for skeptics to rail on. Bob - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: In the report they said they were unable to attach a thermocouple to the exterior of tube. But there is one inside. I asked whether they have readings from it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.
Arnaud-- As I understand, the hole was not open during operation. Operators could not look in during operation. After shutdown, without a good light source it would be hard to see anything through a 4 mm hole. Bob - Original Message - From: Arnaud Kodeck To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 2:23 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. There are a lot of assumptions, but you are probably right. It would be surprising that the team didn't have a look from the 4 mm hole. What is inside of the eCat is the most important to witness (even more important that the COP1). A 4 mm hole is enough for an eye to see the inside of the tube. Even a camera of a smartphone can do this. That is a question we need to ask to the test team. They should answer us and remove any doubts. If the test team was not allowed to examine the inside of the eCat, it means then that the test wasn't independent, but well under the Rossi's tricks. It would be nice to have an answer from the tester about this as well. In the case of the ash, most probably, the results aren't presentative at all of the real reactant. The ash has hardened and glued to the inside of the tube and taken back by Rossi. We shouldn't concentrate too much on the ash except that we see transmutation ongoing inside of the eCat with isotopic change without gamma. Arnaud -- From: Bob Higgins [mailto:rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com] Sent: samedi 18 octobre 2014 16:29 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. The reaction tube was only a 4mm diameter hole and as much a 28 cm deep. In addition, there was the plug for this end in the center of which the thermocouple was glued. The thermocouple must be present as part of the CCI/MicroFusion 3-phase control system. So, even while it was not clear from the report, the dummy runs would have been operated with the plug in the hole (probably not glued), obscuring the view into the hole. Rossi himself added the powder to this hole in the presence of others and glued in the plug. Rossi removed the plug and then the ash in the presence of others, probably not allowing them the difficult view down the reaction tube. Brian Ahern says, The Rossi test had the unknown condition that he be present at the test and nobody was to gain unfettered access to the ingredients. So, it is highly likely that no one had the opportunity to inspect the inside of this 4 mm hole well enough to know if it was virgin ceramic or powder was inside. The upshot is that we don't know that the added powder was really the whole fuel; and it is highly likely, as I said, that it was just the consumable portion plus maybe some obfuscation Ni powder. In the case of the ash, the only thing that came out was debris that had loosened from the inside. The quartz was likely from a grain in the alumina or part of the coating on the inside of the tube. Where did the 62Ni come from? With the temperature excursions of this tube, it is likely some portions flaked off from its attachment to the inside of the tube, and it was there was random junk slag from the reactions. So the ash cannot be said to have evolved from the input powder, which itself was not the active fuel. Bob Higgins On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 2:52 AM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote: Bob, How do you know that the tube was first coated with enriched 62Ni as you claim here below? The observers could notice the presence of Ni on the inside wall by just looking inside the eCat before the dummy run. Arnaud -- For all we know, the inside of the reaction tube was first coated with an isotopically enriched 62Ni powder which was bonded or sintered to the inside wall. Then when the reactor was open, a few of the wall particles became dislodged and became part of the ash. These were not necessarily transmuted from the fuel, because I believe we only saw some consumable powder (probably the hydride) and maybe some obfuscation Ni powder. The point is that what was put in was not representative of the active fuel - it is a clue, but not statistically representative of the active portion of the fuel. Obviously this is an opinion. Given the high temperature, none of what Rossi originally put in would have come back out, except perhaps some small amount of the Ni that had collected in a colder spot in the reaction tube. What more likely came out were small pieces that had flaked off of the sides of the reactor tube due to thermal expansion mismatch as it was heated and cooled, that were in the tube before he put in the ~1g of consumables taken to be the fuel.
RE: [Vo]:Color Temperature
There is one other important detail in the discussion of light vs. temperature – the coherence or semi-coherence of the radiation. This is a step above “intensity”. If it is semi-coherent, the term “superradiance” is used. Even “invisible” IR light can be extremely visible – blindingly visible, when it is coherent or semi-coherent. A CO2 laser is all the evidence you need of that. The IR photons of this laser are completely invisible to the human eye - unless coherent where they show up as red. The CO2 laser is important because this wavelength is near or identical to where NASA thinks SPP are most easily formed. Of course, that could be because they are using a CO2 laser :-) From: H Veeder _Colour temperature_ refers to the *peak* emission of a blackbody whose temperature produces a peak emission within the visible spectrum. e.g. The surface of the sun is about 6000C and the peek emission is white light so it has color temperature of white. _Incadescence_ is the *visible* light emitted by a black body at a given temperature. An iron at 800C glows red but the peak emission is in the infrared . attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [Vo]:Color Temperature
The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. Of course, Levi knew that from TP1 – he was told this by dozens of peers - that he should have performed this task, yet he did not. There is no valid excuse … other than gross incompetence. The spiel that the temperature of the tube must maintain thermal equilibrium is no excuse. A long copper sheet, bent into a jacket with surrounding water coil extending over the lead-tubes, and surrounded by Aerogel super insulation could be mounted 20 cm away so as not to affect thermal equilibrium. It would retain 95% of heat (all forms) to be removed by the fluid. Instead, we are left with a credibility disaster for LENR in general. Can Mizuno right the ship? _ From: Jones Beene There is one other important detail in the discussion of light vs. temperature – the coherence or semi-coherence of the radiation. This is a step above “intensity”. If it is semi-coherent, the term “superradiance” is used. Even “invisible” IR light can be extremely visible – blindingly visible, when it is coherent or semi-coherent. A CO2 laser is all the evidence you need of that. The IR photons of this laser are completely invisible to the human eye - unless coherent where they show up as red. The CO2 laser is important because this wavelength is near or identical to where NASA thinks SPP are most easily formed. Of course, that could be because they are using a CO2 laser :-) From: H Veeder _Colour temperature_ refers to the *peak* emission of a blackbody whose temperature produces a peak emission within the visible spectrum. e.g. The surface of the sun is about 6000C and the peek emission is white light so it has color temperature of white. _Incadescence_ is the *visible* light emitted by a black body at a given temperature. An iron at 800C glows red but the peak emission is in the infrared . attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: I understand why Jones thinks his latest idea is radical. But, it fits many of the observations--what about the observed nuclear transmutations in LENR? Suppose the mass of the electron is absorbed by a proton in the nucleus while the spin momentum creates heat via the SPP?
RE: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Bob Cook wrote: I understand why Jones thinks his latest idea is radical. But, it fits many of the observations--what about the observed nuclear transmutations in LENR? Suppose the mass of the electron is absorbed by a proton in the nucleus while the spin momentum creates heat via the SPP? There could be two different things going on, one is SPP and the other is LENR This is a clue from the old hot cat: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrx3oCHm1erPduOU_DeO4_unHd2dAbFoifVWGrsAhQ3BMwGh4N Match this image against the chart here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg That looks like a good match for something between 1000 and 1100 C, no? I keep going back to the SPP and to NASA, etc.
[Vo]:invitation to nuclear scientists
Dear Friends, An other late weekend lecture. http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/10/ethan-siegels-third-bomb-thrown-on-cold.html Tomorrow will bring very serious professional work. Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Jones, you are being unfair to Levi and the others. Putting together a calorimetric system that the skeptics would accept as accurate would not be an easy task. I appreciate the work that these guys performed. There are shortcomings that many have pointed out, but I suspect that this will always be the situation regardless of what is done. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 11:30 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Color Temperature The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. Of course, Levi knew that from TP1 – he was told this by dozens of peers - that he should have performed this task, yet he did not. There is no valid excuse … other than gross incompetence. The spiel that the temperature of the tube must maintain thermal equilibrium is no excuse. A long copper sheet, bent into a jacket with surrounding water coil extending over the lead-tubes, and surrounded by Aerogel super insulation could be mounted 20 cm away so as not to affect thermal equilibrium. It would retain 95% of heat (all forms) to be removed by the fluid. Instead, we are left with a credibility disaster for LENR in general. Can Mizuno right the ship? _ From: Jones Beene There is one other important detail in the discussion of light vs. temperature – the coherence or semi-coherence of the radiation. This is a step above “intensity”. If it is semi-coherent, the term “superradiance” is used. Even “invisible” IR light can be extremely visible – blindingly visible, when it is coherent or semi-coherent. A CO2 laser is all the evidence you need of that. The IR photons of this laser are completely invisible to the human eye - unless coherent where they show up as red. The CO2 laser is important because this wavelength is near or identical to where NASA thinks SPP are most easily formed. Of course, that could be because they are using a CO2 laser :-) From: H Veeder _Colour temperature_ refers to the *peak* emission of a blackbody whose temperature produces a peak emission within the visible spectrum. e.g. The surface of the sun is about 6000C and the peek emission is white light so it has color temperature of white. _Incadescence_ is the *visible* light emitted by a black body at a given temperature. An iron at 800C glows red but the peak emission is in the infrared .
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 7:05 AM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: The temperature of a Pāhoehoe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Lava#P.C4.81hoehoe lava flow can be estimated by observing its color. The result agrees well with measured temperatures of lava flows at about 1,000 to 1,200 °C (1,830 to 2,190 °F). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pahoehoe_toe.jpg I assume the temperature should be estimated from the light patches in the lava flow, since the darker patches are areas of the surface that are starting to harden. The lighter portions match the color in the image Jed has been pointing to, making an estimate of 1000 to 1200 C seem reasonable [1]. The challenge with lava is that it is essentially a blackbody, as can be seen by the areas of the lava flow that have already cooled down. People are debating elsewhere in this thread whether the same heuristic for deriving temperature from color can be applied to something that isn't a blackbody (e.g., glass, or an alumina cylinder). I wonder if there is someone who can speak from professional experience on this question. Eric [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg
[Vo]:MFMP on Lithium
From the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project facebook page: --- Is this the catalyst? As we reported in a previous Facebook post, we know for a fact that Pons and Fleischmann had a key Lithium compound in their lab, but that is not all the data points that have encouraged us to think that Lithium is important in apparent high-yield LENR. We also know that it was being proposed openly in 2001 alongside Ni+H and AL2O3. On December the 14th 2012, team member Bob Greenyer experienced something that has haunted him ever since... after making a presentation in Rome, announcing the MFMPs first seemingly positive result by Mathieu Valat with Celani wire in France: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-eKgEVY868list=UUEy09JW5XAd95JmknU1JOeQ https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DH-eKgEVY868%26list%3DUUEy09JW5XAd95JmknU1JOeQh=qAQF4uy3venc=AZNboU243icfPambK44v1N0-ZQypgpGtUGkmUMuUfdeAEVf1wG8zbKeOxQicDLiu8gh7gbIgU-SNf8ypY0bDDenZ8w3fB64feoRpOrDgbbbP2IJCZB1p-cBG_e86Hph9c2amf0nqNlmtHbqNAWLCrSrks=1 As Bob left the meeting room, just a few paces out of the door, a guy approached him quickly from behind and without introduction said something and then walked off. In Bob's own words: when I presented in Rome in December 2012, someone came up to me and gave me a nudge and a wink and said I should add an alkali metal, I said did he mean something like Lithium and he would neither confirm or deny. The man might have been from the military since the presentation was in a services facility. Moving to early 2014 Well before this report was published, Piantelli made an addition to his granted patent citing that Lithium was the best way to enhance the effect in a Ni+H thermally excited gas phase system. http://www.google.com/patents/US20140098917 http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fpatents%2FUS20140098917h=HAQFKYeBCenc=AZOdm4MsoU_CBjNS_sNzTQC_ZWdYymyDMittunqbXOwBk8yA6FapC_KJhyzO6v7uU4gn5Qpm-9yrZNlzoDiOXtTB23c9p-ae1kr9u7bwCiqfwRP3gCzFOINUQAgY1Xtg9_cQo-gjQYwGXNj0ML4bi0vrs=1 In light of the mysterious guy and the publication of Piantellis patent addition, the MFMP was inspired to look at previous experiments and it was noted that Quartz cell in the US did not produce any apparent excess heat, nor did SKINNERS cells that were in steel, when the Borosilicate glass used by Mathieu appeared to... could it be the Boron content that was critical, since Piantelli notes that Boron enhances the effect also - but to a lesser degree. Then we found out that Borosilicate can have Lithium Carbonate added - up to 5%!, was Celani or Mathieu using that type? http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Pyrex.html http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.madehow.com%2FVolume-7%2FPyrex.htmlh=LAQFabtV4enc=AZOrmfulqyvZne4j6ZdSmFxUNtiABo5jUe8aSlX1K9bT_xky7CGv2O_QoQyvjD-0ucqQ9LgO3UmPvFs1lWQKgDP9V6tNm9s4Zxzs8cL2RTmpD4nbTAYMkKRgV2ONLjZKY9w9AF0q4NrynNAy5P5zSs9ss=1 Anyhow - that set us on a determined path to include Lithium compounds in future research, after we had first, fully tested without. Then we found that Celani was using Lepidolite - a mineral mica from a very old manufacturer - one of the main sources of Lithium - to support his wires in his cells. Commercial mica today generally comes from non lithium baring mica sources. This might have explained his slightly higher apparent excess. Then we found out that Celani was getting higher apparent excess by having fine borosilicate/mica strapped next to his wires. We were also aware of the chemo-nuclear work of Hideotsugo Ikegami and his use of Lithium. And Bob Higgins then noted Li2SO4 was an ingredient to the electrolyte in the Patterson cell to make the water conductive. Added weight came from an article written for e-cat world, Rick Allen which noted There are additional bits of information that point toward the possibility that lithium is utilized. One interesting fact is that .4% lithium was found in the used “charge” that Rossi supplied to Sven Kullander for analysis. In an unused sample, no lithium was present. There are two possibilities here. One is that the lithium was a transmutation product. The second is that the unused charge was never in a reactor so it did not contain lithium. I propose the hypothesis that the lithium is added separately to the nickel powder (perhaps by coating the walls of the reactor) and that when a high temperature is reached the lithium melts and mixes with the nickel powder. In current systems, there may be both lithium on the walls of the reactor and a tablet of lithium hydride. You can read the rest of the article here: http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/04/26/lithium-the-case-for-an-e-cat-catalyst-guest-post/
RE: [Vo]:Color Temperature
I disagree Dave. If you were to count the many hundreds if not thousands of hours which have been wasted arguing over the thermometry, multiplied by the hourly rate of the arguers, the actual cost to do excellent water flow calorimetry would have been a small fraction of that – probably less than 10%. Ahern offered to do this for less than the many airfares to Lugano. Levi should not be given a free ride on this report, since he was roundly criticized in the first instance. I suspect he was well-paid as well. From: David Roberson Jones, you are being unfair to Levi and the others. Putting together a calorimetric system that the skeptics would accept as accurate would not be an easy task. I appreciate the work that these guys performed. There are shortcomings that many have pointed out, but I suspect that this will always be the situation regardless of what is done. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. Of course, Levi knew that from TP1 – he was told this by dozens of peers - that he should have performed this task, yet he did not. There is no valid excuse … other than gross incompetence. The spiel that the temperature of the tube must maintain thermal equilibrium is no excuse. A long copper sheet, bent into a jacket with surrounding water coil extending over the lead-tubes, and surrounded by Aerogel super insulation could be mounted 20 cm away so as not to affect thermal equilibrium. It would retain 95% of heat (all forms) to be removed by the fluid. Instead, we are left with a credibility disaster for LENR in general. Can Mizuno right the ship? _ From: Jones Beene There is one other important detail in the discussion of light vs. temperature – the coherence or semi-coherence of the radiation. This is a step above “intensity”. If it is semi-coherent, the term “superradiance” is used. Even “invisible” IR light can be extremely visible – blindingly visible, when it is coherent or semi-coherent. A CO2 laser is all the evidence you need of that. The IR photons of this laser are completely invisible to the human eye - unless coherent where they show up as red. The CO2 laser is important because this wavelength is near or identical to where NASA thinks SPP are most easily formed. Of course, that could be because they are using a CO2 laser :-) From: H Veeder _Colour temperature_ refers to the *peak* emission of a blackbody whose temperature produces a peak emission within the visible spectrum. e.g. The surface of the sun is about 6000C and the peek emission is white light so it has color temperature of white. _Incadescence_ is the *visible* light emitted by a black body at a given temperature. An iron at 800C glows red but the peak emission is in the infrared .
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: I disagree Dave. If you were to count the many hundreds if not thousands of hours which have been wasted arguing over the thermometry, multiplied by the hourly rate of the arguers, the actual cost to do excellent water flow calorimetry would have been a small fraction of that – probably less than 10%. I kind of agree. I wish they had carried out calorimetry that would not have been open to fiddly questions. And beyond that, I wish there had been multiple, careful calibration runs, instead of something that wasn't really a calibration run. The authors hint that they know they're brushing aside an important detail by giving explanations for the low-temperature of the dummy run: So, there was some fear of fracturing the ceramic body, due to the lower temperature of the thermal generators with respect to the loaded reactor. For these reasons, power to the dummy reactor was held at below 500 W, in order to avoid any possible damage to the apparatus. They seem to have known in advance that this decision would be a point of controversy. It is true that they had only one E-Cat, so if they broke it, they might have been in a bind. That constraint on a good test would ultimately go back to Rossi and IH. I don't know what considerations apply to measuring the power output of a body that is as hot as the E-Cat (presumably in the 900-1500 C range). It may be that professionals use approaches similar to the one used in the Lugano test, with IR cameras and so on. We are hampered by a lack of direct professional expertise on this question. We have heard numerous complaints from smart people who have no direct expertise in this stuff. By contrast, there was the suggestion sometime back by someone who does have expertise that the approach of the Lugano test was basically sound, and they did go to the manufacturers and calibrate their equipment. If the calorimetry they did was basically sound, the problem is largely with us. Still, we only have the information that we have, and we can only draw upon the knowledge we already have. Eric
Re: [Vo]:invitation to nuclear scientists
Russian LENR researchers (D.V. FILIPPOV) have developed a phenomenological model for interpreting the low-energy nuclear transformations seen in LENR experiments and have embodied that model in a computer program that matches resident input and output LERN reaction products against all applicable conservation laws so that the production of excess energy produced by the reaction is minimized. The product of this model and its associated computer program was verified against experimental transmutation results observed in the outcomes of the experiments on the electric explosion of metallic foils in liquids. In these extensive series of exploding foil experiments, the atomic composition of both the foils and the liquids were systematically varied over a wide range of materials. The phenomenological model that produced the resultant transmutation predictions was adjusted until the program described perfectly the entire extensive experimental data set. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Friends, An other late weekend lecture. http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/10/ethan-siegels-third-bomb-thrown-on-cold.html Tomorrow will bring very serious professional work. Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Light bulbs are described by the color of the light that they produce. In that regard, a temperature of 1200C would correspond to a red orange. http://www.google.com/url?sa=irct=jq=esrc=ssource=imagescd=cad=rjauact=8ved=0CAcQjRwurl=http%3A%2F%2Flowel.tiffen.com%2Fedu%2Fcolor_temperature_and_rendering_demystified.htmlei=Ef5DVKD0MNj_yQT8toGIDgbvm=bv.77648437,d.aWwpsig=AFQjCNH71xFUDo2GXIveYEduRGMTWwWicAust=1413828256200317 http://www.google.com/url?sa=irct=jq=esrc=ssource=imagescd=cad=rjauact=8ved=0CAcQjRwurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.robaid.com%2Fgadgets%2Fdefinite-guide-for-declaration-found-on-light-bulb-packages.htmei=lf1DVLSCAsK0yASz-4DwBgbvm=bv.77648437,d.aWwpsig=AFQjCNH71xFUDo2GXIveYEduRGMTWwWicAust=1413828256200317 On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 7:05 AM, Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: The temperature of a Pāhoehoe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Lava#P.C4.81hoehoe lava flow can be estimated by observing its color. The result agrees well with measured temperatures of lava flows at about 1,000 to 1,200 °C (1,830 to 2,190 °F). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pahoehoe_toe.jpg I assume the temperature should be estimated from the light patches in the lava flow, since the darker patches are areas of the surface that are starting to harden. The lighter portions match the color in the image Jed has been pointing to, making an estimate of 1000 to 1200 C seem reasonable [1]. The challenge with lava is that it is essentially a blackbody, as can be seen by the areas of the lava flow that have already cooled down. People are debating elsewhere in this thread whether the same heuristic for deriving temperature from color can be applied to something that isn't a blackbody (e.g., glass, or an alumina cylinder). I wonder if there is someone who can speak from professional experience on this question. Eric [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
We need to enlarge our model space rather than limiting ourselves to one model that is inconsistent with the observations. Consider the difference between the sun at noon and the sun at dawn/dusk. The interior of the HotCat glows white but from the outside it glows red like a sunrise because it is shinning through an atmosphere of alumina. With this model of illumination the the output power estimates appear valid. Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: In the report they said they were unable to attach a thermocouple to the exterior of tube. But there is one inside. I asked whether they have readings from it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:MFMP on Lithium
I must have produce 500 posts identifying an alkali metal as the Rossi secret catalyst and even better, I provided the theory behind that recommendation. Lithium is a simplistic conclusion to draw from the Rossi TPT results. The alkali metal selected must match the operational temperature of the reactor. The options are cesium, potassium and lithium. Some old posts Lithium is another secret sauce candidate. From your reference, LiH decomposes at 1,000C. The Mouse must attain a minimum temperature that reaches at least 1,000C. After the heat pulse of the mouse, then lithium, hydrogen, and LiH dust particles would have been produced at the termination of the Mouse's heat pulse. *Potassium hydride*, KH, is the inorganic compound of potassium and hydride. It is a white solid, although commercial samples appear gray. As a secret sauce, potassium hydride operates at a lower temperature than LiH. KH decomposes at 400C. The “mouse” must only attain a minimum temperature that reaches at least 400C. Rossi said that he tried various chemical combinations of his secret sauce and used the one that worked best. Now that he is using a hydride to provide hydrogen to his system, if you knew the minimum startup temperature of his reactor, you could use that value to find deduce the correct hydride secret sauce that he is now using. The hydrogen release temperature is the major pacing factor now in secret sauce performance. = In order to make a convenient commercial product, a hydride compound that sublimates (releases hydrogen) when the temperature is increased is required. This hydrogen production mechanism need not be located in the mouse. I believe that the job of the mouse is to produce nano-particles as a product of heat it produces beyond the melting point of an alkali metal (most probably potassium). The nuclear active sites that these nanoparticles produce through amalgamation will degrade over time due to nuclear activity and must periodically be rebuilt by a reapplication of high temperature heat. When the temperature of the E-Cat gets above a set temperature, other high temperature nano-particle processes take over and control is lost. By the way adding to the list of candidates, lithium hydride is another candidate that will produce uncontrolled high temperature nanoparticle reactions. Normally, there is little oxygen present in the Rossi reactor because oxygen will produce uncontrollable and chaotic LENR activity inside of the nuclear active sites. - Rossi has replaced the hydrogen tank that originally supplied his reactor with one or more hydride compounds. When heated, these compounds will release hydrogen in proportion to the applied heat. I speculate these compounds will also provide the catalytic effect needed to build large Rydberg matter based nanoparticles. For example, lithium hydride or potassium hydride would support the catalytic function. Rossi may be killing two birds with one stone; Any Alkali Metal hydride compound would do the catalytic job as well as filling the reactor with hydrogen. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 1:02 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: From the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project facebook page: --- Is this the catalyst? As we reported in a previous Facebook post, we know for a fact that Pons and Fleischmann had a key Lithium compound in their lab, but that is not all the data points that have encouraged us to think that Lithium is important in apparent high-yield LENR. We also know that it was being proposed openly in 2001 alongside Ni+H and AL2O3. On December the 14th 2012, team member Bob Greenyer experienced something that has haunted him ever since... after making a presentation in Rome, announcing the MFMPs first seemingly positive result by Mathieu Valat with Celani wire in France: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-eKgEVY868list=UUEy09JW5XAd95JmknU1JOeQ https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DH-eKgEVY868%26list%3DUUEy09JW5XAd95JmknU1JOeQh=qAQF4uy3venc=AZNboU243icfPambK44v1N0-ZQypgpGtUGkmUMuUfdeAEVf1wG8zbKeOxQicDLiu8gh7gbIgU-SNf8ypY0bDDenZ8w3fB64feoRpOrDgbbbP2IJCZB1p-cBG_e86Hph9c2amf0nqNlmtHbqNAWLCrSrks=1 As Bob left the meeting room, just a few paces out of the door, a guy approached him quickly from behind and without introduction said something and then walked off. In Bob's own words: when I presented in Rome in December 2012, someone came up to me and gave me a nudge and a wink and said I should add an alkali metal, I said did he mean something like Lithium and he would neither confirm or deny. The man might have been from the military since the presentation was in a services facility. Moving to
Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: I keep going back to the SPP and to NASA, etc. It's not like they are doing a lot these days, eg no rocket science.
[Vo]:OT: Where are we?
Are you ok? 'cause this place can sometimes make people feel a bit... ...you know... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bGYljQ5Uw Harry
Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
Terry-- That's a good supplement to Jone's idea, that he may not think is too radical:) Bob - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: I understand why Jones thinks his latest idea is radical. But, it fits many of the observations--what about the observed nuclear transmutations in LENR? Suppose the mass of the electron is absorbed by a proton in the nucleus while the spin momentum creates heat via the SPP?
Re: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
Jones-- I thought you might like Terry's idea. Bob - Original Message - From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:20 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton Bob Cook wrote: I understand why Jones thinks his latest idea is radical. But, it fits many of the observations--what about the observed nuclear transmutations in LENR? Suppose the mass of the electron is absorbed by a proton in the nucleus while the spin momentum creates heat via the SPP? There could be two different things going on, one is SPP and the other is LENR This is a clue from the old hot cat: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrx3oCHm1erPduOU_DeO4_unHd2dAbFoifVWGrsAhQ3BMwGh4N Match this image against the chart here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg That looks like a good match for something between 1000 and 1100 C, no? I keep going back to the SPP and to NASA, etc.
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Only a Thermal Camera is calibrated to show accurate readings when imaging glowing hot objects, a normal consumer camera will automatically make ISO adjustments to bring the scene into a visible range. Depending on how you have the camera aimed and pointed, you can make a dull red glow appear to be orange, or a white hot glow can be adjusted to look reddish. You need to know what type of imaging device was used to get which pictures in the report. Nixter On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:36 PM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dave, Jed refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence Regards. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 1:38 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Take a look at the article in wikipedia about color temperature. Unless I am reading it incorrectly the color expected for a source at 1700K is quite orange. This is in line with what is reported in the latest test. Could someone take a moment to explain to me why the device should not be orange? I have seen where Jed thinks it should be white and I am at a loss. The article is located at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature. Dave -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
[Vo]:Why are Lockheed and Rossi are Dangerous/Evil
One thing I don't hear a lot of people discussing is the FUD generated by cold fusion and hot fusion. Industries are investing billions of dollars trying to make solar work. Something that works today and is actually trying to solve global warming and dangerous pollution. Companies like Lockheed and Rossi who make these dangerous claims without real proof are discouraging people from making important investments in Solar. My suggestion to Rossi and Lockheed, unless you have something real to share, STFU.
Re: [Vo]:MFMP on Lithium
well done. harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I must have produce 500 posts identifying an alkali metal as the Rossi secret catalyst and even better, I provided the theory behind that recommendation. Lithium is a simplistic conclusion to draw from the Rossi TPT results. snip
RE: [Vo]: Gettering in the Lugano IH reactor
-Original Message- From: Bob Cook I thought you might like Terry's idea. Awkshully, Bob... it could work, but is the proton then neutralized as a neutron? Having a free neutron creates problems. What I had been thinking is a bit different- that the electron itself goes into the Dirac sea as the SPP decays, leaving behind only its spin (or a component of spin if the electron is nothing but 2 kinds of spin plus charge) ... which spin is transferred to the magnon, as the electron is lost - charge and all. The electron's 511 keV is a combination angular momentum, intrinsic spin, charge and possibly something else, but part of that could transfer to magnons, if an electron disappears in the SPP aftermath. Does the reactor become positively charged, or negatively charged or is it neutral ? You would think this would be reported. If 40 amps of alternating current is flowing into a device which becomes positively charged, then we can possibly calculate how much mass is lost via electron depletion with spin energy transferred and retained. Or if negatively charged, then perhaps only charge is retained and spin is lost. Not enough information. It could be that each lost electron gives a decent fraction of its mass-energy as intrinsic spin, say 100 keV, and then we can model the reaction. Who knows? Anyway, unless the MFMP finds gain via SPP, we will likely never know. From: Terry Blanton Suppose the mass of the electron is absorbed by a proton in the nucleus while the spin momentum creates heat via the SPP? There could be two different things going on, one is SPP and the other is LENR This is a clue from the old hot cat: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrx3oCHm1erPduOU_DeO4_unHd2dAbFoifVWGrsAhQ3BMwGh4N Match this image against the chart here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg That looks like a good match for something between 1000 and 1100 C, no? I keep going back to the SPP and to NASA, etc.
Re: [Vo]:Why are Lockheed and Rossi are Dangerous/Evil
I don't believe that so much money is being dumped into Rossi/Cold Fusion that we should compare it to the parasitism of the hot fusion industry. Lockheed is an established, billion-dollar-a-year military-industrial-complex mainstay -- how can you possibly compare/conflate the two? Yeah let's ditch hot fusion, let's get solar going, but in parallel w/ CF. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: One thing I don't hear a lot of people discussing is the FUD generated by cold fusion and hot fusion. Industries are investing billions of dollars trying to make solar work. Something that works today and is actually trying to solve global warming and dangerous pollution. Companies like Lockheed and Rossi who make these dangerous claims without real proof are discouraging people from making important investments in Solar. My suggestion to Rossi and Lockheed, unless you have something real to share, STFU.
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Jed-- I hope you get an answer. This question has caused me to resist getting into a give and take about the camera data. The thermocouple must have been used to calibrate the camera at operating conditions, IF IT WERE WORKING. The lack of this obvious information suggests the T/C was not working properly. They either work on don't from my experience. The question being so simple puts them in a bind to answer. If it didn't work they should, say so. If it did work properly they should provide the data. Rossi claims there were millions of data points. It would nice to request that they publish their data base of all the raw data. It all can't be in the published document if there was as much as suggested by Rossi. However, he may have had some restrictions on the data they could publish to protect revealing the detailed operating conditions. The researchers doing the test would have access to the data as it was accumulated and would have used it to justify their conclusions, despite leaving room for skeptics to rail on. I start with the naive (trusting) assumption that everything the authors of the Lugano report say about the reactor is based on fact rather than guesswork, but they can't reveal why they know them to be factual because it might reveal important IP. Unfortunately, such a situation will stimulate the more distrustful skeptics to imagine incompetence and/or misdirection. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Jones-- As you may remember I was at the University of Bologna on September 19th exactly 1 month ago with the objective of visiting Levi. I do not believe he was well paid for his work at Lugano. The University would not accept a donation from me to assist in LENR research at the University or any other donation unless it was specifically approved by the Italian Government. I was informed that there is an Italian law to this effect disallowing donations to Italian universities, at least those that are state owned. The Physics Department head professor noted that there would be a lot of paper work necessary to even propose a donation. I got the idea that any effort to go through the red tape would be useless. Separately, while in Bologna I was informed that it would be doubtful that Levi would accept any kind of payment or donation of any kind and still remain a professor. This was an outside opinion by what I consider a knowledgeable Italian source.In this regard I concluded that Focardi was never paid by Rossi while being a professor. He and Levi worked together and seemed to me to be of like minds. The reason I was not able to meet with Levi himself is not clear, however, in reflection I believe he was in Lugano working on the report we have been discussing. I have not confirmed this with him. I may try in the future not that I am back with my desk top keyboard. Bob - Original Message - From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 10:38 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Color Temperature I disagree Dave. If you were to count the many hundreds if not thousands of hours which have been wasted arguing over the thermometry, multiplied by the hourly rate of the arguers, the actual cost to do excellent water flow calorimetry would have been a small fraction of that – probably less than 10%. Ahern offered to do this for less than the many airfares to Lugano. Levi should not be given a free ride on this report, since he was roundly criticized in the first instance. I suspect he was well-paid as well. From: David Roberson Jones, you are being unfair to Levi and the others. Putting together a calorimetric system that the skeptics would accept as accurate would not be an easy task. I appreciate the work that these guys performed. There are shortcomings that many have pointed out, but I suspect that this will always be the situation regardless of what is done. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality thatan inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flowcalorimetry. Of course, Levi knew that from TP1 – he was told this by dozens of peers -that he should have performed this task, yet he did not. There is no validexcuse … other than gross incompetence. The spiel that the temperature of the tube must maintain thermal equilibriumis no excuse. A long copper sheet, bent into a jacket with surrounding watercoil extending over the lead-tubes, and surrounded by Aerogel superinsulation could be mounted 20 cm away so as not to affect thermalequilibrium. It would retain 95% of heat (all forms) to be removed by thefluid. Instead, we are left with a credibility disaster for LENR in general. CanMizuno right the ship? _ From: Jones Beene There is one other important detail in the discussion oflight vs. temperature – the coherence or semi-coherence of the radiation.This is a step above “intensity”. If it is semi-coherent, the term “superradiance” is used.Even “invisible” IR light can be extremely visible – blindingly visible,when it is coherent or semi-coherent. A CO2 laser is all the evidence you need of that. The IRphotons of this laser are completely invisible to the human eye - unlesscoherent where they show up as red. The CO2 laser is important because this wavelength is nearor identical to where NASA thinks SPP are most easily formed. Of course,that could be because they are using a CO2 laser :-) From: H Veeder _Colour temperature_ refers to the *peak*emission of a blackbody whose temperature produces a peak emission withinthe visible spectrum. e.g. The surface of the sun is about 6000Cand the peek emission is white light so it has color temperature of white. _Incadescence_ is the *visible* lightemitted by a black body at a given temperature. An iron at 800C glows red but the peakemission is in the infrared .
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
Harry-- I have the same trusting assumption that your have professed. However, I do not consider mine are completely naive, nor absolutely founded on solid facts. Bob - Original Message - From: H Veeder To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Jed-- I hope you get an answer. This question has caused me to resist getting into a give and take about the camera data. The thermocouple must have been used to calibrate the camera at operating conditions, IF IT WERE WORKING. The lack of this obvious information suggests the T/C was not working properly. They either work on don't from my experience. The question being so simple puts them in a bind to answer. If it didn't work they should, say so. If it did work properly they should provide the data. Rossi claims there were millions of data points. It would nice to request that they publish their data base of all the raw data. It all can't be in the published document if there was as much as suggested by Rossi. However, he may have had some restrictions on the data they could publish to protect revealing the detailed operating conditions. The researchers doing the test would have access to the data as it was accumulated and would have used it to justify their conclusions, despite leaving room for skeptics to rail on. I start with the naive (trusting) assumption that everything the authors of the Lugano report say about the reactor is based on fact rather than guesswork, but they can't reveal why they know them to be factual because it might reveal important IP. Unfortunately, such a situation will stimulate the more distrustful skeptics to imagine incompetence and/or misdirection. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Consider the difference between the sun at noon and the sun at dawn/dusk. The interior of the HotCat glows white but from the outside it glows red like a sunrise because it is shinning through an atmosphere of alumina. It does not work that way. If the outside surface temperature really is 1400 deg C, then the outside surface material should be incandescent white. It does not matter what the inside temperature is. All materials glow with the same incandescent color at a given temperature. That is what the textbooks claim. I doubt any light is shining through the alumina, but even if it is, the light from incandescence of the outside alumina material itself should be white. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Craig Haynie cchayniepub...@gmail.com wrote: The temperature of a Pāhoehoe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Lava#P.C4.81hoehoe lava flow can be estimated by observing its color. The result agrees well with measured temperatures of lava flows at about 1,000 to 1,200 °C (1,830 to 2,190 °F). And it is white, as you see. It is white underneath where it is hottest. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. I think flow calorimetry with this device at these temperatures would be problematic. For one thing, you could not see the device, which might even be dangerous. I think the present method is better, although it may not have been done right. It should be confirmed with the internal thermocouples. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Dave, I did some calculations based on some formulas provided here: http://dsp.stackexchange.com/questions/8949/how-do-i-calculate-the-color-temperature-of-the-light-source-illuminating-an-ima I set up a spreadsheet to do the calculations, and pulled the RGB values with a graphics editor (Gimp). The hottest spot I could find according to those formulas was 1792C. This was based on the picture taken in the dark. Given that it is obvious that there are temperature variation across the tube, it does not seem unreasonable for 1400C average. The wire coming in the left side calculates to 2014C. Best, Jack On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 1:09 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I looked at that reference and went away about as confused as ever. Did you look at the two references that I found? I think it is important for us to follow up on this issue since it seems to be one that will not go away. Do metals appear differently than the materials that Mizuno was viewing? I found the view of the casting holes to be particularly interesting. They resemble a black body by being deep and surrounded by hot material. The color within these holes is very consistent from hole to hole and is very orange. The other reference I found also showed orange as the expected color. Two separate references should offer strong support for a concept. Please take time to look at the references I have listed and I suspect you might change your position. Keep in mind that what I found tends to support what the testers observed. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, Oct 19, 2014 1:57 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Why would you expect the device to look white hot when a known metal casting looks orange hot at approximately the same temperature? What am I missing? I think you are wrong. Mizuno and one other person with experience working with glass told me that 1300 deg C incandescence is white. That is what this and other references show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence#mediaviewer/File:Incandescence_Color.jpg Incandescence in all materials including solids and liquids has about the same color. The color is independent of the material. Mizuno said materials at 1300 deg C are so bright, they will hurt your eyes if you look at them. You need a welder's mask. As noted, we do not known when the photo was taken. I would say the temperature is 800 to 900 deg C. That is more than the calibration temperature. Maybe this was at the beginning of the test, before excess heat turned on. I have the impression from the graphs that it turns on quickly, so I doubt that is the case. If the authors do not address this question and tell us what color it was, after a while I am going assume they made a mistake, and I am going to ignore this test. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Bob Cook wrote. Glass is not a black body in my estimation, and I would expect it to look different at any given temperature from a true black body. Having looked inside 100 operating glass melters at temperatures ranging from ambient to 1500C, at any temperature where things start to glow there is not much visible difference between the various materials. For example at 1500C everything looks blindingly white, the molten glass surface, the silica superstrucxture, the AZS refactory side walls. There must be some differences because one can still make out the edges of the refractory blocks and batch piles floating on the molten surface. It seems to me there is more a difference in brightness than color between 1400 - 1500C. Things start looking red at much lower temperatures. I would quess the E-Cat in the famous photo was 700-900C Jed, I agree with what you wrote about flow calorimetry being difficult. It would have been sensible to get confirmation of the temperature, at least at one spot, by a thermocouple. I wonder if we have the whole story. That number of people working that long should have figured out some way to confirm the temperature indicated by the camera. I know I would. FOr one thing, I have found the geopmetry of the surface upsets the readings and the surface sure wasn't flat.
RE: [Vo]:Color Temperature
From: Jed Rothwell The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. I think flow calorimetry with this device at these temperatures would be problematic. For one thing, you could not see the device, which might even be dangerous. I think the present method is better, although it may not have been done right. It should be confirmed with the internal thermocouples. Well, catch-22 they used an internal thermocouple - and apparently took data from a perfect location, which could “see” down the axis of the tube, presumably the hottest place in the system, but chose not to release the data. What excuse can they have - other than the thermocouple data does not support the thermography (therefore the thermocouple failed)? Ahern proposed a calorimeter which would not compromise the integrity of the ceramic tube. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Any directly connected sensor may be unreliable and erratic because of the production of intense RG radiation especially in a reactor without RF shielding. The only way to get good temperature data is through remote sensing, On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Jed Rothwell The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. I think flow calorimetry with this device at these temperatures would be problematic. For one thing, you could not see the device, which might even be dangerous. I think the present method is better, although it may not have been done right. It should be confirmed with the internal thermocouples. Well, catch-22 they used an internal thermocouple - and apparently took data from a perfect location, which could “see” down the axis of the tube, presumably the hottest place in the system, but chose not to release the data. What excuse can they have - other than the thermocouple data does not support the thermography (therefore the thermocouple failed)? Ahern proposed a calorimeter which would not compromise the integrity of the ceramic tube. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Jones-- Common practice would be to calibrate the thermocouple before and after the test. I think that, if the thermocouple were not working it would be obvious and there would be data to confirm it did not work. The differences between the camera and the thermocouple, if it worked, should be explained. A report addendum is common. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:24 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:Color Temperature From: Jed Rothwell The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. I think flow calorimetry with this device at these temperatures would be problematic. For one thing, you could not see the device, which might even be dangerous. I think the present method is better, although it may not have been done right. It should be confirmed with the internal thermocouples. Well, catch-22 they used an internal thermocouple - and apparently took data from a perfect location, which could “see” down the axis of the tube, presumably the hottest place in the system, but chose not to release the data. What excuse can they have - other than the thermocouple data does not support the thermography (therefore the thermocouple failed)? Ahern proposed a calorimeter which would not compromise the integrity of the ceramic tube. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Common practice would be to calibrate the thermocouple before and after the test. I think that, if the thermocouple were not working it would be obvious . . . If the thermocouple were not working the cell would overheat, wouldn't it? I think it is a thermostat. That's my reading of the report. Maybe it is only used with pulsed input, which they did not employ. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
Axil-- From my experience, I would doubt that is a major concern for these simple thermocouples. It there were a 50,000 watt antenna near by you might get a pick up which could be detected in the voltage output of the thermocouple. However, the external leads of a T/C are generally in a metal sheath and insulated from each other by a potting compound or other insulating material. The sheath would tend to shield the leads from RF (RG?) radiation. Axil, I think your concern is unfounded. Bob - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature Any directly connected sensor may be unreliable and erratic because of the production of intense RG radiation especially in a reactor without RF shielding. The only way to get good temperature data is through remote sensing, On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: From: Jed Rothwell The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. I think flow calorimetry with this device at these temperatures would be problematic. For one thing, you could not see the device, which might even be dangerous. I think the present method is better, although it may not have been done right. It should be confirmed with the internal thermocouples. Well, catch-22 they used an internal thermocouple - and apparently took data from a perfect location, which could “see” down the axis of the tube, presumably the hottest place in the system, but chose not to release the data. What excuse can they have - other than the thermocouple data does not support the thermography (therefore the thermocouple failed)? Ahern proposed a calorimeter which would not compromise the integrity of the ceramic tube. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
There are types of magnetic EMF that cannot be shielded. Furthermore, if large amounts of electrons are being produced as a reaction byproduct, their chaotic interaction with the directly connected sensors and connectors may not be predictable over time. There may be an agreement in place between Rossi and the testers to keep this EMF based behavior of the Rossi reactor confidential to protect Industrial Heat's intellectual property claims. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:52 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil-- From my experience, I would doubt that is a major concern for these simple thermocouples. It there were a 50,000 watt antenna near by you might get a pick up which could be detected in the voltage output of the thermocouple. However, the external leads of a T/C are generally in a metal sheath and insulated from each other by a potting compound or other insulating material. The sheath would tend to shield the leads from RF (RG?) radiation. Axil, I think your concern is unfounded. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:33 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature Any directly connected sensor may be unreliable and erratic because of the production of intense RG radiation especially in a reactor without RF shielding. The only way to get good temperature data is through remote sensing, On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: *From:* Jed Rothwell The discussion of color and temperature only mask the glaring reality that an inexpensive way to be certain of thermal gain in the TP2 device is flow calorimetry. I think flow calorimetry with this device at these temperatures would be problematic. For one thing, you could not see the device, which might even be dangerous. I think the present method is better, although it may not have been done right. It should be confirmed with the internal thermocouples. Well, catch-22 they used an internal thermocouple - and apparently took data from a perfect location, which could “see” down the axis of the tube, presumably the hottest place in the system, but chose not to release the data. What excuse can they have - other than the thermocouple data does not support the thermography (therefore the thermocouple failed)? Ahern proposed a calorimeter which would not compromise the integrity of the ceramic tube. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Consider the difference between the sun at noon and the sun at dawn/dusk. The interior of the HotCat glows white but from the outside it glows red like a sunrise because it is shinning through an atmosphere of alumina. It does not work that way. If the outside surface temperature really is 1400 deg C, then the outside surface material should be incandescent white. It does not matter what the inside temperature is. All materials glow with the same incandescent color at a given temperature. That is what the textbooks claim. I doubt any light is shining through the alumina, but even if it is, the light from incandescence of the outside alumina material itself should be white. - Jed This is true for an incandescent body, but remember the reactor may not be an incandescent body. An incandescent body passively heats itself by receiving energy from an external energy source. e.g. clay pot in a hot kiln or a resistor with current flowing throw it. On the other hand the Sun actively heats itself, but if it is identified as a white incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated by 4600C (6000C - 1400C). Similarly, if the HotCat actively heats itself but it is identified with a red incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated. The Stephan-Blotzman law is valuable because it is agnostic on the issue of how a body comes to have a surface temperature. It is not a relationship between input power and output power. It is a relationship between the surface temperature and output power. Attaching the label Incandescent to a body comes with an assumption about the underlying dynamics which bring about a body's temperature. The presumption of incandescence has probably been true of most investigations of LENR/CF heat anomalies but this new report shows it is an inaccurate assumption. Harry
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
The surface temperature of the Sun is effectively several millions of degrees. The atmosphere of the Sun is heated by magnetic fields from deep within the core of the Sun. Yes, the surface of the Sun is cool, but the roiling Corona is the plasma that produces the bright white light that we see here on earth. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 7:27 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Consider the difference between the sun at noon and the sun at dawn/dusk. The interior of the HotCat glows white but from the outside it glows red like a sunrise because it is shinning through an atmosphere of alumina. It does not work that way. If the outside surface temperature really is 1400 deg C, then the outside surface material should be incandescent white. It does not matter what the inside temperature is. All materials glow with the same incandescent color at a given temperature. That is what the textbooks claim. I doubt any light is shining through the alumina, but even if it is, the light from incandescence of the outside alumina material itself should be white. - Jed This is true for an incandescent body, but remember the reactor may not be an incandescent body. An incandescent body passively heats itself by receiving energy from an external energy source. e.g. clay pot in a hot kiln or a resistor with current flowing throw it. On the other hand the Sun actively heats itself, but if it is identified as a white incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated by 4600C (6000C - 1400C). Similarly, if the HotCat actively heats itself but it is identified with a red incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated. The Stephan-Blotzman law is valuable because it is agnostic on the issue of how a body comes to have a surface temperature. It is not a relationship between input power and output power. It is a relationship between the surface temperature and output power. Attaching the label Incandescent to a body comes with an assumption about the underlying dynamics which bring about a body's temperature. The presumption of incandescence has probably been true of most investigations of LENR/CF heat anomalies but this new report shows it is an inaccurate assumption. Harry
[Vo]:Japan's homeless recruited for murky Fukushima clean-up
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/30/us-fukushima-workers-idUSBRE9BT00520131230 Japan's homeless recruited for murky Fukushima clean-up
Re: [Vo]:Japan's homeless recruited for murky Fukushima clean-up
Yup. This has often been in the Japanese news. The labor contractors are known for having many tattoos (meaning they are gangsters). - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
I think the fact you can the see the possible outline of a coil and possibly fins shows a difference in visible//translucent light radiation in those areas. I also find quite a bit of research on translucent sintered alumina and its ability to scatter light through rayleigh and mie scattering. Sintered alumina can appear translucent yellow depending upon how it is sintered. http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/175704/files/NanoporeCharacterizationAndOpticalModelingOfTransparentPolycrystallineAlumina.pdf http://repository.tudelft.nl/assets/uuid:ad82e9ad-f44f-41d6-86eb-8e64d2e0086b/MS-21.908.pdf Whether this has any bearing on visible color @ high temp in the photos I am not sure. Somebody needs to heat some! Stewart On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Consider the difference between the sun at noon and the sun at dawn/dusk. The interior of the HotCat glows white but from the outside it glows red like a sunrise because it is shinning through an atmosphere of alumina. It does not work that way. If the outside surface temperature really is 1400 deg C, then the outside surface material should be incandescent white. It does not matter what the inside temperature is. All materials glow with the same incandescent color at a given temperature. That is what the textbooks claim. I doubt any light is shining through the alumina, but even if it is, the light from incandescence of the outside alumina material itself should be white. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat
Thanks for the report Axil. That is an impressive shift and certainly not coincidental. Gas is $2.90 at the pump. Is this just a reaction to the idea of cheap fusion energy? I'm still reading Vortex-L although I don't have as much time to participate as I would like. I haven't abandoned the BEC ideas, and always read yours with enthusiasm. I've been thinking a lot about Storm's ideas on the NEA stuff, and started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson, and other 1D string quantum chains and trying to derive interaction probabilities. I need more time to dedicate to the math, but using Y. E. Kim and crew as a starting point, and the replacing X, with X[chain], I'm hoping to see a Phi for S=0 on the X[chain]. Has anyone looked at Storm's predictions about Rossi's experiment? Have Fun, Chuck On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=394 The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat While looking in the logs after publishing the E-Cat report I found out that within minutes it was downloaded by an IP number owned by Blackrock. Within minutes after that oil futures started to fall and have stayed volatile since… [image: lugano] http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lugano.png
Re: [Vo]:Japan's homeless recruited for murky Fukushima clean-up
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Yup. This has often been in the Japanese news. The labor contractors are known for having many tattoos (meaning they are gangsters). Yakuza?
Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat
started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson ***Sounds like my V1DLLBEC theory. https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg95060.html et al On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:36 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the report Axil. That is an impressive shift and certainly not coincidental. Gas is $2.90 at the pump. Is this just a reaction to the idea of cheap fusion energy? I'm still reading Vortex-L although I don't have as much time to participate as I would like. I haven't abandoned the BEC ideas, and always read yours with enthusiasm. I've been thinking a lot about Storm's ideas on the NEA stuff, and started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson, and other 1D string quantum chains and trying to derive interaction probabilities. I need more time to dedicate to the math, but using Y. E. Kim and crew as a starting point, and the replacing X, with X[chain], I'm hoping to see a Phi for S=0 on the X[chain]. Has anyone looked at Storm's predictions about Rossi's experiment? Have Fun, Chuck On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=394 The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat While looking in the logs after publishing the E-Cat report I found out that within minutes it was downloaded by an IP number owned by Blackrock. Within minutes after that oil futures started to fall and have stayed volatile since… [image: lugano] http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lugano.png
Re: [Vo]:Color Temperature
On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Furthermore, if large amounts of electrons are being produced as a reaction byproduct ... How is conservation of charge maintained in this context? Eric
Re: [Vo]:Japan's homeless recruited for murky Fukushima clean-up
Pretty sick...bless this neo-liberal free market nightmare we find ourselves enmeshed in. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Yup. This has often been in the Japanese news. The labor contractors are known for having many tattoos (meaning they are gangsters). Yakuza?
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
Other examples of light emitting bodies which do not follow the incandascent temperature rule are phosphorescent and fluorescent bodies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorescence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescence Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 7:27 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Consider the difference between the sun at noon and the sun at dawn/dusk. The interior of the HotCat glows white but from the outside it glows red like a sunrise because it is shinning through an atmosphere of alumina. It does not work that way. If the outside surface temperature really is 1400 deg C, then the outside surface material should be incandescent white. It does not matter what the inside temperature is. All materials glow with the same incandescent color at a given temperature. That is what the textbooks claim. I doubt any light is shining through the alumina, but even if it is, the light from incandescence of the outside alumina material itself should be white. - Jed This is true for an incandescent body, but remember the reactor may not be an incandescent body. An incandescent body passively heats itself by receiving energy from an external energy source. e.g. clay pot in a hot kiln or a resistor with current flowing throw it. On the other hand the Sun actively heats itself, but if it is identified as a white incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated by 4600C (6000C - 1400C). Similarly, if the HotCat actively heats itself but it is identified with a red incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated. The Stephan-Blotzman law is valuable because it is agnostic on the issue of how a body comes to have a surface temperature. It is not a relationship between input power and output power. It is a relationship between the surface temperature and output power. Attaching the label Incandescent to a body comes with an assumption about the underlying dynamics which bring about a body's temperature. The presumption of incandescence has probably been true of most investigations of LENR/CF heat anomalies but this new report shows it is an inaccurate assumption. Harry
Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat
When a reaction occurs, Do the lattice atoms on the end of the BEC chain participate? It's fascinating to speculate on this. ***Here's a speculation. Inside of a BEC, fusion takes place. And due to the nature of a BEC, the nuclear reactive products (gammas) are dispersed quite evenly.But some of those products are still so energetic that they generate very direct rays into the metal matrix in such a way that they transmute the products of the host metal, all the way down to Nickel62 in Rossi's case. Why are those nuclear reactive products so directed? Because they were LINEAR BECs, with only one direction of energy outflow: at either end of the line BEC. Also, interesting interactions take place between linear BECS and the rest of the bulk mass--collisions, spin transfers, BEC growth, and chemical pushback. All of which generate heat but no gammas to speak of. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 9:16 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the reference Kevin. I see you and Axil really got into this idea. I read your-all's whole thread exchange and it's inspiring. What I also should add is that Storm is inspiring as well. I really asked him several times what he meant by NAE (the Nuclear Active Environment) and it was never clear to me what he meant until I saw a youtube video of him describing it at one of the CF conferences. If I understand the jist of that, he is claiming that at dislocations, certain metal crystals, D or H atoms will fill the dislocation. At the dislocations, there is enough electron screening that the particles in dislocation can interact strongly. Just to pitch it out there, Y.E. Kim and his students have already worked through his N-Body BECs (N100) and found some interesting outcomes.The reason BECs are so important is that is when the PSI of the wave function geometrically extended and |PSI^2| is the probability of finding a particle at a particular position. When a superposition of PSI's occurs (overlapping waves), the overlap describes a probability that interaction can occur. That interaction will probably be electromagnetic, but it can also be by strong interactions if E/M is screened. In a BEC every particle overlaps with every-other particle, and geometrically the PSI's can be huge; mm in size. The overlaps can be very large and the probabilities for interaction by strong force component of the wave function can be large too. In my mind, if you have a BEC of D ions, you will have fusion. The same concept could even apply to the core of the sun. NAE's are Nuclear Active Environments, or lattice dislocation (environments), that are Nuclear active. It's a location that is conducive to an N-body nuclear interaction between fusing objects. Dr. Storm suggests lattice dislocations along some crystal direction like a 010 or a 001 ... could form the environment for an N-body interaction. While Kim has theory of N-body, he doesn't have any theory on a geometrically constrained BEC. Say an N-body reaction on the 011 lattice defect for example. When a reaction occurs, Do the lattice atoms on the end of the BEC chain participate? It's fascinating to speculate on this. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson ***Sounds like my V1DLLBEC theory. https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg95060.html et al On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:36 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the report Axil. That is an impressive shift and certainly not coincidental. Gas is $2.90 at the pump. Is this just a reaction to the idea of cheap fusion energy? I'm still reading Vortex-L although I don't have as much time to participate as I would like. I haven't abandoned the BEC ideas, and always read yours with enthusiasm. I've been thinking a lot about Storm's ideas on the NEA stuff, and started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson, and other 1D string quantum chains and trying to derive interaction probabilities. I need more time to dedicate to the math, but using Y. E. Kim and crew as a starting point, and the replacing X, with X[chain], I'm hoping to see a Phi for S=0 on the X[chain]. Has anyone looked at Storm's predictions about Rossi's experiment? Have Fun, Chuck On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=394 The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat While looking in the logs after publishing the E-Cat report I found out that within minutes it was downloaded by an IP number owned by Blackrock. Within minutes after that oil futures started to fall and have stayed volatile since… [image: lugano] http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lugano.png
Re: [Vo]:Re: Color Temperature
Many different types of Luminescence are listed here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminescence quote Luminescence is emission of light by a substance not resulting from heat; it is thus a form of cold body radiation. It can be caused by chemical reactions, electrical energy, subatomic motions, or stress on a crystal. This distinguishes luminescence fromincandescence, which is light emitted by a substance as a result of heating. Historically, radioactivity was thought of as a form of radio-luminescence, although it is today considered to be separate since it involves more than electromagnetic radiation. The term 'luminescence' was introduced in 1888 by Eilhard Wiedemann On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 1:16 AM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Other examples of light emitting bodies which do not follow the incandascent temperature rule are phosphorescent and fluorescent bodies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorescence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescence Harry On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 7:27 PM, H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Consider the difference between the sun at noon and the sun at dawn/dusk. The interior of the HotCat glows white but from the outside it glows red like a sunrise because it is shinning through an atmosphere of alumina. It does not work that way. If the outside surface temperature really is 1400 deg C, then the outside surface material should be incandescent white. It does not matter what the inside temperature is. All materials glow with the same incandescent color at a given temperature. That is what the textbooks claim. I doubt any light is shining through the alumina, but even if it is, the light from incandescence of the outside alumina material itself should be white. - Jed This is true for an incandescent body, but remember the reactor may not be an incandescent body. An incandescent body passively heats itself by receiving energy from an external energy source. e.g. clay pot in a hot kiln or a resistor with current flowing throw it. On the other hand the Sun actively heats itself, but if it is identified as a white incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated by 4600C (6000C - 1400C). Similarly, if the HotCat actively heats itself but it is identified with a red incandescent body then its surface temperature will be underestimated. The Stephan-Blotzman law is valuable because it is agnostic on the issue of how a body comes to have a surface temperature. It is not a relationship between input power and output power. It is a relationship between the surface temperature and output power. Attaching the label Incandescent to a body comes with an assumption about the underlying dynamics which bring about a body's temperature. The presumption of incandescence has probably been true of most investigations of LENR/CF heat anomalies but this new report shows it is an inaccurate assumption. Harry
Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat
Thanks for the reference Kevin. I see you and Axil really got into this idea. I read your-all's whole thread exchange and it's inspiring. What I also should add is that Storm is inspiring as well. I really asked him several times what he meant by NAE (the Nuclear Active Environment) and it was never clear to me what he meant until I saw a youtube video of him describing it at one of the CF conferences. If I understand the jist of that, he is claiming that at dislocations, certain metal crystals, D or H atoms will fill the dislocation. At the dislocations, there is enough electron screening that the particles in dislocation can interact strongly. Just to pitch it out there, Y.E. Kim and his students have already worked through his N-Body BECs (N100) and found some interesting outcomes.The reason BECs are so important is that is when the PSI of the wave function geometrically extended and |PSI^2| is the probability of finding a particle at a particular position. When a superposition of PSI's occurs (overlapping waves), the overlap describes a probability that interaction can occur. That interaction will probably be electromagnetic, but it can also be by strong interactions if E/M is screened. In a BEC every particle overlaps with every-other particle, and geometrically the PSI's can be huge; mm in size. The overlaps can be very large and the probabilities for interaction by strong force component of the wave function can be large too. In my mind, if you have a BEC of D ions, you will have fusion. The same concept could even apply to the core of the sun. NAE's are Nuclear Active Environments, or lattice dislocation (environments), that are Nuclear active. It's a location that is conducive to an N-body nuclear interaction between fusing objects. Dr. Storm suggests lattice dislocations along some crystal direction like a 010 or a 001 ... could form the environment for an N-body interaction. While Kim has theory of N-body, he doesn't have any theory on a geometrically constrained BEC. Say an N-body reaction on the 011 lattice defect for example. When a reaction occurs, Do the lattice atoms on the end of the BEC chain participate? It's fascinating to speculate on this. On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson ***Sounds like my V1DLLBEC theory. https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg95060.html et al On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:36 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the report Axil. That is an impressive shift and certainly not coincidental. Gas is $2.90 at the pump. Is this just a reaction to the idea of cheap fusion energy? I'm still reading Vortex-L although I don't have as much time to participate as I would like. I haven't abandoned the BEC ideas, and always read yours with enthusiasm. I've been thinking a lot about Storm's ideas on the NEA stuff, and started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson, and other 1D string quantum chains and trying to derive interaction probabilities. I need more time to dedicate to the math, but using Y. E. Kim and crew as a starting point, and the replacing X, with X[chain], I'm hoping to see a Phi for S=0 on the X[chain]. Has anyone looked at Storm's predictions about Rossi's experiment? Have Fun, Chuck On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=394 The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat While looking in the logs after publishing the E-Cat report I found out that within minutes it was downloaded by an IP number owned by Blackrock. Within minutes after that oil futures started to fall and have stayed volatile since… [image: lugano] http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lugano.png
