date:20160406

Once again it is not judging about how well it worked for you. Just saying
that there is no guarantee coming from being licensed.
I could tell you the opposite experience when common sense did not give me
a license for brokering companies because I had no experience in Real
Estate sales.
There is not any negative coming from a license. It is just not a
qualification / guarantee..

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:47 PM, Frank Znidarsic  wrote:

>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Frank Znidarsic 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2016 12:30 am
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor
> Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.
>
> Sorry but
> license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees
>
>
>
> Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test
> upon graduation called the EIT.
> About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.
>
> Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional
> engineer.  I was lucky to get this.
>
> Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam
> several times and failed each time.
> I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.
>
> There is nothing simple about it.
>
> Frank Znidarsic PE
>
> I worked 15 years at large utility doing a good job.  My job was
> eliminated in a downsizing.  I complained,  I was one of the few engineers
> with a PE license and military service.  Human resources told me point
> blank "affirmative action trumps both military survive and a PE licence."
>  Hey, that's not what they told me while I was in the military.  What about
> that builds character stuff!
>
> My cozen Bill kept his job and got more offers than I ever did.  How do
> you do it Bill?  He explained that he is a disabled vet.  Disabled vet
> trumps affirmative action, PE license, and everything else.  He advised
> that I should have shot myself in the foot when I was on active duty.
>
> There you have it.  I may soon retire my license and my foot is beginning
> to hurt.
>
> Frank Z
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Not minimizing the test.
Just not thinking a license is indicative of good or bad.
if you pass in PA are you then suddenly no good in FL.?

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:30 PM, Frank Znidarsic  wrote:

> Sorry but
> license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees
>
>
>
> Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test
> upon graduation called the EIT.
> About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.
>
> Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional
> engineer.  I was lucky to get this.
>
> Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam
> several times and failed each time.
> I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.
>
> There is nothing simple about it.
>
> Frank Znidarsic PE
>

Fwd: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Frank Znidarsic

-Original Message-
From: Frank Znidarsic 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2016 12:30 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

Sorry but
license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees

Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test upon 
graduation called the EIT.
About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.

Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional 
engineer.  I was lucky to get this.

Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam several 
times and failed each time.
I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.

There is nothing simple about it.  

Frank Znidarsic PE

I worked 15 years at large utility doing a good job.  My job was eliminated in 
a downsizing.  I complained,  I was one of the few engineers with a PE license 
and military service.  Human resources told me point blank "affirmative action 
trumps both military survive and a PE licence."  Hey, that's not what they told 
me while I was in the military.  What about that builds character stuff!

My cozen Bill kept his job and got more offers than I ever did.  How do you do 
it Bill?  He explained that he is a disabled vet.  Disabled vet trumps 
affirmative action, PE license, and everything else.  He advised that I should 
have shot myself in the foot when I was on active duty.

There you have it.  I may soon retire my license and my foot is beginning to 
hurt.

Frank Z

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Frank Znidarsic


Sorry but
license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees




Not so.  I am licensed professional engineer in PA.  I had to take a test upon 
graduation called the EIT.
About 1/2 of the engineers failed.  I passed.


Then I had to work for 5 years under the supervision of a professional 
engineer.  I was lucky to get this.


Finally I had to take the PE exam.  Many tried to the pass the exam several 
times and failed each time.
I studied for 6 months.  It was a hard exam.


There is nothing simple about it.  


Frank Znidarsic PE

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Jones ,
My evaluation of twitter is like yours.
However, are we not wrong. People actually pay that kind of money for
twitter. Or . . .

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:57 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: Craig Haynie
>
> > Actually, this whole mystery could be the result of a failure by IH to
> raise the expected $89 million to finalize the deal.
>
> Maybe, but if Rossi really has the goods ... given that useless concepts
> like "Twitter" are valued at $24 billion IPO with almost no sustainable
> income, then Rossi would be smart to simply cancel IH's license and go for
> his own $500 billion IPO next month. Let IH sue him if they don't like the
> cancellation.
>
> The fact he is even pursuing the lawsuit is insane if the technology is
> solid, since his Lawyer will cost him more than an IPO, out of pocket (the
> Banks get their cut at the end). This little bit of financial realism is
> indicative that Rossi does not believe his own COP=50 nonsense.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

2016-04-06 Thread Frank Acland

I think this might be the same Henry Johnson:

http://hwjlaw.net/who-we-are.html

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:12 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> This link [1] suggests that Henry Johnson is possibly a lawyer, i.e.,
> someone you would expect to register unrelated companies:
>
> "Note - registrations for dissimilar business entities suggest the
> registered agent is a lawyer or third party filing on behalf of the
> business owner(s)"
>
> Eric
>
>
> [1] https://www.statelog.com/j-m-chemical-products-inc-boca-raton-fl
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Alan Fletcher  wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/henry-w-johnson-14210.aspx
>>
>> Coral Springs, FL — President for Bellwether Global Corporation
>>
>> Henry Johnson has been associated with forty-three companies, according
>> to public records. The companies were formed over a forty-five year period
>> with the most recent being incorporated one year ago in March of 2015.
>> Fifteen of the companies are still active while the remaining twenty-eight
>> are now listed as inactive.
>>
>> Including :
>>
>>
>> https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/leonardo-corporation/66632333.aspx
>>
>> Johnson President, Rossi CEO
>>
>>
>> https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/refc-real-estate-corp/137192381.aspx
>>
>> Johnson President, Rossi CEO
>> --
>> *From: *"Eric Walker" 
>> *To: *"vortex-l" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:18:22 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer
>>
>> Interestingly, that looks like a normal business park:
>>
>> https://goo.gl/V4AOLX
>>
>> I noticed this registration information for JM Chemical Products in Boca
>> Raton:
>> https://www.statelog.com/j-m-chemical-products-inc-boca-raton-fl
>>
>> The registration took place in July 2014.  According to the lawsuit, IH
>> and IPH were delinquent in finding a facility to test the 1MW E-Cat, and
>> Rossi had to find one himself.  Here is what the suit then says:
>>
>> 63. Despite IH's and IPH's continued failure to secure an adequate
>> testing facility, ROSSI took it upon himself to locate and secure a
>> location in which to conduct the Guaranteed Performance Test, as well as
>> obtain the requisite regulatory approvals for the operation of the ECat
>> Unit.
>> 64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in
>> Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the
>> Guaranteed Performance Test and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand
>> Dollars ($1,000.00) per day for the energy produced by the E-Cat Unit
>> during the Guaranteed Performance Test
>>
>>
>> So the company where the test took place (JM Chemical Products) was
>> located on or before August 2014.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>


-- 
Frank Acland
Publisher, E-Cat World

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Jed,
You do not have to be impressed. Just that is not of any value. COP 6
although we talk about a conservative number. I am not licences but COP 50
I can detect particularly in a 350 day test. I just do not see the reason
to attack the person.

I appreciate your experience. It does have nothing to do with this report
or any licensing. I can pass the exam just takes some time and effort.

The problem is that you do judge people. You have no ground for that.
Meeting people at a conference - I like and believe them offering me a
beer. Then I am at home thinking - too fast. IH is an organization and know
absolutely nothing.





Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>
> As it happens, I just posted a message describing some of the reasons I am
> not impressed.
>
> If you read the report, and you were impressed, I think you need to learn
> a little more about calorimetry. It was as bad as the Lugano report. Some
> of the same mistakes were in both.
>
>
>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>
> A license and the proper procedures can be the difference between life and
> death. The exams are NOT simple. I have seen them, and I am sure I would
> fail them.
>
> I have never worked with large industrial equipment. But I have been in
> factories, and in ship engine rooms. I have talked to OSHA inspectors and
> HVAC engineers. My late father was fireman first class in the engine room
> of a steamship built around 1910, and he told me a lot about it. He did
> that for 6 years until his arm was crushed in an accident. There are not
> one, not two, but DOZENS of ways you can kill yourself, blow up the
> building or sink the ship when you make a mistake with a boiler. Even
> today, with all the automatic controls, it is still dangerous. And yes, you
> can confuse 200 kW with 1 MW (or vice versa) by doing it wrong. That is why
> boilers blow up. Look at Defkalion for an example of how badly you can make
> a mistake doing industrial scale calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything.
>>
>
> I have met with those people at conferences. I can judge their knowledge.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

This link [1] suggests that Henry Johnson is possibly a lawyer, i.e.,
someone you would expect to register unrelated companies:

"Note - registrations for dissimilar business entities suggest the
registered agent is a lawyer or third party filing on behalf of the
business owner(s)"

Eric


[1] https://www.statelog.com/j-m-chemical-products-inc-boca-raton-fl


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Alan Fletcher  wrote:

>
> https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/henry-w-johnson-14210.aspx
>
> Coral Springs, FL — President for Bellwether Global Corporation
>
> Henry Johnson has been associated with forty-three companies, according to
> public records. The companies were formed over a forty-five year period
> with the most recent being incorporated one year ago in March of 2015.
> Fifteen of the companies are still active while the remaining twenty-eight
> are now listed as inactive.
>
> Including :
>
>
> https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/leonardo-corporation/66632333.aspx
>
> Johnson President, Rossi CEO
>
>
> https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/refc-real-estate-corp/137192381.aspx
>
> Johnson President, Rossi CEO
> --
> *From: *"Eric Walker" 
> *To: *"vortex-l" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:18:22 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer
>
> Interestingly, that looks like a normal business park:
>
> https://goo.gl/V4AOLX
>
> I noticed this registration information for JM Chemical Products in Boca
> Raton:
> https://www.statelog.com/j-m-chemical-products-inc-boca-raton-fl
>
> The registration took place in July 2014.  According to the lawsuit, IH
> and IPH were delinquent in finding a facility to test the 1MW E-Cat, and
> Rossi had to find one himself.  Here is what the suit then says:
>
> 63. Despite IH's and IPH's continued failure to secure an adequate testing
> facility, ROSSI took it upon himself to locate and secure a location in
> which to conduct the Guaranteed Performance Test, as well as obtain the
> requisite regulatory approvals for the operation of the ECat Unit.
> 64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in
> Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the
> Guaranteed Performance Test and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand
> Dollars ($1,000.00) per day for the energy produced by the E-Cat Unit
> during the Guaranteed Performance Test
>
>
> So the company where the test took place (JM Chemical Products) was
> located on or before August 2014.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

2016-04-06 Thread Alan Fletcher

https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/henry-w-johnson-14210.aspx
 

Coral Springs, FL 
— 
President for Bellwether Global Corporation 


Henry Johnson has been associated with forty-three companies, according to 
public records. The companies were formed over a forty-five year period with 
the most recent being incorporated one year ago in March of 2015. Fifteen of 
the companies are still active while the remaining twenty-eight are now listed 
as inactive. 

Including : 

https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/leonardo-corporation/66632333.aspx
 

Johnson President, Rossi CEO 

https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/refc-real-estate-corp/137192381.aspx
 

Johnson President, Rossi CEO 

From: "Eric Walker"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:18:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer 

Interestingly, that looks like a normal business park: 

https://goo.gl/V4AOLX 

I noticed this registration information for JM Chemical Products in Boca Raton: 
https://www.statelog.com/j-m-chemical-products-inc-boca-raton-fl 

The registration took place in July 2014. According to the lawsuit, IH and IPH 
were delinquent in finding a facility to test the 1MW E-Cat, and Rossi had to 
find one himself. Here is what the suit then says: 




63. Despite IH's and IPH's continued failure to secure an adequate testing 
facility, ROSSI took it upon himself to locate and secure a location in which 
to conduct the Guaranteed Performance Test, as well as obtain the requisite 
regulatory approvals for the operation of the ECat Unit. 
64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in 
Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the Guaranteed 
Performance Test and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand Dollars 
($1,000.00) per day for the energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the 
Guaranteed Performance Test 



So the company where the test took place (JM Chemical Products) was located on 
or before August 2014. 

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

The important thing is that this is not a knee-jerk reaction from Rossi.
>
> From the looks of things and based on the number of filings and so on –
> the Silver Law group has put a month or so of work into this already …
> Let’s see, 200 hours at $750/hr already and the clock is ticking…
>

Jones, you were prescient about Penon being involved.  Also, I would not be
surprised if the observation above were true.  If so, there will have been
a falling out well before the March 29 submission of the report by the ERV,
as you point out.  In light of that, the pessimistic readings of IH's
public statement were insightful.

After reading the lawsuit, I offer the following speculation:

   - IH and IPH are not able to pay the 89 million.  Perhaps Woodford
   pulled out after being approached by activist third-parties?
   - The liability of IH and IPH are claimed not to extend Cherokee, so
   there has been a refusal to pay, contrary to Rossi's understanding of
   Darden's and Vaughn's representations that the companies are owned and
   controlled by Cherokee.
   - IH got cold feet about the fact that Penon was the ERV.  Perhaps they
   were informed by some activist third-parties that he's not qualified?
   - IH invested in Brillouin, contrary to Rossi's understanding that IH
   was set up solely as a licensee of Leonardo Corp.'s IP.
   - Rossi is sure that IH have transferred trade secrets to Brillouin.

Does anyone disagree or strongly disagree with any of these possibilities?
Obviously they're speculative, and more information is needed.

There's a lot of other stuff going on in the suit, but I wonder whether
some of it (e.g., the claims of fraud) are simply a pre-emptive bargaining
strategy in anticipation of allegations of fraud that are expected to come
from IH, as others have suggested.

One thing that was a little surprising to me was that the Lugano test does
not appear to have been connected to IH.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Problems with 2012 Penon report

2016-04-06 Thread mixent

In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2016 21:56:03 -0400:
Hi Jed,

Perhaps you just misinterpret what he said. It could also be taken to mean:-
"the output varied between 2.5 and 3.7 kW" rather than that there was a large
error in the measurement. Note that specifying an output power to two
significant digits implies that the error was +- 5 in the third digit.


[snip]
>As I wrote previously:
>
>"It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW."
>
>That's a BIG PROBLEM. Red flag! If I did a study and came up with an answer
>somewhere between 2.5 and 3.7 kW I would not publish it. That is an
>absurdly wide error margin. Narrowing it down in this case is easy. It is
>trivial. You calibrate. You step the cell through 8 or 10 steps at power
>levels ranging from 4 to 8 kW. That range covers the lowest to the highest
>power levels you think the cell is producing.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

-Original Message-
From: Craig Haynie 

> Actually, this whole mystery could be the result of a failure by IH to raise 
> the expected $89 million to finalize the deal. 

Maybe, but if Rossi really has the goods ... given that useless concepts like 
"Twitter" are valued at $24 billion IPO with almost no sustainable income, then 
Rossi would be smart to simply cancel IH's license and go for his own $500 
billion IPO next month. Let IH sue him if they don't like the cancellation.

The fact he is even pursuing the lawsuit is insane if the technology is solid, 
since his Lawyer will cost him more than an IPO, out of pocket (the Banks get 
their cut at the end). This little bit of financial realism is indicative that 
Rossi does not believe his own COP=50 nonsense.

Re: [Vo]:May You Live in Interesting Times

2016-04-06 Thread mixent

In reply to  Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 6 Apr 2016 19:45:53 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>All we need are aliens to land on the White House lawn.  

...all the presidents for the last 70 years have been alien walk-ins, that's why
they all turn grey in office. ;^)

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

Interestingly, that looks like a normal business park:

https://goo.gl/V4AOLX

I noticed this registration information for JM Chemical Products in Boca
Raton:

https://www.statelog.com/j-m-chemical-products-inc-boca-raton-fl

The registration took place in July 2014.  According to the lawsuit, IH and
IPH were delinquent in finding a facility to test the 1MW E-Cat, and Rossi
had to find one himself.  Here is what the suit then says:

63. Despite IH's and IPH's continued failure to secure an adequate testing
facility, ROSSI took it upon himself to locate and secure a location in
which to conduct the Guaranteed Performance Test, as well as obtain the
requisite regulatory approvals for the operation of the ECat Unit.
64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in
Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the
Guaranteed Performance Test and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand
Dollars ($1,000.00) per day for the energy produced by the E-Cat Unit
during the Guaranteed Performance Test

So the company where the test took place (JM Chemical Products) was located
on or before August 2014.

Eric

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Robert Dorr  wrote:

>
> They do have an office at 7900 Glades Rd., Boca Raton, FL. The building is
> definitely large enough to use a 1MW plant.
>
> Robert Dorr
> WA7ZQR
>
>
> At 07:48 PM 4/6/2016, you wrote:
>
> Robert Dorr  wrote:
> Â
> It could be their business office and they have another building/warehouse
> at a different location.
>
>
> Good point. However, I looked them up in various places and this is the
> only address listed. They are categorized as chemical distributors. I
> expect if they had a production facility somewhere large enough to need 1
> MW of steam, it would have be listed in in Florida government business
> directories.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

"‘The attached photo has been made in our factory in Miami, Florida, and 
is related to the plant “E-Cat the New Fire” manufactured by Leonardo 
Corporation to supply thermal energy’"


From 2015:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/05/05/new-image-of-the-e-cat-plant-on-trademark-application/

Craig

On 04/06/2016 11:07 PM, Robert Dorr wrote:


They do have an office at 7900 Glades Rd., Boca Raton, FL. The 
building is definitely large enough to use a 1MW plant.


Robert Dorr
WA7ZQR


At 07:48 PM 4/6/2016, you wrote:

Robert Dorr > wrote:
Â

It could be their business office and they have another
building/warehouse at a different location.


Good point. However, I looked them up in various places and this is 
the only address listed. They are categorized as chemical 
distributors. I expect if they had a production facility somewhere 
large enough to need 1 MW of steam, it would have be listed in in 
Florida government business directories.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer



They do have an office at 7900 Glades Rd., Boca 
Raton, FL. The building is definitely large enough to use a 1MW plant.


Robert Dorr
WA7ZQR


At 07:48 PM 4/6/2016, you wrote:

Robert Dorr <rod...@comcast.net> wrote:
Â
It could be their business office and they have 
another building/warehouse at a different location.



Good point. However, I looked them up in various 
places and this is the only address listed. They 
are categorized as chemical distributors. I 
expect if they had a production facility 
somewhere large enough to need 1 MW of steam, it 
would have be listed in in Florida government business directories.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Actually, this whole mystery could be the result of a failure by IH to 
raise the expected $89 million to finalize the deal. This might explain 
why they took this to the end of the trial.


Craig

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

Robert Dorr  wrote:

> It could be their business office and they have another building/warehouse
> at a different location.
>

Good point. However, I looked them up in various places and this is the
only address listed. They are categorized as chemical distributors. I
expect if they had a production facility somewhere large enough to need 1
MW of steam, it would have be listed in in Florida government business
directories.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Problems with 2012 Penon report

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

I have been complaining that Penon seems incompetent. It is a little unfair for 
me to grouse without substantiating my complaints. Let me briefly describe why 
I am not impressed.

The report is here:

http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf

As I wrote previously:

"It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW."

That's a BIG PROBLEM. Red flag! If I did a study and came up with an answer 
somewhere between 2.5 and 3.7 kW I would not publish it. That is an absurdly 
wide error margin. Narrowing it down in this case is easy. It is trivial. You 
calibrate. You step the cell through 8 or 10 steps at power levels ranging from 
4 to 8 kW. That range covers the lowest to the highest power levels you think 
the cell is producing.

I also said:

"I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the use 
of thermocouple to augment the IR camera."

I just explained why calibrations are important. I do not see them in this 
report. A thermocouple to confirm the IR camera is essential.

"I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I am 
not impressed. . . ."

When I saw that gigantic error margin I thought, "What the hell is going on? 
Why didn't he get a better answer than that?!?" Basically I tossed it aside 
after that.

The method of using an IR camera is crude but it can be done reasonably well, 
with calibrations and a thermocouple and some other precautions. It is not a 
bad start. But I would follow up with flow calorimetry, probably air-flow 
rather than water.

A person who screws up a test on this scale can probably screw up a megawatt 
test too. Measuring megawatts is harder than you might think. It is actually 
easier to measure, say, 100 W with confidence than it is to measure a megawatt.

Jones Beene also got a bad impression from this report. Maybe he tell us his 
reasons.


- Jed

 

Gladly, but it will have to wait till tomorrow. I don’t recall having ever seen 
a report with so little data being taken, and at random intervals to support an 
important conclusion. This is the worst crap ever, and it suggests that the guy 
is not qualified to judge this device, even if the COP were to be huge. My 
associate in Italy can find no evidence that he is a physicist, a PhD or ever 
employed in a nuclear facility, but Italy is a large country, so hopefully his 
CV will turn up soon. 

 

If anyone has seen the verified credentials of Fabio Penon, please post them… 
after all – his opinion is apparently worth about $100,000,000 to AR, so they 
should be spotless and above reproach.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

2016-04-06 Thread Bob Higgins

It is interesting to note that address is right next door to a Pepsi
beverage plant.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:32 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> One of the legal documents lists Rossi's customer:
>
>
> http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf
>
> p. 25
>
> JM Chemical Products
> 7861 NW 46th St,
> Doral, FL 33166
>
> Just offhand, it does not look like the kind of building that needs 1 MW
> of steam:
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/7861+NW+46th+St,+Doral,+FL+33166/@25.8152581,-80.3245231,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqBcXXFAoaY11yYhfOzC59Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x88d9bbd5b1e1203d:0x5e338a9c2e7f100d?hl=en
>
> I see lots of small companies in the building. If you were to put 1 MW of
> steam into one of those offices, in a radiator or as live steam for an
> industrial application, you would cook the occupants. I mean that
> literally; that section of the building would get hot enough to kill and
> cook anyone inside.
>
> This street view photo was taken in Feb. 2014.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer



It could be their business office and they have another 
building/warehouse at a different location.


Robert Dorr
WA7ZQR



At 07:32 PM 4/6/2016, you wrote:

One of the legal documents lists Rossi's customer:

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf

p. 25

JM Chemical Products
7861 NW 46th St,
Doral, FL 33166

Just offhand, it does not look like the kind of building that needs 
1 MW of steam:


https://www.google.com/maps/place/7861+NW+46th+St,+Doral,+FL+33166/@25.8152581,-80.3245231,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqBcXXFAoaY11yYhfOzC59Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x88d9bbd5b1e1203d:0x5e338a9c2e7f100d?hl=en

I see lots of small companies in the building. If you were to put 1 
MW of steam into one of those offices, in a radiator or as live 
steam for an industrial application, you would cook the occupants. I 
mean that literally; that section of the building would get hot 
enough to kill and cook anyone inside.


This street view photo was taken in Feb. 2014.

- Jed

[Vo]:Rossi's customer

One of the legal documents lists Rossi's customer:

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf

p. 25

JM Chemical Products
7861 NW 46th St,
Doral, FL 33166

Just offhand, it does not look like the kind of building that needs 1 MW of
steam:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/7861+NW+46th+St,+Doral,+FL+33166/@25.8152581,-80.3245231,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqBcXXFAoaY11yYhfOzC59Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x88d9bbd5b1e1203d:0x5e338a9c2e7f100d?hl=en

I see lots of small companies in the building. If you were to put 1 MW of
steam into one of those offices, in a radiator or as live steam for an
industrial application, you would cook the occupants. I mean that
literally; that section of the building would get hot enough to kill and
cook anyone inside.

This street view photo was taken in Feb. 2014.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Problems with 2012 Penon report

I don't think Penon's competency is an issue at all here.   Anyone can
measure 50x cop.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> I have been complaining that Penon seems incompetent. It is a little
> unfair for me to grouse without substantiating my complaints. Let me
> briefly describe why I am not impressed.
>
> The report is here:
>
> http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf
>
> As I wrote previously:
>
> "It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW."
>
> That's a BIG PROBLEM. Red flag! If I did a study and came up with an
> answer somewhere between 2.5 and 3.7 kW I would not publish it. That is an
> absurdly wide error margin. Narrowing it down in this case is easy. It is
> trivial. You calibrate. You step the cell through 8 or 10 steps at power
> levels ranging from 4 to 8 kW. That range covers the lowest to the highest
> power levels you think the cell is producing.
>
> I also said:
>
> "I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
> use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera."
>
> I just explained why calibrations are important. I do not see them in this
> report. A thermocouple to confirm the IR camera is essential.
>
> "I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
> am not impressed. . . ."
>
> When I saw that gigantic error margin I thought, "What the hell is going
> on? Why didn't he get a better answer than that?!?" Basically I tossed it
> aside after that.
>
> The method of using an IR camera is crude but it can be done reasonably
> well, with calibrations and a thermocouple and some other precautions. It
> is not a bad start. But I would follow up with flow calorimetry, probably
> air-flow rather than water.
>
> A person who screws up a test on this scale can probably screw up a
> megawatt test too. Measuring megawatts is harder than you might think. It
> is actually easier to measure, say, 100 W with confidence than it is to
> measure a megawatt.
>
>
> Jones Beene also got a bad impression from this report. Maybe he tell us
> his reasons.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Problems with 2012 Penon report

Many of the problems with this report were also made at Lugano. Some of
these problems were described here:

http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue118/analysis.html

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ClarkeTcommentont.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Agreed, a settlment seems likely.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Lennart Thornros  wrote:

> 89 million dollars is a lot of money.
> I think there will be a settlement within three months.
> I do not think we need to find out who is the bad boy.
> I think they all are in a league they have not played before.
> My reasoning for believing in a settlement is that they destroy the lead
> to the market if they drag this out.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Lennart Thornros  > wrote:
>
>> Jed,
>> I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
>> You said in black I think in red.
>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>> about them because:
>>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
>> use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.
>>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and
>> I are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
>> picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.
>>
>> I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
>> guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
>> right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might
>> see a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
>> couple of years but . . .
>>
>>  I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
>> can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???
>>
>> Best Regards ,
>> Lennart Thornros
>>
>>
>> lenn...@thornros.com
>> +1 916 436 1899
>>
>> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
>> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell > > wrote:
>>
>>> Lennart Thornros >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
 The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
 period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
 (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
 energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
 same period.

>>>
>>>
>>>
 It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
 the methods before you have any details.

>>>
>>> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
>>> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>>>
>>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>>> about them because:
>>>
>>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>>>
>>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>>>
>>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>>>
>>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>>>
>>> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
>>> published, so we will never know who is right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is
 one step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean
 and efficient energy source."

>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>>
>>> - Jed
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Jack Cole

Seems more likely this could be a preemptive strike by Rossi.  Maybe he
knew there would be a suit coming from IH and decided to strike first and
issue a press release.  Maybe they will also want their money back from the
flawed Lugano test.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 9:04 PM Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> 89 million dollars is a lot of money.
> I think there will be a settlement within three months.
> I do not think we need to find out who is the bad boy.
> I think they all are in a league they have not played before.
> My reasoning for believing in a settlement is that they destroy the lead
> to the market if they drag this out.
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Lennart Thornros 
> wrote:
>
>> Jed,
>> I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
>> You said in black I think in red.
>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>> about them because:
>>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
>> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
>> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
>> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>>
>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
>> use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.
>>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
>> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
>> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
>> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
>> difference.
>>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
>> are way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and
>> I are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
>> picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.
>>
>> I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
>> guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
>> right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might
>> see a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
>> couple of years but . . .
>>
>>  I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
>> can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???
>>
>> Best Regards ,
>> Lennart Thornros
>>
>>
>> lenn...@thornros.com
>> +1 916 436 1899
>>
>> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
>> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>>>
>>>
 The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
 period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
 (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
 energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
 same period.

>>>
>>>
>>>
 It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
 the methods before you have any details.

>>>
>>> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
>>> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>>>
>>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>>> about them because:
>>>
>>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>>>
>>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>>>
>>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>>>
>>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>>>
>>> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
>>> published, so we will never know who is right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is
 one step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean
 and efficient energy source."

>>>
>>> I doubt it.
>>>
>>> - Jed
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>

As it happens, I just posted a message describing some of the reasons I am
not impressed.

If you read the report, and you were impressed, I think you need to learn a
little more about calorimetry. It was as bad as the Lugano report. Some of
the same mistakes were in both.

> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
> difference.
>

A license and the proper procedures can be the difference between life and
death. The exams are NOT simple. I have seen them, and I am sure I would
fail them.

I have never worked with large industrial equipment. But I have been in
factories, and in ship engine rooms. I have talked to OSHA inspectors and
HVAC engineers. My late father was fireman first class in the engine room
of a steamship built around 1910, and he told me a lot about it. He did
that for 6 years until his arm was crushed in an accident. There are not
one, not two, but DOZENS of ways you can kill yourself, blow up the
building or sink the ship when you make a mistake with a boiler. Even
today, with all the automatic controls, it is still dangerous. And yes, you
can confuse 200 kW with 1 MW (or vice versa) by doing it wrong. That is why
boilers blow up. Look at Defkalion for an example of how badly you can make
a mistake doing industrial scale calorimetry.

> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
> are way out of line. IH does not know anything.
>

I have met with those people at conferences. I can judge their knowledge.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

"I think that Rossi feels that he has been deeply wronged in the past and
for some reason I.H. is/was trying to string him along on the payment of
the 89 million dollars owed him and he wasn't going to wait for any excuses
and filed as soon as he felt he might never see the money/profit he feels
he is due. He just wasn't going to be taken again. Obviously, just my own
take on what's going on.

Robert"

I suspect it's just ballsy fraud.  Rossi is probably just playing for a
settlement.  That's speculation of course, I have no inside knowledge.

So, who knows.   I think there is about a 5% chance it's real.

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

89 million dollars is a lot of money.
I think there will be a settlement within three months.
I do not think we need to find out who is the bad boy.
I think they all are in a league they have not played before.
My reasoning for believing in a settlement is that they destroy the lead to
the market if they drag this out.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros


lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)


On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Jed,
> I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
> You said in black I think in red.
> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
> them because:
>
> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
> have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
> read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
> good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.
>
> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
> use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.
>
> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry
> but license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I
> know there is probably some experience required but that can always be
> fixed - believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a
> difference.
>
> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you
> are way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and
> I are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
> picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.
>
> I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
> guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
> right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might
> see a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
> couple of years but . . .
>
>  I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
> can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>>>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
>>> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
>>> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
>>> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
>>> same period.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
>>> the methods before you have any details.
>>>
>>
>> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
>> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>>
>> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts
>> about them because:
>>
>> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>>
>> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>>
>> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>>
>> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
>> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>>
>> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
>> published, so we will never know who is right.
>>
>>
>>
>>> See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one
>>> step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and
>>> efficient energy source."
>>>
>>
>> I doubt it.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>

[Vo]:Problems with 2012 Penon report

I have been complaining that Penon seems incompetent. It is a little unfair
for me to grouse without substantiating my complaints. Let me briefly
describe why I am not impressed.

The report is here:

http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf

As I wrote previously:

"It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW."

That's a BIG PROBLEM. Red flag! If I did a study and came up with an answer
somewhere between 2.5 and 3.7 kW I would not publish it. That is an
absurdly wide error margin. Narrowing it down in this case is easy. It is
trivial. You calibrate. You step the cell through 8 or 10 steps at power
levels ranging from 4 to 8 kW. That range covers the lowest to the highest
power levels you think the cell is producing.

I also said:

"I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera."

I just explained why calibrations are important. I do not see them in this
report. A thermocouple to confirm the IR camera is essential.

"I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
am not impressed. . . ."

When I saw that gigantic error margin I thought, "What the hell is going
on? Why didn't he get a better answer than that?!?" Basically I tossed it
aside after that.

The method of using an IR camera is crude but it can be done reasonably
well, with calibrations and a thermocouple and some other precautions. It
is not a bad start. But I would follow up with flow calorimetry, probably
air-flow rather than water.

A person who screws up a test on this scale can probably screw up a
megawatt test too. Measuring megawatts is harder than you might think. It
is actually easier to measure, say, 100 W with confidence than it is to
measure a megawatt.


Jones Beene also got a bad impression from this report. Maybe he tell us
his reasons.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Jed,
I am amazed. You just say things. no support as far as I can see.
You said in black I think in red.
While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
them because:

1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry. I
have no clue about how well you know this guys qualifications except you
read a report you think was flawed. If the COP was 50, then I (and I am not
good at calorimetry) could give the answer that at least COP6 was reached.

2. Penon is not independent of Rossi. How do you know that? How could IH
use a guy they suspect is in Rossi's pocket. You underestimate the players.

3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement. Sorry but
license is just an issue of passing a simple exam and pay the fees. I know
there is probably some experience required but that can always be fixed -
believe me.BTW if he is licensed anywhere would that make a difference.

4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them. Now you are
way out of line. IH does not know anything. My guess is that Darden and I
are equal when it comes to calorimetry. Other people in IH are not in the
picture and then calorimetry is not the only way to get things secured.

I will have to wait to see the report. I agree you are way too early. My
guess is that it will never be published, so we will never know who is
right. I would have agreed with you a couple of days ago. Now we might see
a lawsuit and then this report will be fully disclosed. It will take a
couple of years but . . .

 I do not know if you doubt that we are approaching a new technology that
can have positive impact on many areas of life or ???

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:22 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>
>> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
>> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
>> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
>> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
>> same period.
>>
>
>
>
>> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
>> the methods before you have any details.
>>
>
> I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
> talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.
>
> While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
> them because:
>
> 1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.
>
> 2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>
> 3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.
>
> 4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
> calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.
>
> I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
> published, so we will never know who is right.
>
>
>
>> See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one
>> step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and
>> efficient energy source."
>>
>
> I doubt it.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint




I think that Rossi feels that he has been deeply 
wronged in the past and for some reason I.H. 
is/was trying to string him along on the payment 
of the 89 million dollars owed him and he wasn't 
going to wait for any excuses and filed as soon 
as he felt he might never see the money/profit he 
feels he is due. He just wasn't going to be taken 
again. Obviously, just my own take on what's going on.


Robert Dorr
WA7ZQR




At 06:27 PM 4/6/2016, you wrote:
On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
<blazespinna...@gmail.com> wrote:


I am actually hopeful. Â 50x is pretty 
high.Â  It was installed in a customer site. 
Â  That's some crazy attempt at fraud.



I have a bad feeling about the lawsuit.Â  It 
does not make me any more confident in Rossi's 
account.Â  But I agree that if there is fraud, 
Rossi is now shooting for the moon.


Eric

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> Obviously, this all gets down to the data, in the end. Are there 2000
>> hours of reliable data for power out vs. power in ? If so, then this will
>> probably never go to trial – the Court will appoint an expert and the
>> verdict will be directed based on his finding.
>
>
> Maybe an out-of-court settlement will be IH's way of disengaging from
> Rossi and cutting ties.
>
> Eric
>
>
> Yeah, it'll either be a drawn out case or a settlement.   Rossi was
charging a lot more than just non payment.  He's got all sorts of fraud
counts in there.

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

Well, I was coming from the strong expectation that the report wasn't going
to show anything at all.

Though - from the perspective of the damage this can do to LENR in
general ,yeah, this could be very bad.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Blaze Spinnaker  > wrote:
>
> I am actually hopeful.  50x is pretty high.  It was installed in a
>> customer site.   That's some crazy attempt at fraud.
>
>
> I have a bad feeling about the lawsuit.  It does not make me any more
> confident in Rossi's account.  But I agree that if there is fraud, Rossi is
> now shooting for the moon.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

Russ George  wrote:

> It’s ridiculous to suggest that the people who wrote that very clean and
> clear set of legal claims are fools, that they don’t know the ropes, and
> have not done their homework with the data with competent help.
>

Regarding the technical claims, they could well be wrong. Look at Defkalion.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GamberaleLfinaltechn.pdf

Lawyers cannot judge such things.

> The idea that some ‘license HVAC or otherwise’ is what defines the
> intellect to be able to process the simple energy data on the mega E-Cat is
> simply preposterous.
>

Not a bit. As I said, look at Defkalion. If you set up a boiler without
preventing backflow there is no telling what your instruments will show.
They can be wrong by any factor. That's the mistake made by Defkalion
(assuming it was a mistake). There are dozens of other ways to get it
wrong. That is why boilers sometimes explode and people are killed.

That is why HVAC engineers have to pass rigorous examinations, and they
have to follow carefully defined procedures. I have seen those examinations
and I am pretty sure that if I tried to operate a large boiler manually, or
if I tried to test one, I would blow myself up. There are a lot of ways to
get it wrong, just as there are on a small scale doing laboratory bench
calorimetry.

Penon and Rossi's previous attempts to do calorimetry were dreadful.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

Obviously, this all gets down to the data, in the end. Are there 2000 hours
> of reliable data for power out vs. power in ? If so, then this will
> probably never go to trial – the Court will appoint an expert and the
> verdict will be directed based on his finding.

Maybe an out-of-court settlement will be IH's way of disengaging from Rossi
and cutting ties.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

10) If there is solid data over thousands of hours which backs Rossi’s
and Penon’s claim and the COP is much less – say 1.5 then it will be
a tough call but Rossi could win.

I got the sense that 6x COP was required for the payout

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:02 PM, Blaze Spinnaker 
wrote:

I am actually hopeful.  50x is pretty high.  It was installed in a customer
> site.   That's some crazy attempt at fraud.


I have a bad feeling about the lawsuit.  It does not make me any more
confident in Rossi's account.  But I agree that if there is fraud, Rossi is
now shooting for the moon.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

From: Jed Rothwell 

http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Leonardosuit01-main.pdf


As a general rule in Lawsuits, when the answer to a particular complaint 
arrives, the reader will be shocked that the two parties are talking about the 
same set of facts. The next round of this tragi-comedy is partially predictable 
– since there is presently no valid scientific proof that Rossi has ever seen 
thermal gain from LENR. None, zero, nada. Plus, he is no stranger to the Legal 
system, and the attorneys of IH will want to have all of his sordid background 
introduced as evidence. 

One wonders if Rossi’s attorney is even aware of all of these details --- like 
the botched TEG research, Petrodragon, the convenient Lab fires, the criminal 
convictions? None of that may be relevant to this year-long test, agreed, but 
ALL of it could come out in court – to show a pattern of bad conduct over the 
years. 

Some further points to consider…

1)  Rossi has hired a reputable high powered-firm and he may not have told 
them much about his past, and they may not have suspected a pattern of bad 
conduct (which IH will allege). 
2)  There will be a proactive response from IH and it will likely be 
abundantly clear that they feel like Rossi has cheated and they may countersue 
for damages and to recover the past payment.
3)  There will probably be lack of real day-to-day data in the year long 
testing - which will shock any scientist. If Rossi has good data for gain, he 
will prevail. It is that simple and IH knows this. 
4)  If the “customer” is an invention, this will greatly compromise Rossi’s 
credibility.
5)  It is reasonable to expect that there will be allegations of faked 
data, if data exits at all. 
6)  Rossi will have a very difficult time finding an expert witness who is 
admissible as such, since few experts believe in LENR and all of them want to 
see real data.
7)  Penon is obviously no expert. His lack of qualifications and even legal 
status could become an issue. 
8)  There are certain rare situations when an attorney may withdraw from a 
case which include receiving false information from the client. For example, if 
the attorney has uncovered knowledge that the client is in the process of 
furthering criminal or fraudulent activity. That scenario cannot be ruled out 
here, even if rare.
9)  If there is real data of COP=50 for a significant period, then of 
course… the $100,000,000 is an absolute bargain ! and IH should have no trouble 
paying that, as the value of the invention would be much more. 
10) If there is solid data over thousands of hours which backs Rossi’s and 
Penon’s claim and the COP is much less – say 1.5 then it will be a tough call 
but Rossi could win.

Obviously, this all gets down to the data, in the end. Are there 2000 hours of 
reliable data for power out vs. power in ? If so, then this will probably never 
go to trial – the Court will appoint an expert and the verdict will be directed 
based on his finding. 

Only one thing is certain, the attorneys on both sides will have many billable 
hours at a rate that is shocking to experts in other fields.

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.
>

I'm curious how things got this far in the negotiation of the test between
Rossi and IH.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

Well one good thing is that this is moving into a formal intelligent arena 
where the postulations and pomposities of the peanut gallery will not be heard 
before the judge. Just real experts working with real data. It’s ridiculous to 
suggest that the people who wrote that very clean and clear set of legal claims 
are fools, that they don’t know the ropes, and have not done their homework 
with the data with competent help. The idea that some ‘license HVAC or 
otherwise’ is what defines the intellect to be able to process the simple 
energy data on the mega E-Cat is simply preposterous. In the court room the 
qualification of the ‘expert’ witnesses will be beyond reproach. The proof of 
the E-Cat data one way or the other is a days work for the court. It may take a 
week to beat the IP and license bits into what they really mean. All in all a 
trivial case to adjudicate.

 

I predict that as Rossi stays the course he will discover that IH will simply 
evaporate, unless they pay up and play nice. He is standing on firm very much 
higher ground and it will be trivial for him to carry on independently of IH 
which is likely what this action has already revealed he must do. I know from 
personal experience as an inventor with the VC world in such IP matters that it 
is a trying exercise to enforce agreements and my sympathy is with Rossi. I 
will help him however possible. His 350 day demo under the terms he performed 
it is an outstanding reference for both the man and his technology. 

 

This smacks of the typical VC vs inventor game where the VC’s are sure that the 
inventor is a schmuck at business… clearly Rossi is no such business schmuck, 
his history should clearly prove that. No one seems to like the idea of a guy 
like Rossi who can effectively wear both inventor and businessman hats well. 

 

The commentary about raising the questions about Rossi’s character are a 
perfect example of Troll behavior… read this fine piece on Trolls and check the 
mirror  
http://sciencecommunicationmedia.com/constructively-dealing-with-trolls-in-science-communication/

 

 

 

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 5:57 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

 

Russ George  > wrote:

 

That is a very straight legal case Rossi reveals that points to the failure of 
IH to honor its contract. Rossi is clearly going to win this unless IH pays up 
the $89 million.

 

Only if: 1. Rossi has not misrepresented the contracts; and 2. Penon's report 
has merit. I know nothing about 1. Regarding 2, I have not seen the report, but 
I have doubts about Penon's abilities. Rossi's previous tests, including the 1 
MW test in Italy, were terrible. Very sloppy. Full of holes that could easily 
have been fixed. So I do not trust his technical judgement.

 

As I said here before, if you are a licensed HVAC engineer and you do things by 
the book, you will get the right answer. But Penon is not licensed and he seems 
incompetent. Rossi is clearly incompetent, in ways that I and many others such 
as the people from NASA pointed out. Unless and until we see this report we 
cannot judge, but I would not rule out a mistake or even fraud.

 

It is impossible to judge the technical merits of this argument without a 
careful examination of the Penon report. You might need to see more data than 
that.

 

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

More here:

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

anyways, let's wait for the rebuttal.

there are a lot missing exhibits in the filing, like the ERV report,
Darden's agreement to commence the test, etc.

Maybe the ERV report will 'leak out' and experts will be able to poke holes
for Darden.

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

Here are some more court papers:

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

I am actually hopeful.  50x is pretty high.  It was installed in a customer
site.   That's some crazy attempt at fraud.

Maybe 71 is stated wrong, and it only surged to 50x.But if not, 50x
over the lifetime.. that's impressive an Rossi should get his due.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Russ George  > wrote:
>
> That is a very straight legal case Rossi reveals that points to the
>> failure of IH to honor its contract. Rossi is clearly going to win this
>> unless IH pays up the $89 million.
>>
>
> Only if: 1. Rossi has not misrepresented the contracts; and 2. Penon's
> report has merit. I know nothing about 1. Regarding 2, I have not seen the
> report, but I have doubts about Penon's abilities. Rossi's previous tests,
> including the 1 MW test in Italy, were terrible. Very sloppy. Full of holes
> that could easily have been fixed. So I do not trust his technical
> judgement.
>
> As I said here before, if you are a licensed HVAC engineer and you do
> things by the book, you will get the right answer. But Penon is not
> licensed and he seems incompetent. Rossi is clearly incompetent, in ways
> that I and many others such as the people from NASA pointed out. Unless and
> until we see this report we cannot judge, but I would not rule out a
> mistake or even fraud.
>
> It is impossible to judge the technical merits of this argument without a
> careful examination of the Penon report. You might need to see more data
> than that.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

Russ George  wrote:

That is a very straight legal case Rossi reveals that points to the failure
> of IH to honor its contract. Rossi is clearly going to win this unless IH
> pays up the $89 million.
>

Only if: 1. Rossi has not misrepresented the contracts; and 2. Penon's
report has merit. I know nothing about 1. Regarding 2, I have not seen the
report, but I have doubts about Penon's abilities. Rossi's previous tests,
including the 1 MW test in Italy, were terrible. Very sloppy. Full of holes
that could easily have been fixed. So I do not trust his technical
judgement.

As I said here before, if you are a licensed HVAC engineer and you do
things by the book, you will get the right answer. But Penon is not
licensed and he seems incompetent. Rossi is clearly incompetent, in ways
that I and many others such as the people from NASA pointed out. Unless and
until we see this report we cannot judge, but I would not rule out a
mistake or even fraud.

It is impossible to judge the technical merits of this argument without a
careful examination of the Penon report. You might need to see more data
than that.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

lol.

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016, Russ George  wrote:

> That is a very straight legal case Rossi reveals that points to the
> failure of IH to honor its contract. Rossi is clearly going to win this
> unless IH pays up the $89 million. Rossi is in the catbird seat as he is
> being seen to enforce his IP and license agreements which is a vital task
> under IP law. The courts usually take a very simple view of such matters if
> the payments are not made and infringements are shown then Rossi gets ALL
> his IP back and IH loses any licenses.
>
>
>
> Since Rossi has now proven his tech works and IH has proven that big money
> will invest, aka Woodward funds, Rossi will find it simple to raise similar
> sums. Good for him he has played very cool and straight with IH and it
> seems clear IH has not done the same. We shall have to see what the courts
> say but in the meantime Rossi owns it all and can move ahead. Worst case
> scenario for Rossi is IH pays up to retain the license.
>
>
>
> Given the obvious leaks that have been out prior to this document saying
> Rossi and IH were having difficulties someone on the inside has been
> playing a dark game against Rossi by feeding the trolls.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com
> ]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 5:11 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> 
> *Subject:* [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint
>
>
>
> See:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Leonardosuit01-main.pdf
>

[Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

Something bizarre is going on here.  He's claming 50x COP in line
71.  That's pretty hard to mistake.

RE: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

That is a very straight legal case Rossi reveals that points to the failure of 
IH to honor its contract. Rossi is clearly going to win this unless IH pays up 
the $89 million. Rossi is in the catbird seat as he is being seen to enforce 
his IP and license agreements which is a vital task under IP law. The courts 
usually take a very simple view of such matters if the payments are not made 
and infringements are shown then Rossi gets ALL his IP back and IH loses any 
licenses. 

 

Since Rossi has now proven his tech works and IH has proven that big money will 
invest, aka Woodward funds, Rossi will find it simple to raise similar sums. 
Good for him he has played very cool and straight with IH and it seems clear IH 
has not done the same. We shall have to see what the courts say but in the 
meantime Rossi owns it all and can move ahead. Worst case scenario for Rossi is 
IH pays up to retain the license. 

 

Given the obvious leaks that have been out prior to this document saying Rossi 
and IH were having difficulties someone on the inside has been playing a dark 
game against Rossi by feeding the trolls. 

 

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 5:11 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

 

See:

 

http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Leonardosuit01-main.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
> same period.
>

> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
> the methods before you have any details.
>

I have not disqualified these measurements. I have not seen them. I was
talking about Penon's previous report. It was lousy.

While I have not disqualified these measurements, I have some doubts about
them because:

1. Based on his previous work, Penon is not qualified to do calorimetry.

2. Penon is not independent of Rossi.

3. He is not licensed in Florida to do this kind of measurement.

4. I. H. said they disagree with the result. They know more about
calorimetry than Penon does, so I am inclined to believe them.

I will have to wait to see the report. My guess is that it will never be
published, so we will never know who is right.

> See the positive and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one
> step closer to the realization of a commercially available new, clean and
> efficient energy source."
>

I doubt it.

- Jed

[Vo]:Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

See:

http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Leonardosuit01-main.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.




In the court filing it says that the average COP was in excess of 50 
and sometimes in excess of 60. All I can say is WOW! I hope it holds 
true. A lot of grist for the mill.


Robert Dorr
WA7ZQR



At 04:55 PM 4/6/2016, you wrote:
I have a feeling that Mr. Fulvio Fabiani has contributed to the 
development of the E-Cat in a big way and now that he is an IH 
employee, his status as a E-Cat developer gives IH a reason to claim 
a part of Rossi's IP. Rossi has always said that his team is a major 
part of E-Cat development. Maybe, that team, the members of the team 
and the company that these people work for should get a part of that IP.


Rossi has often said that he couldn't have done it without his team 
(he may regret saying such things) then they may rightly be co-inventors.

[Vo]:Too much coincidence regarding the cats

2016-04-06 Thread Daniel Rocha

Yesterday, the final report regarding the hyperion was released by krivit,
today, Rossi sues IH. This looks like the chapter of a scripted  show that
ended Yesterday and a New oné hás begun. Tô sum This up: both IH seem tô bê
fake oponents. I hope Rossi is not making up most of stuff, andar does not
have anything worth.

-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Axil Axil

I have a feeling that Mr. Fulvio Fabiani has contributed to the development
of the E-Cat in a big way and now that he is an IH employee, his status as
a E-Cat developer gives IH a reason to claim a part of Rossi's IP. Rossi
has always said that his team is a major part of E-Cat development. Maybe,
that team, the members of the team and the company that these people work
for should get a part of that IP.

Rossi has often said that he couldn't have done it without his team (he may
regret saying such things) then they may rightly be co-inventors.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> She was the first OS I fell in love with.
>
> And I've ordered two copies of the robot:
>
>
> http://www.wired.com/2016/04/the-scarlett-johansson-bot-signals-some-icky-things-about-our-future/
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Russ George  wrote:
>
>> Well dang it you might be right, Scarlett is already a geek fav!
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
>> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified -
>> Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George 
>> wrote:
>>
>> One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world
>> changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only
>> thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron
>> in a major role in the movie.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While
>> Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of
>> "The Devil's Advocate".
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

She was the first OS I fell in love with.

And I've ordered two copies of the robot:

http://www.wired.com/2016/04/the-scarlett-johansson-bot-signals-some-icky-things-about-our-future/

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> Well dang it you might be right, Scarlett is already a geek fav!
>
>
>
> *From:* Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified -
> Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George  wrote:
>
> One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world
> changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only
> thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron
> in a major role in the movie.
>
>
>
> Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While
> Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of
> "The Devil's Advocate".
>

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Here’s my blog post on the Rossi Press release…. Easy to share. Join in and 
help cold fusion fuse… 
http://atom-ecology.russgeorge.net/2016/04/06/rossi-e-cat-press-release/

From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George  > wrote:

One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world 
changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only 
thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron in 
a major role in the movie.

Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While 
Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of "The 
Devil's Advocate".

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Well dang it you might be right, Scarlett is already a geek fav!

From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George  > wrote:

One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world 
changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only 
thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron in 
a major role in the movie.

Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While 
Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of "The 
Devil's Advocate".

[Vo]:May You Live in Interesting Times

Elon Musk has $10,000,000,000 in pre-orders for the Model III ( completing
the subtle models *S III X*, rotate the lines = SEX).

We are anticipating the legal battle of cold fusion, almost 3 decades in
the making.

NASA has committed to an independent test of the massless propulsion system.

Politics in the US have achieved a new level of insanity.

All we need are aliens to land on the White House lawn.

Re: [Vo]:Open Letter from Brian Ahern

Here's something I found interesting in the lawsuit. During the test, IH 
had hired two people to monitor the test, and they were kept well 
informed of its progress. I wonder if they signed the document, as well?


"67.
During the Guaranteed Performance Test period, IH and/or IPH engaged and 
paid
two of their representatives, Mr. Barry West and Mr. Fulvio Fabiani, to 
monitor, maintain, take

part in, and report on the operation of the E-Cat Unit being tested.
68.
Throughout the Guaranteed Performance testing period, the results of the 
test,
including measurements and operational status, were routinely reported 
to DARDEN, VAUGHN,

IH and IPH by ROSSI, the ERV and IH/IPH's agents Mr. Fabiani and Mr. V/est."

Craig

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world
> changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only
> thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron
> in a major role in the movie.
>

Sorry, Russ, but my preference is Scarlett Johansson from "Lucy". While
Charlize was fantastic in "Monster" she was wimpy in the legal battle of
"The Devil's Advocate".

Re: [Vo]:Open Letter from Brian Ahern


And the winner is Jone Beene!!

"I have recently re-read the Pinon report, which is an absolute mockery 
of the scientific system, and if Pinon turns out to be the ERV, then we 
are in the early stages of a gigantic lawsuit. "


Craig

On 03/31/2016 08:54 PM, Jones Beene wrote:


I have recently re-read the Pinon report, which is an absolute mockery 
of the scientific system, and if Pinon turns out to be the ERV, then 
we are in the early stages of a gigantic lawsuit.

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

One could not dream up a better dramatic scenario than to have this world 
changing cold fusion revolution be tangled in a wild legal battle… the only 
thing missing are the nearly naked beauty queens! I can see Charlize Theron in 
a major role in the movie.

From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 3:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

I hope Rossi has a good case.  We southerner's tend to be vindictive. 

>From AR's lawyer's webpage:'

"Our philosophy is to personally serve our clients and beat their expectations, 
at the lowest possible cost."

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

I hope Rossi has a good case.  We southerner's tend to be vindictive.

>From AR's lawyer's webpage:'

"Our philosophy is to personally serve our clients and beat their
expectations, at the lowest possible cost."

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Patrick Ellul

That filing is a whole novel.
"By all accounts, the amount of energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during
the Guaranteed Performance Test was substantially greater than fifty (50)
times the amount of energy consumed by the E-Cat Unit during the same
period."

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:35 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Was the payment due to Rossi based on the COP and was the COP so large
> that this resultant huge payment could not be covered by IH?
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> This info came from someone who is trying to get permission to post it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree it is distasteful. You don’t have to go to NC State to realize
>> that when you lie down with dogs, you will likely get fleas…
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jed Rothwell
>>
>> There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the
>> test was shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and
>> having it in litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure.
>> As Brian Ahern predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or
>> if there was one, it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom
>> large, when it gets down to basic honesty.
>>
>>
>>
>> You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid
>> to see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything
>> about court cases or legal documents of this nature.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>>
>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Axil Axil

Was the payment due to Rossi based on the COP and was the COP so large that
this resultant huge payment could not be covered by IH?

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> This info came from someone who is trying to get permission to post it.
>
>
>
> I agree it is distasteful. You don’t have to go to NC State to realize
> that when you lie down with dogs, you will likely get fleas…
>
>
>
> *From:* Jed Rothwell
>
> There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test
> was shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it
> in litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian
> Ahern predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there
> was one, it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large,
> when it gets down to basic honesty.
>
>
>
> You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid
> to see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything
> about court cases or legal documents of this nature.)
>
>
>
> Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.
>
>
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

This info came from someone who is trying to get permission to post it.

 

I agree it is distasteful. You don’t have to go to NC State to realize that 
when you lie down with dogs, you will likely get fleas… 

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test was 
shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it in 
litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian Ahern 
predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there was one, 
it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large, when it gets 
down to basic honesty.

 

You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid to 
see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything about 
court cases or legal documents of this nature.)

 

Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.

 

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Patrick Ellul

Frank has posted one of the documents here:
http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/04/06/complaint-of-andrea-rossi-and-leonardo-corp-court-document-cop-substantially-greater-than-fifty-50-during-test/

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:20 AM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

> Jed,
> The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
>  According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
> period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
> (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
> energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
> same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers
> the results of the third party test to be "an overwhelming success" and
> that
> It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and
> the methods before you have any details.
> Just let things play out. It has been in pipeline for over 25 years, there
> is result from serious tests that confirm that it is possible. I agree
> there are several steps to go: engineering, theory etc.. See the positive
> and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one step closer to the
> realization of a commercially available new, clean and efficient energy
> source."
>
>
> Best Regards ,
> Lennart Thornros
>
>
> lenn...@thornros.com
> +1 916 436 1899
>
> Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
> enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>>
>> I disagree Jed.
>>> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is
>>> 6.
>>>
>>
>> You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
>> It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.
>>
>> I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
>> use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.
>>
>> I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
>> am not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1
>> MW reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.
>>
>>
>>
>>> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you
>>> can judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new
>>> obstacles.
>>>
>>
>> If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
>> information. I am not sure what you refer to.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Jed,
The info about COP I took from Rossi's pressrelease:
 According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day test
period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of six
(6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the
results of the third party test to be "an overwhelming success" and that
It is just mind boggling to me that you disqualify the measurements and the
methods before you have any details.
Just let things play out. It has been in pipeline for over 25 years, there
is result from serious tests that confirm that it is possible. I agree
there are several steps to go: engineering, theory etc.. See the positive
and I think Rossi is correct saying; "the world is one step closer to the
realization of a commercially available new, clean and efficient energy
source."

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
> I disagree Jed.
>> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
>>
>
> You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
> It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.
>
> I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
> use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.
>
> I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
> am not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1
> MW reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
>> judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
>>
>
> If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
> information. I am not sure what you refer to.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

2016-04-06 Thread Patrick Ellul

Here is the link to the papers:
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
> I disagree Jed.
>> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
>>
>
> You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
> It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.
>
> I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
> use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.
>
> I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I
> am not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1
> MW reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.
>
>
>
>> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
>> judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
>>
>
> If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
> information. I am not sure what you refer to.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>


-- 
Patrick

www.tRacePerfect.com
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect!
The quickest puzzle ever!

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

I disagree Jed.
> I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
>

You mean in the 2012 Penon report. Right? Where does it say the COP is 6?
It says output was 2.5 ~ 3.7 kW, and input was 3.6 kW.

I do not think much of the methodology. I recommend calibrations and the
use of thermocouple to augment the IR camera.

I admit I have not looked as closely as I did to the Levi reports, but I am
not impressed. I have no idea how Penon measured the output from the 1 MW
reactor, but he does not seem good at calorimetry.

> The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
> judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
>

If you are talking about the 2012 report we have had plenty of time and
information. I am not sure what you refer to.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Jones Beene  wrote:

There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test
> was shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it
> in litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian
> Ahern predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there
> was one, it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large,
> when it gets down to basic honesty.
>

You must be reading the documents to know these details. I guess you paid
to see them. Can you upload them? Is that legal? (I do not know anything
about court cases or legal documents of this nature.)

Part of me does not even want to know the gory details.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

I disagree Jed.
I think you have received a message as good as you could expect. COP is 6.
The quality of the person doing the report and his qualifications you can
judge when you have all information. Way too early to put up new obstacles.
Yes, it is a pity that obviously IH and Rossi have different opinion about
hoe to go on. It is not unusual for partnership to face problems - the
opposite is unusual.

I think - without being able to examine the scientific strengths of the
discussions here at  Vortex - that there is a rather good theory being
formed. Many details but I can hear that there is some kind of joint
'noise' in comparison to previous. Than we have Rossi's report about COP is
six. This is a fall forward.

I am sure money will be poured into research and result will follow.
Rossi's X-cat will be talked about in Stockholm in June.

I understand that if you believed it should come out clear theories and
firm plans for automated assembly plants then it is disappointing. Really
it is very good news (except for Rossi and IH, having to sort things out in
court.

Best Regards ,
Lennart Thornros

lenn...@thornros.com
+1 916 436 1899

Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and
enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM)

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I
> would appreciate it.
>
> This press release confirms that "the independent third party validation
> test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear
> Engineering." As I wrote here previously, this is like having an HVAC
> engineer look for radioactivity from a nuclear reactor.
>
> Jones Beene has a low opinion of Dr. Penon, which I suppose is based on
> this:
>
> http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf
>
> I agree this is nothing to write home about.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Russ George  wrote:

Anyone other than me seeing a DDOS attack on their cold fusion blog just
> now!
>

Whose blog? Rossi's, or lenr-forum.com? The latter is fine.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

The drama is intense…

The important thing is that this is not a knee-jerk reaction from Rossi.

>From the looks of things and based on the number of filings and so on – the 
>Silver Law group has put a month or so of work into this already … Let’s see, 
>200 hours at $750/hr already and the clock is ticking…

There is mention of a large payment which would have been due, if the test was 
shown to be successful. This could take years to resolve and having it in 
litigation let’s Rossi off the hook for a public disclosure. As Brian Ahern 
predicted, it seems that there never is/was a “customer”… or if there was one, 
it has not yet been revealed… but that detail could loom large, when it gets 
down to basic honesty.

This is horrible news for the field of LENR, but not unexpected.

From: Jed Rothwell 

Ah. You have to pay for it. Even though this is a .gov site.

Thanks, anyway.

Jones Beene  wrote:

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Anyone other than me seeing a DDOS attack on their cold fusion blog just now!

From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 2:28 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues 
Industrial Heat, LLC.

Ah. You have to pay for it. Even though this is a .gov site.

Thanks, anyway.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Jones Beene  > wrote:

From: Jed Rothwell 

If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov  , Case No. 
16-CV-21199-JLK, I would appreciate it.

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

Ah. You have to pay for it. Even though this is a .gov site.

Thanks, anyway.

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jed Rothwell
>
>
>
> If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I
> would appreciate it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

 

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I would 
appreciate it.

 

 

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

Re: [Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

If someone can give us a link to pacer.gov, Case No. 16-CV-21199-JLK, I
would appreciate it.

This press release confirms that "the independent third party validation
test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear
Engineering." As I wrote here previously, this is like having an HVAC
engineer look for radioactivity from a nuclear reactor.

Jones Beene has a low opinion of Dr. Penon, which I suppose is based on
this:

http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf

I agree this is nothing to write home about.

- Jed

[Vo]:Press Release - Cold Fusion (LENR) Verified - Inventor Sues Industrial Heat, LLC.

See:

https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/2970-Press-Release-Cold-Fusion-LENR-Verified-Inventor-Sues-Industrial-Heat-LLC/

Here is the entire press release:

Leonardo Corporation announced today that on March 29, 2016, Leonardo
Corporation received independent third party validation of the
overwhelmingly positive results of a nearly yearlong test of Leonardo's 1MW
Energy Catalyzer ("E-Cat"). According to the inventor, Andrea Rossi, the
E-Cat generates a low energy nuclear reaction ("LENR") which produces
excess heat energy at a cost substantially below more traditional energy
sources. According to the independent third party report, over the 352 day
test period, the E-Cat consistently generated energy at a rate in excess of
six (6) times the amount of energy consumed by the plant, often generating
energy exceeding fifty (50) times the amount of energy consumed during the
same period. According to Andrea Rossi, Leonardo Corporation considers the
results of the third party test to be "an overwhelming success" and that
"the world is one step closer to the realization of a commercially
available new, clean and efficient energy source."

The independent third party validation test was performed by Dr. Ing. Fabio
Penon, a Ph.D. in Nuclear Engineering, at the behest of Leonardo
Corporation and one of its licensees, Industrial Heat, LLC. as both desired
independent third party verification of the sustainability of the energy
production of the E-Cat over a prolonged period. "The results of Dr.
Penon's test was consistent with the measurements taken by the
representatives of Leonardo Corporation and Industrial Heat respectively
during the course of the test" said inventor Andrea Rossi.

"Leonardo Corporation is working diligently with its licensees, corporate
partners and material suppliers to implement a production and distribution
plan consistent with the expected demand for the E-Cat units when they are
made commercially available" stated Rossi.

Notwithstanding, Licensee Industrial Heat continued involvement in the
development and manufacturing of the E-Cat is uncertain at this time. As
stated in a lawsuit filed by The Silver Law Group, P.A. on behalf of
Leonardo Corporation on April 5, 2016, Leonardo Corporation believes
thatIndustrial Heat breached the terms of its license agreement and
misappropriated Leonardo Corporation's intellectual property relating to
the E-Cat. Additional information is available regarding the E-Cat
atwww.ecat.com. The lawsuit can be viewed at pacer.gov, Case No.
16-CV-21199-JLK, U.S. District Court, Southern District ofFlorida. Leonardo
Corporation does not anticipate that there will be any delay in the
commercial release of the E-Cat technology as a result of the lawsuit.

[Vo]:Rooftop solar PV could produce 40% of U.S. electricity

See:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/ugc/blogs/2016/04/rooftop_solar_could.html

This is a much higher estimate than previous studies came up with. I think
this is because PV cells are more efficient and cheaper than they used to
be, so it is more practical to use them more extensively.

I believe 40% would be enough to retire all coal-fired generators and many
natural gas generators.

"Distributed" (rooftop) PV is difficult to account for. It produced ~0.3%
of U.S. electricity at last year's peak (August 2015: 1,260 thousand
megawatt hours out of 401,535 thousand megawatt hours):

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/0?agg=2,0,1=vtvv=g=g=ELEC.GEN.SUN-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.DPV-US-99.M=ELEC.GEN.ALL-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.COW-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NG-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.NUC-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.HYC-US-99.M~ELEC.GEN.WND-US-99.M=ELEC.GEN.ALL-US-99.M=M=201212=201601=0=linechart=pin=s==0=0

Utility scale solar produced 2,834 thousand megawatt hours (0.7%).

It seems reasonable to project that rooftop PV it could increase by a
factor of 130, up to 40% of total generation. You do not see many PV roof
installations in the U.S.

See also:

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=25512

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/supplement/renewable/?src=home-b1

- Jed

[Vo]:(UN) EXPECTED DEVELOPMENT

2016-04-06 Thread Peter Gluck

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/04/kind-of-bomb-explosion.html


Peter
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

[Vo]:LENR problem solving to be extended and accelerated!

2016-04-06 Thread Peter Gluck

The most visible virtue of this issue is shortness, but I fear hope that
the day is not over for LENR info and news.

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/04/apr-6-2016-lenr-era-of-extended-and.html

Peter

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]: Lets work out some useful definitions

From: Bob Higgins 

*   It sounds like my understanding of IRH is wrong and I need to find the 
source of the description. 
My understanding is based on two papers that need to be read together as each 
has part of the picture. Both seem incomplete to me. The main one is Lawandy, 
which describes like-charge attraction as having Cooper pairing with larger 
accumulations as also paired - thus we are always dealing with bosons. A 
dielectric is required. Deuterium is favored over H, but both are technically 
bosonic - being paired.
www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LawandyNMinteractio.pdf
The other paper is 
www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MileyGHclusterswi.pdf 

 
However, as mentioned, Holmlid has backed away from this terminology in part, 
and does not use the “inverted” term any more. Big mistake, IMO. This is NOT 
Rydberg matter by definition, and as Miley says, this is an inverted state, 
which has different features where the negative charge in entrained in the 
support and not some kind of vague halo.
In short, like Plato’s cave, everyone sees what they want to see and we have a 
semantics problem which is deeply rooted. The import factors are charge 
separation, cluster density and a condensate at elevated temperatures. But both 
views favor deuterons - since it is classic consdensate phenomenon and AFAIK 
the best results are with deuterium. 
Quote: “Known from space chemistry: New catalytic generation of deuterium 
clusters in surface defects of iron oxide. Emission of clusters and laser 
irradiation confirms binding energy of 620 eV and distance between deuterons of 
d= 2.3 pm… They are saying this is a known phenomenon at low temperature, which 
adds some credibility, but it does not fit the strict definition of RM, so why 
not call it IRH? 
BTW, the binding energy alone is huge – and sufficient to prove that all of the 
excess energy ever seen in LENR can be non-nuclear, so long as achieving the 
IRH state requires less energy… which begs the question of the ultimate source 
of gain, if it is non-nuclear.

Re: [Vo]: Lets work out some useful definitions

2016-04-06 Thread Axil Axil

A recent experimental result shows how hydrides become superconductive
under pressure.

http://phys.org/news/2016-03-quantum-effects-world-smelliest-superconductor.html

The KEY: the hydrogen bonds become symmetric. All matter will become
metallic under enough pressure. This special type of hydrogen bonding is
the key to metalized hydrogen.

This room temperature superconductivity is what produces LENR effects in
metalized hydrogen.

Lithium Aluminum Hydride becomes metalized at the lowest pressure of all
hydrides because it is a ternary hydride: 42 GPa.

Other hydrides can be found the become metalized at even lower pressures if
the aluminum atom is replaced with a heaver atom.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/om020335k



On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> It strikes me that as we are using some of the acronyms we are losing
> sight of their properties.
>
> Holmlid describes his Ultra-Dense Hydrogen (UDH), and Ultra-Dense
> Deuterium (UDD) as forming from Rydberg Matter (RM).  Rydberg Matter (RM)
> is a cluster of atoms in the Rydberg state.  So, lets start with a
> description of Rydberg state (please help me to get these correct):
>
> *Rydberg state:*  As an atom becomes increasingly excited, the electron
> orbitals change to larger orbitals (let's stick with hydrogen for the
> moment).  As the atom absorbs more and more energy, the orbital diameter
> generally increases.  At some excitation, just before ionization of the
> atom, the orbitals are huge and largely flattened into a disk.  The Rydberg
> states is a very excited, HIGH ENERGY STATE of the atom with a large
> diameter flattened disk-like orbital.  Then energy is just below the energy
> for ionization of the atom.  Because of the huge electron orbital radius,
> the Rydberg atom has a huge magnetic moment.
>
> *Rydberg Matter:*  RM could be variously described as a molecular form of
> atoms each in a Rydberg state, or a cluster or condensed matter in Rydberg
> state.  Rydberg clusters/molecules are huge because, the orbitals of the
> individual atoms, each of which is in a Rydberg state, is huge.  Rydberg
> matter hydrogen forms with large numbers of Rydberg state hydrogen (or
> deuterium) atoms into a large flat hexagonal cluster.  The cluster can be
> fairly stable; lasting for long periods of time if not disturbed (like in
> space).  The RM cluster is strongly affected by electric and magnetic
> field.  Note that the total energy in a RM cluster is VERY HIGH because
> each of the atoms is in a high energy Rydberg state.  The existence of
> Rydberg Matter is well documented with many experiments.
>
> *UDH or UDD:*  Ultra-Dense Hydrogen or Ultra-Dense Deuterium is a
> controversially described and poorly understood form of matter.  Its
> existence is purely speculative/hypothetical - based on measurements made
> of particle energies leaving Holmlid's experiments.  Holmlid believes his
> evidence suggests the spontaneous formation of UDH and UDD from RM.
> Spontaneous transformations normally occur from a higher energy state to a
> lower energy state, so the UDH/UDD would likely be lower energy than the
> RM.  Transition from the high energy RM state to the UDH/UDD state should
> then be accompanied by the emission of energy in some form.  Winterberg
> proposes a theory that stacks of the flat RM can form into super-dense
> states inside of an Fe2O3 catalyst pore, and subsequently "switch" to a UDD
> form.  According to Winterberg, UDH cannot form.  In Winterberg's theory,
> the "switch" seems to be presented as a swap between two nearly identical
> energy states, not requiring energy emission/absorbtion.  If that is the
> case, then the UDD state would be a HIGH energy state of deuterium.  There
> is very little evidence supporting the existence or nature of UDH or UDD.
>
> *Inverted Rydberg Hydrogen:*  IRH is a coined term to describe an atom
> that has lost energy and entered a state BELOW the ground level.  It is
> equivalent to the *Hydrino* of Mills, and to some of the Deep Dirac
> Levels (DDL) described by Maly & Va'vra, Naudts (sort of), Meulenberg, and
> Paillet.  IRH is a LOW energy form of a hydrogen atom, because its energy
> is below the ground level.
>
> *Deep Dirac Level (DDL):*  DDL comprises a set of states BELOW the ground
> level of the atom.  Existence of these sub-ground level states was first
> predicted using the relativistic form of the Schrodinger equation, the
> Klein-Gordon equation, by Naudts.  Naudts showed that the K-G equation had
> a solution at a very deep level that was about 500 keV below the ground
> level for hydrogen.  Note, the Schrodinger equation is only an
> approximation - it accounts for spin, but not special relativistic
> effects.  The Klein-Gordon equation includes the effects of special
> relativity, but not spin.  Dirac derived a beautiful general equation that
> included both spin and special relativity.  Solutions to the Dirac equation
>

Re: [Vo]: Lets work out some useful definitions

2016-04-06 Thread Bob Higgins

Jones,

It sounds like my understanding of IRH is wrong and I need to find the
source of the description.  Can you point to a particular paper, where IRH
is described?  Perhaps by Lawandy or Miley?  From what you described, it
doesn't sound like IRH is a plausible state of condensed matter.

In the case of Mills' hydrino or the DDL states described by Maly, et al;
ALL of the states below ground level are lower energy than the ground
state.  The deepest, relativistic orbital described by Naudts with the K-G
equation, and Maly, et al with the Dirac solutions is the coldest, lowest
energy of them all - it is 500-509 keV BELOW the ground state; decidedly
low total (Hamiltonian) energy.  Perhaps you are intuitively sensing
volumetric energy density, which is not what nature necessarily minimizes.

Hydrino states, as described by Mills, and DDL states as described by
Meulenberg, cannot be entered or transited by emission/absorption of a
photon.  Your mention of EUV photons suggests photon emission, but those
photons came from the catalyst that absorbed the energy from the hydrino by
evanescent means; the catalyst, in so doing, becoming excited, and then
relaxing by emission of the EUV photon.  The requirement for non-photonic
transition between the DDL states (due to insufficient angular momentum to
create a photon)  is what keeps them nearly invisible to detection.

I don't think Holmlid or Winterberg have a plausible understanding of the
results of their experiments.  They have a hypothesis, but I don't think it
will stand up to continued experiment.  Winterberg does not believe that
UDH is possible, only UDD; but Holmlid obviously believes UDH is possible.

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> Bob
>
> The problem breaks down to identifying when the electron becomes
> essentially dissociated from the proton. IRH is not really an atom that
> has lost energy and entered a state below the ground state, since that
> level assumes the electron is still attached as an orbital.
>
> My take on the semantics is that IRH is the state described by Lawandy
> where the “support” holds the disconnected electron(s), which attracts
> the proton(s) electrostatically, so that many protons can accumulate in a 2D
> area which is less total area than a single orbital would occupy but is
> far less dense than Holmlid imagines.
>
> IRH is not an atom in this view nor is it the equivalent to the Hydrino
> of Mills or Deep Dirac Levels (DDL) described by Maly & Va'vra, Naudts
> Meulenberg, etc. Those are atoms. The shrinking hydrino is a low energy
> and denser form of a hydrogen atom, because energy is depleted below the
> ground level as EUV photons are emitted, but the electron still orbits
> attached.
>
> The irony and the problem is that at the deepest level the electron must
> become relativistic or very close, which is decidedly not lower energy. Some
> theorists even call it by another acronym (like we really need another
> one) which is the relativistic Schrodinger electron deep level (EDL). This
> may make it less likely to be real, in contrast to IRH but both could be
> happening in various circumstances.
>
> I am told by experts that Lawandy’s paper is stronger than Maly etc, but
> that is over my pay grade. Holmlid was co-author with Miley on IRH, but
> dropped the designation in favor of RM. I do not know precisely why he
> did this, or if Miley stuck with Lawandy or not. My opinion is that
> Holmlid should have stuck with IRH - and that UDH is the same as IRH … and
> possibly that DDL is a non-physical invention … since the shrinking
> hydrino cannot suddenly change from a low to a high energy state
> spontaneously, without violating CoE… unless as Fran Roarty believes, it
> becomes pumped to that state in a Casimir cavity.
>
>

RE: [Vo]:UDH, UDD, degenerate matter and white dwarf stars

From: Stephen Cooke 

 

Ø 

Ø  If UDD and UDH is actually equivalent to electron degenerate matter it
might be similar to the materials proposed to form white dwarf stars

 

This is an interesting (dare I say: Sirius) observation, since it could
explain why Holmlid sees mostly muons instead of nuclear fusion. About 10
years ago, Horace Heffner posted a number of articles on deflation fusion,
which is now looking like a prescient first step in the right direction, but
it didnt go far enough in the right direction  as he was looking for
actual fusion instead of the kind of quark soup full degeneracy that Holmlid
describes, following a laser pulse. 

 

A short laser pulse can equate to a gigantic electric field approaching a
petawatt. Ironically, it appears from Holmlids work in the context of the
constant disappointment of the Laser/ICF effort at LANL - that it is
extremely difficult to induce nuclear fusion this way  but, if Holmlid is
to be believed, surprisingly less difficult to trigger complete nucleon
disintegration from a deflated state. 

 

Less is more. Go figure.

[Vo]:What cold fusion needs is a cooking school