Re: [Vo]:Vortex-L Credo

[Alan Fletcher]

Thanks! The page I was looking for is http://amasci.com/weird/vmore.html and 
the partly-remembered credo : 

So, on Vortex-L we intentionally suspend the disbelieving attitude of those who 
follow the stereotypical "scientific method." While this does leave us open to 
the great personal embarrassment of repeatedly falling for hoaxes and 
delusional thinking, we tolerate this problem in our quest to consider ideas 
and phenomena which would otherwise be rejected out of hand without a fair 
hearing. There are diamonds in the filth, and we see that we cannot hunt for 
diamonds without getting dirty. 


From: "Terry Blanton"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 12:22:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Vortex-L Credo 



On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 2:59 PM Alan Fletcher < a...@well.com > wrote: 


Wow! It's years since I've posted by email !! (I've mostly been on 
https://www.lenr-forum.com ). 



Welcome back! 


BQ_BEGIN
Can some one (Mr Beaty?) please remind me of the "credo" of vortex-l (couldn't 
find it on the list or at http://amasci.com ) 

BQ_END

http://amasci.com/weird/wvort.html 

Cheers! 

[Vo]:Vortex-L Credo

[Alan Fletcher]

Wow! It's years since I've posted by email !!  (I've mostly been on 
https://www.lenr-forum.com).

Can some one (Mr Beaty?) please remind me of the "credo" of vortex-l (couldn't 
find it on the list or at http://amasci.com)

Something like "suspend disbelief long enough to analyze what is being said".
(NOT "be open minded as long as your brains don't fall out!!")

I need to quote it elsewhere (with attribution, of course).

ps Thanks to William Beaty for keeping the list alive all these years. 

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form of LENR?

[Alan Fletcher]

Not an expert in either .. but a lot of those look more like dendritic crystal 
growth than particle tracks. 

From: "Axil Axil"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 2:25:35 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form of 
LENR? 



https://steemit.com/science/@mfmp/ecco-macro-photography-of-strange-radiation-tracks-in-fuel-container
 




ECCO fuel preparation uses a cavitation based fuel preparation process that 
produces some sort of LENR active reaction activator. This activation seems to 
interact with plastic in a slow but relentless process until the plastic 
container is reduced to dust. 




Is anybody aware of a chemical reaction that can produce plastic 
disintegration, impact marks, and scratches on plastic as pictured in this 
deteriorating ECCO LENR reactor plastic fuel container? 




Those impact marks sure look like they are produced by high speed particles. 

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Alan Fletcher]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 18:04:23 -0400
Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Data General and the early microcomputers had toggle switches and LED 
> readouts of processor states. I never saw anyone use these controls, or read 
> them for any purpose.

My boss, Milt Meinck, back in the early seventies did!  When designing the 
chips for the first Singer electonic sewing machine. They had a very early 
Calma graphics system (Serial #5 or so), based on a DG Nova.  

The needed to queue up a lot of plots overnight. But the system would pause, 
waiting for the operator to press the "Enter" key to confirm the next plot.

They realized that the LED lights would settle to a particular state.

So they rigged a set of photodiodes over the lights, and a bit of logic 
circuitry to recognise that light configuration and activate a solenoid which 
depressed the "Enter" key.

When we bought a Calma system years later, the specification included an 
"Electronic finger" capability, for queing plots with no operator intervention.

-- 
Alan Fletcher <a...@well.com>

Re: [Vo]:Two scientists wrote a fake article about genitals causing Climate Change; "peer-reviewed" journal publishes it.

[Alan Fletcher]

On Sun, 21 May 2017 18:06:23 -0700
"Kevin O'Malley" <kevmol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/conceptual-penis-social-contruct-sokal-style-hoax-on-gender-studies/#0

http://crookedtimber.org/2017/05/22/prickly-questions/   has a different take 
on the "hoax".

They got an auto-reply from very-low-rated  NORMA: The International Journal 
for Masculinity Studies -- refering them to co-owned pay-to-play vanity site 
nobody's ever heard of.

In general, I'd say the peer-review process isn't (in general) discredited by 
this hoax.
-- 
Alan Fletcher <a...@well.com>

[Vo]:Missing Neutrons? In a neutron-rich tin nucleus, electromagnetism can win over the strong force

[Alan Fletcher]

Just wondering if this might be relevent to one of the Cold Fusion "miracles"

https://phys.org/news/2017-05-neutron-rich-tin-nucleus-electromagnetism-strong.html

In a recent experiment ... scientists .. made a very surprising observation: 
High-energy gamma rays—which are mediated by the electromagnetic force—are 
emitted in the decay of a certain excited nucleus—tin 133, in competition with 
neutron emission, the decay mode mediated by the strong nuclear force. This is 
despite the fact that the neutron emission was expected to be orders of 
magnitude faster since the force is much stronger.

...

The RIBF results suggest that structure effects, which are commonly neglected 
in the evaluation of neutron-emission probabilities in calculations of global 
beta-decay properties for astrophysical simulations, are much more important 
than generally assumed
...
-- 
Alan Fletcher <a...@well.com>

Re: [Vo]:Article: Electrons with no mass acquire a mass in the presence of a high magnetic field

[Alan Fletcher]

From: "Jack Cole"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 4:58:27 PM 
Subject: [Vo]:Article: Electrons with no mass acquire a mass in the presence of 
a high magnetic field 

Electrons with no mass acquire a mass in the presence of a high magnetic field 


http://flip.it/bkDC21 

Sloppy writing/reporting. Electrons with no EFFECTIVE mass (which can be 
NEGATIVE!) .. can acquire an EFFECTIVE mass in the presence of a high magnetic 
field. 

Since the "environment" (band structure etc etc) determines the "effective 
mass" it's no surprise that a change in the environment will change the 
effective mass. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics) 

Re: [Vo]:Validity of E-Cat 1 MW plant test

[Alan Fletcher]

Lewan reports : 


* The water heated by the MW plant was circulating in a closed loop, and 
since the return temperature was varying, due to different load in the process 
of the customer, Rossi insisted that the energy corresponding to heating the 
inflowing cooled water (at about 60˚C) to boiling temperature would not be 
taken into account for calculating the thermal power produced by the MW plant. 
The ERV accepted. (This was conservative, decreasing the calculated thermal 
power. The main part of the calculated thermal power, however, derives from the 
water being evaporated when boiling). 
* He also insisted that an arbitrary chosen 10 percent should be subtracted 
in the power calculation, with no other reason than to be conservative. The ERV 
accepted. 
* The average flow of water was 36 cubic meters per day. 

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg109919.html 

[Vo]:Re: CMNS: CONTRIBUTION FROM V. VYSOTSKII, NEW DISPUTE GENERATOR LAUNCHED<, 


Daniel Rocha Mon, 16 May 2016 14:56:42 -0700 
The circulating water amounted to 36m^3/day, which gives ~0.41l/s, that's
410g/s. 

I just happen to have a dandy steam calculator handy. 

Let's see what happens if we put 1MW into it. 

Worst case, starting from cold. 
Input water 10C, 5 bars pressure : Wet steam at 151C steam quality 0.863 (ie 
mostly steam, some water droplets) 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plot=d=0=0=9=9=1=1=JM+worst+case+10C+inlet+5+bar=0=0=1=0.41=1000=0=1000=1=20=1=10=5=2
 


Nominal, return water 60C, pressure 2 bars : almost dry steam at 121C Quality 
0.993 
Note : a kettle boiler will give about 0.95 quality 

http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plot=d=0=0=9=9=1=1=JM+nominal+60C+inlet+2+bar=0=0=1=0.41=1000=0=1000=1=20=1=60=2=2
 

Best case : inlet 99C 1 bar : Superheated dry steam at 170C 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plot=d=0=0=9=9=1=1=JM+best++90C+inlet+1+bar=0=0=1=0.41=1000=0=1000=1=20=1=90=1=2
 

These are all consistent with the described industrial use. 



From: "Jed Rothwell"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 4:53:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Validity of E-Cat 1 MW plant test 

Patrick Ellul < ellulpatr...@gmail.com > wrote: 




> The temperature was just over 100 deg C according to Rossi. 

Where did you get this quote from Rossi? 


You can compute that from what he told Lewan. See: 

[Vo]:Re: CMNS: CONTRIBUTION FROM V. VYSOTSKII, NEW DISPUTE GENERATOR LAUNCHED 

It is also shown directly in the sample calorimetry data I analyzed. 

- Jed 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

I accept your claim that 1MW in an un-ventilated, insulated room would be 
fatal. 

But that is not the case : a 30,000 CPM is sufficient to ventilate it, and 
there is a fan (of similar dimensions to one particular example) on the roof. 
(Plus convective loss, which would reduce the need for ventilation). 

Rossi presented no calorimetric data to Lewan (see my separate thread), except 
to note that he discounted the heat needed to bring the return water to boiling 
point. 

Rossi filed his contract with IH with the court. See sections 3(c) and 5 
Rossi says (and will presumably produce in court) that IH agreed to the ERV's 
technical specification and procedure (with modifications they requested). 

Rossi says (and will presumably produce in court) that IH and JM signed off on 
a strict separation (double-black-box) policy. 

There is NO evidence at all that ERV Penon is "Rossi's" man. 


From: "Jed Rothwell"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 3:11:49 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial 
ventilation would be fatal 

a.ashfield < a.ashfi...@verizon.net > wrote: 



Your claim that the heat released from the 1 MW plant would be fatal has been 
shot down. 



That was not my claim. You are making a straw-man argument. 

My claim was that without industrial grade ventilation, when you heat a space 
with 26 times more heat than is normally used in winter, and you leave the 
heaters on continuously without a thermostat, that space will soon be so hot it 
kills people. 

However, if there is proper ventilation, that will not happen. Therefore, in 
order to prove there was 1 MW of heat production, Rossi had to show the I.H. 
expert the ventilation equipment: the fans and ducts. The expert had to perform 
a conventional measurement of air temperature and flow to demonstrate that 1 MW 
of heat was continuously removed from the room. 

THAT is my claim. Do you agree or not? If not, why not? 

This is especially important because Rossi's own calorimetry shows no excess 
heat. The only way he could convince anyone is to show the customer equipment 
and ventilation. 



BQ_BEGIN
Likewise, your certainty of fraud because Rossi was the one who prevented IH 
from visiting the customer. 

BQ_END

Rossi was the one. He said so himself. I regard that as proof of fraud. If you 
do not, we have a large difference of opinion. 

I have several other reasons for thinking this is fraud, which I have not 
revealed. 


BQ_BEGIN
Your other evidence of fraud seem to come mainly from what IH has told you. 
BQ_END

No, it is from what Rossi himself has said, and from his calorimetric data, 
which shows no excess heat. I.H. played no role in my evaluation. 


BQ_BEGIN
Before accepting that IH is a knight in shining armor who speaks only truth you 
should read this. 
BQ_END

I.H. has nothing to do with it. Rossi himself provided all the proof I need 
that he is a fraud, mainly in his interview with Lewan. 

- Jed 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

The point is that this thread's title : "1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. 
facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal" is false. 

On the contract point, re-read the IH/Rossi contract 
https://animpossibleinvention.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/rossi_et_al_v_darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001-2.pdf
 sections 3(c) and 5. 

The ERV signs off on "Guaranteed Performance", they pay. No ifs, no buts. (On 
the earlier acceptance test they had a "discuss with the ERV" clause, but not 
on the $89M.) 


From: "Jed Rothwell"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 1:50:40 PM 

The point is, it was incumbent upon Rossi to show that fan to the I.H. expert 
and to let him measure the air temperature and flow rate. This was a 
professional evaluation. You cannot take someone's word for something in this 
situation. Especially not before signing a check for $89 million. That would be 
unthinkable. 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

The roof has one circular roof fan at the left, and a rectangular box at the 
other. 

Presuming that the manufacturing area was was adjacent to JM's offices (on the 
left) the left-most circular fan vents the manufacturing area. 

Heres the fan : http://lenr.qumbu.com/steampics/160521_fans_01.jpg ( 7 pixels) 
And a small car (6 feet wide). 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/steampics/160521_fans_02.jpg (10 pixels) 

That gives the diameter of the fan as about 50 inches. 

Here's a 32,000 CFM roof fan that fits (49 inch outside diameter) : 
http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/IND-FA-R-B/LFI-RD42T3750CM.html 

Conclusion : allowing for heat loss through the ceiling, 1MW can be safely 
dissipated by a fan of this size. 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

> Rossi himself revealed some of the most important details in his interview 
> with Lewan. His numbers show that the temperature was close to 100 deg C. 

I can't find that statement in Lewan's interview : 
https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/05/16/rossi-makes-offer-on-swedish-factory-building-plus-more-updates/
 

The only mention of boiling point is that he ignores the energy used to raise 
the return water from 60C (variable) to the boiling point (100C+-). This (with 
the arbitrary 10% reduction) is very conservative. 

If the planned operating temperature was around 100C then I'd sure put into the 
specification a measurement of the steam quality, or a measurement of the 
pressure to ensure that it's not in the wet/dry range. 

If I were IH I certainly wouldn't have given the final decision directly to the 
ERV, without an appeal/audit option. 

From: "Jed Rothwell"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 10:00:49 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial 
ventilation would be fatal 

Peter Gluck < peter.gl...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Jed you say you know the data but have to keep them secret. 
Correct? 



Rossi himself revealed some of the most important details in his interview with 
Lewan. His numbers show that the temperature was close to 100 deg C. 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

And that's assuming the air is vented directly from the machine to the fan. It 
would actually rise by convection, spread over the whole ceiling, and lose a 
lot of heat through the roof. 

I think this puts it WAY below the "fatal" level. 


From: "Daniel Rocha"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 12:29:44 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial 
ventilation would be fatal 

That's a surprisingly small volume. The machine has one of its smaller 
dimensions 3 meters. So, even 1.5m/s per second at one end would cool the 
device. 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

Previous link was for wall-mounted fans. I think the sub-unit has two roof 
fans, so 2 * 16K CFM 36 inch fans would do the job. eg 
http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/IND-FA-R-TXB/SP-TXB36RHULWH3S.html 


From: "Alan Fletcher" <a...@well.com> 
To: "vortex-l" <vortex-l@eskimo.com> 
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 12:21:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial 
ventilation would be fatal 

Correction ... the photos on that page were lower CFM ... 36 to 42 inch 
diameter, not so teeny tiny. 
eg http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/IND-FA-EF-PM-A/LFI-ADD36T11000B.html 30K 
CFM, 36 inch 


From: "Alan Fletcher" <a...@well.com> 
That's a teeny tiny little fan! 
http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/wall-ventilation.html?=CIb8x7zb68wCFQEJaQodk4AMnQ
 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

Correction ... the photos on that page were lower CFM ... 36 to 42 inch 
diameter, not so teeny tiny. 
eg http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/IND-FA-EF-PM-A/LFI-ADD36T11000B.html 30K 
CFM, 36 inch 


From: "Alan Fletcher" <a...@well.com> 
That's a teeny tiny little fan! 
http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/wall-ventilation.html?=CIb8x7zb68wCFQEJaQodk4AMnQ
 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

Back-of-the-envelope calculation 

I'm going to look at a column of air of volume V -- with area A ... and a 
height H sufficient to hold 
1-second's worth of 1MW of heat. This has to be vented in 1 second. 

1MW is 1000 kJ /second. 
Q = 1000 kJ in one second 

Specific heat of air at 100C is 1 kJ / (kg K) 
Density of air at 100C is r = 1kg/m^3 

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-properties-d_156.html 

Ambient air is 20C, heated air is 100C dK = 80 

Q = S * dK * M 


Mass = 1kg * r * V = r * V 

Q = S * dK * r * V 

Solve for V : 

V = Q / ( S * dK * r ) = 1000 / ( 1. * 80 * 1.) 
= 12.5 m^3 per SECOND 
= 750 m^3 per MINUTE 

= 26,486 CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) 

That's a teeny tiny little fan! 
http://www.industrialfansdirect.com/wall-ventilation.html?=CIb8x7zb68wCFQEJaQodk4AMnQ
 


From: "Alan Fletcher" <a...@well.com> 
To: "vortex-l" <vortex-l@eskimo.com> 
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 10:37:55 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial 
ventilation would be fatal 

This chimney sizing link doesn't really apply --- it's for natural draft up a 
chimney of a given height and diameter -- WITHOUT a fan. 

(The longer the chimney the higher velocity of the draft, so a given diameter 
can exhaust more heat. They recommend " The velocity of air and flue gas in a 
smaller furnace should not exceed 2 m/s . " -- so I presume that the charts are 
based on this, and not the maximum 10m/s. ). 

I haven't put a ruler on the aerial photos of the vents on the roof ... but it 
looks like they could easily be 22 inches. 

Since a 22-inch vent WITHOUT a fan at a velocity of 2 m/s can handle 1MW, it 
seems likely that a vent WITH a fan could also do so. 

There's probably a vent/fan sizing chart somewhere, but this isn't it. 


From: "Jed Rothwell" <jedrothw...@gmail.com> 
To: "vortex-l" <vortex-l@eskimo.com> 
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 9:16:31 AM 
As I said, 1 MW in this space would be like running 16 space heating furnaces 
continuously without thermostats. To remove that much heat, you need a 22" vent 
and a large fan. An expert from I.H. would have to confirm this ventilation 
equipment is installed and working to confirm the claim. 1 MW of heat release 
calls for at least at 22" vent: 

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/chimney-sizing-d_175.html 

Re: [Vo]:1 MW of heat in a 6,500 sq. ft. facility without industrial ventilation would be fatal

[Alan Fletcher]

This chimney sizing link doesn't really apply --- it's for natural draft up a 
chimney of a given height and diameter -- WITHOUT a fan. 

(The longer the chimney the higher velocity of the draft, so a given diameter 
can exhaust more heat. They recommend " The velocity of air and flue gas in a 
smaller furnace should not exceed 2 m/s . " -- so I presume that the charts are 
based on this, and not the maximum 10m/s. ). 

I haven't put a ruler on the aerial photos of the vents on the roof ... but it 
looks like they could easily be 22 inches. 

Since a 22-inch vent WITHOUT a fan at a velocity of 2 m/s can handle 1MW, it 
seems likely that a vent WITH a fan could also do so. 

There's probably a vent/fan sizing chart somewhere, but this isn't it. 


From: "Jed Rothwell"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 9:16:31 AM 
As I said, 1 MW in this space would be like running 16 space heating furnaces 
continuously without thermostats. To remove that much heat, you need a 22" vent 
and a large fan. An expert from I.H. would have to confirm this ventilation 
equipment is installed and working to confirm the claim. 1 MW of heat release 
calls for at least at 22" vent: 

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/chimney-sizing-d_175.html 

Re: [Vo]:Hotcat tests revisited

[Alan Fletcher]

(My apologies for the yukky formatting).

[Vo]:Hotcat tests revisited

[Alan Fletcher]

(I posted this on 
https://animpossibleinvention.com/2016/04/27/lets-join-forces-to-bring-out-the-truth-on-rossi-ih-affair-2
 )

Hi folks ... jumping back in after a long absence (been working on a 
satellite/cellphone texting system). I'm "Alanf777" in a lot of places, eg 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer

For those who don't know me, I reported extensively on the ecat experiments, at 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/ (excluding the 1MW Bologna acceptance test).

I am in the category of those who think that the Ecat is NOT a fake, but agree 
that many of the tests have been inconclusive. 

Note that I rated as "inconclusive" both the "heat exchanger" test 
(thermocouples mounted on the heat exchanger) and the Lugano report (emissivity 
questions)
see http://lenr.qumbu.com/blackbody_141027A.php  (Referenced in GSVIT).

However, now that we know the players I discount most of the accusations of 
fraud,  (fake power lines etc etc) unless IH were totally incompetent, or 
trying to defraud other investment groups.

We have a total of FIVE tests of a Hotcat device

1. Penon report 
http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/105322688-Penon4-1.pdf 
(This was the one with a hole down the center). 

   This had a steel outer cylinder, coated with refractory paint.  NO ceramics 
involved. 

   His initial calculation was wrong, but I can't find the revised report. (I 
think that the central hole and the entire inside of this hotcat were in 
thermal equilibrium, so we only have to consider radiation from the outer 
cyclinder.)

2. Levi et al Dec 2012, March 2013  
   http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1305/1305.3913.pdf

   HT0 (November) : self-destructed, melting steel and ceramic.
   (Noting that though none of the hotcat replications did that)

   HT1 (December) : Steel cylinder containing the charge
Ceramic support for the heater wires
Ceramic outer shell
Refractory paint.

   HT2 (March) : Steel inner cyclinder
 Steel outer cyclinder
 Macota enamel paint
 
   HT-Dummy : same as HT2 
  Calibrated with known emissivity dots up to  300C
  (Out of range, but neither the steel cylinder nor enamel paint 
   are likely to vary significantly in emissivity with wavelength.)

3. Lugano 
   http://www.elforsk.se/Global/Omv%C3%A4rld_system/filer/LuganoReportSubmit.pdf

   Here we have emisssivity problems (I haven't studied Thomas Clarke's report 
... though on Vortex we were warned not to accept it unconditionally).

   Also, the callibration runs were outside of the operational range. 
   
I invite Thomas Clarke and GSVIT to re-evaluate the Penon and Levi (2012-13) 
results using the callibrated emissivities of the refractory paints 
and/or the underlying steel cylinder.

Back in 2011 http://evworld.com/blogs.cfm?blogid=972  I prophetically said

   Unfortunately the four tests didn’t measure everything, or weren’t run long 
enough, so although EVERY type of fake was eliminated by ONE experiment, no ONE 
experiment eliminated ALL possible fakes.

  Using these criteria, the eCAT is judged to be real by a preponderance of 
evidence, but not yet beyond all reasonable doubt.

So here we are leaving behind (for the moment) both science and commerce .. and 
 going to the courts!

Re: [Vo]:Re: I.H. press release responding to Rossi

[Alan Fletcher]

Seems Darden/IH et al have retained Jones Day  to 
represent them.  
< 
http://freeenergyscams.com/now-we-know-the-defendants-law-firm-in-the-rossi-v-d
arden-e-cat-lawsuit/ > 

This apparently gives them 60 days to reply in detail. 
Presumably it'll cost them an arm and a leg, but with $89M at stake
... 

Re: [Vo]:Next Big Future - goes out on a limb

[Alan Fletcher]

Siferkol reported in April 2015 
https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/news/index.php/News/91-Sifferk%C3%B6ll-First-Hand-Information-from-Visitors-of-the-Industrial-Heat-E-Cat-Cus/
 

I know first hand from very reliable sources that themselves have visited the 
Rossi/ Industrial Heat E-Cat customer that the plant works very well. This has 
been verified both by measurements made by the customer and by significantly 
reduced electricity bills. The plant seems to be able to produce heat from 
electricity with a COP in the range of 20-80 depending on the level of 
self-sustain-mode applied. I guess that is what Rossi is working on right now. 

The implications of COP in this range is of course nothing less than … 
revolutionary … ”a tipping point” to quote Tom Darden 

This is a good day! 

Mats Lewan confirmed : UPDATE: Since a COP (Coefficient of Performance — output 
energy/input energy) ranging from 20 to 80 has been reported, I can confirm 
that I have got the same information. 



From: "Jed Rothwell"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 11:40:18 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Next Big Future - goes out on a limb 

a.ashfield < a.ashfi...@verizon.net > wrote: 


You write about claims of a COP of 80. My recollection was that it peaked at 60 
and we don't really know what the average was. 


You may be right. I tend to get numbers wrong. 

- Jed 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

[Alan Fletcher]

* 
Teemu 
April 8, 2016 at 6:20 AM 


Dear Andrea Rossi, 

In this document it says that Henry W. Johnson, aka the President of Leonard 
Corp., is also the President of JMC. Did I understand correctly? 
http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.2.pdf
 

Thanks, 

~Teemu 



* 
Andrea Rossi 
April 8, 2016 at 9:54 AM 


Teemu: I knew the Customer in the office of my Attorney Henry Johnson. They 
were enthusiast to test our 1 MW plant, to see if it really worked, because 
they were ( and are ) interested to buy more plants for their facilities in 
Europe. They wanted not to be exposed, though, therefore incorporated JM 
Products and made a plant for their production to make the test and appointed 
President their Attorney, who was also, as I said, my Attorney. IH knew all 
this and agreed, obviously, on this, making a rental agreement with JM Products 
to make the test in their factory. When IH met with the President of JM in 
Raleigh, I was present and I explained that he was also my Attorney. No problem 
has been raised by IH. Warm Regards, A.R. 




From: "Patrick Ellul"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 8:08:15 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer 

Henry W. Johnson is a lawyer just hiding the actual customer by being nominated 
president of the shell company that is owned by a British Company. 
Not unlike the Panama Papers business. 

On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Eric Walker < eric.wal...@gmail.com > wrote: 



I see now that Free Energy Scams has connected Henry W. Johnson to Leonardo 
Corp [1]: 


BQ_BEGIN

Leonardo 03-03-2014 — ANNUAL REPORT 
There were two major changes in this filing: 
• Andrea Rossi became CEO. 
• Henry W. Johnson became President. 




I do not know how to substantiate this detail. 

Eric 


[1] 
http://freeenergyscams.com/andrea-rossi-ecat-industrial-heat-llc-conclusions-drawn-from-the-n-c-radiation-protection-report/
 

BQ_END




-- 
Patrick 

www.tRacePerfect.com 
The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! 
The quickest puzzle ever! 

Re: [Vo]:Re: Copy of Rossi's civil complaint

[Alan Fletcher]

So IH had Fulvio Fabiani reporting to them on the 1MW test. 

He should be an interesting witness: 

https://animpossibleinvention.com/2015/11/25/rossis-engineer-i-have-seen-things-you-people-wouldnt-believe/
 



“As a skeptic I started there, and in the beginning Rossi wouldn’t let me see 
any data. Gradually he gained confidence since I solved a few problems. And 
after some time I found myself with the truth in my hands, having made some 
calculations, and I was amazed. I made the same calculations twenty times and I 
tried to find the error, but there was no error. 




“Now after seeing everything that Rossi is doing, and the levels at which we 
have arrived, there really is no error, but already at that time he saw things 
that ordinary people were not yet able to see. 

... 




We have it all filmed, which still cannot be disclosed. We have photographs of 
creatures that emit pure light that have completely melted the reactor down, 
all in a very quiet way. You just turn off the stimuli system and the reaction 
is switched off. It’s impressive. 




... 




(1MW test) “My ‘baby’ as I call it, because I and my colleagues put it all 
together, I see my baby walking every day, and now I can even feel her breath, 
as I call it. You feel it when she produces steam and bubbles. We have learned 
to identify some moments of the reaction as a function of the type of boiling 
inside. Just try to imagine. Now we really know what she’s doing by the ear. 
And everyday I collect about 1.5 million records. And it is impressive.” 




... 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer

[Alan Fletcher]

https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/henry-w-johnson-14210.aspx
 

Coral Springs, FL 
— 
President for Bellwether Global Corporation 


Henry Johnson has been associated with forty-three companies, according to 
public records. The companies were formed over a forty-five year period with 
the most recent being incorporated one year ago in March of 2015. Fifteen of 
the companies are still active while the remaining twenty-eight are now listed 
as inactive. 

Including : 

https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/leonardo-corporation/66632333.aspx
 

Johnson President, Rossi CEO 

https://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Miami-Beach/refc-real-estate-corp/137192381.aspx
 

Johnson President, Rossi CEO 

From: "Eric Walker"  
To: "vortex-l"  
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 8:18:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi's customer 

Interestingly, that looks like a normal business park: 

https://goo.gl/V4AOLX 

I noticed this registration information for JM Chemical Products in Boca Raton: 
https://www.statelog.com/j-m-chemical-products-inc-boca-raton-fl 

The registration took place in July 2014. According to the lawsuit, IH and IPH 
were delinquent in finding a facility to test the 1MW E-Cat, and Rossi had to 
find one himself. Here is what the suit then says: 




63. Despite IH's and IPH's continued failure to secure an adequate testing 
facility, ROSSI took it upon himself to locate and secure a location in which 
to conduct the Guaranteed Performance Test, as well as obtain the requisite 
regulatory approvals for the operation of the ECat Unit. 
64. On or before August 13,2014, ROSSI and LEONARDO located a customer in 
Miami, Florida, who agreed to allow its facility to be used for the Guaranteed 
Performance Test and even agreed to pay IH up to One Thousand Dollars 
($1,000.00) per day for the energy produced by the E-Cat Unit during the 
Guaranteed Performance Test 



So the company where the test took place (JM Chemical Products) was located on 
or before August 2014. 

Eric 

[Vo]:Rossi Patent Final Rejection

[Alan Fletcher]

The patent office issued a final rejection of Rossi's patent
application.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/258595858/USPTO-Final-Rejection-Rossi-Patent

I'm not surprised ... he didn't reveal anything of the internal
structure or catalysts, and recently added the Legano report as
evidence.

I classified that as inconclusive -- based mainly on the
emissivity of the ceramic used, and (as for high temperature
superconductivity) there is no agreed theory for overcoming the
coulomb barrier.

Though anyone who believes that the free-space coulomb equations
apply on to a metal/hydrogen matrix, with a sea of electrons
surrounding it, and the possibility of multi-atom quantum
conglomerates such as Bose-Einstein condensates, plasmons, phonons
etc etc ...  is (IMHO) willfully-ignorantly nuts.

The condition of cold fusion is not the same as hot fusion. (rough
quote).

Re: [Vo]:Investigation by NC Department of Health into IH/Rossi/Vaughn/etc

[Alan Fletcher]

That is very strange indeed. I doubt that Vaughn would lie or conceal anything. 

- Original Message -

From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2015 10:27:43 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Investigation by NC Department of Health into 
IH/Rossi/Vaughn/etc 

INteresting quote: Mr JT Vaughn stated .. that Mr Rossi did not appear 
credible (paraphrase) 

I emailed NCDH for clarification. 

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Blaze Spinnaker  blazespinna...@gmail.com  
wrote: 



http://freeenergyscams.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/NCDHHS-Report.pdf 

Re: SV: [Vo]:Notes from MFMP Lugano Thermal Verification -- emissivity should have been .95?

[Alan Fletcher]

 The temperature reading in the thermal camera is basically calculated through 
 the Stefan-Boltzmann Law (‘backwards’) and on the input emissivity. The 
 erroneous temperature and emissivity are then cancelled out when calculating 
 the radiated power through Stefan-Boltzmann Law. Right? 

I haven't looked at the specs for a while (since the first hotcat test), but 
the Optris calculation of the temperature isn't a simple function of the 
temperature. The way they describe their calculation, it seems to be the sum of 
a number of calculations with different powers of ... something. 

The only way to find out which direction it goes with emissivity would be to 
point the optris at a known temperature source, enter a range of emissivities 
and see how the predicted temperature varies. 

The MFMP folks should be able to do that during their callibration. 

Re: [Vo]:Investigation by NC Department of Health into IH/Rossi/Vaughn/etc

[Alan Fletcher]

My problem is that the 10 people team in North Carolina doesn't seem to 
exist. 

Re: SV: [Vo]:Investigation by NC Department of Health into IH/Rossi/Vaughn/etc

[Alan Fletcher]

That office doesn't seem very busy. The complaint was in November, and it's 
report 2014-1 

Needs some investigative journalism ... can you wrangle a trip out of it, Mats? 

Re: [Vo]:Dark wires in glowing reactor ?

[Alan Fletcher]

At 09:27 PM 1/13/2015, Jones Beene wrote:
There have a number of comments about images 
from the Parkhomov/Rossi reactors which appear 
to show dark wires in front of a brightly glowing background.


Yet … we know that these wires should be 
strongly incandescent (unless the photo was 
taken immediately after the current was turned 
off)… and if the wires are powered, they will be 
glowing so brightly by themselves that they 
should not be seen as dark, even if the interior 
of the reactor were brighter than the wires 
themselves. There is no evidence that the 
current was off - so we should look for other explanations.




Don't trust uncalibrated photographs. The 
exposure is most likely set for the brightest 
area, and anything less bright will appear dark. Think sunspots. 

Re: [Vo]:Do we live in a black hole?

[Alan Fletcher]

The idea of our universe being inside a black hole has been around quite a 
while. 

Recently : 
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/02/140218-black-hole-blast-explains-big-bang/
 

Re: [Vo]:That doggone dogbone

[Alan Fletcher]

You MFMP guys have started posting photos. But please do the following: 

1. Get a color calibration card, eg Kodak Color Separation Guide and Gray Scale 
(Q-13, 8 Long) 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=sku=26662gclid=CjwKEAiAkpCkBRCtstKQo5ia5nESJACsCikR0WtiGGjptERAk_sJ4mJxnfK3nRKGKJyBPBw76JmgVxoCz6rw_wcBQ=is=REGA=details
 

Include the card in every photo. 

2. Make sure you use a camera with manual control, and use the same camera for 
every photo. Turn off Auto White Balance (AWB) and auto ISO. 
3 Optional : also get a grayscale card --- and ONE TIME ONLY set the camera to 
get the white balance off the card. 

Otherwise, just pick a suitable value. 

Note the AWB value (color temperature). 

4. Take every photo at the same AWB and preferably ISO. Make sure that no 
channels are over-exposed. 
- Original Message -

From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 6:40:57 PM 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback Prometion statement

[Alan Fletcher]

A very condemning statement from Promethion (E-Cat licensee) --- they had 1MW 
orders, but Rossi wouldn't complete them. 

http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/11/24/prometeon-srl-addresses-e-cat-licensee-status/
 

Re: [Vo]:Who could it be???

[Alan Fletcher]

* 
Hank Mills 
October 13th, 2014 at 10:22 PM 


Hello Everyone, 

A new article on PESN has been posted about how Dr. Brian Ahern, a scientist 
and long time LENR researcher, has changed his opinion about the paper 
documenting the month long test of a high temperature E-Cat. Initially, he 
indicated that he believed no excess heat had been produced. Such a statement 
aligns with his previous skeptical comments about the technology. But after 
consulting with an expert in IR measurements – who declared the cameras and 
methodologies used during the test were correct and the same as he would have 
chosen – his doubts were resolved. He now feels the results are accurate. 
Please read the full article at: 

http://pesn.com/2014/10/13/9602546_Hell-Freezes-Over–Brian-Aherns_Doubts_on_E-Cat_Test_Resolved/
 

Perhaps he will be one of many previously skeptical individuals to recognize 
the truth that the E-Cat works. 



* 
Andrea Rossi 
October 13th, 2014 at 10:52 PM 


Hank Mills: Dr Brian Ahern is a sincere and honest scientist. He says what he 
sincerely thinks to be right. Sometimes with excess of nerve, but I prefer go 
to the core of problems, ignoring the form outside. Speaking of things that 
count, and not of the useless blabla, the work made by Ahern with nickel and 
hydrogen is smart, as I already said in the period during which we got not very 
tender words from him. I confirm my opinion that he will be probably the first 
one to arrive to an industrial product after us. His publication has been very 
convincing for us. Thank you for the kind information. Warm Regards, A.R. 

Re: [Vo]:They call me a moron. A reply.

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:59:56 AM 

there is a huge problem with lugano that McKubre have spotted, bad calibration, 
but that one have to consider numerically... 
what is the error of emissivity required, and what is the real temperature if 
COP=1 in lugano test... 

nobody answered. I tried but I suspect I'm wrong, because I don't know exactly 
how is computed the IR cam estimated temperature at a given emissivity claim. 

NB: if someone can give me the method I can revert the equation. 

- - - - 

The basic equations are in my report 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/blackbody_141105A.php 

I started looking into the sensitivity to emissivity (and even wrote an IR 
camera simulator), but didn't finish it. 

The calculated power from Stefan-Boltzmann (equal to Planck if emmisivity is 
constant with wavelength) is 

P = c1 * em * T^4 ...(1) 

But the camera itself measures the power it's receiving, P_measured, and 
derives T from that, the emmissivity, and internal constants. I don't have my 
notes at hand, so lets just say that 

T = function(emmissivity,measured_power) ...(2) 

At worst the estimated T will be proportional to em -- if so, putting this into 
(1) gives 

P = c1 * em * em^4 * P_measured ...(3) 

--- ie proportional to em^5 (But it might be em^3 or even better ... so don't 
quote this  ) 

I didn't run the error margins, but my impression was that it would still yield 
COP1 even in the worst plausible scenario. 

I probably won't have time to get back to this for a couple of weeks. 

[Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

Andrea Rossi
November 19th, 2014 at 7:43 AM

Daniele Passerini (blogger of “22 Passi”)
You asked me few days ago about why some of our commercial Licensees have 
cancelled their websites. The reason is that we decided to offer to all our 
commercial Licensees to buy back their licence at a price, obviously, superior 
to the price they paid for it. Some of our Licensees have accepted our proposal 
and sold us back their license.
The details of the agreements are covered by NDA ( Non Disclosure Agreement).
We maintained with our former Licensees a friendly and collaborative 
relationship, open to the possibility of future collaboration upon specific 
issues.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

- - - - 

For the ecat bets that probably reduces the probability that Rossi's running 
a scam. Of course, the statement could be positive or negative, truth-wise.

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:37:06 PM 
 Yeah I was going to post that as well. Very peculiar. Why would anyone sell 
 back the license as things are heating up? 

Because domestic ecats are going to be a very long time coming? 
(Weren't the licenses mostly for setting up domestic ecat factories? Or was 
that Defkalion?) 
Also, 1 MW's could be built in a single factory and shipped world-wide, and 
maybe had different conditions in the license? 

Would rather take a quick, small [ could be big!] profit than hang on for 
(potentially) decades? 
(I gather some of them didn't have deep pockets to start with, and maybe 
couldn't actually have fulfilled their licenses) 

In short : depends. 

Re: [Vo]:Twilight Zone Sci Fi Plot Submission #134

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:39:58 PM 
Visitors from the future come to earth in the late 80s and plot disinformation 
on cold fusion because they know that 100 COP in the hands of Joe Random will 
inevitably blow up the planet. 

I was just reading a novel Killing Time (which I bought for 50c, to read 
while waiting 2 hours for a bus), in which one time traveller comes back to get 
the secret for time travel (in order, it turned out, to patent it), while 
another tries to stop him. 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Ransom Wuller rwul...@freeark.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 2:20:57 PM 


That’s a good question. The license was only good for three years (based on a 
leaked example) and it relied on products being available for sale, otherwise 
it had no value. If IH had no plans for production during the remaining window 
(1 year or so), the license would have been worthless save for the right of the 
licensee to sue Rossi. Just speculating but the choice may have been to accept 
no sales through the term (with some hope to extend in the future), sue or a 
buyout. Just speculation on my part. 






I haven't found the text yet, but here's a report on Roger Green's 
Australia/Asia license : 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Ransom Wuller rwul...@freeark.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 2:20:57 PM 


Blaze: 



That’s a good question. The license was only good for three years (based on a 
leaked example) and it relied on products being available for sale, otherwise 
it had no value. If IH had no plans for production during the remaining window 
(1 year or so), the license would have been worthless save for the right of the 
licensee to sue Rossi. Just speculating but the choice may have been to accept 
no sales through the term (with some hope to extend in the future), sue or a 
buyout. Just speculation on my part. 



Ransom 









I haven't found the license text yet, but here's a report on one of the biggest 
investors -- Roger Greene / Australia 

http://pesn.com/2013/05/17/9602315_Interview-with_E-Cat-Distributor-License-Broker_Roger-Green/
 




Most people are putting in around $10,000. 

I have put in more than anyone by far: $400,000, he said, which apparently 
has secured him a good chunk of Asia, along with Australia. I've put my life 
savings in and mortgaged houses. 

He pointed out that: If it wasn't emerging, and we sold one, then you could 
add a few more zeroes to these license [prices]. 

Roger's cut from bringing other licensees to the table comes in the form of 
equity, not cash. So the only way he makes money is when the units start 
selling 




(And it's distribution only -- manufacturing was Defkalion). 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

The license was leaked by Gary Wright -- http://shutdownrossi.com/ : still 
active (latest post Nov 14) but I can't find the text. The original link 
http://shutdownrossi.com/?page_id=775 has rotted. 

Re: [Vo]:ecat license buyback

[Alan Fletcher]

A kind reader sent me the link. Thank you. 

http://shutdownrossi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Leonardo-Corporation-Exclusive-India-E-Cat-License-S.pdf
 

This particular one was for Roger Greene/Indian Sub-continent (unsigned) ... 
with the year 2012 printed on the form. 
It was for three years, and would only be renewed automatically if sales 
exceeded 10M. 
So it would expire next year if there were no sales. 

[Vo]:No new posts?

[Alan Fletcher]

Is it just me, or . 

Re: [Vo]:No new posts?

[Alan Fletcher]

... everybody except me

[Vo]:Interview with Piero Andreuccetti by Vessy

[Alan Fletcher]

Andrea Rossi
November 10th, 2014 at 7:24 AM

Andrew:
Thank you for the link to this interview. This is another important endorsement 
to LENR coming from the top level Science.
The considerations of the nuclear eng. Piero Andreuccetti of CESI ( Italian RD 
leading center belonging to ENEL) are very intelligent. I also agree with him 
about the work in course at the MIT directed by Dr Brian Ahern.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

The LENR seen from a Nuclear Engineer
http://www.ecat-thenewfire.com/blog/

I intervieweAndreuccettid Piero Andreuccetti, an experienced Italian nuclear 
engineer who has always worked in the energy sector and follows the LENR for 
many years. His Company, CESI SpA, is a leader in providing consulting, 
testing, and engineering services to key players and institutions in the power 
industry.

...

7) If you owned the IP of the E-Cat, would you risk to lose it allowing to 
third parties an isotopic analysis of fuel and ash?

“As far as IP protection is concerned, my opinion is that allowing a completely 
open and independent third party isotopic analysis of fuel and ash is risky 
enough… I understand scientific method needs, but real industrial world need 
adequate self-defence measures. And I repeat: E-Cat success, if any, will not 
happen by a general consensus decided in a number of Academia congresses… 
market will decide, and going on the market imply IP protection, engineering, 
marketing, etc. Epistemology, though important, will come after”.

PIERO ANDREUCCETTI, Nuclear Engineer, is the Property and Technical Services 
Manager at CESI SpA, in Milan, Italy. He has a Ph.D. in Safety of Nuclear Power 
Plants obtained at the University of Pisa, and a Maitrise en Management at the 
Université libre de Bruxelles.

Re: [Vo]:dreams

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Frank Znidarsic fznidar...@aol.com 
Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:33:58 AM 

 How could this be? All of the information from the previous dream was all 
 implanted in my one mind. The security guard was a figment of this minds's 
 dream. How could he know things that my dreaming self did not? We were both 
 operating on the same set of information. What's remarkable is that our minds 
 can hide information from the dreamer that one of the characters in the dream 
 knows. Then we can later remember it. How can that be, its like a locked data 
 set. 

 I have now discovered that there is a lot going on in our minds that we are 
 not aware of. Dreams can go in a sequel with a different set of characters 
 than exist within our waking life. 

I suspect there's a lot of information locked in the brain for which we don't 
have the key (or trigger). Heck, I have both moderate prosopagnosia (inability 
to recognise faces) AND bad recall of names (they'll usually pop up five 
minutes after the person has departed). I've taken to telling people to 
re-introduce themselves to me. 

Between about 8 and 15, whenever I had a fever of over 101F I'd have the exact 
same flying dream. But (except for directed/falling-asleep dreams) I can't 
remember a continuing-plot dream. 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

A few things I'm not clear about in the 1MW reactor 600 

Fig 17 : 
http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=20140326711PageNum=14IDKey=72E161583AAEHomeUrl=http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-adv.html%2526r=1%2526p=1%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526d=PG01%2526S1=20140326711.PGNR.%2526OS=DN/20140326711%2526RS=DN/20140326711
 

It doesn't show the actual position of the reactor element[s] inside the 
reactor shelter [606], although other elements like the internal reservoir 
[612] pumps [610] and flow meters [614] are shown. 

There are no pumps shown from the external tanks [620a,620b] into the reactor 
shelter : the text says that pumps [610] do this, though they're shown as 
pumping water from the internal reservoir back to the tank. (There are a total 
of 80 pumps! Hard to squeeze them all into the diagram.) 

The readings MW1a and MW1b must be from the Flow Meters into the reactor -- 
Tank a : 1050 to 1750 kg Tank b : 2900 to 3900 kg. 

I presume that the water cycle to and from the top (a) and bottom (b) tanks are 
run at the same time, but it's not clear why they use different amounts of 
water. 

It might be that the shelter either contains spare heating elements on one 
side, or that one side isn't fully populated. 

None of this matters to the COP calculation, of course. I haven't reconciled 
why my conservative COP is greater than theirs. 

I tried splitting the calculation in two sections, allocating the power in 
proportion to the separate flows. 
This gives COP = 12.84 and 12.83 using the reduced mass and ignoring 
super-heating. 

I get a slightly higher value for heating the water to boiling point -- 120 vs 
117 kWh (they use a specific heat of 1.14 kWh/gK, mine uses a lonlinear 
official water table), but a smaller value for evaporation -- 143.8 kWh vs 
their 144.01 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

 The total output is 1.440113 MW --- so reactor 600 is most likely the 
 initial on-site customer acceptance test for the new 1MW system 

Correction -- the total excess output was 1.44 MWh ... but the duration isn't 
described, so the power can't be calculated. 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

Quick read : most of it describes the physical structure and results of the 
first (2013) independent test. It says nothing about what the reaction is, 
other than it contains nickel and produces hydrogen. 

Banding/shadows : for the melted/banding run it gives the dimensions and 
positions of the bands and the heater elements. The dark parts are where the 
wires are. It ascribes these to shadow, though I still think those wires (based 
on the Penon pictures) were too thin to produce shadows from the internal, 
diffuse source. 

I think that the result from the different energy transfer of ceramic and the 
gaps in the ceramic (where the energy would have to be transferred by radiation 
or conduction through a gas). I deduce that the conduction through the ceramic 
won. It still means that the energy was coming from inside, and not from the 
heater wires. 

600 is new - describing an assemblage of 18 reactors 

[0169] A system 600 for producing heat, according to at least one embodiment, 
is illustrated in FIG. 17. According to at least one embodiment, the system 
includes a high number of individual reactor devices. The reactor device 400 
described above represents an exemplary choice for use in the system 600, 
although other reactor devices including reactor device 200 and others are 
within the scope of these description of the system 600. In a particular 
example of the system 600, a total number of 18 reactor devices are used. Each 
of the reactors may absorb a power of about 1.1 kW. ... 

This is used to generate STEAM --- the COP is reported as *** 11.07 *** 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

Note that the inventor is Rossi, working for IH ... but the ASSIGNEE is still 
Leonardo Corporation, Miami. 

So apparently IH didn't get ALL the IP rights  

Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 10:03:38 AM 

 They can make plenty of money from a COP=6 thermal system, even with an 
 electric drive. 

Reported elsewhere, but just for the record here. The new patent describes an 
18-reactor hotcat system [600], generating steam, with a reported cop of 11.07 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 8:41:48 AM 

 600 is new - describing an assemblage of 18 reactors 
 This is used to generate STEAM --- the COP is reported as *** 11.07 *** 

No mention (that I can see) of steam quality or anything to measure it. 

[0196] Throughout the test, the temperatures of steam measured by the two 
probes have always been the same or very similar to each other. Throughout the 
test, the pressure of the steam was always equal to atmospheric pressure 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

Seeing that the publication date was set by the USPTO, I doubt it =8-) 

- Original Message -

From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:19:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today 

Notice that the system including a number of reactors working together is 
similar to what I was describing in a posting yesterday. Perhaps that is why 
they decided to publish that information today. 

Dave 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:39:11 AM 

 The q uality of the steam is not that important provided a method to 
 accurately measure the amount of heat it contains is used. A COP of 11.07 is 
 important and represents a significant improvement above the earlier 
 specification of greater than 6. If you are concerned about the accuracy of 
 the measurement then that is a different problem. 


The steam quality is critically important, as it can range between 0% (NO water 
vaporized) and 100% (ALL the water vaporized). 

This is exactly the same configuration as was used for the original 1MW 
acceptance test -- generator, reactors, condensers in a recycling loop. I don't 
THINK this includes a heat exchanger, which (if the thermocouples are connected 
properly) can give an irrefutable measurement. 

The total output is 1.440113 MW --- so reactor 600 is most likely the initial 
on-site customer acceptance test for the new 1MW system 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 10:09:13 AM 

 I was referr ing to the evidence supporting the claimed COP and not the 
 usefulness of the steam itself. Accurate measurement of the heat power is the 
 important issue at hand. Of course the guys calculating the COP must know how 
 much heat the steam contains. That seems obvious and not needing to be 
 stated. 

Still needs to be taken into account. They don't describe the structure of the 
boiler. Since they're only aiming for 100C steam the hotcat heater elements 
are most likely immersed in a tank of water, so they just boil the water and 
don't super-heat the resulting steam. 

In that case it's most like a kettle boiler, which will typically (is this 
situation typical?) generate 95% steam quality. Depending on the application 
they might not even need dry 100C steam. 

In the original test they just had a simple outlet valve to check that no 
liquid water was escaping. They probably had that here, too, though it's not 
described. 

A real-life steam customer will be happy just seeing some steam vented, with no 
liquid water running out of the outlet. 

But it won't satisfy scientists and skeptics. Or the patent office? 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com 
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:24:13 PM 

 The report notes that they ignored the energy needed to heat the steam beyond 
 100C and also underestimated the flow by 10% to be conservative. Does this 
 affect your analysis? 

With my engineering hat on, the result is probably valid. (Assuming the steam 
quality's 95% there's an extra 5% leeway). 

With my scientific/anti-pseudo-skeptic hat : a loophole as big as a barn. They 
probably could have rented a steam-quality meter for $100 for a day to do a 
spot check on vented steam. $1000 with an expert to run it. Or they could have 
installed a steam/water separator in the output pipe and monitored it 
continually. Or sparged the output. Or something. 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

OK ... I re-read the paper more carefully. 

They only recorded data when the steam temperature was above 101C at 
atmospheric pressure, with actual steam temperatures rising from 121.3C to 
139.7C 
So it MUST have been 100% dry, and super-heated -- no need to measure the 
quality. 

(OK : I could quibble a little, that the boiling point depends on the actual 
atmospheric pressure, or at least corrected for altitude.) 

I ran this through my steam calculator. They took water from two tanks, at 
slightly different temperatures --- starting at 21.6C and 22.4C, and ending at 
54.9 and 46.8 so I used the highest value of 54.9 

The time of the test is not given, so I set it to a nominal 1 hour. 

First, using their conservative values -- reducing the amount of water used (to 
2295kg) and not counting the heating of the steam (Quality=1) 

This gives a COP of 11.081 -- which is close to their value. (The energy to 
heat he water to boiling, and then to superheat it is very small compared to 
the evaporation). 

http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=cefzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Conservativeedh=1edm=0eds=0eif=2295eip=140.7ecp=0eox=1eoxr=2et0=22.4ep0=1et1=54.9et2=100er2=1
 

However, their procedure complicates things : they apparently return the water 
straight back to the same tank, so it actually rises from 21.6 to a final value 
of 54.4 and a highest value of 54.9 (and similarly for the second tank). As the 
inlet water temperature rises, so does the steam temperature. 

They use the highest temperature values in their calculations, so they again 
under-estimate the COP. 

To try and estimate the true COP, I divided the time and water flow by 100, and 
then used the start and end temperature values. (In each case I use the highest 
temperature of the two tanks -- I could use a weighted average.), and the full 
volume of water. This still assumes that all the generator power goes into 
heating. 

This gave a COP of 13.2 at the start, and 12.7 at the end 

So I'd say that the actual COP is around 13 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

Good grief! 3 years on, and I've just noticed a bug in my calculator. 

I calculate COP = output/input (AND say so on the output). 

It's actually COP = (input+output)/input 

The values will be even higher than I reported! 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

My new calculations are : 

Nominal 12.08 (1 more than their result) 
Start: 14.2 
End 13.7 

Calculator : 

Nominal 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=defzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Conservativeedh=1edm=0eds=0eif=2295eip=140.7ecp=0eox=1eoxr=2et0=22.4ep0=1et1=54.9et2=100er2=1
 

Start 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=defzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Startedh=0edm=0eds=36eif=25.50eip=140.7ecp=0et3=121ep3=1eoxr=3et0=22.4ep0=1et1=22.4et2=100er2=1
 

End 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/ecatcalc.php?plot=Plotever=defzx0=0efzy0=0efzx9=9efzy9=9esl=1epbr=2enm=Patent+Reactor+600+--++1MW++--+Endedh=0edm=0eds=36eif=25.50eip=140.7ecp=0et3=139.7ep3=1eoxr=3et0=22.4ep0=1et1=54.9et2=100er2=1
 

Re: [Vo]:New Rossi Patent Appln..publishes Today

[Alan Fletcher]

I forgot to subtract the generator power at the start of the run : My VERY new 
calculations are : 

Nominal 12.8 
Start: 15.1 
End 14.6 

Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:49:08 AM 

 David, Rossi is agreeing on JONP that they need to use gas as well. My 
 question is though if they can use gas, why not use a self-feedback system. 

Might be that the adjustment of temperature needs to be controlled quickly ... 
and one full ecat responds too slowly to feed another. We already have a cat 
and mouse but no details at all on what it might be or how it might work. 

It's still very early in the engineering cycle to go to more complicated 
systems. They can make plenty of money from a COP=6 thermal system, even with 
an electric drive. 

Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal

[Alan Fletcher]

Yesterday (probably already posted)


Bob
November 4th, 2014 at 1:20 PM

Dear Andrea Rossi

1. Do you know what is the maximum temperature an operating e-cat can produce?

2. Have you achieved that temperature in an e-cat operation?

3. Are there any other e-cat applications you are presently working on in 
addition to plant for manufacturing and possible aircraft engine use?

Thanks

Bob

Andrea Rossi
November 4th, 2014 at 3:13 PM

Bob:

1- at peak 1,400°C
2- yes
3- presently we are focused on the 1 MW plant; apart from this, we are making 
RD mainly for gas driven E-Cats; obviously I am also studying on the 
reconciliations of the results of the measurements made by the ITP.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

One of our Bobs ?

#1 and #2 are a bit curious --- because the Legano cat reached 1400C, and they 
said they intentionally held it below full power.

The implication is that it's COP=3 at full power, and you only get COP=6 in 
self-sustain mode. (Plus the all-the-nickel-transformed enigma)

#3 relates to this discussion. 

Re: [Vo]:COP of 3 is a problem for electrical - Thermal

[Alan Fletcher]

Neri B.
November 5th, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Dear Andrea,
in TPR 1 we saw 3 tests: in the first the reactor melted, in the others two 
tests the COP was 5.6 and 2.9.
Recently you stated that someone has experienced the cat could become a tiger.
Can you please tell us which is the highest COP you ever achieved in your 
internal test for a reasonable period of time and at what temperature?
Thank you


Andrea Rossi
November 5th, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Neri B.:
When I said the Cat can become a Tiger it was referred ironically to a totally 
different issue…anyway we reached very high COPS, but in very Dangerous 
situations, so it is not proper to talk of them. That was extreme RD
Warm Regards,
A.R.


WaltC
November 5th, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Dear Andrea,
When you spoke to Neri B. of “Dangerous situations”, are we talking:
1) Dangerous- as in “BOOM!”,
2) Dangerous- as in it breaks, stops working and needs to be replaced (but no 
“BOOM!”),
3) or something else?

Thanks, WaltC


Andrea Rossi
November 5th, 2014 at 5:20 PM

Waltc:
…and the right answer is…2!
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Re: [Vo]: New Rossi lab photo has much information

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com 
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 6:49:22 AM 

From http://www.ecat-thenewfire.com/blog/rossi-three-hot-cats-row/ 
The white sphere at the left is a neutron detector. 

Re: [Vo]:JoNP

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 11:43:36 PM 

 do you think it is anyway possible that COP=1 even if 3.6 is uncertain ? 

Reading that IR review paper they have a formula that the calorimeter 
calculates temperature as 

T := e * [internal measured result] 

:= means I left out constants and other variables like area 

(Though I seem to recall from the Optris guide that there were other terms 
involving e ) 

Then (just using Stefan Boltzmann) 

P := e * T^4 - e^5 

I'll go do the math when I have time. 

Re: [Vo]: New Rossi lab photo has much information

[Alan Fletcher]

Jones, you're really going of the wall here. 

The IR literature recently posted here shows that IR calorimetry CAN give 
temperatures with 2% accuracy. But more importantly, once calibrated the method 
is a very quick AND accurate way of looking at differences, which is clearly 
what Rossi is doing here. It may not be scientifically satisfying, but it's 
what engineers do. (Not to mention that Rossi has access to the internal 
thermocouple, so he's now probably more interested in the distribution of heat 
and how to get it out of the tube.) 

It's also clear from the Greenyer video that the hotcats are intended to be 
used as plug-in heater elements for commercial heaters, operating in the 1000C+ 
range. 

Rossi didn't release this picture -- it was taken during an interview by Vessey 
(Vessela Nikolova) for his book - OVER A YEAR AGO. The book has just been 
released -- so the release of the photo now is promo for the book, not for 
Rossi or to mislead the MFMP. 

Since then IH have (apparently) sold a 1MW warm-cat to a commercial customer, 
so it's no surprise that Rossi is currently spending most of his time on that. 
(And he posted just today that he was having trouble with the gas-cat, but that 
he'd thought of a way round it. And I don't think he's given up on electric 
generation either). 


- Original Message -

From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net 
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 9:31:56 AM 


A wealth of information can be gleaned from this … 






More likely - a wealth of disinformation. 



First and foremost –despite the criticism of thermometry in the first and 
second iterations – he seems to persist with a technique which none of his 
critics will find acceptable, if this is not a further charade. There is little 
valid rationale for avoiding flow calorimetry – other than that the results 
would be embarrassing. 



His supporters then argue that he doesn’t care about the critics. He has no 
interest in what others think. 



OK. Then why the hell release anything at all? This photo changes nothing in 
the mind of critics and it can only have one use. The only possible use which I 
can see is to further confuse anyone who might be trying to replicate the 
Lugano report. Rossi may have sent this specifically to Greenyer - in order to 
throw MFMP into further disarray. 



For months Rossi has been saying that his attention has shifted away from the 
HT version and to the so-called megawatt unit which is low temperature. The 
only scenario for this photo release - which makes any sense is that Rossi had 
noticed what MFMP was planning to do with the “dummy” - and thought that they 
were getting too close to the truth, so he wants to lead them astray now - if 
he can. 

Re: [Vo]: New Rossi lab photo has much information

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com 
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 2:12:43 PM 
I think the present method should be used with a thermocouple to confirm the IR 
camera. When this report was first published, I assumed a thermocouple was 
used, because one is shown in the schematic. It is not clear to me now whether 
it was or was not used. That is one of the questions I asked the authors. They 
have not responded. 

The thermocouple in the diagram is Rossi's control thermocouple. 

They say in the paper that they tried to attach a thermocouple, but couldn't 
because of the ridges (spiral?) . 

Re: [Vo]:JoNP

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 2:52:17 AM 

 It seems that for hot fusion ising FLIR camera is quite common 
https://www.fusie-energie.nl/sites/default/files/2013_53004.pdf 

 can someone competent interpret that study? 

No, but I did notice : 



The IR camera is calibrated with a black body and in situ cross checked against 
a multi-wavelength spectroscopic pyrometer (FAR SpectroPyrometer model FMPI) to 
account for the role of reflections inside the vessel and the transmission of 
the optical set up. The pyrometer measures a spectrum from 1000 to 1700 nm, 
with a resolution of 1.56 nm, corrects for the background and detector response 
and compares the corrected intensity with a black body radiator. After data 
analysis the output is the intensity per wavelength and the calculated emission 
spectra and temperature. With this, the emission and/or the transmission of the 
IR camera can be calibrated. In our case the emissivity (temperature and 
wavelength dependant) used for the temperature conversion is found in [7], and 
the transmission determined from the pyrometer is 0.9. This reduces the error 
in the temperature to 2%. 




In other words, it is useful if properly calibrated. For Lugano, calibration at 
a higher temperature and a thermocouple on the tube would have done it. 

Re: [Vo]:JoNP

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 4:17:39 A 

and an interesting reference article 
Infrared thermography for convective heat transfer measurements 
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00348-010-0912-2 

That one's (at least partly) downloadable. 

It emphasizes that you have to take into account the wavelength-dependence of 
emissivity. 
(as in my http://lenr.qumbu.com/blackbody_141027A.php ) 



page 1189: However, since infrared camera detectors capture only a limited band 
of the whole electromagnetic spectrum, while making measurements 
with IR thermography, Planck’s law (2), rather than Stefan–Boltzmann’s law (4), 
has to be applied. 

Re: [Vo]:JoNP

[Alan Fletcher]

I've updated my paper to include a couple of those links (thanks!) and to 
correct an error. 

http://lenr.qumbu.com/blackbody_141102A.php 

Conclusion : WITH proper calibration their results would have been valid. 
Without them I remain in the inconclusive zone. 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

Having looked at the Robert Greenyer video 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyp14fnE1jQ and his observation of the wavy 
nature of a commercial heater and the Lugana hotcat : 

http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat_pics/141030_blackbody_04.png 

Greenyer notes the wavy structure of an electric heating element wound round a 
ceramic tube, and thinks that this explains the irregular structure of the 
Lugano hotcat: it's most likely alumina cement over an inner alumina cylinder. 

I now think this is the most likely construction (sorry for the 300dpi scans) : 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat_pics/hotcat_141030_fig20.png 
and (as usual) the banding could be explained in multiple ways : 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat_pics/hotcat_141030_fig21.png 

Only the shadow hypothesis requires the ceramic to be visually transparent -- 
the other two just could depend on thermal conductivity. 

Updated paper's at : http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_hotcat_oct2014_banding_d.php 

ps : It's now obvious that the hotcat's unusual shape -- particularly the 2013 
versions with the flange -- are intended as plug-in replacements for new or 
existing commercial heating systems, which also operate in the 1300-1400C 
range. 

Huge market. 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:20:52 PM 

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Alan Fletcher  a...@well.com  wrote: 



Basically what happens is that as the temperature changes the peak of the 
blackbody spectrum moves through different parts of the emissivity/wavelength 
curve. 


Are you assuming a standard Boltzmann curve that just shifts its peak according 
to emittance? Is it possible that the frequency and heat-dependant combination 
of emittance, transmissivity and reflection make it so that there is a 
distribution other than a Boltzmann distribution for the alumina shell? 

Eric 

Yes, that's how Planck's formula/integration works. It TRIES to send a 
Boltzmann curve, but this is modulated by the emissivity spectrum. 
As the temperature increases the spectral peak get higher and shifts to shorter 
wavelengths. If the emissivity is higher then the total power will increase, 
otherwise (as in this case) it decreases. 

Per Manara the transmission looks negligible outside the visible range, where 
there's practically no blackbody power anyway up to 1400C. (It moves to the 
visible at much higher temperatures -- 4000 to 6000C). 

Re: [Vo]:Empirical Transmutation Model for LENR

[Alan Fletcher]

Ignore it. It defies the known laws of physics. 

- Original Message -

From: Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:00:41 AM 
Axil Axil at a Vortex-l entry-- Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:13 PM -- 
identified a paper by D.V. F ILIPPOV , L.I. U RUTSKOEV to be found at 
http://uf.narod.ru/public/recom_e05.pdf . It was written in 2004. 
This work provides an empirical model for transmutation of many isotopes with 
only low energy transitions involved. 

Re: [Vo]:Empirical Transmutation Model for LENR

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:40:42 PM 

The authors suggest it allows compliance with conservation of energy, charge in 
integral units, momentum and angular momentum and spin. 
Alan--What do you think it defies? 
Bob 

JOKE! (See Motls, Pomp, Siegel et al) -- I WAS going to add because there is 
no experimental evidence for it 

But the paper was quite well received (10 citations). 

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?espv=2biw=1124bih=939bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.bvm=bv.78597519,d.cGUion=1um=1ie=UTF-8lr=cites=5348392371497276203
 

eg http://fs.gallup.unm.edu/~smarandache/PiP-2008-03.pdf#page=72 (Progress in 
Physics) 

It also points out the the literature equation (1) p + v - n + e+ is WRONG 
and can't be corrected, because the quarks don't add up right. 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 12:57:38 PM 
My analysis of IR calorimetry and Black Body radiation is here : 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/blackbody_141027A.php 

Slightly updated. 

I used my blackbody calculator to derive an emissivity/temperature curve 
similar to Lugano fig 2. 

I swept the temperature form 100 to 1400, with emissivity=1, and deduced the 
average emissivity as Planck/StefanBoltzman using Manara's fig 5 data. 

The result is at 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat_pics/141022_lugano_02_manara.png 

Basically what happens is that as the temperature changes the peak of the 
blackbody spectrum moves through different parts of the emissivity/wavelength 
curve. 

The overall shape of the Lugano emissivity/temperature curve, other than the 
peak at 300C, is very similar to the Manara curve, so it could also be the 
result of a wavelength dependency. 
(Manara also shows a temperature dependency, but I didn't attempt to model that 
-- I just used the 1050K/770C curve). 

This increases my confidence that the calibration at 400C could still be at 
least qualitatively valid at 1400C 

Re: [Vo]:One of Stephan Pomp's, three arch sceptic co authors, appears to have switched sides

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 5:37:41 PM 
Sorry I think it sounds like sarcasm. 
He is still a cat-strangler:) 

Reading the whole thread (google-translated): sarcasm. 

Re: [Vo]:One of Stephan Pomp's, three arch sceptic co authors, appears to have switched sides

[Alan Fletcher]

More relevant : 


Re: Rossi wins and those involved in their bluffing? 


by Peter Ekstrom »Sun October 26, 2014, 13:33 



NyfikneHästen wrote: ... 
Finally, I wonder why not Peter or HG eventually involve themselves practically 
with Rossi and puts the nail in the coffin. Or have you tried? You may not be 
with the club, has not followed all the details 100%. Of course, you may just 
not have the time, but you were supposed to do all the individuals out there 
who hope and think and think and wish a service. A service of humanity service. 
Keep in mind that good. Otherwise, we sit here in 2020 when Rossi came with 
E-cat version 8.0. Or E-dog, to supplement . I remember there was talk in 
2012 about Rossi's scam would run out at year-end 2013 as the last, but here we 
are soon at the turn of 2015 and Rossi is still going strong. Therefore, there 
must be some economic interests that keep him alive. So where does the money 
end (from which they will now?)? Have a nice and fine autumn day everyone! 
Sincerely NyfikneHästen 



Hello and welcome NyfikneHästen! There have been critics of the cat 
(kattstrypare) invited to participate in the tests. The conditions, however, 
have been unacceptable in terms of scientific, freedom and transparency. My 
interpretation of this is that Rossi does not want a critical review because it 
would reveal that the cat is not working! Rossi could probably pull out of this 
for a while and they convinced cat hugs will never change their minds no matter 
what evidence is presented. 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com 
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 12:08:08 PM 

 Axil Axil  janap...@gmail.com  wrote: 
 Nobody really knows how the E-Cat radiates energy. 

 It radiates heat energy according to the Stefan-Boltzmann law, like any other 
 object. The source of the heat is irrelevant. All hot objects radiate heat 
 the same way ... 

That's simply not true. The Stefan-Bolzmann law is an approximation. (The 
single-value emissivity used here is an average over both the wavelength and 
the viewing angle). 

What you see (visually, or with an IR detector -- as explained in the 
Williamson/MFMP interview, and in the Marana paper) is a function of 
reflectance, transmissivity and emissivity, all of which vary by wavelength and 
by temperature -- and Alumina is particularly variable and problematic with 
respect to all of these. 

You need to know the values of all of these, and then integrate the Planck 
Formula over the entire spectrum. IF the emissivity is constant then this 
integral gives the same value as the Stefan-Bolzmann law. If not, it doesn't. 

I've done the calculations : report(s) coming soon. 

 and they all turn the same incandescent color at a given temperature. 

I'm not sure that is true either, though I haven't found a specific refutation. 
It would be true ONLY if their emissivity is constant over the visible 
spectrum. (Marana's example doesn't cover the visible range). 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

My analysis of IR calorimetry and Black Body radiation is here : 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/blackbody_141027A.php 

I was persuaded by McKubre and Docherty not to downgrade my results to failed 
experiment. 

I've also updated my banding paper : 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_hotcat_oct2014_banding_c.php 

Without knowledge of the internal structure, and of the properties of the 
Alumina and the size of the heating wires actually used, NO conclusions at all 
can be reached : inconclusive. 

When I have the time I'll update my conclusions post : My conclusion is still 
... inconclusive. 

[Vo]:Gordon Docherty -- Reflections on Fusion -- e-catworld

[Alan Fletcher]

Reflections on Recent Fusion News — Hot and Cold (Essay by Gordon Docherty)
http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/25/reflections-on-recent-fusion-news-hot-and-cold-essay-by-gordon-docherty/

Personal Reflections on Fusion 2
https://www.scribd.com/doc/244373224/Personal-Reflections-on-Fusion-2

Summarizes hot fusion (and Lockheed) -- then comments on dense plasma fusion 
(or plasma ball fusion) and cold fusion.

Pretty good, though he takes the Lugano report at face value and quotes 
extensively from it. Doesn't seem to mention Rossi by name (I can't search it 
without a download).

ps : Even the existence of the report has been suppressed on wiki!

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Robert Dorr rod...@comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 5:51:57 PM 


If you measured at 2.5u you would be dealing with IR directly emitted from the 
interior of the hot cat because at that wavelength the alumina would be 
somewhat transparent to IR. Measuring at the wavelengths they did the IR 
cameras were only reading the surface temperature because of aluminas's 
opaqueness at wavelengths above approximately 3.5u. Almost everyone gets hung 
up on the visible wavelength pictures that were published in the report. They 
bear almost no relation to what the IR cameras were observing. 

Robert Dorr 

- - - - 

This was one of the sections where they were talking over each other. I 
couldn't really tell if the Williamson guy was warning AGAINST using 2.5u, or 
recommending FOR it!!! 

[Vo]:Rossi Ni Self-Enrichment

[Alan Fletcher]

Stefano Landi:

1) in your conference in Italy you said about a procedure of Ni isotop 
enrichment. Is this in agreement what the results of the Itp report? The amount 
of Ni isotopes before the run do not seem enriched as compared to the natural 
Ni isotopes composition

Rossi: 

1- At those times I could not say other than what I said, due to IP 
constraints. As a matter of fact, the enrichment system is the process made by 
means of the ECat. Nevertheless, the results from the test have gone well 
Beyond what we found before during our internal RD. As I said, now we are 
studying how to reconcile, but during these last days we arrived to understand 
possible explications; much more study is necessary, though.

- - -- 

So maybe the hotcat wasn't running OUT of fuel at 32 days : it had completed 
the Ni isotope conversion (to a greater degree than Rossi expected), and was 
then running at peak efficiency?

This could explain the improvement in efficiency over the first half, when the 
input power could be reduced.

Re: [Vo]:Rossi Ni Self-Enrichment

[Alan Fletcher]

 So maybe the hotcat wasn't running OUT of fuel at 32 days : it had completed 
 the Ni isotope conversion (to a greater degree than Rossi expected), and was 
 then running at peak efficiency?

Remember the melted hotcat in the first Levi report?

I wonder if they lost control because it also converted excessive Ni62, and 
produced more power than the controller expected?

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

Hank Mills transcript : 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz7lTfqkED9WNDVQVEhmUjJ4ek0/view 

But it's still not clear whether they should use 8-14u or 2.5u 

In any case, their spot pyrometer is most likely more accurate. 

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

[Alan Fletcher]

Worth listening to, but they were talking at cross-purposes at times. 

3-way complication between reflectance, emission and transmission. Said that 
wires could cause shadows. (But not, by my analysis from a diffuse source. 
unless the wire is very close to the surface). 

Their system can be used to *determine* the emissivity. 

I *think* they said it would be better to measure Alumina at a lower wavelength 
(2.5u?) and not in the IR band (8-14)? 

So far, I see no reason to budge from my initial evaluation of inconclusive. 
But just one more nail in the coffin and I might downgrade that to failed. 
(But a failed experiment doesn't necessarily mean the ecat doesn't work). 

In short, they were nuts to stick with the hotcat/IR calorimetry, and should 
have asked for a fatcat with water (non-steam) calorimetry. 

ps : I have a black body / emissivity simulator under construction. But will it 
rescue or kill the results? 
- Original Message -

From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com 
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 2:50:05 PM 

MFMP interviews a spokesman for the company Williamson which specializes in 
non-contact temperature measurement. They discuss the problem of measuring the 
temperature of Alumina at higher temperatures. 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3O3bSu6N7vwcDJUWGl1Y0pmTWs/edit?pli=1 
(15 min. audio only must be downloaded to listen) 

Harry 

Re: [Vo]:Mouse in the wires?

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Teslaalset robbiehobbiesh...@gmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 8:13:58 AM 

 Rossi probably discovered earlier that spiral shaped heating elements are 
 crucial to start up the e-cat coincidentally. 
After that discovery he might have developed it further to optimize startup. 
This might be his hook for IP. 

 Piantelli indicated in his patent that other stimilus might work as well 
 though, e.g. laser light, microwaves. 

I could have sworn Rossi said, in the first day or so after the Lugano report 
came out, that this was NOT a mouse-cat e-cat. 
(Google isn't giving me much help) 

Re: [Vo]:Mouse in the wires?

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 8:44:38 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mouse in the wires? 


Curiosone 

October 11th, 2014 at 7:23 AM 

Dr Rossi, 
I do not know if you can answer to this question, if not please spam it. 
Does the Hot Cat like the one tested by the Independent Third Party have two 
separated charges, one for the Mouse and one for the Cat ? 
W.G. 




83. Andrea Rossi 

October 11th, 2014 at 6:21 PM 

Curiosone: 
No, the charge is the same, we have only one charge in that kind of reactor; by 
the way: if the ssm is not adopted, the distinction between Cat and Mouse 
vanishes. 
Warm Regards, 
A.R. 




- - - - 

You found it quicker than I did! I understood that to mean no mouse. 

ssm is self-sustain-mode 

* 
Frank Acland 
October 8th, 2014 at 11:21 AM 


Dear Andrea, 

Congratulations on another report that demonstrates the reality of your 
invention! 

One question: The reactor we see in the report — is this the cat, the mouse, or 
the cat and mouse combined? 

Many thanks, 

Frank Acland 

* 



Andrea Rossi 
October 8th, 2014 at 12:07 PM 


Frank Acland: Thank you. All combined, Warm Regards, A.R. 

Re: [Vo]:new paper- help MFMP, please!

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com 



MFMP Plans E-Cat Replication Attempt Starting in 6 Days, Design Posted 
http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/10/17/mfmp-plan-e-cat-replication-attempt-starting-in-6-days-post-design/
 

https://www.facebook.com/MartinFleischmannMemorialProject/posts/851100978253936
 

I doubt that the MFMP will be able to find the Rossi Sauce, so their failure 
will just be another nail in the ecat coffin. 

What they could usefully do is construct a new dummy as close to Rossi's 
design as possible, and power it not only by the spiral resistors used by 
Rossi, but also by resistors strung through the center, to see what electrical 
power is needed replicate the Lugano results. 

This might also shed some light on the source of the visible banding. 

(And I can't resist noting that Levi et al should have done this). 

[Vo]:Hotcat melting miracle

[Alan Fletcher]

Taking the report at face value, the hotcat displays several of the standard 
LENR miracles .. 

Some evidence of nuclear reactions (though incomplete and a tiny sample: Li, Ni 
-- but no H, He ... examined)
No radiation outside an alumina cylinder (though there may be a steel tube 
inside)
No radiation from the ash
All happening well below hot fusion levels (coulomb barrier etc)

With a surface temperature of 1420C the inside MUST be hotter. But let's stick 
with 1420.

(Non) melting miracle : 

ALL of the components are likely to melt (or at last malfunction)  at this 
temperature

The nickel powder 
The heating wires
The control thermocouple itself!

A reader who didn't post it himself, and may wish to remain anonymous, 
commented in a direct email:

Something that no one seems to have mentioned is that the control thermocouple 
in the reactor is type K (figures 2 and 4 of the Lugano report). This type has 
a calibrated upper temperature limit of ~1250 C (though wikipedia says probes 
are available to 1350 C). Chromel melts at around 1420 C. This seems to make 
type K a poor choice if you expect to operate at temperatures around 1400 C and 
particularly if the reactor may melt down if not properly controlled.

So either the temperature measurement is wrong, or we have another miracle, 
that seems to take place within the entire interior of the hotcat.

Re: [Vo]:Aviation Week and the Lockheed Fusion Reactor

[Alan Fletcher]

On Gibb's Site -- NO! Not Gibbsite !!!

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2834452/data-center/lockheed-martins-cfr-a-hot-fusion-breakthrough-for-power-generation.html

he notes that the disposal problem of 10's of thousands of dead 
reactors is non-trivial.

RE: [Vo]:Draft Ragone Plot FINAL -- OK TO USE

[Alan Fletcher]

My plot's on Mark Gibbs of course (because he commisioned last years).

I like this one in Japanese ---  by Toshiro Sengaku
http://amateur-lenr.blogspot.jp/2014/10/e-cat_13.html

Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.

[Alan Fletcher]

From: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:28:37 AM 

 The wire is not in the reactor, it is embedded in the insulating alumina 
 shell. 

That's a guess. But it might be true. 

I drew (and scanned) some diagrams of a possible structure following the March 
2013 hotcats -- where there was a ceramic insert inside the outer steel tube, 
and round which the heater wire was strung, lengthways. 

But I now think that's not feasible. First, the new tube is too narrow. 
Secondly, it's not perfectly straight, so a ceramic wire-holder wouldn't slide 
in. (In the 2013 hotcat the outer cylinder was steel). 

They might be able to slide in a more flexible holder, eg made of mica, but 
there's no evidence for that. 

Setting aside the concerns that the nickel powder would have melted, it seems 
that the powder was easily poured out, which implies a smooth inner wall. 

So now we have even more guessing. 

Figure 2 was probably taken during the dummy run. The heaters are on, but there 
is no glow through the ceramic, though they are glowing outside the tube. 

Figure 10 from the dummy run shows slight evidence of spiral banding 
(orange-ish) from top-left to bottom-right in segments 1-2-3 4-5-6 and 7-8-9 : 
but this looks to be a coarser spiral than than the distinct bands of fig 12. 
Since we don't know which end is which, we can't even tell if this is in the 
same direction as the visible-light banding. 

Again, I complain that there are no IR pictures during the live run. Since 
there WAS visible banding they should have taken visible and IR pictures from 
the same angle and orientation. 

If the wire IS embedded in the ceramic, there may or may not be a gap around 
it. And the overall energy pathways could give bright-wires or dark-wires, 
depending on the relative balance of heat conduction, radiation in any gaps, 
and transmission through the ceramic. 

I'll put up my diagrams: they apply to the 2013 test, even if the don't in this 
one. 

ps : Overall, I'm sticking at inconclusive. 

Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.

[Alan Fletcher]

fig 2 : http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat2_pics/141011_lugano_fig2.jpg No 
banding, dummy run 
fig10 : http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat2_pics/141011_lugano_fig10.png Possible 
IR banding, dummy run 
fig 12a : http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat2_pics/141011_lugano_fig12a.jpg 
Strong visible banding 


- Original Message -

From: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:08:57 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire. 

From: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:28:37 AM 

 The wire is not in the reactor, it is embedded in the insulating alumina 
 shell. 

That's a guess. But it might be true. 

I drew (and scanned) some diagrams of a possible structure following the March 
2013 hotcats -- where there was a ceramic insert inside the outer steel tube, 
and round which the heater wire was strung, lengthways. 

But I now think that's not feasible. First, the new tube is too narrow. 
Secondly, it's not perfectly straight, so a ceramic wire-holder wouldn't slide 
in. (In the 2013 hotcat the outer cylinder was steel). 

They might be able to slide in a more flexible holder, eg made of mica, but 
there's no evidence for that. 

Setting aside the concerns that the nickel powder would have melted, it seems 
that the powder was easily poured out, which implies a smooth inner wall. 

So now we have even more guessing. 

Figure 2 was probably taken during the dummy run. The heaters are on, but there 
is no glow through the ceramic, though they are glowing outside the tube. 

Figure 10 from the dummy run shows slight evidence of spiral banding 
(orange-ish) from top-left to bottom-right in segments 1-2-3 4-5-6 and 7-8-9 : 
but this looks to be a coarser spiral than than the distinct bands of fig 12. 
Since we don't know which end is which, we can't even tell if this is in the 
same direction as the visible-light banding. 

Again, I complain that there are no IR pictures during the live run. Since 
there WAS visible banding they should have taken visible and IR pictures from 
the same angle and orientation. 

If the wire IS embedded in the ceramic, there may or may not be a gap around 
it. And the overall energy pathways could give bright-wires or dark-wires, 
depending on the relative balance of heat conduction, radiation in any gaps, 
and transmission through the ceramic. 

I'll put up my diagrams: they apply to the 2013 test, even if the don't in this 
one. 

ps : Overall, I'm sticking at inconclusive. 

Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.

[Alan Fletcher]

I wrote up my analysis of the banding : (Draft -- I'll rename it later). 

http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_hotcat_oct2014_141014a.php 

Short answer : we don't even know whether the bright bands line up with the 
wires, or the gaps between them. 

There are multiple explanations, which depend on the structure used to hold the 
wires, and on the properties of everything. 

Insufficient data ! 

Re: [Vo]:temperature of the resistor wire.

[Alan Fletcher]

New version with embedded wires. 

http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_hotcat_oct2014_141014b.php 

Here I've also assumed that the wires are a simple single strand, rather than 
the spiral form used in the earlier tests, and are in good thermal contact with 
the Alumina. 

Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo

[Alan Fletcher]

I now think the general structure is more like this : 
http://lenr.qumbu.com/web_hotcat_pics/hotcat_141014_1_010.png 

See http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_hotcat_oct2014_141014b.php in my other thread 
for details 
- Original Message -

From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:24:07 AM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature 
hot-cat Lugano demo 

I just suggested the following as the construction of the latest hotCat to 
MFMP: 

Here is a section drawing of the end of the new hotCat as I see it ( 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Pc25a4cOM2WXBNRjE2bDVVT1U/view?usp=sharing 
). 

Re: [Vo]:Engineering and materials issues with high temperature hot-cat Lugano demo

[Alan Fletcher]

From: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:08:42 AM 

 Me too, good job. Tube in a tube reminds of the model rockets I used to 
 build. Fin supports between tubes might explain the wider dark band seen as a 
 spiral?. Do you think a lot of the heat might be discharged in a space 
 between tubes and out the ends? Or are the ends completely sealed? 

The fins are too fine to be a source of the bands. And the ends are completely 
sealed, so the temperature and heat-loss will taper off at the ends. 

But your .. and your, and your ... guess on the structure and the banding is as 
good as mine. Very frustrating. 

Re: [Vo]:the true source of energy

[Alan Fletcher]

From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 12:47:05 PM 



 The conclusion that logic forces us to arrive at must be that there is 
 another place where all that over unity heat is coming from. These particles 
 cannot be producing (900 watts) (3.5) = 3150 watts of output power. 



I have always argued that the thermalization may happen away from the 
particles. 

Re: [Vo]:An expert reviewed and approves of this configuration

[Alan Fletcher]

Yes, sorry -- I was referring back to the 2013 test. 

For that we had a picture of the ceramic frame holding the resistor wires, 
which was cast in two (I recall, without looking it up) sections. 

For a small area, we have a solid plate (complicated by fins), and then a 
cog-like structure with the gap towards the outside. 
Presuming that this makes good thermal contact to the outer cylinder we can 
approximate it as a rectangular block with a rectangular hole, with the wire in 
the center. 

The wire itself is mostly in poor contact with the holder, so it supplies heat 
by thermal radiation (or induction, though I think that's less likely). 

There are two pathways from the inner hot zone: by conduction through the solid 
part of the gear, and by radiation through the gap. ( It's probably close to 
thermal equilibrium.) 

Given that Alumina is an insulator, I don't know which wins, but there is 
definitely a possibility of a temperature difference, which may persist. 

I don't have the tools (comsol etc) to model the radiation in and across the 
gap. 

- Original Message -

From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 8:30:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:An expert reviewed and approves of this configuration 

Maybe I misunderstood but when he said the march test, I thought he meant the 
march test of 2013. 

Harry 

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:17 PM, ChemE Stewart  cheme...@gmail.com  wrote: 


Alumina is a top notch insulator and the coil is imbedded in it. More heat must 
be leaving other routes. Where r the fins? I have not studied the photos. 

On Monday, October 13, 2014, H Veeder  hveeder...@gmail.com  wrote: 

blockquote

The banded regions should absorb heat and in the long run reach the same 
temperature as their surroundings. The fact that they persist is a sign of 
something significant...and I don't mean fraud or incompetence. 


blockquote


blockquote


blockquote


AJF: Figure 6 : this is complicated by transmission, which may be happening in 
the visible range. (IF the helical shadows are indeed images or shadows of the 
coiuls. But I still think they represent different conduction zones of a 
ceramic holder, as in the March test). However, this has a broad peak near the 
center of the visible range, so the blue might be enhanced a little. 
​ 





I find it odd the dark bands (a.k.a the shadows) persist. I can understand 
how differences in conduction​ 
​play a role when the reactor first starts but in the long run shouldn't the 
dark bands disappear? 

Harry 

/blockquote


/blockquote



/blockquote

/blockquote

Re: [Vo]:Determining the transmittance . . . of semitransparent materials at elevated temperatures

[Alan Fletcher]

It has moderate transmissivity in the visible range, which is what the 
photograph shows. But it drops to zero by 6 and above, which is what the IR 
camera is measuring. 

So there could be visible shadows / glowing resistors seen through the ceramic, 
but the IR calculations are OK. 

- Original Message -

From: H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com 
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 11:27:44 PM 



He commented: My interpretation of figure 6 is that the tranmissivity of 
alumina goes down to zero. Hence, this shows the arguments about alumina 
translucency are moot. 




​does this imply the dark bands are not cast shadows? 

Harry