Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, Rossi has stated the plant was shipped and installed in the customers US location and that he attended to do the install. AG On 19/01/2012 7:17 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: This is what I said earlier. I don't recall Rossi ever saying that the container was shipped. The seems to have been assumed once Rossi said the customer was happy and the plant was sold.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, The plant has not moved, despite what has been said. The images confirm that. AG On 19/01/2012 6:08 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: Jones Isn't it possible that the US customer's facility is in Italy? If the customer is military, as speculated to be, then it's possible that they are using one of their bases in Italy to monitor and deal with Rossi and the 1MW plant. The US have a base near Vicensa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_Italy) which is only 150Km from Bologna so it's quite possible that Rossi was at the 'customer's facility' the day before the interview. Not saying it's so but just saying we don't know everything.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, Rossi stated the plant did ship to his US customer and he attended to do the install. AG On 19/01/2012 5:45 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: Perhaps the original 1MW plant never shipped to the customer's location as the customer wanted it fixed before shipping, i.e. the leaking gaskets, the control system etc. As I recall Rossi never said the unit was delivered to the customer's premises although I could be wrong on this.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Robert, Gotta admit, from what Rossi has stated, the Jan 12 image may be from Jan 12, despite the stained floor no longer being stained. Note the tubing that connected the water supply to the pumps is seen lying at the left side and parallel to the BBB. It even has the aluminum duck tape on the section ends that can be seen in the Oct 28 image of the feed water supply piping. I now have 3 issues: 1) Either the BBB was never shipped to the customer, despite what Rossi claims. Here I would say there is no way the 28 Oct unit on the floor could be shipped. Not with the water pumps mounted on welded on support shelves and the virtually non supported water piping above the pumps. Add to that the issue of the top mounted reactors. Of course the pump support shelves, the piping and the top mounted reactors could have been removed and secured inside the BBB. As they old and new photos and the angles of the piping are identical, this would suggest they have not been removed and replaced. 2) It was torn down, shipped to the customer, assembled, torn down again, shipped back to Rossi and reassembled exactly as it was before it started the movement process. Rossi has claimed this has not happened. I'm inclined to agree with Rossi on this point. 3) The plant in the 12 Jan images is not capable of operation. It is under construction as evidenced by many non connected wires inside the plant. There are no support equipment to run the plant under load nor is there any evidence of any NI control system other than the original Tan Box on the right front side of the BBB. So where was any of the reported development done with NI, the customer and the Customer's engineer? So I'm left with 2 possibilities: 1) The Jan 12 image was taken before 28 Oct 2011 and everything is sweet. 2) The BBB has never left Rossi's workshop. Some work is happening on the inside but nothing outside. All the 1 MW operational load and circulating water support systems have been removed and the existing control system has been disconnected. Andrea Rossi please explain what is happened. AG On 19/01/2012 4:33 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote: You guys must have missed the post by Patrick Ellul: 1. Italo R. January 18th, 2012 at 2:02 PM Dear Ing. Rossi, I have watched this interview with you in Bologna realized on the 12th of January 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc In it appears a 1 MW container. May I ask you if that container is the same used in the last test with ing. Fioravanti and already sold to your customer? Thank you. Kind regards, Italo R. 2. Andrea Rossi January 18th, 2012 at 6:44 PM Dear Italo R. Yes, it is the same: we are still working on it with National Instruments and with the Customer. It will take another month before it will be ready. Warm Regards, A.R. - the floor strings are a moot point...someone must have mopped
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, It is about the product. Leonardo Corp needs to show me a product that I can sell. That means they need to show QUALITY, certification of the product and certification of the manufacturing plant. Product certification means nothing if the manufacturing facility has not been certified to manufacture the product to ISO 9001/2008 general company quality certification and the specific UL/IEC product certification qualifications. This triple certification process can take a long time, like 18 months or more. What I saw in the recent video and my analysis of the images gives me concerns. Rossi need to address this issue right NOW and not try to ignore the evidence on the table. As in science, evidence is evidence. You can't walk away from / ignore it. Positive or negative. It is what it is. AG On 19/01/2012 10:43 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: AG, will you still do business with AR considering that he lie about shipping something really big whereas it hasn't moved at all.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Wolf, On 30 Oct 2011, Andrea Rossi said the 1 MW plant had been shipped to the customer and he was building the next 1 MW plant in a new container. http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=27#comment-106637 Andrea Rossi October 30th, 2011 at 2:15 PM Dear Luke Mortensen: 1- yes 2- yes 3- yes. gaskets 4- different 5- Miami (Fl), Boston (Ma), Manchester (N.H.) Warm Regards, A.R. Luke Mortensen October 30th, 2011 at 12:54 PM Dear Andrea, 1. Is the 1MW container gone? 2. Have you started building another 1MW in another container? 3. Any improvements you want in version 2? 4. Will the buyer of the next 1MW container be the same customer or a different customer? 5. What city will you be working (hiring) in the US? Best wishes, Luke Mortensen AG On 19/01/2012 10:38 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: AG, Can you give us a link where he said that? I can't find any except for some websites (not directly related to Rossi) which say so. Wolf
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=27#comment-106637 AG On 19/01/2012 11:21 PM, Frank Acland wrote: I haven't been able to find any place where Rossi said that the 1MW plant was taken away by the customer. Nor can I find anywhere where he states that the unit was going to the USA. All he has confirmed publicly, as far as I can gather, is that it was a military entity who made the purchase. Since the Oct 28 demo he says he has worked with Dominico Fioravanti on the electrical generation issue and also on installing new NI instrumentation. I'm guessing all this work was done at the Bologna factory.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, There are other similar dark stains on the floor that did not evaporate. AG On 19/01/2012 10:56 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: That stains on the floor could be water (or another fluid) which evaporated leaving no stain. Admittedly they look dark for water but may be a product of the exposure. So I don't think it's conclusive. On 19/01/12 03:24, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Daniel, Try this image of the non and stained floors. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/shO4Ub6pXlC5p1kWhUIZ89MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink AG On 19/01/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly. Can you enhance the image?
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
The issue is: Rossi says the plant is gone (shipped). Rossi says he is attending the customer's US site to do the install. Rossi say he is working with the customer and NI and is making amazing progress. Rossi says it has not been returned by the customer. A video from 12 Jan shows it is still in the original site and has not moved. Rossi says the pant in the video is the 1st plant and will be ready in 1 month. Go figure. AG On 19/01/2012 10:49 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: AG I agree that the plant was not moved. I was referring to Jones' comment on how could Rossi supposedly be at the customer's facility in the US the afternoon before the interview. If the customer's facility is in Italy then that would not be difficult.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Wolf, I have a VERY good memory. Almost pictorial. I know what I have read and heard. It may take me some time to find it but I will find it. AG On 19/01/2012 11:30 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Thanks for searching and clarifying that. So he lied, plain and simple. Someone should confront him with his earlier statements, although this is probably useless... Wolf
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Andre, Question: Is the container gone? Answer: Yes. Can't be much simpler than that. AG On 19/01/2012 11:31 PM, andre_vor...@blums.nl wrote: English is not my native language, but I think (only) when interpreted very liberally, gone can be interpreted as sold. (like in: going... going... gone). Andre Blum On 01/19/2012 08:56 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Wolf, On 30 Oct 2011, Andrea Rossi said the 1 MW plant had been shipped to the customer and he was building the next 1 MW plant in a new container. http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=27#comment-106637 Andrea Rossi October 30th, 2011 at 2:15 PM Dear Luke Mortensen: 1- yes 2- yes 3- yes. gaskets 4- different 5- Miami (Fl), Boston (Ma), Manchester (N.H.) Warm Regards, A.R. Luke Mortensen October 30th, 2011 at 12:54 PM Dear Andrea, 1. Is the 1MW container gone? 2. Have you started building another 1MW in another container? 3. Any improvements you want in version 2? 4. Will the buyer of the next 1MW container be the same customer or a different customer? 5. What city will you be working (hiring) in the US? Best wishes, Luke Mortensen AG On 19/01/2012 10:38 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: AG, Can you give us a link where he said that? I can't find any except for some websites (not directly related to Rossi) which say so. Wolf
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, Work on it? How? Nothing is there to test it under load. How can you test for leaks with no water circulation system in place and no heat load to generate steam and increase the pressure? I'm just an engineer, so I may be wrong but I don't think so. AG On 19/01/2012 11:38 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: This was my point earlier. Many things can be misunderstood or misinterpreted because of Rossi's use and understanding of English. I deal with a lot of foreign people in English and am used to how they phrase things in English or their understanding of English. It's also possible Rossi was expecting the plant to be shipped when he made that comment after which he and the customer decided to leave the plant where it was and work on it in Bologna.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, Look I still believe the E-Cat is a workable FPE device. BUT it needs a LOT of work by good engineers. I don't see that happening as Rossi appears to be holding the IP VERY close to his chest. This product needs a really good team of experienced development engineers. Not just NI. Thermal heat management, flow dynamics, industrial design, design for manufacture, design for repair (needed for a 30 year life as it will break several times over that time period) and other design, manufacturing and engineering specialists. What we saw in that video was Rossi and one other person working on a Fat E-Cat and a prototype home E-Cat with a home sized heat exchange on wooden boxes / tables in one corner of a room. Sorry but not what I would expect but maybe I'm wrong. Or what we saw was a back yard / garage science project being run by 2 people. Andrea Rossi please stop talking about heating your FACTORY with E-Cat heat and doing videos wearing a thick coat. Mate, trust me, it doesn't look good. I still believe you have something of value. But your PR is killing you and your product. Under promise and over deliver. Remember the 3 Qs. QUALITY of product, QUALITY of expectation delivery, QUALITY of support and service. Deliver those 3 Qs and price is the last issue. AG On 19/01/2012 11:45 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: I agree. It does look as though Rossi is being contradictive in his statements. Maybe we should just ask him directly. I bet ecat.com didn't post that interview now. Look at the can of worms it's opened.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Terry, This is like an experiment. All the data shows the expected result. Then you get a set of data that calls all the other data into question. Do you then: 1) Throw it out, claiming it is just noise? 2) Say WTF and investigate? I'm a #2 kind of guy. But then just maybe that is why I'm an engineer and not a scientists? I like noise as that is where all the interesting stuff lives. AG On 20/01/2012 12:25 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I'm just an engineer, so I may be wrong but I don't think so. Hey, hey, hey . ! T
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, No that is not correct. Rossi clearly said that the unit we saw in the 28 Oct demo had been shipped (it was gone) and he had attended the customers site to install it. He stated he was building a new plant in a new container. AG On 20/01/2012 12:50 AM, Energy Liberator wrote: I believe this is probably the most likely case. On 19/01/12 13:58, Vorl Bek wrote: Maybe the container in the video and picture is a demo, like the ones in car showrooms. The one the customer actually buys is the one from the lot or the one being manufactured that is shipped in a week later.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, Rossi has already stated the BBB in the video is the same unit as in the 28 Oct video. We know it has not moved despite Rossi saying YES to the question WAS IT GONE. AG On 20/01/2012 12:55 AM, Energy Liberator wrote: I still don't think that was spelled out clear enough to ensure an non ambiguous answer. You didn't specifically ask if that was the container that he is working on for the customer with NI. It's possible that the footage is recent, the container was the one from the test and is still there today but is not the container that was shipped / delivered to the customer. Let's see how he replies. It would be nice to clear this up. On 19/01/12 14:19, Andre Blum wrote: FYI, I just queued to following question for moderation on JONP: Dear Mr Rossi, Following some discussion on vortex-l about the jan 12 interview on youtube, where it seems to show the 1 MW container in exactly the same spot as on the 28th of October: (1) Is that recent footage? Is the container still there today? (2) How does that relate to your earlier statement that the container was shipped? ..we were just wondering. Good luck! Andre
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, It is also obvious that there are no E-Cats heating that facility in Italy. You may ask is heating needed in a Florida E-Cat manufacturing plant? There are no coolant circulation systems nor heat exchangers attached to the 12 Jan imaged BBB. How can there be any testing of the BBB in operation? There was a single Fat Cat unit in test mode in the next room, with a prototype home E-Cat on the next table. This sure seems like Rossi's Italian RD centre that he talks of. AG On 20/01/2012 12:52 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: The problem it is that he said THAT container with its contents were sold. Or so, that's what I understood. 2012/1/19 Energy Liberator energylibera...@gmail.com mailto:energylibera...@gmail.com AG If he is working on fixing leaking gaskets then he doesn't need the whole plant working so perhaps they are using the unit on the table for stress testing. Likewise NI may not require the whole plant working to do their work. There is also the possibility that this unit is only a test bed and that the work NI and the other engineers are doing to improve the plant is done at the factory. The more I think about it, it is unlikely that Rossi is building the plants at the location that the interview was filmed and Oct 28 test was held. It just doesn't have the space and facilities from what I can see. If he needs to be building 13 plants he'd want enough space where he can have a number of plants being built in parallel. I also think that he is keeping the location of the manufacturing secret so he definitely not using this location for production. It's obvious that there is not much going on in that workshop.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, Rossi said the 28 Oct BBB was shipped to the customer. We now know it was not shipped nor was the BBB gone as he also claimed. AG On 20/01/2012 12:52 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: The problem it is that he said THAT container with its contents were sold. Or so, that's what I understood.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, Yup. The BBB never moved, was never gone, was never shipped, was never returned, is not currently operational and is not in testing despite what Rossi has claimed. Also that facility is not heated with an E-Cat. Is there another facility that is making fully functional E-Cat, has a production line, has an advanced RD facility and the US customer has one of these units? Maybe. But we have no proof of that. All we need is ONE photograph of another E-Cat on a production. Rossi claims to be making another 13. Why not post a photo of that line? Will that give away trade secrets? Instead what we get is a video of the 28 Oct BBB. Is that all Rossi has to show? If so I have wasted a lot of my and my companies time and money. AG On 20/01/2012 12:47 AM, Energy Liberator wrote: It's obvious that there is not much going on in that workshop.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
EL, My curse is I remember just about everything I see and hear. Sometimes that ability has saved my a$$. Rossi has recently stated the E-Cat facilities and the homes of his employees are heated with E-Cats. AG On 20/01/2012 1:27 AM, Energy Liberator wrote: AG, Not that it changes anything, but why do you expect the facility to be heated by the e-cat? Rossi said that the facility that he was heating with the e-cat was sold to raise funds to take this project further. What is clear is that we just don't know what is going on. I hope Rossi clears this up otherwise it's going to throw a bad light over him and his work. On 19/01/12 14:46, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Daniel, It is also obvious that there are no E-Cats heating that facility in Italy. You may ask is heating needed in a Florida E-Cat manufacturing plant? There are no coolant circulation systems nor heat exchangers attached to the 12 Jan imaged BBB. How can there be any testing of the BBB in operation? There was a single Fat Cat unit in test mode in the next room, with a prototype home E-Cat on the next table. This sure seems like Rossi's Italian RD centre that he talks of. AG
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, I believe the data I have seen. There is a real product. It works. As an engineer, I believe there is still a LOT of engineer time, money and effort needed to make this a reliable and certifiable product, produced in a ISO 9001/2008 and product certified manufacturing facility that meets customer expectations in terms of reliability, repairability, build quality and performance. Customers today expect, buy it, unpack it, install it, forget it. If the home E-Cat can't deliver on ALL of those simple requirements, it will be a disaster. It is time for Rossi to stop making wish full statements and to start delivering independent black box tests. I can arrange to make that happen as I'm sure many others can do. AG On 20/01/2012 1:22 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: So, just tell me, at least the 1MW models is a fake story? Not talking about the technology, just specifically about the 1MW unit. Because, if that is a fake, it's hard to believe in any other 1MW since these was a kind of fundamental prototype.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jones, The BBB was not shipped. Rossi's statement that it was shipped to the customer was not correct. Your statement that it was returned by the customer is also not correct. Jones please stop making up false and misleading statement that either you are making up or your source is making up. AG On 20/01/2012 1:43 AM, Jones Beene wrote: Here is the scenario that best fits all the facts: (1) the container was shipped to a customer in the USA (2) the container wasn't returned to Bologna, per se. (3) the footage in the 12 Jan YT video was older footage (4) the container did not work to the customer's specifications (5) the container was shipped to National Instruments facility for upgrading the controls (note: this is not exactly a return in the AR 'spin') (6) Rossi was in attendance at NI to replace the gaskets and disable the self-destruct mechanism (7) He then caught a red-eye flight back to Bologna that same day and did the interview the following day. That is all consistent - but it still highlights the point that the device was shipped prematurely in October, did not meet customer specifications, and suffers from quiescence - which has been the main point of contention all along (and the main point of the original rumor). Has this systemic problem of quiescence been solved? If Rossi, via NI, has solved the problem - then hat's off to Rossi and to NI. Enough observers are now aware of what is going on in this soap opera, that the interested public should know if the problem has been solved or not - and that should answer the technical question of what is the cause of quiescence?. To me, it is indeed looking like QM entanglement is the best explanation for both the high level of operation, and for the quiescence, and that the RF somehow can restore this precondition. It is remarkably similar to electron tunneling which is at the basis of the computer you are using now, in the sense that low-probability QM reactions have been made thousands of times more probable - due to structuring of the host material. The new controls may simply adapt the time when each of the individual cells is operational. For instance, if there are 50 cells and each can work for 12 hours-on but need 6 hours of RF irradiation to regenerate, then this is not hard to do - so long as the net output (faceplate) is reduced accordingly. That would explain why there has been a downward revision in the pricing. AR may have realized that the original price was fair for 1 MW, but this same unit is now going to be called a 500-650 kW unit at a lower price. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Terry, Yup. Too right. We design / make the stuff that distances us from the cave. Everything else is just support infrastructure. Engineers rule. We built this world. If you don't think so, burn you house, all your possessions / assets into ash and take a drug to wipe your memory. Then walk naked, with no tools or technology or memory of technology / tools into the jungle and see how long you last. AG On 20/01/2012 12:42 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I like noise as that is where all the interesting stuff lives. Just don't be demeaning engineers. Just an engineer . . really! We are Yaldabaoth! :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jed, Please don't try to rewrite history as other will now tear this fabricated story apart. The internet has a very good memory and Rossi has enemies. Rossi said he was attending the US customer's site, to assist with the install and commissioning. As we now know, that never happened as the plant never shipped. Was this also a translation problem? The only way for Rossi to save this is to allow independent testing, to at least verify the basic Oct 6 E-Cat data. AG On 20/01/2012 2:09 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Rossi wrote: Of course there has been a misunderstanding due to my bad translation. The 1 MW plant has been accepted and sold ( hence gone) but it remained in our factory of Bologna for fixings and for National Instruments improvements of the control systems. It is actually plausible that he meant that. His English is fluent yet poor, and he often confuses the issue. Poor AR seems upset with Rossi. AR: You can't say we didn't warn you! Read my message Rossi often says things he does not mean. Ponder it. You wrote: It is time for Rossi to stop making wish full statements and to start delivering independent black box tests. I can arrange to make that happen as I'm sure many others can do. He does not want to do that. I and many others have been trying to get him to do that for two years. He adamantly absolutely refuses. He will NEVER do that. I assume this is because he has no patent. It is also because he thrives on controversy. He loves confusing and outwitting people, although it often happens that he has not outwitted them; he only imagines he has. He has been playing mind games with you. He can be infuriating. In Japanese culture there was a certain amount of slipperiness to the truth. People often tell lies for social reasons, for what they call the tatemae or facade. No one expects to be believed. It is a little a Kabuki performance. What Rossi is doing resembles an Italian opera performance. Take it as such. Applaud the performance and ignore the content. If you don't believe him in the first place you will not be upset. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Terry, DFG has shown NOTHING. When they do their first public demo, like Rossi has done a dozen times, and not post some report from a private lab somewhere, I'll start to look at their claims. At the moment they want 30 million Euro up front to make a max 300k Hyperions a year. Not from this little black duck. AG On 20/01/2012 2:15 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: All we need is ONE photograph of another E-Cat on a production. He has to solve the eCat-napping problem before he can proceed. It might require another geometry change. Pity he can't hire those scientists from DGT. T
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jones, I have my sources. Horses mouth sort of sources. 100% accurate. AG On 20/01/2012 2:28 AM, Jones Beene wrote: AG: How do you know it was not shipped? -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Jones, The BBB was not shipped.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi often says things he does not mean
Gotta like this guy. Go Terry Go. AG On 20/01/2012 2:25 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Chemical Engineercheme...@gmail.com wrote: If that is all I had to do to become a licensed engineer or other professional, then I would also be a doctor and a professional athlete since I read sports illustrated and medical journals. Little more is required to earn a Nobel Peace Prize. T
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jones, WTF? You think I'm a happy camper? My board will hang me out to dry, after kicking my ass so much my nose bleeds. That said I still believe the E-Cat data I have seen. It works. It needs work before it can be sold in a litigious world. Simple as that. AG On 20/01/2012 2:34 AM, Jones Beene wrote: OK - so Rossi, having been caught in several mistranslations is now saying that that the BBB never left Bologna ... and the fanboys are happy once again? What a crock ... From: Frank Acland I emailed Andrea Rossi this morning about this issue and received the following reply: Of course there has been a misunderstanding due to my bad translation. The 1 MW plant has been accepted and sold ( hence gone) but it remained in our factory of Bologna for fixings and for National Instruments improvements of the control systems. Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, At the moment Rossi's opponents will clean up the floor with what he has said. The only thing that will save Rossi and the E-Cat is to say Company XYZ will be doing a 1 week public trial and test of the latest E-Cat module. All the data, testing equipment and test protocols will be publicly available. Additionally independent calorimetry experts will access the test setup, test equipment and test protocols meets best current world practice. Then we can move forward from a firm base. Anything else is quicksand. AG On 20/01/2012 2:41 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: I am confused about you attitude. Why do you want independent tests if the thing is real, at least for you?
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jed, This is more than chaos. He has buried himself. How can anybody believe a word of what he says anymore? He did not ship the plant. The plant is not in test by anybody. There is no NI control system hooked to that plant. The plant is not operational. There is no circulation system or heat exchanger load. Is there really a customer who will paid $2 million and are OK to have the plant still not delivered or working or hooked to a test system? Is there really a US factory? Is there really a order for 12 more E-Cat plants? Is there really another 1 MW customer? Is there really a 10 kW home E-Cat that will retail for $500 and can be refilled for $10 by a home owner in the winter of 2012? Every statement Rossi has made is now in question. If he doesn't do a public test, REAL SOON, he and the E-Cat are dead. AG On 20/01/2012 2:51 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Please don't try to rewrite history as other will now tear this fabricated story apart. He has fabricated dozens of stories! You can't rewrite history with Rossi because no one ever knows what is true in the first place. The internet has a very good memory and Rossi has enemies. Yes. That is his own fault. Rossi said he was attending the US customer's site, to assist with the install and commissioning. As we now know, that never happened as the plant never shipped. Was this also a translation problem? No, that was just Rossi being Rossi, and shooting his mouth off. I learned years ago to ignore that kind of thing. The only way for Rossi to save this is to allow independent testing, to at least verify the basic Oct 6 E-Cat data. That he will never do. As McKubre says, he wants chaos. He wants people to think he has nothing. That is his business strategy. It has been all along. He thrives on controversy. He stirs it up deliberately. In many ways, he is not a nice person. Deal with it. As I have often said, I would not recommend doing business with him. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jones, What is crap was the statement you made about the plant being returned by the customer. Just made it up did you? Every part of that statement is now seen to be imaginary. The only nonsense is coming from you. AG On 20/01/2012 2:49 AM, Jones Beene wrote: This is absolutely hilarious. ROTFL This Aussie guy whose real name he refuses to divulge - has been flooding this forum with BS crap from Rossi for months. Now he suddenly has an inside line to the horse's mouth and wants everyone to forget the disinformation he has been spreading in the past. AG: get a life - and please - find a new forum to spout your nonsense. We do not need it here. Jones -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Jones, The BBB was not shipped. Rossi's statement that it was shipped to the customer was not correct. Your statement that it was returned by the customer is also not correct. Jones please stop making up false and misleading statement that either you are making up or your source is making up. AG
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Peter, Good engineers are builders. I get more grease under my nails, bruises and burns than my maintenance guys do. Good engineers lead by example and lead from the front. Sure I sometimes use my gut feelings but that feeling has been through a tough learning curve. I trust it as do others and it is almost never wrong. AG On 20/01/2012 2:49 AM, Peter B wrote: AG I disagree.Builders are the Kings Builders \Carpenters have been building the houses for 1000s of years , the tables , the chairs , the boats Noah was a Builder , JC was a builder Engineers have really only been around 300 years or less The engineers I know just push buttons on a calculator , look up a book and say This works, I know it lol About time you guys had a bit of fun Poor Old Rossi busting his buns , while others theorise wether hes a cheat Big Picture it really doesnt matter The word where I am is , that Rossi , DFK , Mills , Pinatli, FP reactions are real The only problem it not easy to replicate or control Has anyone here attempted to load Ni , Fe , Ca and Cu and heat it up Pete (The Mad QLD Builder) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:13:58 +1030 From: aussieguy.e...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com Terry, Yup. Too right. We design / make the stuff that distances us from the cave. Everything else is just support infrastructure. Engineers rule. We built this world. If you don't think so, burn you house, all your possessions / assets into ash and take a drug to wipe your memory. Then walk naked, with no tools or technology or memory of technology / tools into the jungle and see how long you last. AG On 20/01/2012 12:42 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: I like noise as that is where all the interesting stuff lives. Just don't be demeaning engineers. Just an engineer . . really! We are Yaldabaoth! :-) T
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Steven, It is almost 4am here. Time for me to chill out and get some sleep. AG On 20/01/2012 3:10 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: From AG: Jed, This is more than chaos. He has buried himself. How can anybody believe a word of what he says anymore? He did not ship the plant. The plant is not in test by anybody. There is no NI control system hooked to that plant. The plant is not operational. There is no circulation system or heat exchanger load. Is there really a customer who will paid $2 million and are OK to have the plant still not delivered or working or hooked to a test system? Is there really a US factory? Is there really a order for 12 more E-Cat plants? Is there really another 1 MW customer? Is there really a 10 kW home E-Cat that will retail for $500 and can be refilled for $10 by a home owner in the winter of 2012? Every statement Rossi has made is now in question. If he doesn't do a public test, REAL SOON, he and the E-Cat are dead. There is a psychological term for what is happening here. It's called catastrophysizing. See What is Catastrophizing?: http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/what-is-catastrophizing/ Chill out. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Steven, Didn't sleep much last night. Went for a morning walk along the beach with my dog and watched the sun come up. Just had a coffee with our chairman who lives not that far from me. I'm taking 2 weeks leave to get my head together. The company will not be moving forward with any of my LENR plans as I have not be able to produce a working device. Good news is I still have a job. AG On 20/01/2012 3:10 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: Chill out. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced
Which make it even more interesting. AG On 18/01/2012 11:38 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: That to me looks like it was from Jan 13 2009, not a few days ago. On 18/01/12 13:05, Paul Calvo wrote: *what do you make of this statement by Joe Zawodny / NASA a few days ago?* * * http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2009/01/13/capture-the-moment/
Re: [Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced
The box may contain a primary coolant circulating pump that is speed controlled by the electronics as part of the regulation of the energy generation process. AG On 18/01/2012 11:48 PM, Energy Liberator wrote: It's remarkable how quick things change with this. In a previous post on JONP a few days ago, Rossi specified a size of 40x40x40, now it's significantly smaller. It's great that he can now provide hot water too as that increases the appeal even further allowing for complete replacement of conventional gas / oil boilers in the home. I'm not familiar with how UL certification works but wouldn't these changes, especially such a size change, affect the certification process? I'm assuming the Rossi is only getting certification for the core reactor unit and everything else will be 'bolt on' afterwards.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi selling Licenses?
Terry, I find it difficult to believe these guys would not be able to get Rossi on a Skype connection, especially as they had Dick Smith's $200k riding on the call. I have no association with this group. AG On 19/01/2012 12:15 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: I feel as though I'm watching a late night B-grade movie. Incredible. T
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
I have done a blink comparison. The 2 images were not taken from exactly the same spot. I have tried to apply corrections. https://picasaweb.google.com/100758632386227249211/January192012?authuser=0feat=directlink Apparently it is the same E-Cat BBB as from 28 Oct 2011. Look at the orientation of the white labels on the 3 red bottles. They are identical as are the angles of the pipes connecting them to the Fat E-Cat modules. It is difficult to believe the Red bottles would have been screwed on and fixed to their receptors at exactly the same rotation angle, so the white labels are in exactly the same orientation in the 2 images. Likewise for the vertical pipes. They are in the same relative alignment and angle to each other on 12 Jan 2012 and 28 Oct 2011. From those video based images I have assumed the 28 Oct 2011 BBB and the 12 Jan 2012 BBB is the same BBB. The position appears to be virtually the same judging from the front edge of the left forward fork lift lifting hole versus the painted to unpainted floor line where it crosses the bottom of the BBB and from the alignment of the left rear upper corner of the BBB versus the frame work on the upper wall of the building. If anything the Jan BBB may be slightly closer to the door. There has been work done inside the unit. AG On 19/01/2012 5:17 AM, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, Have a look at this interesting Youtube video by ecat.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkfAjqA4pc Apparently it's been filmed on January 12th. It shows that: - Rossi is currently in Bologna - Rossi's test site appears to be cold - The 1 MW E-Cat container shown during the last public demo is in Bologna too - There appears to be a new control box. Have I missed anything else? Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, So too do I care about these images! What we don't really know is if the Jan 12 2012 video is really from Jan 12 2012 or not. In the Oct 28 image there are a lot of stains on the floor in front of the E-Cat. In the Jan 12 images, these stains are missing. I do note there are other stains on the floor that are in both images. I would expect that as time passes, the floor will accumulate more and more stains. Less stains = earlier photo, more stains = later photo AG On 19/01/2012 10:34 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote: I really really care about it! :) 2012/1/18 Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com mailto:a...@well.com At 03:18 PM 1/18/2012, Wolf Fischer wrote: I did some further analysis of the picture and I am now pretty sure that the Ecat has either NOT been moved or it has been put back to exactly the same position. I have reuploaded the picture in the following link: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-__images/696/ecatcollage.png/ http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/ecatcollage.png/ The important stuff is in the pictures in row 3 (i drew a red circle around the additional black lines and the crossings which I think are important; At the back of the ecat I only inserted the vertical black line, the crossing horizontal black line is from the window / wall / whatever). Both vertically as well as horizontally this seems to be the same position (give or take a few centimeters because of the picture resolution as well as the slightly different angle / position of the camera man). Wolf I photoshopped the heck out of it (Copying Line 3 first image over second image, and then warping the first image to match the second). Based on the 3 red cylinders and the pipes connecting to them, I'd say that it's the exact same Big Blue Box. The pipes seem to have exactly the same bends. And it doesn't seem to have moved (or if so, not by more than a few inches). If anyone really, really cares about it, I'll make an animated GIF to fade from one image to the other. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jones, All that can be said at the present point in time is the images are of the same BBB. Until we can determine the date of the Jan 12 video interview's images of the BBB, any assumptions are just guess work. Differential staining on the floor in front of the E-Cat plant is suggestive of the Jan 12 image actually being taken before the 28 Oct image. AG On 19/01/2012 11:41 AM, Jones Beene wrote: Daniel, You seem to be implying that you are content that Rossi could have lied about there being a mystery customer, when there was none; instead of that he lied about the customer sending it back? Jones
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Jones, The only thing we do know for sure about that video is the date is was posted onto the internet. I do note in the first 10 seconds of the video you can see inside what may be a prototype of the home E-Cat, with a home sized parallel plate heat exchanger in the background. This is new and would suggest that at least the first part of the video was filmed post 28 Oct 2011. To me the image of the Jan 12 plant looks to be earlier than the 28 Oct images from several details such as the floor stains, the work that is being done inside the BBB (lot of wires are not attached) and the Brown Box controller is not connected to the BBB. Would think, being an engineer, if the plant had been returned, the first thing to do would be to attach the controller and run it up to recheck which modules are leaking. I suggest the 12 Jan images of the BBB are pre the 28 Oct test and we really can't date when the interview was done. AG On 19/01/2012 12:23 PM, Jones Beene wrote: AG, I agree. However, even if the maker of the Jan 12 vid incorporated a clip of the BBB from before it was shipped, we still have to deal with AR's statement that he was replacing gaskets on that same unit at this time. The location is not known but if it is somewhere besides Bologna, then that is the problem ... since the statement came hours before the interview - when we know he was in Bologna. Was he at the customer's facility the afternoon before, and then caught a quick flight back, to do the interview? That would explain it, but methinks the strings of rationalization that make this episode not seem to be as suspicious as it is - are getting longer by the hour. Again, let me say that my problem is NOT with the technology, which is valid, but with the man. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, Look at the stains on the floor in front of the opened doors of the BBB on 28 Oct and in the supposed 12 Jan video. No stains in the 12 Jan image and stains in the 28 Oct video. Also the 12 Jan BBB video is of a E-Cat in construction (lots of things inside not connected) and in the Oct 28 video of a completed plant. This suggests the 12 Jan 2012 video of the BBB was taken before 28 Oct 2011. However the images of the new home E-Cat prototype and the home sized parallel plate heat exchanger are new. AG On 19/01/2012 1:05 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: But it is odd that he shows right after that Australian PR failure, with the missing conference, a video with the same container and same attachments without any apparent modification. It's like he's saying that there were no sale, no customer. It is like calling himself a scamer!
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, See what I can do. Will play with Gamma and Contrast. Did you look at MY blinker? It is very obvious. https://picasaweb.google.com/100758632386227249211/January192012?authuser=0feat=directlink You need to click on the LEFT image in the album to see the animated GIF image changing every 0.5 second. AG On 19/01/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly. Can you enhance the image?
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, Try this image of the non and stained floors. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/shO4Ub6pXlC5p1kWhUIZ89MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink AG On 19/01/2012 1:26 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: I cannot see colors well, I have some color blindness, deuteranomaly. Can you enhance the image?
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Daniel, Sure but other floor stains in the same area have not been removed / cleaned up. Note the dirty area is not just in front of the BBB. It continues along the edge of the painted / non painted edge in front of the BBB. There are no signs of scratched on the painted floor where various pieces of heavy equipment sat as well. I have looked at / studied every image of the 28 Oct E-Cat plant I could find. I find the Jan 12 images look / feel earlier than 28 Oct but I could be wrong. AG On 19/01/2012 1:56 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: Can't those stains be cleaned?
[Vo]:More home E-Cat data announced
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=14#comment-171562 * Andrea Rossi January 17th, 2012 at 4:41 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=14#comment-171562 Dear Mark Szlazak: It will be cm 30 x 30 x 12 circa. Not able to make electricity yet. Able to make heat and sanitary water ( this is a new of today: resolved also this problem). Warm Regards, A.R. http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171368 * Andrea Rossi January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171368 Dear Christian Scholl: The principle is this, yes, but it will be simplyfied. Warm Regards, A.R. * Christian SCHOLL http://www.cem-expert.fr/index.cfm January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=17#comment-171038 Dear Andrea Rossi, Domestic E-Cat will be delivered with differents heat exchanger: boiler for hot water, heat exchanger for hot air, full cupper electrode to replace steatite water heater ? Best regards, C.SCHOLL
[Vo]:New Energy Times News Service - LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index
Wonder if Krivit sent the email to Rossi, Focardi, Celani, Levi and Piantelli? AG Jan. 15, 2012 * *LENR and Cold Fusion Theory Index * *I continue to receive mixed responses about the media attention I give to the Widom-Larsen theory of LENRs. Regardless, my confidence in that theory has not changed. However, I have decided that it is both useful as well as fair to provide an opportunity to help present other LENR theories on the /New Energy Times/ Web site. Therefore, I have built portal pages for the following theories: Bazhutov-Vereshkov Theory Chubb (Scott) Theory Chubb (Talbot) Theory De Ninno Theory Fisher Theory Gareev Theory Hagelstein Theory Hora-Miley Theory Kim-Zubarev Theory Kirkinskii-Novikov Theory Kozima Theory Li Theory Sinha-Meulenberg Theory Szpak Theory Takahashi Theory You will find a link to each of these pages through the index page which is listed on the left-hand menu of the /New Energy Times /Web site under *LENR Theory Index*. If I am missing a theory in this index, please let me know. Note that I have omitted Randall Mills' theory because he does not associate his work with LENR. I have notified (where possible) the authors of these theories. I have sent them e-mails and requested them to contribute with additional information so I may better inform the public about their theories. But anyone can help out. Through the /New Energy Times /News Service, I am sending this message to nearly every LENR researcher in the world, to all the members of the CMNS e-mail list, as well as thousands of LENR fans worldwide. Please have a look at each of the sections for each of theories. If you can help provide factual and useful information about any of these theories, please send it to me. Please note, the purpose of these pages are to help promote the work of each theorist. The pages are not to be used to criticize the work of competing theorists. Thank you for your help. Steven B. Krivit Senior Editor, /New Energy Times / Editor-In-Chief, Wiley Nuclear Energy Encyclopedia 369-B Third Street | Suite 556 | San Rafael, California | USA 94901 T 310.470.8189 | M 310.721.5919 | F 213.226.4274 www.newenergytimes.com http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=7610273msgid=577106act=URR0c=229442destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newenergytimes.com%2F --- /Original reporting on leading-edge energy research and technologies /
[Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 * Andrea Rossi January 16th, 2012 at 7:09 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=42#comment-170607 Dear Roger: Another “rumorist” has written somewhere that our Customer has given us back the 1 MW E-Cat: this is another stupidity, totally false. Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. But not for long enough. So what? IT WORKED. What part of IT WORKED don't you understand? And now your saying DFG will eat the lunch Rossi prepared and you think they are OK in do this and you are OK to publish statements that you can't back up? Apparently both you and DFG are damaged goods that can't be trusted. Thanks for making that very clear to me. You just saved me a trip to Greece. Go Rossi GO. AG On 17/01/2012 3:03 AM, Jones Beene wrote: DGT is preparing to eat Rossi's lunch... as they say. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Rossi comments on the It was sent back statement
Mary, My statement was directed to Beene and not you. It was based on that of Beene, who claimed Rossi's reactor WORKED during the DFG tests but not for the required 48 hours. My statement to you is: So was Beene lying about the IT WORKED statement? If so then he may also be lying about the IT WAS RETURNED statement? As Jed has, as I have, as others here have, information that I/we trust that the E-Cat does work as claimed. As you know I have disclosed a commercial interest in bringing FPE devices to market, so please don't expect me to disclose confidential information on this forum. Mary, who ever you really are, you are wrong about Rossi and his E-Cat. Soon you and all the other deniers will know you are wrong. AG On 17/01/2012 8:56 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Jones, So you are OK with DFG taking Rossi's invention and in effect stealing it from him? You do admit it worked. How can we possibly know that anything from Defkalion ever worked? They've never shown any testing in public, they have not allowed private results to come out (not that they would be trustworthy anyway) and they have never allowed independent tests. All we have is their claims. It defies my imagination that people believe them after so much time has passed and they have missed so many obvious and easy opportunities to prove their claims.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Wolf, Heard you got a question into the program. Well down. I think Rossi is dead right on the pricing structure. This way he will make it very difficult for another FPE device to get into HIS market. If he sells at a higher price then there is enough fat to allow another competitor to recover their costs. Rossi has the high ground and will ensure no one will overtake his position. By the time others get their hands on his product and reverse engineering them, he will have recovered ALL his costs and can drop his price even further, while still making a very nice profit. If I was a Rossi shareholder I would be very pleased with his approach. He plays to be the last and only man standing. On the Energy Stick I see this as a dual screw in action, which initially seals the stick and then opens it to the internal H2 supply that is probably in hydride storage. It would be VERY low cost to manufacture. I really doubt there is a profit in recycling them other than in the publicity that they are recycled. As for the RFG, yes apparently it is used to control the reaction once the external heater is switched off. As Rossi says, it enables the Coulomb force to work with the reaction as in Martial Arts where you use the opponents strength against him. Here we see a differing between Rossi and DFG. DFG use multiple small reactors (no RFG) that they apparently individually switch off and on to control output, while Rossi uses his RFG to control the output from a single reactor while it is running in self sustain mode. The RFG system seemed to work well during the earlier E-Cat self sustain mode tests but there was not a dynamically varying load being applied, so how capable it is in handling time varying loads is still to be seen. A simple way to do domestic hot water is to put a heat exchanger into the home hot water storage tank and then have a control system to regulate the amount of hot heat exchanger fluid that flows into the hot water storage tank's heat exchanger. Give me a 10 kW home E-Cat and I'll have it producing hot air into the home ducted system and hot Sanitary water as Rossi calls it in short order. Not many Aussie homes with hot water radiators, so we don't need that option here. Well maybe in Melbourne and Tasmania they will need it. Ha Ha cold southerners. AG On 1/15/2012 9:33 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: AG, Thanks for this much more detailed summary! I was being too tired when I wrote mine... Should have waited over night. Some thoughts of mine on the interview and Rossis statements: The thing which interests me (also in the context of the probable quiescence problem as mentioned by Jones Beene) is the reactor control via regulation of operational heat point. How could he do this? He needs a way of a) increasing as well as b) decreasing the reactor temperature. Increasing is simple: Power the heat resistance module. But as soon as the reaction starts, how can he cool it down? From what I know about the reactor, there is the possibility of regulating the amount and pressure of H. However (as this seems to be a cartridge) there must be some way of releasing and again storing the H. What kind of cheap, reliable and fast mechanic would allow to add H to the reactor and, if the heat is too high, release some of the H (which, I think, must be again stored somewhere)? Or could he just deliver the cartridge with so much H that it will be enough in any case for a 6 month operation? Or perhaps is this the mysterious RF generator which helps regulating the reaction? As far as I remember Defkalion, they state that the Hyperions can not be regulated and they are also missing a RF generator. Rossi states in the interview (when asked about the RF generator) that the forces that basically should fight against us, and I mean the coulomb force, are used to help us. He after that again states that what theoretically should be to their disadvantages they have turned to their advantages. I (as an amateur) could interpret this as in order to decrease high temperatures we 'increase' the coulomb force (and therefore lowering the reaction) using the RF generator... ? But this is wild speculation from my side... Another point that I am currently thinking about is Rossis older statement regarding the fact that first generation Ecats should be upgradeable in order to produce electric heat. From the picture that I currently get, this is either a) an old statement and not valid anymore or b) upgrade the control software and buy a new cartridge which is capable of delivering enough heat The Energy Sticks or Cartridges are perhaps not sold (in the sense that the buyer owns the thing) but leased to the customer (because of the low price and the recycling back at the factory). Further, if I was an investor in Rossi, I would scream out loud because of the low prices which he is promoting... 500$, if he is first on the market with this revolutionary
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Wolf, With a reactor temp around 600 deg C and the coolant at 120 deg C there is a wide operational margin. As the coolant temp get to 450 deg C it is only 150 deg C below the reactor temp. A lot less fat to play with. I would speculate there is a much higher chance of a runaway and Ni powder meltdown at 450 deg C. Can't wait to get my hands on a unit and study the dynamics of the energy release / control system even if the home E-Cat systems can't generate steam with a high enough temperature to generate electricity. Never did like the Carnot cycle. Physics is so.limiting. I do wonder what would happen if I put 2 or more of the home units in series? AG On 1/15/2012 9:42 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Just another point from the interview: Rossi has admitted that last year they had peaks even when the reactor should just produce about 120C°. This problem seems to have been resolved (because of NI), so no more peaks. Besides that NI is especially helping in the problem of getting the reactor up to 400C° in order to produce electricity. Somehow the customer of the first 1MW plant is helping in solving those problems, as it is not as trivial as just putting the Ecats in serial in order to reach higher temperatures.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Yamali, 450 deg C E-Cats 1 MW industrial plants are not 60 deg C 10 kW home E-Cats. You can use just about any coolant at 60 deg C. At 450 deg C you are talking about molten salts. Whole different set of engineering challenges. The home E-Cat is probably just a squashed version of the copper Door Knob earlier reactor, cleaned up a bit. Nothing there. Simple as it can get. Probably straight through flow path with some internal fins for better heat transfer. Easy Peazie. Most will run at around 60 deg C. No steam or high pressure. Plastic pipe and click fittings stuff. Well ok a bit more but not much. Most new Aussie HW systems are plumbed in plastic today. However dealing with 450 deg C coolant is not simple nor easy. High pressures and high temperatures. Very different beast that can bite hard if something breaks or goes wrong. AG On 1/15/2012 10:58 PM, Yamali Yamali wrote: This is like asking anyone would buy a Data General Supernova minicomputer in 1979, knowing that in a few years personal computers would become available with far better price/performance ratios. Analogies like that don't apply. Early computers were expensive but there was no alternative. Yes, people knew that raw computing power per dollar would rocket sky high in few years - and yet they just had to buy the expensive stuff if they wanted the work done right then. All Rossi's machines do is produce heat. You can have that from hundreds of cheap devices and all Rossi's device has over them is a theoretical cost advantage in the (very) long run. So why would anybody buy unproven technology today that eventually breaks even in a couple of years when even the manufacturer himself says that the price is going to drop dramatically in a fraction of that time? It doesn't make any sense what so ever. Except if you do NOT want people to buy the expensive machines but keep them waiting for another year or so. I can only interpret Rossi's current talk about super-cheap e-cats in the near future as an elaborate excuse for not selling anything today.
[Vo]:Joe Zawodny comments on the Nasa LENR video
To be fair to all parties on this forum we need to read Joe Zawodny's comments on the Nasa video: http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2012/01/14/technology-gateway-video/
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mary, To be fair to both sides, I do note Zawodny has not seen a Rossi reactor and is a competitor. So his statements do nothing to dampen Rossi's claims. Like all scientists, he is saying it needs more money to be thrown at it / him. Of course it does. Rossi is at the Model T stage. Just starting to make the world's first mass produced FPE device. When a billion or so has been spent on further research, we will see FPE devices in everything that uses any form of power. The devices will directly generate electricity or heat or both depending on what you need. Transmutation of elements via the FPE may replace mining. AG On 1/16/2012 11:54 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: Read Zawodny's recent statement as cited by Aussie Guy. That's pretty much my view. He makes a lot of sense the second time around.
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
As suggested I did send Rossi a copy of the statement made by Jones Beene. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg61105.html Rossi's comments were This is totally false and ridiculous. AG On 1/16/2012 4:46 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Another guess...If it is a military organization, based in (North) America and starts with the letter N, maybe its NORAD. NORAD could use a LENR power plant to power their underground bunkers. If NORAD needed nuclear power for their bunkers, they could afford to buy a small submarine style fission reactor. They would hardly buy 13 Rossi kludges at the current state of development he showed on October 28, whatever that was we didn't actually see.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mark, Rossi claimed, in the latest interview, two 511 keV gammas, going in opposite directions, were produced and had been measured as a result of electron–positron annihilation inside the E-Cat reactor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron%E2%80%93positron_annihilation AG On 1/16/2012 6:08 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Aussie Guy summarizing Rossi's interview... 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected 180 degs relative to what? -Mark
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Rossi has delivered a 1 MW E-Cat, has said they are building the other 13 x 1 MW E-Cats and he has ample cash. What he said here was they are not yet finished with the optimization of the NI system. Why read something else into his statement? AG On 1/14/2012 6:35 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Didn't Ampenergo put some cash into Rossi last year in May? Here it is: http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/05/fast-facts-about-ampenergo-andrea-rossis-north-and-south-american-commercial-partner/ Wolf On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Alan J Fletchera...@well.com wrote: January 13th, 2012 at 5:51 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516cpage=15#comment-169415 The 1 MW Customer is not yet working with the 1 MW plant, because we are still completing the control systems with National Instruments. I wonder how he is running financially. Not a single eCat delivered to date; but, already pricing mega eCats for the future. No wonder the skeptics are skeptical. T
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
So you know the name of Rossi's first customer? Which is? AG On 1/15/2012 3:01 AM, Jones Beene wrote: No, I am not an employee of the customer, but it is a rather large group... ... ever heard of any large group keeping a secret secure, once too many tongue-waggers know about it? People talk.
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Interesting info. So you are confirming Rossi DID ship the 1 MW reactor to his customer. That it did not work over extended periods is to be expected with new technology. If this has happened it says 2 things: Rossi did ship the reactor to his customer. Excellent news The reactor did work but not as the customer expected. Also excellent news as it does work. Rossi is working to rectify any issues. Again excellent news as Rossi is working to meet the customers needs. So the customer is real, the device works but not as reliably as the customer expects and Rossi is working with NI to meet the customer's expectations. This is a real world result. This is an excellent result. This is product development in the flesh. So Mr. Beene now that you have started talking, who is the customer? AG On 1/15/2012 2:23 AM, Jones Beene wrote: Why read something else into this? LOL. You must be joking. Because Rossi spoke it, for one thing - and because it is misleading for another, just short of complete dishonesty. You should know this, AG - if you talk to Rossi as much as you claim; and if he is being straight with you. Rossi did deliver, yes, but the customer has sent it back. Rossi's spin: we will add controls. Only Rossi has NOT even admitted that it has been returned. That would sound too much like failure. Customers complaint: *did not work over extended periods*, so of no value for intended use, despite the fact that it does work for short periods. Thus we sent it back to Bologna.
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Wolf, Rossi has stated the customer is a US organization engaged in military research, the first 1 MW plant was at the customers site in the US and that he and others have attended to install the plant. Later he stated, he, the customer's engineer and NI are working on the advanced control system and they have made excellent progress. AG On 1/15/2012 9:17 AM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Hi AG, Jones gave a lot of hints in his answer to my questions 4:30 hours earlier. The customers name seems to start with N, is an organization in Brussel, Rossi also once mentioned the name in the context of the 28th october 1MW test while talking about the Colonel (my guess, the name has four letters and ends with O ;)). Wolf Interesting info. So you are confirming Rossi DID ship the 1 MW reactor to his customer. That it did not work over extended periods is to be expected with new technology. If this has happened it says 2 things: Rossi did ship the reactor to his customer. Excellent news The reactor did work but not as the customer expected. Also excellent news as it does work. Rossi is working to rectify any issues. Again excellent news as Rossi is working to meet the customers needs. So the customer is real, the device works but not as reliably as the customer expects and Rossi is working with NI to meet the customer's expectations. This is a real world result. This is an excellent result. This is product development in the flesh. So Mr. Beene now that you have started talking, who is the customer? AG On 1/15/2012 2:23 AM, Jones Beene wrote: Why read something else into this? LOL. You must be joking. Because Rossi spoke it, for one thing - and because it is misleading for another, just short of complete dishonesty. You should know this, AG - if you talk to Rossi as much as you claim; and if he is being straight with you. Rossi did deliver, yes, but the customer has sent it back. Rossi's spin: we will add controls. Only Rossi has NOT even admitted that it has been returned. That would sound too much like failure. Customers complaint: *did not work over extended periods*, so of no value for intended use, despite the fact that it does work for short periods. Thus we sent it back to Bologna.
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Mary you need to direct this to Jones Beene who claims to have the inside information that the customer is real, did receive the plant and that it worked but not as long as the customer expected. Even you would have to admit this is good information and what one would expect from a first off the rack, real world device. AG On 1/15/2012 9:31 AM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de mailto:wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: Hi AG, Jones gave a lot of hints in his answer to my questions 4:30 hours earlier. The customers name seems to start with N, is an organization in Brussel, Rossi also once mentioned the name in the context of the 28th october 1MW test while talking about the Colonel (my guess, the name has four letters and ends with O ;)). If anyone has the slightest evidence that the Colonel works for NATO, that NATO is a customer of Rossi or that Rossi even *has* a customer other than himself, could you please provide it? If you have conclusive evidence, even better. Then I could stop trying to slightly correct the torrent of obvious misinformation, misdirection and outright error which gets posted here so much.
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Jones, I haven't spoken to Andrea for some time, waiting on the specs of the high temp plant before we get into contracts. I have emailed him about your comments. AG On 1/15/2012 9:45 AM, Jones Beene wrote: -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Mary you need to direct this to Jones Beene who claims to have the inside information ... AG: I could not make it any clearer in the prior post that I am not a Rossi insider. OTOH - AG - you have consistently said that you talk to AR often (3 times per day ?) and that you are an insider. So AG - on the next call to AR - ask him directly - will be fixing the failed first reactor in Bologna, or at the customer's location? He will not disclose the name of the customer, and I cannot confirm it. End of story. For today, anyway. Jones
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Jones, What failed reactor? You claim to have a report that it produces massive amounts of excess heat. So it works. All I see in your report is there is a control issue and that Rossi, the customers engineer and NI are working to fix it. This is new and leading edge technology. Would I expect a 1 MW plant I buy from Rossi to work like it was a plant that was the result of 10 years of RD? No way. Would I expect it to demonstrate a very positive excess heat signature? Yes. Would I be willing to work with Rossi and NI to obtain better control? Of course. To me you have just confirmed everything I believed to be true and have cleared away any doubts I may have had. For that I thank you. Why you put a negative spin on this is beyond me? It is the best news you could have reported. IT WORKS! Have you never worked with a lead edge product before? You do know that the leading edge is also called the bleeding edge and for very good reasons. AG On 1/15/2012 9:45 AM, Jones Beene wrote: -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Mary you need to direct this to Jones Beene who claims to have the inside information ... AG: I could not make it any clearer in the prior post that I am not a Rossi insider. OTOH - AG - you have consistently said that you talk to AR often (3 times per day ?) and that you are an insider. So AG - on the next call to AR - ask him directly - will be fixing the failed first reactor in Bologna, or at the customer's location? He will not disclose the name of the customer, and I cannot confirm it. End of story. For today, anyway. Jones
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Jed, Yup. Learning that the hard way. But it does WORK. AG On 1/15/2012 10:01 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Cold fusion is much harder than it looks.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
In the interview, Rossi said the customer price would be $500 for a 10 kW E-Cat. AG On 1/15/2012 10:57 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Mary Yugo's message of Sat, 14 Jan 2012 12:54:16 -0800: Hi, I think the price of the 10 kW modules is just a projected price, and is probably more likely to be a manufacturing cost price than what he can really sell them for. Furthermore, I think that when the factory for the small units really kicks into high gear, the price of the 1 MW units will come down accordingly. Sorry if this was discussed and I missed it but a new set of Rossi says is creating cognitive dissonance in several places. Rossi says on his blog that the price of his so-called megawatt plant has been reduced from $2 million to $1.5 million. But he projects that starting within a year, his 10kW devices will sell for $50/kW. $50 per kW is only $50,000 per megawatt. Why would anyone pay a million and a half dollars for something you could assemble yourself, albeit in a more modular form for $50,000? Perhaps Rossi should buy his own 10kW modules to put together his megawatt plant. Wasn't that what he did for his supposed first customer anyway? Best I recall even he claimed only 470 kW from more than 50 modules. This Rossi Says should be over the top for even the most enthusiastic believer. (first noticed, far as I know, by Alsetalokin on the moletrap forum: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2212page=709 ) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Rossi says the domestic E-Cat is in UL certification. AG On 1/15/2012 10:57 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Mary Yugo's message of Sat, 14 Jan 2012 12:54:16 -0800: Hi, I think the price of the 10 kW modules is just a projected price, and is probably more likely to be a manufacturing cost price than what he can really sell them for. Furthermore, I think that when the factory for the small units really kicks into high gear, the price of the 1 MW units will come down accordingly. Sorry if this was discussed and I missed it but a new set of Rossi says is creating cognitive dissonance in several places. Rossi says on his blog that the price of his so-called megawatt plant has been reduced from $2 million to $1.5 million. But he projects that starting within a year, his 10kW devices will sell for $50/kW. $50 per kW is only $50,000 per megawatt. Why would anyone pay a million and a half dollars for something you could assemble yourself, albeit in a more modular form for $50,000? Perhaps Rossi should buy his own 10kW modules to put together his megawatt plant. Wasn't that what he did for his supposed first customer anyway? Best I recall even he claimed only 470 kW from more than 50 modules. This Rossi Says should be over the top for even the most enthusiastic believer. (first noticed, far as I know, by Alsetalokin on the moletrap forum: http://www.moletrap.co.uk/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2212page=709 ) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Size of a portable computer. Refill works like refilling a ball point pen. AG On 1/15/2012 11:09 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Aussie Guy E-Cat's message of Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:04:53 +1030: Hi, [snip] In the interview, Rossi said the customer price would be $500 for a 10 kW E-Cat. AG I sincerely hope it is. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Mary spin it anyway you try, you were wrong. Rossi does have a customer, he did ship the plant, it does work and produce excess heat, there are control issues, so what, you expect there would not be control issues. They will be fixed. Main point is Mary your original analysis and statement about the 1 MW plant were 100% incorrect. Care to do better now? AG On 1/15/2012 12:05 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net mailto:jone...@pacbell.net wrote: -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Why you put a negative spin on this is beyond me? It is the best news you could have reported. IT WORKS! Works, yes ... for a short time. But is it cost effective? - not on this planet. Will it make a dent in fossil fuel use? - not on this planet, at least not as it stands now. Let's be clear, I want to see this technology, Ni-H, succeed more than anyone and by anyone, but I am not a shill for AR, and I hope you are not. He may have succeeded in raising the level of consciousness that Ni-H works, but the invention goes back to Thermacore, and whether Rossi can take that through to fulfillment is in doubt. What is the real value of a $2 million device, or a $2000 device, that works for 24 hours, produces about $1000 worth of heat and then goes quiescent? Rossi's (and Defkalion's) claims were always that their devices run unattended for a minimum of six months without refueling or other attention. In fact Rossi repeatedly said they run much longer but that he would prefer the six month interval for safety reasons until he got to know how they age in the field. If that was a lie, what else do you think Rossi lied about? If he lied about that, why believe anything he said?
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Mary, Spin it anyway you try, you were wrong. Rossi does have a customer, he did ship the plant, it does work and produce excess heat, there are control issues, so what, you expect there would not be control issues. They will be fixed. Main point is Mary your original analysis and statement about the 1 MW plant were 100% incorrect. Care to do better now? AG On 1/15/2012 12:05 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net mailto:jone...@pacbell.net wrote: -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat Why you put a negative spin on this is beyond me? It is the best news you could have reported. IT WORKS! Works, yes ... for a short time. But is it cost effective? - not on this planet. Will it make a dent in fossil fuel use? - not on this planet, at least not as it stands now. Let's be clear, I want to see this technology, Ni-H, succeed more than anyone and by anyone, but I am not a shill for AR, and I hope you are not. He may have succeeded in raising the level of consciousness that Ni-H works, but the invention goes back to Thermacore, and whether Rossi can take that through to fulfillment is in doubt. What is the real value of a $2 million device, or a $2000 device, that works for 24 hours, produces about $1000 worth of heat and then goes quiescent? Rossi's (and Defkalion's) claims were always that their devices run unattended for a minimum of six months without refueling or other attention. In fact Rossi repeatedly said they run much longer but that he would prefer the six month interval for safety reasons until he got to know how they age in the field. If that was a lie, what else do you think Rossi lied about? If he lied about that, why believe anything he said?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Steven, That is what Rossi has said. Listed to the interview. He is working with UL to get the home unit certified. That means he has the final production unit working as UL don't certify prototypes. They will however work with a company on the final product so as to obtain certification and they understand the final product may need some tweaking to get their stamp. AG On 1/15/2012 11:32 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: From Aussie: Rossi says the domestic E-Cat is in UL certification. Is in UL certification? Not sure I understand the phrase in as it's being used here. Does Rossi mean his eCats are currently being tested for UL certification? How could Rossi's eCats possibly get UL certification this soon? Good grief! Rossi claims his contraptions emit gamma radiation!8-0 Something doesn't make sense here. I hope clarification is forth coming. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
What I learned from the interview. 10 kW home E-Cat is the size of a portable computer. Rossi calls the recharges Energy Sticks, fits with the ball point pen refill statement. Replacement is simple and can be done by anyone. No H2 canisters used. Reactor stores and recycles the H2. Only uses picograms of H2. Reactor control is via regulation of operational heat point. Fuel lasts 4,320 operational hours (180 days at 24 hours a day). E-Cat will signal when refill is needed. Customer can purchase several refills and keep them in stock. Cost of the refill to the customer will be $10 plus installation if needed. Will be available via internet sales. Home units will run in self sustain mode. 512 keV 180 deg Gammas have been detected. 1st 1 MW plant is in modification. Should be operation in 1 - 2 months. 12 additional 1 MW plants are being built. 1 additional 1 MW plant has been sold to another customer. UL certification of the home E-Cat is in process. 2.7 to 2.9 kWs needed for 1 hour to start the home 10 kW E-Cat. Home E-Cat has only 1 reactor. Rossi claims the RFG helps the Coulomb barrier work with the reaction and not against it. First E-Cat factory is in Florida. Rossi is going to Massachusetts to further discuss building another E-Cat plant there. Home E-Cat production will start in the US fall. Sales will start in the US winter. Rossi is not interested in family investors as the business is still risky. Large hedge funds are welcome but only with a small % investment. Does plan to go public. Home E-Cat has a 30 year expected life. Customer price between $400 to $500 for a home E-Cat 10 kW thermal unit. AG On 1/15/2012 10:29 AM, Wolf Fischer wrote: Hi there, Rossi was just on the Smart Scarecrow Show. There were some new information / clarification (although I can't remember them all; the information below should be correct however I sometimes had problems understanding Rossi because of a pretty low audio quality and me not being a native English speaker): 1. He sold another 1MW reactor (in addition to the 13 which have already been sold), but many potential customers are in line... 2. Production should start in autumn, distribution in winter (if everything works out as planned) 3. He wants to sell one million Ecats next year (this is what they are aiming for in a complete year regarding production) 4. Price of the Home Ecat is down to 500$ 5. Ecat is thought for heating the home, not for heating the water for showering etc. 6. Refueling the Ecat is done by replacing a cartridge. This cartridge will cost around 10$ and will then be sent back to a factory where it will be recycled. 7. The testing of the Ecat through the University of Bologna is currently not at the top of his priority list (there is currently the engineering of the production facilities) but he said something about starting with this next month 8. I wanted to know something about the stability of the reactor (I was referring to the uptime of the reactor, however Sterling shortened the question). According to Rossi, especially the temperature output was stabilized with the help of NI (at least this is what I understood). 9. On patenting - his lawyers are working on that. 10. Regarding the radio frequency generator: He didn't want to reveal anything. He compared this to Martial Arts and said something about that it is important for overcoming the coulomb barrier. 11. If I understood him correctly (If!), while explaining the working mechanism of the reactor core, he said that in the reaction gamma rays will be emitted, then hit a lead shielding which then will heat up and therefore heat the water. 12. The first question regarding the first customer was (of course) not answered because of an NDA This is what I did just remember from 1:30h... There will surely be a transcript available soon. Wolf
Re: [Vo]:1MW delay
Mary, As for what I believe, well I have done my homework. I'm ready to buy a 1 MW high temp plant that we can link to a 350 kW steam turbine with all the tricky bits to make it as efficient as we can. Rossi knows it and he knows how I will test it. He requested me to wait until he had finished the high temp version. So I'm waiting. While our first plant may not be cost effective, we know the future price will generate Ac MWhs at less than any other energy source can achieve. I may tear my hair out and get very frustrated, playing with the initial control systems but that is part of the cost of dealing with and being involved with leading edge technology. You seem to be not willing to accept this is real until it works as well as say an iPad does. If you wait until then, the market is owned by those that went before and did not need to be 100.% certain it was real. It's real. It has control issues. Those control issues are what engineers, engineering hours and money fix. AG On 1/15/2012 1:05 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 5:54 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Mary spin it anyway you try, you were wrong. Rossi does have a customer, he did ship the plant, it does work and produce excess heat, there are control issues, so what, you expect there would not be control issues. They will be fixed. Main point is Mary your original analysis and statement about the 1 MW plant were 100% incorrect. Care to do better now? I'd be happy but what evidence other than what Rossi says would I base doing better on? How in the world can you know whether or not he's telling the truth?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Terry, I thought CE certification was largely self certification with the manufacturer claiming his product meets all applicable standards. What way, if it doesn't, a CE certifier doesn't get sued, the manufacturer does. AG On 1/15/2012 1:12 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Steven, That is what Rossi has said. Listed to the interview. He is working with UL to get the home unit certified. That means he has the final production unit working as UL don't certify prototypes. They will however work with a company on the final product so as to obtain certification and they understand the final product may need some tweaking to get their stamp. Rossi also claims CE certification. I joined CE to confirm this and could not. Next time you speak with him, ask him for a copy of the CE certification. T
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Steven, I have been involved with UL certification. You first send them a unit for their analysis. Then following their initial report, you make a few changes to tweak the product so it will pass. AG On 1/15/2012 1:10 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: They will however work with a company on the final product so as to obtain certification and they understand the final product may need some tweaking to get their stamp. Aussie, I confess that at present you have me at a disadvantage. I have not yet listened to the interview. I plan to listen to it soon. With that confession said, I simply find it... well surreal to assume that Rossi has gotten this far, so soon. Granted, maybe he has. And if so, good for Rossi. We all benefit... well, except perhaps for the entire petroleum industrial complex and its countless subsidiaries. Having not yet listened to the interview it is natural for someone in my shoes to perceive the phrase you used: ... may need some tweaking as if it's a joker in the card deck. It could mean just about anything. Maybe tweaking means Rossi's eCats will be ready for prime-time in just couple of months, with just a few minor adjustments here and there. However, tweaking could also mean Rossi's eCats could take another ten or twenty years and several billion dollars of RD funding before someone like me can buy one from Wall Mart. I just don't know enuf yet. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Jed, I agree. I did once design embedded control systems. The cost to Rossi would be around $10, especially in the 1m unit pricing. Electronics today is done for almost nothing. Retail price can however be 1,000s of time higher, especially if you must buy that failed controller from a single source. I'm starting to form a mental picture of the home E-Cat, especially after Rossi called the replaceable fuel module a Energy Stick and said replacing them was not replacing the ink cartridge in a ball point pen. What I also found interesting was Rossi saying the E-Cat only used picograms of H2 and that the home E-Cat had a system to recycle the H2 so there were no H2 cartridges to replace. Then there was the bit that the RFG caused the Coulomb barrier to work for and not against the reaction. Here I note DFG claim not to use a RFG. AG On 1/15/2012 1:10 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com mailto:sa...@pobox.com wrote: These prices are just plain silly. He's going to manufacture furnaces for the home for $500 each. Sure he is, like I really believe that... On the contrary, it is quite believable. The device is only 10 kW, which is not enough to heat an entire house. It sounds like a stand-alone device, like a large baseboard electric room heater, or a kerosene heater. A 240 V 5 kW baseboard heater costs $250, so that's right at the same price point. 12 kW kerosene heaters cost $150 to $250. A small gas furnace designed for central heating, with remote thermostatic controls and whatnot costs $800 to $1000. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi on the Smart Scarecrow Show
Mary, From what I know, there was nothing said that seemed to be out of place. Rossi's earlier Door Knob copper reactor could reach the 10 - 20 kW power level. It was a VERY simple design. If that is what is at the heart of the home E-Cat, Rossi will make a fortune selling 10 kW units for $400 to $500 each. AG On 1/15/2012 1:04 PM, Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 6:00 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: What I learned from the interview. 10 kW home E-Cat is the size of a portable computer.SNIP Just curious -- you believe all that? Some of that? None of that?
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Jed, Rossi is onto a winner here. Look at the earlier copper pipe Door Knob style reactor. It produced in the 10 to 20 kW range, same as the home E-Cat. Put it in a case, a few fittings for the fluid, small mirco for control, small transformerless power supply, wraparound heater, RFG coil, a screw in Energy Stick with the Ni power and like Bob's your uncle, you have a home E-Cat. Cost when making 1 mil per year? Maybe $100 tops. He needs to give WalMart and other retailer around 100% markup, so out the factory door at $200 to $250 for a $400 to $500 retail. Nice profit there for Rossi and the retailer. VERY DOABLE. Can see there will be addons, like external heat exchangers and circulation pumps with fans for space heating, inside water tank heat exchangers for hot water, etc. Doubt this is a whole system price, more like a price for the E-Cat thermal unit with an inlet connection and a outlet connection plus a On/Off button and a light / beeper to say it is time to replace the Energy Stick. Could be quite small as the Fat E-Cat reactor assembly was stated as being 20 x 20 x 1 cm with 2 cm of lead on all sides. That reactor assembly had 3 reactor cores. Rossi has said the home unit only has 1 reactor, so maybe the reactor assembly is them reduced to 8 x 20 x 1. With 2 cm of lead on all sides we get 12 x 24 x 5 cm. Lap top size as Rossi has stated. AG On 1/15/2012 1:49 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Mary Yugo wrote: On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 7:27 PM, mix...@bigpond.com mailto:mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Mary Yugo's message of Sat, 14 Jan 2012 12:54:16 -0800: Hi, I think the price of the 10 kW modules is just a projected price, and is probably more likely to be a manufacturing cost price than what he can really sell them for. Furthermore, I think that when the factory for the small units really kicks into high gear, the price of the 1 MW units will come down accordingly. Sorry if this was discussed and I missed it but a new set of Rossi says is creating cognitive dissonance in several places. Rossi says on his blog that the price of his so-called megawatt plant has been reduced from $2 million to $1.5 million. But he projects that starting within a year, his 10kW devices will sell for $50/kW. $50 per kW is only $50,000 per megawatt. Why would anyone pay a million and a half dollars for something you could assemble yourself, albeit in a more modular form for $50,000? This is truly idiotic comment. Yugo does not understand the first thing about business or technology. I am glad I blocker her message. This is like asking anyone would buy a Data General Supernova minicomputer in 1979, knowing that in a few years personal computers would become available with far better price/performance ratios. In the 1970s and early 80s I knew lots of companies that purchased Data General supernovas and MV 8000s, and DEC computers of similar types. I programmed them. The customers and I and everyone else knew perfectly well that minicomputers would soon knock their socks off. We were looking forward to it. I _owned_ a minicomputer, with 4 kB of ram. I used to show it to minicomputer users. However, in the meanwhile, before the deluge of microcomputers hit, those companies got every dime's worth of value out of the machines they purchased. The same thing applies to the people who purchased early model automobiles and truck, airplanes, copy machines, supercomputers of the 1960s which had about as much computing power as today's cellphones, and every other technology of the last 200 years. It always goes obsolete quickly. For some users, for some purposes, it is worth buying anyway. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi's pricing mismatch is really gross
Harry, That is how the UL certification process starts. They do an analysis and give you a prelim report on what needs to be tweaked to get certification. They will work with a company during the development stage as well. Just you need to pay them. AG On 1/15/2012 3:57 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: At this time I bet being in certification means Rossi is in discussions with the certifier to see if the test environment can be secured. Harry On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Steven, I have been involved with UL certification. You first send them a unit for their analysis. Then following their initial report, you make a few changes to tweak the product so it will pass. AG On 1/15/2012 1:10 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: They will however work with a company on the final product so as to obtain certification and they understand the final product may need some tweaking to get their stamp. Aussie, I confess that at present you have me at a disadvantage. I have not yet listened to the interview. I plan to listen to it soon. With that confession said, I simply find it... well surreal to assume that Rossi has gotten this far, so soon. Granted, maybe he has. And if so, good for Rossi. We all benefit... well, except perhaps for the entire petroleum industrial complex and its countless subsidiaries. Having not yet listened to the interview it is natural for someone in my shoes to perceive the phrase you used: ... may need some tweaking as if it's a joker in the card deck. It could mean just about anything. Maybe tweaking means Rossi's eCats will be ready for prime-time in just couple of months, with just a few minor adjustments here and there. However, tweaking could also mean Rossi's eCats could take another ten or twenty years and several billion dollars of RD funding before someone like me can buy one from Wall Mart. I just don't know enuf yet. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Rossi interview on youtube
1.6 hours long http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5cG-36Bag
Re: [Vo]:Rossi interview on youtube
Listening to the interview again. Home E-Cat reactor is the size of a package of cigarettes. Smaller than I thought but still based on the flat reactor assembly as used in the Fat E-Cats. AG On 1/15/2012 4:26 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: 1.6 hours long http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5cG-36Bag
Re: [Vo]:video from NASA about lenr (cold fusion)
Finally there is movement at the station. http://www.mountainman.com.au/mansnowy.html Now all are starting the hunt for the FPE / LENR Colt that got away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_-DKUimeo One day someone will do something like this for the LENR mob and their journey to catch the Colt. Yes it was the outsider, that none thought could do the job, that beat all the others, never gave up and finally got the job done. Rossi and The Man From Snowy River have a lot in common. Bout time mate. AG On 1/12/2012 10:49 PM, Wolf Fischer wrote: I didn't follow the discussions on the potential catalyst here (as I am no physicist), but could carbon be the missing ingredient (as C is being mentioned in the video)? Have there ever been publications on a H-Ni-C LENR experiment? Or is this something that NASA is working on and hasn't published any details yet? video from NASA about lenr (cold fusion) http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html
Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if e-cat work as claimed by rossi
Being a quite achiever. Lots happening and in progress. AG On 1/13/2012 6:47 AM, Alan J Fletcher wrote: At 06:20 AM 1/12/2012, David ledin wrote: Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if Mr Bryce, a member of the Australian Skeptics confirm e-cat work as claimed by rossi. http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/mullumbimby-helping-to-save-world-20120112-1pxj2.html Hmmm ... why all the Ausie eCat Interest? Where's OUR GUY?
Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if e-cat work as claimed by rossi
We are not directly involved but suspect some of our work has leaked a bit. There have been a few probing emails as of late. This group could be the source or it could be other groups that are starting to form. The market size and variety is HUGH. FPE devices will completely reshape how we generate and use energy. Plenty of room for many players. I'm sure Dick Smith would love to have a FPE powered chopper with unlimited range. 2012 will be the year that the world wakes up to FPE devices. 2013 will see massive development. By 2015 the use of FPE devises will be widespread and will be the preferred power source. Off the shelf CHP FPE powered generators, running domestic homes and commercial offices will be common place. Every man and his dog will be involved in selling and installing domestic and commercial CHP systems. There will be a massive waiting period. Many HVAC people that are struggling to make a buck today will become very rich. Despite all this, the Arctic Ice Cap will melt out in the summer of 2015. Methane release into the Arctic atmosphere will massively accelerate. GW will get a steroid like boost. We will have a tool to fix it but it may be too late to stop it. FPE devices will help to reduce the worst effects and will save many lives. Rossi will never get a Nobel. Others, who finally figure out what is going on will. Direct FPE to electrical generation will happen. Yes all this by the end of 2015. AG On 1/13/2012 9:25 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Being a quite achiever. Lots happening and in progress. Are you involved in this test? Will you give us a special report if so? T
Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if e-cat work as claimed by rossi
It is my dyslexia. Always get letters back to front. Many times spell check can't pick it up. I need to type much slower and reread everything I type several times. Even then I miss some words. AG On 1/13/2012 9:46 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Being a quite achiever. Lots happening and in progress. I assume you mean QUIET achiever. Not quite quite. Quite quiet. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Rossi : customer can refill
Yes it is a BIG change. The reactor design must be VERY different. It is a good development. Go Rossi Go. AG On 1/13/2012 9:57 AM, Alan J Fletcher wrote: January 12th, 2012 at 5:51 PM Andrea Rossi http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=11#comment-168783 Dear Mattia Zirzi: 1- Yes, every 6 months the domestic E-Cat will have to be refilled 2- the refilling operation will be made by the Customer himself or by his usual plumber, or installer. It will be a very simple operation. Warm Regards, A.R. That's a BIG change ... I was wondering how he was going to deliver a $10 recharge with a visit from an approved installer. (lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat -- Hi, google!)
Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if e-cat work as claimed by rossi
Dick Smith is legendary. If he gets behind Rossi, it will make our efforts seem like child's play. He can open doors at any level of industry or government. He is not afraid to back the underdog, attach the status quo and to have a go mate. With this getting into the SMH and Dick Smith sending this engineer to Rossi, there is more here than just a bet. You can be sure of that. AG On 1/13/2012 10:11 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Casual readers may have missed this. The story here is that someone has apparently gone from Australia to Italy to visit Rossi and test the machine. Quote: The entrepreneur Dick Smith has sent a consulting aerospace engineer, Ian Bryce, who has a science background, to assess the machine on his behalf. The other story is Rossi talking to them via Skype. When I first read this, I was wondering how anyone can settle a bet for $200,000 based on a Skype call. Apparently they have persuaded Rossi to allow a test. Maybe it is because he has soft spot for charity events. (He does -- no kidding.) I doubt Rossi will allow an test adequate to settle such a large wager. If I were Smith I would want rock solid proof. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if e-cat work as claimed by rossi
What a wanker report http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/12/smith_offers_ecat_prize/ The only BS is that from this publication.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi : customer can refill
How he has managed to do this will be very interesting to see. I can only imagine the whole sealed reactor assembly must be replaced and then recycled. The mentioned $10 does seem to be way too low a price unless the sealed reactor is a throw away item (throw away into the recycle trash bin). Maybe like a dead D cell battery? AG On 1/13/2012 10:26 AM, Alan J Fletcher wrote: At 03:46 PM 1/12/2012, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: Yes it is a BIG change. The reactor design must be VERY different. It is a good development. Go Rossi Go. It must be an integrated Nickel+Hydrogen cartridge.
Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if e-cat work as claimed by rossi
If Dick Smith comes out of his sort of semi retirement, puts his money, influence and passion behind the E-Cat, Aussie will become a E-Cat hotbed. AG On 1/13/2012 10:35 AM, Craig Brown wrote: Agreed. I emailed this guy and told him exactly what I thought of his report. It's so full of ridicule and innacurate information that no wonder ordinary folks can't get behind LENR. If you look back at his previous articles he's the closed minded type. Probably has a subscription to Bob Park and James Randi. Grrr... Original Message Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dick Smith will give to the charity group $200,000 if e-cat work as claimed by rossi From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com Date: Fri, January 13, 2012 10:00 am To: vortex-l@eskimo.com mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com What a wanker report http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/12/smith_offers_ecat_prize/ The only BS is that from this publication.
Re: [Vo]:Mock paper
Look at the transmutations . Holey sheet! AG On 1/13/2012 4:04 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: If this is true then don't you think Santilli's claims are even more extravagant (to use one of M. Y.' s favorite adjectives) than Rossi's claims? harry On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Did a quick read of entire paper... Santilli has been around quite awhile, and is a Ph.D. physicist; check out the Wikipedia page on him. The paper is describing his recent tests with his 'hadronic reactor', which is based on his own theories. Apparently, two independent labs were used to analyze the elemental composition of the electrodes before and after each test, and the content of the gases used inside, before and after. Both electrode and gas showed the expected elemental changes. The reactor produce considerable heat which is used to produce steam. In one test, heat production was so intense that it had to be shut down after only a few seconds; or it might have tripped a pressure relief valve first and then was shut down. He is claiming nuclear reactions with no harmful radiation... -Mark -Original Message- From: Harry Veeder [mailto:hveeder...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:12 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mock paper Would someone tell me if this a sincere paper? Perhaps I have grown cynical over the last year, because of Rossi's dismissal of scientific practice and the new level of secrecy surrounding LENR research, but I'm remain very skeptical. To me the pictures look like dummy apparatuses which mock Rossi work. I have been told that lie could be a short hand for lie-algebra, but it looks like a double entendre. Also the numerous references of independent verifications sounds like a cliche, and I role my eyes whenever someone propose a new kind of matter and names it after themselves. Harry On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Harry Veederhveeder...@gmail.com wrote: A pretend paper mocking LENR research. Harry PROCEEDINGS OF THE THIRD INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON LIE-ADMISSIBLE TREATMENT OF IRREVERSIBLE PROCESSES (ICLATIP - 3) Kathmandu University, Nepal, April (2011) pages 163-177 http://www.santilli-foundation.org/docs/ICNF-3.pdf
Re: [Vo]:MIT IAP 2012 Program
Interesting revelation that torque has been generated from a FPE device. Wonder when that occurred? AG On 1/9/2012 10:15 AM, Alan Fletcher wrote: and energy produced from cold fusion reactions has been used to drive a Stirling engine.
Re: [Vo]:MIT IAP 2012 Program
Apparently the Swartz paper never made it into the lenr-canr.org archives. It is mentioned several times. On 1/9/2012 10:29 AM, Alan Fletcher wrote: Swartz, M., Excess Power Gain using High Impedance and Codepositional LANR Devices Monitored by Calorimetry, Heat Flow, and Paired Stirling Engines, Proceedings of the 14th International Conference onCondensed Matter Nuclear Science and the 14th International Conference on Cold Fusion (ICCF-14), 10-15 August 2008, Washington, D.C. Editors:David J. Nagel and Michael E. Melich, ISBN: 978-0-578-06694-3, 123, (2010). - Original Message - Interesting revelation that torque has been generated from a FPE device. Wonder when that occurred?
Re: [Vo]:MIT IAP 2012 Program
Did find the Swartz paper on his site. Very interesting paper. Thanks for the link. It did revealed what I expected, which was that as the excess heat is removed from the reaction chamber, via the dual Stirling engines, the reactor temp drops and the process can revert to non OU operation. To stay in OU mode requires control of the operational Sweet Spot. I have always assumed this is what NI, Rossi and his first customer are doing. I see this output energy versus sweet spot control to be something easier to do with a multi reactor system and in a single reactor. With a multi reactor system you can switch the individual reactors on and off to match the output energy demand while maintaining the individual reactors in their sweet spot. AG On 1/9/2012 10:34 AM, Alan Fletcher wrote: Also see http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue75/colloquium.html August 2007 Colloquium on Lattice-Assisted Nuclear Reactions in Deuterated Metals ... Dr. Swartz showed videos of his latest cold fusion driven Stirling engines. They appear to have undergone changes, with an increase in excess power by about a factor of ten since he first showed them at the MIT Colloquium in 2005. ... - Original Message - Swartz, M., Excess Power Gain using High Impedance and Codepositional LANR Devices Monitored by Calorimetry, Heat Flow, and Paired Stirling Engines, Proceedings of the 14th International Conference onCondensed Matter Nuclear Science and the 14th International Conference on Cold Fusion (ICCF-14), 10-15 August 2008, Washington, D.C. Editors:David J. Nagel and Michael E. Melich, ISBN: 978-0-578-06694-3, 123, (2010).
Re: [Vo]:MIT IAP 2012 Program
My feeling was he looked at the rate of heat increase. If it was not going up fast enough, he would give the heaters another kick and then switch them off. Once he got into the sweet spot, he engaged his RFG control system: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uuHG75m08zlbjA_NCNd3P9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink The RFGs were apparently further controlled by the brown box with the screen on the top, that sat to the right of the opened end of the container. Probably all now very old / yesterday's tech with the NI involvement. AG On 1/9/2012 11:40 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: To stay in OU mode requires control of the operational Sweet Spot. Ah, yes, the OOP. Rossi seems to be able to sense when his reaction begins. I've often wondered if it is an audible que. T
Re: [Vo]:MIT IAP 2012 Program
Image of the Brown Box that apparently controlled the heaters and the RFGs: https://picasaweb.google.com/100758632386227249211/November282011#5681035346850592738 AG On 1/9/2012 11:40 AM, Terry Blanton wrote: On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: To stay in OU mode requires control of the operational Sweet Spot. Ah, yes, the OOP. Rossi seems to be able to sense when his reaction begins. I've often wondered if it is an audible que. T
Re: [Vo]:America's first jet flight Oct 1942
I thought the door bell vibrator to jiggle the instrument panel was cool. My kind of solution. AG On 1/7/2012 12:38 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: I like how a dummy wooden prop was used to disguised the aircraft's secret propulsion system. Harry On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.aircraftowner.com/videos/view/americas-first-jet-flight-october-1942_1617.html
Re: [Vo]:America's first jet flight Oct 1942
In 1910 Henri Coandă filed a patent on a jet propulsion system which used piston-engine exhaust gases to add heat to an otherwise pure air stream compressed by rotating fan blades in a duct. The turbojet, was invented in the 1940s, independently by Frank Whittle and Hans von Ohain. The first turbojet aircraft to fly was the Heinkel He 178 prototype of the Luftwaffe on August 27, 1939. The first flight of a jet engined aircraft to come to popular attention was the Italian Caproni Campini N.1 motorjet prototype that flew on August 27, 1940. It was the first jet aircraft recognised by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (at the time the German He 178 program was still kept secret). Campini had proposed the motorjet in 1932. The British experimental Gloster E.28/39 first took to the air on May 15, 1941, powered by Sir Frank Whittle's turbojet. After the United States was shown the British work, it produced the Bell XP-59A with a version of the Whittle engine built by General Electric, which flew on October 1, 1942. Seems the Italians beat the Yanks to the first public Jet Aircraft. Looks like history is repeating itself with the E-Cat. AG On 1/7/2012 12:38 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: I like how a dummy wooden prop was used to disguised the aircraft's secret propulsion system. Harry On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.aircraftowner.com/videos/view/americas-first-jet-flight-october-1942_1617.html
Re: [Vo]:Of resonances and ringing...
Exactly. AG On 1/6/2012 5:56 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: What’s coming will make the transistor age look small…
Re: [Vo]:20 kW home E-Cat LCOE
I design and build embedded micro systems. More like $10 for the electronics ex the sensors. AG On 1/4/2012 7:25 PM, Axil Axil wrote: /A $1,500 total price of a E-Cat that includes a NI microprocessor based controls system is hard to believe. I project that the control system will be a major cost component of the E-Cat. Even computerized appliances like refrigerators sell for twice that. When I see that low price…when I can buy at that low price… I will believe it./ On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 2:52 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote: Based on the recently announced 20 kW thermal home E-Cat costing $1,500 and assuming it draws 0.4 kW (400 Watts) from the mains (COP 50), here is the LCOE and the individual item cost breakdowns. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kLBSLYjhfkssP57d3w1J6dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink What I find interesting is annual cost of the fuel and servicing is 4 times the Levelized Annual Investment Cost of the E-Cat hardware. Will home E-Cats become like ink jet printers that are sold near cost price to get the replacement ink business? But with a LCOE cost of $0.00456 / thermal kWh who cares? This is just about as close to free energy as you can get. No excuse for anybody on this planet to be cold again. With the E-Cat's thermal energy being so low cost, cleaning up dirty water and desalination of sea / brackish water should be low cost as well. Well done Andrea Rossi, what a lovely New Years present to the whole planet.
