Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Charles,

I find it frustrating that you did not respond to my response to your post,
which directly answered your questions as best I could to give you context
and hard data to the outreach work and Wikidata activity within that. Yet
you took the time to respond to Pigs'.

Pigs has done nothing but personally attack and belittle the outreach
efforts that I have made.

Pigs is also -- more critical to the point -- not working with the
stakeholders of the catalog property like GerardM and I have been, and
while he has his perspective on what is happening here, he is not involved
in the outreach happening here and does not have that first-hand context
and understanding.

Pigs will say that I am attacking him but I am not. I try to ignore his
personal attacks on me and my work but I also am not going to stand by and
let him present himself as a stakeholder in this process.

I understand there are many who appreciate and support his work on the
projects. I wish I could see that but the hostility and rudeness that are
his mode of communication -- and his aggressive nastiness to me and the
outreach work I do makes that impossible. I feel instant defensiveness and
assault when I deal with him, so I try to block his comments as much as
possible, and try to avoid his project work.

But to be very clear: Pigs has no part in this outreach work. He does not
support this work. Not sure why his viewpoints here should be elevated in
any way.

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Sun, Jan 7, 2018 at 5:08 PM, Charles Horn  wrote:

>
>
> On 7 January 2018 at 02:05, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

My understanding of identifiers and authorities is that they come from
established entities, i.e., VIAF contributors
http://www.oclc.org/en/viaf/contributors.html

If we can query off a BLT identifier that would be great. But the task list
items don't have unique identifiers established -- and that would be an
onerous, artificial process.

So I have concerns about this idea, that it doesn't provide a workable
solution.

Maybe some of this is lost in translation as it is very Wikipedia-centric.


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 12:03 PM, LeadSongDog <leads...@webname.com> wrote:

> Erika,
> Well, any authority record for each event could capture location, date,
> and links to the invitation and any generated products externally to wiki
> worlds. Would that not be constructive in the context of establishing
> wikidatan notability?
>
>
> On Jan 6, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi LeadSongDog,
>
> Yes that is an article that is part of the press list that the Black Lunch
> Table has generated
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/Press
>
> Again, not a huge fan of using refs to justify an outreach initiative.
> Plus would it be necessary to use this ref to justify including Wikidata
> entries as BLT? I guess I am confused as to the need to reference things,
> where to reference things, and how that would work exactly. References to
> establish notability on Wikidata seems like a nightmarish requirement with
> the current interface. I would much prefer to use established identifiers
> via VIAF and other sources to establish notability It builds notability
> on top of established library science canons, and provides disambiguation,
> etc. Sorry I'm obsessed with this stuff, so I digress
>
> I am not sure an authority control item -- I understand this conceptually
> but what form does it take in practical terms? -- will provide a solution
> to the problem these various outreach efforts are requiring.
>
> An authority control item for each editathon might be a large set of
> "dirty data" on Wikidata, wouldn't it? I think the idea was to use
> something lightweight, already existing, and efficient to provide a SPARQL
> query/Listeria task list -- and not impinge on existing metadata
> significantly.
>
> Having a Wikimedia project-centered maintenance (for lack of a better
> word) property might be a solution, too. But I think this is the issue that
> came up in the main discussion and why catalog was suggested by consensus,
> because a maintenance project for the WikiWorld would be a somewhat big
> step organizationally to implement, I think? Apologies, I defer to Gerard's
> expertise and knowledge-base on this.
>
> Best,
>
> - Erika
>
> *Erika Herzog*
> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>
> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 4:45 AM, LeadSongDog <leads...@webname.com> wrote:
>
>> Erika,
>> You might consider using https://www.artsy.net/article/
>> the-art-genome-project-why-are-all-the-black-artists-sitting
>> -together-in-the-cafeteria as a ref. There must be something usable
>> there.
>>
>> From what I've seen it seems that BLT is principally a series of informal
>> meetings, only some of which pertain to the editathons. Each meeting has
>> distinct constituency and subject. As such, each could in principle get its
>> own authority control, as for a convention. The individual artists
>> attending may often already be so described, but as they may edit
>> pseudonymously one must be careful to avoid outing.
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

These projects all have namespaces on En Wikipedia. If there was consensus
that the projects should have Wikidata namespaces -- if that is something
the community would allow and would embrace, that would be something I
would support doing.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 11:27 AM, Thad Guidry <thadgui...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 9:53 AM Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes. This is the crux of the matter, the big question: *"I'm not sure we
>> should store this kind of data on Wikidata."*
>>
>
> So, I miss the ideas and mantra we had in Freebase. "some data is better
> than no data".  It really was FREE in the sense that editathons or curators
> or researchers could actually use Freebase to begin storing their data
> collection.  Freebase had the same worries.  And we solved it quite easily
> and built up a wonderful community of lists, data in the making, partial
> projects, etc.  Just like Black Lunch Table is doing now.  The solution was
> introducing a very simple idea of a "namespace".  Everyone and every
> project could have their own slice of Freebase and anyone could ask
> permission from the namespace owner to help edit or curate.  Our search and
> API allowed you to filter out non-root namespaces if you wanted or filter
> ON THEM.  My personal namespace was /thadguidry.  And it is there to this
> day in the data dumps where you can see all my curated data and lists.  We
> monitored namespaces for simple violations like racism, human dignity data
> violations, etc., but left it free and open in the sense that "some data is
> better than no data".  It resulted in the amassing of over 500,000,000
> namespace facts and they are still used to this day to enrich "less than
> notable" entities where many of those "less than notable/popular?" facts
> actually show up in Bing, Yahoo, Yandex, & Google and where researchers,
> and students have used those facts to enlighten the world and make it a
> better place.
>
> It would be AMAZING, if somehow, this year in 2018...that namespaces could
> actually be used in Wikidata to make it truly free and open to all.
> /blacklunchtable to start.
>
> -Thad
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

Yes. This is the crux of the matter, the big question: *"I'm not sure we
should store this kind of data on Wikidata."*

I disagree with "*Point 2 and 3 are for the BLT community to solve.*" In
the interest of transparency, Gerard, myself, and BLT came to and are
coming to the Wikidata community for assistance in solving this problem.
I'm exhaustedly saying we had previously received consensus (with the
understanding that at some point a new property that was more ideal could
be used).

The "squatting" on the property was because BLT had a problem and Gerard
and I were trying to provide an automated solution using the semantic
metadata held in Wikidata. It was also an experiment in integrating
Wikidata into a Wikipedia project, as this is a common need for outreach
projects. The solution was very effective and positive.

The two different list styles is because bulleted lists are easier for
Wikipedians to edit and understand. During editathons/events and hectic
periods of planning, it makes it easier to add items to the task list if
it's a Wikipedia bulleted list. And then add the catalog tag to the
Wikidata item, a Wikidata item that might need to be created as a result of
that addition to the bulleted list. Listeria tables are there to automate
the list for future use, and for the current editathon event. So the two
lists are a workflow tool, which I think is okay, as they serve different
needs, different end users.

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 5:40 AM, Maarten Dammers  wrote:

> On 05-01-18 22:55, Jane Darnell wrote:
>
>> I object to your use of the catalog property to link to something that is
>> not a catalog. I don't see why my objection leads you to expect me to offer
>> an alternative way to track your project. I am not responsible for your
>> project and don't understand what it is. If you can't understand that then
>> you should not probably not be editing Wikidata.
>>
> To add to that. I see three things:
> 1. Using the wrong property ( catalog (P972) ). Solution -> move to
> another property, this depends on point 3
> 2. Notability of the people BLT. Solution -> Add more information and
> links to establish notability (or worse case, delete)
> 3. Using Wikidata as a shopping list for a Wikiproject. Have a discussion
> if we, the Wikidata community,  want that (point 1 might not be needed if
> the end result is don't want)
>
> For the people like Jane and I, you're basically squatting the current
> catalog (P972) property. So we care most about point 1. Point 2 and 3 are
> for the BLT community to solve.
>
> Point 3 is probably the hardest one. On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/Lists_of_Articles I found the shopping
> lists for the BLT project. People seem to be in the hand curated list and
> in the Listeria list. Clicking around I found
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q20011585 which seems to indicate that you
> had a Black Lunch Table meetup on 9 december 2017 at " The 8th Floor" and
> judging from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_T
> able/Triangle_Jan_2018 that seems correct. At the bottom of this page is
> another Listeria shopping list based on this. I'm not sure we should store
> this kind of data on Wikidata.
>
> Maarten
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

Hi LeadSongDog,

Yes that is an article that is part of the press list that the Black Lunch
Table has generated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/Press

Again, not a huge fan of using refs to justify an outreach initiative. Plus
would it be necessary to use this ref to justify including Wikidata entries
as BLT? I guess I am confused as to the need to reference things, where to
reference things, and how that would work exactly. References to establish
notability on Wikidata seems like a nightmarish requirement with the
current interface. I would much prefer to use established identifiers via
VIAF and other sources to establish notability It builds notability on
top of established library science canons, and provides disambiguation,
etc. Sorry I'm obsessed with this stuff, so I digress

I am not sure an authority control item -- I understand this conceptually
but what form does it take in practical terms? -- will provide a solution
to the problem these various outreach efforts are requiring.

An authority control item for each editathon might be a large set of "dirty
data" on Wikidata, wouldn't it? I think the idea was to use something
lightweight, already existing, and efficient to provide a SPARQL
query/Listeria task list -- and not impinge on existing metadata
significantly.

Having a Wikimedia project-centered maintenance (for lack of a better word)
property might be a solution, too. But I think this is the issue that came
up in the main discussion and why catalog was suggested by consensus,
because a maintenance project for the WikiWorld would be a somewhat big
step organizationally to implement, I think? Apologies, I defer to Gerard's
expertise and knowledge-base on this.

Best,

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 4:45 AM, LeadSongDog  wrote:

> Erika,
> You might consider using https://www.artsy.net/article/
> the-art-genome-project-why-are-all-the-black-artists-
> sitting-together-in-the-cafeteria as a ref. There must be something
> usable there.
>
> From what I've seen it seems that BLT is principally a series of informal
> meetings, only some of which pertain to the editathons. Each meeting has
> distinct constituency and subject. As such, each could in principle get its
> own authority control, as for a convention. The individual artists
> attending may often already be so described, but as they may edit
> pseudonymously one must be careful to avoid outing.
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Charles,

Thanks for taking the time to try to understand the issues that are being
raised here.

- Wikipedia initiatives need a unique identifier in Wikidata they can use
on Wikidata to tag items to their initiative -- and most importantly run
SPARQL queries on
-- I don't think a Q number will work for this purpose, though I'm not sure
-- Whatever solution will allow for this functionality that the community
can come to consensus on would be used
--- We are not tied to catalog in any way except it has worked as a
solution for our scenario
--- Catalog was suggested to us with consensus. But if there's a better
option that meets this need, we will use that one
- Wikipedia initiatives can then add location and date to the SPARQL query
for specific events that can generate an event-based task list Listeria
table
- Wikipedia can also run SPARQL queries by geographic data (place of birth,
residence, place of death, etc.) to find, within its tagged items, a
suggested list of pages to work on for that geographic location
- Wikidata is key because it is possible to create Wikidata items that
don't yet exist on the various language Wikipedia. Wikidata allows
organizers to create a scaffolding where notability is the ongoing,
over-arching goal, so that new Wikipedia pages in various languages based
on this Wikidata scaffolding can be easily created. This also makes
Wikidata part of every single outreach event, which to me seems a logical,
forward-moving, innovative thing, as this does not typically happen at most
editathons. If I see librarians at editathons I "target" them specifically
because they typically understand identifiers, Authority control, and the
value of VIAF. This again is done to establish and improve notability. I
would assume that a significant portion of my 10,000 manual edits on
Wikidata are identifiers that I pull from VIAF.

Here's an example entry, for the children's book illustrator Carole Byard
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q28860566
[image: Inline image 1]
The Wikipedia editathon was held at the Brooklyn Museum last summer and was
connected to a museum exhibit there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/Brooklyn_Museum_July2017#Wikidata_task_list

- BLT-tagged items might logically include attendees of events but
typically that is not the case
- BLT-tagged items are typically curated with the assistance of the
institution hosting the event, who have expertise in the local and regional
artist community, and can provide BLT with a list of underrepresented
visual artists from the African diaspora. It is often difficult for this
population to have even local or regional coverage in press and scholarly
works, so this curation is even more important. Heather and Jina (who
founded BLT) will then vet this list and create Wikidata items, tagging
them as BLT, location, date (to add to a Listeria task list) and begin the
process of establishing notability on Wikidata in preparation for Wikipedia
articles
- BLT is a two person outreach initiative made up of Heather (a visual
artist) and Jina (an artist and professor). They have minimal grant funding
for the Black Lunch Table project from outside sources that they list here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/About
There is a studio assistant who is updating Wikidata items. Gerard did the
first heavy lifting pass, and I have assisted with the editathon task
lists. But that's it.
- Wikipedia is just one part of the BLT project

- This Listeria task list model is being used in various projects
-- Plants And People (New York Botanical Garden and various Council on
Botanical and Horticultural Libraries

 participate in this initiative):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/PlantsAndPeople/Lists_of_Articles
-- Colección Patricia Phelps de Cisneros:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/Colección_Patricia_Phelps_de_Cisneros/Tasks
-- WIKIarte: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WIKIarte/Tasks
-- Women of Rock Oral History Project:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/Women_of_Rock_Oral_History_Project/Tasks

Also using this idea:
-- Women in Red
-- 100 Women BBC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GerardM/100_Women_-_BBC
-- quite a few by Jane023 :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Lists_based_on_Wikidata=Jane023%2FBiosphere+reserves#mw-pages

All of this information is helpful in providing context. But really, the
question is whether or not Wikidata is okay with integration into Wikipedia
outreach. Is Wikidata a sacrosanct island of pristine metadata that is
intended only for scientific scholarly research queries, trivia, etc. Or is
Wikidata flexible and willing to engage with the various projects in new
and exciting ways?

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 8:34 PM, Charles 

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

Jane,

I think the narrow definition of catalog and its use as a unique identifier
to collocate outreach initiatives might be the issue here.

Not asking you to be responsible for any outreach projects at all. I think
that is very clear.

Don't appreciate your comment on Wikidata editing. Through this project
work I am improving engagement to Wikidata by Wikipedia editors. This work
makes Wikidata a holistic part of the editathon and outreach process. It's
both productive and valuable. If none of these facts are clear then I am
not sure what else to say on the matter.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 4:55 PM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I object to your use of the catalog property to link to something that is
> not a catalog. I don't see why my objection leads you to expect me to offer
> an alternative way to track your project. I am not responsible for your
> project and don't understand what it is. If you can't understand that then
> you should not probably not be editing Wikidata.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 2:33 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jane,
>>
>> Actually, "the rest of your email is irrelevant" illustrates the
>> problem. I am a bit baffled at this statement.
>>
>> The rest of the email is the *whole point*, and dismissing it
>> illustrates the actual problem here. If Wikidatans don't want to hear about
>> or learn about the context of the problem that needs to be solved, then
>> what's the point of anything here? I was trying to provide background and
>> overview of this problem in my email. If you aren't interested in learning
>> about or hearing about what is trying to be done, then a non-indepth
>> understanding of the issue won't work to provide a solution.
>>
>> This is not a casual, rigid WIKI:Rulez situation. The overarching effort
>> is a goal to integrate Wikidata into the Wikipedia outreach and page
>> improvement / page creation process for multiple projects. We are trying to
>> solve a problem with Wikidata. We are trying to use Wikidata in an outreach
>> project in a new way, a way that previously *had* consensus and *had*
>> implementation that was effective and super functional. If the consensus
>> won't meet community standards, please help us solve the problem by helping
>> us to figure out another solution.
>>
>> The bottom line is that we need to be able to tag items with a unique
>> identifier to connect the Wikidata items to various outreach initiatives.
>> In some way. If that basic functionality is deemed to be not allowed on
>> Wikidata, is deemed to threaten and weaken Wikidata metadata (the latest
>> complaint, along with accusations of the project work being original
>> research, which is a newly creatively inaccurate characterization), if it
>> is deemed not welcome, then let us know. It will negatively affect project
>> outreach and integrated holistic engagement of Wikipedia editing with
>> Wikidata but if that's the bottom line and community consensus, let us know
>> before further work is done. None of us want to waste our time here if the
>> free digital labor is not welcome.
>>
>> - Erika
>>
>>
>> *Erika Herzog*
>> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 3:18 AM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes to exactly this part of your email: "Gerard and I thought we had
>>> consensus on this, but apparently not. We need to find some solution that
>>> will address all concerns."
>>> The rest of your email is irrelevant to using the property for "catalog"
>>> on person items on Wikidata when there is no catalog. Please just publish
>>> the catalog somewhere and then link to it from your "Black Lunch Table"
>>> item. If you don't have a catalog and the project itself is building the
>>> catalog, then this property is definitely the wrong way to go. I have tried
>>> to read through the material you made available, but I still don't see why
>>> this project needs any special property at all when you can create listeria
>>> lists from unordered lists of item numbers. If you have a list anywhere on
>>> a Wikipedia project, you can also run queries using Petscan.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> First off, thanks so much for the support and assistance in
>>>> understanding the work being done here. T

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

Hi LeadSongDog,

It's not a situation of "has to be done that way" but is about the desired
functionality that many outreach projects who want to use the integration
of Wikidata for notability, article scaffolding, and SPARQL queries (that
can be used to generate location and gender specific task lists in Listeria
tables) for both editathon and other potential project work. We had a
problem, which was Black Lunch Table wanted to query its editathon task
lists in an automated way, both by location and gender, as the initiative
is geographically diverse and sometimes focuses on the gender gap. This was
the solution, which was reached with consensus. If we can answer that
question another way, that would be great.

I have no answer for the reference question as I have pretty much abandoned
references on Wikidata until WikiCite finds a solution that allows end
users to add bibliographic metadata to citations that is similar to the
WikiMarkup form that is integrated in RefToolbar 2.0. Quite frankly it's
clear references are way too time consuming and are an exercise in
recreating the wheel, especially if you edit Wikipedia (which I suspect
most Wikidatans don't do). One exception: I typically add references to
support gender and ethnicity where there might be some questions or
concerns.

Just because I don't add references -- which on the BLP / biographic
entries that I typically edit don't typically get populated except the
pretty much useless English Wikipedia reference #bellybutton -- doesn't
mean I don't understand them. I have a master's in library science and am
obsessed with citations and as folks know try to generate between 10 to 20
citations for new articles. #Overkill #YesIKnow

re: "Temperature" comment? Over 2,000 manually edited and curated items
were affected, and this impacts negatively on what I believe is a really
great ability to proselytize and positively impact many outreach projects.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 12:30 PM, <leads...@webname.com> wrote:

> Erika,
> You say "we need to be able to tag items with a unique identifier to
> connect the Wikidata items to various outreach initiatives". You don't say
> why it has to be done that way, vice some other mechanism. Nor do you say
> why it has to be done without a reference. Making these things clear would
> help to reduce the temperature of this discussion.
> - LeadSongDog
> *Sent:* Friday, January 05, 2018 at 8:33 AM
> *From:* "Brill Lyle" <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "Discussion list for the Wikidata project." <
> wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach
> Hi Jane,
>
> Actually, "the rest of your email is irrelevant" illustrates the
> problem. I am a bit baffled at this statement.
>
> The rest of the email is the *whole point*, and dismissing it illustrates
> the actual problem here. If Wikidatans don't want to hear about or learn
> about the context of the problem that needs to be solved, then what's the
> point of anything here? I was trying to provide background and overview of
> this problem in my email. If you aren't interested in learning about or
> hearing about what is trying to be done, then a non-indepth understanding
> of the issue won't work to provide a solution.
>
> This is not a casual, rigid WIKI:Rulez situation. The overarching effort
> is a goal to integrate Wikidata into the Wikipedia outreach and page
> improvement / page creation process for multiple projects. We are trying to
> solve a problem with Wikidata. We are trying to use Wikidata in an outreach
> project in a new way, a way that previously *had* consensus and *had*
> implementation that was effective and super functional. If the consensus
> won't meet community standards, please help us solve the problem by helping
> us to figure out another solution.
>
> The bottom line is that we need to be able to tag items with a unique
> identifier to connect the Wikidata items to various outreach initiatives.
> In some way. If that basic functionality is deemed to be not allowed on
> Wikidata, is deemed to threaten and weaken Wikidata metadata (the latest
> complaint, along with accusations of the project work being original
> research, which is a newly creatively inaccurate characterization), if it
> is deemed not welcome, then let us know. It will negatively affect project
> outreach and integrated holistic engagement of Wikipedia editing with
> Wikidata but if that's the bottom line and community consensus, let us know
> before further work is done. None of us want to waste our time here if the
> free digital labor is not welcome.
>
> - Erika
>
>
> *Erika Herzog*
> 

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

I am confused at this statement as it seems very chicken-egg circular:
"I still don't see why this project needs any special property at all when
you can create listeria lists from unordered lists of item numbers. If you
have a list anywhere on a Wikipedia project, you can also run queries using
Petscan."

Where exactly do we get this unordered list of item numbers? So we generate
a spreadsheet of Q numbers of Wikipedia entries? That lives on various
language Wikipedias or on a project page somewhere? Instead of the language
neutral and centralized Wikidata?

How exactly does that work? How do we maintain that dataset in an efficient
and non-manual way? How does it interact with Wikidata?

I really don't understand this glib explanation, and how it solves the
needs the projects have for task lists.

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 3:18 AM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes to exactly this part of your email: "Gerard and I thought we had
> consensus on this, but apparently not. We need to find some solution that
> will address all concerns."
> The rest of your email is irrelevant to using the property for "catalog"
> on person items on Wikidata when there is no catalog. Please just publish
> the catalog somewhere and then link to it from your "Black Lunch Table"
> item. If you don't have a catalog and the project itself is building the
> catalog, then this property is definitely the wrong way to go. I have tried
> to read through the material you made available, but I still don't see why
> this project needs any special property at all when you can create listeria
> lists from unordered lists of item numbers. If you have a list anywhere on
> a Wikipedia project, you can also run queries using Petscan.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> First off, thanks so much for the support and assistance in understanding
>> the work being done here. Thanks to those editors who restored the
>> wholesale deletion of the catalog property.
>>
>> Secondly: While the Black Lunch Table is unique in both its scope and
>> outreach, other projects are using the category in actual "real-world
>> things." They are not internal WikiProjects.
>>
>> An example of this is the GLAM project for Colección Patricia Phelps de
>> Cisneros (CPPC). CPPC is a large and active private Latin American art
>> collection that is improving coverage of Latin American artists on the
>> projects, with the intention of adding at minimum articles in English,
>> Spanish, and Portuguese. Which is why Wikidata is so helpful, for it's
>> language neutral interchangeability of the scaffolding of metadata and the
>> establishment of notability via VIAF and other identifiers.
>>
>> The CPPC GLAM project has multiple task lists and SPARQL queries in
>> Listeria tables. CPPC also plans on doing an image donation to the Commons
>> in the next 6-12 months as the project develops and as full metadata is
>> collected and implemented in the most robust Wikidata-centric way. But
>> first the publications and artist metadata needed to be populated.
>>
>> Here's the task lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> Wikipedia:GLAM/Colección_Patricia_Phelps_de_Cisneros/Tasks
>>
>> This is not a WikiProject, but is a GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives,
>> Museums) initiative.
>>
>> So should GLAM outreach and Wikipedia:Meetup projects like BLT have
>> something specially created to cover this type of outreach?
>>
>> I believe that other potential outreach institutional partners would want
>> to be implementing usage of Wikidata in this way as well. With this
>> Wikidata-in-a-Box approach, the idea is to expand and improve upon common
>> outreach requirements (like task lists), setting up a replicable structure
>> and process that reduces administrative burden and doesn't require
>> re-inventing the wheel over and over again. Because the fact is that there
>> is definitely an exponential need for this work -- and this need is only
>> going to increase and expand in scope, hopefully. As long as things like
>> what happened here don't happen again and discourage this work and destroy
>> outreach efforts.
>>
>> So it would help to have consensus of some type to support this outreach
>> going forward.
>>
>> Gerard and I thought we had consensus on this, but apparently not. We
>> need to find some solution that will address all concerns.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> - Erika
>>
>> *Erika Herzog*
>> Wikipedia *User:

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Jane,

Actually, "the rest of your email is irrelevant" illustrates the problem. I
am a bit baffled at this statement.

The rest of the email is the *whole point*, and dismissing it illustrates
the actual problem here. If Wikidatans don't want to hear about or learn
about the context of the problem that needs to be solved, then what's the
point of anything here? I was trying to provide background and overview of
this problem in my email. If you aren't interested in learning about or
hearing about what is trying to be done, then a non-indepth understanding
of the issue won't work to provide a solution.

This is not a casual, rigid WIKI:Rulez situation. The overarching effort is
a goal to integrate Wikidata into the Wikipedia outreach and page
improvement / page creation process for multiple projects. We are trying to
solve a problem with Wikidata. We are trying to use Wikidata in an outreach
project in a new way, a way that previously *had* consensus and *had*
implementation that was effective and super functional. If the consensus
won't meet community standards, please help us solve the problem by helping
us to figure out another solution.

The bottom line is that we need to be able to tag items with a unique
identifier to connect the Wikidata items to various outreach initiatives.
In some way. If that basic functionality is deemed to be not allowed on
Wikidata, is deemed to threaten and weaken Wikidata metadata (the latest
complaint, along with accusations of the project work being original
research, which is a newly creatively inaccurate characterization), if it
is deemed not welcome, then let us know. It will negatively affect project
outreach and integrated holistic engagement of Wikipedia editing with
Wikidata but if that's the bottom line and community consensus, let us know
before further work is done. None of us want to waste our time here if the
free digital labor is not welcome.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 3:18 AM, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes to exactly this part of your email: "Gerard and I thought we had
> consensus on this, but apparently not. We need to find some solution that
> will address all concerns."
> The rest of your email is irrelevant to using the property for "catalog"
> on person items on Wikidata when there is no catalog. Please just publish
> the catalog somewhere and then link to it from your "Black Lunch Table"
> item. If you don't have a catalog and the project itself is building the
> catalog, then this property is definitely the wrong way to go. I have tried
> to read through the material you made available, but I still don't see why
> this project needs any special property at all when you can create listeria
> lists from unordered lists of item numbers. If you have a list anywhere on
> a Wikipedia project, you can also run queries using Petscan.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> First off, thanks so much for the support and assistance in understanding
>> the work being done here. Thanks to those editors who restored the
>> wholesale deletion of the catalog property.
>>
>> Secondly: While the Black Lunch Table is unique in both its scope and
>> outreach, other projects are using the category in actual "real-world
>> things." They are not internal WikiProjects.
>>
>> An example of this is the GLAM project for Colección Patricia Phelps de
>> Cisneros (CPPC). CPPC is a large and active private Latin American art
>> collection that is improving coverage of Latin American artists on the
>> projects, with the intention of adding at minimum articles in English,
>> Spanish, and Portuguese. Which is why Wikidata is so helpful, for it's
>> language neutral interchangeability of the scaffolding of metadata and the
>> establishment of notability via VIAF and other identifiers.
>>
>> The CPPC GLAM project has multiple task lists and SPARQL queries in
>> Listeria tables. CPPC also plans on doing an image donation to the Commons
>> in the next 6-12 months as the project develops and as full metadata is
>> collected and implemented in the most robust Wikidata-centric way. But
>> first the publications and artist metadata needed to be populated.
>>
>> Here's the task lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> Wikipedia:GLAM/Colección_Patricia_Phelps_de_Cisneros/Tasks
>>
>> This is not a WikiProject, but is a GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives,
>> Museums) initiative.
>>
>> So should GLAM outreach and Wikipedia:Meetup projects like BLT have
>> something specially created to cover this type of outreach?
>>
>> I believe

Re: [Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

First off, thanks so much for the support and assistance in understanding
the work being done here. Thanks to those editors who restored the
wholesale deletion of the catalog property.

Secondly: While the Black Lunch Table is unique in both its scope and
outreach, other projects are using the category in actual "real-world
things." They are not internal WikiProjects.

An example of this is the GLAM project for Colección Patricia Phelps de
Cisneros (CPPC). CPPC is a large and active private Latin American art
collection that is improving coverage of Latin American artists on the
projects, with the intention of adding at minimum articles in English,
Spanish, and Portuguese. Which is why Wikidata is so helpful, for it's
language neutral interchangeability of the scaffolding of metadata and the
establishment of notability via VIAF and other identifiers.

The CPPC GLAM project has multiple task lists and SPARQL queries in
Listeria tables. CPPC also plans on doing an image donation to the Commons
in the next 6-12 months as the project develops and as full metadata is
collected and implemented in the most robust Wikidata-centric way. But
first the publications and artist metadata needed to be populated.

Here's the task lists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/Colección_Patricia_Phelps_de_Cisneros/Tasks

This is not a WikiProject, but is a GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives,
Museums) initiative.

So should GLAM outreach and Wikipedia:Meetup projects like BLT have
something specially created to cover this type of outreach?

I believe that other potential outreach institutional partners would want
to be implementing usage of Wikidata in this way as well. With this
Wikidata-in-a-Box approach, the idea is to expand and improve upon common
outreach requirements (like task lists), setting up a replicable structure
and process that reduces administrative burden and doesn't require
re-inventing the wheel over and over again. Because the fact is that there
is definitely an exponential need for this work -- and this need is only
going to increase and expand in scope, hopefully. As long as things like
what happened here don't happen again and discourage this work and destroy
outreach efforts.

So it would help to have consensus of some type to support this outreach
going forward.

Gerard and I thought we had consensus on this, but apparently not. We need
to find some solution that will address all concerns.

Thanks again,

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:21 AM, James Heald  wrote:

> Better to use P4570, or a new bespoke property, since the things these
> people are being tagged to be part of, or participants in, like "Black
> Lunch Table", are not external real-world things, but internal wiki-world
> projects.
>
> It is useful to maintain a distinction between the two -- it helps to
> avoid the confusion that has been the root of the issue with P972.
>
>  -- James.
>
>
>
> On 04/01/2018 16:10, Thad Guidry wrote:
>
>> "relatedness" or "tagging" is typically handled generically in Wikidata
>> through the use of "part of" and "has part" properties.
>> They work terrifically well to apply some generic classification needs
>> such
>> as those of the Black Lunch Table efforts.
>>
>> So, an alternative to the current modeling could be...
>>
>> Are they only persons ?  if so, mark them as "participant of" ->
>> "Q28781198" Black Lunch Table
>> Are the topics needing some "tagging" for classification sometimes more
>> than persons ?  if so, mark them as "part of" -> "Q28781198" Black Lunch
>> Table
>>
>> -Thad
>>
>>
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[Wikidata] Wikidata + Wikipedia outreach

[Brill Lyle]

So User:Multichill has taken it upon himself to delete all of the catalog
entries for the Black Lunch Table. One of the first if not only successful
implementations of Wikidata as a task list for Wikipedia.

There are other initiatives also using catalog, which I assume will also be
deleted.

Beyond the fact that this destroys hundreds of hours of work, it also
negatively impacts outreach.

If there was an alternative to catalog that could be used that would be one
thing. If there was discussion about this action, that would also be one
thing. But this wholesale destruction of outreach is unacceptable.

https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Multichill==500=Multichill

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Multichill#Black_Lunch_Table

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P972#Abuse_of_this_property_for_original_research

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions#Artist_of_Black_Lunch_Table

I am beside myself. I have been heavily evangelizing Wikidata in its
integration with Wikipedia, especially multiple language Wikipedias.

This was such a hostile unconstructive act, I am beside myself.

This catalog tag was meant to be used to support various En Wiki outreach
initiatives which address gender gap and diversity on the projects. What
has happened here has very seriously negatively impacted that work.

I am asking for support here. If the property was not okay, which after
much discussion there seemed to be a consensus it was fine, then the
opportunity to find other solutions should have been made, versus deleting
all that work.

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *
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Re: [Wikidata] Identifiers: Multiple VIAF numbers

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the linkage. Very interesting.

Would you mind pinging me off list when/if the page is updated?

I will update the VIAF page on En Wikipedia, I think

Thanks again!

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyo...@oclc.org> wrote:

> Hi Erika,
>
>
> The team page needs to be updated, but I'll pass the thread along to them:
>
>
> http://www.oclc.org/research/activities/viaf.html
>
> Jeff
> --
> *From:* Wikidata <wikidata-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of
> Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 3:56:05 AM
> *To:* Discussion list for the Wikidata project.
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikidata] Identifiers: Multiple VIAF numbers
>
> Thanks Thad. That was very helpful.
>
> So Jeff, if you aren't the contact from OCLC who works with VIAF, can you
> tell us who is, and if they have any plans to address this issue? :-)
>
> Best,
>
> - Erika
>
>
> *Erika Herzog*
> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Young,Jeff (OR) <jyo...@oclc.org> wrote:
>
> I agree that “named entity” makes more sense. I’ll pass that edit
> suggestion along to the folks who maintain the page.
>
>
>
> Here is a blog post from 2011 where we talk about remodeling VIAF into a
> coherent hub-and-spoke model revolving around the entity itself.
>
>
>
> http://outgoing.typepad.com/outgoing/2011/04/changes-to-viafs-rdf.html
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Identifiers: Multiple VIAF numbers

[Brill Lyle]

Thanks Thad. That was very helpful.

So Jeff, if you aren't the contact from OCLC who works with VIAF, can you
tell us who is, and if they have any plans to address this issue? :-)

Best,

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Young,Jeff (OR)  wrote:

> I agree that “named entity” makes more sense. I’ll pass that edit
> suggestion along to the folks who maintain the page.
>
>
>
> Here is a blog post from 2011 where we talk about remodeling VIAF into a
> coherent hub-and-spoke model revolving around the entity itself.
>
>
>
> http://outgoing.typepad.com/outgoing/2011/04/changes-to-viafs-rdf.html
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
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[Wikidata] Identifiers: Multiple VIAF numbers

[Brill Lyle]

Hi all,

I understand this is probably outside the scope of Wikidata-l, but I am
looking for advice in what I am noticing is a somewhat re-occuring issue
with VIAF identifiers.

For a lot of items, I am finding 2 or more VIAF numbers for BLP subjects.

Recently I've found up to 4 VIAF numbers:
- https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q45311838
- https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q45311745

Is there coordination between Wikidata and VIAF that is automated and fixes
things like this.

I don't want to remove some of these VIAF numbers as they are tied to
"legit" authority bodies. I understand there is often a "main" VIAF
number...

Thanks in advance for any assistance and/or advice with this.

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *
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Re: [Wikidata] Recoin2: New version of relative completeness status indicator for all entities

[Brill Lyle]

I have just reinstalled Recoin2 and it works really well. No delay or lag
like before -- apologies that it was unfortunate timing re: Wikidata having
issues (that have since been resolved).

Looking forward to using this tool on an ongoing basis. Well done.

Best,

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Simon,
> >
> > That makes total sense given what the indicator is doing.
> >
> > I think probably at issue here / not helping matters is the significant
> drag
> > and delay I'm having with editing Wikidata itself. Until I started
> editing a
> > bit more heavily today I didn't realize just how bad the Wikidata
> inputting
> > is recently. There's a definite drag. It's periodic and inconsistent but
> > it's definitely there. It might also be my crappy NYC internet but I'm
> not
> > sure. I just know was making updating items on Wikidata very slow, to a
> > noticeable degree.
> >
> > Please definitely let me know if there's an update, etc.. It's a great
> idea
> > and I'm excited and very supportive. I hope that comes through here.
>
> Yeah something wonky is going on. Investigation is happening here:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T182322
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Recoin2: New version of relative completeness status indicator for all entities

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Simon,

That makes total sense given what the indicator is doing.

I think probably at issue here / not helping matters is the significant
drag and delay I'm having with editing Wikidata itself. Until I started
editing a bit more heavily today I didn't realize just how bad the Wikidata
inputting is recently. There's a definite drag. It's periodic and
inconsistent but it's definitely there. It might also be my crappy NYC
internet but I'm not sure. I just know was making updating items on
Wikidata very slow, to a noticeable degree.

Please definitely let me know if there's an update, etc.. It's a great idea
and I'm excited and very supportive. I hope that comes through here.

Best,

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 5:22 AM, Simon Razniewski <srazn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Brill,
>
> Great you like the idea! Regarding speed, unfortunately the current delay
> is unavoidable when the indicator is based on live data. There appears to
> be a conflict between being up-to-date (-> live computation) and being fast
> (-> precomputation), we'll look whether there is a way to have fast, maybe
> via triggers on changes.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
> On 6 December 2017 at 23:45, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Simon,
>>
>> I installed Recoin and really like the idea of this indicator. I think
>> it's very useful. Unfortunately, I am seeing a real delay in the indicator
>> populating, with a significant delay of the full page browser refresh. Is
>> that something that can be improved?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> - Erika
>>
>>
>> *Erika Herzog*
>> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:01 AM, Simon Razniewski <srazn...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear community,
>>>
>>> We are happy to announce version 2 of Recoin, the relative completeness
>>> status indicator <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ls1g/Recoin2>.
>>> Recoin adds a color-coded progress bar to entity pages showing how
>>> extensive information about the entity is in comparison with similar
>>> entities.
>>>
>>> In the new version, Recoin is rolled out to virtually all entities in
>>> Wikidata (see e.g. Q173634
>>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Abbeyroad.png>, Q565400
>>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maxplanck-institute.png> or
>>> Q15074414 <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kompatscher-red.png>
>>> ). The core version uses only Wikibase properties, but based on earlier
>>> feedback there is also a version specifically for ID properties only.
>>>
>>> We think Recoin can be of great help for quickly getting impressions of
>>> data quality about entities. We look very much forward to your feedback.
>>> Also, if you support making a gadget out of please get in contact with us.
>>>
>>> More information can be found on the tools page at
>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ls1g/Recoin2.
>>> <https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ls1g/Recoin2>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Simon Razniewski/Ls1g
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Recoin2: New version of relative completeness status indicator for all entities

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Simon,

I installed Recoin and really like the idea of this indicator. I think it's
very useful. Unfortunately, I am seeing a real delay in the indicator
populating, with a significant delay of the full page browser refresh. Is
that something that can be improved?

Best,

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:01 AM, Simon Razniewski  wrote:

> Dear community,
>
> We are happy to announce version 2 of Recoin, the relative completeness
> status indicator .
> Recoin adds a color-coded progress bar to entity pages showing how
> extensive information about the entity is in comparison with similar
> entities.
>
> In the new version, Recoin is rolled out to virtually all entities in
> Wikidata (see e.g. Q173634
> , Q565400
>  or
> Q15074414 
> ). The core version uses only Wikibase properties, but based on earlier
> feedback there is also a version specifically for ID properties only.
>
> We think Recoin can be of great help for quickly getting impressions of
> data quality about entities. We look very much forward to your feedback.
> Also, if you support making a gadget out of please get in contact with us.
>
> More information can be found on the tools page at
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Ls1g/Recoin2.
> 
>
> Best regards,
>
> Simon Razniewski/Ls1g
>
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Re: [Wikidata] [wikicite-discuss] Cleaning up bibliographic collections in Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

In addition to the Black Lunch Table project, which focuses on Visual
artists from the African Diaspora, that James mentions below -- the GLAM
projects for Colección Patricia Phelps de Cisneros ("CPPC") and WIKIarte,
which focus on Latin American art, are both using the catalog P972 as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GLAM/Colección_Patricia_Phelps_de_Cisneros/Tasks#Wikidata_task_lists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WIKIarte/Tasks#Wikidata_task_lists

I want to be transparent about this usage. It has been incredibly
impactful, and as CPPC prepares for a Commons donation of public domain
images -- that are artworks -- and that have Creator templates and are
fully Wikidata-ified, this catalog will be mission critical to tracking and
querying the items.

Without this catalog property, it would be impossible to collocate the
various projects. Especially as the metadata is not a large dataset, but is
being painfully and manually input, often one by one. The metadata from the
various sources is not in a dataset, and is constantly moving, changing,
and expanding.

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 8:22 PM,  wrote:

> Dario's 1-3 is fine by me. Rather than P361 (part of), I think - as James
> Heald - that P972 (catalog) would be better. It is also used for artworks,
> for instance,
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q44015154 P972
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42661788
>
> I see P972 and the associated identifier P528 as a kind of lightweight
> external identifier.
>
> If the external dataset is available in RDF, then I suppose
> skos:exactMatch (P2888) can be used.
>
> For some items available in other databases I have used "external data
> available at" P1325. But the semantics of that require some data at the
> other end.
>
> ---
> Finn Årup Nielsen
> http://people.compute.dtu.dk/faan/
>
>
>
> On 11/25/2017 02:16 PM, James Heald wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> When a somewhat similar issue came up, re how to artists that were of
>> interest the the "Black Lunch Table" project
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q28781198 that works on coverage of visual
>> artists of the African diaspora, the solution adopted (after quite a
>> vigorous debate at Project Chat) was to use property P972 "catalog" with
>> the value Q28781198 to mark artists that were of interest to the project.
>>
>> A similar approach could be used here, if a project has a list of works
>> of interest, that it would be valuable to record inclusion in.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> James.
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Query Assistance

[Brill Lyle]

It is very logical. You're right. I understand this now that I see it
built

Ah, the key is the wdt:P276*/wdt:P131* wd:Q771 That captures the Boston
and environs. This is great.

What does "BIND ('1' AS ?ma)" mean explicitly. I saw on the User Manual it
binds together location -- but I want to be able to customize this for the
various locales -- and be able to explain this to Heather so she can do it
herself as well

Thanks so much! I really appreciate this help.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 6:37 PM, James Heald <j.he...@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

> Query with a column for employers as well:
> (also slightly simplifed, structurally).
>
>http://tinyurl.com/kz65akx
>
> It does in fact add a few more hits -- as Jan predicted, mostly for
> university employers.
>
>   -- James.
>
>
>
> On 09/04/2017 23:30, James Heald wrote:
>
>> This query may start to be more or less what you are looking for
>>
>>   http://tinyurl.com/lclgpgx
>>
>> It's actually pretty simple to understand if you (a) start in the
>> middle, then (b) work through what each line means.
>>
>> I haven't added employer location, though it would only take a couple of
>> seconds to do; though as Jan says, it might not add many more hits as
>> the data on the relevant employer location might be far from complete.
>>
>> (Property P937 "work location" is also available, and sometimes used for
>> artists; but even for artists the data is very very sparsely populated).
>>
>> Similarly there may well be fewer hits than there should be, because the
>> data for place of birth, death, education, residence etc may simply not
>> have been added to Wikidata.  But this does let you see what we do have,
>> so I hope it is of help.
>>
>> All best regards,
>>
>>James.
>>
>>
>> On 09/04/2017 21:53, Brill Lyle wrote:
>>
>>> Agree.
>>>
>>> Employed by is something that might complement the "main" query.
>>>
>>> For example, Tim Berners-Lee, employed by MIT's Computer Science and
>>> Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Query Assistance

[Brill Lyle]

Agree.

Employed by is something that might complement the "main" query.

For example, Tim Berners-Lee, employed by MIT's Computer Science and
Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, etc.


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Jan Ainali <j...@aina.li> wrote:

> Good, that makes it a lot clearer (but unfortunately a bit harder, one
> specific or all would be simple).
>
> Employed by is also possible, but might not give the results you seek. Or
> perhaps you will if they are mainly employed by universities, but in
> general I don't believe many companies have all their local offices as
> items (yet). E.g.a big bank that has at least one office in every major
> city in a country probably only have an item for the company (and maybe
> headquarter).
>
> Med vänliga hälsningar
> Jan Ainali
> http://ainali.com
>
> 2017-04-09 21:47 GMT+02:00 Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>:
>
>> I hope it is possible to do this query. It will be very helpful for
>> administering task lists for each event.
>>
>> The idea is that all of the different information:
>> - residence (P551)
>> - place of birth (P19)
>> - place of death (P20)
>> - educated at (P69)
>> and maybe
>> - employed by
>>
>> would be query-able by location.
>>
>> So the output would be any of the above elements matching Boston and
>> environs.
>>
>> It would be a way to parse the master task list for anyone connected to
>> Boston and environs. So then Heather can curate the task list to fit the
>> editathon / event at Boston University.
>>
>> That would mean any or all of the elements would locate the subject in
>> Boston and environs and/or at Boston University.
>>
>> - Erika
>>
>>
>> *Erika Herzog*
>> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Jan Ainali <j...@aina.li> wrote:
>>
>>> What is that you want to restrict by place?
>>> Place of birth, place of death, residence or where they were educated?
>>> Or should all these be restricted or should the restriction be that at
>>> least one of them should be there (or some other combination)?
>>> It is probably doable, but more information is needed.
>>>
>>> Med vänliga hälsningar
>>> Jan Ainali
>>> http://ainali.com
>>>
>>> 2017-04-09 18:54 GMT+02:00 Erika Herzog aka BrillLyle <
>>> wp.brilll...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Is there a way to restrict the query to all geographic places in
>>>> Massachusetts possibly? Or even just Boston? And/or Boston University?
>>>>
>>>> I am glad for the query below but it somewhat replicates the Listeria
>>>> table we have set up currently, so it's helpful but at the same time a bit
>>>> more faceted searching would help.
>>>>
>>>> Heather will be doing this query by geographic location depending on
>>>> where she is holding the Black Lunch Table editathons. Right now they are
>>>> only in locations in North America but they will be potentially expanding
>>>> to South Africa and Europe soon.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again -- and in advance if this query is possible.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> - Erika
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 8, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Nicolas VIGNERON <
>>>> vigneron.nico...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Somtehing like this ? https://query.wikidata.org/#SE
>>>> LECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3FgenderLabel%20%3Foccupati
>>>> onLabel%20%3FplaceBirthLabel%20%3FplaceDeathLabel%20%3Fresid
>>>> enceLabel%20%3FeducationLabel%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%
>>>> 20wdt%3AP972%20wd%3AQ28781198%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%
>>>> 3Fitem%20wdt%3AP21%20%3Fgender%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONA
>>>> L%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP106%20%3Foccupation%20%7D%
>>>> 0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP19%20%3FplaceB
>>>> irth%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP20%
>>>> 20%3FplaceDeath%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%
>>>> 20wdt%3AP551%20%3Fresidence%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%
>>>> 20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP69%20%3Feducation%20%7D%0A%20%
>>>> 20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%
>>>> 20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22%20%7D%0A%7D
>>>>
>>>> Cdl

Re: [Wikidata] Query Assistance

[Brill Lyle]

The output would end up on a page like this one, in a Listeria table for
the event(s)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/Boston_Univ_Apr2017_1#Wikidata_task_list


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hope it is possible to do this query. It will be very helpful for
> administering task lists for each event.
>
> The idea is that all of the different information:
> - residence (P551)
> - place of birth (P19)
> - place of death (P20)
> - educated at (P69)
> and maybe
> - employed by
>
> would be query-able by location.
>
> So the output would be any of the above elements matching Boston and
> environs.
>
> It would be a way to parse the master task list for anyone connected to
> Boston and environs. So then Heather can curate the task list to fit the
> editathon / event at Boston University.
>
> That would mean any or all of the elements would locate the subject in
> Boston and environs and/or at Boston University.
>
> - Erika
>
>
> *Erika Herzog*
> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Jan Ainali <j...@aina.li> wrote:
>
>> What is that you want to restrict by place?
>> Place of birth, place of death, residence or where they were educated?
>> Or should all these be restricted or should the restriction be that at
>> least one of them should be there (or some other combination)?
>> It is probably doable, but more information is needed.
>>
>> Med vänliga hälsningar
>> Jan Ainali
>> http://ainali.com
>>
>> 2017-04-09 18:54 GMT+02:00 Erika Herzog aka BrillLyle <
>> wp.brilll...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Is there a way to restrict the query to all geographic places in
>>> Massachusetts possibly? Or even just Boston? And/or Boston University?
>>>
>>> I am glad for the query below but it somewhat replicates the Listeria
>>> table we have set up currently, so it's helpful but at the same time a bit
>>> more faceted searching would help.
>>>
>>> Heather will be doing this query by geographic location depending on
>>> where she is holding the Black Lunch Table editathons. Right now they are
>>> only in locations in North America but they will be potentially expanding
>>> to South Africa and Europe soon.
>>>
>>> Thanks again -- and in advance if this query is possible.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> - Erika
>>>
>>> On Apr 8, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Nicolas VIGNERON <vigneron.nico...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Somtehing like this ? https://query.wikidata.org/#SE
>>> LECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3FgenderLabel%20%3Foccupati
>>> onLabel%20%3FplaceBirthLabel%20%3FplaceDeathLabel%20%
>>> 3FresidenceLabel%20%3FeducationLabel%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%
>>> 3Fitem%20wdt%3AP972%20wd%3AQ28781198%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%
>>> 20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP21%20%3Fgender%20%7D%0A%20%
>>> 20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP106%20%3Foccupation%
>>> 20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP19%20%
>>> 3FplaceBirth%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%
>>> 20wdt%3AP20%20%3FplaceDeath%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%
>>> 20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP551%20%3Fresidence%20%7D%0A%20%
>>> 20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP69%20%3Feducation%20%
>>> 7D%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%
>>> 3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22%20%7D%0A%7D
>>>
>>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>>
>>> 2017-04-08 3:39 GMT+02:00 Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Hi there,
>>>>
>>>> I need to do a Wikidata query of the Black Lunch Table task list that
>>>> includes location-specific faceted searching:
>>>>
>>>> So for the upcoming Boston event, would like to be able to search by
>>>> - residence (P551)
>>>> - place of birth (P19)
>>>> - place of death (P20)
>>>> - educated at (P69)
>>>> and maybe
>>>> - employed by
>>>>
>>>> Here's the Listeria table:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_T
>>>> able/Lists_of_Articles#Black_Lunch_Table_Project_Wikidata_task_list
>>>>
>>>> It would be for this event:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_T
>>>> 

Re: [Wikidata] Query Assistance

[Brill Lyle]

I hope it is possible to do this query. It will be very helpful for
administering task lists for each event.

The idea is that all of the different information:
- residence (P551)
- place of birth (P19)
- place of death (P20)
- educated at (P69)
and maybe
- employed by

would be query-able by location.

So the output would be any of the above elements matching Boston and
environs.

It would be a way to parse the master task list for anyone connected to
Boston and environs. So then Heather can curate the task list to fit the
editathon / event at Boston University.

That would mean any or all of the elements would locate the subject in
Boston and environs and/or at Boston University.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Jan Ainali <j...@aina.li> wrote:

> What is that you want to restrict by place?
> Place of birth, place of death, residence or where they were educated?
> Or should all these be restricted or should the restriction be that at
> least one of them should be there (or some other combination)?
> It is probably doable, but more information is needed.
>
> Med vänliga hälsningar
> Jan Ainali
> http://ainali.com
>
> 2017-04-09 18:54 GMT+02:00 Erika Herzog aka BrillLyle <
> wp.brilll...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Is there a way to restrict the query to all geographic places in
>> Massachusetts possibly? Or even just Boston? And/or Boston University?
>>
>> I am glad for the query below but it somewhat replicates the Listeria
>> table we have set up currently, so it's helpful but at the same time a bit
>> more faceted searching would help.
>>
>> Heather will be doing this query by geographic location depending on
>> where she is holding the Black Lunch Table editathons. Right now they are
>> only in locations in North America but they will be potentially expanding
>> to South Africa and Europe soon.
>>
>> Thanks again -- and in advance if this query is possible.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> - Erika
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Nicolas VIGNERON <vigneron.nico...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Somtehing like this ? https://query.wikidata.org/#SE
>> LECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FitemLabel%20%3FgenderLabel%20%
>> 3FoccupationLabel%20%3FplaceBirthLabel%20%3FplaceDeathLabel%
>> 20%3FresidenceLabel%20%3FeducationLabel%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%
>> 20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP972%20wd%3AQ28781198%20.%0A%20%
>> 20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP21%20%3Fgender%20%7D%
>> 0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP106%20%
>> 3Foccupation%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%
>> 20wdt%3AP19%20%3FplaceBirth%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%
>> 20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP20%20%3FplaceDeath%20%7D%0A%20%
>> 20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP551%20%3Fresidence%
>> 20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP69%20%
>> 3Feducation%20%7D%0A%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%
>> 20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22en%22%20%7D%0A%7D
>>
>> Cdlt, ~nicolas
>>
>> 2017-04-08 3:39 GMT+02:00 Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> I need to do a Wikidata query of the Black Lunch Table task list that
>>> includes location-specific faceted searching:
>>>
>>> So for the upcoming Boston event, would like to be able to search by
>>> - residence (P551)
>>> - place of birth (P19)
>>> - place of death (P20)
>>> - educated at (P69)
>>> and maybe
>>> - employed by
>>>
>>> Here's the Listeria table:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_T
>>> able/Lists_of_Articles#Black_Lunch_Table_Project_Wikidata_task_list
>>>
>>> It would be for this event:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_T
>>> able/Boston_Univ_Apr2017_1
>>>
>>> The query would provide data that could be curated / vetted / updated on
>>> Wikidata to populate the Listeria table on the Boston 1 page.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help with this.
>>>
>>> - Erika
>>>
>>> *Erika Herzog*
>>> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
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[Wikidata] Query Assistance

[Brill Lyle]

Hi there,

I need to do a Wikidata query of the Black Lunch Table task list that
includes location-specific faceted searching:

So for the upcoming Boston event, would like to be able to search by
- residence (P551)
- place of birth (P19)
- place of death (P20)
- educated at (P69)
and maybe
- employed by

Here's the Listeria table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/Lists_of_Articles#Black_Lunch_Table_Project_Wikidata_task_list

It would be for this event:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Black_Lunch_Table/Boston_Univ_Apr2017_1

The query would provide data that could be curated / vetted / updated on
Wikidata to populate the Listeria table on the Boston 1 page.

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *
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Re: [Wikidata] Open Library, OCLC (VIAF) and Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

I'm not sure but VIAF does tie publications to the creators -- it's in the
middle of the VIAF entry. Maybe that's what Gerard is talking about?

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 6:26 AM, raffaele messuti 
wrote:

> On 01/04/17 11:31, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > Next week an API will become available at Open Library that provides
> > their available books for an author based on their identifier.
>
> great!
>
> > What I have asked the OL is to provide their identifier per author,
> > combined with the ISBN for an author.
>
> what do you mean for "ISBN for an author"?
>
> maybe you might be interested in this simple api wrapper[1] i made few
> months ago. it combines OCLC Classify API[2] and the wikidata sparql to
> get authors (and their viaf and wikidata id) from a book's ISBN.
>
> example:
>
> Concrete Island, JG Ballard
> https://www.worldcat.org/title/concrete-island/oclc/934107293
> ISBN-13 9780007287048
>
> $ curl https://isbn-authors.herokuapp.com/api/v1/authors/9780007287048
> [
>   {
> "name": "Ballard, J. G., 1930-2009",
> "viaf": "9842556",
> "wikidata_id": "Q140201"
>   }
> ]
>
>
> (note: the example api is hosted on heroku free tier, and is quite slow)
>
>
> --
> raffa...@docuver.se
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/atomotic/isbn-authors
> [2] http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/api_docs/index.html
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Documentation sprint for Wikidata during the Wikimedia Hackathon

[Brill Lyle]

Hello Wikidatans,

I have been very vocal about the lack of documentation -- and critical need
for documentation regarding Wikidata.

I haven't had a chance to watch the recent intro to Wikidata video that
Asaf did here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVrAx3AmUvA but I think it is
in essence and concept as an approach pretty much inadequate as well.

Newbies need something more simple than this, that isn't a talking head
talking at them.

Not super thrilled this is a crowd-sourced effort. I think this should be
created by Wikidata and should be as graphic and simple as possible. It
should be a somewhat professionally produced type of output, similar to the
basic Wiki intros I use at editathons:
- 5 Pillars - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars
- Intro to Wiki (self-paced, takes 10 minutes each track) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Introduction
- Wiki Tutorial with very helpful videos -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tutorial

As I try to say to myself, Keep It Simple, Stupid :-) I'm saying that
about myself, not anyone else But yeah.

The biggest problem:

This approach and output would require a different, less technical approach
to Wikidata, which has been a consistent issue -- at least for me --
regarding Wikidata's approaches and the willingness of the large majority
of participants to care about end user issues, especially folks like me
coming from English Wikipedia.

I think it's important to question who the audience of these materials are
going to be.

Is it for Wikipedia editors (again apologies, I'm assuming English
Wikipedia)?

Is it for newbies attending editathons and learning how to edit?

Is it for tech folks who can handle a lot more higher level database and
data manipulation concepts?


I don't know. I am I guess not a beginner when it comes to Wikidata but I
still feel inadequate and frustrated oftentimes with the interface and
knowing stuff. And I use Wikidata ALL THE TIME.


So my 2 cents on this.

I wish I could participate in person at the event -- although I might have
a contrarian perspective, as usual.

I would also like to help more actively on this, as it is so important to
me personally.

I would be happy to help if I can in any way.

Erika
Please excuse incoherence, not a lot of sleep lately




*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 6:03 AM, Léa Lacroix 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> As you know, the Wikimedia hackathon
>  will take place
> on May 19-21 in Vienna.
>
> During this event, we will organize a documentation sprint to help
> volunteers to improve the user-level documentation for Wikidata.
>
> During these 3 days, you'll be able to join (IRL or remotely, at any
> moment) to work on improving and translating the help pages. We suggest a
> focus on these 3 topics:
>
>- Beginner documentation about Wikidata
>
>- Lua for Wikimedians 
>- Wikibase installation 
>
> We will also organize some workshops (translation tools, illustration...)
> to help you build a better documentation.
>
> You will find all the information on the related page
> .
> If you're interested, feel free to add yourself in the attendees list.
>
> We're now building a list of simple tasks that volunteers could work on
> during the event. If you have any ideas, parts of the documentation that
> should really be improved... feel free to add your ideas on the talk page
> ,
> or if you feel comfortable with Phabricator, directly create subtasks of
> the tasks listed above.
>
> Thanks a lot, and maybe see you there!
>
> --
> Léa Lacroix
> Project Manager Community Communication for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
> für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Using WD categories to mark items

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Vladimir and Thad,

As to Thad's suggestion:

I think this is a bad idea, as it ties Black Lunch Table to Visual artists
of the African diaspora in a misleading way. These artists are not
specifically Black Lunch Table artists -- they are part of the effort to
address a diversity gap on the various Wikimedia projects.

Similarly, would this be used for Women in Red's massive task lists, or
other initiatives' task lists? It seems really wrong-headed in a
fundamental way.

As to Vladimir's suggestion:

Yes: I think the category discussion should be re-opened.

Yes categories can be edited by all. But as far as I can tell, they are the
only option here -- unless there is a better option beyond tagging items
with BLT. Sorry I just don't see that as a practical or logical solution.


This is a great opportunity to create bridges and collaboration -- and most
importantly outreach -- to the broader community between Wikidata and
Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons at minimum. It's a potential to integrate
the projects in a really complementary, productive way. I think that it is
in Wikidata's best interests to support this type of community-building
effort.



Best,

- Erika




*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Thad Guidry  wrote:

> Think about the use case differently...and what your really trying to
> capture.
>
> To more properly allow flexible semantic relations for the Erika and
> heathart's use case as a best practice, you can just do the following:
>
> Just create the BLACK LUNCH TABLE item in Wikipedia with a good
> description and add the property "subclass of" with "Event".. but in the
> future, BLACK LUNCH TABLE might be changed and thought of as an
> Organization ?...or if you think it really is more of an Organization
> now...then make it an "instance of" an "organization".
>
> Then add the property "part of" https://www.wikidata.org/
> wiki/Property:P361
> on each Visual artist item and fill in "part of" with the BLACK LUNCH
> TABLE item.
>
> Things to think about:
> Was the Artist a "part of" the Black Lunch Table organization ?
> Did the Artist "attend" one of the Black Lunch Table events on only 1 day ?
> Are there multiple Black Lunch Table Events around the nation...are they
> "hosted by" someone, sometime, somelocation ?
> ...
> see where I am getting at ?
> You 1st need to understand and properly state in Wikidata what "Black
> Lunch Table" really is or what "Black Lunch Table 2017" means or what
> "Black Lunch Table, 2017, Boston, MA" means if it happens, and create an
> item for it and while doing so...think about the future of as well...and
> how it "Black Lunch Table" (whatever that THING is) might change as the
> movement/organization/events might spread or grow in scale.
>
> Best of luck to all Black Artists out there !
> -Thad
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 10:16 AM Vladimir Alexiev 
> wrote:
>
>> > Is there another property that could be substituted instead on
>> Wikidata?
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately no.
>>
>>
>>
>> > the categories seemed so logical.
>>
>>
>>
>> It IS logical to use an existing category for this purpose.
>>
>>
>>
>> But the WD community has rejected my proposal
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/
>> Archive/30#category (and the previous one “useful for / interesting to”)
>> because:
>>
>> - categories are a bit messy, since many people use them for various
>> purposes
>>
>> - synchronizing cat-item assignments between WD and Wikipedias would be a
>> major hassle.
>>
>>
>>
>> They even rejected having such property that is NOT synced with
>> Wikipedias, for project purposes like
>>
>> yours (Black Lunch Table) and mine (Europeana Food and Drink, European
>> Holocaust Research Infrastructure).
>>
>>
>>
>> WD does have a bunch of over-specific categoreies, e.g. “people
>> born/died/buried here”. See
>>
>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/sqid/#/browse?activepage=1;
>> type=properties=en=category
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone think we should reopen this discussion?
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Wikipedia Task Lists for Editathons using Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

Thanks Gerard,

The end use is to have a task list for the Black Lunch Table Project
initiative on Wikipedia that would be automated -- so that it could be
queried by location and gender in a user-friendly way (like in a table) for
Wikipedia editathons.

We set up categories in Wikipedia (if they have pages) and Wikimedia
Commons (if they have images) -- and also set up a Wikidata item for both
categories on Wikidata. The residence field was used as a way to connect
the artist to a community. Then a Wikidata item would be created and/or
updated for artists who had existing Wikipedia pages (or not) -- and tagged
with these elements.

It seems like this would work but I haven't heard of any Wikipedia
initiatives that had successfully implemented Wikidata as a way to manage
and granulate their task lists.

And Magnus' table bot looks like another solution but this is all new to
me, so thought that the community here might have advice and/or guidance.

Best,

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 4:12 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> It is relatively easy to include info for all these people. The question
> is not if it can be done, the question is much more what do you want out of
> it. Including these people in a list is easy but you need something that
> combines. them otherwise there is no point as you cannot query them.
>
> The notion of notability in Wikidata is different but it is not smart to
> include info that is not connected. The most relevant thing in Wikidata
> seen as a standalone project is how things connect. The value is in the
> statements it means that for me links to Wikipedia are secondary.
>
> When you want to use Wikidata properly it is therefore not only important
> to define the information that you want, it is evn more important to know
> how you are going to use this information and how you are going to
> establish that the information at Wikidata is maintained.
>
> So yes, having a list is no problem but as in any tool, value is added
> when you take the tool seriously.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On 5 February 2017 at 09:51, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Wikidatans,
>>
>> Inspired by the Zika corpus project at WikiCite 2016,[1] I wanted to see
>> if it was (a) possible and (b) practical to set up an automatically
>> updating table (ideally for use in Wikipedia but pulling from Wikidata)
>> that would allow the Black Lunch Table Project initiative on Wikipedia to
>> automate and customize their Task List -- which is somewhat massive.[2]
>>
>> Heather Hart from Black Lunch Table holds editathons all over North
>> America,[3] and I think they will be intersectional with some of the other
>> Wikipedia initiatives. So for events in places like North Carolina or New
>> Orleans, it would be helpful for her to be able to pull artists from those
>> communities. And for Art+Feminism in March, it would be helpful for her to
>> be able to pull artists who are female-identifying.
>>
>> We set up some categories as a way to granulate a possible SPARQL query:
>>
>> - Wikipedia category:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Visual_artists_of_the
>> _African_diaspora
>>
>> - Wikimedia Commons category:
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Visual_artists_o
>> f_the_African_diaspora
>>
>> Wikidata item:
>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q28654190
>>
>> Right now the task list is approaching 1,000 entries, and I assume the
>> task list will only grow as it is a crowdsourced list. It is understood
>> that obviously not all entrants are notable, and many are at mid-career
>> levels, so even a stub might be stretching it to be on Wikipedia. But a
>> solid percentage are definitely notable and are deserving of pages.
>>
>> I was also thinking that this sort of functionality would be helpful for
>> other initiatives -- maybe also Art+Feminism -- so this process might be
>> transferrable for others too.
>>
>> Goal: To automate the task list process somewhat.
>>
>> And at minimum would be a good Wikidata project.
>>
>> I think that even exploring the possibilities here has been very fruitful
>> and illustrative of Wikidata's functionality for both myself and
>> Heather/Black Lunch Table Project. I think it might also provide very
>> positive outreach for others as well.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> - Erika
>>
>>
>> [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_Me
>> taData/Wikidata_lists/Items_about_Zika_virus_or_fever
>>
>> [2] ht

Re: [Wikidata] Determining Wikidata Usage in Wikipedia Pages

[Brill Lyle]

Supplying this information as a use case -- from my personal Wikipedia
editing.

For editathons held in NYC via our local Wikipedia chapter, I do a scrub
for edits that includes Commons and Wikidata edits.

I use the *Global contributions (GUC)* interface (https://tools.wmflabs.org/
guc/?user=BrillLyle)

Which can be found on Wikipedia:
- Wikipedia's User page
- Left side selection: User contributions
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BrillLyle - or
on-Wiki link Special:Contributions/BrillLyle.

The GUC collocates usage data.


Regarding your item #2 (first section):

The thing I do a lot is update Authority control data that shows up on
Wikipedia as "only" the template {{Authority control}} but displays
information that is updated on Wikipedia.

Twitter links are also done this way {{Twitter}} is input on Wikidata, as
are quite a few others that were automatically migrated by bots.

Best,

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Andrew Hall  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’m a PhD student/researcher at the University of Minnesota who (along
> with Max Klein and another grad student/researcher) has been interested in
> understanding the extent to which Wikidata is used in (English, for now)
> Wikipedia.
>
> There seems to be no easy way to determine Wikidata usage in Wikipedia
> pages so I’ll describe two approaches we’ve considered as our best attempts
> at solving this problem. I’ll also describe shortcomings of each approach.
>
> The first approach involves analyzing Wikipedia templates to look for
> explicit references (i.e. “#property:P”) across all templates.
> For a given template containing a certain property reference, we then
> assume that the statement corresponding to the Wikidata property is used in
> all Wikipedia pages that transclude that template. However, there are two
> clear limitations to this approach:
>
>1. If we assume that the statement corresponding to the Wikidata
>property is used in all Wikipedia pages that transclude that template, this
>results in a sort of upper bound on the number of actual property usages in
>Wikipedia. However, we have no sense of what the actual usage looks like
>since each template has its own set of logic and, whether or not a given
>property would get rendered in Wikipedia is dependent on that (sometimes
>quite complicated) logic. A possible way to get a sense of usage would be
>to sample a small set of random pages (that use templates using Wikidata)
> and manually look up whether or not the Wikidata statement for the given
>Wikidata item  is exactly
>the same as that rendered in the corresponding Wikipedia page. If it was,
>then we might assume the property is being used. Of course, this is not a
>perfect approach since it's possible that a Wikidata statement is used in
>Wikipedia but it is formatted differently in Wikidata versus in Wikipedia
>(e.g. a date is rendered using a different format).
>2. This approach does not account for Lua modules, which can be
>referenced from within templates. The modules can (and sometimes do)
>contain code that supplies Wikidata to Wikipedia pages that are transcluded
>by the given templates containing the module references. Without
>understanding and accounting for the logic in all Lua modules that use
>Wikidata, it does not seem possible to actually know which Wikidata
>properties are being introduced to Wikipedia pages through this method.
>
>
> The second approach involves expanding (using the MediaWiki API, see
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Expandtemplates) already transcluded
> templates into HTML tables in two ways: 1) in the context of the
> appropriate Wikipedia page and 2) out of context of the appropriate
> Wikipedia page (e.g. in my own sandbox). It’s my understanding that if the
> Wikipedia page uses Wikidata, then that Wikidata should show up in the
> expansion if the template is expanded in the context of its page, and not
> when expanded elsewhere (e.g. in my sandbox). We would then check to see if
> there is a difference between the two expansions by html diff-ing. The
> difference between the two expanded templates would presumably be due to
> Wikidata. Of course, there are limitations to this approach as well:
>
>1. It's possible that a Wikipedia contributor manually entered in data
>(into a transcluded template) that exactly matches data in Wikidata and
>thus, the expansions would be the same across the diff-ing — Wikidata would
>not be recognizable in this case.
>2. Once we identify (through diff-ing) where Wikidata is being used in
>expanded templates, it's not obvious what specific Wikidata
>properties/statements were used. In other words, "linking" Wikidata to
>corresponding html (table) rows in an 

Re: [Wikidata] [wikicite-discuss] Entity tagging and fact extraction (from a scholarly publisher perspective)

[Brill Lyle]

But the Mix'n'Match tool doesn't work fully -- at least not for Wiki Markup
when I tested it the last time. This functionality is critical.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Marco Fossati  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Just a couple of thoughts, which are in line with Dario's first message:
> 1. the primary sources tool lets third party providers release *full
> datasets* in a rather quick way. It is conceived to (a) ease the ingestion
> of *non-curated* data and to (b) make the community directly decide which
> statements should be included, instead of eventually complex a priori
> discussions.
> Important: the datasets should comply with the Wikidata
> vocabulary/ontology.
>
> 2. I see the mix'n'match tool as a way to *link* datasets with Wikidata
> via ID mappings, thus only requiring statements that say "Wikidata entity X
> links to the third party dataset entity Y".
> This is pretty much what the linked data community has been doing so far.
> No need to comply with the Wikidata vocabulary/ontology.
>
> Best,
>
> Marco
>
> Il 11 nov 2016 10:27 AM, "Andrew Smeall"  ha
> scritto:
>
>> Regarding the topics/vocabularies issue:
>>
>> A challenge we're working on is finding a set of controlled vocabularies
>> for all the subject areas we cover.
>>
>> We do use MeSH for those subjects, but this only applies to about 40% of
>> our papers. In Engineering, for example, we've had more trouble finding an
>> open taxonomy with the same level of depth as MeSH. For most internal
>> applications, we need 100% coverage of all subjects.
>>
>> Machine learning for concept tagging is trendy now, partly because it
>> doesn't require a preset vocabulary, but we are somewhat against this
>> approach because we want to control the mapping of terms and a taxonomic
>> hierarchy can be useful. The current ML tools I've seen can match to a
>> controlled vocabulary, but then they need the publisher to supply the terms.
>>
>> The temptation to build a new vocabulary is strong, because it's the
>> fastest way to get to something that is non-proprietary and universal. We
>> can merge existing open vocabularies like MeSH and PLOS to get most of the
>> way there, but we then need to extend that with concepts from our corpus.
>>
>> Thanks Daniel and Benjamin for your responses. Any other feedback would
>> be great, and I'm always happy to delve into issues from the publisher
>> perspective if that can be helpful.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Dario Taraborelli <
>> dtarabore...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Benjamin – agreed, I too see Wikidata as mainly a place to hold all the
>>> mappings. Once we support federated queries in WDQS, the benefit of ID
>>> mapping (over extensive data ingestion) will become even more apparent.
>>>
>>> Hope Andrew and other interested parties can pick up this thread.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Benjamin Good >> > wrote:
>>>
 Dario,

 One message you can send is that they can and should use existing
 controlled vocabularies and ontologies to construct the metadata they want
 to share.  For example, MeSH descriptors would be a good way for them to
 organize the 'primary topic' assertions for their articles and would make
 it easy to find the corresponding items in Wikidata when uploading.  Our
 group will be continuing to expand coverage of identifiers and concepts
 from vocabularies like that in Wikidata - and any help there from
 publishers would be appreciated!

 My view here is that Wikidata can be a bridge to the terminologies and
 datasets that live outside it - not really a replacement for them.  So, if
 they have good practices about using shared vocabularies already, it should
 (eventually) be relatively easy to move relevant assertions into the
 WIkidata graph while maintaining interoperability and integration with
 external software systems.

 -Ben

 On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:31 AM, 'Daniel Mietchen' via wikicite-discuss
  wrote:

> I'm traveling ( https://twitter.com/EvoMRI/status/793736211009536000
> ), so just in brief:
> In terms of markup, some general comments are in
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK159964/ , which is not specific
> to Hindawi but partly applies to them too.
>
> A problem specific to Hindawi (cf.
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Media_from_Hindawi) is the
> bundling of the descriptions of all supplementary files, which
> translates into uploads like
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Evolution-of-Coronar
> y-Flow-in-an-Experimental-Slow-Flow-Model-in-Swines-Angiogra
> phic-and-623986.f1.ogv
> (with descriptions for nine files)
> and eight files with no description, e.g.
> 

Re: [Wikidata] External link Twitter --> Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

Andy: Did it occur to you that maybe there were no objections because there
was no visibility to the request?

Quite frankly, I am amenable to these changes and support pushing
granulated data like this and Authority Control to Wikidata. I am. I
recognize the value of these efforts, and how great it will be for Wikidata
and Wikipedia.

However, without proper user-friendly documentation -- not just a template
page update that unless you are familiar with templates it will be
unintelligible, but a proper set of documentation for newbies and
experienced editor alike -- and just as importantly, without communicating
this change effectively to the larger spectrum of Wikipedia and Wikidata
editors, this approach comes off as a rogue effort.

Of concern: I see a list of Bot changes you are initiating here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JJMC89_bot/Wikidata_external_link_template_parameter_removal
It is NOT a trivial amount of items, and will have an impact on both
Wikipedia and Wikidata.

I am doing nothing wrong here by asking these questions. How you choose to
respond and take the questions is your problem.

I don't want to take up any further bandwith on Wikidata's mailing list, as
it has been explained to me that this is a Wikipedia project issue, not a
Wikidata issue. Although the data will now reside and live on Wikidata's
project pages.


- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 9 October 2016 at 12:34, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So I have been noticing that Twitter links often found in the External
> link section is starting to move to Wikidata on English Wikipedia.
> {{Twitter}} template is used much like with {{Authority control}}
> >
> > Was there consensus or discussion about this before it's implementation?
> I am hoping there is also really good documentation so Wikipedia editors
> know how to create and/or edit this value.
>
> You have posted about this on at least three different venues on
> en.Wikipedia; I answered your original question at:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:JJMC89#Twitter_--.3E_Wikidata
>
> and your subsequent comment at:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Twitter#Wikidata
>
> > Apologies if I didn't see this mentioned or addressed previously
>
> Despite this apology, in each of the three conversations, started
> afterwards, you said you were "very concerned about the lack of
> transparency and notification". My first response, linked above,
> includes a link to the notification, which was in place for several
> weeks before the edits were made, and which invited objections, but
> attracted none.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikidata] External link Twitter --> Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

I found the bot and the editors who are doing the change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JJMC89_bot

I still think Wikidata needs to be part of this discussion, especially if
more of these items push to Wikidata.
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Re: [Wikidata] External link Twitter --> Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

Thanks Yaroslav.

I can see a brief discussion that seems to have happened month ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Twitter

But the BLP that I edit have only started to be changed in the last couple
of weeks.

I still think this is very disingenuous to expect no responsibility or
communication by and with Wikidata. Wikidata is becoming the host
repository for this information now. Doesn't that "ownership" imply some
sort of responsibility, interactively, with its sister projects. Especially
the largest one, English Wikipedia?

I have actually come over to the side of being convinced that Authority
Control and datasets like Twitter are serviced well by Wikidata -- and
support this process. But documentation and communication needs to be
vastly improved so that both Wikidatans and Wikipedians know how the data
is added, updated, etc.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter <pute...@mccme.ru>
wrote:

> On 09.10.2016 19:46, Brill Lyle wrote:
>
>> So if this is not the place to discuss these issues, should I be going
>> to the Wikipedia-l with them? Issues that directly relate to Wikidata?
>>
>> I would really appreciate some clarification on this.
>>
>>
> Hi Erika,
>
> I guess the starting point would be to contact on-wiki (e.g. on the
> English Wikipedia) the user who is removing the templates (or the bot
> owner) and ask for the venue where the issue was discussed. If such venue
> exists, I am pretty sure it is on Wikipedia. If this has not been
> discussed, it probably needs to be stopped.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] External link Twitter --> Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

So if this is not the place to discuss these issues, should I be going to
the Wikipedia-l with them? Issues that directly relate to Wikidata?

I would really appreciate some clarification on this.

It seems that there are a lot of assumptions here that I don't understand
or know about. I know everyone here is very smart. Maybe I am not qualified
to be on this list because I am not an academic or a scientist or a
computer programmer, and there is no place or desire to have someone not in
those categories participating?

I create and edit Wikidata items. I have a library degree. Authority
control and citations are my focus when editing Wikipedia/Wikidata. Yet I
don't seem to fit in with the overarching schema here.


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 12:08 PM, Egon Willighagen <
egon.willigha...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How on EARTH could this be the wrong place to talk about this? I am still
>> laughing.
>>
>
> Because it's a political/social decision to make, not technical. Wikidata
> can only provide solutions, but the decision is with each Wikipedia, not
> Wikidata.
>
> Egon
>
> --
> E.L. Willighagen
> Department of Bioinformatics - BiGCaT
> Maastricht University (http://www.bigcat.unimaas.nl/)
> Homepage: http://egonw.github.com/
> LinkedIn: http://se.linkedin.com/in/egonw
> Blog: http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/
> PubList: http://www.citeulike.org/user/egonw/tag/papers
> ORCID: -0001-7542-0286
> ImpactStory: https://impactstory.org/u/egonwillighagen
>
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Re: [Wikidata] External link Twitter --> Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

I guess we disagree. I don't see this issue as being particularly political
or social. That seems like a very odd distinction to make.

Because in that approach, how would I have the technical information to
know, if I was editing Wikipedia, how to add or update this information?

I don't get this distinction -- or the lack of communication -- about these
types of changes. Changes which are having a pretty significant impact on
Wikipedia editing. Without discussion that I have seen.

If this "Wikidata can only provide solutions" approach (as you describe it)
is taken I think that does a HUGE disservice to to intersectionality and
potential outreach and future growth of Wikidata as both a platform and as
a semantic backbone of Wikipedia, English or otherwise.

I totally disagree with this, as is probably evident. I am actually really
sad to read this.

So I guess if Wikidata is seen as purely technical there is no place for
end-user issues. Which is what I see this as? That also doesn't really seem
logical.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 12:08 PM, Egon Willighagen <
egon.willigha...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How on EARTH could this be the wrong place to talk about this? I am still
>> laughing.
>>
>
> Because it's a political/social decision to make, not technical. Wikidata
> can only provide solutions, but the decision is with each Wikipedia, not
> Wikidata.
>
> Egon
>
> --
> E.L. Willighagen
> Department of Bioinformatics - BiGCaT
> Maastricht University (http://www.bigcat.unimaas.nl/)
> Homepage: http://egonw.github.com/
> LinkedIn: http://se.linkedin.com/in/egonw
> Blog: http://chem-bla-ics.blogspot.com/
> PubList: http://www.citeulike.org/user/egonw/tag/papers
> ORCID: -0001-7542-0286
> ImpactStory: https://impactstory.org/u/egonwillighagen
>
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Re: [Wikidata] External link Twitter --> Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

This made me laugh. Thank you. It is a rainy Sunday and this brightened it up a 
bit. 

How on EARTH could this be the wrong place to talk about this? I am still 
laughing. 

Anyway, I would be happy to generate something for Wikipedia editors like I did 
for Authority Control. 

I suspect there will be many more of these datasets moved to Wikidata. 

I plan on doing at least one lightning talk on these at upcoming editathons 
and/or WikiWednesdays. I think in addition to training folks on Wikipedia 
editing it is becoming very clear we need to do some basic Wikidata editing 
that dovetails with these items. 

Best,

- Erika

> On Oct 9, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Thomas Douillard <thomas.douill...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, I'm afraid this is the wrong place to talk about this. 
> 
> We're incompetent on this list to talk about this as it's wikipedias and 
> their community matter to discuss on how Wikidata datas are used. There is 
> documentation indeed on how to modify Wikidata for contributors : 
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Contents especially the 
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tours are interesting on basis on how 
> to edit Wikidata for beginners.
> 
> 2016-10-09 13:34 GMT+02:00 Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>:
>> So I have been noticing that Twitter links often found in the External link 
>> section is starting to move to Wikidata on English Wikipedia. {{Twitter}} 
>> template is used much like with {{Authority control}}
>> 
>> Was there consensus or discussion about this before it's implementation? I 
>> am hoping there is also really good documentation so Wikipedia editors know 
>> how to create and/or edit this value.
>> 
>> Apologies if I didn't see this mentioned or addressed previously.
>> 
>> - Erika
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[Wikidata] External link Twitter --> Wikidata

[Brill Lyle]

So I have been noticing that Twitter links often found in the External link 
section is starting to move to Wikidata on English Wikipedia. {{Twitter}} 
template is used much like with {{Authority control}}

Was there consensus or discussion about this before it's implementation? I am 
hoping there is also really good documentation so Wikipedia editors know how to 
create and/or edit this value. 

Apologies if I didn't see this mentioned or addressed previously. 

- Erika
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Re: [Wikidata] [Wikitech-l] Wikidata Query Service demo video

[Brill Lyle]

Could this be placed somewhere prominent and easy to find -- maybe in the
Help section?

Speaking of: Is there is a compendium of videos that are good like this on
the Wikidata site?

I would love to play some of these at our monthly WikiWednesday salon &
skillshare during our lightning talk segment.

Great work!

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Daniel Mietchen <
daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Now on Commons:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikidata_Sparql_
> Query_Tutorial.webm
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:19 AM, camelia boban 
> wrote:
> > Very nice, I need it.
> > Thank you, CAmelia
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > *Camelia Boban*Freelance developer | Aissa Technologies
> > 
> > T. +39 0670301772 | M. +39 3383385545
> > camelia.bo...@gmail.com
> > *Wikipedia  |
> *Twitter
> >  | *Google Plus
> > * | *LinkedIn*
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-09-06 21:47 GMT+02:00 Info WorldUniversity <
> > i...@worlduniversityandschool.org>:
> >
> >> Thanks - helpful tutorial.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Pine W  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Video demo of Wikidata Query Service: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> >> > v=1jHoUkj_mKw
> >> >
> >> > Pine
> >> >
> >> > ___
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> >> >
> >>
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> >>
> >> - http://worlduniversityandschool.org
> >>
> >> - 415 480 4577
> >>
> >> - PO Box 442, (86 Ridgecrest Road), Canyon, CA 94516
> >>
> >> - World University and School - like Wikipedia with best STEM-centric
> >> OpenCourseWare - incorporated as a nonprofit university and school in
> >> California, and is a U.S. 501 (c) (3) tax-exempt educational
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> >>
> >>
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[Wikidata] Wikidata - Property Proposal

[Brill Lyle]

Hi Wikidatans,

After going past my 500th edit on Wikidata #Whee! I was hoping to dip my
toe into doing something that would involve a larger scale project, like
adding database information to Wikidata.

There's a database I use all the time that is excellent, rich, deep, and
well-deployed -- at JewishGen.org

main search page: http://www.jewishgen.org/Communities/Search.asp
example page:
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~community~-524980

I started a Property proposal here:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Place#JewishGen_Locality_ID_English

I have also contacted the folks over at JewishGen to ask if they might
provide me with raw data, initially even just with the locality page IDs,
then hopefully more rich / fuller data that's in the database.

I was wondering if this is

(a) the typical approach people use when importing data
(b) if you have any advice / best practices to share
(c) also, if I should try and do a wget to scrub for this data (if that's
even possible)? do people do this to grab data?

This information, I envision being used as part of a unique identifier that
could be built into infoboxes, and might also be a sort of templatized box
even (although I don't hugely love the issue of restricted / redirected
editing away from Wikipedia). But I would really like to see this
information in a pathway to Wikipedia. I think it would improve a lot of
these town pages, a lot of which are stubs.

Best -- and thanks in advance for any advice,

Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *
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Re: [Wikidata] pattern for linking to linked data ?

[Brill Lyle]

This sounds very similar to the Authority Control elements, which are
tightly controlled.

Is there a related template being used in Wikipedia cf. {{Authority
control}}?

It seems logical to use Database name = value, unless I am not
understanding?

This would be great for other specific data sets, as well. Much more
query-able, too, if they are their own subset?

Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Benjamin Good 
wrote:

> Perhaps it would be more productive if I give a very specific example.
>  (I'd prefer a general, wikidata-wide policy but it sounds like that isn't
> going to happen.)
>
> We are working on integrating wikidata with many of the ontologies that
> are part of the OBO Foundry [1].  These include, for example, the Gene
> Ontology and the Disease Ontology.  Bringing the concepts represented in
> these ontologies in as items in wikidata makes it possible to author claims
> that capture knowledge about the relationships between, for example, genes,
> biological processes, diseases, and drugs.  These claims are thus far
> mostly drawn from associated public databases.  They serve to populate
> infoboxes on Wikipedias and, we hope, will also help foster the growth of
> new applications that can help to capture more knowledge for re-use by the
> wikidata community.  Importantly, these imports also bind the wikidata
> community here to the community of biomedical researchers over there.
> Establishing a coherent pattern for binding the concepts in these
> ontologies to the corresponding items in wikidata is important for two key
> reasons:
>
> (1) The ontologies and other linked data resources that use them have a
> lot of data that is never likely to get into wikidata and vice versa.
> Establishing clear mappings makes it possible to integrate that knowledge
> (mostly) automatically.  (AKA the whole idea of the semantic web...).  The
> more consistent the pattern of mapping, the more automation is possible.
>
> (2) It is vitally important to the maintainers of these resources to be
> able to track usage of their work products.  The more an ontology that is
> funded for the purpose of supporting research and knowledge dissemination
> can show that it is being used, the better the argument to continue its
> funding.  When negotiating the import of knowledge products into a CC0
> world, it is important that we can demonstrate that the items will
> generally remain connected as well as give indications about how they are
> being used.  (Accepting of course that with CC0 there is no guarantee.)
>
> Given that context, would you support the proposal of using the exact
> match property to bind this specific set of biomedical wikidata items to
> items defined elsewhere on the semantic web?  If not, what would be the
> best alternative?
>
> -Ben
>
> [1] http://www.obofoundry.org
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Authority control help

[Brill Lyle]

Here's drafts of a color deck (for projection) and a grayscale deck (for
printing)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/2016-08-05-AuthorityControl.pdf

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/2016-08-05-AuthorityControl-Grayscale.pdf

Suggestions welcome!

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Andy and others --
>
> Would it be helpful if I did a slide deck that has this as a printable /
> projectable document? I could generate that if it might be useful.
>
> - Erika
>
>
> *Erika Herzog*
> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5 August 2016 at 18:50, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I created a pretty rough, but hopefully still usable, help page for
>> manually
>> > inputting and moving Authority control metadata from Wikipedia to
>> Wikidata
>> > for new pages that have no associated Wikidata item.
>> >
>> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tours/Authority_control
>>
>> Looks good! I will certainly make use of this in my training sessions..
>>
>> I would move your step 7 above the current step 5.
>>
>> I would also add a note that other statements should be added, not
>> least P31 ("instance of") => Q5 ("human").
>>
>> It's good practise to check for duplicates before creating an item,
>> but I think it's safe to omit that step, in a case like this, in a
>> simple guide for Wikidata newbies.
>>
>> Thanks for putting in the effort.
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Authority control help

[Brill Lyle]

Andy and others --

Would it be helpful if I did a slide deck that has this as a printable /
projectable document? I could generate that if it might be useful.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 5 August 2016 at 18:50, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I created a pretty rough, but hopefully still usable, help page for
> manually
> > inputting and moving Authority control metadata from Wikipedia to
> Wikidata
> > for new pages that have no associated Wikidata item.
> >
> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tours/Authority_control
>
> Looks good! I will certainly make use of this in my training sessions..
>
> I would move your step 7 above the current step 5.
>
> I would also add a note that other statements should be added, not
> least P31 ("instance of") => Q5 ("human").
>
> It's good practise to check for duplicates before creating an item,
> but I think it's safe to omit that step, in a case like this, in a
> simple guide for Wikidata newbies.
>
> Thanks for putting in the effort.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Authority control help

[Brill Lyle]

Wanted to also add that I understand:

There are bots that
- Harvest new articles
- Add items for new articles
- Harvest authority control data

This is for casual Wikipedians -- especially librarians who like Authority
control and are creating stubs at editathons -- to start to learn how to
create a linked entry and edit Authority control on Wikidata. Something
quick and sequential so they might get an overview and translation of the
cross-walk between Wikipedia and Wikidata.

Gerard M. and I had an off list conversation about this and he thinks it is
not a valuable effort (see bots above). So that's why I wanted to mention
this usage.

Also when I want to have the new Wikipedia stub have the Authority control,
I can never use the steps. I am old and tired and need everything written
down. :-)

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I created a pretty rough, but hopefully still usable, help page for
> manually inputting and moving Authority control metadata from Wikipedia to
> Wikidata for new pages that have no associated Wikidata item.
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tours/Authority_control
>
> Wasn't sure if it is okay to create a page on Wikidata, but I followed the
> Be Bold! mantra and just went for it.
>
> And again this is not the most elegant solution, but I wanted there to be
> some sort of graphic documentation on how to update Authority Control.
>
> Best,
>
> - Erika
>
> *Erika Herzog*
> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Authority control help

[Brill Lyle]

I forgot about the duplicate issue. I think the assumption here is a new
Wikipedia page -- which is what we encounter at many of the editathons here
in NYC -- and how to get Authority control in as a new Wikidata item, but I
think I will footnote this

Thanks!

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Andrew Gray 
wrote:

> On 5 August 2016 at 19:28, john cummings  wrote:
> > Hey Erika
> >
> > One suggestion, add a step before creating a new item on Wikidata of
> > searching for an existing item, it may be an item exists but isn't
> linked to
> > Wikipedia.
>
> With authority control, that may be a self-repairing a problem - if
> you add an identifier that already exists on another item, it'll be
> automatically logged and flagged on the constraints report. These get
> pruned every now and again, so the duplicate record will get fixed in
> time. See, for example, a few examples (which are probably my fault!)
> at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_reports/
> Constraint_violations/P1614#.22Unique_value.22_violations
>
> Andrew.
>
> - Andrew Gray
>   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Authority control help

[Brill Lyle]

Very smart. Done.

I didn't want to get into adding statements and other elements to Wikidata
as it somewhat outside the scope of the Authority control thing, but Maybe
I should link to the Tours. I founds those helpful.

Thank you!


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 2:29 PM, Andy Mabbett <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 5 August 2016 at 18:50, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I created a pretty rough, but hopefully still usable, help page for
> manually
> > inputting and moving Authority control metadata from Wikipedia to
> Wikidata
> > for new pages that have no associated Wikidata item.
> >
> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tours/Authority_control
>
> Looks good! I will certainly make use of this in my training sessions..
>
> I would move your step 7 above the current step 5.
>
> I would also add a note that other statements should be added, not
> least P31 ("instance of") => Q5 ("human").
>
> It's good practise to check for duplicates before creating an item,
> but I think it's safe to omit that step, in a case like this, in a
> simple guide for Wikidata newbies.
>
> Thanks for putting in the effort.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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[Wikidata] Authority control help

[Brill Lyle]

I created a pretty rough, but hopefully still usable, help page for
manually inputting and moving Authority control metadata from Wikipedia to
Wikidata for new pages that have no associated Wikidata item.

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Tours/Authority_control

Wasn't sure if it is okay to create a page on Wikidata, but I followed the
Be Bold! mantra and just went for it.

And again this is not the most elegant solution, but I wanted there to be
some sort of graphic documentation on how to update Authority Control.

Best,

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *
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Re: [Wikidata] Info box proposal

[Brill Lyle]

Yes. Point taken John. Wow. Thank goodness I use syntax highlighting
#love... but still: Yikes. Here's the link to the page if anyone wants to
dig around the madness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

I guess I see a difference between a casual editor wanting to update a
piece of data that can be Ctrl+F searched for among a mass of information
versus battling with P# Wikidata items amongst an endless sea of
chronological elements and curly brackets. But that's just me.

re: this proposal

I think Putnik has been very patient with my concerns and in trying to
answer questions. As have others. I really appreciate it.

I am not satisfied, and the majority of my concerns will not be addressed.
There do not seem to be solutions here that will make me happy. I will be
interested to see how this proposal progresses.

Best,

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 12:12 PM, john cummings 
wrote:

> I think its important to make a distinction between what is easiest and
> what people are used to. Perhaps thinking about what new users would find
> easiest might be helpful.
>
> Here is an example of a well developed infobox on English Wikipedia, I
> think that the knowledge needed to edit this is an unreasonable barrier for
> casual, new or even fairly experienced if less technical editors like
> myself.
>
> {{about|the country|its largest island|Great Britain|other uses|United
> Kingdom (disambiguation)|and|UK (disambiguation)}}
> {{pp-semi-indef}}
> {{pp-move-indef}}
> {{Use British English|date=April 2012}}
> {{Use dmy dates|date=July 2016}}
> {{Infobox country
> | name =
>  {{collapsible list
>  |titlestyle=background:transparent;font-size:9pt;
>  |title={{resize|11.5pt|{{nowrap|United Kingdom of Great}}
> {{nowrap|Britain and Northern Ireland
>  |{{Infobox |subbox=yes |bodystyle=font-size:9pt;font-weight:normal;
>  |rowclass1=mergedrow |label1=[[Cornish language|Cornish]]:
> |data1={{lang|kw|Rywvaneth Unys Breten Veur ha Kledhbarth Iwerdhon}}
>  |rowclass2 =mergedrow |label2=[[Irish language|Irish]]:
> |data2={{lang|ga|Ríocht Aontaithe na Breataine Móire agus Thuaisceart
> Éireann}}
>  |rowclass3=mergedrow |label3=[[Scots language|Scots]]:
> |data3={{lang|sco|Unitit Kinrick o Great Breetain an Northren Ireland}}
>  |rowclass4=mergedrow |label4=[[Ulster Scots dialects|Ulster
> Scots]]:|data4={{lang|sco-UKN|Claught Kängrick o Docht Brätain an Norlin
> Airlann}}
>  |rowclass5=mergedrow |label5=[[ScottishGaelic]]:
> |data5={{lang|gd|Rìoghachd Aonaichte Bhreatainn is Èireann a Tuath}}
>  |rowclass6=mergedrow |label6=[[Welsh language|Welsh]]:
> |data6={{lang|cy|Teyrnas Unedig Prydain Fawr a Gogledd Iwerddon}}
>  }}
>  }}
>  | common_name = United Kingdom
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Info box proposal

[Brill Lyle]

Because this proposal involves depreciating the infobox to Wikipedia -- my
biggest concern -- I changed my endorsement to Weak Support but under no
circumstances implement on English Wikipedia. I think it would be a very
bad approach.

The Danish examples seemed more ideal, which was why I changed to Support.

I also really don't like this sequential list of elements. The faceted
element=value relationship is gone, and adding Wikidata numbers to
Wikipedia is very backwards.

Again, I would like this proposal to involve creating a form (in Wiki
Markup) that is filled in like with the Cite RefToolbar -- see
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RefToolbar-URL-autofill.png --
minus the lookups

I am not seeing a value add to this proposal's implementation. The barriers
to entry for editors is very high.

- Erika
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Re: [Wikidata] Info box proposal

[Brill Lyle]

Really appreciate what you wrote here Markus. Thank you.

After doing a bunch of digging around and collecting questions on the
Discussion page of the proposed Grant, Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (Thank
you!) provided two examples of roughly what I believe this might look like,
which I am sharing here for anyone who hasn't seen it:

Person: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svend_Auken
Company: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bispebjerg_Hospital

Maybe I have comfort with editing template boxes, and assume this is a
minimal barrier, but seeing the possible implementation answered much of my
concerns. This does not seem to be a depreciation away from Wikipedia, I
don't think, like Authority Control was.

I still don't 100% understand how the interface is edited and wonder if
marking the Wikidata page with icons to note the source (i.e., Infobox,
Authority Control) but that might be overkill / unnecessary. (?) But from
these examples I will definitely revise my Endorsement.

Thanks again,

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Markus Kroetzsch <
markus.kroetz...@tu-dresden.de> wrote:

> Mh. Is this actually leading anywhere? I can see both views, but there is
> a danger that things are getting non-constructive here. A particular issue
> in my view is playing the "Wikipedia-vs-Wikidata" card. I don't see things
> in this way, and I hope most Wikipedia and Wikidata editors don't either.
>
> Of course there are different interfaces and different pitfalls for each
> system. Let's face it: both are far from perfect when it comes to UI.
> People use them because they are extremely important projects, in spite --
> not because -- of the UIs. I have also read about missing documentation on
> how to do things. Again, I don't think either project really shines here.
> There often is documentation if you know where to look, but if you just
> come by the page and want to work, it is very difficult to find it. Things
> could be much better.
>
> Therefore, any approach that looks only at current editors (who already
> have made a lot of effort to wrap their heads around one of the
> not-always-intuitive processes and interfaces) is necessarily too limited.
> Their tolerance to the "other" UI will be as low as anybody's (ask someone
> on the street how nice they find either template editing or Wikidata input
> forms -- you'll get similar views). At the same time, current users often
> have a kind of Stockholm syndrome towards the UI they are used to. We have
> to take their views very serious, but we must not build our sites only for
> the people who already use them now.
>
> The question therefore is not at all which of the current UIs is better,
> but rather how both can be improved. For this list, this mainly leads to
> the question how Wikidata can be improved. The practical insights gathered
> with different editor groups around the world are useful here. The findings
> need to be split into small, actionable units and prioritized. Then they
> will be fixed.
>
> For this to work, it is completely irrelevant if more people like one UI
> or more people like the other. Since the UIs are doing completely different
> things, we won't be able to replace one by the other anyway. All we can do
> is to improve on our side. For this reason, any "vs"-themed discussion can
> only be harmful, attracting trolls who love to chime in whenever there is
> critique, and frustrate contributors who would rather like to get things
> done than to argue.
>
> As for the (little) project that started this discussion, I think it
> should not be overrated in its scope. If people don't find the current UI
> usable enough, they will not switch to use it until we have our processes
> improved. But having other pieces of the puzzle in place will increase the
> pressure on Wikidata to fix remaining pain points, and possibly do exactly
> what Erika is asking for: make the voice of current Wikipedia editors
> (even) more relevant to ongoing Wikidata development.
>
> Peace,
>
> Markus
>
>
>
> On 03.08.2016 19:24, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
>
>> Brill Lyle, 03/08/2016 19:20:
>>
>>> I am not saying editing Wiki Markup on Wikidata. Is that what you are
>>> describing?
>>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Nemo
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Info box proposal

[Brill Lyle]

I think you are misunderstanding. I am not saying editing Wiki Markup on
Wikidata. Is that what you are describing?

I am talking about editing Wiki Markup on Wikipedia. I am expecting this
interface to be editable on Wikipedia, not having it force Wikipedia
editors to edit infoboxes on Wikipedia only in Wikidata.


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:06 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemow...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Brill Lyle, 03/08/2016 18:53:
>
>> Speaking of: Where's the user documentation for Authority Control? Have
>> you tried to update and/or add Authority Control on Wikidata manually?
>>
>
> Sure. I've also taught dozens of persons and none of them preferred
> entering said data via wikitext (despite being taught that option too).
>
>
> Nemo
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Info box proposal

[Brill Lyle]

I am basing my concerns on my own experience editing Wikidata as well as
two separate workshops where Wikimedia NYC Wikipedia editors were taught
and edited Wikidata and discussed end-user challenges both times.

I disagree that Wikidata is easier to edit than Wiki Markup or Visual
Editor. The null responses when trying to save, those alone, if you are not
using the controlled expected vocabularies presents huge barriers to
editing. Frankly, manual editing takes forever. Sorry totally disagree.

Deep links is well and good but how about user documentation and making it
a seamless experience for Wikipedia editors -- not just for Wikidata
editors? I think you are missing the point of my concerns here. And to make
such a significant change and implement it with no regard for Wikipedia
editors, the whole thing seems very non-ideal and problematic. And biased
towards Wikidata.

There seems to be a lack of focus on the casual Wikipedia editor and their
needs. The focus is on Wikidata, which is fine if you are doing Wikidata
editing or running queries, I guess. But for this to be interoperable
between Wikipedia and Wikidata, the usability for an end-user is an issue.
And more importantly a barrier.

Speaking of: Where's the user documentation for Authority Control? Have you
tried to update and/or add Authority Control on Wikidata manually? It is
clunky and difficult and you need to know Wikidata to do it. I keep
whinging and moaning enough about it maybe I'll try to do a rapid grant to
fund a project so I can carve out time to create something finally.

For the Infobox template it's even more elements, and it's unclear to me
how an Infobox populates on Wikidata.

And are all Infobox templates on Wikipedia considered here? Are all
elements going to translate, exhaustively?

I had the same concern with the RefToolbar Cite templates, which was part
of the bibliographic metadata focus at WikiCite 2016 recently. What is the
point of Wikipedia editors using these great templates in Wikipedia when
there is no effort by Wikidata to create pathways and integrate existing
Wikipedia templates into the semantics of Wikidata? I find this maddening.
And a big problem.

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemow...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Brill Lyle, 03/08/2016 13:30:
>
>> Huge barrier for Wikipedia end-users.
>>
>
> What makes you think so? Did you interview or observe users editing? In my
> experience, Wikidata is much easier for newbies to grasp than wikitext or
> even VisualEditor: like VisualEditor's template editor, Wikidata resembles
> a standard form, which people are used to.
>
> We only need to make sure there are direct deep links from each piece of
> displayed (or missing) information to the statement on Wikidata where they
> are (or should be); and later add dialogs for direct editing from the
> client wikis, as was done long ago with the interlanguage links.
>
> Nemo
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Info box proposal

[Brill Lyle]

Agree. I will take it to the discussion page. Wanted to get more feedback
and guidance here but this seems to be an ongoing issue that is probably
not resolvable, at least not now.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:41 AM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The paper focuses, yet again on Visual Editor. And while I understand
> that
> > many editors prefer this, any implementation must service both the Visual
> > Editor users as well as the Wiki Markup users.
> >
> > Again, major concerns. I guess unless I have more off-Wiki conversations
> > about this topic, I will move my concerns to the proposal page.
> >
> > I believe in Wikidata and want to encourage usage -- and am trying to
> use it
> > more -- but unless you are running queries it's quite frankly a flipping
> > nightmare. I love the idea. Usability, not so much. And I know it is
> > improved and there are many smart people I admire involved in this
> project.
> > But the lack of buy-in by Wikipedia editors is happening for a reason.
>
> You are absolutely right that this is a big problem. However I believe
> that this grant proposal will get us closer to a solution than farther
> away.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
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> 10963 Berlin
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[Wikidata] Info box proposal

[Brill Lyle]

Saw this posted on Twitter.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Putnik/Wikidata_module

This proposal is my greatest fear with Wikidata. Depreciate Infoboxes to 
Wikidata so casual Wikipedia editors can't edit on Wiki, are forced to use 
Wikidata (comparable to existing Authority Control depreciation). Huge barrier 
for Wikipedia end-users. 

Before I voice my concerns on this Grant page, I wondered if the end-user issue 
has been discussed here -- and if this could be explained why it is such a good 
idea? And what user issues have been and could be addressed before the project 
is implemented.

I understand something like this is part of Russian Wikipedia. How did that 
community respond to this what I see as significant change?

- Erika

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Re: [Wikidata] Controversy around Wikimania talks

[Brill Lyle]

Gerard's point that the items are typically found in Wikimedia Commons I think 
is key. If the item is part of a sister project to Wikidata then it has a 
corresponding place on Wikidata. Unless I misunderstand the interoperability 
and mission of Wikidata.

Also: I am not a fan of deleting content -- especially content that is curated, 
focused, captures a time and place, incorporates hard work on projects 
especially as it relates to a Wikimedia project. To me this is not defensible. 
So deleting entries seems similar to my experience with Wikipedia editors 
hostile to added content focused on deletionism -- of course to a notable 
women's page where I as an editor am trying to establish said notability -- who 
characterize the information as yes, "too encyclopedic." #Ridiculous I wish 
this wasn't true. 

So I agree with Gerard and others here. 

- Erika

> On Jul 31, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Gerard Meijssen  
> wrote:
> 
> Hoi,
> There are several things at play. First, Wikimania and its talks will find 
> its place in Wikidata because typically much of the papers, presentations and 
> registrations will be found in Commons. So they will be registered anyway. 
> Second, this thread is also about the way our policies are maintained. This 
> is done in an arbitrary way and consequently much of the arguments based on 
> policies have lost much of their validity. Third, the number of items 
> involved is so low that it not even registers. When other conferences like 
> TED find their way, it is not a problem so why should granularity be a 
> problem now?
> 
> When people want to know about how we think about what we do, the Wikimania 
> talks is a prime resource. Papers are published about what we do. We could 
> easily refer people to Wikimania and other talks. We could and should because 
> it makes sense to do so. In the end it is our history.
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
> 
>> On 31 July 2016 at 17:25, Daniel Kinzler  wrote:
>> Am 31.07.2016 um 17:04 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
>> > Hoi,
>> > I am not to judge what conferences will be deemed relevant for an item in
>> > Wikidata. When a conference is relevant, it is the talks and particularly 
>> > the
>> > registrations of the talks, the papers and the presentations that make the
>> > conference relevant after the fact.
>> 
>> So you think that for every relevant conference, all talks and speakers 
>> should
>> automatically be considered relevant? Does the same aregument apply to all
>> courses and theachers at all relevant universities and schools?
>> 
>> I'm trying to understand your point. To me it's a question of granularity. We
>> can't manage arbitrarily fine grained information, so we have to stop at some
>> point. What do you think, where should that point be for Wikimania, for other
>> (relevant) conferences, for universities, for schools?
>> 
>> --
>> Daniel Kinzler
>> Senior Software Developer
>> 
>> Wikimedia Deutschland
>> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>> 
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Re: [Wikidata] first Commons prototype is live \o/

[Brill Lyle]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Lydia Pintscher
> > <lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks. Stuff like that is useful to have as examples.
> >
> >
> > If it's possible to engage some of the GLAM institutions here in NYC and
> > around the world in doing donations like this, I know I for one would
> like
> > to strongly promote and support this type of Wikidata+Commons-focused
> > initiative. I think other chapters might be able to integrate this into
> > ongoing initiatives and annual editathons that are in the
> GLAM-o-sphere
> > We have some coming up this Fall but that is probably too soon? Is there
> a
> > tentative timeframe for this project? I see a lot of work was done in
> 2014.
>
> We definitely need to talk more to institutions as we make progress,
> yeah. I'll ping when we've reached a good development state for that.
> As for timeline: I am hesitant to make any predictions because there
> are a lot of unknowns - technical and social. For one the Commons
> community has to not think this is a terrible idea ;-)
>
>
Ha!

As long as it doesn't depreciate and force folks onto Wikidata (like
Authority Control) -- if it's so pretty like this one Pharos did, maybe
they could be convinced! :-)

Thanks again, Lydia!

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*
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Re: [Wikidata] first Commons prototype is live \o/

[Brill Lyle]

This is a great development. Not sure if this is helpful to discuss here or
if it is preferrable on the Structured data page? Please advise and I will
copy info there.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Structured_data

In May 2015, Wikimedia NYC supported an editathon with the Guggenheim here
in NYC where the Guggenheim donated 100 images to Wikimedia Commons as part
of a GLAM initiative.
Images:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Guggenheim_Museum_May_2015#Gallery

Pharos added some really great metadata to these image pages, which might
be helpful as a guide for what might be the most deluxe type of Commons
page info breakout -- at least it seems pretty deluxe that to me. :-)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GUGG_Dynamism_of_a_Speeding_Horse_%2B_Houses.jpg

As far as discoverability goes, I think that the use of categories on
Commons is mission critical. I see this requested feature is noted on this
project page. Personally, I don't love the flatness of the category system
on Commons (or Wikipedia actually) because it's not especially faceted, but
I think that this "legacy" issue should be very clearly integrated as this
project develops.There are so many images available on Commons but finding
them is a problem. The file name is often not descriptive enough, and the
metadata might be incomplete or poor. So integration with Wikidata is key,
but again, discoverability is even more important. Otherwise it's just
unlabeled jars on the wall.

And to be a total pain, have existing library resources, like the *A
Thesaurus* from the Getty, been consulted to provide controlled
vocabularies and possible copy catalog potential?
Getty Art & Architecture Thesaurus:
http://www.getty.edu/research/tools/vocabularies/aat/
example: http://vocab.getty.edu/aat/300021368

I'm not a working librarian but I think there are multiple semantic
resources for artwork, especially. I remember this one from grad school

I am cc'ing on of Wikimedia NYC's very active Commons contributor here,
Jim.henderson. I am sure this will be of great interest to folks who
contribute a lot of Commons images and editing.

Well done!

Best,

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:49 PM, David Cuenca Tudela 
> wrote:
> > Fantastic! Is the data from the mediainfo supposed to appear on the file
> > page? Or is it meant to be independent?
>
> The plan is to merge it into the file page.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
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> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
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Re: [Wikidata] Geo-coordinates?

[Brill Lyle]

Thanks so much Stas. Apologies for not following up sooner.

I think in order for this to work, we would need to create Wikidata pages
that link to Wikipedia:Meetup event pages, I think.

1. Is this possible?

2. Do other chapters do this?

We don't typically use Meta #shudder for event pages so it's all on-Wiki
(en-Wiki) for maximum editor onboarding. So that might be an advantage.

Thanks again for the links and assistance.

Best,

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 4:43 PM, Stas Malyshev 
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> > How does one access and/or apply coordinates on Wikidata?
>
> There are properties that have coordinate values. The most important is
> P625. See:
>
> https://tools.wmflabs.org/sqid/#/browse?activepage=1=properties=en=9:GlobeCoordinate
>
> > I would like to add these or figure out a way to create a pathway
> > between Wiki pages with coordinates and Wikidata. We use coordinates on
>
> I think a bot could definitely do that, and e.g. pywikibot has classes
> to create/edit coordinate values.
>
> > Also, saw some weird red Lua errors on this page.
> >
> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Summary_table
>
> This page is kind of hard to use (and huge, probably that's why Lua is
> unhappy) - I'd recommend using a tool like SQUID above
> (https://tools.wmflabs.org/sqid) - much nicer way to approach it IMO.
>
> --
> Stas Malyshev
> smalys...@wikimedia.org
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[Wikidata] Geo-coordinates?

[Brill Lyle]

Hi,

Saw mention of the Geo-coordinates feature being live on the IRC chat today.

Apologies if this is a dumb question:

How does one access and/or apply coordinates on Wikidata?

I would like to add these or figure out a way to create a pathway between
Wiki pages with coordinates and Wikidata. We use coordinates on most of our
event pages and thought it could be fun to create maps or something
Plus one of the editors in our chapter geotags everything and is a heavy
Commons user so thought it would be fun for him too

Also, saw some weird red Lua errors on this page.

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Summary_table

Best,

- Erika

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Re: [Wikidata] Verifiability and living people

[Brill Lyle]

These are great -- and love the videos. THANK YOU -- dreams can come true!
:-)

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Magnus Manske 
wrote:

> Sure, maybe it gets more people involved in coding as well. Having thigs
> show up in a "proper" way after dropping would be nice, but I'd have no
> idea where to start.
> Speaking of: Do I suggest that new gadget on Phabricator, or a Wikidata
> page?
>
> Actually, I made that script a while ago, but it broke after an UI change;
> that's what I meant by "fixed". I even have YouTube HOWTOs:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRYEjmoDkLQ
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP-qJIkjPf0
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew7oGEhtTPI
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 7:34 PM Lydia Pintscher <
> lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Magnus Manske
>>  wrote:
>> > OK, this thread seems appropriate, so I just fixed up one of my
>> scripts, it
>> > lets you
>> > *drag'n'drop references between statements
>> > *drag'n'drop URL references from Wikipedia (sidebar preview) onto
>> statements
>> > *drag'n'drop Wikipedia links as new statements (asks for a property to
>> use)
>> >
>> > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske/dragref.js
>>
>> \o/
>>
>> > Maybe it helps, a little.
>>
>> It definitely does!
>> Time to make it a gadget maybe?
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Lydia
>>
>> --
>> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
>> Product Manager for Wikidata
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
>> 10963 Berlin
>> www.wikimedia.de
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>>
>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
>> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
>> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Verifiability and living people

[Brill Lyle]

My concern is that I don't want to bring up anything that might be even a
little negative or critical -- as I think this is a delicate issue that
could have a real blow-back effect on Wikidata.

It would be framed from a constructive perspective, and would reference
these upcoming tools, but what happens in the meantime? A shutdown of
aspects of Wikidata? I wouldn't want to be part of that, as I support
Wikidata.

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

>
>
> General remark for everyone in this thread: I encourage you all to
> discuss here but if you care about the outcome of the RfC please go
> and add your opinion there. What is on the RfC page is what determines
> the outcome of the RfC.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
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> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Verifiability and living people

[Brill Lyle]

These are great, important suggestions. But like with the library science
resources, it seems like Wikidata is again trying to re-invent an existing
wheel. Why are the existing tools in Wikipedia not being migrated and/or
pathway'd into Wikidata? The stripping of Wikipedia citations to push it to
Wikidata often / always (?) denudes the information of what is a very
rigorous requirement on Wiki.

I love the Citoid option, or whatever has been deployed for the Wiki Markup
editor when you put an ISBN number, OCLC number, or NYTimes URL into the
lookups there. There is no interchangeability with Wikidata though?

#WikiCite :-)

Agree on the {{citation needed}} button, Finn! ha!

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>*

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Magnus Manske <magnusman...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> While the proposal of all statements requiring citation is obviously
> overshooting, I believe we all agree that more/better citations improve
> Wikidata.
> One component here would be a social one, namely that it first becomes
> good practice, then the default, to cite statements.
> For that, improved technology and new approaches are required. Suggestions
> include:
> * Open a blank reference box when adding a statement in the default
> editor, thus subtly prompting a reference
> * Show a "smart field" for reference adding, e.g. just paste a URL, and it
> registers it's an URL, suggests a title from the page at the URL, adds
> access date, suggests other data that can be inferred from the URL or the
> linked page, shows likely other fields (e.g. "author" or such) for easy
> fill-in
> * Automatically add references for statements via external IDs. I have a
> bot that does that to some degree, but it could use productizing
> * Tools to "migrate" Wikipedia references to the actual sources. (Again, I
> have some, but...)
> * "Reference mode", to quickly add references to statements. (I have a
> drag'n'drop script, but that breaks on every Wikidata UI update)
> * A list of items/statements that are in "priority need" for referencing.
> For example, death dates of the recently deceased should be simple, while
> they are still in the news.
> * Dedicated drives to complete a "set" (e.g. all women chemists), that is,
> have all statements references in those items
> * Special watchlist for new statements without reference, especially on
> otherwise "completely referenced" items
>
> Magnus
>
> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 2:56 PM Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> *blanket, not blanked...
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Verifiability and living people

[Brill Lyle]

*blanket, not blanked...
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Re: [Wikidata] Verifiability and living people

[Brill Lyle]

I understand the intention behind the RFC but it's pretty clear that if
enforced these changes would effectively ruin Wikidata. This underlying
issue is that Wikidata does not have a good enough mechanism to fully cite
the way Wikipedia does, and even Wikipedia does not require the type of
granularity that would be needed to support every statement -- it would be
impossible. In Wikipedia you can cite paragraphs and be relatively safe.

I think this is why it is even more critical that it is possible to add
really robust, clean citations (not just URLs) to Wikidata. It needs to be
better because the validity of BLP concerns is not a trivial thing.

This whole issue is why I am obsessed with adding citations on Wikipedia.
If I add information I always try to cite it -- otherwise it has typically
been deleted. This often makes editing difficult, but how can this
requirement be made of the encyclopedias, Wikimedia Commons, etc. and not
of Wikidata? I understand a blanked CC0 or whathaveyou of a data set. But
for a lot of content -- but biographical entries especially? That's a
problem.

Not trying to be a pain and I want to support the consensus on this RFC but
hesitate to do so without further discussion of solutions.

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle *

On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 5:39 AM, Andy Mabbett 
wrote:

> The current RfC:
>
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Verifiability_and_living_persons
>
> would make massive changes to the way Wikidata operates (for all
> content, not just that about living people)
>
> Very few people have commented. I urge everyone to read the proposals,
> and to make their views known, as I have just done.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikidata] editing from Wikipedia and co

[Brill Lyle]

This is a wishlist item for me -- to have an editable form to input
Wikidata-friendly data while on Wikipedia -- so I am very happy to see this
analysis, especially as it seems to focus on usability and end-user
perspectives.

I hope equal weight is given to both the Visual Editor and the Wiki Markup
one. I also hope that the interface form is similar in behavior and style
to the current forms (i.e., RefToolbar's Cite forms) -- as it would be a
shame to reinvent the wheel, and would encourage onboarding of the
interface if it looked like something editors have seen.

While I have an ongoing obsession with citations and machine-readable
pipe-heavy templates like the Infobox, I would suspect that Wikipedia
editors are very amenable to and recognize the importance of citations and
supporting references for data on Wikipedia. That could and ideally should
translate to similar approaches on Wikidata. So when I put a birth date on
a biographical entry on Wikipedia, I need to provide a supporting citation.
The same should be true for Wikidata. Unless I am missing something here.

So although the scale might be overwhelming, I would like to see every
element on Wikidata supported by a citation.

Very exciting work. Any ideas on the timeframe for potential
implementation, Lydia?

Best,

- Erika

*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* 
Secretary, Wikimedia NYC


On Mon, May 30, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Hey folks :)
>
> Charlie has been working on concepts for making it possible to edit
> Wikidata from Wikipedia and other wikis. This was her bachelor thesis. She
> has now published it:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Facilitating_the_use_of_Wikidata_in_Wikimedia_projects_with_a_user-centered_design_approach.pdf
> I am very happy she put a lot of thought and work into figuring out all
> the complexities of the topic and how to make this understandable for
> editors. We still have more work to do on the concepts and then actually
> have to implement it. Comments welcome.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] WDQS URL shortener

[Brill Lyle]

For many events at Wikimedia NYC, we use a shortcut -- once you're on
Wikipedia -- like "WP:Harlem" also known as "Wikipedia:Harlem"

The redirect (before it redirects):
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Harlem=no

Redirects to the Schomburg editathon we held earlier this year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Schomburg

I understand why URL shorteners are non ideal. I support that I guess.
These Wikipedia shortcuts have been very helpful although they probably
don't work across projects. Another reason to avoid Meta #sigh

Best,

- Erika



*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* 
Secretary, Wikimedia NYC


On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Dario Taraborelli <
dtarabore...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
>
>> Dario Taraborelli, 01/06/2016 10:33:
>>
>>> I don't, it probably depends on what shorteners are most used for spam
>>> purposes across Wikimedia projects. Maybe someone familiar with URL
>>> blacklisting from major wikis can comment?
>>>
>>
>> Nearly all URL shorteners get blacklisted, eventually.
>
>
> that makes sense. It sounds like in the short term (and until we have a
> Wikimedia-operated shortener), using full URLs from WDQS is – alas – the
> only way to go. One option we haven't mentioned would be for WDQS itself to
> support URL shortening, I have no idea where that would sit in terms of
> priorities.
>
> Dario
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Nemo
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] [Wikimedia-l] ArticlePlaceholder now live on first 4 Wikipedias

[Brill Lyle]

This is a tool that will be really useful to the AfroCROWD initiative that
Alice Backer leads (cc'd, as well as Pharos) -- especially for the Haitian
Creole community.

I'm hoping AfroCROWD and WM NYC can support an intensive translatathon
focusing on Wikidata, and really take advantage of this great resource.

Wonderful work!

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* 
Secretary, Wikimedia NYC


On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Lydia Pintscher <
lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Hi everyone :)
>
> Last year Lucie started working on the ArticlePlaceholder (
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ArticlePlaceholder) in order to
> fullfill Wikidata's promise of supporting especially the smaller
> Wikipedias. Today we have rolled it out on the first 4 Wikipedias:
> Esperanto, Haitian Creole, Neapolitan and Odia. When someone searches for a
> topic where no local article exists but Wikidata has data we will show an
> ArticlePlaceholder with this information and encourage the reader to create
> an article. I hope this will help these Wikipedias by offering their
> readers more content and by turning more of them into active editors.
>
> In order for the feature to work well we need labels for items and
> properties in these languages on Wikidata. A lot exist already but if you
> want to help out you can find items and properties that need labels in
> these languages at https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-terminator and
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:ListProperties.
>
> What we rolled out today as usual is a first version. Based on the feedback
> from those 4 Wikipedias we will expand and improve it. One of the next
> things we will do is add the option to translate an article from another
> language if it exists using the Content Translation tool and fix known
> bugs. Things we know are still broken or need work:
> * language fallbacks in the properties are not working so you will see a
> lot of P1234 and so on until a label is added on Wikidata in that language
> * long identifiers break out of the identifier box on the right side and
> don't look good
> * right now you only get an ArticlePlaceholder in the search results when
> Wikidata has at least 3 links to other Wikimedia projects and 3 statements.
> We might need to tweak this number still based on feedback from the first
> Wikipedias. We limit this in order to not encourage readers to create an
> article that will be deleted right after they created it because it isn't
> notable.
>
> Here are some example pages:
> * Odia:
>
> https://or.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%AC%AC%E0%AC%BF%E0%AC%B6%E0%AD%87%E0%AC%B7:AboutTopic?entityid=Q131074
> * Napolitan:
> https://nap.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speci%C3%A0le:AboutTopic?entityid=Q2613697
> * Esperanto:
> https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciala%C4%B5o:AboutTopic?entityid=Q12345
> * Haitian Creole:
> https://ht.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espesyal:AboutTopic?entityid=Q12345
>
> I'm really excited about making true on one of Wikidata's biggest promises.
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Product Manager for Wikidata
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
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Re: [Wikidata] Aren't pages too long?

[Brill Lyle]

Not really what I was asking. I understand the URI and what the permalink
does/is.

But thanks anyway.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* 
Secretary, Wikimedia NYC


On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 1:21 PM, Young,Jeff (OR)  wrote:

> The canonical form for VIAF URIs is http://viaf.org/viaf/66488489. That’s
> the form used in the VIAF linked data and informally declared on the HTML
> page as the “Permalink”:
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Aren't pages too long?

[Brill Lyle]

That would be great, very helpful. Would this be a problematic value exists
check, in terms of creating a lag in responsiveness?

I am also not clear on the fact that one of the Authority Control elements
is populating in the top Statements section vs. the lower Identifiers
section --

i.e., *ISNI* for https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1160089

I wanted to update Father Berrigan's Authority Control and am having a
really difficult time knowing what the best practices are -- if best
practices exist -- for the reference area of Wikidata Identifiers. I would
pull from the bottom "History" section here on VIAF --
https://viaf.org/viaf/66488489/#Berrigan,_Daniel. -- as the reference for
these.

It's probably me thinking of references as they exist on Wikipedia vs. how
they exist on Wikidata. But I've seen references on Wikidata presented in
different ways, so wasn't sure.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>
Secretary, Wikimedia NYC
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC>

On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 8:15 AM, Andrew Gray <andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 3 May 2016 at 17:47, Brill Lyle <wp.brilll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As someone very intimidated and overwhelmed by the Wikidata interface, I
> > agree the list of elements is too long. I was trying to update Authority
> > Control for a Wikipedia entry and it was a lot of scrolling around to
> make
> > sure I wasn't adding duplicates, etc. A Table of Contents would be a huge
>
> A duplicates check seems a good idea - I've wondered about this
> before, having added a lot of duplicate values in the past!
>
> A quick UI suggestion - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T134371 -
> any thoughts?
>
> --
> - Andrew Gray
>   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
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Re: [Wikidata] Aren't pages too long?

[Brill Lyle]

As someone very intimidated and overwhelmed by the Wikidata interface, I
agree the list of elements is too long. I was trying to update Authority
Control for a Wikipedia entry and it was a lot of scrolling around to make
sure I wasn't adding duplicates, etc. A Table of Contents would be a huge
help, especially if it was similar in behavior to the existing Wikipedia
TOC model that Wikipedians are used to seeing.

Disagree that this is "fundamentally an impossible UI task." The example
Reasonator with Sources and Files selected is pretty danged nice!

My biggest gripe with Wikidata is the UI, as it seems like both a
functional (too long, intimidating) as well as visual (clunky, complicated,
not super pretty) barrier. There are solutions to these barriers, although
I understand the solutions are not trivial.

While the focus of Wikidata is clearly on data and responsiveness,
necessitating UI and a focus on the more non-tech users is a lower
priority, I am glad it is part of the ongoing conversation.

- Erika


*Erika Herzog*
Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle* 
Secretary, Wikimedia NYC


On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Benjamin Good 
wrote:

> I think no one would disagree that the current viewing experience on the
> main wikidata.org interface is not ideal.  Keep in mind though that this
> is fundamentally an impossible UI task.
>
>>
>> On 3 May 2016 at 13:07, David Abián  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think that most elements on Wikidata are nowadays too long to be
>>> easily read by humans. There are many properties (which is great), the
>>> information is too scattered, and this problem (if you consider it a
>>> problem) will continue growing up.
>>>
>>>
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