Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
How about POE on Rucus. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:36 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Jack, Yes. They use multi-element / multi-antenna, adaptive beam forming, along with some very nifty smart mesh. We replaced 10 buffalo's running dd-wrt (for a large sorrority house / about 60 + active College Students) with 3 Ruckus AP's. Our site survey showed that two would cover it , but we decided to put in the 3rd as a 'filler'. Two AP's are wired (as root) and 3rd AP is a Mesh. The buffalo's would choke once every 10-20 days, requiring some TLC... The Rucks AP' have been Setup and forget about them If it was not for a power outage we would been seeing about 120 + days straight up time. They also do some neat 'firewalling' within the unit.. We are using a mode that allows the Clients (notebook users) to get IP's from the LAN side of the AP's, and ONLY ACCESS THE INTERNET... They cannot access any IP's on the LAN side of the AP's. This is the G stuff.. Their N models with the new software are even more impressive.. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Miracle of miracles! Do the Ruckus model(s) that you use have antenna diversity built in (like they used to) ? CHUCK PROFITO wrote: I agree with snappy, the Ruckus units PENETRATE and lock on with no multipath issues. We use them for difficult or large home and business wireless. We have had some in for over a year with no problems. They will even sort out and use a reflection ! Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:47 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Have you tried a RuckusWirelss AP (they make an outdoor unit as well). They are a bit more expensive, but after you get over that pain, you might not want to go back to anything else. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappydsl.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Steve, Actually I have more of a mountain of the outdoor units. I used a skid and fork lift to get them to the dumpster. Though my real problem with these radios is their inability to work well for a long duration of time with most laptops and their inability to work well whatsoever with Intel wireless cards. Regardless of who's fault it is - Engenius or Intel - Intel is in laptops, Engenius needs to adapt to this. Charles, These will be indoor installs so the durability and operating conditions are not a big deal to me. I am interested in knowing if anyone has deployed them in a hotel/hotspot, though! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Josh Luthman wrote: I am looking to see what other members use for indoor access points. Primarily I'm looking for a residential install and hotels. I've been using the Senao/Engenius equipment for quite a while but I have encountered several issues over the years and I am hoping to find a replacement low-cost product. Ubiquity NanoStation2. Works great. There are cheaper options like the Loco or Pico. I like the durability and operating conditions of the outdoor one and find it worth the extra 50.00. Is it just me or is it fast becomingno matter the 802.11a/b/g 2.4/5Ghz hardware need the answer is Ubiquity :) They seem to be pretty cool. - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
Zoneflex AP's are PoE 802.3af compliant. You can also use an AC adapter. Steve if your interested in a quote hit me offlist Daniel White 3-dB Networks -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points How about POE on Rucus. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:36 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Jack, Yes. They use multi-element / multi-antenna, adaptive beam forming, along with some very nifty smart mesh. We replaced 10 buffalo's running dd-wrt (for a large sorrority house / about 60 + active College Students) with 3 Ruckus AP's. Our site survey showed that two would cover it , but we decided to put in the 3rd as a 'filler'. Two AP's are wired (as root) and 3rd AP is a Mesh. The buffalo's would choke once every 10-20 days, requiring some TLC... The Rucks AP' have been Setup and forget about them If it was not for a power outage we would been seeing about 120 + days straight up time. They also do some neat 'firewalling' within the unit.. We are using a mode that allows the Clients (notebook users) to get IP's from the LAN side of the AP's, and ONLY ACCESS THE INTERNET... They cannot access any IP's on the LAN side of the AP's. This is the G stuff.. Their N models with the new software are even more impressive.. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Miracle of miracles! Do the Ruckus model(s) that you use have antenna diversity built in (like they used to) ? CHUCK PROFITO wrote: I agree with snappy, the Ruckus units PENETRATE and lock on with no multipath issues. We use them for difficult or large home and business wireless. We have had some in for over a year with no problems. They will even sort out and use a reflection ! Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:47 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Have you tried a RuckusWirelss AP (they make an outdoor unit as well). They are a bit more expensive, but after you get over that pain, you might not want to go back to anything else. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappydsl.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Steve, Actually I have more of a mountain of the outdoor units. I used a skid and fork lift to get them to the dumpster. Though my real problem with these radios is their inability to work well for a long duration of time with most laptops and their inability to work well whatsoever with Intel wireless cards. Regardless of who's fault it is - Engenius or Intel - Intel is in laptops, Engenius needs to adapt to this. Charles, These will be indoor installs so the durability and operating conditions are not a big deal to me. I am interested in knowing if anyone has deployed them in a hotel/hotspot, though! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Josh Luthman wrote: I am looking to see what other members use for indoor access points. Primarily I'm looking for a residential install and hotels. I've been using the Senao/Engenius equipment for quite a while but I have encountered several issues over the years and I am hoping to find a replacement low-cost product. Ubiquity NanoStation2. Works great. There are cheaper options like the Loco or Pico. I like the durability and operating conditions of the outdoor one and find it worth the extra 50.00. Is it just me or is it fast becomingno matter the 802.11a/b/g 2.4/5Ghz hardware need the answer is Ubiquity :) They seem to be pretty cool. - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Device Demand
Responses inline. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Kevin Suitor wrote: Folks, Just would like to run an informal poll to determine the market for Fixed White Spaces devices over the next 2 - 3 years. If you could reply (offlist preferred) to this request I'd like to pass the demand over to our product line managers who set product development priority. 512 - 698 MHz White Spaces Demand Expected Street Price On par with Canopy 900 MHz or Alvarion 900 MHz, assuming non-802.11 based architecture. Upper Bound 2009 2010 2011 PTP Links Probably unnecessary Access Points $1500 CPE $300 Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Marketing Business Development Cell: +1 416.508.1252 Phone: +1 905.948.2299 Skype: ksuitor Fax: +1 647.723.0451 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA www.redlinecommunications.com http://www.redlinecommunications.com/ Leading the WiMAX Revolution with RedMAX(tm) Advanced Broadband Wireless Solutions See Redline at the following events: WiMAX Forum Congress Latin America 2008 http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001B9yZFzm6BqlMrJ1Vy3lrwoT7LGK8M4NYXaP0UgkeTfvI aA9Pop9_LNknIzwkIJryK-eDv2Dd-EsSDnPLq2Rg99PXry8ik586UMDqW6PhMojMoGqCyj6w -JQKXAtl63BqYu8ouSCT178= December 3 - 4, 2008 The Windsor Barra Hotel Rio De Janeiro, Brazil WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
The Zoneflex 2942 (G) 7942 (N) units support POE. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points How about POE on Rucus. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:36 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Jack, Yes. They use multi-element / multi-antenna, adaptive beam forming, along with some very nifty smart mesh. We replaced 10 buffalo's running dd-wrt (for a large sorrority house / about 60 + active College Students) with 3 Ruckus AP's. Our site survey showed that two would cover it , but we decided to put in the 3rd as a 'filler'. Two AP's are wired (as root) and 3rd AP is a Mesh. The buffalo's would choke once every 10-20 days, requiring some TLC... The Rucks AP' have been Setup and forget about them If it was not for a power outage we would been seeing about 120 + days straight up time. They also do some neat 'firewalling' within the unit.. We are using a mode that allows the Clients (notebook users) to get IP's from the LAN side of the AP's, and ONLY ACCESS THE INTERNET... They cannot access any IP's on the LAN side of the AP's. This is the G stuff.. Their N models with the new software are even more impressive.. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Miracle of miracles! Do the Ruckus model(s) that you use have antenna diversity built in (like they used to) ? CHUCK PROFITO wrote: I agree with snappy, the Ruckus units PENETRATE and lock on with no multipath issues. We use them for difficult or large home and business wireless. We have had some in for over a year with no problems. They will even sort out and use a reflection ! Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:47 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Have you tried a RuckusWirelss AP (they make an outdoor unit as well). They are a bit more expensive, but after you get over that pain, you might not want to go back to anything else. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappydsl.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 3:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points Steve, Actually I have more of a mountain of the outdoor units. I used a skid and fork lift to get them to the dumpster. Though my real problem with these radios is their inability to work well for a long duration of time with most laptops and their inability to work well whatsoever with Intel wireless cards. Regardless of who's fault it is - Engenius or Intel - Intel is in laptops, Engenius needs to adapt to this. Charles, These will be indoor installs so the durability and operating conditions are not a big deal to me. I am interested in knowing if anyone has deployed them in a hotel/hotspot, though! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Charles Wyble [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Josh Luthman wrote: I am looking to see what other members use for indoor access points. Primarily I'm looking for a residential install and hotels. I've been using the Senao/Engenius equipment for quite a while but I have encountered several issues over the years and I am hoping to find a replacement low-cost product. Ubiquity NanoStation2. Works great. There are cheaper options like the Loco or Pico. I like the durability and operating conditions of the outdoor one and find it worth the extra 50.00. Is it just me or is it fast becomingno matter the 802.11a/b/g 2.4/5Ghz hardware need the answer is Ubiquity :) They seem to be pretty cool. - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
Beamforming and SmartMesh... Specifically beamforming though since other companies have Meshing. Plus their price point is lower then the other enterprise class WLAN systems. Mikrotik is going to be for the places that can't afford Ruckus, but if you have to deploy less overall AP's, Ruckus might come out ahead in the long run too (for instance the already stated example of replacing 10 AP's with 3AP's) Daniel White 3-dB Networks -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, 3-dB Networks wrote: I would choose Ruckus hands down What, specifically, about Ruckus would make you believe this? This question is not a jab. I'd really like to know. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
Oh and Dynamic PSK is pretty cool too Daniel White 3-dB Networks -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, 3-dB Networks wrote: I would choose Ruckus hands down What, specifically, about Ruckus would make you believe this? This question is not a jab. I'd really like to know. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
For residential, I'd probably go TrendNet. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:21 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points I am looking to see what other members use for indoor access points. Primarily I'm looking for a residential install and hotels. I've been using the Senao/Engenius equipment for quite a while but I have encountered several issues over the years and I am hoping to find a replacement low-cost product. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65
I believe Mark in... Oregon has done so. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Joel White [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:38 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65 Anyone out there using the Ubiquiti 3.65 legally registered with the FCC? Any ups or downs or knowledge you care to share? TIA Best Regards, Joel NexGenAccess Inc. www.nexgenaccess.com 740-513-4122 NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz
All I can come up with is the 83 MHz at 2.4 GHz and the... 28? MHz at 900 MHz. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz Hi All, In reading the FCC's TV whitespaces report and order I came across this statement: Supporters of a licensed approach also hold that there is no need for additional spectrum for unlicensed devices. In this regard, Qualcomm submits that there is no evidence that consumers have had to return unlicensed devices because the unlicensed spectrum is too crowded.48 The Association for Maximum Service Television and the National Association of Broadcasters, in joint comments (MSTV/NAB), add there is over 100 megahertz of unlicensed spectrum below 2 GHz and that 255 MHz of spectrum in the 5 GHz band was made available for unlicensed use in 2003 and so there is plenty of spectrum available for unlicensed use.49 The White Space Coalition counters these arguments, stating that the propagation characteristics of the TV band are superior to the other unlicensed bands for many applications and that none of the other unlicensed spectrum is below 900 MHz Um, where is there 100mhz of unlicensed spectrum between 900mhz and 2 gig? What's available that I haven't been using yet? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
We'll be allowed to go all the way down to channel 2. 3, 37 and a couple of others are disallowed. I'm still reading the nprm for the first time. 130 pages of very interesting stuff. There is a lot of background and what people filed in there so far. It also talks a lot about the goals of the commission in regards to the whitespaces uses. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
Many reasons: Technical reasons: Commercial Grade Hardware with a very stable Radio / router POE Support, Mesh Support, Smart Antenna, ability to 'focus' around intereference. All the basic + enhanced config requirements for WLAN, Security / Authentication / Hotspot / Mesh etc built in. Asthetic Reasons: Does not look like an electronic piece of equipment. Blends into the 'décor' looks like a dome light, very neutral. Business Reasons: Very easy to configure, install, maintain. Self healing when deployed with ZoneFlex. Does have a centralized management capabilities (Not cheap in any sense of the word). And most of all... It does not require a highly qualified Technical person to maintain after installed. Needless to say, works very stable and consistent, ends up making a very tough argument about ROI on the extra spending. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, 3-dB Networks wrote: I would choose Ruckus hands down What, specifically, about Ruckus would make you believe this? This question is not a jab. I'd really like to know. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] IP Pay / CTI in the News -- Check Out
ISPCON: An ISP Industry that Processes Credit Cards Charles Wu and Layne Sisk say that ISPs can now serve a greater number of small businesses and cut out the credit card middle men. by Alex Goldman ISP-Planet Managing Editor [November 11, 2008] Orem, Utah-based ServerPlushttp://www.serverplus.com is an ISPCON regular. The company, founded in 2000/2001, provides a variety of services to ISPs. As the ISP business gets tougher, ServerPlus does what it can to stay ahead of the game. So I'm checking in with Layne Sisk, president of ServerPlus, to find out what's new. The economy is tough, but Salt Lake City's tech suburbs, a corporate center of excellence dating back to the founding of Novell and WordPerfect, is doing better than much of the rest of the country. The key to gaining ground even in tough times is to always be offering new services. IP Pay Sisk is very enthusiastic about IP Pay, the service that Charles Wu of CTI discussed in detail at Spring ISPCON. When we moved our own merchant processing to IP Pay, we saved $1,000 per month in credit card processing. Now Sisk is using the IP Pay channel program to sell credit card processing to his customers. http://www.isp-planet.com/news/2008/ispcon+credit+card.html This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone at 630-344-1586. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
The zoneflex centralized management. If this system goes down, does the entire wireless network go down or does the AP use the last known good configuration? Can the software configure the Wireless nodes via wireless, or does it require a wired connection? ryan Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Many reasons: Technical reasons: Commercial Grade Hardware with a very stable Radio / router POE Support, Mesh Support, Smart Antenna, ability to 'focus' around intereference. All the basic + enhanced config requirements for WLAN, Security / Authentication / Hotspot / Mesh etc built in. Asthetic Reasons: Does not look like an electronic piece of equipment. Blends into the 'décor' looks like a dome light, very neutral. Business Reasons: Very easy to configure, install, maintain. Self healing when deployed with ZoneFlex. Does have a centralized management capabilities (Not cheap in any sense of the word). And most of all... It does not require a highly qualified Technical person to maintain after installed. Needless to say, works very stable and consistent, ends up making a very tough argument about ROI on the extra spending. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, 3-dB Networks wrote: I would choose Ruckus hands down What, specifically, about Ruckus would make you believe this? This question is not a jab. I'd really like to know. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
Channels 3, 4, and 37 are excluded no matter what. Fixed users cannot use an adjacent channel (at this time) and are permitted between 2 and 51, with a power limit of 4 watts EIRP. Personal portable users are restricted to channels 21 - 51. 100 mw of power, but are to use 40 mw on channels adjacent to licensed users. Page 2 of the RO. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:40 PM To: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
All of our local TV stations (3, 8,10,11,12 14) have all completed their transition to DTV. They are still broadcasting analog as well and will continue to do so until the deadline. Those who have not completed their transition by the deadline Feb 17, 2009 will possibly face a huge fine from what I have read. http://www.dtv.gov/ Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1794 - Release Date: 11/19/2008 8:58 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
Something to this effect is mentioned in the second (and most recent) TVWS RO. I forget the details, but there's a few different types of TV repeaters. I would imagine legally they may not be required to, but their contract with the network may require them to (in order to support HD). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:31 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
A channel 2 yagi is not something you can throw in the back of your installer vehicle. I have installed 4 X 6 element channel 2 yagi arrays before. (14 dBi) You couldn't fit them in this office I am sitting in right now. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool We'll be allowed to go all the way down to channel 2. 3, 37 and a couple of others are disallowed. I'm still reading the nprm for the first time. 130 pages of very interesting stuff. There is a lot of background and what people filed in there so far. It also talks a lot about the goals of the commission in regards to the whitespaces uses. marlon - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
Lower Power TV and Translators (they are pretty much the same license) are Exempt. However most of them are conveying the signal of a larger network station. The larger network station will want the translator chain to be digital if they can. Many of the translators in Utah have a digital unit running now and may switch off the analog signal when the day comes. HDTV translators were essentially invented here in Utah by Maury Parsons working with Zenith and the ATSC. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:31 AM Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
The management system is just the management system. It polls / monitors / and programs the config on the AP's. AP's can be used stand alone... (Smart Mesh requires the Zoneflex... To monitor make changes automatically). Short answer to your question about configuring the Node via Wireless Is YES. We are using their 6.0 software on the Zoneflex controller, it needs layer2 access to the AP. If you want to configure an AP via wireless, first plug it in to a wired connection, 'register' it to the zoneflex and then disconnect and move to a non-wired location .. The rest of the reconfig / config is done via wireless. With 7.0 software they don't need layer2 access to the AP.. Zone Flex can manage Ap's via ip. I have not played with this yet The biger Centralized Management system is software running on a linux box, that would talk to AP's and other Zoneflex controllers via IP, and allows for centralized management for a service provider. ( Have not played with this one either) Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points The zoneflex centralized management. If this system goes down, does the entire wireless network go down or does the AP use the last known good configuration? Can the software configure the Wireless nodes via wireless, or does it require a wired connection? ryan Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Many reasons: Technical reasons: Commercial Grade Hardware with a very stable Radio / router POE Support, Mesh Support, Smart Antenna, ability to 'focus' around intereference. All the basic + enhanced config requirements for WLAN, Security / Authentication / Hotspot / Mesh etc built in. Asthetic Reasons: Does not look like an electronic piece of equipment. Blends into the 'décor' looks like a dome light, very neutral. Business Reasons: Very easy to configure, install, maintain. Self healing when deployed with ZoneFlex. Does have a centralized management capabilities (Not cheap in any sense of the word). And most of all... It does not require a highly qualified Technical person to maintain after installed. Needless to say, works very stable and consistent, ends up making a very tough argument about ROI on the extra spending. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, 3-dB Networks wrote: I would choose Ruckus hands down What, specifically, about Ruckus would make you believe this? This question is not a jab. I'd really like to know. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/ * Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
The RO states what each type of station is and what it does. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? George, What do you mean by term 'translator'(is that the brunette between the blond and redhead?) Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz
Don't forget about the spectrum for things like garage door openers (I think it's around 433 MHz), baby monitors and cordless phones in the 49 MHz range and probably others I am forgetting. They were talking about all unlicensed consumer devices, not just wireless networking stuff. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz All I can come up with is the 83 MHz at 2.4 GHz and the... 28? MHz at 900 MHz. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] unlicensed under 2ghz Hi All, In reading the FCC's TV whitespaces report and order I came across this statement: Supporters of a licensed approach also hold that there is no need for additional spectrum for unlicensed devices. In this regard, Qualcomm submits that there is no evidence that consumers have had to return unlicensed devices because the unlicensed spectrum is too crowded.48 The Association for Maximum Service Television and the National Association of Broadcasters, in joint comments (MSTV/NAB), add there is over 100 megahertz of unlicensed spectrum below 2 GHz and that 255 MHz of spectrum in the 5 GHz band was made available for unlicensed use in 2003 and so there is plenty of spectrum available for unlicensed use.49 The White Space Coalition counters these arguments, stating that the propagation characteristics of the TV band are superior to the other unlicensed bands for many applications and that none of the other unlicensed spectrum is below 900 MHz Um, where is there 100mhz of unlicensed spectrum between 900mhz and 2 gig? What's available that I haven't been using yet? marlon -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
Perhaps the question was a little more general. A TV translator is nothing more than a repeater. For example channel 6 would be received, translated to channel 55 and retransmitted. Normally they were VHF in and UHF out. Low power. 2 to 200 watts. Out west, where we have lots of mountain ranges and valleys, this is the way TV got piped around. Some special tax districts were formed to finance the operations of translator installations. Many small towns would have a building on a nearby hilltop with a half dozen translators inside. In some cases translators were daisy chained 3 or 4 deep. In other areas, groups of TV broadcasters got together and financed the translators. I would suspect that even if a translator operator isn't going to change to HDTV, they will most likely feed the input of their translator with a signal derived from and HDTV signal. That will produce much better quality than they ever had before. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? The RO states what each type of station is and what it does. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? George, What do you mean by term 'translator'(is that the brunette between the blond and redhead?) Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
Also channel 4 is disallowed. Does anybody know what the 13 major markets are (related to PLMPS radios)? Marlon, it sounds like you are plowing thru it at the same rate I am. -John On Nov 19, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: We'll be allowed to go all the way down to channel 2. 3, 37 and a couple of others are disallowed. I'm still reading the nprm for the first time. 130 pages of very interesting stuff. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
I used to live in a small town in Northern California. Every few months, one of the 4 translators they had running on the ridgetop would get crystal-clear while the other 3 would be fuzzy as hell. Finally I asked the locals about it. It seems you are not a local in that town unless you have been there at least 20+ years. The locals told me that the good translator is used for whatever sporting season it was! So Baseball was on Channel X so it got the good translator that season, then when football started on channel Y it would get the good translator. I love small towns! ryan Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps the question was a little more general. A TV translator is nothing more than a repeater. For example channel 6 would be received, translated to channel 55 and retransmitted. Normally they were VHF in and UHF out. Low power. 2 to 200 watts. Out west, where we have lots of mountain ranges and valleys, this is the way TV got piped around. Some special tax districts were formed to finance the operations of translator installations. Many small towns would have a building on a nearby hilltop with a half dozen translators inside. In some cases translators were daisy chained 3 or 4 deep. In other areas, groups of TV broadcasters got together and financed the translators. I would suspect that even if a translator operator isn't going to change to HDTV, they will most likely feed the input of their translator with a signal derived from and HDTV signal. That will produce much better quality than they ever had before. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? The RO states what each type of station is and what it does. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? George, What do you mean by term 'translator'(is that the brunette between the blond and redhead?) Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Device Demand
Patrick, Thank you very much for your inputs. We should be able to hit your pricing targets on CPE; Access points will be higher in the $2500 - $3000 range. Cheers! Kevin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Device Demand Responses inline. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Kevin Suitor wrote: Folks, Just would like to run an informal poll to determine the market for Fixed White Spaces devices over the next 2 - 3 years. If you could reply (offlist preferred) to this request I'd like to pass the demand over to our product line managers who set product development priority. 512 - 698 MHz White Spaces Demand Expected Street Price On par with Canopy 900 MHz or Alvarion 900 MHz, assuming non-802.11 based architecture. Upper Bound 2009 2010 2011 PTP Links Probably unnecessary Access Points $1500 CPE $300 Thanks, Kevin Redline Communications Inc. Kevin Suitor Vice President, Marketing Business Development Cell: +1 416.508.1252 Phone: +1 905.948.2299 Skype: ksuitor Fax: +1 647.723.0451 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 302 Town Centre Blvd. Markham, ON L3R 0E8 CANADA www.redlinecommunications.com http://www.redlinecommunications.com/ Leading the WiMAX Revolution with RedMAX(tm) Advanced Broadband Wireless Solutions See Redline at the following events: WiMAX Forum Congress Latin America 2008 http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001B9yZFzm6BqlMrJ1Vy3lrwoT7LGK8M4NYXaP0UgkeTfvI aA9Pop9_LNknIzwkIJryK-eDv2Dd-EsSDnPLq2Rg99PXry8ik586UMDqW6PhMojMoGqCyj6w -JQKXAtl63BqYu8ouSCT178= December 3 - 4, 2008 The Windsor Barra Hotel Rio De Janeiro, Brazil WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
George, He is correct in that statement. There are exemptions for low power translators. That was one of the reasons I put that big disclaimer in my mapping tool. If you go here you can read about these special cases http://www.fcc.gov/oet/faqs/dtv-tvtx.html. If there will be these situations in your area the tool I sent out does not have the old analog contours loaded in. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 (607) 643-4055 Office (607) 435-3988 Mobile (208) 692-1898 Fax www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
I know one group of farmers and townsfolk that had an ad hoc translator committee that paid for parts and repairs. It wasn't a legal entity, just a group of folks that pooled donations to keep it alive. They would have an annual meeting and fund drive. One year nobody was interested in coming to the meeting due to a particularly interesting football game. The guy in charge went up to the translator, waited for the kick off and pulled the plug while the ball was in the air. People came to the meeting. - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I used to live in a small town in Northern California. Every few months, one of the 4 translators they had running on the ridgetop would get crystal-clear while the other 3 would be fuzzy as hell. Finally I asked the locals about it. It seems you are not a local in that town unless you have been there at least 20+ years. The locals told me that the good translator is used for whatever sporting season it was! So Baseball was on Channel X so it got the good translator that season, then when football started on channel Y it would get the good translator. I love small towns! ryan Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps the question was a little more general. A TV translator is nothing more than a repeater. For example channel 6 would be received, translated to channel 55 and retransmitted. Normally they were VHF in and UHF out. Low power. 2 to 200 watts. Out west, where we have lots of mountain ranges and valleys, this is the way TV got piped around. Some special tax districts were formed to finance the operations of translator installations. Many small towns would have a building on a nearby hilltop with a half dozen translators inside. In some cases translators were daisy chained 3 or 4 deep. In other areas, groups of TV broadcasters got together and financed the translators. I would suspect that even if a translator operator isn't going to change to HDTV, they will most likely feed the input of their translator with a signal derived from and HDTV signal. That will produce much better quality than they ever had before. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? The RO states what each type of station is and what it does. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? George, What do you mean by term 'translator'(is that the brunette between the blond and redhead?) Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points
Tom Sharples wrote: One of our wisp clients (a good size one with around 1K paying clients) has been testing the ns2, and he reports some sort of problem that shows up as a steady loss of preformance over time. They start out working great, but after a few days of continuous operation the net transfer rate drops way down until the unit is power cycled. Memory leak (or maybe a power supply issue)? Interesting. I will let the list know if I encounter any issues with my hot spot deployment. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
Ass. :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I know one group of farmers and townsfolk that had an ad hoc translator committee that paid for parts and repairs. It wasn't a legal entity, just a group of folks that pooled donations to keep it alive. They would have an annual meeting and fund drive. One year nobody was interested in coming to the meeting due to a particularly interesting football game. The guy in charge went up to the translator, waited for the kick off and pulled the plug while the ball was in the air. People came to the meeting. - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I used to live in a small town in Northern California. Every few months, one of the 4 translators they had running on the ridgetop would get crystal-clear while the other 3 would be fuzzy as hell. Finally I asked the locals about it. It seems you are not a local in that town unless you have been there at least 20+ years. The locals told me that the good translator is used for whatever sporting season it was! So Baseball was on Channel X so it got the good translator that season, then when football started on channel Y it would get the good translator. I love small towns! ryan Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps the question was a little more general. A TV translator is nothing more than a repeater. For example channel 6 would be received, translated to channel 55 and retransmitted. Normally they were VHF in and UHF out. Low power. 2 to 200 watts. Out west, where we have lots of mountain ranges and valleys, this is the way TV got piped around. Some special tax districts were formed to finance the operations of translator installations. Many small towns would have a building on a nearby hilltop with a half dozen translators inside. In some cases translators were daisy chained 3 or 4 deep. In other areas, groups of TV broadcasters got together and financed the translators. I would suspect that even if a translator operator isn't going to change to HDTV, they will most likely feed the input of their translator with a signal derived from and HDTV signal. That will produce much better quality than they ever had before. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? The RO states what each type of station is and what it does. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? George, What do you mean by term 'translator'(is that the brunette between the blond and redhead?) Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
Small towns... Mike Hammett wrote: Ass. :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Chuck McCown" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:33 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I know one group of farmers and townsfolk that had an ad hoc translator committee that paid for parts and repairs. It wasn't a legal entity, just a group of folks that pooled donations to keep it alive. They would have an annual meeting and fund drive. One year nobody was interested in coming to the meeting due to a particularly interesting football game. The guy in charge went up to the translator, waited for the kick off and pulled the plug while the ball was in the air. People came to the meeting. - Original Message - From: "D. Ryan Spott" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I used to live in a small town in Northern California. Every few months, one of the 4 translators they had running on the ridgetop would get crystal-clear while the other 3 would be fuzzy as hell. Finally I asked the locals about it. It seems you are not a local in that town unless you have been there at least 20+ years. The locals told me that the "good translator" is used for whatever sporting season it was! So Baseball was on Channel X so it got the good translator that season, then when football started on channel Y it would get the good translator. I love small towns! ryan Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps the question was a little more general. A TV translator is nothing more than a repeater. For example channel 6 would be received, "translated" to channel 55 and retransmitted. Normally they were VHF in and UHF out. Low power. 2 to 200 watts. Out west, where we have lots of mountain ranges and valleys, this is the way TV got piped around. Some special tax districts were formed to finance the operations of translator installations. Many small towns would have a building on a nearby hilltop with a half dozen translators inside. In some cases translators were daisy chained 3 or 4 deep. In other areas, groups of TV broadcasters got together and financed the translators. I would suspect that even if a translator operator isn't going to change to HDTV, they will most likely feed the input of their translator with a signal derived from and HDTV signal. That will produce much better quality than they ever had before. - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? The RO states what each type of station is and what it does. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "CHUCK PROFITO" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? George, What do you mean by term 'translator'(is that the brunette between the blond and redhead?) Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] DTV transition..... FACT or FICTION?
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 09:21:46AM -0800, D. Ryan Spott wrote: I used to live in a small town in Northern California. Every few months, one of the 4 translators they had running on the ridgetop would get crystal-clear while the other 3 would be fuzzy as hell. Finally I asked the locals about it. It seems you are not a local in that town unless you have been there at least 20+ years. The locals told me that the good translator is used for whatever sporting season it was! For the most part, you're not a local around here unless you have either lived through the great depression here, or you were raised by locals. In Maine, there are a few low power tv stations that appear to be religious channel repeaters. None are near me, so I can't confirm. So Baseball was on Channel X so it got the good translator that season, then when football started on channel Y it would get the good translator. I love small towns! ryan Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps the question was a little more general. A TV translator is nothing more than a repeater. For example channel 6 would be received, translated to channel 55 and retransmitted. Normally they were VHF in and UHF out. Low power. 2 to 200 watts. Out west, where we have lots of mountain ranges and valleys, this is the way TV got piped around. Some special tax districts were formed to finance the operations of translator installations. Many small towns would have a building on a nearby hilltop with a half dozen translators inside. In some cases translators were daisy chained 3 or 4 deep. In other areas, groups of TV broadcasters got together and financed the translators. I would suspect that even if a translator operator isn't going to change to HDTV, they will most likely feed the input of their translator with a signal derived from and HDTV signal. That will produce much better quality than they ever had before. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? The RO states what each type of station is and what it does. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? George, What do you mean by term 'translator'(is that the brunette between the blond and redhead?) Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] DTV transition. FACT or FICTION? I was talking to one of the tv stations engineers out here on the coast. He has a translator here. I asked him how soon would we be seeing the DTV conversion. His answer is, not any time soon and we must have mis understood the situation. Translators are EXEMPT from having to go digital, and to boot, he said, out of 8,000 broadcasters nation wide, only 25% or so HAVE to convert, all the others, on translators, don't have to. Anyone else hear this or know differently? George WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] TVBD height requirement
There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
Further information on this is that for fixed devices, a 30 dB transmit power into the antenna with a 6 dBi antenna. Every 1 dB decrease in transmit power results in a 1 dB increase in antenna gain... so for the largest practical antenna I can think of... 26 dB transmitter, 10 dB antenna. I believe Blair Davis provided a copy of a spec sheet for a 14 dB gain antenna (so only 22 dB transmitter) that appears to be roughly 4'. It has an awfully small wind resistance, however, so you shouldn't need as strong of mounting as you would think. 16.52 pounds at 100 mph, while a 24 dBi RooTenna has 77.8 pounds and is significantly smaller in physical dimension. Enough of that rambling... Personal portable devices are 100 mW transmitter with 6 dBi antenna for maximum EIRP of 400 mW. This goes quite a ways in 2.4 outdoors, so hopefully we can deal with that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Channels 3, 4, and 37 are excluded no matter what. Fixed users cannot use an adjacent channel (at this time) and are permitted between 2 and 51, with a power limit of 4 watts EIRP. Personal portable users are restricted to channels 21 - 51. 100 mw of power, but are to use 40 mw on channels adjacent to licensed users. Page 2 of the RO. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:40 PM To: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] NS2 Feedback
Mine once I build, test and release the image. :) OpenWRT/DD-WRT support it. Once I figure out how to customize the Ubnt SDK I can release a mesh firmware. It's currently a work in progress. Jerry Richardson wrote: Charles, which custom firmware supports mesh? __ Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wyble Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] NS2 Feedback All I can say is WOW!!! I deployed an NS2 in a client mode deployment for testing and put it through heavy usage (lots of voip/downloads/youtube etc) for 2 weeks. It worked flawlessly. I then deployed it as a hotspot in El Segundo CA and it's working great. Initial deployment was under the counter (closed on 3 sides) at a merchant and we got pretty good coverage of the whole strip mall. Tonight I moved it up near the ceiling and coverage (as expected) dramatically improved. We now provide coverage to 1 square block or so. I can't wait to load up a custom firmware image and start deploying a mesh. NS2: 100.00 Wireless coverage you can count on: Priceless Charles Wyble http://www.socalwifi.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NS2 Feedback
Josh Luthman wrote: Charles, Have you any experience with the R52/h or Compex cards? If so how do the NS2s compare (or do they)? No I do not. Sorry. My other wireless experience has been with Linksys WRT54GL running OpenWrt. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
Mike, On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says fixed devices will be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ... I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD inside, but it seems like the current method of POE to an outdoor device is preferred? So we are still looking at professional installation, outdoors? John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
Yes, thats because the height requirement was for facilitating accuracy of sensing, and sensing no longer being the method the rules rely on for interference avoidance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1799 - Release Date: 11/19/2008 8:58 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
I would like to correct myself with regards to the personal devices. I confused what they said in the first RO with what they said in this one... 100 mw EIRP for personal devices. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:00 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Further information on this is that for fixed devices, a 30 dB transmit power into the antenna with a 6 dBi antenna. Every 1 dB decrease in transmit power results in a 1 dB increase in antenna gain... so for the largest practical antenna I can think of... 26 dB transmitter, 10 dB antenna. I believe Blair Davis provided a copy of a spec sheet for a 14 dB gain antenna (so only 22 dB transmitter) that appears to be roughly 4'. It has an awfully small wind resistance, however, so you shouldn't need as strong of mounting as you would think. 16.52 pounds at 100 mph, while a 24 dBi RooTenna has 77.8 pounds and is significantly smaller in physical dimension. Enough of that rambling... Personal portable devices are 100 mW transmitter with 6 dBi antenna for maximum EIRP of 400 mW. This goes quite a ways in 2.4 outdoors, so hopefully we can deal with that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Channels 3, 4, and 37 are excluded no matter what. Fixed users cannot use an adjacent channel (at this time) and are permitted between 2 and 51, with a power limit of 4 watts EIRP. Personal portable users are restricted to channels 21 - 51. 100 mw of power, but are to use 40 mw on channels adjacent to licensed users. Page 2 of the RO. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:40 PM To: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Netflow
Does anyone know of any good open source netflow tools / collectors geared more for accounting than analyzing traffic? I would like to use netflow for our usage base billing since all our routers are mikrotik it should be easy to do. I looked at ntop and its flow capture system is more for seeing what is going on than for overall accounting and usage (At least that's what I got from it.) I see marlon is using one netflow collector that is subscription based so there must be an open source equivalent that I can hack to work with our freeside billing system for importing usage. Thanks, John Buwa Michiana Wireless WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
100 mW transmitter with 6 dBi antenna That was a surprise. I was expecting 100mw EIRP. That might make the margin between Fixed and Personal Portible a bit close. 36db (4 watt) -26db (400mw) = 10 db. Thats about the average SNR margin required for most DSSS radio (PS I know, Canopy 3db C/I) It allows Fixed to survive on a 1 on 1 comparision, but not sure how Fixed will stand up to large number of portable devices in agreegate. Leaving room for that omni on top, also encourages use for the spectrum as a short range outdoor relay system I can see these being used for muni networks, for the self install CPE, even at 400mw. My take on this is personal portable will not just be personal portable with the addition of the 6db omni allowance. What I really see happening now is runaway theft of service. It will now be so much easier, to share your neighbors cable/DSL line. The flip side is... 400mw EIRP, starts to bring it to the level WISPs could use it also for short term relays. Is the 6db antenna also allowed on the 40mw transmitter for adjacenet channels? If so, that might actually be a blessing in disguise, to enalbe WISPs to take advantage of adjacent channels, for some application. 18db EIRP might be enough for some applications. Non-Adjacent channels for 4watt Sector distribution, and Adjacent channels for very short range distribution. What type link do you think we might be able to pull off at 18db EIRP Whitespace, in clear spectrum? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Further information on this is that for fixed devices, a 30 dB transmit power into the antenna with a 6 dBi antenna. Every 1 dB decrease in transmit power results in a 1 dB increase in antenna gain... so for the largest practical antenna I can think of... 26 dB transmitter, 10 dB antenna. I believe Blair Davis provided a copy of a spec sheet for a 14 dB gain antenna (so only 22 dB transmitter) that appears to be roughly 4'. It has an awfully small wind resistance, however, so you shouldn't need as strong of mounting as you would think. 16.52 pounds at 100 mph, while a 24 dBi RooTenna has 77.8 pounds and is significantly smaller in physical dimension. Enough of that rambling... Personal portable devices are 100 mW transmitter with 6 dBi antenna for maximum EIRP of 400 mW. This goes quite a ways in 2.4 outdoors, so hopefully we can deal with that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Channels 3, 4, and 37 are excluded no matter what. Fixed users cannot use an adjacent channel (at this time) and are permitted between 2 and 51, with a power limit of 4 watts EIRP. Personal portable users are restricted to channels 21 - 51. 100 mw of power, but are to use 40 mw on channels adjacent to licensed users. Page 2 of the RO. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:40 PM To: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the
Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool
Then also negate my last Email. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I would like to correct myself with regards to the personal devices. I confused what they said in the first RO with what they said in this one... 100 mw EIRP for personal devices. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:00 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Further information on this is that for fixed devices, a 30 dB transmit power into the antenna with a 6 dBi antenna. Every 1 dB decrease in transmit power results in a 1 dB increase in antenna gain... so for the largest practical antenna I can think of... 26 dB transmitter, 10 dB antenna. I believe Blair Davis provided a copy of a spec sheet for a 14 dB gain antenna (so only 22 dB transmitter) that appears to be roughly 4'. It has an awfully small wind resistance, however, so you shouldn't need as strong of mounting as you would think. 16.52 pounds at 100 mph, while a 24 dBi RooTenna has 77.8 pounds and is significantly smaller in physical dimension. Enough of that rambling... Personal portable devices are 100 mW transmitter with 6 dBi antenna for maximum EIRP of 400 mW. This goes quite a ways in 2.4 outdoors, so hopefully we can deal with that. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Channels 3, 4, and 37 are excluded no matter what. Fixed users cannot use an adjacent channel (at this time) and are permitted between 2 and 51, with a power limit of 4 watts EIRP. Personal portable users are restricted to channels 21 - 51. 100 mw of power, but are to use 40 mw on channels adjacent to licensed users. Page 2 of the RO. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 11:40 PM To: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool As far as I know, the white spaces will only be channels 21-51 excluding channel 37. That's why they aren't included in the file. I could be wrong on that but seems like I pulled that from some document somewhere. That was prior to the ruling. If you find information to the contrary I'll update the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool Brian, When I looked at teh tool, it showed channels 20-52. Do you have mapping for channels 2-19? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:35 PM Subject: [WISPA] White Spaces Mapping Tool I have had several requests to send the free Google Earth tool I created to show the TV white Spaces available for any given area in the US. I have posted a copy of the file on my web site. Scroll down the home page to the area just above the sample maps. There you will find the link to the file and an explanation for how to use the tool. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 11/18/2008 11:23 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
I think signal propagation characteristics like diffraction are a much bigger issue at low frequencies closer to the ground. Here's a link that discusses some of the issues http://users.ictp.it/~radionet/ghana1998/LINKLOSS/INDEX.HTM http://users.ictp.it/%7Eradionet/ghana1998/LINKLOSS/INDEX.HTM Dave Hulsebus Tom DeReggi wrote: Yes, thats because the height requirement was for facilitating accuracy of sensing, and sensing no longer being the method the rules rely on for interference avoidance. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.7/1799 - Release Date: 11/19/2008 8:58 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
My read is that any 'portable or nomadic' device would be 100 or 40 mW EiRP and therefore not very useable for user self install unless a client was close to the AP. Kevin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Valenti Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement Mike, On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says fixed devices will be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ... I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD inside, but it seems like the current method of POE to an outdoor device is preferred? So we are still looking at professional installation, outdoors? John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
I disagree. It might be quite a while before we can use them. But I think that there will be a technological solution if it looks like they will allow it. Heck, they've already said that OOB has to be 55dB BELOW the interference level for adjacent channel use. I forget what that interference level is. Someday it'll be possible to create a WISP type device that'll only need a 2KHz guard band in order to protect the TV sets from interference. The difference in an analyzer trace between 802.11b and g is pretty amazing already. http://www.bvsystems.com/Products/Software/Beekeeper/spectrumanalysis.gif That was b mode. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/atheros-super,review-202-4.html Those are g mode. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big win for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big win for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic.
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65
Although I got my license and site registration some time ago, I am only now putting it up. Will be done early next week. Mark insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65 I believe Mark in... Oregon has done so. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Joel White [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:38 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65 Anyone out there using the Ubiquiti 3.65 legally registered with the FCC? Any ups or downs or knowledge you care to share? TIA Best Regards, Joel NexGenAccess Inc. www.nexgenaccess.com 740-513-4122 NexGenAccess Inc. http://www.nexgenaccess.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big win for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
Mike, Where are you reading this on page 43? And I've made it farther back in the report... Is Appendix B (Final Rules) the actual rule? That doesn't look good, see Antenna Requirements on page 101. Not only is the transmit antenna limited to 30 meters high, but the receive antenna must be 10 m high. Sounds like a single story ranch house is going to need a mast. That won't be popular. Also, it sounds like a yagi isn't acceptable as a receive antenna: The antenna system shall be capable of receiving signals of protected services equally in all directions. Sounds like an omni to me. I hope I'm reading this wrong! -John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
You could have a lower gain omni as just a sense antenna. - Original Message - From: John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement Mike, Where are you reading this on page 43? And I've made it farther back in the report... Is Appendix B (Final Rules) the actual rule? That doesn't look good, see Antenna Requirements on page 101. Not only is the transmit antenna limited to 30 meters high, but the receive antenna must be 10 m high. Sounds like a single story ranch house is going to need a mast. That won't be popular. Also, it sounds like a yagi isn't acceptable as a receive antenna: The antenna system shall be capable of receiving signals of protected services equally in all directions. Sounds like an omni to me. I hope I'm reading this wrong! -John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont
I'm looking into setting up a remote access point/repeater. Power requirements are 5W. No access to grid power. I was curious what you guys use for this type of thing? I figure I need a 30W solar panel, controller, battery and enclosure. How much should I expect to pay for a setup? Is there anything available off the shelf? Thanks for your help. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont
I would use a 100 watt panel minimum. And a one month battery. 5watts * 24hours * 30 days = 3600 watt hour battery If you are running a 24 volt system then you need 3600/24=150 aH battery. If you are running a 12 volt system, you need a 300 aH battery. You will pay about 30 cents per watt hour for a battery. So $1080 for the battery. You will pay about $5/watt for the panel, so $500 for the panel. Charge controllers are about $100 or less. If you build it this way it will always work. You can put in half the battery for half the price. But then you have only two weeks of insurance against bad weather. Never ever go below 10X the load for the panel, that will just barely cut it in the sunniest of climates. Even then you will probably have to put in a back up generator and you will be cycling the crap out of your batts causing them to only last a couple of years. If you want 99.999% reliability you have to use a panel 24X the size of the load (unless you have a tracking mount, then you can reduce that). I try to always use 20X panels and no less than a 2 week battery. But even then, a week or two of snow on the panels and gray skies every day can cause an outage. - Original Message - From: Scott Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont I'm looking into setting up a remote access point/repeater. Power requirements are 5W. No access to grid power. I was curious what you guys use for this type of thing? I figure I need a 30W solar panel, controller, battery and enclosure. How much should I expect to pay for a setup? Is there anything available off the shelf? Thanks for your help. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont
Here is a note I posted several days ago on the Motorola list about solar powering. From: Chuck McCown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:17 AM To: Dave Crim Subject: Re: solar Continuing on a bit, lets say you have 5 lousy days and one good sunny day followed by 5 more lousy days. That one sunny day needs to store enough to charge the batts totally. 75 watts * 5 days * 24hours * 1.25 (batter efficiency loss) + (75watts * 24 hours) current day = 13050 watt hours. To make 13050 watt hours in one 10 hour day you go: 13050/.707*10=1845 watts. You need 1845 watts of panel to do this. That is 24 times the load. So, my rule of thumb of 20 times the load is still a little shy of being conservative. The thing that saves you in a situation like this is a massive battery. A one month battery with 20 X panels will never fail due to a lack of sun energy. A 2 week battery and 10X panels will fail now and then every single winter. Sometimes for several days at a time. - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:09 AM Subject: solar Several thing you may not be including. Assuming this panel is somewhere in this neck of the woods, December 21 has 10 hours of time between runrise and sunset. But if you don't have tracking mounts (most don't) the amount of energy you get out of a panel follows the first half of a sine wave. To estimate that energy, you integrate the area under the curve. That will equal .707 of what you thought you were going to get. So, let's say you put up a 500 watt panel, your daily sunny output will be an average of 353 watts. The sun shines for 10 hours solid and you store 3530 watt hours in your battery. Now your load is on during the daytime, so if you have a 75 watt load, you are now able to make 278 watts. You are down to 2780 watt hours. You put in 2780 watt hours into a battery and you get maybe 80% back out. So you have 2224 watt hour available (if you drain the batts which is not good for them). You have 14 hours of darkness and actually more like 16 hours before the panel starts making any useful amount of energy. 16*75=1200 watt hours. But that next day is not sunny, there is frost and a light coating of snow. The whole works dies 16 hours later. About 9 pm. One other note, you only want to draw your batteries down no more than 10% each night or they won't last long. That means a minimum of 12000 watt hours. If that is a 12 volt system, 1000 amp hours. If it is a 24 volt system, 500 amp hours. And that is a minimum because here we get a week with snow and ice and no sun easy, sometimes two weeks. You really need a generator, less load, or a whole bunch more batts and panels. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in 75ohm, for a long time. One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there that we can use if they do. Jack Unger wrote: That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big "win" for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont
What type of battery's are you using? That price sounds very high. 4x T-105 will provide 225Ah at 24V for a cost of about $500 Chuck McCoy's - 3 wrote: I would use a 100 watt panel minimum. And a one month battery. 5watts * 24hours * 30 days = 3600 watt hour battery If you are running a 24 volt system then you need 3600/24=150 aH battery. If you are running a 12 volt system, you need a 300 aH battery. You will pay about 30 cents per watt hour for a battery. So $1080 for the battery. You will pay about $5/watt for the panel, so $500 for the panel. Charge controllers are about $100 or less. If you build it this way it will always work. You can put in half the battery for half the price. But then you have only two weeks of insurance against bad weather. Never ever go below 10X the load for the panel, that will just barely cut it in the sunniest of climates. Even then you will probably have to put in a back up generator and you will be cycling the crap out of your batts causing them to only last a couple of years. If you want 99.999% reliability you have to use a panel 24X the size of the load (unless you have a tracking mount, then you can reduce that). I try to always use 20X panels and no less than a 2 week battery. But even then, a week or two of snow on the panels and gray skies every day can cause an outage. - Original Message - From: "Scott Parsons" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont I'm looking into setting up a remote access point/repeater. Power requirements are 5W. No access to grid power. I was curious what you guys use for this type of thing? I figure I need a 30W solar panel, controller, battery and enclosure. How much should I expect to pay for a setup? Is there anything available off the shelf? Thanks for your help. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TVBD height requirement
With the cost and loss's of RG6 cable, it might sense to have all the active stuff inside. John Valenti wrote: Mike, On page 5 in section 8 (Fixed devices), it says "fixed devices will be required to operate with antennas mounted outdoors ..." I suppose you could run coax from a TVBD inside, but it seems like the current method of POE to an outdoor device is preferred? So we are still looking at professional installation, outdoors? John On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: There previously was some discussion about a 10 meter antenna height requirement in the TVWS. I'm only on page 43 of the report, but on this page it states that the FCC doesn't see a need for either a height or an outdoor requirement, only a 40 cm distance away from people. This is to comply with the most restrictive MPE distance required by the frequencies in use. TVWS = TeleVision White Spaces TVBD = TeleVision Band Device WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
That's good. Do you have a url or two? Blair Davis wrote: And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in 75ohm, for a long time. One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there that we can use if they do. Jack Unger wrote: That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big win for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont
We buy batts that are rated to give you the energy down to -20F. Survive being at-20F while discharged to a stone cold state. And recover when the next available bit of sunlight hits the panel (perhaps days later). And last 2000 cycles. For that you pay 30 cents per watt hour. And can sleep at night. (we used to get these for 20 cents, I don't know why they are so much more now) I just found a website selling a T-105 for $160\each 6 volts, 225 aH That comes to 11.8 cents per watt hour. The Trojan website says avoid locations where freezing temperatures are expected. It also says the must be kept fully charged when freezing. Hard to do with solar on a mountain top. http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/documents/UsersGuide_0708_English_003.pdf So, if you have a nice warm place to keep the trojans then they are a very good value. (assuming they are in an air conditioned place in the summer too, else they won't last too many summers) But most solar powered sites don't have a heater to keep them from freezing and splitting. - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont What type of battery's are you using? That price sounds very high. 4x T-105 will provide 225Ah at 24V for a cost of about $500 Chuck McCoy's - 3 wrote: I would use a 100 watt panel minimum. And a one month battery. 5watts * 24hours * 30 days = 3600 watt hour battery If you are running a 24 volt system then you need 3600/24=150 aH battery. If you are running a 12 volt system, you need a 300 aH battery. You will pay about 30 cents per watt hour for a battery. So $1080 for the battery. You will pay about $5/watt for the panel, so $500 for the panel. Charge controllers are about $100 or less. If you build it this way it will always work. You can put in half the battery for half the price. But then you have only two weeks of insurance against bad weather. Never ever go below 10X the load for the panel, that will just barely cut it in the sunniest of climates. Even then you will probably have to put in a back up generator and you will be cycling the crap out of your batts causing them to only last a couple of years. If you want 99.999% reliability you have to use a panel 24X the size of the load (unless you have a tracking mount, then you can reduce that). I try to always use 20X panels and no less than a 2 week battery. But even then, a week or two of snow on the panels and gray skies every day can cause an outage. - Original Message - From: Scott Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont I'm looking into setting up a remote access point/repeater. Power requirements are 5W. No access to grid power. I was curious what you guys use for this type of thing? I figure I need a 30W solar panel, controller, battery and enclosure. How much should I expect to pay for a setup? Is there anything available off the shelf? Thanks for your help. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Not offhand. Back 10-15 years ago, I used them in CATV work, so I know they are out there. Jack Unger wrote: That's good. Do you have a url or two? Blair Davis wrote: And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in 75ohm, for a long time. One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there that we can use if they do. Jack Unger wrote: That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big "win" for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --
Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont
Ok. our answer to that problem has always been to double up on our total battery size so we never discharge them below 60% Sounds like you are in a much more inaccessible environment than we are! And in that kind of location, I'd likely be looking for the same thing. But, for us, inaccessibility won't last more than a week or so... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: We buy batts that are rated to give you the energy down to -20F. Survive being at-20F while discharged to a stone cold state. And recover when the next available bit of sunlight hits the panel (perhaps days later). And last 2000 cycles. For that you pay 30 cents per watt hour. And can sleep at night. (we used to get these for 20 cents, I don't know why they are so much more now) I just found a website selling a T-105 for $160\each 6 volts, 225 aH That comes to 11.8 cents per watt hour. The Trojan website says "avoid locations where freezing temperatures are expected". It also says the must be kept fully charged when freezing. Hard to do with solar on a mountain top. http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/documents/UsersGuide_0708_English_003.pdf So, if you have a nice warm place to keep the trojans then they are a very good value. (assuming they are in an air conditioned place in the summer too, else they won't last too many summers) But most solar powered sites don't have a heater to keep them from freezing and splitting. - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont What type of battery's are you using? That price sounds very high. 4x T-105 will provide 225Ah at 24V for a cost of about $500 Chuck McCoy's - 3 wrote: I would use a 100 watt panel minimum. And a one month battery. 5watts * 24hours * 30 days = 3600 watt hour battery If you are running a 24 volt system then you need 3600/24=150 aH battery. If you are running a 12 volt system, you need a 300 aH battery. You will pay about 30 cents per watt hour for a battery. So $1080 for the battery. You will pay about $5/watt for the panel, so $500 for the panel. Charge controllers are about $100 or less. If you build it this way it will always work. You can put in half the battery for half the price. But then you have only two weeks of insurance against bad weather. Never ever go below 10X the load for the panel, that will just barely cut it in the sunniest of climates. Even then you will probably have to put in a back up generator and you will be cycling the crap out of your batts causing them to only last a couple of years. If you want 99.999% reliability you have to use a panel 24X the size of the load (unless you have a tracking mount, then you can reduce that). I try to always use 20X panels and no less than a 2 week battery. But even then, a week or two of snow on the panels and gray skies every day can cause an outage. - Original Message - From: "Scott Parsons" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont I'm looking into setting up a remote access point/repeater. Power requirements are 5W. No access to grid power. I was curious what you guys use for this type of thing? I figure I need a 30W solar panel, controller, battery and enclosure. How much should I expect to pay for a setup? Is there anything available off the shelf? Thanks for your help. Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Here is one kind I found quick. http://www.tinlee.com/bandpass_filters.php?active=1#CFAL Winegaurd and Channel Master both made them for CATV use and for master antenna distribution systems Jack Unger wrote: That's good. Do you have a url or two? Blair Davis wrote: And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in 75ohm, for a long time. One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there that we can use if they do. Jack Unger wrote: That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big "win" for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Thanks! Something similar (maybe a little more selective and a little more money) might work. :) Regarding the 75-ohm stuff. It's unlikely that we'll be piecing this stuff together. It's more likely that it will be all assembled and certified as a unit. FCC certification is a requirement. Blair Davis wrote: Here is one kind I found quick. http://www.tinlee.com/bandpass_filters.php?active=1#CFAL Winegaurd and Channel Master both made them for CATV use and for master antenna distribution systems Jack Unger wrote: That's good. Do you have a url or two? Blair Davis wrote: And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in 75ohm, for a long time. One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there that we can use if they do. Jack Unger wrote: That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big win for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont
At 60% depth of discharge they freeze at 0F. Once frozen they are dead. Liquid electrolyte batteries need to be liquid to work. Not to mention the risk of a broken case. (You most likely mean you try to avoid taking them below 40% DOD, but 60% has a nice freezing point to exploit for purposes of rhetoric). Trojans were designed for the cabin with the fireplace and the intermittent use of the residential solar application.(Really, they were designed for golf carts). Constant load, constant nightly cycling, periods of no charging and deep discharge during the coldest days of the year is a different application and takes a different battery technology. Here is a good VLRA white paper on the temperature issue: http://www.cdtechno.com/custserv/pdf/7953.pdf We use VLRAs inside central offices where there is HVAC. Not in the field. And they are much better than flooded cells like the T-105 AGMs go in the field. And for solar only a few types of AGMs can be trusted. This app note is full of lots of good info. It is on the batts we use that will still deliver 40% of their power at -40 degrees. http://www.enersysreservepower.com/documents/US-GPL-AM-003_0906.pdf But the only really important point is that in a solar situation, where you have weather and you have low temps, very few batteries will totally recover from an extreme deep discharge. And that happens all the time when people scrimp on their battery capacity and solar panel capacity. 20X watts 30 days autonomy = you will sleep all winter long. - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont Ok. our answer to that problem has always been to double up on our total battery size so we never discharge them below 60% Sounds like you are in a much more inaccessible environment than we are! And in that kind of location, I'd likely be looking for the same thing. But, for us, inaccessibility won't last more than a week or so... Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: We buy batts that are rated to give you the energy down to -20F. Survive being at-20F while discharged to a stone cold state. And recover when the next available bit of sunlight hits the panel (perhaps days later). And last 2000 cycles. For that you pay 30 cents per watt hour. And can sleep at night. (we used to get these for 20 cents, I don't know why they are so much more now) I just found a website selling a T-105 for $160\each 6 volts, 225 aH That comes to 11.8 cents per watt hour. The Trojan website says avoid locations where freezing temperatures are expected. It also says the must be kept fully charged when freezing. Hard to do with solar on a mountain top. http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/documents/UsersGuide_0708_English_003.pdf So, if you have a nice warm place to keep the trojans then they are a very good value. (assuming they are in an air conditioned place in the summer too, else they won't last too many summers) But most solar powered sites don't have a heater to keep them from freezing and splitting. - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont What type of battery's are you using? That price sounds very high. 4x T-105 will provide 225Ah at 24V for a cost of about $500 Chuck McCoy's - 3 wrote: I would use a 100 watt panel minimum. And a one month battery. 5watts * 24hours * 30 days = 3600 watt hour battery If you are running a 24 volt system then you need 3600/24=150 aH battery. If you are running a 12 volt system, you need a 300 aH battery. You will pay about 30 cents per watt hour for a battery. So $1080 for the battery. You will pay about $5/watt for the panel, so $500 for the panel. Charge controllers are about $100 or less. If you build it this way it will always work. You can put in half the battery for half the price. But then you have only two weeks of insurance against bad weather. Never ever go below 10X the load for the panel, that will just barely cut it in the sunniest of climates. Even then you will probably have to put in a back up generator and you will be cycling the crap out of your batts causing them to only last a couple of years. If you want 99.999% reliability you have to use a panel 24X the size of the load (unless you have a tracking mount, then you can reduce that). I try to always use 20X panels and no less than a 2 week battery. But even then, a week or two of snow on the panels and gray skies every day can cause an outage. - Original Message - From: Scott Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:33 PM Subject: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont I'm looking into setting up a remote access point/repeater. Power requirements are 5W. No access
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Unless I am looking at it wrong it looks like New Orleans has 10 channels that I can use. This is going by using google earth and Brians file. Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
I'm still only about half way through, but I thought it was 2 years. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:43 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces They did state that they plan to take another look at this band in 5 years. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else). Four watts at these frequencies will carry! Yep! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
You piece together an Alvarion or Redline IDU and ODU with a piece of IF cable. Just because it requires FCC certification (as does everything) doesn't mean you can't have antenna selection. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:12 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Thanks! Something similar (maybe a little more selective and a little more money) might work. :) Regarding the 75-ohm stuff. It's unlikely that we'll be piecing this stuff together. It's more likely that it will be all assembled and certified as a unit. FCC certification is a requirement. Blair Davis wrote: Here is one kind I found quick. http://www.tinlee.com/bandpass_filters.php?active=1#CFAL Winegaurd and Channel Master both made them for CATV use and for master antenna distribution systems Jack Unger wrote: That's good. Do you have a url or two? Blair Davis wrote: And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in 75ohm, for a long time. One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there that we can use if they do. Jack Unger wrote: That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big win for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and what will you do with it? Indeed! Who would the likely vendors in this space be? Should we put an RFP together and send it around? I sure want answers to your questions as well. Ladies and gents: I haven't read all of the published information yet, but this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won! Congrats. It appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 watts
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Sorry Mike. I try to limit my time to responding only to serious, thoughtful comments. I don't normally respond to smart-a** comments because I just don't have any time to waste on them. I expect a more intelligent contribution from someone who works to achieve Intelligent Computing Solutions. Mike Hammett wrote: You piece together an Alvarion or Redline IDU and ODU with a piece of IF cable. Just because it requires FCC certification (as does everything) doesn't mean you can't have antenna selection. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:12 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Thanks! Something similar (maybe a little more selective and a little more money) might work. :) Regarding the 75-ohm stuff. It's unlikely that we'll be piecing this stuff together. It's more likely that it will be all assembled and certified as a unit. FCC certification is a requirement. Blair Davis wrote: Here is one kind I found quick. http://www.tinlee.com/bandpass_filters.php?active=1#CFAL Winegaurd and Channel Master both made them for CATV use and for master antenna distribution systems Jack Unger wrote: That's good. Do you have a url or two? Blair Davis wrote: And those are available already. the CATV industry has had them, in 75ohm, for a long time. One thing I really hope for this gear is that the vendors decide to make 75ohm gear. There is a HUGE amount of stuff already out there that we can use if they do. Jack Unger wrote: That's a very good idea on the transmit side. Remember that our AP receivers will also need a VERY sharp filter ($$$) to keep the adjacent channel TV signal from overloading it and reducing the reception range to . jack Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: For adjacent channel use, we don't have to use a 6 MHz channel. We could use 5 or 4 or whatever it takes to make it work. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Directional antennas and other interference-avoidance techniques will help but for mass-market use (which is how the vendors visualize the TVWS) I suspect that it's going to be a long time before 1st adjacent channel use will be practical. Still, gaining access to most of the non-1st adjacent channels white space is still a big win for the WISP industry. Chuck McCown wrote: Hopefully forward error correction and directional antennas will make it possible. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Anything's possible but look at the shape of a DTV waveform and compare it to the shape of an OFDM broadband wireless signal. Now look at the space between those two waveforms if they are on adjacent channels. It's kind of like putting two bricks side by side with no space in between. Who is going to interfere with who the most? Looks like the DTV signals will interfere with our AP receivers AND our CPE transmitters will interfere with nearby television receivers. Of course, I could be wrong What's your take on it? Chuck McCown wrote: Perhaps once TVWS gets used and it proves a success, then they will open up adjacent channels. Once they do that there will be holes everywhere. - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Joe, The White Spaces are the unused television channels. In most major metro areas, many of the channels are in use by television broadcasters and other licensed users. Outside of major metro areas, there will be unused channels available that you can use. In general, the more rural you are, the more channels will be available. jack Joe Laura wrote: Am I hearing correctly that this new space can only be utilized in rural areas? Not for Citys like New Orleans? TIA Joe Laura Superior Alarm/Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces Ubquity? Some kind of mini-pci card? Charles Wyble wrote: Mike Hammett wrote: Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the vendors. When, how much, and
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Jack Unger wrote: Sorry Mike. I try to limit my time to responding only to serious, thoughtful comments. I don't normally respond to smart-a** comments because I just don't have any time to waste on them. Ouch! :-) Has anyone done an RF propagation study in your area for the TVWS? I just did a quick check in RM for my area. I used the following parameters: 10 Meter antenna height (both ends) 4W EIRP (1+3) Omni Channel 51 (should be the worst case propagation) Using the polar coverage, I am seeing over 16 MILES at -104 RX sensitivity. About 11 miles is -90. At about 8 miles is the -80s and 4 miles is -60s. I will be trying this with a 10 meter antenna talking to a 100mW device next (for indoor installs) just to see what happens. The WORST problem I see with this is Fresnel. It is NUTS! Maybe Fresnel problems are not as big an issue with this low of a frequency, but if it is, I can't see using more than a 3-4 mile cell as the antenna heights would be crazy. Jack, care to comment on the characteristics to be concerned about in this band? IS fresnel gonna be a problem? What about antenna heights due to the 10 meter requirement (WHAT were they smoking?). -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces
Butch, Your analysis looks good. I'm still reading through the rules and I WILL be commenting just as soon as I get through it all. :) I don't think Fresnel is going to be too much of a problem. Which page did you pick up that antenna height requirement from? jack Butch Evans wrote: On Wed, 19 Nov 2008, Jack Unger wrote: Sorry Mike. I try to limit my time to responding only to serious, thoughtful comments. I don't normally respond to smart-a** comments because I just don't have any time to waste on them. Ouch! :-) Has anyone done an RF propagation study in your area for the TVWS? I just did a quick check in RM for my area. I used the following parameters: 10 Meter antenna height (both ends) 4W EIRP (1+3) Omni Channel 51 (should be the worst case propagation) Using the polar coverage, I am seeing over 16 MILES at -104 RX sensitivity. About 11 miles is -90. At about 8 miles is the -80s and 4 miles is -60s. I will be trying this with a 10 meter antenna talking to a 100mW device next (for indoor installs) just to see what happens. The WORST problem I see with this is Fresnel. It is NUTS! Maybe Fresnel problems are not as big an issue with this low of a frequency, but if it is, I can't see using more than a 3-4 mile cell as the antenna heights would be crazy. Jack, care to comment on the characteristics to be concerned about in this band? IS fresnel gonna be a problem? What about antenna heights due to the 10 meter requirement (WHAT were they smoking?). -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Cisco Press Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs WISPs - Do you know where your customers are? For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger Phone 818-227-4220 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
