Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[TJ Trout]

So I'm assuming I can make a free account with dns.he.net and then login to
arin and set the delegation for the RDNS, then I need to login to the
dns.he.net and make a rdns entry for the customers IP address with the
desired domain name they want to resolve? Is that somewhat correct?

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 10:00 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> 162.222.29.0/24
>
> The goal of my post was to see if anyone knew of any way to resolve this
> without spinning up a dns server, i.e. hosted solution for rdns that's
> free/cheap, etc.
>
> I realize arin doesn't host DNS but I thought maybe there was so method to
> do something like SWIP that would resolve this, again I'm a noob.
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:52 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Give us an example of one of your /24 blocks.  Or look it up at ARIN to
>> see what they think the authoritative nameservers are.  Here is an example
>> of one of mine:
>>
>> https://whois.arin.net/rest/rdns/192.49.69.in-addr.arpa.
>>
>>
>>
>> (this is for 69.49.192.0/24)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:41 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm the owner of the IP space, how exactly can I get this rdns entry
>> made? Does this involve hosting a DNS server or can I just make an entry
>> into one of ARIN's databases?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Whose IP space are they on?  Yours?  Surely you control reverse DNS for
>> your own IP blocks, right?  Part of ARIN allocating a block to you is
>> authoritative namesevers for the in-addr.arpa zone.  You could host rDNS
>> anywhere you want, as long as ARIN points to those nameservers as
>> authoritative for your block.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you saying this customer is using IP space from another provider, or
>> has their own?  You would need to get the owner of that block to delegate
>> DNS to you for that IP address or subnet.
>>
>>
>>
>> I remember once I was doing hosting for a customer who had a T1 from
>> AT, and AT policy was not to provide rDNS for AT blocks assigned to a
>> customer if that customer’s domain was hosted elsewhere.  Actually, what
>> AT did was to delegate rDNS to my nameservers without telling me first,
>> which resulted in constant lame delegation log entries.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:17 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry
>>
>>
>>
>> Is it possibe to make a reverse DNS entry for a customer doing hosting on
>> their service if I'm not hosting my DNS in house ? ( Ducks)
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm assuming not? Anyway to resolve their request with hosted DNS or
>> through Arin's website ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[TJ Trout]

162.222.29.0/24

The goal of my post was to see if anyone knew of any way to resolve this
without spinning up a dns server, i.e. hosted solution for rdns that's
free/cheap, etc.

I realize arin doesn't host DNS but I thought maybe there was so method to
do something like SWIP that would resolve this, again I'm a noob.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:52 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Give us an example of one of your /24 blocks.  Or look it up at ARIN to
> see what they think the authoritative nameservers are.  Here is an example
> of one of mine:
>
> https://whois.arin.net/rest/rdns/192.49.69.in-addr.arpa.
>
>
>
> (this is for 69.49.192.0/24)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:41 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry
>
>
>
> I'm the owner of the IP space, how exactly can I get this rdns entry made?
> Does this involve hosting a DNS server or can I just make an entry into one
> of ARIN's databases?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Whose IP space are they on?  Yours?  Surely you control reverse DNS for
> your own IP blocks, right?  Part of ARIN allocating a block to you is
> authoritative namesevers for the in-addr.arpa zone.  You could host rDNS
> anywhere you want, as long as ARIN points to those nameservers as
> authoritative for your block.
>
>
>
> Are you saying this customer is using IP space from another provider, or
> has their own?  You would need to get the owner of that block to delegate
> DNS to you for that IP address or subnet.
>
>
>
> I remember once I was doing hosting for a customer who had a T1 from AT,
> and AT policy was not to provide rDNS for AT blocks assigned to a
> customer if that customer’s domain was hosted elsewhere.  Actually, what
> AT did was to delegate rDNS to my nameservers without telling me first,
> which resulted in constant lame delegation log entries.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry
>
>
>
> Is it possibe to make a reverse DNS entry for a customer doing hosting on
> their service if I'm not hosting my DNS in house ? ( Ducks)
>
>
>
> I'm assuming not? Anyway to resolve their request with hosted DNS or
> through Arin's website ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[Ken Hohhof]

Give us an example of one of your /24 blocks.  Or look it up at ARIN to see 
what they think the authoritative nameservers are.  Here is an example of one 
of mine:

https://whois.arin.net/rest/rdns/192.49.69.in-addr.arpa.

 

(this is for 69.49.192.0/24)

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

 

I'm the owner of the IP space, how exactly can I get this rdns entry made? Does 
this involve hosting a DNS server or can I just make an entry into one of 
ARIN's databases?

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:

Whose IP space are they on?  Yours?  Surely you control reverse DNS for your 
own IP blocks, right?  Part of ARIN allocating a block to you is authoritative 
namesevers for the in-addr.arpa zone.  You could host rDNS anywhere you want, 
as long as ARIN points to those nameservers as authoritative for your block.

 

Are you saying this customer is using IP space from another provider, or has 
their own?  You would need to get the owner of that block to delegate DNS to 
you for that IP address or subnet.

 

I remember once I was doing hosting for a customer who had a T1 from AT, and 
AT policy was not to provide rDNS for AT blocks assigned to a customer if 
that customer’s domain was hosted elsewhere.  Actually, what AT did was to 
delegate rDNS to my nameservers without telling me first, which resulted in 
constant lame delegation log entries.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of TJ Trout
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

 

Is it possibe to make a reverse DNS entry for a customer doing hosting on their 
service if I'm not hosting my DNS in house ? ( Ducks)

 

I'm assuming not? Anyway to resolve their request with hosted DNS or through 
Arin's website ?

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/12/17 9:40 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

I'm the owner of the IP space, how exactly can I get this rdns entry
made? Does this involve hosting a DNS server or can I just make an entry
into one of ARIN's databases?



ARIN doesn't host DNS, they only point the in-addr.arpa to somewhere.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[TJ Trout]

I'm the owner of the IP space, how exactly can I get this rdns entry made?
Does this involve hosting a DNS server or can I just make an entry into one
of ARIN's databases?

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Whose IP space are they on?  Yours?  Surely you control reverse DNS for
> your own IP blocks, right?  Part of ARIN allocating a block to you is
> authoritative namesevers for the in-addr.arpa zone.  You could host rDNS
> anywhere you want, as long as ARIN points to those nameservers as
> authoritative for your block.
>
>
>
> Are you saying this customer is using IP space from another provider, or
> has their own?  You would need to get the owner of that block to delegate
> DNS to you for that IP address or subnet.
>
>
>
> I remember once I was doing hosting for a customer who had a T1 from AT,
> and AT policy was not to provide rDNS for AT blocks assigned to a
> customer if that customer’s domain was hosted elsewhere.  Actually, what
> AT did was to delegate rDNS to my nameservers without telling me first,
> which resulted in constant lame delegation log entries.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry
>
>
>
> Is it possibe to make a reverse DNS entry for a customer doing hosting on
> their service if I'm not hosting my DNS in house ? ( Ducks)
>
>
>
> I'm assuming not? Anyway to resolve their request with hosted DNS or
> through Arin's website ?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[Ken Hohhof]

Whose IP space are they on?  Yours?  Surely you control reverse DNS for your 
own IP blocks, right?  Part of ARIN allocating a block to you is authoritative 
namesevers for the in-addr.arpa zone.  You could host rDNS anywhere you want, 
as long as ARIN points to those nameservers as authoritative for your block.

 

Are you saying this customer is using IP space from another provider, or has 
their own?  You would need to get the owner of that block to delegate DNS to 
you for that IP address or subnet.

 

I remember once I was doing hosting for a customer who had a T1 from AT, and 
AT policy was not to provide rDNS for AT blocks assigned to a customer if 
that customer’s domain was hosted elsewhere.  Actually, what AT did was to 
delegate rDNS to my nameservers without telling me first, which resulted in 
constant lame delegation log entries.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

 

Is it possibe to make a reverse DNS entry for a customer doing hosting on their 
service if I'm not hosting my DNS in house ? ( Ducks)

 

I'm assuming not? Anyway to resolve their request with hosted DNS or through 
Arin's website ?

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/12/17 9:17 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

Is it possibe to make a reverse DNS entry for a customer doing hosting
on their service if I'm not hosting my DNS in house ? ( Ducks)

I'm assuming not? Anyway to resolve their request with hosted DNS or
through Arin's website ?




https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2317

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Tyler Treat]

Or maybe if you're not the people-person typesend your sales guy?


From: Af  on behalf of That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

Lol I thought you were gonna say go at harvest time and talk to the farmer, 
that's a good way to get shot

On Jan 12, 2017 6:15 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > 
wrote:
Go there at harvest time, see what name is on the grain trucks?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

Obviously you didn't read his e-mail.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Josh Luthman" 
>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:32:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
Are you just looking to talk to who runs the grain elevator?

Grab the address, go to the county auditor (website), get their name and you 
can usually find their home number that way.  If you need their cell I'd do 
what Chuck said, talk to the neighbors.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:
Go talk to the person in the nearest house.

Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering.

Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
Farm equipment dealers know everyone.

From: That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections.

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance.

Any sage advice?

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Tyler Treat]

Call your farmer friends.  They'll know who's leg it is.  Probably even make an 
introduction.

network, network, network!


From: Af  on behalf of Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact


Or this - build a wooden horse, leave it at the grain leg, and hide inside.

We all know farmers can't resist free stuff, so next time he's at the leg, he 
will take the horse home.

Now you can jump out and ... wait, that will definitely get you shot.





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact



Lol I thought you were gonna say go at harvest time and talk to the farmer, 
that's a good way to get shot



On Jan 12, 2017 6:15 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > 
wrote:

Go there at harvest time, see what name is on the grain trucks?



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact



Obviously you didn't read his e-mail.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]






From: "Josh Luthman" 
>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:32:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

Are you just looking to talk to who runs the grain elevator?

Grab the address, go to the county auditor (website), get their name and you 
can usually find their home number that way.  If you need their cell I'd do 
what Chuck said, talk to the neighbors.




Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Chuck McCown 
> wrote:

Go talk to the person in the nearest house.



Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering.



Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.

Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.

The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.

Fertilizer dealers know everyone.

Farm equipment dealers know everyone.



From: That One Guy /sarcasm

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM

To: af@afmug.com

Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact



We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections.



The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.

I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance.



Any sage advice?



--

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Reverse DNS entry

[TJ Trout]

Is it possibe to make a reverse DNS entry for a customer doing hosting on
their service if I'm not hosting my DNS in house ? ( Ducks)

I'm assuming not? Anyway to resolve their request with hosted DNS or
through Arin's website ?

Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/12/17 8:10 PM, Chris Fabien wrote:

I've thought about "5G+" for our next round of network upgrades!



5Gx^2+

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Ken Hohhof]

Or this – build a wooden horse, leave it at the grain leg, and hide inside.

We all know farmers can’t resist free stuff, so next time he’s at the leg, he 
will take the horse home.

Now you can jump out and … wait, that will definitely get you shot.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

 

Lol I thought you were gonna say go at harvest time and talk to the farmer, 
that's a good way to get shot

 

On Jan 12, 2017 6:15 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  
> wrote:

Go there at harvest time, see what name is on the grain trucks?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

 

Obviously you didn't read his e-mail.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Josh Luthman"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:32:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

Are you just looking to talk to who runs the grain elevator?

Grab the address, go to the county auditor (website), get their name and you 
can usually find their home number that way.  If you need their cell I'd do 
what Chuck said, talk to the neighbors.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:

Go talk to the person in the nearest house.

 

Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering.  

 

Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.

Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.  

The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.  

Fertilizer dealers know everyone.

Farm equipment dealers know everyone.  

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

 

We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections. 

 

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.

I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance.

 

Any sage advice?


 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Ken Hohhof]

The guy who came up with the name “DECT 6.0” was a marketing genius.

Actual frequency 1.9 GHz.

But consumers can understand that 6.0 is better than 5.8 is better than 2.4.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rick-krupka-72625b2

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | 
FierceWireless

 

I've thought about "5G+" for our next round of network upgrades!

 

Seriously though we got a lot of value out of using the 5G term when we 
overlaid the network with 5ghz ptmp equipment. Some peolple were so impressed 
that we were ahead of Verizon who had just rolled out 4G in our area. 

 

On Jan 12, 2017 10:54 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  > wrote:

But you didn't put an x That's marketing 

 

On Jan 12, 2017 8:50 PM, "Chris Fabien"  > wrote:

We've been selling "5G" for about 3 years!

 

On Jan 12, 2017 7:16 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  > wrote:

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/redzone-launches-5g-branded-service-maine?utm_medium=nl
 

 
_source=internal=27472010_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdNNVl6QTJPVEpsTWpsbCIsInQiOiI3NEtrM1c3WGdQQVZqODZzT1hwYlhHVitDdFBDR2diRWhnOGNXQk01ZjRGOXg1bjQxMUZqMFhmU2lFclpcL2xXSWRzbUhjTWJndUNTQzRNS29mZ2ptTUVYbU1MWGdxV0dHQ2lHc0o5MVNqUDNvVU5ZRVVUdkk2TGliVUhjSGdPZTcifQ%3D%3D

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Lol I thought you were gonna say go at harvest time and talk to the farmer,
that's a good way to get shot

On Jan 12, 2017 6:15 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> Go there at harvest time, see what name is on the grain trucks?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:42 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
>
>
> Obviously you didn't read his e-mail.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:32:30 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
> Are you just looking to talk to who runs the grain elevator?
>
> Grab the address, go to the county auditor (website), get their name and
> you can usually find their home number that way.  If you need their cell
> I'd do what Chuck said, talk to the neighbors.
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <(937)%20552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <(937)%20552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Go talk to the person in the nearest house.
>
>
>
> Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the
> meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social
> engineering.
>
>
>
> Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
>
> Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
>
> The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
>
> Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
>
> Farm equipment dealers know everyone.
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
>
>
> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>
>
>
> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
>
> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>
>
>
> Any sage advice?
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Chris Fabien]

I've thought about "5G+" for our next round of network upgrades!

Seriously though we got a lot of value out of using the 5G term when we
overlaid the network with 5ghz ptmp equipment. Some peolple were so
impressed that we were ahead of Verizon who had just rolled out 4G in our
area.

On Jan 12, 2017 10:54 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> But you didn't put an x That's marketing
>
> On Jan 12, 2017 8:50 PM, "Chris Fabien"  wrote:
>
>> We've been selling "5G" for about 3 years!
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2017 7:16 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/redzone-launches-5g-b
>>> randed-service-maine?utm_medium=nl_source=internal
>>> =27472010_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdNNVl6QTJPVEpsTWpsbCIsInQiOiI3NE
>>> trM1c3WGdQQVZqODZzT1hwYlhHVitDdFBDR2diRWhnOGNXQk01ZjRGOXg1bj
>>> QxMUZqMFhmU2lFclpcL2xXSWRzbUhjTWJndUNTQzRNS29mZ2ptTUVYbU1MWG
>>> dxV0dHQ2lHc0o5MVNqUDNvVU5ZRVVUdkk2TGliVUhjSGdPZTcifQ%3D%3D
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Jaime Solorza]

But you didn't put an x That's marketing

On Jan 12, 2017 8:50 PM, "Chris Fabien"  wrote:

> We've been selling "5G" for about 3 years!
>
> On Jan 12, 2017 7:16 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/redzone-launches-5g-b
>> randed-service-maine?utm_medium=nl_source=internal
>> =27472010_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdNNVl6QTJPVEpsTWpsbCIsInQiOiI3NE
>> trM1c3WGdQQVZqODZzT1hwYlhHVitDdFBDR2diRWhnOGNXQk01ZjRGOXg1bj
>> QxMUZqMFhmU2lFclpcL2xXSWRzbUhjTWJndUNTQzRNS29mZ2ptTUVYbU1MWG
>> dxV0dHQ2lHc0o5MVNqUDNvVU5ZRVVUdkk2TGliVUhjSGdPZTcifQ%3D%3D
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Chris Fabien]

We've been selling "5G" for about 3 years!

On Jan 12, 2017 7:16 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/redzone-launches-5g-
> branded-service-maine?utm_medium=nl_source=internal&
> mrkid=27472010_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdNNVl6QTJPVEpsTWpsbC
> IsInQiOiI3NEtrM1c3WGdQQVZqODZzT1hwYlhHVitDdFBDR2diRWhnOGNXQk
> 01ZjRGOXg1bjQxMUZqMFhmU2lFclpcL2xXSWRzbUhjTWJndUNTQzRNS29mZ2
> ptTUVYbU1MWGdxV0dHQ2lHc0o5MVNqUDNvVU5ZRVVUdkk2TGliVUhjSGdPZTcifQ%3D%3D
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Lewis Bergman]

I thought that last one was the secret service not the merchant marines.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 2:25 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> The meaning of words.
> An oldie but goodie:
>
> If you give the command "SECURE THE BUILDING", here is what the different
> services would do:
>
> The NAVY would drain the fluids,  cover the windows with plywood,  give
> everything a lube job, spray fungicide,  put out the lights, disconnect the
> utilities and lock the doors.
>
> The ARMY would establish a perimeter, post a guard, surround the building
> with defensive fortifications, tanks, mines and concertina wire.
>
> The MARINE CORPS would assault the building, using overlapping fields of
> fire from all appropriate points on the perimeter.  Put explosive charges
> on all the doors and blow them off, sweep the building, and then level the
> building.
>
> The AIR FORCE would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy the
> building.
>
> The COAST GUARD would drop rescue swimmers on the roof, check for
> survivors and abandon the building.
>
> The MERCHANT MARINE would break into the building at night, black out the
> windows, import escorts and beer and have a party.
>
> Now which branch do you want to join young man?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:12 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> The Marines invented a forehead thickener. Great for bouncing bullets, but
> harder to get through to them.
>
> Also, the only word they now know is "kill". Everything translates to it.
>
>
> /s
>
> On Jan 12, 2017 2:00 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> I think I will invent a skin thickener.  Or did the Marine Corps already
> do that?
>
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:58 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> im going to issue fatwas over the coming year. prepare yourselves. It is
> an outrage that my fatwas are considered any less valid than islamic
> leaders fatwas. You will all obey and abide. so let it be written, so let
> it be done
>
>
> in all seriousness though, the climate is such at this point it would
> simply be best that no one does anything, ever, under any circumstances.
> Look at the black caucus fist fight brewing with the republicans over the
> painting depicting cops as pigs, if that allowed to stay up then they
> should also require a painting depicting blacks as apes, women as servants,
> gays as perverted clowns, or whatever vile depiction of whatever subgroup
> you want to target. We should bulldoze everything into a single global flat
> surface around the planet, so no one has any more height than any other
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!
>
> From: Gino Villarini
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be
> politically incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good
> though… more science is always good!
>
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown  >
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> From the news:
>
> Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house
> Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.
>
> The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students
> to think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around
> them, according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino Villarini
>
> President  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Lewis Bergman]

They thickens my skin.  I don't think most would choose to have thick
skin.  Kind of like asking for patience I guess.  Nobody really wants the
process to get what they want, just the end result.

I would prefer that no religion be tax exempt.  I honestly believe that
when someone pays for something they have a right to have a say in how it
is done. The government, through its exemptions,  is paying a big part. I
would just rather not have them in the mix so they can't say their piece.

The government screws up nearly everything it gets oblast in and religion
is no exception. Besides,  religion does a done job of screwing up faith on
its own.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber micro strippers

[Jason McKemie]

I have a pair of these, they've worked great so far:

http://www.fiberoptic.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=JIC-375===Fiber+Optic+Stripper+Three+Hole

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Paul McCall  wrote:

> Can anyone make a suggestion on a very good set of micro strippers for
> individual fibers? the ones I've been using seem to be cheap and are a
> really frustrating struggle
>
> Sent from my Android phone using Symantec TouchDown (www.symantec.com)
>

Re: [AFMUG] New project

[Mike Hammett]

Stop working out so much? ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "George Skorup"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 7:38:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New project 

Yeah, just one extra clamp half, longer all-thread for the top mount and extra 
nuts and washers is pretty much all I meant. I think that will work fine for a 
sloped leg. 

You may want to also consider another version. We have several sites with large 
legs. I usually have to order the Valmont clamp halves that are 7" hole to hole 
center. And a couple sites off the top of my head are even bigger legs. 


On 1/12/2017 7:24 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





Howzat? 




From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:13 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New project 




Dang it... 




From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:23 PM 
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New project 


It's upside down... 



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 6:15 PM, George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 



Looks fine from my rockin chair. 




On 1/12/2017 5:23 PM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





Like this? 




From: George Skorup 
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 6:00 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New project 

Looks nice. The only thing I would recommend is bracing so the pipes aren't too 
shaky. And make it so it can be installed plumb on a sloped tower leg. 


On 1/6/2017 6:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 








Current products on the market have a limited range or pipes they fit. 

This goes from 1”OD to 4.5”OD 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Jon Langeler]

My guess is also OFDM overhead 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Jan 12, 2017, at 7:11 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Is it OFDM?  Overhead?  (cyclix prefix, pilot tones, etc.)
>  
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:05 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>  
> Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting 
> hella throughput.
> 
> As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina 
> with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's 
> 600.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
> 
> Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running 
> the B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do 
> about double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, 
> since they are half duplex radios... )
> 
> I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF 
> Lumina can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 
> 256QAM.
>  
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. 
> I'll go with what they spec it out to.
> 
> AF11x: 428
> B11: 390 
> 820c (same as IP20c): 694
> 
> 
> The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s 
> for the price of an 820c link.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
> 
> What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Jon Langeler" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
> 
> What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz?
> 
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>  
> 
> On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
> increase in throughput.
> 
> Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+.
> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single 
> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 
> 300 is really only 250.
> 
> 
> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
> polarities.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Josh Baird" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
> 
> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
> 228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, 
> right?
>  
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
> is N)
>  
> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity  
> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you 
> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>  
> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird 
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>  
> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>  
> Somewhat un-related question:
>  
> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:
>  
> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0
>  
> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need adapters?
>  
> Josh
>  
>  
> 
> Gino Villarini
> 
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been 
> beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been 
> rock solid.   
> 
>  
> 
> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had 

Re: [AFMUG] New project

[Bill Prince]

That works, but I'd like to see a little beef on those outriggers.


bp


On 1/12/2017 5:24 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Howzat?
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:13 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
Dang it...
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:23 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
It's upside down...
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 6:15 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

Looks fine from my rockin chair.


On 1/12/2017 5:23 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Like this?
*From:* George Skorup
*Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2017 6:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
Looks nice. The only thing I would recommend is bracing so the
pipes aren't too shaky. And make it so it can be installed plumb
on a sloped tower leg.

On 1/6/2017 6:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Current products on the market have a limited range or pipes
they fit.
This goes from 1”OD to 4.5”OD

Re: [AFMUG] New project

[George Skorup]

Yeah, just one extra clamp half, longer all-thread for the top mount and 
extra nuts and washers is pretty much all I meant. I think that will 
work fine for a sloped leg.


You may want to also consider another version. We have several sites 
with large legs. I usually have to order the Valmont clamp halves that 
are 7" hole to hole center. And a couple sites off the top of my head 
are even bigger legs.


On 1/12/2017 7:24 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Howzat?
*From:* Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:13 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
Dang it...
*From:* Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:23 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
It's upside down...
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 6:15 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

Looks fine from my rockin chair.


On 1/12/2017 5:23 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Like this?
*From:* George Skorup
*Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2017 6:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
Looks nice. The only thing I would recommend is bracing so the
pipes aren't too shaky. And make it so it can be installed plumb
on a sloped tower leg.

On 1/6/2017 6:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Current products on the market have a limited range or pipes
they fit.
This goes from 1”OD to 4.5”OD

Re: [AFMUG] New project

[Chuck McCown]

Dang it...

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:23 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New project

It's upside down...


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 6:15 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  Looks fine from my rockin chair. 



  On 1/12/2017 5:23 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Like this?

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 6:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New project

Looks nice. The only thing I would recommend is bracing so the pipes aren't 
too shaky. And make it so it can be installed plumb on a sloped tower leg.


On 1/6/2017 6:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Current products on the market have a limited range or pipes they fit.  

  This goes from 1”OD to 4.5”OD

Re: [AFMUG] Force UDP Stream w/ MikroTik?

[Christopher Gray]

Tht's what I'm looking for.

Thank you.



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 7:59 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> Traffic generator?
>
> On 1/12/2017 6:54 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
>
> I'm trying to test some QoS settings, and I want to send a UDP stream that
> is larger than the pipe (I've got 750 Kbps upload, I'd like to push a 1.5
> Mbps stream to see how the QoS handles the situation).
>
> I thought I could do this with a MikroTik bandwidth test setting the
> speed, but it seems the bandwidth test speeds are maximums, so when I tell
> it to go 1.5, it adjusts and stays somewhere in the 650-700 range. Any good
> ways to send a fixed stream of data with a MikroTik?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Force UDP Stream w/ MikroTik?

[George Skorup]

Traffic generator?

On 1/12/2017 6:54 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:
I'm trying to test some QoS settings, and I want to send a UDP stream 
that is larger than the pipe (I've got 750 Kbps upload, I'd like to 
push a 1.5 Mbps stream to see how the QoS handles the situation).


I thought I could do this with a MikroTik bandwidth test setting the 
speed, but it seems the bandwidth test speeds are maximums, so when I 
tell it to go 1.5, it adjusts and stays somewhere in the 650-700 
range. Any good ways to send a fixed stream of data with a MikroTik?

[AFMUG] Force UDP Stream w/ MikroTik?

[Christopher Gray]

I'm trying to test some QoS settings, and I want to send a UDP stream that
is larger than the pipe (I've got 750 Kbps upload, I'd like to push a 1.5
Mbps stream to see how the QoS handles the situation).

I thought I could do this with a MikroTik bandwidth test setting the speed,
but it seems the bandwidth test speeds are maximums, so when I tell it to
go 1.5, it adjusts and stays somewhere in the 650-700 range. Any good ways
to send a fixed stream of data with a MikroTik?

Re: [AFMUG] 450m

[Brandon Yuchasz]

Forest,

We are really excited about this product as well. I have actually held off on 
quite a few orders making due with older equipment while we waited for this new 
product. Let us know when we can get on the list…

 

Brandon

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account)
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 3:22 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m

 

Very very close...

 

I'll be taking pre-orders as soon as I have a confirmed ship date on the 
enclosures, and am confident that I don't have a major design issue on the 
latest set of circuit boards (looking good so far).   I'm expecting this to 
happen in the next week or so, but I can't be 100% confident yet.

 

The ship dates after that will depend on the arrival of the enclosures and the 
final circuit boards.   

 

 

 

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Craig Schmaderer  
wrote:

Forest how close are you to having that rack module ready!  I want now!

 

  _  

From: Af  on behalf of Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 5:12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m 

 

I seem to remember there was a connection between Motorola and PCTel/Maxrad via 
executive Marty Singer.  I was shocked when I saw that, since I had experience 
with Mr. Singer when I was at Tellabs.  I will not comment further since this 
list is public and I don’t want to get sued.  I will note that if I remember 
correctly, his PhD was actually in Experimental Psychology, and this was 
evident in his dealings with coworkers.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 4:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m

 

Here is a fragment of a 10 year old note to Motorola legal about a call I had 
with one of their guys back when I was paying pretty large royalties to be 
listed on their third party website. (I held H pol for over a year at their 
request due to their deal with Earthlink)

 

I told him that the meager amount of traffic we get from the web site is not 
worth the royalty.  And again rehearsed the points of the . . . . . . email.

 

[he] then gave me a litany of particulars that I found offensive and for the 
most part erroneous as listed below:

 

1.  WB is taking advantage of Motorola. 
2.  WB currently gets all advantages that Cascade gets.  (Oh, Really!) 
3.  WB too small to get same deal as MTI, Maxrad and Mars. 
4.  Maxrad, MTI and Mars pay zero royalty. 
5.  Motorola does not trust or suspects our data on our 900 MHz stinger. 
6.  (He said the wave form might not be accurate and how could we just draw 
a waveform like that.  They cannot believe the waveform.  I presume he meant 
antenna pattern).

 

[he] said Mot was talking to Equinox about getting FCC approval and 3rd party 
listings.  (Equinox is a competitor of WB as is Mars, Maxrad and MTI)

 

I told [him] to please remove our listing from the Motorola web site and 
consider the agreement terminated.  I told him that we were proceeding with the 
launch of all products including H pol on all frequencies.  He indicated that I 
could not do that, I told him to just watch me.

 

He would not terminate the call and continued to press for continued dialog.  I 
repeated multiple times, “please remove me from the website”.  I finally had to 
hang up on him .




-- 


Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

  forre...@imach.com |   
http://www.packetflux.com

       
 

     

   

 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Josh Luthman]

AF11x doesn't have an SFP.  That's about the only thing I can say about it.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 12, 2017 6:14 PM, "Jon Langeler"  wrote:

> What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant
> increase in throughput.
>
> Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+.
> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single
> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that
> 300 is really only 250.
>
>
> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both
> polarities.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>
> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do
> 228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that,
> right?
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters
>> (AF11x is N)
>>
>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity
>>  difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you
>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
>> joshba...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>>
>> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Somewhat un-related question:
>>
>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:
>>
>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-
>> 11W-RR1=237127=0
>>
>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need
>> adapters?
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe
>>> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit
>>> has been rock solid.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some
>>> intermitent throughtput issues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add
>>> the af11x adapters to it,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced
>>> some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went
>>> away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x
>>> and af18x
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino Villarini*
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] New project

[Mathew Howard]

It's upside down...

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 6:15 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> Looks fine from my rockin chair.
>
>
> On 1/12/2017 5:23 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Like this?
>
> *From:* George Skorup
> *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2017 6:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
>
> Looks nice. The only thing I would recommend is bracing so the pipes
> aren't too shaky. And make it so it can be installed plumb on a sloped
> tower leg.
>
> On 1/6/2017 6:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Current products on the market have a limited range or pipes they fit.
>
> This goes from 1”OD to 4.5”OD
>
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Redzone launches 5G-branded service in Maine | FierceWireless

[Jaime Solorza]

http://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/redzone-launches-5g-branded-service-maine?utm_medium=nl_source=internal=27472010_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdNNVl6QTJPVEpsTWpsbCIsInQiOiI3NEtrM1c3WGdQQVZqODZzT1hwYlhHVitDdFBDR2diRWhnOGNXQk01ZjRGOXg1bjQxMUZqMFhmU2lFclpcL2xXSWRzbUhjTWJndUNTQzRNS29mZ2ptTUVYbU1MWGdxV0dHQ2lHc0o5MVNqUDNvVU5ZRVVUdkk2TGliVUhjSGdPZTcifQ%3D%3D

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Mike Hammett]

It'd be nice to hear from UBNT, but I suspect that won't happen. They'll insist 
theirs is more efficient than a Lumina because it moves more bits in a given 
channel size, ignoring the additional polarity usage. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:11:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 



Is it OFDM? Overhead? (cyclix prefix, pilot tones, etc.) 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:05 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting 
hella throughput. 

As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina 
with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's 
600. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > 
To: "af" < af@afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running the 
B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do about 
double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, since 
they are half duplex radios... ) 
I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF Lumina 
can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 256QAM. 



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. 
I'll go with what they spec it out to. 

AF11x: 428 
B11: 390 
820c (same as IP20c): 694 


The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s 
for the price of an 820c link. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 

What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Jon Langeler" < jon-ispli...@michwave.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 

What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? 

Jon Langeler 

Michwave Technologies, Inc. 




On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
increase in throughput. 

Their claim is 1.2 gb+. 
Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. 
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. 
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction 
(they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really 
only 250. 


Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
polarities. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 

This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? 



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 




IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
is N) 



What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference 
between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic 
license you can double your throughput with the af11x 



From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com 
> 
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 





Good news - thanks for sharing. 



Somewhat un-related question: 



I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: 



http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0 



Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? 



Josh 




Gino Villarini 

President 

Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 
 


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 




Hey all, just dropping by to share our 

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Ken Hohhof]

Go there at harvest time, see what name is on the grain trucks?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

 

Obviously you didn't read his e-mail.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Josh Luthman"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:32:30 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

Are you just looking to talk to who runs the grain elevator?

Grab the address, go to the county auditor (website), get their name and you 
can usually find their home number that way.  If you need their cell I'd do 
what Chuck said, talk to the neighbors.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:

Go talk to the person in the nearest house.

 

Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering.  

 

Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.

Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.  

The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.  

Fertilizer dealers know everyone.

Farm equipment dealers know everyone.  

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

 

We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections. 

 

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.

I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance.

 

Any sage advice?


 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] New project

[George Skorup]

Looks fine from my rockin chair.

On 1/12/2017 5:23 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Like this?
*From:* George Skorup
*Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2017 6:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New project
Looks nice. The only thing I would recommend is bracing so the pipes 
aren't too shaky. And make it so it can be installed plumb on a sloped 
tower leg.


On 1/6/2017 6:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Current products on the market have a limited range or pipes they fit.
This goes from 1”OD to 4.5”OD

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Ken Hohhof]

Is it OFDM?  Overhead?  (cyclix prefix, pilot tones, etc.)

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

 

Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting 
hella throughput.

As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina 
with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's 
600.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Mathew Howard"  >
To: "af"  >
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running the 
B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do about 
double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, since 
they are half duplex radios... )

I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF Lumina 
can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 256QAM.

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:

I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. 
I'll go with what they spec it out to.

AF11x: 428
B11: 390 
820c (same as IP20c): 694


The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s 
for the price of an 820c link.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Mike Hammett"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari?



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Jon Langeler"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz?

Jon Langeler

Michwave Technologies, Inc.

 


On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:

At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
increase in throughput.

Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+.
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction 
(they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really 
only 250.


Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
polarities.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Mike Hammett]

Right, if the spectrum is available, they'll be using 2x 80 MHz and getting 
hella throughput. 

As far as the AF11's inefficiency? The world may never know. Right, a Lumina 
with the same specs, but short on QAM is doing 732 megs as opposed to UBNT's 
600. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:00:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 



Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running the 
B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do about 
double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same time, since 
they are half duplex radios... ) 

I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF Lumina 
can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do 256QAM. 



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. 
I'll go with what they spec it out to. 

AF11x: 428 
B11: 390 
820c (same as IP20c): 694 


The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s 
for the price of an 820c link. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Jon Langeler" < jon-ispli...@michwave.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? 


Jon Langeler 
Michwave Technologies, Inc. 



On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
increase in throughput. 

Their claim is 1.2 gb+. 
Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. 
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. 
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction 
(they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really 
only 250. 


Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
polarities. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? 


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 




IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
is N) 


What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference 
between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic 
license you can double your throughput with the af11x 


From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com 
> 
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 





Good news - thanks for sharing. 


Somewhat un-related question: 


I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: 


http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0 



Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? 


Josh 






Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 





Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta 
testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock 
solid. 

We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! 

This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
throughtput issues, 

The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
af11x adapters to it, 

The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. 

For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
af18x 



Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, but if the spectrum is available, most people are going to be running
the B11 on two 80mhz channels, both directions, so it'll theoretically do
about double that (one direction... but not both directions at the same
time, since they are half duplex radios... )

I still don't understand why the AF11 can only do 600Mbps... our old SAF
Lumina can do 366Mbps on one polarity in the same size channel, and only do
256QAM.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can
> run. I'll go with what they spec it out to.
>
> AF11x: 428
> B11: 390
> 820c (same as IP20c): 694
>
>
> The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of
> B11s for the price of an 820c link.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>
> What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Jon Langeler" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>
> What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant
> increase in throughput.
>
> Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+.
> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single
> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that
> 300 is really only 250.
>
>
> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both
> polarities.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Josh Baird" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>
> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do
> 228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that,
> right?
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters
>> (AF11x is N)
>>
>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity
>>  difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you
>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
>> joshba...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>>
>> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Somewhat un-related 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Mike Hammett]

I'll go with two polarities as I think that's the only way the B11 can run. 
I'll go with what they spec it out to. 

AF11x: 428 
B11: 390 
820c (same as IP20c): 694 


The costs can't even compare, though. You could build a whole network of B11s 
for the price of an 820c link. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:17:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jon Langeler"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? 


Jon Langeler 
Michwave Technologies, Inc. 



On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
increase in throughput. 

Their claim is 1.2 gb+. 
Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. 
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. 
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction 
(they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really 
only 250. 


Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
polarities. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? 


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 




IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
is N) 


What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference 
between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic 
license you can double your throughput with the af11x 


From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com 
> 
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 





Good news - thanks for sharing. 


Somewhat un-related question: 


I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: 


http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0 



Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? 


Josh 






Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 





Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta 
testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock 
solid. 

We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! 

This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
throughtput issues, 

The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
af11x adapters to it, 

The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. 

For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
af18x 



Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Jon Langeler]

Your supposed to have this stuff memorized 

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Jan 12, 2017, at 6:17 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Jon Langeler" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
> 
> What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz?
> 
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
> 
> 
> On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
> increase in throughput.
> 
> Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+.
> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single 
> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 
> 300 is really only 250.
> 
> 
> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
> polarities.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Josh Baird" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
> 
> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
> 228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, 
> right?
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters 
>> (AF11x is N)
>> 
>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity  
>> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you 
>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>> 
>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird 
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>> 
>> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>> 
>> Somewhat un-related question:
>> 
>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:
>> 
>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0
>> 
>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need adapters?
>> 
>> Josh
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gino Villarini
>> 
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been 
>>> beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has 
>>> been rock solid.   
>>>  
>>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! 
>>>  
>>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
>>> throughtput issues, 
>>>  
>>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
>>> af11x adapters to it, 
>>>  
>>> The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
>>> lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. 
>>>  
>>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
>>> af18x
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Gino Villarini
>>> 
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Mike Hammett]

What's the Nurburgring time for an F-250, a Grand Caravan and a Ferrari? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jon Langeler"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 5:14:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz? 


Jon Langeler 
Michwave Technologies, Inc. 



On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 





At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
increase in throughput. 

Their claim is 1.2 gb+. 
Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. 
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. 
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction 
(they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really 
only 250. 


Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
polarities. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Baird" < joshba...@gmail.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? 


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 




IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
is N) 


What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference 
between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic 
license you can double your throughput with the af11x 


From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com 
> 
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 





Good news - thanks for sharing. 


Somewhat un-related question: 


I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: 


http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0 



Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? 


Josh 






Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 





Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta 
testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock 
solid. 

We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! 

This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
throughtput issues, 

The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
af11x adapters to it, 

The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. 

For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
af18x 



Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Jon Langeler]

What's the one way throughout of Mimosa vs AF11x vs IP20 in 40Mhz?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Jan 12, 2017, at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
> increase in throughput.
> 
> Their claim is 1.2 gb+.
> Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+.
> That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+.
> Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single 
> direction (they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 
> 300 is really only 250.
> 
> 
> Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
> polarities.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Josh Baird" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
> 
> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
> 228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, 
> right?
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters 
>> (AF11x is N)
>> 
>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity  
>> difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you 
>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>> 
>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird 
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>> 
>> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>> 
>> Somewhat un-related question:
>> 
>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:
>> 
>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0
>> 
>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need adapters?
>> 
>> Josh
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gino Villarini
>> 
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been 
>>> beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has 
>>> been rock solid.   
>>>  
>>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! 
>>>  
>>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
>>> throughtput issues, 
>>>  
>>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
>>> af11x adapters to it, 
>>>  
>>> The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
>>> lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. 
>>>  
>>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
>>> af18x
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Gino Villarini
>>> 
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Mike Hammett]

At 40 MHz and a single polarity, you're looking at an almost insignificant 
increase in throughput. 

Their claim is 1.2 gb+. 
Cut that in half as they're advertising the aggregate, so 600 mb+. 
That's using both polarities, so now only 300 mb+. 
Only I haven't heard of anyone getting much more than 500 in a single direction 
(they may certainly exist, I just haven't seen them), so now that 300 is really 
only 250. 


Not much of an upgrade unless you can also get larger channels in both 
polarities. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Baird"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:47:42 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 


This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
228Mbps full-duplex. The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right? 


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 




IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
is N) 


What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade? Not much capacity difference 
between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more. Only if you have a xpic 
license you can double your throughput with the af11x 


From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com 
> 
Reply-To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM 
To: " af@afmug.com " < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience 





Good news - thanks for sharing. 


Somewhat un-related question: 


I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes: 


http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0 



Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x? Do I need adapters? 


Josh 






Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini < g...@aeronetpr.com > wrote: 





Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta 
testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock 
solid. 

We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port! 

This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
throughtput issues, 

The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
af11x adapters to it, 

The link went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away. 

For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
af18x 



Gino Villarini 
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Mike Hammett]

They also aren't likely to own farm real estate. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:43:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact 


I don't know anyone under 50 that's a member of any of the clubs you just 
listed. 


On Jan 12, 2017 1:39 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






More work. Need a personal introduction for best effect so that takes lotsa 
homework. Lions, Optimist, Rotary, Elks, Eagles, Churches etc etc. Everything 
insurance and real estate agents do to networking will be needed to get to the 
personal introduction. 





From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:36 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact 


we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward getting an 
appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial contact. Door knocking is 
preferred to me personally, but if they have a no soliciting sign, thats a good 
way to get a sour taste. But an in person initial meeting is ideal, I have a 
maximum initial offering I can make, but im cheap so I can get the expectation 
on incentive set low enough that a final negotiation will let them walk away 
with more than initially offered, likely still being less than im authorized to 
offer on initial contact. that is all going to be defined by the taste in the 
mouth. 


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Go talk to the person in the nearest house. 

Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number. Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering. 

Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff. 
Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain. 
The local pesticide dealer may hook you up. 
Fertilizer dealers know everyone. 
Farm equipment dealers know everyone. 




From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact 




We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections. 

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship. 
I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance. 

Any sage advice? 

-- 




If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. 




-- 




If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. 

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Chuck McCown]

I adopt the Trump style of argument at times

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 3:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

Chuck will argue otherwise, but I think few are in his position.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:06:37 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

Hi,

Not to be picky about terminology, but by definition a "tax" is "a compulsory 
contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and 
business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and 
transactions."


Isn't this money collected as USF and other "fees" on telephone bills? And 
these are fees that I can NOT remove from my phone bill, so basically it's a 
tax... it's just a telephone tax rather than income or sales tax. Right?

Travis

On 1/12/2017 9:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Depending on the area, FCC study area, parent trap rules etc, a rural sub can 
earn up to about $200/month even if they don’t pay their bill or use any 
services.  It used to be more.  If you overearn, your welfare check gets cut, 
but in any case the guaranteed rate of return used to be 11.25%.  And that is 
an ROI after cost recovery of legit expenses.  That is an EBITDA ROR.  Hard to 
pass up a deal like that.  

  But the FCC is deflating that whole program.  They pushed a whole bunch of 
these rural companies into a lucrative A-CAM deal that pays them a fixed amount 
for the next 10 years with the expectation of nothing after that.  For the “buy 
out” they have to agree to upgrade to 25 Mbps service.  

  They did cap executive pay for a while then repealed it, I think it is back 
on.  And for the non A-CAM companies (it was an elective program) they are 
capping investment.  But still, it is around $10K per dwelling.  That may seem 
high, but I have personally had BLM permitting expenses equal $40K per dwelling 
alone with total cost of construction hitting $200K per dwelling.  

  The magic of revenue pooling, no tax dollars are harmed in this scheme...

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 9:51 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

  Chuck, here’s a question for you.



  I seem to remember checking how much Frontier paid for customers Verizon and 
AT didn’t want, and I think it was around the same $2000/sub number that 
cable companies are typically priced at.  Or maybe it was $1000 and I 
rationalized it in my mind as half of a cable customer because no TV.  Either 
way, it was a lot of money for unwanted customers and decrepit infrastructure.



  Why such a high value?  Why not $1?



  Are they factoring in an expected stream of USF/CAF subsidies as part of the 
value of buying a customer?  Or are they just being stupid?  I assume executive 
pay goes up the bigger the company grows, so maybe perverse incentives.  Look 
at the marvelous Hindenburg we have built, it’s HUGE!







  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:39 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?



  Even if EBITDA is zero year over year, you can look at growth of equity.  If 
the assets are truly worth what they are booked at, then buy for that value.  I 
prefer net present value of future cash flows to be a part of the analysis. 



  But for something that has been a going concern for some time, with little 
debt and equity close to net asset value, multiples of EBITDA are a comfortable 
way to value the thing.  



  However, in a WISP situation where you are buying the customer and some 
amount of SM and AP that may or may not have much value to you, net present 
value may be the way to go.  



  From: Ken Hohhof 

  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 8:39 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?



  I think there is some validity in getting the revenue and expense numbers 
separately and doing your own analysis.  If you just ask for their net income, 
that will vary greatly based on how the current owners are managing the 
business, I think there are 3 types:



  1)  Being run as a startup

  2)  Being run as a big company / cash cow

  3)  Being groomed for sale



  A 190 sub WISP is probably being run as a startup.  First, that means 
managing cashflow not profit.  Second, that means any time you  have an extra 
dime, you spend it on expanding the business.  If those are capital 
expenditures, maybe they go into depreciation and get excluded from EBITDA.  
But if they go into advertising, subscriber radios, install materials and 
labor, etc., that gets expensed and makes the business look less profitable.



  Whatever year it was that capital gains taxes went back up, I heard a 
tutorial on how to groom 

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Mike Hammett]

Obviously you didn't read his e-mail. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:32:30 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact 


Are you just looking to talk to who runs the grain elevator? 

Grab the address, go to the county auditor (website), get their name and you 
can usually find their home number that way. If you need their cell I'd do what 
Chuck said, talk to the neighbors. 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Go talk to the person in the nearest house. 

Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number. Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering. 

Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff. 
Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain. 
The local pesticide dealer may hook you up. 
Fertilizer dealers know everyone. 
Farm equipment dealers know everyone. 




From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact 




We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections. 

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship. 
I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance. 

Any sage advice? 

-- 




If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. 

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Mike Hammett]

Chuck will argue otherwise, but I think few are in his position. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Travis Johnson"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:06:37 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub? 

Hi, 

Not to be picky about terminology, but by definition a "tax" is " a compulsory 
contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and 
business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and 
transactions." 


Isn't this money collected as USF and other "fees" on telephone bills? And 
these are fees that I can NOT remove from my phone bill, so basically it's a 
tax... it's just a telephone tax rather than income or sales tax. Right? 

Travis 

On 1/12/2017 9:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote: 





Depending on the area, FCC study area, parent trap rules etc, a rural sub can 
earn up to about $200/month even if they don’t pay their bill or use any 
services. It used to be more. If you overearn, your welfare check gets cut, but 
in any case the guaranteed rate of return used to be 11.25%. And that is an ROI 
after cost recovery of legit expenses. That is an EBITDA ROR. Hard to pass up a 
deal like that. 

But the FCC is deflating that whole program. They pushed a whole bunch of these 
rural companies into a lucrative A-CAM deal that pays them a fixed amount for 
the next 10 years with the expectation of nothing after that. For the “buy out” 
they have to agree to upgrade to 25 Mbps service. 

They did cap executive pay for a while then repealed it, I think it is back on. 
And for the non A-CAM companies (it was an elective program) they are capping 
investment. But still, it is around $10K per dwelling. That may seem high, but 
I have personally had BLM permitting expenses equal $40K per dwelling alone 
with total cost of construction hitting $200K per dwelling. 

The magic of revenue pooling, no tax dollars are harmed in this scheme... 




From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 9:51 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub? 



Chuck, here’s a question for you. 

I seem to remember checking how much Frontier paid for customers Verizon and 
AT didn’t want, and I think it was around the same $2000/sub number that 
cable companies are typically priced at. Or maybe it was $1000 and I 
rationalized it in my mind as half of a cable customer because no TV. Either 
way, it was a lot of money for unwanted customers and decrepit infrastructure. 

Why such a high value? Why not $1? 

Are they factoring in an expected stream of USF/CAF subsidies as part of the 
value of buying a customer? Or are they just being stupid? I assume executive 
pay goes up the bigger the company grows, so maybe perverse incentives. Look at 
the marvelous Hindenburg we have built, it’s HUGE! 





From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:39 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub? 




Even if EBITDA is zero year over year, you can look at growth of equity. If the 
assets are truly worth what they are booked at, then buy for that value. I 
prefer net present value of future cash flows to be a part of the analysis. 



But for something that has been a going concern for some time, with little debt 
and equity close to net asset value, multiples of EBITDA are a comfortable way 
to value the thing. 



However, in a WISP situation where you are buying the customer and some amount 
of SM and AP that may or may not have much value to you, net present value may 
be the way to go. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 8:39 AM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub? 



I think there is some validity in getting the revenue and expense numbers 
separately and doing your own analysis. If you just ask for their net income, 
that will vary greatly based on how the current owners are managing the 
business, I think there are 3 types: 

1) Being run as a startup 
2) Being run as a big company / cash cow 
3) Being groomed for sale 

A 190 sub WISP is probably being run as a startup. First, that means managing 
cashflow not profit. Second, that means any time you have an extra dime, you 
spend it on expanding the business. If those are capital expenditures, maybe 
they go into depreciation and get excluded from EBITDA. But if they go into 
advertising, subscriber radios, install materials and labor, etc., that gets 
expensed and makes the business look less profitable. 

Whatever year it was that capital gains taxes went back up, I heard a tutorial 
on how to groom your business for sale before the deadline. Basically you stop 
focusing on increasing revenue, and instead cut costs, it will immediately 
improve your EBITDA and therefore your valuation. I think we’ve all experienced 
this when something causes us to temporarily cut back 

Re: [AFMUG] Rise

[Mike Hammett]

The DirecTV bundle is a "bundle". They give you a discount of $5/month on your 
TV if the Internet has a matching $5 discount. The difference being that like 
all promos, it expires after 2 years. 


and you're giving money to AT 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 2:07:26 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Rise 




Note the Dish/Direct bundle at the bottom. I wonder if all WISPs or ISPs can do 
a deal with Dish and Direct? 
I know I used to sell Direct as part of the NCTA plan, but they did away with 
that. Anyone do bundles? 




From: Rise Broadband 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:02 PM 
To: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Subject: Hey MCCOWN,CHUCK, speaking of resolutions 



To view this email as a web page, go here. 







Rise Broadband Logo Internet Where You Are







Dear MCCOWN,CHUCK, 


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now have faster interne t speeds a vailable. Faster speeds to SURF longer, 
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Broadband Internet service agreement. Add digital phone for $10.00 per month 
and get free installation. Additional fees will apply. As a designed 
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Broadband, is proud to offer the Lifeline program in the state of Kansas. We 
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[AFMUG] Fiber micro strippers

[Paul McCall]

Can anyone make a suggestion on a very good set of micro strippers for 
individual fibers? the ones I've been using seem to be cheap and are a really 
frustrating struggle

Sent from my Android phone using Symantec TouchDown (www.symantec.com)

Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

[Brian Webster]

How tall do you want to go and how much load will you put on it? There have 
been some square tube and aluminum tubing do it yourself plans I have seen in 
the amateur radio community. Some of them however have very limited top load 
capacity as many of them are designed as supports for ends of a long wire 
antenna. 

 

You can find flagpole hitch mounts cheap on amazon and build some sort of 
nested pipe/conduit arrangement if the height requirement is not too much.

 

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:56 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

 

I'd love to get a pneumatic one with outriggers, but it's so damn spendy.

 

Poor man's version is 
http://www.tiltnraise.com/purchase/order-page/2-inch-tilt-over-antenna-mount/.  
Add your own mast with 2" OD at the bottom.

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Jeremy" 

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 1/12/2017 1:30:57 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

 

Also, http://www.hilomast.com/masts/mast-accessories/reese-hitch-mount/

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

Quick Google search finds this 
http://www.larsonelectronics.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=145898 

 =CNy_yaKevdECFQUEaQodtWwKuw

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Maybe that is what it takes to read the meters in the area.  

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:58 AM

To: Animal Farm 

Subject: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

 

See attached Pic.  Our power company has this pickup truck with a gigantic mast 
on the rear end.  I assume they're testing their smart meter junk with itor 
something.

 

My question is where can I get one of those?!

I'm definitely jealous of their survey pole size.

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

dont forget us little guys

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:45 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> this has a good potential to open up new markets for you
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Thanks,
>> $250 is nothing when it comes to advertising.  But if nobody reads it ...
>>
>> *From:* Jerry Head
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:55 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers
>>
>> i read it, I consider it quite informative.
>>
>> On 1/12/2017 1:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> Just got a piece of directed spam offering to feature my company in
>> Inside Towers.
>> I don’t recall seeing this ezine before.
>>
>> $250 a year.  Anyone see this rag?  Anyone actually read it?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

[Chuck McCown]

That is what I am constantly looking for, thanks.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 2:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

this has a good potential to open up new markets for you

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Thanks,
  $250 is nothing when it comes to advertising.  But if nobody reads it ...

  From: Jerry Head 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:55 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

  i read it, I consider it quite informative.

  On 1/12/2017 1:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Just got a piece of directed spam offering to feature my company in Inside 
Towers.
I don’t recall seeing this ezine before.  

$250 a year.  Anyone see this rag?  Anyone actually read it?






-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

this has a good potential to open up new markets for you

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Thanks,
> $250 is nothing when it comes to advertising.  But if nobody reads it ...
>
> *From:* Jerry Head
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:55 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers
>
> i read it, I consider it quite informative.
>
> On 1/12/2017 1:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Just got a piece of directed spam offering to feature my company in Inside
> Towers.
> I don’t recall seeing this ezine before.
>
> $250 a year.  Anyone see this rag?  Anyone actually read it?
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Chuck McCown]

High penetration rate for a small WISP would not necessarily make it more value 
to me as a potential purchase.  No room to grow.  

From: Brian Webster 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 2:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

That is why I brought that point up. Most states have broadband adoption rates 
between 74 and 77 percent of the homes passed. That is the adoption rate for 
all broadband providers combined not any one carrier. Some higher adoption 
rates reach 80% and as Chuck mentioned in their particular neighborhoods they 
have achieved 84% which is not surprising if you are the first carrier in AND 
offer fiber. Their claim of 90% as one carrier in the face of competition is 
suspect as to what they think penetration is to them. I suspect it is the 
percentage of leads that come in to them and they close and make that lead a 
paying customer. 

 

Knowing the total potential homes passed and comparing that to the number of 
subscribers will tell you the WISP’s market penetration rate. Look at the other 
competitors in that same area and asses what may be potential for subscriber 
growth using the existing infrastructure. It would also be crucial to assess 
the potential for the sites to add dedicated PTP radios and be able to sell 
dedicated enterprise business connections. Many WISP’s are finding that as a 
tremendous growth market without having to do a large footprint expansion, and 
these customers are much higher revenue with less customer support 
requirements. It’s a different business model and sales mentality but for many 
WISP’s it’s a fairly easy overlay on their existing market area. If the WISP 
does not already have a coverage map created you should have one done so that 
you can see the true market potential and be able to calculate the homes 
passed. It is good to look at that potential compared to the competitive 
broadband providers and also look at where there may be overlap to your 
network. No sense paying for something you already can cover.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

I am confused when he says they have 90% “take rate” yet there is another WISP 
competitor in the area.  I assume there are also people with Hughesnet, Exede, 
mobile hotspots, and Luddites with no Internet.  Perhaps he means something 
other than they have 90% of households in the coverage area as customers.

 

I can understand with a $20 plan they could sweep up even the people who could 
almost use dialup.  Still 90% market penetration in the face of competition 
seems amazing.  I’m guessing 10% of households in my area don’t have any kind 
of fixed Internet, either because they don’t need no stinkin’ Internet, or 
because they just use the data plan on their smartphone.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

We see the asymptote converging on about 84% in our FTTH neighborhoods.   

 

From: Brian Webster 

Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 7:36 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

A couple of things that seem to always come up in these deals. One, what future 
revenue has already been taken by the current owners. What I mean by that are 
prepaid annual contracts, side deals on site rent in exchange for relay sites, 
stuff like that.

 

Second, is the owners tend to want you to buy their potential. When you say 90% 
take rate you should dig in to those numbers. The highest adoption rate in 
America are only about 80% of households passed. Are they saying 90% take rate 
on leads that come in? How many homes does their network potentially cover vs. 
number of subscribers. How much competition is there for those homes. What 
equipment do they have deployed, signal levels and client distances? This will 
have a big effect on your ability to upsell bandwidth. If the clients are all 
marginal connections you will not have the ability to deliver much capacity off 
the sectors if you want to upsell or if customer want more bandwidth. This 
means upgrades at your own cost. 

 

Third, look very carefully at tower site leases or agreements. Are there any? 
Do they allow for a transfer of ownership and stay in effect? Are there balloon 
rent increases that would change your forecasts? Do they have renewal terms 
that are long enough for you to make your money on the purchase of their 
company? Large company or small being purchased the tower site agreements are 
one very important thing to dig deep on the details.

 

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:08 PM
To: 

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Brian Webster]

That is why I brought that point up. Most states have broadband adoption rates 
between 74 and 77 percent of the homes passed. That is the adoption rate for 
all broadband providers combined not any one carrier. Some higher adoption 
rates reach 80% and as Chuck mentioned in their particular neighborhoods they 
have achieved 84% which is not surprising if you are the first carrier in AND 
offer fiber. Their claim of 90% as one carrier in the face of competition is 
suspect as to what they think penetration is to them. I suspect it is the 
percentage of leads that come in to them and they close and make that lead a 
paying customer. 

 

Knowing the total potential homes passed and comparing that to the number of 
subscribers will tell you the WISP’s market penetration rate. Look at the other 
competitors in that same area and asses what may be potential for subscriber 
growth using the existing infrastructure. It would also be crucial to assess 
the potential for the sites to add dedicated PTP radios and be able to sell 
dedicated enterprise business connections. Many WISP’s are finding that as a 
tremendous growth market without having to do a large footprint expansion, and 
these customers are much higher revenue with less customer support 
requirements. It’s a different business model and sales mentality but for many 
WISP’s it’s a fairly easy overlay on their existing market area. If the WISP 
does not already have a coverage map created you should have one done so that 
you can see the true market potential and be able to calculate the homes 
passed. It is good to look at that potential compared to the competitive 
broadband providers and also look at where there may be overlap to your 
network. No sense paying for something you already can cover.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

I am confused when he says they have 90% “take rate” yet there is another WISP 
competitor in the area.  I assume there are also people with Hughesnet, Exede, 
mobile hotspots, and Luddites with no Internet.  Perhaps he means something 
other than they have 90% of households in the coverage area as customers.

 

I can understand with a $20 plan they could sweep up even the people who could 
almost use dialup.  Still 90% market penetration in the face of competition 
seems amazing.  I’m guessing 10% of households in my area don’t have any kind 
of fixed Internet, either because they don’t need no stinkin’ Internet, or 
because they just use the data plan on their smartphone.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

We see the asymptote converging on about 84% in our FTTH neighborhoods.   

 

From: Brian Webster 

Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 7:36 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

A couple of things that seem to always come up in these deals. One, what future 
revenue has already been taken by the current owners. What I mean by that are 
prepaid annual contracts, side deals on site rent in exchange for relay sites, 
stuff like that.

 

Second, is the owners tend to want you to buy their potential. When you say 90% 
take rate you should dig in to those numbers. The highest adoption rate in 
America are only about 80% of households passed. Are they saying 90% take rate 
on leads that come in? How many homes does their network potentially cover vs. 
number of subscribers. How much competition is there for those homes. What 
equipment do they have deployed, signal levels and client distances? This will 
have a big effect on your ability to upsell bandwidth. If the clients are all 
marginal connections you will not have the ability to deliver much capacity off 
the sectors if you want to upsell or if customer want more bandwidth. This 
means upgrades at your own cost. 

 

Third, look very carefully at tower site leases or agreements. Are there any? 
Do they allow for a transfer of ownership and stay in effect? Are there balloon 
rent increases that would change your forecasts? Do they have renewal terms 
that are long enough for you to make your money on the purchase of their 
company? Large company or small being purchased the tower site agreements are 
one very important thing to dig deep on the details.

 

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

I hear that is around 12x - 18x months of revenue and a heck of a lot easier to 
calculate when ballparking. They know their revenue (or well, is somewhat easy 
to figure out). They probably can't spell 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

[Chuck McCown]

Thanks,
$250 is nothing when it comes to advertising.  But if nobody reads it ...

From: Jerry Head 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

i read it, I consider it quite informative.

On 1/12/2017 1:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Just got a piece of directed spam offering to feature my company in Inside 
Towers.
  I don’t recall seeing this ezine before.  

  $250 a year.  Anyone see this rag?  Anyone actually read it?

Re: [AFMUG] OT Inside towers

[Jerry Head]

i read it, I consider it quite informative.

On 1/12/2017 1:04 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Just got a piece of directed spam offering to feature my company in 
Inside Towers.

I don’t recall seeing this ezine before.
$250 a year.  Anyone see this rag?  Anyone actually read it?

Re: [AFMUG] Rise

[Sterling Jacobson]

I don’t think there is anything specific to WISPs or ISPs.

I tried this with my last company, and all I had to do was make their dealer 
requirements.
I think they had a few different avenues for reselling and installing back then 
that might still apply.

The one I had on my desk, but ultimately rejected, required me to hold a 
certain dollar value of inventory for the future customers.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Rise

Note the Dish/Direct bundle at the bottom.  I wonder if all WISPs or ISPs can 
do a deal with Dish and Direct?
I know I used to sell Direct as part of the NCTA plan, but they did away with 
that.  Anyone do bundles?

From: Rise Broadband
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:02 PM
To: ch...@wbmfg.com
Subject: Hey MCCOWN,CHUCK, speaking of resolutions

To view this email as a web page, go 
here.

[Rise Broadband Logo Internet Where You 
Are]




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Dear MCCOWN,CHUCK,

We have made significant improvements to our internet service in your area. You 
now have faster internet speeds a vailable. Faster speeds to SURF longer, 
STREAM faster, and GAME all night long.

Upgrade your Rise Broadband Internet speed package now and lock in your rate of 
$39.95/month for 2 years and we'll send you a $100 Visa® Gift Card.





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Call 866-326-2161

 Don't wait, offer ends 1/31/17


Did you know...Rise Broadband is also an Authorized Dealer for DISH and 
DIRECTV? We not only provide High Speed Internet and Home Phone service, you 
now have a choice on your TV too.

Ask about how you can add DISH or DIRECTV to your Rise Broadband Internet 
service, and bundle for even more savings!



Go Paperless
Go green and save with electronic billing.
Ask for 
paperless



Refer a Friend
Earn $100 by referring a friend, family member or neighbor.
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More



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*With successful activation. Limited-time offer. May not be combined with other 
offers. Fastest speed available at your home. $39.95/mo. with a 2-year Rise 
Broadband Internet service agreement. Add digital phone for $10.00 per month 
and get free installation. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Jaime Solorza]

Great Steve Now FBI and CIA are going to monitor our lists cause you
used that word... Aye Dips what a maroon!!!

On Jan 12, 2017 12:59 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> im going to issue fatwas over the coming year. prepare yourselves. It is
> an outrage that my fatwas are considered any less valid than islamic
> leaders fatwas. You will all obey and abide. so let it be written, so let
> it be done
>
>
> in all seriousness though, the climate is such at this point it would
> simply be best that no one does anything, ever, under any circumstances.
> Look at the black caucus fist fight brewing with the republicans over the
> painting depicting cops as pigs, if that allowed to stay up then they
> should also require a painting depicting blacks as apes, women as servants,
> gays as perverted clowns, or whatever vile depiction of whatever subgroup
> you want to target. We should bulldoze everything into a single global flat
> surface around the planet, so no one has any more height than any other
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> *Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!*
>>
>> *From:* Gino Villarini
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>>
>> The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be
>> politically incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good
>> though… more science is always good!
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown <
>> ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>>
>> From the news:
>>
>>  Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house
>> Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.
>>
>> The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students
>> to think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around
>> them, according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Jaime Solorza]

OK my turn..  Satan and science don't jibe Science is based on the
search for truth... Whether you choose to believe in science or not,
doesn't really matter... It holds out time and time again.Satan is the
opposite..   He is the great deceiver He lies out of his ass in most
books, religious or not,  99% of time.Except for a few utterances of
the glory he once had and saw now eternally gone,  he lies.  He gets all
the cool lines in Paradise Lost but they are lies... eg.   ",Arise, Awake,
 or forever be fallen... " as he orders his cast out buddies to wake up
after their sudden stop in hell floor.   They will be forever fallen.
 Zaz They should have named it different but just as provocative.

On Jan 12, 2017 10:42 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> The meaning of words.
> An oldie but goodie:
>
> If you give the command "SECURE THE BUILDING", here is what the different
> services would do:
>
> The NAVY would drain the fluids,  cover the windows with plywood,  give
> everything a lube job, spray fungicide,  put out the lights, disconnect the
> utilities and lock the doors.
>
> The ARMY would establish a perimeter, post a guard, surround the building
> with defensive fortifications, tanks, mines and concertina wire.
>
> The MARINE CORPS would assault the building, using overlapping fields of
> fire from all appropriate points on the perimeter.  Put explosive charges
> on all the doors and blow them off, sweep the building, and then level the
> building.
>
> The AIR FORCE would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy the
> building.
>
> The COAST GUARD would drop rescue swimmers on the roof, check for
> survivors and abandon the building.
>
> The MERCHANT MARINE would break into the building at night, black out the
> windows, import escorts and beer and have a party.
>
> Now which branch do you want to join young man?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:12 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> The Marines invented a forehead thickener. Great for bouncing bullets, but
> harder to get through to them.
>
> Also, the only word they now know is "kill". Everything translates to it.
>
>
> /s
>
> On Jan 12, 2017 2:00 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> I think I will invent a skin thickener.  Or did the Marine Corps already
> do that?
>
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:58 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> im going to issue fatwas over the coming year. prepare yourselves. It is
> an outrage that my fatwas are considered any less valid than islamic
> leaders fatwas. You will all obey and abide. so let it be written, so let
> it be done
>
>
> in all seriousness though, the climate is such at this point it would
> simply be best that no one does anything, ever, under any circumstances.
> Look at the black caucus fist fight brewing with the republicans over the
> painting depicting cops as pigs, if that allowed to stay up then they
> should also require a painting depicting blacks as apes, women as servants,
> gays as perverted clowns, or whatever vile depiction of whatever subgroup
> you want to target. We should bulldoze everything into a single global flat
> surface around the planet, so no one has any more height than any other
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!
>
> From: Gino Villarini
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be
> politically incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good
> though… more science is always good!
>
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown  >
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> From the news:
>
> Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house
> Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.
>
> The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students
> to think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around
> them, according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino Villarini
>
> President  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Chuck McCown]

The meaning of words.
An oldie but goodie:

If you give the command "SECURE THE BUILDING", here is what the different 
services would do:

The NAVY would drain the fluids,  cover the windows with plywood,  give 
everything a lube job, spray fungicide,  put out the lights, disconnect the 
utilities and lock the doors.

The ARMY would establish a perimeter, post a guard, surround the building with 
defensive fortifications, tanks, mines and concertina wire.   

The MARINE CORPS would assault the building, using overlapping fields of fire 
from all appropriate points on the perimeter.  Put explosive charges on all the 
doors and blow them off, sweep the building, and then level the building.  

The AIR FORCE would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy the 
building.

The COAST GUARD would drop rescue swimmers on the roof, check for survivors and 
abandon the building.

The MERCHANT MARINE would break into the building at night, black out the 
windows, import escorts and beer and have a party.  

Now which branch do you want to join young man?






From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

The Marines invented a forehead thickener. Great for bouncing bullets, but 
harder to get through to them. 

Also, the only word they now know is "kill". Everything translates to it.


/s

On Jan 12, 2017 2:00 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

I think I will invent a skin thickener.  Or did the Marine Corps already do 
that?

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

im going to issue fatwas over the coming year. prepare yourselves. It is an 
outrage that my fatwas are considered any less valid than islamic leaders 
fatwas. You will all obey and abide. so let it be written, so let it be done 


in all seriousness though, the climate is such at this point it would simply be 
best that no one does anything, ever, under any circumstances. Look at the 
black caucus fist fight brewing with the republicans over the painting 
depicting cops as pigs, if that allowed to stay up then they should also 
require a painting depicting blacks as apes, women as servants, gays as 
perverted clowns, or whatever vile depiction of whatever subgroup you want to 
target. We should bulldoze everything into a single global flat surface around 
the planet, so no one has any more height than any other

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be politically 
incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good though… more 
science is always good! 


From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

>From the news:

Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house Wednesday at 
Vista Elementary School.

The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students to 
think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around them, 
according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.









Gino Villarini

President  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 








-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Josh Reynolds]

The Marines invented a forehead thickener. Great for bouncing bullets, but
harder to get through to them.

Also, the only word they now know is "kill". Everything translates to it.


/s

On Jan 12, 2017 2:00 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I think I will invent a skin thickener.  Or did the Marine Corps already
> do that?
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:58 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> im going to issue fatwas over the coming year. prepare yourselves. It is
> an outrage that my fatwas are considered any less valid than islamic
> leaders fatwas. You will all obey and abide. so let it be written, so let
> it be done
>
>
> in all seriousness though, the climate is such at this point it would
> simply be best that no one does anything, ever, under any circumstances.
> Look at the black caucus fist fight brewing with the republicans over the
> painting depicting cops as pigs, if that allowed to stay up then they
> should also require a painting depicting blacks as apes, women as servants,
> gays as perverted clowns, or whatever vile depiction of whatever subgroup
> you want to target. We should bulldoze everything into a single global flat
> surface around the planet, so no one has any more height than any other
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> *Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!*
>>
>> *From:* Gino Villarini
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>>
>> The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be
>> politically incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good
>> though… more science is always good!
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown <
>> ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>>
>> From the news:
>>
>>  Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house
>> Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.
>>
>> The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students
>> to think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around
>> them, according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

[AFMUG] Rise

[Chuck McCown]

Note the Dish/Direct bundle at the bottom.  I wonder if all WISPs or ISPs can 
do a deal with Dish and Direct?
I know I used to sell Direct as part of the NCTA plan, but they did away with 
that.  Anyone do bundles?

From: Rise Broadband 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:02 PM
To: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Subject: Hey MCCOWN,CHUCK, speaking of resolutions

  To view this email as a web page, go here. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Dear MCCOWN,CHUCK, 
  
We have made significant improvements to our 
internet service in your area. You now have faster internet speeds a vailable. 
Faster speeds to SURF longer, STREAM faster, and GAME all night long.  

Upgrade your Rise Broadband Internet speed 
package now and lock in your rate of $39.95/month for 2 years and we'll send 
you a $100 Visa® Gift Card.  
 
 
 
 
 
Call 866-326-2161 

 Don't wait, offer ends 1/31/17
 

Did you know...Rise Broadband is also an 
Authorized Dealer for DISH and DIRECTV? We not only provide High Speed Internet 
and Home Phone service, you now have a choice on your TV too.  

Ask about how you can add DISH or DIRECTV to 
your Rise Broadband Internet service, and bundle for even more savings!  
  
Go Paperless 
Go green and save with electronic billing. 
Ask for paperless 
   
Refer a Friend
Earn $100 by referring a friend, family member 
or neighbor.
Learn More 
   
Quick Links
My Account
Live Chat
Terms of Service 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Customer Care
Monday - Friday: 6 am to 8 pm (MT)
Saturday & Sunday: 7 am to 5 pm (MT)
866-988-7164
  
 
Technical Support
Monday - Friday: 5 am to Midnight (MT)
Saturday & Sunday: 7 am to 8 pm (MT)
866-988-7163
  
 
 
 

Legal Policies|   Privacy Policy   |   My 
Account   |Live Chat 

Unsubscribe|View this email in your 
browser 

Rise Broadband - 619 SW 14th Loveland, CO 80537
Pay Online! It’s secure, fast and convenient. 
Mailing in your payment? Send to PO Box 844580, 
Boston, MA 02284-4580  
 

*With successful activation. Limited-time 
offer. May not be combined with other offers. Fastest speed available at your 
home. $39.95/mo. with a 2-year Rise Broadband Internet service agreement. Add 
digital phone for $10.00 per month and get free installation. Additional fees 
will apply. As a designed telecommunications carrier eligible to receive 
universal service support, Rise Broadband, is proud to offer the Lifeline 
program in the state of Kansas. We will provide discounts off on service 
activation and on basic monthly service for residential customers who qualify 
for income-assisted programs. To determine if you quality for Kansas Lifeline 
service, customers may call 1-800-527-2404. For unresolved questions or 
complaints you may contact the Kansas Corporation Commission, Office of Public 
Affairs and Consumer Protection, at KCC Consumer Protection, 1500 SW Arrowhead 
Road, Topeka, KS 66604 or toll-free 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Chuck McCown]

I think I will invent a skin thickener.  Or did the Marine Corps already do 
that?

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

im going to issue fatwas over the coming year. prepare yourselves. It is an 
outrage that my fatwas are considered any less valid than islamic leaders 
fatwas. You will all obey and abide. so let it be written, so let it be done 


in all seriousness though, the climate is such at this point it would simply be 
best that no one does anything, ever, under any circumstances. Look at the 
black caucus fist fight brewing with the republicans over the painting 
depicting cops as pigs, if that allowed to stay up then they should also 
require a painting depicting blacks as apes, women as servants, gays as 
perverted clowns, or whatever vile depiction of whatever subgroup you want to 
target. We should bulldoze everything into a single global flat surface around 
the planet, so no one has any more height than any other

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!

  From: Gino Villarini 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

  The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be politically 
incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good though… more 
science is always good! 

  From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
  Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse


  From the news:
   Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house Wednesday 
at Vista Elementary School.

  The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students to 
think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around them, 
according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.




Gino Villarini
   
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 







-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

im going to issue fatwas over the coming year. prepare yourselves. It is an
outrage that my fatwas are considered any less valid than islamic leaders
fatwas. You will all obey and abide. so let it be written, so let it be done


in all seriousness though, the climate is such at this point it would
simply be best that no one does anything, ever, under any circumstances.
Look at the black caucus fist fight brewing with the republicans over the
painting depicting cops as pigs, if that allowed to stay up then they
should also require a painting depicting blacks as apes, women as servants,
gays as perverted clowns, or whatever vile depiction of whatever subgroup
you want to target. We should bulldoze everything into a single global flat
surface around the planet, so no one has any more height than any other

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> *Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!*
>
> *From:* Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be
> politically incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good
> though… more science is always good!
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown  >
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> From the news:
>
>  Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house
> Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.
>
> The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students
> to think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around
> them, according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Nate Burke]

It seems like more and more around here the Grain legs are owned by 
someone who dosen't live there anymore.  The farmer has found that 
living in a condo and having someone else cut the grass and shovel the 
snow is much easier, they just rent out the house.  Sometimes it's held 
in a Trust, and everything is handled by a lawyer.  The Renters at the 
locations we've encountered are very shaky about giving out the owners 
contact information, because the farmer might kick them out of the house.


Find the oldest farmer in the area that you know.  They probably know 
who owns everything.  If you can find a farmer (or their significant 
other) that is also a realtor, that's even better.


On 1/12/2017 1:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I would hazard to guess that almost all the 1%ers are over 50...
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:43 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
I don't know anyone under 50 that's a member of any of the clubs you 
just listed.

On Jan 12, 2017 1:39 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

More work.  Need a personal introduction for best effect so that
takes lotsa homework. Lions, Optimist, Rotary, Elks, Eagles,
Churches etc etc.  Everything insurance and real estate agents do
to networking will be needed to get to the personal introduction.
*From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:36 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward
getting an appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial
contact. Door knocking is preferred to me personally, but if they
have a no soliciting sign, thats a good way to get a sour taste.
But an in person initial meeting is ideal, I have a maximum
initial offering I can make, but im cheap so I can get the
expectation on incentive set low enough that a final negotiation
will let them walk away with more than initially offered, likely
still being less than im authorized to offer on initial contact.
that is all going to be defined by the taste in the mouth.
On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Go talk to the person in the nearest house.
Used to be that the power company would give you contact info
based on the meter number. Probably not any more, but maybe
with a little social engineering.
Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
Farm equipment dealers know everyone.
*From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to
solidify our footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when
possible to go on privately owned grain legs, with a secondary
preference to grain elevators and little interest in tower
access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the
farmers will be there and sign our exploratory contract,
basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for full
site inspections.
The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody
home or there wont be a residence on the property, so making
contact will be problematic. Plat maps will get us the
property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an
unexpected telephone contact will set a negative tone for the
relationship.
I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or
something of that sort. The goal being a format high in
probability for return contact and low in probability for
being perceived as a nuisance.
Any sage advice?
-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part
of the team.



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see

your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
the team.

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Josh Reynolds]

(I'm saying you're right in terms of billionaires)

On Jan 12, 2017 1:46 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I would hazard to guess that almost all the 1%ers are over 50...
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
> I don't know anyone under 50 that's a member of any of the clubs you just
> listed.
>
> On Jan 12, 2017 1:39 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> More work.  Need a personal introduction for best effect so that takes
>> lotsa homework.  Lions, Optimist, Rotary, Elks, Eagles, Churches etc etc.
>> Everything insurance and real estate agents do to networking will be needed
>> to get to the personal introduction.
>>
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>>
>> we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward getting
>> an appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial contact. Door
>> knocking is preferred to me personally, but if they have a no soliciting
>> sign, thats a good way to get a sour taste. But an in person initial
>> meeting is ideal, I have a maximum initial offering I can make, but im
>> cheap so I can get the expectation on incentive set low enough that a final
>> negotiation will let them walk away with more than initially offered,
>> likely still being less than im authorized to offer on initial contact.
>> that is all going to be defined by the taste in the mouth.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Go talk to the person in the nearest house.
>>>
>>> Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on
>>> the meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social
>>> engineering.
>>>
>>> Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
>>> Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
>>> The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
>>> Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
>>> Farm equipment dealers know everyone.
>>>
>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>>>
>>> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
>>> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
>>> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
>>> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
>>> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
>>> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
>>> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>>>
>>> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
>>> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
>>> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
>>> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
>>> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
>>> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
>>> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
>>> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>>>
>>> Any sage advice?
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Josh Reynolds]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2013/03/04/the-worlds-youngest-billionaires-23-under-40/#261f87b750a2

On Jan 12, 2017 1:46 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I would hazard to guess that almost all the 1%ers are over 50...
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
> I don't know anyone under 50 that's a member of any of the clubs you just
> listed.
>
> On Jan 12, 2017 1:39 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> More work.  Need a personal introduction for best effect so that takes
>> lotsa homework.  Lions, Optimist, Rotary, Elks, Eagles, Churches etc etc.
>> Everything insurance and real estate agents do to networking will be needed
>> to get to the personal introduction.
>>
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>>
>> we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward getting
>> an appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial contact. Door
>> knocking is preferred to me personally, but if they have a no soliciting
>> sign, thats a good way to get a sour taste. But an in person initial
>> meeting is ideal, I have a maximum initial offering I can make, but im
>> cheap so I can get the expectation on incentive set low enough that a final
>> negotiation will let them walk away with more than initially offered,
>> likely still being less than im authorized to offer on initial contact.
>> that is all going to be defined by the taste in the mouth.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Go talk to the person in the nearest house.
>>>
>>> Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on
>>> the meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social
>>> engineering.
>>>
>>> Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
>>> Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
>>> The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
>>> Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
>>> Farm equipment dealers know everyone.
>>>
>>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>>>
>>> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
>>> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
>>> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
>>> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
>>> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
>>> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
>>> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>>>
>>> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
>>> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
>>> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
>>> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
>>> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
>>> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
>>> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
>>> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>>>
>>> Any sage advice?
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Chuck McCown]

I would hazard to guess that almost all the 1%ers are over 50...

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

I don't know anyone under 50 that's a member of any of the clubs you just 
listed.

On Jan 12, 2017 1:39 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  More work.  Need a personal introduction for best effect so that takes lotsa 
homework.  Lions, Optimist, Rotary, Elks, Eagles, Churches etc etc.  Everything 
insurance and real estate agents do to networking will be needed to get to the 
personal introduction.  


  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:36 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

  we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward getting an 
appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial contact. Door knocking is 
preferred to me personally, but if they have a no soliciting sign, thats a good 
way to get a sour taste. But an in person initial meeting is ideal, I have a 
maximum initial offering I can make, but im cheap so I can get the expectation 
on incentive set low enough that a final negotiation will let them walk away 
with more than initially offered, likely still being less than im authorized to 
offer on initial contact. that is all going to be defined by the taste in the 
mouth.

  On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Go talk to the person in the nearest house.

Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering.  

Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.  
The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.  
Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
Farm equipment dealers know everyone.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our 
footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately 
owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little 
interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual 
affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there 
and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and 
authorizing access for full site inspections. 

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there 
wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. 
Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, 
postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected 
telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of 
that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and 
low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.

Any sage advice?


-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.




  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Josh Reynolds]

I don't know anyone under 50 that's a member of any of the clubs you just
listed.

On Jan 12, 2017 1:39 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> More work.  Need a personal introduction for best effect so that takes
> lotsa homework.  Lions, Optimist, Rotary, Elks, Eagles, Churches etc etc.
> Everything insurance and real estate agents do to networking will be needed
> to get to the personal introduction.
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
> we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward getting
> an appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial contact. Door
> knocking is preferred to me personally, but if they have a no soliciting
> sign, thats a good way to get a sour taste. But an in person initial
> meeting is ideal, I have a maximum initial offering I can make, but im
> cheap so I can get the expectation on incentive set low enough that a final
> negotiation will let them walk away with more than initially offered,
> likely still being less than im authorized to offer on initial contact.
> that is all going to be defined by the taste in the mouth.
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Go talk to the person in the nearest house.
>>
>> Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on
>> the meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social
>> engineering.
>>
>> Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
>> Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
>> The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
>> Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
>> Farm equipment dealers know everyone.
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>>
>> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
>> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
>> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
>> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
>> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
>> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
>> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>>
>> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
>> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
>> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
>> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
>> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
>> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
>> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
>> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>>
>> Any sage advice?
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Chuck McCown]

More work.  Need a personal introduction for best effect so that takes lotsa 
homework.  Lions, Optimist, Rotary, Elks, Eagles, Churches etc etc.  Everything 
insurance and real estate agents do to networking will be needed to get to the 
personal introduction.  


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward getting an 
appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial contact. Door knocking is 
preferred to me personally, but if they have a no soliciting sign, thats a good 
way to get a sour taste. But an in person initial meeting is ideal, I have a 
maximum initial offering I can make, but im cheap so I can get the expectation 
on incentive set low enough that a final negotiation will let them walk away 
with more than initially offered, likely still being less than im authorized to 
offer on initial contact. that is all going to be defined by the taste in the 
mouth.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Go talk to the person in the nearest house.

  Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering.  

  Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
  Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.  
  The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.  
  Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
  Farm equipment dealers know everyone.  

  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

  We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections. 

  The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
  I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance.

  Any sage advice?


  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.




-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

we can usually locate the property owner. Im looking more toward getting an
appealing first taste in their mouth on the initial contact. Door knocking
is preferred to me personally, but if they have a no soliciting sign, thats
a good way to get a sour taste. But an in person initial meeting is ideal,
I have a maximum initial offering I can make, but im cheap so I can get the
expectation on incentive set low enough that a final negotiation will let
them walk away with more than initially offered, likely still being less
than im authorized to offer on initial contact. that is all going to be
defined by the taste in the mouth.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Go talk to the person in the nearest house.
>
> Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the
> meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social
> engineering.
>
> Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
> Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
> The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
> Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
> Farm equipment dealers know everyone.
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>
> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>
> Any sage advice?
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Chris Fabien]

Go talk to the counter guys at the local grain elevator, feed store,
fertilizer dealer, tractor dealer, etc. You'll probably find someone who
can give you the owners cell phone number pretty quick and then you can
call and drop their name "Hey bill, I got your number from Joe down at the
fertilizer plant"

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:19 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>
> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>
> Any sage advice?
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Josh Luthman]

Are you just looking to talk to who runs the grain elevator?

Grab the address, go to the county auditor (website), get their name and
you can usually find their home number that way.  If you need their cell
I'd do what Chuck said, talk to the neighbors.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Go talk to the person in the nearest house.
>
> Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the
> meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social
> engineering.
>
> Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
> Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.
> The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.
> Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
> Farm equipment dealers know everyone.
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact
>
> We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
> footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
> owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
> interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
> affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
> there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
> authorizing access for full site inspections.
>
> The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
> wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
> Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
> postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
> telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
> I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
> that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
> and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.
>
> Any sage advice?
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah Mr. White! You really do have a plan! Yeah science!

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be politically 
incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good though… more 
science is always good! 

From: Af  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse


>From the news:
 Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house Wednesday 
at Vista Elementary School.

The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students to 
think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around them, 
according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.



  Gino Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Josh Baird]

Yep - for sure.  What kind of dishes are you using?  Distance?  Throughput?

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Yes, but 80 mhz is not always available, I would do a preliminary
> investigation before moving on
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
> joshba...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 3:20 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>
> Need to adjust the license anyways if we are changing out equipment.
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>
>> Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz
>> channel
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
>> joshba...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>>
>> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do
>> 228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that,
>> right?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters
>>> (AF11x is N)
>>>
>>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity
>>>  difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you
>>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>>>
>>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
>>> joshba...@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>>>
>>> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>>>
>>> Somewhat un-related question:
>>>
>>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:
>>>
>>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR
>>> 1=237127=0
>>>
>>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need
>>> adapters?
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino Villarini*
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe
 been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit
 has been rock solid.



 We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port!



 This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some
 intermitent throughtput issues,



 The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add
 the af11x adapters to it,



 The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced
 some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went
 away.



 For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x
 and af18x



 *Gino Villarini*
 President
 Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968


>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Gino Villarini]

The only  thing out of place is its name, I think is meant to be politically 
incorrect… Atheist do not believe in satan… the mission is good though… more 
science is always good!

From: Af > on behalf of Chuck 
McCown >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:29 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

From the news:

 Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house Wednesday 
at Vista Elementary School.

The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students to 
think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around them, 
according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Gino Villarini]

Yes, but 80 mhz is not always available, I would do a preliminary investigation 
before moving on

From: Af > on behalf of Josh 
Baird >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 3:20 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

Need to adjust the license anyways if we are changing out equipment.




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz 
channel

From: Af > on behalf of Josh 
Baird >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right?




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
is N)

What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity  difference 
between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you have a xpic 
license you can double your throughput with the af11x

From: Af > on behalf of Josh 
Baird >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

Good news - thanks for sharing.

Somewhat un-related question:

I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:

http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0

Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need adapters?

Josh




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:

Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta 
testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock 
solid.



We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port!



This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
throughtput issues,



The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
af11x adapters to it,



The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away.



For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
af18x



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[Chuck McCown]

Go talk to the person in the nearest house.

Used to be that the power company would give you contact info based on the 
meter number.  Probably not any more, but maybe with a little social 
engineering.  

Tax assessor, county recorder, sheriff.
Elevators normally toss some pesticides in with the grain.  
The local pesticide dealer may hook you up.  
Fertilizer dealers know everyone.
Farm equipment dealers know everyone.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our footprint 
prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately owned grain 
legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little interest in 
tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual affirmation of 
viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be there and sign our 
exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and authorizing access for 
full site inspections. 

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there wont 
be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic. Plat 
maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue, postal 
contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected telephone 
contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of that 
sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact and low in 
probability for being perceived as a nuisance.

Any sage advice?


-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] 450m

[Dave]

yeah sorry my S4 is crap LOL


On 01/12/2017 01:18 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Wow, blurry AF

From: Af > on 
behalf of David Milholen >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com " >

Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:36 PM
To: "af@afmug.com " >

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 450m

Ok,
 Here are some pics and yes to everything but the trip part because i 
have not tested that yet.



*//*

*/Gino Villarini/*

President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

On 01/11/2017 11:35 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Comparison to CTM2 might be apples to oranges, since it doesn�t 
support �CambiumSYNC� and probably can�t power a 450m.


On price, another comparison would be the new modular Packetflux 
SyncInjector just coming out, although the first version will not 
have CambiumSYNC.


Lacking a spec sheet or a user guide, I wonder about some features we 
get with CTM2 or SyncInjector:


- can you remotely enable/disable power and sync to each port?

- does it monitor current or power consumption per port?

- does it have remotely resettable fuses per port?

I know that after a storm, sometimes we have ports in a TRIP state 
from overcurrent, but reset the electronic fuse and it comes back to 
life.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *David Milholen
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2017 8:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450m

Negative,

Notice the green ports in the front for making your direct 
connections to a DC source.


This design works well for us since all of our sites now have a 29v 
and 48v supply system.


When we add one of these to an older site for upgrade we will leave 
the cmm4 for the 29v gear


and install the cmm5 for the newer 450i/m gear. As we swap out older 
450 gear to 450i or M we will


just add more controller modules. Which is much less than paying 
another 1800+ for a whole cmm4 or ctm2


I have one site that has 3 cmm4 and the 3rd is only using one port.

Keep in mind the idea is to move to more capacity at your own pace 
without going back every 6months to upgrade.


All ports are gige with built in surge on each port. The CTM2 or the 
Cmm4 has never failed me on protection.


On 1/10/2017 5:16 PM, Brian Sullivan wrote:

Is that it's power supply hanging off of the back?

On 1/10/2017 5:14 PM, Dave wrote:

Thats all there is that I could find or get at this time. I
am sure more to follow.

On 01/10/2017 12:14 PM, Brian Sullivan wrote:

Through online chat I asked Cambium the other day for a
spec sheet.  All they gave me was the quick start guide.
Attached.

On 1/10/2017 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I sent the gang out to look for any Cambium
documentation on the CMM5.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:28 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 450m

All Ethernet gear has to have some surge protection
built in or it will not pass certain specs.

But you need replicable/expendable  robust external
surge suppressors as the first line of defense.

If the surge suppressor is designed properly it will
not degrade performance.

*From:*Ken Hohhof

*Sent:*Tuesday, January 10, 2017 9:05 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] 450m

Looks like a stealth product.  Maybe WikiLeaks can
get us a spec sheet.  David, can you post a photo of
your setup?

It looks like around $1000 street price for 4 ports,
plus a separate controller, plus a UGPS?  Wowzers. 
Compare to CTM2 from LMG which is 8 ports with

integral controller.

Can you get 2 of the 4-port modules, or 1 module and
a controller, in 1U rackmount?  Are you using the
controller?  Does it exist yet?

You mention surge protection, does that mean it has
integral surge protection like the CTM2?  Downside
would be frying a whole $1000 unit if it takes a hit.
If you still use a separate surge protector, like
maybe Chuck�s APC shelf modules, does the double
surge protector degrade Ethernet performance?

The compatibility chart show it can work with 56V APs
like 450i/450m, as well as 29V APs like 450.  I�m
assuming it�s 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Josh Baird]

Need to adjust the license anyways if we are changing out equipment.

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz
> channel
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
> joshba...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>
> This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do
> 228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that,
> right?
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters
>> (AF11x is N)
>>
>> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity
>>  difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you
>> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
>> joshba...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>>
>> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Somewhat un-related question:
>>
>> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:
>>
>> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-
>> RR1=237127=0
>>
>> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need
>> adapters?
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe
>>> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit
>>> has been rock solid.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some
>>> intermitent throughtput issues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add
>>> the af11x adapters to it,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced
>>> some lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went
>>> away.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x
>>> and af18x
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino Villarini*
>>> President
>>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>>
>>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] site acquisition initial contact

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

We are going to be doing some acquisition this year to solidify our
footprint prior to an expansion. We prefer when possible to go on privately
owned grain legs, with a secondary preference to grain elevators and little
interest in tower access. When I go out to the target areas to get visual
affirmation of viable locations, in my perfect world, the farmers will be
there and sign our exploratory contract, basically setting rough terms and
authorizing access for full site inspections.

The issue is that 9 times out of ten there wont be anybody home or there
wont be a residence on the property, so making contact will be problematic.
Plat maps will get us the property owner, but the contact will be an issue,
postal contact will just get tossed in the trash. Around here an unexpected
telephone contact will set a negative tone for the relationship.
I was thinking about a door hanger with a business card, or something of
that sort. The goal being a format high in probability for return contact
and low in probability for being perceived as a nuisance.

Any sage advice?

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450 QOS for Voip

[Ken Hohhof]

The AP/SM are not setting DSCP, they are reacting to it.  A lot of VoIP 
equipment defaults to DSCP=46.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 1:13 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450 QOS for Voip

 

I would always turn VoIP up to 11 on the dial.  I doubt 46 vs 56 is really 
going to do much, but I would rather have Voip quality take priority over 
network control if there ever became a conflict.  

 

Odd, I thought Flash Override was the highest.

 

From: Sam Kirsch 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:10 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450 QOS for Voip

 

I've also always wondered what the strongest VoIP QoS settings were on the 
Cambium equipment.  I've been setting Codepoint 46 to 5 on the APs and SMs and 
setting Diffserv first as well in some areas where we can have lots of VoIP 
issues (old PMP100 900mhz APs, for example).

 

According to all the documentation I can find that's the correct/most 
standardized way of setting this for VoIP in a WAN environment, but I always 
thought it was odd that Cambium stuff came defaulted with half of the items set 
to 0 and the other to 4 and 802.1p > DiffServ, instead of following the 
recommended Cisco chart and various advice one can find on the internet;

 


DSCP Name

DS Field Value (Dec)

IP Precedence (Description)


CS0

0

0 : Best Effort


CS1,AF11-13

8,10,12,14

1 :Priority


CS2,AF21-23

16,18,20,22

2 :Immediate


CS3,AF31-33

24,26,28,30

3 :Flash - mainly used for voice signaling


CS4,AF41-43

32,34,36,38

4 :Flash Override


CS5,EF

40,46

5 :Critical - mainly used for voice RTP


CS6

48

6 :Internetwork Control


CS7

56

7 :Network Control

 

 

I always assume that the more I'm changing the more likely I am doing something 
wrong =D  I'd like some clarification on this as well!

 

Regards,

 

 

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |   www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688

Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Andreas Wiatowski" 

To: "af@afmug.com" 

Sent: 1/12/2017 11:46:40 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450 QOS for Voip

 

Yes…this is what we do… my concern has been “TELLING THE AP” that this traffic 
has precedence over any other types of traffic “JUST IN CASE” the AP is taxed 
in terms of available airtime / bandwidth.  

 

So based on this I would have to set the Codepoint 46 to priority 7 on the AP 
Diffserve TAB 

SM turn on High priority then set the SM  DIFFSERV Tab Codepoint 46 to priority 
7 and set DIFFSERV first over 802.1p

 

Cheers,

__

Andreas Wiatowski | CEO

Silo Wireless Inc.

Email  andr...@silowireless.com

19 Sage Court

Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)

Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free 
+1.866.727.4138

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450 QOS for Voip

 

Then I assume the PBX is already setting DSCP on the traffic to the customer, 
and if they have ATAs or IP phones, those probably also set DSCP.

 

I would not set all traffic from this customer to high priority in the QoS 
router, just the VoIP traffic.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Wiatowski
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450 QOS for Voip

 

We run our own PBX server and bring trunks to it. The traffic flow comes via 
our PBX… It is on our network and not outsourced.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Cheers,

__

Andreas Wiatowski | CEO

Silo Wireless Inc.

Email  andr...@silowireless.com

19 Sage Court

Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA)

Tel +1.519.449.5656  Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free 
+1.866.727.4138

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450 QOS for Voip

 

Yes, you should enable High Priority channel and assign an appropriate amount 
of bandwidth, e.g. 100 kbps times number of simultaneous calls, depending on 
what codec their VoIP is using.  This allocation is only used if needed, it’s 
not like some QoS routers which set aside bandwidth only for use by high 
priority traffic.

 

Most VoIP devices should tag the packets as EF without needing a QoS router to 
do it.

 

Where you tag the downstream traffic depends on where it is coming from.  Do 
you have your own PBX?  Does it come over a SIP trunk?  Does the RTP traffic 
flow via your PBX or come direct from the underlying CLEC?  I think this 
depends on whether you  enable re-invites?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Wiatowski
Sent: 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Gino Villarini]

Up to 56 mhz 1024 qam, but you’ll need to adjust your loicnese for 80 mhz 
channel

From: Af > on behalf of Josh 
Baird >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:47 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do 
228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that, right?




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters (AF11x 
is N)

What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity  difference 
between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you have a xpic 
license you can double your throughput with the af11x

From: Af > on behalf of Josh 
Baird >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

Good news - thanks for sharing.

Somewhat un-related question:

I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:

http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-11W-RR1=237127=0

Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need adapters?

Josh




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:

Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe been beta 
testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit has been rock 
solid.



We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port!



This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent 
throughtput issues,



The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add the 
af11x adapters to it,



The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some 
lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away.



For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x and 
af18x



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

[AFMUG] OT Inside towers

[Chuck McCown]

Just got a piece of directed spam offering to feature my company in Inside 
Towers.
I don’t recall seeing this ezine before.  

$250 a year.  Anyone see this rag?  Anyone actually read it?

Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

[Adam Moffett]

I'd love to get a pneumatic one with outriggers, but it's so damn 
spendy.


Poor man's version is 
http://www.tiltnraise.com/purchase/order-page/2-inch-tilt-over-antenna-mount/. 
 Add your own mast with 2" OD at the bottom.




-- Original Message --
From: "Jeremy" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/12/2017 1:30:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole


Also, http://www.hilomast.com/masts/mast-accessories/reese-hitch-mount/

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Jeremy  
wrote:
Quick Google search finds this 
http://www.larsonelectronics.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=145898=CNy_yaKevdECFQUEaQodtWwKuw


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:

Maybe that is what it takes to read the meters in the area.

From:Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:58 AM
To:Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

See attached Pic.  Our power company has this pickup truck with a 
gigantic mast on the rear end.  I assume they're testing their smart 
meter junk with itor something.


My question is where can I get one of those?!
I'm definitely jealous of their survey pole size.

Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

[Jeremy]

Also, http://www.hilomast.com/masts/mast-accessories/reese-hitch-mount/

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

> Quick Google search finds this http://www.larsonelectronics.com/
> showproduct.aspx?productid=145898=CNy_yaKevdECFQUEaQodtWwKuw
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Maybe that is what it takes to read the meters in the area.
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:58 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole
>>
>> See attached Pic.  Our power company has this pickup truck with a
>> gigantic mast on the rear end.  I assume they're testing their smart meter
>> junk with itor something.
>>
>> My question is where can I get one of those?!
>> I'm definitely jealous of their survey pole size.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

[Jeremy]

Quick Google search finds this
http://www.larsonelectronics.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=145898=CNy_yaKevdECFQUEaQodtWwKuw

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Maybe that is what it takes to read the meters in the area.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:58 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole
>
> See attached Pic.  Our power company has this pickup truck with a gigantic
> mast on the rear end.  I assume they're testing their smart meter junk with
> itor something.
>
> My question is where can I get one of those?!
> I'm definitely jealous of their survey pole size.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Ken Hohhof]

CAF is just a new mission for the same money, it is paid for with USF 
“contributions”.  More like same beast, two different heads.

https://www.fcc.gov/general/connect-america-fund-caf

 

Similarly, the Wheeler FCC decided to expand Lifeline phone subsidies to also 
cover broadband (ignoring that $9 doesn’t buy much of a phone+data bundle).  
But it comes from the Universal Service (slush) Fund.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 12:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Yes CAF.

CAF is not USF.  Two totally different beasts.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:14 AM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

http://www.telecompetitor.com/massachusetts-joins-effort-urging-the-fcc-to-release-connect-america-funding-to-states/

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Some states have a state USF and it is handled differently, sometimes with 
strings attached.  I don’t think telcos turn down federal USF.  

 

Some do turn down CAF and some states want CAF.  CAF is tax dollar based.  And 
CAF is not related to divestiture.  It is an invention of the Obama 
administration.  

 

CAF != USF by any stretch.  

 

And there is a push in all states to make ISPs fund the USF right along with 
cell phone carriers and everyone else.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:46 AM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

But now you see states (I think Massachusetts is the latest) want to receive 
the USF money their telcos have turned down.  Why is there no sunset on this 
“fee”?  I think USF “contributions” have doubled in recent years?  Why not just 
let the percentage go back down, if the telcos don’t want the money.

 

I think because of not calling it a tax, even though it walks and quacks like a 
tax.  If it was called a tax, the public and all fiscal conservative 
legislators would be all over it, to have it reduced or eliminated.

 

It’s like the March of Dimes, we need to reinvent ourselves, polio was 
eliminated, but we still have all these dimes coming in!

 

Plus I take issue with your historical analysis, nothing about LD revenue and 
breaking up the Bell System justifies the repurposing of this money to the 
“Connect America Fund”.

 

Let’s face it, POTS is a relic, and the concept of LD vs local calling is a 
relic.  People are switching to cellphones and that isn’t going to change.  All 
government programs need a sunset provision, where their original reason for 
existence has to be re-examined and justified anew.

 

The real day of reckoning will come when the “contribution base” from 
interstate voice no longer funds CAF, and they want to make ISPs start 
contributing on their broadband revenue.  You’re internet bill now has a new 
17% fee!  Will these unelected agencies be able to say nothing to see here, 
it’s just a fee, move along?  Or will Congress have to authorize it?  And if 
so, will they have to treat it as a tax and therefore the third rail especially 
with Republicans controlling both houses of Congress and a Republican? In the 
White House?  Not sure what DJT would think of it.  Populists traditionally 
favor bread and circuses, and don’t worry as much about deficit spending as 
Republicans supposedly do.  New taxes would still seem counterintuitive.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

No, it is a replacement for revenue previously obtained from AT on line-haul 
agreements.  As a consideration for the divestiture and forcing AT to allow 
others to enter the long distance arena, the revenue previously shared with the 
smaller non AT companies was diverted to the National Exchange Carriers 
Association, NECA for distribution in a socialist manner.  

 

And everyone’s long distance bills went way way down.   Then when the 96 act 
happened and CLECS were allowed to enter the local exchange market similar how 
the LD companies were allowed after divestiture, USAC was invented to move some 
of the local exchange tariff revenue into another pool to replace money that 
local exchange carriers would lose when CLECs stole their customers.  

 

So, LD revenue and local revenue were moved to pools to allow competition.  
NECA administers one pool of revenue, USAC the other.  Neither is the 
government.  And contributions are non compulsory on the customers however most 
pass the fees along, however some do not.  NECA and USAC are simply two not for 
profit companies that have been designated by the FCC to distribute the dole.  

 

I remember when a phone call to 

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Chuck McCown]

Yes CAF.
CAF is not USF.  Two totally different beasts.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

http://www.telecompetitor.com/massachusetts-joins-effort-urging-the-fcc-to-release-connect-america-funding-to-states/

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Some states have a state USF and it is handled differently, sometimes with 
strings attached.  I don’t think telcos turn down federal USF.  

 

Some do turn down CAF and some states want CAF.  CAF is tax dollar based.  And 
CAF is not related to divestiture.  It is an invention of the Obama 
administration.  

 

CAF != USF by any stretch.  

 

And there is a push in all states to make ISPs fund the USF right along with 
cell phone carriers and everyone else.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:46 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

But now you see states (I think Massachusetts is the latest) want to receive 
the USF money their telcos have turned down.  Why is there no sunset on this 
“fee”?  I think USF “contributions” have doubled in recent years?  Why not just 
let the percentage go back down, if the telcos don’t want the money.

 

I think because of not calling it a tax, even though it walks and quacks like a 
tax.  If it was called a tax, the public and all fiscal conservative 
legislators would be all over it, to have it reduced or eliminated.

 

It’s like the March of Dimes, we need to reinvent ourselves, polio was 
eliminated, but we still have all these dimes coming in!

 

Plus I take issue with your historical analysis, nothing about LD revenue and 
breaking up the Bell System justifies the repurposing of this money to the 
“Connect America Fund”.

 

Let’s face it, POTS is a relic, and the concept of LD vs local calling is a 
relic.  People are switching to cellphones and that isn’t going to change.  All 
government programs need a sunset provision, where their original reason for 
existence has to be re-examined and justified anew.

 

The real day of reckoning will come when the “contribution base” from 
interstate voice no longer funds CAF, and they want to make ISPs start 
contributing on their broadband revenue.  You’re internet bill now has a new 
17% fee!  Will these unelected agencies be able to say nothing to see here, 
it’s just a fee, move along?  Or will Congress have to authorize it?  And if 
so, will they have to treat it as a tax and therefore the third rail especially 
with Republicans controlling both houses of Congress and a Republican? In the 
White House?  Not sure what DJT would think of it.  Populists traditionally 
favor bread and circuses, and don’t worry as much about deficit spending as 
Republicans supposedly do.  New taxes would still seem counterintuitive.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

No, it is a replacement for revenue previously obtained from AT on line-haul 
agreements.  As a consideration for the divestiture and forcing AT to allow 
others to enter the long distance arena, the revenue previously shared with the 
smaller non AT companies was diverted to the National Exchange Carriers 
Association, NECA for distribution in a socialist manner.  

 

And everyone’s long distance bills went way way down.   Then when the 96 act 
happened and CLECS were allowed to enter the local exchange market similar how 
the LD companies were allowed after divestiture, USAC was invented to move some 
of the local exchange tariff revenue into another pool to replace money that 
local exchange carriers would lose when CLECs stole their customers.  

 

So, LD revenue and local revenue were moved to pools to allow competition.  
NECA administers one pool of revenue, USAC the other.  Neither is the 
government.  And contributions are non compulsory on the customers however most 
pass the fees along, however some do not.  NECA and USAC are simply two not for 
profit companies that have been designated by the FCC to distribute the dole.  

 

I remember when a phone call to the next town over , 13 miles away, was 15 
cents per minute during the day.  Anyone want to go back to that?

 

You do not have to use a phone.   

You do not have to water ski at Lake Powell, so the National Park Service fee 
to enter the area is a fee, not a tax.  

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:06 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Hi,

Not to be picky about terminology, but by definition a "tax" is "a compulsory 
contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and 
business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and 
transactions."

Isn't this money collected as 

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Ken Hohhof]

http://www.telecompetitor.com/massachusetts-joins-effort-urging-the-fcc-to-release-connect-america-funding-to-states/

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Some states have a state USF and it is handled differently, sometimes with 
strings attached.  I don’t think telcos turn down federal USF.  

 

Some do turn down CAF and some states want CAF.  CAF is tax dollar based.  And 
CAF is not related to divestiture.  It is an invention of the Obama 
administration.  

 

CAF != USF by any stretch.  

 

And there is a push in all states to make ISPs fund the USF right along with 
cell phone carriers and everyone else.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:46 AM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

But now you see states (I think Massachusetts is the latest) want to receive 
the USF money their telcos have turned down.  Why is there no sunset on this 
“fee”?  I think USF “contributions” have doubled in recent years?  Why not just 
let the percentage go back down, if the telcos don’t want the money.

 

I think because of not calling it a tax, even though it walks and quacks like a 
tax.  If it was called a tax, the public and all fiscal conservative 
legislators would be all over it, to have it reduced or eliminated.

 

It’s like the March of Dimes, we need to reinvent ourselves, polio was 
eliminated, but we still have all these dimes coming in!

 

Plus I take issue with your historical analysis, nothing about LD revenue and 
breaking up the Bell System justifies the repurposing of this money to the 
“Connect America Fund”.

 

Let’s face it, POTS is a relic, and the concept of LD vs local calling is a 
relic.  People are switching to cellphones and that isn’t going to change.  All 
government programs need a sunset provision, where their original reason for 
existence has to be re-examined and justified anew.

 

The real day of reckoning will come when the “contribution base” from 
interstate voice no longer funds CAF, and they want to make ISPs start 
contributing on their broadband revenue.  You’re internet bill now has a new 
17% fee!  Will these unelected agencies be able to say nothing to see here, 
it’s just a fee, move along?  Or will Congress have to authorize it?  And if 
so, will they have to treat it as a tax and therefore the third rail especially 
with Republicans controlling both houses of Congress and a Republican? In the 
White House?  Not sure what DJT would think of it.  Populists traditionally 
favor bread and circuses, and don’t worry as much about deficit spending as 
Republicans supposedly do.  New taxes would still seem counterintuitive.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

No, it is a replacement for revenue previously obtained from AT on line-haul 
agreements.  As a consideration for the divestiture and forcing AT to allow 
others to enter the long distance arena, the revenue previously shared with the 
smaller non AT companies was diverted to the National Exchange Carriers 
Association, NECA for distribution in a socialist manner.  

 

And everyone’s long distance bills went way way down.   Then when the 96 act 
happened and CLECS were allowed to enter the local exchange market similar how 
the LD companies were allowed after divestiture, USAC was invented to move some 
of the local exchange tariff revenue into another pool to replace money that 
local exchange carriers would lose when CLECs stole their customers.  

 

So, LD revenue and local revenue were moved to pools to allow competition.  
NECA administers one pool of revenue, USAC the other.  Neither is the 
government.  And contributions are non compulsory on the customers however most 
pass the fees along, however some do not.  NECA and USAC are simply two not for 
profit companies that have been designated by the FCC to distribute the dole.  

 

I remember when a phone call to the next town over , 13 miles away, was 15 
cents per minute during the day.  Anyone want to go back to that?

 

You do not have to use a phone.   

You do not have to water ski at Lake Powell, so the National Park Service fee 
to enter the area is a fee, not a tax.  

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:06 AM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Hi,

Not to be picky about terminology, but by definition a "tax" is "a compulsory 
contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and 
business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and 
transactions."

Isn't this money collected as USF and other "fees" on telephone bills? And 
these are fees that I can NOT remove from my phone bill, 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Chuck McCown]

1.  As previously discussed, the 10 commandments is the basis for most western 
legal doctrine.  I don’t think it is out of place in a venue where laws are 
made or adjudicated any more than a statue of Salk is appropriate at the NIH 
building.  

2.  If you are going to allow displays religious or otherwise, you gotta let 
everyone do it space permitting.
3.  Ditto.  If it turns into a circus, either stop doing invocations or limit 
them to 30 seconds.  

From: Zach Underwood 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

The Satan church would rather see more separation of church and state but since 
they can't remove the "Good New clubs" they set up their own clubs in hopes 
that school staff/parents would freak out and remove all clubs with a religious 
bent(like Boys Scouts "Good New clubs") 


There are people in the atheist community that call the Church of Satan trolls 
or  dinner theater atheist. 
Some examples of the Church of Satan.
1. saying if the 10 commandments was not removed from the Oklahoma that they 
was going to build a nine-foot statue of Baphomet right next to it.
2. placing displays next to nativity scene on gov't lands.
3. giving invocations at meetings where there have been christian invocations 
in the past.



On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Like to see if they attract any members.  

  Seems like there are two kinds of ‘Mericans

  1)The constitution says guvmnt is not sposed to interfere with churches 
and religions.  (Founded on religious freedom)
  or
  2)The constitution infers that Churches and religion are supposed to 
steer clear of all things public and politic.  

  I am of the former ilk.  
  Not too many inbetweeners on this issue in my opinion.  

  From: Zach Underwood 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:36 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

  They only opened the club since the school has a club ran by the "Good News 
club"

  On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

So this is really a Trump club?

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:32 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  From the news:
   Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house 
Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.

  The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students 
to think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around 
them, according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.






  -- 

  Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
  My website

  advance-networking.com





-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
My website

advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, 2b is churches can be as political as they want, but not with tax exempt 
status.  (true of all non profits, religious or not)

 

And actually churches not being political means not directly supporting 
candidates or parties, they can (and do) take positions on government policies 
without jeopardizing their status as nonprofits.

 

Some congregations may want their church to be political, some may not.

 

Having once lived in Latin America, I observed (and I think much of the world 
is this way), that institutions like the church, the military, and universities 
are expected to have a role in the political process.  Universities typically 
represent the left, military the right.  I am not Catholic, but welcome input 
from the Pope, but consider it just that, input from someone with some moral 
authority.  Same with the Dali Lama, hey, I’ll listen.  All this can get 
carried away, like when you get Ayatollahs starting wars and issuing fatwas.  
And that takes us back to … The Great Satan.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

 

Like to see if they attract any members.  

 

Seems like there are two kinds of ‘Mericans

 

1)The constitution says guvmnt is not sposed to interfere with churches and 
religions.  (Founded on religious freedom)

or

2)The constitution infers that Churches and religion are supposed to steer 
clear of all things public and politic.  

 

I am of the former ilk.  

Not too many inbetweeners on this issue in my opinion.  

 

From: Zach Underwood 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:36 AM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

 

They only opened the club since the school has a club ran by the "Good News 
club"

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:

So this is really a Trump club?

 

From: Eric Kuhnke 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:32 AM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan

 

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:

>From the news:

 Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house Wednesday 
at Vista Elementary School.

The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students to 
think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around them, 
according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.

 





 

-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 

My website  

advance-networking.com  

Re: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

[Chuck McCown]

Maybe that is what it takes to read the meters in the area.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:58 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Utility company survey pole

See attached Pic.  Our power company has this pickup truck with a gigantic mast 
on the rear end.  I assume they're testing their smart meter junk with itor 
something.

My question is where can I get one of those?!
I'm definitely jealous of their survey pole size.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Zach Underwood]

The Satan church would rather see more separation of church and state but
since they can't remove the "Good New clubs" they set up their own clubs in
hopes that school staff/parents would freak out and remove all clubs with
a religious bent(like Boys Scouts "Good New clubs")

There are people in the atheist community that call the Church of Satan
trolls or  dinner theater atheist.
Some examples of the Church of Satan.
1. saying if the 10 commandments was not removed from the Oklahoma that
they was going to build a  nine-foot statue of Baphomet right next to it.
2. placing displays next to nativity scene on gov't lands.
3. giving invocations at meetings where there have been
christian invocations in the past.


On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Like to see if they attract any members.
>
> Seems like there are two kinds of ‘Mericans
>
> 1)The constitution says guvmnt is not sposed to interfere with
> churches and religions.  (Founded on religious freedom)
> or
> 2)The constitution infers that Churches and religion are supposed to
> steer clear of all things public and politic.
>
> I am of the former ilk.
> Not too many inbetweeners on this issue in my opinion.
>
> *From:* Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:36 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>
> They only opened the club since the school has a club ran by the "Good
> News club"
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> So this is really a Trump club?
>>
>> *From:* Eric Kuhnke
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:32 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> From the news:
>>>
>>>  Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house
>>> Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.
>>>
>>> The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students
>>> to think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around
>>> them, according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
>



-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Bill Prince]

Both of those are too simple for my taste, but I prefer #1 to #2 given 
only those two choices.


One of the interesting angles is people creating churches/religions for 
no reason other than tax avoidance. So the definition of a "church" or 
"religion" needs to be tightened up.



bp


On 1/12/2017 9:42 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Like to see if they attract any members.
Seems like there are two kinds of ‘Mericans
1)The constitution says guvmnt is not sposed to interfere with 
churches and religions.  (Founded on religious freedom)

or
2)The constitution infers that Churches and religion are supposed 
to steer clear of all things public and politic.

I am of the former ilk.
Not too many inbetweeners on this issue in my opinion.
*From:* Zach Underwood
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:36 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
They only opened the club since the school has a club ran by the "Good 
News club"

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

So this is really a Trump club?
*From:* Eric Kuhnke
*Sent:* Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:32 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

From the news:

Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open
house Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.

The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12,
encourages students to think critically and have a scientific
understanding of the world around them, according to Chalice
Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.



--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Chuck McCown]

Some states have a state USF and it is handled differently, sometimes with 
strings attached.  I don’t think telcos turn down federal USF.  

Some do turn down CAF and some states want CAF.  CAF is tax dollar based.  And 
CAF is not related to divestiture.  It is an invention of the Obama 
administration.  

CAF != USF by any stretch.  

And there is a push in all states to make ISPs fund the USF right along with 
cell phone carriers and everyone else.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

But now you see states (I think Massachusetts is the latest) want to receive 
the USF money their telcos have turned down.  Why is there no sunset on this 
“fee”?  I think USF “contributions” have doubled in recent years?  Why not just 
let the percentage go back down, if the telcos don’t want the money.

 

I think because of not calling it a tax, even though it walks and quacks like a 
tax.  If it was called a tax, the public and all fiscal conservative 
legislators would be all over it, to have it reduced or eliminated.

 

It’s like the March of Dimes, we need to reinvent ourselves, polio was 
eliminated, but we still have all these dimes coming in!

 

Plus I take issue with your historical analysis, nothing about LD revenue and 
breaking up the Bell System justifies the repurposing of this money to the 
“Connect America Fund”.

 

Let’s face it, POTS is a relic, and the concept of LD vs local calling is a 
relic.  People are switching to cellphones and that isn’t going to change.  All 
government programs need a sunset provision, where their original reason for 
existence has to be re-examined and justified anew.

 

The real day of reckoning will come when the “contribution base” from 
interstate voice no longer funds CAF, and they want to make ISPs start 
contributing on their broadband revenue.  You’re internet bill now has a new 
17% fee!  Will these unelected agencies be able to say nothing to see here, 
it’s just a fee, move along?  Or will Congress have to authorize it?  And if 
so, will they have to treat it as a tax and therefore the third rail especially 
with Republicans controlling both houses of Congress and a Republican? In the 
White House?  Not sure what DJT would think of it.  Populists traditionally 
favor bread and circuses, and don’t worry as much about deficit spending as 
Republicans supposedly do.  New taxes would still seem counterintuitive.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

No, it is a replacement for revenue previously obtained from AT on line-haul 
agreements.  As a consideration for the divestiture and forcing AT to allow 
others to enter the long distance arena, the revenue previously shared with the 
smaller non AT companies was diverted to the National Exchange Carriers 
Association, NECA for distribution in a socialist manner.  

 

And everyone’s long distance bills went way way down.   Then when the 96 act 
happened and CLECS were allowed to enter the local exchange market similar how 
the LD companies were allowed after divestiture, USAC was invented to move some 
of the local exchange tariff revenue into another pool to replace money that 
local exchange carriers would lose when CLECs stole their customers.  

 

So, LD revenue and local revenue were moved to pools to allow competition.  
NECA administers one pool of revenue, USAC the other.  Neither is the 
government.  And contributions are non compulsory on the customers however most 
pass the fees along, however some do not.  NECA and USAC are simply two not for 
profit companies that have been designated by the FCC to distribute the dole.  

 

I remember when a phone call to the next town over , 13 miles away, was 15 
cents per minute during the day.  Anyone want to go back to that?

 

You do not have to use a phone.   

You do not have to water ski at Lake Powell, so the National Park Service fee 
to enter the area is a fee, not a tax.  

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:06 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Hi,

Not to be picky about terminology, but by definition a "tax" is "a compulsory 
contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and 
business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and 
transactions."

Isn't this money collected as USF and other "fees" on telephone bills? And 
these are fees that I can NOT remove from my phone bill, so basically it's a 
tax... it's just a telephone tax rather than income or sales tax. Right?

Travis

On 1/12/2017 9:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Depending on the area, FCC study area, parent trap rules etc, a rural sub can 
earn up to about $200/month even if they don’t pay their bill or use any 
services.  It used to be more.  If you overearn, your welfare check gets 

Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience

[Josh Baird]

This PTP800 is only capable of running at 40Mhz (ODU-A) so it can only do
228Mbps full-duplex.  The AF11x should be able to do much more than that,
right?

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> IIRC, PTP800 is Remec Style, you'll need Remec to N connector adapters
> (AF11x is N)
>
> What do you expect to achieve with this upgrade?  Not much capacity
>  difference between PTP800 and AF11x, maybe 50-80- mbps more.  Only if you
> have a xpic license you can double your throughput with the af11x
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
> joshba...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 9:12 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our UBNT AF11x experience
>
> Good news - thanks for sharing.
>
> Somewhat un-related question:
>
> I have a PTP-800 link using these dishes:
>
> http://www.hol4g.com/AC/product.aspx?number=ANC-VHLP3-
> 11W-RR1=237127=0
>
> Do you know if I can re-use these dishes with the AF11x?  Do I need
> adapters?
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>
>> Hey all, just dropping by to share our experience with AF11x, we habe
>> been beta testing the unit since Sept and for the last 3 months, the unit
>> has been rock solid.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are very happy with its performance, just wished it had a SFP port!
>>
>>
>>
>> This unit replaced a Mimosa B11 unit that we were having some intermitent
>> throughtput issues,
>>
>>
>>
>> The swap was easy since we reused the Jirous Dishes and only had to add
>> the af11x adapters to it,
>>
>>
>>
>> The link  went live on 9/21/16 and on the first weeks we experienced some
>> lockups, but after a revised beta fw was applied, all issues went away.
>>
>>
>>
>> For UBNT, please add SFP port and continue the good work towards a af6x
>> and af18x
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

[Ken Hohhof]

But now you see states (I think Massachusetts is the latest) want to receive 
the USF money their telcos have turned down.  Why is there no sunset on this 
“fee”?  I think USF “contributions” have doubled in recent years?  Why not just 
let the percentage go back down, if the telcos don’t want the money.

 

I think because of not calling it a tax, even though it walks and quacks like a 
tax.  If it was called a tax, the public and all fiscal conservative 
legislators would be all over it, to have it reduced or eliminated.

 

It’s like the March of Dimes, we need to reinvent ourselves, polio was 
eliminated, but we still have all these dimes coming in!

 

Plus I take issue with your historical analysis, nothing about LD revenue and 
breaking up the Bell System justifies the repurposing of this money to the 
“Connect America Fund”.

 

Let’s face it, POTS is a relic, and the concept of LD vs local calling is a 
relic.  People are switching to cellphones and that isn’t going to change.  All 
government programs need a sunset provision, where their original reason for 
existence has to be re-examined and justified anew.

 

The real day of reckoning will come when the “contribution base” from 
interstate voice no longer funds CAF, and they want to make ISPs start 
contributing on their broadband revenue.  You’re internet bill now has a new 
17% fee!  Will these unelected agencies be able to say nothing to see here, 
it’s just a fee, move along?  Or will Congress have to authorize it?  And if 
so, will they have to treat it as a tax and therefore the third rail especially 
with Republicans controlling both houses of Congress and a Republican? In the 
White House?  Not sure what DJT would think of it.  Populists traditionally 
favor bread and circuses, and don’t worry as much about deficit spending as 
Republicans supposedly do.  New taxes would still seem counterintuitive.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

No, it is a replacement for revenue previously obtained from AT on line-haul 
agreements.  As a consideration for the divestiture and forcing AT to allow 
others to enter the long distance arena, the revenue previously shared with the 
smaller non AT companies was diverted to the National Exchange Carriers 
Association, NECA for distribution in a socialist manner.  

 

And everyone’s long distance bills went way way down.   Then when the 96 act 
happened and CLECS were allowed to enter the local exchange market similar how 
the LD companies were allowed after divestiture, USAC was invented to move some 
of the local exchange tariff revenue into another pool to replace money that 
local exchange carriers would lose when CLECs stole their customers.  

 

So, LD revenue and local revenue were moved to pools to allow competition.  
NECA administers one pool of revenue, USAC the other.  Neither is the 
government.  And contributions are non compulsory on the customers however most 
pass the fees along, however some do not.  NECA and USAC are simply two not for 
profit companies that have been designated by the FCC to distribute the dole.  

 

I remember when a phone call to the next town over , 13 miles away, was 15 
cents per minute during the day.  Anyone want to go back to that?

 

You do not have to use a phone.   

You do not have to water ski at Lake Powell, so the National Park Service fee 
to enter the area is a fee, not a tax.  

 

From: Travis Johnson 

Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:06 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Price per sub?

 

Hi,

Not to be picky about terminology, but by definition a "tax" is "a compulsory 
contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and 
business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and 
transactions."

Isn't this money collected as USF and other "fees" on telephone bills? And 
these are fees that I can NOT remove from my phone bill, so basically it's a 
tax... it's just a telephone tax rather than income or sales tax. Right?

Travis

On 1/12/2017 9:59 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Depending on the area, FCC study area, parent trap rules etc, a rural sub can 
earn up to about $200/month even if they don’t pay their bill or use any 
services.  It used to be more.  If you overearn, your welfare check gets cut, 
but in any case the guaranteed rate of return used to be 11.25%.  And that is 
an ROI after cost recovery of legit expenses.  That is an EBITDA ROR.  Hard to 
pass up a deal like that.  

 

But the FCC is deflating that whole program.  They pushed a whole bunch of 
these rural companies into a lucrative A-CAM deal that pays them a fixed amount 
for the next 10 years with the expectation of nothing after that.  For the “buy 
out” they have to agree to upgrade to 25 Mbps service.  

 

They did cap executive pay for a while then repealed it, I think it is back on. 
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

[Chuck McCown]

Like to see if they attract any members.  

Seems like there are two kinds of ‘Mericans

1)The constitution says guvmnt is not sposed to interfere with churches and 
religions.  (Founded on religious freedom)
or
2)The constitution infers that Churches and religion are supposed to steer 
clear of all things public and politic.  

I am of the former ilk.  
Not too many inbetweeners on this issue in my opinion.  

From: Zach Underwood 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:36 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

They only opened the club since the school has a club ran by the "Good News 
club"

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  So this is really a Trump club?

  From: Eric Kuhnke 
  Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 10:32 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Whadya mean Utah is not diverse

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan


  On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

From the news:
 Utah’s first After School Satan Club kicked off with an open house 
Wednesday at Vista Elementary School.

The club, for children between the ages of 5 and 12, encourages students to 
think critically and have a scientific understanding of the world around them, 
according to Chalice Blythe, Utah chapter head for The Satanic Temple.






-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
My website

advance-networking.com