Re: [AFMUG] SunSight MW15

[Josh Reynolds]

Eh...

There are 6400mils in a circle, compared to 360 degrees.

Much more accurate.

Signed, a former artillery/mortar/CAS guy

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018, 9:55 AM Robert  wrote:

> Long distance shooting talk...
>
> On 4/25/18 7:05 AM, castarritt wrote:
> > 5 milliradian would be ~0.3°
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 6:24 PM,  > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Not huge if you consider most of the main lobes are that wide or
> > wider, so just as long as you can get it close enough to tweak with
> > signal levels, that is all you need.
> > If you are thinking of a set it and forget it, a tenth of a degree
> > would be needed for that.  Depending on frequency and gain of course.
> > 5 mil meaning?
> > *From:* Josh Reynolds
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 24, 2018 5:11 PM
> > *To:* af@afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SunSight MW15
> > Get it down to 5mil accuracy and then we are talking! :) 1deg is
> huge!
> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 12:53 PM  wrote:
> >
> > $15K
> > One of my sons worked on doing something similar all last
> > summer. He ran out of time before we finished it.  We got down
> > to about 1 degree azimuth accuracy.  Maybe we will finish it
> > someday.
> > *From:* Jaime Solorza
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 24, 2018 11:50 AM
> > *To:* Animal Farm
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SunSight MW15
> > I just video last week..how much are they?
> >
> > Jaime Solorza
> > On Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 11:45 AM Joshua Heide
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Wanted to see if anyone had any experience using these
> > alignment tools? If so would you recommend this product over
> > others brands out there? besides the buying new directly
> > from the manufacturer is there another good place to buy one
> > or find a used one?
> >
> > Thanks for the help!
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] SunSight MW15

[Josh Reynolds]

Get it down to 5mil accuracy and then we are talking! :) 1deg is huge!

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 12:53 PM  wrote:

> $15K
>
> One of my sons worked on doing something similar all last summer.  He ran
> out of time before we finished it.  We got down to about 1 degree azimuth
> accuracy.  Maybe we will finish it someday.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 24, 2018 11:50 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SunSight MW15
>
> I just video last week..how much are they?
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 11:45 AM Joshua Heide 
> wrote:
>
>> Wanted to see if anyone had any experience using these alignment tools?
>> If so would you recommend this product over others brands out there?
>> besides the buying new directly from the manufacturer is there another good
>> place to buy one or find a used one?
>>
>> Thanks for the help!
>>
>> Josh
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Watch "Burger King | Whopper Neutrality" on YouTube

[Josh Reynolds]

To be fair, said government agency seems to not give a damn.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 3:33 PM Jay Weekley  wrote:

> Let's see Burger King hold themselves to the same standards as net
> neutrality and if I get cold fries I want to complain to a government
> agency.
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
> > Frustrating at the least.  The ignorance is painful.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:12 PM, Josh Reynolds  > <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
> >
> > https://youtu.be/ltzy5vRmN8Q
> >
> > Pretty funny..
> >
> >
> >
> > <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
> >   Virus-free. www.avg.com
> > <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
> >
> >
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Facebook non-users

[Josh Reynolds]

"Failed logins" are also something Facebook collects.

There is a previous lawsuit where Zuck "hacked" some reporters emails via
using their failed login credentials to log into their email on record to
monitor a story against him/Facebook. (Story was about 7 years ago.)

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 3:10 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Those people searches use the massive databases
> your IP is know, with location
> scouring public web data, maybe you posted to amfug, your IP may be
> present in an archive with your email address in a header
> youre email was registered at such and such
> etc
> big data on its own is invasive, thats without even accepting TOS
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 3:02 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> They can for sure collect anonymous data even if you don't have an
>> account.
>> The IP for my house geocodes exactly to my house, that correlated with
>> other public records could be used to identify me even if I didn't have a
>> Facebook account.
>>
>> Hypothetically of course.  I have no idea what they really do.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Steve Jones" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 4/19/2018 3:59:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Facebook non-users
>>
>> I think "how is that done" "what is collected" "did I approve this" are
>> all questions that will only ever be answered by future subpoenas.
>> I would bet if using chrome to visit facebook, you share more than youd
>> prefer, google also has you accept a TOS
>> FB and google are thick as thieves
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> How is that done? I do not have a FB account at all. Sure I have
>>> occasionally viewed a FB page from someone, but I've never logged into any
>>> of their services. I stay as far away as possible. I don't twitter either.
>>>
>>> --
>>> bp
>>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 12:47 PM, Steve Jones >> > wrote:
>>>
 yes you are, and he skirted that specific question may times because of
 the liability in doing that without you having agreed to the TOS.
 Alot depends on what level of access FB has outside its app, when you
 accept terms on a mobile device you all but give FB ownership of your
 phone, so every persons whos accepted the FB TOS is pretty much a Typhoid
 Mary


 On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 2:35 PM, Bill Prince 
 wrote:

> I've been casually following the FB bruhahah, and one of the topics
> that comes up is about whether FB follows what they call "non-users", but
> whenthey describe non-users, they refer to FB users that just aren't 
> logged
> in.
>
> Well I'm a non-user, but I don't have a FB account at all, nor do I
> use FB. Now I have occasionally followed a link to FB, but my interaction
> with their service could be described as "almost" non-existent. Am I a FB
> "non-user" or not. And if I am, what sort of data would they be collecting
> on me if I don't even go there or have an account?
>
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>


>>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] Watch "Burger King | Whopper Neutrality" on YouTube

[Josh Reynolds]

https://youtu.be/ltzy5vRmN8Q

Pretty funny..

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

It's a great way to get money though

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018, 10:15 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'd be all for that.  I read somewhere that for all the $billions we spend
> on the DEA we are able to stop about 2% of drug traffic.  Sounds like a
> poor investment.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: 4/18/2018 12:45:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents
>
> You also avoid some of the issues with questionable quality/potency, and
> the related poisioning/overdose deaths.
>
> If one was to redirect all of the funds spent on the war on drugs (law
> enforcement, prisons, etc) into mental health, rehabilitation and
> education, I think we'd be far better off.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> That's... That's not at all how it works in the models I'm talking about.
>>
>> You make it 100% legal, and remove the stigma. You provide safe places to
>> get supplies and mental health care.
>>
>> This largely removes the drug market all together (crashes it), making it
>> not a viable thing to sell (better opportunity elsewhere).
>>
>> It also has the highest treatment success rate for overcoming hard drug
>> addiction (mental health care + kratom).
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:13 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> decriminalizing maintains the control, keeps people limited to user
>>> amounts only, doesnt turn a junkie into a felon whose life is effectively
>>> over, but the drug dealers can still be put in prison where they go.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you legalize but tax, there still can be room for a competitor's
>>>> product that is... Ahem tax free.
>>>>
>>>> It's a slipper slope, because if you are taxing it, you are also
>>>> regulating it.
>>>>
>>>> It's crazy ... We allow alcohol but ban weed. Alcohol is disasterous!
>>>>
>>>> You can sell homeopathic snake oil, but if you have a couple of
>>>> mushrooms you found under cowshit in a field you can go to prison.
>>>>
>>>> This is all so stupid.
>>>>
>>>> ... But hey, D.A.R.E.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 10:43 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I like pissing off cartels
>>>>>
>>>>> I always preferred decriminalization to legalization, maintains a
>>>>> secondary effective tax to offset the byproduct cost in treatment, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Decriminalize drugs except in the event of endangering the welfare of
>>>>>> a child, or risking life/limb of another person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Drugs are a personal choice. If Jimbo isn't hurting anybody by coming
>>>>>> home and the end of a day and smoking a joint, or maybe using mushrooms 
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> MDA to help overcome emotional trauma, or for religious reasons, who's
>>>>>> business is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hard drugs are often done to escape inward or to damage onesself or
>>>>>> to feel something or just... Feel. The root problem is mental health. Let
>>>>>> people get clean needles in a controlled setting and give them access to
>>>>>> talk to someone. It's had amazing effects in those mentioned contries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yeah, it'll right piss off the cartels too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 9:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> theres no shortage of criminals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds >>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wish we would treat drugs here like they do in Spain and
>>>>>>>> Portugal, but how would our for-profit prison system, police and 
>>>>>>>> federal
>>>>>>>> law enforcement get money?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:42 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

Agree 100%

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:45 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> You also avoid some of the issues with questionable quality/potency, and
> the related poisioning/overdose deaths.
>
> If one was to redirect all of the funds spent on the war on drugs (law
> enforcement, prisons, etc) into mental health, rehabilitation and
> education, I think we'd be far better off.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> That's... That's not at all how it works in the models I'm talking about.
>>
>> You make it 100% legal, and remove the stigma. You provide safe places to
>> get supplies and mental health care.
>>
>> This largely removes the drug market all together (crashes it), making it
>> not a viable thing to sell (better opportunity elsewhere).
>>
>> It also has the highest treatment success rate for overcoming hard drug
>> addiction (mental health care + kratom).
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:13 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> decriminalizing maintains the control, keeps people limited to user
>>> amounts only, doesnt turn a junkie into a felon whose life is effectively
>>> over, but the drug dealers can still be put in prison where they go.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you legalize but tax, there still can be room for a competitor's
>>>> product that is... Ahem tax free.
>>>>
>>>> It's a slipper slope, because if you are taxing it, you are also
>>>> regulating it.
>>>>
>>>> It's crazy ... We allow alcohol but ban weed. Alcohol is disasterous!
>>>>
>>>> You can sell homeopathic snake oil, but if you have a couple of
>>>> mushrooms you found under cowshit in a field you can go to prison.
>>>>
>>>> This is all so stupid.
>>>>
>>>> ... But hey, D.A.R.E.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 10:43 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I like pissing off cartels
>>>>>
>>>>> I always preferred decriminalization to legalization, maintains a
>>>>> secondary effective tax to offset the byproduct cost in treatment, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Decriminalize drugs except in the event of endangering the welfare of
>>>>>> a child, or risking life/limb of another person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Drugs are a personal choice. If Jimbo isn't hurting anybody by coming
>>>>>> home and the end of a day and smoking a joint, or maybe using mushrooms 
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> MDA to help overcome emotional trauma, or for religious reasons, who's
>>>>>> business is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hard drugs are often done to escape inward or to damage onesself or
>>>>>> to feel something or just... Feel. The root problem is mental health. Let
>>>>>> people get clean needles in a controlled setting and give them access to
>>>>>> talk to someone. It's had amazing effects in those mentioned contries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yeah, it'll right piss off the cartels too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 9:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> theres no shortage of criminals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds >>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wish we would treat drugs here like they do in Spain and
>>>>>>>> Portugal, but how would our for-profit prison system, police and 
>>>>>>>> federal
>>>>>>>> law enforcement get money?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:42 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thats heroin that permantly alters the opoid receptors in the
>>>>>>>>> brain, the molecule is slightly larger than the normal brain chemical
>>>>>>>>> (dopamine i think) 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

Alcohol wasn't just made 100% illegal, first driving up demand, but then it
was made legal to 18 and then 21 year olds to where it became the "gateway
to cool".

Oh, and it's fucking advertised on everything.

I'm not saying we could get rid of alcohol or any drug completely, but
there are a lot of things we can do by making them legal and providing
treatment to throw a wrench in the cartels, drive down demand, and actually
start saving people and families - right now we just throw them in jail.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:25 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> worked great for alcoholism and you cant even get black market moonshine
> now...oh wait
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 11:18 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> That's... That's not at all how it works in the models I'm talking about.
>>
>> You make it 100% legal, and remove the stigma. You provide safe places to
>> get supplies and mental health care.
>>
>> This largely removes the drug market all together (crashes it), making it
>> not a viable thing to sell (better opportunity elsewhere).
>>
>> It also has the highest treatment success rate for overcoming hard drug
>> addiction (mental health care + kratom).
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:13 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> decriminalizing maintains the control, keeps people limited to user
>>> amounts only, doesnt turn a junkie into a felon whose life is effectively
>>> over, but the drug dealers can still be put in prison where they go.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you legalize but tax, there still can be room for a competitor's
>>>> product that is... Ahem tax free.
>>>>
>>>> It's a slipper slope, because if you are taxing it, you are also
>>>> regulating it.
>>>>
>>>> It's crazy ... We allow alcohol but ban weed. Alcohol is disasterous!
>>>>
>>>> You can sell homeopathic snake oil, but if you have a couple of
>>>> mushrooms you found under cowshit in a field you can go to prison.
>>>>
>>>> This is all so stupid.
>>>>
>>>> ... But hey, D.A.R.E.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 10:43 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I like pissing off cartels
>>>>>
>>>>> I always preferred decriminalization to legalization, maintains a
>>>>> secondary effective tax to offset the byproduct cost in treatment, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Decriminalize drugs except in the event of endangering the welfare of
>>>>>> a child, or risking life/limb of another person.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Drugs are a personal choice. If Jimbo isn't hurting anybody by coming
>>>>>> home and the end of a day and smoking a joint, or maybe using mushrooms 
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> MDA to help overcome emotional trauma, or for religious reasons, who's
>>>>>> business is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hard drugs are often done to escape inward or to damage onesself or
>>>>>> to feel something or just... Feel. The root problem is mental health. Let
>>>>>> people get clean needles in a controlled setting and give them access to
>>>>>> talk to someone. It's had amazing effects in those mentioned contries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yeah, it'll right piss off the cartels too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 9:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> theres no shortage of criminals
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds >>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wish we would treat drugs here like they do in Spain and
>>>>>>>> Portugal, but how would our for-profit prison system, police and 
>>>>>>>> federal
>>>>>>>> law enforcement get money?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:42 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thats he

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

That's... That's not at all how it works in the models I'm talking about.

You make it 100% legal, and remove the stigma. You provide safe places to
get supplies and mental health care.

This largely removes the drug market all together (crashes it), making it
not a viable thing to sell (better opportunity elsewhere).

It also has the highest treatment success rate for overcoming hard drug
addiction (mental health care + kratom).


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:13 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> decriminalizing maintains the control, keeps people limited to user
> amounts only, doesnt turn a junkie into a felon whose life is effectively
> over, but the drug dealers can still be put in prison where they go.
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> If you legalize but tax, there still can be room for a competitor's
>> product that is... Ahem tax free.
>>
>> It's a slipper slope, because if you are taxing it, you are also
>> regulating it.
>>
>> It's crazy ... We allow alcohol but ban weed. Alcohol is disasterous!
>>
>> You can sell homeopathic snake oil, but if you have a couple of mushrooms
>> you found under cowshit in a field you can go to prison.
>>
>> This is all so stupid.
>>
>> ... But hey, D.A.R.E.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 10:43 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I like pissing off cartels
>>>
>>> I always preferred decriminalization to legalization, maintains a
>>> secondary effective tax to offset the byproduct cost in treatment, etc.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Decriminalize drugs except in the event of endangering the welfare of a
>>>> child, or risking life/limb of another person.
>>>>
>>>> Drugs are a personal choice. If Jimbo isn't hurting anybody by coming
>>>> home and the end of a day and smoking a joint, or maybe using mushrooms or
>>>> MDA to help overcome emotional trauma, or for religious reasons, who's
>>>> business is that?
>>>>
>>>> Hard drugs are often done to escape inward or to damage onesself or to
>>>> feel something or just... Feel. The root problem is mental health. Let
>>>> people get clean needles in a controlled setting and give them access to
>>>> talk to someone. It's had amazing effects in those mentioned contries.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yeah, it'll right piss off the cartels too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 9:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> theres no shortage of criminals
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wish we would treat drugs here like they do in Spain and Portugal,
>>>>>> but how would our for-profit prison system, police and federal law
>>>>>> enforcement get money?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:42 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thats heroin that permantly alters the opoid receptors in the brain,
>>>>>>> the molecule is slightly larger than the normal brain chemical 
>>>>>>> (dopamine i
>>>>>>> think) its replacing, so the receptor is enlarged. Its actually that 
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> use that is why doing heroin is called chasing the dragon, people are
>>>>>>> seeking to replicate that first high but never can because the 
>>>>>>> physiologic
>>>>>>> change only happens once so its like chasing a dragon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:18 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's Fake News.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:21 PM Nate Burke 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought I heard somewhere that any use of Meth, even once,
>>>>>>>>> permanently
>>>>>>>>> alters the brain chemistry.  So it's not a 'recreational' drug,
>>>>>>>>> and why
>>>>>>>>> it's so addictive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

If you legalize but tax, there still can be room for a competitor's product
that is... Ahem tax free.

It's a slipper slope, because if you are taxing it, you are also regulating
it.

It's crazy ... We allow alcohol but ban weed. Alcohol is disasterous!

You can sell homeopathic snake oil, but if you have a couple of mushrooms
you found under cowshit in a field you can go to prison.

This is all so stupid.

... But hey, D.A.R.E.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 10:43 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I like pissing off cartels
>
> I always preferred decriminalization to legalization, maintains a
> secondary effective tax to offset the byproduct cost in treatment, etc.
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> Decriminalize drugs except in the event of endangering the welfare of a
>> child, or risking life/limb of another person.
>>
>> Drugs are a personal choice. If Jimbo isn't hurting anybody by coming
>> home and the end of a day and smoking a joint, or maybe using mushrooms or
>> MDA to help overcome emotional trauma, or for religious reasons, who's
>> business is that?
>>
>> Hard drugs are often done to escape inward or to damage onesself or to
>> feel something or just... Feel. The root problem is mental health. Let
>> people get clean needles in a controlled setting and give them access to
>> talk to someone. It's had amazing effects in those mentioned contries.
>>
>> Oh yeah, it'll right piss off the cartels too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 9:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> theres no shortage of criminals
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wish we would treat drugs here like they do in Spain and Portugal,
>>>> but how would our for-profit prison system, police and federal law
>>>> enforcement get money?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:42 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thats heroin that permantly alters the opoid receptors in the brain,
>>>>> the molecule is slightly larger than the normal brain chemical (dopamine i
>>>>> think) its replacing, so the receptor is enlarged. Its actually that first
>>>>> use that is why doing heroin is called chasing the dragon, people are
>>>>> seeking to replicate that first high but never can because the physiologic
>>>>> change only happens once so its like chasing a dragon
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:18 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's Fake News.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:21 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought I heard somewhere that any use of Meth, even once,
>>>>>>> permanently
>>>>>>> alters the brain chemistry.  So it's not a 'recreational' drug, and
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> it's so addictive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/17/2018 2:11 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>>>>> > Anything that makes me not want to eat or sleep isn't for me.  I
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> > those too much.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>>>> >> If I am going to use bath salts, they are called Epsom and they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> >> dissolved in hot water...
>>>>>>> >> Not really clear what they mean by bath salts.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I was prescribed Xanax once.  Made me sleepy.
>>>>>>> >> Pot was not my thing back in the 70s...
>>>>>>> >> (I preferred Olympia, Blitz, Rainier, Hamms, Miller, Heineken,
>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>> >> Winehards Private Reserve...)
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Not really sure what meth does to you but I know it is horribly
>>>>>>> >> addictive and ruins everyone that gets hooked.
>>>>>>> >> I guess it is a version of speed.  But no direct experience with
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> >> either.  Not wanting anything that cause my hear to race.
>>>>>>> >> Coke Zero does that enough for me.
>>>>>>> >>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

Decriminalize drugs except in the event of endangering the welfare of a
child, or risking life/limb of another person.

Drugs are a personal choice. If Jimbo isn't hurting anybody by coming home
and the end of a day and smoking a joint, or maybe using mushrooms or MDA
to help overcome emotional trauma, or for religious reasons, who's business
is that?

Hard drugs are often done to escape inward or to damage onesself or to feel
something or just... Feel. The root problem is mental health. Let people
get clean needles in a controlled setting and give them access to talk to
someone. It's had amazing effects in those mentioned contries.

Oh yeah, it'll right piss off the cartels too.



On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 9:47 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> theres no shortage of criminals
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 6:47 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> I wish we would treat drugs here like they do in Spain and Portugal, but
>> how would our for-profit prison system, police and federal law enforcement
>> get money?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:42 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thats heroin that permantly alters the opoid receptors in the brain, the
>>> molecule is slightly larger than the normal brain chemical (dopamine i
>>> think) its replacing, so the receptor is enlarged. Its actually that first
>>> use that is why doing heroin is called chasing the dragon, people are
>>> seeking to replicate that first high but never can because the physiologic
>>> change only happens once so its like chasing a dragon
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:18 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's Fake News.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:21 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I thought I heard somewhere that any use of Meth, even once,
>>>>> permanently
>>>>> alters the brain chemistry.  So it's not a 'recreational' drug, and
>>>>> why
>>>>> it's so addictive.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/17/2018 2:11 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>>>> > Anything that makes me not want to eat or sleep isn't for me.  I
>>>>> like
>>>>> > those too much.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>> >> If I am going to use bath salts, they are called Epsom and they are
>>>>> >> dissolved in hot water...
>>>>> >> Not really clear what they mean by bath salts.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I was prescribed Xanax once.  Made me sleepy.
>>>>> >> Pot was not my thing back in the 70s...
>>>>> >> (I preferred Olympia, Blitz, Rainier, Hamms, Miller, Heineken,
>>>>> Henry
>>>>> >> Winehards Private Reserve...)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Not really sure what meth does to you but I know it is horribly
>>>>> >> addictive and ruins everyone that gets hooked.
>>>>> >> I guess it is a version of speed.  But no direct experience with
>>>>> that
>>>>> >> either.  Not wanting anything that cause my hear to race.
>>>>> >> Coke Zero does that enough for me.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> My wife lived on Oxy after a pair of horrific surgeries
>>>>> >> (decompression of the spine, harrington rods, 14 lag screws into
>>>>> her
>>>>> >> vertebrae).
>>>>> >> But she didn't get hooked.  Claimed it worked really well.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>>>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:08 PM
>>>>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I understand opiods, Xanax and pot but meth just doesn't sound like
>>>>> fun
>>>>> >> and bath salts has to be the lowest of lows.  Granted, all I know
>>>>> about
>>>>> >> bath salts are the videos I've come across.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>> >>> They released the report, they seized appox 70 grams of xanax, 16
>>>>> >>> doses od suboxone (essentially heroin) 11.8 grams of bath salts.
>>>>> >>> other misch controlled substance pills as well as delivery of meth
>>>>> >&g

Re: [AFMUG] Chicago-Area UBNT USG

[Josh Reynolds]

You talking about ye olden USG? Little square thing?

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:25 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> If any of you in the Chicago area have an available UBNT USG, let me know.
> I opened up mine today for a demo tomorrow and it's dead.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

I wish we would treat drugs here like they do in Spain and Portugal, but
how would our for-profit prison system, police and federal law enforcement
get money?

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:42 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Thats heroin that permantly alters the opoid receptors in the brain, the
> molecule is slightly larger than the normal brain chemical (dopamine i
> think) its replacing, so the receptor is enlarged. Its actually that first
> use that is why doing heroin is called chasing the dragon, people are
> seeking to replicate that first high but never can because the physiologic
> change only happens once so its like chasing a dragon
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 6:18 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> That's Fake News.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:21 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> I thought I heard somewhere that any use of Meth, even once, permanently
>>> alters the brain chemistry.  So it's not a 'recreational' drug, and why
>>> it's so addictive.
>>>
>>> On 4/17/2018 2:11 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
>>> > Anything that makes me not want to eat or sleep isn't for me.  I like
>>> > those too much.
>>> >
>>> > Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> >> If I am going to use bath salts, they are called Epsom and they are
>>> >> dissolved in hot water...
>>> >> Not really clear what they mean by bath salts.
>>> >>
>>> >> I was prescribed Xanax once.  Made me sleepy.
>>> >> Pot was not my thing back in the 70s...
>>> >> (I preferred Olympia, Blitz, Rainier, Hamms, Miller, Heineken, Henry
>>> >> Winehards Private Reserve...)
>>> >>
>>> >> Not really sure what meth does to you but I know it is horribly
>>> >> addictive and ruins everyone that gets hooked.
>>> >> I guess it is a version of speed.  But no direct experience with that
>>> >> either.  Not wanting anything that cause my hear to race.
>>> >> Coke Zero does that enough for me.
>>> >>
>>> >> My wife lived on Oxy after a pair of horrific surgeries
>>> >> (decompression of the spine, harrington rods, 14 lag screws into her
>>> >> vertebrae).
>>> >> But she didn't get hooked.  Claimed it worked really well.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:08 PM
>>> >> To: af@afmug.com
>>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents
>>> >>
>>> >> I understand opiods, Xanax and pot but meth just doesn't sound like
>>> fun
>>> >> and bath salts has to be the lowest of lows.  Granted, all I know
>>> about
>>> >> bath salts are the videos I've come across.
>>> >>
>>> >> Steve Jones wrote:
>>> >>> They released the report, they seized appox 70 grams of xanax, 16
>>> >>> doses od suboxone (essentially heroin) 11.8 grams of bath salts.
>>> >>> other misch controlled substance pills as well as delivery of meth
>>> >>> charges.
>>> >>> fucking bath salts
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Dave >> >>> <mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I hear the same shit as lewis and the sheriff mentioned that
>>> Every
>>> >>> vehicle that is pulled over has some form of drug or
>>> paraphernalia
>>> >>> in it.
>>> >>> Meth is the demon drug that will cause even the most humble
>>> become
>>> >>> demented.
>>> >>> A peer of my rank in the army said "That some were just not meant
>>> >>> to breed!" We laughed about it but I do believe there is some
>>> >>> truth to that.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 04/15/2018 05:11 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>> >>>> I think Meth answers all your "why" questions. Since I deal with
>>> >>>> almost every sheriff in and most every drug focused law
>>> >>>> enforcement I hear a lot of their stories. One of them tells me
>>> >>>> that 95%+ of crime is drug related. CPS type problems they put
>>> at
>>> >>>> about 80% with the remaining 15% made of of perve

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

That's Fake News.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:21 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I thought I heard somewhere that any use of Meth, even once, permanently
> alters the brain chemistry.  So it's not a 'recreational' drug, and why
> it's so addictive.
>
> On 4/17/2018 2:11 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> > Anything that makes me not want to eat or sleep isn't for me.  I like
> > those too much.
> >
> > Chuck McCown wrote:
> >> If I am going to use bath salts, they are called Epsom and they are
> >> dissolved in hot water...
> >> Not really clear what they mean by bath salts.
> >>
> >> I was prescribed Xanax once.  Made me sleepy.
> >> Pot was not my thing back in the 70s...
> >> (I preferred Olympia, Blitz, Rainier, Hamms, Miller, Heineken, Henry
> >> Winehards Private Reserve...)
> >>
> >> Not really sure what meth does to you but I know it is horribly
> >> addictive and ruins everyone that gets hooked.
> >> I guess it is a version of speed.  But no direct experience with that
> >> either.  Not wanting anything that cause my hear to race.
> >> Coke Zero does that enough for me.
> >>
> >> My wife lived on Oxy after a pair of horrific surgeries
> >> (decompression of the spine, harrington rods, 14 lag screws into her
> >> vertebrae).
> >> But she didn't get hooked.  Claimed it worked really well.
> >>
> >> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley
> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 12:08 PM
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents
> >>
> >> I understand opiods, Xanax and pot but meth just doesn't sound like fun
> >> and bath salts has to be the lowest of lows.  Granted, all I know about
> >> bath salts are the videos I've come across.
> >>
> >> Steve Jones wrote:
> >>> They released the report, they seized appox 70 grams of xanax, 16
> >>> doses od suboxone (essentially heroin) 11.8 grams of bath salts.
> >>> other misch controlled substance pills as well as delivery of meth
> >>> charges.
> >>> fucking bath salts
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Dave  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I hear the same shit as lewis and the sheriff mentioned that Every
> >>> vehicle that is pulled over has some form of drug or paraphernalia
> >>> in it.
> >>> Meth is the demon drug that will cause even the most humble become
> >>> demented.
> >>> A peer of my rank in the army said "That some were just not meant
> >>> to breed!" We laughed about it but I do believe there is some
> >>> truth to that.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 04/15/2018 05:11 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>  I think Meth answers all your "why" questions. Since I deal with
>  almost every sheriff in and most every drug focused law
>  enforcement I hear a lot of their stories. One of them tells me
>  that 95%+ of crime is drug related. CPS type problems they put at
>  about 80% with the remaining 15% made of of perverts that should
>  probably be castrated upon a verdict.
> 
>  On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:03 AM Chuck McCown   > wrote:
> 
>  I had a similar situation.  Rather my wife did.  We took the
>  kids in (her sister�s kids).
>  Very similar situation, neglected, abused, drugs etc.
>  One of the parents got them back for a while, then the other.
>  Those kids still think of my wife as �mom�.  They are all
>  grown up with grandkids of their own now.
>  One of them is a solid cop in Reno. The other has not turned
>  out so well.
>  The world needs standup guys like you.
>  *From:* Steve Jones
>  *Sent:* Saturday, April 14, 2018 11:00 PM
>  *To:* af@afmug.com
>  *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents
>  You folks get my vent because i cant anywherr else. So like 7
>  years ago we took in my old ladys nephews because, well
>  fuckwit parents. FYI the foster care system is aweful. We
>  fostered them for a year and half while her brother and baby
>  momma sorted their shit, or so we thought. The 18 month old
>  at the time had a club foot, i had to build a sleeping rig
>  with some shoes with the ankles hooked together and the toes
>  locked outward with a ruler, i worked his legs in and out til
>  his hip popped one night, i thought i broke his hip, but it
>  was just something going back. The 4 year old you couldbt
>  understand cause they thought baby talk was cute so they
>  never taught him to speak. We fixed that, and that was the
>  least bad of the fuckery. This was me, the old lady,
>  a1,2,4,and 5 year old with our 2 in a tiny 2 bedroom.
>  Finally got these boys shaped up and bought a house for room,
>  and a week later

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

War is ok though.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 1:39 PM justsumname  wrote:

> some people thought voting at 18 was a good idea.
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> yeah, can you imagine if a kid had got into that stuff
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Jay Weekley 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I understand opiods, Xanax and pot but meth just doesn't sound like fun
>>> and bath salts has to be the lowest of lows.  Granted, all I know about
>>> bath salts are the videos I've come across.
>>>
>>> Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
 They released the report, they seized appox 70 grams of xanax, 16 doses
 od suboxone (essentially heroin) 11.8 grams of bath salts. other misch
 controlled substance pills as well as delivery of meth charges.
 fucking bath salts

 On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 8:18 AM, Dave >>> dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

 I hear the same shit as lewis and the sheriff mentioned that Every
 vehicle that is pulled over has some form of drug or paraphernalia
 in it.
 Meth is the demon drug that will cause even the most humble become
 demented.
 A peer of my rank in the army said "That some were just not meant
 to breed!" We laughed about it but I do believe there is some
 truth to that.



 On 04/15/2018 05:11 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

> I think Meth answers all your "why" questions. Since I deal with
> almost every sheriff in and most every drug focused law
> enforcement I hear a lot of their stories. One of them tells me
> that 95%+ of crime is drug related. CPS type problems they put at
> about 80% with the remaining 15% made of of perverts that should
> probably be castrated upon a verdict.
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:03 AM Chuck McCown  > wrote:
>
> I had a similar situation.  Rather my wife did.  We took the
> kids in (her sister’s kids).
> Very similar situation, neglected, abused, drugs etc.
> One of the parents got them back for a while, then the other.
> Those kids still think of my wife as “mom”.  They are all
> grown up with grandkids of their own now.
> One of them is a solid cop in Reno. The other has not turned
> out so well.
> The world needs standup guys like you.
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 14, 2018 11:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents
>
> You folks get my vent because i cant anywherr else. So like 7
> years ago we took in my old ladys nephews because, well
> fuckwit parents. FYI the foster care system is aweful. We
> fostered them for a year and half while her brother and baby
> momma sorted their shit, or so we thought. The 18 month old
> at the time had a club foot, i had to build a sleeping rig
> with some shoes with the ankles hooked together and the toes
> locked outward with a ruler, i worked his legs in and out til
> his hip popped one night, i thought i broke his hip, but it
> was just something going back. The 4 year old you couldbt
> understand cause they thought baby talk was cute so they
> never taught him to speak. We fixed that, and that was the
> least bad of the fuckery. This was me, the old lady,
> a1,2,4,and 5 year old with our 2 in a tiny 2 bedroom.
> Finally got these boys shaped up and bought a house for room,
> and a week later they gave them back to the mom. The old
> ladies brother never did what he was supposed to.
> Now today was their grandmas (my old ladies step moms)
> funeral, so whats this trashcan do? Gets arrested for selling
> fucking meth
> So dealing with all that comes with a funeral, we had to be
> late dealing with the child services people. Get all that
> squared away, get through the funeral and now find out we
> also get the joy of headlice.
> Seriously, fucking shit fuck. How do people do this shit to
> kids, theyre not just a thing you have while doing other
> things.
> Im not lawfully allowed to discuss any of this with anyone
> who is remotely involved, i figure none of you are.
> But seriously, what the fuck, you get your kids back and sell
> meth. And theyre already asking if they sign their righys if
> they can see the kids still.
> I have very few skills, and none of rhem involve the ability
> to not want to feed these people lead
>
>
 --


 <
 http://www.avg.com/email-signature?ut

Re: [AFMUG] OT: very OT. Scumbag parents

[Josh Reynolds]

A lot of people have a poor sense of responsibility that ends up with them
having kids, often at a young age.

Unfortunately roughly half, based on my experience, never grow into that
responsibility.

Then their kids do the same, etc... Shitty cycle.

Props to you for trying to do the right thing here.

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018, 12:00 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> You folks get my vent because i cant anywherr else. So like 7 years ago we
> took in my old ladys nephews because, well fuckwit parents. FYI the foster
> care system is aweful. We fostered them for a year and half while her
> brother and baby momma sorted their shit, or so we thought. The 18 month
> old at the time had a club foot, i had to build a sleeping rig with some
> shoes with the ankles hooked together and the toes locked outward with a
> ruler, i worked his legs in and out til his hip popped one night, i thought
> i broke his hip, but it was just something going back. The 4 year old you
> couldbt understand cause they thought baby talk was cute so they never
> taught him to speak. We fixed that, and that was the least bad of the
> fuckery. This was me, the old lady, a1,2,4,and 5 year old with our 2 in a
> tiny 2 bedroom.
> Finally got these boys shaped up and bought a house for room, and a week
> later they gave them back to the mom. The old ladies brother never did what
> he was supposed to.
> Now today was their grandmas (my old ladies step moms) funeral, so whats
> this trashcan do? Gets arrested for selling fucking meth
> So dealing with all that comes with a funeral, we had to be late dealing
> with the child services people. Get all that squared away, get through the
> funeral and now find out we also get the joy of headlice.
> Seriously, fucking shit fuck. How do people do this shit to kids, theyre
> not just a thing you have while doing other things.
>
> Im not lawfully allowed to discuss any of this with anyone who is remotely
> involved, i figure none of you are.
>
> But seriously, what the fuck, you get your kids back and sell meth. And
> theyre already asking if they sign their righys if they can see the kids
> still.
>
> I have very few skills, and none of rhem involve the ability to not want
> to feed these people lead
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

I agree. Hangouts is terrible and should have been replaced long ago.

On Sat, Apr 14, 2018, 1:56 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> The app is dog shit and only getting worse.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, April 13, 2018 10:14:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>
> i use hangouts to communicate with my boy, its handy
>
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 9:04 PM, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> One to consider is Google Voice.
>>
>> You sign up for a free phone number account but it also has a chat
>> client. Can be app based on the phone or browser based as well. One nice
>> feature of the Google Voice chat is that you can also be texting/chatting
>> with mobile users just like texting between phones. Make conversations,
>> with those in the office easier because they don't have to use their phone,
>> they can be on the computer using a full keyboard. Supports full MMS,
>> pictures, hyperlinks etc. There is a chrome plugin as well. Side benefit is
>> that is have the voice/phone features including voicemail and voicemail to
>> text transcription, call screening and call forwarding based on rules or no
>> answer conditions.
>>
>> Still is the evil empire and them tracking al that you do so there is
>> that drawback
>>
>> https://voice.google.com
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 3:26 PM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>
>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites, what's
>> available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so I can send
>> the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im offers a
>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that there
>> was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] MDU coax

[Josh Reynolds]

It's been forever, don't remember the brands.

DTV is very sensitive. Be sure to use only RG6 cable and quality
Fconnectors. 44-700MHz for amps and splitters and patch panels.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:28 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> I figured. Any recommendation oh guru of knowledge?
>
> On Apr 13, 2018, at 19:20, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> You need distribution amplifier.
>
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:17 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any suggestions for how to take OTA reception of TV and
>> send it through existing coax in an MDU?  Do I need some sort of amplifier,
>> or will it work split off to say 50 units direct on the coax?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] MDU coax

[Josh Reynolds]

You need distribution amplifier.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 6:17 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Does anyone have any suggestions for how to take OTA reception of TV and
> send it through existing coax in an MDU?  Do I need some sort of amplifier,
> or will it work split off to say 50 units direct on the coax?
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

Yeah it doesn't make any sense to me either.

To each their own though.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 7:27 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> "utterly useless for multipronged projects"
>
> ??
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:20:43 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>
> Non threaded, limited "free" history, utterly useless for multipronged
> projects, its only good for fanbois
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:11 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> What does that even mean? Channels? Group chat? File sharing? I'm in
>> slack channels with hundreds of users.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Slack is fine for a few users, beyond that its garbage. Powercode uses
>>> it now, its why i dropped out of the mikrotik testing
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:22 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Slack, Ryver
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server.
>>>>> Spark with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your 
>>>>> account
>>>>> from one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent license 
>>>>> for
>>>>> my client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You dont
>>>>> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i control
>>>>> our users and log the communication
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slack
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>>>>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites,
>>>>>> what's available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so I 
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> send the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>>>>>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im offers
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that
>>>>>> there was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nate
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

Eh, the Brothers WISP slack and mine as well pull in the firmware updates
and changelogs, but that's just an extra and not their primary purposes.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 12:44 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Sorry, beta, not support, poor word choice. Even worse for a beta log
>
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 12:33 AM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> Using slack for support seems dumb. It's not the right tool for that.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 12:28 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Get powercode, get on that junk support slack. May be end user lack of
>>> use, but i dropped the mikrotik run because its such trash for support
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:58 PM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Huh - what are you talking bout?  Slack is certainly threaded.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:20 PM, Steve Jones <
>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Non threaded, limited "free" history, utterly useless for multipronged
>>>>> projects, its only good for fanbois
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:11 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What does that even mean? Channels? Group chat? File sharing? I'm in
>>>>>> slack channels with hundreds of users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slack is fine for a few users, beyond that its garbage. Powercode
>>>>>>> uses it now, its why i dropped out of the mikrotik testing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:22 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slack, Ryver
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server.
>>>>>>>>> Spark with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your 
>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>> from one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent 
>>>>>>>>> license for
>>>>>>>>> my client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You 
>>>>>>>>> dont
>>>>>>>>> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i 
>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>> our users and log the communication
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Slack
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites,
>>>>>>>>>> what's available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically 
>>>>>>>>>> so I can
>>>>>>>>>> send the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through 
>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im
>>>>>>>>>> offers a
>>>>>>>>>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that
>>>>>>>>>> there was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nate
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

Using slack for support seems dumb. It's not the right tool for that.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 12:28 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Get powercode, get on that junk support slack. May be end user lack of
> use, but i dropped the mikrotik run because its such trash for support
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:58 PM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Huh - what are you talking bout?  Slack is certainly threaded.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:20 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Non threaded, limited "free" history, utterly useless for multipronged
>>> projects, its only good for fanbois
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:11 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What does that even mean? Channels? Group chat? File sharing? I'm in
>>>> slack channels with hundreds of users.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Slack is fine for a few users, beyond that its garbage. Powercode uses
>>>>> it now, its why i dropped out of the mikrotik testing
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:22 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slack, Ryver
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server.
>>>>>>> Spark with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your 
>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>> from one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent license 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> my client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You 
>>>>>>> dont
>>>>>>> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i 
>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>> our users and log the communication
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slack
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites,
>>>>>>>> what's available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so 
>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>> send the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>>>>>>>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im
>>>>>>>> offers a
>>>>>>>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that
>>>>>>>> there was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

Using slack for support seems dumb. It's not the right tool for that.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 12:28 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Get powercode, get on that junk support slack. May be end user lack of
> use, but i dropped the mikrotik run because its such trash for support
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:58 PM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Huh - what are you talking bout?  Slack is certainly threaded.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:20 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Non threaded, limited "free" history, utterly useless for multipronged
>>> projects, its only good for fanbois
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:11 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What does that even mean? Channels? Group chat? File sharing? I'm in
>>>> slack channels with hundreds of users.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Slack is fine for a few users, beyond that its garbage. Powercode uses
>>>>> it now, its why i dropped out of the mikrotik testing
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:22 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slack, Ryver
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server.
>>>>>>> Spark with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your 
>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>> from one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent license 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> my client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You 
>>>>>>> dont
>>>>>>> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i 
>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>> our users and log the communication
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Slack
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites,
>>>>>>>> what's available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so 
>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>> send the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>>>>>>>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im
>>>>>>>> offers a
>>>>>>>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that
>>>>>>>> there was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nate
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

Not to mention it integrates with anything and has an easy to use API. It's
trivial to hack together some quick code to pull in alerts from various
tools, use it to monitor messages to your businesses social media accounts
and notifications, etc.

It's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

I don't like that if you are disconnected when you send a message that it
won't keep retrying. Google Hangouts is good about that, but sucks terribly
for anything else.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:53 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Multiple chat rooms, saves 10k messages per channel, Google drive /
> Dropbox integration, THREADED CHAT
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:20 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Non threaded, limited "free" history, utterly useless for multipronged
>> projects, its only good for fanbois
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:11 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>>> What does that even mean? Channels? Group chat? File sharing? I'm in
>>> slack channels with hundreds of users.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Slack is fine for a few users, beyond that its garbage. Powercode uses
>>>> it now, its why i dropped out of the mikrotik testing
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:22 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Slack, Ryver
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server.
>>>>>> Spark with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your 
>>>>>> account
>>>>>> from one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent license 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> my client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You 
>>>>>> dont
>>>>>> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i control
>>>>>> our users and log the communication
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Slack
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>>>>>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites,
>>>>>>> what's available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so I 
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> send the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>>>>>>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im offers
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that
>>>>>>> there was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nate
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

Multiple chat rooms, saves 10k messages per channel, Google drive / Dropbox
integration, THREADED CHAT

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 9:20 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Non threaded, limited "free" history, utterly useless for multipronged
> projects, its only good for fanbois
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:11 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> What does that even mean? Channels? Group chat? File sharing? I'm in
>> slack channels with hundreds of users.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Slack is fine for a few users, beyond that its garbage. Powercode uses
>>> it now, its why i dropped out of the mikrotik testing
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:22 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Slack, Ryver
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server.
>>>>> Spark with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your 
>>>>> account
>>>>> from one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent license 
>>>>> for
>>>>> my client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You dont
>>>>> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i control
>>>>> our users and log the communication
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Slack
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>>>>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites,
>>>>>> what's available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so I 
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> send the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>>>>>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im offers
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that
>>>>>> there was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nate
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

What does that even mean? Channels? Group chat? File sharing? I'm in slack
channels with hundreds of users.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 8:05 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Slack is fine for a few users, beyond that its garbage. Powercode uses it
> now, its why i dropped out of the mikrotik testing
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:22 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
>> Slack, Ryver
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server. Spark
>>> with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your account from
>>> one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent license for my
>>> client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You dont
>>> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i control
>>> our users and log the communication
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Slack
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>>>> To: Animal Farm 
>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>>>
>>>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites, what's
>>>> available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so I can send
>>>> the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>>>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im offers a
>>>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that there
>>>> was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Nate
>>>>
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services

[Josh Reynolds]

Slack, Ryver

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 4:19 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> We use the shit out of trillian connected to our openfire server. Spark
> with openfire works well but you can only be logged into your account from
> one device at a time, hence trillian. I bought a permanent license for my
> client for like 60 bucks, was worth it plus it retains images. You dont
> have to connect back to another server like we do, but this way i control
> our users and log the communication
>
> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:30 PM SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>
>> Slack
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:26 PM
>> To: Animal Farm 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: IM Services
>>
>> With the demise of AIM, and not being on any social media sites, what's
>> available for Instant messaging apps these days?  Basically so I can send
>> the boss Hyperlinks without having to do everything through email
>> while we're on an intercom call.It looks like Trillian.im offers a
>> service that is ad free for $2/user/mo  But I thought I saw that there
>> was a $10 minimum somewhere.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[Josh Reynolds]

It's gotta have the right MAC for sure. Also device identifiers I think,
cant remember. Like I said though, every few versions it seems like they
change something and your config will no longer work.

This is what config tools are for homie.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:56 PM George Skorup 
wrote:

> Yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Management and data VLANs.
> Management address from static to DHCP. I was thinking this would qualify
> as some pretty basic changes. Apparently not.
>
> We upgraded everything to 6.1.6. I set up an NSM5, downloaded the backup
> and stripped the device-specific stuff. Go import it and it says invalid.
> WTF. I don't know. I'll screw with it more tomorrow.
>
> On 4/11/2018 10:37 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> For those with simple configs it's probably fine.
>
> If you have several interfaces and vlans per CPE with a few bridges, it's
> more of a pain (from experience).
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:29 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> All the config file does is populate the listed fields. Anything not
>> listed it doesnt change. Thats why you have to apply it but you can edit it
>> still after loading it. Id pull a fresh config file from one of the units
>> and edit it, removing anything you dont want changed. It could just be a
>> change in a field name
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:26 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure how you would use a partial config... I think that it would
>>> just use defaults for anything that was missing.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:56 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno what some defaults are, and
>>>> there are things hidden in the config file that aren't in the webui.
>>>>
>>>> Config also seems to change things from time to time.
>>>>
>>>> Also config order is sometimes important depending on what you are
>>>> doing.
>>>>
>>>> (This is just what I remember from 5.2.1-5.8.x days)
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It should
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George Skorup 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or will airOS 6.1.x not take a
>>>>>> partial
>>>>>> config? I just want to change a couple things on several hundred
>>>>>> radios.
>>>>>> And no, I'm not interested in AirControl or UNMS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[Josh Reynolds]

For those with simple configs it's probably fine.

If you have several interfaces and vlans per CPE with a few bridges, it's
more of a pain (from experience).

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:29 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> All the config file does is populate the listed fields. Anything not
> listed it doesnt change. Thats why you have to apply it but you can edit it
> still after loading it. Id pull a fresh config file from one of the units
> and edit it, removing anything you dont want changed. It could just be a
> change in a field name
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 10:26 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure how you would use a partial config... I think that it would
>> just use defaults for anything that was missing.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:56 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>>> A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno what some defaults are, and
>>> there are things hidden in the config file that aren't in the webui.
>>>
>>> Config also seems to change things from time to time.
>>>
>>> Also config order is sometimes important depending on what you are doing.
>>>
>>> (This is just what I remember from 5.2.1-5.8.x days)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It should
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George Skorup 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or will airOS 6.1.x not take a
>>>>> partial
>>>>> config? I just want to change a couple things on several hundred
>>>>> radios.
>>>>> And no, I'm not interested in AirControl or UNMS.
>>>>>
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[Josh Reynolds]

I'd use ansible for this. There may even already be an ansible playbook for
it.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:56 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno what some defaults are, and there
> are things hidden in the config file that aren't in the webui.
>
> Config also seems to change things from time to time.
>
> Also config order is sometimes important depending on what you are doing.
>
> (This is just what I remember from 5.2.1-5.8.x days)
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> It should
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or will airOS 6.1.x not take a partial
>>> config? I just want to change a couple things on several hundred radios.
>>> And no, I'm not interested in AirControl or UNMS.
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] AirOS partial config?

[Josh Reynolds]

A partial config? Never tried it. Dunno what some defaults are, and there
are things hidden in the config file that aren't in the webui.

Config also seems to change things from time to time.

Also config order is sometimes important depending on what you are doing.

(This is just what I remember from 5.2.1-5.8.x days)

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:21 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> It should
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 9:10 PM George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> ePMP has spoiled me. Am I stupid, or will airOS 6.1.x not take a partial
>> config? I just want to change a couple things on several hundred radios.
>> And no, I'm not interested in AirControl or UNMS.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: TV Signal Strength Meter

[Josh Reynolds]

$29 on Amazon

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 11:49 AM Matt  wrote:

> Is there such a thing as a compact meter for OTA TV signal strength
> that does not cost a fortune?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Small Portable trencher

[Josh Reynolds]

A shovel? Push the shovel down, flip the grass on it's top. Continue for
length of run. Lay cable. Flip grass back over. Push down with foot.

You can't even tell the grass was disturbed when done

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 11:59 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> For these residential deals, we occasionally lose out on new customers
> because they dont want to trench cable themselves.
> For this purpose it really only need 4 to 8 inches, just to stay under the
> sod.
> Is there a device that attaches to a drill or sawzall? Maybe a chainsaw
> modified bar or a bucksaw trenching blade?
> Not looking to get into a whole trencher, just something that ideally
> would fit in the truck on a shelf
>

Re: [AFMUG] Rfelements

[Josh Reynolds]

They are great for stuff like 30/40Mhz wide, gps sync, put 4-6 on a pole in
a subdivision  or on a tower leg kinda thing.


If anybody thought they were for something else (ie long range), they
didn't read the data sheets.

Lightweight, low size, low wind load, perfectly circular pattern - great
spot beams. Good F/B ratio.

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 9:12 PM Robert  wrote:

> I recently did a couple of tests with RF horns.   I was hoping for a lot
> and was disappointed.   I was hoping that they could be colocated
> closer than regular sectors that I use and the crosstalk signal levels
> were just about the same as the shielded sectors.   As far as the
> signals at the CPE's they were pretty good but not amazingly better for
> as small as the target area got reduced to.
>
> On 4/10/18 6:43 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > Can i get some non fanboy real world on these guys? Btw, i hate facebook
> > groups almost as much as dslreports or the ubnt forums, this is
> > literally the only place to get legitimate product info.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Stolen credit card info

[Josh Reynolds]

Harder to do anymore with CCV and ~often~ billing address checks.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> In their defense (or maybe not), check the charges to see if there is a
> small-dollar amount charged just prior to the big charge. What we found out
> years ago is that credit card scammers will just randomly make up card
> numbers and "try it" with tiny charge amounts ($3 to $5). if it goes
> through, then they've found an active card number, and they will then hit it
> with something substantial (like $2000 or $3000 or more). So sometimes it's
> not you or your vendor, it's just a scammer getting lucky.
>
> -bp
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 1:21 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It was pretty eye opening that one time when I apparently had a passion
>> for Armani ?  suits in New York City
>> I've never even been to new york city...
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Brett A Mansfield
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2018 2:46 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Stolen credit card info
>>
>> In all honesty I have my suspicions of which one it was, but felt I’d let
>> people know here. I’m not too concerned as most banks catch this pretty fast
>> just as mine did. The only one I don’t think has anyone on this list has
>> been notified separately.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Brett A Mansfield
>>
>> > On Apr 4, 2018, at 1:26 PM,   wrote:
>> >
>> > This may be a glib/ignorant answer/opinion but I would point the finger
>> > that the smaller companies first.
>> > Have you notified these companies?
>> >
>> > -Original Message- From: Brett A Mansfield
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 4, 2018 1:24 PM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: [AFMUG] Stolen credit card info
>> >
>> > This is just an FYI and should not reflect poorly on the companies
>> > mentioned. All or even none of them may have been the cause. I’m sending
>> > this out just so people pay extra attention to their accounts and so the
>> > companies listed can verify their security.
>> >
>> > I have an account/card I use ONLY for purchasing equipment. This card is
>> > only two months old and has just been used by someone in the Czech 
>> > Republic.
>> >
>> > The ONLY places I’ve ever used this card at are the following websites:
>> >
>> > Streakwave.com
>> > Doubleradius.com
>> > Balticnetworks.com
>> > Flytechconputers.com
>> > EnduranceHardware.com
>> > Amazon.com
>> >
>> > All were used within the past two weeks. The fraudulent charges happened
>> > today. I encourage all to check their accounts and website security/virus
>> > protection.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you,
>> > Brett A Mansfield
>> >
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Asterisk

[Josh Reynolds]

What Adam said.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018, 3:08 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Put a private IP on the second interface and have the phones register to
> that one.
> I've done that before, and I don't think there was much more to it than
> that.  I think there's a listen= or bindaddress= line in one of the config
> files you may have to adjust.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 4/4/2018 3:38:46 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Asterisk
>
> How can you make asterisk use two eth interfaces so that all the phones
> are on a private internal interface and the world is on the other?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] new DNS

[Josh Reynolds]

Google is connected to what's important to Google. Cloudflares business
model, like any cdn, means it needs to be connected everywhere.

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018, 9:14 AM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Naw... not a router ID.
>
> traceroute to 1.1.1.1 (1.1.1.1), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
>   1  172.16.0.1 (172.16.0.1)  3.317 ms  0.878 ms  0.847 ms
>   2  10.200.90.85 (10.200.90.85)  1.016 ms  1.028 ms  0.986 ms
>   3  10.200.90.25 (10.200.90.25)  10.454 ms  17.965 ms  24.062 ms
>   4  10.200.90.33 (10.200.90.33)  21.325 ms  19.223 ms  20.039 ms
>   5  10.200.90.89 (10.200.90.89)  27.758 ms  19.306 ms  20.584 ms
>   6  173.246.229.73 (173.246.229.73)  32.198 ms  14.440 ms  17.491 ms
>   7  er0-nycmny.zitomedia.net (74.81.98.227)  39.302 ms  51.617 ms
> 38.379 ms
>   8  de-cix-new-york.as13335.net (206.130.10.31)  26.231 ms  32.837 ms
> 36.809 ms
>   9  1dot1dot1dot1.cloudflare-dns.com (1.1.1.1)  36.106 ms  27.082 ms
> 28.810 ms
>
> matt-hoppess-macbook-2:~ matth$ traceroute 172.16.0.21
> traceroute to 172.16.0.21 (172.16.0.21), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
>   1  172.16.0.21 (172.16.0.21)  3.248 ms  0.806 ms  0.650 ms
>
> The entry just wasn't cached locally.
>
> That being said, I'm impressed they seem to be incredibly connected --
> more so than Google.
>
> On 4/3/18 10:09 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> > Traceroute that. Look at the route for it. You might have used it for an
> > OSPF router ID.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2018, 9:04 AM Matt Hoppes
> >  > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
> >
> > So.
> >
> > 8.8.8.8
> > Query time: 40 msec
> >
> > 1.1.1.1
> > Query time: 2 msec
> >
> > 172.16.0.21
> > Query time: 30 msec
> >
> >
> > Wait... what?!?!  How is CLoudFlare faster than my own local caching
> > resolver?
> >
> > On 4/3/18 10:03 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >  > It's clearly not hard.  It's obviously not expensive. I'm already
> > doing
> >  > it and have been for years.  But it's more than $0.
> >  >
> >  > I've seen the geolocation issue in the past.  More recently I
> > tried to
> >  > demonstrate it to someone and it turned out that Google DNS and
> > our own
> >  > DNS gave us Netflix content from the same source.
> >  >
> >  > If I used someone else's DNS and that 3rd party went away, then
> there
> >  > are apparently 10 other "3rd parties" to choose from.  I
> > recognize the
> >  > point that it's a 3rd party and we don't want to rely on 3rd
> parties:
> >  > But can we honestly say that our DNS servers are more reliable
> than
> >  > Google or Cloudflare?
> >  >
> >  > I'm not shutting down the DNS servers today, I'm just trying to
> look
> >  > inward and analyze what we're doing and why.  Are we doing it
> > because it
> >  > actually makes sense or are we doing it because we've always done
> > it and
> >  > we can't imagine another way?
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -- Original Message --
> >  > From: "Justin Wilson" mailto:li...@mtin.net>
> > <mailto:li...@mtin.net <mailto:li...@mtin.net>>>
> >  > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com
> > <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> >  > Sent: 4/3/2018 8:48:33 AM
> >  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new DNS
> >  >
> >  >> You have your own DNS for one huge reason. GeoLocation for when
> it
> >  >> comes to Content Networks such as Netflix.  One of the
> > mechanisms they
> >  >> employ is using DNS Geolocation to serve you the closest
> > content.  Not
> >  >> only do they do a GeLocate on your IP, but some also do a check
> to
> >  >> make sure your DNS servers are coming from the same place as your
> >  >> customers. This is especially true if you or one of your
> > upstreams is
> >  >> peered with Netflix or someone on an exchange. Otherwise, if you
> are
> >  >> using Google or other DNS you may be in Kansas, and you might be
> >  >> getting content from Netflix out of California, when you could be
> >  >> getting it literally next door.  Makes the customer experience
> much
> >  >> better. There are

Re: [AFMUG] new DNS

[Josh Reynolds]

to:li...@packetflux.com>>
> >>> *Reply-To:*mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> >>> *Date:*Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 4:33 AM
> >>> *To:*af mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> >>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] new DNS
> >>> Because it's good for your customers, and it should take very little
> >>> time to set one up.
> >>> The main reason for this is so that websites serve data from the
> >>> closest server due to the way that DNS anycast works.
> >>> And, the biggest one - to have control over a critical piece of
> >>> infrastructure for your customers.  What happens if one of these
> >>> public DNS services go down and you have hundreds of customers
> >>> pointing at it?
> >>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 11:33 PM, Adam Moffett
> >>> mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>> Someone remind me again why I have my own recursive DNS.
> >>>> -- Original Message --
> >>>> From: "Josh Reynolds"
> >>>> mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
> >>>> To:af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
> >>>> Sent: 4/2/2018 3:22:57 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new DNS
> >>>>> Yes, bunch of discussions over the past few days on NANOG and some
> >>>>> of the vendor mailing lists.
> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 2:21 PM Travis Johnson
> >>>>> mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> https://gizmodo.com/how-to-speed-up-your-internet-and-protect-your-privacy-1824256587
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Faster and more private than Google or others. :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Travis
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> *Forrest Christian*/CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
> >>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> >>> forre...@imach.com<mailto:forre...@imach.com>|
> >>> http://www.packetflux.com <http://www.packetflux.com/>
> >>>
> >>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Austin

[Josh Reynolds]

Oh, you too are going to launch $10Bn worth of low orbit satellites?

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 7:34 PM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> Not for the disruptive service Im planning…
>
> From: Af  on behalf of "tpa...@ecpi.com" <
> tpa...@ecpi.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 at 4:58 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Austin
>
> Lol why? You don’t think we have enough competition?
>
> Tushar
>
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Apr 2, 2018, at 2:47 PM, Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>
> I would love to serve Austin!
>
> From: Af  on behalf of "tpa...@ecpi.com" <
> tpa...@ecpi.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 at 8:56 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Austin
>
> It is out of our service area.
> Sorry.
>
> Tushar
>
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> 
> On Mar 30, 2018, at 2:51 PM, Eric Markow  wrote:
>
> I called and unfortunately it's out of their service area.
>
> I did find one company, GHz Wireless, but they never answer their phone or
> respond to emails, and seem to have poor reviews. Anyone know them?
>
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Western Broadband in Austin Texas. Curiously, Austin is not listed as a
>> service city.
>>
>> http://www.westernbroadband.com/contact.php
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 3/30/2018 11:59 AM, Eric Markow wrote:
>>
>> Anyone have his contact info? You can email to eric.markow(at)gmail.com
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 11:31 AM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I was thinking Tushar...
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 30, 2018 12:23 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Austin
>>>
>>> Tushar???
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 11:21 AM Eric Markow 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone here service south Austin?

 Thanks,

 Eric

>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] new DNS

[Josh Reynolds]

If you guys aren't on NANOG, you really should be.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 2:50 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 4/2/18 12:43, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > Wonder how they got that IP address.
>
> APNIC has it and agreed to let cloudflare use it or something,
> apparently there's some upset about it not being a transparent process,
> but I don't follow APNIC happenings. I guess they felt left out from the
> public DNS resolver party.
>

Re: [AFMUG] new DNS

[Josh Reynolds]

It's not

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 2:24 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> You sure it's not an April's Fool gag?
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 1:21 PM Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>>
>> https://gizmodo.com/how-to-speed-up-your-internet-and-protect-your-privacy-1824256587
>>
>> Faster and more private than Google or others. :)
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] new DNS

[Josh Reynolds]

Yes, bunch of discussions over the past few days on NANOG and some of the
vendor mailing lists.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 2:21 PM Travis Johnson  wrote:

>
> https://gizmodo.com/how-to-speed-up-your-internet-and-protect-your-privacy-1824256587
>
> Faster and more private than Google or others. :)
>
> Travis
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT streaming

[Josh Reynolds]

To put that into perspective, that around double the viewership for most
years men's NCAA Final Four basketball.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 8:46 AM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Around 30 million just for Game of Thrones... So more than 30 million.
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 8:16 AM Dave  wrote:
>
>> Who in the world still watches HBO ?? LOL
>>
>>
>> On 04/01/2018 07:27 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> I just added Philo.� It has discovery.� $16/month.
>> And it has DVR.� Directvnow still has not launched DVR.�
>> �
>> I think it may be the best value.�
>> �
>> This should allow me to disconnect directvnow and slingtv.�
>> However I am not disconnecting slingtv until I have a low cost
>> alternative to adding HBO.
>> �
>> Philo has HBO as an investor and was supposed to be adding it shortly
>> after launch, but so far not happening.�
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT streaming

[Josh Reynolds]

Around 30 million just for Game of Thrones... So more than 30 million.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 8:16 AM Dave  wrote:

> Who in the world still watches HBO ?? LOL
>
>
> On 04/01/2018 07:27 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I just added Philo.� It has discovery.� $16/month.
> And it has DVR.� Directvnow still has not launched DVR.�
> �
> I think it may be the best value.�
> �
> This should allow me to disconnect directvnow and slingtv.�
> However I am not disconnecting slingtv until I have a low cost alternative
> to adding HBO.
> �
> Philo has HBO as an investor and was supposed to be adding it shortly
> after launch, but so far not happening.�
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT streaming

[Josh Reynolds]

Can get hbo via Amazon

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018, 7:27 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I just added Philo.  It has discovery.  $16/month.
> And it has DVR.  Directvnow still has not launched DVR.
>
> I think it may be the best value.
>
> This should allow me to disconnect directvnow and slingtv.
> However I am not disconnecting slingtv until I have a low cost alternative
> to adding HBO.
>
> Philo has HBO as an investor and was supposed to be adding it shortly
> after launch, but so far not happening.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Employee communication

[Josh Reynolds]

Each Bluetooth version brings a lot of changes in reliability, stability,
speed, power usage, etc.

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 9:16 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> We used to never be able to use bluetooth because alvarion fhss knocked it
> out
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 8:25 PM Rory Conaway  wrote:
>
>> Way too much noise outside.  Need boom mic as close to the mouth as
>> possible with a wind screen.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jon Lee
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2018 3:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee communication
>>
>>
>>
>> @Rory, you can also use a Bluetooth lapel mic.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>> Off-Grid Networks
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 31, 2018, 7:45 AM Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Very cool.  I’m going to check it out.  Along those lines, we have all of
>> our guys use blue-tooth headsets.  They either get Blue-Parrot or
>> Seinnheiser MB-Pros.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 31, 2018 6:51 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Employee communication
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello +1
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018, 12:53 PM Jon Lee  wrote:
>>
>> Just wanted to share something that has helped us out tremendously.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zello Walkie Talkie app (free)
>>
>> www.zello.com
>>
>> Android, iOS and even PC for dispatch.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very similar to the old Nextel system. You can talk one to one or one to
>> many.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps some of you guys out.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you want a demo. Look me up, KJ7ON (yeah I am an amateur radio nerd as
>> well)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>> Off-Grid Networks
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] metal roof mount

[Josh Reynolds]

That is NOT the website I thought you were sending people to for a moment...

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 3:57 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> https://www.perfect-10.tv/WebStore/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=8201
>
> Has anybody used these? do they fasten pretty well?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Linksys

[Josh Reynolds]

And they make a LOT of wisp market products...

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018, 10:01 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Foxconn is also building a $10 billion factory in Wisconsin...
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 8:01 AM, Harold Bledsoe 
> wrote:
>
>> Not to nitpick but Foxconn is actually a Taiwanese company.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 1:13 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not a big Warren Buffet fan be he had a pretty nice explanation
>>> about what happens when a nation sells off its assets to another country.
>>>
>>> Just more of a trend of Chinese "companies", as if there were such a
>>> thing, buying up all over the world.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018, 12:09 AM Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Granted, that's setting a pretty low bar though.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 11:00 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Back in the day it was much better than Belkin.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Jason McKemie
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 26, 2018 9:57 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Linksys
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I never really thought of Linksys as being a good thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, March 26, 2018,  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Cisco bought linksys. Screwed up a good thing. Belden bought linksys
>>>>>> all hell broke loose, making some of the worse products out there. I 
>>>>>> guess
>>>>>> it could only get better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Mar 26, 2018, at 8:46 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Cisco sold off Linksys to Belkin a few years back. Dunno bout wemo.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:42 PM, Chuck McCown 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> “Foxconn buys Belkin, Linksys, and Wemo”
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I thought Cisco bought Linksys years ago?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Linksys

[Josh Reynolds]

Cisco sold off Linksys to Belkin a few years back. Dunno bout wemo.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:42 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> “Foxconn buys Belkin, Linksys, and Wemo”
>
> I thought Cisco bought Linksys years ago?

Re: [AFMUG] List Delay

[Josh Reynolds]

Posting at 11:50 PM CST 20180321

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 6:12 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> On one of my most recent postings there was a 40 hour delay between posting
> and listing.

Re: [AFMUG] Test uno dos tres

[Josh Reynolds]

Test

On Mar 18, 2018 8:30 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> I posted something a while ago
>
> Jaime Solorza
>

Re: [AFMUG] handy dog proofing for service truck

[Josh Reynolds]

Where are dogs getting to the cable?

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> Being back in the grind now, Im finding installers just keep replacing cable
> on animal chews. Yesterday I had to take everything off a yagi and tapcon
> the pipe to a brick wall to protect cable from getting rechewed. when I was
> installer kept random scrap stuff and DS mounts to run cable through nice
> and ghetto when customers wouldnt screen off exposed areas.
>
> I have some liquidtight scrap that might be worth throwing in the van.
>
> this is all residential, we dont charge for service calls or incidentals, so
> i need something on the cheap to stock in the van that doesnt take up alot
> of real estate on the shelves.
>
> I had even considered rigid 1/2 conduit and a bender, but I doubt most techs
> weve had would be able to operate that

Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus

[Josh Reynolds]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyJXDdlD4jQ

"IN-DE GO" :)

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 7:45 AM, Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> It’s In Di Go. Like the color. Not In Dee Go. Like a butchered version of
> the six fingered man.
>
> On Mar 14, 2018, at 04:27, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> That's how it's pronounced...
>
> Maybe a regional thing?
>
> On Mar 11, 2018 2:02 PM, "Matt Hoppes" 
> wrote:
>
>> GTC does this too. I don’t know why it’s so hard.
>>
>> The company I used to work for was “Indigo Wireless”. They always say In
>> Dee Go.
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 14:50, Sterling Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> They are working well for us, and I have a horrible generic support DT,
>> lol!
>>
>>
>>
>> I have had zero complaints from my customers so far this year, so I think
>> they are doing well.
>>
>>
>>
>> The only feedback I’ve had is customers hear our company name pronounced
>> five different ways, even though the DT instructs the proper pronunciation.
>>
>>
>>
>> But it’s a made-up name so my customer are always confused on
>> pronunciation themselves.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 10, 2018 11:25 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus
>>
>>
>>
>> I would add that Layne’s service is only as good as the decision tree
>> that you provide to him.  The more detailed DT, the better the service will
>> be.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Layne Sisk
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 10, 2018 10:48 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to share some solid stats with the group.  Please see those
>> below.  The comment about a decline is hard to address without looking at
>> stats.  Kind of like the user that calls you and vaguely  says “My internet
>> seems slow” when you have stats that show they are getting more than they
>> are paying for.  We have hired a number of new people recently because we
>> have grown and have added a new office but as Justin said this is a slow
>> time of the year so we also took advantage of this time to get rid of some
>> of our weaker performers.  Here are the company wide stats for the past
>> week with some comments about them, I would stack these up against any call
>> center in the world.  Sorry if I come on strong, but as you all know this
>> is my baby and I care a lot about it just like you do about your networks.
>> I know we are not perfect, out of 6000 calls I am sure we made a mistake or
>> two and I am happy to address any individual issue directly, but I am
>> pretty proud of what we do.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *OFFICE STATS*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *SP*
>>
>> *GOAL*
>>
>> *Comment*
>>
>> *AVERAGE TALK TIME*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 0:11:05
>>
>> 0:10:00
>>
>> Down from over 13 min 2 months ago
>>
>> *  TOTAL TALK TIME VS SCHEDULED*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 69.94%
>>
>> 80%
>>
>> This is agent utilization
>>
>> *SURVEY SCORE*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 91.66%
>>
>> 95%
>>
>> 91.66% of callers would recommend the service That  is a number any
>> company would kill for
>>
>> *SURVEY TAKEN*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 20.57%
>>
>> 20%
>>
>> A full 20% of callers responded to our survey, that number is unheard of
>>
>> *TECH ESCALATION*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 39.31%
>>
>> 20%
>>
>> Higher escalation percentage this week because of the storms and
>> significant network outages
>>
>> *ESCALATION APPROVAL TIME*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 0:11:47
>>
>> 0:10:00
>>
>> Down from over 30 min 4 months ago
>>
>> *QA SCORE*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 92.05%
>>
>> 95%
>>
>> Happy to share our QA form with anyone who would like to see it
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Test test

[Josh Reynolds]

test

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Matt Hoppes
 wrote:
> Is this thing on? Messages seem to be being delayed by days.

Re: [AFMUG] The things in Slack...

[Josh Reynolds]

Hey, I'm the cause of that video!
;)

On Mar 14, 2018 3:11 PM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:

> Someone posted a link to this, "https://www.thewisp.com/pages/bjs";
>
> The page header is, "WISP Training Video for BJ's".
>
>
> Apparently I haven't been installing in the right neighborhoods.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus

[Josh Reynolds]

That's how it's pronounced...

Maybe a regional thing?

On Mar 11, 2018 2:02 PM, "Matt Hoppes" 
wrote:

> GTC does this too. I don’t know why it’s so hard.
>
> The company I used to work for was “Indigo Wireless”. They always say In
> Dee Go.
>
> On Mar 11, 2018, at 14:50, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
>
> They are working well for us, and I have a horrible generic support DT,
> lol!
>
>
>
> I have had zero complaints from my customers so far this year, so I think
> they are doing well.
>
>
>
> The only feedback I’ve had is customers hear our company name pronounced
> five different ways, even though the DT instructs the proper pronunciation.
>
>
>
> But it’s a made-up name so my customer are always confused on
> pronunciation themselves.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 10, 2018 11:25 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus
>
>
>
> I would add that Layne’s service is only as good as the decision tree that
> you provide to him.  The more detailed DT, the better the service will be.
>
>
>
> *From:* Layne Sisk
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 10, 2018 10:48 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Serverplus
>
>
>
> I would like to share some solid stats with the group.  Please see those
> below.  The comment about a decline is hard to address without looking at
> stats.  Kind of like the user that calls you and vaguely  says “My internet
> seems slow” when you have stats that show they are getting more than they
> are paying for.  We have hired a number of new people recently because we
> have grown and have added a new office but as Justin said this is a slow
> time of the year so we also took advantage of this time to get rid of some
> of our weaker performers.  Here are the company wide stats for the past
> week with some comments about them, I would stack these up against any call
> center in the world.  Sorry if I come on strong, but as you all know this
> is my baby and I care a lot about it just like you do about your networks.
> I know we are not perfect, out of 6000 calls I am sure we made a mistake or
> two and I am happy to address any individual issue directly, but I am
> pretty proud of what we do.
>
>
>
>
>
> *OFFICE STATS*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *SP*
>
> *GOAL*
>
> *Comment*
>
> *AVERAGE TALK TIME*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 0:11:05
>
> 0:10:00
>
> Down from over 13 min 2 months ago
>
> *  TOTAL TALK TIME VS SCHEDULED*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 69.94%
>
> 80%
>
> This is agent utilization
>
> *SURVEY SCORE*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 91.66%
>
> 95%
>
> 91.66% of callers would recommend the service That  is a number any
> company would kill for
>
> *SURVEY TAKEN*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 20.57%
>
> 20%
>
> A full 20% of callers responded to our survey, that number is unheard of
>
> *TECH ESCALATION*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 39.31%
>
> 20%
>
> Higher escalation percentage this week because of the storms and
> significant network outages
>
> *ESCALATION APPROVAL TIME*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 0:11:47
>
> 0:10:00
>
> Down from over 30 min 4 months ago
>
> *QA SCORE*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 92.05%
>
> 95%
>
> Happy to share our QA form with anyone who would like to see it
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *COMPANY STATS*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *SP*
>
> *GOAL*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *CALL WAIT TIME*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 0:01:52
>
> 2:00
>
> Less than 2 min wait time even though our SLA is less than 3
>
> *BILLABLE CALLS*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 6112
>
> 10,000
>
> Reflection of the slow season
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *ABANDONED TIME*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 0.37
>
> 2:00
>
> Outage recordings cause people to hang up once they hear the recording
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *CALLS TAKEN PER HOUR*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 4.10
>
> 5.45
>
> This is calls answered per worked hour
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Layne Sisk
>
> ServerPlus
>
> 801.426.8283, ext 102
>
>  
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png]
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png]
> 
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png]
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, March 09, 2018 10:30 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Serverplus
>
>
>
> Has anyone noted a consistent decline in quality with these guys, and a
> large number of different tech names in their tickets?
>
> Its almost looking like they outsourced their outsourcing.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OOB management port bridging MAC tables

[Josh Reynolds]

What the...

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> lol, i noticed that. I dont know how customers werent impacted since theyre
> all DHCP with 24 hour leases and we cut over yesterday.
>
> I feel dumb, so dumb Im wondering if I should identify as a woman.
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>>
>> In simplest terms you seem to running to long Ethernet cables to same
>> switch...
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Mar 5, 2018 5:36 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's called loopis destructusturn off management port on far side and
>>> see if that clears it up...
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>> On Mar 5, 2018 5:32 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

 scratch that. My powercode DHCP server is freaked out getting queries
 from both sides

 On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 5:44 PM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:
>
> I may be helmet here, but am I correct in assuming that OOB managment
> ports should not participate in bridging traffic across wireless links of
> any kind?
> this 2+0 has OOB on the radios, I have the management ports run into a
> switch on each side. Loop protection is kicking the ports on and off. The
> customer traffic is flowing over the wireless via LACP bonding in the same
> switch, but isolated via VLAN.
>
> I should not, under any circumstances see MAC addresses from the other
> side of a link via the management port should I? Im not only seeing the
> remote switch, but every mac in the MAC table from the remote switch. both
> sides have the OOB in ports 21 and 22, in the following, both switched 
> have
> port 22 blocked due to detected loop, but it flip flops back and forth
> between 21 and 22 when the detection timer expires. I havent had calls of
> any issues with customer traffic (both are independent DHCP subnets)
>
> A SIDE Switch MAC Address - 74:46:a0:e8:ed:00
>
> A SIDE MAC Table
>
> 38:ea:a7:bc:24:40 21   Learned
>
>
>
> B SIDE Switch MAC Address - 38:ea:a7:bc:24:40
>
> B SIDE MAC Table
>
> 74:46:a0:e8:ed:0021   Learned
>
>

>

Re: [AFMUG] Epmp 3000

[Josh Reynolds]

Ah so it's a 4x4? Okay, that makes sense for the mu-mimo increase then, if
under the right conditions.

On Mar 7, 2018 10:51 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> They recommend that you use the Cambium 4 port antenna. (of course)
>
> It will work with others but you will lose performance.
>
> You will get higher order modulations and some increase of throughput but
> not the full benefit of MUMIMO
>
> So, yeah, you can do that.  But they pointed out the cost of climbing the
> tower and installing the radio is going to be there, a new antenna is not
> that much more.
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 07, 2018 9:22 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Epmp 3000
>
> Are these things going to require a 4 port antenna, or can we just slap
> them on to the antennas we already have up?
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> Mu mimo AP should talk to 2 N customers at the same time
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Joe Novak > >
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 11:11 AM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Epmp 3000
>>
>> Mu-mimo will not work with n based radios, but besides that they will
>> work with the new AP is how I took it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2018 9:04 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Coming soon
>>>
>>> Roughly doubles available throughout on ap
>>>
>>> If I heard right won't work with elevate
>>>
>>> Ac based chipset
>>>
>>> Haven't heard frequencies or available dates yet
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my smartphone
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Epmp 3000

[Josh Reynolds]

I hate this claim, because that's not how mu-mimo works. It sacrifices
chains to talk to those multiple APs, so a 2x2 AP goes to 1x1 for 2 clients
@ 1x1. Same amount of bandwidth used.

On Mar 7, 2018 10:13 AM, "Gino A. Villarini"  wrote:

> Mu mimo AP should talk to 2 N customers at the same time
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Joe Novak 
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 at 11:11 AM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Epmp 3000
>
> Mu-mimo will not work with n based radios, but besides that they will work
> with the new AP is how I took it.
>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> On Mar 7, 2018 9:04 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>> Coming soon
>>
>> Roughly doubles available throughout on ap
>>
>> If I heard right won't work with elevate
>>
>> Ac based chipset
>>
>> Haven't heard frequencies or available dates yet
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my smartphone
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Security fence

[Josh Reynolds]

A border wall of that would cost you about $201,960,000 just for reference.

=)

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:39 PM,   wrote:
> All of the below.  Just don’t want to spend $25K for 1300 feet of fence.
>
>
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 3:59 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Security fence
>
> So are you looking for cheaper, more secure, or best value?
>
> No sane person would try to breach concertina wire.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=concertina+wire&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjYjrv808nZAhVElJQKHX33B_AQ_AUICygC&biw=1536&bih=759#spd=3258212414157725779
>
> Cheap and easy enough for a grunt to install.
> https://survivalblog.com/constructing-a-triple-strand-concertina-wire-obstacle-by-cpt-blackfox/
>
> Just a thought.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/28/2018 1:15:34 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT Security fence
>
>
> I need a security fence on some property where I store equipment and
> vehicles.
> Got a quote from a fence company.
> About $20/foot or more.  That was for chain link with barbed wire at the top
> and a couple of fancy gates.
>
> Camp Williams (Utah Natl Guard) and the nearby NSA facility has a fence made
> primarily out of hog wire.
> It looks to be about 7’ tall and super t bar fence posts.
>
> Then there are other fences that look like they are using some form of mini
> galvanized I beam.  Those are chain link.
>
> Looking for options.  If someone is hell bent on climbing a fence, the
> difference between chain link and hog wire is not much.
> Chain link is much more difficult to cut and slightly more difficult to
> climb.
>
> Opinions?

Re: [AFMUG] Leatherman

[Josh Reynolds]

Gerbers are shit. They have military contracts, so they survive.

I've had 3 gerbers and 3 Leatherman. My 3 gerbers all broke in Iraq.

The last 4 months there I picked up a new wave. I had an old wave for
probably a decade before it fell out of my pocket in the woods somewhere.

Anyway, I still have the 2nd wave. And a wingman.

Leatherman or bust. Great tools.

On Feb 22, 2018 10:06 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> Ive seen alot of variants, closest in quality was my buddies gerber.
> I never was satisfied with a pocket knife, then again i never had the
> skill my dad has with his old timer as a multitool.
> I think most people whos old man carried a single pocket knife only used
> it one time and didnt give it back for his pocket. Usually a pretty painful
> lesson to learn.
>
> On Feb 22, 2018 9:51 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> I have an Old Timer that is about 24 years old and I got it used...I
>> appreciate quality toolsI have lost every Leatherman within months of
>> buying one...
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2018 8:48 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:
>>
>>> I just finally retired my supertool 300, its been healthily beaten. This
>>> harsh sexy beast sacrifices many bits of iyself. So i picked up a wingman
>>> because a little bit less weight and i miss scissors from my first one.
>>> Plus its got a belt clip, the pouch on the supertool was worn and broken
>>> for over a year before i gave in and relegated to tool to my pocket to live
>>> with my tool.
>>> So i was looking at the warranty on the wingman, turns out thes bad
>>> mothers sport a 25 year warranty... 25 years.
>>>
>>> Its like getting a do over with my best friend knowing the supertool may
>>> get another ride on the pony. When it gets home i may have a party for it.
>>> This thing has installed and repaired a measurable percentage of the
>>> network. If i had tear ducts instead of hate valves, id do that wet eye
>>> shit that sallys do.
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI

[Josh Reynolds]

$250ish gets you a 6core ARM and fpga with 4 gig ports anymore

On Feb 22, 2018 7:42 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:

> They aren't cheap but you could always use an fpga.
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 7:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> No, I saw it, but I already had the Pi so I ignored it and hoped for the
>> best.
>> I tried it first with arduino.  Just not enough speed.  And it had the
>> jitter problem too.
>>
>> I have a method using three TTL/CMOS chips that is going to work... I
>> think...
>>
>> The only thing separating the gps disciplined signal and the T1 will be a
>> D flip flop and a few AND/NAND gates.  So that ought to get me super low
>> jitter.
>>
>> Trying for stratum I with rubidium hold-over isochronous performance at
>> the end of the day.  For cheap.
>>
>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 6:27 PM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI
>>
>> Ok, I think you missed this portion of my email last time:
>>
>>
>> *"I'm skeptical that you'll be able to generate a bitstream with enough
>> accuracy under Linux, without extreme programming measures.I'd suggest a
>> digilent chipkit wifire and the arduino ide for this.  You should be able
>> to bitbang at least a T1 with this processor (500mhz)"*
>>
>> Generally the raspberry pi is great for 'tiny server stuff', or 'user
>> interface' stuff, and the arduino and/or microcontrollers will work better
>> for what you're looking at, since there isn't an operating system in the
>> way.  All arduino really is is a c++ ide with some simplified libraries.
>>
>> The wifire product I mentioned is really a PIC32MZ dev board, optimized
>> for arduino.  If you've had enough of the arduino ide, you can download the
>> microchip ide and program it with a full development kit.
>>
>> Honestly for what you are talking about a EUSART in even a low end PIC
>> might be able to handle this.  If you program the EUSART into synchronous
>> mode you'll just have to stuff a byte into it every 8 bit times and it will
>> clock it out for you.  Not sure if the clock rate is adjustable enough for
>> you, but if you get a PIC with the NCO peripheral you might be able to
>> dynamically adjust the frequency enough to make it work.
>>
>> NCO app sheet:  http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/
>> 90003131A.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 3:48 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know how to get my program to run on bare metal?
>>>
>>> Or at the very least tell Linux that my program is the most important
>>> thing in the world and service it above all other things.
>>>
>>> I am trying to create a timing signal with the Pi.  It is doing it but
>>> the jitter is pretty bad.
>>>
>>> I have researched trying to use an interrupt but there is a pretty low
>>> limit on how many times per second you can fire a hardware interrupt.
>>> Too low for my application.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> 
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI

[Josh Reynolds]

No, latency is one reason Google is developing a new mobile OS.

On Feb 22, 2018 6:27 PM, "Robert"  wrote:

I believe this was a major part of the improvements in android


On 2/22/18 3:58 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

> Pretty sure you need  RTOS to accomplish this.That will get pretty close
> to bare metal.
>
> -bp
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 3:36 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Had the command syntax wrong.
> But got nice to work.  Have to sudo if you use negative nice numbers.
> It made zero difference in my jitter.  I went from 19 to –20 on nice
> and no change.
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 4:29 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI
>
> The problem is there is a crap ton of stuff out there that needs
> network sync.  And it all has a T1 as an input.
> But most T1 trunking circuits are getting replaced with SIP.
> So, I am building a cheap and dirty T1 signal generator that is GPS
> and rhubidium referenced.  The hard part is easy.  The easy part
> should be easy but all the T1 framing chips that used to exist no
> longer exist.
> The ones that are out there have massive CPU interfaces and tons of
> registers that need to get set to get them fired up and running
> Where is Exar when you need them
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 4:21 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI
>
> Tell whoever's got the T1 that 1967 is way behind us and get a new
> interface.
> Problem eliminated LOL
> -- Original Message --
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/22/2018 6:16:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI
>
>> I have to generate an alternate mark inversion signal on 1.544 MHz
>> with every 193rd bit following a t1 framing sequence.
>> Sure wish a 555 could do that.
>> *From:* Dave
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 4:10 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI
>>
>> Find a 555 timer ... I used many in the olden day when radioshacks
>> were king LOL!
>>
>>
>> On 02/22/2018 05:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am thinking of using some shift registers instead of using the
>>> PI output directly as the timing signal.
>>> Use the PI to load them.
>>> I love me some hardware design anyhow
>>> *From:* Colin Stanners
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:59 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI
>>>
>>> Other than setting the process priority, you may need a custom
>>> kernel. See
>>> https://medium.com/@metebalci/latency-of-raspberry-pi-3-on-s
>>> tandard-and-real-time-linux-4-9-kernel-2d9c20704495
>>> >> standard-and-real-time-linux-4-9-kernel-2d9c20704495>
>>>
>>> On Feb 22, 2018 4:48 PM,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone know how to get my program to run on bare metal?
>>> Or at the very least tell Linux that my program is the most
>>> important thing in the world and service it above all other
>>> things.
>>> I am trying to create a timing signal with the Pi.  It is
>>> doing it but the jitter is pretty bad.
>>> I have researched trying to use an interrupt but there is a
>>> pretty low limit on how many times per second you can fire a
>>> hardware interrupt.
>>> Too low for my application.
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Raspberry PI

[Josh Reynolds]

Well, first of all what is your program written in?

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 4:48 PM,   wrote:
> Anyone know how to get my program to run on bare metal?
>
> Or at the very least tell Linux that my program is the most important thing
> in the world and service it above all other things.
>
> I am trying to create a timing signal with the Pi.  It is doing it but the
> jitter is pretty bad.
>
> I have researched trying to use an interrupt but there is a pretty low limit
> on how many times per second you can fire a hardware interrupt.
> Too low for my application.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium repair times?

[Josh Reynolds]

I get some hilarious imagery off that.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 3:27 PM,   wrote:
> One of us is the sock puppet of the other.
>
> From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 2:22 PM
> To: af
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium repair times?
>
> It's going too be entertaining  when we figure out that Steve is Chuck's
> second personality.  After all we've never met Steve... and now this
> revelation about the meds.
>
> On Feb 20, 2018 2:06 PM,  wrote:
>
> Ya gots to ask yerself:  “self, think Chuck took his meds today”?
>
> From: Colin Stanners
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:58 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium repair times?
>
> Chuck, I seriously can't tell if you're serious or not.
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 2:54 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> They outsourced all repair work to Trango.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Tuesday, February 20,
>> 2018 1:42 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Cambium repair times?
>> How long does it usually take Cambium to repair something? I have an 820S
>> that failed under warranty waiting at their repair facility since December
>> 8th with no progress since then other than it was received. I've never had
>> anything repaired by them before.
>>
>> ~Seth
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector

[Josh Reynolds]

-22 F? My 2 years in Alaska were warmer than that! :)

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Speed and price look extremely impressive... but it's not rated to operate
> in cold weather (only down to -30 Celsius) therefore not an option for us
> in why-are-you-living-there central Canada.
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:47 PM, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:
>
>> Still everything on plain 802.11 or is tdma done?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mathew Howard
>> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 20. Februar 2018 19:45
>> *An:* af 
>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector
>>
>>
>>
>> Pricing isn't bad at all, the AP is only about $1k, which is actually
>> cheaper than a lot of 5ghz systems when you consider that it covers 360
>> degrees, and there aren't any other antennas involved. The clients are a
>> bit pricey though... ranging from around $300-$600... realistically,
>> probably around $500 for most customers.
>>
>> I have one sitting here ready to go up as soon as the weather is good
>> enough that I can get myself to climb up a tower... one of our service
>> techs lives close enough to the tower that I'm planning on putting it on to
>> work at 60ghz, so that should be a good test.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:28 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Nice.  How does the price compare to other PMP solutions?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:25 AM
>>
>> *To:* af
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector
>>
>>
>>
>> It is dual frequency. It's got a built in 5ghz omni as well as the three
>> 60ghz radio... it actually has a 2.4ghz radio in there to, although I can't
>> imagine actually using that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:43 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> Please forgive me for being ignorant about this product, but is it a dual
>> freq with fail over to 5.8GHz during 60 GHz fades/outages or do you put up
>> the 60 GHz and hope for the best?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:29 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.5 gbps OTA per sector, 3 inside … 1.1-1.3 gbps real per sector
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Af  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 
>> *Date: *Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 1:13 PM
>> *To: *"af@afmug.com" 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector
>>
>>
>>
>> What's the beamwidth on this?
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Gino A. Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>>
>> President
>>
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>>
>> President
>>
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector

[Josh Reynolds]

Guys stop Mike can only handle so much.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Mathew Howard 
wrote:

> SFP+, even.
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> And it has a SFP port!
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Harold Bledsoe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bingo!
>>>
>>> You can use the 2.4GHz for management, for hotspot, for something like
>>> "cablewifi" like the cable guys do.  You can even use it to broadcast an
>>> ssid that says "Gigabit Internet Call 555-1212"
>>>
>>> If you are deploying it in a city, use it to entice the city to give you
>>> access to vertical assets - you'll give city wide free WiFi in return on
>>> 2.4GHz.
>>>
>>> Lot's of possibilities there...
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:25 PM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It is dual frequency. It's got a built in 5ghz omni as well as the
 three 60ghz radio... it actually has a 2.4ghz radio in there to, although I
 can't imagine actually using that.

 On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:43 AM,  wrote:

> Please forgive me for being ignorant about this product, but is it a
> dual freq with fail over to 5.8GHz during 60 GHz fades/outages or do you
> put up the 60 GHz and hope for the best?
>
> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector
>
> 2.5 gbps OTA per sector, 3 inside … 1.1-1.3 gbps real per sector
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 at 1:13 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector
>
> What's the beamwidth on this?
>
> On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>> [image: aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]
>>
>>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
> [image: aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]
>
>

>

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT buy?

[Josh Reynolds]

I wish I still had all my $9/share stock :(

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:
> I bought some early this AM.. Now i’m up 7%.
>
>
>
> On Feb 20, 2018, at 10:21 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> I like what UBNT could be more than what they are. That said, they are
> no Google or Apple.
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Timothy Steele
>  wrote:
>
> Buy what stock? UBNT is a early Google or or apple I would get stock if I
> could lots of very cool new stuff coming out soon I would hold on to the
> stock for a year
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018, 9:59 AM Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT buy?

[Josh Reynolds]

I like what UBNT could be more than what they are. That said, they are
no Google or Apple.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Timothy Steele
 wrote:
> Buy what stock? UBNT is a early Google or or apple I would get stock if I
> could lots of very cool new stuff coming out soon I would hold on to the
> stock for a year
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018, 9:59 AM Jon Langeler 
> wrote:
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Jon Langeler
>> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] its here, Ignitenet 60ghz trisector

[Josh Reynolds]

#baller

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:07 AM, Gino A. Villarini 
wrote:

>
>
>
> *Gino A. Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] To good to be true... it was...

[Josh Reynolds]

The same way the Flat Earth Society has members "all around the globe".

*cough* :)

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Roland Houin  wrote:
> how do you orbit a flat earth.
>
> roland
>
>> I would love it if they were able to get it in orbit.
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>> No, I don't think so. I read somewhere that it wouldn't launch when they
>> tried.
>>
>> But wait... you're trying to tell me the Earth really isn't flat??
>>
>> On Feb 18, 2018 1:30 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Did they ever get their rocket to fly to prove Earth is flat? Forget
>>> physics, math and science...trust your eyes
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>> On Feb 18, 2018 12:20 PM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:
>>>
>>> You sound like a paranoid flat earther :)
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:12 AM, Robert  wrote:

 Could be phoning home, but now I've got s/w trying to phone into my DNS
 servers...

 On 2/18/18 8:04 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> You sure it is not just the camera phoning home for a software update?
>
> -Original Message- From: Robert
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 8:43 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] To good to be true... it was...
>
> Frick'n peoples republic. So I bought a couple of those $300 PTZ
> cameras. & my monitoring system saw some attempts to intrude from
> inside my network. So I am now on the alert and when the cameras start
> up I see some traffic when there shouldn't be. It's the cameras
> reaching out from the 10 net... To this address
>
> Now I have to consider part of my core compromised...
>
> whois 112.124.0.188
>
> #
> # ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
> # available at: https://www.arin.net/whois_tou.html
> #
> # If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
> # https://www.arin.net/public/whoisinaccuracy/index.xhtml
> #
>
>
> #
> # Query terms are ambiguous. The query is assumed to be:
> # "n 112.124.0.188"
> #
> # Use "?" to get help.
> #
>
> #
> # The following results may also be obtained via:
> #
>
>
> https://whois.arin.net/rest/nets;q=112.124.0.188?showDetails=true&showARIN=fals
> e&showNonArinTopLevelNet=false&ext=netref2
> #
>
> NetRange: 112.0.0.0 - 112.255.255.255
> CIDR: 112.0.0.0/8
> NetName: APNIC-112
> NetHandle: NET-112-0-0-0-1
> Parent: ()
> NetType: Allocated to APNIC
> OriginAS:
> Organization: Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC)
> RegDate: 2008-05-26
> Updated: 2010-07-30
> Comment: This IP address range is not registered in the ARIN
> database.
> Comment: For details, refer to the APNIC Whois Database via
> Comment: WHOIS.APNIC.NET or
> http://wq.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl
> Comment: ** IMPORTANT NOTE: APNIC is the Regional Internet
> Registry
> Comment: for the Asia Pacific region. APNIC does not operate
> networks
> Comment: using this IP address range and is not able to
> investigate
> Comment: spam or abuse reports relating to these addresses. For
> more
> Comment: help, refer to
> http://www.apnic.net/apnic-info/whois_search2/abuse-and-spamming
> Ref: https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-112-0-0-0-1
>
> ResourceLink: http://wq.apnic.net/whois-search/static/search.html
> ResourceLink: whois.apnic.net
>
> OrgName: Asia Pacific Network Information Centre
> OrgId: APNIC
> Address: PO Box 3646
> City: South Brisbane
> StateProv: QLD
> PostalCode: 4101
> Country: AU
> RegDate:
> Updated: 2012-01-24
> Ref: https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/APNIC
>
> ReferralServer: whois://whois.apnic.net
> ResourceLink: http://wq.apnic.net/whois-search/static/search.html
>
> OrgTechHandle: AWC12-ARIN
> OrgTechName: APNIC Whois Contact
> OrgTechPhone: +61 7 3858 3188
> OrgTechEmail: search-apnic-not-a...@apnic.net
> OrgTechRef: https://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/AWC12-ARIN
>
> OrgAbuseHandle: AWC12-ARIN
> OrgAbuseName: APNIC Whois Contact
> OrgAbusePhone: +61 7 3858 3188
> OrgAbuseEmail: search-apnic-not-a...@apnic.net
> OrgAbuseRef: https://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/AWC12-ARIN
>
>
> #
> # ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
> # available at: https://www.arin.net/whois_tou.html
> #
> # If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
> # https://www.arin.net/public/whoisinaccuracy/index.xhtml
> #
>
> % [whois.apnic.net]
> % Whois data copyright terms http://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html
>
> % Information related to '112.124.0.0 - 112.127.255.255'
>
> % Abuse contact for '112.124.0.0 - 112.127.255.255' is 'i...@cnnic.cn'
>
> inetnum: 112.124.0.0 - 112.127.255.255
> netname: ALISOFT
> descr: A

Re: [AFMUG] To good to be true... it was...

[Josh Reynolds]

I would love it if they were able to get it in orbit.

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:25 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> No, I don't think so. I read somewhere that it wouldn't launch when they
> tried.
>
> But wait... you're trying to tell me the Earth really isn't flat??
>
> On Feb 18, 2018 1:30 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:
>>
>> Did they ever get their rocket to fly to prove Earth is flat?  Forget
>> physics, math and science...trust your eyes
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Feb 18, 2018 12:20 PM, "TJ Trout"  wrote:
>>
>> You sound like a paranoid flat earther :)
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:12 AM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
>>> Could be phoning home, but now I've got s/w trying to phone into my DNS
>>> servers...
>>>
>>> On 2/18/18 8:04 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

 You sure it is not just the camera phoning home for a software update?

 -Original Message- From: Robert
 Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2018 8:43 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: [AFMUG] To good to be true... it was...

 Frick'n peoples republic.   So I bought a couple of those $300 PTZ
 cameras.   & my monitoring system saw some attempts to intrude from
 inside my network.   So I am now on the alert and when the cameras start
 up I see some traffic when there shouldn't be.   It's the cameras
 reaching out from the 10 net...   To this address

 Now I have to consider part of my core compromised...

 whois 112.124.0.188

 #
 # ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
 # available at: https://www.arin.net/whois_tou.html
 #
 # If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
 # https://www.arin.net/public/whoisinaccuracy/index.xhtml
 #


 #
 # Query terms are ambiguous.  The query is assumed to be:
 # "n 112.124.0.188"
 #
 # Use "?" to get help.
 #

 #
 # The following results may also be obtained via:
 #

 https://whois.arin.net/rest/nets;q=112.124.0.188?showDetails=true&showARIN=false&showNonArinTopLevelNet=false&ext=netref2
 #

 NetRange:   112.0.0.0 - 112.255.255.255
 CIDR:   112.0.0.0/8
 NetName:APNIC-112
 NetHandle:  NET-112-0-0-0-1
 Parent:  ()
 NetType:Allocated to APNIC
 OriginAS:
 Organization:   Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC)
 RegDate:2008-05-26
 Updated:2010-07-30
 Comment:This IP address range is not registered in the ARIN
 database.
 Comment:For details, refer to the APNIC Whois Database via
 Comment:WHOIS.APNIC.NET or
 http://wq.apnic.net/apnic-bin/whois.pl
 Comment:** IMPORTANT NOTE: APNIC is the Regional Internet
 Registry
 Comment:for the Asia Pacific region. APNIC does not operate
 networks
 Comment:using this IP address range and is not able to
 investigate
 Comment:spam or abuse reports relating to these addresses. For
 more
 Comment:help, refer to
 http://www.apnic.net/apnic-info/whois_search2/abuse-and-spamming
 Ref:https://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-112-0-0-0-1

 ResourceLink:  http://wq.apnic.net/whois-search/static/search.html
 ResourceLink:  whois.apnic.net

 OrgName:Asia Pacific Network Information Centre
 OrgId:  APNIC
 Address:PO Box 3646
 City:   South Brisbane
 StateProv:  QLD
 PostalCode: 4101
 Country:AU
 RegDate:
 Updated:2012-01-24
 Ref:https://whois.arin.net/rest/org/APNIC

 ReferralServer:  whois://whois.apnic.net
 ResourceLink:  http://wq.apnic.net/whois-search/static/search.html

 OrgTechHandle: AWC12-ARIN
 OrgTechName:   APNIC Whois Contact
 OrgTechPhone:  +61 7 3858 3188
 OrgTechEmail:  search-apnic-not-a...@apnic.net
 OrgTechRef:https://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/AWC12-ARIN

 OrgAbuseHandle: AWC12-ARIN
 OrgAbuseName:   APNIC Whois Contact
 OrgAbusePhone:  +61 7 3858 3188
 OrgAbuseEmail:  search-apnic-not-a...@apnic.net
 OrgAbuseRef:https://whois.arin.net/rest/poc/AWC12-ARIN


 #
 # ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
 # available at: https://www.arin.net/whois_tou.html
 #
 # If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
 # https://www.arin.net/public/whoisinaccuracy/index.xhtml
 #

 % [whois.apnic.net]
 % Whois data copyright termshttp://www.apnic.net/db/dbcopyright.html

 % Information related to '112.124.0.0 - 112.127.255.255'

 % Abuse contact for '112.124.0.0 - 112.127.255.255' is 'i...@cnnic.cn'

 inetnum:112.124.0.0 - 112.127.255.255
 netname:ALISOFT
 descr:  Aliyun Computing Co., LTD
 descr:  5F, Builing D, the West Lake Internat

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

And the cpes are very cheap...

On Feb 13, 2018 2:58 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

> At the moment I would wait to see what this LTU is all about. Should soon
> arrive at US Beta store. An airfiber class radio mounted to horns may give
> a real boost. There would be a lot capacity even using them at smaller
> Channels. They will use power below 10W and will be much cheaper than 450m
> so you could install a 360 degree cluster which you might densify at the
> direction where most customers live. Using an EP-S16 you could aggregate
> them to 10GE and feed them with a Licensed gear right up there. You only
> need to bring 48V DC up to the tower.
>
>
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Josh Reynolds
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2018 09:34
> > An: af@afmug.com
> > Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
> >
> > I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.
> >
> > For greenfield? Probably not.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup
> >  wrote:
> > > One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the
> > > throughput based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs in
> the
> > same frame.
> > > But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right
> > > conditions. And you don't have to visit a single customer site. And
> > > instead of pointing 3x 20MHz channels the same direction, you need
> > > only one. Plus there's 30 and 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just
> another
> > tool in the toolbox.
> > >
> > > On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan"
> > >> :)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
> > >>>
> > >>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds
> > >>> 
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to
> > >>>> back frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett 
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the
> > >>>>> clients evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take
> > >>>>> advantage of the MU-MIMO.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is
> > >>>>> 64qam).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with
> > >>>>> regular
> > >>>>> 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would
> > >>>>> need 3 APs each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> win, win, win.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 2 cents
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -sean
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds
> > >>>>> 
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients
> > >>>>>> are short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> It's a niche of a niche.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all,
> > >>>>>> I'm just saying it's not the second coming like people make it
> > >>>>>> out to be.)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett 
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Then by all means don’t deploy an

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

I agree, it makes sense if you already have a cambium network on 450.

For greenfield? Probably not.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:42 AM, George Skorup  wrote:
> One 450m = two 450i in cost (roughly), but delivers 3-4x the throughput
> based on real-world results. Yes, it *can* talk to 7 SMs in the same frame.
> But even Cambium said 3-4 is realistic. Maybe 5 in the right conditions. And
> you don't have to visit a single customer site. And instead of pointing 3x
> 20MHz channels the same direction, you need only one. Plus there's 30 and
> 40MHz support. Like Sean said, just another tool in the toolbox.
>
> On 2/13/2018 1:26 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan" :)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
>>> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
>>>
>>> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to back
>>>> frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the clients
>>>>> evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take advantage of the
>>>>> MU-MIMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is
>>>>> 64qam).
>>>>>
>>>>> it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with
>>>>> regular
>>>>> 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would need 3
>>>>> APs
>>>>> each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
>>>>>
>>>>> win, win, win.
>>>>>
>>>>> but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 cents
>>>>>
>>>>> -sean
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients are
>>>>>> short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a niche of a niche.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all, I'm
>>>>>> just saying it's not the second coming like people make it out to be.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take a
>>>>>>> chill
>>>>>>> pill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world
>>>>>>> environment,
>>>>>>> earning me real world dollars and conserving much needed spectrum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right
>>>>>>> conditions
>>>>>>> the 450m delivers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers bud
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -sean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let's break this down a bit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
>>>>>>>>> *shakes head*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spr

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

I was saying one direction IS 90 degrees in the "standard tower plan" :)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:17 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> how else would you suggest building a tower?!?!
>
> friends don't let friends use omni's ;-)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:15 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>>
>> If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to back
>> frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> > actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the clients
>> > evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take advantage of the
>> > MU-MIMO.
>> >
>> > we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is 64qam).
>> >
>> > it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with
>> > regular
>> > 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would need 3
>> > APs
>> > each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
>> >
>> > win, win, win.
>> >
>> > but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
>> >
>> > 2 cents
>> >
>> > -sean
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients are
>> >> short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.
>> >>
>> >> It's a niche of a niche.
>> >>
>> >> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all, I'm
>> >> just saying it's not the second coming like people make it out to be.)
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> >> > Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take a
>> >> > chill
>> >> > pill.
>> >> >
>> >> > I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world
>> >> > environment,
>> >> > earning me real world dollars and conserving much needed spectrum.
>> >> >
>> >> > It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right
>> >> > conditions
>> >> > the 450m delivers.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers bud
>> >> >
>> >> > -sean
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Let's break this down a bit.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
>> >> >> > *shakes head*
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
>> >> >> > (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
>> >> >> > timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the
>> >> >> > AP
>> >> >> > (like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up
>> >> >> > getting
>> >> >> > reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
>> >> >> > even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
>> >> >> > costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
>> >> >> > elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
>> >> >> > system like this... so only decent in very dense situations.
>> >> >> > That's a
>> >> >> > unique niche.
>> >> >> >
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

If you do the standard 4xAP so you can do 2 channels and back to back
frequency reuse, 90 degrees is one direction...

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> actually you don't want them all in one direction, you want the clients
> evenly spread in a 90* swath so that you can take advantage of the MU-MIMO.
>
> we have clients connected out to 8 miles running in 6x (which is 64qam).
>
> it actually saves on tower rent because to do the same thing with regular
> 450 APs (which we were prior to deploying the 450m's) you would need 3 APs
> each using 20Mhz so 60Mhz total of spectrum used.
>
> win, win, win.
>
> but i also wouldn't install them at every tower.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -sean
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:58 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients are
>> short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.
>>
>> It's a niche of a niche.
>>
>> (I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all, I'm
>> just saying it's not the second coming like people make it out to be.)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> > Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take a chill
>> > pill.
>> >
>> > I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world environment,
>> > earning me real world dollars and conserving much needed spectrum.
>> >
>> > It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right
>> > conditions
>> > the 450m delivers.
>> >
>> > Cheers bud
>> >
>> > -sean
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce that
>> >> down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Let's break this down a bit.
>> >> >
>> >> > Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
>> >> > *shakes head*
>> >> >
>> >> > Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
>> >> > (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
>> >> > timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in
>> >> > the
>> >> > same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the AP
>> >> > (like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead to
>> >> > cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up getting
>> >> > reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking a
>> >> > hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
>> >> > even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
>> >> > costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
>> >> > elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
>> >> > system like this... so only decent in very dense situations. That's a
>> >> > unique niche.
>> >> >
>> >> > So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
>> >> > (450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).
>> >> >
>> >> > 30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually streaming.
>> >> > Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
>> >> > gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
>> >> > most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous. Let's
>> >> > take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume that
>> >> > maybe 70% of those 80 customers is doing something like that, and
>> >> > that's probably a generous number. 56 customers. So 56 customers x
>> >> > 8Mbps = 448Mbps. On a 20Mhz channel? Wait, this doesn't seem to work
>> >> > out!
>> >> >
>> >> > Soo 1024 QAM on a 20MHz channel gives you 250Mbps, very roughly.
>> >> > If you're optimistic about modern patterns, you're between an 80/20
>> >> > and a 60/40 Download/Upload ratio on a split GPS synced system.
>> >> >
>> >> > 80/20 = 200Mbps Down, 50Mbps Up
>> >&

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm just saying it doesn't make sense, unless all your clients are
short range, in all one direction, and tower rent is costly.

It's a niche of a niche.

(I'm not saying it is a bad product, I'm not saying that at all, I'm
just saying it's not the second coming like people make it out to be.)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> Then by all means don’t deploy any 450m’s josh.  Geeze dude take a chill
> pill.
>
> I’m just stating what I have on my network in a real world environment,
> earning me real world dollars and conserving much needed spectrum.
>
> It’s not the right tool for every situation, BUT under the right conditions
> the 450m delivers.
>
> Cheers bud
>
> -sean
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:46 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce that
>> down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>> > Let's break this down a bit.
>> >
>> > Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore?
>> > *shakes head*
>> >
>> > Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
>> > (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
>> > timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in the
>> > same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the AP
>> > (like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead to
>> > cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up getting
>> > reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking a
>> > hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
>> > even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
>> > costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
>> > elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
>> > system like this... so only decent in very dense situations. That's a
>> > unique niche.
>> >
>> > So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
>> > (450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).
>> >
>> > 30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually streaming.
>> > Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
>> > gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
>> > most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous. Let's
>> > take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume that
>> > maybe 70% of those 80 customers is doing something like that, and
>> > that's probably a generous number. 56 customers. So 56 customers x
>> > 8Mbps = 448Mbps. On a 20Mhz channel? Wait, this doesn't seem to work
>> > out!
>> >
>> > Soo 1024 QAM on a 20MHz channel gives you 250Mbps, very roughly.
>> > If you're optimistic about modern patterns, you're between an 80/20
>> > and a 60/40 Download/Upload ratio on a split GPS synced system.
>> >
>> > 80/20 = 200Mbps Down, 50Mbps Up
>> > 60/40 = 150 Down, 100Mbps Up
>> >
>> > Let's say for the sake of argument that you're in the 80/20 camp,
>> > giving you 200Mbps to work with in above perfect conditions, gives you
>> > 3.57 Mbps per subscriber. Roughly 4M/sub, good for 480p streaming.
>> >
>> > That's a very expensive platform for that kind of throughput and
>> > subscriber count with such limitations in range and needed a "perfect
>> > storm" of client distribution and data patterns to really take
>> > advantage of. With working GPS in all modern platforms, I would be
>> > hard pressed to not use an additional 20mhz channel if available, or
>> > just cut the channel width in half to 10MHz each, and put up 4 Mimosas
>> > or 4 Gen2 Prism radios and have far more than 4x the possible
>> > subscriber account, improved tx/rx efficiency, improved range
>> > (increasing distance and SNR in many situations), and greatly reduced
>> > cost.
>> >
>> > Again, I'm far more excited about the 4x increase in spectral
>> > efficiency via OFDMA that doesn't cause you to cut down on tx/rx
>> > chains for multi-client transmission (costing your range, per client
>> > snr, and per-client throughput in the process). MU-MIMO is and will
>> > always be a niche hack that never lived up to what was promised.
>

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

Further note: You can see I did those calcs at 1024QAM, so reduce that
down the 256QAM for closer to real numbers :)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:42 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> Let's break this down a bit.
>
> Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore? *shakes 
> head*
>
> Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
> (physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
> timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in the
> same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the AP
> (like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead to
> cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up getting
> reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking a
> hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
> even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
> costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
> elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
> system like this... so only decent in very dense situations. That's a
> unique niche.
>
> So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
> (450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).
>
> 30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually streaming.
> Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
> gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
> most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous. Let's
> take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume that
> maybe 70% of those 80 customers is doing something like that, and
> that's probably a generous number. 56 customers. So 56 customers x
> 8Mbps = 448Mbps. On a 20Mhz channel? Wait, this doesn't seem to work
> out!
>
> Soo 1024 QAM on a 20MHz channel gives you 250Mbps, very roughly.
> If you're optimistic about modern patterns, you're between an 80/20
> and a 60/40 Download/Upload ratio on a split GPS synced system.
>
> 80/20 = 200Mbps Down, 50Mbps Up
> 60/40 = 150 Down, 100Mbps Up
>
> Let's say for the sake of argument that you're in the 80/20 camp,
> giving you 200Mbps to work with in above perfect conditions, gives you
> 3.57 Mbps per subscriber. Roughly 4M/sub, good for 480p streaming.
>
> That's a very expensive platform for that kind of throughput and
> subscriber count with such limitations in range and needed a "perfect
> storm" of client distribution and data patterns to really take
> advantage of. With working GPS in all modern platforms, I would be
> hard pressed to not use an additional 20mhz channel if available, or
> just cut the channel width in half to 10MHz each, and put up 4 Mimosas
> or 4 Gen2 Prism radios and have far more than 4x the possible
> subscriber account, improved tx/rx efficiency, improved range
> (increasing distance and SNR in many situations), and greatly reduced
> cost.
>
> Again, I'm far more excited about the 4x increase in spectral
> efficiency via OFDMA that doesn't cause you to cut down on tx/rx
> chains for multi-client transmission (costing your range, per client
> snr, and per-client throughput in the process). MU-MIMO is and will
> always be a niche hack that never lived up to what was promised.
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> Being able to load a 450m AP with 80 subs and deliver 30mbps service to all
>> of them at peak Netflix time in a 20mhz channel without breaking a sweat is
>> worth every penny.
>>
>> But it’s one tool in the tool box and isn’t the best solution for every
>> deployment.
>>
>> 2 cents
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:32 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>>
>>> The more I dig into MU-MIMO, the more I realize it's not all that great.
>>>
>>> I am far more excited by the 9 client simultaneous transmissions in
>>> 802.11ax via OFDMA.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> > 450 still does a few things that ePMP doesn't.
>>> > Plus there's that 14 chain MU-MIMO thing..ePMP will probably never
>>> > have
>>> > something like that.
>>> > UI is still sluggish on ePMP.
>>> >
>>> > On the other hand ePMP has gotten so many feature improvements over
>>> > these
>>> > past few years that it's gotten really hard to argue with the value it
>>> > provides.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- Original Message --
>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

Let's break this down a bit.

Firstly, what outdoor PTMP platform is really using WiFi anymore? *shakes head*

Mu-MIMO only works if the clients are sufficiently spread apart
(physically), and their tx/rx windows can fit into almost the same
timeframe. Any degradation in signal of one client that ends up in the
same window as other clients reduces the overall capacity of the AP
(like in many other situations). It can, in some situations, lead to
cumulative transfer windows where overall throughput ends up getting
reduced as the rx/tx hold time for the other clients end up taking a
hit in efficiency. This is one of the few failings of MU-MIMO, not
even taking into account "massive" systems like 14x14 that end up
costing quite a bit in overall power budget due to the number of
elements, further meaning that your range is severely limited in a
system like this... so only decent in very dense situations. That's a
unique niche.

So, 80 clients. That's a pretty average number for a modern system
(450, Mimosa, AC Prism Gen2).

30Mbps per client... okay, but most customers are actually streaming.
Let's throw another margin on top of that and say a few Mbps for
gaming. 10Mbps is a nice round number. Now, that data gets sent in
most services in bursts and buffered, so it's not continuous. Let's
take that average number down to about 8 Mbps. Now let's assume that
maybe 70% of those 80 customers is doing something like that, and
that's probably a generous number. 56 customers. So 56 customers x
8Mbps = 448Mbps. On a 20Mhz channel? Wait, this doesn't seem to work
out!

Soo 1024 QAM on a 20MHz channel gives you 250Mbps, very roughly.
If you're optimistic about modern patterns, you're between an 80/20
and a 60/40 Download/Upload ratio on a split GPS synced system.

80/20 = 200Mbps Down, 50Mbps Up
60/40 = 150 Down, 100Mbps Up

Let's say for the sake of argument that you're in the 80/20 camp,
giving you 200Mbps to work with in above perfect conditions, gives you
3.57 Mbps per subscriber. Roughly 4M/sub, good for 480p streaming.

That's a very expensive platform for that kind of throughput and
subscriber count with such limitations in range and needed a "perfect
storm" of client distribution and data patterns to really take
advantage of. With working GPS in all modern platforms, I would be
hard pressed to not use an additional 20mhz channel if available, or
just cut the channel width in half to 10MHz each, and put up 4 Mimosas
or 4 Gen2 Prism radios and have far more than 4x the possible
subscriber account, improved tx/rx efficiency, improved range
(increasing distance and SNR in many situations), and greatly reduced
cost.

Again, I'm far more excited about the 4x increase in spectral
efficiency via OFDMA that doesn't cause you to cut down on tx/rx
chains for multi-client transmission (costing your range, per client
snr, and per-client throughput in the process). MU-MIMO is and will
always be a niche hack that never lived up to what was promised.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> Being able to load a 450m AP with 80 subs and deliver 30mbps service to all
> of them at peak Netflix time in a 20mhz channel without breaking a sweat is
> worth every penny.
>
> But it’s one tool in the tool box and isn’t the best solution for every
> deployment.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -sean
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:32 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> The more I dig into MU-MIMO, the more I realize it's not all that great.
>>
>> I am far more excited by the 9 client simultaneous transmissions in
>> 802.11ax via OFDMA.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> > 450 still does a few things that ePMP doesn't.
>> > Plus there's that 14 chain MU-MIMO thing..ePMP will probably never
>> > have
>> > something like that.
>> > UI is still sluggish on ePMP.
>> >
>> > On the other hand ePMP has gotten so many feature improvements over
>> > these
>> > past few years that it's gotten really hard to argue with the value it
>> > provides.
>> >
>> >
>> > -- Original Message --
>> > From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Sent: 2/12/2018 8:27:56 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>> >
>> > The UI server was probably the worst I have ever seen.
>> >
>> > So, less than 25 subs per site, what speed packages do you sell to those
>> > 25?
>> >
>> > Packetflux GPS sync.
>> >
>> > From: Joe Novak
>> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 5:20 PM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>> >
>> > W

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

You have 2.5G ports on that AP do you?

Fascinating.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> Being able to load a 450m AP with 80 subs and deliver 30mbps service to all
> of them at peak Netflix time in a 20mhz channel without breaking a sweat is
> worth every penny.
>
> But it’s one tool in the tool box and isn’t the best solution for every
> deployment.
>
> 2 cents
>
> -sean
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:32 PM Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>>
>> The more I dig into MU-MIMO, the more I realize it's not all that great.
>>
>> I am far more excited by the 9 client simultaneous transmissions in
>> 802.11ax via OFDMA.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> > 450 still does a few things that ePMP doesn't.
>> > Plus there's that 14 chain MU-MIMO thing..ePMP will probably never
>> > have
>> > something like that.
>> > UI is still sluggish on ePMP.
>> >
>> > On the other hand ePMP has gotten so many feature improvements over
>> > these
>> > past few years that it's gotten really hard to argue with the value it
>> > provides.
>> >
>> >
>> > -- Original Message --
>> > From: "Chuck McCown" 
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Sent: 2/12/2018 8:27:56 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>> >
>> > The UI server was probably the worst I have ever seen.
>> >
>> > So, less than 25 subs per site, what speed packages do you sell to those
>> > 25?
>> >
>> > Packetflux GPS sync.
>> >
>> > From: Joe Novak
>> > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 5:20 PM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>> >
>> > What didn't you like about it? The interface came a long way since the
>> > early
>> > days of EPMP. We've got quite a bit deployed. A lot of people are having
>> > weird GPS situations come up with the on-board GPS, we have this problem
>> > once in a while too. Our packetflux sites are rock solid though. That is
>> > assuming density isn't more then 25 per AP, because then I don't exactly
>> > have enough experience with it. Most of our APs are sitting right around
>> > 25
>> > customers, and according to airtime we still have quite a bit of room.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Jaime Solorza
>> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I separated frequencies to three I found cleanest on AFx5s...On Rockets
>> >> and Powerbeams I choose one frequency and shut off the rest on APs and
>> >> on
>> >> PowerBeams I only use two...this method has worked well since August of
>> >> 2017
>> >> when I replaced all the radios on this network and have had to change
>> >> them
>> >> since.  Two of the WISPs live in Fabens and work with us on issues.
>> >> The
>> >> other one from El Paso uses my services once in a while and works with
>> >> us as
>> >> well.  Texas Gas put up allot of 5GHz units around Fabens but still no
>> >> issues. I used larger dishes at Wells and lift stations as well.
>> >>
>> >> Jaime Solorza
>> >>
>> >> On Feb 12, 2018 4:50 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Two AF5x on same tower, One AP on second tower 20 ft away...all other
>> >>> radios within 4 mile radius...
>> >>>
>> >>> Jaime Solorza
>> >>>
>> >>> On Feb 12, 2018 4:43 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> All on the same tower, right?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> From: Jaime Solorza
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 4:41 PM
>> >>>> To: Animal Farm
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yes..I have two AF5X links as PTP and 25 radios all in 5 GHz off 4
>> >>>> APs
>> >>>> in Fabens, Texas sharing spectrum with 3 WISPs...no issues...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jaime Solorza
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Feb 12, 2018 4:32 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Talking to a friend that wants to build a small wisp.  He is about
>> >>>>> 5.5
>> >>>>> miles from a backbone connection.  I would suggest AF5X to him but
>> >>>>> he is
>> >>>>> gonna want to use 5 GHz for his wisp I presume.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Can an AF5X and some 5 GHz cambium (or others) access points
>> >>>>> peacefully
>> >>>>> coexist on a tower?
>> >>>>> Very rural area.  Not expecting much interference other than home
>> >>>>> routers.
>> >
>> >

Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

[Josh Reynolds]

The more I dig into MU-MIMO, the more I realize it's not all that great.

I am far more excited by the 9 client simultaneous transmissions in
802.11ax via OFDMA.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 450 still does a few things that ePMP doesn't.
> Plus there's that 14 chain MU-MIMO thing..ePMP will probably never have
> something like that.
> UI is still sluggish on ePMP.
>
> On the other hand ePMP has gotten so many feature improvements over these
> past few years that it's gotten really hard to argue with the value it
> provides.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/12/2018 8:27:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>
> The UI server was probably the worst I have ever seen.
>
> So, less than 25 subs per site, what speed packages do you sell to those 25?
>
> Packetflux GPS sync.
>
> From: Joe Novak
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 5:20 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp
>
> What didn't you like about it? The interface came a long way since the early
> days of EPMP. We've got quite a bit deployed. A lot of people are having
> weird GPS situations come up with the on-board GPS, we have this problem
> once in a while too. Our packetflux sites are rock solid though. That is
> assuming density isn't more then 25 per AP, because then I don't exactly
> have enough experience with it. Most of our APs are sitting right around 25
> customers, and according to airtime we still have quite a bit of room.
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>>
>> I separated frequencies to three I found cleanest on AFx5s...On Rockets
>> and Powerbeams I choose one frequency and shut off the rest on APs and on
>> PowerBeams I only use two...this method has worked well since August of 2017
>> when I replaced all the radios on this network and have had to change them
>> since.  Two of the WISPs live in Fabens and work with us on issues.  The
>> other one from El Paso uses my services once in a while and works with us as
>> well.  Texas Gas put up allot of 5GHz units around Fabens but still no
>> issues. I used larger dishes at Wells and lift stations as well.
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 4:50 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Two AF5x on same tower, One AP on second tower 20 ft away...all other
>>> radios within 4 mile radius...
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 4:43 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

 All on the same tower, right?

 From: Jaime Solorza
 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 4:41 PM
 To: Animal Farm
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mini wisp

 Yes..I have two AF5X links as PTP and 25 radios all in 5 GHz off 4 APs
 in Fabens, Texas sharing spectrum with 3 WISPs...no issues...

 Jaime Solorza

 On Feb 12, 2018 4:32 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> Talking to a friend that wants to build a small wisp.  He is about 5.5
> miles from a backbone connection.  I would suggest AF5X to him but he is
> gonna want to use 5 GHz for his wisp I presume.
>
> Can an AF5X and some 5 GHz cambium (or others) access points peacefully
> coexist on a tower?
> Very rural area.  Not expecting much interference other than home
> routers.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Josh Reynolds]

If you're looking to do a few houses per mile, it's very likely that fiber
doesn't make sense at all.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking
> at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line
> down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then
> I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses
> per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
>
> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't
> seeming to work out for me.
>
> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON
> some day if I want to.
>
> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years
> of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can
> put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as
> far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> A few reasons...
>
> Port cost is still fairly high.
>
> More splicing.
>
> More fiber required.
>
> Larger chassis required.
>
> More power required.
>
> More battery backup required.
>
> Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity
> in most places.
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
>> Zhone is different.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
>>> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
>>> which.  ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be
>>> anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>>>
>>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
>>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>>>
>>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
>>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Josh Reynolds]

A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity
in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
>
> *From:* Chuck Hogg
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
> Zhone is different.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
>> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
>> which.  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
>> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>>
>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>>
>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

[Josh Reynolds]

Why are you walking away from Alphion? I'm curious because we had our own
issues.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
> Zhone is different.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
>> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
>> which.  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
>> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>>
>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>>
>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Josh Reynolds]

Except in the case of the licenses, that is done by the federal government
- a non business entity.

Not sure license fees with the FCC are up for negotiation, unless you have
your own army of lobbyists.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 3:24 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps
> you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your
> customers.  Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple
> price.
>
> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and
> buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for
> gas.  Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making
> tires, but can certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in
> recent memory the dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining
> the license plate too.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
>
> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated
> to the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they
> have such an opinion. and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in
> that context ...
>
> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering
> the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing
> to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions,
> unless they are backed up to the reason why.
>
> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
> everyone . FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products
> shine in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone
> has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..
>
> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a
> little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is,
> this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help
> you in  gaining  a better understanding of what is the difference one can
> expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment
> region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain
> zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide,
> not an absolute ref  ).
>
> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being
> high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination
> etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...
>
> :)
>
> Happy Weekend.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about
> the 5ghz stuff
>
> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>>
>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain
>> region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and
>> tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im
>> mercan) but some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6
>> miles, I dont care about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you
>> get into the higher frequencies yout rain zone, it really matters.
>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on
>> th market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally
>> nothing Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier
>> classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else.
>> You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (air

Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

[Josh Reynolds]

We had a lot of 4 mile+ links on AF24's that worked perfectly in ALASKA on
the coast.

Some places have more rain/hr than others.

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 5:11 PM, Adair Winter 
wrote:

> AF24 is only going to be 5 9's reliable to about 1-2 miles depending on
> your rain zone.
> for 2-4 miles you could use 23Ghz (way more EIRP than 24Ghz)
> 4-8 miles 18Ghz
> 8-20 miles 11 Ghz
> and anything longer than that 6Ghz. unless you can mount really big dishes
> for 11.
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 5:05 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> For 6-10 miles 24 ghz its way out of the question.  Stick to 11 ghz.
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of David Coudron <
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com>
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 6:57 PM
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>>
>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
>> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.   We have
>> been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
>> couple of years.   Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are
>> starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.   We’d like to make
>> the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for
>> that.   The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes
>> the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we
>> think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as the design
>> tools tell us.   For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product
>> line, we know it pretty well and have all the management tools in place for
>> it.   For 24 GHz we’d likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.   We
>> have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don’t have much
>> familiarity with any other options outside of AirFiber.  Here is where we
>> see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
>>
>>
>>
>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
>>
>>1. Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the
>>license and require less babysitting for interference
>>2. Should support longer links, but that isn’t a big consideration
>>for us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the
>>HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
>>3. Little less susceptible to rain fade
>>
>>
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>>1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost
>>associated with it
>>2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
>>applying for the license
>>3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>>4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the
>>HD)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:
>>
>>1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all
>>links
>>2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
>>3. Higher throughput on the HD
>>
>>
>>
>> Cons:
>>
>>1. Unlicensed.  Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
>>links now might have noise later
>>2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, although
>>this isn’t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti
>>products
>>3. Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:
>>
>>1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels if
>>you see other noise out there?   We have been looking but are finding it
>>tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be 
>> able
>>to move to other channels.
>>2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic
>>across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?   Seems like a well
>>planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but
>>looking for some real world experience.
>>3. Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the
>>ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino A. Villarini*
>> President
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave

[Josh Reynolds]

State controlling private industry?

Fascinating.

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> What should really happen law wise, is that the state (Utah in this case)
> approve a group of content filtering companies for end users.
>
> Then mandate AT MOST that the ISP allow/offer at least one of those up to
> customers as a certified filtering option.
>
>
>
> Again, not mandatory, but as viable options that are semi-pushed from the
> ISP side, still for profit.
>
>
>
> It’s just too much and too variant to have to mandate the ISP do any kind of
> filtering ‘mid-stream’ style.
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 9:30 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Content filtering - Trustwave
>
>
>
> Unrelated to Chuck's thread, we started talking internally about offering
> content filtering as a value add.
>
>
>
> An initial conversation with Trustwave seemed promising, and I'm supposed to
> have a follow up to discuss tech details later.
>
>
>
> But does anybody still do this?  Is there still consumer interest?  How much
> are/were you selling it for?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn ..... (filtering)

[Josh Reynolds]

If you look at the rest of the world, many seem to believe the US has
this really weird Puritanical view of the world where gory violence is
100% okay, but you must be at least 18 years old to see a naked human
being.

And they're not wrong.

On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> who is filtering the analog mediums in this world? they no longer call it
> "sex ed" because its now health ed and no longer is black and white science,
> more soft core porn. Driving down any road where theres any one if fifty
> billion "protests" going on, pussy hats, signs filled with vulgarity, women
> wearing boxes with handholes to finger them through for sexual assault,
> apparently its now a teachers sport to have orgies with students. women in
> restauraints flopping the feedbags out and making sure everyone looks before
> feeding their babies instead of just dropping a shoulder blanket, parades
> full of cross dressing porn acts, and my personal favorite, our airforce
> drawing huge penises in the sky (heh).. the world is gone to hell
>
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 2:26 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> Well, not really trying to force religious ideas on the population, just
>> religious ideals.
>>
>> The legislation is attempting to force ISPs to offer an in-house filtering
>> product.
>>
>> Hopefully the bigger ISPs will fight it off.  We have an exemption for the
>> smaller ISPs.
>>
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 1:19 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn . (filtering)
>>
>> Escape religious persecution in England to com to America. Establish new
>> Mormon religion. Escape religious persecution in all kinds of places to
>> finally settle in Missouri and Utah. Attempt to force religious ideas on
>> population.
>>
>> Fucking. Morons.
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2018 10:23 AM,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Proposed legislation in Utah.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:04 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn . (filtering)
>>>
>>> Where did this post come from? I need some backstory here.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:07 AM,   wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Based on all your comments (thank you), I sent the following to the
>>>> legislative working group:
>>>> (You guys helped me look smarter than I am ).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Some random thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> If you are going to an HTTPS site, it is all encrypted.  If you are
>>>> attempting to analyze a flow of traffic HTTPS traffic looks the same to
>>>> us
>>>> whether it is porn or online banking.
>>>>
>>>> Do we also block Bit Torrent?
>>>> XBox Grand Theft Auto
>>>> Any game with online chat.  Scrub online chat during games?
>>>> All game servers
>>>> Twitter
>>>> Instagram
>>>> Youtube
>>>> News outlets
>>>> Facebook
>>>> Email
>>>> Instant messaging
>>>> Periscope
>>>> Streaming
>>>> FTP
>>>> IRC
>>>>
>>>> The lowly ping facility has a space for payload.  I could send porn via
>>>> pings if I wanted.
>>>>
>>>> What is defined as harmful content?  Medical, artistic, Bible readings?
>>>> Genesis 19, 29 etc etc.
>>>> Language, if so what language?  Bare shoulders. Knees?
>>>> Curtains blowing in the breeze.
>>>>
>>>> How about what I consider pornographic music lyrics.
>>>> Do we have to police music.  Police Pandora.
>>>>
>>>> There are always ways around.
>>>> For every block there is a proxy or VPN that will get you around it.
>>>>
>>>> Filters can give parents a false sense of security.  Filters are
>>>> gimmicks.
>>>> Snake oil.
>>>> But we do offer them.  Not home grown.  They are 3rd party.
>>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn ..... (filtering)

[Josh Reynolds]

Escape religious persecution in England to com to America. Establish new
Mormon religion. Escape religious persecution in all kinds of places to
finally settle in Missouri and Utah. Attempt to force religious ideas on
population.

Fucking. Morons.

On Feb 7, 2018 10:23 AM,  wrote:

> Proposed legislation in Utah.
>
> -Original Message----- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:04 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn . (filtering)
>
> Where did this post come from? I need some backstory here.
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:07 AM,   wrote:
>
>> Based on all your comments (thank you), I sent the following to the
>> legislative working group:
>> (You guys helped me look smarter than I am ).
>>
>>
>>
>> Some random thoughts.
>>
>> If you are going to an HTTPS site, it is all encrypted.  If you are
>> attempting to analyze a flow of traffic HTTPS traffic looks the same to us
>> whether it is porn or online banking.
>>
>> Do we also block Bit Torrent?
>> XBox Grand Theft Auto
>> Any game with online chat.  Scrub online chat during games?
>> All game servers
>> Twitter
>> Instagram
>> Youtube
>> News outlets
>> Facebook
>> Email
>> Instant messaging
>> Periscope
>> Streaming
>> FTP
>> IRC
>>
>> The lowly ping facility has a space for payload.  I could send porn via
>> pings if I wanted.
>>
>> What is defined as harmful content?  Medical, artistic, Bible readings?
>> Genesis 19, 29 etc etc.
>> Language, if so what language?  Bare shoulders. Knees?
>> Curtains blowing in the breeze.
>>
>> How about what I consider pornographic music lyrics.
>> Do we have to police music.  Police Pandora.
>>
>> There are always ways around.
>> For every block there is a proxy or VPN that will get you around it.
>>
>> Filters can give parents a false sense of security.  Filters are gimmicks.
>> Snake oil.
>> But we do offer them.  Not home grown.  They are 3rd party.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn ..... (filtering)

[Josh Reynolds]

NVM, I see it now...

Whoever says this stuff needs to be ripped from office or position,
kicking and screaming. Not only do they not understand technology, but
they have no idea how the real world works outside of their bubble.

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> Where did this post come from? I need some backstory here.
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:07 AM,   wrote:
>> Based on all your comments (thank you), I sent the following to the
>> legislative working group:
>> (You guys helped me look smarter than I am ).
>>
>>
>>
>> Some random thoughts.
>>
>> If you are going to an HTTPS site, it is all encrypted.  If you are
>> attempting to analyze a flow of traffic HTTPS traffic looks the same to us
>> whether it is porn or online banking.
>>
>> Do we also block Bit Torrent?
>> XBox Grand Theft Auto
>> Any game with online chat.  Scrub online chat during games?
>> All game servers
>> Twitter
>> Instagram
>> Youtube
>> News outlets
>> Facebook
>> Email
>> Instant messaging
>> Periscope
>> Streaming
>> FTP
>> IRC
>>
>> The lowly ping facility has a space for payload.  I could send porn via
>> pings if I wanted.
>>
>> What is defined as harmful content?  Medical, artistic, Bible readings?
>> Genesis 19, 29 etc etc.
>> Language, if so what language?  Bare shoulders. Knees?
>> Curtains blowing in the breeze.
>>
>> How about what I consider pornographic music lyrics.
>> Do we have to police music.  Police Pandora.
>>
>> There are always ways around.
>> For every block there is a proxy or VPN that will get you around it.
>>
>> Filters can give parents a false sense of security.  Filters are gimmicks.
>> Snake oil.
>> But we do offer them.  Not home grown.  They are 3rd party.
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Porn ..... (filtering)

[Josh Reynolds]

Where did this post come from? I need some backstory here.

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:07 AM,   wrote:
> Based on all your comments (thank you), I sent the following to the
> legislative working group:
> (You guys helped me look smarter than I am ).
>
>
>
> Some random thoughts.
>
> If you are going to an HTTPS site, it is all encrypted.  If you are
> attempting to analyze a flow of traffic HTTPS traffic looks the same to us
> whether it is porn or online banking.
>
> Do we also block Bit Torrent?
> XBox Grand Theft Auto
> Any game with online chat.  Scrub online chat during games?
> All game servers
> Twitter
> Instagram
> Youtube
> News outlets
> Facebook
> Email
> Instant messaging
> Periscope
> Streaming
> FTP
> IRC
>
> The lowly ping facility has a space for payload.  I could send porn via
> pings if I wanted.
>
> What is defined as harmful content?  Medical, artistic, Bible readings?
> Genesis 19, 29 etc etc.
> Language, if so what language?  Bare shoulders. Knees?
> Curtains blowing in the breeze.
>
> How about what I consider pornographic music lyrics.
> Do we have to police music.  Police Pandora.
>
> There are always ways around.
> For every block there is a proxy or VPN that will get you around it.
>
> Filters can give parents a false sense of security.  Filters are gimmicks.
> Snake oil.
> But we do offer them.  Not home grown.  They are 3rd party.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Movie Review (moviepass)

[Josh Reynolds]

Man you go to the movies a lot :P

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 10:57 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:
>
> Hostiles.  Wow.  Prepare yourself before you go in that one.  Not really
> blood and gore but a storyline that'll tug at your
> heart from the first scene.
>
> Movies I have seen that I probably would not have seen without moviepass
> lately:
>
> The Greatest Showman
> The Commuter? (might have seen it anyway)
> Hostiles
>
> Movies I have seen that I would have seen anyway:
>
> The Post
> 12 Strong
> The Darkest Hour
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Josh Reynolds]

Multiple streaming devices, gaming, home fileserver / NAS, small VM
cluster, and some VoIP. There's also a bit of 10G fiber through the house...

On Feb 1, 2018 4:17 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> Nobody's saying you're wrong, but aren't you kind of overbuilding your
> home WiFi?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/1/2018 3:54:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>
> Again, last time, people need to stop looking for "the most powerful long
> range AP" :)
>
> It doesn't matter if the wireless device can hear the AP, it matters that
> the mobile device can talk to the AP with a respectable signal level.
>
> Remember, you don't want a bunch of low signal devices bringing overall
> capacity down. You don't want your APs to hear nearby APs. You want good TX
> AND RX signal on each device. My UniFi APs are actually set to not let
> devices maintain connection below a -74. I overlap APs accordingly, only
> only have 2 using 2.4GHz at all (set to lower power). Everything else is
> 5GHz.
>
> I can walk out to the street, walk way out to the street behind my barn,
> and I have coverage everywhere. My APs in the front of the property see the
> APs in the back with around an -84 to -88 depending. Also covers from
> basement to second floor.
>
> If I upgrade an AP, devices instantly roam to another nearby AP and don't
> drop their stream or sessions.
>
> On Feb 1, 2018 11:27 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> That's certainly true.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Dan Parrish" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:25:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>
>> More gain at the AP doesn't help hidden node problems between handsets.
>>
>> --dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/2018 11:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> I'd suggest more *Tx Power* at the AP doesn't help with the tiny
>> handset/laptop.  More gain ought to.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Dan Parrish" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com"  
>> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:21:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>
>> I agree that the square original Unifi AC PRO model wasn't the best
>> "value," but I used several of them across the street just fine. Was about
>> 200 feet through at least two exterior stucco walls, so seemed pretty good.
>>
>> More gain at the AP doesn't change the physics of the (assumed) handset
>> having a tiny antenna with awful radiation patterns. For this reason, I
>> don't believe in "long-range" access points nowadays. Where it makes sense,
>> try to place two or more access points closer to your usage areas instead
>> of one centrally-located one. The days of one access point in the middle of
>> the warehouse are over, IMO.
>>
>> --dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/2018 1:18 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>
>> I'm talking about the first ever unifi AC ap, it was junk.
>>
>> You had to have line of site to connect to the stupid thing (almost), but
>> seriously like 15ft range @ 5ghz, maybe 25ft @ 2.4ghz
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes - I can confirm that the new-ish Lites are 802.3af.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a bunch of the UAP-AC-LITE (802.11ac, 2x2, dual band) which are
>>>> like $79. The ones I have are 24VDC gigabit only. Have heard that the
>>>> newest shipping version of the same model does support 802.3af power now,
>>>> which is convenient. Don't quite understand how TJ wasn't happy with them
>>>> being a "flop".
>>>>
>>>> If you want a properly set up Unifi controller virtual machine or
>>>> physical system on a network, it does take a bit of Linux knowledge to do
>>>> it right, and ensure that it can be continually updated.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Josh Baird 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't
>>>>>> seamlessly roam right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
>>>>>>> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
>>>>>>> version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the 
>>>>>>> coverage is
>>>>>>> not very good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the best option currently for the longest range most
>>>>>>> reliable ceiling mount AP available?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Josh Reynolds]

Yeah, type of customer you don't want as a rule of thumb. :)

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> They sure sound needy.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, February 1, 2018 5:30:18 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>
> The design was created to meet the needs of the owner.
>
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Nobody's saying you're wrong, but aren't you kind of overbuilding your
>> home WiFi?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/1/2018 3:54:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>
>> Again, last time, people need to stop looking for "the most powerful long
>> range AP" :)
>>
>> It doesn't matter if the wireless device can hear the AP, it matters that
>> the mobile device can talk to the AP with a respectable signal level.
>>
>> Remember, you don't want a bunch of low signal devices bringing overall
>> capacity down. You don't want your APs to hear nearby APs. You want good TX
>> AND RX signal on each device. My UniFi APs are actually set to not let
>> devices maintain connection below a -74. I overlap APs accordingly, only
>> only have 2 using 2.4GHz at all (set to lower power). Everything else is
>> 5GHz.
>>
>> I can walk out to the street, walk way out to the street behind my barn,
>> and I have coverage everywhere. My APs in the front of the property see the
>> APs in the back with around an -84 to -88 depending. Also covers from
>> basement to second floor.
>>
>> If I upgrade an AP, devices instantly roam to another nearby AP and don't
>> drop their stream or sessions.
>>
>> On Feb 1, 2018 11:27 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>>
>>> That's certainly true.
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Dan Parrish" 
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:25:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>>
>>> More gain at the AP doesn't help hidden node problems between handsets.
>>>
>>> --dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2018 11:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd suggest more *Tx Power* at the AP doesn't help with the tiny
>>> handset/laptop.  More gain ought to.
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Dan Parrish" 
>>> To: "af@afmug.com"  
>>> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:21:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>>
>>> I agree that the square original Unifi AC PRO model wasn't the best
>>> "value," but I used several of them across the street just fine. Was about
>>> 200 feet through at least two exterior stucco walls, so seemed pretty good.
>>>
>>> More gain at the AP doesn't change the physics of the (assumed) handset
>>> having a tiny antenna with awful radiation patterns. For this reason, I
>>> don't believe in "long-range" access points nowadays. Where it makes sense,
>>> try to place two or more access points closer to your usage areas instead
>>> of one centrally-located one. The days of one access point in the middle of
>>> the warehouse are over, IMO.
>>>
>>> --dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2018 1:18 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm talking about the first ever unifi AC ap, it was junk.
>>>
>>> You had to have line of site to connect to the stupid thing (almost),
>>> but seriously like 15ft range @ 5ghz, maybe 25ft @ 2.4ghz
>>>
>>> [image:

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Josh Reynolds]

The design was created to meet the needs of the owner.

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Nobody's saying you're wrong, but aren't you kind of overbuilding your
> home WiFi?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Reynolds" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/1/2018 3:54:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>
> Again, last time, people need to stop looking for "the most powerful long
> range AP" :)
>
> It doesn't matter if the wireless device can hear the AP, it matters that
> the mobile device can talk to the AP with a respectable signal level.
>
> Remember, you don't want a bunch of low signal devices bringing overall
> capacity down. You don't want your APs to hear nearby APs. You want good TX
> AND RX signal on each device. My UniFi APs are actually set to not let
> devices maintain connection below a -74. I overlap APs accordingly, only
> only have 2 using 2.4GHz at all (set to lower power). Everything else is
> 5GHz.
>
> I can walk out to the street, walk way out to the street behind my barn,
> and I have coverage everywhere. My APs in the front of the property see the
> APs in the back with around an -84 to -88 depending. Also covers from
> basement to second floor.
>
> If I upgrade an AP, devices instantly roam to another nearby AP and don't
> drop their stream or sessions.
>
> On Feb 1, 2018 11:27 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:
>
>> That's certainly true.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Dan Parrish" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:25:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>
>> More gain at the AP doesn't help hidden node problems between handsets.
>>
>> --dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/2018 11:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> I'd suggest more *Tx Power* at the AP doesn't help with the tiny
>> handset/laptop.  More gain ought to.
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Dan Parrish" 
>> To: "af@afmug.com"  
>> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:21:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>
>> I agree that the square original Unifi AC PRO model wasn't the best
>> "value," but I used several of them across the street just fine. Was about
>> 200 feet through at least two exterior stucco walls, so seemed pretty good.
>>
>> More gain at the AP doesn't change the physics of the (assumed) handset
>> having a tiny antenna with awful radiation patterns. For this reason, I
>> don't believe in "long-range" access points nowadays. Where it makes sense,
>> try to place two or more access points closer to your usage areas instead
>> of one centrally-located one. The days of one access point in the middle of
>> the warehouse are over, IMO.
>>
>> --dan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/2018 1:18 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>
>> I'm talking about the first ever unifi AC ap, it was junk.
>>
>> You had to have line of site to connect to the stupid thing (almost), but
>> seriously like 15ft range @ 5ghz, maybe 25ft @ 2.4ghz
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes - I can confirm that the new-ish Lites are 802.3af.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a bunch of the UAP-AC-LITE (802.11ac, 2x2, dual band) which are
>>>> like $79. The ones I have are 24VDC gigabit only. Have heard that the
>>>> newest shipping version of the same model does support 802.3af power now,
>>>> which is convenient. Don't quite understand how TJ wasn't happy with them
>>>> being a "flop".
>>>>
>>>> If you want a properly set up Unifi controller virtual machine or
>>>> physical system on a network, it does take a bit of Linux knowledge to do
>>>> it right, and ensure that it can be continually updated.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Josh Baird 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't
>>>>>> seamlessly roam right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
>>>>>>> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
>>>>>>> version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the 
>>>>>>> coverage is
>>>>>>> not very good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the best option currently for the longest range most
>>>>>>> reliable ceiling mount AP available?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Josh Reynolds]

Again, last time, people need to stop looking for "the most powerful long
range AP" :)

It doesn't matter if the wireless device can hear the AP, it matters that
the mobile device can talk to the AP with a respectable signal level.

Remember, you don't want a bunch of low signal devices bringing overall
capacity down. You don't want your APs to hear nearby APs. You want good TX
AND RX signal on each device. My UniFi APs are actually set to not let
devices maintain connection below a -74. I overlap APs accordingly, only
only have 2 using 2.4GHz at all (set to lower power). Everything else is
5GHz.

I can walk out to the street, walk way out to the street behind my barn,
and I have coverage everywhere. My APs in the front of the property see the
APs in the back with around an -84 to -88 depending. Also covers from
basement to second floor.

If I upgrade an AP, devices instantly roam to another nearby AP and don't
drop their stream or sessions.

On Feb 1, 2018 11:27 AM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> That's certainly true.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Dan Parrish" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:25:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>
> More gain at the AP doesn't help hidden node problems between handsets.
>
> --dan
>
>
>
> On 2/1/2018 11:24 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> I'd suggest more *Tx Power* at the AP doesn't help with the tiny
> handset/laptop.  More gain ought to.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Dan Parrish" 
> To: "af@afmug.com"  
> Sent: 2/1/2018 12:21:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>
> I agree that the square original Unifi AC PRO model wasn't the best
> "value," but I used several of them across the street just fine. Was about
> 200 feet through at least two exterior stucco walls, so seemed pretty good.
>
> More gain at the AP doesn't change the physics of the (assumed) handset
> having a tiny antenna with awful radiation patterns. For this reason, I
> don't believe in "long-range" access points nowadays. Where it makes sense,
> try to place two or more access points closer to your usage areas instead
> of one centrally-located one. The days of one access point in the middle of
> the warehouse are over, IMO.
>
> --dan
>
>
>
> On 2/1/2018 1:18 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> I'm talking about the first ever unifi AC ap, it was junk.
>
> You had to have line of site to connect to the stupid thing (almost), but
> seriously like 15ft range @ 5ghz, maybe 25ft @ 2.4ghz
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Yes - I can confirm that the new-ish Lites are 802.3af.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a bunch of the UAP-AC-LITE (802.11ac, 2x2, dual band) which are
>>> like $79. The ones I have are 24VDC gigabit only. Have heard that the
>>> newest shipping version of the same model does support 802.3af power now,
>>> which is convenient. Don't quite understand how TJ wasn't happy with them
>>> being a "flop".
>>>
>>> If you want a properly set up Unifi controller virtual machine or
>>> physical system on a network, it does take a bit of Linux knowledge to do
>>> it right, and ensure that it can be continually updated.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Josh Baird 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't
> seamlessly roam right?
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:
>
>> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
>> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>
>> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
>> version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded 
>> to
>> the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage 
>> is
>> not very good.
>>
>> What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
>> ceiling mount AP available?
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> TJ
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

>>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Josh Reynolds]

Stop asking for the longest range AP.

We're supposed to be RF-smart people.

On Feb 1, 2018 6:56 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Have always had success with UniFi APs even in RF noisy place like Cattle
> Ranchers Association building with many competing APs running.
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Feb 1, 2018 5:42 AM, "Mike Hammett"  wrote:
>
>> UBNT has left these behind, but mine works at significantly more range
>> than that.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"TJ Trout" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, February 1, 2018 1:18:19 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?
>>
>> I'm talking about the first ever unifi AC ap, it was junk.
>>
>> You had to have line of site to connect to the stupid thing (almost), but
>> seriously like 15ft range @ 5ghz, maybe 25ft @ 2.4ghz
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes - I can confirm that the new-ish Lites are 802.3af.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have a bunch of the UAP-AC-LITE (802.11ac, 2x2, dual band) which are
 like $79. The ones I have are 24VDC gigabit only. Have heard that the
 newest shipping version of the same model does support 802.3af power now,
 which is convenient. Don't quite understand how TJ wasn't happy with them
 being a "flop".

 If you want a properly set up Unifi controller virtual machine or
 physical system on a network, it does take a bit of Linux knowledge to do
 it right, and ensure that it can be continually updated.

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Josh Baird 
 wrote:

> Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't
>> seamlessly roam right?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>
>>> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
>>> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>>
>>> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
>>> version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded 
>>> to
>>> the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the 
>>> coverage is
>>> not very good.
>>>
>>> What is the best option currently for the longest range most
>>> reliable ceiling mount AP available?
>>>
>>> Thanks!!
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Failover / Recovery Time Testing?

[Josh Reynolds]

mtr / mtr-tiny can do this, but you need to be root

For example:
root@cloudkey-home:~# mtr --report --report-cycles=1000 --no-dns
--show-ips --aslookup --psize=1500 --interval=0.01 192.168.254.1
Start: Mon Jan 29 20:59:02 2018
HOST: cloudkey-home   Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
  1. AS???   192.168.1.1  98.4%  10000.3   0.3   0.3   0.4   0.0
  2. AS???   192.168.254.1 0.0%  10000.7   0.7   0.7   4.2   0.1

https://linux.die.net/man/8/mtr

You can use -u flag to generate udp instead of icmp echo

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> I think also you could do something similar with floodping?
>
>
>
> I used to use that a lot on wireless connections to test consistency (with
> Mikrotik on each end)
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 5:08 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Failover / Recovery Time Testing?
>
>
>
> Adam,
>
>
>
> This looks like it will work quite well! So far with some tests I've found
> 100% success, which is the foundation for some good test results.
>
>
>
>
>
> Example from a VM through a couple Juniper switches to a MikroTik:
>
> # ping 10.11.1.3 -i 0.001 -f -c 1
>
> PING 10.11.1.3 (10.11.1.3) 56(84) bytes of data.
>
>
>
>  --- 10.11.1.3 ping statistics ---
>
> 1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 1ms
>
> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.111/0.122/2.160/0.037 ms, ipg/ewma 1.000/0.118 ms
>
>
>
>
>
> I'll calculate just like you described + the average ping time to account
> for ping replies lost at the beginning of the failure.
>
> I'm not looking to do this everywhere on everything (which would be a reason
> to re-consider where my time should be spent), I'm doing testing on the
> existing failover methods I've been using. If I find anything is really not
> as good as I thought (or much better), then I can use that to guide future
> design decisions.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your help, Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> It also occurred to me just now that you might want to add -c 1 or
> similar to end the ping command after a certain point.
>
> When you kill it with ctrl+c you can have a false drop reported because you
> might have killed it in between a request and reply.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
>
> From: "Adam Moffett" 
>
> To: af@afmug.com
>
> Sent: 1/29/2018 12:25:18 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Failover / Recovery Time Testing?
>
>
>
> Maybe it's obvious, but this method ought to be fairly accurate IF the time
> from one ping to another is very consistent.  I don't know the specific
> cause of the cases where the command is unable to satisfy the request for 1
> ping per .001 second.  Obviously if that cause leads to variance from one
> ping to another then the accuracy suffers.
>
>
>
>
>
> Even if you don't get 1 ping per ms, you might be able to estimate as:
>
> (pings transmitted / time = time per ping)
>
> and
>
> (failover time = time per ping * (pings transmitted - pings received))
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT lutron

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm putting ESP8266's on everything in my house right now, with
arduinos and relay boards galore. Then those get connected up to a
private Blynk.cc server, so I can control them from my phone.

I think I have an addiction. :(

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:31 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> Have three switches on a circuit in master bedroom running 7 can lights in
> ceiling.
>
> Some of the last convert to LED.
> They make some nice PAR38 reflector LEDS with a color temp equivalent to
> tungsten.
> Finally.
>
> So have thought of a dimmer on this for years.  3 switches.  Could put a
> dimmer in one place that would control the whole circuit but that would not
> be good if you dimmed it then wanted to control from another location.  So
> went all googly and came up with a Lutron product.  Has to be a particular
> product that will work for LEDS.  And has to be the RF version, not IR
> remote.
>
> The master dimmer uses one of the travelers as a data circuit to talk to the
> other dimmers and come to agreement as to the level that is wanted.
>
> Can dim from any location.  You can put any number of dimmers/switches on a
> circuit.   Has a preset dim button too.
> Gotta make sure to only have ONE master dimmer on the circuit.  They all get
> unhappy if more than one is the master.  This detail is very hard to find in
> the instructions.
>
> All of the switches have the dimmer controls.  Only the master has the RF
> receiver.  Have as many remotes as you want.
>
> Too several purchasing misfires (and one factory packing error), two very
> light at night tech support calls to Lutron (native American English speaker
> that actually knew his stuff).  Blew some sparks when jamming all the wires
> into one of the outlet boxes (everybody does residential electrical work hot
> right, else how would you know of you blew a circuit breaker when jamming
> all those wires back in that little box).
>
> All the switches are finally in the wall, the grounds are even connected and
> the coverplates are on.  This after about a month of bloody ended wires
> hanging out of the wall in three places and touching wires together to turn
> the lights on and off...
>
> I would recommend this system now that the pain of learning the different
> components and the wiring scheme is over.   Two touches up and full
> brightness.  One touch up and preset dimming.  Turning them off makes them
> ramp down to a nice soft finish.

Re: [AFMUG] Really?

[Josh Reynolds]

+y , yes (many)

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 7:45 PM, Jaime Solorza
 wrote:
> So many ??? Is that what you meant? Saw same thing at Hobbs Water and few
> other places...
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Jan 27, 2018 6:07 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:
>>
>> So man small WISPs like this. It's a shame really.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 10:07 PM, Jaime Solorza
>>  wrote:
>> > Had to help out an old friend who owns a small WISP here in town whose
>> > two
>> > technicians are out with flu...went up to mountain after struggled with
>> > out
>> > of date codes to gate lock and three doors at site  Finally after
>> > several calls and WhatsApp pictures, got inthis is what I
>> > foundhooked up laptop and scanned network.  The IPs they gave me on
>> > trouble tickets didn't match anything on scan list.  I rebooted AP since
>> > password they gave me didn't work...the missing clients reassociated but
>> > names didn't match tickets!!! Called office manager and asked her to
>> > please
>> > call clients on ticketsthey were back on line...I took pictures of
>> > IPs
>> > with names and sent to my friend took pictures of everything and
>> > sent to
>> > him.   He hadn't been up at mountain site in over a year...Has bad knee
>> > and
>> > is older than me so it is very hard for him...I told him I would like to
>> > meet with him next week...he was going in for surgery on knee
>> > tomorrow...I
>> > hope I can clean all this up and install a camera so he can monitor this
>> > site.   I know his head technician is lazy and my friend has lost allot
>> > of
>> > customer's due to poor service.  Let's see what happens...I still feel
>> > icky
>> > ...
>> >
>> > Jaime Solorza