Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Alex Smith]

On Wed, 2018-02-14 at 15:29 +1100, Madeline wrote:
> Is there an intended purpose for gray ribbons? I'm not sure if
> there's some custom I should be made aware of there.

The intended purpose is to give the Tailor something tradeable at times
when the economy isn't working, to persuade people to take the office.
Most offices used to have something like that, although we've been
gradually moving away from that model.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

Is there an intended purpose for gray ribbons? I'm not sure if there's 
some custom I should be made aware of there.


On 2018-02-14 14:54, Telnaior wrote:

I award a Gray Ribbon to Trigon.

On 2018-02-14 12:55, Reuben Staley wrote:

I transfer 5 shinies to Telnaior.

On Feb 13, 2018 17:14, "Madeline"  wrote:


You are a bad person.

On 2018-02-14 10:12, Cuddle Beam wrote:


I bid 15 shinies on that auction

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:00 AM, Telnaior  wrote:

:(

I bid 14 shinies on nichdel's zombie auction.


On 2018-02-14 09:43, Kerim Aydin wrote:

With sufficient support, I do so.

To save Telnaior the bother, I act on behalf of em to pay the fine
by transferring 5 shinies from em to Agora.


On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:

Pretty sure you didn't have enough support for that.


On 2018-02-14 09:25, Alexis Hunt wrote:

I support and do so.


On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 17:24, Madeline  wrote:

I'm not supporting on purpose :)


On 2018-02-14 09:18, Kerim Aydin wrote:

Not that there isn't a fascinating discussion about winning 
going on,

but
I REALLY WOULD appreciate either support for the below, or some
statement
from folks that they're not supporting on purpose (i.e. why it's
not a

good

punishment).
The current consensus-driven penalty system is very poor at 
working

when
there's general apathy/ambivalence towards it.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for 
the

office
- 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty
announced
is: 5 shinies.

I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior 
with 2

Support.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

You are a bad person.

On 2018-02-14 10:12, Cuddle Beam wrote:

I bid 15 shinies on that auction

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:00 AM, Telnaior  wrote:


:(
I bid 14 shinies on nichdel's zombie auction.


On 2018-02-14 09:43, Kerim Aydin wrote:


With sufficient support, I do so.

To save Telnaior the bother, I act on behalf of em to pay the fine
by transferring 5 shinies from em to Agora.


On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:

Pretty sure you didn't have enough support for that.

On 2018-02-14 09:25, Alexis Hunt wrote:


I support and do so.


On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 17:24, Madeline  wrote:

I'm not supporting on purpose :)

On 2018-02-14 09:18, Kerim Aydin wrote:


Not that there isn't a fascinating discussion about winning going on,
but
I REALLY WOULD appreciate either support for the below, or some
statement
from folks that they're not supporting on purpose (i.e. why it's not a


good


punishment).

The current consensus-driven penalty system is very poor at working
when
there's general apathy/ambivalence towards it.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:


On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:


I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the
office
- 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
is: 5 shinies.


I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2


Support.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

*twists mustachio* curses, foiled again!

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Telnaior <j...@iinet.net.au> wrote:

> I object. :V
>
>
> On 2018-02-14 09:26, Cuddle Beam wrote:
>
>>   > there's general apathy/ambivalence
>>
>> *smacks lips open* Aaaay I know what this calls for.
>>
>> I intend to declare victory by apathy for all players who have posted in
>> this mail thread ("DIS: Re: BUS: Confession") until now.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:18 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Not that there isn't a fascinating discussion about winning going on, but
>>> I REALLY WOULD appreciate either support for the below, or some statement
>>> from folks that they're not supporting on purpose (i.e. why it's not a
>>> good
>>> punishment).
>>>
>>> The current consensus-driven penalty system is very poor at working when
>>> there's general apathy/ambivalence towards it.
>>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office
>>>>> - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
>>>>> is: 5 shinies.
>>>>>
>>>> I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2
>>>> Support.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

Pretty sure you didn't have enough support for that.

On 2018-02-14 09:25, Alexis Hunt wrote:

I support and do so.


On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 17:24, Madeline  wrote:


I'm not supporting on purpose :)

On 2018-02-14 09:18, Kerim Aydin wrote:

Not that there isn't a fascinating discussion about winning going on, but
I REALLY WOULD appreciate either support for the below, or some statement
from folks that they're not supporting on purpose (i.e. why it's not a

good

punishment).

The current consensus-driven penalty system is very poor at working when
there's general apathy/ambivalence towards it.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:

I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office
- 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
is: 5 shinies.

I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2

Support.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Gaelan Steele]

I support. 

> On Feb 13, 2018, at 2:18 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that there isn't a fascinating discussion about winning going on, but 
> I REALLY WOULD appreciate either support for the below, or some statement
> from folks that they're not supporting on purpose (i.e. why it's not a good
> punishment).
> 
> The current consensus-driven penalty system is very poor at working when
> there's general apathy/ambivalence towards it.
> 
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>> I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office 
>>> - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
>>> is: 5 shinies.
>> 
>> I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2 Support.
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

I'm not supporting on purpose :)

On 2018-02-14 09:18, Kerim Aydin wrote:

Not that there isn't a fascinating discussion about winning going on, but
I REALLY WOULD appreciate either support for the below, or some statement
from folks that they're not supporting on purpose (i.e. why it's not a good
punishment).

The current consensus-driven penalty system is very poor at working when
there's general apathy/ambivalence towards it.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:

I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office
- 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
is: 5 shinies.

I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2 Support.

DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

Not that there isn't a fascinating discussion about winning going on, but 
I REALLY WOULD appreciate either support for the below, or some statement
from folks that they're not supporting on purpose (i.e. why it's not a good
punishment).

The current consensus-driven penalty system is very poor at working when
there's general apathy/ambivalence towards it.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office 
> > - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
> > is: 5 shinies.
> 
> I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2 Support.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 22:17 +0100, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> > OK, I'm up for trying it. How much would you sell your vote for?
> 
> I don't have a vote right now, and part of the problem is that Agora
> doesn't have much assets of lasting value at the moment to trade for
> it.
> 
> Perhaps a vote trade would be the simplest way to go about it (i.e.
> each person promises to vote FOR one proposal that the other
> designates, enforced via some legally binding mechanism).

Well I got good traffic (an AI-1 majority) on "everyone who votes for me
to get a Black Ribbon gets a black ribbon themselves".  That's highly
situational on who has black ribbons though.  Hard to price things when
the asset trades have diminishing value (everyone only needs 1 black
ribbon any more are useless).

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

So, vote trade shoppe? Vote trade shoppe.

I guess it could be done via contract. Man I love the custom-writing stuff,
it's so cool and versatile.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:22 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 22:17 +0100, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> > OK, I'm up for trying it. How much would you sell your vote for?
>
> I don't have a vote right now, and part of the problem is that Agora
> doesn't have much assets of lasting value at the moment to trade for
> it.
>
> Perhaps a vote trade would be the simplest way to go about it (i.e.
> each person promises to vote FOR one proposal that the other
> designates, enforced via some legally binding mechanism).
>
> --
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Alex Smith]

On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 22:17 +0100, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> OK, I'm up for trying it. How much would you sell your vote for?

I don't have a vote right now, and part of the problem is that Agora
doesn't have much assets of lasting value at the moment to trade for
it.

Perhaps a vote trade would be the simplest way to go about it (i.e.
each person promises to vote FOR one proposal that the other
designates, enforced via some legally binding mechanism).

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

 Eh, sort of, yeah.

I just find that it's done via proposal to have a certain mystique to it.
Proposals are the most powerful thing in the game, and you're using game
money, which is comparably worth soo mch leeess than the
omnipotence of a proposal, to get a fraction of that omnipotence and
eventually add up enough of it (omnipotence bound to be just a "win"
though, but it's aesthetically cool to me none the less lol).

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Recently, there was a proto submitted based on the PAoaM system where you
> have to destroy a number of the assets to achieving a win. That's
> technically buying a win in the loosest way possible since all the assets
> are defined as currencies.
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 14:12, "Alex Smith"  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 12:04 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent
> > record) and
> > in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to
> > vote for me
> > to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in
> > the 50-shiny
> > neighborhood or so at a guess).
>
> People ought to buy wins more often. Have we had an outright purchased
> win since proposal 5884? (Even that turned into a mess of scams and
> counterscams with respect to interpretation of the conditional vote
> rules. The win only went through because a significant proportion of
> bribe requests were sufficiently ambiguous that they ended up counting
> as PRESENT rather than AGAINST.)
>
> --
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]



On 2018-02-14 08:17, Cuddle Beam wrote:

OK, I'm up for trying it. How much would you sell your vote for?

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:


On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 12:04 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:

In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent
record) and
in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to
vote for me
to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in
the 50-shiny
neighborhood or so at a guess).

People ought to buy wins more often. Have we had an outright purchased
win since proposal 5884? (Even that turned into a mess of scams and
counterscams with respect to interpretation of the conditional vote
rules. The win only went through because a significant proportion of
bribe requests were sufficiently ambiguous that they ended up counting
as PRESENT rather than AGAINST.)

--
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Reuben Staley]

Recently, there was a proto submitted based on the PAoaM system where you
have to destroy a number of the assets to achieving a win. That's
technically buying a win in the loosest way possible since all the assets
are defined as currencies.

On Feb 13, 2018 14:12, "Alex Smith"  wrote:

On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 12:04 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent
> record) and
> in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to
> vote for me
> to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in
> the 50-shiny
> neighborhood or so at a guess).

People ought to buy wins more often. Have we had an outright purchased
win since proposal 5884? (Even that turned into a mess of scams and
counterscams with respect to interpretation of the conditional vote
rules. The win only went through because a significant proportion of
bribe requests were sufficiently ambiguous that they ended up counting
as PRESENT rather than AGAINST.)

--
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

OK, I'm up for trying it. How much would you sell your vote for?

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 12:04 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent
> > record) and
> > in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to
> > vote for me
> > to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in
> > the 50-shiny
> > neighborhood or so at a guess).
>
> People ought to buy wins more often. Have we had an outright purchased
> win since proposal 5884? (Even that turned into a mess of scams and
> counterscams with respect to interpretation of the conditional vote
> rules. The win only went through because a significant proportion of
> bribe requests were sufficiently ambiguous that they ended up counting
> as PRESENT rather than AGAINST.)
>
> --
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Alex Smith]

On Tue, 2018-02-13 at 12:04 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent
> record) and
> in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to
> vote for me
> to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in
> the 50-shiny
> neighborhood or so at a guess).

People ought to buy wins more often. Have we had an outright purchased
win since proposal 5884? (Even that turned into a mess of scams and
counterscams with respect to interpretation of the conditional vote
rules. The win only went through because a significant proportion of
bribe requests were sufficiently ambiguous that they ended up counting
as PRESENT rather than AGAINST.)

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

ignore the "Lets consider that we DO have the bracket content in there"
thing, that was in my CTRL+V from elsewhere and I slipped lol

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:06 PM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:

> That's so curious. Imagine if each of us were robots which are trying to
> maximize the amount of wins we have in comparison to the total amount (to
> get a somehow "objective" measure the value of a win - if there's loads of
> it, each that someone has is "worth" less).
>
> And then for simplicity, all we have are Bananas for a game value and
> proposals just change the amount of Bananas every player has. When you have
> 10 Bananas and more bananas than anyone else, you get a win and a new round
> starts, (and wins cannot be removed by proposal.).
>
> Lets consider that we DO have the bracket content in there
>
> What's the best way to win?
>
> It seems that nobody would ever win. Nobody would allow a proposal which
> would make someone other than themselves win, so we're in an eternal
> stalemate. UNLESS, a Quorum amount of them collude or reach an agreement to
> diceroll a winner among them and force a proposal in which makes it so. So,
> collusion seems like nearly a *necessity* for a game of nomic like that,
> because it would go nowhere otherwise.
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:04 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Cuddle Beam wrote:
>> > I support.
>>
>> NTTPF.
>>
>> > (So a win is worth abooout 90 Shinies tops? Considering that the Black
>> one
>> > is one of the hardest ones and the rest would be worth that much or
>> less.
>> > Not that its really too important lol, just curious to see.).
>>
>> I really don't think there's a good way to value a win.  I probably
>> shouldn't
>> have brought up "fractions of wins".  I think the better guidance was
>> pegging
>> to the officer salary (a specific abuse of position takes away a specific
>> 2xSalary for that time period, since we didn't card em in time to stop eir
>> January salary).
>>
>> In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent
>> record) and
>> in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to vote
>> for me
>> to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in the
>> 50-shiny
>> neighborhood or so at a guess).
>>
>> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Kerim Aydin 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> > > > I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the
>> office
>> > > > - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
>> > > > is: 5 shinies.
>> > >
>> > > I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2
>> Support.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

That's so curious. Imagine if each of us were robots which are trying to
maximize the amount of wins we have in comparison to the total amount (to
get a somehow "objective" measure the value of a win - if there's loads of
it, each that someone has is "worth" less).

And then for simplicity, all we have are Bananas for a game value and
proposals just change the amount of Bananas every player has. When you have
10 Bananas and more bananas than anyone else, you get a win and a new round
starts, (and wins cannot be removed by proposal.).

Lets consider that we DO have the bracket content in there

What's the best way to win?

It seems that nobody would ever win. Nobody would allow a proposal which
would make someone other than themselves win, so we're in an eternal
stalemate. UNLESS, a Quorum amount of them collude or reach an agreement to
diceroll a winner among them and force a proposal in which makes it so. So,
collusion seems like nearly a *necessity* for a game of nomic like that,
because it would go nowhere otherwise.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:04 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> > I support.
>
> NTTPF.
>
> > (So a win is worth abooout 90 Shinies tops? Considering that the Black
> one
> > is one of the hardest ones and the rest would be worth that much or less.
> > Not that its really too important lol, just curious to see.).
>
> I really don't think there's a good way to value a win.  I probably
> shouldn't
> have brought up "fractions of wins".  I think the better guidance was
> pegging
> to the officer salary (a specific abuse of position takes away a specific
> 2xSalary for that time period, since we didn't card em in time to stop eir
> January salary).
>
> In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent record)
> and
> in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to vote for
> me
> to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in the
> 50-shiny
> neighborhood or so at a guess).
>
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the
> office
> > > > - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
> > > > is: 5 shinies.
> > >
> > > I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2
> Support.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Cuddle Beam wrote:
> I support.

NTTPF.

> (So a win is worth abooout 90 Shinies tops? Considering that the Black one
> is one of the hardest ones and the rest would be worth that much or less.
> Not that its really too important lol, just curious to see.).

I really don't think there's a good way to value a win.  I probably shouldn't
have brought up "fractions of wins".  I think the better guidance was pegging
to the officer salary (a specific abuse of position takes away a specific
2xSalary for that time period, since we didn't card em in time to stop eir
January salary).

In some ways a win is worth far more (bragging value and permanent record) and
in some ways less (if I bribed each person a number of shinies to vote for me
to win in a proposal, I bet "buying" a win would be - oh I dunno in the 50-shiny
neighborhood or so at a guess).

> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office
> > > - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
> > > is: 5 shinies.
> >
> > I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2 Support.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

also this is all in a-d and bogus lol

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:53 PM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:

> I support.
>
> (So a win is worth abooout 90 Shinies tops? Considering that the Black one
> is one of the hardest ones and the rest would be worth that much or less.
> Not that its really too important lol, just curious to see.).
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> > I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office
>> > - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
>> > is: 5 shinies.
>>
>> I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2 Support.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

I support.

(So a win is worth abooout 90 Shinies tops? Considering that the Black one
is one of the hardest ones and the rest would be worth that much or less.
Not that its really too important lol, just curious to see.).

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > I think a fair assessment is eir January+Feburary salary for the office
> > - 6 shinies - but mitigated by eir confession.  So penalty announced
> > is: 5 shinies.
>
> I announce intent to Levy a Fine of 5 shinies on Telnaior with 2 Support.
>
>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

Proto:

---*---
Anti-Corruption:

With 3 Agoran Consent, a player can target an honor (a ribbon, a win, etc)
that has been granted to another player within the past year (365 Agoran
Days) as Corrupt, along pointing out where public trust in an Office has
been breached to accomplish gaining that allegedly Corrupt honor. An honor
which is deemed Corrupt is immediately removed from play.
---*---

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:01 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> > On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:48 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:41 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> > > > > This change, mind you, would make G win.
> > > >
> > > > Well, it's one of the more ingenious ways to deal with a missing
> black
> > > > ribbon that I've seen.
> > >
> > > Eh it's pretty darn obvious and dull if your tailor and in position
> > > to do it, only reason I didn't try at the time is I had all the
> > > others and filling in that blank would be pretty obvious.
> >
> > I didn't mean self-ratification (which is indeed fairly obvious).
> >
> > I meant repealing the ribbon by proposal.
>
> Oh yeah: that really wasn't what I was thinking at all :P
>
>
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

I'd keep the ribbon and adjust the Black Ribbon rules, it's too much of an
incentive to abuse trust in an official position and I believe a better
direction would be for it to be rewarded for non-social mechanical artistry
(as non-social as it can be...).

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:56 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Honestly I doubt that the pink slip would be a punishment at all
> because support to replace you likely wouldn't exist.
>
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> > It's hard to deny that...
> >
> > On 2018-02-12 11:40, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > >
> > > Pink slip is most appropriate however.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> > > > I would request "not a pink slip please" on the grounds that I won't
> do it
> > > > again (not that I have a reason to at this point, and now that
> reports
> > > > aren't
> > > > protected I think it's possible to contract to ensure I couldn't)
> > > > (plus now that I've got it I don't need to be looking for ways to
> get it,
> > > > and
> > > > this was pretty benign by scam standards)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2018-02-12 11:32, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > > As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> > > > > of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> > > > > when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
> made
> > > > > this
> > > > > particular scam expected/ok.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Telnaior wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This is a Notice of Honour.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I award a karma to Corona for letting us know of her inactivity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I subtract a karma from myself for abusing the powers of my
> office as
> > > > > > Tailor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I Point a Finger at myself for posting a report I knew to be
> false.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:48 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:41 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> > > > This change, mind you, would make G win.
> > > 
> > > Well, it's one of the more ingenious ways to deal with a missing black
> > > ribbon that I've seen.
> > 
> > Eh it's pretty darn obvious and dull if your tailor and in position
> > to do it, only reason I didn't try at the time is I had all the
> > others and filling in that blank would be pretty obvious.
> 
> I didn't mean self-ratification (which is indeed fairly obvious).
> 
> I meant repealing the ribbon by proposal.

Oh yeah: that really wasn't what I was thinking at all :P

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Alex Smith]

On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:48 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> > On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:41 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> > > This change, mind you, would make G win.
> > 
> > Well, it's one of the more ingenious ways to deal with a missing black
> > ribbon that I've seen.
> 
> Eh it's pretty darn obvious and dull if your tailor and in position
> to do it, only reason I didn't try at the time is I had all the
> others and filling in that blank would be pretty obvious.

I didn't mean self-ratification (which is indeed fairly obvious).

I meant repealing the ribbon by proposal.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

Honestly I doubt that the pink slip would be a punishment at all
because support to replace you likely wouldn't exist.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> It's hard to deny that...
> 
> On 2018-02-12 11:40, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > Pink slip is most appropriate however.
> > 
> > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> > > I would request "not a pink slip please" on the grounds that I won't do it
> > > again (not that I have a reason to at this point, and now that reports
> > > aren't
> > > protected I think it's possible to contract to ensure I couldn't)
> > > (plus now that I've got it I don't need to be looking for ways to get it,
> > > and
> > > this was pretty benign by scam standards)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 2018-02-12 11:32, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> > > > of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> > > > when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons made
> > > > this
> > > > particular scam expected/ok.
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Telnaior wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > This is a Notice of Honour.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I award a karma to Corona for letting us know of her inactivity.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I subtract a karma from myself for abusing the powers of my office as
> > > > > Tailor.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I Point a Finger at myself for posting a report I knew to be false.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > 
> 
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

Yeah that was me when I had tailor and was pondering it.  Not 100% clear that 
works 
it's an uncertain CFJ to be sure.  (I published a hash of a denial at the time 
but then
went for that proposal that failed on a technicality instead).

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> It's worth noting someone (Murphy?) mentioned a couple of months ago that the
> real scam is that you don't have to deny the CoE publicly, which would allow
> it to work even if someone noticed.
> 
> On 2018-02-12 11:48, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:41 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> > > > This change, mind you, would make G win.
> > > Well, it's one of the more ingenious ways to deal with a missing black
> > > ribbon that I've seen.
> > Eh it's pretty darn obvious and dull if your tailor and in position to do
> > it,  only
> > reason I didn't try at the time is I had all the others and filling in that
> > blank would
> > be pretty obvious.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

It's worth noting someone (Murphy?) mentioned a couple of months ago 
that the real scam is that you don't have to deny the CoE publicly, 
which would allow it to work even if someone noticed.


On 2018-02-12 11:48, Kerim Aydin wrote:

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:

On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:41 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote:

This change, mind you, would make G win.

Well, it's one of the more ingenious ways to deal with a missing black
ribbon that I've seen.

Eh it's pretty darn obvious and dull if your tailor and in position to do it,  
only
reason I didn't try at the time is I had all the others and filling in that 
blank would
be pretty obvious.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

(Because scams are a big part of nomic and it wouldn't be "complete"
without it)

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:49 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:

> Scams ARE the method.
>
> I find that ribbons are a bit like the Nomic Decathlon of Agora, and Black
> Ribbons are the scam challenge. It would feel a lot less Decathlon-like if
> we removed that challenge.
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:44 AM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, I meant to say give an earnable method (that I'm no closer
>> to that anyone) for black.  Disliked them for at least a year when
>> I was nowhere near winning.
>>
>> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
>> > This change, mind you, would make G win.
>> >
>> > Gaelan
>> >
>> > > On Feb 11, 2018, at 4:39 PM, Kerim Aydin 
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > How about we get rid of black ribbons altogether I loathe them
>> > > (And am certainly not willing to make a rules exception for them).
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
>> > >> On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:
>> > >>> On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> >  As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
>> >  of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
>> >  when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
>> >  made
>> >  this particular scam expected/ok.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but
>> on
>> > >>> the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
>> > >>> are
>> > >>> involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
>> > >>> Perhaps
>> > >>> I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
>> > >>> punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
>> > >>> normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
>> > >>> willing to live with the resulting punishment).
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
>> > >>> way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
>> > >>> that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
>> > >>> probably unlikely to happen here.
>> > >>
>> > >> Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
>> > >> never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
>> > >> would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
>> > >> cardable offence.
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> ais523
>> > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

Scams ARE the method.

I find that ribbons are a bit like the Nomic Decathlon of Agora, and Black
Ribbons are the scam challenge. It would feel a lot less Decathlon-like if
we removed that challenge.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:44 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Sorry, I meant to say give an earnable method (that I'm no closer
> to that anyone) for black.  Disliked them for at least a year when
> I was nowhere near winning.
>
> On Sun, 11 Feb 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> > This change, mind you, would make G win.
> >
> > Gaelan
> >
> > > On Feb 11, 2018, at 4:39 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How about we get rid of black ribbons altogether I loathe them
> > > (And am certainly not willing to make a rules exception for them).
> > >
> > > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:
> > >>> On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >  As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> >  of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> >  when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
> >  made
> >  this particular scam expected/ok.
> > >>>
> > >>> I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
> > >>> the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
> > >>> are
> > >>> involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
> > >>> Perhaps
> > >>> I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
> > >>> punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
> > >>> normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
> > >>> willing to live with the resulting punishment).
> > >>>
> > >>> Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
> > >>> way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
> > >>> that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
> > >>> probably unlikely to happen here.
> > >>
> > >> Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
> > >> never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
> > >> would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
> > >> cardable offence.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> ais523
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:41 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> > This change, mind you, would make G win.
> 
> Well, it's one of the more ingenious ways to deal with a missing black
> ribbon that I've seen.

Eh it's pretty darn obvious and dull if your tailor and in position to do it,  
only
reason I didn't try at the time is I had all the others and filling in that 
blank would
be pretty obvious.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

Sorry, I meant to say give an earnable method (that I'm no closer
to that anyone) for black.  Disliked them for at least a year when
I was nowhere near winning.

On Sun, 11 Feb 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> This change, mind you, would make G win.
> 
> Gaelan
> 
> > On Feb 11, 2018, at 4:39 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > How about we get rid of black ribbons altogether I loathe them
> > (And am certainly not willing to make a rules exception for them).
> > 
> > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>  As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
>  of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
>  when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
>  made
>  this particular scam expected/ok.
> >>> 
> >>> I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
> >>> the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
> >>> are
> >>> involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
> >>> Perhaps
> >>> I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
> >>> punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
> >>> normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
> >>> willing to live with the resulting punishment).
> >>> 
> >>> Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
> >>> way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
> >>> that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
> >>> probably unlikely to happen here.
> >> 
> >> Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
> >> never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
> >> would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
> >> cardable offence.
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> ais523
> >> 
> > 
> 
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

If that were the case, I just wouldn't have come clean about it...


On 2018-02-12 11:42, Cuddle Beam wrote:

I think the challenge should be to get Black Ribbons without getting cards.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:39 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:



How about we get rid of black ribbons altogether I loathe them
(And am certainly not willing to make a rules exception for them).

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:

On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:

On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:

As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
made
this particular scam expected/ok.

I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
are
involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
Perhaps
I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
willing to live with the resulting punishment).

Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
probably unlikely to happen here.

Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
cardable offence.

--
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Alex Smith]

On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:41 -0800, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> This change, mind you, would make G win.

Well, it's one of the more ingenious ways to deal with a missing black
ribbon that I've seen.

It was intended to be mostly economic (bribe people to vote for your
proposal to give you one), but that's suffered from our continuing lack
of a functional economy. So maybe it'd be for the best if it were
removed.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

It's hard to deny that...

On 2018-02-12 11:40, Kerim Aydin wrote:


Pink slip is most appropriate however.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:

I would request "not a pink slip please" on the grounds that I won't do it
again (not that I have a reason to at this point, and now that reports aren't
protected I think it's possible to contract to ensure I couldn't)
(plus now that I've got it I don't need to be looking for ways to get it, and
this was pretty benign by scam standards)


On 2018-02-12 11:32, Kerim Aydin wrote:

As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons made this
particular scam expected/ok.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Telnaior wrote:


This is a Notice of Honour.

I award a karma to Corona for letting us know of her inactivity.

I subtract a karma from myself for abusing the powers of my office as
Tailor.

I Point a Finger at myself for posting a report I knew to be false.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Cuddle Beam]

I think the challenge should be to get Black Ribbons without getting cards.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:39 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> How about we get rid of black ribbons altogether I loathe them
> (And am certainly not willing to make a rules exception for them).
>
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> > On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:
> > > On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> > > > of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> > > > when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
> > > > made
> > > > this particular scam expected/ok.
> > >
> > > I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
> > > the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
> > > are
> > > involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
> > > Perhaps
> > > I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
> > > punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
> > > normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
> > > willing to live with the resulting punishment).
> > >
> > > Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
> > > way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
> > > that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
> > > probably unlikely to happen here.
> >
> > Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
> > never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
> > would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
> > cardable offence.
> >
> > --
> > ais523
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Gaelan Steele]

This change, mind you, would make G win.

Gaelan

> On Feb 11, 2018, at 4:39 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> How about we get rid of black ribbons altogether I loathe them
> (And am certainly not willing to make a rules exception for them).
> 
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
>> On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
 As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
 of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
 when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
 made
 this particular scam expected/ok.
>>> 
>>> I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
>>> the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
>>> are
>>> involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
>>> Perhaps
>>> I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
>>> punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
>>> normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
>>> willing to live with the resulting punishment).
>>> 
>>> Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
>>> way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
>>> that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
>>> probably unlikely to happen here.
>> 
>> Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
>> never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
>> would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
>> cardable offence.
>> 
>> -- 
>> ais523
>> 
> 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

Pink slip is most appropriate however.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> I would request "not a pink slip please" on the grounds that I won't do it
> again (not that I have a reason to at this point, and now that reports aren't
> protected I think it's possible to contract to ensure I couldn't)
> (plus now that I've got it I don't need to be looking for ways to get it, and
> this was pretty benign by scam standards)
> 
> 
> On 2018-02-12 11:32, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> > of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> > when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons made this
> > particular scam expected/ok.
> > 
> > On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Telnaior wrote:
> > 
> > > This is a Notice of Honour.
> > > 
> > > I award a karma to Corona for letting us know of her inactivity.
> > > 
> > > I subtract a karma from myself for abusing the powers of my office as
> > > Tailor.
> > > 
> > > I Point a Finger at myself for posting a report I knew to be false.
> > > 
> > > 
> 
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

How about we get rid of black ribbons altogether I loathe them
(And am certainly not willing to make a rules exception for them).

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:
> > On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> > > of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> > > when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
> > > made
> > > this particular scam expected/ok.
> > 
> > I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
> > the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
> > are
> > involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
> > Perhaps
> > I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
> > punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
> > normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
> > willing to live with the resulting punishment).
> > 
> > Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
> > way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
> > that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
> > probably unlikely to happen here.
> 
> Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
> never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
> would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
> cardable offence.
> 
> -- 
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Alex Smith]

On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 00:35 +, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> > of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> > when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons
> > made
> > this particular scam expected/ok.
> 
> I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
> the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons
> are
> involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched).
> Perhaps
> I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
> punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
> normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
> willing to live with the resulting punishment).
> 
> Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
> way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
> that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
> probably unlikely to happen here.

Hmm, proto: actions whose only purpose is to gain a Black Ribbon are
never illegal (although they could be impossible); however, if they
would otherwise violate the rules, they are (despite being legal) a
cardable offence.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

I already did that D:

On 2018-02-12 11:35, Gaelan Steele wrote:

I point my finger at Telnaior for violation of rule 2143/26, third to last 
paragraph. If we don’t want to punish for this, we should codify it in the 
rules.

Gaelan


On Feb 11, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:



As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons made this
particular scam expected/ok.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Telnaior wrote:


This is a Notice of Honour.

I award a karma to Corona for letting us know of her inactivity.

I subtract a karma from myself for abusing the powers of my office as Tailor.

I Point a Finger at myself for posting a report I knew to be false.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Madeline]

I would request "not a pink slip please" on the grounds that I won't do 
it again (not that I have a reason to at this point, and now that 
reports aren't protected I think it's possible to contract to ensure I 
couldn't)
(plus now that I've got it I don't need to be looking for ways to get 
it, and this was pretty benign by scam standards)



On 2018-02-12 11:32, Kerim Aydin wrote:


As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons made this
particular scam expected/ok.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Telnaior wrote:


This is a Notice of Honour.

I award a karma to Corona for letting us know of her inactivity.

I subtract a karma from myself for abusing the powers of my office as Tailor.

I Point a Finger at myself for posting a report I knew to be false.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Alex Smith]

On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 16:32 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
> of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
> when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons made
> this particular scam expected/ok.

I look down on intentionally breaking rules as part of a scam, but on
the other hand, I'm more willing to forgive that when Black Ribbons are
involved (without other parts of the gamestate being touched). Perhaps
I'm OK with this if the Tailor is OK with living with the typical
punishment for intentionally falsifying the report (even though I
normally believe that you shouldn't break the rules even if you're
willing to live with the resulting punishment).

Incidentally, I also believe it's acceptable to attempt to scam your
way out of a punishment after an accidental rules breach, because
that's a different issue from the rules breach itself. But that's
probably unlikely to happen here.

-- 
ais523

DIS: Re: BUS: Confession

[Kerim Aydin]

As referee I'm conflicted.  On one hand this is blatant use
of office for personal gain, on the other hand I convinced myself
when I was Tailor that the nature/ expectation of Black ribbons made this
particular scam expected/ok.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018, Telnaior wrote:

> This is a Notice of Honour.
> 
> I award a karma to Corona for letting us know of her inactivity.
> 
> I subtract a karma from myself for abusing the powers of my office as Tailor.
> 
> I Point a Finger at myself for posting a report I knew to be false.
> 
>