Alarm clock (Re: Wiki - OpenMoko Community Applications)
I have re-read the wish list and community applications list and could not find a feature that I use on my current phone day to day. That is alarm clock. Or is it part of the calendar? Do you have any pointers to OpenMoko's alarm clock application? Or is it missing yet? It would be a nice hobby project :-) Michael Shiloh wrote: Hi JW, This is wonderful. Thanks for coming up with the idea and for implementing it. I look forward to seeing more applications on this page. Regards, Michael JW wrote: The Basic_End-user page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Basic_End-user The new OpenMoko Community Applications Page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Community_Applications JW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Kyle Bassett: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. No! Even in a perfect world, GSM-BS is telling to MS a T321-timecycle to reregister. So you have to add to this figure some seconds of full TX-power consumption e.g. every 40min. (put any cellphone near a walkman for some hours, and you may hear...) Please note that these things a controlled by BaseStation and dependent of current RF-quality (at least for MS-TX power), so you hardly will get reproduceable values with a simple test on desktop. Is there a RTC-Alarm in GTA02, to schedule the cron-jobs mentioned up-topic? cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarm clock (Re: Wiki - OpenMoko Community Applications)
Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Schmidt András: I have re-read the wish list and community applications list and could not find a feature that I use on my current phone day to day. That is alarm clock. Or is it part of the calendar? Do you have any pointers to OpenMoko's alarm clock application? Or is it missing yet? It would be a nice hobby project :-) Without RTC (see my post on battery life), it's a nightmare. And this makes me even more suspicious about whether NEO got a RTC or not. You just don't want to hold CPU in powered up state all the time, to run your timer for the alarm clock. On scheduled time battery is empty :-( j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarm clock (Re: Wiki - OpenMoko Community Applications)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Schmidt András: I have re-read the wish list and community applications list and could not find a feature that I use on my current phone day to day. That is alarm clock. Or is it part of the calendar? Do you have any pointers to OpenMoko's alarm clock application? Or is it missing yet? It would be a nice hobby project :-) Without RTC (see my post on battery life), it's a nightmare. And this makes me even more suspicious about whether NEO got a RTC or not. You just don't want to hold CPU in powered up state all the time, to run your timer for the alarm clock. On scheduled time battery is empty :-( Hi - A good healthy suspicion! But the Power Management Unit has an RTC that is capable to wake the CPU, it should be fine. Software end isn't done AFAIK but its okay. (Maybe we don't need alarm for it anyway because the GSM unit should wake us when it wants us to do something, I don't know anything about that end I'm afraid.) On the battery life, because we didn't get the GSM unit to suspend yet and be able to wake us (Matt works on it), the only consumption figures we can talk about right now is no-GSM suspend, right now it looks like we can manage ~ 20 days like that (but it is an estimate based on measurements, not verified). - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtC1UOjLpvpq7dMoRAg+lAJ0dIszwyMjSkUPB0skfjhN5DliLlQCfRPrh l5ySs5Zroreq4gu7y41vTfA= =V4j8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
This would definitely be good. I have Bluetooth disabled on my current phone almost all the time. As rarely as I use BT, there's no need to have it always on. I anticipate similar usage for wifi for me. So, I would love to be able to turn those two off and back from the icons at the top. -Steven On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:38 AM, Kyle Bassett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarm clock (Re: Wiki - OpenMoko Community Applications)
A quick search will answer this question: http://projects.openmoko.org/search/?type_of_search=softwords=alarmSearch=Search You can see there are a few choices. http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/ringer/ is marked as beta and has a download ready for your testing. -Steven On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:28 AM, Schmidt András [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have re-read the wish list and community applications list and could not find a feature that I use on my current phone day to day. That is alarm clock. Or is it part of the calendar? Do you have any pointers to OpenMoko's alarm clock application? Or is it missing yet? It would be a nice hobby project :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. GTA02 is capable to dialogue with a smart battery that will allow you to see the battery actual voltage and current flow (together: actual power) in uA down /sys in realtime, it uses the linux Power Supply class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) The battery itself learns its cell performance over load and also makes available its time to full/empty estimate down /sys as well in seconds. You can see what data is available here: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq27000 You can see stuff like this for i in capacity charge_full current_now present status technology temp time_to_empty_now time_to_full_now type voltage_now ; do echo -n $i ; cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/$i ; done capacity0 charge_full1215585 current_now183375 present1 statusDischarging technologyLi-ion temp276 time_to_empty_now0 time_to_full_now3932100 typeBattery voltage_now2761000 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtG+yOjLpvpq7dMoRAq2TAJoCYOC+PD3gj/jRMpOPnBL5MZJkzQCfTJn4 9ebCrbNjtGtDMBsJuUXZ8HY= =ANtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
For reference, the numbers I came up with are for absolute minimum power usage for GTA02. These figures are still *very* preliminary, but I wanted to convey the success of the last few weeks. We should probably expect a standby time closer to ~7 days, that way any improvement over this runtime will be to our benefit. As we all know, no lab environment or test bench can account for all of the scenarios in the real world, making it very difficult to approach perfect world operation. -Kyle On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 6:32 AM, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Kyle Bassett: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. No! Even in a perfect world, GSM-BS is telling to MS a T321-timecycle to reregister. So you have to add to this figure some seconds of full TX-power consumption e.g. every 40min. (put any cellphone near a walkman for some hours, and you may hear...) Please note that these things a controlled by BaseStation and dependent of current RF-quality (at least for MS-TX power), so you hardly will get reproduceable values with a simple test on desktop. Is there a RTC-Alarm in GTA02, to schedule the cron-jobs mentioned up-topic? cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Andy - class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new 'smart' battery. There are more steps to go through internally, related to certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details? The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was 1200 mAh). I am trying to release the schematics for the small PCB inside the smart battery as well, will be posted to the wiki. Wolfgang On Feb 15, 2008, at 12:43 AM, Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. GTA02 is capable to dialogue with a smart battery that will allow you to see the battery actual voltage and current flow (together: actual power) in uA down /sys in realtime, it uses the linux Power Supply class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) The battery itself learns its cell performance over load and also makes available its time to full/empty estimate down /sys as well in seconds. You can see what data is available here: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq27000 You can see stuff like this for i in capacity charge_full current_now present status technology temp time_to_empty_now time_to_full_now type voltage_now ; do echo -n $i ; cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/ $i ; done capacity0 charge_full1215585 current_now183375 present1 statusDischarging technologyLi-ion temp276 time_to_empty_now0 time_to_full_now3932100 typeBattery voltage_now2761000 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtG+yOjLpvpq7dMoRAq2TAJoCYOC+PD3gj/jRMpOPnBL5MZJkzQCfTJn4 9ebCrbNjtGtDMBsJuUXZ8HY= =ANtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Is this smart battery (internal circuitry+cell) custom via OM, or third party? On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Wolfgang Spraul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy - class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new 'smart' battery. There are more steps to go through internally, related to certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details? The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was 1200 mAh). I am trying to release the schematics for the small PCB inside the smart battery as well, will be posted to the wiki. Wolfgang On Feb 15, 2008, at 12:43 AM, Andy Green wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: On Thursday, Feb 14, 2008, Kyle Bassett writes: There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). Indeed, this along with good realtime stats on power usage and current battery level would let people have reasonably accurate predictions of their battery life. It'd be interesting (to me at least) to turn on and off the various peripherals and watch my projected battery life go up and down accordingly. GTA02 is capable to dialogue with a smart battery that will allow you to see the battery actual voltage and current flow (together: actual power) in uA down /sys in realtime, it uses the linux Power Supply class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) The battery itself learns its cell performance over load and also makes available its time to full/empty estimate down /sys as well in seconds. You can see what data is available here: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq27000 You can see stuff like this for i in capacity charge_full current_now present status technology temp time_to_empty_now time_to_full_now type voltage_now ; do echo -n $i ; cat /sys/devices/platform/bq27000-battery.0/power_supply/bat/ $i ; done capacity0 charge_full1215585 current_now183375 present1 statusDischarging technologyLi-ion temp276 time_to_empty_now0 time_to_full_now3932100 typeBattery voltage_now2761000 - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtG+yOjLpvpq7dMoRAq2TAJoCYOC+PD3gj/jRMpOPnBL5MZJkzQCfTJn4 9ebCrbNjtGtDMBsJuUXZ8HY= =ANtG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
On 14/02/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Kyle for a great summary of the work being discussed on the kernel ML. I am simply not able to keep up with all the lists and very much appreciate your helping out here. Michael indeed, thanks for the info kyle. i've been avidly following the dev cycle of the software/hardware here, and it's good to see some technical info from the kernel ML, 95% of which is over my head would it be possible for someone - michael, kyle? - to give an update on this kind of info on a regular basis? i'm sure there are plenty of others eager for technical progress, but who are unlikely to venture on the kernel list? Kyle Bassett wrote: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a tedious task). In the very near future, we should see some numbers coming in about the talk runtime, once some GSM power state issues are resolved. There is talk about pushing startup power control of the internal devices (wifi, bt, gps, mmc, etc.) to user level, as every user may or may not want certain devices available at bootup/all the time (availability vs. duration). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LiMo article in Washington Post
The article says Anyone hoping to create new applications for competing proprietary programs from Microsoft Corp., Palm Inc., Research in Motion Ltd. or Nokia Corp.'s Symbian must pay licensing fees. So, I'd say it doesn't relate to OpenMoko. OpenMoko is truly an open platform that you can develop for without restrictions and without paying anything. LiMo seems to me to be some big companies grabbing on to what they believe to be this great new buzz-word: Linux. -Steven On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Informative article about LiMO in the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/14/AR2008021401518.html?wpisrc=newsletterwpisrc=newsletterwpisrc=newsletter It may require site registration, but it is a very light-weight approach. I am interested in understanding LimO and how it does or does not relate to Open Moko. thanks -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: topic for next community update [was Community Update Wed Feb 13 2008]
It's always been option i. Hence the release of GTA01. Many apps on that are still not polished. It'll be many months after the release of the Freerunner before the phones are ready for basic end users. -Steven On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:10 PM, JW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) What is OpenMoko's plan to release FreeRunner i) release when hardware and kernel are solid and before application software is polished. Community helps to polish software prior to full launch to basic end users ii) release when both hardware and software are polished. Will take a little longer but will impress journalists more... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LiMo article in Washington Post (or Another Rant From Lefty)
Steven ** wrote: The article says Anyone hoping to create new applications for competing proprietary programs from Microsoft Corp., Palm Inc., Research in Motion Ltd. or Nokia Corp.'s Symbian must pay licensing fees. First off, this aspect of the story isn't even accurate. I'm not aware that third-party application developers need to pay anybody anything to write such applications for Windows Mobile- or for Symbian-based systems (whether the Series 60 ones from Nokia or the UIQ ones from Sony-Ericsson). They most certainly don't pay licensing fees to write applications for Garnet OS, which powers Palm devices (and which is a product of ACCESS), and they never have. I don't know about RIM devices. This writer is confused between, on the one hand, commercial license fees for applications developers, and, on the other, the license fees which device manufacturers (such as Palm, Nokia, HTC, etc.) pay to operating system vendors (like ACCESS, Symbian, and Microsoft, respectively) to make the units they sell which use those operating systems. (Palm actually bought a perpetual license to Garnet from us a while back, so they don't have to pay us licensing fees any more, as it happens.) This is substantially different than, for example, the situation with Qt and Trolltech, where application developers /do /have to get a commercial license (for about US$2,000) from Trolltech if they want to make applications which they will sell rather than give away (which they can do under GPL 3 terms at this point). This is possible because, while Qt is indeed open source, Trolltech holds the copyright and can dictate commercial terms regardless of its status as free (as in speech, not as in beer) software. So, I'd say it doesn't relate to OpenMoko. OpenMoko is truly an open platform that you can develop for without restrictions and without paying anything. LiMo seems to me to be some big companies grabbing on to what they believe to be this great new buzz-word: Linux. I'd say it /should /relate to OpenMoko. LiMo is about middleware, things like messaging frameworks, telephony frameworks, etc., which is an overlap area with OpenMoko, true. On the other hand, LiMo devices will evidently be using not only the Linux kernel, but also things like GTK and the like, components which OpenMoko uses as well. If the companies in LiMo make improvements to GTK, would you recommend that OpenMoko refuse to look at them on the basis that they came from some big companies grabbing on to what they believe to be this great new buzz-word: Linux...? Seems unreasonable (and unwise) to me. People keep wishing that they could run the OpenMoko stack (for whatever degree of runnable) on devices other than the Neo; they complain about how the carriers don't get it (without necessarily understanding the nature of the global wireless telecommunications business to any particular degree); the companies in LiMo represent some of the largest carriers and manufacturers of cell phones in the world I'd say ignoring them, rather than working to positively engage with them, will ensure that OpenMoko is relegated to a small number of hard-to-get devices for hobbyists, and that the capabilities of phones coming out of the big companies in LiMo will quickly surpass them; these folks make phones for a living, not for fun. Be as suspicious as you like, but I'd suggest that's unproductive; LiMo's published APIs for you to look at, and they seem to be putting out a lot more information (including some podcasts explaining their view of what they're doing and the market as they see it), so if you want to critique 'em, at least you can do it on an informed basis. As Harlan Ellison observed, Everyone's entitled to an /educated /opinion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Can GTA01 users upgrade to this battery and would it make sense to do so? Not without hacking the device and the drivers and only then if you can find a GPIO that comes out to a resistor or something you can wire up to. The third pin on the GTA01 battery is a temperature sense pin and it goes off to an ADC input on the PMU, which makes complete sense for what that is. But it can't be exploited for the HDQ protocol on the smart battery without some difficult hack. Basically as a rule hardware is set in stone, it goes double when it is micro BGAs and so on like this hardware, there's not much anyone can do about that. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtMFrOjLpvpq7dMoRAgfGAJ9s3V1tbTjQOTUquKHl+2/1A0AqlQCdFE8G ZIZ4DEHSwPjnxpnEOOUXZqQ= =okMj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Do 14. Februar 2008 schrieb Andy Green: Basically as a rule hardware is set in stone, it goes double when it is micro BGAs and so on like this hardware, there's not much anyone can do about that. That's the reason why polite PCB-designers are planning for a NC-via at least for those BGA-contacts, that you won't get a hold on otherwise. Of course this adds about 2 cent to the costs of PCB for each via, and thus never is done by any commercial hw-mf (except those who had a major field-change-order issue in their history). On the other hand, what's the tools to open the case worth for, which surely add to total cost of product as well? Of course a few vias don't already make a nice protoboard yet, but at least *some* users with smd-soldering experience may benefit. As long as they had some schematics anyway. All this very suboptimal with regard to an open phone. All my Sony-gadgets are more open, when it comes to this. At least for those i got pretty nice service-manuals incl. circuit diagrams for free. cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: Is this smart battery (internal circuitry+cell) custom via OM, or third party? I dunno the answer to this, but the smart battery is the same physical footprint as the GTA01 one if that helps make a guess. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtMr6OjLpvpq7dMoRAhZ1AJ4m46Eeh4+iW9dvJAfK9cXRwcsF0gCePL4v 41tDd+pYLf4T/cGbwoGXlrQ= =J/At -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Fr 15. Februar 2008 schrieb Andy Green: As I say it matters a bit less because so many signals are unavailable anyway, but of course I really understand the point of having them. To offset it a little there are bunch of testpoints which are annotated on the board and will be annotated in the wiki, there are things like I2C and LVTTL UART on there to leverage somewhat. So i hope there's a testpoint for each unused valuable (hidden) pin at least, like GPIO (if any left, at any chip [Wolfson mixer]), the LineIN/Out pins marked unused in Wolfson mixer Wiki(GTA01), videoIn/Out(?), etc... That's just fine, for nobody really needs access to *buses* (hmm, on a second thought - adding some RAM... A real challenge :-). And for circuit diagrams, let's wait and see how much time it takes till first third party reverse engineered diagrams will be available. btw: tapping 0402R is my hobby to calm down ;-) cheers j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
GTA01 Gllin ipkg
Hi everyone, I recently got my GTA01 and am trying to get the gllin ipkg from http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/ . However, everytime I download it, it says it is corrupted. Does anyone know another place I can try to download it? Thanks On Thu, 2008-02-14 at 15:58 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send community mailing list submissions to community@lists.openmoko.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of community digest... email message attachment Forwarded Message From: fredthecat [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Exit of OpenMoko Window System Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:02:11 -0500 Dear All I was playing around with a fully emulated QEMU OpenMoko system (from a built system using MokoMakefile as documented in the Wiki), and at one point I hit the space bar (it the emulated Linux OpenMoko system received the keypress). When I did this, it exited the windows system (as if it had crashed or just plain died), but dropped me to a command line login ... and I could happily login as root and use regular commands. My question is this: did I hit a but and crash the UI, or did I hit some magic (to me) sequence that is intended to exit the UI? regards Martin email message attachment Forwarded Message From: Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: community@lists.openmoko.org community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: LiMo article in Washington Post Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:46:57 -0500 Informative article about LiMO in the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/14/AR2008021401518.html?wpisrc=newsletterwpisrc=newsletterwpisrc=newsletter It may require site registration, but it is a very light-weight approach. I am interested in understanding LimO and how it does or does not relate to Open Moko. thanks -- Ron K. Jeffries http://blog.eronj.com email message attachment Forwarded Message From: Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org To: List for OpenMoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:53:28 -0500 On 14/02/2008, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Kyle for a great summary of the work being discussed on the kernel ML. I am simply not able to keep up with all the lists and very much appreciate your helping out here. Michael indeed, thanks for the info kyle. i've been avidly following the dev cycle of the software/hardware here, and it's good to see some technical info from the kernel ML, 95% of which is over my head would it be possible for someone - michael, kyle? - to give an update on this kind of info on a regular basis? i'm sure there are plenty of others eager for technical progress, but who are unlikely to venture on the kernel list? Kyle Bassett wrote: I have been following the Suspended Mode thread in the kernel ML and they have made amazing progress within the last week. As GTA02A5 currently stands, a cold suspend mode (just GSM in standby awaiting incoming call/sms), could result in 20 days of standby! For those technical people on this list, they have gotten GTA02A5 in suspend using ~2.07mA @ 3.7v (fully charged batt). If the GTA02 will have a 1200mAh battery, that's ~24 days of suspend runtime in a perfect world. The goal is set around 1mA-2mA of suspend current draw, with best case scenario suspend time of ~50 days (sure beats 4 hours... :-P ). There are also issues such as internal battery discharge, ~30% over 90 days for one of the packs that is being considered, which will reduce the final suspend runtime available. Currently, work continues attempting to shave even more power consumption from a sleeping Freerunner. Individual power consumption of the different internal devices is still taking place, that way any user can approximate their battery lifetime (but each internal device has a few different states, making this a tedious task). In the very near future, we should see some numbers coming in about the talk runtime, once some GSM power
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: So i hope there's a testpoint for each unused valuable (hidden) pin at It didn't happen I am afraid. There is some IO to be had at the testpoints, but mainly they are just that -- test points. For example if you didn't have the BT module you can get a second USB 1.1 host and some GPIO, no WLAN you can have SDIO and some GPIO from gold testpoints that are relatively easy to access. In the end it is trying to be a phone rather than an embedded controller. Still for quite a few embedded tasks I2C or LVTTL UART -- let's not forget USB OTG 12Mbps host from the mini USB B connector -- will be enough to make a practical solution though. btw: tapping 0402R is my hobby to calm down ;-) LOL - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtN9uOjLpvpq7dMoRAr2HAJ0XNFmIbLgeAokClQ2pve9buJr5zgCePSVy ZGfjPPKBPw1r71HU/PjRBOM= =rqzt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Am Fr 15. Februar 2008 schrieb Andy Green: Still for quite a few embedded tasks I2C or LVTTL UART -- let's not forget USB OTG 12Mbps host from the mini USB B connector -- will be enough to make a practical solution though. Good point! If i need additional GPIO, so what. I got I2C, so i just chain up some with a dirt cheap chip. The interfacing of the smart battery in GTA01 shouldn't be a big thing this way. Homebrew I2C-GPIO driver, patching GPIO_Bat DEF in src for GTA02 smartbat driver. So real issue left for some projects is which power should i use (especially for those devices that don't do their own power-down). And i wonder whether there will be *good* (near circuit diagram) specs for the connectors. I.E.: *-what kind of OverVoltage-Protection (clamp-diodes etc) / HF-blocking / ground potential..., can i expect behind any external connector. *-What exactly is the impedance (R, C) of headset out, what are the absolute maximum ratings (so i may figure out e.g. whether the headset out makes for a high-quality (HiFi) 1,[EMAIL PROTECTED] line out, or should i plan for a 56R load instead of the standard 10k-50k). *-USB-host power shortcircuit...? Will it blow my battery or whole NEO up in smoke? ;-). *-etc. For questions like these i'm used to refer to a c.diagram. If they are answered verbatim somewhere, i'm fine with it. j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity (Was: Re: More about the GTA02)
Wolfgang Spraul ??: Andy - class to expose it so it is generic. (I don't know for sure if it will ship with such a battery since it is decided in .tw according to availability and so on, but I hope it will.) Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new 'smart' battery. There are more steps to go through internally, related to certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details? The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was 1200 mAh). The battery cell is 1250mAh for GTA02 coulomb battery cell, and the coulomb counter setting for battery will around 1200mAh, but not confirm all parameter from hardware side yet. The battery was smart battery, and they will learn the charging curve during each charge. So the mA number on the sticker or on the battery cell documentation will not that precise during the daily use. And we change to new coulomb battery, will need re-do some certification test for FCC/CE. They are proceeding now. Tony Tu ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02 Battery Capacity was 1200 mAh
Yes, I think we can confirm that every GTA02 will ship with this new 'smart' battery. There are more steps to go through internally, related to certification, some sort of calibration. Tony, do you know more details? The cell's capacity will increase slightly to 1250 mAh (before was 1200 mAh). I am trying to release the schematics for the small PCB inside the smart battery as well, will be posted to the wiki. Another update, the battery cell was marked 1200 mAh, the SANYO cell says it was 1200 mAh. I double check with battery vendor, they said that battery could charge to 1250mAh by experiment. The 1250 number I provided was a mistake, sorry. Basic on Sanyo approval sheet, I think using 1200mAh is more accurate for our coulomb battery. Tony Tu ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA01 Gllin ipkg
Dan Staley wrote: I recently got my GTA01 and am trying to get the gllin ipkg from http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/ . However, everytime I download it, it says it is corrupted. Some people had similar problems in the past - they would download a copy of the EULA rather than the package itself. You might try it with a different browser, and make sure that it's passing the Referer: header correctly. The above URL works for me. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA01 Gllin ipkg
Mike Montour pisze: Dan Staley wrote: I recently got my GTA01 and am trying to get the gllin ipkg from http://3rdparty.downloads.openmoko.org/gllin/ . However, everytime I download it, it says it is corrupted. Some people had similar problems in the past - they would download a copy of the EULA rather than the package itself. You might try it with a different browser, and make sure that it's passing the Referer: header correctly. The above URL works for me. Same here, when I installed it for the first time. Open the link in ordinary web browser, then scp it to the phone. Don't try to pass this url directly to IPKG. Best regards, -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 287629 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl http://www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
