Re: [Computer-go] Indexing and Searching Go Positions -- Literature Wanted

. > > *Stephen Martindale* > > +49 160 950 27545 > stephen.c.martind...@gmail.com > > > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 17:01, Erik van der Werf > wrote: > >> https://www.real-me.net/ddyer/go/signature-spec.html >> >> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:16 PM Bria

Re: [Computer-go] Indexing and Searching Go Positions -- Literature Wanted

es were made. IIRC it was > nearly a unique key for pro positions. > > Best, > Brian > > -Original Message- > From: Erik van der Werf > To: computer-go > Sent: Tue, Sep 17, 2019 5:55 am > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Indexing and Searching Go Positions -- &

Re: [Computer-go] ML web site was deleted?

Apparently it's not so easy to keep a mailing list running smoothly... For now at least we can still see archives at: https://www.mail-archive.com/computer-go@computer-go.org/ On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 4:14 PM Adrian Petrescu wrote: > Indeed, I think a lot of aspects of the mailing list software

Re: [Computer-go] Indexing and Searching Go Positions -- Literature Wanted

Hi Stephen, I'm not aware of recent published work. There is an ancient document by Antti Huima on hash schemes for easy symmetry detection/lookup. Unfortunately his implementation was broken, but other schemes have been proposed that solve the issue (I found one myself, but I think many others

[Computer-go] CompGo list / gmail broken again? (was Re: A new ELF OpenGo bot and analysis of historical Go games)

It looks like gmail is broken again for this list. I never got Remi's original post (not even in my spam folder). I can only see it in the archive. Erik On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 5:50 PM J. van der Steen wrote: > > And most important: > >* Does ELF know the meaning of life? > > On

Re: [Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0

t; > - Mail original ----- > De: "Erik van der Werf" > À: "computer-go" > Envoyé: Mardi 1 Janvier 2019 18:24:40 > Objet: Re: [Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0 > > > > > Thanks Remi! Nice to see that GoGui is still alive :-) > > > FYI the includ

Re: [Computer-go] GoGui 1.5.0

Thanks Remi! Nice to see that GoGui is still alive :-) FYI the included version of gogui-twogtp has a bug (which has been around for many years) where the '-alternate' option causes incorrect results in the game records. Happy New Year to all! Erik On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 6:50 PM Hiroshi

Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

;>> jim.oflaherty...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Remember, patents are a STRATEGIC mechanism as well as a legal >>>>>>>> mechanism. As soon as a patent is publically filed (for example, as >>>>>>>

Re: [Computer-go] New paper by DeepMind

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 11:28 PM Rémi Coulom wrote: > Also, the AlphaZero algorithm is patented: > https://patentscope2.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2018215665 > So far it just looks like an application (and I don't think it will be be difficult to oppose, if you care about this) Erik

Re: [Computer-go] Using 9x9 policy on 13x13 and 19x19

In the old days I trained separate move predictors on 9x9 games and on 19x19 games. In my case, the ones trained on 19x19 games beat the ones trained on 9x9 games also on the 9x9 board. Perhaps it was just because of was having better data from 19x19, but I thought it was interesting to see that

Re: [Computer-go] Zen giving handicap against pro players

Normal handicap games with 0.5 komi favor Black by only half a stone/grade compensation (so if there is a full grade difference in strength White still has an advantage). Two handicap stones with normal komi just corrects for one stone/grade strength difference (just like one handicap stone with

Re: [Computer-go] AI ryusei 2017 first day result

I didn't see the games, but I suppose they simply made the rookie mistake of playing (too many) stones inside own territory while the opponent was passing... Op 2 jan. 2018 22:09 schreef "Adrian Petrescu" : I'm not sure I understand this rule. Why should a player forfeit

Re: [Computer-go] Learning related stuff

No need for AlphaGo hardware to find out; any toy problem will suffice to explore different initialization schemes... The main benefit of starting random is to break symmetries (otherwise individual neurons cannot specialize), but there are other approaches that can work even better. Further you

Re: [Computer-go] Source code (Was: Reducing network size? (Was: AlphaGo Zero))

Good point, Roel. Perhaps in the final layers one could make it predict a model of the expected score distribution (before combining with the komi and other rules specific adjustments for handicap stones, pass stones, last-play parity, etc.). Should be easy enough to back-propagate win/loss

Re: [Computer-go] Alphago and solving Go

361! seems like an attempt to estimate an upper bound on the number of games where nothing is captured. On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Gunnar Farnebäck wrote: > Except 361! (~10^768) couldn't plausibly be an estimate of the number of > legal positions, since ignoring the

Re: [Computer-go] Alphago and solving Go

On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 12:52 PM, Darren Cook wrote: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_search explains it as > > "systematically enumerating all possible candidates for the > > solution". > > > > There is nothing systematic about the pseudo random variation > >

Re: [Computer-go] Mailing list working?

Yup, looks like something broke. Here everything that was sent after the 23rd only arrived today (June 7)... Ah well, it's game-over anyway :-) On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 7:51 AM, J. van der Steen < j.van.der.st...@gobase.org> wrote: > > Hi all, > > Is there something wrong with the mailing list? I

Re: [Computer-go] mini-max with Policy and Value network

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <g...@sjeng.org> wrote: > On 22-05-17 15:46, Erik van der Werf wrote: > > Anyway, LMR seems like a good idea, but last time I tried it (in Migos) > > it did not help. In Magog I had some good results with fractional depth

Re: [Computer-go] What was the final score after the counting of AlphaGo-vs-Ke Jie Game #1?

The Chinese counting looked so confusing :-) On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Jim O'Flaherty wrote: > I have now heard that AlphaGo one by 0.5 points. > > > On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 2:00 AM, Jim O'Flaherty < > jim.oflaherty...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The announcer

Re: [Computer-go] mini-max with Policy and Value network

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <g...@sjeng.org> wrote: > On 22-05-17 11:27, Erik van der Werf wrote: > > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <g...@sjeng.org > > <mailto:g...@sjeng.org>> wrote: > > > > ... Thi

Re: [Computer-go] mini-max with Policy and Value network

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Erik van der Werf < erikvanderw...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <g...@sjeng.org> > wrote: >> >> ... This heavy pruning >> by the policy network OTOH seems to be an issue for me.

Re: [Computer-go] mini-max with Policy and Value network

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: > > ... This heavy pruning > by the policy network OTOH seems to be an issue for me. My program has > big tactical holes. Do you do any hard pruning? My engines (Steenvreter,Magog) always had a move predictor (a.k.a.

Re: [Computer-go] dealing with multiple local optima

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Darren Cook wrote: > > But those video games have a very simple optimal policy. Consider Super > Mario: > > if you see an enemy, step on it; if you see a whole, jump over it; if > you see a > > pipe sticking up, also jump over it; etc. > > A bit

Re: [Computer-go] dealing with multiple local optima

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Brian Sheppard via Computer-go < computer-go@computer-go.org> wrote: > In retrospect, I view Schradolph’s paper as evidence that neural networks > have always been surprisingly successful at Go. Like Brugmann’s paper about > Monte Carlo, which was underestimated

Re: [Computer-go] Some experiences with CNN trained on moves by the winning player

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Detlef Schmicker wrote: > Hi Erik, > > as far as I understood it, it was 250ELO in policy network alone ... Two problems: (1) it is a self-play result, (2) the policy was tested as a stand-alone player. A policy trained to win games will beat a

Re: [Computer-go] Some experiences with CNN trained on moves by the winning player

Detlef, I think your result makes sense. For games between near-equally strong players the winning player's moves will not be much better than the loosing player's moves. The game is typically decided by subtle mistakes. Even if nearly all my moves are perfect, just one blunder can throw the game.

Re: [Computer-go] Go Tournament with hinteresting rules

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:58 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > Playing under such conditions might be a challenge for the bots Why? Do you think the humans will collude? ;-) Erik. ___ Computer-go mailing list

Re: [Computer-go] Deep Zen vs Cho Chikun -- Round 1

Hi Ingo, The SGF file you sent is malformed (in this case it's only a minor issue for the date field, but some sgf viewers reject it). Do you know which program was used to create it? (the AP property suggests Many Faces, but it also containes the non-standard MULTIGOGM property suggesting it

Re: [Computer-go] Bug with resigned games in gogui-twogtp

I've seen the same thing some years ago; it did not happen for all versions of GoGui... On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 6:42 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > I just think I found a bug in twogtp 1.4.8 (windows), using the -alternate > flag and two programs that always resign if losing. > >

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

Oh that's silly! IIRC if your bot is not ranked than users can do all kind of cheating in the scoring phase (e.g., mark all your living stones dead). On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 12:07 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto <g...@sjeng.org> wrote: > On 10/05/2016 0:01, Erik van der Werf wrote: > >

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

ht have been rated, eight not. > > Nick > > On 9 May 2016 at 22:16, Erik van der Werf <erikvanderw...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Why not McMahon? (possibly with reduced handicap). It works fine in >> human Go tournaments. >> >> IMO KGS Swiss is pretty bor

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to Zen!

Why not McMahon? (possibly with reduced handicap). It works fine in human Go tournaments. IMO KGS Swiss is pretty boring for most of the time, and the scheduler often seems to have a lot of undesired influence on the final ranking. Also at this point I'm really not that interested any more to

Re: [Computer-go] May KGS bot tournament

Or switch to McMahon / Handicaps On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Sebastian Scheib wrote: > That would be good, something like in other sports where you have a first, > second and so... categories. > > 2016-05-04 11:00 GMT-03:00 Jim O'Flaherty

Re: [Computer-go] Is Go group status recognition by CNN possible?

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:20 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > Likely it is almost impossible for neural nets of "moderate" size > to identify life/death stati of a groups. > No. Neural nets (even shallow ones like we used over a decade ago) are quite capable to identify

Re: [Computer-go] Congratulations to AlphaGo

Congratulations Aja & Deepmind team! Now that the victory is clear, perhaps you can say a bit more on the latest developments? Any major scientific breakthroughs beyond what we already know from the Nature paper? Enjoy the moments! Erik On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Aja Huang

Re: [Computer-go] AlphaGo won the second game!

Very impressive results so far! If it's going to be a clean sweep, I hope we will get to see some handicap games :-) Erik On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Petr Baudis wrote: > In the press conference (https://youtu.be/l-GsfyVCBu0?t=5h40m00s), Lee > Sedol said that while he saw

Re: [Computer-go] Move evalution by expected value, as product of expected winrate and expected points?

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Justin .Gilmer wrote: > I made a similar attempt as Alvaro to predict final ownership. You can > find the code here: https://github.com/jmgilmer/GoCNN/. It's trained to > predict final ownership for about 15000 professional games which were >

Re: [Computer-go] Frisbee Go

The most important skill in this game might be in how accurately you can throw your frisbee. Why take that out? Build real robots! ;-) Erik On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 4:42 PM, "Ingo Althöfer" <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de> wrote: > Dear John, Dear Nick, Dear all, > > > > ... > > > Suppose I want to play

Re: [Computer-go] Everybody should participate!

Don't think so, for most people it was already 'over' years ago, but Go has a great handicap system :-) Op 20 feb. 2016 17:53 schreef Ingo Althöfer <3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de>: > Possibly the last opportunity before "game over". > > Ingo. > > > *Gesendet:* Samstag, 20. Februar 2016 um 15:38 Uhr >

Re: [Computer-go] Mastering the Game of Go with Deep Neural Networks and Tree Search

Wow, excellent results, congratulations Aja & team! I'm surprised to see nothing explicitly on decomposing into subgames (e.g. for semeai). I always thought some kind of adaptive decomposition would be needed to reach pro-strength... I guess you must have looked into this; does this mean that the

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

Congratulations John! Does the number include symmetrical positions (rotations / mirroring / color reversal)? Best, Erik On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Tromp wrote: > It's been a long journey, and now it's finally complete! > >

Re: [Computer-go] 7x7 Go is weakly solved

Hi Aja, This result seems consistent with earlier claimed human solutions for 7x7 dating back to 1989. So what exactly is new? Did he write a program that actually calculates the value? Best, Erik On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Aja Huang wrote: > It's the work by

Re: [Computer-go] 7x7 Go is weakly solved

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Aja Huang <ajahu...@google.com> wrote: > Hi Erik, > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Erik van der Werf < > erikvanderw...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Aja, >> >> This result seems consistent with earlier claimed human

Re: [Computer-go] Strong engine that maximizes score

Unless you can solve the position, maximizing the score involves risk. Strong players tend to avoid unnecessary risk. Erik Op 17 nov. 2015 21:06 schreef "Álvaro Begué" : > I wouldn't say they are "not compatible", since the move that maximizes > score is always in the top

Re: [Computer-go] Standard Computer Go Datasets - Proposal

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Darren Cook wrote: > > The advantages of storing games: > * accountability/traceability > * for programs who want to learn sequences of moves. > Another advantage of storing games is that it is much more efficient; you only have to encode

Re: [Computer-go] Komi 6.5/7.5

We know the true values for some small boards that were solved, and what some strong human players believed those values should be before they were solved. I think that for all cases the humans where either correct, or under-estimating. I don't remember any over-estimations. Here are some cases

Re: [Computer-go] Komi 6.5/7.5

I think he's right. I'm fairly sure 7.5 is a second-player win on 9x9, and for larger boards intuitively it makes sense that the komi should be the same or lower. Also, we know that perfect komi is an integer, for area scoring the likely candidates are 5 and 7, and for territory scoring (and some

Re: [Computer-go] Playout speed... again

You should be able to do at least 50 times faster. Erik On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira wrote: > Hi, I've been searching the mailing list archive but can't find an answer to > this. > > What is currently the number of playouts per thread per second that

Re: [Computer-go] Playout speed... again

your experience? > > Gonçalo > > > On 14/10/2015 23:40, Erik van der Werf wrote: >> >> You should be able to do at least 50 times faster. >> >> Erik >> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Gonçalo Mendes Ferreira <go...@sapo.pt> >> wrote: >

Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournaments - what are your opinions?

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Tobias Graf wrote: > 1. "Reducing computing power." Just let me quote the standings of the last > 9x9 tournament. > 1) 18 Cores > 2) 80 Cores > 3) 12 Cores > 4) 288 Cores > 5) 8 Cores Counting 'cores' is a bad idea; 'core' is mostly just a marketing

Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournaments - what are your opinions?

Hi Nick, Some kind of limit on processing power would be interesting. To me it seems clear that a program like Zen benefits a lot by using more processing power than it's close competitors. A measure that I find reasonable is a limit on number of threads x clock frequency. E.g., a program

Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournaments - what are your opinions?

On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Hideki Kato <hideki_ka...@ybb.ne.jp> wrote: > Erik, > > Erik van der Werf: >

Re: [Computer-go] KGS bot tournaments - what are your opinions?

Although I agree on the research argument (setting no limits encourages work on massive parallel distributed architectures), I do find it a bit funny to see this argument coming from team Zen. As far as I know team Zen does not publish their research findings (or did I miss some papers?). Erik

Re: [Computer-go] Report KGS Slow Tournament

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 3:10 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita wrote: > His paper is also interesting. > Abakus got +130 Elo by online learning. > > Adaptive Playouts in Monte Carlo Tree Search with Policy Gradient > Reinforcement Learning > >

Re: [Computer-go] re good article on playout ending

Steenvreter stops its playouts when it detects a proven win or loss. The evaluation function it uses is an improved version of what I made to solve the small boards. I once tried adding the mercy rule, but it did not improve the program. Erik On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Peter Drake

Re: [Computer-go] open bank

http://www.citeulike.org/group/5884/library ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] yet another go engine : michi-c release 1.4 on GitHub

Nice! FYI: I tried the portable option and compiled for Android, but that seems buggy. The code runs on my phone, and the program does make moves, but many moves are bad (e.g., too many are on the second line). On my PC it seems OK. BR, Erik On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Denis Blumstein

Re: [Computer-go] Mental Imagery in Go - playlist

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Darren Cook dar...@dcook.org wrote: P.S. Isn't brute force the term used to mean that you can see measurable improvements in playing strength just by doubling the CPU speed (and/or memory or other hardware restraint). Alpha-beta with all the trimmings, and

Re: [Computer-go] CGOS

Baseline for worst play? Why? Paris Hilton?? Op 2 mei 2015 11:42 schreef folkert folk...@vanheusden.com: I'm running parishilton it now so that you have a baseline for the worst play. On Sat, May 02, 2015 at 07:21:05AM +0200, Detlef Schmicker wrote: Hi, I set up a CGOS server at home.

Re: [Computer-go] How about a 39x39 tournament?

Personally I think 39x39 is too big. Also, there is a problem with GTP; the protocol does not support boards over 25x25. Erik On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Petr Baudis pa...@ucw.cz wrote: On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 12:17:01PM +0200, remi.cou...@free.fr wrote: Hi, I thought it might be

Re: [Computer-go] running amigogtp using twogtp

Just use GnuGo as referee. On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 1:25 PM, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com wrote: Hi, I'm trying to run amigogtp using twogtp. This fails because it doesn't know final_score. Now I've read that it should be possible (with gogui-twogtp at least) to use a referree

Re: [Computer-go] UCB-1 tuned policy

Many observed that, but not everyone. Op 16 apr. 2015 07:38 schreef David Fotland fotl...@smart-games.com: I didn’t notice a difference. Like everyone else, once I had RAVE implemented and added biases to the tree move selection, I found the UCT term made the program weaker, so I removed it.

Re: [Computer-go] evaluating number of wins versus looses

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Petr Baudis pa...@ucw.cz wrote: The strongest programs often use RAVE or LGRF or something like that, with or without the UCB for tree exploration. Huh, are there any strong programs that got LGRF to work? Erik ___

Re: [Computer-go] Weak bots to run on CGOS

Perhaps AmiGo http://amigogtp.sourceforge.net/ On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Urban Hafner cont...@urbanhafner.com wrote: Hey everyone, I'm currently running Brown (random bot) and GnuGo on CGOS 13x13. Mainly to get a feel for the strength of my own bot. And my bot is really bad. ;) So

Re: [Computer-go] Debugging Orego/KGS: Unknown message type -105

I have no idea about that message, but one thing I do before every tournament is make sure that I have the latest version of kgsGtp. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Peter Drake dr...@lclark.edu wrote: I've finally gotten around to trying to address the issue that Orego faced in the December

Re: [Computer-go] Go AI

Well, at least Zen is on some slides in the presentation. Steenvreter is not mentioned at all even though on 9x9 it won the Olymiad ahead of Mogo and CrazyStone, and beat various Dutch top players (6d 7d). Until 2013 CrazyStone never won a single game against Steenvreter... Erik On Wed, Feb

Re: [Computer-go] Building a database for training CNNs

Hi Álvaro, I've done things like that, except I didn't use games by strong computer opponents (none existed at the time), so just human amateur games. In my experience the critical part is in learning about life death. Once you have that, estimating ownership is fairly easy, asymptotically

Re: [Computer-go] Building a database for training CNNs

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 9:35 PM, Robert Jasiek jas...@snafu.de wrote: On 20.12.2014 17:04, Erik van der Werf wrote: the critical part is in learning about life death. Once you have that, estimating ownership is fairly easy [...] See the following papers for more details: [...] http

Re: [Computer-go] Teaching Deep Convolutional Neural Networks toPlay Go

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 6:16 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita y...@bd.mbn.or.jp wrote: I put two commented games on http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~mmueller/fuego/Convolutional-Neural-Network.html Thank you for the report. It was fun. I'm also surprised CNN can play move 185 in Game 1. CNN uses 1, 2,

Re: [Computer-go] Move Evaluation in Go Using Deep Convolutional Neural Networks

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Aja Huang ajahu...@google.com wrote: We've just submitted our paper to ICLR. We made the draft available at http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~cmaddis/pubs/deepgo.pdf Hi Aja, Wow, very impressive. In fact so impressive, it seems a bit suspicious(*)... If this is real

Re: [Computer-go] Teaching Deep Convolutional Neural Networks to Play Go

Thanks for posting this Hiroshi! Nice to see this neural network revival. It is mostly old ideas, and it is not really surprising to me, but with modern compute power everyone can now see that it works really well. BTW for some related work (not cited), people might be interested to read up on

Re: [computer-go] Dynamic Komi's basics

try: (handicap - 0.5) x 14 Erik 2010/2/11 Le Hir Matthieu mate...@hotmail.fr Hi, I have a few questions concerning dynamic komi, I am not a programmer though and will try my best to be understandable. First, I'm wondering how komi is determined when a dynamic system is used : *

Re: [computer-go] Dynamic Komi's basics

2010/2/11 Jean-loup Gailly jl...@gailly.net A move early in the game is worth about 14 points, not 7.5. While this may be true for professional-level play, the value of the first move for balancing Monte-Carlo playouts towards a 50% win rate should be expected to be lower. Erik

Re: [computer-go] scalability analysis with pachi

will be open soon at GPW-2009). Hideki  There was a bit more information provided in a sequence of posts to this list during that month. I wonder if the paper is out now. - Dave Hillis -Original Message- From: Erik van der Werf erikvanderw...@gmail.com To: computer-go computer-go@computer

Re: [computer-go] scalability analysis with pachi

2010/1/15 dhillism...@netscape.net Thank you for posting these interesting results There seems to be a picture emerging that MCTS engines scale very well in self play, and apparently against other MCTS engines, but not so well against the non-MCTS version of Gnugo. - Dave Hillis Do you

Re: [computer-go] First ever win of a computer against a pro 9P as black (game of Go, 9x9).

2009/10/26 Don Dailey dailey@gmail.com: ... On the one hand we hear that MCTS has reached a dead end and there is no benefit from extra CPU power... Just curious, who actually claimed that and what was it based on? Erik ___ computer-go mailing

Re: [computer-go] Neural networks

In my opinion NeuroGo was quite succesful with neural networks. Magog's main strength came from neural networks. Steenvreter uses 'neural networks' to set priors in the Monte Carlo Tree. Erik On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Petr Baudis pa...@ucw.cz wrote:  Hi!  Is there some high-level

Re: [computer-go] Re: stv is Steenvreter

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Ingo Althöfer 3-hirn-ver...@gmx.de wrote: Nick Wedd explained: stv is Steenvreter.  Its creator is indeed Erik van der Werf, whose KGS account is evdw.  Its name is Dutch for stone eater... Congratulations to Erik van der Warf for the Win! Thanks! By the way

Re: [computer-go] Congratulations to Steenvreter!

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk wrote: Congratulations to Steenvreter, winner of yesterday's KGS bot tournament, with three more wins than its nearest rival! The results are now at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/47/index.html Thanks! As usual, I look

Re: [computer-go] 7x7 komi

. Maybe you are remebering some interesting lines that starts with (3,2) and (2,2): Subject: computer-go: 5x5 Go is solved Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:27:04 -0100 From: Erik van der Werf To: COMPUTER GO MAILING LIST Yesterday my program solved 5x5 Go starting with the first move in the centre

Re: [computer-go] Transpositions in Monte-carlo tree search

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 9:03 PM, Matthew Woodcraft matt...@woodcraft.me.uk wrote: Erik van der Werf wrote: Jonas Kahn wrote: No there is no danger. That's the whole point of weighting with N_{s,a}. N_{s,a} = number of times the node s has been visited, starting with parent a. You can write

Re: [computer-go] static evaluators for tree search

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 8:23 PM, George Dahl george.d...@gmail.com wrote: It is very hard for me to figure out how good a given evaluator is (if anyone has suggestions for this please let me know) without seeing it incorporated into a bot and looking at the bot's performance. There is a

Re: [computer-go] Rules for remote play at the Computer Olympiad

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Nick Wedd n...@maproom.co.uk wrote: 1.) A neural net cannot explain its thinking process because it does not have any. I have used artificial neural nets a lot in my go programs; it is trivial to display predictions, but understanding them is of course not

Re: [computer-go] Rules for remote play at the Computer Olympiad

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Rémi Coulom remi.cou...@univ-lille3.fr wrote: Erik van der Werf wrote: Hi Remi, There is a simpler solution: do not allow remote play at all. I would be in favor of this solution. But this has no chance to make unanimity. Even with a strong majority

Re: [computer-go] Rules for remote play at the Computer Olympiad

Hi Remi, There is a simpler solution: do not allow remote play at all. Something else for the discussion. I would like to have a rule about mandatory displaying the thinking process of the program so that both operators have an idea of what is happening. Especially for remote play I think this

Re: [computer-go] Rules for remote play at the Computer Olympiad

On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Mark Boon tesujisoftw...@gmail.com wrote: On Feb 1, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Erik van der Werf wrote: Something else for the discussion. I would like to have a rule about mandatory displaying the thinking process of the program so that both operators have an idea

Re: [computer-go] Re: WMSG - Scoring

When White is the first player to pass than komi is changed from 6.5 to 7.5 . On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:02 PM, David Fotland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It should make almost no difference, since on odd sized boards with area counting the game result will be the same unless there is a seki

Re: [computer-go] log base e vs. log base 10

When unspecified always assume the natural logarithm. For UCT this does not really matter; only a different tuning constant. log10(x) == ln(x) / ln(10) Erik On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Mark Boon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just now I realized that I'm using the standard Java Math.log()

Re: [computer-go] Monte-Carlo and Japanese rules

IIRC under official Japanese rules at the end of the game all groups with liberties shared between opposing colours are by definition in seki. Therefore eventually (before counting) all dame have to be filled. Further, playing dame points is almost equally bad under Chinese rules as it is under

Re: [computer-go] Transpostions in UCT search

When a child has been sampled often through some other path a naive implementation may initially explore other less frequently visited children first. The new path leading to the transposition may therefore suffer from some initial bias. Using state-action values appears to solve the problem.

Re: [computer-go] Transpostions in UCT search

a one ply search. In a full graph representation the state-action values are the values of the edges. Erik On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Mark Boon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27-okt-08, at 12:45, Erik van der Werf wrote: Using state-action values appears to solve the problem. What

Re: [computer-go] Ending games by two passes

Hi Dave, This is a well-known problem with overly simplified rulesets. TT-advocates don't care about the rare anomalies. Did you notice that under positional superko you cannot take back the ko after *any* number of consecutive passes? This is yet another reason why in some cases filling an eye

Re: [computer-go] komi study with CGOS data

Don, thanks for providing these statistics! Overall it suggests that on CGOS White only has a small advantage. I still don't like this, but it is not nearly as bad as I initially suspected. The initially decreasing percentages are somewhat puzzling. One might speculate that up to a certain level

Re: [computer-go] (early) termination of random playouts?

Sure, some long cycles have multi-stone captures. Erik On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might be right. I have a liberal game length limit on my play-outs so I didn't notice this. Another game limiting rule could be something based on counting the

Re: [computer-go] (early) termination of random playouts?

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 9, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Erik van der Werf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure, some long cycles have multi-stone captures. Can you provide an example? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~wjh/go/rules/bestiary.html

Re: [computer-go] (early) termination of random playouts?

] wrote: Which multi stone capture case still exists under random games? Sent from my iPhone On Oct 9, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Erik van der Werf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Jason House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 9, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Erik van der Werf [EMAIL

Re: [computer-go] 7.5-komi for 9x9 in Beijing

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had heard somewhere that there are some who believe 8.0 is the right komi for 9x9 Chinese. I personally believed for a long time it was 7.0 based on statistical data of games.However that can be misleading. Do you

Re: [computer-go] Another 6x6 analysis.

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 1:23 AM, Gunnar Farnebäck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At http://trac.gnugo.org/6x6.sgf you can find an ongoing analysis of 6x6. Nice! The main line looks correct. It even has an interesting 59-ply deep variation which I don't remember seeing before. Erik

Re: [computer-go] 7.5-komi for 9x9 in Beijing

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-10-08 at 11:47 -0700, Christoph Birk wrote: On Wed, 8 Oct 2008, Don Dailey wrote: much more common.There were just a few games that used 6.5 komi because when I first started CGOS I had set 6.5 by mistake

Re: [computer-go] On ranks 2 and 3 of 9x9 in Beijing

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Gian-Carlo Pascutto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd have some preference for playing the decisive game with komi = 6.5, but apparently thats not possible on KGS. I think with komi = 7.5 white is scoring very high (too high?) in the top games. Last year (when the

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