I agree, but the studies were for adults. I don't believe the safety of rf
exposure to young children over time is settled science. Wouldn't you be
loath to accept such exposure as a PZB member only to find out 20 years down
the road those kids are sick from it ??
Then you should really
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
which costs money, and raises the total cost of healthcare in the U.S.
On Jul 1, 2008, at 5:00 PM, rlsimon wrote:
That's why most medical offices have an employee to do all that!
-Original Message-
From: Janaki Kuruppu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
It is both a good thing and a bad things as this will be a toll road
and it will cost the public to use it until it is paid for.
Next we outsource police, fire, and courts. It will be nice to simply pay
to have my noisy neighbor arrested and more efficient to try cases by
auction.
Do you really want a system that drops out whenever it rains?
So what is the problem? If you have bad service on
my network my people will fix it. I know that parts of
the network are old and up for replacement.
Looks like I touched a raw nerve.
People with wireless data plans should know
I think that it was settled decades ago: no substantiated risk.
Thank you,
Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rlsimon
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 5:36 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US
Here they lure you in with cheap/free phones and stick you with the
service contract. Over in many other countries you pay mucho bucks
up front for the phone then shop for your plan
I guess that is why it is so desirable to have poor schools. If people
could do some rudimentary math they
They do not have a multitude of carriers, and usually have a
government monopoly, or one that is heavily subsidized by the government.
Interesting logic. First we promote the nutty right-wing mantra that
government is bad. Then we let the nutty process run for a couple of
decades and discover
But here we are wiser. Taking cues from Microsoft, US businesses have
learned the benefits of incompatibility. The best way to retain clients
is to make them fearful of using any system but yours.
Well played! Nice job of working a gratuitous potshot at MS into a
conversation that has no
Well played! Nice job of working a gratuitous potshot at MS into a
conversation that has no relation whatsoever to anything that MS does.
Not my fault if you are not paying attention. The strategy of
incompatibility was not invented by the telcos.
Given M$'s history they probably got the strategy from someone else as well.
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well played! Nice job of working a gratuitous potshot at MS into a
conversation that has no relation whatsoever to anything that MS does.
Not my
Who is attacking their system?
It is not always a bad idea for a monopoly.
I am not a right wing nut either.
Ever hear of socialized medicine?
Government monopolies also yield some pretty good airlines. Ever
heard of Lufthansa.
Stewart
At 08:59 AM 7/1/2008, you wrote:
They do not have
Ever hear of socialized medicine?
Most of my relatives live in Europe. Some are doctors. They are very,
very happy with their socialized medicine. Health care is their #1 reason
for not wanting to live in the US. They are amazed how easily Americans
are brainwashed by greedy insurance
Interestingly, in Belgium if I use up the PayGo card to zero, people can
still call me inasmuch as the caller pays and the recipient does not!! Here
in the USA they sell AIR twice; they've got us commin'goin' !! If the
caller is on the same company as I had (Proximus), then nobody pays on
Ever hear of socialized medicine?
Most of my relatives live in Europe. Some are doctors. They are very,
very happy with their socialized medicine. Health care is their #1 reason
for not wanting to live in the US. They are amazed how easily Americans
are brainwashed by greedy insurance
] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 8:49 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
Ever hear of socialized medicine?
Most of my relatives live in Europe. Some are doctors. They are very,
very happy with their socialized medicine. Health care
Not just Europe, but also Canada. My in-laws are retired and have
free health care and prescription coverage. Could not understand why
my daughter had a quite wedding to secure health care coverage and
then plan a big wedding later.
My first child was born in Canada and had sever congenital
WHOA Do you know anything about the Canadian health care system
besides that???
The problem is that the hospitals are not funded enough. The problem
is rationing which heaven forbid we do not want.
If it is critical and an emergency they will treat. Otherwise you
need to wait in line.
The super-duper efficient eh Canadian Health Care system saved
themselves the cost of a MRI. He died 3 months later. Amazingly
enough, from a heart attack.
Yep...that's just what we need. Good ol' soh-she-ah-lized medicine.
Yes, our system is way better.
. None of your conditions are important enough.
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rev. Stewart
Marshall
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:20 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
WHOA Do you
Oh yeah eh. The Canadian Health Care System is a model of efficiency
too. A friend's doctor ordered a MRI for a concern about a possible
Certainly tragic, but what is the screw-up rate at US hospitals? Would it
have been better to not provide MRI in the region because it was too
sparsely
@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
The super-duper efficient eh Canadian Health Care system saved
themselves the cost of a MRI. He died 3 months later. Amazingly
enough, from a heart attack.
Yep...that's just what we need. Good ol' soh-she-ah-lized medicine.
Yes, our system
blame MS for it.
Obviously all the ills of the world are the fault of MS.
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:50 AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
I am a doctor, in the US, and I just spent more than an hour of my morning
on the phone with three different insurance companies to get a required
medication for one of my patients..
But we do not call it rationing. What is the job title for an MBA who
makes life and death medical decisions
Interestingly, in Belgium if I use up the PayGo card to zero, people can
still call me inasmuch as the caller pays and the recipient does not!! Here
in the USA they sell AIR twice; they've got us commin'goin' !! If the
caller is on the same company as I had (Proximus), then nobody pays on
Oh. Wow. I see your point. Our system just sucks so badly that we
should abandon it.
Not my point at all. My point was that neither healthcare system is without
serious flaws.
If I have the money, then the US system can't be beat (let's admit it, if
this woman had had enough money, she'd
You know, if you watch the ER video you will see someone walk by and ignore
the woman lying on the floor. It's a little fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure it
was Gates.
I think I'll take the high road here and just blame MS for it.
Obviously all the ills of the world are the fault of MS.
Until very recently the Feds counted everyone in a zip code as having
broadband if ONE had broadband. I believe they also don't count anything
1.5 and lower as broadband now.
This reason below is probably partly why I sit at 1.3mbit and will according
to a Qwest rep, sit there forever. There is
a
Maserati everywhere over there. Our buy, then dump economic mentality gives me
great concern.
Chad
--- On Tue, 7/1/08, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Date: Tuesday
OK here is how it works very often.
I live in LA (Lower Alabama) on the east side. Last year they came
through and repaved the main north south artery. One intersection
was supposed to be fixed. It did not get done in conjunction with
the paving job. Now this is a multi million dollar fix
It is a highly dangerous intersection. The
fix had been approved and funded and at the last minute they pulled
the funding, why? So they could give it to another part of the state
to lure a business into the area!
Yeah this stuff happens all the time and the criteria stinks
You mean
it...
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Piwowar
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 12:13 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
Thanks, Tom. I wander away for half a day, suddenly we're onto
Have and have nots? When did broadband become a fundamental right?
You are coming from a strange place. Broadband is not a fundamental
right, but it is fundamental to the operation of a modern technological
society. With crappy broadband the US falls further and further behind.
If we want to
No what it did was let us subsidize a project in Mobile while we got nothing.
Mobile is a fast growing area and has way more industry than we
do. Our tax base is very low. (Low industry) We constantly try and
lure industry here, but because the politicians have not put the
roads here we
Interchangable parts doesn't mean interoperability. The guns you refer to
were interchangeable only as far as the same model/manufacturer. When I ran
mac os pre X, after a clean install I ususally made copies of my finder and
system suitcase, I could then given strange problems later on, replace
I agree, but the studies were for adults. I don't believe the safety of rf
exposure to young children over time is settled science. Wouldn't you be
loath to accept such exposure as a PZB member only to find out 20 years down
the road those kids are sick from it ??
I agree, but the studies were for adults. I don't believe the safety
of rf
exposure to young children over time is settled science. Wouldn't you
be
loath to accept such exposure as a PZB member only to find out 20 years
down
the road those kids are sick from it ??
No, I would loathe to
Don't you JOKE about odd socks! It's a serious matter.
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Jeff Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the road those kids are sick from it ??
No, I would loathe to tremble in the corner in fear every time some
crackpot
gets a soapbox and announces that they
Ah yes... Tom is the overseer of all that is good or bad...
Ah yes, when you can't prevail on the merits switch to personal attacks.
I certainly would.
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Interchangable parts doesn't mean interoperability. The guns you refer to
were interchangeable only as far as the same model/manufacturer.
It was the first step. Before then each individual rifle was a unique
item. Then the benefits of uniformity within a plant were discovered.
Then uniformity
According to the physicists, they settled it without the need for any
medical trials at all. The root cause of cancer is the disruption of
molecular bonds, and radio waves aren't energetic enough to do that.
I'm no physicist, but Bob Park (Voodoo Science) is, and that's what he
says...
which costs money, and raises the total cost of healthcare in the U.S.
On Jul 1, 2008, at 5:00 PM, rlsimon wrote:
That's why most medical offices have an employee to do all that!
-Original Message-
From: Janaki Kuruppu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 12:04 PM
Don't give up hope yet. It hasn't been that long since the
NJ legislature opened up the FIOS market by enabling
statewide franchises so that the FIOS companies don't have
negotiate with every little municipality. The FIOS companies
(mostly Verizon) will pick the low-hanging fruit first, the
Florida is doing a lot of public private construction of roads and
bridges and so that is now being explored. Except for opposition from
land owners and NMBY folks and those small towns who say we will loose
all our traffic it looks like it might get started and done in 5
years. Much faster than
A private venture already investing in rural broadband, no guvmint handout
necessary, competing with cellular business models no less. Demand, meet
supply.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/29/AR2008062901
697.html
And I look forward to the nether regions freezing over before I see a
Verizon FIOS truck in my area of central MD of 1 - 5 acre lots mixed
in with 100+ acre family farms. I still don't have reliable cell
coverage (which is not a bad thing when the boss wants to reach
me ...), and
Rural and small town America has outsourced the fire departments for
years - it is called the local volunteer fire department. We also
outsource part of the police force - the local volunteer auxiliary
police who do crowd control and general event security. It seems to
work just fine,
Problem with wireless is the rollout is not complete so there is little room
for the ultimate solution to reliability; redundancy.
-Original Message-
From: Eric S. Sande [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:21 PM
To: rlsimon
Cc: 'Computer Guys Discussion List'
Subject:
It is my understanding that at present most wireless companies lease
space on towers and do not own the towers.
Plus you need to have a tower about every 20 miles.
Stewart
At 12:23 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote:
Problem with wireless is the rollout is not complete so there is little room
for the
AM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
It is my understanding that at present most wireless companies lease
space on towers and do not own the towers.
Plus you need to have a tower about every 20 miles.
Stewart
At 12:23 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote:
Problem
-Original Message-
Correct, to an extent. My town (Middleburg) leases to most of the
carriers on our two water towers. We prohibit private towers inside
town limits. No one wants the eye sore of private towers here.
It was a unanimous vote? *No one* wants rental income from the
: [CGUYS] US is access loser
-Original Message-
Correct, to an extent. My town (Middleburg) leases to most of the
carriers on our two water towers. We prohibit private towers inside
town limits. No one wants the eye sore of private towers here.
It was a unanimous vote? *No one
I find it strange how many of us will tolerate all sorts of technological
eyesores on our streets: power lines, telephone poles, traffic lights,
mailboxes, street lights, lines for phones and cable, satellite dishes,
cars, trucks, roads, etc, but lose all rationality when it comes to cell
towers.
Yes but mailboxes, street lights, lines for phones and cable, satellite
dishes, etc don't emit harmful waves that will let you cook an egg. :-
)
I heard it was the mailboxes that beam messages into your head.
I'm starting a petition to have these dangerous boxes removed.
I heard it was the mailboxes that beam messages into your head.
Hey, beaming messages into your head is my department.
I'm the guy who is part of the vast right wing conspiracy.
Not only do I work for the phone company but I also
belong to the NRA and possibly the Republican Party,
although
I'm on the Planning/Zoning Board of our town. Recently we reviewed an app
to put up a tower along the main road on a piece of land behing fire company
#2 with good rental $$ for the town. I objected given it is kiddycorner
across the street from the new school. They brought in a big gun (prof
I wonder if it is a settled issue or if there is still any doubt??
There's doubt about the amount of RF radiation you get from
a handset transmitting next to your brain.
I doubt that the transmissions from a tower would be an issue
unless you were right next to the antenna. Like within a few
I know a church that has gotten a nice monthly income from leasing
space inside their bell tower for Antenna space.
Stewart
I have seen some well camouflaged cell towers made to look like pine
trees. Not bad at all. I would expect being in a dead zone would be
depressing on property values
radiation during mass.
:-)
-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rev. Stewart
Marshall
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:55 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
I know a church that has gotten
Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric S. Sande
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 2:57 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
I wonder if it is a settled issue or if there is still any doubt??
There's doubt about
Well it is a Lutheran Mass so we wear our aluminum hats. :-)
Stewart
At 05:09 PM 6/30/2008, you wrote:
Hmm... on top of a church bell tower, eh? What better way for all that
radiation to be spread out from the sheer height alone and who ever said
radiation only goes outwards and not
I am not sure what it is with many of you and cell phones but my
signal and reception and clarity are pretty darn good. I live in
just this side of the hinterland and we have a very hilly area
(Antennas are placed on the high points) Even in many supposedly
rural areas I have good coverage
: Monday, June 30, 2008 3:17 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] US is access loser
I am not sure what it is with many of you and cell phones but my
signal and reception and clarity are pretty darn good. I live in
just this side of the hinterland and we have a very hilly
I am not sure what it is with many of you and cell phones but my
signal and reception and clarity are pretty darn good.
A few factors play into this. Inside steel framed office buildings
(well actually reinforced concrete, mostly, where I am) you are
in a Faraday cage. If you aren't near a
I live in the official hinterland ...pop 1100. And I tried fones from the
big4 ...no dice for tmo or next/spr (even with an antenna on a tower right
behind our town hall 1mi away) ...verizon had some signal, but ATT gives me
5 bars at my desk (so I can ramble on all day) and at my kitchen table
I just read that iPhone service plans with unlimited data start at $24
USD in Hong Kong. That is about 1/4 of the lowest US price.
That's what we mean by being losers.
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Yeah, but they have to stand in long iPhone data plan lines to get it. Then
they have to go stand in the voice plan line. I don't even want to think
about the accessories line.
-Original Message-
I just read that iPhone service plans with unlimited data start at $24
USD in Hong Kong.
They do not have a multitude of carriers, and usually have a
government monopoly, or one that is heavily subsidized by the government.
I am not sure if many knew this but recently Bell Canada (The
Canadian offshoot of the Bell Companies) Was recently cleared to
allow the Ontario Teachers
Thanks to Gerald for pointing once more to the archaic wireless system we
enjoy, seemingly without protest. In 1886, captains of industry here decided
that, yes, it was a good idea to establish standard gauge railroads. Before
that, cargo had to be transferred upon arriving at a different
GSM is not a world standard. It is used in a good portion of the
world but CDMA is also recognized as a standard.
The reason for lack of signal is not CDMA vs. GSM it is lack of antennas!!
As I stated earlier you must have antennas about every 20 miles to
get good coverage. ( I think it
Precisely. The Internet was created using public tax dollars and then
given away by corrupt politicians to greedy corporations. The public has
been on the short end of battle after battle. What you are seeing in the
US is the result of media consolidation and the giving away and selling
of our
On Jun 29, 2008, at 10:51 AM, rlsimon wrote:
On NPR there was a story claiming the US was a winner initially in the
lineup of those nations affording access to broadband internet
being amongst
the top 4 while now we are 15th behing Luxembourg ...I know this
for sure
having recently visited
On NPR there was a story claiming the US was a winner initially in the
lineup of those nations affording access to broadband internet being
amongst the top 4 while now we are 15th behing Luxembourg ...I know
this for sure having recently visited Belgium where ...
While it is certainly true
There is another stark difference in that we are much farther apart
than any of those European countries.
Put in population density and see this difference.
Luxembourg 481/sq.mi.
Belgium 892/sq.mi.
USA 80/sq.mi.
Years ago the rural phone customers used to
Put another way, the US has to wire up 3,798 Luxembourgs. :)
This is such silly logic that it is hard to respond.
Compare the difficulty of burying fiber in an urban area to doing the
same in a rural area. In the city they are lucky to bury a couple hundred
feet in a day. In rural areas the
It may be true that most Americans are happy with what they
have, because they don't know of anything better (ignorance is bliss).
People were relatively happy with dial-up until they experienced
broadband. But most of us have limited options as far as broadband goes.
I have a
1.) If you are trying too bury it you are stupid. Of course you
cant bury it in urban areas that does not make sense. Pole to pole
is much faster and easier. (In some urban areas they set up
underground conduits where it is much easier and much better to do
underground.)
2.) Broadband
I have FIOS at home and a shared T1 at work. Talk about a let down.
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Stephen Brownfield
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It may be true that most Americans are happy with what they have,
because they don't know of anything better (ignorance is bliss). People
I have FIOS at home and a shared T1 at work. Talk about a let down.
Which one aren't you happy with?
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** policy, calmness, a member map, and
My FIOS speed is around that of a T3 no problems there. The
office T! gets bogged down pretty easily being shared by around 20 people..
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Eric S. Sande [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have FIOS at home and a shared T1 at work. Talk about a let down.
Which one aren't
On Jun 29, 2008, at 3:22 PM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
I have FIOS at home and a shared T1 at work. Talk about a let down.
which?
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** policy,
1.) If you are trying too bury it you are stupid. Of course you
cant bury it in urban areas that does not make sense. Pole to pole
is much faster and easier. (In some urban areas they set up
underground conduits where it is much easier and much better to do
underground.)
We can do it
Europeans aren't dealing with the same scale issues I am.
You must not be using a Piwowar projection map. The US is about the size of
Rhode Island on a Mercator map and Luxemburg looks to be the size of China.
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OK ...here goes!!
I just got back from Belgium visiting the family for the first time since
2001.
Already in 2001 when we were going along the highway from Brussels to the
eastern city of Liege with the car radio turned off, the radio suddenly
turned itself on and gave us a traffic accident
Take a look at this!! Doel, Belgium.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/DoelMolen.jpg/451px
-DoelMolen.jpg
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Lest I remind you that most of these enterprises are government
controlled and government funded enterprises.
Yes there is a density of Antennas but that is the only way to get coverage.
Most places here do not have service because no one will allow them
to place an antenna for service.
Am I correct in assuming that many of these other countries have
some kind of government support in developing a broadband system?
Yeah, that's a point. I don't believe we ever got a dime out of
the government outside of the Federal Cost Recovery Surcharge,
which was actually pretty big money,
I am loath to expect the optical solution will stand the traffic demands
over the short term. I can't understand why more has not gone into wireless
as a longer term solution with less disruptive infrastructure demands albeit
the view of a tower herethere which pales in comparison to the
I am loath to expect the optical solution will stand the traffic demands
over the short term. I can't understand why more has not gone into
wireless
as a longer term solution with less disruptive infrastructure demands
albeit
the view of a tower herethere which pales in comparison to the
Lest I remind you that most of these enterprises are government
controlled and government funded enterprises.
Do you refuse to drive on any roadway that was not privately built?
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Wireless is fine but so far it is a sub-optimal technology in terms
of speed and reliability.
Do you really want a system that drops out whenever it rains?
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I have FIOS at home and a shared T1 at work. Talk about a let down.
Why would anyone use T1 today? T1 is 1.5 Mbps. That was considered fast
10 years ago, but is crappy even by US standards.
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Been there done that not interested.
Stewart
At 07:40 PM 6/29/2008, you wrote:
Wireless is fine but so far it is a sub-optimal technology in terms
of speed and reliability.
Do you really want a system that drops out whenever it rains?
Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
You might be better off driving on private roads in some parts.
To get from Panama City, FL. north you have to take an old 4 lane
public access road that goes through every town with appropriately
slow speeds. There has been talk of a publicly constructed 4 lane or
more interstate
Do you really want a system that drops out whenever it rains?
I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. If you are
saying that a copper network is subject to weather I'll
agree. That's why we are replacing it. Its physics.
If you are talking about wireless, well your call will
eventually
I reverse commute. T1 is the best they can get out in the sticks
without paying through the nose. We get spoiled in the close in DC
suburbs.
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 8:45 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have FIOS at home and a shared T1 at work. Talk about a let down.
Why would
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