Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Congratulations on your ability to Google information that has always been
public. I have little interest in talking to people who make false
accusations of impropriety. When you grow up you'll understand.

On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 6:01 AM  wrote:

> Hi,
> I respect your wishes, however misguided, to protect the anonymity of
> your fellow board members Scott Miller, Oskar Sandberg, and Adam
> Langley, and your undoubtedly distinguished secretary Steven Starr.
> However, they and you should know that as a nonprofit corporation
> registered in the United States, specifically Austin, Texas, their
> names are not private information.
>
> You are making decisions with respect not simply to a community of
> people who's only investment is time, but also to an actual, registered
> corporation, EIN 95-4864038.  You do not have the right to privacy in
> making these decisions.  You do not have the right to anonymity from
> those who contribute cash to you.  I am not qualified as a lawyer to
> state what disclosures or decision making powers you owe to those who
> fund you.
>
> I am, however, qualified to state that you do not get to hide in the
> dark.  Operating a corporation comes with some costs; among them,
> accountability.  Anyone can quite easily fine the EIN of The Freenet
> Project Inc, and from there use the IRS's handy free tool located
> here[1] to get to a nice data page with this information.
>
> [1]: https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/
>
> I have uploaded a copy of the Freenet projects 2019 tax return to
> Freenet[2].  Not Freenet Classic; in fact because I used the most
> modern compression scheme in inserting it Freenet Classic will fail to
> load this file.  This is public domain information; you knew that when
> you submitted it, because it said in nice bold letters that it was
> "Open to public inspection" and that you should "not enter social
> security numbers on this form".
>
> [2]: CHK@GkFzsiuQV8QB6R9t7du3lsFPk9NJB0GyhDQzHwn9EFc
> ,pDW2x5PL6ett9a0mHLHvlqnhy73rEhQ4UVS8yU2yCmk,AAMC--8/954864038_201912_990EZ_2020101017366462.pdf
>
> You have the right to lie, and to obscure public information.  What you
> lack is the right for others not to release that information.  I find
> it very interesting that you claim to work 14 hours per week in service
> of Freenet, when it seems that nobody can attest to you doing any work
> at all.
>
> That's all.  Sorry for nerco'ing the thread, but I've been pretty busy
> for a while and thus wasn't aware of this occurring.
>
> Oh, and one more thing.  As a proud member of the next generation, at
> the noble young age of 19, I want to state, on the record, that I am
> strongly opposed to this change.  You're a Gen X'er.  Only one step
> above a boomer.  And yet you claim to know what will be good for a
> future that you have sabotaged?  Our world is burning, people are
> dying, and yet you seem to believe that because you started a project
> before I was even born you have the right to rename it and force others
> to do hours of work on your behalf?  At least go to the effort of
> updating your own Wikipedia page to clarify that, contrary to the
> understanding of every person under the sun, "freenet" refers to to a
> specific model of communication program but to a "mission statement".
>
> Statistically speaking, you will be dead before the 20-year horizon
> you're so concerned about will come to pass.  I'll still be here,
> trying to clean up the mess you created through your narcissism in
> beliveing that you have any rights over this project simply because you
> hold the corporate presidency.  Freenode is dead.  Don't kill Freenet
> too.
>
> Calum Morgan McConnell
> Electrical and Computer Engineering Student
> Lafayette College
>
> P.S.  I'd include my address here, too, since I am pointing the world
> to where yours can be found.  But I haven't founded any corporations,
> and I certainly haven't decided to skimp on paying for a PO Box rather
> than just include the address to my 3 bedroom family home on the tax
> returns.  So you'll just have to hunt that information down yourself.
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

Thank you Peter and Zlatin, nice to hear from you after all this time :)


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

Thank you, Hakimi :)

I don't think anyone in this thread seriously thinks I'm a racist. There is
just a certain type of person who thinks they can get what they want by
throwing false accusations.

These people are toxic and I have zero tolerance for them. They're bullies
and like most bullies - they're cowards who run away when someone stands up
to them. I think more and more people are slowly learning this.

Thank you again for your support.



On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:26 AM Hakimi Abdul Jabar <
hakimibinabduljabar1...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ladies & Gentlemen,
>
> I've been working on FREENET dev etc. for more than 2 DECADES ever since
> Ian bravely made the Project objectives close to our hearts and minds.
>
> For more than 2 Decades now, I have never seen any racist remark from the
> Founder-Developer, Ian Clarke on the dev platform and on Facebook and any
> other socmedia.
>
> We've got numerous contributors of ethnic background right here and racial
> overtones are Non-Existent.  Thanks partly to Ian.  We NEVER see Ian
> discriminatively making remarks or by prejudicial actions that borders on
> Racism for more than 20 years now.
>
> Let us continue with the same spirit of camaraderie and eager anticipation
> that have been pushing us into the doors of success.  I still have the same
> passion for Freenet ever since I graduated with my law degree from Univ. of
> Wolverhampton in 1998 and was studying to be a full-fledged lawyer.  Ian
> who had graduated from varsity around the same time who had came out with
> this wonderful and yet fanciful IDEA is amazing!  LMAO
>
> Just remember this most important fact! Unlike the PayPal and Google devs,
> we're not Billionaires!  Hahahahaha!
>
> For FREENET fellas!
>
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 at 01:09, Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one
>> who brought racism into the conversation in the first place.
>>
>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like
>> it, I suggest you touch grass.
>>
>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee <
>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not,
>>> it wasn't funny.
>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get
>>> involved in the freenet dispute.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Russell Glenn 
>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM
>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>>>
>>> Mr. Ian Clarke,
>>>
>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain,
>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision
>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted
>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following:
>>>
>>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway.
>>>
>>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did
>>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of
>>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway.
>>> Proof:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html
>>>
>>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism
>>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will
>>> NEVER be.
>>>
>>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke:
>>> Millions of people died due to racism.
>>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that.
>>> Nobody is.
>>>
>>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have
>>> produced on this list in the previous days.
>>>
>>> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request
>>> you to:
>>> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and
>>> * leave its board and
>>> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer team and
>>> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and
>>> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects.
>>>
>>> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into positions
>>> where power is wielded.
>>>
>>> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is still
>>> constructed of active members of the community,
>&g

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

Child.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:16 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> i'm sure "truth social" would be acceptable. maybe "oan" too...
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* DJ Amireh 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 11:35 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>
> So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed to
> cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I
> allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change
> your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to
> bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of
> closed minded.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not
>> been paying attention?
>>
>> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart
>> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled.
>>
>> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll
>> need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>
>>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be
>>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and
>>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American
>>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay
>>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which
>>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this
>>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake
>>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual
>>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as
>>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a
>>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin
>>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to
>>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the
>>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to
>>> use it to mobilize a range of passions."
>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything
>>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious.
>>>>
>>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when
>>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're
>>>> talking about a far-left ideology.
>>>>
>>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological
>>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone
>>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*.
>>>>
>>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a
>>>> bubble.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using
>>>>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may
>>>>> enlighten you:
>>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I
>>>>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the
>>>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of
>>>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right
>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic
>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory
>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that 
>>>>> Western
>>>>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the
>>>>> basis of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western
>>>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The
>>>>> conspiracy theory misrep

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

With that word salad, I'm done with this thread.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:52 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:

> Sounds like you have already thoroughly made your mind up and any evidence
> that anyone tried to bring to you to show you why you may be mistaken will
> be immediately dismissed as coming from some illegitimate demonic "mind
> virus" that only you can perceive yet can't extrapolate to anybody else
> what would constitute a legitimate or illegitimate source.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:42 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> You can cite anything you want, you're just not entitled to the time it
>> would take me to debunk a bunch of pseudoscientific nonsense. I'm not your
>> butler.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:35 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>
>>> So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed
>>> to cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I
>>> allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change
>>> your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to
>>> bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of
>>> closed minded.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not
>>>> been paying attention?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart
>>>> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled.
>>>>
>>>> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but
>>>> you'll need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be
>>>>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism 
>>>>> and
>>>>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American
>>>>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay
>>>>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which
>>>>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses 
>>>>> this
>>>>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake
>>>>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual
>>>>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as
>>>>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a
>>>>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin
>>>>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to
>>>>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the
>>>>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to
>>>>> use it to mobilize a range of passions."
>>>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything
>>>>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when
>>>>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're
>>>>>> talking about a far-left ideology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological
>>>>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone
>>>>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in
>>>>>> a bubble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion
>>>>>>> using the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> may enlighten you:
>>>>>>> http

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

You can cite anything you want, you're just not entitled to the time it
would take me to debunk a bunch of pseudoscientific nonsense. I'm not your
butler.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:35 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:

> So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed to
> cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I
> allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change
> your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to
> bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of
> closed minded.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not
>> been paying attention?
>>
>> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart
>> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled.
>>
>> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll
>> need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>
>>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be
>>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and
>>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American
>>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay
>>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which
>>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this
>>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake
>>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual
>>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as
>>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a
>>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin
>>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to
>>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the
>>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to
>>> use it to mobilize a range of passions."
>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything
>>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious.
>>>>
>>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when
>>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're
>>>> talking about a far-left ideology.
>>>>
>>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological
>>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone
>>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*.
>>>>
>>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a
>>>> bubble.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using
>>>>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may
>>>>> enlighten you:
>>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I
>>>>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the
>>>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of
>>>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right
>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic
>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory
>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that 
>>>>> Western
>>>>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the
>>>>> basis of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western
>>>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The
>>>>> conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School
>>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being
>>>>> responsible for modern progressive
>>>>> <h

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not been
paying attention?

Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart
your gish gallop of stuff you just googled.

If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll
need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:

> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be relying
> on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and the
> Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American Far
> Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay examines
> the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which has been
> deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this
> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake
> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual
> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as
> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a
> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin
> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to
> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the
> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to
> use it to mobilize a range of passions."
> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything
>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious.
>>
>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when they
>> use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're talking
>> about a far-left ideology.
>>
>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological
>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone
>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*.
>>
>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a
>> bubble.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using
>>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may
>>> enlighten you:
>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I
>>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the
>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of
>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that 
>>> Western
>>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the basis
>>> of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western
>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The
>>> conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being responsible
>>> for modern progressive
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_politics> movements, identity
>>> politics <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics>, and political
>>> correctness <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness>,
>>> claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion> of Western society via a
>>> planned culture war <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war> that
>>> undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism> and seeks
>>> to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s."
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if you
>>>> don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government or
>>>> private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals.
>>>>
>>>

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything remotely
related to woke ideology? That's hilarious.

The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when they
use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're talking
about a far-left ideology.

What you're talking about is a form of terminological guilt-by-association,
a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone simply by them *mentioning
the name of an ideology*.

It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a
bubble.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:

> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using the
> terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may
> enlighten you:
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I
> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the
> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of
> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that Western
> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the basis of
> continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western culture
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The conspiracy theory
> misrepresents the Frankfurt School
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being responsible
> for modern progressive
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_politics> movements, identity
> politics <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics>, and political
> correctness <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness>,
> claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion> of Western society via a
> planned culture war <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war> that
> undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism> and seeks
> to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s."
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if you
>> don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain.
>>
>> I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government or
>> private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals.
>>
>> Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do with
>> fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of
>> corruption, far more dangerous.
>>
>> Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if it
>> would help. Do you live in an English-speaking country?
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of corporations
>>> and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not allowed to be
>>> spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and shareholders "know
>>> what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a "postmodern
>>> neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political buzzwords being
>>> thrown around to label, demean and dismiss any opposition to the corporate
>>> takeover of speech and thought.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - in
>>>> the US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>.
>>>>
>>>> Here is an excellent book
>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B>
>>>>  about
>>>> it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you
>>>> think!
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee <
>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I take woke  to mean definition 1.
>>>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
>>>>> what is so wrong with that?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 2

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

UK party politics is definitely off-topic for this list.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:54 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> I didnt say thats what free speech is, I said that's what it seems to be,
> that's what our government in the UK is like anyway. demonizing everyone
> from refugees to disabled people, but then crying wolf every time someone
> throws something vaguely nasty like "tory scum" back at them, after they've
> dished it out.
>
> yes, I know exactly what freenet is, surely you've seen my many emails
> about accessibility of the project, particularly freemail and the captchas.
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ian Clarke 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 10:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:48 PM craig mcgee <
> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> "free speech" these days also seems to be, unfortunately, anything that
>> demeans minorities, but anything to criticise those demeaning minorities is
>> obviously not free speech and should be demonized immediately.
>>
>
> No, that's definitely not what free speech is, don't be silly.
>
> If you hate free speech so much, why are you on earth are you on this
> mailing list? Do you know what Freenet is?
>
> So weird.
>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>
>

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:48 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> "free speech" these days also seems to be, unfortunately, anything that
> demeans minorities, but anything to criticise those demeaning minorities is
> obviously not free speech and should be demonized immediately.
>

No, that's definitely not what free speech is, don't be silly.

If you hate free speech so much, why are you on earth are you on this
mailing list? Do you know what Freenet is?

So weird.


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if you
don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain.

I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government or
private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals.

Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do with
fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of
corruption, far more dangerous.

Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if it would
help. Do you live in an English-speaking country?

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:

> The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of corporations
> and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not allowed to be
> spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and shareholders "know
> what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a "postmodern
> neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political buzzwords being
> thrown around to label, demean and dismiss any opposition to the corporate
> takeover of speech and thought.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - in the
>> US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>.
>>
>> Here is an excellent book
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B>
>>  about
>> it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you
>> think!
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee <
>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I take woke  to mean definition 1.
>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
>>> what is so wrong with that?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>>>
>>> I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as part of
>>> a small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young age. Even as a
>>> child I instantly recognized it as evil.
>>>
>>> I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or conservatives. I
>>> think they each bring a critical perspective.
>>>
>>> I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left.
>>>
>>> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the
>>> greatest threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already done
>>> incredible damage.
>>>
>>> Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote me on
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your support on the name change :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet classic" is
>>>> perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the classic
>>>> version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like that. And
>>>> I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally as a
>>>> member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was
>>>> disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. The next
>>>> generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of
>>>> "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I was
>>>> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold in high
>>>> regards.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny.
>>>>> I'm not seeking your approval.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee <
>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ian,
>>>>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it
>>>>>> funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to
>>>>>> state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>&

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - in the US
everyone views "woke" as a pejorative
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>.

Here is an excellent book
<https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B>
about
it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you
think!

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> I take woke  to mean definition 1.
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke
> what is so wrong with that?
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ian Clarke 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>
> I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as part of a
> small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young age. Even as a
> child I instantly recognized it as evil.
>
> I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or conservatives. I
> think they each bring a critical perspective.
>
> I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left.
>
> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the greatest
> threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already done
> incredible damage.
>
> Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote me on
> that.
>
> Thanks for your support on the name change :)
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:
>
>> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet classic" is
>> perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the classic
>> version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like that. And
>> I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally as a
>> member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was
>> disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. The next
>> generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of
>> "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I was
>> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold in high
>> regards.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>>
>>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny. I'm
>>> not seeking your approval.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee <
>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ian,
>>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it
>>>> funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to
>>>> state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that.
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>>>>
>>>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly
>>>> one who brought racism into the conversation in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like
>>>> it, I suggest you touch grass.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee <
>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not,
>>>>> it wasn't funny.
>>>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get
>>>>> involved in the freenet dispute.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> *From:* Russell Glenn 
>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr. Ian Clarke,
>>>>>
>>>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain,
>>>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision
>>>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted
>>>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain name

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as part of a
small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young age. Even as a
child I instantly recognized it as evil.

I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or conservatives. I
think they each bring a critical perspective.

I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left.

The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the greatest
threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already done
incredible damage.

Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote me on
that.

Thanks for your support on the name change :)


On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh  wrote:

> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet classic" is
> perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the classic
> version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like that. And
> I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally as a
> member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was
> disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. The next
> generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of
> "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I was
> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold in high
> regards.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny. I'm
>> not seeking your approval.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee <
>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it funny,
>>> that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to state my
>>> opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>>>
>>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one
>>> who brought racism into the conversation in the first place.
>>>
>>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like
>>> it, I suggest you touch grass.
>>>
>>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee <
>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not,
>>>> it wasn't funny.
>>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get
>>>> involved in the freenet dispute.
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> *From:* Russell Glenn 
>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Ian Clarke,
>>>>
>>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain,
>>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision
>>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted
>>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following:
>>>>
>>>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did
>>>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of
>>>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway.
>>>> Proof:
>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html
>>>>
>>>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism
>>>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will
>>>> NEVER be.
>>>>
>>>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke:
>>>> Millions of people died due to racism.
>>>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that.
>>>> Nobody is.
>>>>
>>>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have
>>>> produced on this list in the previous days.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request
>>>> 

Trolls will be removed from mailing list

[Ian Clarke]

Just a note, Russell Glenn (or whoever he is) has been removed from this
mailing list, I have zero tolerance for trolls who throw around false
accusations of racism, or who harass people (Russell is the idiot who
spammed the Locutus Matrix room).

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny. I'm
not seeking your approval.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> Ian,
> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it funny,
> that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to state my
> opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that.
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ian Clarke 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>
> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one
> who brought racism into the conversation in the first place.
>
> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like it,
> I suggest you touch grass.
>
> I'm going to start blocking you idiots.
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee <
> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not, it
>> wasn't funny.
>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get
>> involved in the freenet dispute.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Russell Glenn 
>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM
>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>>
>> Mr. Ian Clarke,
>>
>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain,
>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision
>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted
>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following:
>>
>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway.
>>
>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did
>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of
>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway.
>> Proof: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html
>>
>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism
>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will
>> NEVER be.
>>
>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke:
>> Millions of people died due to racism.
>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that.
>> Nobody is.
>>
>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have
>> produced on this list in the previous days.
>>
>> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request
>> you to:
>> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and
>> * leave its board and
>> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer team and
>> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and
>> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects.
>>
>> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into positions
>> where power is wielded.
>>
>> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is still
>> constructed of active members of the community,
>> and not of those who have been inactive for decades as Mr. Daigniere
>> stated,
>> I join those who request leadership is transferred to the
>> leading developer.
>> To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide.
>>
>> Should he not accept the position, I would vouch for the previous lead
>> developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the choice of the two.
>>
>> Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads this email to state
>> their support. We must stand united against racism.
>>
>> - Russell Glenn
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>
>

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list

[Ian Clarke]

Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one
who brought racism into the conversation in the first place.

I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like it,
I suggest you touch grass.

I'm going to start blocking you idiots.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not, it
> wasn't funny.
> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get
> involved in the freenet dispute.
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Russell Glenn 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM
> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
>
> Mr. Ian Clarke,
>
> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain,
> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision
> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted
> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following:
>
> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway.
>
> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did
> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of
> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway.
> Proof: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html
>
> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism
> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will
> NEVER be.
>
> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke:
> Millions of people died due to racism.
> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that.
> Nobody is.
>
> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have
> produced on this list in the previous days.
>
> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request
> you to:
> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and
> * leave its board and
> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer team and
> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and
> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects.
>
> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into positions
> where power is wielded.
>
> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is still
> constructed of active members of the community,
> and not of those who have been inactive for decades as Mr. Daigniere
> stated,
> I join those who request leadership is transferred to the
> leading developer.
> To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide.
>
> Should he not accept the position, I would vouch for the previous lead
> developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the choice of the two.
>
> Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads this email to state
> their support. We must stand united against racism.
>
> - Russell Glenn
>
>

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Ongoing harassment

[Ian Clarke]

Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 5:30 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> its not even much of a change, i mean id understand if the name got
> changed to something provocatively racist or something, that wouldnt be on,
> but freenet to freenet classic, oh god! how will I cope with that change?
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ian Clarke 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 11:27 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>
> I know, you'd think the world was ending.
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 5:25 PM craig mcgee <
> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> wow, all over a name change!!
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 11:20 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>>
>> We're changing the name of the original 23-year-old Freenet software to
>> "Freenet Classic", and a new Freenet is under development, see:
>> https://freenet.org/
>>
>> A small number of people disagree with this decision and have been
>> throwing a very immature tantrum about it. They will tire themselves out
>> soon enough.
>>
>> See the recent announcement thread on this list for details.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 3:50 PM craig mcgee <
>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> so whats this harrasment. this is the first ive heard of it.
>>> people who prefer protonmail to freenet or something? not sure why
>>> people need to harrass others over that, "which project is better or more
>>> privacy protecting" why cant people just discuss it like adults and have a
>>> debate?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:46 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee <
>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have
>>>> any method of doing that, to be fair.
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>>>>
>>>> You're on a mailing list.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No emails please
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>>>> gesendet.
>>>>> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke :
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now
>>>>>> extended to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me
>>>>>> and the project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To the person or persons doing this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your
>>>>>>anonymity
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your
>>>>>>behavior
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Grow up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ian.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ian Clarke
>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>
>

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Ongoing harassment

[Ian Clarke]

I know, you'd think the world was ending.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 5:25 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> wow, all over a name change!!
>
> - Original Message -----
> *From:* Ian Clarke 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 11:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>
> We're changing the name of the original 23-year-old Freenet software to
> "Freenet Classic", and a new Freenet is under development, see:
> https://freenet.org/
>
> A small number of people disagree with this decision and have been
> throwing a very immature tantrum about it. They will tire themselves out
> soon enough.
>
> See the recent announcement thread on this list for details.
>
> Ian.
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 3:50 PM craig mcgee <
> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> so whats this harrasment. this is the first ive heard of it.
>> people who prefer protonmail to freenet or something? not sure why people
>> need to harrass others over that, "which project is better or more privacy
>> protecting" why cant people just discuss it like adults and have a debate?
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:46 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>>
>> True.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee <
>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have any
>>> method of doing that, to be fair.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>>>
>>> You're on a mailing list.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald  wrote:
>>>
>>>> No emails please
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>>> gesendet.
>>>> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke :
>>>>
>>>>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now
>>>>> extended to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me
>>>>> and the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> To the person or persons doing this:
>>>>>
>>>>>    - ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your
>>>>>anonymity
>>>>>
>>>>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your
>>>>>behavior
>>>>>
>>>>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of
>>>>>you
>>>>>
>>>>> Grow up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ian Clarke
>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>>>>>
>>>>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> Founder, The Freenet Project
> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>
>

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Ongoing harassment

[Ian Clarke]

We're changing the name of the original 23-year-old Freenet software to
"Freenet Classic", and a new Freenet is under development, see:
https://freenet.org/

A small number of people disagree with this decision and have been throwing
a very immature tantrum about it. They will tire themselves out soon enough.

See the recent announcement thread on this list for details.

Ian.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 3:50 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> so whats this harrasment. this is the first ive heard of it.
> people who prefer protonmail to freenet or something? not sure why people
> need to harrass others over that, "which project is better or more privacy
> protecting" why cant people just discuss it like adults and have a debate?
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ian Clarke 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:46 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>
> True.
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee <
> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have any
>> method of doing that, to be fair.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Ian Clarke 
>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>>
>> You're on a mailing list.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald  wrote:
>>
>>> No emails please
>>>
>>> --
>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>>> gesendet.
>>> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke :
>>>
>>>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now
>>>> extended to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me
>>>> and the project.
>>>>
>>>> To the person or persons doing this:
>>>>
>>>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your
>>>>anonymity
>>>>
>>>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your
>>>>behavior
>>>>
>>>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of
>>>>you
>>>>
>>>> Grow up.
>>>>
>>>> Ian.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ian Clarke
>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>>>>
>>>

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Ongoing harassment

[Ian Clarke]

True.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee <
craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:

> maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have any
> method of doing that, to be fair.
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ian Clarke 
> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment
>
> You're on a mailing list.
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald  wrote:
>
>> No emails please
>>
>> --
>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
>> gesendet.
>> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke :
>>
>>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended
>>> to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the
>>> project.
>>>
>>> To the person or persons doing this:
>>>
>>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your
>>>anonymity
>>>
>>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your
>>>behavior
>>>
>>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you
>>>
>>> Grow up.
>>>
>>> Ian.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian Clarke
>>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>>> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>>>
>>

Re: Ongoing harassment

[Ian Clarke]

You can unsubscribe here: https://ml.freenetproject.org/v1/

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald  wrote:

> No emails please
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke :
>
>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended
>> to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the
>> project.
>>
>> To the person or persons doing this:
>>
>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your
>>anonymity
>>
>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your
>>behavior
>>
>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you
>>
>> Grow up.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> --
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>>
>

Re: Ongoing harassment

[Ian Clarke]

You're on a mailing list.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald  wrote:

> No emails please
>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail
> gesendet.
> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke :
>
>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended
>> to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the
>> project.
>>
>> To the person or persons doing this:
>>
>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your
>>anonymity
>>
>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your
>>behavior
>>
>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you
>>
>> Grow up.
>>
>> Ian.
>>
>> --
>> Ian Clarke
>> Founder, The Freenet Project
>> Email: i...@freenet.org 
>>
>

Ongoing harassment

[Ian Clarke]

I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended to
some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the
project.

To the person or persons doing this:

   - ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your anonymity

   - If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your
   behavior

   - I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you

Grow up.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:44 PM Marek Küthe  wrote:

> I have assumed that Freenet acts according to these principles and that
> there are not just a few (or even one) people who make decisions about
> Freenet.
>

If you assumed that Freenet had a terrible decision-making process that
would lead to certain failure then you assumed incorrectly.


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:22 PM Marek Küthe  wrote:

> Well, I think here one should decide between a company / organization
> with profit intentions and a community / FLOSS project and an
> non-profit association.
>

I disagree. The same principle applies to any common endeavor by a group of
people. Organizations that make every decision to try to keep the most
people happy always stagnate and die, as night follows day.

You're proposing that a group of people with absolutely no competence in
brand marketing make a complicated brand marketing decision. There is no
universe in which that's a good idea.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Organizations that put every decision to a vote stagnate and die, which is
why no successful organization of any kind works that way.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:06 PM Marek Küthe  wrote:

> Nice to see that the email arrived at the Mailling list :-)
>
> I personally have never run a business. However, I know this procedure
> from the community network dn42, for example. To get larger resources
> there, you have to ask the Mailling list for permission, for example.
>
> Codeberg.org for example offers the possibility of a paid membership.
> In this membership you can vote on decisions. (Codeberg has implemented
> a great token system for this).
>
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:01:56 -0600
> Ian Clarke  wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Only if the majority of the community agrees, this change should be
> > > implemented
> >
> >
> > Have you ever actually run a company, organization, or significant
> project?
> > It really doesn't sound like it.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 1:59 PM Marek Küthe  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am a Freenet user and also wanted to speak up.
> > >
> > > Since I have no position within Freenet, you can simply ignore
> > > the email..
> > >
> > > Everything I say here is my personal opinion. I do not want to
> > > personally insult, abuse or otherwise verbally hurt anyone. If anyone
> > > feels personally attacked, I am sorry. I will use the first names of
> > > the persons in the following, because I consider this as usual in the
> > > internet. I do not mean to imply that I disrespect anyone.
> > >
> > > 1) Major changes in a concept or in a program (I count the name change
> > > to it) should be discussed in the Commuity. There should be factual
> > > arguments exchanged. Only if the majority of the community agrees, this
> > > change should be implemented. This is something that makes community
> > > projects. Even if you don't count Freenet as a community project, the
> > > current developers should agree. As far as I have noticed, this is
> > > currently not Ian, but rather Arne.
> > >
> > > 2) Transparency is part of a good FLOSS project. Not giving information
> > > about donations or decision making process is wrong.
> > >
> > > The process like the decision has not been presented transparently. It
> > > was only said that privately over a longer period of time, with Arne
> > > was spoken, but without his consent to achieve.
> > >
> > > Of course, it always depends on the project, but I know it so that
> > > always first the opinions of several people are obtained before a
> > > decision is discussed. As far as I have noticed, only Ian and Arne were
> > > involved, which have referred to mutual points of view. In my opinion
> > > it would have made sense (and still does) to get the opinions of more
> > > people and make a decision based on that. If you don't want to ask any
> > > person from the community, you can take for example every person who
> > > has committed to the project in the last years.
> > >
> > > 3) I think the real identity of people does not count. Even a
> > > pseudonymous person can be a member of a community. Their votes should
> > > be counted the same as those of non-anonymous members.
> > >
> > > 4)
> > >
> > > a) I don't know if it's just my subjective perception: I think Ian
> > > contradicts himself in parts of his statements. On the one hand he
> > > says that he likes to answer questions, but he doesn't always
> > > answer factually.
> > >
> > > b) Here's my feeling: Ian announced it on the Mailling list. There
> > > was strong resistance to it. First there was factual discussion,
> > > but when the arguments ran out, there were personal attacks. This
> > > to me is a sign of desperation.
> > >
> > > 5) I think a name change will greatly confuse future users:
> > >
> > > a) There are many documentations (some of them very old) which are
> > > not updated. If someone finds a documentation for Freenet and it is
> > > about Fred and not about Locutus, this can lead to confusion.
> > >
> > > b) If no one from the community or the developers agrees, how
> > > should something be implemented? As far as I can see, this would
> > > rather mean that there will be a fork of the Freenet project.
> > >
> > > 6) Is Freenet a mission or

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

>
> Only if the majority of the community agrees, this change should be
> implemented


Have you ever actually run a company, organization, or significant project?
It really doesn't sound like it.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 1:59 PM Marek Küthe  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am a Freenet user and also wanted to speak up.
>
> Since I have no position within Freenet, you can simply ignore
> the email..
>
> Everything I say here is my personal opinion. I do not want to
> personally insult, abuse or otherwise verbally hurt anyone. If anyone
> feels personally attacked, I am sorry. I will use the first names of
> the persons in the following, because I consider this as usual in the
> internet. I do not mean to imply that I disrespect anyone.
>
> 1) Major changes in a concept or in a program (I count the name change
> to it) should be discussed in the Commuity. There should be factual
> arguments exchanged. Only if the majority of the community agrees, this
> change should be implemented. This is something that makes community
> projects. Even if you don't count Freenet as a community project, the
> current developers should agree. As far as I have noticed, this is
> currently not Ian, but rather Arne.
>
> 2) Transparency is part of a good FLOSS project. Not giving information
> about donations or decision making process is wrong.
>
> The process like the decision has not been presented transparently. It
> was only said that privately over a longer period of time, with Arne
> was spoken, but without his consent to achieve.
>
> Of course, it always depends on the project, but I know it so that
> always first the opinions of several people are obtained before a
> decision is discussed. As far as I have noticed, only Ian and Arne were
> involved, which have referred to mutual points of view. In my opinion
> it would have made sense (and still does) to get the opinions of more
> people and make a decision based on that. If you don't want to ask any
> person from the community, you can take for example every person who
> has committed to the project in the last years.
>
> 3) I think the real identity of people does not count. Even a
> pseudonymous person can be a member of a community. Their votes should
> be counted the same as those of non-anonymous members.
>
> 4)
>
> a) I don't know if it's just my subjective perception: I think Ian
> contradicts himself in parts of his statements. On the one hand he
> says that he likes to answer questions, but he doesn't always
> answer factually.
>
> b) Here's my feeling: Ian announced it on the Mailling list. There
> was strong resistance to it. First there was factual discussion,
> but when the arguments ran out, there were personal attacks. This
> to me is a sign of desperation.
>
> 5) I think a name change will greatly confuse future users:
>
> a) There are many documentations (some of them very old) which are
> not updated. If someone finds a documentation for Freenet and it is
> about Fred and not about Locutus, this can lead to confusion.
>
> b) If no one from the community or the developers agrees, how
> should something be implemented? As far as I can see, this would
> rather mean that there will be a fork of the Freenet project.
>
> 6) Is Freenet a mission or a software? Personally, I think it is
> software - as most people probably do. For example, Freenet is also
> described as software on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet and
> https://geti2p.net/en/comparison/freenet and not as a mission. If it is
> a mission, it would have made sense to clarify this early on and not
> wait until it is crucial. Even the website https://freenetproject.org/
> talks about a platform, therefore a kind of software, and not about a
> mission.
>
> Personally, I have always seen the mission as the background to why
> Freenet was developed.
>
> 7) I personally find the name Locutus very nice and would also be very
> confused if it was suddenly called Freenet. Experience has shown that a
> project is not evaluated by name, but by content.
>
> 8) One way to get clarity about the discussion now would be for example
> to talk to the users one in IRC or alternatively to write to the
> committers and ask what they think. I think based on their opinion a
> judgement should be made and not based on the opinion of a few people
> (or even one). Ian has mentioned many times that users do not speak on
> behalf of the community. While it is difficult to determine something
> like that, there are definitely some possibilities: One could contact
> the users of Freenet via Sone or IRC and get their opinion.
>
> Furthermore, I think that such a decision and thus the change wil

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 12:40 PM  wrote:

> I think I have the right to know how the money is being used, especially
> since some of it was my donation.


I have no idea who you are or what you've donated, but nothing gives you
the right to ineptly try to bully me or anyone else with
impertinent demands for information or insinuating financial improprieties
in things you know absolutely nothing about.

I'm not your butler or your babysitter, and I don't respond well to
tantrums. I don't often block email addresses, but you're coming very
close. You've been warned.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Who are you, and what on earth makes you think you have the right to demand
any information from me?

I really can't believe you people, the narcissism is off-the-charts. Are
you all children? Seriously.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 12:02 PM  wrote:

> Ian,
>
> I have read over the last responses and there seems to be some items
> that I would like clarification on, as well as some comments I would
> like to add as a community member, node volunteer, and supporter of the
> Freenet "fred" project.
>
> DuckDuckGo donated $25,000 several years ago, that money has still not
> been allocated or spent, will it be spend along with the $100,000 grant
> given to Loculus? Where will that money go?
>
> While the charity called The Freenet Project is your baby and passion,
> it seems a bit unorthodox to do the following:
>
> Have an 18 month private discussion with one dev, claim you disagree
> with his objections and overrule them.
> Go to the board, and claim this is happening, in secret, with no public
> proof of any opposing views being debated or suggested (names can be
> redacted and transcripts posted as Speaker #1) or at least minute notes
> of these meetings.
> Announce over a mailing list you have not posted to in months, let alone
> to FMS or Sone, that this change is happening and it's happening now.
> Limiting any other devs or community members to engage in discussion or
> presenting valid alternatives. (like you state Arne doesn't speak for
> everyone)
> Demand code to be changed to update these changes, (I don't see a pull
> request from you) and magically hope that all documentation including
> unmaintained one will follow? (how do you expect abandoned freesites to
> update their language?)
>
> Please place yourself into the shoes of the community you were expected
> to represent and lead, and realize maybe there was some mistakes made
> here and more discussion should be done.
>
> While the core of this issue is just a naming decision, and not your
> leadership style or actions. There seems to be a 20 plus year common
> understanding that Freenet is Fred, and Freenet Classic is Fred 0.5 when
> the network forked.
>
> Locutus is a new software project that meets very similar goals as your
> charity organization. Maybe it would be best to create a new
> organization to support the management and funding of Locutus, instead
> of doing what feels to many as a "rugpull" from Freenet's community and
> support.
>
> I fear that even with your declaration, many users and devs will not
> comply, and as Freenet is uncensorable, and development can continue
> over itself. I wonder how you will deal with a rogue project (in your
> eyes) stealing the name as it continues to operate against your wishes.
>
> Respectfully,
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Russell,

I'm not going to subject the other board members to the kind of infantile
harassment I've been experiencing over the past two days, including
anonymous cowards spamming the Locutus Matrix channel and then spamming
individual members of the channel. Was that you?

The non-profit will disclose such information in accordance with the law,
and not at the demand of children throwing a tantrum.

The decision was mine, the board concurred. There is nothing kind about the
rest of your silly email. Grow up.

Ian.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 9:55 AM Russell Glenn  wrote:

> Dear Ian Clarke,
>
> I would kindly ask you for some clarifications here.
>
> (1) Florent Daigniere, a long standing contributor, said:
>
> > Bringing in "the board" in an argument of authority is an asshat
> > move: As you know, none of its members have had any active
> > involvement with the project nor its community for decades. In
> > fact, looking at the list of subscribers to @devl, I highly doubt
> > that any of them aside from you are on it; Prove me wrong, let
> > them manifest themselves and defend what, so far, can only be
> > seen as an unilateral move from you.
>
> To which your only reply was:
>
> > That's how non-profits work, their boards vote on important
> > decisions.
>
> And the hypothetical board members did in fact not manifest
> themselves.
>
> This seems like an admission that you unilaterally made this
> decision.
> And an additional proof is provided by the fact that the
> board members did indeed not manifest themselves.
>
> Can you thus please:
>
> A) Tell us whether it is true that you were the only board member
> involved in the decision.
>
> B) Tell us the names of the other board members and their mail
> addresses.
>
>
> (2) Your central argument in this thread seems to be that the
> change is for the next generation of people.
>
> Someone said you are born 1977.
>
> By your own logic in this thread, where you copiously informed
> the others that you think they should not speak for people whom
> they do not represent, you would not be entitled to represent
> the next generation:
> You are not a member of it, in fact you are multiple generations
> behind if you are born 1977.
>
> Thus, can you please tell us if it is true that you are born 1977?
>
> I send my kind regards,
>
> Russell Glenn
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 9:17 AM Juiceman  wrote:

> Speaking of steal:
>>>
>> https://trademarks.justia.com/874/39/freenet-87439977.html
>>>
>>
>> Given that our use of the name predates their trademark by 18 years and
>> has been in active use that entire time, I don't think this trademark is a
>> concern.
>>
>
> My only concern was someone was trading on Freenet's name with a similar
> area of technology.
>

Ah, understood. My instinct is that it wouldn't be worth our time to do
anything about it - but I'll give it some thought. Thanks for mentioning it.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 5:57 PM David Dernoncourt 
wrote:

> >> Maybe that's how you intended it originally, but with the possible
> exceptions of the devs who work on the depot named "fred" and maybe some
> users who are really experts and die-hard on wording accuracy, what most
> users call "Freenet" is that piece of software that you download from on
> this page https://freenetproject.org/pages/download.html that begins with
> "Download and install Freenet:"
> >
> > Firstly, you have no idea how most users of Fred feel about this
> > change, so I hope you're not implying that they all agree with you.
> > There is a lot of "argumentum ad populum" going on in this thread.
> > People should speak for themselves.
>
> Where did I mention agreement to the change in what you quote? All I'm
> saying is that the name "Freenet" is currently attached, in most people's
> minds, to the particular software and not to "the mission".
>

There you go again, speaking on behalf of people you don't speak for.


> I don't see how the naming in itself will be a game changer "for the next
> generation". "The next generation" will adopt any product it deems as
> "cool", even if it has a stupid name such as "TikTok" or "FTX". So as far
> as they're concerned, the name doesn't even matter. So yeah, you could
> rename as you say. You could also rename Locutus as Dicky-Doo-Dah. That's
> not really where the problem lies. Just like Freenet (current) didn't fail
> because of its name, Freenet (new) won't succeed thanks to of its name.
>

I'm not sure of your expertise, but I doubt it's in brand marketing.


> However, what about the current generation?


All 7.888 billion of them? You don't speak for them either.


> Is it gently (or not so gently) being told to sod off? I'd like to know,
> cause stopping a few servers here and there would mean fewer bills to pay.
>

If you think you can get your way by threatening to stop contributing then
you don't know who you're talking to.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenet.org 

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

[resending, last one was sent from an old email address accidentally - I
need to leave and rejoin this ML].

Firstly, you have no idea how most users of Fred feel about this change, so
I hope you're not implying that they all agree with you. There is a lot of
"argumentum ad populum" going on in this thread. People should speak for
themselves.

But more importantly, let's pretend that every single Fred user disagreed
with changing "Freenet" to "Freenet Classic". As I've already stated - the
constituency I'm concerned with is the next generation.

So if you've got a compelling factual argument for why you think not doing
this will be better for the next generation, then I'm all ears.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 4:47 PM David Dernoncourt 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, at 19:32, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM David Dernoncourt
> >  wrote:
> >> As "just a regular user" and node runner who just poked around a few
> PRs, the main issues I have with this are 1) "what the Hell is Locutus" and
> 2) wow that's confusing.
> >>
> >> Sure, 1) is just (mostly) a rhetorical question. But it seems quite an
> unusual thing to "steal" the name of a software (even more so when said
> software is still actively maintained) to stamp it on another software that
> doesn't have any relationship with the other one beside being supported by
> the same foundation and sharing the same (or a similar enough) mission
> statement.
> >
> > That's not what's happening. The name always belonged to the *mission*,
> > not to any particular piece of software. This is why we were careful
> > not to tie it to any particular codebase when we wrote it:
> >
>
> Maybe that's how you intended it originally, but with the possible
> exceptions of the devs who work on the depot named "fred" and maybe some
> users who are really experts and die-hard on wording accuracy, what most
> users call "Freenet" is that piece of software that you download from on
> this page https://freenetproject.org/pages/download.html that begins with
> "Download and install Freenet:"
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, 4:47 PM David Dernoncourt 
wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, at 19:32, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > That's not what's happening. The name always belonged to the *mission*,
> > not to any particular piece of software. This is why we were careful
> > not to tie it to any particular codebase when we wrote it:
>
> Maybe that's how you intended it originally, but with the possible
> exceptions of the devs who work on the depot named "fred" and maybe some
> users who are really experts and die-hard on wording accuracy, what most
> users call "Freenet" is that piece of software that you download from on
> this page https://freenetproject.org/pages/download.html that begins with
> "Download and install Freenet:"
>

Firstly, you have no idea how most users of Fred feel about this change, so
I hope you're not implying that they all agree with you. There is a lot of
"argumentum ad populum" going on in this thread. People should speak for
themselves.

But more importantly, let's pretend that every single Fred user disagreed
with changing "Freenet" to "Freenet Classic". As I've already stated - the
constituency I'm concerned with is the next generation.

So if you've got a compelling factual argument for why you think not doing
this will be better for the next generation, then I'm all ears.

Ian.

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 2:12 PM Freenet304987 
wrote:

> Ian Clarke  wrote:
> > The name - which I came up with - never belonged to one codebase, it
> > belonged to the mission. This was the case from the beginning, which
> > is precisely why our mission statement didn't mention any specific
> > implementation.
>
> You are stuck in the past.
>
> Things you did 24 years ago do not grant you free reign forever.
> You've been absent for over a decade, Freenet has moved on.
>

Thank you, anonymous person I have no idea who you are, for telling me all
about the project I started.

Michael is right, this now seems to be more about you venting and having an
overinflated ego than advancing the interests of the project.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:11 AM Juiceman  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, 12:08 PM David Dernoncourt 
> wrote:
>
>> As "just a regular user" and node runner who just poked around a few PRs,
>> the main issues I have with this are 1) "what the Hell is Locutus" and 2)
>> wow that's confusing.
>>
>> Sure, 1) is just (mostly) a rhetorical question. But it seems quite an
>> unusual thing to "steal" the name of a software (even more so when said
>> software is still actively maintained) to stamp it on another software that
>> doesn't have any relationship with the other one beside being supported by
>> the same foundation and sharing the same (or a similar enough) mission
>> statement.
>>
>
> Speaking of steal:
>
https://trademarks.justia.com/874/39/freenet-87439977.html
>

Given that our use of the name predates their trademark by 18 years and has
been in active use that entire time, I don't think this trademark is a
concern.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM David Dernoncourt 
wrote:

> As "just a regular user" and node runner who just poked around a few PRs,
> the main issues I have with this are 1) "what the Hell is Locutus" and 2)
> wow that's confusing.
>
> Sure, 1) is just (mostly) a rhetorical question. But it seems quite an
> unusual thing to "steal" the name of a software (even more so when said
> software is still actively maintained) to stamp it on another software that
> doesn't have any relationship with the other one beside being supported by
> the same foundation and sharing the same (or a similar enough) mission
> statement.
>

That's not what's happening. The name always belonged to the *mission*, not
to any particular piece of software. This is why we were careful not to tie
it to any particular codebase when we wrote it:

*The specific purpose of this corporation is to assist in developing and
disseminating technological solutions to further the open and democratic
distribution of information over the Internet or its successor electronic
communication networks or organizations. It is also the purpose of this
organization to guarantee consenting individuals the free, unmediated, and
unimpeded reception and impartation of all intellectual, scientific,
literary, social, artistic, creative, human rights, and cultural
expressions, opinions and ideas without interference or limitation by or
service to state, private, or special interests. It is also the purpose of
this organization to educate the world community and be an advocate of
these purposes.*


> As far as suggestions go, even though (if it's not obvious) I don't
> support this change either (I would rather prefer, for instance, "Freenet
> Locutus" vs "Freenet Classic", dropping "Freenet [period]" instead of
> hijacking it), my suggestion would be to find a way to make it crystal
> clear that names were swapped and to point out clearly and concisely the
> key differences between the "old" Freenet and the "new" one.
>

My intention is that the websites will make this *very* clear, people
looking for Fred will find Fred, people looking for Locutus will find
Locutus. There is risk, as I said, but there is risk in every non-trivial
decision.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

More information on Locutus

[Ian Clarke]

A number of people have said that they haven't heard much about Locutus, so
here are some pointers:

   - A video <https://youtu.be/x9g018OYwb4> introduction to Locutus from
   July 2022
   - A video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9g018OYwb4> interview I did
   with Louis Rossmann (a popular YouTuber) in September 2022
   - A Matrix <https://matrix.to/#/%23freenet-locutus:matrix.org> chat room
   where interested people and developers discuss Locutus
   - A detailed roadmap <https://www.pivotaltracker.com/n/projects/2477110>
   for the next few months of development
   - The Locutus code <https://github.com/freenet/locutus>

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:40 AM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

>
> Ian Clarke  writes:
> > What "room"? I've already said, the constituency I care about is the
> next generation. You don't speak for them.
>
> You do not care about the currently existing, vibrant Freenet Community?
>

I care about the maintainers and users of Fred, and I've said I do - this
is why I've been discussing this with you for the last 18 months to ensure
that I gave your perspective a fair hearing, even if I ultimately didn't
agree with it.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:05 AM Freenet304987 
wrote:

> Ian Clarke  wrote:
> > You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree.
>
> That's another grave misunderstanding:
> This is not "my" opinion.
>

Yes it is.


> The core of it is the opinion of **EVERYONE** in this room,
> Nobody wants your forced theft of the project's name,
> not even a minority!
>

What "room"? I've already said, the constituency I care about is the next
generation. You don't speak for them.


> You're acting like King Joffrey in GoT where he is completely
> isolated and proceeds to scream "I AM THE KING!!!"
>

Don't be silly.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:55 AM Freenet304987 
wrote:

> Ian Clarke  wrote:
> That's fine.
> But you absolutely do **not** have to steal the name of an existing
> software for that.
>

The name - which I came up with - never belonged to one codebase, it
belonged to the mission. This was the case from the beginning, which is
precisely why our mission statement didn't mention any specific
implementation.


> Millions of software projects were able to come up with a unique
> and good name, so can you.
>

I did, 24 years ago.


> You say you're against technology being a force of oppression.
> And you do that in the same thread where you're trying to oppress
> the people who have been running your software project for
> decades, for free.
>

Don't be silly, me not doing what you think I should do isn't "oppression".


> This is beyond ungrateful.
> It is utterly vile and you should be ashamed.
>

I'm happy to hear different perspectives, but this melodramatic language
helps nobody.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 9:40 AM Florent Daigniere <
florent-free...@daigniere.com> wrote:

> I'll help answer that one: He is a long-standing volunteer who is one of
> the current Release Managers; He has also been helping me with system
> administration for the project and still has access to most systems to
> this day.
>
> The fact that you are not aware of it just goes to show how disconnected
> you are from the community.
>

I know exactly who he is, I was asking who he was speaking on behalf of
since he was claiming to speak on behalf of the "Freenet community", quite
a bold claim.


> Bringing in "the board" in an argument of authority is an asshat move:
>

That's how non-profits work, their boards vote on important decisions.

Regardless of the outcome I can't help but think that this should have
> been handled better.
>

Perhaps, but pleasing everyone isn't and was never my job. The constituency
I'm concerned with are the children growing up today facing a world where
technology is a force of oppression and control, not a force for good.
Business as usual hasn't addressed this and won't address it, that's why
I'm doing something about it.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree.

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 9:33 AM Freenet304987 
wrote:

> Ian,
>
> for over 10 years, I have been a member of the Freenet community, too.
>
> You have some grave misunderstandings which I would like to clear up.
>
> They concern:
> - what you think you're entitled to do vs. what you actually are.
> - what you think your personal qualities are vs. the actual ones.
> - *especially* what you think the consequences of forcing this
> through will be vs. what they actually will be.
> - what Freenet needs.
>
> You seem to believe that by inventing Freenet, you own it and can do
> whatever you want with it forever.
>
> You discovered its math, which is great, but that does not make
> you the owner of the math, math has no owner.
>
> Instead, Freenet, like any other open source software, is a meritocracy.
>
> You have not contributed **any** useful merit for well over 10 years.
> You do not write code.
> You do not regularly communicate with the team.
> You do not even talk to the users on Freenet itself.
> And I am fairly confident you haven't even used Freenet in ages.
> Typically, you are only one thing: absent for years.
> Then all you do is burst into the "room" every once in a while, tell
> everyone that what they're doing is garbage, and boss them around.
>
> Hence you're **not** entitled to use the name Freenet like you want to.
> The people who have been writing the code for the past decades are.
>
>
> Which brings us to your qualities:
>
> Yes, by having a dominant, pushy character, you are good at acquiring
> funding.
> But unfortunately, this is also what is called narcissism.
> You are the absolutely stereotypical manager which annoys everyone
> who does the **actual** work.
> You are not just bad at helping a team of developers, but you're
> actually **so bad** that the only thing you do is interrupt them.
>
> Let's talk about the elephant in the room:
> Nobody on the core team likes you.
> None.
> They only don't say this because they're afraid of your outbursts.
> You're an obstacle to them, and have been for a long time.
>
> The only reason you haven't been banned yet is that migrating
> the infrastructure would have been detrimental to Freenet's users and
> a waste of time.
> But this only applies up to a certain level of misbehavior.
>
>
> So while you think you can just force the developers to do what you
> want, what will actually happen is this:
> They'll treat you as a malicious actor, an attacker, like any other
> open source project would do, and fork the project - under the
> **original** name.
> Because Freenet aims to prevent censorship.
> That includes censorship of Freenet itself.
>
> They will publicly discredit you, and you'll be known **not** as the
> great leader you think you are, but just another person who turned
> evil.
> Look at how everyone hates Elon Musk, that's you, just with less money.
>
>
> Finally, let's talk about what Freenet needs:
> Freenet needs not your vision, but to be left alone by you.
> While you have been rambling here, Arne has merged dozens and dozens
> of pull requests, some of which are the 70th (!) part of continous work.
> Yes, it is a 20 years old codebase.
> But it has people who understand it, and who work to resolve its issues.
> People who have been working on it for **decades**.
> You sully their great efforts with your belief that you'd somehow still
> "own" Freenet.
>
> The patience to merge the 70th part of a branch, **as a volunteer**
> is ridiculously valuable and **not** something you can provide.
> **Especially** not something you should tamper with and mess up.
>
> Once your fancy new project is at the point where Freenet is now, it
> will be in the same situation:
> Rust won't be the cool toy of the day anymore, and someone will urge
> to rewrite it. Yet another 20 years wasted.
> The rewrite-treadmill is futile and must be avoided.
>
>
> Please do everyone a favor and step down as leader and transfer
> leadership to Arne who does the actual work.
>
> Stick to acquiring money for Locutus.
> Have fun with Locutus, nobody asks you to stop.
> But do **NOT** abuse the merit and name of the Freenet community to
> advertise Locutus.
> You did not add to Freenet's merit in a long time, so it is not your
> property.
>
> Locutus must have its own name and its own infrastructure.
> Move it to its own domain and GitHub with a different name than
> "Freenet".
> You do not deserve to use the name Freenet.
>
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 4:53 AM Marco A. Calamari 
wrote:

Hi Marco, I hope you are well.

But in fact, I too do not understand the total silence on this subject on
> all Freenet lists, including announce, before you mail.
>

As I said, I have been discussing this with Arne for 18 months to ensure I
understood the perspective of those likely to oppose it. Making this a
public debate would have created far more heat than light because branding
is an inherently subjective issue. If it were an architectural question a
different approach would be appropriate.


> IMHO it will be useful, and more polite too, to send some post here with
> link to your video and public Locutus documents.
>

All relevant information on Locutus is available at https://freenet.org/ -
I'm surprised that this hasn't been more widely discussed among Fred users,
none of it has been a secret. I've done interviews about it on popular
YouTube channels.


> P.S. any trip to Italy in the near future?
>

None planned but I'd love to get back there someday, nice to hear from you
Marco.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:49 PM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

>
> Ian Clarke  writes:
> > Apologies to mutt users, but Freenet's mainstream brand recognition has
> been on an uninterrupted
> > downward trajectory since 2004:
> >
> > freenet-trend.png
>
> You are showing the US-trend. Let’s look at the trend in a country where
> there was PR done:
>

I'm glad to see it, people searching for Freenet will arrive at either
freenetproject.org or freenet.org - which will direct them to
freenetproject.org if they are looking for Fred.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:24 PM  wrote:

Thank you for your mostly reasonable response :)

On January 17, 2023 11:01:39 PM UTC, Ian Clarke 
> wrote:
> >I greatly appreciate the work you and the other maintainers have put into
> >Fred, which is why I took the time to listen to your concerns over the
> past
> >18 months.
>
> Is the a public place to review these, or FMS posts I have missed?
>

They were one-on-one emails between Arne and myself, although I had assumed
he would keep interested parties abreast of our conversation, at least at a
high level. I didn't ask him to keep anything a secret.


> >In my view and that of the board, Locutus is the best hope to achieve
> >Freenet's mission, given everything I know in 2023. That's not to say that
> >Locutus will replace Fred, it will not - because they serve different
> >needs. But Fred is a 23-year-old codebase, and the world is very different
> >from the world I saw when I started it, as is technology.
> >
> >I don't want conflict with you or the core maintainers, but the decision
> >has been made.
>
> Being authoritarian, especially in secret tends to cause conflict.
>

There was no secrecy, Arne was the person I thought most likely to disagree
and I sought his feedback starting 18 months ago.

In the end, I was unpersuaded by his argument, but that doesn't make me an
authoritarian. My job is to achieve the project's mission, I can't do that
if everyone gets a veto, that would be an abdication of my responsibility.
What I can do is hear people out, which is what I did with Arne.

Perhaps it was an incorrect assumption that Arne would relay our
discussions to other interested parties, in which case I apologize.

>Fighting it is only going to consume time, resources, emotion, and
> >attention that distracts from the goals that I know drive all of us.
>
> This is where I don't understand, and thus disagree.
> Renaming Fred to Freenet Classic will take time and resources, as will
> renaming Locutus to Freenet.


It seems like a way to gather all the positive branding and support the
> existing Freenet community has generated and built.


Apologies to mutt users, but Freenet's mainstream brand recognition has
been on an uninterrupted downward trajectory since 2004:

[image: freenet-trend.png]

I don't say this to disrespect Fred, but the value of "Freenet" as a brand
is in the fact that it literally describes our mission better than any
other name I've been able to come up with, the value is not in its current
mainstream brand recognition - which is zero.


> Would it not be better to also not confuse future users, they will
> probably stumble on outdated references for years to come? This change
> seems counterproductive with very limited benefit. I fail to see how
> keeping Locutus as Locutus is more risky and less rewarding?
>

I don't think people are confused by the concept of a sequel, just look at
Terminator 2 or Aliens. This is the same thing, just software not movies.
The websites will mutually link to each other, so any confusion will be
resolved rapidly upon visiting either website.

Like I said, there is risk - but in my view, the risk of inaction is
greater, and we may not have much more time in which to try. I need to give
it my best shot.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Arne,

I greatly appreciate the work you and the other maintainers have put into
Fred, which is why I took the time to listen to your concerns over the past
18 months.

The bottom line is that after hearing you out, I simply don't agree with
you.

In particular, I do not believe that the proposed changes will harm Fred,
but rather, Fred should get a significant boost from the attention Locutus
will receive if we are successful. There is no question that there is risk,
but there is risk in every decision.

My primary concern is for the next generation, who may ask me in 30 years
if I did everything in my power to keep the Internet a force for freedom
rather than oppression. This has always been the core mission of Freenet,
not any specific codebase or feature set. *We are losing this battle, and
we need to take action before it is lost*. Nobody gets a veto over this,
not even Fred's maintainers or members of the current user base, value them
as I do.

In my view and that of the board, Locutus is the best hope to achieve
Freenet's mission, given everything I know in 2023. That's not to say that
Locutus will replace Fred, it will not - because they serve different
needs. But Fred is a 23-year-old codebase, and the world is very different
from the world I saw when I started it, as is technology.

I don't want conflict with you or the core maintainers, but the decision
has been made.

Fighting it is only going to consume time, resources, emotion, and
attention that distracts from the goals that I know drive all of us.

Ian.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:15 PM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

>
> Ian Clarke  writes:
> > You're speaking as if you speak on behalf of the Freenet community. Who
> specifically are you speaking for and what gives you the ability to speak
> for
> > them?
>
> I share the sentiment. Steve spoke to me before sending this message,
> and he also speaks for me, the release manager of Freenet. Also David,
> Florent, and xor disagree strongly with the renaming plan. These are
> most of the non-anonymous core developers of Freenet.
>
> And the actual Freenet community that communicates on Freenet via FMS
> and Sone is absolutely enraged over this.
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
>
> > On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 2:46 PM Steve Dougherty 
> wrote:
> >  I'm surprised. I'm not sure what to say, or what reaction you and the
> >  rest of the board expected.
> >
> >  This is another demonstration of a complete disconnect between the board
> >  of FPI, and the community around Freenet. After giving up initial plans
> >  to name Locutus "Freenet 2" in the face of backlash, you and the rest of
> >  the board appear to now want still more of Freenet's brand recognition.
> >  The hope seems to be that the Freenet community, having not been
> >  consulted, and reasonably assumed to disagree, will undertake the effort
> >  to rename themselves the Freenet Classic community.
> >
> >  I don't think this will happen. It would require buy-in, and it has
> >  none.
> >
> >  - Steve
>
>
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein,
> ohne es zu merken.
> draketo.de
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Board discussions are confidential, this is common practice for non-profits
so that board members can speak freely. I'm happy to answer any questions
you have about this decision.

The grant from FUTO last year was hardly
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoV9amsnaQg> a secret, the video about it
had over 21,000 views.



On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:35 PM  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As a non-contributor of code, but running nodes, and donating
> occasionally. How can I view the discussion that the board had? All I can
> find public tax documents that they received over $100,000 this year in
> donations. There is no board meeting minutes or mailing list (or paper
> trail)
>
> An anti-censorship project should be more transparent.
>
> Thanks,
>
> On January 17, 2023 10:06:51 PM UTC, "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <
> arne_...@web.de> wrote:
> >
> >Ian Clarke  writes:
> >> You're speaking as if you speak on behalf of the Freenet community. Who
> specifically are you speaking for and what gives you the ability to speak
> for
> >> them?
> >
> >I share the sentiment. Steve spoke to me before sending this message,
> >and he also speaks for me, the release manager of Freenet. Also David,
> >Florent, and xor disagree strongly with the renaming plan. These are
> >most of the non-anonymous core developers of Freenet.
> >
> >And the actual Freenet community that communicates on Freenet via FMS
> >and Sone is absolutely enraged over this.
> >
> >Best wishes,
> >Arne
> >
> >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 2:46 PM Steve Dougherty 
> wrote:
> >>  I'm surprised. I'm not sure what to say, or what reaction you and the
> >>  rest of the board expected.
> >>
> >>  This is another demonstration of a complete disconnect between the
> board
> >>  of FPI, and the community around Freenet. After giving up initial plans
> >>  to name Locutus "Freenet 2" in the face of backlash, you and the rest
> of
> >>  the board appear to now want still more of Freenet's brand recognition.
> >>  The hope seems to be that the Freenet community, having not been
> >>  consulted, and reasonably assumed to disagree, will undertake the
> effort
> >>  to rename themselves the Freenet Classic community.
> >>
> >>  I don't think this will happen. It would require buy-in, and it has
> >>  none.
> >>
> >>  - Steve
> >
> >
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Steve,

You're speaking as if you speak on behalf of the Freenet community. Who
specifically are you speaking for and what gives you the ability to speak
for them?

Ian.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 2:46 PM Steve Dougherty  wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> I'm surprised. I'm not sure what to say, or what reaction you and the
> rest of the board expected.
>
> This is another demonstration of a complete disconnect between the board
> of FPI, and the community around Freenet. After giving up initial plans
> to name Locutus "Freenet 2" in the face of backlash, you and the rest of
> the board appear to now want still more of Freenet's brand recognition.
> The hope seems to be that the Freenet community, having not been
> consulted, and reasonably assumed to disagree, will undertake the effort
> to rename themselves the Freenet Classic community.
>
> I don't think this will happen. It would require buy-in, and it has
> none.
>
> - Steve
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Important Announcement: Freenet naming change

[Ian Clarke]

Dear Freenet users and developers,

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to inform you of an
important change that the Freenet Project board voted on unanimously
on Friday. After much discussion over the past 18 months, we have decided
to rename the codebase and software known internally as "Fred," to "Freenet
Classic."

In addition, we are announcing that the new codebase, known internally as
"Locutus," will be renamed to "Freenet." We understand that this is a big
change and it carries risk, but the board believes that this risk is
necessary in order to further the project's mission.

It is important to note that this change does *not* mean that Locutus is
replacing Fred, which solves related but different problems. We will ensure
that where Fred is the appropriate tool for people they will be directed to
it.  Freenetproject.org will remain focused on Fred while linking to
Locutus - as it has been for over two decades - while freenet.org will
place more emphasis on Locutus, while still linking to Fred.

We will be implementing these changes over the coming days and weeks and
would be grateful for your ideas and suggestions on how best to do this.

Thank you,

Ian

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Google Summer of Code 2021?

[Ian Clarke]

Hey guys, sorry for the delay in replying.

I think we should do this, however I'm concerned I may have limited time to
handle administrative tasks related to it.  Could someone else (Arne?) have
primary responsibility for managing it - and I will assist where necessary?

Ian.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:56 AM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Registration for Google Summer of Code 2021 for Organizations is open.
> Will we take part?
>
> https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/
>
> We need an „official representative“ of the project to register, which
> would be Ian?
>
> I started a list of interesting tasks in the wiki and on a Freesite
> https://github.com/freenet/wiki/wiki/Google-Summer-of-Code-2021
> USK@1e
> ~oSIunnUl4nWEdyZBLjYMGt1IladVmY7GhXnfmHRw,hAhN74IAmm2Eo5Qkr6ZCEcG3MVBEexrbFXBp61W3jcI,AQACAAE/gsoc-2021/2/
>
> The ones that I see as most impactful on the short term now that we have
> a mobile app in FDroid (yay DC*!) are content filters for
> - ogg opus,
> - vp9, and
> - av1
>
> Those would make the upcoming in-browser streaming fast enough that
> freesites can provide video-on-demand in HD-quality.
>
> In addition anything that can add features from icicles to the mobile
> node: https://github.com/freenet-mobile/app
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Bouncy Castle crypto authentication bypass vulnerability revealed

[Ian Clarke]

I doubt we're affected, but:
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/bouncy-castle-crypto-authentication-bypass-vulnerability-revealed/

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: 1489-pre1 test release

[Ian Clarke]

Great work Arne!

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:07 AM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I created a test release for 1489:
> https://github.com/freenet/fred/releases/tag/testing-build-1489-pre1
> CHK@2vnn7QNa49lJUC44Wp65w9
> ~HVOj07Qiv72yz-SJDxUw,owMWSbHR-WcuznWkbcYmFu8lzR3tp9ZFlAeIKjgHaA0,AAMC--8/freenet.jar
>
>
> The main change compared too 1488 is that this release adds m3u filter
> support. This enables streaming audio (ogg/mp3) and video (theora).
>
>
> Since I did not announce the previous releases
> here: The changes in previous releases were:
>
> 1488 updated translations.
>
> https://freenetproject.org/freenet-build-1487-released.html
> https://freenetproject.org/freenet-build-1486-released.html
> https://freenetproject.org/freenet-build-1485-released.html
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Bitcoin donation housekeeping and change of donation address for security reasons (website needs redeploy)

[Ian Clarke]

Thanks Arne, looks like it's updated so we're good.

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 12:27 PM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> The tag suffices, yes. If you don’t see your changes yet, this could be
> due to caching. Just try it with a cache-busting parameter like:
> https://freenetproject.org/pages/donate.html?somethingrandom
>
> Thank you!
>
> And also thank you for doing the paperwork and funds management!
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
>
> Ian Clarke  writes:
>
> > Thanks Florent, I've created a new release
> > <
> https://github.com/freenet/website/releases/tag/new-btc-donation-address>,
> > should that be sufficient?
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:14 AM Florent Daignière <
> > nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Ian,
> >>
> >> We already have some CI setup... each time you push on that repository,
> >> it gets built/deployed by travis.
> >>
> >> Here's the job for your last commit:
> >> https://travis-ci.org/github/freenet/website/builds/719980195
> >>
> >> It goes live on
> >> https://staging.freenetproject.org
> >>
> >> If you would like it to be promoted to the main website, you need to
> >> push a tag (the tag's name doesn't matter).
> >>
> >> Florent
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 2020-08-21 at 11:02 -0500, Ian Clarke wrote:
> >> > We've been using Blockchain.info to manage our Bitcoin donations, but
> >> > we were using a legacy wallet which has limited backup and security
> >> > precautions (Blockchain.info has evolved a lot since we started using
> >> > it).
> >> >
> >> > So I've moved the funds to the primary Blockchain wallet to take full
> >> > advantage of the various security precautions, I'm also transferring 2
> >> > BTC to Freenet Project Inc's US dollar account to reduce our exposure
> >> > to the whims of Bitcoin fluctuations (but we still have plenty of BTC
> >> > to benefit if the current rally continues).
> >> >
> >> > The old donation address will continue to work fine, however I've
> >> > updated the donation address to:
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/12FNaL4XN1WRh4SHWXb8Gw2VvjkahqpJc7
> >> >
> >> > Note this address begins with the number twelve, and ends with the
> >> > number seven.  I've updated the website accordingly via Github, would
> >> > someone mind redeploying it?  I haven't modified the website in a few
> >> > years and am unfamiliar with the procedure (although we should
> >> > investigate whether we can automate it through Github Actions).
> >> >
> >> > As an additional precaution, I've attached a terrible photo of me with
> >> > the new BTC address.
> >> >
> >> > On a related note, I filed Freenet Project's taxes last week.  As a
> >> > nonprofit it doesn't need to pay tax, but unfortunately still needs to
> >> > file the paperwork every year to maintain that status.
> >> >
> >> > Ian.
> >> >
> >>
>
>
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>

Re: Bitcoin donation housekeeping and change of donation address for security reasons (website needs redeploy)

[Ian Clarke]

resend with correct From address:

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:37 AM Ian Clarke  wrote:

> Thanks Florent, I've created a new release
> <https://github.com/freenet/website/releases/tag/new-btc-donation-address>,
> should that be sufficient?
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:14 AM Florent Daignière <
> nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ian,
>>
>> We already have some CI setup... each time you push on that repository,
>> it gets built/deployed by travis.
>>
>> Here's the job for your last commit:
>> https://travis-ci.org/github/freenet/website/builds/719980195
>>
>> It goes live on
>> https://staging.freenetproject.org
>>
>> If you would like it to be promoted to the main website, you need to
>> push a tag (the tag's name doesn't matter).
>>
>> Florent
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2020-08-21 at 11:02 -0500, Ian Clarke wrote:
>> > We've been using Blockchain.info to manage our Bitcoin donations, but
>> > we were using a legacy wallet which has limited backup and security
>> > precautions (Blockchain.info has evolved a lot since we started using
>> > it).
>> >
>> > So I've moved the funds to the primary Blockchain wallet to take full
>> > advantage of the various security precautions, I'm also transferring 2
>> > BTC to Freenet Project Inc's US dollar account to reduce our exposure
>> > to the whims of Bitcoin fluctuations (but we still have plenty of BTC
>> > to benefit if the current rally continues).
>> >
>> > The old donation address will continue to work fine, however I've
>> > updated the donation address to:
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/12FNaL4XN1WRh4SHWXb8Gw2VvjkahqpJc7
>> >
>> > Note this address begins with the number twelve, and ends with the
>> > number seven.  I've updated the website accordingly via Github, would
>> > someone mind redeploying it?  I haven't modified the website in a few
>> > years and am unfamiliar with the procedure (although we should
>> > investigate whether we can automate it through Github Actions).
>> >
>> > As an additional precaution, I've attached a terrible photo of me with
>> > the new BTC address.
>> >
>> > On a related note, I filed Freenet Project's taxes last week.  As a
>> > nonprofit it doesn't need to pay tax, but unfortunately still needs to
>> > file the paperwork every year to maintain that status.
>> >
>> > Ian.
>> >
>>
>
>
> --
> Ian Clarke
> CEO, Uprizer Labs LLC
> Email: i...@uprizer.com
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Bitcoin donation housekeeping and change of donation address for security reasons (website needs redeploy)

[Ian Clarke]

Thanks Florent, I've created a new release
<https://github.com/freenet/website/releases/tag/new-btc-donation-address>,
should that be sufficient?

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:14 AM Florent Daignière <
nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote:

> Hi Ian,
>
> We already have some CI setup... each time you push on that repository,
> it gets built/deployed by travis.
>
> Here's the job for your last commit:
> https://travis-ci.org/github/freenet/website/builds/719980195
>
> It goes live on
> https://staging.freenetproject.org
>
> If you would like it to be promoted to the main website, you need to
> push a tag (the tag's name doesn't matter).
>
> Florent
>
>
> On Fri, 2020-08-21 at 11:02 -0500, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > We've been using Blockchain.info to manage our Bitcoin donations, but
> > we were using a legacy wallet which has limited backup and security
> > precautions (Blockchain.info has evolved a lot since we started using
> > it).
> >
> > So I've moved the funds to the primary Blockchain wallet to take full
> > advantage of the various security precautions, I'm also transferring 2
> > BTC to Freenet Project Inc's US dollar account to reduce our exposure
> > to the whims of Bitcoin fluctuations (but we still have plenty of BTC
> > to benefit if the current rally continues).
> >
> > The old donation address will continue to work fine, however I've
> > updated the donation address to:
> >
> >
> https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/12FNaL4XN1WRh4SHWXb8Gw2VvjkahqpJc7
> >
> > Note this address begins with the number twelve, and ends with the
> > number seven.  I've updated the website accordingly via Github, would
> > someone mind redeploying it?  I haven't modified the website in a few
> > years and am unfamiliar with the procedure (although we should
> > investigate whether we can automate it through Github Actions).
> >
> > As an additional precaution, I've attached a terrible photo of me with
> > the new BTC address.
> >
> > On a related note, I filed Freenet Project's taxes last week.  As a
> > nonprofit it doesn't need to pay tax, but unfortunately still needs to
> > file the paperwork every year to maintain that status.
> >
> > Ian.
> >
>


-- 
Ian Clarke
CEO, Uprizer Labs LLC
Email: i...@uprizer.com

Possibility for prioritization of funding allocation

[Ian Clarke]

I've been working on a prototype system for democratized resource
allocation, it's available at http://mediator.ai/.

It's still an early prototype but the important functionality is there.
Feedback appreciated.

-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: Freenet World Domination Plan

[Ian Clarke]

Some good suggestions.

On the UI, this would require a rewrite so may not be the direction we want
to go, but I've been thinking about how to build good web-based UIs for
apps for a long time now, in some regards Freenet was an early pioneer
here, but unfortunately there has never really been a great option that met
our needs.

I kept running into the same problems and so created something to try to
solve the problem, it's called http://kweb.io/.

The idea is that it makes it super-easy to create rich interactive web
interfaces, and yet you never need to get your fingers dirty with
javascript, it's all handled transparently.  Kweb is written in Kotlin
rather than Java, but Kotlin is fully interoperable and anyone familiar
with Java should be able to get comfortable with Kotlin very easily.  On
the negative side, Kweb is still at the working prototype stage, but I've
been tinkering with it for over 18 months at this point.

If we wanted to take a fresh stab at the web UI, it would be worth at least
considering Kweb.


On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is a high-level roadmap.
>
> We had several roadmaps in the past. They focussed on releases and on
> "when are we done". This one is different. It focusses on visions to
> find a stronger audience. It does not shun controversial topics and it
> is not a request for input.
>
>
> These are the powerful visions I see, ordered alphabetically:
>
>
> - Beautiful Freenet: Winterfacey by default, clean up UI warts
>   (i.e. first time wizard). Get rid of those UX hurdles which are likely
>   to cost us the most users.
>
> - Hosted Freenet: provide images (i.e. docker) to make it easy to run a
>   Freenet node for all the transparent freenet stuff which does not need
>   highest security but should be available to people who need highest
>   security.
>
> - Icicle Freenet: a crystal seed for darknet via mobile. Try the icicle
>   app. Improve it. Show it. It’s how we devs should be able to ping
>   other devs on their mobiles.
>
> - Mobile Freenet: transient nodes without storage which only connect
>   while on wifi and external power (~40% of the time) — and while the
>   user browses. Announcement is fast enough for that nowadays, and
>   median uptime of desktop nodes is lower (only two to four hours).
>
> - Multimedia Freenet: add more content filters and media tools. I want
>   to stream songs over Freenet with <2 minutes delay => m3u + opus +
>   tools to make that easy. Streaming video works well if
>   pre-recorded. Must avoid recently failed.
>
> - Stronger Freenet: Increase security against attackers, i.e. with
>   simple channels.
>
> - Transparent Freenet: backend to other apps, installed and started
>   on-demand. Makes Freenet available from any technology stack. Get
>   Freenet into all major distributions, so programs can use it there,
>   and provide a freenet-browser script and a run-with-freenet script
>   which does all the steps needed to start Freenet and connect the
>   browser or app securely (i.e. to Freenet with random IP and Port).
>
> - Unblocked Freenet: fix the pitch black attack and scale WoT. Makes
>   Freenet interesting to tech-savvy folks with >10 years of experience.
>
>
> Best wishes,
> Arne
> --
> Unpolitisch sein
> heißt politisch sein
> ohne es zu merken
>



-- 
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: DDG Tasks Bug Bounty Proposal

[Ian]

I think Matthew is right, it might cause legal issues if we're paying someone
anonymously, we have to report all expenditures to the IRS and they might not
react too well to us paying significant amounts of money to anonymous bitcoin
addresses.  It could be considered money-laundering, for example.
There is also a trust issue, since we would probably need to give them access to
source repos and other things - and it would be irresponsible to do that with
someone we know nothing about.
Ian.  





On Sun, May 7, 2017 6:26 PM, Steve Dougherty st...@asksteved.com  wrote:
Is your understanding consistent with Matthew's that FPI cannot pay a developer
who remains anonymous to FPI?

Are you willing to have FPI offer bug bounties? If so, I can put out the call.
Would you rather that we engage individual non-proven developers one at a time
and offer them lump sums for merged code instead? That would make setting a
deadline reasonable, at least, which would be nice.



 Original Message 
Subject: Re: DDG Tasks Bug Bounty Proposal
Local Time: May 6, 2017 3:46 PM
UTC Time: May 6, 2017 7:46 PM
From: i...@locut.us
To: devl@freenetproject.org

Interesting idea, but isn't there a danger of duplicated effort with this
approach?

It would be annoying to put a bunch of work into something only to be beaten to
the finish line by someone else.   From a developer's perspective that would add
to the risk and may be a disincentive to try.

On Sat, May 6, 2017, 4:53 AM Steve Dougherty <st...@asksteved.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,

To my understanding, at least currently xor does not want FPI to pay him for his
work. Some developers on FMS have proposed bug bounties - say, $1000 - for
completing a task like "fix Windows tray / installer to work with 64-bit Java."
This would be in a "first to get reviewed and merged gets paid" fashion, the
idea being we can pay people not yet familiar with the project to familiarize
themselves and not have to commit to paying an unknown developer hourly. At
least one developer has asked that payment be available in crypto currency; this
seems reasonable to me.

Thoughts?

- Steve
-- 
Stacks
http://trystacks.com/  - Our AI will save you money

Re: DDG Tasks Bug Bounty Proposal

[Ian]

Interesting idea, but isn't there a danger of duplicated effort with this
approach?

It would be annoying to put a bunch of work into something only to be
beaten to the finish line by someone else.   From a developer's perspective
that would add to the risk and may be a disincentive to try.

On Sat, May 6, 2017, 4:53 AM Steve Dougherty  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> To my understanding, at least currently xor does not want FPI to pay him
> for his work. Some developers on FMS have proposed bug bounties - say,
> $1000 - for completing a task like "fix Windows tray / installer to work
> with 64-bit Java." This would be in a "first to get reviewed and merged
> gets paid" fashion, the idea being we can pay people not yet familiar with
> the project to familiarize themselves and not have to commit to paying an
> unknown developer hourly. At least one developer has asked that payment be
> available in crypto currency; this seems reasonable to me.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> - Steve
>
-- 
Stacks
http://trystacks.com/ - Our AI will save you money

Tried to deploy a change to the site

[Ian Clarke]

A few minutes ago I made the following minor change to the site (pushed to the
2016-redesign branch).
https://github.com/freenet/website/commit/5dd149b5b04535d6253b44817e5c44be98865de0
A few minutes later I'm still not seeing the change live on the site, did I miss
a step?
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Website quick-guide and snaglist

[Ian Clarke]

I've created a doc to give quick instructions on how to contribute to the site
and also a list of snags that need to be fixed.  Hopefully this can grow into a
quick overview of how everything is wired together here (if Florent or someone
could flesh this out).
Anyone is welcome to address any snag, just mark it with strikethrough  once you
start working on it / finish it.
This doc does not require Google sign-in to edit, tor (please don't abuse) and
can be accessed via Tor (I've tested this):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WjStykIc_BiCircQ7os2xBq-NSDuIm437WZVU4a6Z5E/edit#
Please contribute to the doc, find snags, and (even better!) fix snags :)
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: HSTS and expired cert: our site is down for now

[Ian Clarke]

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 11:19 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org 
wrote:
On Thu, 2017-04-06 at 15:08 +, Ian wrote:

>  Well, it's an improvement over what we have now even if it is

> incomplete :)

> Just for clarity, what is the procedure for deploying improvements?




Pushing them to the existing repository on a different branch. Travis

will auto-build/deploy from there if the build succeeds.




The list of authorized people/process hasn't changed; anyone not on the

list has to send a pull request.




Where is the list?  Any chance you can provide a top-down overview of the setup,
or if this is documented anywhere can you point me to it?  Maybe I've just been
out-of-the-loop but I definitely don't have a good top-down understanding of the
setup.  At least 2 people should have a good enough understanding of this to
admin it.


> Now that it's live hopefully multiple people can fork it and start
> pushing improvements which we can review and merge.

> We should have an approval process for it - it would be ideal if we

> had staging where changes could be reviewed live before being pushed

> to production.




That's the plan. When I get some time I will set it up (two branches,

deploying to two different buckets/FQDNs, like we used to have).




I'm puzzled, when you said:
I won't have time to do anything more for the foreseeable future.
I assumed it meant that we couldn't expect you to do any more work on this, did
I misunderstand?


> Florent, if you won't have time to do anything for the foreseeable
> future, is there someone else familiar enough with how things are set

> up that they can work on it?




Right now there is still massive amounts of work to be done on the

content; IMHO a two step review process would be overkill for now...




Ok, I agree that we should minimize red tape while there is still a lot to be
done.


> It would be well worth spending some of our funding to hire an AWS
> expert to ensure everything is set up nicely and minimize the risk of

> something like this happening in future.  I have a good guy in mind

> (used to work for Amazon so very familiar with AWS).

> Thoughts?




I don't think it would be. This happened because we weren't using AWS

yet. Our new setup is rock-solid and fairly standard: it's an S3 bucket

where the content is served by cloudfront.




I was mostly motivated by the fact that I thought you said you wouldn't be able
to do any more, and yet you seem to be the only person who knows how everything
fits together.  Please correct me if I'm wrong,
I just want to  make sure we don't end up in a situation again where something
breaks and the only person who can fix it is unavailable.  If we can pay someone
competent to help us to get to this point I think it would be well worth it -
but happy to discuss if you think differently.
Ian.

Re: HSTS and expired cert: our site is down for now

[Ian]

Well, it's an improvement over what we have now even if it is incomplete :)
Just for clarity, what is the procedure for deploying improvements?
Now that it's live hopefully multiple people can fork it and start pushing
improvements which we can review and merge.
We should have an approval process for it - it would be ideal if we had staging
where changes could be reviewed live before being pushed to production.
Florent, if you won't have time to do anything for the foreseeable future, is
there someone else familiar enough with how things are set up that they can work
on it?
It would be well worth spending some of our funding to hire an AWS expert to
ensure everything is set up nicely and minimize the risk of something like this
happening in future.  I have a good guy in mind (used to work for Amazon so very
familiar with AWS).
Thoughts?
Ian.  





On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 2:49 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org 
wrote:
I have made the DNS changes; these aren't the problem...




The problem is that the content we serve from the new infrastructure

isn't ready... almost a year in the making... so we have never finished

the infrastructure switch.




Whatever is pushed to 

https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign

will go live; both of you have access; if you care, fix it :)




I won't have time to do anything more for the foreseeable future.




Florent




On Thu, 2017-04-06 at 00:10 +, Ian wrote:

>  Crap, what are we waiting on to get it back up?

> 

> 

> On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 6:35 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de

> wrote:

> > Hi,

> > 

> > The certificate expired and we use HTTP Strict Transport Security

> > (HSTS). That means: Our old site is down until the DNS can be

> > switched

> > over to the AWS site.

> > 

> > Let’s treat this as a test of what would happen if an attacker were

> > to

> > take down our clearnet infrastructure.

> > 

> > Best wishes,

> > Arne

> > --

> > Unpolitisch sein

> > heißt politisch sein

> > ohne es zu merken

> > 

> >

Re: HSTS and expired cert: our site is down for now

[Ian]

Crap, what are we waiting on to get it back up?  





On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 6:35 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:
Hi,




The certificate expired and we use HTTP Strict Transport Security

(HSTS). That means: Our old site is down until the DNS can be switched

over to the AWS site.




Let’s treat this as a test of what would happen if an attacker were to

take down our clearnet infrastructure.




Best wishes,

Arne

--

Unpolitisch sein

heißt politisch sein

ohne es zu merken

Re: Freenet Infrastructure Migration TODO

[Ian Clarke]

Thank you for your work on this Arne.
Regarding the certs, I don't have a strong opinion but doesn't Amazon also do
this?  Since we're migrating to Amazon already and AWS has fairly powerful
multi-user admin capabilities, wouldn't it be better to use them?
Ian.  





On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 5:30 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:
Hi,




This lays out the steps needed to migrate to our new infrastructure with the new
SSL certs. It is a short-term plan, but it should be compatible with moving to
gradle and signed jars for validation of downloads (instead of sha1 files).




If you find any problem in this plan, please say so — ideally with a suggested
fix!

If there’s something missing, please do likewise!




You can find a live-version of this plan on

https://titanpad.com/yKe1kGH902




Basics:




The new repo should be compatible with both plain file storage and retrieving
and verifying dependencies from maven via gradle. I suggest a maven structure,
but we won’t be able to push that to maven central without changing our package
to org.freenetproject — which would break all plugins and scripts and pull
requests (which I think it’s a no-go¹). Nextgens is preparing an S3 bucket at
mvn.freenetproject.org. We’ll start by uploading the binaries there, as
https://mvn.freenetproject.org/org/freenetproject/fred/<#>/fred-<#>.jar{,.sha1,.sig}




Our package stays freenet. We advertise the build number as version.







Tasks:




- release a new build to the new and the existing infrastructure:

  - adjusted paths in updater.sh, updater.cmd, sha1test.jar and fred.

  - adjusted release scripts to upload fred and plugin release files to the new
repo (and create the directories as needed).

  - adjusted gradle to allow publishing to the new repo (with full maven
metadata)

- adjust download paths on the website

- ... ?




paths:
https://mvn.freenetproject.org/org/freenetproject/fred/<#>/fred-<#>.jar{,.sha1,.sig}










¹: it took us more than one year to partially recover from the db4o purge. We
still have plugins which aren’t adjusted to working without db4o, so I don’t
think we’re currently in a position to do large refactoring with side-effects
like that.




Best wishes,

Arne

-- 

Unpolitisch sein

heißt politisch sein

ohne es zu merken






Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian]

Hi Dan, just wanted to check in on this - would be great to have the new site
up!  





On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 1:06 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
Hey Everyone,    We're getting really close now, especially with Florent's work
getting the site to build automatically. I have a few things to work on this
week and weekend but I have a lot more time this weekend than I did last, and
fewer action items. I'm nearly happy with it. Thanks for hanging in there.
Cheers,Dan
On Mar 18, 2017 3:28 AM, "Florent Daigniere" <nextg...@freenetproject.org>
wrote:
You should be able to make those changes yourself from your web-browser
with the github "edit" button on:
https://github.com/freenet/website/blob/2016-redesign/
theme/templates/footer.html

Let's use the issue-tracker rather than the mailing list for it

Florent
PS: I am done tweaking it, it's fast-enough here


On Fri, 2017-03-17 at 21:11 +, Ian Clarke wrote:
> Another one, we should probably fix "184 Followers  Downloads 184
> Likes"
> at the bottom.
> " Downloads" probably isn't the message we want to be sending :)
> Also not sure if we need to include how many followers/likes we have
> here, or if
> we really want that there is probably a FB widget we can embed.
> Ian.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 9:25 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> Some feedback on the site re: mobile device format:
> Looks great however there's something a little strange with th
> e layout on my
> phone. The first logo seems to push the margins out to the right
> effecting the
> scrolling.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 9:15 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the
> page looks
> good when shared :
> https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Hi Florent,
> Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access
> staging.freenetproject.org  I get an "Access Denied" error. In the
> past I recall
> there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?
> Thanks,Dan
> On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" <nextgens@freenetproject.
> org>
> wrote:
> I have deployed it on
> https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
> It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
> https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
> and auto-deployed to:
> https://staging.freenetproject.org/
>
> Florent
>
>
> On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > Hi Ian,
> > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since
> > nobody
> > has
> > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> > creation,
> > not from the original design I want a bit of review.
> >
> > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> > community
> > feedback is important in general.
> >
> > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> > pointed
> > out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
> > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@trystacks.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Dan,
> > >
> > > Any updates?
> > >
> > > Ian.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > > change
> > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features"
> > > > to
> > > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what
> > > > Freenet
> > > > is, and
> > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really
> > > > belong
> > > > there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
> > > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/  Some resource
> > > > images
> > > > are
> > > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and
> > > > I'm not
> > > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break
> > > > with
> > > > our
> > > > i18n_subsites usage). Please i

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Another one, we should probably fix "184 Followers  Downloads 184 Likes"
at the bottom.
" Downloads" probably isn't the message we want to be sending :)
Also not sure if we need to include how many followers/likes we have here, or if
we really want that there is probably a FB widget we can embed.
Ian.  





On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 9:25 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
Some feedback on the site re: mobile device format:
Looks great however there's something a little strange with the layout on my
phone. The first logo seems to push the margins out to the right effecting the
scrolling.







On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 9:15 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the page looks
good when shared :
https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup  





On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
Hi Florent,
Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access 
staging.freenetproject.org  I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I recall
there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?
Thanks,Dan
On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" <nextg...@freenetproject.org>
wrote:
I have deployed it on
https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
and auto-deployed to:
https://staging.freenetproject.org/

Florent


On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> Hi Ian,
> I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody
> has
> commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> creation,
> not from the original design I want a bit of review.
>
> My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> community
> feedback is important in general.
>
> After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> pointed
> out.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@trystacks.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Dan,
> >
> > Any updates?
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> >
> > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > change
> > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to
> > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what Freenet
> > > is, and
> > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really
> > > belong
> > > there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Everyone,
> > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
> > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/  Some resource images
> > > are
> > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and
> > > I'm not
> > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with
> > > our
> > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
> > >
> > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated
> > > from the
> > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll
> > > change its
> > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same
> > > page. The
> > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po
> > > files) and
> > > gives them a language entry.
> > >
> > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_bab@w
> > > eb.de>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Great!
> > >
> > > > I seem to constantly
> > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,
> > >
> > > That’s common problem ☺
> > >
> > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet
> > > > page. I
> > >
> > > found
> > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749
> > > > I think
> > > > it's worth having something.
> > >
> >

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Some feedback on the site re: mobile device format:
Looks great however there's something a little strange with the layout on my
phone. The first logo seems to push the margins out to the right effecting the
scrolling.







On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 9:15 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the page looks
good when shared :
https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup  





On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
Hi Florent,
Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access 
staging.freenetproject.org  I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I recall
there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?
Thanks,Dan
On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" <nextg...@freenetproject.org>
wrote:
I have deployed it on
https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
and auto-deployed to:
https://staging.freenetproject.org/

Florent


On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> Hi Ian,
> I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody
> has
> commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> creation,
> not from the original design I want a bit of review.
>
> My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> community
> feedback is important in general.
>
> After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> pointed
> out.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@trystacks.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Dan,
> >
> > Any updates?
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> >
> > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > change
> > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to
> > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what Freenet
> > > is, and
> > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really
> > > belong
> > > there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Everyone,
> > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
> > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/  Some resource images
> > > are
> > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and
> > > I'm not
> > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with
> > > our
> > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
> > >
> > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated
> > > from the
> > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll
> > > change its
> > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same
> > > page. The
> > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po
> > > files) and
> > > gives them a language entry.
> > >
> > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_bab@w
> > > eb.de>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Great!
> > >
> > > > I seem to constantly
> > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,
> > >
> > > That’s common problem ☺
> > >
> > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet
> > > > page. I
> > >
> > > found
> > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749
> > > > I think
> > > > it's worth having something.
> > >
> > > There’s also the Deep Web community:
> > > https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250
> > >
> > > > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links
> > > > unless
> > > > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too.
> > >
> > > There’s a difference between thinking we should b

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the page looks
good when shared :
https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup  





On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
Hi Florent,
Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access 
staging.freenetproject.org  I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I recall
there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?
Thanks,Dan
On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" <nextg...@freenetproject.org>
wrote:
I have deployed it on
https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
and auto-deployed to:
https://staging.freenetproject.org/

Florent


On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> Hi Ian,
> I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody
> has
> commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> creation,
> not from the original design I want a bit of review.
>
> My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> community
> feedback is important in general.
>
> After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> pointed
> out.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@trystacks.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Dan,
> >
> > Any updates?
> >
> > Ian.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
> >
> > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > change
> > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to
> > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what Freenet
> > > is, and
> > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really
> > > belong
> > > there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Everyone,
> > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
> > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/  Some resource images
> > > are
> > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and
> > > I'm not
> > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with
> > > our
> > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
> > >
> > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated
> > > from the
> > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll
> > > change its
> > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same
> > > page. The
> > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po
> > > files) and
> > > gives them a language entry.
> > >
> > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Dan
> > >
> > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_bab@w
> > > eb.de>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Great!
> > >
> > > > I seem to constantly
> > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,
> > >
> > > That’s common problem ☺
> > >
> > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet
> > > > page. I
> > >
> > > found
> > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749
> > > > I think
> > > > it's worth having something.
> > >
> > > There’s also the Deep Web community:
> > > https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250
> > >
> > > > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links
> > > > unless
> > > > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too.
> > >
> > > There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and
> > > having
> > > someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say
> > > we
> > > should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the
> > > cool
> > > people are are nowada

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Same for me, access denied.  Probably not much reason to require a password.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 7:30 PM Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Florent,
>
>  Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access
> staging.freenetproject.org I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I
> recall there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" <nextg...@freenetproject.org>
> wrote:
>
> I have deployed it on
> https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign
> It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it
> https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website
> and auto-deployed to:
> https://staging.freenetproject.org/
>
> Florent
>
>
> On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:
> > Hi Ian,
> > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody
> > has
> > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own
> > creation,
> > not from the original design I want a bit of review.
> >
> > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so
> > community
> > feedback is important in general.
> >
> > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you
> > pointed
> > out.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> >
> > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@trystacks.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Dan,
> > >
> > > Any updates?
> > >
> > > Ian.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should
> > > > change
> > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to
> > > > "Features".  We should probably have more to explain what Freenet
> > > > is, and
> > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really
> > > > belong
> > > > there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.
> > > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images
> > > > are
> > > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and
> > > > I'm not
> > > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with
> > > > our
> > > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
> > > >
> > > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated
> > > > from the
> > > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll
> > > > change its
> > > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same
> > > > page. The
> > > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po
> > > > files) and
> > > > gives them a language entry.
> > > >
> > > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Dan
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_bab@w
> > > > eb.de>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.
> > > >
> > > > Great!
> > > >
> > > > > I seem to constantly
> > > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,
> > > >
> > > > That’s common problem ☺
> > > >
> > > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet
> > > > > page. I
> > > >
> > > > found
> > > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749
> > > > > I think
> > > > > it's worth having something.
> > > >
> > > > There’s also the Deep Web community:
> > > > https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250
> > > >
> > > > >

Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Hey Dan,
Any updates?
Ian.  





On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com  wrote:
Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should change "What's
Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to "Features".  We should
probably have more to explain what Freenet is, and the Download link in the
"What's Freenet" section doesn't really belong there.  





On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
Hey Everyone,    I've put a new release up here:
https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/  Some resource
images are broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and I'm
not certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with our
i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated from the design
we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll change its functionality
so that changing language keeps you on the same page. The language menu picks up
any messages.mo files (generated from .po files) and gives them a language
entry.
I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
Thanks,Dan
On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_...@web.de>  wrote:

Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> writes:

> Hey Everyone,
>     I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.

Great!

> I seem to constantly
> find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,

That’s common problem ☺

> I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I found
> this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749  I think
> it's worth having something.

There’s also the Deep Web community:
https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250

> I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links unless
> somebody thinks we should have a presence there too.

There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and having
someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say we
should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the cool
people are are nowadays. If not, not. I think this goes for every social
network.

> The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we
> incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be
> copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social
> media would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth
> while).

Sounds reasonable.

Best wishes,
Arne
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should change "What's
Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to "Features".  We should
probably have more to explain what Freenet is, and the Download link in the
"What's Freenet" section doesn't really belong there.  





On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
Hey Everyone,    I've put a new release up here:
https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/  Some resource
images are broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and I'm
not certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with our
i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment.
Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated from the design
we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll change its functionality
so that changing language keeps you on the same page. The language menu picks up
any messages.mo files (generated from .po files) and gives them a language
entry.
I appreciate any and all constructive feedback.
Thanks,Dan
On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide <arne_...@web.de>  wrote:

Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> writes:

> Hey Everyone,
>     I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow.

Great!

> I seem to constantly
> find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever,

That’s common problem ☺

> I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I found
> this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749  I think
> it's worth having something.

There’s also the Deep Web community:
https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250

> I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links unless
> somebody thinks we should have a presence there too.

There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and having
someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say we
should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the cool
people are are nowadays. If not, not. I think this goes for every social
network.

> The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we
> incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be
> copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social
> media would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth
> while).

Sounds reasonable.

Best wishes,
Arne
--
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heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken

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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 3:51 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:Ian
Clarke <i...@freenetproject.org> writes:




> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 9:06 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:Our typical

> developer is using a highly sophisticated terminal mail client 

>

> which has received decades of development.

> Really? Have you conducted a survey? I can't remember the last time I saw

> anyone using a terminal mail client, it was probably 15 years ago.




I do — I use mu4e on Emacs, about half the time via commandline.

I know that this is not a survey, it is just one datapoint.


Interesting, I used mutt for a while back in 1998 or 1999, them were the days.
 Google Inbox these days (which does have some annoying qualities, doesn't seem
to do so well with formatting quoted replies).
Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

Ok, I'm not making a specific point about any particular decision, I just
don't want us be paralyzed by needing to accommodate every obscure edge-case in
anything we do.  






On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 12:54 PM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 06:39:00 PM Ian Clarke wrote:


On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 9:06 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:



> Our typical developer is using a highly sophisticated terminal mail client



> which has received decades of development.







Really? Have you conducted a survey?



I can't remember the last time I saw



anyone using a terminal mail client, it was probably 15 years ago.





Look at the user agent of the mails of Arne you have replied to in this very 


thread. They're sent by emacs.

There in fact also is a survey - which shows mutt has a *GROWING* user amount:

https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=mutt




Our developer's liking terminals is also a general impression from our daily 


discussions on the IRC team chat over the past years.

Steve uses a terminal IRC client. Florent too as far as I remember.




Also we haven't had a Windows installer for years because from our dozens of 

contributors *nobody* was using Windows to the point of being able to maintain 


an installer.

Yes this is unrelated to mail, but it shows how far our folks are located on 


the "open source spectrum".




So please chose wisely with regards to shiny JavaScript cloud solutions :|




Disclaimer: I use a GUI mail client, this is not self-serving.



Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 9:06 AM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:Our typical
developer is using a highly sophisticated terminal mail client 

which has received decades of development.
Really?  Have you conducted a survey?  I can't remember the last time I saw
anyone using a terminal mail client, it was probably 15 years ago.
Ian.
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Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks

[Ian Clarke]

The funding (combined with a lot of work by Dan) has bought us a new website,
we should be seeing the fruits of this soon.  It only cost a few thousand $$$.
Ian.  





On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 8:53 AM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote:

> What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago)

> from being disbursed?




Finding someone qualified to hire.




While it is indeed frustrating to see no progress here, I would please remind 

you that all of us are volunteers currently which means we have very limited 

time - and that time is fully consumed by the fact that we have to:

- migrate the website

- migrate the 3 wikis

- migrate the bugtracker (I'm at it)

- migrate the mailing lists and mail

- do a Freenet release since there has not been one for half a year and we 

must do one soon due to the SSL certificate expiring




All of those are complex tasks, and thus it would be very unwise to now start 

the even more complex task of hiring someone AND reviewing their code for 

whether the quality is sufficient / they aren't ripping us of.




Thus I would propose we wait until the server migration is finished before we 

deal with the hiring.




> I propose March 15th that the money is spent, to the best of the current

> results of the poll and all discussion surrounding it.




Sorry but it would be absolutely impossible to find someone trustworthy enough 

to hand them over $27500 right away in that timespan.

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[freenet-dev] Freenet social media links (was: Re: Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Dan,
Given that any link is a de-facto endorsement, we shouldn't link to any social
media page that isn't officially affiliated with the project.
For example, the @freenet Twitter handle is apparently controlled by someone
with the email address "jo*@gmail.com" - I don't think I know this
person, does anyone else?  They seem to be squatting on the username, I don't
see any tweets since it was registered in 2008.
@freenetproject seems to be associated with the email address
"tw*@f*.***" - I'm guessing this is twit...@freenetproject.org?
 Who does this go to?  Is anyone actively administering this?
Ian.  





On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 1:30 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
Hey Everyone,    I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. I seem to
constantly find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, I need
everyone's help catching the big things I haven't noticed. There are two things
that are near-show-stoppers I intend to fix tomorrow afternoon.
I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I found this:
 https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 I think it's worth
having something. I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media
links unless somebody thinks we should have a presence there too. The difference
from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we incidentally generate content to
put on those sites (news items can be copied and pasted and/or linked to), the
more image-oriented social media would take extra effort (that I don't believe
would be worth while).
Thanks,Dan
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Ian Clarke <i...@trystacks.com>  wrote:
Thanks for the update and your hard work on this!


On Wed, Feb 15, 2017, 9:42 PM Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just a quick update. I ran into an issue that cost me a lot of time.
Frustratingly it was something I removed when I first uploaded to github. I've
found that trivial issues cause difficult to trace errors in pelican.
I'm still moving forward, but I did have this setback. I have a three day
weekend so I'll be pushing very hard through Monday to get everything in order.
Ideally I'll seek feedback Saturday and/or Sunday and prepare for release
Monday, this last 20% has been rough but the end is in sight.
Thanks,Dan
On Feb 9, 2017 6:15 PM, "Dan Roberts" <ademan...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Ian,    I didn't have a whole lot of time last weekend but I've been
squeezing in time during the week as my week permitted... I'm planning to set
aside most of this weekend to work on it though, I should be able to address all
of the known issues during that time, so we're getting very close.
Thanks,Dan
On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ian Clarke <i...@trystacks.com>  wrote:
Hey Dan,
How are things going with the new website?  Are we close to going live with it?
Ian.  





On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:



Ian Clarke <i...@freenetproject.org> writes:




> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:A

>> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots.

> We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean
design.




Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a

few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most

visitors).




>> Leap over censorship

>> Escape total surveillance

> I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun. When did

> we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote?




I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it.




My point is: We need a strong tagline.




> > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just

> > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again

> > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it

> > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.”

> > — Unkwon

>

> I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on the

> front page. It would look immature.




Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove

that part of the quote.




Best wishes,

Arne

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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 4:19 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org 
wrote:

Or we could just migrate to slack (like Ian suggested ages ago). It's
not like there has been any meaningful, productive, development-related

discussion on this mailing list in the last few years.


While I'm more familiar with Slack, https://gitter.im/ is an alternative we
should consider that's used by a few open source projects.
Slack may have more of a barrier to entry for users, for example the Kotlin open
source project appears to require an external invite mechanism before users can
access Slack - http://slack.kotlinlang.org/
However, Gitter seems to require a Github account, which might be a problem for
non-developers.
As for complaints about proprietary services, nothing in the goals of our
project mandates that we only ever use open source tools.
Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 11:19 AM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:What about a
stupid, plain old htaccess file?




Don't know if that will work with our current plan to host on AWS, but hopefully
there is some equivalent way to remap URLs that we can use.
But we need to find a hoster for the mailing lists and mail forwards anyway,
and they usually offer that in a bundle with a domain, webspace, email, etc.




Google Groups?




So we could get rid of the maintenance of running our own server, keep the 

mail stuff, and the URIs via htaccess.




I agree with the goal, not sure if that specific approach will work but
something along those lines.




At my current hoster I pay 2.94 dollars / month for a domain, 5 GB webspace, 5
GB mailspace AND mailing list & mail forward support.

- that's cheap and sufficient, and I didn't check whether they're the cheapest 

for like 5 years, there may be even cheaper companies nowadays.




I'd really like us to use AWS for as much as possible re: hosting.  It has a lot
of benefits, one of which is powerful multi-user support.




Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

[Ian]

Re: deployment, I think the ideal would be automatic deployment from the
github repo on a merge to a production branch.  I assume we can do that via an
AWS Lambda?  





On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 12:40 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:
The website is fully static and should be fine with s3 + cloudflare. I don't
think it makes much sense to use github for any of this hosting, we already
threw out all of the advantages we'd get from it back in october or november for
the translation support, and switching to pelican didn't change the situation.
The pending question for me is how to handle deployment, I figure I'll end up
working with Florent to develop a lambda job, it should be pretty straight
forward.
Thanks,Dan

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Ian <i...@locut.us>  wrote:
Dan, can you clarify the current plan for website hosting per Nextgens'
questions below?
Ian.  





On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 2:29 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org 
wrote:
We need to know what we are hosting before we can make any determination

here... Last I've heard, the plan was to start with github's hosting

facility and to put either cloudflare or cloudfront in front (since

github doesn't do SSL). If it turns out that we have a fully static

website, I suggest we do s3 + cloudfront (SSL all the way instead). I

have said that I would take care of it and I will, provided the new

website materialises.




There are numerous related quirks that need ironing out; Fred pins the

certificate authority FPI uses to securely fetch plugins and last-resort 

updates... this means that changing the CA we use will take a mandatory

release (which obviously involves some planning).




By the way, we need to plan for the mailserver / mailman too (this is

also reliant on having a valid certificate as currently configured).




Florent




On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 14:26 -0500, Steve Dougherty wrote:

> Sure, I'll discuss this with nextgens.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>  Original Message 

> On Feb 21, 2017, 11:42 AM, Ian wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Steve, are you in a position to take ownership of this task (renewing

> our cert and migrating to Let's Encrypt)?

> 

> What about using AWS, don't they do free certs now? It seems like

> Florent is keen on migrating everything to AWS (except for what's on

> Github), if so it might be nice to have the cert through AWS too (and

> AWS has good multi-user functionality).

> 

> Ian.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 9:31 AM, Steve doughertyst...@asksteved.com

> wrote:

> 

>  Original Message 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

> 

> Local Time: February 21, 2017 8:07 AM

> 

> UTC Time: February 21, 2017 1:07 PM

> 

> From: i...@locut.us

> 

> To: Discussion of development issues <devl@freenetproject.org>,

> Florent Daignière <nextg...@freenetproject.org>

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Did we migrate over to AWS for SSL? I'm not at all familiar with how

> this is

> 

> set up - who is? Florent?

> 

> 

> 

> 

> We bought an SSL cert from Alpha SSL and use it with Apache on osprey.

> My inclination would be to move to Let's Encrypt.

> 

> ___

> 

> Devl mailing list

> 

> Devl@freenetproject.org

> 

> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl

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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

I don't want to break links, but I also don't want that to become a blocker
for updating to the new website.
Hopefully there can be some way we can re-map URLs and then those that care
about breaking links can migrate the important stuff over quickly.
Ian.  





On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 3:07 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:



Florent Daigniere <nextg...@freenetproject.org> writes:




> On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:

>> Florent just warned again, that the clock on osprey (all our

>> non-standard hosting) is ticking. If we don’t act, this means that all

>> links to the wiki stop working.

>

> This has never been expressed as a requirement until now. I personally

> don't have a problem with the links being broken.

>

> https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2016-August/039236.html

> 7 months into the plan, it's insane to start changing the requirements.




I always said that we need to preserve links. Not only for the wiki. And

not only starting 2016. That I get ignored is not my fault

here. Breaking existing links and by that breaking the guides from the

times when Freenet was a focus of anti-surveillance culture is dumb.




This is not personal for me, but it is a topic I care about.




It is dumb when companies break links, and it is dumber if we do it.




Best wishes,

Arne

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Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

[Ian]

Dan, can you clarify the current plan for website hosting per Nextgens'
questions below?
Ian.  





On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 2:29 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org 
wrote:
We need to know what we are hosting before we can make any determination

here... Last I've heard, the plan was to start with github's hosting

facility and to put either cloudflare or cloudfront in front (since

github doesn't do SSL). If it turns out that we have a fully static

website, I suggest we do s3 + cloudfront (SSL all the way instead). I

have said that I would take care of it and I will, provided the new

website materialises.




There are numerous related quirks that need ironing out; Fred pins the

certificate authority FPI uses to securely fetch plugins and last-resort 

updates... this means that changing the CA we use will take a mandatory

release (which obviously involves some planning).




By the way, we need to plan for the mailserver / mailman too (this is

also reliant on having a valid certificate as currently configured).




Florent




On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 14:26 -0500, Steve Dougherty wrote:

> Sure, I'll discuss this with nextgens.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>  Original Message 

> On Feb 21, 2017, 11:42 AM, Ian wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Steve, are you in a position to take ownership of this task (renewing

> our cert and migrating to Let's Encrypt)?

> 

> What about using AWS, don't they do free certs now? It seems like

> Florent is keen on migrating everything to AWS (except for what's on

> Github), if so it might be nice to have the cert through AWS too (and

> AWS has good multi-user functionality).

> 

> Ian.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 9:31 AM, Steve Dougherty  st...@asksteved.com

> wrote:

> 

>  Original Message 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

> 

> Local Time: February 21, 2017 8:07 AM

> 

> UTC Time: February 21, 2017 1:07 PM

> 

> From: i...@locut.us

> 

> To: Discussion of development issues <devl@freenetproject.org>,

> Florent Daignière <nextg...@freenetproject.org>

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Did we migrate over to AWS for SSL? I'm not at all familiar with how

> this is

> 

> set up - who is? Florent?

> 

> 

> 

> 

> We bought an SSL cert from Alpha SSL and use it with Apache on osprey.

> My inclination would be to move to Let's Encrypt.

> 

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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

It's ok, the project can pay for it if everyone is in agreement, and if
someone is willing to handle the migration.  






On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 12:30 PM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:
On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 01:24:50 PM Steve Dougherty wrote:


We're at the point where I would repeat myself. For reasons already stated,



I'd like to continue using Mantis. I am willing to pay the hosting costs.



There are more than directly financial costs in migrating to a new



platform.





Great, I'd suggest you then pay only half, and I pay the other half :)




As an only exception I would propose that FPI pays the $200 one-time migration 


fee as that is something completely independent of which bugtracker we use.

And $200 being a wage for one person day is appropriate - it will probably be 

a week of work to migrate any bugtracker for us being untrained with that, so 


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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

$23/month is expensive for what this is (considering that Github is free for
open source projects and does a lot more) :-/
Ian.  





On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 11:58 AM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:
On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 06:02:25 PM x...@freenetproject.org wrote:

> > What company can we use for Mantis hosting?

> 

> I will allocate a day for googling all of them ASAP, I'll try to do it

> within a week.




Actually, the decision which company to ask first can be solved pretty 

naturally - Mantis has a recommendation linked from the frontpage of their 

website, if they recommend it the company ought to work somehow:

https://www.mantisbt.org/hosting.php




They have a $22.92/month plan which would likely suit us if there wasn't the 

very low user limit of 15 - we have 1200.

However I've calculated our daily average users to be 0.3!




I've sent them a mail which explains that we're a non-profit and thus have 

high user churn with low activity, and asked them nicely to make an exception 

& give us an offer.




I'll let you know their answer.



Ian Clarke
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Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

[Ian]

Steve, are you in a position to take ownership of this task (renewing our cert
and migrating to Let's Encrypt)?
What about using AWS, don't they do free certs now?  It seems like Florent is
keen on migrating everything to AWS (except for what's on Github), if so it
might be nice to have the cert through AWS too (and AWS has good multi-user
functionality).
Ian.  





On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 9:31 AM, Steve Dougherty st...@asksteved.com  wrote:
 Original Message 




Subject: Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

Local Time: February 21, 2017 8:07 AM

UTC Time: February 21, 2017 1:07 PM

From: i...@locut.us

To: Discussion of development issues <devl@freenetproject.org>, Florent
Daignière <nextg...@freenetproject.org>




Did we migrate over to AWS for SSL? I'm not at all familiar with how this is

set up - who is? Florent?




We bought an SSL cert from Alpha SSL and use it with Apache on osprey. My
inclination would be to move to Let's Encrypt.

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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

Your ability to take something that could be said in 3 sentences and turn it
into a multi-page melodramatic essay never ceases to amaze me.  


What company can we use for Mantis hosting?
Ian.
Ian Clarke
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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 9:51 AM, Steve Dougherty st...@asksteved.com  wrote:
Ian, the thing I find frustrating with your approach is that we'd regularly be
moving to something new based on what's literally trending.


That's a caricature of what I've said.  My main point is that we should not be
administering our own server when there are good free 3rd-party hosted
alternatives for everything we need to do.
My secondary point is that Mantis is a dying piece of software, and it has been
dying for years, but if you are all really that attached to it then we should
find a reliable and cost-effective 3rd-party hosted solution, which the project
can pay for.
Unlike GitHub's wiki, I do not see a (semi-)automated way to export GitHub
issues into another system
Github Issues has a simple and comprehensive API which makes it just as easy to
export data from it as from anything else, moreso given that it's likely to be
much better supported than Mantis going forward.
, and I really don't want to put our issues in something we can't later move
them from. (I do see some extraction scripts using the API but they seem to
output just HTML; I do suppose that's solvable but would mean additional work.)

You don't even know what future issue tracker we'd want to export to, so it's
hardly surprising that a script for it doesn't yet exist.  I would estimate just
a few hours of dev work to export from Github Issues to any other reasonable
issue tracker.
I do agree there's a big backlog of issues that are probably not going to be
addressed anytime soon, but that's hardly unique for a long-running project.
Manual migration is not a viable way forward for the bug tracker.

Nobody is advocating that.
Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 8:15 AM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:
On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 02:01:02 PM Ian Clarke wrote:

> If necessary we can continue to pay for our own server, however I think it

> would be better for everyone if we could migrate over to solutions that

> don't require that we manage our own servers, such as Github Issues for

> bugtracking.




I've looked at GitHub issues for bugtracking, they are not an option:




The most simple issue with it would be that it would require us to ask every 

pre-existing bug reporter to allow us acccess to their GitHub account so we 

can link their issues against their account.  We have 1158 user accounts, so
this isn't going to happen.




We wouldn't have to do that, we could add a note/tag to each issue with the
original reporter and those that are still active in the project can change the
ownership of their issues to themselves.
Also, your argument could be used to prevent us from ever moving away from
Mantis as our bugtracker.  Looking at Google Trends, Mantis has been steadily
declining in popularity for at least the last 5 years.  Our dependence on it
will become more and more of a headache with time, even if we find a free hosted
solution for it.


Also consider that we're a paranoia focused project, so even our most active
contributors might not grant access.




As mentioned, there is no requirement for anyone to grant anything for us to
migrate our issues to Github or another solution.


As a paranoia-focussed project, the fact that we are maintaining our own server
without the resources to maintain it properly (including security) should be a
much greater concern than it appears to be.


It also is very unlikely that GitHub can provide a 1:1 mapping of the 

datamodel of Mantis, so we would lose lots of critical information.




Such as?


Given that us trying to migrate a Wiki resulted in 4 Wikis, we should probably 

quit trying to pretend we have the resources to migrate things to different 

software and keep using the one we're familiar with.




We should quit trying to pretend we have the resources to manage our own server,
and acknowledge that sooner or later (preferably sooner) we'll be forced to bite
the bullet and switch to a modern hosted bugtracker.  It's not a question of
"if", but "when" and "how".


I cannot name a single critical feature which Mantis is lacking for our
purposes anyway, and I am probably the one who currently uses our Mantis the 

most.




The most critical feature it's lacking is that someone else administers the
server it runs on.  The fact that it has been declining steadily in popularity
for at least 5 years is another serious concern.
The security impact can be lessened by frequent backup (I can offer that as 

well) and hosting our actual website + binaries elsewhere, which I am fine 

with.




Frequent backups won't help us if the server is compromised.
I have been running my own server with a dozen of services for like a decade,
I'm not new to that. I even wrote a 90 page documentation of its settings :D




Even if you can completely replace what Florent has been doing, being solely
dependent on one person is concerning, particularly when it is entirely
unnecessary for us to manage our own server when everything we do can be handled
by widely-used, hosted, and free third-party services.


> and nor should we need to since there are free and widely used hosted
> services that do almost everything we need to do. Ian.




If you can tell me one which can provide free Mantis hosting or at least a 

full mapping of the Mantis data model I will have a look at it.




That's not the requirement.  Why don't you tell me what specifically Github
Issues cannot do that is important to us.


- Just because something is also called "bugtracker" doesn't mean that 

migrating to it wouldn't cause deleting 80% of the information we have stored 

in Mantis.




Mantis is legacy software that has been steadily declining in popularity for
years.  github Issues is powerful, hosted by a free service we're already using,
has a flexible API, and doesn't require that we manage our own server (which is
expensive, risky, and time consuming).
I doubt we would really need to lose anything important if we migrated to a
solution other than Mantis, but IMHO continuing to maintain our own server
unnecessarily isn't an option any more.
I'm also curious as to the value of much of the data in Mantis, I mean, are most
of the issues in there still relevant?  Are they ever likely to be fixed or will
they just gather dust indefinitely?  What is the process by which we prioritize
the issues in there and fix them?
Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki

[Ian Clarke]

If necessary we can continue to pay for our own server, however I think it
would be better for everyone if we could migrate over to solutions that don't
require that we manage our own servers, such as Github Issues for bugtracking.
 These servers are a time drain and a security vulnerability.
If Florent is no-longer willing to do it, we simply don't have anyone with the
expertise and time to manage a server, and nor should we need to since there are
free and widely used hosted services that do almost everything we need to do.
Ian.  





On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 7:56 AM, x...@freenetproject.org  wrote:
On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 08:54:20 AM Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:

> Hi,

> 

> Florent just warned again, that the clock on osprey (all our

> non-standard hosting) is ticking. If we don’t act, this means that all

> links to the wiki stop working.




I've read the IRC discussion, and I don't see any reason why our server should 

go down except the fact that it looks like Florent isn't in the mood anymore 

to maintain it and thus threatens to pull the plug on it when the new site 

goes live.

There is at least one other person willing to maintain/host it, he should just 

ask who wants to deal with it instead of treating it like his personal kingdom 

which must go down with him.




With regards to the issue of paying it:

I'm even at the point where I am so scared of the potentially happening 

nuclear act of destroying our codebase's maintainability by deleting the 

bugtracker that I would actually consider paying for the a server myself if 

Ian really doesn't want FPI to do so (albeit please be aware that I've 

severely damaged my finances by volunteering for over a year, which was worth 

thousands of dollars, and continuing to do so, so I'd be happy if I don't have 

to, or if at least someone else paid a part).

Hell, the project HAS $25k which we cannot even manage to spend, we could 

probably pay a server for decades...

So money isn't an issue as well.




So anyway, it's completely acceptable for him to not want to volunteer on 

certain things anymore, but he must not take down our infrastructure just 

because he isn't in the mood for dealing with it.

The website isn't the only important thing on it.




I'm willing to have a look at how to maintain the thing if someone gives me 

access to the shell / web interface of the hoster.

Arne, would you be willing to also participate in maintenance?




> To avoid that, I can provide hosting of a static copy of the wiki with

> links at the top of each article to the new github based wiki. I already

> talked about this with Florent, so I’m now taking this here for wider

> discussion.




While this is a kind offer, it will lead us into a trap which we already fell 

into once:

When we migrated from $old_wiki_software to MediaWiki, we put the old one in 

read-only mode.

As a result, nobody knows what has been migrated and what hasn't because 

people cannot delete things right after they migrated them. Thus as migration 

is very difficult now, the old wiki is STILL is running and has been for 

almost a decade:

https://old-wiki.freenetproject.org




Further, we are also running a second MediaWiki instance as the French wiki

- so we now have 4 wikis!




Thus, I would say the proper way to do migration now is:

- Keep hosting the full software of the old Wikis so they can be writeable.

- Ask people to *delete* things they migrated.

- Consider aborting the migration to GitHub given that it has been running for 

months and it seems like nobody wants to finish it. 3 Wikis were enough 

already, we shouldn't start a new one if we cannot even finish the migration 

of the old new ones.




-- 

Maintainer of the Web of Trust and Freetalk subprojects of Freenet

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Re: [freenet-dev] 5 weeks till our SSL certificate expires

[Ian]

Did we migrate over to AWS for SSL?  I'm not at all familiar with how this is
set up - who is?  Florent?  





On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 2:08 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:
Hi,







Our SSL certificate expires Wed 05 Apr 2017 22:47:32 CET GMT.







… /me makes a dramatic pause …







That’s a deadline. Almost literally.




From what I see, we need to address that for:




- the wiki (see my offer)

- the bugtracker

- the site (thanks to the work on that to Dave)

- loading plugins over clearnet

- … what’s missing?







Best wishes,

Arne




PS: Deepest gratitude to Florent for his persistency to bring this up

  again and again.

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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Thanks for the update and your hard work on this!

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017, 9:42 PM Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just a quick update. I ran into an issue that cost me a lot of time.
> Frustratingly it was something I removed when I first uploaded to github.
> I've found that trivial issues cause difficult to trace errors in pelican.
>
> I'm still moving forward, but I did have this setback. I have a three day
> weekend so I'll be pushing very hard through Monday to get everything in
> order. Ideally I'll seek feedback Saturday and/or Sunday and prepare for
> release Monday, this last 20% has been rough but the end is in sight.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Feb 9, 2017 6:15 PM, "Dan Roberts" <ademan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Ian,
> I didn't have a whole lot of time last weekend but I've been squeezing
> in time during the week as my week permitted... I'm planning to set aside
> most of this weekend to work on it though, I should be able to address all
> of the known issues during that time, so we're getting very close.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ian Clarke <i...@trystacks.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Dan,
>
> How are things going with the new website?  Are we close to going live
> with it?
>
> Ian.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote:
>
>
> Ian Clarke <i...@freenetproject.org> writes:
>
>
> > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de
> wrote:A
>
> >> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots.
>
> > We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean
> design.
>
>
> Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a
>
> few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most
>
> visitors).
>
>
> >> Leap over censorship
>
> >> Escape total surveillance
>
> > I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun.
> When did
>
> > we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote?
>
>
> I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it.
>
>
> My point is: We need a strong tagline.
>
>
> > > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just
>
> > > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again
>
> > > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it
>
> > > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.”
>
> > > — Unkwon
>
> >
>
> > I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on
> the
>
> > front page. It would look immature.
>
>
> Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove
>
> that part of the quote.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Arne
>
> --
>
> Unpolitisch sein
>
> heißt politisch sein
>
> ohne es zu merken
>
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>
>
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Hey Dan,
How are things going with the new website?  Are we close to going live with it?
Ian.  





On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:



Ian Clarke <i...@freenetproject.org> writes:




> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote:A

>> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots.

> We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean
design.




Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a

few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most

visitors).




>> Leap over censorship

>> Escape total surveillance

> I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun. When did

> we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote?




I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it.




My point is: We need a strong tagline.




> > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just

> > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again

> > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it

> > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.”

> > — Unkwon

>

> I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on the

> front page. It would look immature.




Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove

that part of the quote.




Best wishes,

Arne

-- 

Unpolitisch sein

heißt politisch sein

ohne es zu merken

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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:A
random thought (no requirement): It would be cool if we could show
some content from Freenet within the rabbit shape. Maybe adding a

twinkling eye to the rabbit, followed by short flashes of screenshots.




Hmm, not sure about that, I think it might detract from the clean design.




More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots.

We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean design.
About the content: The tagline ("browse ... ") sounds weak and does not
make it clear that you can only access content within Freenet. That is

stronger on our current site, though still not perfectly clear that this

is only for sites in Freenet:




> Leap over censorship

> Escape total surveillance




I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun.  When did
we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote?
“After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just

shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again

had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it

suites the name pretty well if you ask me.”

— Unkwon




I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on the
front page.  It would look immature.
Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian]

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 3:22 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com  wrote:I've
hosted the current state of the redesign here for now:

https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/
This looks awesome Dan!  I'll file a few issues for some minor glitches.


There are still known issues, but I've enabled github issues on the
project. Please feel free to report issues and comments/criticism as you

come across them. I plan to spend some time tomorrow squashing more bugs

that resulted from the port to pelican.




For others, here is the direct link to where to file issues: 
https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/issues
Ian.
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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

I use FB, and we already have a Freenet page -
https://www.facebook.com/freenetp2p/
It's not well maintained, but it is getting about 15 likes per week or so.  If
anyone would like to assist with it let me know.  





On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 4:07 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de  wrote:
Hi,




Dan Roberts <ademan...@gmail.com> writes:

> Ian: Are you comfortable with creating social media accounts for Freenet?

> Our design assumes their existence. I think a Facebook account is

> worthwhile in any case.




As far as I know we have a twitter account. Does anyone among us use

Facebook (so is there someone who could routinely monitor the account)?




Best wishes,

Arne

-- 

Unpolitisch sein

heißt politisch sein

ohne es zu merken

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Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha

[Ian Clarke]

Thanks Dan, will take a look.  Looking forward to being able to see it in its
full rendered form.
 





On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 1:44 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hey Everybody,

  I've been (and am) extremely short on time recently, but I uploaded the

pelican port of the website redesign to

https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website-redesign-pelican




At this moment it's not at parity with the Jekyll version, but I'll be

continuing to work on that. I didn't want to sit on it any longer so here

it is in its current state.




Translation of content is achieved with a plugin markdown_i18n which allows

us to translate pages piecemeal like we've wanted.




After I fix some of the more glaring regressions from the pelican port I'll

upload the generated site as well.




Thanks,

Dan

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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Ian Clarke]

Great Dan!  Could you get it up somewhere to get feedback, and perhaps a Google
Doc or something similar for people to report any issues?
 





On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 9:38 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
wrote:
The front page is working, with a small number of known issues that I think have
solutions for. The content pages (about,  download) need a bit more work. I'll
try to get the current state into github during the week, I expect at least one
more revision after that.
Thanks,Dan
On Jan 3, 2017 8:45 PM, "Dan Roberts" <ademan...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Ian,    I didn't end up with as much time as I'd hoped/expected, but one of
my experiments is promising. I'm working on turning it into a first (pelican)
iteration of the site. I'd like to have it ready Saturday to polish over this
coming weekend.
Thanks,Dan
On Jan 2, 2017 8:19 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
Thanks Dan, were you able to make the progressed you had hoped for?
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 





On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 4:34 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
wrote:
Unfortunately I didn't find much time between work and three different sets of
family, but I believe I can carve out time this weekend. I expect a very low key
new years. I have a prospective solution to my biggest pelican concern that I'm
very happy with, I'll try to update again this weekend.
Thanks,Dan
On Dec 25, 2016 3:24 PM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 





On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we need. I
still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my initial
exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers.
Thanks,Dan
On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died.
Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed?
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 





On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org
wrote:
On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org
wrote:
On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:

> It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a

> requirement.




I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!);




I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically
relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in
downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project.  This is a commonly
used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. 
https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it.
"Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be
migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim
measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL.  Of course we will
provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable.
The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.  My inclination is to get the
new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier
with a simplified website).  I think with a website that looks really good it
will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it.
From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited
number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited
that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an
automatic roll-out of the improved site.
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Ian Clarke]

Thanks Dan, were you able to make the progressed you had hoped for?
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 





On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 4:34 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
wrote:
Unfortunately I didn't find much time between work and three different sets of
family, but I believe I can carve out time this weekend. I expect a very low key
new years. I have a prospective solution to my biggest pelican concern that I'm
very happy with, I'll try to update again this weekend.
Thanks,Dan
On Dec 25, 2016 3:24 PM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 





On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we need. I
still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my initial
exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers.
Thanks,Dan
On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died.
Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed?
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 





On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org
wrote:
On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org
wrote:
On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:

> It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a

> requirement.




I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!);




I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically
relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in
downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project.  This is a commonly
used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. 
https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it.
"Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be
migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim
measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL.  Of course we will
provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable.
The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.  My inclination is to get the
new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier
with a simplified website).  I think with a website that looks really good it
will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it.
From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited
number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited
that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an
automatic roll-out of the improved site.
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?

[Ian Clarke]

Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 





On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we need. I
still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my initial
exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers.
Thanks,Dan
On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke" <i...@freenetproject.org> wrote:
Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died.
Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed?
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 





On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org
wrote:
On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org
wrote:
On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote:

> It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a

> requirement.




I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!);




I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically
relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in
downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project.  This is a commonly
used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. 
https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it.
"Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be
migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim
measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL.  Of course we will
provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable.
The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.  My inclination is to get the
new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier
with a simplified website).  I think with a website that looks really good it
will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it.
From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited
number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited
that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an
automatic roll-out of the improved site.
Ian.
Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org

 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
 

Ian Clarke
Founder, The Freenet Project
Email: i...@freenetproject.org
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