In response to the many great observations that Yury Frolov made, I
immediately recognize many of those same dynamics and challenges.
There are indeed circumstances and situations that are better suited
for RED approaches, and you outlined them nicely. I and my network
and colleagues have
Dear Netflix Staffing Operations Team,
I can see that you are in need of a good interaction designer/IA - there
seems to be a disconnect between the corporate understanding of site and
mailing list, although granted there is no doubt an archive site where
this message will eventually reside.
I have been following the RED thread with great interest and
pleasure, deciding not to step in this time -- but now I have to.
Regardless, on any given day, or any given project, a vastly
experienced
designer can be wrong a hundred times and an inexperienced designer
can be
right a
Again, thank you for contributing to this topic.
My kickoff went really well and I was able to convince the brain
behind the project. (An engineer)
User tests will be conducted and I might be able to do them much
earlier than planned. (These people have already created much of the
HW/SF products
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Nik Lazell
nik.laz...@realadventure.co.ukwrote:
Hi all,
Does anyone have any experience of using Selenium for testing
(http://seleniumhq.org/)? I have been asked to research it's potential
for UX testing. I have used it briefly as a developer, but it seems
Hi Nik
Your question sounds interesting, but it's hard to make out exactly what
you're asking.
The idea of having a piece of software that can test UX / usability by
pushing a button - this is a wonderful idea, but a complete fantasy. User
experience can only be understood by observing the
Michael Micheletti makes some astoundingly insightful points above.
All very good and effective advice for the situation being discussed
here.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37605
Hi Harry,
Thanks for your reply.
I was really just trying to establish whether anyone had found a use for
Selenium within a user-experience field.
As you said, it does look entirely inappropriate, far more relevant for
testing errors in the functionality than any aspect of usability.
We use Selenium for Functionality Testing, and have tried it for Usability
work. The main way that we have tried to use for Usability is to record and
playback user interactions with a site. The challenge is often the script
needs some editing. So I don't think it is ready out of the box.
I have
On Jan 27, 2009, at 11:05 PM, Dave Malouf wrote:
hmm? I think I'm still a believer in rigorous methods for making up
for the
unpredictability of talent and judgment.
Actually, Robert's point about experienced and inexperienced designers
goes hand in hand with yours. Using great methods
So, is the emphasis here on the Rapid or on the Expert part?
Is it a RAPID Expert Designer or a Rapid EXPERT Designer? Is it rapid
design done by an expert, or quickly producing what could be defined
as an amazing expert design?
I guess I'm asking if Expert is being used as noun or
That is exactly how I read it. RED = RGD = really good designer
On Jan 27, 2009, at 10:57 PM, Robert Hoekman Jr wrote:
Are we sure that RED isn't just a fancy term for talent? ;)
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association
Here's a list of postings related to sound in product design - scroll
to the bottom for basic information on acoustics and sound -
http://tinyurl.com/c2r65g
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=37669
Great quote... where/who is that from?
On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:46 AM, Jared Spool wrote:
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad
judgments.
Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
To post to
I completely agree. The conversations that spawned this were all
about methods, perspectives, tools, and how a designer approaches a
problem. RED does not seem to fit in any of those buckets. It is most
certainly an admirable level to aspire to, but I am not sure it does
much for aspiring
I hope you don't mind Jonas, but I thought your framing of experience
was a worthy topic all on its own...
The notion of experience and domain expertise is something that
hiring managers are almost always interested in. It leverages years
of work and countless failures without enduring the
Selenium really helps me in my work -- it eliminates a lot of the
tedium that gets in the way of usability testing. For example, I can
write a script that will register a new account, login, and navigate
to a particular section. This is very helpful when our applications
are being redeployed
Jeffery Callender and I collaborated on this article...
http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000228.php
...and on a collection of icons and images...
http://flickr.com/photos/morville/sets/72157612907604234/
...and we'd love feedback and suggestions. Thanks!
Peter Morville
Jon and Andrew have made some very good points - I can see my comment about
Selenium being entirely inappropriate was a sweeping generalisation.
So - while a tool like Selenium would never be appropriate as your one stop
shop for UX research, it clearly can be useful in certain situations, as
[Jared wrote: I have yet to meet anyone on the development or
engineering side of the operation who doesn't understand that a
usable design is better. However, not all designs need to be usable
to be successful, and since making something usable is often an added
expense, it's hard to justify.]
Jim, I'm not so much dismissing as begging for more. I haven't seen
enough in your explanation or others to take RED as anything other
than hubris, so here is what I'm missing: A framework. A
deconstruction of methods and practice. a codification that can be
compared and contrasted to other
doesn't research tend to show that, regardless of inborn aptitude, that
talent tends to correspond with incredible commitment to practice and
experience? (Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours concept, etc.).
-xian-
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Jared Spool jsp...@uie.com wrote:
On Jan 27, 2009,
Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgments.
But some people can attain great judgment through just a little experience,
while others can have a ton of experience and never attain great judgment.
Ooh! Gotta run—someone needs my help transferring $2.5 million from
For the record, I was being serious and not flippant. I meant no
disrespect to Jim or to his presentation of RED. I know how these
posts can sometimes be seen as charged and misinterpreted.
When I read Jim's description (which I have done several times), I
think of nearly every great
I'm in extremely strong disagreement with Jarod in a number of things
he states. I disagree with his statement that one does not know where
a RED design will end until after it's finished.
This is flatly untrue. It's a matter of experience. One has to
have confidence of where a design
I'm thinking about promoting a new methodology called R.A.D. (stands for
Really Awesome Design).
(i kid, jleft, i kid!)
-x-
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 4:51 AM, mark schraad mschr...@gmail.com wrote:
That is exactly how I read it. RED = RGD = really good designer
--
Christian Crumlish
I'm
Nobody who wins the 100m at the Olympics does it on their first race.
They've spent years practicing and preparing.
Similarly, most people who practice running every day will never
qualify for the Olympics.
To be top of your game, you've got to have a combination of talent,
experience,
Sushil,
I would use cityname.foundation.org cause I think it's easier to
remember when you come back to website several times.
--
Maxim Soloviev
Director of Product Development
www.nakea.net
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Sushil snachn...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a question along similar
On Jan 27, 2009, at 11:22 PM, Jim Leftwich wrote:
I'm in extremely strong disagreement with Jarod in a number of things
he states.
I'm assuming you're talking about me (JarEd). There's another JarOd on
this list, who often has interesting things to say, but he hasn't
participated in this
To those, including Dave, clamoring for an in-depth presentation of
the structured approach (or as I'd put it, patterned approach) used
by designers doing work in this manner, I would first respond that
these do exist. Over many projects, and particularly documented
projects, there are a number
This looks like a really great conference in Denver on Feb 2.
https://secure.webdirections.org/wdn09/aff/WDN09MC
I hope to go!
Are there any other good webby or general IxD get togethers in the area?
Mike Caskey
Jared Spool wrote:
On Jan 27, 2009, at 11:22 PM, Jim Leftwich wrote:
I'm
Well, I'm not thinking of the interface, what I'm trying to do is to
find a way to look at sound from a design perspective, as a non-
musician and non-sound expert, I find extremely complicated to look
at sound, and think of it as a useful medium in design, even though
in some cases sound
So, if I said music theory tells me that major chords induce a happy state
and minor chords the opposite. Are you saying that is not a must know in
progressive menu system? I agree with you though. Someone does not have to
know it has been labeled and studied with these traits to convey their
Thanks Jared (and yes I got the spelling wrong in my post).
I understand and concur with the matrix you've presented, and where
the greatest risk lies.
That's essentially why I point out the importance of gaining RED
experience (when a designer is inexperienced) by working closely with
more
In *Sources of Power: How People Make Decisions*, Gary Klein offers a case
study about a baby who almost died in a neonatal intensive care unit. There
were two nurses on duty: a shift leader with years of experience (I'll call
her Mary), and a trainee (Jill). One night while they were both on
I'm speaking at this conference and teaching a workshop there. The Web
Directions conferences are always great, especially for combination
designer-developers. Use my speaker code WDN09DSa and get $50 off!
Dan
Dan Saffer
Principal, Kicker Studio
http://www.kickerstudio.com
Gloria asks the question, How does a person measure the depth of
their experience, and market it appropriately.
I would say that for RED practitioners this is almost always measured
in terms of past experience and outcomes.
Has the designer/team worked in this domain/specific situation
before?
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Mike Caskey m...@casadev.com wrote:
This looks like a really great conference in Denver on Feb 2.
https://secure.webdirections.org/wdn09/aff/WDN09MC
I hope to go!
Are there any other good webby or general IxD get togethers in the area?
Mike Caskey
Mike,
Todd Zaki Warfel: So, is the emphasis here on the Rapid or on the
Expert part?
And frankly, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
Good question:) ... I think In the course of the RED project the
emphasis changes constantly between Rapid, Expert and even
Design :)
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Mike Caskey m...@casadev.com wrote:
Are there any other good webby or general IxD get togethers in the area?
Refresh Denver[1] is a good bet. They are also holding a get
together[2] for the Web Directions folks and locals.
There is also a local IxD group but
On Jan 28, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Yury Frolov|Studio Asterisk* wrote:
It seems like one aspect is missing in this discussion. I'd argue
that typical RED project involves a small TEAM of experts who
address various aspects of design challenge and may include a lead
designer, researcher,
Mark Schraad states: The practice of assuming that you, as the
designer, know enough to move forward without the important touch
points that research can bring is arrogant and unprofessional.
Well, it certainly is as you've framed it here. However, most
experienced designers aren't approaching
Jared Spool states: Once the team starts to get multiple experts,
they naturally will not agree on important decisions.
That certainly doesn't match the experiences I've observed, in both
cases of multiple interaction experts or in cases where there was one
or more interaction design experts and
On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Jared Spool wrote:
I'm not sure that's true. In the studies we've done of folks
employing Genius Design (still stickin' with the label!), it's almost
always been solo designers.
-
Jared, I don't think we disagree. Many cooks in one kitchen - not
I'm curious what everyone has to say about last night event at Bloomberg
with Andrew DeVigal. Was everyone aware of this stories on the The New
York Times?
Do you think newspapers readers understand how and what to click in
order to view and comprehend the stories as they are told?
I told
Ali wrote:
As a User Centered Design graduate I find it quite irritating to
be working in an environment where engineers run everything.
My position does not allow me to say much yet as a Tech Writer/Project
Manager assisting the engineers on usability issues I have had it!
All the
Hey Leonardo,Do read it, it is very good. It is only one page; but,
everything on that one page is right on.
I could ramble on for days about how I would use sound in exactly the manner
you described.
I will give you this. It should be a subtle embellishment that complements
the design.
I wish
The term genius is so problematically loaded, that it will never
function to effectively describe what is occurring in the situations
it purports to label.
It is, rather, a sort of throw up one's hands effort at slapping
a label on a complex reality. It also carries a high propensity to be
My summary of this thread, so far:
JarEd wants to know Jim's answer to the client's question:
what are you going to do for me, and how?
Jim's short answer: Trust me, I'm experienced!
Jim's medium-length answer: My team and I will listen, leaf through existing
documentation, do some minimal
On Jan 28, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Jim Leftwich wrote:
The term genius is [...] a sort of throw up one's hands effort
at slapping
a label on a complex reality.
Or maybe, just maybe, the term R.E.D. is an attempt to add
complexity to something that is inherently simple.
Just sayin'.
Jared
Jim's medium-length answer: My team and I will listen, leaf through
existing documentation, do some minimal research, (paper)prototype, discuss
documents, and document for implementation. We've done that before, and it
worked then so it will work for you too.
My guess is that most clients
Peter Boersma puts forward another caricatured oversimplification of
what actually occurs. It's difficult to respond to it without being
drawn into unproductive and uninteresting argumentation, so I'll just
let his comment stand for what it is.
None of the projects of which I'm familiar with
On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Jared Spool wrote:
Once the team starts to get multiple experts, they naturally will
not agree on important decisions. At that point, they'll require new
research to resolve conflicts and further inform the design
decisions. This moves them into a different
On Jan 28, 2009, at 2:55 PM, Jim Leftwich wrote:
Peter Boersma puts forward another caricatured oversimplification of
what actually occurs. It's difficult to respond to it without being
drawn into unproductive and uninteresting argumentation, so I'll just
let his comment stand for what it is.
I think Robert Hoekman's observation is generally correct. Many
situations where RED is useful, if not necessary in order to produce
the most thorough, integrated, and successful solution in the
shortest period of time or also possibly under additional
constraints, result in clients who are
I think this is a very potent introduction and reminder of what user
experience people do.
I think it's also useful as a rough sketch and not as a formal
framework, since there's usually not a one-size fits all approach.
It's on my list of important bookmarks.
Good job!
Jared Spool states: In my opinion, Jim, the reason why you're
seeing these caricatured oversimplifications is that we're all
struggling here trying to understand the essence of what you're
talking about.
Well, I would say that any understanding and desire for dialog must
start first with some
I feel an opportunity for a 'lunch and discuss' in Vancouver, don't you?
It's unrealistic to expect that all of that vast set of issues be
laid out here for easy digestion in just a few days. In a text forum
no less!
Welcome
On Jan 28, 2009, at 6:24 AM, Peter Morville wrote:
Jeffery Callender and I collaborated on this article...
http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000228.php
...and on a collection of icons and images...
http://flickr.com/photos/morville/sets/72157612907604234/
...and we'd love
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Andrei Herasimchuk
aherasimc...@involutionstudios.com wrote:
On Jan 28, 2009, at 6:24 AM, Peter Morville wrote:
Jeffery Callender and I collaborated on this article...
http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000228.php
...and on a collection of
You've still done pretty much everything but actually define R.E.D. If you
can't explain what it is (instead of what it is not) in a clear manner, it's
going to be very difficult to get anyone else to understand it, hence all
the confusion in this thread.
My goal, which I stated earlier, is not
http://semanticstudios.com/publications/semantics/000228.php
For clarification's sake, are you simply presenting these as deliverables
you've seen, or are you advocating their use?
-r-
Welcome to the Interaction Design
Thanks for the positive feedback, the constructive criticism, and the
questions. The map is intended as a tool to help folks (myself included)
think about the mix of deliverables they might use in any given project.
It's not intended to be comprehensive (or prescriptive) but rather to
reflect the
Robert Hoekman states: Boy, are you in the wrong place. On this
list, one cannot have a dialog without the inclusion of naysayers and
skeptics. : )
I think this dynamic is familiar to anyone that's participated in
online forums over the past two decades. My approach is not to
engage with
On Jan 28, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Jared Spool wrote:
Yet, there's still confusion over how this is more than just really-
smart-and-experience-people-doing-good-work. You, yourself, said it
isn't as much a method as it is a philosophy or approach. Other
than a label you've put on your own
I see the pixel-perfect design comps as serving one of two purposes:
i) As a conceptual exploration of the visual design. That is, a stage of
visual design iteration; and
ii) As a final pre-production stage in the overall process.
So in one sense I'd happily include these into the broader
On Jan 28, 2009, at 7:08 PM, Sebi Tauciuc wrote:
Depends on what you mean by deliverable. I would see pen, paper
sketching as tools, not deliverables. Of course, you can still show
sketches to people, but just to ask questions and promote
discussion, not as a final result.
Guiding
On Jan 28, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Sebi Tauciuc wrote:
Depends on what you mean by deliverable. I would see pen, paper
sketching
as tools, not deliverables. Of course, you can still show sketches to
people, but just to ask questions and promote discussion, not as a
final
result.
As a design
Despite repeated mention of examples and/or documentation about this
magical unicorn of a. . . thing/process/ideology/methodoolgy, Mr.
Leftwich has yet to provide a link to any of it. My kingdom for
useful examples, sir!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted
On Jan 28, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Peter Morville wrote:
I lumped pixel-perfect mockups or design comps under the broader
category of
concept designs, but I recognize that's a (big) stretch. That leads
me to a
question: what is a good broader category that could include design
comps
AND their
To address Gabby's question, a very small web-sized selection of bits
of my own projects can be found at my site:
http://www.orbitnet.com/
And though it's from 2005, a slideshow and accompanying set of
slides giving very high-level overviews of a selection of projects
can be found at:
Text:
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Peter Morville
morvi...@semanticstudios.com wrote:
what is a good broader category that could include design comps
AND their equivalents in domains beyond web/print design (e.g., physical
buildings and spaces and products)?
prototypes?
-x-
--
Christian
All design professions -- from fashion to industrial to architecture to
graphic -- have some functional equivalent of a blueprint.
Yes, this is fotal important, especially for demo design ideas to
stakeholders as well as communicate with the engineering team. it
sketches the affordable
@Dave and others asking for deeper analysis etc, a lot of this is
reminding me of some things I read for my PhD last year, particularly
around work integrated learning (WIL) particularly in the health
(nursing for example) and education sectors
...and Donald Schön's stuff around how reflective
oh - and I'll dig out the WIL etc refs and post too. it'll take me a
few days though :
43C/110F here all week and there's s much to get through before
flying to YVR in .. 5 days.. omg!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Posted from the new ixda.org
Recently in my Interactive product design class here at SCAD I engaged
with my students in an exercise to deconstruct Jesse James Garrett's
Elements of User Experience (the diagram, not the book). What was
interesting was the formation of a process that had a new beginning
that I have not seen
On Jan 28, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Andrew Boyd wrote:
I'm not sure where you pulled these absolutes from, and I'm not sure
that I care - as someone who has used pixel-perfect mockups in
conceptual design on multiple occasions to good effect I can say
that you are not making a lot of sense to me
Rather than spending so much time dissecting the nature of discussions on
this list, your efforts would be
better served by putting on the old marketing hat and crafting a
definition of RED that might be used as a doorway into what you consider a
more productive conversation.
Cheers to
I've been creating complete implementable specs (along with
implementable resources) for software of many types since the 1980s.
Many projects exist at increasingly higher and higher fidelity
thumbnails until complete pixel-perfect (or whatever format the
deliverable will be in) specs are
I've been asked numerous times to recommend conferences and workshops to
designers
and usability professionals.
I've decided to create a matrix to categorize the various events on two axis
-
1) practical to theoretical
2) non-visual to visual
If you have 5min, please take the following survey
To clarify my own post:
On Jan 28, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Andrei Herasimchuk wrote:
It's not a big stretch. It's apples and oranges. Concept design and
pixel-perfect screen mockups simply cannot be clumped together.
Add to the end: ...cannot be clumped together to be used for the exact
same
Try here, in Vancouver:
http://www.gnwc.ca/
On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:51 PM, Eric Reiss wrote:
Friends,
FatDUX will be awarding one free registration to a worthy design
student
(at an accredited school) to Interaction 09 in Vancouver. No food,
lodging, or travel, just the registration.
There
On Jan 28, 2009, at 6:52 PM, Jim Leftwich wrote:
1) Initial information gathering, stakeholder interviews and
discussions, and review and analysis of existing bodies of
information and solutions/products/systems/services. In RED, however,
this is done very rapidly, and filtered through what's
I don't think how I and my partners design is anything at all like
whatever the design that's been done (as you characterize broadly)
in technology design for the past 30 years.
I doubt that all of those teams, including the unsuccessful ones you
mentioned, approached things from very diverse
This is the RED http://www.red.com/cameras/ you should be talking about!
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Jim Leftwich jl...@orbitnet.com wrote:
I don't think how I and my partners design is anything at all like
whatever the design that's been done (as you characterize broadly)
in technology
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