Has anyone on this list ever had an authority ask to see a DoC or TCF after
the product was placed on the market? We have had two products audit tested,
but no one has ever asked for these documents.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
EN 300220-1 contains the test requirements, but its reference is not
published in the OJ. EN 300220-3 is published in the OJ and lists the
sections of EN300220-1 that apply in order to comply with the essential
requirements concerning article 3.2 of the RTTE Directive. As you noted, it
lists
See CEPT Recommendation 70-03 which can be found at
http://www.ero.dk/
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Hans Mellberg [mailto:emcconsult...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 4:46 PM
To: emc-pstc
Subject: Can 2.4GHz wireless
When are testing a FCC Part 15 intentional radiator operating below 30 MHz,
and have encountered the situation where the emissions from the antenna is
being received by the power cord and causing the system to fail conducted
limits. The transmitter complies with the conducted limits with a dummy
David, my suggestion is to determine which is the worst case EMC environment
- the applicable standards or the actual environment - and design for that.
We had a similar problem with a particular CCTV installation. The CCTV rf
immunity standard specifies 10 V/m; however, the guard watching the
I had a very good source of pdf ENs at the Swedish Standards Institute
(SIS), then the Swedes had to go and change their web site.
http://www.sisforlag.se/
This site use to be in English and it was clear that certain ENs were also
in English. All they did was attach a national cover page onto
I have found a very limited number of e-field probes with optical ports that
are suitable for calibrating a radiated immunity chamber. They are:
* Holaday probe with optical port sold by ETS-Lingren and Amplifier
Research
* Wandel Goltermann probe with Narda optical interface, both
Wimpie Lyons at SABS was able to advise me of the safety and EMC
requirements. Try him.
lyon...@mail.sabs.co.za
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Kim Boll Jensen [mailto:kimb...@post7.tele.dk]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:39 PM
Please disregardagain. Sigh. Where is my coffee?
-Original Message-
From: WOODS, RICHARD
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:02 AM
To: 'emc-pstc'
Subject: Compliance Engineering Status Report
File: deliverables.docFile: Test sched master.xls
deliverables.doc Test sched master.xls
deliverables.doc
Description: MS-Word document
Test sched master.xls
Description: application/excel
I need to make a decision on an amplifier for radiated immunity testing in
the 1-2 GHz range. The choices appear to be a new solid state amplifier ( I
have not located a used one) or a used TWT amp. Is anyone using a TWT
amplifier for radiated immunity testing above 1 GHz? Do I need to be
I am seeking sources for an E-field probe for radiated immunity testing
other than Holaday and Amplifier Research. Any suggestions?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
I am seeking to purchase (used) one of the following signal generators.
Please contact me if you have one available in the USA.
Agilent/HP 8648B with option 1E6
IFR/Marconi 2023B
IFR/Marconi 2024
Rhode Schwarz SML02 with option SML-B3
Similar with frequency up to 2 GHz, 400 Hz and 1 kHz
Company A builds a device for company B which sells the device in the EU
under their own brand name. The device is subject to a Declaration of
Conformity, and both companies are located within the EU. Must both
companies issue a Declaration?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco
Is EN60742, Isolating Transformers, identical to IEC60742 or does it contain
deviations?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
I would like to hear from anyone who has obtained Russian certification for
short range (low power) radio devices. How did you do it?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
We have the same frequent burn out problem and we also have attributed it to
the filters. We just keep replacing them. Has anyone tried the rugged bulbs
marketed for use with garage door openers or ceiling fans or have tried the
extended life bulbs? Do they last longer in chamber use to justify
This is a good example of an inarticulate clause in a standard. One sentence
in clause 7.5 reads Normally, the maximum length of the specified shielded
cable shall be used. But the following sentence reads With respect to the
frequency spectrum of the surge 20 m length of the specified shielded
I have a dual band transmitter that I must test per FCC Part 15. The device
operates simultaneously at 13.56 MHz and 915 MHz and there is one external
antenna for each band; however the output is time muxed such that
transmission occurs on only one band at any given time. In order to minimize
the
Scott, you do not have to test for power line harmonics or flicker if 1)
your product is not mains powered, and 2) you have no intention of selling
it along with a particular power source, and 3) you do not specify that it
be used with a particular power source. If the choice of power source is
OK, I'll get more specific. I have an external interconnecting cable that
contains hazardous voltages. Because of the application, in the USA I must
use UL Listed CL3P cable which is rated for use in risers and air handling
spaces (smoke requirements of the National Electrical Code). The
Oops! I need more coffee. Please disregard and delete.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: WOODS, RICHARD
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 9:16 AM
To: 'emc-pstc'
Subject: Compliance Engineering Status Report
Test sched master.xls deliverables.doc
Test sched master.xls
Description: application/excel
deliverables.doc
Description: MS-Word document
I received the following information from a US organization.
Harmonics testing has been added as part of the conversion from CCIB and
CCEE to the new CCC mark. IEC 61000-3-2 (Limits for Harmonic Current
Emissions) is similar in content to GB 17625.1.
Is this true?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic
For a manufacturer located in the USA, and for equipment that has
certifications from UL and TUV Rheinland, what is the recommended method
(i.e., least time, effort and money) to obtain GOST certification?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
Consider the insulation construction for an external interconecting cable
connected to secondary hazardous circuits of ITE (EN60950). Is it
permissible for the reinforced insulation to be constructed of two layers
(e.g., conductor insulation plus external jacket) if the total thickness is
at
You can find the EU allocations at http://www.ero.dk/
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: scott@jci.com [mailto:scott@jci.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:53 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Frequency Allocations
Where can the latest versions be found? The WEE site seems to have older
versions.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Neil Helsby [mailto:nei...@solid-state-logic.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 3:17 AM
To:
Most of the CENELEC immunity standards specify performance criteria A as
follows:
The equipment shall continue to operate as intended without operator
intervention. No degradation of performance or loss of function is allowed
below a performance level specified by the manufacturer when the
Good question Amund. I found nothing in the Directive that provides a clear
direction. I think that sound of silence from the rest of the group means
that no one knows the answer. I checked the UK's notification form and there
is only one place where they ask about the receiver:
Duplex direction
I sure would love to hear that argument.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Warren Birmingham [mailto:war...@comfortjets.com]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 6:06 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: LED's and laser safety?
Gary, I was
George, the product has to comply with the standards. In this particular
case, the product consists of two parts that operate together, and must
therefore be tested as a system. All of the power line tests apply when the
when the complete system is powered and operating.
Richard Woods
Gary, I have to be concerned about LEDs also and have found that I need to
consult EN 60825-1 in order to determine the design and documentation
requirements for Class II LEDs. Our EU safety agency requires that we
demonstrate compliance even with Class 1 devices. For the lower emission
LEDs,
Well that process doesn't seem to work that well either. I have a mouse and
keyboard that both have a UL Recognition mark. The mouse has a GS mark and
the keyboard has a Bauart mark. Of course, the reason the keyboard has the
Bauart mark rather than the GS mark is that it does not comply with the
What is a good source that explains the rational for the values for creepage
distances?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
Unfortunately, parameters contained in harmonized specifications do not
indicate that the frequency band is harmonized. For that, you will have to
check out CEPT recommendations and decisions and then determine if the
target countries have adopted them. Sigh, one would wish for an easier
process.
What types of chamber effects, if any, should one consider when
determining the extra factor to be applied to determine the forward power
applied to the transmit antenna. Potential effects might include loading of
the antenna by the anechoic materials or the chamber itself and resonance's.
If
Be careful. First a safety agency has be accredited by the Standards Council
of Canada (I think that's the name). However, their accreditation must now
be accepted by each of the provinces who actually have legal jurisdiction
over electrical installations. When UL first claimed accreditation,
Greg, OSHA regulations allow for an alternataive to Listing. The owner of
the equipment may create a construction file describing how safety is
accomplished and have the file available for OSHA review.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From:
Here is a very good discussion of the leagalities.
http://www.conformity.com/A02F18.pdf
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 12:40 PM
To:
Some states (e.g., North Carolina), counties (e.g., Orange, CA) and cities
(e.g., Los Angeles and San Francisco)have a legal requirement that all
electrical products for sale must be Listed. Some local electrical codes
(e.g., Oregon) require electrical equipment be Listed. Since my company
sells
No.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:22 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: EMC immunity requirements in Canada?
As far as I
Using the antenna factor of a particular antenna, one can compute the
theoretical power required to create a specified E-field at a specified
distance. Without over specifying the power amplifier (assume Class A), what
minimum safety factor should be added to the theoretical values to account
for
Thanks for that update. I forgot to mention that the agency said that EN
27779 (ISO 7779) is the appropriate measurement standard.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Luttrell, Lyle [mailto:lluttr...@peakstor.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September
Let's think about this for a moment. The output power from a limited power
source is limited such that there is insufficient energy to start a fire.
However, the purpose of a a cigarette lighter is to start a fire. No, it is
not a limited power source. Can you make it one? Yes, by placing the
According to a well known German safety agency, there are no normative EU or
German national acoustic limits for ITE. The 3rd GS Ordinance on product
safety includes the requirements of the LVD and Machinery Directive, but the
requirement for acoustic noise is understood to apply only to
Perhaps he needs a sign based upon one found in a MIT lab:
Do not stare into beam with remaining eye
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Gonzalez, Kenneth P (Rocky) [mailto:kpgon...@ingr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 3:20 PM
To:
We thought about buying used chamber rather than moving ours. However, we
found the cost of a used chamber including the installation cost was such
that we would have rather bought a new one.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Pettit,
Jeff, we moved our chamber several times and had someone different do it
each time based upon lowest quote. Some of your panels could be accidentally
damaged during the move. We had some panels starting to separate due to
moisture. Most were salvageable, however. Also, we found some corroded
Are there any EU or national (e.g. GS) normative requirements to comply with
any of the following standards or any other acoustic standards for ITE?
EN27779 Acoustic measurement of airborn noise emitted by computer and
business equipment.
EN29295 Acoustic measurement of high frequency noise
What model signal generator, amplifier and antenna you are using to immunity
test at 3V/m between 1-2 GHz. Are you testing at 3m?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
This question is addressed to those testing visual LED emissions to EN
60825-1. What test equipment are you using to measure the apparent source
size? Given that LEDs are about 5 mm in diameter, LED fiber optic
transmitters are about 2 mm in diameter and plastic fiber optic cable is
about 1 mm in
Certainly someone out there has devised a simple, lost cost method of
extending the operating frequency of their signal generator by using some
type of harmonic generating device such as a mixer or step recovery diode
and filters. In one application, I need to extend a 1 GHz generator to 2 GHz
Here is the link
http://www.conformity.com/0208izzy.pdf
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: John Barnes [mailto:jrbar...@iglou.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:17 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: FCC Testing of
Consider a 1W frequency hopping, spread spectrum transmitter operating at
2.45 GHz. The FCC released a Public Notice on acceptable test methods
(Filing and Measurement Guidelines for Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum
Systems) where they recommend that the spurious radiated emissions in the
Chris, the CE marking indicates that the product complies with all
applicable directives. The only two directives that might apply is the LV
and EMC directives. However, the LVD does not apply since the working
voltages are low. The EMC directive would apply if your equipment is likely
to cause
On the whole, of course safety is involved; but that is not the question at
hand. What I am trying to get at is that a particular requirement/test may
not be safety related in a particular application. That occurs from time to
time in ITE testing, so is there any reason why the same investigative
Is JIS C 6861, mechanical standard for plastic fiber optic cable, the same
as IEC 6079-2?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
EN 60825-1 is a normative reference in Annex ZA of EN 60950.
Clause 1.1 of EN 60825-1 says:
When a laser system forms part of equipment which is subject to another IEC
product safety standard . . . this part 1 will apply in accordance with the
provisions of IEC Guide 104, for hazards resulting
The proposed WEEE Directive bans certain flame retardants.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/environment/index_home/waste_management
/waste_management.htm#WEEE Directive
You will have to paste that link back together if it line wrapped.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco
John you are correct and your friend is not. You can find the Commission's
explaination at the following site.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/electr_equipment/emc/guides/emcguide.ht
m
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: John Juhasz
My opinion is based upon an assumption - the product is intended to be
operated from a mains connected power source. I would test it with the power
sources that would optionally be provided with the product and test the
system at 120V and 230V.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco
We are developing a hand operated mechanical device. I am looking for
regulations or guidelines which manufacturers must comply with to show due
diligence with designs in avoiding repetitive stress related issues.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
George, the ITE safety standards require that the plug be rated for at least
125% of the equipment rating. I believe that the US National Electrical Code
has the same requirement.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: George Stults
Compliance is legally required ofr ICES-003. You will find that the
requirements are the same as FCC part 15 except for user information and
equipment marking. You can download the standards at
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/sf01751e.html
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
Can someone tell me where I can find translations of the following,
especially German.
Caution - Class 2 laser radiation when open. Do not stare into beam.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC
Consider a Class 1 Laser Product. Once the protective cover is removed for
service, it is physically possible for the 12 mm probe to be inserted into
the beam where Class 2 levels are present; therefore, human exposure of a
finger is possible. However, it is not physically possible to directly
Can someone suggest sources of test equipment for measuring Class 1 to Class
2 LED emissions to EN60825-1 and fiber optic cable emissions to EN60825-2?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society
Frequency spectrum management is the reponsibility of each member state;
however, CEPT does issue recommendations and decisions that may or may not
be adopted by those states. Check out those recommendations and decisions at
the CEPT site.
http://www.ero.dk/
Richard Woods
Sensormatic
We plan to purchase for resale an LED fiber optic transmitter, receiver and
cable that will provide a communications link to our products. While we will
resell these devices as optional accesssories for our products, the
accessories will retain the original manufacturer's brandname. We will
For more information contact
Standards and Specifications
Pakistan Telecommunications Authority
Headquarters, Room 116
Sector F-5/1
Islamabad
Tel: + 92 51 287 130
Fax: + 92 51 287 120
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From:
Check the AAMI site for possible US standards.
http://www.aami.org/
Devices are tested to FDA requirements by Georgia Tech Research Institute.
Contact Jimmy Woody for info.
http://www.gtri.gatech.edu/
A1:1995 of EN 50061:1988 covers immunity of implantable pacemakers.
PrEN 45502-2-1 is a new
We need to embed secondary wiring (50V) into a narrow trench cut into a
concrete floor located at ground level. The installation has to be compliant
with the electrical code used in the EU. It has been suggested that we use
flexible conduit such as the one listed at the this link.
07/15/02 11:45 AM
Please respond to
richwoods
A couple of months ago, I asked the group if I should be using EN60650-1.
The answer was no, until and unless the particular part was published that
covered my product. In other words, the new edition
A couple of months ago, I asked the group if I should be using EN60650-1.
The answer was no, until and unless the particular part was published that
covered my product. In other words, the new edition is incomplete and
subsequent parts will need to be published before it can be used instead of
Sweden has downloadable CENELEC standards in English.
http://www.sisforlag.se/katalog/eng_default.asp
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: John Barnes [mailto:jrbar...@iglou.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:06 PM
To:
We have noticed a change in our OATS characteristics depending upon the
dampness of the area. It is especially noticeable this time of year when we
get a lot of rain in Florida. Does anyone else experience this phenomena?
More to your question Mat, the major contributors to the measurement
We receive the invoices too.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 4:31 AM
To: Forum Safety-emc
Subject: RTTE EU notifications - fees
Hi all,
We have
I want to upgrade my 1MB/sec home network that uses my phone line. I have
several choices, but would like to hear from others before I make the leap.
1) I understand that 10MB/sec Ethernet will operate on Cat 3 twisted pair
and that normal phone wiring is Cat 3. If use my existing phone wiring
Nevermind. I found the answer to be cubic meters.
-Original Message-
From: WOODS, RICHARD
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 8:28 AM
To: 'emc-pstc'
Subject: SI Unit for volume
When stating a cubic volume in SI units, is liters the correct unit. If
not, what is the
When stating a cubic volume in SI units, is liters the correct unit. If not,
what is the correct method of expression?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical
I understand that Mexico uses a 220V Wye distribution system such that the
single phase voltage is 127V. What low line and high line voltages should
one consider as being normal where equipment should continue to operate as
intended? I ask this because I doubt that 127V is really the nominal
John, the ENs that you will use will depend upon the intended application.
For emissions, EN 55022 applies for ITE applications, EN55103-1 for
professional use and there may be other standards for other applications
such as instrumentation and process control. There are at least two immunity
Humidity is not the only variable, and may not be your major variable.
Repeatability of ESD results is a statistical problem. Consider the
variables:
-humidity
-approach speed (for non-contact discharge)
-angle of the probe (for non-contact discharge)
-synchronization of the ESD application with
Ken, a UK court ruled that CE+CE does not equal CE. They fined at least one
PC reseller because they integrated and sold PCs based upon the belief that
CE+CE=CE. Obviously, the court thought otherwise.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From:
I am seeking a forensic lab that can analyze the probable cause of a fire in
electrical equipment. The lab must be located in the USA and preferably
located in the East or Central part of the country. Any referrals would be
appreciated.
Richard Woods
Manager Compliance Engineering
Sensormatic
I am seeking a consultant who can advise us on national spectrum allocation
and power limits in various countries for a particular type of short range
device. The major Pacific rim countries are of particular interest. I would
appreciate any referrals the group may offer.
Richard Woods
Manager
That information is from an application document found on the Dow Key web
site. I can't say that I fully understand it myself.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002
Here is what I have learned about switches this week. There are very low
power rated switches for usual ATE applications, power switches (circa 200W)
and high power switches. For power switches, the insertion loss is in the
order of 0.2 db over a very wide frequency range (DC to many GHz). The
I am adding a RF device into my transmission path, and the device has a VSWR
of 1.2 and an insertion loss of 0.2. Will I end up with a total loss of 0.6
dB due to a loss of 0.4 dB due to the VSWR plus the 0.2 dB insertion loss?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
Other than Adilent, what are some other sources for low power (1W) and high
power (100W) coaxial switches for frequencies up to 2 GHz?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Switzerland has adopted the RTTE Directive. In doing so, any CENELEC
exposure standards that address your products would be applicable for the
general public. Those standards are based upon the Council Recommendation
which in turn is based upon ICNIRP 1998 guidelines for exposure of the
general
I am seeking sources for a 150W directional coupler for the frequency range
80-2000 MHz. The combination of the power level and frequency range is
eliminating many sources. Any recommendations?
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
---
The subject draft on protection of persons with implanted medical devices
from EM fields has been issued for comment. Unfortunately, all I have is a
scanned German language document, so I can't use an electronic translator
(tried OCR and got a useless result). Does anyone have a Word, PDF or
This almost appears to be too good to be true. Let's see if I have this
right.
34970A Data Acquisition/Switch Unit with software, $1290
34901A 20 Channel Mux, $395
34307A Thermocouple kit with 10 thermocouples, $98
Total for a 20 channel thermocouple system is $1881.
That's cheap! OK, what
We are developing an ITE product for the EU market that includes a Class 2
LED that produces Class 1 emissions outside the product. After review of
EN60950 and EN60825-1, I believe that the following requirements apply. The
clause references are in parentheses.
When assembled for normal
Well, this series sure took a left turn and accelerated hurriedly out of
site of the original intent which was to determine what the term consumer
means as used in the GPSD. The imaginary product example I put forth was
intended solely to support the question, and I in no way advocated that such
Gordon, cosider constructing a Technical Construction File (TCF) and
submitting it to a Competent Body. Your product may comply with the
essential requirements when operating in its intended environment without
the need to apply the full industrial strength tests. At least, you could
make that
Let's take an example of a non-rechargable 9V battery operated ITE product
intended soley for business use; and due to its nature, it is highly
unlikely to be used by laymen outside that business environment (i.e., not
in the home). That product is not subject to the LVD, but it might be
subject
I would like to know what members of the group are using for an ISN for
network emissions testing per alternative 1 of EN55022:1998 (clause
9.5.1.1). Can a CDN-T2 per EN61000-4-6 be used? Can the EM clamp per
EN61000-4-6 be used as the ferrites for testing with shielded cables per
C.1.2?
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