Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Przemek Klosowski]

The title translates as "attachment nr. 5.2 grinder for openings drawings".

Another Pole in an imaginary plane :)
p

On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 4:51 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 at 21:26, Przemek Klosowski
>  wrote:
> >
> > I see what looks like the correct formulas on p. 18 of this document ;
> > where are the incorrect ones?
>
> Page 26.
>
> But I had a different document, rendered on my PC as ZaÅ‚Ä?cznik nr
> 5.2 szlifierka do otworów rysunki.pdf
> (Looks like v5.2 of the same doc)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Capto

[Przemek Klosowski]

I see what looks like the correct formulas on p. 18 of this document ;
where are the incorrect ones?

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 6:55 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 at 22:01, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > This means that the large and small arcs are tangent to each other,
> > which requires that their centres lie on a perpendicular line, and
> > that in turn means that the arc centres of small and large arcs must
> > be coincident.
>
> Close, but no cigar, it seems.
>
> There is an equation in an online document
> (
> https://archiwum-bazakonkurencyjnosci.funduszeeuropejskie.gov.pl/file/download/587886
> )
> that isn't actually correct:
>
> x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
> y'= Dm/2×sinØ -2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)
>
> However, after getting hold of a pirate copy of the standard, it turns
> out that it was only slightly wrong. This is what it should be. ( -+++
> not -+-+)
>
> x'= Dm/2×cosØ −2×e×cos(2Ø)+e×cos(4Ø)
> y'= Dm/2×sinØ +2×e×sin(2Ø)+e×sin(4Ø)
>
> Plotted out this is very close to the shape that I had but differs by
> about 30 microns at the worst spots.
>
> The good news is that this is very easy to convert to either XY
> offsets for boring, or a radius for computed offset on a lathe as it
> is already in terms of spindle angle Ø.
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] JLCpcb (was Acorn CNC)

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 3:12 AM Ralph Stirling
 wrote:
>
> My last order from JLC was six different designs, five or ten of each, one 
> fully stuffed with ten or so high grade opto's and a bunch of discretes.  
> Total cost with shipping and paypal fee was $150, arrived in one week.  A 
> single board only job would probably be $20 with shipping.  Parts for an 
> assembled board are often less than the cost of a solder stencil by itself 
> (and their stencils are pretty cheap!), unless you have some higher 
> end/scarcer parts (like stm32f103 processors now $50...).  They only assemble 
> smd parts, no through hole.

huh? https://jlcpcb.com/partdetail/Stmicroelectronics-STM32F103C8T6/C8734
seems to be around $3 and they have several thousand in stock


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Re: [Emc-users] Just updated buster-master, lost camera, again.

[Przemek Klosowski]

So could you run gladevcp from the shell prompt and report results? I
assume it'll be essentially the same errors but maybe something will show
up earlier.
Where did you get gladevcp from---is it a standard distro executable or did
you compile your own?


> > EMBED_TAB_COMMAND = gladevcp -x {XID} camview.glade
> 
> > (gladevcp:8731): libglade-WARNING **: 13:08:46.052: did not finish in
> > PARSER_FINISH state
> >  GLADE VCP ERROR:With xml file: camview.glade : could not
> > create GladeXML object
> >   File "/usr/bin/gladevcp", line 207, in main
> > window.set_title(opts.component)
> > AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'set_title'
>
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Re: [Emc-users] [was Spindle indexing] now rigid tapping help

[Przemek Klosowski]

And a/o about 13:30 local, I am alone again. My Dee has passed.
>

 Gene, my sincere condolences.
Please let me express my respect for how you took care of your loved one,
giving companionship and comfort.
You are an inspiration to us young'uns.

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Re: [Emc-users] back to a bad cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 6:46 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> I have a 2" $70 Gibralter with very flat jaws. Does a great job of
> crimping. A year and 2-3 disconnects later, the cover is warped up in
> the middle and theres no connection for the 3 or 5 wires in the middle.
> Recrimp it and set your clock for 6 months. Wash rinse and repeat.  I'm
> obviously tired of it.
>

I saw faults like this, caused by a bad crimp. The individual wires are
supposed to slide into the y-shaped insulation displacement blades, past
the narrowing. If they don't, it's not a gas-tight connection and fails
eventually.
Maybe take the cover off, and inspect the cables and the blades---they
should poke through the insulation to a uniform height. If you're
(un?)lucky you may see some wires being just barely on the forks, not fully
in. You can use a flat blade screwdriver placed right behind the forks to
push individual wires down past the narrowing. This is by the way not a bad
way of crimping them in the first place, if you don't have a proper
crimper---and let me tell you that crimping 68-pin IDC connectors in one
shot is not easy.

Properly done, the iDC are very reliable---a lot of equipment is using
them, and for dozens of years. Definitely not failing every year.

By the way, the Russians and Bulgarians gate-for-gate-copied PDP and IBM
computers back in the seventies/eighties. THey were quite unreliable; the
difference was DEC and IBM used properly engineered, good quality
connectors, which were unavailable behind the Iron Curtain.

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Re: [Emc-users] Possibly useful tool for documenting machine wiring

[Przemek Klosowski]

The WireWiz software seems to be a preprocessor for graphViz which is a
fancy graph-drawing software originally from BellLabs. You can write your
own preprocessing for e.g. HAL files, or even write .dot files by hand.
GrahpViz is normally available from your regular neighborhood RPM/deb
repositories.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 10:17 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Wednesday 24 June 2020 09:41:09 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 at 14:25, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > Even that would be helpfull when bringing up a new machine. But it
> > > would not be fun to go thru the birds nest of a 7i90HD
> >
> > I was more thinking of it as a way to document what you already have
> > during the build so you can find what colour wire goes to where from
> > which terminal block a few years down the line.
>
> Describing my situation. But what would also be very helpful is a
> translation from a stepgen.0.step or dir to the corresponding gpio in
> case a signal needs inverted. That may jump around with the firmware
> installed, and I couldn't recall which is installed 4+ years later with
> a gun to my head.
>
> Now I have a new status signal to monitor, which I assume is a logic zero
> (closure to ground) at the drivers output when the driver is tripped.  I
> ran it into the chuck yesterday, which tripped it of with zero
> theatrics, and a power cycle which I can do with the F2 key, resets it.
> I am gradually converting all my machines so the motor power is removed
> if F2 is off.  And of course un-homing them at the same time.  Seems
> like I should do something creative with it, but not sure what other
> than a red/green pyvcp led tally. I's quite a few of those already...
>
> Ideas considered.
>
> Thanks Andy
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 7:42 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> My fav cable for motors where 4 wire is sufficient is
> star-quad, the worlds best shielded microphone cable, shielding is
> around 120 db! 4 wires in a twist pattern that for mikes, balances out
> any noise, plus a mylar shield with a 68% tinned copper braid overlay to
> ground the mylar. Made by Susan Clarks japanese supplier, Clark Wire &
> Cable in Chicago sells it on this side of the pond, its ultra flexible,
> laying anywhere like well cooked spaghetti but while its made in 22 and
> 26 ga, the 26 does heat a degree or so if driving a 4amp or more motor.
> Get the 22ga if she has it.
>
Under microphone cable quad star they have this:

 http://www.clarkwire.com/cableMINK4.htm
it seems to be 24 gauge. Is that what you are talking about? I didn't see
22/26 gauge microphone: the FieldFlex heavy is 20AWG.

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Re: [Emc-users] Interesting ARM SOC for Machine Control

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 5:05 AM Lester Caine  wrote:

> For the observant ... what is wrong with the front and back image of the
> BPI-F2S ...
>
> OK I give up---what's  wrong? I assume you're talking about
http://wiki.banana-pi.org/images/a/a6/850x371xBanana_PI_BPI-F2S_6.JPG.pagespeed.ic.6JAnstxchO.webp

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Re: [Emc-users] PMSM, STMBL Drive

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 10:13 AM andy pugh  wrote:

>
> The current STMBL design relies on a power module that is effectively
> unavailable (IRAM256-2067A2), so building one is difficult, and
> sourcing complete ones also difficult.
>

What do you think about the Ebay sources? It's a little crazy: many look
like they have been desoldered from old circuits, and the prices range from
few $ to $80+. Would you risk it?

As for the discrete respin, IRAM seems attractive because it seems to have
a lot of diagnostic and safety features built in. A discrete based design
has to reimplement what's needed for a safe design, which I have no idea
how to do. Are you confident STMBL is up to it?

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Re: [Emc-users] Open source CNC architecture

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 1:51 AM Rafael Skodlar  wrote:

>
> Think about LinuxCNC and it's packages. Using Slackware method you could
> try to use different version of LCNC to see if it's good for your CNC
> setup. If the new version fails (breaks your tool?) you could run
> "cnc-admin script" to roll back, i.e. relink the app to previous version
> and start it.
>
> /opt/linuxcnc-v2.6/bin  <- binaries or scripts
> /opt/linuxcnc-v2.6/etc  <- config files
> ...
>


> /opt/linuxcnc-v2.7/bin
> /opt/linuxcnc-v2.7/etc
> ...
>
What you suggest is not that simple. For starters, there are cross-package
dependencies, so in general you will have to carry various system libraries
required by each version. Then, modern programs use various forms of IPC,
so they need version specific versions of those IPC endpoints (things like
DBus, etc). IN the end, you can do it, but you replicate huge parts of the
OS. RedHat/Fedora tried to do Modularity, which is something like what you
propose except it turned out that you could have multi-version availability
but not multiversion installability (it was easy to switch versions, but
you could install only one). They put a lot of effort into making
dependencies work automatically, but in the end it turns out that lifecycle
management (patching/updating) is hard in a multi-version world: multiple
versions of multiple programs lead to combinatorial explosion of
dependencies and unresolvable conflicts when one program depends on ver. X
of something and another one on ver. Y. Currently Modularity is in retreat.

The technology to do that exists---containers like Docker or Podman. The
downside is that your system is now a mess of versions, and you need to
worry about patching and updating them. Containers provide a partial
solution to the Modularity problems---you can isolate such conflicts to
separate containers, but you still need to worry about lifecycle management.

If you are serious about those issues, read up on containers and
modularity---don't invent your own solutions, as a lot of people tried to
do it right and it's worth to learn from their experiences.

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Re: [Emc-users] question about glue

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 7:40 PM Bruce Layne
 wrote:

> Maybe remove most of the oily gunk with acetone, scrub with 60-100 grit
> sandpaper to create a rough surface for the epoxy to grab, then flood
> with isopropyl alcohol to thoroughly degrease the part prior to applying
> epoxy.
Maybe clean the residue with isopropanol BEFORE scouring the
surface---otherwise you could introduce oil into crevices that it'll
be hard to get out of.
Then sandpaper, and maybe one more isopropanol wipe for good measure.


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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Saga

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 7:46 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I thought I had set up a static IP.  Although the odd thing is I can set the 
> mask to 255.255.255.0 and save it but when I get back into the dialog it 
> shows 24.  Go figure.
Right, because 255.255.255 is 24 ones followed by 8 zeros, and the
netmasks are often described by how many bits they mask, denoted like
so: 192.268.11.0 /24


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle experiences/recommendations?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019, 10:17 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I've read that centripetal force is "pushing inward" which sounds like
> utter baloney to me. When anything is spinning, nothing is pushing inward.


No, that's not right. If nothing pushed inward then the body would fly of
on a tangent straight line, as Newton said.
The centripetal force makes it turn inward and follow the circle. The body
therefore accelerates and that is equivalent to an effective force F=m a
that feels centrifugal.

It's going around in a circle with every atom attempting to fly outward. If
> the spinning thing is hollow and there are loose objects inside it, such as
> people, those objects are being forced outward by the centrifugal force
> while the material composing the outer parts and the inner surface resists
> that outward force - as long as structural integrity doesn't fail.
>
> If a spinning object's integrity fails, the broken bits fly off at tangent
> vectors which can be calculated based on rotational speed, angular
> velocity, and mass of the fragments.
> Force requires motion, or the energy expended *attempting* to produce
> motion. In a rotating object there's no force *attempting to push or pull
> inward*, it's resistance to outward motion - until the object is of
> sufficient mass that gravity is strong enough to bother with. Get up to
> planet size and centrifugal force and gravity get to have a spinning tug of
> war that slightly flattens planets that rotate fast enough.
> Earth's mass and rotation speed make the diameter at the equator enough
> larger than the distance through the axis that Mt. Everest is only the 10th
> highest point from Earth's center, with the peak of Mt. Chimborazo 1.3
> miles higher than the peak of Mt. Everest.
>  On Wednesday, June 26, 2019, 12:33:04 AM MDT, Erik Christiansen <
> dva...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> I wasn't exposed to such overzealous physics lecturers, although
> colleagues back in the '80s had been. My reaction to them describing
> centrifugal force as a "fictitious force" was to reason that it is a
> resultant force, equal and opposite to the centripetal force which is
> continually accelerating the mass, just as gravity does with
> astronomical bodies. But that's just my reaction to what I heard.
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Re: [Emc-users] Wanted, small engine whiz

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 6:18 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Come back, pull the carb and clean it, put it back totether, fires right
> at about a 600 rev idle. Left the cleaner off because its oil soaked.???

No small engine expert I, but it possibly looks like oil-logged air
filter. The crankcase is normally ventilated to the filtered air
register, and if you tilt the engine the oil can flow through this
tube and soak the filter, clogging it essentially. It would indeed
blow smoke from all the oil incoming into the engine. It's easy to
check---just take the filter out and if the engine runs without it and
dies seconds after you place it back in, you got your guy.


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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 11:26 AM Jon Elson  wrote:
>
> On 05/27/2019 11:54 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I want to download putty so I can access the com1 port and talk to the DC 
> > Servo controller for diagnostics.
> >
> Why would you use putty, which is really for Windows
> systems.  I've NEVER seen putty used on Linux/Unix.  There
> is minicom, takes a few minutes to find where all the
> settings are made (Ctrl/A ctrl/Z gets you into the menus).

My recommendation would be to use 'screen'

screen /dev/ttyUSB0 9600

just because you don't have to mess with minicom menus and stored parameters.


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Re: [Emc-users] possibly good news for LinuxCNC

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 4:39 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 at 14:47, andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > When I get back the machine tonight I will report back with the last
> > thing seen on the screen.
>
> I tried the suggested new config, and this is what I get:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZw-nLf_XBg
>
> Immediately after "started apache http server" it goes to a screen
> that is blank but for a (not flashing) cursor.
>

It is pretty far along if it got to starting the apache server: the kernel
booted, the init process must have run a bunch of setup, etc.
I'd disable apache and try booting again; maybe change the linux kernel
commandline by adding something like 'single' or 'init=/bin/sh', to get a
basic system with just shell running.
If that's stable, then I'd start running various services by hand, one by
one.
Of course it is possible that the the kernel runs for few seconds and
latches up, and it just coincides with apache startup---but you should see
that while in the single shell as well.

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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 2:20 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Personally I think that's a load of crap.  Usenet and email postings are
> sequential.  Scrolling through hundreds of lines of text all indented with
> various amounts of ">>>" depending on when it was posted is not only mind
> numbing but leads to ignoring posts.  I've lost track of the number of
> times I hit the X on the email when there are pages of old stuff that I
> just read on a previous email.  Now I have to carefully scroll through to
> find the reply.  Not worth my time.
>

It's not just the order of posting---it's also the courteous habit of
editing the post so that your response follows just the minimal snippet
necessary to provide the context to what you're saying. I think that more
than 12 lines of context almost always mean that such courtesy was not
extended.

Another thing---it's not just the Linux invaders who insist on
bottom-posting---it's an age-honored tradition of the Usenet, so I am
surprised that you are surprised by it.

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Re: [Emc-users] Pc choice ... help

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 2:13 PM theman whosoldtheworld 
wrote:

>
> PCW in the forum normally suggest desktop motherboard ... Is it just a
> matter of Platform Controller Hub that prevented the rt-preemt kernels
> from having good performances?
>
I always thought the realtime latencies are mostly caused by the black
magic of the SMB---the system management firmware which is allowed to take
over completely from the main CPU. Somehow this is connected to the video
hardware: even though video normally does not have its own non-preemptible
firmware. The way I understand it, the SMB code ends up calling the video
callbacks which are poorly designed and take excessively long.

Since SMB is a black box subsystem, there's no way to predict its
latencies. My understanding is that there is only one sure way to find
out:  run latency tests, like LinuxCNC is doing.

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Re: [Emc-users] Wish me luck. I am downloading v.18 of freecad as src, gonna see if I can build a 32 bit version

[Przemek Klosowski]

GOod luck---this one uses a lot of libraries...

On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 9:39 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 10:26 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>  Leave it to humans with no concept of common sense, but lots of don't
> rock the boat
> rules and you get TMI, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. And probably 100 more
> lessor 'accidents' we haven't been told about.
>

Gene, this is just not the case. There's no way that 'lesser nuclear
accidents'  are covered up, unless you include people falling off ladders
and such. Accidents with release of radioactivity are super easy to detect,
and so rather hard to cover up.

Plus, one serious coal mine disaster (e.g. our 2010 Upper Big Branch Mine,
29 deaths) has about similar number of fatalities as all these nuclear
disasters (the official counts are TMI = 0, Chernobyl = 31, Fukushima = 0).
There are good reasons why coal mining has a reputation of one of the most
dangerous jobs there are. Read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_accident and
weep.

Of course on top of direct accident deaths due to nuclear industry
accidents there's mortality due to long-term radiation effects, but if you
count those, it's only fair to count black lung deaths among miners as
well, and all the deaths due to smog pollution.

You have a point that lots of rules limit progress in nuclear industry, but
these rules do have an impressive track record for safety. We don't put new
cheaper parts on airplanes, either, and for a good reason. This reminds me
that I once met some guys that watch FAA advisories and figure out what
spare parts they cover, then buy all available supply of these parts. The
sheer evil genius of their business plan left me speechless---leave it to
the free market forces to find a way to profit; but if the alternative is
to do away with FAA regulations, I am OK with the speculators.

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Re: [Emc-users] head scratcher, updated some more

[Przemek Klosowski]

>
>
>  a long document, is there some trick to making google translate
> the whole thing?
>
if you just need to translate a section about some particular register
you're interested in, just cut and paste into the direct translation box.
Otherwise, download and split the Chinese doc and then upload individual
pieces, using teh Documents button above the translation box. I haven't
tried translating my own Google Drive documents, but it could work too, and
save uploading them back.

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Re: [Emc-users] head scratcher, updated

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 1:07 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> memtest86 still has me scratching my head. If its so badly broken, then
> how in hell is it running lcnc without a hiccup while I go thru the
> copies of the original .ini and .hal files, fixing the syntax errors
> that changing the hardware its running on makes? Heck of a good question
> that. With some luck and a bigger supply of giddyup I might even have it
> rigged to drive some of the machine good enough to carve its own back
> panel by the time the new memory gets here late Monday.
>
> Well, maybe it's the memtest installation that's broken---uninstall and
reinstall? It' should rewrite the boot areas memtest uses, in case they got
corrupted

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Re: [Emc-users] head scratcher

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 1:53 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Thought maybe I'd see if my memory (in the machine, I know /mine/ is
> shot)
> was getting finicky. And the uptimes on this D525MW board haven't been
> that great recently, but I reboot and choose memtest86 from the grub
> menu, and it advises the mem is wrong, and reverts to the grub menu in
> about 5 seconds.
>
> Run synaptic, see there is a slightly newer version available under a
> slightly different name, but installed, it obviously needs someone 100%
> familiar with the map available just to run it.
>
> The msg at the top of the screen is wrong address, 0x99100, 0x8F000
>
> And it reverts to the grub menu in about 5 seconds.
>

Memtest boots and runs as the only program on the system; 'revert to grub'
is probably memtest crashing and rebooting the system.
I have never seen it behaving this way: even with bad memory I have only
seen it report errors while still running.
This may be actually good news: it's possible that your memory is so bad
that even the tiny region from which memtest runs is hopelessly corrupt.
Did you try re-seating the DIMMs? If that doesn't help, get new ones and
swap them out. It's possible that the memory controller went bad, too..
What was the history of the system---it worked fine and started
miisbehaving recently without anything else contributing (like
brownouts/lightning/fat-fingered nephews/BIOS battery dying and scrambling
the memory controller settings)

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Re: [Emc-users] G10 L2 R-90 isn't working?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 12:56 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Now its Thursday and, I'm back from the body shop, typeing a little
> slower, and sorer and with a foreign object in my chest. A pacemaker.
>

I'm glad to hear that it turned out this way, and you got it in time. My
dad also needed it, and he fought the docs who wanted  to install it, but
finally we got it done, and it's for the better.
I hope both of you have many productive years ahead!

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Re: [Emc-users] Feed/Rapid override physical knob selection

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 4:00 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> I assume this one is waterproof when installed, but not inherently:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253300957997


MPJA still has a $20 handwheel, nicely done:

http://www.mpja.com/Handwheel-Digital-Encoder-100PPR-5VDC/productinfo/33106+MI

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Re: [Emc-users] QtDro Qt5 c++ upgrade/study need help for two error

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 12:30 PM theman whosoldtheworld
 wrote:
>
> I'm trying to study QtDro and upgrade to the new QT5.11 both in the
> linking library version
> and in the included library version.
>
> Unfortunately I run into two errors that I can not understand:
>
> -1- Inifile inifile; -> inifile is not declared in these scope ... why?
> -2- EMC_NMLFILE is not declared in this scope ... why?

I am not familiar with this software, but just on general principle,
you are missing the definitions of the type/class Infiile and the
defined symbol EMC_NMLFILE.
what I'd do is find where they are---e.g.
grep -r EMC_NMLFILE ~
Hopefully this will find the files that define them, and then you'll
just add them to the compile options. Not LIBS though---it probably
should be something like INCLUDES or some such.

>
> in my .pro file I add the right
> LIBS += home/mypc/linuxcnc-dev/include
> LIBS += home/mypc/linuxcnc-dev/src
> LIBS += home/mypc/linuxcnc-dev/lib ... etc etc
>
> so the library and class added in #incluse become from righ path
>
>  ...
>
>
>
> thanks for every suggest
> bkt
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1c6NW9mQN2ypxXtPiCujofYd6zO2SUpnm
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pvjWwnKTr2xjkY8OTMTlUUkBJsczP2QH
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Servo Failure

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 4:57 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 at 02:58, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
>
> > Really Andy? There are a couple of overlapping 1/8" diameter holes
> burned through the board where the transistor mounts.
>

It's just a flesh wound

>
> But as long as the components have something to hold them in place
> then "dead bug" construction floating in air will work.
>
> Before PCBs everything was built that way: https://goo.gl/images/k2RcX5
> And for very specialised applications, sometimes they stil are:
> https://hackaday.com/2015/02/10/the-one-million-dollar-scope-teardown/
>

Well, those aren't wires---they are waveguides, probably copper tubing.
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Re: [Emc-users] Possibly useful keyboards

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 5:12 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Wednesday 01 August 2018 13:50:46 Przemek Klosowski wrote:
>
> > How about $12.50? Here's a purportedly waterproof, lit up plastic job
> > at Banggood
> >
> > https://www.banggood.com/JiZZ-GX16-Waterproof-LED-Backlight-Mechanical
> >-Handfeel-Gaming-Keyboard-p-976896.html?utm_design=147_source=emars
> >ys_medium=Mail_US09_email_campaign=newsletter%E2%80%94emarsys
> >tm_content=Winna_src=email_3138530_eh=35422cecd170ae1e1_llid=3
> >02692_lid=122562085_uid=nM5Tc3ihrE_warehouse=USA
> >
> Looks good, but those tapered side keys are instant jam from flying
> swarf. The square sided keys of a logitech K360 aren't proof from swarf
> jams, but do reduce them to a tolerable level, but they've disappeared
> from the supply chain now. I've also killed a couple of them with an
> errant coffee cup. I wonder if they have a keyboard cover for this one?
> It might even work, as long as the cord would reach the machine.
>

so I haven't used this one, but they do show a picture of it partly
submerged in water, so I think it has a continuous membrane all around the
unit.
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Re: [Emc-users] Possibly useful keyboards

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 10:13 PM Ken Strauss  wrote:

> Few, including me, would pay $250 for a keyboard! As I mentioned I got mine
> on ebay for about $50. Add an ebay search and wait until one pops up.
>
How about $12.50? Here's a purportedly waterproof, lit up plastic job at
Banggood

https://www.banggood.com/JiZZ-GX16-Waterproof-LED-Backlight-Mechanical-Handfeel-Gaming-Keyboard-p-976896.html?utm_design=147_source=emarsys_medium=Mail_US09_email_campaign=newsletter%E2%80%94emarsys_content=Winna_src=email_3138530_eh=35422cecd170ae1e1_llid=302692_lid=122562085_uid=nM5Tc3ihrE_warehouse=USA


>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 9:46 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Possibly useful keyboards
> >
> > On Tuesday 31 July 2018 20:11:36 Ken Strauss wrote:
> >
> > > I purchased a "Sejin Staco Switch SKR-3620P PS/2 88 Key Washable
> > > Industrial Keyboard" on eBay for about $50 a couple of years ago. It
> > > doesn't have the best feel for touch typing and the trackpad is a
> > > little clumsy. For CNC operation I mostly use a touch screen so the
> > > less than ideal mouse is not a huge problem for me. The good news is
> > > that it is *COMPLETELY* resistant to swarf. When it gets covered with
> > > aluminum chips I just dust them off with 150psi air from the blow gun.
> > >
> > > See
> > > https://www.stacosystems.com/product/m77760-military-rugged-duty-usb-
> > k
> > >eyboar d/ for a very similar keyboard. It is not cheap but certainly
> > > beats keys jamming from captured swarf.
> >
> > $245 to $295 is way above this old mans pay grade. While there I looked
> > for touch screen monitors, but those I could afford were tapped out, and
> > most were much lower resolution than the 23" Samsung digital tv with a
> > blown tuner I'm using now. Its main prob is I need to open it up and
> > replace some electrolytics in the lamp psu, its a ccfl backlight and
> > takes several minutes to get to full, almost usable brightness. Made in
> > 2007 or so, its the right age to be full of bad caps. Next time I'm in
> > Bridgeport, I'll hit Big Lots and see if they have anything usable.
> >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:39 PM
> > > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Possibly useful keyboards
> > > >
> > > > On Tuesday 31 July 2018 09:40:24 andy pugh wrote:
> > > > > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denford-CNC-tutor-
> > > >
> > > > panels/323324414862?hash=
> > > >
> > > > >item4b47a30b8e:g:geAAAOSwKb1bN1hG
> > > >
> > > > Only 1 and not working.
> > > >
> > > > But a much bigger monitor/touch-screen could be handy around the
> > > > mill. Even a square keyed logitech K360 gets hung up with swarf
> > > > entirely too easily. So I wouldn't mind either a flat membrane
> > > > keyboard, or a bigger hand held touch-screen. I do have a
> > > > touch-screen that isn't in use but the monitor is already committed.
> > > > rs-232 output at 9600 baud IIRC. But its a grocery store fugitive,
> > > > ebay sold hundreds of 3 or 4 years back and IMO too small to run
> > > > lcnc on, 16" diagonal, maybe. Do we have an interface for that, or
> > > > would it take mods to gmocopy to use that. I am reasonably sure its
> > > > data format is xy location and keydown for as long as the finger
> > > > rests there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > > --
> > > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > > Genes Web page 
> > >
> > > --
> > >-- --
> > >
> > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
>
> 
> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech 

Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: CAD for LinuxCNC

[Przemek Klosowski]

I always wondered if a small LCD projector would be enough to expose a
typical photosensitive PCB--they can be had for not much more than $100,
and are surprisingly bright at small distance (of course they aren't worth
much for what they are solf for, displaying onto large walls:)
If that worked, it would be easy and fast (no scanning, just project your
gerbers)

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:07 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> I like the idea of using a small laser for exposing the PCB.  I already
> have
> a CNC router with roller skate bearings (it doesn't yet use the linear
> bearings and rails I bought to upgrade it).  Might be nicer than milling
> the
> PCB although still need to drill holes too.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dan Bloomquist [mailto:z...@lakeweb.net]
> > Sent: July-24-18 6:53 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: CAD for LinuxCNC
> >
> >
> >
> > John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >> I've been using Fusion 360 for a few years now. The license is
> > >> $300/year. They have a post processor for linuxcnc so the CAM directly
> > >> generates g-code that I can take out to the machine. As an example, I
> > >> had to cut a couple of these from 303:
> > >> 
> > > Hi Dan,
> > > Sweet.  Are you running a MAC or PC with windows for Fusion?
> > > John
> >
> > Hi John,
> > Thanks. This is my wife's and my business.
> > 
> >
> > My desk machine, where Fusion lives, is windows 7. Linux is on my mill
> > and I have a couple of beaglebone blacks.
> >
> > But I have to use windows as it is my day job. As far as Apple goes, I
> > was all about it back in the Apple I and II days. But they prioritized
> > when they went to Mac, so I lost interest in Apple. Now that there is
> > Linux, who needs apple :)
> >
> > Best, Dan.
> >
> > P.S. I like this:
> > 
> > I would build the machine differently. But great thing is, you can use
> > the same machine to do a photo sensitive solder mask as a next step!
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> --
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Going off-grid [Was: Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> i don't see why not, Lester. 12 or 24 volts would go a long ways toward
> keeping the NEC out of your hair. Insurance folks are stickier about
> such stuff, so I'd ask them if they had any special wireing rules for
> low voltage led lighting. The only thing that comes to my pre-coffee
> mind is the heavier wire the 12 volt stuff would need, whereas 24 could
> run on a gauge smaller, and 48 on really small wire.  I would fuse it,
> using fuses of 150 to 200% of the leds draw though. Provided that was
> also under the wires textbook ampere capacity.
>
> I don't know if the NEC has addressed that yet. but I'd sure do some
> checking before I built a $100k house with all led lighting. My copy is
> now 20 years old, and that chapter wasn't even a twinkle in anybodies
> eyes then.
>
Be careful with DC: the DC circuit arcing is much worse than AC.
That's why DC specs for switches and relays are significantly derated
compared to AC. The LED lighting fortunately mitigates that somehow by
using much less current, but if you wire the whole system and push
tens of amps, it would be a mistake to just wing it because "NEC
doesn't cover low voltage".

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Re: [Emc-users] Differential receivers for omron encoders. Got a bag of them.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> >  And of course throw in Ed Nissle (spelling?) as an Honorable Mention.
>

Ed Nisley, who now has an interesting blog The Smell of Molten Projects in
the Morning
 on https://softsolder.com
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Re: [Emc-users] showstopper on gear change tally.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 10:01 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>  I had, a year ago, a plastic baggie, quart size of
> the remains of several Radio Shack assortments that would have supplied
> that, but it and a 3 lb coffee can full of 6800 u-f, 75 volt
> electrolytics took a walk when I left the garage door open on a nice
> spring day
>

Who would steal a coffee can with capacitors? I am going to blame the darn
squirrels.
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Re: [Emc-users] Hope it's only the red ones.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Erik Christiansen 
wrote:

> On 09.10.17 09:06, sam sokolik wrote:
> > I am very doubtful that the red dye is causing the problem..  (I
> dissected a
> > few styes - all have shielded pairs)
>
> Agreed. To see if the described "powdered copper wire" was the cause, I
> hacked into my replaced cable last night, and found that there's Al foil
> and a lot of clear polyethylene (or similar) in between. Furthermore,
> the substantial tinned conductors were pristine.
>
> So all I can truly report is that nothing would bring the machine back
> to life until I replaced the cable, and boot times and disk performance
> are 2 - 4 times better than shortly before it went catatonic.
> Reason? Dunno. So just a time-saving fortuitous coincidence?
>
> Could it be oxidation on the connector? vigorous unplugging and replugging
wiping it clean, perhaps?
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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Ed  wrote:

>  Am I right that 15 microns translates to .00038 inches?

More like 0.6mil--slightly more but still  software problems aren't the
likely cause. What is the expected resolution from a single motor step?
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Re: [Emc-users] git requests

[Przemek Klosowski]

You probably made changes to the files, so git pull realizes that it'd
overwrite your changes and refuses to run. If you don't care about your
changes, just abandon them
git reset --hard origin/master
git pull origin master
If you do care about your changes, you have to stash them away: perhaps
create a branch and merge it back when you update from remote master.


On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Wednesday 23 August 2017 21:28:21 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > See "man git-pull"
> >
> > The man page has the dash but when you type the command , no dash.
> > "git pull" merge upstream changes with any you have made locally.
> >
> IPt refuses to do it, apparently in exploring git gui, I've contaminated
> the clone checkout so its not virgin anymore.
>
> > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:39 PM, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > If I an cd'd to a linuxcnx-git directory already containing a clone
> > > of the 2.8.0-pre source tree, what is the proper command to update
> > > it to the current 2.8.0-pre?  I do not see an update command in a
> > > "man git".
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > Genes Web page 
> > >
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Using laser time of flight sensor to home mill

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Dan Bloomquist  wrote:

> I have not set homing up on my mill yet, I've been mulling it over. A
> switch is not satisfying unless there is a way to keep from hunting for it,
> can't imagine...
>
> So it occurred to me to us a laser range finder. Then lcnc would know
> where the table is without having to move on boot. It does not have to be
> accurate like to mm as I probably never have to mill to the limit switches,
> and even then
>
> So I started to look around out there, this is amazing for the price:
>  Sensor-Breakout-GY-VL53L0XV2-Module-for-Arduino-/201718280643>


THey claim 1mm accuracy in measuring light time of flight. I doubt that: it
would require measuring time with a 3 picosecond accuracy, in other words
requiring ticks of a 300 GHz clock. I am sure they do some sort of phase
measurement, which is by definition sloppy, which is why they apparently
claim 10% accuracy.
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Re: [Emc-users] Installing On Older Computer

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Todd Zuercher 
wrote:

> Is there a trick to installing Linuxcnc/Wheezy on an older single core
> computer?
>
> I have a machine that has been happily running Linuxcnc for some time on
> an older Linuxcnc Ubuntu 10,04 install.
> It is an older P4 2.8gHz cpu (single core) with 1G memory and works
> reasonably well with Lucid. This PC is a little bit special in that it has
> some ISA slots on the motherboard and 1 ISA card is used by Linuxcnc to
> interface with the machine.
>
> I have tried several times to test or install the newer Linuxcnc/Wheezy
> iso. But it boots and runs painfully slow, and neither the latency tests or
> Linuxcnc will open. Trying to start Linuxcnc from the command line tells me
> nothing.
>
> Any ideas why this machine refuses to work with the newer version?
>

It's gotta be video drivers... can you run it in single user mode? Can you
switch to teh text coinsole (Ctrl-Alt-F1 (or 2 or 3)).
Do you see the graphical desktop at all?
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Re: [Emc-users] making clone of the sd card. It works!

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 11:36 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> My useing dd against the mounted sd card, not the mounted partitions, but
> the raw card, making a 32 gigabyte image of the whole card worked when I
> used dd to put that file back on another, would not boot, sd card
>

I had issues with this, which I suspect result from cards having slightly
different numbers of sectors (nominally XX GB, but the actual number being
XX.XX1 and XX.XX2, this type of thing).
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Re: [Emc-users] about to give up on the pi's

[Przemek Klosowski]

Just to further confuse the matters, here's another ARM board: it's a
BeagleBone version specially designed for robotics/machine control:

http://makezine.com/product-review/beaglebone-blue/?utm_source=facebook_medium=social_campaign=digikey_term=boards%20guide_content=beaglebone%20blue

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings;
>
> What x86 board, suitably small but not that outpriced yudoo thingy, will
> run linuxcnc well AND can do the spi thing?
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
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>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Google Docs Scam

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 3:11 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> I am getting a flurry of invitations to view Google docs. They lead to
> a google server, so look genuine, but I am pretty sure they aren't. I
> think they are just Google-hosted.
>
> Yup, and also Adobe PDF docs and FedEx shipping bills. You can hover the
mouse cursor over them to look at the actual link, and see that it goes to
weird sites like http://somewhere.in.hackerland/ rather than
Google/Adobe/Fedex.com
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Re: [Emc-users] Way OT, Unexpected Result from Refrigerator

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 12:00 PM, andy pugh 

> I am impressed that someone managed to come up with this cycle:
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mnr/fridge.html


No less a celebrity than Albert Einstein himself:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator


and ammonia refrigeratos also had a reputation for poisoning its users when
a leak developed.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Stephen Dubovsky  wrote:
> ARM has over 80 licensees for just the Cortex family.  Atmel has... only
> themselves.  If you are going to invest the time & money to setup and
> develop for a chip, not just for a current project but unknown future ones,
> you will likely be better off starting/switching to ARM.

Of course! You can't just avoid ARM---they crept into everything, from
the lowest-lowest end 30-cent Cortex M0s to multi-core 64-bit A53
monsters that compete with Pentiums. I see other companies getting
antsy about their proprietary lines, e.g. TI announcing MSP432 which
is really an ARM with MSP430-like peripherals---although they have
been awfully quiet after announcing it with some fanfare few years
ago. I guess the good'ole MSP430 is selling well.
Such legacy demand is blessing and a curse to vendors like TI and
especially Microchip, who have the amazing zoo of architectures:
several 8, 12, 16, 18, 20 and 24-bit PICs, MIPS (disguised as PIC32)
and now AVR and an ARM line. I guess they will just keep making them
while they have legacy customers---Microchip has a reputation of
almost never abandoning existing customers. There's a nice niche for
companies like them, or Rochester, who still make the 1980's chips
like 9513.
By the same token, though, one shouldn't use them in new designs
unless there was some compelling technical reason, like an exotic
peripheral that only exists on the old chip.

Having said that, the current new kid on the block is RISC-V, which
actually IS open-sourced: it's an academic project which, however, has
some credible industrial partners that are making parts and boards.
It'll of course have hard time getting the breadth of software and
hardware support that ARM has, but I was impressed what they have been
able to achieve so far.
Stephen, did you have a look at them? I guess a guy like you would
have very little incentive to look for an ARM alternative, but maybe
there was something that caught your eye even if you wouldn't plan to
adopt it?

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Re: [Emc-users] Math Q

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:35 AM, Erik Christiansen
<dva...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> On 22.02.17 22:43, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
>> This is my cue to remind everyone that Google has a built-in units
>> converter with tons of units built in, not just inches. You can simply
>> type your expression (44mm sqrt(3)/3) and ask for the result "in
>> inches":
>
> Didn't know that. But then, I have not needed to venture past
> "Unix is the (multifaceted) IDE". ;-)
>
> $ units
> ...
> I sometimes use the wiregauge to mm conversion

It's not inconceivable that google actually uses units behind the
scenes; there are some differences in syntax but the coverage is quite
similar.
Thanks for pointing the wiregauge() function--it's quite useful; I
note that it works in Google too:

https://www.google.com/#q=wiregauge(24)+in+mm&*

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Re: [Emc-users] Math Q

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 2:13 AM, Chris Albertson
 wrote:

> 2) I let my wife read the Chinese.  But it still makes little sense.  The
> characters can have several meaning depending on context and without a
> technical education you can't "get" the context.I think this is why
> Google Translate does so poorly with the Chinese data sheets.

 FWIW, I translated an entire instruction manual from Chinese by
dumping it into GT and fixing up the result by what I knew about the
device, reverse engineering and plain common sense.
https://github.com/przemekklosowski/mhs52xx/raw/master/MHS5200.pdf
I believe it's good enough for many purposes, if you know what you're
looking for.

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Re: [Emc-users] Math Q

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:31 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>> The bolt circle is right at 2" (50.8mm) diameter on the MPG I got.
>> Funny it is not metric.
>
> I've gotten used to metric, we use it in electronics a lot, that I never
> gave it a thought it might be inches

This is my cue to remind everyone that Google has a built-in units
converter with tons of units built in, not just inches. You can simply
type your expression (44mm sqrt(3)/3) and ask for the result "in
inches":

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=44mm+sqrt(3)/3+in+inches&*

to get the nice "1.00013432 inches" result

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> On 2/22/2017 12:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
>> moved away from AVR.
>
> I'm missing something.
>
> Where can you buy ARM based boards for under $5.00?  Or did you mean $50 ?
>
> The Arduino Zero is $54 -$40 and the Neutrino, the kickstarter clone of
> the Zero is $19 if you can buy one.
> Both boards also work with the Atmel ICE as well apparently.
>
Maybe it's like the audiophile market---high prices for the unwary enthusiast.
Look for STM32 Arduino instead: http://www.stm32duino.com/
and the actual product that seems to be $2-$3 on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/252412486813?lpid=82=ps_noapp=true

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Re: [Emc-users] Eagle mill retro fit

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Dan Bloomquist  wrote:
> Another question I have. Would it be a big deal to go PC-104? That would
> really keep the size of the new hardware down. I've never worked with a
> PC-104 before. The pc-104 version of the LX25 board is like $140 more
> than the PCI version. I don't get that.

I think PC-104 is only being kept around because of legacy issues
(industrial and military). I wouldn't put it in a new
project---everything about it is expensive, Even though PC-104 does
support PCI, it uses a non-standard connector so it's just a headache.
On the other hand, it does still have the ISA bus so it is much easier
to add your own hardware.
The small NUC boxes are basically the same size as PC-104---around 4"
on the side.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16856102141

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and a Consumer Product

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 12:11 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> This is touted to be 100% compatible with R-Pi stuff. But has an
> allwinner H3 brain, so it runs on intel code, not arm.

All Allwinner products are ARM:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allwinner_Technology#H-Series_.28OTT_box_application.29
http://linux-sunxi.org/H3

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Re: [Emc-users] following along in my what if musings about ther new oramge pi 2e

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 11:18 PM, Chris Albertson
 wrote:
> Let's say we have two computers and each is sending UDP packets to two
> different Mesa cards.   I can't see how those packets would ever be on
> the same physical cable, assuming a switched network.   Each computer
> has its own cable to the switch.  The switch will read the packets and
> place them on different outbound ports each with its own cable going
> to the different Mesa boards.The UDP packets can't collide

In theory, no. In practice, they all use the internal switch bus, and
you are depending on the implementation details of a random network
switch chip from a far-away country. Maybe they can switch fine on the
first simultaneous arrival but can't sustain repeated collisions, or
whatever. You just have to test it, and it's not quite easy-you'd have
to set up four (or 2*N) independent Ethernet stations with very
tightly coordinated on-wire packet streams.

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Re: [Emc-users] following along in my what if musings about ther new oramge pi 2e

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:42 PM, Stephen Dubovsky  wrote:
> Why would UDP need resends on a shared ethernet port?  There are no
> collisions on a full-duplex port & switch (which is pretty much ALL of them
> now-a-days.)  Passive hubs went the way of the dodo.

Of course, but you are assuming an ideal active switch, and that may
or may not be the case. All the switched ports are sitting on an
internal bus, whose bandwidth has to be better than N/2*individual
port bandwidth, because in principle, all port pairs could be active
at the same time; on a cheap switch that 'bisection' bandwidth may not
quite be there.  Also, in general, two originators could be trying to
talk to the same receiving port and collide on it---switches of course
must implement some form of  'store and forward' to be able to decide
where to switch the packet to, but cheap switches do not have a deep
store queue---maybe they can handle one or two packets but not more
than that. So, in practice, the collisions and dropped packets are
possible.

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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:27 PM, rayj  wrote:
>
> I suspect I have been using the ends for solid wire on stranded wire!!
> Do you know where I can get a quick education on which is which and how
> to tell the difference?

There's no 'standard', but what I've seen is this: the stranded wire
contacts have a couple of sharp spikes, like a fork: they pierce the
insulation and dig in between the strands of the cable. The solid wire
contacts look like  three spades in a row, sligtly offset like this:
_--_; they go through the insulation and capture the solid core
between the blades. The contacts are pretty small---1-2mm size, so you
have to look very closely.

If you use the stranded wire contacts on a solid wire, it'll just
cut/break the core. If you use the solid contacts on stranded wire,
the clamping force might not be enough to form a gas-tight connection
because the wire is too flexible.

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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Steve Traugott  wrote:
> ...and for encoder cables, you may want shielded twisted pair (has a foil
> layer under the jacket).  I've had issues with unshielded twisted pair
> picking up motor EMF and adding extra encoder counts.  ;-)

Very true, but the foil shield is famous for shredding under repeated
bending. Like Seymour Cray used to say, parity bits just cause more
errors, or in other words every problem starts as a solution to
another problem.

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Re: [Emc-users] Need recommendation on encoder cable --> Ethernet cable?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Chris Albertson
 wrote:
> Ethernet patch cable might work. .  Don't try and make you own.The 
> pre-made ones come in any
> length from about 12" to 25 feet and they have those over molded train
You're absolutely right about buying cables---the cost is so low that
it doesn't make sense. The patch cords actually get down to few inches
(3-4"), which is great for local cabling in tight spaces.


>The common kind of RF45 termination tools work only with the
> solid in-wall kind of wire so don't use them.

Actually, it's not the termination tools, but the terminals and plugs
themselves---they are still insulation-displacing crimps, but the
shape of the spades is different. In the beginning of the computer era
we used to make our own cables and used the same tools with different
plugs---it was a PITA because they looked the same (translucent
plastic). Unless you opened a new marked box, we used to inspect the
connector and it wasn't easy---you had to squint at the shape of the
tiny gold-plated terminals through wavy plastic.

If you used the wrong type for your wire, you'd get a broken wire
touching the terminal by a tension in the plastic insulation: it might
work for a little bit, but eventually the lack  of gas-tight
metal-metal connection would cause it to fail.

I'm saying this because someone might actually make a patch cable in a
pinch, and that's what you have to pay attention to.

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Re: [Emc-users] pressure equalizer method around ball nut

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 1:08 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 7 October 2016 at 17:09, Dave Cole  wrote:
> >
> > Does this give me a clue?
> > https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_is_aluminium_and_
> its_oxide_electrical_properties2
>
> It seems to be lots of people saying "Aluminium is non-conducting"
> without doing the simple test with a multimeter to check their theory.
>

Aluminum metal is of course conductive, because it is, well, a metal with
free charge carriers and all. Al2O3 (aka ALUMINA)  layer on the surface is
not conductive, except that when it is naturally formed, it's just 5-10nm
thick. If you apply 1V across it, the field strength is in the megavolts
per centimetre, which happens to be near the dielectric breakdown field for
alumina, so under normal conditions you get conductivity.

If the alumina layer is thickened (e.g. by anodization), the aluminum
objects will be isolated; this is sometimes used for heatsinks and such,
except that the isolation is fragile because alumina is hard, and the
underlying aluminum metal is soft.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT Seating Tire Bead

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 8:44 AM, John Thornton  wrote:
> The easy way to seat the bead on a riding lawnmower tire is to place the
> tire on a bucket, cover the center with a rag, push down on the rim,
> inflate. The air pressure will build up in the bucket and you can feel
> the rim rising up to force the tire to expand to seat the bead. Works
> every time.

I'm not seeing it---are you placing the loose, unseated  tire/rim
assembly on a bucket? what touches the bucket rim---the uninflated
tire? I kind-of see how the pressure in the bucket would force the
upper tire rim onto the seat, but what about the bottom rim?
>
> JT
>
>
> On 7/28/2016 7:27 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
>> Sorry Gene, This is what I wrote.
>>
>> I've had some luck re-seating stubborn old tires by jacking up the wheel so 
>> there is no weight on it, then if the tire still won't seat, wrap a ratchet 
>> strap around the circumference of the tire and tightening it down until just 
>> before the tread is about to buckle.  This will usually push the tire beads 
>> out enough to get them to start to seal against the rim.  (a bottle of tire 
>> slime put in and smeared on the tire beads would be a good idea as well.)
>>
>> Failing that or if your need more excitement in your life you could always 
>> try the squirt of either trick.
>>
>> Or just throw a tube in it.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Gene Heskett" 
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 12:19:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT Seating Tire Bead
>>
>> On Wednesday 27 July 2016 23:30:21 Todd Zuercher wrote:
>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gene Heskett" 
>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:41:09 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Nother Q about these Chinese inverters
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 27 July 2016 11:26:55 Gene Heskett wrote:
>>>
>>> I got everything hauled to the scene except my clamshell digger.
>>> Plumb wore the old man out. The rider had a flat tire that did NOT
>>> want to re-seat and hold air.  Needs new rear tires, guessing 25 yo &
>>> badly weatherchecked.  And them'er $50/copy.  Sigh.  OTOH, I am still
>>> looking down at the grass. :)
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> Your reply got auto snipped Todd, as it was all below my sig separator!
>>
>> To summerize, I did all of that, but I had to bring my 4 ton rated
>> handyman around to pick it up, and its weight combined with my bad back,
>> collapsed disks, I hurt myself pretty good by the time I actually had
>> air in it again.  A bit of time in the sack, and one of my near beers
>> and I think I can walk back to the kitchen and make some leftover
>> chinese food disappear.
>>
>> Then tonight is put out the trash night, which I did very very carefully.
>>
>> I expect it will be flat again in the morning as my last mowing took me
>> across some rosebush runners which probably perforated it several more
>> times.  I've been considering fresh tires on the back for at least a
>> year as the knobs they used to have for tread are now about 1/16" high
>> and are surrounded by visible carcass threads. I've now replaced both
>> front tires in the last year, for the same reason.  Stems check fine,
>> but the air leaves anyway.
>>
>> Cheers Todd, Gene Heskett
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] EDM with continuous wire?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> I did that, but on importing the pix, intending to put some captions in
> the pix, I found that wilber's text button on the menu doesn't work.

That's odd. What exactly are you doing? GIMP changes around Ithe
location and operation of the common tools, so maybe you are just
trying to use it in the old way that no longer works. I have v.2.8.16,
and text tool is either invoked by keyboard key 't' or mouse command
'Tools/Text'.  You then have to click where you want to place the
text, which opens a square 'target' area, and a tool properties
floating window next to it. Then you start typing your text, and it
should start appearing in the 'target' block.

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[Emc-users] Fedora compile

[Przemek Klosowski]

I just compiled LinuxCNC on a fresh, minimal Fedora installation, and had
to fight the dependencies. Fedora/Redhat aren't covered in LinuxCNC
developer guides, so I thought I'd write it up. I'd be glad to write
something for the website---it wasn't obvious to me how to get about
editing the wiki; could someone point me in the right direction?

Anyway, here are the requirements, to be installed by something like 'yum
install' or 'dnf install':

autoconf
gcc-c++
python-devel

tcl-devel
tk-devel
tclx
bwidget
tkimg-devel
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Re: [Emc-users] Test

[Przemek Klosowski]

I noticed that on other lists, too. I think it has to do with what client
you use, or rather, what headers your client uses in the outgoing
email--but I haven't figured out which are the relevant headers. I am
pretty sure that our emails stilll have "From: youandme@...", but I think
some other field is there and ends up being displayed in preference to the
From:.

I am using Thunderbird (not for this message though). What are you using?

On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 7:59 AM, John Thornton  wrote:

> My replies to the list show up to me as from "EMC Mailing List"
> lately... I wonder what is up with that?
>
> JT
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM novelties

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 9:18 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

>> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.02988v2.pdf
It's an interesting paper: I think they claim some degree of
2-directional relationship between visible geometry and
geometry-generating code, which is interesting.
It's perhaps not as novel as they'd like: OpenSCAD does this type of
thing too, although  it only goes from code to geometry---I don't
think there's a way to manipulate geometry and see changes in code.

>>
>> http://ravichugh.github.io/sketch-n-sketch/releases/v0.4/

I think they had a problem with their website. I wrote to one of the
paper authors, haven't heard back yet. Actually I see that they have a
new release that works:

http://ravichugh.github.io/sketch-n-sketch/releases/v0.4.1/

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD Tweaking

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Thursday 07 January 2016 09:10:23 andy pugh wrote:

>> I am wondering if the 1968 3hp motor was made of bigger horses than
>> the 2015 3hp VFD.
>
> 1 HP, I was always told, will raise a 550 lb weight 1 foot in 1 second.
>
...
> But my gut reaction is that a 2.2kw inverter should translate to about
> 2.5 HP.

1HP = 0.7457 kW, right? close enough to 3/4kW for most applications.

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Re: [Emc-users] Desktops and OS's

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:

>
> > US Postal System shipping labels (via PayPal, via Pitney Bowes, using
> > their Java craplet) is fraught with peril.  Dragons be here!  But who
> > knows?  It might work in Debian... for a week or two.
>
> Does this really surprise anyone??  USPS has a hard time getting mail to
> the right address let alone actually writing code.
>

Well, their Windows software may suck, but on the other hand they were one
of the first US Gov units that deployed a massive Linux infrastructure for
OCRing the address, sorting and routing it. It is an impressive setup.

It's interesting what will happen to them: it's a heavy ship with lots of
difficult and non-technical issues (employees, pensions ,politics and
funding). and the whole model is rapidly becoming obsolete: I would really
like to have my mail spam-filtered because most of the stuff they bring
into my house is junk, while the important stuff is important.

There was a startup that wanted to intercept my mail, and scan it, and
selectively deliver (spam-block most, keep electronic copy of the boring
stuff, and deliver the physically valuable stuff).  I liked the idea but
USPS blocked them, probably because of political considerations.
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Voltage?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:02 AM, John Kasunich 
wrote:

> But of course the speed will be lower.  For example, if it is designed for
> 380V, 240Hz, 14,400RPM,
> the volts-per-hertz ratio is 380/244 = 1.5833.  If the VFD can only
> deliver 208V, then you will be
> limited to 208/1.5833 = 131Hz, and the top speed will be 7860 RPM.  It
> will still deliver rated torque
> at rated current, but since the speed is lower the kW will be lower - only
> about 3.8kW.
>

It's not my specialty so I am trying to go over the numbers
methodically---please check if I am getting it right.
At nominal 380V the thing runs at 6kW6kW * 208/380 and 60*240 Hz, i.e.
14400 rpm. At 208V it should do 208/380*14400, or 7880 rpm, close enough.
But for power, P=omega*T, 6kW * 208/380, or 3.28 kW. amirite?
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Re: [Emc-users] Porting LinuxCNC(EMC) to Windows was CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 11:47 AM, John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> And there in a nutshell is the reason Windows and Macs  outnumber Linux for
> PCs used by almost everyone.  Forcing someone to use the command line
> interface for a graphical user interface application is embedded into the
> brain of the Linux fans as "not a problem".  It is a problem!  A huge one!
>

Windows and Macs are very good at anticipating what you'll need and
providing a convenient GUI to accomplish that. The flip side of this is
that if your need happens not to be anticipated, you're Simply Out of Luck.
There's a nice way of saying this: "easy things are easy, but difficult
things are nigh impossible".
By the way, I use commandline on Windows a lot; pray tell, how to check
your IP address? You can click around in the network drivers trying to
remember how to get them up in this particular version of Windows, or just
hit the Windows key, and type cmd, and ipconfig. In general, I find it much
faster to use the Windows key and type the command (whether it's "word",
"firefox", "device manager", or whatever else), than hunt for the
particular place where this Windows and this user decided to place the
relevant icon. This is the part that people who complain about Windows 8
are missing---it simply doesn't matter that icons keep moving around if you
use the keyboard to say what you want.



> But for the Linux proponent I'm a troglodyte who just hasn't found the
> light
> of the wonders of Linux.
>

No, I do not consider you any of those things---I think people here just
are trying to tell you that you should learn that skill because it will
make you more productive. Maybe you'll even contribute a GUI shortcut for
the things that wre most annoying to you.
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Re: [Emc-users] GutHub getting sneaky? Yes.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:59 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

  CopyRight 2015 GitHub, inc.

 Can you tell us how to reproduce this?

 Print the guthub web page for any project, its apparently in the page
 wrapper they are using.  I have since read the T.O.S., which explicitely
 says thats not the case, however, it appears nervous folks wanting to
 move a project, cannot delete it from github and must fork it to move
 it.  I am not at all comfy with that prospect, Chris.

 They also seem to have forked the gimp project and is trying to make it
 run on windows, and apparently charging a fee to download it although I
 have not personally seen that screen since windows isn't allowed on the
 premisis here, and which is blowing up the gimp-user list with support
 questions that they can only counter by telling folks where to get the
 real thing, for free.

Are you sure you're not confusing GitHub with SourceForge? There was a
recent brouhaha with SF downloads of several projects.


 This is not a tasty turn of events since github changed hands a while
 back.

Yup, that's probably Sourceforge---I don't think GitHub changed
corporate structure, and it's not that old anyway, unlike Sourceforge
which dates back a while.

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Re: [Emc-users] Sandy box

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 5:42 AM, Alexander Rössler mail@roessler.systems wrote:
 No, USB does not work for tablets. At least not for Android tablets. This
 would require root access. However, the next generation Android with the
 automotive interface will probably make this possible even without root
 access.

I am not sure what you're referring to---I did the steps I reported
and it worked on Android 4.2.2.
Perhaps it's the Android X server app that sets up the RNDIS, but it
does work as I described.

 The reason is users complained about LinuxCNC being hard to install (mainly
 because you need a Linux capable computer). With this solution they can use
 wathever OS they prefer. Some reported it even working on Windows Surface
 tablets.

Are you talking about installing LinuxCNC on Windows, and displaying to Surface?
It may work, but don't see the benefit. I have not seen a computer
that is incapable of Linux in a long time; the problem usually is that
people install Linux and find themselves in unfamiliar territory.
However, installing LinuxCNC on Windows, even if it worked, would
probably land them in unfamiliar territory as well; LCNC is not your
typical Windows app.

There are many scenarios for deploying LCNC. Sorry for being Captain
Ovious, but I would recommend one of the following, starting from most
standard/best supported/easiest:

- standard one: x86 PC box, running LCNC, with local display

- like above but with a remote X11 display, either over Ethernet (to a
second PC) or over USB (to a tablet, which I demonstrated in a post)

- embedded LCNC box such as ARM BeagleBone Black (BBB) with a motor
cape, which does not have an integral display, so I recommend a remote
display, same as in the previous case.  BTW, Charlie Steinkuehler and
others work on a LCNC fork called MachineKit that is targeted for
those.

 An additional aspect of the box is that it is extremely portable. When you
 take a look at the UNIMAT machines you see why this a huge plus. They are
 very small and portable. Since it runs also without GUI (detachable) you can
 even work with more than one machine similutaniously.

It's hard to beat BBB for portability; it literally is the size of an
Altoid box (OK, it requires a motor cape so it's a little bigger)

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Re: [Emc-users] Sandy box

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:


 Our (US) aging B-52 fleet was upgraded about a decade back from
 individual wires to just a couple heavy power cables and a few bits of
 coax, to run everything on those geriatric monsters over a network.
 Which bus protocol wasn't mentioned at the time, probably for security
 reasons, but they were sure pleased as punch that the upgrade lightened
 that airplane by 50,000 lbs.

All military and commercial avionics run over standard buses :
MIL-STD-1553 and maybe also ARINC 429. US Military is very much into
standards and believes in Kerckhoff's principle (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs%27s_principle ), ie. no
security by obscurity. They protect information by standard, well
vetted crypto protocols and young men with large guns.

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Re: [Emc-users] Sandy box

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:17 AM, Rafael ra...@linwin.com wrote:

 Good computer architecture includes a backplane, passive or active.
 Digital computers were among the most popular low cost industrial
 computers many years ago. Some used 4 slot backplanes, others more with
 possibility to use expanders for additional interfaces. Some interfaces
 used only part of the bus to save space.

But the parallel backplanes are gone and replaced by serial links,
such as Ethernet or USB. A lot of industrial computers used the ISA
bus, which was 8 MBps, or VME bus which originally was 40 MBps. This
is easily matched and exceeded by common Ethernet links today! and so
much easier to put things together using simple cabling vs limited
capacity backplane boxes.

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Re: [Emc-users] Sandy box

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 Then what exactly is the USB cable being used for?

Connect a USB cable between the tablet and the BBB, and have them talk
to each other by network transport over USB, including doing remote X
protocol to the server on the tablet. I described that couple of weeks
ago in this list.

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Re: [Emc-users] Sandy box

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 Connect a USB cable between the tablet and the BBB, and have them talk
 to each other by network transport over USB, including doing remote X
 protocol to the server on the tablet. I described that couple of weeks
 ago in this list.



 Ah.  Must have missed that post.

So I took an Android 7 tablet (Azpen A700)  that I got for $35 from
MicroCenter, installed   X11 server from the Play Store:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=x.org.serverhl=en

and ran a test program (attached) talking to the X server on the tablet via USB:

DISPLAY=192.168.1.11:0  wish testbuttons.tcl

It runs fine, although the mouse interaction is awkward (have to slide
the cursor to the target first before tapping to click).

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Re: [Emc-users] Crashing atom box

[Przemek Klosowski]

 Biggest problem ATM is the ultra cheap hacksaw blades that came with a
 Dewalt Sawzall.  I have about 150 deck screws around the edges that are
 holding the balister sticks, which need about the inner end 7/8
 removed, and with these blades each one seems to be good for 3, maybe 4
 screws cut off.  So I gotta find some better blades.  Lots better if I
 can find them.  A web search just showed more of these. :(  At the cost
 of the blades, that is about a dollar a screw cut off.  Ouch!


The screws are about the worst thing you can put your blades on: hard and
jagged.

Don't cut them with a blade: they are so hard that you should be able to
snap them off (put them in a vise and whack the extra part off with a
hammer). If they are soft enough  to bend, score them with a grinder and do
a forth-and-back stress fracture.
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Re: [Emc-users] Crashing atom box

[Przemek Klosowski]

Can you boot it into memtest and leave running overnight? memtest stresses
out CPU and memory systems so maybe that would show something.

On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 Well, its crashed 2 more times today, after I took it apart, no convex
 topped caps anyplace, including the PSU, which is an ATX P4 rated at
 300 watts.  Hugely more than that box needs in its wildest dreams. 75
 watts would spin it all without breaking a sweat.

 I thought perhaps I had found it when I attempted to remove what looked
 like a hair about 3 long, wedged between the motherboard and the PS-2
 connectors, but which on closer examination, was actually a steel
 shaving about the size of a hair but flattened, I assume from the punch
 presses work on stamping out the chassis.

 But removing it made no diff, so when it crashed while I was editing a
 program to carve the outside of the taperlock bushing, I said screw it,
 called Directron in Texas where I had purchased it, but they were unable
 to identify it.  I did find a supply that looked like it would fit, so I
 popped over to amazon  its on the way for 26 bucks.  If that doesn't
 fix it, what is the next best mobo to put in this mini-atx P4 shoebox?

 This one was one of the D-525MW boards.

 Cheers, Gene Heskett
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[Emc-users] Fwd: [beagleboard] [OT]: In search of an HDMI portable monitor for my BBB

[Przemek Klosowski]

I've been trying to figure out how to use an android tablet over USB as a
remote display+touchscreen input, for instance as a DRO.  There are 7
tablets costing under $40, e.g. Azpen A700 that was widely available at
MicroCenter, so this is a cool and inexpensive possibility.

On the tablet, I installed X11 server app from the Play Store:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=x.org.serverhl=en

and ran a test program (attached) on the main PC talking to the X server on
the tablet via USB:

DISPLAY=192.168.1.11:0  wish testbuttons.tcl

It runs fine, although the mouse interaction is awkward (have to slide the
cursor to the target first before tapping to click).


testbuttons.tcl
Description: Tcl script
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Re: [Emc-users] kcalc in our distro's question

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:


 At some time in the past, I recall having a version of kcalc that had a
 menu of conversion utilities, such as inch/metric  vice versa.


I really recommend the 'units' program. It's very basic, commandline
program but it has an amazing built-in collection of units. The neat thing
about units is that it parses the expressions, so you can just write
expressions mixing and matching units at will.
For instance, I calculate the body mass index (BMI) which is given in
kg/m^2 thusly:

 units '182 lb / (185 cm)^2' kg/m2

Interestingly, there's a 'units' Android app that I use all the time, and
even more curiously, 'units' is built-in into main Google search window.
The same example can be calculated by Google by entering the above as the
search string:

182 lb / (185 cm)^2 in kg/m2

I had another example of it, when I was calculating the parameters of my
torque wrench, deltaX = T L^2 / (3 E I), and entered this into Google:

 150 lbf ft (429mm)^2/(3 * 210 GPa (pi/4) (12.4mm/2)^4) , in mm
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Re: [Emc-users] VFD causing limits to trip. Huh?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote:
 Steve,
 this is a good description of noise reduction by shielding. To make it
 more exact, the shield should be grounded at the end where the lower
 impedance is, mostly the signal source.

This is opposite to what Steve said, which was to ground near the
signals are consumed, which makes more sense to me because shield
potentials, if any, have smaller chance of leaking through to the
signal wires.
From the impedance point of view, I would also worry more about
interference near high-impedance nodes rather than low-impedance
nodes, just because smal currents result in larger voltages there.

Can you summarize the rationale for your recommendation in the
language of electromagnetics?

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Re: [Emc-users] new motherboard doa, twice

[Przemek Klosowski]

Two bad motherboards are less likely than one bad DIMM. Yes, you
wouldn't get video if the memory was bad---without memory, the system
probably runs a limited amount of code from BIOS ROM, and stops trying
to test and use memory, before initializing the video subsystem.
Since memory costs around 10$/GB, I'd definitely try getting whatever
DIMM ASROCK recommends and test with that.

On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 1:00 PM,  kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sun, 14 Dec 2014, Peter C. Wallace wrote:

 On Sun, 14 Dec 2014, kqt4a...@gmail.com wrote:

 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:44:08 -0600 (CST)
 From: kqt4a...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] new motherboard doa, twice

 I ordered a ASRock G1900M Pro3. When I power it up I get nothing. Not a
 flicker. A friend had a 4GB memory stick that he let me have, G.Skill
 F3-1600C11S-4GNS. I asked ASRock if this memory would work and they said
 yes. If I remove the memory the board beeps 3 times pauses and repeats.
 The power supply was running another board ok. I hooked the monitor and
 cable to another computer and it is ok. I have the monitor hooked up to
 the vga port. I returned the board and they sent another and it does the
 same thing. I preferred this board because of the pci slots. What do you
 think? Should I return it for a refund or swap it for another. It cost
 about $14.00 to send it back.

 Richard


 I guess I would start to suspect that you free RAM was bad...


 He pulled  it from a running system. He wanted to get bigger sticks. Even
 without memory should not I get a video signal? Monitor reports no vga
 signal. I think I am just screwed.

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Re: [Emc-users] VFD trouble

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:04 PM,  p...@wpnet.us wrote:
 Put a circuit breaker in line to each motor.

I think this is bad advice---VFDs react badly to interruption in the
VFD-motor circuit, especially at high currents. You should rely on
VFD's current limits instead.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone Have Code to Print This?

[Przemek Klosowski]

The trick with rocket engines is to prevent them from burning themselves up
while burning the maximum amount of fuel. Therefore, it's a complicated
fluid dynamics/thermal management problem, with fuel lines cooling the
combustion/expansion chamber, turbo pumps working against pipe and flame
back pressure, etc.


On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za
wrote:

 I was gonna say that all those pipes. What the hell could they all do?

 On 2014-07-17 20:48, Marcus Bowman wrote:
  No; but I wouldn't mind a shot at the CNC pipe bender they used...
 
  Marcus
 
  On 17 Jul 2014, at 19:24, Kirk Wallace wrote:
 
  http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/14-179_rs_25_installation_0.jpg
 
 http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/july/nasa-begins-engine-test-project-for-space-launch-system-rocket/
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 QQ 1767394877



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Re: [Emc-users] disk block size?

[Przemek Klosowski]

Around 2TB there's YET ANOTHER ONE stupid software disk size limitation
that maybe prevents your BIOS/motherboard combination from seeing your new
drive.  It may or may not use 4192 byte sectors:  Toshiba website is really
skimpy on manuals so I can't figure out how to locate this info even if you
did provide the model number. If you could boot something from CDROM or
flash drive, just use the smartctl command to find the sector info

smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl 6.2 2013-07-26 r3841 [x86_64-linux-3.14.9-200.fc20.x86_64] (local
build)
Copyright (C) 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===

Sector Size:  512 bytes logical/physical
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Re: [Emc-users] Help requested - stepper drivers.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Claude Froidevaux men...@bluewin.ch
wrote:


 to get en estimate of needed voltage:

 get the speed you need in rad/s  (1t/s -- 6.28 rad/s)
 multiply by the torque in Nm

 this will give you the output power of motor at max speed.

 then, as you know the current inside the motor, you can deduce minimal
 needed voltage to get the same power (plus additional waste)

 for example:

 stepper:
 4Nm, 4.2A

 need 1000rpm (5 m/min with 5mm leadscrew)

 power @ max speed and max torque: 1000/60*2*pi * 4 = 104 W

 P = U *I -- 104 / 4.2 = 25 -- we need at least 25V, but this is
 without taking any loss in accout (resistance, drive, sinus factor,
 ...). Doubling this value will get you something that shall do the
 tricks! (so 50V needed at least)

 this is a really rough calculation, but it help a lot to know what is
 needed.


Sorry if I am making a simple mistake (I plead lack of sleep today) but
isn't 4 * 2 pi 1000/60 equal to 419? More importantly, as you indicate that
formula is flawed,  because usually the max torque requirement is usually
at low speeds, when you accelerate the axis. Of course the stepper motors
lose torque at max speed, so the above formula is just a ballpark estimate;
true V estimate should take into account  the motor's Back-EMF (kV)
characteristics, I believe.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: need some advice

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 4:47 AM, Viesturs Lācis
viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 Current 3D model looks like this:
 http://picpaste.com/model-XeiYl0y4.PNG

 I do not really agree that cutting both sides at once is more complicated.
 Having 2 jointers and then feeder system for both of them and also some
 mechanism, which would rebase boards from one side to another between
 jointers - that seems too complicated for me.

One advantage of cutting both sides is that it guarantees the
parallellism of both sides even if the input board is not quite
rectangular.

If the boards can be assumed to have parallel sides, how about two
fences on the entrance, one fixed and one attached to the movable
spindle. The movable fence is driven by a weak stepper or even a
spring, and the cycle consists of retracting the movable fence, and
starting it back when the entering board is detected. When the fence
makes the contact with the board, it stalls; the board is processed
and when it leaves the machine the cycle restarts.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: need some advice

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Viesturs Lācis
viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
 2014-05-13 21:40 GMT+03:00 Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu:

 It seems to me what you really want is a jointer.  You
 are just planing down the edge of a board of variable
 width, correct?  That is what a jointer is for.


 Pretty much yes, except that board widths will randomly change from 80 to
 300 mm and AFAIK none of the existing solutions can handle that.

His point is that you are making this complicated by trying to cut
both sides at once. A jointer presses the board against a fence and
cuts that side; you could then have another jointer down the line
where  other side of the board is pressed against the fence on the
other side and the matching profile is cut.

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Re: [Emc-users] Yet another board possibly suitable for LCNC.

[Przemek Klosowski]

Their FAQ ( http://www.intel.com/support/galileo/faq.htm ) has this
dispiriting news:

What is the maximum rate at which GPIO output pins can be updated?

The GPIO output pins on Intel® Galileo are provided by an I2C Port
Expander that is running at standard mode (100 kHz). Each I2C request
to update a GPIO requires approximately 2ms. In addition to software
overhead, this restricts the frequency achievable on the GPIO outputs
to approximately 230 Hz.

This is significantly slower than the BBB PRU GPIO  :(
I imagine this will probably be mitigated by parallel port- or
PCI-connected FPGA boards, but still...

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote:
 The Intel Galileo, with Mini PCIe slot and Arduino shield pin headers.
 400Mhz Quark SoC with 256MB RAM etc. Programmable with the standard
 Arduino IDE, is running Yocto Linux so that should be changeable.

 http://hackaday.com/2013/10/03/the-intel-powered-arduino/

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Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP? Latency?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 1:06 PM, John Morris j...@zultron.com wrote:

 Best of all is to use a dedicated NIC and crossover cable for each device.

Practically all modern network cards have polarity autonegotiation
Auto-MDIX. I think this is at hardware level.

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Re: [Emc-users] Planning phase for new machine, need decision support

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Don Stanley dstanley1...@gmail.com wrote:
 Most stepper controllers have idle torque.
 Some will have full torque at idle (stopped).
 Most modern stepper controllers will have a selectable
 idle torque and some will wait a few seconds
 before switching from run torque to idle torque.

You missed Stephen's point---yes, there's a holding current going
through the stepper coils, but in the middle of the step the torque is
zero. In other words, the stepper motor holds the position by having
local maxima of holding torque at half step ahead and after the
desired position.
There's no closed loop like in a servo, where you can increase the
precision by increasing the resolver resolution and/or the gain.

Don't get me wrong---I actually like steppers, because they are simple
and reliable, and accurate enough if engineered properly by matching
their inherent accuracy to the desired movement precision. It's just
that we have to understand their limitations.

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Re: [Emc-users] Planning phase for new machine, need decision support

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com wrote:
 Something to remember w/ steppers is that they produce no torque at rest.

Here's what you have to remember about steppers: Zero torque at zero
speed, and zero torque at maximum speed :)

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Re: [Emc-users] Shizuoka on eBay

[Przemek Klosowski]

same guy has a nice Clausing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLAUSING-LATHE/300927639837?ssPageName=WDVWrd=1ih=020category=104241cmd=ViewItem

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 6:45 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 5 July 2013 23:38, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote:
 In case someone forgot to buy this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/290928102085

 Following links: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sigma-Milling-Machine/300925762230
 Looks seriously under-bid to me. That's one stiff looking mill.


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Re: [Emc-users] ubu 10.04.4 LTS Q

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote:

 My experience is that, in general, 64 bit makes things slower on the
 same hardware.  I was going to try to run 64bit on my new machine and
 decided 32 was good enough.  Maybe when it's easier, I'll switch

Well, 64-bit mode also enables other architecture improvements, mostly
more and bigger registers. This is of course partly offset by more
data movement due to longer pointers. Usually people quote 5-10% speed
increase for 64-bit applications on a 64-bit platform vs. 32-bits.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: PCB design help.

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 7:43 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 1 July 2013 12:19, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 He needs help to design a PCB, he's running everything on a
 proto-board at the moment. Could someone with the knowledge and
 programs for PCB design give him a hand?

 He appears to be using a Mac, so probably needs to choose between
 Eagle and gEDA

Kicad seems to work on Macs:
http://www.kicad-pcb.org/display/KICAD/Mac+OS+X

By the way, DYI EFI seems to be a lively community, and the following
project may actually have LM1815 footprint macro already
http://forum.diyefi.org/viewtopic.php?f=60t=333sid=79bb8b5620aa1e275f83db83d949ba21start=0

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Re: [Emc-users] Brain-Dead LinuxCNC G-Code Interface?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 Any control computer in a nuke facility really should be rad hard, so that
 it can continue to function right up to within a millisecond of being a
 glow in the dark crater in the ground.  Those PDP-11's aren't.

I don't know of computers running a realtime control loop of a nuke
facility, but I've been running data acquisition in such ever since I
was a baby. I started on a PDP, then used a VAX and now it's
wall-to-wall Linux PCs. We do see single-bit upsets and account for
them, but the rate is measured in microHertz. If the radiation is low
enough so that you can sit a person there, you can sit a computer.
This by the way is a huge challenge for space travel: outside of LEO
the radiation levels are nasty and affect heavily both people and
electronics.

Funny enough, the old semiconductor technology had large cell areas
and charges, which gave it relative immunity to charge deposition
caused by ionization events. The newer technology shrunk the feature
size and unit charges, but  it turns out that smaller size makes it
harder to hit an individual cell, and also apparently there's more
ECC-style error correction in the data paths of the more modern
designs, so the bottom line seems to be that the radiation sensitivity
did not increase by much.

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Re: [Emc-users] Brain-Dead LinuxCNC G-Code Interface?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote:


 Pointless, petty, regulatory BS like that, which has zero bearing on the safe 
 operation of the facility is why the control rooms of nuclear power plants 
 still look like they're 30 to 40 years old - because they are 30 to 40 years 
 old.

 Modernization and upgrading not allowed, thanks mostly to the green people.

I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion; it's simply not true.
You are correct that this stuff is highly regulated, though---once a
plant is licensed for something like 20 years, it's fairly difficult,
albeit not impossible, to make changes because it requires proving
that the modifications are safe. If it was economically favorable,
people would go through the process, otherwise they leave it alone.

 What contributed a lot to the problems at Three Mile Island was the light 
 indicating the core vessel pressure valve was open was across the room from 
 where the operators were gathered, looking at the gauges and trying to figure 
 out WTF the temperature kept going up and the pressure kept dropping despite 
 all the water they were pouring into the core. Someone finally noticed the 
 light and hit the manual close button. Problem ended - except for the 
 politics that have kept the reactor from being cleaned up and rebuilt these 
 past 34 years.

Problem ended, except for the small problem of melting the fuel
elements. There was no radiation release thanks to the containment
vessel holding up, but inside it was a mess.

What do you mean that the reactor not cleaned up? The damaged unit TM2
was declared un-salvageable after few billion dollars of cleanup, but
the sister unit TM1 is in operation. Come on, this isn't hard, let me
Google it for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

 It's not just nuclear plants afflicted with this regulatory stupidity. Old 
 coal, oil and gas burning ones are too. George Bush the 2nd tried for eight 
 years to get changes passed that would allow old power plants to be updated 
 with whatever pollution reduction was *practical*. The greens blocked it 
 every time, demanding that the only way any upgrades would be allowed would 
 be bringing them up to current regulations - which would mean tearing them 
 down then spending 20+ years trying to get past their blockade to build new 
 ones.

This is highly debatable. There's an alternative view, to which I
subscribe, namely that GB2's administration was dominated by
old-energy lobby and spent 8 years trying to gut the regulations that
I personally credit for the nice state of our environment. When they
succeeded, like in the deregulation of oil and chemical industry, the
results were predictable (explosions at the Horizon platform, and
fertilizer plant in Waco).

 I wouldn't mind having a nuclear power plant, built with the latest 
 technology, close to me. The problem is in the USA they're having to start 
 with a baseline that's 34 years old then trying to get the bureaucrats to 
 approve modern designs. Nuclear power CAN be inexpensive and super safe (it 
 actually *is* safe, the number of death causing reactor incidents can be 
 counted on the fingers of one hand that's missing 2 or 3 fingers*) but only 
 if it's not constantly beset by people determined to make it expensive just 
 so they can claim it's expensive and thus shouldn't be used.

We're in agreement here, but the large part of the reason why nukes
aren't being built is not the regulation of the plants, but the abject
failure to solve the waste storage problem, and the fact that natural
gas is just too cheap an alternative.

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Re: [Emc-users] Anyone seen a failure like this?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
 File system check claims the disks are fine.  SMART shows 5 reallocated 
 sectors and everything is good.

No, it's not. First of all, check if you have Current Pending
sectors---those are ones that were written to but can't be read back,
so they can't be retired/reallocated. The firmware recovery for this
condition usually takes a long time (firmware retries, recalibrates,
etc), and OS recovery may be flaky. If you have CPS, you need to find
the sectors and overwrite them, which will allow reallocation.

Furthermore, Google did a study (
http://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf ) showing that
reallocated sectors are a significant future failure predictors, so
replace that baby while you can.

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Re: [Emc-users] recommendations on stepper driver power supply?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:32 AM, doug metzler doug.metz...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thanks for the advice - I did order the antek, so I can compare it to the
 switcher side-by-side.  My main problem is actually with RF interference
 from the stepper driver feeding back into the controller and confusing it.
 A couple of caps on the step and direction lines cleaned it up but that's a
 pretty iffy fix for a production run.


There's another problem with switcher power supplies: some really dislike
sinking current, even momentarily. THis unfortunately happens sometimes
when you drive switched inductive loads such as motors.
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Charles Steinkuehler 
char...@steinkuehler.net wrote:

 The PRU can do a great job with step/dir generation.  Anything that
 has encoders should really be running with FPGA hardware and something
 like the Mesa boards.


Why do you  say so? PRU is running at 200MHz and can read and write GPIO
every 5ns. I think that's close to what the FPGA is capable of. Of course
FPGA can then process these in  parallel using independent hardware units,
but still.


 I was just trying to point out that ARM parts and boards are available
 that more directly compete with the traditional Atom motherboards
 currently popular here (including conventional PCI/PCIe expansion slots!).


As far as I can see, PCI/PCIe is the only differentiating factor, unless
you imply that Atom-class means better quality, or better noise immunity
etc. Low power should not be a big deal---after all, LinuxCNC is likely to
drive electric motors rated in kiloWatts.
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Re: [Emc-users] Olinuxino/Beagleboard/bone, Xenomai, SPI?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:24 AM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.atwrote:

 The 5ns is 'on paper'; since there's more involved than a CPU cycle - the
 bit takes a bit of time to work through to/from the pin , the actual
 figures are slower

 Charles has done the mother of all homework on this, see here:
 http://tinyurl.com/oql9uqo (from what I've seen so far, that's the most
 thorough assessment of PRU I/O timing outside of TI ;)


Thank you for the lesson---it's a good pain when one's ignorance gets
smacked and this group is well staffed for such treatment :)
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Re: [Emc-users] Superglue, or Loc-tite for that motors flywheel?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:


 So it looks like I need to design a 10 amp constant current load, switch
 mode of course.


Perhaps something simpler? I have  a sinking feeling that the electronics
wizards will soon hand me my head on the platter but I think that the
following circuit might work as a current load: it sets up a lousy voltage
reference and uses it to trickle enough current into the base of a
Darlington pair to drive the desired current through the load.
attachment: currentLoad.png--
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT} 200mpg car (Was: converting Monarch 10EE)

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Ben Potter b...@bpuk.org wrote:

 I clearly hadn't had my morning cuppa when I sat down with that lot -
since
 the frontal area is wrong too. 0.79 is closer and gives 77% efficiency
 required for a US 200 mpg. The original would be a reasonable for a bus.

Well, not quite: 2 m2 is a typical number for sedans, and 3m2 is a typical
minivan:
 http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List

The smallest production cars seems to be Porche 914 and  Mazda
Miata---Miata electric conversion is apparently popular due to the
advantageous mechanical layout, and here we have another reason why it's a
smart idea.

Having said that, it's Cd*A that counts, and not surprisingly the best CdA
numbers are from experimentals like Volkswagen Concept (.15 [m2]), Aptera
(.28) and GM EV1 (.37). Best production cars start just short of .5 (Honda
Insight , CRX), with the typical numbers between .55, and .7


 
aerodynamicDrag(CdA)stats-productionCars.pnghttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/undefined
The rear is dishonourably brought up by Dodge RAM (1.7) and Mercedes
G-class (1.56) :)
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT} 200mpg car (Was: converting Monarch 10EE)

[Przemek Klosowski]

Sorry, meant to show this pic


On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 7:03 AM, Przemek Klosowski 
przemek.klosow...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Ben Potter b...@bpuk.org wrote:

  I clearly hadn't had my morning cuppa when I sat down with that lot -
 since
  the frontal area is wrong too. 0.79 is closer and gives 77% efficiency
  required for a US 200 mpg. The original would be a reasonable for a bus.

 Well, not quite: 2 m2 is a typical number for sedans, and 3m2 is a typical
 minivan:
  http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Vehicle_Coefficient_of_Drag_List

 The smallest production cars seems to be Porche 914 and  Mazda
 Miata---Miata electric conversion is apparently popular due to the
 advantageous mechanical layout, and here we have another reason why it's a
 smart idea.

 Having said that, it's Cd*A that counts, and not surprisingly the best CdA
 numbers are from experimentals like Volkswagen Concept (.15 [m2]), Aptera
 (.28) and GM EV1 (.37). Best production cars start just short of .5 (Honda
 Insight , CRX), with the typical numbers between .55, and .7


  
 aerodynamicDrag(CdA)stats-productionCars.pnghttps://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/undefined
 The rear is dishonourably brought up by Dodge RAM (1.7) and Mercedes
 G-class (1.56) :)

attachment: aerodynamicDrag(CdA)stats-productionCars.png--
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT} 200mpg car (Was: converting Monarch 10EE)

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Ben Potter b...@bpuk.org wrote:
 Only consider rolling resistance and air resistance. Also assume constant
 velocity. Take a fairly typical car - Frontal area around 3 m2; Cd of 0.33;
 mass of 1200 kg; Urr of 0.015 (possibly a bit high these days, pretend it's
 constant). Since it's diesel let's call fuel energy 35.8 MJ/L.

 At 70 mph 200 mp(imp)g needs an engine efficiency of ~62%. If you prefer
 mp(US)g then you need an engine efficiency of ~74%
 At 55 mph you're talking ~44% and ~52%

Thanks for suggesting these interesting calculations, but I get
slightly different results.
Not a lot different, but we're arguing over fairly fine differences in
already advanced technology so ten percent here and there and pretty
soon we're talking a difference between workable and thermodynamically
impossible.

First, we're using   1/2 rho A Cd v^2   and   m g Urr   for air and
rolling resistance, right?
Then, diesel is usually quoted at 37-38 MJ/l while gas is 32-35
MJ/l---your 35.8 looks like an average??
I use STP air density at 1.17 kg/m3 and US gallons, and plug
everything into my favorite 'units' program:

((1/2) (1.17 kg/m3) 3m2 .33 (70 mph)^2 + 1200 kgf .015) 200 mpg / (37.5 MJ/l)

to get the ratio between required energy to maintain the speed, and
energy from fuel.  Apparently 200 mpg would require 169% efficiency.
A 200mpg vehicle with your mechanical parameters can only do at most
48 mph even if it had a 100% efficient engine; given  a realistic
efficiency, we're talking 25mph max speed.

Please look over those numbers and let me know if I'm off base here.

Greetings

Przemek

 I'm for responsible gun ownership, with three requirements:
training, license and insurance

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