Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-08 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Apr 8, 2015, at 6:36 AM, tomw via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Nothing in his lab's list of peer-reviewed publications on this topic: http://dailab.stanford.edu/pubs.htm My friend was able to get me a copy of the Nature article. The short version...is that I won't be replicating their

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-08 Thread tomw via EV
Nothing in his lab's list of peer-reviewed publications on this topic: http://dailab.stanford.edu/pubs.htm -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-Aluminum-battery-from-Stanford-tp4674840p4674876.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle

[EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to conventional batteries

2015-04-07 Thread Ben Goren via EV
Does anybody know any more about this research? http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.html Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte. It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at all about capacity. They

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to conventional batteries

2015-04-07 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV
It sure looks interesting, more information here: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature14340.html If I did the math correctly it seems like it's in the 120-140 wh/kg range. Certainly usable for EVs. Hopefully it makes it out of the lab. On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:11 PM,

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Ben Goren via EV
Indeed...I just checked the abstract and it cites 70 mAh/g. It's an unfair comparison because of all the extra hardware from the box and what-not, but a CALB 180 Ah battery weighs 5.6 kg, which works out to 32 mAh/g. That they're in the same order of magnitude tells me this may well be

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Bill Dennis via EV
; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford You may be confusing power and energy On Apr 7, 2015 2:59 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per kilogram compared to lithium's 100

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
is prohibited. -Original Message- From: Ben Goren [mailto:b...@trumpetpower.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:40 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford If I have the back of the envelope right...if you make 100g

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Peter Gabrielsson via EV
. That might get better as they improve the cells, of course. Bill -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
Gabrielsson peter.gabriels...@gmail.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 07-Apr-15 3:12:55 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford Indeed...I just checked the abstract and it cites 70 mAh/g. It's an unfair comparison because of all the extra hardware from the box

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Bill Dennis via EV
to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density. Bill -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 4:29 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford Actually, the Nature

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Bill Dennis via EV
[mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative to conventional batteries Does anybody know any more about this research? http

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 2:59 PM To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford Who do you trust - Nature or this gatget article that has no clue that electricity is not stored in Watts but in Watt hours... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 7 Apr 2015 at 16:34, Bill Dennis via EV wrote: Here's the URL to the article I quoted, plus the paragraph from the article itself: I see the problem. Not your fault, though perhaps you might have been more skeptical. ;-) It looks like the news release's writer was either carelss or

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:44 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford Ben, the electrolyte is not specified other than the phrase intercalation of chloroaluminate anions in the graphite Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Apr 7, 2015, at 3:44 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: the electrolyte is not specified other than the phrase intercalation of chloroaluminate anions in the graphite I see that in the abstract...is that what you're referring to, or do you have the full article? I've

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 7 Apr 2015 at 15:59, Bill Dennis via EV wrote: Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density You can't compare Watts/kg with Watt-hours/kg. That's like comparing horsepower to gallons. David Roden -

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:34 PM To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford Here's the URL to the article I quoted

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Bill Dennis via EV
[mailto:peter.gabriels...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 4:03 PM To: Bill Dennis; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford You may be confusing power and energy On Apr 7, 2015 2:59 PM, Bill Dennis via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Their current

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
battery from Stanford On Apr 7, 2015, at 3:44 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: the electrolyte is not specified other than the phrase intercalation of chloroaluminate anions in the graphite I see that in the abstract...is that what you're referring to, or do you have the full

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Apr 7, 2015, at 4:57 PM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Your needs may differ but, for me, unequivocally the charge time is more important. I'm not discounting the importance of charge time. It's just my understanding that the batteries today aren't the limiting factor in

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Bill Dennis via EV
Cor wrote: Who do you trust... http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/04/flexible-aluminum-battery-charges-fas t-stable-for-over-7000-cycles/ -- But the fact that aluminum atoms only transferred a single electron when they transited to the cathode is really not taking full advantage of

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On Apr 7, 2015, at 4:25 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Time will tell if we soon will have a 1-minute rechargeable battery ...and a 1-minute *dischargeable* battery. That's probably an even bigger deal than the charge time. Right now, charging times seem to be

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:53 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford I do not have a Nature subscription but I looked at the abstract again and noticed the pictures

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Ben Goren via EV
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford I do not have a Nature subscription but I looked at the abstract again and noticed the pictures underneath. Click on the first one, it shows the chemical formulas for the operation of the cell Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Cor van de Water via EV
is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 4:10 PM To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford Cor wrote: Who do you trust... http

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Peri Hartman via EV
-- From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Cor van de Water cwa...@proxim.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 07-Apr-15 4:50:26 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford On Apr 7, 2015, at 4:25 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Time

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread Bill Dennis via EV
David wrote: ...though perhaps you might have been more skeptical. ;-) David, Typical aluminum-air cells have a power density of around 60-70 W/kg, so 40 W/kg didn't seem out of line. To the contrary, it's the 3000 W/kg number that seems awfully high. Bill

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford

2015-04-07 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 7 Apr 2015 at 16:50, Ben Goren via EV wrote: and a 1-minute *dischargeable* battery. That's probably an even bigger deal than the charge time. The only person I can imagine who might think that a one-minute discharge is a big deal is a drag racer. The rest of us generally want to drive