- the stupid idea that wont die...
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Ben Goren via EV
ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
On Mar 17, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Lee Hart via EV
ev@lists.evdl.orgmailto:ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
However, fork lift batteries cost many thousands of dollars
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
On Mar 17, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
However, fork lift batteries cost many thousands of dollars. And they
weigh many times more than an EV pack. And yet they *do* routinely swap
them
On 13 Mar 2015 at 13:57, Larry Gales via EV wrote:
you don't need to have all manufacturers adhere to a common standard
(though that would be nice), but a major manufacturer such as Tesla
could have their on swap stations that serve their own type of
vehicles.
Sorry, I have to disagree. I
-- Original Message --
From: Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 17-Mar-15 10:54:18 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
EVDL Administrator via EVev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Can you imagine what refueling
Jorg Brown wrote:
Fundamentally the problem is economics: in a car you have a $100
tank that you're filling up with $50 of fuel. But in an EV, you
have a $40,000 pack that you're filling up with $5 of fuel.
Ben Goren via EV wrote:
That's...that's an excellent observation that puts it in a
A long time ago, I ate dinner with Martin Eberhard, and the subject of
battery swap came up. He was incredibly dismissive of the idea. He said the
first problem is safety: to pass the required safety standards, you've got
to attach the pack very, very firmly - a problem you don't have with things
On Mar 17, 2015, at 3:21 PM, Jorg Brown via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Fundamentally the problem is economics: in a car you have a $100 tank
that you're filling up with $50 of fuel. But in an EV, you have a $40,000
pack that you're filling up with $5 of fuel.
That's...that's an excellent
On Mar 17, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Lee Hart via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
However, fork lift batteries cost many thousands of dollars. And they weigh
many times more than an EV pack. And yet they *do* routinely swap them anyway.
Yes and no.
The owners of the forklifts and the batteries swap the
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Jorg Brown jorg.br...@gmail.com wrote:
A long time ago, I ate dinner with Martin Eberhard, and the subject of
battery swap came up. He was incredibly dismissive of the idea. He said the
first problem is safety: to pass the required safety standards, you've got
Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 17-Mar-15 10:54:18 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
EVDL Administrator via EVev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Can you imagine what refueling your ICEV would be like today if a
time
traveler to 1900 accidentally stepped
On Mar 17, 2015, at 1:23 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
On 13 Mar 2015 at 13:57, Larry Gales via EV wrote:
you don't need to have all manufacturers adhere to a common standard
(though that would be nice), but a major manufacturer such as Tesla
could have their
EVDL Administrator via EVev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Can you imagine what refueling your ICEV would be like today if a time
traveler to 1900 accidentally stepped on a butterfly, and today, every car
made required a different blend of fuel?
I agree. The last thing that consumers want is to grant
I think perspective will change as batteries begin needing replacement.
I also think that there are a number of different possible business models for
how a swap might work, including some that we haven't thought of yet.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 17, 2015, at 7:05 PM, Ben Goren via EV
Market cap, particularly in the case of Tesla, has nothing to do with whether
or not they are a major manufacturer.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 14, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Larry Gales via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Well, the market capitalization of Tesla is 24 Billion, so I would consider
Actually, any major player can make a bad misstep or two and fail entirely.
How many banks and auto manufacturers survived the last decade only because of
government bailouts?
I agree that Tesla is more risky than GM or Ford, but they appear to be on a
path that could have people in 50 years
Is that valuation well deserved?
There is a difference between what a business is, and what the market will
pay for shares in it. I am more or less quoting Elon Musk when I say it.
He is well aware that the number of cars they make is nearly
insignificant. And, Tesla can have a bad misstep or
Really, home charging is the best idea of all. I think the swap is mostly
eyewash for people used to having to go out for their fuel. That and for
long voyages.
There are some advantages to leasing packs - put their care and feeding
more in the hands of the manufacturer.
I can imagine tow
Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via
EV
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 1:33 PM
To: Dan Baker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Really, home charging is the best idea of all. I think
behavior.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via
EV
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 1:33 PM
To: Dan Baker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Really, home
That's a pretty impressive video. Maybe they can build the robotics for
the home user so the plug can find the charge port by itself... :-)
Seriously in the future this technology will be needed when EV use becomes
dominant. If you spent any time around a busy gas station on a Thursday
evening
:33 PM
To: Dan Baker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Really, home charging is the best idea of all. I think the swap is mostly
eyewash for people used to having to go out for their fuel. That and for
long voyages
Tesla is hardly a major manufacturer, but others qualify. They do think
big though. Maybe someday.
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Larry Gales via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:
For both leasing and battery swap to be practical, you don't need to have
all manufacturers adhere to a common
For both leasing and battery swap to be practical, you don't need to have
all manufacturers adhere to a common standard (though that would be nice),
but a major manufacturer such as Tesla could have their on swap stations
that serve their own type of vehicles.
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 5:44 PM,
.
Bob
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via
EV
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 1:33 PM
To: Dan Baker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Swap - the stupid idea that wont die...
Really, home charging is the best
On 13 Mar 2015 at 0:46, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
sounds like you haven't seen the ...Tesla battery swap.
I hadn't, but now I have. Impressive! ;-)
And (from what he's saying) that's with the battery bolted in place, rather
than using some kind of quick-snug fasteners.
If only Tesla's
Dave, It sounds like you haven't seen the video of EM demonstrating the
Tesla battery swap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_XEv2f_Uhw
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 8:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
As I see it, the model for successful battery exchange in EVs is the
That feature was designed in by foresight, because it could be. I don't
think EM ever had it in mind as a broadly useful function. I have heard
him pooh pooh it before. The CA legislature forced the issue. If they had
done right they would have simply made Tesla eligible since they were going
Actually, I have thought that battery swapping might make sense if you
simply lease the use of a battery, rather than own it. As long as the
batteries owned by a company remain within spec, say 90%, then it does not
matter what battery you have. You simply can forget about the battery, and
on
I always wondered why someone as smart as Tesla would stoop to the
stupidest idea ever (battery swapping) for highway EV’s. Surely they
understood EV’s enough to know that EV’s generally charge while parked, not
while in use. But then Superchargers make it possible for distant
convenient travel…
As I see it, the model for successful battery exchange in EVs is the lowly
flashlight (torch). The cells come in 4 basic sizes, with two of these most
commonly used (AA and D). Effectively, you have 2 or maybe 4 tiers of
energy content and power capacity; then, within each tier, you use more
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