cussion List
>
> Sent: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 17:29:45 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall> ?More range or lower
> 100mi EV cost?
>
>> Bob Bruning a is a great evangelist for 110v, L1 charging at work using
>> existing 20 amp >circuits. W
- Original Message -
From: via EV winfield...@yahoo.com
To: Willie2 , Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Sent: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 17:29:45 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall> ?More range or lower 100mi
EV cost?
>Bob Bruning a is a great evangelist fo
List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall> ?More range or
lower
100mi EV cost?
On 08/29/2014 08:38 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> The goal is to stop burning fossil fuel for everyday local commuting
> which can be done better/cheaper/and more conveniently (nev
Because 40kwh and 60kwh use the same pack. Just apparently software constrained.
Original message From: Martin WINLOW via EV
Date:08/29/2014 7:54 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Willie2 ,EVDL Post Message
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices
fall> ?More range or lo
Ben Goren via EV wrote:
Obviously, a car that's superior (and actually used) for 85% of driving should
be considered the primary car -- even if such a car generally isn't an option
as the only car for a single-car family.
That's generally how I've been using my EVs for 30+ years. It's my
prima
I wonder how many could have bypassed using a car altogether, and ridden a bike
or taken a bus.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 29, 2014, at 9:14 PM, Dennis Miles wrote:
>
> 85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also,
> 99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles ,
> leaving only
85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also,
99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles ,
leaving only 1% of trip miles being over 100 miles.
Less than one percent of trips are over 100 miles.
That suggests that three trips per year are over 100 miles. Not having
the original sou
Some places are quite good and quick, but they are company and location
dependent.
I can tell you horror stories about reserved cars not being there, about
meetings missed or late because I tried renting a car for one part of a day, so
I could avoid using an ICE.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug
On Aug 29, 2014, at 4:32 PM, Jamie K via EV wrote:
> I'll just quibble somewhat with your conclusion below about BEVs as a "second
> car."
Excellent point. Obviously, a car that's superior (and actually used) for 85%
of driving should be considered the primary car -- even if such a car general
You bring up a lot of useful considerations, Ben.
I'll just quibble somewhat with your conclusion below about BEVs as a
"second car."
"...for families that are going to have two cars anyway..."
Actually a lot of folks are reporting that what becomes the "second car"
is the ICE, not the BEV.
On Aug 29, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6 weeks,
> an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks would be
> reasonable, perhaps.
For some, perhaps. It's definitely much less convenient tha
Yes. Rental companies have those type of agreements - you get a key fob
or something like that and can reserve a car online and minutes later
go pick it up.
Also, there's flex car and car-2-go.
Peri
-- Original Message --
From: "John Lussmyer"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
On Fri Aug 29 15:03:02 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6
>weeks, an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks
>would be reasonable, perhaps.
>
>However, aside from the Tesla, 100 mile trips aren't possible.
Peri
-- Original Message --
From: "Ben Goren via EV"
To: "Dennis Miles" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List"
Sent: 29-Aug-14 2:54:22 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall> ?More range or
lower 100mi EV cost?
On Aug 29, 2014, at 1:50 PM, D
On Aug 29, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Dennis Miles wrote:
> 85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also,
> 99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles , leaving only 1% of
> trip miles being over 100 miles.
Those statistics seem quite reasonable. What's _not_ reasonable is your
interpreta
To Ben Goren, in particular and all of the members of the EVDL in
general, I am not arguing with you and your need for range which can
presently be met only with gasoline or diesel according to my
interpretation of your statements. In the USA we have been surveyed
and this data was presented to th
On Aug 28, 2014, at 9:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
> However, for a long as I've followed EVs (and that's over 40 years) the
> battery has always been the main source of reliability problems.
For me, too. That's why I'm looking to use the smallest pack I can get away
with for my 19
On Aug 29, 2014, at 10:27 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
> IIRC, the average person thinks that he needs about 150 miles of EV range.
> He doesn't really, but that's his perception.
That depends on your definition of, "need."
Sure, 90% of trips are under 150 miles -- but just think of
On 29 Aug 2014 at 9:38, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> We need to stop focusing on range (and public charging). Focus on
> educating drivers of the EV value-promise.
Maybe I'm just seeing this with older eyes than you are, but it seems to me
that we've been trying to do just that for nearly a
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 1:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
> Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of
> why Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't
> come with a supercharger option?
>
I remember reading some time ago that there
On 08/29/2014 08:38 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
The goal is to stop burning fossil fuel for everyday local commuting
which can be done better/cheaper/and more conveniently (never having
to refuel) in an EV. [as long as it is plugged in overnight (or at
work) while parked]. EV's CHARGE WHI
> in Europe... Asia, long distance is not the issue,
> it's car cost and range anxiety. If you can sell a car
> for $10k less without the buyer having to worry about range anxiety
> (because there is a good rapid charge infrastructure...) then you'll
sell more cars.
The goal is not to just sell
"Why make an effort to sell lower priced 40kwh cars?" - Right now, I agree, but
... because, as I previously stated, in Europe and much of Asia, long distance
is not the issue, it's car cost and range anxiety. If you can sell a car for
$10k less without the buyer having to worry about range anx
On 08/29/2014 03:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why
Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with
a supercharger option?
I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia
I can understand all the issues people have raised on this thread. The simple
fact is that hardly any of the Renault range is selling. As a long term EVer,
I would not be swayed by the battery lease idea unless it was very cheap - <
$10/month or so. I have sufficient faith in the battery tech
Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why
Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with
a supercharger option?
I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia and Europe where
shorter average journeys are the nor
On 28 Aug 2014 at 14:49, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
> an econobox that costs more -- that costs as much to purchase, as much
> to lease the battery as buy the gas, and then you have to pay for the
> electricity on top of it? And still has limited range and probably very
> slow charging? Who's going t
On Aug 28, 2014, at 6:16 PM, Rick Beebe via EV wrote:
> Slight variant: I'm leasing a Smart ED and renting the battery.
Considering how young and rapidly evolving the EV world is, leasing and / or
renting makes more sense than it does in the gasoline world. At the end of the
lease the new mode
On 8/28/2014 5:49 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
On Aug 28, 2014, at 2:26 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
From what I've read, part of the idea behind their lease - they'll
sell you the car, but not the battery - is to keep the car's
selling price low. I think the battery lease costs about
On Aug 28, 2014, at 2:26 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV
wrote:
> From what I've read, part of the idea behind their lease - they'll sell you
> the car, but not the battery - is to keep the car's selling price low. I
> think the battery lease costs about what you'd spend on on fuel for a
> com
On Aug 28, 2014, at 1:47 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
> I see this as the way to make the econobox electric vehicles possible.
> The Nissan Leaf would sell for the same price as its essential twin the
> Versa and the battery pack would be leased.
If it plays out like that and it speeds the
On 28 Aug 2014 at 13:47, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
> I see this as the way to make the econobox electric vehicles possible. The
> Nissan Leaf would sell for the same price as its essential twin the Versa and
> the battery pack would be leased.
This is what Renault (Nissan's French partner) is
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Ben Goren wrote:
> On Aug 28, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
>
> > In the leasing model, battery packs have a guaranteed capacity. It does
> > not have a guaranteed manufacture date.
>
> That implies a corollary: that you might buy the car with a lease on a
On Aug 28, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
> In the leasing model, battery packs have a guaranteed capacity. It does
> not have a guaranteed manufacture date.
That implies a corollary: that you might buy the car with a lease on a 24 kWh
battery...but are you still going to pay th
Don't know yet, might just let them run free and have you check food and gather
eggs.
Paul Ellcessor
On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
> On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:09 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>
>> There is a certain material inefficiency to make the car larger for
>> s
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
> All I am saying is that "simply" is not really that simple. Tesla made a
> very good choice with their battery design. For them it IS simpl-er. It
> took a clean salte for them to do it.
>
> Handling is not an issue for the S by virtue of that
On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Dennis Miles via EV wrote:
> Certainly the BEV dan be designed to make the battery swappable
Indeed, Tesla has already done that. I'm sure most here have already seen this,
but even so it's worth the few minutes to watch it again:
http://www.teslamotors.com/batter
On Thu Aug 28 10:31:39 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Certainly the BEV dan be designed to make the battery swappable, or to
>make it modular and adding another module for longer range becomes
>feasible simply putting the pack modules in a box below the cabin
>floor could be one solution but a r
On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:09 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
> There is a certain material inefficiency to make the car larger for
> something it only has to do occasionally.
At the other end of the process, there's another type of efficiency gain for
reducing the number of designs. If a manufactur
Certainly the BEV dan be designed to make the battery swappable, or to
make it modular and adding another module for longer range becomes
feasible simply putting the pack modules in a box below the cabin
floor could be one solution but a retrofit to a model which never
intended supplemental packs m
All I am saying is that "simply" is not really that simple. Tesla made a
very good choice with their battery design. For them it IS simpl-er. It
took a clean salte for them to do it.
Handling is not an issue for the S by virtue of that choice.
There is a certain material inefficiency to make
Yes but to make battery swapping economical we need the D cell for car
batteries and given the proliferation of laptop and camera batteries that
seems unlikely. You can buy a rechargeable D cell at your local retail
store that has a capacity of 2200maH just like the AA beside it - guess
what - it
On 08/28/2014 11:16 AM, Michael Ross via EV wrote:
Hi Ed,
I agree with your logistical work up. It makes sense. But...
" can simply have the pack swapped"
This jumps out at me as a stretch. You are talking about putting in 140%
more battery pack to get to 60kWh At the very least, you would
Hi Ed,
I agree with your logistical work up. It makes sense. But...
" can simply have the pack swapped"
This jumps out at me as a stretch. You are talking about putting in 140%
more battery pack to get to 60kWh At the very least, you would have to buy
a car with 140% more space in it for bat
On Aug 28, 2014, at 6:51 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>>> how much range is enough...is it better to... decrease price
>>> without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge?
>
> > Why not do both?
>
> Amen. I like the new Nissan concept of a range of batteries t
>> how much range is enough...is it better to... decrease price
>> without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge?
> Why not do both?
Amen. I like the new Nissan concept of a range of batteries to match the
individual.
I do not want to spend extra 10's of thousands o
On Aug 28, 2014, at 4:54 AM, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:53 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
>> A new study brings an old topic back to the forefront: how much range is
>> enough, and is it better to use battery advancements to decrease price
>> without improving range o
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 3:53 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
> A new study brings an old topic back to the forefront: how much range is
> enough, and is it better to use battery advancements to decrease price
> without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge?
>
Why not do
http://www.torquenews.com/2250/battery-prices-fall-greater-range-or-lower-cost-more-important-evs
As EV battery prices fall, is greater range or lower cost more important?
By Luke Ottaway 2014-08-20
[image] Tesla EV
A new study brings an old topic back to the forefront: how much range is
enough
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