Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 12/8/2013 4:36 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark > wrote: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> Determinism is far from "well established". > It's a basic assumption in al

Re: A definition of human consciousness

On 12/8/2013 4:33 PM, LizR wrote: On 9 December 2013 05:52, John Clark > wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:38 PM, LizR mailto:lizj...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Could you name a materialistic theory that explains consciousness Consciousness is the feel

About infinity and knowing everything

I have been following this list for a while and some idea popped up to my mind today which I'd like to ask/share. I don't know if there are resources about this and I'd love to read any reference you can direct me to. (I am eager to learn so I thought finding something to read about this is a mira

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 12/8/2013 1:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No, it's a simple matter of using different words for different things and not muddling the distinction. The Abrahamic religions make a positive virtue of faith: "Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of his Reason." --- Mar

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 9 December 2013 07:41, John Clark wrote: > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > >>>> Determinism is far from "well established". >>> >> >> > It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. >> > > In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no su

Re: A definition of human consciousness

On 9 December 2013 05:52, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:38 PM, LizR wrote: > > > Could you name a materialistic theory that explains consciousness >> > > Consciousness is the feeling information has when it is being processed; > if conscious is fundamental, that is to say it comes

Re: Is the universe driven by mathematics or is it driven by aesthetics

So a rock (or a giant gorilla at the top of the Empire State building) falls because that's the aesthetic thing for it to do? "Twas beauty killed the beast..." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group an

Re: doesn't dark matter falsify general relativity?

I'm working on a theory that galaxies are held together by duct tape and superglue. It's proving a little tricky. Obviously the tape has to be arranged so the dark side is facing towards us... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 6:59 PM, John Clark wrote: > Telmo Menezes > >> > you must also reject the MWI, because you live > > > Who is "you"? Telmo's post was only 63 words long but the pronoun "you" was > used 8 times, that's almost 13%. When it is necessary to hide behind > personal pronouns when

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 08 Dec 2013, at 19:41, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> Determinism is far from "well established". > It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no such assumption is ma

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 08 Dec 2013, at 17:24, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > Comp is the belief (hope, assumption, theory) that you can survive when saying yes to a doctor who proposed to you a digital computer brain transplant. If that were all "comp" meant I

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Bruno wrote Dec.06 to John Clark: *What about comp-immortality? have you an argument which makes you sure that your consciousness is not related to your computations in arithmetic? That would be a case you seem to know better than us*. Excuse mewhat kind of 'argument' do you require to 'prove'

Re: A definition of human consciousness

On 08 Dec 2013, at 17:52, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:38 PM, LizR wrote: > Could you name a materialistic theory that explains consciousness Consciousness is the feeling information has when it is being processed; if conscious is fundamental, that is to say it comes at the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013/12/8 John Clark > On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > >> > what you assert below is plain lies. While I can agree sometimes with >> things you say, I cannot let such obvious lies pass through. >> > But you've just let "such obvious lies pass through". You haven't > spec

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> Determinism is far from "well established". >> > > > It's a basic assumption in almost every scientific theory. > In the most important theory in physics, Quantum Mechanics, no such assumption is made, and despite a century of trying no

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > what you assert below is plain lies. While I can agree sometimes with > things you say, I cannot let such obvious lies pass through. > But you've just let "such obvious lies pass through". You haven't specifically challenged one word of

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

Telmo Menezes > you must also reject the MWI, because you live Who is "you"? Telmo's post was only 63 words long but the pronoun "you" was used 8 times, that's almost 13%. When it is necessary to hide behind personal pronouns when a philosophical idea regarding duplicating machines and personal

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

As I've shown numerous times now, what you assert below is plain lies. While I can agree sometimes with things you say, I cannot let such obvious lies pass through. Quentin Le 8 déc. 2013 17:24, "John Clark" a écrit : > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > Comp is the be

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 5:24 PM, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> > Comp is the belief (hope, assumption, theory) that you can survive when >> > saying yes to a doctor who proposed to you a digital computer brain >> > transplant. > > > If that were al

Re: A definition of human consciousness

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 4:38 PM, LizR wrote: > Could you name a materialistic theory that explains consciousness > Consciousness is the feeling information has when it is being processed; if conscious is fundamental, that is to say it comes at the end of a long line of "what is that?" questions,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 1:58 AM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/7/2013 9:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 1:08 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> On 12/7/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> Describe an experience which gives sense to multiverses. >> >> >> The Young two slits.

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > Comp is the belief (hope, assumption, theory) that you can survive when > saying yes to a doctor who proposed to you a digital computer brain > transplant. > If that were all "comp" meant I would have no problem with it, but I know from bitt

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 4:46 AM, LizR wrote: > Surely Everett's interpretation makes quantum mechanics deterministic. > Yes but if the world really isn't deterministic then turning quantum mechanics into something that was deterministic would be a point against Everett; and he provides no evidenc

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 7:44 PM, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/7/2013 12:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 06 Dec 2013, at 19:48, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/6/2013 12:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:13, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > 2013/12/5 Jason Resch > >> >> >> >>

Is the universe driven by mathematics or is it driven by aesthetics

Is the universe driven by mathematics or is it driven by aesthetics ? One cannot fail to look upward at the beauty of the night sky without a feeling of wonder. Physicists look for ultimate explanations for the behavior of the universe in mathematics, and indeed one cannot avoid mathematics in

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 08 Dec 2013, at 12:07, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/8 Bruno Marchal On 07 Dec 2013, at 20:05, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 12:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:16, meekerdb wrote: On 12/6/2013 7:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:15 PM, Quentin An

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 08 Dec 2013, at 10:46, LizR wrote: On 8 December 2013 20:58, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 9:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: Everett's idea explains the appearance of collapse without supposing it, so it is more rightfully called a theory. It is also the only theory under which QM is compatib

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013/12/8 Bruno Marchal > > On 07 Dec 2013, at 20:05, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/7/2013 12:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:16, meekerdb wrote: > > On 12/6/2013 7:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:15 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > > 2013/12/5

Re: doesn't dark matter falsify general relativity?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 23:58, John Mikes wrote: Telmo asked: Honest question: isn't "dark matter" a fancy name for failed predictions? I would not be so rude - just call it an ingenious way to save our scientific face in so far developed conventional science. Then it required 'dark energy'

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 19:44, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 12:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Dec 2013, at 19:48, meekerdb wrote: On 12/6/2013 12:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:13, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Quen

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 22:28, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: Good explanation, Professor Marchal, so Comp is the same thing as what Roboticist, Hans Moravec wrote about 25 years ago? He missed the FPI, the reversal, etc. He remains physicalist. But he made some point in the good direction, as Danie

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 20:11, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 1:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Dec 2013, at 09:06, meekerdb wrote: On 12/6/2013 11:47 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: What is subjective is the appreciation, or not, of the term "theology", and that is subjective indeed, but it could al

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 19:59, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 12:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Dec 2013, at 19:55, meekerdb wrote: On 12/6/2013 12:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Dec 2013, at 19:29, meekerdb wrote: On 12/5/2013 1:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Dec 2013, at 13:13, Al

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 20:09, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 1:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But we know already that the universe, whatever it is, cannot entirely understand itself, notably because no machine can ever completely understand itself. That depends on it being digital and infinite.

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 20:05, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 12:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Dec 2013, at 20:16, meekerdb wrote: On 12/6/2013 7:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Dec 5, 2013, at 12:15 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2013/12/5 Jason Resch On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:38 AM,

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 07 Dec 2013, at 20:08, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Describe an experience which gives sense to multiverses. The Young two slits. Only in some interpretations. In all interpretations of QM. You have to change drastically the QM theory to avoid the MW-

Re: Atheism is wish fulfillment

On 8 December 2013 20:58, meekerdb wrote: > On 12/7/2013 9:34 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > Everett's idea explains the appearance of collapse without supposing it, > so it is more rightfully called a theory. It is also the only theory under > which QM is compatible with the well-established princ

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

On 07 Dec 2013, at 19:40, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2013 12:27 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It looks like some atheists are condescending with the people. They act like thinking that the people are so stupid that they should be allowed to believe in Santa Klaus. But that attitude keep such beli

Re: A definition of human consciousness

On 07 Dec 2013, at 19:26, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > Materialistic theories of consciousness can only describe experience, not deal with experience itself. Consciousness theories are a dime a dozen and materialistic theories explain conscio