Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 22, 2013 1:15:58 AM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/19/2013 11:24 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 19:17 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:38:21 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Craig Weinberg

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-22 Thread Alberto G. Corona
This extract from Chesterton has little sense without what precedes and follows. 2013/3/16 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. In one sense, of course, all

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-21 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Tom Bayley tjp.bay...@gmail.com wrote: I think explanations are important to prove causation ;-) and it's interesting that you can break this example down. Each explanatory step is materially plausible (it has a satisfactory public explanation), right up to the

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-21 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:42:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Tom Bayley tjp.b...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I think explanations are important to prove causation ;-) and it's interesting that you can break this example down. Each explanatory step is

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-21 Thread meekerdb
On 3/19/2013 11:24 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 19:17 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:38:21 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Intimate relation is not causality. The

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:44:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Correlation, even 100% correlation, does not equal causation. BULLSHIT! If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Tom Bayley
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:39:40 PM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:44:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comwrote: Correlation, even 100% correlation, does not equal causation. BULLSHIT! If

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X that preceded it, then X causes Y. IT'S WHAT THE WORD CAUSES MEANS! Two flowers bloom at

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Mar 2013, at 17:09, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X that preceded it, then X causes Y. IT'S WHAT

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 11:35:00 AM UTC-4, Tom Bayley wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:39:40 PM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:44:02 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comwrote:

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Tom Bayley tjp.bay...@gmail.com wrote: I always hear an audible click very shortly after I see the light switch on. There is no direct causation, Yes but how do you know that, how can you prove there is no causation? It's easy, just buy another light switch of the same

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:09:24 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X that preceded

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: If when X happens Y always happens AND when X doesn't happen Y never happens then we can say with great confidence that X causes Y because that's what the word causes means. Does this not imply that X causes Y if and

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:37:54 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Tom Bayley tjp.b...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I always hear an audible click very shortly after I see the light switch on. There is no direct causation, Yes but how do you know that, how can you

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell??? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 12:55:50 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell??? Books aren't neurological, right? Right, but they are certainly material.

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:44:23 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell???

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Tom Bayley
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:44:23 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is not caused by neurochemistry. What the hell???

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread meekerdb
On 3/20/2013 4:51 PM, Tom Bayley wrote: There is not a direct link between the light switch and the light going on either, the closing of the light switch just caused a current to flow in the wire, the current flow didn't cause the light either it just caused the filament in the

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:51:50 PM UTC-4, Tom Bayley wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:44:23 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 , Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: We can write books and other people can read them, so that must prove that consciousness is

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:26:04 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:51 PM, Tom Bayley wrote: There is not a direct link between the light switch and the light going on either, the closing of the light switch just caused a current to flow in the wire, the current flow didn't

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 9:44:38 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 6:37 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:26:04 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/20/2013 4:51 PM, Tom Bayley wrote: There is not a direct link between the light switch and the light going

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Mar 2013, at 21:15, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, March 18, 2013 11:33:17 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: G K Chesterton wrote: For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. That is absolutely true,

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread Tom Bayley
On Monday, March 18, 2013 8:15:39 PM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, March 18, 2013 11:33:17 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: G K Chesterton wrote: For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. That is

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:55:30 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 18 Mar 2013, at 21:15, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, March 18, 2013 11:33:17 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: G K Chesterton wrote: For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: The man who thinks he is logical is often just stubborn. If being ruled by your head rather than your gut or your crotch is stubborn then being stubborn is a virtue. There are many things related to consciousness

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 12:34:20 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The man who thinks he is logical is often just stubborn. If being ruled by your head rather than your gut or your crotch is

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Intimate relation is not causality. The stock market has been famously been related to skirt lengths If when skirt lengths changed there was ALWAYS a change in the stock market in the same direction, and when the

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:38:21 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Intimate relation is not causality. The stock market has been famously been related to skirt lengths If when skirt lengths changed

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 19.03.2013 19:17 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:38:21 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Intimate relation is not causality. The stock market has been famously been related

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 2:24:40 PM UTC-4, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 19.03.2013 19:17 Craig Weinberg said the following: On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:38:21 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote:

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-19 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Correlation, even 100% correlation, does not equal causation. BULLSHIT! If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X that preceded

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, March 18, 2013 11:33:17 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: G K Chesterton wrote: For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. That is absolutely true, there are more ways of being wrong than of being

G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. In one sense, of course, all intelligent ideas are narrow. They cannot be broader than themselves. A Christian is only restricted in the same sense that an

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-16 Thread meekerdb
On 3/16/2013 3:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. In one sense, of course, all intelligent ideas are narrow. They cannot be broader than themselves. A Christian

Re: G.K. Chesterton on Materialism

2013-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:41:58 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 3/16/2013 3:13 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: For we must remember that the materialist philosophy (whether true or not) is certainly much more limiting than any religion. In one sense, of course, all intelligent ideas are