Reversible programming

*some references* *A reversible programming language and its invertible self-interpreter* https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1244404 A reversible programming language supports deterministic forward and backward computation. We formalize the programming language Janus and prove its

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 05:01, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/12/2018 1:10 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> Right, which is what Bruno's result, Markus Muller's paper shows is the case >> with arithmetical truth in its relation to physical systems. Assuming >> arithemtical truth, one can explain

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:37, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:18:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 11

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:26, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 4:07:13 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 20:53, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 7:30:32 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 21:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 1:39:12 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 4:56 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > > >> Without physics reality would not need a foundation because there would > >> be no reality, there

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 04:30, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/12/2018 9:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 12 Dec 2018, at 12:54, Philip Thrift >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:09:00 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 23:33, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 4:10 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > > > Tell me why an electron is a thing and 3 is not. > > An electron can change in time and space, 3 can not change in either. > > >>Computations "exist" in

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:38, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:51:04 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 19:32, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> SNIP >> >> >>> No testable hypotheses; conclusios not based on empirical data. AG.

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

> On 12 Dec 2018, at 22:30, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 6:57:33 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 10:07:13 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 20:53, agrays...@gmail.com <> wrote: >> >> >>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 01:04, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 11 Dec 2018, at 20:20, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/11/2018 11:06 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 9:30:10 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > the mathematical idea of "true" is very different from the common one. > > Brent > > > This reminds me of the "truth" the guys on *The Big Bang Theory* refer to a lot: They have arguments of what would be the case (be

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 6:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Dec 2018, at 21:33, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 1:39:12 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 4:56 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> Without physics

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 5:34:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:38, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:51:04 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 19:32, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> SNIP >> >>>

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 6:43:24 AM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 5:55:13 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 11:41:13 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 10:27:29 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Dec 2018, at 15:12, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 5:34:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:38, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/12/2018 11:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 10:44 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/12/2018 5:21 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 6:04 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 1:12:35 PM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 10:27:29 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 13 Dec 2018, at 15:12, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 5:34:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/13/2018 3:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: *Automating Gödel'’s Ontological Proof of God’s Existence ¨ with Higher-order Automated Theorem Provers* http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/cbenzmueller/papers/C40.pdf Gödel took the modal logic S5 for its proof, which is the only logic NOT available

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems (a symposium at the AAAI Stanford Spring Symposium 2019)

On 12/13/2018 3:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But that is the same as saying proof=>truth. I don’t think so. It says that []p -> p is not provable, unless p is proved. So  []([]p -> p) -> p  or in other words Proof([]p -> p) => (p is true)  So in this case proof entails truth?? For

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 1:49 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/12/2018 11:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 10:44 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/12/2018 5:21 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 6:04 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Class calculus and conscious AIs

Hi, I’m wondering if any of you have read this paper and if so, what do you think about it. The author says he’s discovered a new kind of mathematics that could give rise to machine consciousness. A few other publications picked it up but it got surprisingly little fanfare, for such a bold

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 6:01 PM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 6:13 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > >> > An electron can change in time and space, 3 can not change in either. >>> >> >> You are ruling out the block time view, which contradicts special >> relativity. >> > > The block

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 6:49:34 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Dec 2018, at 18:05, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 11:34:48 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:38, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/13/2018 4:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: See the bit about reversible computing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle (computations that are reversible require no energy). And they produce no results since they run both ways.  They are not even computations in the CT

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 6:13 PM Jason Resch wrote: > > An electron can change in time and space, 3 can not change in either. >> > > You are ruling out the block time view, which contradicts special > relativity. > The block universe changes along the time dimension and special relativity deals

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 15:12, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 5:34:48 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:38, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:51:04 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 11

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 15:31, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 6:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 21:33, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 1:39:12 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 11,

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 11:34:48 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:38, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:51:04 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 11 Dec 2018, at 19:32, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> SNIP >> >>>

Re: Where Max Tegmark is really wrong

> On 13 Dec 2018, at 18:05, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 11:34:48 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 19:38, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:51:04 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 10:44:04 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 13 Dec 2018, at 15:31, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 6:01:59 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 12 Dec 2018, at 21:33, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday,