Re: [FairfieldLife] Vajra boy is indeed Tm'er
On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:54 AM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes, I remember it. 1974. The initatior was so beautiful that Vaj humped her. Vaj was so embarrassed by that incident that it took him 10 years of FFL to come clean on it. While 14 year olds may be like that today - in that day, not so much. Nice try Spock, better work on that Mind Meld.
Re: [FairfieldLife] TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 9:02 AM, turquoiseb wrote: But for real drama (as opposed to the faux kind), my kudos go to Dexter and Homeland for the season finales of the year. Dexter ended with *exactly* the scene I thought it would, but it took its time getting there, while filling in the proper emotional content to give it the big payoff it deserved. Good performances from Michael C. Hall (as always) and Jennifer Carpenter (ditto), plus a surprisingly good performance by Colin Hanks. Not nearly up to the standard set in season four, but good, and a perfect setup for what I hear will be Dex's last season next year. While I still enjoy Dexter, I was disappointed by the Revelation-End Times theme. Although it may appeal to the Christian horde, it's been endlessly used in the cinema (my fave being Stigmata, which features my favorite biblical text).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:01 AM, turquoiseb wrote: On another note (and I assume because you didn't comment on it that you haven't been following the series), I was quite taken with Homeland because of episode 11. I really liked it too, but I would have preferred an Episode 12 with an exploding vest scene! In it, Claire Danes did literally the best job of portraying onscreen someone suffering from bipolar disorder I've ever seen. I've been there. I've had personal friends who were bipolar, and have seen what they're like in their manic periods. *Having* been there done that, I tend to avoid certain Internet personalities whom I suspect of being similarly afflicted. But she just *nailed* it. She also nailed the sometimes quick cycling to severe depression (not all BPD patients cycle that fast) which made me wonder about a certain internet personality's disappearance and if someone with a connection to him could lovingly check in on him? It's concerning to me. It's positively SCARY the extent to which people beset by an episode of mania *believe* in the reality of what they are subjectively experiencing, to the extent of losing all contact with how they might be perceived by others around them. I have found this behavior common enough in spiritual environments to lead me to think that it may not be a coincidence. What they also did well was how the inner torment instantly ages the person. If ever there was evidence of a mind-body connection it is the rapid change of appearance in mental illness. Interestingly (to me) the yogic tradition describes certain imbalanced kundalini risings that cycle and strongly resemble a Bipolar etiology.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 12:15 PM, turquoiseb wrote: Is it the same thing, or something different? Beats me? I am no neuroscientist, or even a trained behavioral scientist. All I know is that if some of the states that we commonly see awakened people go through are (as we suspect) a little more than eccentric, it's a situation that is made more serious by total belief in the sanctity and truth of subjective experience. What's amazing to me is to have witnessed the machinations of a so- called enlightened man in 1983 and to find no discernible difference between 1983 and 2011 - except I have a better understanding now of mental illness, back then it was just the intuition that 'something's not right here'. Of course once everyone saw the videos of the enlightened man beating one of his students, on official video, on the stage - that was the last straw. The emperor of ice cream melted. People have been taught for decades that their subjec- tive experience is the holy grail with which to judge spiritual experience or their evolution towards something they've been told is enlightenment. At the same time, there was no instruction along the way that taught them how to differentiate between actual spir- itual experience and overwhelming emotion. Well, as TMers we were not taught to refine attention, let alone master it's balance - but we believed we were anywaysthat's what they said! An institutionalized fear of effort made sure of that never would occur. Hell some TMers still imagine themselves in these exalted samadhis - it's insanely hilarious and insanely sad at the same time. Circa the early 80's many TMers I knew got caught up in 'healing the emotional body' thang. The belief that was spread around was that TM was too dry as it transcended the emotional body, thereby skipping it. So a popular cult arose, combining a mixture of hyperventilation, focused massage and rebirthing in hot tubs. It was during one of those sessions that the first friend I knew declared his status as an awakened one. Shortly thereafter, the ex-initiator started his own system - suspiciously based on this bubble diagram-like drawing. We were all encouraged to move to the Southwestern US, as 'that's where all the evolved ones were going'. He did make an interesting first channel on how the followers of RWC were actually all reincarnations of an off-split that had caused disciples to leave a legit guru for a false guru. As a result (IMO), they get into a manic state, interpret the overwhelming emotions of it as spiritual, and consider what they're going through -- *whatever* it may be -- synonymous with Truth. They're healing their emotional bodies, can't you SEE? All that emotion's been pent up from all that rounding. TM was just too damn efficient for American nervous systems! So in a way the manic states become self-replicating. Having convinced themselves that a previous manic state was something akin to enlightenment, they mood-make more of them. Well it's interesting because the Sanskrit word for mood is bhava. The words for TM are bhavatita-dhyana, that is literally beyond moods meditation. But what is it they get enlightened in? Moods. Or mood management. Or lack of mood management. Whatever you want to call it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 1:02 PM, Rick Archer wrote: No need to apologize. Amma’s “hugs” can be powerful, and we’ve seen since Mallorca that not everyone can handle spiritual voltage. There are probably lots of people in mental institutions, or who have committed suicide, who had Kundalini awakenings they couldn’t handle, or didn’t get proper guidance for, etc. I've been told numerous times here that these type of things don't occur in TM. I must've been seeing something no one else had ever seen - or if it was happening it was rare or only happened to people who were already mussed up. I was rather surprised to hear it in the Amma context though, as I don't believe I'd heard that before. I received rather vigorous shaktipat from Amma several times, and actually found it incredibly helpful. (But seriously, someone who's friendly with R. should make sure he's OK. It IS the reasonable thing to do).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Bhairitu wrote: This is EXACTLY the reason that many traditions DON'T give agni mantras to the general public. The claim is they can make some people crazy. Well thank god that never happened with TM, just a little occasional unstressing, and refining of the nervous system. And sometimes knives just slip, that's just a sign that it's time to go meditate.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 1:42 PM, turquoiseb wrote: Unless it pays off in real-world benefits that are visible to everyone, not just the person claiming such moods, I remain unconvinced of the benefit. Of course the only trend I see is a universal disruption of those around them - usually to the point of avoidance.
[FairfieldLife] The Real Purpose of Vedic Science
The real purpose of Vedic science is the establishment of Hindu supremacy. The main targets are the schools, both public and parochial, where a massive Hinduization of history and science curricula is going on. The fantastic claims of Hindu science enthusiasts are dangerous because under the current regime, they have a very good chance of finding their way into school textbooks. The Hindu nationalist groups together run some 20,000 low-cost private schools, teaching 2.4 million children, with nearly a thousand new schools coming up every month (The New York Times, May 13, 2002). These outfits also run special residential schools in tribal areas and urban slums where they openly indoctrinate disadvantaged children into hardcore nationalist ideology. These schools are the Hindu equivalent of madarasas in Pakistan. Science teaching in these schools is already heavily Hinduized. According to Tanika Sarkar (1996, 243) who has studied urban schools run by the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh, scientific education, whether on physics or mathematics, is always concluded with Hindu textual approximation mentioned as the real source of that knowledge. There is a confident disregard of authenticated detail, and of boundaries between myth and reality that postmodernists would appreciate. The Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh's agenda of Hinduization of education is now close to becoming the official policy of the Indian government. The new National Curriculum Framework for School Education announced by the current government in November 2000 promises to inculcate patriotism and national pride by indigenizing education. A major component of indigenization will be highlighting India's contribution to world wisdom which will include all the usual items, from Ayurveda to yoga. In addition, the new curricula will require that religious/spiritual teachings be judiciously integrated with all subjects so as to raise the spiritual quotient of the students.' After two years of court challenges, in September 2002, India's Supreme Court allowed the government to go ahead with the new framework. The real threat of Vedic science is not to research and development in science, but to the educational system that is gearing up to produce a Hindu supremacist mind-set. Prophets Facing Backward Meera Nanda A must read for all Vedic Science, MIU/MUM and MSAE fans past and present.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:05 PM, maskedzebra wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: Vaj: What's amazing to me is to have witnessed the machinations of a so-called enlightened man in 1983 and to find no discernible difference between 1983 and 2011 - except I have a better understanding now of mental illness, back then it was just the intuition that 'something's not right here'. Of course once everyone saw the videos of the enlightened man beating one of his students, on official video, on the stage - that was the last straw. The emperor of ice cream melted. Robin: I know of no such video. I remember no such incident. Could you please, for the sake of my own much needed further humiliation, provide some source for this claim of yours, Vaj? Until or unless you do, I shall go on the record as denying that such a tape exists, that such a incident happened. That is, to say, I am calling you a liar. Of course once everyone saw the videos of 'the enlightened man' beating one of his students, on official video, on the stage—What about the persons who witnessed this live, Vaj? They would be even more disturbed. No, Vaj: you are making something up again. I am prepared to face my past and all that I have done. But this, this is a lie. And given that I am denying this, you can imagine what good it would do me to be confronted by something I did which I do not remember doing and which I have officially said I didn't do on this forum. I think you have a serious moral responsibility to make available to me the evidence of this claim of yours, Vaj. So please follow through on this. Maybe you were dissociating? Should I post it here or on YouTube?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 3:51 PM, Emily Reyn wrote: Nothing to do with this, but as a side thought and as an outsider (which may discredit my next thought completely), I saw the photo that Vaj posted and followed up with an analysis akin to note the tension in the crowd...etc., etc. There was absolutely no way that anything resembling his analysis was evident from the photo- whether one knew who was in it or not - IMO of course. I guess you had to be there. There was considerable concern, as marching around FF and MIU made us look like loonies - but at least R. insisted on being out front (with the SBS print) - so it wasn't all that bad.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 19, 2011, at 5:41 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: I had love for Maharishi, I had devotion and worked for him, I did what he, or the movement told me at the time. And I think I can rightly say, you don't need to teach me about intense bhakti. But what he is doing is romantizising, that's different. Romantizising means to impose your own fancy ideas on a lover, ideas that aren't true, ideas you will not care to validate. Love is not just a feeling, you have to act upon it, if you have a Guru, you have to see what the guru is actually saying, and not project something onto him. Robin creates a world of his own. You really get it Z. You're asking (IMO) all the right questions and catching the disconnects, you catch every one. Trust me, this is nothing new, the paradoxical/contradicting speech has not changed a wink. The romanticism and sentimentality as well.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 19, 2011, at 7:18 PM, maskedzebra wrote: TM transformed me. Maharishi created an experience in me that told me he was the embodiment of the highest truth. The romance I refer to is the romance that Saint Francis of Assisi (not comparing me to him, of course) had for Christ. Maharishi appeared to make me enlightened. Enlightenment was everything I could have imagined it to be from Maharishi's description in The Science of Being and Art of Living, in all his videos, is his lectures to us live. I acted for ten years inside an entirely different context than I had up until the very moment before I 'slipped into Unity'. At some point in the ten years I was introduced through two friends—while I was in New York giving a seminar—to the Eucharist (I was sick at the time). Taking into my body the Host produced a remarkable experience, and this seemed even more subtle than TM. I subsequently surrendered myself to the Roman Catholic Church. The doctrines of Catholicism were in conflict with my enlightenment. I read Thomas Aquinas: either he was right or Maharishi was right. Aquinas seemed to have a more profound grasp of reality than did Maharishi, and I began to realize: Robin, it's either Aquinas (the Catholic truth) or it's your enlightenment, TM, and Maharishi. Under the inspiration of a priest I finally made my decision: my enlightenment, even though an objectively different state of consciousness with real life consequences for one's free will and actions, must be ultimately false to reality. Once I judged this to be true, I immediately became aware of the evidence—with the help of my best friend—of problems within me which had, as it were, 'set me up' for getting enlightened. I have concentrated on confronting myself these past 24 years—and my enlightenment has gone away. Now my experience of Maharishi was very profound. In my heart I felt something I had never felt before or since: Maharishi seemed to hold within himself the love and intelligence behind all o creation. He radiated the bliss and truth of reality. When I compare this experience—and this Master Disciple relationship extended into my enlightenment—to the experience of loving another human being, the sense of romance in the classic sense seemed much greater to me. Now the factors which led to my enlightenment are complex, but besides my own weakness and naiveties and blind spots, there is the matter of angelic intelligences—as I perceived them—which are at the mechanical basis, or so I believe based upon experimental knowledge, of how one becomes enlightened. These intelligences were very active once I began TM, especially when I attended long rounding courses in Europe. Eventually through my devotion to my Master and my practising his techniques, I went into Unity Consciousness (all this, as Judy says, is contained in a number of books that I wrote after becoming enlightened). What those books don't say—they were all completed before 1982—is that Catholicism (1986) destroyed my enlightenment; or should I say my recognition of the truths of Catholicism made my enlightenment something that simply could not have happened under the beneficent influence of the sacraments, the Virgin Mary, and conceiving of God as the Holy Trinity. Now I eventually realized that Catholicism itself was not what it used to be. And I came to see the Catholic Church as lacking the supernatural efficacy of its claims. It once (before the Second World War) did represent reality; but it no longer did. And I had to abandon that spiritual context as well. Now comes on my personal relationship to Maharishi. As long as Maharishi behaved as the perfect human being, there was nothing I could do but go with my experience, which was one of profound devotion and love and surrender. Once he began to make missteps, once he began to reveal some imperfections, my concept of him began to crumble. Now you must understand that my appreciation for Maharishi as my Master extended even into my Catholicism; but at a certain point after reading Aquinas and rejecting my enlightenment, I had to reject him too, as well as TM. Once I entered into this process Maharishi began to show his feet of clay, until mid-way through 1987 I realized that Maharishi himself, like I was, was deceived. Now Zarzari, when I contemplate the time between around 1969 through 1986—and most intensely while being around Maharishi at my TTC, ATR, and my Six Month Course—I remember the sensation in my body, the feeling in my heart, the adoration in my soul, and the expansion of my mind, and I realize that I enjoyed the highest romance anyone could ever have. Just because I have rejected Maharishi, does not mean that I must jettison those memories of what it was like to be around him, and what he projected of the majesty of his consciousness.To be around Maharishi say between 1972
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV yawns, plus TV kudos
On Dec 19, 2011, at 8:35 PM, Emily Reyn wrote: Good...I'll just let that one go :) I experienced her as a powerful being. She scared the crap out of me on several levels and she claims to know - I am worried my inauthenticity about accepting her as my guru in order to receive a mantra will come back to get me. Ask yourself the question: would a loving, caring, embracing mother care?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
You really missed the mark again Robin - you're not even close to the truth. What's up with that? How can you so consistently hit the mark. Do you have a straw man fetish or something? On Dec 18, 2011, at 12:32 AM, maskedzebra wrote: 1. You never seek to address the essence of what someone says in a given post. 2. You selectively chose segments from a post which you choose to comment on, and those segments usually do not bear upon the fundamental point or theme of the post. You ignore the most important ideas of a given post. You are only interested in using certain aspects of the post to serve your own strange and essentially negative agenda. 3. You have no motivation that is based upon wanting learn something at FFL, or to clarify some idea, or to argue with some expectation of resolving an issue. 4. You have no feel for the truth of anything you say; you are not governed by fact or honesty in your posts. 5. You are an archivist who then appropriates the material and information you collect into the claim that you have lived out these experiences. This is classic fantasizing. 6. You don't know how to proceed such as to fulfill your own agenda, because you are essentially a confused and disoriented person when it comes to knowing what you are up to when you post at FFL. 7. You don't know where you are at any moment in your interaction with various persons here at FFL. There is no intellectual or moral or even psychological coherence in what you write such that the reader can estimate where you are going with your posts. You don't know what you are doing at FFL, Vaj: FFL is like some kind of dream you are having and inside that dream you are behaving bizarrely 8. Who the hell is Tim Tebow?—direct quote from Vaj two weeks ago. Now it's: I knew who he was; I just wasn't that interested. Do you ever admit to yourself, not to say others, when you deliberately make what is unreal for you into something that then becomes part of your personal history, as if you have passed through the experience; meanwhile what you say you have lived through remains separate from you entirely. It is never something that is inside of you? 9. You are in some kind of disassociated state, Vaj: because you don't ever connect the dots. You don't know where you are going; you don't know what you are doing; you have no contact with reality. You are in a very bad state indeed. 10. You lie—and evidently it has reached the point where even you don't know the difference between saying something that is not true and saying something that is true. The line between what is a lie and what is the truth has become so blurred that you don't even know what it is like to know that something really happened to you as opposed to something that never happened to you. 11. You have no idea of the common denominator of experience of most everyone on this forum. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Dec 17, 2011, at 3:01 PM, maskedzebra wrote: One thing (you wouldn't know about this personally) about TM and Maharishi: it makes you contemptuous and patronizing when it comes to discussing Christianity. Well, unfortunately for you, you've probably lost the best conduit to speak deeply re: Christianity TM in the person of Rev. Curtis D. Blues - as he's the person on this list who spent the most time and attention (that I'm aware of) getting to know the Catholic priest-meditators-as-TMers - the biggies (most if not all whom saw through the veneer of the Faux Holey Tradition and parted ways with TM). I think those who drank deeply of a mystical Christianity broke easily with the sandy ground of TM, based on the rock of their Christ-consciousness. Those with a more superficial Christian sand-consciousness are doomed to the purgatory of up-bubbling mantra till they part their mortal frame… At one time Christian Centering Prayer actually resembled TM, although now, not at all. I attribute that change to the Catholic contemplative break with TM-as-perrenialist-panacea … and Thomas Keating. But I think the real giveaway about the East is its implicit sense of superiority over Catholicism, when in fact this very posture is itself evidence of something ultimately not in agreement with reality. Depends on the POV - the east is not one homogeneous whole - it's many Points of View, sometimes not merely differing paths on the same mountain (the Perennialists view), but more frequently different mountains altogether. You never knew who Tim Tebow was a few weeks ago. I am glad you are now fully au courant. On reflection, I had heard of him, I just had little interest. For me, commercial sports is the primary mechanism for embruing the acceptability of endless war on our children. But you are right: I will be ambivalent
Re: [FairfieldLife] SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 18, 2011, at 12:32 AM, maskedzebra wrote: 8. Who the hell is Tim Tebow?—direct quote from Vaj two weeks ago. Now it's: I knew who he was; I just wasn't that interested. Do you ever admit to yourself, not to say others, when you deliberately make what is unreal for you into something that then becomes part of your personal history, as if you have passed through the experience; meanwhile what you say you have lived through remains separate from you entirely. It is never something that is inside of you? Let's use this as one example of how deceptively (and voluminously) Robin lies about what other people say, feel or think, here's what I actually said: On reflection, I had heard of him, I just had little interest. I think it's rather obvious that if I reflected on it, I had to have a recollection of it inside of me. I think you're so upset because I brought up the fact that you counseled TM sidha couples to abort their future children in order to help their evolution. Now is that enlightened action Robin?
Re: [FairfieldLife] A Christmas haiku from Whole Foods...
On Dec 18, 2011, at 5:04 AM, Bob Price wrote: Let us try to know the spiritual significance of tolerance. Tolerance is not conscious submission to a superior power. Real tolerance is compassion in disguise. When we have real tolerance, the seeker in us sees the expansion of his loving heart, his illumining soul and his fulfilling goal. -Sri Chinmoy Allegations of sexual misconduct were made by ex-disciple Anne Carlton and two other former disciples.[86] Carlton claimed in the New York Post that Chinmoy summoned her for sexual encounters over two extended periods, in 1991 and 1996.[86] Other women have also recounted similar stories, and one even revealed that Chinmoy had paid for her abortion after getting her pregnant in the early 1980s.[87]Allegations against Chinmoy were published in the book 'The Joy of Sects'.[88] In response, Chinmoy denied the accusation, stating he was a life-long celibate and sexual misconduct allegations against him were false and defamatory.[89] ___ http://www.rickross.com/reference/srichinmoy/srichinmoy20.html What's with this false master karma Bobby? Hey Robin, you still takin' followers?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 18, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: If I were on a jury, and had to make a determination based on the evidence I have heard over my time on FFL, I would say that IMO the evidence is irrefutable (or at least beyond a reasonable doubt) that Vaj was a very active participant in the TMO. Ray: While I was at one time active in the TMO, that time has long passed. Since I was very young when I started TM (my parents had to drive me to advanced lectures) I was made to feel special and blessed and so was subject to constant offers of promotion should I want it: center SIMS president, checker, MIU visits, etc. I preferred however to stay on the sidelines, as I never trusted MMY, although was intrigued by certain aspects of his knowledge. By the time I was in my early 20's, TM and the TMSP had already unravelled due to exposure to the Holy Shankaracharya Order and numerous pundit-yogis of the Rig Veda and Patanjali tradition. My family has a long history in India and Tibet since the turn of the previous century, and were keen to relay their opinions when asked. The most egregious behavior of Vaj's I have found so far was when he intentially over posted some time back to foul up the system, just to try to test the moderators post counting, (or something along these lines). I think Alex got pretty pissed off, and I didn't blame him. And quite honestly, I thought that indicated a real lack of integrity on Vaj's part. Actually Ray other posters had been deleting their posts for many months in order to avoid overposting, and got away with it (or so it appeared to me; I'm not really sure), so I thought I'd try it. Needless to say, I didn't receive the special care the others did. I did do some ribbing at Alex, and if I offended him, he certainly has my sincere apology.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Christmas haiku from Whole Foods...
On Dec 18, 2011, at 10:26 AM, maskedzebra wrote: Dear Vaj: Yeah, the Bob guy goofed big-time here. Good that you caught him in this faux pas. I think you may have done him—the Bob guy—a favour, After all, he just has to know about Carlos Santana's attitude towards Chinmoy to realize that to quote this guy (SC) as some paragon of wisdom is going to kick up in his (BP's) face. I maintain my animus against all things Eastern, because that is how I got out from under the hallucination of my enlightenment. Do you really believe you've got out from under it? As soon as someone quotes some Guru (who lived in my lifetime—other than Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who is very different—even with all his problems), the universe—or so it seems to me—refuses to lend any kind of support; so one is suddenly on one's own. Well not to go all eastern on you, but you do realize the context you feel has a lot to do with your own accumulated samskaras, right? If you don't like the word samskara you could substitute the words subconscious activators or some similar phrase. I think Bob Price quite brilliant [see my eulogy when he had unsubscribed]; but as soon as he turned in the direction of Sri Chinmoy he diminished—at least for that moment—his credibility. Although not necessarily in the minds of FFL readers; but in the mind of the intelligence behind creation [IMO]. For me Chinmoy is a perfect example of yogis who fall into showing off their siddhis. As for my sins of the past to which you refer, I have paid for them, I am still paying for them, and I will pay for them. I think it not a particularly valid form of argument to bring in the business of what someone said in their notorious and disavowed past, when quite clearly that person (who allegedly acted in some way which can be seen to have been wrong) has radically changed their philosophy—and has stated quite publicly that they were in an hallucinatory state at the time. I ask you to come at me based upon what you can infer from my posts at FFL, Vaj: I am sure all of us have done things we are not proud of, especially when we go back nearly 30 years. But I suppose I had it coming, given my desperation regarding your approach here at FFL. Well perhaps, and the inability to write you privately. But all this is part of a past that I repudiate. I am happy to be held accountable for all my actions in my post-Unity waking state consciousness, Vaj. But not when I as an individual seemed to have become cosmic. You see, had I now met the Robin I was then (early 1980's), I would have approached him as someone deceived, even with all his sincerity and the obviously sense that he was experiencing his actions as under the aegis and even control of cosmic intelligence. Try to deal with the issues as they naturally come up in the present, Vaj; at least in this sense: that we meet each other where we are now. I wish for good things for you, Vaj. Glad you stayed away from Chinmoy. But back there in those days when I was in Unity Consciousness I was an autonomous center of radical theatre and extreme purposefulness in every second, and I experienced my actions to have the imprimatur of reality. Reality, as it were, seemed to be running me. And I did many foolish and ill-advised things. For which I would judge myself now harshly. But let us stick to what is fair game here, Vaj, buddy. Agreed.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 18, 2011, at 11:44 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Are your parents still furious with you for trying TM? Sounds like it... They were never furious in the first place. They gave their opinions only when asked and let me do as I pleased. They would not allow me to go to MIU though, a fact I only appreciated as I got older.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Christmas haiku from Whole Foods...
On Dec 18, 2011, at 10:45 AM, zarzari_786 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: I maintain my animus against all things Eastern, because that is how I got out from under the hallucination of my enlightenment. As soon as someone quotes some Guru (who lived in my lifetime—other than Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who is very different—even with all his problems), the universe—or so it seems to me—refuses to lend any kind of support; so one is suddenly on one's own. I think Bob Price quite brilliant [see my eulogy when he had unsubscribed]; but as soon as he turned in the direction of Sri Chinmoy he diminished—at least for that moment—his credibility. Although not necessarily in the minds of FFL readers; but in the mind of the intelligence behind creation [IMO]. Aren't there a lot of scandals in the catholic church as well,maybe many more? I don't see anything especially eastern about transgressions like these. And, the eastern philosophy is as diverse as it can be, something you haven't taken into account yet. Esp. considering one of the few actual living lineal descents of one of Yeshua of Nazareth's disciples is in southern India and attached to an ancient maritime trade route. Something worth considering is the large and ancient history of Dark Yogis. Despite the long history of Christofascism, torture, genocide and child sexual abuse among the gurus (priests) of Roman Catholicism, India with it's huge population and traditions extending into the remotest antiquity may have the upper hand in sheer numbers, if not in raw ferocity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 18, 2011, at 5:11 PM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for the reply Vaj, has you have always replied when I have brought up a question in a sincere fashion. Well please keep in mind I don't always read all posts, so don't take it personally if I do not. It probably just means I'm busy doing something else.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 18, 2011, at 5:37 PM, seventhray1 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: So Steve, that's three highly iffy statements from Vaj in a single brief post. Typical, in my observation. Well thanks. That's pretty good work. The part I found odd was that he said that I, (Ray) had been deleting posts for months. I think I've deleted one post in the last three years, and that was from a couple weeks ago. (I think it was to.Ravi) I wasn't referring to you R., that's why I said other [unspecified] posters.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 18, 2011, at 7:29 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: since there are so many TM teachers on this board, nay even 'enlightened' ones, of what importance is it, that Vaj did TM or not? We have enough information about TM right? When a major disruption comes up, like the recent national airing of David Wants to Fly, where the truth was laid bare on Mahesh, they go into frenzies like this. It never seems to dawn on them the possibility of growing out of something and moving on. They'll likely remain happily stuck in the same rut for the rest of their lives. I know I had enough information - directly - so it's rather bizarre to watch all this thrashing over my 35 USD mantra purchase in 1974...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A Christmas haiku from Whole Foods...
On Dec 18, 2011, at 7:08 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: Exactly! When in Chennai, there is St Thomas Mount near the airport, obviously where he was assasinated. On the beach is a beautiful cathedral where he was buried. I think I walked be the cathedral on the beach on marine drive. Since I'm not big into christianity, I never bothered to go there, but since reading these articles, I might go there next time I have an opportunity. There have been some recent documentaries that detailed the trade routes that brought him there and the details of the current days practices. Very interesting. If I can find it, I'll post a link. I believe it was on PBS.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 18, 2011, at 7:29 PM, zarzari_786 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: I find several points -on TM - where I agree with him, and he exhibits knowledge, obviously others are missing out. What points would those be?
Re: [FairfieldLife] SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:36 PM, maskedzebra wrote: You have shut my mouth, and my soul. Curtis. Time will tell. I'm sure you'll have something to say when the pristine innocence of Brady defeats, St. George-like, the Beast's Christofacist demonic consciousness channelled by Fundie Tebow on the field of Armageddon tomorrow!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 17, 2011, at 3:01 PM, maskedzebra wrote: One thing (you wouldn't know about this personally) about TM and Maharishi: it makes you contemptuous and patronizing when it comes to discussing Christianity. Well, unfortunately for you, you've probably lost the best conduit to speak deeply re: Christianity TM in the person of Rev. Curtis D. Blues - as he's the person on this list who spent the most time and attention (that I'm aware of) getting to know the Catholic priest-meditators-as-TMers - the biggies (most if not all whom saw through the veneer of the Faux Holey Tradition and parted ways with TM). I think those who drank deeply of a mystical Christianity broke easily with the sandy ground of TM, based on the rock of their Christ-consciousness. Those with a more superficial Christian sand-consciousness are doomed to the purgatory of up-bubbling mantra till they part their mortal frame… At one time Christian Centering Prayer actually resembled TM, although now, not at all. I attribute that change to the Catholic contemplative break with TM-as-perrenialist-panacea … and Thomas Keating. But I think the real giveaway about the East is its implicit sense of superiority over Catholicism, when in fact this very posture is itself evidence of something ultimately not in agreement with reality. Depends on the POV - the east is not one homogeneous whole - it's many Points of View, sometimes not merely differing paths on the same mountain (the Perennialists view), but more frequently different mountains altogether. You never knew who Tim Tebow was a few weeks ago. I am glad you are now fully au courant. On reflection, I had heard of him, I just had little interest. For me, commercial sports is the primary mechanism for embruing the acceptability of endless war on our children. But you are right: I will be ambivalent tomorrow; I like the Tebow miracle storyline, but I also love those Bill Belichick-coached Patriots. Tom Brady and Sidney Crosby and Roger Federer and Jonny Wilkenson are my favourite athletes. But I do like Tim Tebow very much: if only for his impressive humility. Indeed, a wonderful human quality so lacking in Christofascism; but I do not know enough of Mr. Tebow to comment on his humility. I believe it was you who once said the sole redeeming quality of mundane Christianity was to keep a person clean till their next life (after which time they'd presumably take up a higher path).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 17, 2011, at 6:40 PM, maskedzebra wrote: RESPONSE: Not merely learning about divine things but also experiencing them—that does not come from mere intellectual acquaintance with the terms of scientific theology, but from loving the things of God and cleaving to them by affection. Fellow-feeling comes from fondness rather than from cognizance, for things understood are in the mind in the mind's own fashion, whereas desire goes out to things as they are in themselves; love would transform us into the very condition of their being. Thus, by the settled bent of his affections, a virtuous man is well apt to judge straightway the affairs of virtue; so also the lover of divine matters divinely catches their gist. Aquinas Gee, I would of thought I warranted more of a response than another quote from Dead Catholic Theologians 101. Esp. one from a mere intellectual like Aquinas? Perhaps a Desert Father for dessert next time? I wonder if Aquinas was a gelukpa in his next life? If so, he would have to feign a more universal love - no doubt difficult for RC's...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:02 PM, maskedzebra wrote: RESPONSE II: Not every love has the quality of friendship. In the first place it is reserved to that love for another which wills his well-being. When what we will is not the other's good for his sake, but the desire of it as it affects us, that is not friendship, but self-regarding love and some sort of concupiscence. Neither does benevolence suffice for friendship; in addition a mutual loving is required, for friend is friend to friend. This interplay of well-wishing is founded on companionship. It's shown that Buddhists in higher states of consciousness meditate on objectless compassion: love beyond mere objects. How sad for Aquinas' circle jerk. It does sound like the perfect rationale for child molesters - how clever! You should send that one to Jerry Sandusky, I bet he'd find great consolation in it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:06 PM, maskedzebra wrote: RESPONSE III: That a perfection is present in the human mind, too high to be explained by anything less than the supernatural, is man's nobility. Irrational creatures are impotent here. It does not follow that the highest human perfection is gained by natural power, which may indeed reach to what accords with the state of nature, but not to the heroism of the state of grace. Robin, by the grace of god, will you stop telling your sidha students to have abortions? Irrational creatures are not always functionally impotent, but often found dangerously clinging to the whore of Grace.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
Sent from my iPad On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:24 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: So now you are Vag, the critiquer of Christian contemplation – knower of what's authentic and what is not. How illuminating of you. So where did you arrive at direct experience of Christian contemplation? Have you submitted yourself to the teachings of a Catholic or Orthodox priest/theologian of the church? Do you follow a Catholic or Orthodox sacramental life? Do you claim to have a teacher/starets of noetic prayer? If you cannot declare your allegiance to one of these essential ingredients of Christian contemplative life then you only know about it from something you've read. If so, then you don't know what you are talking about in this realm. If you do have a Christian contemplative teacher, then who is it? Confess or shut up your pompous posturing. Oh look, the inquisition showed up!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
Bravo Robindra! You get the Histrionic Personality award for 2011! Lady Gaga will be playing in your honor (it's actually a gay guy in drag, but hey, I couldn't tell the difference). Mhrvelous darling, simply marvelous. I do wish you'd place a rotating video of your visage on YouTube so would could admire you after each email such as this. Ta ta... On Dec 14, 2011, at 10:53 AM, maskedzebra wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: Dear Robin(and all the entities who can read this post), Obbajeeba: Au contraire. The heart of wisdom has many definitions. Such as the phrase, Heart of the problem. Robin: Granted, obbajeeba; but the point is: *what did obbajeeba intend to convey to FFL readers by this expression*? Of course you *could* have meant something other than what I took you to mean, but in what follows here it is clear you meant what I thought you to mean. Good morning, by the way. Obbajeeba: The appearance you have suggested may be accurate for many. The hind leg of an elephant does not reflect the use of the trunk. Robin: But the elephant's heart can be seen in the way he waves his trunk. Obbajeeba: Curtis has instructed Ravi of something an elder has experienced. Robin: No 'instruc[ion] here, obbajeeba. Curtis was not dispensing advice. He was using this incident as a Trojan Horse, and all the while he was purportedly 'instructing' Ravi, he was actually trying to rip out his entrails. Trust me on this one, obbajeeba: I know Curtis, and I know his agenda. And don't worry: I always make sure I am appreciating what Curtis is, and what he has been, all the while I am entering into what Curtis is in the last moment. Obbajeeba: The winner may be seeking revenge, although the wisdom came from reflecting experience from his own. This, I give him credit for. Robin: You are confused here, obbajeeba: Revenge is morally incompatible with imparting wisdom. Because the 'wisdom' comes in as the bone to distract the reader's attention, so that the robber can steal something valuable. And then, once the reader (the watchdog of the mind of the FFL reader) is finished chewing on the bone, he doesn't even realize what's missing from his personal belongings. Ravi: the FFL reader, without necessarily being conscious of this has had his image of Ravi altered. Ravi's mystique, it has been blotted out. Curtis is far more ruthless and aggressive than the fey swami. Obbajeeba: No different than a parent screaming at their teenage children, ONE DAY, YOU WILL HAVE CHILDREN OF YOUR OWN! A sweet revenge with love in their hearts, yet wishing the same dismal fate of themselves. A sorry mistake as you will get yours because I tried to help you and expected respect from the level I know best. : ) Robin: This won't do at all, I'm afraid, dear obbajeeba. Curtis was masterfully in control of himself in every word he chose in his post. No parent he. He wasn't admonishing, warning, upbraiding Ravi— and he certainly wasn't screaming at Ravi (as a parent might to a wayward or obstinate child). Curtis was surgically castrating Ravi— and you didn't even notice. You only paid attention to the content; meanwhile, Curtis's meta-context appropriation was missed altogether. But afterwards—and even now—you are inside Curtis's context. As you will discover for yourself if you try to reread Ravi's initial response to my second open letter: you will see that your present experience bears almost no relation to your first experience: Ravi, as it were, *has* been explained. We are therefore in the benefit of Curtis's imposition of reality upon us. My second open letter is made superfluous. Of what interest is Ravi Chivukula after Curtis's post? I think once every FFL reader read (and experienced) what Curtis wrote, Ravi was a dead mystic, of little interest or fascination. Such is the power of Curtis context- eating. Curtis has been disrespected all over the place by Ravi: see his comments about Curtis's impenetrable POV—he deconstructs Curtis in his impulsive and irresponsible way. But don't think that Curtis was not stung by Ravi's piercing judgment of him. When Ravi posted out, Curtis had his moment, and he leaped on the now defenceless Ravi, and felt the jugular vein between his teeth. Obbajeeba: The last word can only be until Ravi returns. Bob Price returning could happen at any moment and I am sure Curtis is aware of this enough. If Judy was here, she too would pick that post with a toothpick. Robin: Oh, obbajeeba: these are just words and scenarios that mean nothing to you right now. These contingencies do not bear upon the issue here at all. So what? Curtis's time was now; he took it; and these other adversaries will face an altered reality when they attempt—if in fact they do—to scrutinize this brilliant assassination of Ravi. She too would pick that post
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:25 PM, maskedzebra wrote: I am so tempted to appear on BatGap though; and that would suffice for the video you are seeking. Yes, I hope you're able to make the cut. I often wondered why you hadn't appeared, but I understand Rick has quite a backlog of interviewees. But the way, is there any chance you think of someone so unbeautiful as Newt actually getting to be President? I actually know Newt's family. They're not what I'd consider good people. He'll never withstand the scrutiny - I mean the guy's got more baggage than a 747. Magic underwear guy's the better choice (for Republican types). It would be like having Donny Osmond for President. But Obama's gonna be the winner, no doubt.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
Wow. If that's not the most disturbing, droolingly rabid TM True Believer post I've ever read, I don't know what is. Are you really that naive? Haven't you read any of the research on ACTUAL deep meditation? Doesn't the Catholic church have deprogrammers like we saw in The Exorcist or The Rite? Sheesh Robin, I didn't think there were any TB's left like this! Actually I remember YOU sending in MUM students to the dome to practice a different technique - so you have to have some understanding as to what that would do - although the rationale then was that they were invoking some demonic egregore, which you felt you could disrupt and confront. The ice cream of TM melted years ago. It's not our fault you never were able to wash your hands. On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:08 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Darling Obbajeeba, I can't get rid of the hate in my heart, so please bear with me while I attack you without cause. Did you watch Ellen Degeneres open that David Lynch Foundation event? And did you read Bob Price's wife's post attempting to persuade Emily to start Transcendental Meditation? And do you recall when TM for you was the best thing going—before the 1980's, that is? (By the way, I am going to assume you are an initiator; if you are not then some of my comments here are not, for you, completely on the mark.) No one could see anything about Ellen Degeneres (or for that matter in Martin Scorsese's comments) or in 'Mrs. Price's' commentary which would imply any kind of influence over their own individualism and originality. TM is the most subtle and efficacious technique there is to produce a blissful experience, and the most subtle kind of changes—almost immediately—in one's personal life. If you listen to Ellen read what Mrs. Price says in her post, you realize that TM, mechanically and efficaciously considered, beats any other spiritual technique in existence—I would even say (from an Eastern point of view) ever. The fact that in doing TM one does not change anything about oneself in terms of one's own values, beliefs, or life style—and Ellen when she extolled the benefits of TM was as convincing and persuasive as anyone could be—likewise when 'Mrs Price' wrote her letter to Emily— is something without precedent. There is no 'technique' that I know of which is not wedded to some belief system in the very practising of that technique. Not so TM. Transcendental Meditation, therefore, in my opinion, obbajeeba, is sui generis, intrinsically unique, like nothing else. Doing TM does not resemble doing anything else. There is—this is my argument based upon empirical evidence—absolutely no cross-pollination with any other technique or forms of meditation. In fact, I contend that whatever alternative spiritual tradition a former TMer turns to— especially a former initiator—he or she will approach, and even practise—and evaluate—that new technique *entirely in terms of their pervious experience of Transcendental Meditation*. TM is not just different, obbajeeba; it is distinct and separate from everything else spiritually in existence. This is why Rick Archer always comes off—to me at least—as so much more conversant with the religious forms of experience, with spiritual reality, with how to understand states of consciousness than any of his guests (except for the TM ones: like Phil Goldberg and Dana Sawyer). Despite turning from TM and Maharishi, his nervous system has been schooled in the TM-Maharishi-Guru Dev universe, and this shows through at every level of himself. Even as he now professes to have a more authentic religious experience through his relationship with Mata Amritanandamayi (Amma: the Hugging Saint) than he did with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. Every one of us keen initiators, throughout the early and mid seventies, would have been nonplussed by any TM teacher trying to make the argument you make here. It wouldn't make sense to us. We did not just abide by what Maharishi had told us about guarding the purity of The Teaching; we felt it in our very soul. It was so manifestly clear to us that TM was something absolutely special, and could never be compared to anything that had been offered in our lifetime [our present one :-)] We acted on behalf of this notion of No Saints scrupulously, but not, as I say, out of deference to Maharishi; we could intuitively, deeply, feel the necessity of this. After all, what Master had produced the experience that Mother is at Home? What Master could allow us to confirm for ourselves that we were getting The Support of Nature? What other Master could deliver on his promise that once we became initiators, we could give to some other human being, a perfect stranger, this ultimate transcendent experience? The Checking Notes themselves—the Checking Procedure as memorized and applied—are more dazzlingly and perfectly efficient than
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
God is a concept by which we measure our pain. John Lennon On Dec 12, 2011, at 10:55 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Life can educate one to belief in God. And experiences too are what bring this about; but I don't mean visions and other forms of sense experience which show us the 'existence of this being', but e.g. sufferings of various sorts. These neither show us God in the way a sense impression shows us an object, nor do they give rise to conjectures about him. Experiences, thoughts,—life can force this concept on us. Wittgenstein
Re: [FairfieldLife] Portrait of a Saint
On Dec 13, 2011, at 8:20 AM, maskedzebra wrote: Quiet and simple, but not slovenly; most humble, without any meanness of spirit; noble and generous, grave and courteous, superior to all that is earthy, despising what is perishable, his gaze fixed on what will remain for ever unchanged, guiding himself in all things, great or small, by the most perfect standards; master of all his feelings, even in their first movements, and therefore showing externally and continuously that imperturbable peace in the midst of which his soul steadily shaped its course to the eternal shores. . . . one notes especially a prudence more than human, and a love of God, and of his neighbour for God, which consumed his heart with its seraphic and sweet fires. . . [His letters] show us a mind sure, vast, profound, comprehensive, fitted for speculation or action. In the management of men or affairs, he stands eminent among the foremost the world has known. His judgement was clear and solid, With sure vision he read the hearts of men, and detected accurately the twistings and turnings, the ins and outs, of their minds. He possessed a marvellous discretion in treating all characters, classes, and conditions. Mature deliberation, firmness of resolve, skill in counsel, compelling persuasion, vigorous execution, were his. He showed courage in facing difficult undertakings, and perseverance in carrying them through, constancy in supporting adversity, and resourcefulness ins surmounting obstacles. He was ready at all points, grasped all details, knew when to give way and when to insist, to yield or hold fast, as circumstances indicated, to show severity or mildness, condescension or determination, as the case required. There burned in him a zeal, active, ardent, indefatigable, always meditating enterprises, battles, and victories to spread the greater glory of God . . . And all this was united with an unalterable sweetness and gentleness, ennobled by a largeness of heart, which rose above all labours or success, beautified by that noble and delicate urbanity, characteristic of _ chivalry of his day, enlightened by supernatural illumination of heavenly wisdom. Anyone guess who this is? Coach Sandusky?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 11, 2011, at 2:53 AM, sparaig wrote: Well, you see, I think it is YOU who are missing MMY's nuances here. Certainly stress can have good and bad qualities (eustress and distress). However, anything that pulls one away from the quality of functioning of the nervous system where pure consciousness is always present, is stressful. That doesn't mean that it can't be fun, beneficial in its own way etc. only that it isn't pure consciousness. Of course, the point of the TM *program* is to alternate meditation, which approaches the state of pure consciousness, with regular activity, which is inherently stressful, so that eventually one can be in a state where pure consciousness is never lost. This doesn't mean that activity will cease to be stressful in the western sense, only that the nervous system has become strong enough to maintain pure consciousness, at least during relatively stressful activity. In a sense, you could say that all activity has become eustress- ish, though, of course, some activity is more inherently eustressful than other activity. I think you're missing what Mahesh was trying to say. He was obviously attempting to put the idea of the purification of the nadis into terms that westerners could understand, and at the same time give it a veneer of respectability by attempting to make it look scientific. Two things though: the two are not reconcilable as there is no (none, zero, zip) science on nadi-bindu-vayu and stress and secondly Mahesh had little experiential knowledge of these deeper and essential practices. This becomes manifestly obvious if you listen to the tapes where M. tried to muddle his way thru these descriptions of stress in the nadis - which are most likely ripped straight out of Arthur Avalon's books. But it's clear he doesn't have a clue to what he's talking about, but it does lend further credence to the fact that he was prompted by western students prior to his revelations. Since he was caught at Estes Park doing this and we have evidence up and through the Swiss period, we know his knowledge was not self knowledge, but gleaned from common translations of tantric texts. So anyone who puts any validity into his unstressing schtick is just fooling themselves.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 11, 2011, at 3:04 AM, sparaig wrote: I like to cite my old friend Anoop Chandola, who is not only a Sanskrit/Hindu scholar, but has one very close family member who was part of the committee who selected SBS in the first place. Appeal to authority or argumentum ad verecundiam is a common logical fallacy.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 12, 2011, at 10:25 AM, sparaig wrote: Eh, as I said, I have a friend who is reasonably accomplished as a Vedic/Hindu scholar, who considers MMY to be the real deal. YMMV of course. You should send him a copy of David Wants to Fly. :-) And while your at it, you should also try to get a copy of the recent interview with SBS's successor. He's very clear: the person who created the recent problems re: Jyotir Math and who sowed the seeds of dissension there were none other than Mahesh Varma. What it boils down to in your friends case is true believers will believe anything. They're not actually interested in scholarship, but only what supports their acquired illusions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
On Dec 12, 2011, at 3:47 PM, maskedzebra wrote: You must help me out, Ravi, for I am more perplexed and stymied by a particular reality than I think I have ever been over anything I have experienced in my life. Well at least you're working on the absolute statements. Not! Let's see how many are in this stinker, the one above plus: Not one person at FFL—at least based upon my own close inspection—has, *to their own objectified and self-evident satisfaction*—found the secret mote in Ravi's eye, the cancer in his heart, the blackguard truth in his soul, the insanity in his mind. I would recommend, since you're presumably retired now Robindra, that you take a college class - perhaps just audit it - on Abnormal Psychology or, perhaps even better, buy a cheap copy of The Personality Self-Portrait: Why You Think, Work, Love, and Act the Way You Do by John Oldham, then get back to us. Hey, it would make a great Xmas gift for Ravi. My point is, if Ravi's problems aren't glaringly obvious, you're either not very observant or your trying to over-intellectualize him (or possibly over-romanticize things) beyond recognition. You see, no one at FFL has figured out—I certainly haven't—the cause and effect principle of the RTM. Read: I can't figure you out, so no one else has. I, on the other hand, think many have. There are no forensics when it comes to investigating one of Ravi's psychologically illegal acts. Or maybe you're missing them? It's like you're third eye blind. Which isn't to say you were ever that intuitive - that I noticed: high on draaama, love on intuition. Really, the more I read over your…encyclicals…the more I see the same Robindra, at a chair, on a stage, still pointing that same finger - but via the abstractions of email conversations. Other than that IT'S THE EXACT SAME SCHTICK. It's as if everyone left the room and the internet connection was the only thing left... Nobody at FFL in my estimation—No, not even you, sweet Barry—nor you, puissant Curtis—has the slightest notion of what is going on with Ravi Chivukula. sigh No Robindra, if you can't see, then no one can. Isn't that what this is really about? We have several psychologists on this list and at least one psychiatrist and I can guarantee you they have not only a running list, a lot of it would jive with mine. It least it has in the past with some of the players her on FFL. OK, so only five that I could find. Do you feel this is an improvement?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
Dear Robindranath: On Dec 12, 2011, at 6:18 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Dear Vaj, Your fantasizing, I see, extends even into the living moment. Take for instance, your comments here. You have provided no personal, experiential, even intellectually believed evidence for one to assume you have 'figured out' Ravi Chivukula. Robindra - you dipshit - that was the *point*, to leave a deliberate vacuum. Like the unanswered question(s) you keep desperately begging. Your insinuation that you have, remains just an invisible simulacrum of reality: you have no conviction about Ravi that you would submit as the truth—say, on point of death. You don't believe in your own words, Vaj, as these words, have the assumed appearance of having constructed some kind of argument that would have us believe you know all about the intra-personal mechanics of Ravi and the RTM. Actually, I have considerable (but not absolute Carlsenian) certainty. It's a relative thing. And that's fine. If it makes you squirm out more letters, is that my problem…or yours? I would argue that the vacuity was actually always on your side. I merely pointed it out. Now that infamous finger is pointing…again. It is the very same with Transcendental Meditation, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and your status as a former TM initiator. At least now you have provided—unlike Ravi—the unequivocal experimental evidence of what your problem is: you live in an unreal world. If you would declare from you heart that you believed in a single thing you have said here—in the same way you believe that your mother loved or loves you; that you enjoyed your first romantic kiss; that you felt the sensation of finally learning to ride bicycle—if what you say in this post has *any* resemblance to any of these experiences, then I would have to take you seriously, Vaj. LOL, oh OK! Not enuff draaahma? As it is, you are writing into the exact same context which enables you to blithely carry on talking about your TM and initiator expertise, when in fact, these things do not have any real existence for you whatsoever. Actually, you're simply changing the context here to one of your own obsessions. I did not mention nor did I imply anything of the kind. This is ALL your projection - a phantom you constantly invoke. And you've never provided so much as a quote, an email, nothing I've said onmy own to even present a question worth answering! Just this constant 'begging of the question'. I suspect very much that any similar WTS participant (victim?) would get a similar treatment (unless a favored, certified non-demonic one), a friend. These types of disconnects we call non sequiturs (note: this is different from a Steinian non sequitur, which is when a person cannot understand an implication, often due to not adhering the linear laws of Flatland). But more than this, Vaj: you cannot even summon up the bluff and bravado and appropriate subjective response—that defines us as human beings—in the face of these challenges to the veracity of your claims. You don't even defend yourself. This is telling. [But this no-defence is itself no defence: don't pull the supreme disinterestedness argument here, Vaj: you would be a total idiot to do this. But if you must, go ahead. You can tell me you are Guru Dev's grandson, and I would have to assign to this claim the same status as I would if you claim you are not defending yourself here because of some imperturbable state of spiritual equilibrium.] Oh Robindra. You FFL youngster. Who are you to define my disinterestedness? And the same goes for what you say here in this post. Now it would be very different if I did in fact sense that you were someone with a definitive and sincere 'take' or interpretation of Ravi Chivukula. You see, Vaj: *I would feel this*. What, no callouses of former demonic confrontation? There comes a certain point, where you can just sit back, and observe. About the only thing that would 'perturb' me at this point is another Ravi suicide, feel-sorry-for-me routine. Take the music videos that are posted here: like Keith Jarrett at Koln: if you can listen to that music—absorb it into your nervous system—and start posting to me, making the same assertions that you have in this post, without removing yourself from the innocent receptivity of listening to Keith Jarrett—so as to appreciate him—then I am refuted. OK. But I gotta tell you - Keith J. is kinda passé for me. What's next, Abba? You see, Vaj, it is very simple. You have pretended here that you do in fact have some visceral or psychological 'feel' for the phenomenon that is Ravi Chivukula. Well duh. I've been here a bit longer than you - and after a half a dozen or so look Ma, I'm enlightened TM or Amma types, you kinda get used to it. Esp. if you saw it (uh-hum)...previously.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 12, 2011, at 8:10 PM, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: The current successor wasn't even at the ashram when SBS died, He was studying with another guru. Smart man. It's never good to be attached.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: SECOND Open [non-performance] Letter to Ravi Chivukula
Hey Robin, Try to have some respect for what Ravi's going through. If you honestly care, you'll realize things like this are best discussed off list. This isn't a public laundromat. On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:59 PM, maskedzebra no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hey, Vaj: Would you consider telling me what your diagnosis is of Ravi Chivukula? Since you claim to have an explanation for his behaviour, how about doing me the courtesy of giving your interpretation of Ravi Chivukula—simply to disprove my claim that no one at FFL has confidence that they have understood the causal basis of Ravi's Transgressive Mode (RTM). Since your whole thesis (at least in your previous post) is to contradict my contention that Ravi Chivukula defies any common sense understanding, I think it only fair that you disabuse me of my fixation, since my concern here (according to you) is entirely misplaced and ridiculous. I am begging you, Vaj: Robin wants to be able to fit Ravi Chivukula into his metaphysical paradigm: you can help me do this by telling me what Ravi Chivukula is all about. And what I want here, is what you promised me is the truth; namely, that you have a specific *experience* and understanding of what Ravi is up to—and why. Please just give me the broad outlines of your personal experience of Ravi Chivukula so that I can at least make contact with one person who 'gets' him. This will put a stop to this whole controversy. At least it will for me. Tell us now, Vaj: what gives with the Ravi boy? And please, use some of your powers of persuasion which draw upon your real experience. Don't make it up. Because we will know the difference. All what you say below has nothing to do with the issue:either of Ravi Chivukula, or myself. So, you do not intend to climb that mountain, then, Vaj? Believe me, the view is much better from up here. Your pal, Robin
Re: [FairfieldLife] An Open 'Performance' Letter to Ravi Chivukula
Robin, you do realize each time you make these absolute pronouncements - or encyclicals - you end up retracting most of it? This is a very old pattern. It hasn't changed a wink. It would be nice to have seen you strike some sort of balance between old Robin and the allegedly new Robin. But the odd thing is, I don't see much of a new Robin, just old Robindranath the Bore with a thin, transparent veneer of heretical Catholicism. In many, many ways you differ little from a TM TB - except for the insistence that TM transcending somehow engenders and then delivers some deceitful, deva-engendered state of consciousness. On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:57 AM, maskedzebra wrote: Dear Ravi, I am going to do a Ravi on you! The way you approached raunchydog, Alex, Rick, Steve, Jim, even Judy (have I left anyone out?), I am going to approach *you*. Now of course I cannot imitate you—that would take an acting skill I doubt anyone has; but what I can do—see if you can understand this:—is *in being Robin towards you, essentially do what you attempted to do with these various persons*. I am going to use the Ravi technique of confrontation. I think I followed you quite acutely—even metaphysically—in each of these controversial and incendiary posts. I aim to pull off addressing you what you were perhaps attempting to pull off addressing them. Now you must not mistake me here: I will be just as bold and audacious as you were; but at the same time—reading you as fairly as I can—I am going to try to produce a particular response/reaction in yourself which will be like the one you provoked, say, in—to take two examples—Rick and raunchydog, although only the latter actually spent energy and intelligence on getting back at you. Now I don't know how you will respond to this Ravi experiment performed through Robin, but I can assure you it will be interesting. And you will have to assume that I am being absolutely sincere; even if you—and I suppose almost every FFL reader—will not go along in the least with what I am saying. It will be, then, a kind of *performance*, but I shall stay in contact with whatever muses inspire me, for if I lose this inspiration the whole exercise will just fall flat. I aim to keep my performance going from beginning to end. But this is a warning: you will not get what you expect, what you could even imagine. And I think this was the experience that *some* of these other persons got when they received their posts from you. So, then, Ravi, consider me an honourable person with the very best of motives. I don't pretend I am going to persuade you of the 'truth' of what I am about to do; that is not what I am about here. Certainly I will write what I feel is true; however my intention will be to precipitate in you something uncontrollable reactive, something, then, which bypasses every defence you have; even trangresses ultimate taboos—something I know you are very familiar with in your violent rhapsodies here at FFL. You claim to act, in some fundamental way, out of love. Permit me the same unspoken premise. I will act of out of love here, or at least out of the deepest of my convictions; but *not*, I emphasize *not*, out of some desire to clarify myself intellectually. Remember, Ravi: this is a performance—as I believe your various posts were. You found yourself moving in on each person and you elicited, I believe, exactly the response you anticipated you would. So, now you must prepare (and even the gentle readers of FFL must prepare) for a radical and outrageous and trangressive performance. There. Are you ready, Ravi? I hope so, because once I begin, in order for this experiment to 'work' you have to keep reading to the very end. And I should say right at the outset: *I am going to improvise my way into this and right through to its conclusion*. Now remember (this is *very* important): my intent is not to edify or persuade or argue *through content*; my ambition is to employ a certain dramatic mode of ambush which, in some way—at the level of principle at least—is the same as what you do—and even what you did to me when I first came onto FFL. Most readers at FFL will not like what I have to say. But they should recollect: I am in the act of performing with Ravi as my audience. I am not aspiring to make myself understood or even reasonable. The sweeping generalizations which I am about to make will offend. But it must be remembered: I want to shock. Ready, Ravi? I am starting right now. Your video tape disproves entirely and absolutely the primacy of the existence the beloved, your 'realization', your spiritual mystical experience. I don't say that you do not experience that you have gone into another state of consciousness, that your sense of the holiness of what has happened to you isn't true. I just say that it is essentially irrelevant to the business, the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fascinating Facts About Smiles - mindful smiling
On Dec 11, 2011, at 10:08 AM, sparaig wrote: There's an entire tradition that relates every syllable in sanskrit to some part of the body in some therapeutic way. I don't recall which syllable relates to the knee, but apparently tradition holds that there is one. Cha-ching.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Billy Bob makes it up...again
On Dec 9, 2011, at 10:19 PM, wgm4u anitaoak...@att.net wrote: Essentially, the prana (kundalini serpent fire) must be awakened and rise to the 6th and 7th chakra for enlightenment to occur. Whether that is done through mantra meditation OR concentration (like Patanjali taught) is secondary, both work according to Swami Yogananda, he believes concentration is more effective because it deals directly with the prana (pranaYama=prana control). The important thing that occurs after bindu-bhedhana is the dissolution of ones samskaras and the balanced witness-consciousness that remains uninvolved while the subcoscious unloads it's baggage. Then, after the unloading occurs, the student can get skaktipat.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 9, 2011, at 6:59 PM, richardnelson108 wrote: Hey Vaj, Just got sround to reading your post on this. I continue to amazed (I guess I shouldn't be at this point) about how egocentric you are. I mean there you are sitting in your ivory tower making your high and mighty statements about how much you know about transcending and everything else you talk about regarding buddhism, the hindu and shankaracharya tradition etc., and you really believe you know more about this stuff than Maharishi did. Hi Richard. I cannot say what all Mahesh knew, I can only comment on the techniques he's presented and sold, and more specifically the ones I'd tried when I was younger. At this juncture in time it's important to point out two vital things: we now know that Mahesh was not a yogi, he also had no lineal teacher-student relationship with Swami Brahmananda Saraswati. With these facts now out in the open, it does help explain the lack of knowledge and wisdom in his teachings. Although that doesn't subtract from his considerable marketing prowess and his use of various knowledgable consultants. His list of consultants is a kind of 'who's who' of late 20th cent. Hinduism. If you can't get SBS as you guru, you can at least buy the guru of your choice in India. Listen, we all know that MMY was far from perfect, but yet he was respected and loved by some of the greatest saints of India including Lakshmanjoo, Ananda Moy MA and Muktananda It's important to point out that a lot of what you've been lead to believe was other saints glowing approval of Mahesh has more to do with the types of things Hindu saints say about anyone. They're often very positive and say nice things about most everyone. But we shouldn't make the mistake of assuming this means they're giving tacit approval. They're in actuality often fulfilling vows they've taken which prevents them from saying anything negative about other teachers. and yet according to you he is a know nothing charlatan. I think he was actually a knowledgeable business man with a deep interest and love of eastern occultism. Maybe you can explain why they all seemed to be very happy with him? Oh wait, I forgot ...you never deal with any criticism. You just disappear for a while until you can jump in again all high and mighty with your superior knowledge to enlighten us. OK, I'll just wait for more pearls of wisdom coming oour way from Which remarks of mine are you inquiring about Richard?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 9, 2011, at 7:24 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@... wrote: Hey Vaj, Just got sround to reading your post on this. I continue to amazed (I guess I shouldn't be at this point) about how egocentric you are. I mean there you are sitting in your ivory tower making your high and mighty statements about how much you know about transcending and everything else you talk about regarding buddhism, the hindu and shankaracharya tradition etc., and you really believe you know more about this stuff than Maharishi did. I don't know about Vaj, what he thinks about Maharishi is not necessarily my opinion. Yet Maharishi himself called the transcendence in TM only 'hazy', not final, what Vaj is saying is just the same from a different perspective. It is also true, that TM, through the use of the mantra, is substituting negative with positive samskaras, something alluded to in the Yogasutras. Maharishi greatly simplified all the teachings. It's okay if you take it like that, but it's also okay for some others to try looking a little further, and see the whole thing in a larger context, alluding to the traditions from which he drew. Thanks for acknowledging that Zarzari. I simply did what I think any other reasonable human being would have done: investigate the systems of practice and philosophies of mantra experientially in order to gain the broadest most undiluted perspective I could find, until I got the answers to all of my questions. Once you do that, and look back at practices you've done in the past, you see them in a very different light in some cases. What hardcore TMers would prefer is that I still maintain the boilerplate spiels I learned to spew on TM, rather than be true to my own POV. They desperately want me to not speak from that new perspective, but continue to regurgitate the schtick they continue to roll over in their minds, as a source of comfortable illusion. When you point out those illusions, it can create difficulty because it takes considerable effort to maintain these illusions - and, in fact, you've long believed the illusion were true. It's really uncomfortable when this is done at a time when other illusions about MMY are being exposed and made conscious to the world.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 9, 2011, at 7:56 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: For example, after Muktananda left Seelisberg, on the way out touching a few TMers, thereby giving them Shaktipath, so that they would follow him, is reported to have said: Everybody is talking about enlightenment there, but nobody knows what they are talking about. Then you forgot to mention Krishnamurti or Osho. Bottomline is: whatever so called enlightened say is not always in agreement with each other, they say it for various reasons, and it cannot be used like Hollywood namedropping. That all enlightened agree with Maharishi and say how great he is, is only a sweet illusion for TB's Very interesting. It would be nice to have a more direct quote of Muktananda. Is that possible? Has it survived? Muktananda actually gives a very beautiful description of bindu-bhedana in his Play of Consciousness.
Re: [FairfieldLife] How To Dump A Dick
On Dec 9, 2011, at 6:54 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Vaj: If it makes you feel better, a group of your students got an audience with one of Guru Dev's disciples to ask what the f*ck was up with you? He said you'd been fried by a blast of kundalini in Arosa. I think that also explains the aforementioned wisp of smoke that Thomas saw. Just sayin'. Robin: That, then, clears the whole thing up, Vaj. Thanks. And thanks to this Guru Dev disciple. Any way you can get back to him to express my gratitude? After he was convicted of molesting young children, he fled into Mexico, and from there they believe into Central or South America. In TM terms, he's on pilgrimage. If I find out where he is, I'll probably notify the authorities in Texas first. Jai Guru Dev. There was no 'Thomas' by the way on the mountain in Arosa, Switzerland. Although I do know a Thomas, and he is a good guy. But this wisp of smoke business? never heard of it. I do, however, carry around a Chinese appliance wherever I go. Perhaps that was literally what this Thomas fellow saw, as you say, short circuiting. But it wasn't at Arosa. It must have been when I came down from the mountain to liberate Western Civilization. My apologies. It's been a long time. It was a bad joke.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
On Dec 10, 2011, at 4:09 PM, zarzari_786 wrote: How do you know what he *wants*? Maybe he does, but do you really know his intention? Maybe he just has a sort of creative stroke, so he posts one sentence after the other. In case you haven't noticed yet, that's one of Judy's MO's: she mind reads what people are doing - typically what she falsely believes people are thinking and/or doing - and then bases her (baseless) arguments on these (false) claims. It's one of the many ways Judy's dishonesty is very clever. Most people ignore it, but Curtis in particular used to call her on it, till he got sick of it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Swami Rama: Our Tradition
On Dec 10, 2011, at 7:48 PM, zarzari_786 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Vaj, I think it is good you provide the sources for the points you just made. They weren't intended as sources per se, but as examples. Fortunately such examples exist, because there's much that cannot be spoken of due to vows. Among many other things, I like this last paragraph of Swami Rama especially. It also touches on the thing you just mentioned, which is typical of indian sages, as they may have taken vows not to talk negative about other religions or masters. I have learned this point especially by coming across a Jain teaching, who places great emphasis on non-violence, exactly in the way as described below. This teaching of non-violence, with respect to religion means that you will not condemn any religious teaching or insult anybody like a nun or a monk from a different sect. It is an important mindset to cultivate, which does not mean that one has to agree with everything, any religion says, quite obviously, but it means accepting the reality of different believers as different facets of one greater truth. Well, there is a dark side to such beliefs and one is that molestations and criminal behavior can go on unreported. Satya Sai Baba is a great example. So is Swami Rama for that matter. So for situations like this HH the Dalai Lama says when a practioner is involved in such egregious behavior, it needs to be made known via the media. If you hurt somebodies emotions, with regard to his deepest convictions, is like a physical agression. It creates karma, and will continue to do so. When people or large groups of people are being harmed, such vows cannot be used to help them hide behind.
[FairfieldLife] Neuroscientists boost memory using genetics and a new memory-enhancing drug
Neuroscientists boost memory using genetics and a new memory- enhancing drug December 8th, 2011 in Neuroscience When the activity of a molecule that is normally elevated during viral infections is inhibited in the brain, mice learn and remember better, researchers at Baylor College of Medicine reported in a recent article in the journal Cell. The molecule PKR (the double-stranded RNA-activated protein kinase) was originally described as a sensor of viral infections, but its function in the brain was totally unknown, said Dr. Mauro Costa- Mattioli, assistant professor of neuroscience at BCM and senior author of the paper. Since the activity of PKR is altered in a variety of cognitive disorders, Costa-Mattioli and colleagues decided to take a closer look at its role in the mammalian brain. The authors discovered that mice lacking PKR in the brain have a kind of super memory. We found that when we genetically inhibit PKR, we increased the excitability of brain cells and enhanced learning and memory, in a variety of behavioral tests, he said. For instance, when the authors assessed spatial memory (the memory for people, places and events) through a test in which mice use visual cues for finding a hidden platform in a circular pool, they found that normal mice had to repeat the task multiple times over many days in order to remember the platform's location. By contrast, mice lacking PKR learned the task after only one training session. Costa-Mattioli and colleagues wanted to know how this molecular process actually works. They found that when PKR is inhibited, the increased synaptic activity (that is, the enhanced communication between neurons) is caused by gamma interferon, another molecule involved in immunity. These data are totally unexpected, and show that two molecules classically known to play a role in viral infection and the immune response regulate the kind of brain activity that leads to the formation of long-term memory in the adult brain, said Costa-Mattioli. Another key finding made by Costa-Mattioli and his team of researchers was the fact that this process could be mimicked by a PKR inhibitor - a small molecule that blocks PKR activity and thus acts as a memory-enhancing drug. It is indeed quite amazing that we can also enhance both memory and brain activity with a drug that specifically targets PKR. Definitely then, the next step is to use what we have learned in mice and to try to improve brain function in people suffering from memory loss, said Costa-Mattioli. Although Costa-Mattioli's memory pill may be years away from approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, its impact on society and medicine could be very profound. There are roughly 6 million Americans and 35 million people world-wide with Alzheimer's disease and more than 70 million Americans over the age of 60 who may suffer from aged-associated impairment of memory. Costa-Mattioli said, More investigation is undoubtedly necessary to translate these findings to effective therapies but we would be delighted if our scientific studies were to contribute in some way to this ultimate goal. Our identity and uniqueness is made up of our memories, Costa- Mattioli said. This molecule could hold the key to how we can keep our memories longer, but also how we create new ones. Provided by Baylor College of Medicine Neuroscientists boost memory using genetics and a new memory- enhancing drug. December 8th, 2011. http://medicalxpress.com/news/ 2011-12-neuroscientists-boost-memory-genetics-memory-enhancing.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 9, 2011, at 10:29 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Dec 5, 2011, at 8:04 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Oh, good. I'll just have to revise my experience so it conforms with your analysis. Actually we've all already been pre-programmed to believe in the stress release, unstressing, model is factually correct. Each time we transcend we're chipping away at those stresses in our nervous system. So I believe most of us who were indoctrinated into TM would chose as you did. Actually, the current theory of how TM works is that it sets up a situation in the thalamus that inhibits the thalamo-coritical feedback loops that scientists believe are what we experience as thoughts. This allows the brain to relax into a default mode of functioning where it is still alert, but literally not thinking about much of anything. The stronger the inhibition, the less thinking tha is done. Coincidentally, the default mode of functioning that results is where the front part of the brain and the back part of the brain are most easily able to communicate with each other. This is the exact opposite of stress, which tends to interfere with the communication between the front and back parts of the brain. The only problem with such theories is Lawson that TM is really only an elementary practice of mantra meditation. From the POV of the actual mantra tradition, the subtlest level of mantra in TM - the point where one still has some abstract feeling of the mantra before reaching what TMers believe is the transcendent - is 512 times more gross than the subtlest level of mantra reached before the mind is actually transcended - what is known as the unmana stage. In order to even access those levels of subtlety one needs to complete the piercing of the bindu (bindu-bhedana) and master further levels of practice. This level of subtlety simply does not exist in TM. So theories that are in effect based on iterations of the grossest levels of mind are not really, ultimately, of much value except to the indoctrinated TM crowd, and those they can still fool. As I've said many times, you need to transcend the transcendent (what's believed to be transcendent in TM) to even begin to approach the actual full transcendence of mind. Once that level is attained, then some interesting research could be done. However since the 'canon of awakening in TM' was effectively frozen with the death of MMY, that point will never be reached. It's also therefore a fact that all TM research can only ever be of minor interest to serious consciousness researchers.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vag makes it upagain
On Dec 9, 2011, at 1:47 PM, emptybill wrote: Those stages of subtly are common stages discussed in Tantric Deity yoga and in Kashmiri Trika Shaiva teachings. They're also used in the Shankaracharya tradition, which uses the approach of tantra, leading to nondual contemplation. This is the path of SBS. The bottom line is, if the bindu is not pierced and the ajna is not bridged, the road to samadhi and full transcendence can never occur. I realize this must be hard for you. All that hyperventilating! You purposely left out the conclusions of Svami Lakshman Joo, the last Trika guru from Kashmir, a friend of MMY. He fully endorsed the transcending process of TM. In fact, MMY got some of his understanding from SKJ. He may or may not have recognized it. But I doubt he would have recognized it as any more than a preliminary. Selective editing, on your part, of the teachings and relationships here, simply proves that you have no objectivity. No editing whatsoever - it's TM instruction that edits out the full teaching, which isn't to imply it was ever known by Mahesh. Veritas liberat...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How To Dump A Dick
On Dec 9, 2011, at 3:38 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Yes, it certainly does, Barry, you bastard, you. You mean me, right? My condition is going to deteriorate if you keep this up, Barry: on the one hand saying I am pathological; on the other hand acting as if it's a all right to make fun of a mental case like me. I don't get it, Barry; I just don't get it. Have a heart: knock off this razzing of Robin. If you be nice to me, I will start to be nice to you. Deal? I think, by the way, it was mean of you to make fun of me like this. And I think you intensify the pathology. If you were me, Barry, what would you do in the face of the powerful mocking of yourself—by someone such as yourself? You must tell me. Is anyone going to help me here? If it makes you feel better, a group of your students got an audience with one of Guru Dev's disciples to ask what the f*ck was up with you? He said you'd been fried by a blast of kundalini in Arosa. I think that also explains the aforementioned wisp of smoke that Thomas saw. Just sayin'. So you could just think of it as a short circuit, right? I mean, this happens to these new Chinese kitchen appliances ALL THE TIME. So, I can, you know, kinda relate. But I wouldn't throw you in the trash...and I bet Barry wouldn't either. Keep your chin up Robinda.
[FairfieldLife] Swami Rama: Our Tradition
Our Tradition Shankaracharya established an ascetic order 1,200 years ago, though renunciates had already lived in an unbroken lineage from the Vedic period. He organized his orders through five main centers in the North, East, South, West, and center of India. The entire ascetic order of India traces its tradition from one of these centers. Our tradition is Bharati. Bha means “knowledge”; rati means “lover.” Bharati means “he who is the lover of knowledge.” From this comes the word Bharata, the land of spiritual knowledge, one of the Sanskrit names used for India. There is one thing unique to our tradition. It links itself to an unbroken lineage of sages even beyond Shankara. Our Himalayan tradition, though a tradition of Shankara, is purely ascetic, and is practiced in the Himalayan caves rather than being related with institutions established in the plains of India. In our tradition learning of the Upanishads is very important, along with the special advanced spiritual practices taught by the sages. The Mandukya Upanishad is accepted as one of the authoritative scriptures. The knowledge of Sri Vidya is imparted stage by stage and the advanced student is taught Prayoga Shastra [which explains the practicality and application of the discipline one has to follow for this knowledge]. We believe in both the Mother and the Father principles of the universe. That which is called maya, or illusion, in our worship becomes the Mother and does not remain as a stumbling block or obstacle on the path of spiritual enlightenment. All of our worship is internal and we do not perform any rituals. There are three stages of initiation given according to our tradition. First: mantra, breath awareness, and meditation; second: inner worship of Sri Vidya and bindu bhedana (piercing the pearl of wisdom); third: shaktipata and leading the force of kundalini to the thousand-petaled lotus called the sahasrara chakra. At this stage we do not associate ourselves with any particular religion, caste, sex, or color. Such yogis are called masters and are allowed to impart the traditional knowledge. We strictly follow the discipline of the sages. It is not possible for me to discuss in detail the secret teachings of Prayoga Shastra, for it is said: “Na datavyam, na datavyam, na datavyam—Don’t impart, don’t impart, don’t impart” unless someone is fully prepared and committed and has practiced self-control to a high degree. These attainments can be verified through the experiences of the sages of the past. In our path, gurudeva is not a god but a bright being who has faithfully and sincerely attained a state of enlightenment. We believe in the grace of the guru as the highest means for enlightenment, but never as the end. The purpose of the guru is to selflessly help his disciples on the way to perfection. Our tradition has the following orientation: 1. One Absolute without a second is our philosophy. 2. Serving humanity through selflessness is an expression of love, which one should follow through mind, action, and speech. 3. The yoga system of Patanjali is a preliminary step accepted by us for the higher practices in our tradition, but philosophically we follow the advaita system of one Absolute without a second. 4. Meditation is systematized by stilling the body, having serene breath, and controlling the mind. Breath awareness, control of the autonomic nervous system, and learning to discipline primitive urges are practiced. 5. We teach the middle path to students in general, and those who are prepared for higher steps of learning have the opportunity to learn the advanced practices. This helps people in general in their daily lives to live in the world and yet remain above. Our method, for the convenience of Western students, is called superconscious meditation. I am only a messenger delivering the wisdom of the Himalayan sages of this tradition, and whatever spontaneously comes from the center of intuition, that I teach. I never prepare my lectures or speeches, for I was told by my master not to do so. 6. We do not believe in conversion, changing cultural habits, or introducing any God in particular. We respect all religions equally, loving all and excluding none. Neither do we oppose any temple, mosque, or church, nor do we believe in building homes for God while ignoring human beings. Our firm belief is that every human being is a living institution or a temple. 7. Our members are all over the world, and for the sake of communication we also believe in education. Our graduate program imparts the knowledge given by the sages, thereby fulfilling the inner need of intellectuals. 8. We practice vegetarianism. We teach a nutritional diet that is healthy and good for longevity, but at the same time we are not rigid and do not force students to become vegetarians. 9. We respect the institution of the family and stress the education of children by introducing a selftraining program
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Billy Bob makes it up...again
On Dec 9, 2011, at 8:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Empty: Those stages of subtly are common stages discussed in Tantric Deity yoga and in Kashmiri Trika Shaiva teachings. Vag: They're also used in the Shankaracharya tradition, which uses the approach of tantra, leading to nondual contemplation. This is the path of SBS ME: This is not Shankara's Kevala Vedanta but the yogic advaita (post-Vidyaranya) which contradicts Shankara in many ways. A mix of Tantric and Puranic worship is standard in most Hinduism. Billy Bob, get dat toothpick outta yo' brain. Get some experience, den get back to us. Vag: The bottom line is, if the bindu is not pierced and the ajna is not bridged, the road to samadhi and full transcendence can never occur. ME: SSRS told me that transcending in meditation (TM-Sahaj) is crossing the tri-veni. That is why the Ajña is called the inner tri-veni or the confluence of the three principle nadi-s. Again, another awakened teacher contradicts your assertions. Billy Bub: Shree Ravi was just one of Mahesh's boyz. His lineage is dee M-sters: it don't exist. Pleez don't hypervent on meez. Capiche? Empty: You purposely left out the conclusions of Svami Lakshman Joo, the last Trika guru from Kashmir, a friend of MMY. He fully endorsed the transcending process of TM. In fact, MMY got some of his understanding from SKJ. Vag: He may or may not have recognized it. But I doubt he would have recognized it as any more than a preliminary. ME: This kind of dismissal of Swami Lakshman Joo clearly demonstrates your selective polemic and wonton editing without regard for his actual statements. SRSS and SLJ agree with MMY. You do not and thus you strike out. Try staying with Dzogchen. You lack the objectivity to discuss TM or MMY. Bub: the criticism against moi ist becuz I'm too objective. Where yu been?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 7, 2011, at 8:36 PM, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: Heh. MMY always portrayed himself as a reformer, so conservatives would naturally be incensed with what he said. Of course the real reason they were incensed was probably because he was destroying the purity of their tradition, while making the dubious claim to be restoring it. I've noticed that destroyers of traditions often present themselves as reformers. ANd in fact, MMY's point that I was in turn pointing out, is that one can spout rhetoric all day long, but if that rhetoric isn't based on internal states, then it is merely flowery words. Yes, I think you've touched on the essence of TM: flowery rhetoric and slick sales presentations based on relaxation states but sold as higher states of consciousness.
Re: [FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)
On Dec 8, 2011, at 3:42 AM, turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: But by far your most insightful comment, Vaj, was speculating as to whether this moodmaking technique does anything to create true spiritual balance in those practicing it. Are we likely to see them develop more compassion, or love, or a sense of equality with their fellow man as the result of staring at the LED Visible Man? Well they could say that: - staring at the LED man helps create world peace. - staring at the LED man enlivens the unified field (Mr. Wizard, John Hagelin appears from behind a curtain with a chart and a dizzying Powerpoint presentation). - and my favorite part: the scientific research on LED man (Fred Travis appear from behind a curtain, carrying a chart and yet another dizzying PPT presentation). I don't think so. I think the appeal is yet again to We Are So Special Because We Know How Everything Works elitism, and the underlying message is yet again, You don't get to feel this special unless you're on our approved list of People Who Are As Worthy As We Are and we issue you a pass to let you into the room, as soon as you've paid us for the privilege. But YMMV. I, for one, look forward to more testi- monials from the TBs about this one. That should be amusing. My tummy feels better just anticipating the laughter. :-) One could very well anticipate this heralds the end of something big - after all this is a technique totally from someone's head. T'ain't nuttin' Vedic about it, let alone spiritual. The transition from sullying these traditions and selling it to gullible westerners has now become selling something only very remotely Vedic (LED Purusha).
Re: [FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)
On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:35 AM, zarzari_786 wrote: I for example compare the TM movement to the Sri Aurobindo Ashram, where the last leader died about 40 years ago. I just met an old lady, who works there in the Ashram since 40 years, is now 75 years old, and to my opinion, has the typical TB mindset. She still experienced the master (Mira Alfassa) about 3 years, if so, from a distance (balcony darshans). And I just read a book by Peter Heehs on Sri Aurobindo, and as I thought it was actually a very positive review of his life. But it stirred up the whole Ashram, lead to a huge controversy, the book is actually forbidden in India (the lives of Sri Aurobindo), while most ashramites have read photocopies. The book is published by the cambridge universtity press, and directed to academics, not devotees. Yet it is in no way deferrential, but it happens to mention certain biographic facts, seen as a no no by the ashramites. Now the funny thing is, that the ashram leadership, might actually have inspired the book, and is not really against it. (they don't endorse it either) That in itself is the reason for controversy, as it seems there is a group of fundamentalists who want to overtake the Ashram. Right now there are efforts on the way, to deprive Heehs of his visa, he lives since decades in India, and was one of the main Ashram archivars, the book was originally approved by the ashram leadership (without reading it) before it was published. Also, the philospophy of Aurobindo is elitary, by definition, he says that nobody before embarked on this type of yoga or knowledge. So, for Ashramites, anybody practicing a more traditional form of yoga misses out on the new yoga. (The old yoga has its basis in the 'overmind', with all its gods, which is something like 'supermind' gone wrong) And the only way is to be devoted to SA and / or Mirra Alfassa. There is a similar idea like in TM, that 'we are the ones doing the transformation for the world, unprecedented, for all times to come' And it's all there in the writings of SA. You have to wonder how much of this is part of their caste mindsets, as both Mahesh and Aurobindo come from the same caste.
Re: [FairfieldLife] The LED Visible Man Technique (was Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji)
On Dec 8, 2011, at 8:53 AM, zarzari_786 wrote: Coming to think of it, given the time frame, it is likely MMY was influenced to some degree by SA. SA, when the topic came up, somebody wanted to popularize his teachings in the US, saying that he should offer some courses, something like a formula, as this was sucessfull with Vivekanada and Yogananda, simply refused. MMY was at Aurobindo Ashram, I heard trying to persuade some Ashramite to join him. So his project of transforming world consciousness may well have been informed by SA. Also, the whole story about absolute body, sounds a lot like SA's supramental body. Creating a new man was really SA's project. SA regarded himself as a tantric yogi. So MMY may have taken the 'uniqueness' and 'rediscovery of a lost knowledge' as a traditionalists version of the new yoga. It always seemed clear that Mahesh was getting material from both Aurobindo AND Yogananda - both of which are from his caste.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sattvic horror movies I'm looking forward to
Have you seen Limitless yet? Great theme, esp. for meditators hip to the idea of developing the unlimited potential of consciousness and the brain. In Limitless the star gets dumped by his girlfriend. He's a writer with a contract, but also with a bad case of writer's block. He run's into his ex-wife's brother and he claims he has a new pill, a still unreleased nootropic drug that has the ability for humans to access 100% of the brain's power, as opposed to the normal max of 20%. So he decides to try it. Well the drug immediately begins giving abilities like infinite correlation between everything he's ever experienced and present experience. Perfect recall, perfect concentration, perfect photographic memory. For example, he sees the corner of a book's spine and is able to recollect a person he knew, with the same book, and that she was a law student and the full title, and thus is able to infer that she's a law student. One listen to a foreign language CD and he is fluent in that language, and on and on. I suspect they'll be a sequel to this one. On Dec 8, 2011, at 11:54 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Not due out until 2012, The Cabin In The Woods kinda tops my list. The IMDB describes its plot as Five friends go to a remote cabin in the woods. Bad things happen. The tagline for the film is If you hear a strange sound outside... have sex. Written and produced by Joss Whedon. Instant classic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXfc12BqFkc Then there is Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. The title says it all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4U3kbV4dCU The Raven, with Edgar Allen Poe trying to solve crimes based on his stories. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIeLylWccNo A Francis Ford Coppola movie that I'll probably see even though it's got Val Kilmer in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP7cQnOcU7I
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sattvic horror movies I'm looking forward to
On Dec 8, 2011, at 12:46 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: Have you seen Limitless yet? I saw it and was blown away by the implications. And with the rapid acceleration of smart drug use on campuses it was well within the believable. The question will be whether or not overclocking our CPU is inherently dangerous or not. So far there seems to be a bar tab for everything they have come up with. But that limit may not last. I'll bet just getting closer with fewer side affect will work just fine for most of us. Actual yogis who develop these abilities often seem to develop a spontaneous knowledge of workable holistic forms of medicine along with their omniscience. That's what happened to my grandmaster, he was just a peasant kid with little education, yet the kings of the Himalaya sought him out for treatment. As westerners, we tend to boo hoo these things, because no one in the west was really experiencing these states - until an American Dzogchenpa actually attained the Body of Light several years ago. When the Catholic church realized humans were experiencing it, they were forced to investigate as well - after all it appeared their founder had as well. I suspect we'll eventually find out some heretofore unknown properties of human DNA. It's really just a matter of time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sattvic horror movies I'm looking forward to
On Dec 8, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Bhairitu wrote: That's because there are mantras that can control many of the facets of body functioning. You can influence your autonomic nervous system with them. Once you have a quiet mind you can clearly note the effects of any mantra and make recommendations. You will also be able to clearly note the influences of foods, herbals substances as well as other elements the environment. Someone looking at how TM is taught might wonder if MMY got it from ayurvedic concepts though I would say the concepts go throughout all of yoga and Indian philosophy. He had cognized mantras, but also various herbal formulas and a system of acupuncture.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Ravi
On Dec 7, 2011, at 11:53 AM, maskedzebra wrote: A certain intelligence and intention took over my life, and for ten years, I was obedient (without any choice in the matter) to that intelligence. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/297707
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Ravi How the FUCK are ya?
On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:22 PM, Duveyoung wrote: What was I thinking? I mean, right there in the first lecture, the guy giving it was obviously not a golden child striding the world and solving problems everywhere. He was a wimp, reading out of the Science of Being and the Art of Living, and an obvious lover of cucumber sandwiches. Yeah, whoa, what a glorious spiritual leader this guy was. Gunna take me to the promise land. I bought it. Edg I thought of you when I watched David Wants to Fly for the first time and they showed the kids at the Marshy School of the Age of Enlightenment singing some sing-song SCI lullaby. I had to wonder your reaction when you saw it - or was that something (this brainwashing of the innocents) that you were already well aware of?
Re: [FairfieldLife] MSAE, was Hey Rav...
Oops, Second one: http://tmfree.blogspot.com/2007/02/program-pedophilia.html On Dec 7, 2011, at 3:29 PM, Vaj wrote: What really happened: http://tmfree.blogspot.com/2010/06/getting-out-of-mindset.html http://tmfree.blogspot.com/2010/06/getting-out-of-mindset.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dome meeting with Maharaja-ji
On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:21 PM, Susan wrote: Well, $85 is rather inexpensive. Good for the TMO not to overcharge!!! Hope it really works for people. I always liked the parallels between the cosmic and the individual physiology. And in response to Barry, yes, sometimes placebos do work - at least for a while and more often with certain types of problems (pain). There is an interesting article in this week's New Yorker about placebos and the research being done at Harvard on the whole area. Well, if I were out there, I would spring for this course. Sounds at the least sweet, and perhaps really powerful. And since I love all the astronomy and universe/multiverse/black holes info and photos and concepts then this will at least feed into that fascination. Did MMY himself develop this with Rajaram? Or is this really Rajaram's invention? That's his whole trip for years now. It's what his overpriced and overhyped book is about. But the question I'd want to know is how does this enhance my spiritual practice? I'm afraid the answer is: not at all, it's just knowledge, special knowledge. It's just groups of correspondences. What's the big deal if it doesn't awaken me more, integrate me further or expand my capacity for love? Once people understand the correspondences they're hoping it will create a bridge to other services they can sell and people will fall for. But it's all Mahesh's yathā pinde tathā brahmānde theme applied to marketing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:04 PM, sparaig wrote: Not every buddhist would agree that it is a scam, of course... You can fool some of the people, some of the time has been the sales strategy of the TMO for decades.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:44 PM, sparaig wrote: Isn't Mahesh supposed to be MMY's given first name? It's certainly strange for a scholar posing as a neutral party to refer to a person whom he has never met, but whom he has written formal words about, by his first name. If he's a decent scholar he knows that for the alias Maharishi Mahesh Yogi: Maharishi is a grandiose, self-proclaimed title. So then you end up with Mahesh Yogi. But we now know that he never had any training or ordination as a yogi! So that leaves Mahesh. It's also what SBS called him...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:46 PM, sparaig wrote: That might be, but of course, this doesn't say anything about the kids and prison inmates who learn TM en mass through the David Lynch FOundation. Well you'd have to do another study. But I doubt at this late date anyone independent would be interested, let alone be given access to datum.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 6, 2011, at 1:09 AM, sparaig wrote: Because his comments are very much in line with a lot of TM teachers I have run into over the years. He regurgitates the Knowledge, but doesn't appear to get it. THe whole thing in the interview about how since a given guru was from the advaita traditionkthey should be welcomed at MUM, misses the whole point of TM. He's commenting from the broader base that the tradition TM comes from rather than merely relying on TM-speak or the blinders on view of a TB or a TM-TB. And trust me, that always scares TB's, they go into a frenzy. In this case it's clear that DS is very qualified to comment on the larger view of the tradition, esp. given his inside experience of TM instruction and practice. He's also one of the leading experts on the dandi sannyasis.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Ravi
On Dec 6, 2011, at 3:44 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Could be, though that again raises the point -- Are we reacting to Ravi's behavior, regardless, or trying to set this up as a teachable moment in which we align Ravi's behavior with an assumption about his consciousness, or his mental health? In my case, the latter. I’m interested in the correlation between various stages of awakening and behavior, and also in the common tendency for people to assume they are more (or less) enlightened than they actually are. To Tibetan Buddhists and Tantrics, what's often mistaken for a higher state of consciousness is what is often considered an invasion of a foreign entity. Is that the same as a personality disorder? No one really knows. But in this case it shares many of the features of gyalpo possession which may or may not be the same as delusions of grandeur - but the gyalpo class think they are kings (rajas) and tend to act like spoiled little brats who think the world is theirs. They don't care what anyone else thinks. But there's no excuse for trying to defame Tom and Alex (which if they are close, I wish them the best). It's just downright hurtful to these two gentleman to spread lies about them if it's not - all the while accusing others of lies!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Christmas With Cockburn - Joy Will Find A Way
On Dec 6, 2011, at 4:15 PM, turquoiseb wrote: Following up on Vaj's wry quip about Canadian Christians Worth Listening To, here's a musical rarity that may be of interest only to existing Bruce Cockburn or folkie fans. Audio only, this is Bruce, Patty Larkin, Jonatha Brooke, and Peter Stuart (Dog's Eye View frontman and Counting Crows and Tori Amos sideman), performing Bruce's fifth Christmas show for the 1995 Columbia Records Radio Hour. Tremendous performances -- and tremendous joy -- from all involved. For Bruce freaks, his acoustic guitar solo on the opening Joy Will Find A Way is worth the price of admission, as is his backup to Peter's Small Wonder. O Come O Come Emmanuel as you've never heard it before...scary lovely duet. War has never been performed more poignantly, and is going out especially to Edg. Set list: My favorite BC Christmas song is I Saw Three Ships which is done in a beautiful opening F tuning on a 12 string. I liked the song so much that I hunted down the tuning, and we've played it during the holiday seasons for friends. They love it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC8AhRZ7rPk Here's the tuning and shapes for guitar lovers - you can really groove out on this tuning: I Saw Three Ships more or less as performed by Bruce Cockburn tabbed by Robert Pontisso Tuning: FACGCF Chord forms: 1(F): 03020x 2(?): 0x2000 3(?): 032300 Picking patterns: Chord 1|Chord 2|Chord 3a|Chord 3b ---|0--|0---|| 0--|---0-0-|---0-0--|0---| ---2-2-|--0---0|--3---3-|---3-3--| --0---0|2--|2---|--2---2-| 3--|---||3---| -0-|-0-|-0--|-0--| The trick is to play the arpeggios so that the high notes in each chord form really chime out. Long intro: Alternate Chords 1 and 2 ..12 I saw three ships come sailing in on 13a3b..3a..3b Christmas Day on Christmas Day ..12 I saw three ships come sailing in on 13a. Christmas Day in the Morning 1..2..1..2 etc. I saw three ships come sailing in On Christmas day, on Christmas day I saw three ships come sailing in On Christmas day in the morning And who do you think was in them then? On Christmas day, on Christmas day And who do you think was in them then But Joseph and his lady He did whistle and she did sing On Christmas day, on Christmas day He did whistle and she did sing On Christmas day in the morning And all the bells on earth did ring On Christmas day, on Christmas day And all the bells on earth did ring On Christmas day in the morning And all the angels in heaven did sing On Christmas day, on Christmas day And all the angels in heaven did sing On Christmas day in the morning I saw three ships come sailing in On Christmas day, on Christmas day I saw three ships come sailing in On Christmas day in the morning
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hey Ravi
Unfortunately for you: your hype might have been part of the hype he was talking about - but I'm pretty sure he meant to say tripe. ;-) On Dec 6, 2011, at 6:02 PM, whynotnow7 wrote: Once about every six months you say something I can agree with, and you said it here: A lot of the enlightened just don't measure up to the hype about enlightenment IMO. Just sayin'. Yes. EXACTLY - There Is SO MUCH HYPE About It, that it makes a normal conversation about it almost impossible. Talk about preconceptions. Probably only second to everyone's assumptions about death. Enlightenment grows from within. When it is apparent, its f*ckin' obvious, and if it isn't that is obvious too. But it doesn't do anything, anymore than we do anything when we wake up in the morning. It just happens as the result of an intent desire. People who are awake inside, having taken root in silence, for the first time in their endless progression of life, like to make it known at first. Released from prison! Oh my god! Everything falls away, unravels. Sometimes the unraveling takes place awkwardly, but if the person is true to their silence within, the awkward stage doesn't last very long, and then on to the next adventure; deeper silence. Enlightenment blossoms as an internal process though. Aside from some sadhana, there really isn't much monkey see, monkey do in all of it. Not much value in aping someone else's behavior, or attempting to judge it any further than is it likable or not. Everyone's gotta live their life still. No one gets out of here alive and all that. We somehow end up with this highly distorted story of what Enlightenment is, and how the Enlightened are supposed to act, speak and think. Let's do ourselves a favor and just drop it - basically a road to nowhere.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 4, 2011, at 9:49 PM, seventhray1 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: I think it's important to distinguish between meditation forms that help samskaras be dissolved and those that plant sattvic seeds in the mind to overwhelm the rajasic and tamasic weeds. One method is like planting many flowers in a garden so that they overwhelm the weeds to the point they're barely noticeable, the other is like dissolving the weeds at the roots so the garden's already present state can emerge. So which is which? Are you saying TM is more like one of these than the other. Both methods sound positive. From my experience, I would say TM was more like #2. But that was also coupled with a lot of introspection and work on my part to root out tendencies that were causing me problems. For me TM was more like a break in the action and a balm for mind and body. Sorry Ray, the correct answer was door number one.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 5, 2011, at 8:04 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Oh, good. I'll just have to revise my experience so it conforms with your analysis. Actually we've all already been pre-programmed to believe in the stress release, unstressing, model is factually correct. Each time we transcend we're chipping away at those stresses in our nervous system. So I believe most of us who were indoctrinated into TM would chose as you did. Thanks for examples of tecniques that utilize #1. But just to be clear, since you reverse the order in the first and second parts of your paragraph, I found TM to aid in a dissolving of the samskaras. I'm not getting the planting of sattwic seeds as it pertains to the practice of TM. Care to be more specific about that? The basic idea is that the mind is naturally unruly at the start, particularly because of the dominance of rajasic and tamsic thought patterns. If you take something sattvic, like a goddesses mantra and repeat it enough times this embrues the mindstream with sattvic qualities, making it easier for the mind to settle down.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Guess Bruce Cockburn's latest wasn't inaccessible, after all...
Finally...a Canadian Christian worth listening to. ;-) On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:54 AM, turquoiseb wrote: ...at least not in Canada. Although some critics called it inaccessible and a flop, at the recent 2011 Canadian Folk Music Awards, Bruce just won Solo Artist of the Year and Contemporary Album of the Year for his album Small Source of Comfort. Good on him. Dude is a few months older than I am, and just keeps getting better. A veritable source of inspiration. Here are a few cuts from the album, for those few :-) who I wasn't able to entice to give it listen earlier, when it first came out. The Iris of the World (first single and music video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGn67XdaxgA Call Me Rose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYK3hfIWJEA Radiance (excerpt): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtSYUR8kvkk Five Fifty-One (live with Jenny Scheinman): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iIcdmrK9Kw Driving Away (with Annabelle Chvostek): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCVQTO4KhnQ Boundless (with Annabelle Chvostek): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYehxfm2h0Y Gifts (written 1968, only recorded on this album): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fALLVAMBKlQ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'President Newt?'
On Dec 5, 2011, at 12:05 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Those who get their information from FOX News to maintain their confusion, deserve neither liberty nor safety. As you probably already now a third scientific study has been published on FOX news which shows that someone who watches FOX news knows less than someone who watches no news at all. Now that's either a really bad news outlet or a really good disinformation campaign! One things for sure, you can tell someone who watches FOX the minute they open their mouths. And boy do they hate to be told they're mistaken. Maybe I should check if there's FOX news watch website...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guess Bruce Cockburn's latest wasn't inaccessible, after all...
On Dec 5, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Bhairitu wrote: On 12/05/2011 09:11 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vajvajradhatu@... wrote: Finally...a Canadian Christian worth listening to. ;-) Vaj, you made me spit my juice out with that one!!! Good luck dealing with the obsessives, BTW. I'm outa here when it comes to them, and it seems that Curtis is, too, so I'm gettin' the feeling that you and Sal will be the only ones left when they look around for potential victims. FFL is like a cage full of canaries in a mine. When tensions rise in the US there is more Maharishi talk. It's like they retreat into remembering their better days of the 1970s and their good times with TM. What will happen if YahooGroups goes away? Actually, the recurrent pattern is with each new revelation of the sex life, destroyed lives or lack of lineage of HH Mahesh, they flip out on the victim(s) of their choice. The latest blow was the release of David Wants to Fly into the collective consciousness of America. The CIA really should have had some jet helicopters with trained psychotherapists and psychiatrists on standby, just in case. Thankfully FFL and folks like us were on the ready to combat the demon of their collective shadow and defuse the bomb of explosive unstressing. But RWC turned out to be a real disappointment as a demon-hunter. I expected at least a cardboard insert and some holy water or maybe a pointed finger with some sssh. Notta thing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha and Meditation
LOL. This is an old TM scam, nothing new here, keep moving. Sent from my iPad On Dec 5, 2011, at 9:10 PM, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@... wrote: http://oaks.nvg.org/tm-buddhism.html Vaj meltdown in 3... 2... 1
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
No Feste, that was not the point of what I was saying. But thanks for asking. :-) On Dec 3, 2011, at 10:52 PM, feste37 fest...@yahoo.com wrote: So you're saying that TM causes people to be afraid to go outside or to be in public? Gosh, I never knew that, and I was in the movement for decades! Thanks, Vaj! Useful information to have.
[FairfieldLife] Rare video of Robin and Ravi on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV1ccge6Jcs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 4, 2011, at 9:33 AM, richardatrwilliamsdotus wrote: So, you need Dana Sawyer, who never even tried TM, to explain to you TM? You're supposed to be the spiritual teacher! You're thinking Dana Sawyer knows anything about the TM or the TMO? Go figure. Prof. Sawyer was expelled from the TMO for daring to explore other meditation methods.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:30 AM, feste37 wrote: But it was part of what you said. (See below. I've restored your words that you deleted.) Here's what I said: I regularly talk to people who will mention problems as simple as having to alter their life because they're afraid to go outside or in public. Do you really mean that TM causes people to be afraid to go outside? Let me clarify what I said, since you're not getting it. I regularly talk to people On a consistent basis I'm talking to persons who have problems (plural)... as simple as having to alter their life because they're afraid to go outside or in public. ...to give a singular example, some might develop agoraphobic-type issues. To give further examples, some might develop hypersensitivties about being around other people. There are a large number of variations like this, it's not just limited to being in public. Because that's what you said. If indeed there are any examples I suspect your reasoning goes like this: person has psychological problems; person also does TM, therefore the problems are caused by TM. But I doubt whether that is valid. I'm relying on their perceptions and the conclusions they're drawing, not my own. They often associate these issues with extensive rounding, or (more rarely) the TMSP. Just as an aside, I loved rounding, it was one of my favorite TM activities. I'm not sure if I had any negative side effects, it seemed to have a relatively positive effect for may (often sensations of mental bliss). I think it would be more accurate to say that in such instances, TM proved to be no help in addressing the problem. These all occurred after long rounding, etc., so that is what they're associating it with. I can accept that, because TM is not a cure-all, but I don't think it makes people (to use your example) afraid to go outside. Such allegations, it seems to me, are just part of your long vendetta against TM and the TM movement, in which anything will do, whether accurate or not. When you talk to people who've helped in the recovery of such persons, they can site hundreds, even thousands of such instances. I should also point out a similar trend I've seen in the last ten years is also among people coming from the many Hindu kundalini paths that have sprung up. they're having similar problems or even more severe problems. Suffice to say, many of these types of disorders are well known in Ayurvedic and Tibetan medical literature.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shring? Buddhist and Hindu mantras.
On Dec 4, 2011, at 11:27 AM, richardatrwilliamsdotus wrote: emptybill: I already addressed this in a post about the primal bijas of Rig-Veda, all pointed out by Brahmarshi Daivarata. You keep avoiding the question: Where do the TM bija mantras come from? He does not know. TM initiators nor TM deep insiders have revealed any authentic textual or lineal source for the TM mantras. In fact we now know that Maheshiji held no lineage at all. Although one possibility is they could be from meditative experiences he had while in the presence of SBS. That would account for both their lack of textual basis and the fact that Mahesh, after a certain point began to refer to himself as a Maharishi (a very exalted claim). But I think that would be grasping at straws, and I do not recall ever hearing such a claim. One initiator here made the very reasonable claim that he simply applied different shaktis to different, traditional (tantric) stages of human development. So, for example, you'd give saraswati mantras during the learning phase of ones life, different ones later.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 4, 2011, at 1:42 PM, feste37 wrote: Well, that's interesting. I never liked rounding so did as little of it as possible. I can imagine that if people are cooped up all day doing that then they might get a bit reclusive for a while and find it difficult to get back into a more integrated lifestyle, but I would have thought such feelings would be very short-term. Anything more serious, I would doubt were caused by long rounding, although the people may well be sincere in thinking that. I suspect there must be some other underlying issues in such cases that have nothing to do with TM. I believe there is a cause effect relationship in this case, just having observed the weird hypersensitivities in various rounders or hardcore sidhas. I think it's important to distinguish between meditation forms that help samskaras be dissolved and those that plant sattvic seeds in the mind to overwhelm the rajasic and tamasic weeds. One method is like planting many flowers in a garden so that they overwhelm the weeds to the point they're barely noticeable, the other is like dissolving the weeds at the roots so the garden's already present state can emerge.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Dana Sawyer needs photos
Perhaps it's this book? : Cosmic Capitalism, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Selling of Romanticism. (Albany: State University of New York Press, Forthcoming, Fall 2009). Co-written with Cynthia Humes. On Dec 3, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Dana Sawyer has written a book on the TM Movement, and needs some photos. Please see below and let me know if you can help: I'd love to have photos of any and all important events and personalities, and you know those as well as I do. For instance: Swami Brahmananda MMY with Guru Dev MMY with Charlie Lutes (or Lutes separate) MMY with the Beatles MMY with Jerry Jarvis (or Jerry separate) Big European TTCs, like La Antilla and Majorca MMY on Merv Keith Wallace, first prez of MIU Headquarters in Switzerland National headquarters in LA photos of regional coordinators Domes at MIU Lillian Rosen? Bullah Smith? People practicing the flying sutra These are some ideas that come readily to mind. Let me know what you can get, Dana
Re: [FairfieldLife] Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:14 PM, feste37 wrote: I am aware that more than a few TM meditators have hypersensitivities, but I'm not sure that is always a bad thing: they have their antennae up to detect anything that might be harmful and coming their way, so as best to avoid it (food sensitivities, for example). I have hypersensitivities of my own, but I don't think TM or the TMSP had any effect on them, one way or another. It's just part of the makeup of the personality. But that's just my experience. It's a psychological fact (from independent studies on TM) that a certain type of person self selects and decides to pay and undergo TM initiation - and that self selection all occurs from how that particular segment reacts to the intro lecture content. I guess the question then becomes what unique vulnerabilities does this group of humans have?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
On Dec 4, 2011, at 5:50 PM, feste37 wrote: I find this interesting but am not convinced by the idea (hardly a psychological fact) that those who start TM constitute a certain type of person, since such a huge variety of people have learned TM over the years. That's true. You could easily argue, it's just a sample from one stretch a time. The broader number of samples, the better. It would be interesting to see how well it would replicated, for example, if there was a sudden Oprah wave that would be a perfect oppurtunity. I think the self-selection idea could be better applied to the TM campus community here in Fairfield, since that is certainly a self-selected group from among the many thousands of people who have learned TM, and they may well have some traits in common that would make your question, What unique vulnerabilities does this group of humans have? a valid and an interesting one. But I think it would have to be balanced by a more positive question: What unique strengths, including gifts, talents, and spiritual vision does this group of humans have? Then we might be able to reach a more fair-minded conclusion. One of the problems with sampling TMers in questionaire formats of any kind is how much have they been already biased by research they've been shown or indoctrinated in? And unfortunately the answer with someone who is so deep into the TM worldview as to be enrolled in a TM university culture is hugely biased. In fact a lot of those people may have become involved because of research they were shown. Because of this fact, I'm afraid most if not all subjects would not be neutral or naive to the questions. Of course the opposite side of the coin is that disreputable researchers, understanding the lack of naiveté and because of the their ability to cherry-pick certain true believers, they can skew almost any research in their favor. Plus if you have a group like 1000-headed Purusha or MD as a PR mechanism, you can flood the web nowadays with so much counter-information and disinformation that modern consumers gobble it right up.
Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] New Robin Carlsen file uploaded to FairfieldLife
On Dec 2, 2011, at 4:48 PM, maskedzebra wrote: He denied he was on the mountain with me at Arosa, Switzerland in 1976 when I saw God. I forgot to tell you. Thomas told me he was certain he saw wisps of smoke emerging from your left ear...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Dana Sawyer needs photos
Rick, do you know if he's seen David Wants to Fly or read Kundalini Vidya (deals with the style of psychic damage often seen in sidhas and the methodology of dark gurus)? On Dec 3, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Dana Sawyer has written a book on the TM Movement, and needs some photos. Please see below and let me know if you can help: I'd love to have photos of any and all important events and personalities, and you know those as well as I do. For instance: Swami Brahmananda MMY with Guru Dev MMY with Charlie Lutes (or Lutes separate) MMY with the Beatles MMY with Jerry Jarvis (or Jerry separate) Big European TTCs, like La Antilla and Majorca MMY on Merv Keith Wallace, first prez of MIU Headquarters in Switzerland National headquarters in LA photos of regional coordinators Domes at MIU Lillian Rosen? Bullah Smith? People practicing the flying sutra These are some ideas that come readily to mind. Let me know what you can get, Dana
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dana Sawyer needs photos
I feel that all recent information relating to the TMO's dark side would be relevant, esp. material that relates to the traditional problems meditation can cause - and the hope for relief for people suffering. You might see the still on-going PR of the TMO as more evidence of the success of the org. But I cannot ignore that this same org has more psychosis, suicide and meditational disorders than any meditation org I'm aware of. I regularly talk to people who will mention problems as simple as having to alter their life because they're afraid to go outside or in public. My heart goes out to these folks. So if a book is coming out on the TMO, I would hope there'd be some room for outreach. On Dec 3, 2011, at 9:11 PM, shukra69 shukr...@yahoo.ca wrote: this is a desperate crazy person kind of drive-by slander on your part isn't it Vag?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shring? Buddhist and Hindu mantras.
Hi William: On Dec 1, 2011, at 7:28 PM, emptybill wrote: My reply: Apparently you only gave a cursory look at Sanderson's Webpage. He has plenty of material demonstrating Buddhist textual borrowing from Shaiva tantric texts. About 5 years ago or so, before Sanderson's page came up, a group of ngakpas with authorizations in the tantras and mahasandi, one of who works for a major library, acquired and had about a half dozen of Sanderson's papers digitized. We spent a couple of months going over them and periodically reviewed new ones we hadn't seen. We also reviewed papers which countered Sandersons theories. It's probably been a year or so since I've looked at the web site, but yes I am familiar with Sanderson's papers and found them very interesting. What you may not be aware of is the opposite theory of transmission already existed prior to Sanderson's theories - that transmission of certain tantric materials, sadhanas, etc. had come from buddhism and bon into Hinduism. In fact certain specific togal practices can be found in later shaivite texts, after their bonpo originals. Current lineholders are familiar with the historical trend. You can also see the same trend in Kashmir. It's helpful to keep in mind that the traditional abode of shiva and parvati, Mount Kailash, is a within the ancient kingdom of Zhang Zhung. This ancient kingdom had lines of pre-buddhist (pre-shakyamuni) buddhas, which one of these may represent the historical figure known today as the god shiva. Since these lines still exist, you can find lamas who will discuss the transmission of bonpo tantric and bonpo dzogchen into other vehicles. Various practices in these systems also contain practices relating to rishis, some of which were Vedic rishis. This is interesting because very little of the Vedic religion has survived. But practices of the rishis are found in other systems and a number of Vedic rishis may represent prior (pre-shakyamuni) buddhas. Thus, to this day, you can visit temples in Tibet which show the vedic rishis, side by side with later buddhas. Probably the most obvious example of sharing of these ideas is the kalachakra-tantra itself, which actually contains within it the Hindu kalachakra, the shiva-swarodaya. But it would be a hard argument that the arising of letters in one is really that different than the arising of letters in the other. It's really the View that varies. Your explanation is almost a New Age syncretism. Oh so sorry but … No, It's always important to point out (IMO) that while sadhanas and bases like chakra systems may be the same or similar, since the View varies the way they are seen may differ dramatically. Since View determines Fruition, differences in View may translate into different forms or styles of awakening. Pss - it's not really all one. That's right. That why I consider perennialism a false view of reality.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shring? Buddhist and Hindu mantras.
On Dec 2, 2011, at 11:33 AM, richardatrwilliamsdotus wrote: Apparently you only gave a cursory look at Sanderson's Webpage. He has plenty of material demonstrating Buddhist textual borrowing from Shaiva tantric texts... Vaj: In fact certain specific togal practices can be found in later shaivite texts, after their bonpo originals... What 'originals' would these be, since 'Bon' had no written language until the invention of Tibetan in the mid-7th century AD. It was only relatively recently that things were written down. It was an oral tradition until relatively recently. There exist today numerous texts whose existence is only due to the fact that someone completely memorized the entire thing. Then when they get expelled from their country and undergo genocide, their traditions can survive. It's not unusual for some lamas to memorize many texts. My Patanjali guru would memorize texts by going over them while he was asleep. Since dreamtime is much more compressed in time relative to the waking state is actually a nice side effect of truly expanded consciousness. I know several yogis who use dream yoga as way to work on projects, often textual, while they are sleeping.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Shring? Buddhist and Hindu mantras.
Hi William: On Dec 2, 2011, at 12:31 PM, emptybill wrote: Buddhist literary borrowings from shaiva texts are quite clear. However that does not invalidate the idea of a common yogic cultural sphere which went both ways. Yogins often do not mind mixing dharmas since they are concerned primarily with what works. That is a good point. It's also important to get that the idea of strict, compartmentalized paths is actually relatively new, within the last millennium or so. I also think you should read Sanderson's detractors responses to appreciate his errors. The Bon dharma appears to synthesize the pre-tantric Buddhism of Zhang Zhung with Trans-Himalayan, native shamanism. So what? That is no reason to indulge in doctrinaire attributions. Tibetans like to do that … why ape them? The primary problem is people's outside of Tibet tended to collectively downgrade their opinions of not only Tibetans as a people, but Tibetans as a civilization. Consequently historical opinions as to cultural diffusion were skewed against the Tibetans. Nothing could ever have originated from these barbarians (never mind that's where many rishis came from). The Chinese effectively branded them as barbarians, and other surrounding countries performed similar disinformation campaigns. To place it in the context of the USA, it would be like Mestizo descendants of Don Juan Matus suddenly begin dissolving into rainbow light over the Southwest, multiplying and their leader crosses the border into Rick Perry's Texas. Khachab Rinpoche took Bon Dzogchen teachings from Lopon Tenzin Namdak and personally verified their authentic nature along with their correspondences to Nyingma Dzochen. His sister was a Bonpo practitioner married to a Mongolian Lama. He has real knowledge about their teachings and practice. I also have teaching from the Lopon, and close, regular advice from his heart-students. It's very clear the diffusion went Zhang Zhung - India and to China as well (remember Taoism?). What amazed me was how much the Bonpos understood about Shaivite pre-history. Considering your many Shaiva contentions here on FFL, I would expect you to agree that Shaiva MahaBhairava traditions influenced Buddhist Tantric practices rather than try to mystify it all into Tögal bindus. Well no, I assume there was some hybridization. However, at the level of experience, beyond time or place, you see and appreciate a universal level. The only lineal markings are our own projections. Same for Tertons. They don't need to be puffed up into Vedic rishis since they already possess a profound set of teachings transmitted directly by rigpa yeshe. Yes, of course. But then there are official lineages and there are natural lineages too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Robin Carlsen file uploaded to FairfieldLife
On Dec 2, 2011, at 4:06 PM, maskedzebra wrote: Intuition of a snail: this is interesting, because this I consider the most developed part of me—and I have felt this to be the case since I was even a baby, when I started having my own thoughts. Again, I would like you to present—just for *my sake*—examples of my failure of intuition. (Assuming that you are not some biologist who has studied the intelligence of snails—and you mean this as a compliment—in that case it would another instance of having misinterpreted you.) Something worth considering: if you're able to discern, or feedback from others has lead you to believe that you may have or hold some narcissistic tendencies, could it be you are overestimating your own intuitive powers? Is that at least a possibility? For example, I always thought your sussing of Doug K. as an old sage (or was it ancient?) was at least apropos contextually. But it could have been a mis-extrapolation of the fact that D. left numerous natural pregnant pauses in his speech - a natural part of who he was, the natural silence I felt he had, in his mindstream. As the Rig Veda says, some friends are like mud puddles - others are like deep lakes you can vanish into (gross, rough paraphrase). D. was the latter in my opinion. It was actually those deep silences that made him so pleasurable to be around. I remember asking him, after the fact, if he knew who the sage was you had suggested. My memory's vague at this point - but I thought he said he had asked you, and you either did not know or gave a vague answer. Surely you remember this?
Re: [FairfieldLife] New Robin Carlsen file uploaded to FairfieldLife
On Nov 30, 2011, at 8:13 PM, FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FairfieldLife group. File: /Paths, Teachers and Cults/HHRWCFFia.jpg Uploaded by : vajradhatu108 vajradh...@earthlink.net Description : HH RWC with entourage and Guru Dev wannabe umbrella, Fairfield, IA. � Vajranatha 1983 Here's a picture I took outside of a church in FF with my old SX-70 Polaroid, 1st gen. I forget what it was but I believe it is some sort of pronouncement that HH Robin Carlsen is holding in the picture, while Saint Gemma II looks on concerned about the actions we're about to undertake, probably marching onto the MIU campus or some such activity. Since his psychotic break kundalini psychosis episode TM- style enlightenment in Switzerland his sattvic countenance was often protected from the rajasic rays of the sun by a sacred umbrella. Notice the nervous and tense vibe in the seminar students. This was a common vibe in the World Teacher Seminar because if you weren't about to do something quasi-illegal - marching onto private campuses, disrupting public lectures, etc. there was always the chance that you could be declared demonic if Robin and the seminar couldn't groove to your darshan (while standing in front of an audience, being drilled at a microphone, in a basement somewhere).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Robin Carlsen file uploaded to FairfieldLife
On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:54 AM, turquoiseb wrote: That certainly looks like Gemma. She was on my TTC, where many considered *her* crazy as a loon because she kept going on about being enlightened. We were warned by the person in charge of our small Canadian group (I lived in Toronto at the time) to distance ourselves from her because she was in danger of being sent home, and we might be perceived as being like her. I didn't know her well enough to pay any attention to the advice, one way or another. Looks as if she found the perfect hubbie. Two drama queens united in loving bliss. :-) Isn't it fascinating that Mr. I Can Talk About Myself For Hours, No Matter How Boring Others May Find It has never felt the need to explain his supposed ability to see demons in others and/or expel them? One is tempted to think that not only is he trying to hide that aspect of his life, he's trying to pretend Vaj never met him to keep the subject from coming up, and thus having to explain it. Well, I try to be sensitive to the fact that this whole thing has to have been very traumatic for R. It's amazing that none of the video has been leaked yet, but that's really just a matter of converting the old analog video to digital and we could have them up on YouTube quickly thereafter. The pathology of supposed higher states of consciousness - meditative disease - is a new field really, and I think video documentation could go a long way to helping jumpstart that field, potentially preventing suffering from faux meditative lineages like Mahesh Co. But maybe he's explained and I missed it. That's quite possible because as I've said often, I don't find the guy interesting enough to read what he writes, much less interact with him. The only thing that fascinates me about him is how many suckers flocked around him back in the day, and how many still do. As I've suggested before, there is just no accounting for bad taste and low standards. :-) Well, it's the principle of charm applied to sociology: RWC was and still is in many ways, a very charming man. However I think this is a common mode of functioning in certain Axis II disorders and oddly a perfect match for some Me Decade types, who tended to already have similar traits, and thus self-select for such courses. I remember specifically the moment I knew his World Teacher Seminar was harming others. It was one of those late night chats with other CP's and one of the course participants revealed that he was gay. He wasn't just gay, he was addicted to cock. Any size, shape or form he could get his mouth on. Since RWC's opinion on homosexuality was unknown, he was greatly concerned that if this was known, he would be grilled on the stage, at the microphone and be declared demonic, thus forced to endure humiliation and persecution. The utter terror he felt was palpable and you could have heard a pin drop as he told his story. And similar to the Gemma story, others on these course were often worried about associating with potentially demonic people, either in a guilt by association/birds of a feather flock together kind of way, or as a form of psychic contagion.
