Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy

[geezerfreak]

There's a reason why my favorite quote of Richards is: "I've probably posted 
10,000 messages here without a response."
 He spouts endless repetitive nonsense and actually wonders why no one bothers 
to respond? Go figure.
 

 Feel free to indulge your fantasies but I'd rather not dwell on it at all if 
you don't mind...
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 4/6/2014 10:17 AM, salyavin808 wrote:

 Hide message history
 How weird that some people think there is only one sexual position.>
It's all a matter of placement and positioning. But, it is kind of strange to 
think of MMY screwing Judith on a antelope skin in front of a paining of SBS, 
with a skin-boy in the next room and Ms Pittman guarding the front door. Go 
figure.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

[geezerfreak]

This statement made my informants in Texas laugh heartily:
 

 I've probably posted 10,000 messages here without a response.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

[geezerfreak]

 My informants report that it's a desperate attempt by Wilytex to make it all 
about Wilytex. They say he's been stuck on repeat down on the cemetery where he 
lives in Texas for many moons now and doesn't even make much sense anymore. Go 
figure.
 

 Why has Willytex got more than one account? Isn't it bad enough we got 200 
posts a week from him anyway?

Time for some moderation.

I agree, especially since he says the same three things over and over.

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ejecting Quiet time meditation from our public schools

[geezerfreak]

Yep, it makes total sense that the actual meaning of the mantra is: 

 “Oh most glorious meaningless sound, I bow down to you again and again.”
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: No Mantra will cure willfully arrogant stupidity

[geezerfreak]

Checked in to see what was going on at FFL today and low and behold, it's the 
mantra meaning debate! 

 I've posted this before some years back but for me it was settled once and for 
all back in 1976 when I received my 4th "advanced technique". I was waiting in 
line to see MMY when the guy in front of me, a friend of mine, said "ask him 
the meaning, he'll tell you."
 

 MMY gave me the new variation of my mantra (it was now Sri Aing Namah Namah) 
and I quietly said "what is the meaning?" MMY said "Glorious Saraswati I bow 
down to you again and again. {pause} Do not dwell."
 

 At the time I was totally thrilled since I LOVED the idea of worshipping the 
goddess Saraswati. It was only much later that I began to think about the fact 
that I had been telling all of my students that they were meaningless sounds.
 Many years later, when the mantra tables were revealed, it was easy to 
decipher the meaning of all of them.
 

RE: [FairfieldLife] Post Count Fri 21-Mar-14 00:15:03 UTC

[geezerfreak]

My informants say that Richard has nothing to do on the cemetery where he lives 
in Texas but post incessantly to a tiny chat group called FFL. Go figure.

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits

[geezerfreak]

Bingo! And there's your answer. It's a family run business.

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits

[geezerfreak]

Why ask me Richard? Ask the Srivastava/Varma clan. They have it ... ALL of it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits

[geezerfreak]

Precisely! Follow the money people, follow the money ...

[FairfieldLife] More on missing pandits

[geezerfreak]

http://issuu.com/sandeshusa/docs/epaper_e1a25118f479b6 
http://issuu.com/sandeshusa/docs/epaper_e1a25118f479b6
 

 

[FairfieldLife] The Sickest Buddhist

[geezerfreak]

http://vimeo.com/3288510

[FairfieldLife] Question for 'bill hicks ride' Was: (Re: Which "Maharishi Flip-Flop Teaching" )

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Now that she has not only admitted but *cele-
> > > > brated* the fact that she does NOT have the
> > > > ability to think what she wants and (I suspect) 
> > > > realized that this would put her at the bottom 
> > > > of the class in any meditation teaching other 
> > > > than TM, she is "acting out" to distract 
> > > > attention from this. 
> > > > 
> > > > So it goes. Weak mind in meditation, weak mind
> > > > in conversation.
> > > 
> > > Um, right. Barry can't answer my question, introduces
> > > one fantasy after another to distract attention from
> > > his repeated failure, and mine is the mind "weak in
> > > conversation."
> > 
> > Judy, just for fun, I'm going to call you on this one.
> > 
> > I'll deal with what you believe is a "gotcha." But
> > when I'm finished, I will expect YOU to deal with
> > the questions I will post at the end. You know, the
> > ones you have desperately been trying to avoid. If
> > you don't, I think we all have the right to call
> > you on being a total pussy and a hypocrite.
> 
> No, Barry, what you go on to write has nothing to
> do with my question; it's yet another attempt to
> *evade* it.
> 
> Post #226334, if you want to refresh your memory.
> There are actually *two* questions; it's the
> second one I'd like you to answer, about telling
> the difference.
> 
> Once you've responded to that, I'll consider
> responding to yours. Got it?
> 
> We've waited this long, through half a dozen
> distraction attempts; we'll continue to wait...

Just out of curiosity.who is this "we" you keep referring to?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Erotic Lurking from Curtis

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>  , ruthsimplicity 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>  , "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > I meant "Erratic" lurking but "Erotic" had much better headline
> attention grabbing power!
> > >
> > > Thanks for thinking of me.  I don't want my recent non-posting to
> seem like a negitive statement on FFL.  I apologize for not giving any
> explanation for an obvious change in my posting behavior here.  Just
> dropping out sends the wrong message.
> > >
> > > I have experienced good vibes (even spontaneous kind eulogies) and a
> fantastic opportunity to write regularly, getting feedback from
> intelligent people whom I respect here.  FFL has been very useful for
> developing my thinking on certain topics and has given me much more than
> I ever contributed.
> > >
> > > Anyhooo, I had a profound experience in Florence of what the
> "Renaissance" means to me, a focus on humanity rather than divinity. 
> Like the artists of that period, my attention is shifting.  Spending
> time away from my cyber-focused life here in the US made my time
> priorities change since I have been back.
> > >
> > > Anyone who cares to can contact me by email, I am the easiest person
> to find on the Web.  I've been getting more from one-one-one emails
> lately.  Many people here have touched me. (Well not touched-me touched
> me but you get the idea!) My lurking is too erratic for posting to me
> here to be effective.
> > >
> > > In direct contradiction to all those who posted out flipping the
> cyber bird here: this place rocks and I my life is richer for having
> spent time here. When I'm done with some projects I'm working on now I
> can reconsider spending time on FFL again.
> > >
> > > Like the best sort of old friends or neighborhood bars, I feel as
> though I could drop in any time and my favorite drink would be in front
> of my bar stool in no time.  Cheers!
> > >
> >
> > Man, you are such a nice guy.  No flipping anyone off or anything.>
> 
> Are you kidding me ! He's not as bad as some, but in the past he was
> unbelievably self-serving and harsh.
> 
> OffWorld
> 
Oh really? Coming from youdo you see the irony? Fuck you Off. Fuck Off, Off.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Erotic Lurking from Curtis

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > I meant "Erratic" lurking but "Erotic" had much better headline attention 
> > grabbing power!
> > 
> > Thanks for thinking of me.  I don't want my recent non-posting to seem like 
> > a negitive statement on FFL.  I apologize for not giving any explanation 
> > for an obvious change in my posting behavior here.  Just dropping out sends 
> > the wrong message.
> > 
> > I have experienced good vibes (even spontaneous kind eulogies) and a 
> > fantastic opportunity to write regularly, getting feedback from intelligent 
> > people whom I respect here.  FFL has been very useful for developing my 
> > thinking on certain topics and has given me much more than I ever 
> > contributed.  
> > 
> > Anyhooo, I had a profound experience in Florence of what the "Renaissance" 
> > means to me, a focus on humanity rather than divinity.  Like the artists of 
> > that period, my attention is shifting.  Spending time away from my 
> > cyber-focused life here in the US made my time priorities change since I 
> > have been back.
> > 
> > Anyone who cares to can contact me by email, I am the easiest person to 
> > find on the Web.  I've been getting more from one-one-one emails lately.  
> > Many people here have touched me. (Well not touched-me touched me but you 
> > get the idea!) My lurking is too erratic for posting to me here to be 
> > effective.
> > 
> > In direct contradiction to all those who posted out flipping the cyber bird 
> > here: this place rocks and I my life is richer for having spent time here. 
> > When I'm done with some projects I'm working on now I can reconsider 
> > spending time on FFL again.
> > 
> > Like the best sort of old friends or neighborhood bars, I feel as though I 
> > could drop in any time and my favorite drink would be in front of my bar 
> > stool in no time.  Cheers!
> >
> 
> Man, you are such a nice guy.  No flipping anyone off or anything.  I spend 
> too much time on the net so I understand the need to step back.  
> 
> I'll miss you.  It is not the same without you.
>
Right on Ruth! Curtis is one of those multi-dimensional folks who are rare and 
so much fun to interact with. FFL will be a lesser place without him. But as 
the man sayshe's easy to contact and stay in touch with.

Curtis.man, come out to the left coast why dontcha??? You know how to 
contact me. Do it!

[FairfieldLife] If Maharishi was from an advanced civilization (Re: New Crop Circle)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > The real question, as always, is "does anybody care?".
> > 
> > I figured I'd do one of my once every few months drop
> > ins, just to see what's going on at FFL.
> > 
> > What's the first thing I see? Judy obsessing on the
> > topic of Barry and lying.
> > 
> > It never fucking changes does it.
> 
> P.S.: There's one really good way to change it: 
> Convince Barry to tell the truth.
> 
> I'll bet that's never occurred to you, has it? As
> far as you're concerned, it's just fine for Barry
> to lie all he wants, but it's an outrage for
> anybody to call him on it.
> 
> Just amazing.
>
There are many amazing things in this world tubby. Your obsession with Barry 
isn't one of them though. Sad and boring are the words that come to mind.

[FairfieldLife] If Maharishi was from an advanced civilization (Re: New Crop Circle)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > The real question, as always, is "does anybody care?".
> > 
> > I figured I'd do one of my once every few months drop
> > ins, just to see what's going on at FFL.
> > 
> > What's the first thing I see? Judy obsessing on the
> > topic of Barry and lying.
> > 
> > It never fucking changes does it.
> 
> Did Barry wake you up and call you in for emergency
> duty? He certainly does need some help. But you won't
> be able to do him any good when you're so tired your
> reading comprehension is impaired.
> 
> After you've had a night's sleep, read this again:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > BTW, anybody think Barry's going to acknowledge his
> > > "mistake" here? Or apologize for calling me a liar?
> 
> What you have to do to help him out on *this* one is
> to somehow prove *he* was correct to call *me* a liar.
> 
> Good luck on that, sweet cheeks.
And good luck on your Barry obsession lard ass. What a way to live

[FairfieldLife] Re: Where's Curtis? was: Post Count

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>  , TurquoiseB  wrote:
> 
> > The place has kinda lost its interest for me,
> > now that Curtis has chosen to focus on doing
> > creative things vs. pissing his energy away
> > here, 
> Did Curtis formally announce his departure? What's he doing?
>

Holy cow, did Curtis bail? He was one of the main reasons (along with Ruth and 
Barry) that I check in once in a while.

If he did bail, you should all honor him by buying his CDs. Curtis is one of 
the true talents in the blues world.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex  wrote:
>
> > > 
> > > > The place has kinda lost its interest for me,
> > > > now that Curtis has chosen to focus on doing
> > > > creative things vs. pissing his energy away
> > > > here, and a few others (who, frankly, were 
> > > > the only reasons I stuck around) have done 
> > > > the same.
> > > 
> > > I *thought* I detected a trend toward increasing,
> > > er, flaccidity in your posts recently.
> > > 
> > > > So, if you'd like, consider my "high numbers"
> > > > a "last gasp," an attempt to see if there is
> > > > any life left in the Olde FFL, from my obviously
> > > > jaded perspective. If so, I'll stick around. If
> > > > not, I'll bail.
> > > > 
> > > > And THEN watch what happens to the Judys and
> > > > the Edgs and the Nabbys who...even you have to 
> > > > admit it...live for my posts, and for "refuting" 
> > > > them, if only in their own minds. 
> > > 
> > > I would be *thrilled* if you left. Your posts
> > > rarely do anything but create dissension and
> > > bad feeling; that's obviously your intent and
> > > has been since I first encountered you.
> > > 
> > > While it's amusing to take your posts apart for
> > > their sloppy, shallow thinking, hypocrisy, 
> > > meanspiritedness, and gross dishonesty, having
> > > actual discussions is a lot more fun. With your
> > > constant well-poisoning out of the picture,
> > > there'd be a lot better chance for intelligent
> > > conversation to blossom and flourish.
> > >
> Robert wrote:
> > Have you guys filed for Divorce yet...just 
> > wondering?
> > R.G.
> >
> So, it's all about Judy and Barry.
>
Checking in Pt 2: and WillyTex running his (apparently) endless repeat of the 
"So it's all about." bit. Tex, do you really imagine that anyone finds this 
amusing anymore?

[FairfieldLife] If Maharishi was from an advanced civilization (Re: New Crop Circle)

[geezerfreak]

The real question, as always, is "does anybody care?".

I figured I'd do one of my once every few months drop ins, just to see what's 
going on at FFL.

What's the first thing I see? Judy obsessing on the topic of Barry and lying.

It never fucking changes does it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> BTW, anybody think Barry's going to acknowledge his
> "mistake" here? Or apologize for calling me a liar?
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Barry's just been losing and losing and losing
> > > > > > > > recently.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > To follow up, Richard, read what Judy
> > > > > > > > > actually SAYS in reply to Edg. She keeps
> > > > > > > > > berating him (and others) for not "reading
> > > > > > > > > what I have posted," and "reading the links
> > > > > > > > > I have posted."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Only THEN will Edg (and these others) learn
> > > > > > > > > the "truth," she implies. And what exactly
> > > > > > > > > IS the nature of this "truth?"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Duh. They have to agree with Judy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wrong AGAIN, loser. You won't find any of my
> > > > > > > > posts on crop circles demonizing somebody for
> > > > > > > > disagreeing with me. Not one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ahem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" 
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They look like artworks or, possibly some message but
> > > > > > > > not to get hysterical about as it would seem that if
> > > > > > > > whoever is in command of such technology was mad at us,
> > > > > > > > we would be long gone.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Heh. I don't think that's what scares them. It's
> > > > > > > the idea that some of the circles may not have a
> > > > > > > mundane explanation they find terrifying.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Characterizing those who disagree with you
> > > > > > > as "terrified" isn't demonizing them?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh, how clever of you not to quote the next two
> > > > > > paragraphs:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > What I'm berating the skeptopaths for is
> > > > > > > their cowardice. They don't have the cojones
> > > > > > > to disagree with me on the basis of what I've
> > > > > > > said and the information I've pointed to.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Instead they create armies of straw men and
> > > > > > > beat *them* up, then pound their chests as if
> > > > > > > they'd actually accomplished something. Losers.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Poor, poor, POOR Judy. Someone quoted only
> > > > > the first part of your demonization, not the
> > > > > second part, which is even more demonizing.
> > > > > In the second part, you call them a name
> > > > > ("skeptopaths"),  you say they have no cojones,
> > > > > and you create fantasy images of how they
> > > > > react to the awesome power of your "rightness"
> > > > > on this subject.
> > > > 
> > > > No, loser, I'm "demonizing" them (as the part you
> > > > snipped shows) ...
> > > 
> > > What's most fascinating here is that Judy
> > > chose to LIE about me "snipping."
> > > 
> > > I posted the *entirety* of her post. See
> > > for yourself at:
> > > 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/220723
> > 
> > You've got to excuse Barry. He's at the end of his
> > rope and is grasping at straws. Of course, he has
> > to *manufacture* the straws, because there just aren't
> > any real ones around.
> > 
> > This is the post he deceptively snipped:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/220973
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Mark Meredith dies

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of feste37
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:49 AM
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Mark Meredith dies
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Meredith died yesterday, in Arizona, I believe. He died of a lung
> disease. 
> 
> Some years ago Mark was a regular contributor to FFL. 
> 
> Mark was a great man who pursued truth and honored it. 
> More recently, he was boo_lives. So sorry to hear it. He was a good friend.
> His lung problems resulted from cleaning up some mold in his apartment. The
> mold got into his lungs and ruined them.
>
Oh...man, Boo was one of my favorites here. I could tell he had the complete 
background when reading his insightful and humorous posts.

I will most definitely miss Mark. God speed Boo!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Old Coke or New Coke?

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  wrote:
>
> Which Nabby do you prefer?
> 
> The Old Nabby who so haughtily looked down his nose at us and responded to 
> our posts with the airs of the cult member that he is?
> 
> ...or...
> 
> The New Nabby who so haughtily looks down his nose at us and does NOT respond 
> to our posts with the airs of the cult member that he is?
>
I'll vote for the latter since he'll clearly post out sooner.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Quantum gods don't deserve your faith (?)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > Judy lives to argue. She lives to hang around here
> > (until she posts out which usually doesn't take long)
> > to try and draw folks into faux "debates" with her.
> 
> Says Geeze, ignoring the fact that this was an
> argument with me started by *Ruth*.
>
Uh-huh. Whatever you say, since I know clarifying this uber important point is 
SO very meaningful to you.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Quantum gods don't deserve your faith (?)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > On May 2, 2009, at 9:34 PM, ruthsimplicity wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [I wrote:]
> > > > > >> http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/politics/bogey.html
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> A critique of a paper by Nanda, written by a Belgian
> > > > > >> scholar of Hindu revivalism, multiculturalism, language
> > > > > >> policy issues, ancient Chinese history and philosophy,
> > > > > >> comparative religion, and the Aryan invasion debate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Didn't go on to read this one.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I see a link to an article by Koenraad Elst. We're on
> > > > > several lists together. He comes across as a radical
> > > > > nutcase in most of the emails I've read, he's WAY out
> > > > > there, not unlike some American Vaishnavite Hindatva
> > > > > apologists. So I suspect you're not missing anything
> > > > > by not reading one of his diatribes.
> > > > 
> > > > Oh, that's hysterical.
> > > > 
> > > > Nobody here, of course, is going to bother to read the
> > > > critique; they'll just take Vaj's word for it that the
> > > > guy is a Hindutva nut.
> > > >
> > > He is a self admitted supporter of Hindu nationalism.
> > > I found that out before I read Vaj's post and posted a
> > > response to you.   To be clear, he doesn't appear to
> > > buy all aspects of Hindutva.
> > 
> > Understatement of the year, especially since what
> > we're discussing is Nanda.
> 
> > 
> > > You don't have much faith in people doing their own
> > > research, do you.
> > 
> > Have you read the critique yet?
> >
> Why?  I need to read what he is criticizing for it to be a worthwhile 
> exercise.  Otherwise, what is the point?  To argue with you?
>
Yes. That's the point and it's always the point with this sad case Ruth. Judy, 
for god knows what reasons in her past, lives to argue. I live for music. Barry 
lives for film. Curtis lives for music AND food.

Judy lives to argue. She lives to hang around here (until she posts out which 
usually doesn't take long) to try and draw folks into faux "debates" with her. 
Her methods have become old and stale, but that doesn't stop from continuing to 
trot them out.

I told her "fuck you". You said "blow me". We were both right.

Sweet dreams.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Quantum gods don't deserve your faith (?)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Here are links to two critiques that expose very
> > > > > serious flaws in Nanda's scholarship, logic, and
> > > > > scientific understanding, from very different
> > > > > perspectives:
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://thetrashbin.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/in-defense-of-spirituality/
> > > > > 
> > > > > A critique of an article by Nanda criticizing Sam Harris.
> > > > 
> > > > I read this link.  Of course, now we are getting way
> > > > out there.  Someone criticizing  a criticism.
> > > 
> > > LOL!! Since most of what Nanda writes is criticism,
> > > it means any critique of her work is going to be
> > > "way out there," according to you.
> > > 
> > > > I would have to read Harris, Nanda and then the
> > > > critique of the critique to draw conclusions. It
> > > > looks like it isn't so much a dispute over scholarship
> > > > but a dispute over the rationality of believing that
> > > > ESP and other types of not yet proven mystical notions.
> > > 
> > > That's a disgracefully dishonest take on this critique.
> > >
> > Ruth, mind if I take this one for you?
> > 
> > Judy, you are a disgracefully dishonest fraud. You're
> > insufferably obnoxious and unctuous to boot. Fuck you.
> 
> You're entitled to your opinion.
>
(yawn) what?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Quantum gods don't deserve your faith (?)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> 
> > > Here are links to two critiques that expose very
> > > serious flaws in Nanda's scholarship, logic, and
> > > scientific understanding, from very different
> > > perspectives:
> > > 
> > > http://thetrashbin.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/in-defense-of-spirituality/
> > > 
> > > A critique of an article by Nanda criticizing Sam Harris.
> > 
> > I read this link.  Of course, now we are getting way
> > out there.  Someone criticizing  a criticism.
> 
> LOL!! Since most of what Nanda writes is criticism,
> it means any critique of her work is going to be
> "way out there," according to you.
> 
> > I would have to read Harris, Nanda and then the
> > critique of the critique to draw conclusions. It
> > looks like it isn't so much a dispute over scholarship
> > but a dispute over the rationality of believing that
> > ESP and other types of not yet proven mystical notions.
> 
> That's a disgracefully dishonest take on this critique.
>
Ruth, mind if I take this one for you?

Judy, you are a disgracefully dishonest fraud. You're insufferably obnoxious 
and unctuous to boot. Fuck you.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Quantum gods don't deserve your faith (?)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > For the record, Nanda's work is not exactly 
> > > > > universally admired, even among those who are not
> > > > > "Indian right-wingers."
> > > > > 
> > > > > Just for fun, excerpts from Amazon reader reviews
> > > > > of her book "Prophets Facing Backward" (7 of 12
> > > > > reviewers gave it the lowest possible rating):
> > > > > 
> > > > > "At the micro-level the arguments of the book
> > > > > seem reasonable. But for anyone who knows 
> > > > > science, it is clear that the author does not 
> > > > > have knowledge of the primary texts 
> > > > > (presumably because she does not know 
> > > > > Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian) and she has knit 
> > > > > together fragments from secondary sources in a 
> > > > > manner that makes no sense."
> > > > > -
> > > > > "Apparently, she does not possess adequate 
> > > > > knowledge of the Indian scientific literature, 
> > > > > and she relies on summaries of it which are 
> > > > > out of date or have been refuted. This is one 
> > > > > of the three legs of the stool, and as it 
> > > > > falls, the general argument becomes invalid."
> > > > > -
> > > > > "The book attempts to somehow bind the post-
> > > > > modern critiques of science to the Hindu 
> > > > > challenge to the Orientalist constructions of 
> > > > > India. Given that the Hindu challenge goes 
> > > > > back to at least Raja Ram Mohan Roy and Swami 
> > > > > Vivekananda, much before post-modern ideas 
> > > > > arose, this binding makes no sense. Also, the 
> > > > > connections between Vedanta and modern physics 
> > > > > have been advanced by great scientists like 
> > > > > Schrodinger and Heisenberg and their more 
> > > > > recent followers, therefore to see a Hindu 
> > > > > conspiracy in this is unreasonable."
> > > > > -
> > > > > "Gaps between human comprehension (natural 
> > > > > phenomena) and human perception (observable 
> > > > > phenomena) are definitely NOT something 
> > > > > incompatible with science, per se. Science is 
> > > > > limited in that it may only address the 
> > > > > comprehensible, but it does not, in itself, 
> > > > > imply any limit to the observable."
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://tinyurl.com/cpladm [amazon.com]
> > > > >
> > > > Of course, the reviewers may have their own axes
> > > > to grind. Heck, they could be from TM'ers.
> > > 
> > > Well, *of course*. I mean, Nanda is obviously
> > > *completely* objective and without any
> > > conceivable axe of her own to grind. So any
> > > critique of her criticism of TM is automatically
> > > suspect. That's just a given; we all know that.
> > > 
> > > > She says tough stuff, of course she is not
> > > > going to be universally admired.   It does sound
> > > > like people are making a lot of assumptions,
> > > > especially the first two quotes you posted.  My
> > > > personal opinion, from the little I read of
> > > > Schrodinger and Heisenberg on "philosophical"
> > > > issues  (Ken Wilbur's book Quantum Questions:
> > > > Mystical Writings of the World's Great Physicists)
> > > > is that what scientists have said is frequently
> > > > blown out of proportion.   And, their mystical
> > > > writings are musings, not science.  To tie the
> > > > Vedas to science isn't science.
> > 
> > Huh?  I was speaking only to the quotes you gave.
> > They didn't have any meat.   Where in the world did
> > I argue that she was totally objective so critics
> > are suspect?
> 
> My point was (can't believe I have to explain this)
> that you immediately suspect Nanda's critics of being
> biased, but it apparently hasn't occurred to you to
> wonder if maybe she has her own biases that they're
> reacting to.
> 
> And no, there wasn't much "meat" in the excerpts I
> posted; these are from reader reviews on Amazon, not
> from scholarly critiques. (The point in the third
> excerpt about Vivekananda and Roy is fairly meaty,
> actually.)
> 
> But I'll tell you, if I read reviews that sounded
> like these of a book espousing a theory I favored,
> I'd be a bit concerned. They sound to me as though
> there's meat *behind* them, and I'd want to know
> what it was. Does Nanda not have knowledge of the
> primary texts? Is she relying on secondary sources
> and making connections between fragments that don't
> actually exist? Did she rely on summaries of Indian
> scientific literature that are outdated or have been
> refuted? Does she maintain that the gaps between
> comprehension and perception are incompatible with
> science?
> 
> Interestingly, I found two longer critiques of
> Nanda's work that went into some detail about very
> similar criticisms to those in the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fry at MUM

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Caveat emptor: Those of you who do NOT believe
> > > > that fun has a place in spiritual practice,
> > > > don't read this. It's basically my rap about
> > > > how not only is fun important, it's possibly
> > > > the most important thing going. It's a sales
> > > > pitch for fun *as* spiritual path.
> > >
> > > I personally wouldn't want to be in an
> > > organization where fun had to be "sold" to
> > > me with a "Most Important Thing Going" label
> > > on it.
> > >
> > > IMHO, real fun arises spontaneously from the
> > > simple joy of doing whatever you're doing.
> > > Cranking it up artificially, constantly
> > > having to *contrive* to Have Fun, strikes me
> > > as kind of sad.
> > 
> > I *told* you not to read it if you knew
> > it was going to push your seriousness
> > buttons and make you all crazy, but do
> > you listen to me? Noo.  :-)
> > 
> > Don't read this, either. It'll make you
> > even crazier:
> 
> Did you think any of this defeated my point?
> If so, you need to read it a couple more times.
> 
> Then go back and read your own post describing
> all the "fun" Lenz *arranged* for his followers.
> 
Barry, it seems Sister Aloysius wants you to recite a few Hail Marys!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Respect people's right to anonymity

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
wrote:
>
> Rick Archer wrote:
> > People are entitled to use pseudonyms or 
> > aliases on FFL. If you happen to figure out 
> > the real name of someone using an alias, 
> > please don't publish it.
> >
> Now, Rick, let's get this out in the open, 
> once and for all - do NOT call me 'willytex' 
> - my name is Richard J. Williams, not 'willy', 
> not 'wee willy', not 'wanker', not 'dork'. 
> 
> But you can call me 'Dick', or you can call 
> me 'Dickie', or you can call me 'Little Dick'. 
> 
> Really, I am not a 'Little Dick Head', I'm a 
> 'Big Dick Head'. So, I don't mind what anyone 
> calls me - as long as they call me, and send 
> me cookies. 
> 
> I have all of your IP addresses, all your names 
> and I'm turning them over to a CIA informant 
> named 'geezer', who is a real 'dick'.
> 
Actually Geezer works for me WillyTex. Has for years.  We have him thinking 
he's working for the CIA but it's really the FBI. We've been having him 
infiltrate the inner workings of the TM movement for many years since we are 
seriously concerned about this group taking over every aspect of American life. 
It appears to be on the brink of just such a take over.

We thank you for your political views Mr. WillyTex (you're a true patriot) but 
we have long studied (through Mr. Geezer) your involment with this dangerous 
religious group.

Sincerely,

J. Edgar Hoover Jr.

[FairfieldLife] Passage from "Cartwheels In A Sari"...(new book by ex Sri Chinmoy disciple)

[geezerfreak]

The truth was that nothing was true. Guru Sri Chinmoy was a fabrication dreamed 
and designed by a young and churlish Bangladeshi intent on hypnotizing the 
world. He had manufactured his image as a modern swami, his own presentation, 
to suit his vision. With subtle modifications along the way, he molded himself 
to fit the story he wrote for himself. If Guru was fiction, an invention, I 
realized, then so was I, for he had created me. I could not imagine that 
somewhere inside was a real person who could exist wholly unto herself. A fake, 
created as part of a larger scheme for nearly twenty-five years, I had absorbed 
space, heralding a false life and a false creator. Nothing around me was true; 
the emperor wore no clothes.

Jayanti Tamm

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > You would need to offer people, what they are seeking...
> > Not everyone who learned TM, were seeking enlightenment...
> > Many did not even know what they were seeking, when they learned TM...
> > 
> > People like to eat healthy food...
> > People like authenticity and social interaction.
> > People like music and like to dance.
> > People like to hear poetry.
> > People like to serve and be served...
> > People like to feel 'connected'...
> > As you could tell, from the report from the Englishman who traveled the 
> > country, and couldn't wait to get out of Fairfield...
> > 
> > It's a feeling people are seeking, and that feeling was there at one time...
> > It's not something that can be manipulated...as were so tired of being 
> > manipulated.
> > 
> > I'm not exactly sure, when Maharishi left the organization as it is...
> > But, all it needs, is what the time calls for now...
> > 'Real Change We Can Believe In'
> > R.G.
> >
> 
> While I wonder about the likelihood of some of what you wrote regarding what 
> people like (e.g "eating healthy food"), I agree with most of what you wrote. 
>  TMO could have turned out something completely different along the lines you 
>  have described, and it would have been wonderful.  Envisioning your points 
> caused me to imagine some of the wonderful, fun, and growth-filled 
> experiences that could have been possible - and reminded me of the some in 
> past which will not get into this book - especially with the pictures I 
> have...:). 
> 
> This thought also occurred. I notice that many huge organizations (e.g. 
> governments, big businesses, universities, the bigger mainline churches) all 
> have high similarity to the current TMO in terms of rules, regulations, 
> punishments, etc. (and in terms of the churches and university commencements, 
> rather strange "outerwear" as the fashion industry would say). 
> 
> Am I missing something because of my own biases? Are there large 
> organizations that last, but do not have the characteristics that I listed?
> 
> Science
>
Yes, someone here mentioned it the other day. Alcoholics Anonymous has managed 
to stay remarkably pure and true to it's original mission. I had a friend (a 
musician) who lapsed in that direction and, out of desperation, turned to AA. I 
attended some meetings with him for support and was struck by the simplicity 
and honesty of the approach.

There was no photo of a "head guy'. In fact you really have to dig deep to find 
out about the founder "Bill W". Money? A few bucks thrown in a passed tray to 
cover the room rental, coffee and cookies.

I went to 4 or 5 meetings and found myself incredibly impressed. Since leaving 
the TMO, my cult BS detectors have remained in high gear. I certainly can't 
speak for every long lived organization with self help aspirations but AA 
strikes me as the real deal. I'm sure there are plenty of loonies aboard in 
some capacity but the point isthere is no cult of personality at work here. 
And there is no overt money making going on that I can see.
Seems like the "purity of the teaching" AA style has remained intact.

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Apr 29, 2009, at 10:27 AM, grate.swan wrote:
> > 
> > >> It's been said (sorry don't have a source) that GD told Mahesh to go
> > >> to the mountains and meditate, that he would otherwise only be good
> > >> at making money. If this quote is true, then he disobeyed his masters
> > >> oral instructions. So yes, he would be pissed.
> > >>
> > >
> > > And if Maharishi sold Jytor Math GD would be PO'ed too I suppose.  
> > > But there is as much substance to that as some single unattributed  
> > > quote about what GD said to Maharishi. If Paul Mason can  
> > > substantiate such a quote, it might have some interest.
> > >
> > > However, a single unattributable quote that counters a huge amount  
> > > of counter evidence (see basic model points 1 and 2) is not the  
> > > sort of stuff I invest heavily in. Your mileage may vary.
> > 
> > 
> > IIRC it was one of the Shankaracharyas who said it, a fellow student  
> > of SBS. Perhaps Paul or someone who's still hot on these topics can  
> > give the quote. Earl Kaplan repeats the basic gist of it in his  
> > "letter".
> >
> 
> What another shankaracharaya said doesn't do much for me. 
> 
> First, its clear (to me) the Maharishi had many people doing things that 
> other peers were not aware of. Sometimes asking 4 people to investigate the 
> same thing "but don't tell anyone but me". And sometimes, someone was off in 
> the hinterlands doing some odd thing that was outside the  normal scope of 
> the buzz around Maharishi. 
> 
> If Mahrishi's mind was attuned to GD, or at a minimum GD was a key mentor to 
> him, picking up that "many sources, many outreaches" method from GD seems 
> almost a given (to me). Many modern executives work in the same fashion. That 
> style has its benefits. Thus, that all the brothers around GD did not know 
> completely what the others were doing or had been told seems almost a given. 
> And that some brothers may have picked up snippets but not the whole thing is 
> not surprising. 
> 
> Did GD tell Maharish to go to a cave and meditate: a) his entire life, b) a 
> few years [which Maharishi did as I recall], c) "take a moth or too and do 
> this thing", d) unspecified. I can see all sorts of statements to the effect 
> "go to a cave and meditate" that Maharishi fulfilled and his subsequent 
> activities did not violate that. And I have little confidence that a brother 
> would have had the full instructions that were given to Maharishi. 
> 
> And gurus play tricks -- particularly one brother against another. GD's guru 
> banished him as a "stupid boy" told him to go off to a cave and "rot" so to 
> speak. All the while, the guru had given GD specific instructions -- from the 
> guru to his most prized student. And the "facade" was all to keep the other 
> brothers frm getting jealous and stirred off their own sadhanas. 
> 
> Another "trick" -- the GD directive "Hurry, take this note to the yogi on the 
> top of the mountain 48 hours from here. RUN RUN All Haste!" And while 
> charging up the mountain Maharishi stumbled and the note (magically :)) came 
> open, revealing the note saying in effect 'oh pardons swami ji for disturbing 
> you, but this poor yogi student needed to get some 'fresh air' and heavy 
> exercise as part of his sadhana, so please just read and smile and give some 
> sort of answer that he can run back with. Your buddy, GD" 
> 
> And the possibility that some shankaracharayas dis each other, have petty 
> squabbles, are jealous, etc, is not a huge stretch.
>
The same can be said for some "Maharishis".

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard M"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
> wrote:
> 
> > I really have nothing against the technique itself, never have. I 
> still practice TM every morning for 1/2 hour. I do it for one reason 
> and one reason only. It feels good. I like how I feel afterwards when I 
> read the paper, listen to Mahler and have a tall latte. If it ever 
> feels bad I'll stop. No more "something good" is happening for me. If 
> it feels good, it is good (for me anyway.)
> > 
> 
> That's exactly how I feel too (but please turn down the Mahler!)
> 
> > I've been mildly curious about other practices through the years, 
> > but never enough to jump back in again and devote myself to a
> > new spiritual bus.
> 
> [snip]
> > 
> > I would love to know what Guru Dev would have to say about how 
> > MMY handled his movement. I believe he would have been 
> > absolutely appalled at what MMY did in his name! Based on 
> > everything we know about Guru Dev, he would have taken a VERY
> > dim view of hustling the wealthy for money in the name 
> > of spirituality. 
> > 
> > I imagine him wanting to kick Mahesh's ass all the way back to 
> > the cave
> 
> I'm not with you there.
> 
> I find it odd that many of the same folks here who have left-leaning 
> sympathies also get very precious about the vulnerable Rich getting bad 
> value for their donations to the TMO. A British leftie once famously 
> said that he wanted to *tax the rich until the pips squeaked". Where's 
> your socialist cojones?
> 
> Can you imagine a parallel world in which MMY would have got a better 
> reception on returning to his master e.g.  "Very well done. I know you 
> only gave a taste of bliss to 500 or so villagers nearby - but I'm SO 
> relieved you absolutely refused to accept money to bring bliss to the 
> masses. Pity that chap geezerfreak never got the gift. We had such high 
> hopes for him in his next incarnation, but that'll have to wait now. 
> Still, come sit by me on this cloud"?
> 
> Or could it be that he did NOT think that money was the root of all 
> evil, but just that attachment to money was the sin? "Money is just 
> money".
> 
> And could it be that MMY might say "Master, I've done my time. 
> Next time, please just ask me to stay in a cave rather than try to
> save the world. Can't we leave that to Bono?"
>
Yep, it could be. All we can do here is state our opinions based on the 
observations and input we have received so far in life. Mine tell me that GD 
would have paddled Mahesh's hiny for what he has done.

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > I'm also curious about the true source of the
> > technique of using these particular bija mantras
> > in this way. I would like to think that it was
> > there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence
> > that this was something Maharishi cooked up in
> > 1954.
> 
> Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true:
> he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's
> introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's
> a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed
> the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between
> the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught.
> 
> Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm 
> pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link
> to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way
> back in 1993:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/34zns4
> 
> If you want to get right to that section, click on
> "Read More" at the bottom of the post to get to the
> complete post, then do a text search for "Such a
> reversal" and read from there.
> 
> 
> > Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information
> > about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't
> > that strike any of you as a bit strange?
> 
> Never occurred to me until Paul Mason posed the question
> awhile back, but the answer seemed to me pretty obvious:
> because Guru Dev was a *religious* leader, and MMY was
> trying to package TM as secular. Guru Dev was also strong
> on the behavioral stuff, do's and don'ts, which MMY
> wanted to deemphasize. (Not talking about TMO "rules" 
> but yamas and niyamas and devotion to God and so on.)
> 
> > The TMO became a rotted farce of the original intention
> > long ago. My personal curiosity in the TMO history at
> > this point revolves around when MMY reached the tipping
> > point between the original goal and the money/power/
> > influence goal that ruined the modern day movement.
> 
> Don't know about the timing of the "tipping point" or if
> there ever actually was one. I've never been around him,
> but from reading *about* him, my sense is that once he
> got the idea of "spiritually regenerating" the world
> back in the early days in India, it took hold of him and
> never let go. He couldn't say at any point, OK, that's
> as much as we can do; he had to try to go all the way.
> 
> Temperamentally, he was brilliant at building a movement
> up to a certain point, but then he began to flounder and
> just didn't make the right moves, especially when he
> began to come up against opposition. I think he genuinely
> expected that it would all fall into place, as it did in
> the early years, and he had no sense of what to do when
> that expansion stopped. (Not that he didn't have all
> kinds of ideas, but they obviously weren't effective.)
>
BTW, I may agree with parts of this last paragraph. Personally I think he began 
to flounder when the paranoia that seems to strike all religious megalomaniacs 
sooner or later (see Scientology for a textbook case) set in.

But it could have been a whole lot sooner, as in 1955. This is the time I'm 
fascinated by. I'd love to know what was going on in his head at this time.

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > I'm also curious about the true source of the
> > technique of using these particular bija mantras
> > in this way. I would like to think that it was
> > there long before MMY. But I've heard evidence
> > that this was something Maharishi cooked up in
> > 1954.
> 
> Way he told it, or wanted it told, both are true:
> he rediscovered it. Have you ever read Larry Domash's
> introductory essay to the Collected Papers? There's
> a whole section on MMY's account of how he developed
> the technique. It's made quite clear (albeit between
> the lines) that it wasn't something Guru Dev taught.
> 
> Don't know if you'll find it plausible, but I'm 
> pretty sure you'll find it interesting. Here's a link
> to the first half, which was posted on alt.m.t way
> back in 1993:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/34zns4
> 
> If you want to get right to that section, click on
> "Read More" at the bottom of the post to get to the
> complete post, then do a text search for "Such a
> reversal" and read from there.
> 
> 
> > Ever wonder why the TMO let out almost NO information
> > about Guru Dev and what he actually thought? Didn't
> > that strike any of you as a bit strange?
> 
> Never occurred to me until Paul Mason posed the question
> awhile back, but the answer seemed to me pretty obvious:
> because Guru Dev was a *religious* leader, and MMY was
> trying to package TM as secular. Guru Dev was also strong
> on the behavioral stuff, do's and don'ts, which MMY
> wanted to deemphasize. (Not talking about TMO "rules" 
> but yamas and niyamas and devotion to God and so on.)
> 
> > The TMO became a rotted farce of the original intention
> > long ago. My personal curiosity in the TMO history at
> > this point revolves around when MMY reached the tipping
> > point between the original goal and the money/power/
> > influence goal that ruined the modern day movement.
> 
> Don't know about the timing of the "tipping point" or if
> there ever actually was one. I've never been around him,
> but from reading *about* him, my sense is that once he
> got the idea of "spiritually regenerating" the world
> back in the early days in India, it took hold of him and
> never let go. He couldn't say at any point, OK, that's
> as much as we can do; he had to try to go all the way.
> 
> Temperamentally, he was brilliant at building a movement
> up to a certain point, but then he began to flounder and
> just didn't make the right moves, especially when he
> began to come up against opposition. I think he genuinely
> expected that it would all fall into place, as it did in
> the early years, and he had no sense of what to do when
> that expansion stopped. (Not that he didn't have all
> kinds of ideas, but they obviously weren't effective.)
>
Up late tonight? I have read Domash's paper...picked up on it here if I 
remember correctly.
It's interesting, no doubt about it...in fact I devoured it when it when I 
first came across it for obvious reasons.

But it's just Domash's (one of MMY's close followers at the time of his 
writing) so it's Larry's (understandably) biased view of how it all came to be. 
Fair enough.

Certainly, there are no available writings (Paulcorrect me if you have some 
revelations to share here) indicating that Guru Dev taught anything we would 
recognize as TM.

It's fascinating, no doubt, but for me the real item of interest is what Guru 
Dev would have said about the way MMY organized and conducted his movement 
going right back to 1955.

>From everything I've read (and I've read all there is to read about Guru Dev 
>in English) he would have been aghast at MMY's methods for appealing to the 
>rich and famous for wealth and power.

Guru Dev is dead and gone so all we can do is speculate. My opinion is that he 
would be appalled.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Supreme Master Television, The Future of Education: Consciousness-Based Lea

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 28, 2009, at 9:20 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> > 
> > > From a friend:
> > 
> > One thing I've never quite understood...
> > why does everything always have to be
> > Supreme This or Supreme That?
> > Why all the superlatives?
> 
> Because it's "Vedic," Sal.
> 
> Seriously. 
> 
> Haven't you ever read the Vedas? And the other
> Indian literature? I once saw a lecture by 
> Joseph Campbell in which he coined a phrase
> for the Indian approach to gods and goddesses:
> "polypantheism" -- the belief that there are
> many gods, all of whom are supreme.
> 
> That's really it. You read one verse in Indian
> literature, and Vishnu is "supreme." You read
> another verse, and it's Shiva who is "supreme."
> The next verse, Brahma is "supreme." And in
> the next verse, Lakshmi is "supreme."
> 
> Indians really had this cultural or racial
> *hangup* about "supreme." Still do, as far as
> I can tell; that's why we see such fanatical
> religious nationalism all over India, and in
> some of its spun-off foreign missionaries,
> like the TM movement.
> 
> Now step back and look at the TM movement. 
> Consider how many of its adherents think of
> themselves as somehow "special," more important
> than other people because they -- unlike the
> peons -- bounce on their butts and spend money
> on yagyas and supporting pundits. Think about
> where TM stands in the pantheon of meditation
> techniques -- right at the top. *Every* other
> technique is lesser, *every single one of them*.
> They'll tell you that in no uncertain terms,
> even though they've never tried any of the 
> others and would never, ever consider doing
> so because that would "lower" them to practice
> something "less supreme."
> 
> Now think about the Gita and all of the other
> Indian "scriptures" that are all about *battle*,
> and who "wins" those battles. Now relate that
> to the tendency we have seen for years on this
> forum for some people to feel *compelled* to
> turn every discussion *into* a battle, and to
> "win" that battle, if only in their "supreme"
> minds.
> 
> "Supreme" is a disease, Sal. The Indian people
> suffer from it. Many people in other countries
> and cultures suffer from it as well. 
> 
> One of the reasons that the Hindu and Vedic
> teachers of his time were so down on Buddha is
> that he preached an *alternative* to "supreme."
> He came along with a message that said that
> *everyone* had an equal shot at enlightenment,
> and that no one needed any priests or pundits
> to "intercede" with them with the "gods" to 
> realize that enlightenment. 
> 
> This was not only heresy -- anti-supremictyitude
> -- it was disruptive to the social order, which
> was all *about* supremicityitude. The caste system,
> the system of having to go to priests (*the* 
> supreme, because they were Brahmins and you 
> weren't) and pay them money to help you get
> through the day, or become enlightened.
> 
> "Supreme" and caring about being "supreme" is IMO
> the biggest obstacle to leading a happy life and
> to realizing one's enlightenment, if you care
> about it. Almost by definition, if you believe
> that on some level you are "supreme," how can 
> you ever realize a state of Unity?
> 
> The only thing "supreme" about "supreme" is that
> believing in it and trying to achieve it is the
> most effective method I've ever seen for fight-
> ing enlightenment and making sure it never
> happens. 
> 
> Thus its popularity.
> 
> Because if you actually do realize enlightenment,
> one of the first things you realize is not only
> that you are just like everyone else, you *are*
> everyone else. We're all bozos on this bus;
> ain't no "supreme" bozo in the bunch.
>
Bravo Barryright up there with your best posts.  I hope Diana Ross is 
reading!

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "guyfawkes91"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher 
> > > > > > level of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, 
> > > > > > groups, etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this 
> > > > > > last point will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through 
> > > > > > age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, 
> > > > > > money/buildings and so on will not work. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear 
> > > > > > to me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me 
> > > > > > (not difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he 
> > > > > > realized that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in 
> > > > > > his lifetime ("in this generation"). 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Science
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance 
> > > > > of success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the 
> > > > > TMO think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is 
> > > > > because of lack of "coherence" in collective consciousness. So the 
> > > > > reasoning goes that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of 
> > > > > flyers more people will be attracted. It allows the idea to develop 
> > > > > that because there's going to be a phase transition and suddenly 
> > > > > everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that it's OK to piss 
> > > > > people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because new 
> > > > > goodwill will be generated "after the phase transition". 
> > > > > 
> > > > > What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the 
> > > > > real value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run 
> > > > > down and replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and 
> > > > > land. For an organization that wants to get its idea across, 
> > > > > buildings and land have very little value compared with credibility 
> > > > > and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert goodwill into 
> > > > > property, but it's hard to go the other way. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would 
> > > > > learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a 
> > > > > living and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. 
> > > > > TM on it's own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot 
> > > > > are willing to encourage others. The fact that people who leave the 
> > > > > official movement and teach independently have no problem attracting 
> > > > > customers is an irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's 
> > > > > irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly it's 
> > > > > irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the 
> > > > > TMO start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just 
> > > > > maybe the reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack 
> > > > > of coherence, maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're 
> > > > > dealing with very slow learners here.
> > > > > 
> > > > > At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high 
> > > > > prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as 
> > > > > kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to 
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "guyfawkes91"  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > > I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level 
> > > > of consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, 
> > > > etc.,)so that people will be attracted to TM - though this last point 
> > > > will be like a red flag to a bull for some here on FFL.  
> > > > 
> > > > If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through 
> > > > age/death etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings 
> > > > and so on will not work. 
> > > > 
> > > > When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to 
> > > > me from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not 
> > > > difficult), MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized 
> > > > that he was not going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime 
> > > > ("in this generation"). 
> > > > 
> > > > Science
> > > >
> > > 
> > > It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of 
> > > success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO 
> > > think the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because 
> > > of lack of "coherence" in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes 
> > > that by doing yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will 
> > > be attracted. It allows the idea to develop that because there's going to 
> > > be a phase transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty 
> > > Rajas that it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the 
> > > toilet because new goodwill will be generated "after the phase 
> > > transition". 
> > > 
> > > What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real 
> > > value, the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and 
> > > replaced with fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an 
> > > organization that wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have 
> > > very little value compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. 
> > > You can easily convert goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the 
> > > other way. 
> > > 
> > > But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would 
> > > learn TM anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living 
> > > and the people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's 
> > > own is very good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to 
> > > encourage others. The fact that people who leave the official movement 
> > > and teach independently have no problem attracting customers is an 
> > > irritant in more ways than one. Firstly it's irritating because the TMO 
> > > doesn't get the money, but mostly it's irritating because it shows up the 
> > > TMO and makes people inside the TMO start to doubt the overall strategy 
> > > and think that maybe, just maybe the reason more people aren't learning 
> > > TM isn't because of lack of coherence, maybe they're doing something 
> > > wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very slow learners here.
> > > 
> > > At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high 
> > > prices, taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as 
> > > kings and living in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract 
> > > lots of people. Some cracks are starting to appear and reality is 
> > > starting to dawn, but it's like dealing with a mental patient who's 
> > > coming out of a very florid psychosis or someone coming down from a very 
> > > intense acid trip in which they've lost the plot. There's a growing half 
> > > recognized feeling that things which they believed to be true, aren't 
> > > actually true, but insight into their condition hasn't yet broken through.
> > > 
> > > Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the 
> > > delusionists. The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got 
> > > together for one last push then everything would c

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "guyfawkes91"  wrote:
>
> 
> > I see it as a race against time and betting on creating a higher level of 
> > consciousness through current work (pundits, yagyas, groups, etc.,)so that 
> > people will be attracted to TM - though this last point will be like a red 
> > flag to a bull for some here on FFL.  
> > 
> > If the number of people in the TMO continues to decline through age/death 
> > etc., and there are no new people coming in, money/buildings and so on will 
> > not work. 
> > 
> > When I was still aligned with TMO, even in early 90's it was clear to me 
> > from friends who worked closer to the inner circle than me (not difficult), 
> > MMY clearly stated to his inner circle that he realized that he was not 
> > going to achieve what he had intended in his lifetime ("in this 
> > generation"). 
> > 
> > Science
> >
> 
> It's quite sad really. It's a hail mary pass with nearly zero chance of 
> success. I can see that the general idea is that people inside the TMO think 
> the reason people outside aren't attracted to learn TM is because of lack of 
> "coherence" in collective consciousness. So the reasoning goes that by doing 
> yagyas and creating large groups of flyers more people will be attracted. It 
> allows the idea to develop that because there's going to be a phase 
> transition and suddenly everyone will bow down to the almighty Rajas that 
> it's OK to piss people off and flush all the goodwill down the toilet because 
> new goodwill will be generated "after the phase transition". 
> 
> What's happened, and to an extent is still happening, is that the real value, 
> the human resources and general goodwill is being run down and replaced with 
> fantasy value in the form of buildings and land. For an organization that 
> wants to get its idea across, buildings and land have very little value 
> compared with credibility and goodwill in the world. You can easily convert 
> goodwill into property, but it's hard to go the other way. 
> 
> But of course we know that the reality is that loads of people would learn TM 
> anyway if only the price was right, teachers could earn a living and the 
> people in the TMO didn't behave like a lot of idiots. TM on it's own is very 
> good, most people get some benefit and a lot are willing to encourage others. 
> The fact that people who leave the official movement and teach independently 
> have no problem attracting customers is an irritant in more ways than one. 
> Firstly it's irritating because the TMO doesn't get the money, but mostly 
> it's irritating because it shows up the TMO and makes people inside the TMO 
> start to doubt the overall strategy and think that maybe, just maybe the 
> reason more people aren't learning TM isn't because of lack of coherence, 
> maybe they're doing something wrong (duhhh!). We're dealing with very 
> slow learners here.
> 
> At some point the slow learners might realize that charging very high prices, 
> taking all the profit away from the teachers, dressing up as kings and living 
> in a fantasy world might not be the best way to attract lots of people. Some 
> cracks are starting to appear and reality is starting to dawn, but it's like 
> dealing with a mental patient who's coming out of a very florid psychosis or 
> someone coming down from a very intense acid trip in which they've lost the 
> plot. There's a growing half recognized feeling that things which they 
> believed to be true, aren't actually true, but insight into their condition 
> hasn't yet broken through.
> 
> Currently the donations from wealthy people are supporting the delusionists. 
> The DLF makes it look like if only some money could be got together for one 
> last push then everything would come out right. In 5 to 10 years time that 
> idea will be wearing a bit thin.
> 
> Eventually people might realize that the reason Maharishi couldn't achieve 
> what he wanted "in this generation" wasn't lack of coherence, but simple 
> stupidity and delusional thinking. If the TMO hadn't gone off into a fantasy 
> world but had stayed engaged with reality and stayed focused on just teaching 
> TM, then the situation would be a lot brighter than it is.
> 
> At that point, the fact that all the real wealth, in the form of intangible 
> goodwill has been sucked out of the movement over the last 30 years to 
> support plans that haven't worked is going to be a very hard idea to get to 
> grips with. All those buildings and property assets that Maharishi put his 
> faith in will be seen as worthless when there's no one to fill them or make 
> use of them. It will take time, but that awful realization will come, and 
> then the movement will have a chance again to grow.
> 
> What would help people get out of their delusions is if they could see the 
> full extent of all the dubious business dealings that have gone on in the 
> last 20 years. There are very good reasons why Bevan refuses to publish a 
> full in

[FairfieldLife] Re: Only 21% of Americans identify with the Republican Party

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
wrote:
>
> do.rflex wrote:
> > ~~ The Incredible Shrinking Republican Party ~~
> > 
> Soon, over one third of the U.S. Senate and all 
> of the House of Representatives will be up for 
> re-lection. That's when the American voters will 
> decide who or not has been doing their job. 
> 
> If the payroll taxes are higher, and the economy 
> is still on the down-slide, and there is still a 
> double-digit deficit, the current congressional 
> leaders will be voted out of office. It isn't 
> just the bail-outs that get people angry, it's 
> the runaway spending and pork-barreling by the 
> congress. 
> 
> There will be 'Tea Parties' all over the country! 
> 
> If deflation, due to government spending, causes 
> the dollar to slide, there will be hell to pay 
> around election time in two years. 
> 
> If there is no economic success with the current 
> administration, my prediction is that independent 
> candidates will take over the U.S. Congress - 
> both the current Repugs and the Dems will be out 
> of a job.
> 
> "Fifty-one percent (51%) of Americans have a 
> favorable view of the "tea parties" held nationwide 
> last week, including 32% who say their view of the 
> events is Very favorable."
> 
> Full report: 
> 
> '51% View Tea Parties Favorably, Political Class 
> Strongly Disagrees'
> Rasmussen Reports, Monday, April 20, 2009
> http://tinyurl.com/c7grm9
>
Dream on Willy boy.

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
wrote:
>
> Billy wrote:
> > > I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about 
> > > money, personally, hence he would not 
> > > qualify under your posting...now you and 
> > > I, well, that's another matter isn't it.
> > >
> gezzerfreak wrote:
> > Did you ever work personally with him Billy?
> >
> Apparently Billy worked very closely with both 
> the Marshy and Charles F. Lutes. William P. 
> Murphy (Billy) is on the list of TM teachers 
> in good standing. 
> 
> But please note that the "geezerfreak" is not 
> on the list and apparently never even heard 
> of a TMO list, not even a TMO mailing list. 
> Go figure. I guess the geezer has been out of
> the loop for about thirty years.
> 
> From what I've read, the "geezer" is an 
> informant working for the C.I.A. Do not trust 
> this guy, Billy, he has no information of value 
> to offer - he is a known impostor; a troll
> and is not allowed inside the Patanjali Golden
> Dome of Pure Knowledge. 
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the "geezer" has 
> been banned from setting foot on the MUM 
> campus - his name is mud all over Fairfield.
> From what I've heard, the "geezer' IS on the
> TMO black list. 
> 
> He's certainly on my list - right up there
> with Lon P. Stacks and Tom Pall, nut-cases 
> and fruitcakes to avoid.
>
Word!

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shukra69"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would 
> > > > > > > > think MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal 
> > > > > > > > gratification.  If that's what you think, you clearly don't 
> > > > > > > > understand MMY, IMO.  MMY was the ultimate and original True 
> > > > > > > > Believer!
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Personal gratification...interesting concept.  If you mean money 
> > > > > > > to buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions.  The 
> > > > > > > motivations for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would 
> > > > > > > not be at that level.  Donald Trump isn't at that level.  The 
> > > > > > > super rich do it for personal reasons.  Could be a competitive 
> > > > > > > instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended up with so 
> > > > > > > much.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last 
> > > > > > > expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting 
> > > > > > > (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of 
> > > > > > > Maharishi towers all over the world.  Maharishi was consumed with 
> > > > > > > a desire to be viewed and remembered as the most important man in 
> > > > > > > history. You can spin it any way you want but here are the facts:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide 
> > > > > > > his value to the world as with most historically great men, he 
> > > > > > > decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over 
> > > > > > > the world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know 
> > > > > > > the name that some random journalist in South India used to 
> > > > > > > describe him that he then decided to make the centerpiece of his 
> > > > > > > personal brand.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Maharishi. The most important man in all of history.  After all, 
> > > > > > > he bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove 
> > > > > > > it!
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" 
> > > > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" 
> > > > > > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the 
> > > > > > > > > > > one, and love the >>other; or else he will hold to the 
> > > > > > > > > > > one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve >>God and 
> > > > > > > > > > > mammon [worldly wealth]. 
> > > > > > > > > > > Matthew 6:24 [KJV]
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > I don't think MMY ever gave a wit abo

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shukra69"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think 
> > > > > > MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal 
> > > > > > gratification.  If that's what you think, you clearly don't 
> > > > > > understand MMY, IMO.  MMY was the ultimate and original True 
> > > > > > Believer!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Personal gratification...interesting concept.  If you mean money to 
> > > > > buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions.  The motivations 
> > > > > for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that 
> > > > > level.  Donald Trump isn't at that level.  The super rich do it for 
> > > > > personal reasons.  Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably 
> > > > > part of why Donald ended up with so much.
> > > > > 
> > > > > But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last 
> > > > > expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting 
> > > > > (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi 
> > > > > towers all over the world.  Maharishi was consumed with a desire to 
> > > > > be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You 
> > > > > can spin it any way you want but here are the facts:
> > > > > 
> > > > > He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his 
> > > > > value to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to 
> > > > > buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with 
> > > > > his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name that some 
> > > > > random journalist in South India used to describe him that he then 
> > > > > decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Maharishi. The most important man in all of history.  After all, he 
> > > > > bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it!
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the 
> > > > > > > > > one, and love the >>other; or else he will hold to the one, 
> > > > > > > > > and despise the other. Ye cannot serve >>God and mammon 
> > > > > > > > > [worldly wealth]. 
> > > > > > > > > Matthew 6:24 [KJV]
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, 
> > > > > > > > hence he would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, 
> > > > > > > > well, that's another matter isn't it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Did you ever work personally with him Billy?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an 
> > > > > > advanced technique from him while spending time with him in 
> > > > > > Mallorca and Italy, and was employed and taught at two TM centers 
> > > > > > in the LA area.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think 
> > > > > > MMY could be consumed with mone

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
> > >
> > > But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY 
> > > could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification.  If 
> > > that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO.  MMY was 
> > > the ultimate and original True Believer!
> > 
> > Personal gratification...interesting concept.  If you mean money to buy 
> > lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions.  The motivations for a man 
> > to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that level.  Donald 
> > Trump isn't at that level.  The super rich do it for personal reasons.  
> > Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably part of why Donald ended 
> > up with so much.
> > 
> > But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last expressed 
> > desires for money from his minions, the erecting (unfortunate choice of 
> > words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi towers all over the world.  
> > Maharishi was consumed with a desire to be viewed and remembered as the 
> > most important man in history. You can spin it any way you want but here 
> > are the facts:
> > 
> > He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide his value 
> > to the world as with most historically great men, he decided to buy his own 
> > monuments to himself, buildings all over the world with his presumptively 
> > assumed name on them. You know the name that some random journalist in 
> > South India used to describe him that he then decided to make the 
> > centerpiece of his personal brand.
> > 
> > Maharishi. The most important man in all of history.  After all, he bought 
> > all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it!
> > 
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and 
> > > > > > love the >>other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the 
> > > > > > other. Ye cannot serve >>God and mammon [worldly wealth]. 
> > > > > > Matthew 6:24 [KJV]
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he 
> > > > > would not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's 
> > > > > another matter isn't it.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Did you ever work personally with him Billy?
> > > 
> > > Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced 
> > > technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, 
> > > and was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area.
> > > 
> > > But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY 
> > > could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification.  If 
> > > that's what you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO.  MMY was 
> > > the ultimate and original True Believer!
> > >
> >
> In the beginning of his Spiritual Regeneration Movement, it was different.
> Something changed, somewhere along the line...
> Sometime around 1980, the collective consciousness changed...
> John Lennon was no longer with us, and the Reagan Revolution took hold.
> Money became the answer to everything.
> The counter-culture movement, had met it's match, as Reagan attempted to 
> destroy anything and everything the counter-culture stood for.
> Love and Peace were mocked and ridiculed.
> Then it became like, show me the money...
> 
> This played itself out, in a cycle that produced George W. Bush...
> Grind down the people, by judging them by how much they had in their bank 
> acct...
> Money suffocates spirit...the spirit of mammon wiped out the innocence.
> So, as we all became victimized by the class; I am better than you, because I 
> have money and you don't.
> There is no unity, because we are in, and you are out.
> The unity of spirit of people involved and devoted to the movement, was 
> compromised, and the movement became an

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Apr 27, 2009, at 6:15 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think  
> > >> MMY could be consumed with money and/or sex for personal  
> > >> gratification.  If that's what you think, you clearly don't  
> > >> understand MMY, IMO.  MMY was the ultimate and original True  
> > >> Believer!
> > >
> > > Personal gratification...interesting concept.  If you mean money to  
> > > buy lots of shit, that doesn't take multi-millions.  The motivations  
> > > for a man to acquire as much as Maharishi did would not be at that  
> > > level.  Donald Trump isn't at that level.  The super rich do it for  
> > > personal reasons.  Could be a competitive instinct, that is probably  
> > > part of why Donald ended up with so much.
> > >
> > > But for Maharishi I think we need to look to one of his last  
> > > expressed desires for money from his minions, the erecting  
> > > (unfortunate choice of words given their phallic shape) of Maharishi  
> > > towers all over the world.  Maharishi was consumed with a desire to  
> > > be viewed and remembered as the most important man in history. You  
> > > can spin it any way you want but here are the facts:
> > >
> > > He died as a multi-millionaire and rather then let history decide  
> > > his value to the world as with most historically great men, he  
> > > decided to buy his own monuments to himself, buildings all over the  
> > > world with his presumptively assumed name on them. You know the name  
> > > that some random journalist in South India used to describe him that  
> > > he then decided to make the centerpiece of his personal brand.
> > >
> > > Maharishi. The most important man in all of history.  After all, he  
> > > bought all those buildings and put his name on them to prove it!
> > 
> > 
> > Let's not forget that he also gave his ultimate teachings on  
> > enlightenment...for a cool MILLION. This includes some on this list.  
> >  From those who've talked about what they received, it was just BS.  
> > Little new, certainly nothing enlightening. For those who were very  
> > attached to his former personality and earlier memories, it was a  
> > chance to buy video darshan, as he sequestered himself a way, like a  
> > Hindu Howard Hughes. Cha ching.
> > 
> > He was the archetypal megalomaniacal, materialistic and Asuriac guru  
> > of our time. And he died likely from complications from his sweetness  
> > addiction and his own diabetes, in a mansion designed to resemble a  
> > king's palace. A tacky king's palace.
> > 
> > What's most interesting to me is the incredible, monumental effort his  
> > followers go to to cover for him and hide his avaricious ambitions.
> >
> 
> You say tomato, I say tomato.
> 
> L.

That might be the most lame response I can ever remember you posting Lawson.

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love 
> > > > the >>other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye 
> > > > cannot serve >>God and mammon [worldly wealth]. 
> > > > Matthew 6:24 [KJV]
> > > 
> > > I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would 
> > > not qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another 
> > > matter isn't it.
> > >
> > 
> > Did you ever work personally with him Billy?
> 
> Nopemet him several times, spoke to him briefly, got an advanced 
> technique from him while spending time with him in Mallorca and Italy, and 
> was employed and taught at two TM centers in the LA area.
> 
> But, to the point I think it's laughable that people would think MMY could be 
> consumed with money and/or sex for personal gratification.  If that's what 
> you think, you clearly don't understand MMY, IMO.  MMY was the ultimate and 
> original True Believer!
>
So you never worked with him on a continuing basis. Many who had close (daily) 
contact with MMY saw for themselves how he would manipulate those with access 
to large amounts of money to part with it for his own purposes. I saw it as 
well although my contact with him was not daily. If you've read the Sexy Sadie 
files then you also know that a number of his personal assistants have no doubt 
at all about his dalliances with women in the 60s and 70s.

So...what you are saying is that your opinion is all based on a feeling, 
correct?

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Transcending the TM movement'

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG."  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
> 
> > No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the 
> > >>other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot 
> > serve >>God and mammon [worldly wealth]. 
> > Matthew 6:24 [KJV]
> 
> I don't think MMY ever gave a wit about money, personally, hence he would not 
> qualify under your posting...now you and I, well, that's another matter isn't 
> it.
>

Did you ever work personally with him Billy?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Results on TM

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have put the phrase "transcendental meditation" into Google and it 
> > > > indicates approximately 640,000 results are available (I presume this 
> > > > is worldwide in the English language). Even given the small number of 
> > > > new meditators since the late 70's, this seems like very few results. 
> > > > 
> > > > For a comparison of sorts, I put in the term "scientology" and Google 
> > > > indicates over 6 million results. 
> > > > 
> > > > I have no idea how the number of results are generated.  Anybody have 
> > > > any idea if the numbers of results have any meaning regarding current 
> > > > awareness of TM by English-speaking persons worldwide?
> > > > 
> > > > Science
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 994,000 scientology cult
> > > 
> > > 58,300 transcendental meditation cult
> > >
> > 
> > TM cult: 1,410,000 we have a winner!
> >
> 
> TM Benefits appears to trump TM Cult 8:1
> 
> Results 1 - 10 of about 12,200,000 for TM benefits. (0.07 seconds)
>
Yes! This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that TM is the best, most 
illustrious and glorious ultra-special bus of all!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Results on TM

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have put the phrase "transcendental meditation" into Google and it 
> > > > indicates approximately 640,000 results are available (I presume this 
> > > > is worldwide in the English language). Even given the small number of 
> > > > new meditators since the late 70's, this seems like very few results. 
> > > > 
> > > > For a comparison of sorts, I put in the term "scientology" and Google 
> > > > indicates over 6 million results. 
> > > > 
> > > > I have no idea how the number of results are generated.  Anybody have 
> > > > any idea if the numbers of results have any meaning regarding current 
> > > > awareness of TM by English-speaking persons worldwide?
> > > > 
> > > > Science
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 994,000 scientology cult
> > > 
> > > 58,300 transcendental meditation cult
> > >
> > 
> > TM cult: 1,410,000 we have a winner!
> >
> 
> TM Benefits appears to trump TM Cult 8:1
> 
> Results 1 - 10 of about 12,200,000 for TM benefits. (0.07 seconds)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: "On The Program" and "Off The Program"

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Judy, he didn't "pretend" it was about ice cream. It
> > > > WAS about ice cream!
> > > 
> > > If you say so. As I noted, my thought that it was about
> > > your leaving the hotel at night was a function of
> > > Barry's errors concerning the frequency and time of day.
> > > 
> > > Did they ever say what the problem was with eating ice
> > > cream? And were you allowed to leave the hotel for
> > > other reasons, just not for ice cream?
> > > 
> > > ('Cause, see, what Barry's so hot under the collar about
> > > is its being against the rules to leave the course
> > > facility. I think he'd be relieved if he could switch to
> > > being hot under the collar about its being against the
> > > rules to eat ice cream, so you'd be doing him a favor if
> > > you were to elaborate convincingly on that.)
> > >
> > No, the whole point was that I had gone off site to 
> > get the coup Denmark. I thought I made that clear...
> 
> Sheesh. But that's what I was saying Barry was
> pretending about--that it was about eating ice
> cream, when it was actually about going off-site,
> even in the middle of the day once a week!
> 
> So I was right, he *was* pretending it was about
> ice cream, because that made a better story.
> 
> It's a shame you guys didn't get an afternoon a
> week or something to roam around and see the sights
> and buy things. Waste of a good European trip, I'd
> say.
>
I don't see where Barry was "pretending" anything. The point is...I got in hot 
water for going into an ice cream shop in Arosa and buying a cuop denmark week 
after week. Some crime, eh?

I agree that not seeing the sites was a waste. Years later, as part of my music 
work, I spent a week in and around Montreux for the jazz festival. It was 
amazing to be back in the country and be really able to see it for the first 
time.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "On The Program" and "Off The Program"

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > Judy, he didn't "pretend" it was about ice cream. It
> > WAS about ice cream!
> 
> If you say so. As I noted, my thought that it was about
> your leaving the hotel at night was a function of
> Barry's errors concerning the frequency and time of day.
> 
> Did they ever say what the problem was with eating ice
> cream? And were you allowed to leave the hotel for
> other reasons, just not for ice cream?
> 
> ('Cause, see, what Barry's so hot under the collar about
> is its being against the rules to leave the course
> facility. I think he'd be relieved if he could switch to
> being hot under the collar about its being against the
> rules to eat ice cream, so you'd be doing him a favor if
> you were to elaborate convincingly on that.)
>
No, the whole point was that I had gone off site to get the coup Denmark. I 
thought I made that clearwe had Swiss chard day after day. Going outside to 
get my coup Denmark was the infraction. If I had broken into the kitchen to get 
my "drugs" I would have also been in trouble but not like going into the 
dreaded ice cream shop. You were not to leave the hotel except for brief 
periods of controlled "walk and talk".

I'm sure everyone who was there witnessed the same phenomenon every time we 
would roll into a  new town. The shopkeepers would be all excited that buss 
loads of (mostly) Americans were coming to town, only to find out that we never 
went anywhere or brought anything. One shop did benefit though and that was the 
apothecary. This was the only place to get the camphor that we needed for our 
puja practice. The pharmacist finally asked me one daywhy are you all 
coming here to buy camphor?? What do you do with it? I told him we used it as 
part of a religious right. He just shook his head and gave it to me.

Oh...this guy also did a booming business with his Back Flower Remedies, which 
were a big thing at the time. He sold a shit load of camphor and Bach Rescue 
Remedy! 

[FairfieldLife] Re: "On The Program" and "Off The Program"

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Apr 26, 2009, at 6:39 PM, geezerfreak wrote:
> 
> > OK, let me jump in here. When I read the first line in Barry's post  
> > I immediately posted since it made me think of my own experience. I  
> > had no idea he was talking about me! Now that I've gone back to read  
> > the post more carefully I'm semi-amazed. Although this was an  
> > afternoon event his recall of the other events blows my mind. Barry  
> > I don't even recall telling you about this but you remember detail  
> > that I had completely forgotten until reading through this again.  
> > The "council", my laughing, yes...all true. How in the hell can you  
> > remember something that happened to someone else over 30 years ago.
> >
> > Judy, he didn't "pretend" it was about ice cream. It WAS about ice  
> > cream!
> 
> What flavor?
> 
> Sal
>
Coup Demarksvanilla ice cream with chocolate sauce. Let me tell you 
Salwhen you've been suffering with swiss chard day after day (god how I 
hated that stuff) a stiff Coup Denmark could straighten you right out!

[FairfieldLife] Re: "On The Program" and "Off The Program"

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I had always wondered, frankly, whether what you got
> > > > > in trouble for wasn't so much eating ice cream but 
> > > > > for leaving the hotel every night, but you say you did
> > > > > it only once a week and don't say whether it was at
> > > > > night, so maybe not.
> > > > 
> > > > Yeah, because an adult "getting in trouble"
> > > > for the crime of leaving his hotel at night
> > > > is sane, whereas "getting in trouble" for
> > > > eating ice cream isn't.  :-)
> > > 
> > > SanER, as you well know, especially on a 
> > > residential course where you're doing rounding.
> > 
> > And?
> > 
> > On *every* in-residence course I have ever
> > taken from *every* other spiritual organ-
> > ization (that's over 40 at this point), 
> > course participants were allowed to leave 
> > the facilities whenever they wanted. They 
> > were allowed to attend or not attend 
> > lectures or classes, as they pleased, and 
> > on many of these retreats participants 
> > were actually *encouraged* to go into town 
> > or drive to nearby tourist attractions to
> > see the sights.
> > 
> > What is it about TM "rounding" that you are
> > suggesting makes it "sanER" to require course
> > participants to not leave the hotel?
> > 
> > You're not implying that TM "rounding" makes
> > them "spaced out" and unable to take care of
> > themselves in public are you?
> 
> I thought that was one of your *complaints* about
> TM and TMers, that they got all "spaced out" when
> they did a lot of meditation. (Of course, *you*
> never did.)
> 
> > That hardly sounds "100% life-supporting."
> 
> It's a *rounding course*, Barry.
> 
>  Or is it that
> > if they were allowed to leave the hotel they
> > might do something that would embarrass the
> > TM organization?
> 
> I should think it would be embarrassing to the
> organization if they couldn't take care of 
> themselves in public, don't you?
> 
> > Please explain to us why requiring adults on
> > TM residence courses to stay confined to their
> > hotels is in your opinion "sanER."
> 
> SanER than making a big stink about eating ice
> cream.
> 
>  Explain to
> > us why you even consider it LEGAL.
> 
> Well, of course it's legal. They're free to leave
> the course any time if they don't want to follow
> the rules.
> 
> > > But it wouldn't have been nearly as good a 
> > > *story* if it were about leaving the hotel at
> > > night, would it?
> > 
> > Geez told me this story over *three decades
> > ago*. My memory of it was that he told me at
> > the time that he preferred the ice cream to
> > drinking that god-awful hot milk with cardamom
> > gick that they wanted him to drink after even-
> > ing meetings. That would have made it at night.
> 
> Not what I'm talking about, as you know. You
> thought it was at night, but you didn't think
> it would make such a good story if you said that's
> why he got in trouble, so you pretended it was
> about ice cream.
> 
OK, let me jump in here. When I read the first line in Barry's post I 
immediately posted since it made me think of my own experience. I had no idea 
he was talking about me! Now that I've gone back to read the post more 
carefully I'm semi-amazed. Although this was an afternoon event his recall of 
the other events blows my mind. Barry I don't even recall telling you about 
this but you remember detail that I had completely forgotten until reading 
through this again. The "council", my laughing, yes...all true. How in the hell 
can you remember something that happened to someone else over 30 years ago.

Judy, he didn't "pretend" it was about ice cream. It WAS about ice cream!

[FairfieldLife] Re: "On The Program" and "Off The Program"

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > I had always wondered, frankly, whether what you got
> > in trouble for wasn't so much eating ice cream but 
> > for leaving the hotel every night, but you say you did
> > it only once a week and don't say whether it was at
> > night, so maybe not.
> 
> Yeah, because an adult "getting in trouble"
> for the crime of leaving his hotel at night
> is sane, whereas "getting in trouble" for
> eating ice cream isn't.  :-)
> 
> The things that people who DO WHAT THEY'RE
> TOLD WITHOUT QUESTION can consider sane
> never cease to amaze me.
>

I've mentioned this new book "Cartwheels in a Sari" (written by a former 
disciple of Sri Chinmoy) before but I highly recommend it to those here. Here's 
a passage I just read: 
"Though we were frequently labeled Moonies, Hare Krishnas and the Kool-aid 
group of Jim Jones, we found it a personal affront, swearing that those 
oddballs had nothing in common with us; we were on a spiritual path, and those 
others, according to Guru, were just crazy cults."

Sound familiar? The need to feel like you're riding the extra special super bus 
is a deep one.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "On The Program" and "Off The Program"

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > Good discussion! You reminded me of my own Ice Cream
> > Caper. In Arosa I once got in hot water when it became
> > known that I had been going into a small cafe to buy a
> > "Coup Denmark" (Hot fudge Sunday) once a week. I'm
> > serious! I had mentioned to someone how great it tasted
> > and the next thing I knew I was being questioned about
> > my sin. It totally stressed me out for a while but then
> > a little thought startedI'm in trouble for eating
> > ice cream. As I think back this may have been the first
> > chink in the cult armor.
> 
> Barry's gotten a lot of mileage out of this story,
> Geeze. He's told it twice here and several more times
> on alt.m.t.
> 
> Anyway, here's one of his FFL versions (post #57195).
> It's a little more colorful than yours; I thought
> you'd enjoy reading it:
> 
> -
> *Anything* is permissible to "defend* [the "purity of
> the teaching"], including acts that are illegal (such
> as dismissing a student from a university for "wrong
> thought" or sending someone home from a course with
> no refund for violating a simple (and simple-minded)
> rule like, "Thou shalt go straight to the kitchen
> after evening lecture and have thy warm milk with
> cardamon and then go straight to bed and thou shalt 
> do all of this in silence."
> 
> I had a good friend who has a hilarious way of describ-
> ing the epiphany of figuring all of this stuff out.
> He was on an ATR course in Switzerland, and was told
> in no uncertain terms to follow the above "rule." The
> trouble was, he *hated* warm milk and cardamon. So
> his routine was to walk across the street to the next
> hotel and buy an ice-cream cone, and take it back to
> his room, all in silence.
> 
> He was called on the carpet for this by the course
> leaders several times. He ignored them. Finally, he
> was told in no uncertain terms to show up at a certain
> time for a "tribunal" (yes, they really called it that),
> in which he was to be interrogated, and at the end of
> which he was either going to be sent home in disgrace,
> never to be allowed to return to another TM course
> again, or repent of his evil ways, change his behavior,
> and be allowed to stay.
> 
> So he's sitting in this waiting room, waiting, and he's
> scared. Really scared. His entire life is on the line.
> He *knows*, from experience, what happens to TM teachers
> who have been declared "off the program." He *knows*
> that his entire access to advanced techniques or any
> future teachings from Maharishi is on the line. So he's
> *justifiably* scared.
> 
> And then it hits him, in a blinding flash of realization,
> that he's sitting there quivering in his seat, about to
> be judged by his betters for the dastardly crime of Eating
> Ice Cream.
> 
> He starts to laugh. They call him into the room. He can't
> stop laughing. He answers none of their questions, because
> he just can't stop laughing. He finally gets up and leaves
> the room, and the Inquisitors are so dumbfounded by some-
> one not being afraid of them that they don't do *anything*
> about it. He hears not another word about it.
> 
> He goes back home at the end of his ATR course, and naturally
> the next time he applies for another course he is barred
> from attending it. But by this time he really doesn't care,
> because he's still laughing.
> -
> 
> I had always wondered, frankly, whether what you got
> in trouble for wasn't so much eating ice cream but 
> for leaving the hotel every night, but you say you did
> it only once a week and don't say whether it was at
> night, so maybe not.
>

In my own case this would be on Sat afternoons when we had some free time to, 
uh, "walk and talk". Ice cream was kind of a big deal since we only had desert 
once in a while on these courses. Remember, we were in an environment where the 
tiniest move away from complete conformity could get you busted, whether it was 
having an ice cream or buying a copy of the International Herald Tribune to 
devour the latest Watergate news. (Got written up for that too btw. Man, was I 
ever an outlaw!)

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
wrote:
>
> > > Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the 
> > > state of Willy Tex's mental health?
> > >
> Judy wrote:
> > He's pretty strange,
> >
> You've been posting on the internet for what,
> fifteen years or more, and I'm the strange one?
> 
> Maybe so - some people just feel better when 
> they have someone to talk to, I guess.
> 
> For the record, I am still on the TMO list -
> I get things in the mail all the time. I'm
> living about a mile from the Maharishi Golden
> Dome of Pure Knowledge at Radiance, Texas - I 
> am a TMer and a Citizen Sidha in good standing. 
> 
> Still on the program after all these years - 
> TMer number 214 in the U.S.A., according to 
> Beaulah Smith. That's me, the one with the
> silly grin on his face:
> 
And a fine representative of the benefits of 40 years of TM/TMO you are! 
Perhaps you can speak for the DLF in its quest to get TM into schools. "Kids, 
wanna be like me? Sign here."

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
wrote:
>
> > > Now I've Got You, You Son of a
> > > Bitch?
> > >
> geezerfreak wrote:
> > See, "I am the eternal" (man, why 
> > didn't you just go all the way and 
> > call yourself GOD) the thing is, 
> > WillyTex really IS nuts. 
> >
> You're still living in a trailer house
> in Fairfield, IA; trying to get into 
> the women's dome; posting incessantly 
> on the internet to an anti-TM news 
> group, to a guy named "boo" and another
> named "God", but I'm "nuts"?
> 
> > This is not just my opinion, by the 
> > way.
> > 
> But, why isn't your name on the TMO 
> mailing list? You seem to be really 
> interested in the TMers and their 
> comings and goings. Just askin'.
> 
> > Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak 
> > up on the state of Willy Tex's mental 
> > health?
> >
> Run to Mommy, run - see a geezer run.
>
OK, I give up Tex. Ya got me. I'm not a TM teacher, Governor, Siddha or any of 
it. I don't even do TM. I'm an operative for the CIA, hired 35 years ago to 
infiltrate the TMO and report back to the Supreme Council of Intelligence on 
its activities around the world.

It was all going so well until you had to come along and blow my cover! 

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Ruth

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > I had to do some fast talking to, for instance,
> > get approved to become a teacher of special
> > techniques.
> 
> Did you by any chance teach a weekend special
> techniques course at Livingston Manor in 1976? Are
> you a big tallish guy with dark hair?
>

Not me, sorry.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "On The Program" and "Off The Program"

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> We all know these phrases. Most of us *lived* by the
> phrase "On The Program" (presented in gold here
> to emphasize its goodness) or its converse "Off The
> Program" (presented in red here for obvious reasons)
> for years if not decades. But what are the actual
> DEFINITIONS of these buzzphrases?
> 
> My definitions of these two phrases, based on my
> many years in the TM movement and several years of
> following its activities out of curiosity since,
> have to be:
> 
> On The Program -- Doing what Maharishi says to do.
> 
> Off The Program -- Doing anything contrary to what
> Maharishi says to do.
> 
> It's really as simple as that in my opinion.
> 
> There is, after all, nowhere one can go to obtain
> a "formal" definition of what "On The Program"
> means. It's not written down in any Human Resources
> manual that contains the rules imposed on teachers
> of TM and/or mere practitioners of the TM technique.
> 
> Some (those who have written about cults) would say
> that this "lack of definition" is intentional. They
> would say that having a *vague* definition by which
> everyone in the organization is judged and measured
> by is almost *by definition* a cult phenomenon. For
> one reason, it keeps the cult out of legal trouble; if they
> had actually written down rules that violated state or
> national law, they would be in Deep Shit legally.
> But on another level, keeping the definition of the
> phrase by which all members of the organization are
> judged *vague* has another purpose in that it creates
> an atmosphere of fear. The real *purpose* of keeping
> the definition vague and ever-changing is to keep
> the members of the organization ever-fearful that they
> might do something wrong, and be punished for it.
> 
> And, let's face it, you CAN be punished for being "Off
> The Program" in the TM movement. Thousands have
> been so punished. They have been denied access to TM
> centers and TM courses, they have been "banned from
> the domes," they have been subjected to "shunning" by
> their fellow TMers, and they have been subjected to
> harassment and vitriolic attacks *for* violating this
> "rule" that *has never once been written down*.
> 
> So let's write it down.
> 
> What are some of the things that, in your experience,
> have been deemed "Off The Program" by people in the
> TM movement who *had the authority to punish you for
> doing them*? Here are some of the ones I've witnessed
> or heard of that led to threatened or actual punishment:
> 
> * Living with one's girlfriend or boyfriend when you
> are not married.
> 
> * Having "Off The Program" books on your book-
> shelves. I saw at least a dozen people in LA denied
> access to residence courses or TTC because of this
> and the previous "sin."
> 
> * Expressing doubts about one of Maharishi's "proc-
> lamations." I once saw someone sent home from an
> ATR course because he questioned publicly that the
> "Age Of Enlightenment" had actually come to pass.
> 
> * Leaving the hotel on an ATR course to go across
> the street and buy an ice cream cone and eat it. We
> have someone on this forum who was threatened
> over this one.
> 
> * Doing anything on a TMO-sponsored residence course
> that was not 100% dictated to them by the course leaders,
> on orders of Maharishi. I saw several people threatened
> with being sent home from courses for talking during
> what was supposed to be a silent "walk and talk." I saw
> one person threatened with being sent home from a
> course for leaving the hotel and going into town to buy
> medicine at a pharmacy.
> 
> * Attending a public talk by another spiritual teacher.
> That will *still* get you banned from the dome in Fair-
> field if you admit it, as I understand.
> 
> * Wearing jeans. When I was a State Coordinator, I ran
> into several TM Centers who had banned TM Teachers
> from ever setting foot inside the Center again because
> they were spotted in public wearing jeans.
> 
> * Saying something in a TM advanced lecture that the
> teacher had heard from Charlie Lutes, and which was not
> part of the standard TM dogma. The list of former TM
> Teachers banned from the TM movement in the 70s for
> doing this is probably longer than the current list
> of "recertified" TM Teachers.
> 
> Add your own "working definitions" of what "Off The
> Program" has meant in your TM movement experience.
> If you feel like it, add some definitions of what "On The
> Program" means as well. And if you choose to do the
> latter, please try to make a case for it meaning anything
> *except* "Doing what Maharishi says to do."
>
Good discussion! You reminded me of my own Ice Cream Caper. In Arosa I once got 
in hot water when it became known that I had been going into a small cafe to 
buy a "Coup Denmark" (Hot fudge Sunday) once a week. I'm serious! I had 
mentioned to someone how great it tasted and the next thing I knew I was being 
questioned about my sin. It totally st

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives"  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" 
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > raunchy wrote:
> > > > > > > > I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > geezerfreak wrote:
> > > > > > > > That's rich Raunch...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal
> > > > > > > Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I
> > > > > > > didn't see your name on the list of
> > > > > > > TMO Teachers the last time I was in
> > > > > > > Fairfield. Just askin'.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine 
> > > > > > yourself seeing in ffld willy.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > please tell us more about it.  where is it located and who showed 
> > > > > > it to you. when?  in fact i dare you to make one factual statement 
> > > > > > about how the capital operates there.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously 
> > > > > > know nothing about
> > > > > >
> > > > > You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about 
> > > > > "the list".
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield 
> > > > capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have 
> > > > access to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges 
> > > > sure do. Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome 
> > > > badges or worked in the course office approving applications. Most of 
> > > > the folks doing that have always been women. 
> > > > 
> > > > When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal 
> > > > and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and 
> > > > the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An 
> > > > unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed 
> > > > location (probably Livingston Manor) from the "Council of Supreme 
> > > > Intelligence" had the list. They seemed to know all about the 
> > > > applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was 
> > > > Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. How 
> > > > about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what 
> > > > kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on 
> > > > the phone all those many years ago.
> > > >
> > > You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like 
> > > "vedic atom" were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid 
> > > announcing that they were now part of a "vedic atom?") "The Council of 
> > > Supreme Intelligence". So 50's SciFi! 
> > > 
> > > So what years were you there? Is that facility still there?
> > >
> 
> Last I heard Yogananda's group bought it. As you know they were right next 
> door to PAC Pal. It was a beautiful place. There was a view of a windmill 
> next to a small lake. I took a picture of it and when I got home I managed to 
> create a fairly nice looking painting of it. My Mom still has the painting 
> hanging in one of her bedrooms.
>
Indeed it was beautiful. I used to walk over there on Sundays to hear Dennis 
Weaver speak. (I of course had to keep this very quiet.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" 
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > raunchy wrote:
> > > > > > > I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > geezerfreak wrote:
> > > > > > > That's rich Raunch...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal
> > > > > > Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I
> > > > > > didn't see your name on the list of
> > > > > > TMO Teachers the last time I was in
> > > > > > Fairfield. Just askin'.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine 
> > > > > yourself seeing in ffld willy.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > please tell us more about it.  where is it located and who showed it 
> > > > > to you. when?  in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about 
> > > > > how the capital operates there.
> > > > > 
> > > > > wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously 
> > > > > know nothing about
> > > > >
> > > > You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about "the 
> > > > list".
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield 
> > > capitol whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access 
> > > to the list, but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. 
> > > Willytex wouldn't have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or 
> > > worked in the course office approving applications. Most of the folks 
> > > doing that have always been women. 
> > > 
> > > When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal 
> > > and processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and 
> > > the course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An 
> > > unidentified male voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location 
> > > (probably Livingston Manor) from the "Council of Supreme Intelligence" 
> > > had the list. They seemed to know all about the applicants I processed so 
> > > I assumed they had a list. Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back 
> > > then and I didn't even know it. How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent 
> > > cookies to? If you tell me what kind they were, I'll believe it was 
> > > really you that I flirted with on the phone all those many years ago.
> > >
> > You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like 
> > "vedic atom" were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid 
> > announcing that they were now part of a "vedic atom?") "The Council of 
> > Supreme Intelligence". So 50's SciFi! 
> > 
> > So what years were you there? Is that facility still there?
> >
> 
> The Vedic Atom went to PAC Pal from Fairfield in late summer of 1980. We were 
> there just about 2 months until Maharishi invited us to join him in India. We 
> arrived in India in November just in time for Diwali. The Atom returned to 
> PAC Pal the following March. We were there another two months, then we 
> shipped out to Palo Alto. I made a commitment to stay with the Atom and stay 
> I did, until the Fall of 1981. A whole year. It was the most ego bruising 
> experience of my life. It was a combination of being in the military and 
> being married to ten people at the same time. The dictum was, "Agree on 
> everything." I gave it my all and it wasn't easy. Everything I felt or 
> experienced with my senses as "reality" everything I thought was urgently 
> important, turned out to be not important at all. The Atom ground my ego into 
> toasty-o's. I had nothing left of "me" to hang on to. Resistance was futile. 
> I had to go with the flow, surrender my small self and shred every remnant of 
> ego or risk a battle with other egos equally attached to their reality. In a 
> word, it was a lesson in detachment. It was challenging but I don't regret 
> it. It just gives me some insight about how fiercely people are willing to 
> defend their self-importance and hopefully I've gained some wisdom about 
> picking my battles as well.
>
I'm sure others have responded by now (I'm just logging on today) but I have to 
say this strikes more as an exercise in classic cult behavior ("the dictum was 
agree on everything")
than a lesson in detachment. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > raunchy wrote:
> > > > > I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... 
> > > > > 
> > > > geezerfreak wrote:
> > > > > That's rich Raunch...
> > > > >
> > > > So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal
> > > > Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I
> > > > didn't see your name on the list of
> > > > TMO Teachers the last time I was in
> > > > Fairfield. Just askin'.
> > > >
> > > Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself 
> > > seeing in ffld willy.  
> > > 
> > > please tell us more about it.  where is it located and who showed it to 
> > > you. when?  in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how 
> > > the capital operates there.
> > > 
> > > wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know 
> > > nothing about
> > >
> > You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about "the 
> > list".
> >
> 
> Of course there is a list. For years, I've seen it at the Fairfield capitol 
> whenever I had to get my dome badge updated. I don't have access to the list, 
> but the folks putting the stickers of the badges sure do. Willytex wouldn't 
> have access to a list unless he renewed dome badges or worked in the course 
> office approving applications. Most of the folks doing that have always been 
> women. 
> 
> When I was on the Vedic Atom, I worked in the course office at PAC Pal and 
> processed tons of applications for LA Sidhas applying for WPA's and the 
> course in India with Maharishi. We did not have a list. An unidentified male 
> voice on the phone calling from an undisclosed location (probably Livingston 
> Manor) from the "Council of Supreme Intelligence" had the list. They seemed 
> to know all about the applicants I processed so I assumed they had a list. 
> Maybe it was Willeytex I was talking to back then and I didn't even know it. 
> How about it Willeytex, was it you I sent cookies to? If you tell me what 
> kind they were, I'll believe it was really you that I flirted with on the 
> phone all those many years ago.
>
You worked at Pac Pal? So did I, but that was right before terms like "vedic 
atom" were being used. (How many parents got calls from their kid announcing 
that they were now part of a "vedic atom?") "The Council of Supreme 
Intelligence". So 50's SciFi! 

So what years were you there? Is that facility still there? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Ruth

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of geezerfreak
> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 11:01 PM
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: For Ruth
>  
> Sister Raunchcan I ask you something? Do you think that there is a
> possibility that your faith in Maharishi and in the "rightness" of his
> movement, might be a mistake? In other words, can you consider the
> possibility (just the possibility) that what you believe with all of your
> heart, about Maharishi and his movement, could be completely wrong?
> 
> Is it possible?
> 
> As I've already stated, when I made the decision to leave the TMO, I did so
> knowing that I could be completely wrong, that I may have made the biggest
> mistake of my life. Now...in the nearly 30 years that have followed,
> everything I experience tells me otherwise.
> 
> But to this day, I really don't know! I like going with my instincts, I
> really do. I like knowing that I could be wrong. I like the not knowing!
> 
> Sorry for the diversion and back to my question to you. Is it possible?
> Geez, why does your decision have to have been completely right or
> completely wrong? The Movement always has been a mixed bag, as have we. Both
> it and we have good and bad qualities. You have a great career which you
> wouldn't have had if you had remained full time in the movement. Most people
> who remained full time have little to show for it, either in terms of any
> great spiritual advantage, and certainly not materially. One scenario might
> have been to have distanced yourself, but occasionally attended courses, but
> you could probably do that now.
>
Rick, I'm speaking of the belief system. If you go over a certain line in 
discarding the belief system of the TMO you are considered "off the program". I 
had some dicey run ins back in the day when it became known that I "read books" 
meaning books involving Indian and hindu philosophy that were not movement 
approved. I had to do some fast talking to, for instance, get approved to 
become a teacher of special techniques.

I haven't the slightest desire to attend courses at this time. I lived year 
after year going to the next "big course". The joy of discarding that whole way 
of thinking was, for me, in letting go of the idea that I had to have my foot 
on some kind of spiritual gas pedal, the whole idea of a "go faster" way.

But, I get your point. I don't find anything odd about remaining fascinated 
with that period of my life where I dove in 100% to another reality. I don't 
regret any of it. (OK, I probably could have shaved a few years off and gotten 
what I needed to get out of it.) 

>From time to time I enjoy participating at FFL. I remain fascinated by those 
>who, after all of these years of growing and obvious TMO dysfunction, still 
>believe, heart and soul. I realize that I come across at times as mocking or 
>condescending. Mostly I'm just playing to tell you the truth. As I've been 
>writing today, I can't truly look down on anyone who remains hard core into it 
>all. I was as TB as anyone (maybe with a twist). My instincts and the way life 
>has gone tell me that the decision I made to leave the TMO was a good one. 

ButI could be completely full of shit. Part of the joy comes from knowing 
and accepting that. The question that Barry asked today...can the TB'ers here 
entertain the concept that they MIGHT be wrong about all of this...it gets to 
the core of why I check in here. There's no right or wrong but every once in a 
while someone here has a personal discovery or something to share that keeps me 
coming back

You created quite a joint here Rick!

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Ruth

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity 
> wrote:
> >
> For example, I have been told that my system is not "subtle" enough to
> feel the effects of various things like east facing homes, gemstones,
> and various supplements.  It isn't subtle because I do not meditate
> regularly.
> 
> 
> Well, that makes two of us. I live in an east facing home with south
> facing toilets and I can't say whether or not I feel a positive
> influence on either consciousness or BMs. Same goes for gemstones. Since
> I can't prove a benefit one way or another, I guess east facing
> homes and gemstones fall into the category of innocuous beliefs. No harm
> no foul.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not concerned I don't notice a difference.  So what? Will I
> feel "it" some day? I don't even know what the hell
> "it" is. "It" might be really cool or maybe ho-hum. In
> any case "it" is not something I think about.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel for you sister, I would be really pissed if someone judged my
> "level of consciousness" and said my "system wasn't
> subtle enough" for not noticing ooga booga. On the other hand, if
> someone said the same thing in jest, I would probably agree and laugh it
> off. It all depends on the intent behind the words and the person's
> respect for you. You may not feel the influence of a gemstone, but you
> will certainly feel someone's intention to make you feel small,
> inadequate or less than.  That's what it's all about, isn't
> it? Judgment. It's judgment with a mean-spirited edge, a sharp barb,
> a thrust of the knife turned for maximum pain. Who are these creepy
> people in your life anyway? Let me at `em. By the way, I remember
> Maharishi said we should not judge someone's level of consciousness
> by his or her actions. So the next time someone gives you grief, say,
> "Maharishi said…" Have some fun with them.
> 
> A couple of people have told me that they can, by directing their
> intention, influence others, even influence the outcome of a card game
> of all things.  And why not?  After all, if you believe meditating in a
> group lowered crime, why wouldn't your own attention give you an Ace in
> a game of cards? They make cognitive errors concerning "winning
> streaks," not understanding the nature of random distributions include
> winning streaks. Their losing streaks are explained away.
> >
> 
> 
> Random distribution is a good reason to stay away from casinos.
> Eventually, the house always wins. However, I believe that we do have an
> influence on others with our attention. For example, if I'm in a
> grump, I'm not fit for human company. The fumes of Hades radiate
> about me. If you dared to spend some time with me while I'm in a
> foul mood, believe me you would feel "it." Have you ever met
> someone and you instantly liked him or her? Of course, you have. Perhaps
> it's the "good vibe" of the person you're feeling and
> not anything they necessarily said or did that attracted you. Whether
> mojo, juju or voodoo, even though science can't measure "it"
> some folks claim they feel "it" and some claim they don't.
> In either case, such a claim is in the innocuous belief category.
> 
> > So, the problem for me is that I want to respect your belief.  After
> all, it cannot be disproved.
> 
> 
> Exactly, so why not leave it right there as a big question mark, holding
> in reserve the possibility that things unproven by science may be in the
> future and even if never proven we can still hold open the possibility a
> belief could be true. Until then it's an unsolved mystery.
> 
> But I have trouble respecting these kinds of beliefs.  Unsupported
> beliefs have caused all sorts of trouble in the world.  Animals, from
> bears to rhinos are killed and driven to near extinction because of
> magical beliefs in the properties of a body part. Women are subjected to
> a subservient role in many religions.   Criminals are convicted on
> eyewitness testimony in the face of contrary evidence because of the
> belief that what you see can't be wrong.  Some people would rather take
> an unproven supplement than take a blood pressure pill that has been
> used for years, studied extensively, and shown both safe and effective.
> >
> 
> I understand your concern. I agree that unfounded beliefs can be
> harmful. However, in all the years I have meditated, I cannot think of
> one thing about it that has caused me harm. If someone feels TM has
> caused him or her harm, that is his or her experience, not mine.
> Further, I would say such difficulties are the exception and may or may
> not have anything to do with TM.
> 
> > Separate and apart from your beliefs, I respect you Raunchy.  You have
> tried to take the high road more and more often here, as you have in
> this thread.   But I worry about this stuff.
> >
> 
> 
> Ruth, I've been saving a story for just the right occasion and I
> think this is a good a time as any to tell it:
> 
> 
> 
> In 1976, Katheri

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal  wrote:
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:51 PM, geezerfreak  wrote:
> >
> > Boo, in case it's not obvious this fella is nuttier than a fruitcake.
> Trying to dialog with him is useless. I do wonder thoughwas he always
> this way or was he damaged in um, some other way. I'll to have to ask Ned
> Wynn about it since I believe he knew Willy at one point back there
> 
> Why don't we just add to the homepage of FFL that the main purpose of the
> group is to sling nastygrams at each other?  That anyone who joins has
> nothing better to do with his/her time (and karma) than to call others nasty
> names and characterize them in the worse possible way?
> 
> Does anyone here have a concept of this thing called karma?  Now I am
> characterized as being a hateful, deranged individual, yet I try whenever
> possible to avoid conflict unless really pushed.  But all of these people
> here who are holier than I am somehow don't get Matt. 7:1.  Yet they tell
> each other how much more evolved they are than the others here.
> 
> In typical FFL fashion, a person who posted here that he wasn't happy with
> me couldn't take my reply that that's life and my feelings weren't hurt as
> an end of our exchange.  He had to use a private email to tear me a new
> asshole and tell me that I'd have to suffer living in my hate for the rest
> of my life.  Gosh.  I wasn't even told such things at Our Lady of The
> Inquisition Catholic School when I was growing up.  I replied back that I'm
> not suffering.  Life's a ball and it's getting better day by day.  I pointed
> out that the motive behind his email was *to vent his hate towards me*.  I'm
> sure he didn't get it, as he can only see people one way:  fitting into his
> expectations or not.  Yeah, that shows how far along on the path he is.
> 
> I forgave him.  That's how hateful I was toward him.
> 
> Would there actually be anything to post here if the main purpose of posting
> wasn't to engage in the Eric Berne game Now I've Got You, You Son of a
> Bitch?
>
See, "I am the eternal" (man, why didn't you just go all the way and call 
yourself GOD) the thing is, WillyTex really IS nuts. This is not just my 
opinion, by the way.

Let's ask Judy. Judy...want to speak up on the state of Willy Tex's mental 
health?

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
wrote:
>
> > > > So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal
> > > > Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I
> > > > didn't see your name on the list of
> > > > TMO Teachers the last time I was in
> > > > Fairfield. 
> > > >
> geezerfreak wrote:
> > > please tell us more about it.  
> > >
> So, geezer, were you not on the PAC Pal
> Vedic Atom. You've never been to India. 
> Your name is not on the list of TM teachers
> in good standing. There is no "geezerfreak"
> on the list.
> 
> What else do you want to know?
>
Not a thing Willy boy. 

Boo, in case it's not obvious this fella is nuttier than a fruitcake. Trying to 
dialog with him is useless. I do wonder thoughwas he always this way or was 
he damaged in um, some other way. I'll to have to ask Ned Wynn about it since I 
believe he knew Willy at one point back there

[FairfieldLife] Re: The GOP: divorced from reality - by Bill Maher

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> The Republican base is behaving like a guy who just got dumped by his wife
> 
> 
> "It's sad what's happened to the Republicans. They used to be 
> the party of the big tent; now they're the party of the sideshow attraction, 
> a socially awkward group of mostly white people who 
> speak a language only they understand."
> 
> 
> If conservatives don't want to be seen as bitter people who cling to their 
> guns and religion and anti-immigrant sentiments, they should stop being 
> bitter and clinging to their guns, religion and anti-immigrant sentiments.
> 
> It's been a week now, and I still don't know what those "tea bag" protests 
> were about. I saw signs protesting abortion, illegal immigrants, the bank 
> bailout and that gay guy who's going to win "American Idol." But it wasn't 
> tax day that made them crazy; it was election day. Because that's when 
> Republicans became what they fear most: a minority.
> 
> The conservative base is absolutely apoplectic because, because ... well, 
> nobody knows. They're mad as hell, and they're not going to take it anymore. 
> Even though they're not quite sure what "it" is. But they know they're fed up 
> with "it," and that "it" has got to stop.
> 
> Here are the big issues for normal people: the war, the economy, the 
> environment, mending fences with our enemies and allies, and the rule of law.
> 
> And here's the list of Republican obsessions since President Obama took 
> office: that his birth certificate is supposedly fake, he uses a teleprompter 
> too much, he bowed to a Saudi guy, Europeans like him, he gives inappropriate 
> gifts, his wife shamelessly flaunts her upper arms, and he shook hands with 
> Hugo Chavez and slipped him the nuclear launch codes.
> 
> Do these sound like the concerns of a healthy, vibrant political party?
> 
> It's sad what's happened to the Republicans. They used to be the party of the 
> big tent; now they're the party of the sideshow attraction, a socially 
> awkward group of mostly white people who speak a language only they 
> understand. Like Trekkies, but paranoid.
> 
> The GOP base is convinced that Obama is going to raise their taxes, which he 
> just lowered. But, you say, "Bill, that's just the fringe of the Republican 
> Party." No, it's not. The governor of Texas, Rick Perry, is not afraid to say 
> publicly that thinking out loud about Texas seceding from the Union is 
> appropriate considering that ... Obama wants to raise taxes 3% on 5% of the 
> people? I'm not sure exactly what Perry's independent nation would look like, 
> but I'm pretty sure it would be free of taxes and Planned Parenthood. And I 
> would have to totally rethink my position on a border fence.
> 
> I know. It's not about what Obama's done. It's what he's planning. But you 
> can't be sick and tired of something someone might do.
> 
> Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota recently said she fears that 
> Obama will build "reeducation" camps to indoctrinate young people. But Obama 
> hasn't made any moves toward taking anyone's guns, and with money as tight as 
> it is, the last thing the president wants to do is run a camp where he has to 
> shelter and feed a bunch of fat, angry white people.
> 
> Look, I get it, "real America." After an eight-year run of controlling the 
> White House, Congress and the Supreme Court, this latest election has you 
> feeling like a rejected husband. You've come home to find your things out on 
> the front lawn -- or at least more things than you usually keep out on the 
> front lawn. You're not ready to let go, but the country you love is moving 
> on. And now you want to call it a whore and key its car.
> 
> That's what you are, the bitter divorced guy whose country has left him -- 
> obsessing over it, haranguing it, blubbering one minute about how much you 
> love it and vowing the next that if you cannot have it, nobody will.
> 
> But it's been almost 100 days, and your country is not coming back to you. 
> She's found somebody new. And it's a black guy.
> 
> The healthy thing to do is to just get past it and learn to cherish the 
> memories. You'll always have New Orleans and Abu Ghraib.
> 
> And if today's conservatives are insulted by this, because they feel they're 
> better than the people who have the microphone in their party, then I say to 
> them what I would say to moderate Muslims: Denounce your radicals. To 
> paraphrase George W. Bush, either you're with them or you're embarrassed by 
> them.
> 
> The thing that you people out of power have to remember is that the people in 
> power are not secretly plotting against you. They don't need to. They already 
> beat you in public.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-maher24-2009apr24,0,927819.story?=niradgrules
>
Thanks Doc! Maher manages to hit the nail square on while being funny as hell.

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the 
> > > > > > reality of what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, 
> > > > > > putting a mental check mark of "cultwhipped" in the Raunch column. 
> > > > > > There's no reasoning with folk this far gone IMO but I give you 
> > > > > > huge credit for your amazing patience and ability to attempt reason 
> > > > > > when the chances of understanding are nil.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I wanna be like you when I grow up.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy.  She expresses the kind of 
> > > > > heart that I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in 
> > > > > her posts.  Plus without her willingness to write in detail about 
> > > > > movement beliefs I wouldn't have the opportunities to run my cynical 
> > > > > bastard routine!  And I love's my cynical bastard routine!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks for the CD plug brother.  I heading over to Florence for two 
> > > > > weeks starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the 
> > > > > insides of more churches than Italian jails!  A little Delta by the 
> > > > > Duomo!  
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Right, whether we choose cynicism or idealism, it is still a choice. 
> > > > It's interesting that cynicism is just as invested in crushing idealism 
> > > > as the idealist is in ignoring the hysteria underlying the cautions of 
> > > > the cynic.  "Ha Ha if you believe THAT, then you must think pigs can 
> > > > fly. Sister, you are in serious need of cult deprogramming." So 
> > > > certain, the cynic of his beliefs, so superior in his wisdom of 
> > > > caution, he never stops to think he might be to one in need of 
> > > > deprogramming.   
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > spot on- the cynics are not above the naivete of the idealist, just 180 
> > > degrees opposed. they have exactly same emotional attachment in being 
> > > rock solid in their assumptions, and desire to fix the outcome of the 
> > > object in question- in this case the practice of TM.
> > > 
> > > the cynic and the idealist (or 'TB' and 'anti-TB') are both attempting to 
> > > do the same thing, predict the future by eliminating ambiguity, and 
> > > resist change.
> > >
> > 2 people each with over 30 yrs experience practicing tm and working within 
> > the tmo or living in ffld have a discussion here about their 
> > disappointments and dislikes regarding their experiences with the tmo and 
> > immediately another person feels the fervent need to come into that 
> > discussion and label them "cynics" trying to crush all good and idealism in 
> > the world.  sorry, that is not a distinction between cynics and idealists, 
> > but just a fundamentalist getting pissed off that someone left their sect.
> > 
> > someone who pooh poohs tm because they think MMY laughs funny or because 
> > all meditation is flaky is a cynic, not someone sincerely discussing their 
> > 30 yrs experience. 
> > 
> > and someone who gets tired of fake idealistic talk and groupthink in favor 
> > of a more real path is still an idealist.
> >
> Curtis labeled himself as a cynic. I labeled myself as an idealist. In 
> between, we live in shades of gray. The cynic who insists the world is black 
> or white, does indeed live to crush idealism. There isn't any wiggle room in 
> their life for beauty, magic and surrender of the heart. It makes them feel 
> ill. If someone says they believe in unicorns, the cynic's blood boils with 
> excitement at the thought of packing the unicorn believer into a box and 
> sending them off to the trash compactor. 
> 
> Curtis is not a cynic who lives in a black and white world. He is an 
> idealistic cynic, a purist, a magnanimous spirit, confident enough in himself 
> to treat the unicorn believer with respect.  When it comes to Maharishi and I 
> wear my heart on my sleeve, I am well aware that I have made myself a target 
> for derision from cynics living in the world of black and white. Curtis 
> trusts his instincts, has a genuine interest in truthful self-inquiry and 
> courageous go-it-alone attitude about his spiritual path. I respect his 
> choice.  I choose differently.  Maharishi never failed or mislead me. I have 
> always felt confident in his direction. There is no right or wrong in any of 
> this. Curtis loves his spiritual path and I love mine.
>
I have no problem with that at all.

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > There is a fascination that I think we all have (those
> > who are now outside lookin' in that is) with folks who,
> > after all these years and all of the clear evidence in
> > front of them, still buy the basic party line. And I
> > don't mean this in a "petri dish" way. As I said before
> > I am acutely aware of the fact that I held same beliefs
> > for many years. And, the fact isshe could be right
> > about all of this and I could be dead wrong. But I long
> > ago made a decision to use my own noggin' to determine
> > my course of action and my belief system.
> 
> And you don't think she does too?? On what basis do
> you suggest that the only decision that shows one is
> using one's own noggin is the decision to *reject* TM?
> 
> We all make our best guess on the basis of our
> intellect and experience. We may have somewhat similar
> experiences of the externals, but we may interpret
> those experiences differently. Maybe we're right,
> maybe we're wrong. But to suggest only *one*
> interpretation is a function of using one's noggin
> makes no sense. You don't have any more of a lock on
> The Truth than the TMers do.
> 
> I don't "believe" much of anything; that's why I refer
> to my support of TM and its teachings as working
> hypotheses. As far as the Maharishi Effect and flying
> go, I won't go any further than that I can't rule them
> out. Somehow I don't think you'd be willing to say 
> even that much.

Judy, Judydid I say that MY decision to reject the TMO (btw, I don't reject 
TM, I still do it) was the only correct way for everyone? No. I said that this 
was my own decision about my own course of action. I then went on to say that 
Raunch could be completely right and I could be utterly wrong.

But you know that already and still you chose to LIE.  (Wait a minute...am I 
writing this or you? I get so confused.) 

[FairfieldLife] The Ultimate TB Test (was Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > >
> > > How 'bout it. It's a VERY simple question. Are
> > > you willing to agree with Geezerfreak's state-
> > > ment above, in the converse? Are you willing to 
> > > state categorically in public, "There is a 
> > > possibility that the TM critics here are right 
> > > and I am wrong?"
> > > 
> > > Any of the above-listed posters who fail to 
> > > answer are IMO pussies.
> > > 
> > > They can answer "Yes" or they can answer "No, 
> > > but failure to answer in this case can and IMO
> > > should be interpreted as a big, fat "No." And 
> > > IMO *that* should be interpreted as fundament-
> > > alism and the non-response of the "cultwhipped."
> > 
> > What's the criticism?
> > 
> > Judy and most other "TBers" on this forum agree with the
> > TM critics on certain points already. On others, they disagree
> > vehemently. SO, here's the converse question:
> > 
> > could it be that the TBers are right afterall?
> 
> You didn't answer, pussy.
> 
> When you answer my question with a "Yes"
> or "No" answer, then you have the right
> to pose a diversionary question of your
> own. Not until.
>
Gettin' mighty quiet in this here town Jeb.

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > raunchy wrote:
> > > I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom... 
> > > 
> > geezerfreak wrote:
> > > That's rich Raunch...
> > >
> > So, geezer, were you on the PAC Pal
> > Vedic Atom? Ever been to India? I
> > didn't see your name on the list of
> > TMO Teachers the last time I was in
> > Fairfield. Just askin'.
> >
> Very curious about this list of tmo teachers that you imagine yourself seeing 
> in ffld willy.  
> 
> please tell us more about it.  where is it located and who showed it to you. 
> when?  in fact i dare you to make one factual statement about how the capital 
> operates there.
> 
> wondering why you need to make stuff up about which you obviously know 
> nothing about
>
You beat me to the punch here boo. Yes, Tex, do tell us all about "the list".

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > Well put Curtis. Raunch's comments are so out of touch with the reality of 
> > what happened that I just throw my hands up and move on, putting a mental 
> > check mark of "cultwhipped" in the Raunch column. There's no reasoning with 
> > folk this far gone IMO but I give you huge credit for your amazing patience 
> > and ability to attempt reason when the chances of understanding are nil.
> > 
> > I wanna be like you when I grow up.
> 
> 
> No virtue here Geezer, I like Raunchy.  She expresses the kind of heart that 
> I relate to and seems to care about people's feelings in her posts.  Plus 
> without her willingness to write in detail about movement beliefs I wouldn't 
> have the opportunities to run my cynical bastard routine!  And I love's my 
> cynical bastard routine!
> 
> Thanks for the CD plug brother.  I heading over to Florence for two weeks 
> starting Tuesday to do a little busking and hopefully see the insides of more 
> churches than Italian jails!  A little Delta by the Duomo!  
> 

There is a fascination that I think we all have (those who are now outside 
lookin' in that is) with folks who, after all these years and all of the clear 
evidence in front of them, still buy the basic party line. And I don't mean 
this in a "petri dish" way. As I said before I am acutely aware of the fact 
that I held same beliefs for many years. And, the fact isshe could be right 
about all of this and I could be dead wrong. But I long ago made a decision to 
use my own noggin' to determine my course of action and my belief system. The 
incredible freedom I felt from removing the cloak of the MMY/TMO belief 
structure was.dare I say it.enlightening!

At Rick's suggestion I'm reading the book just out by an ex insider of Sri 
Chinmoy, "Cartwheels In A Sari". Highly recommended! You'll quickly see the 
many parallels with MMY and the TMO.

Back to Raunch. I don't dislike her, but I can't say I like her either. I'd 
have to hang with her to form more of an opinion. However, I can say that I'm 
glad that she's here. (Unlike Nabby who I honestly don't miss at all. His utter 
mean spiritedness was wearing.) 

Raunch was offended by the way I expressed myself but hey, she's plays rough 
too at times. If we hung out, we'd probably have a grand old time.

Have fun in Florence. Man...the food, the women, the whole nine yards of it! 
You're going to have a blast!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brazil Law and Brazil Love

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  
wrote:
>
> Judy wrote:
> > Note that of Barry's six posts so far this week,
> > five attack TMers (four attacking me specifically),
> > and the sixth attacks Edg.
> > 
> Yes, I've noted that Barry seems to be obsessed
> with posting from bars and brothels, and sometimes
> cheap patio cafes. But I wonder why Barry is so
> obsessed with you? I mean, he's already got his
> dog to talk to and his many younger girlfriends 
> to mess with. Barry was much more interesting to
> read when he was out shopping at flea markets in
> France. I'm not convinced that Barry made a good 
> move when he relocated to that poor village down 
> in Spain. I mean, don't they have a better quality
> of Red Light District up in Paris? Just askin'.
>

Ever been to that "poor little village down in Spain" Tex? Just askin'.

I have. It's the Spanish Riviera.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brazil Law and Brazil Love

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > For the record, this rant has nothing to do
> > with Shemp, merely with the person who once
> > cried "Death threat!" on FFL (and who still
> > does) trying to suggest that people should 
> > "know" when another poster is kidding.
> > 
> > And that provided me an opportunity to post 
> > one of the tidbits my attorney found from 
> > another of our august FFL members. Neither 
> > has anything to do with Shemp. As far as I
> > know, Shemp has never run an Internet porn 
> > site for the Gambino crime family.  :-)
> 
> I wonder if Barry's attorney is aware that his
> client is a vindictive, malicious liar.
>
And we're off and running with another week of hi-jinks and hilarity!

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > 
> >  > place.>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the 
> > ladies on that course.  He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. 
> > There was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we 
> > reacted to immediately. 
> > 
> 
> Not true. I wore saris because I was in India. I never heard that Maharishi 
> told anyone they HAD to wear a sari. The fact is, my western clothes were 
> totally out of place. Compared to saris they were ugly as hell. I gladly 
> traded my dark, monochromatic suit jackets, skits, blouses and heels for the 
> amazing Technicolor designs of silk saris. I felt quite feminine in them, 
> despite occasionally getting tangle foot. I thought it was really cool that a 
> neat little stack of six saris, an entire wardrobe, took up only one small 
> corner of my suitcase while my very bulky western clothes dominated the rest 
> of the space.   
> 
> > Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it.  
> > Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we 
> > ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India.
> > 
> 
> Yep. We were on the program, every minute of every day. That is what I signed 
> on for. I wasn't drafted into the military. I joined. We were loyal soldiers 
> on a mission of peace. No one held a gun to my head and told me to march. No 
> one fired a shot. No one slogged through mud and blood and we ate quite well, 
> Indian food of course. 
> 
> We were in India at a very crucial time in history. Fifty Americans held 
> captive in Iran. The era of détente ended. Soviet troops had invaded 
> Afghanistan; their military forces were within 300 miles of the Indian Ocean, 
> close to the Straits of Hormuz, a waterway for most of the world's oil. When 
> Carter made his state of the Union address, January 23, 1980 he said:
> 
> "The Soviet Union is now attempting to consolidate a strategic position, 
> therefore, that poses a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East 
> oil…We've increased and strengthened our naval presence in the Indian ocean, 
> and we are now making arrangements for key naval and air facilities to be 
> used by our forces in the region of northeast Africa and the Persian Gulf."
> 
> The Carter Doctrine: http://www.answers.com/topic/carter-doctrine 
> 
> As you may recall, Maharishi was extremely concerned about the news of 
> American ships blockading the Soviets in the Indian Ocean. Then one day, for 
> no apparent reason, he never said exactly why, Maharishi had us reforming 
> teams, make plans for travel visas, look at maps of India and plan how our 
> teams would travel around the Indian coastline, teaching TM, I guess. So for 
> a few days everyone went into hyper drive thinking about how they were going 
> to get their travel arrangements organized on such short notice. Then 
> nothing. Maharishi just dropped it. I felt like someone had just dumped me 
> out of bed in the middle of a nice nap, just for the hell of it. A few days 
> later, we got news the American ships had withdrawn the blockade. No one ever 
> made a direct statement that we might had had anything to do with it. But I 
> believe to this day that our attention on maps of India and thinking about 
> India's coastline intently, prevented a serious confrontation between the 
> Americans and the Soviets. 
> 
> > For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, 
> > to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and 
> > announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read.  I 
> > am reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but 
> > how willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let 
> > the world know what absolute control he had over our lives.
> > 
> 
> I didn't surrender to Maharishi's "control." I willingly embraced the 
> experience of being with him. No one forced me to do anything. I was there 
> because I loved him and felt I was doing what little I could for a noble 
> purpose, world peace.
> 
Uh-huh. You have the unmitigated hubris to believe that your "attention" to 
maps of India and thoughts of India's coastline caused American military ships 
to withdraw at the time.

The  "Maharishi Effect' in action right Raunch? See Curtis, this is why I don't 
attempt much in the way of dialog with folks like this. I may as well be 
talking to my pet gold fish. At the same time, I do feel genuine compassion.

You know whenever something rolls on the tube showing Christian evangelicals 
speaking in tongues or going nuts in various ways... I watch, but I don't 
laugh. I can't because I've been there. I know what it is to be so 

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> 
>  place.>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you wore a sari was because of his expressed desire to the ladies 
> on that course.  He shaped every nuance of our lives on that course. There 
> was no aspect of our lives that that he didn't comment on, and we reacted to 
> immediately. 
> 
> Maharishi not only asked us to fit into Indian culture, he required it.  
> Every single thing he wanted was carried out by all of us down to what we 
> ate, what we wore, what we did every second of every day in India.
> 
> For you to say he never asked anyone to fit into his culture as an insider, 
> to a bunch of us who were there living and dying by every statement and 
> announcement from the guy each day of that course is shocking to read.  I am 
> reminded not only about what a complete control freak the guy was, but how 
> willing we are were to fall on our own sword for him rather than let the 
> world know what absolute control he had over our lives.
> 
> 
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife 
> > > > who thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. 
> > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it
> > > > > > is the only organization capable of teaching TM so
> > > > > > that it remains TM, a simple mental technique,
> > > > > > rather than some watered down version that loses its
> > > > > > effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world
> > > > > > was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is
> > > > > > secure enough to endure leadership foibles and
> > > > > > growing pains just as it always has. It will always
> > > > > > have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off
> > > > > > the reservation who will teach, who knows what.
> > > > > > Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that
> > > > > > can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity
> > > > > > or at least for a very long time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > The argument can certainly be made that the TMO
> > > > > shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization,
> > > > > but that's how its founder saw it from the very
> > > > > beginning, and there isn't really anything that
> > > > > can be done about it now; it isn't going to change
> > > > > in that regard.
> > > > 
> > > > I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic 
> > > > organization. Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. But, 
> > > > no. In the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt 
> > > > hippies on TTC who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, 
> > > > if he hoped to hone their ability to teach with any requisite 
> > > > precision. Undoubtedly, discipline and routine will evoke rigidity and 
> > > > extremism in extremist personalities, (usually Fascists or Communists) 
> > > > but so what. Organizations must remain organized or disband. <
> > > 
> > > Did you ever spend a lot of time around Maharishi, Raunch? I'm not asking 
> > > whether you were in the audience at TTC (come to think of it, were you 
> > > ever trained as a teacher?) or an SCI course or something.but did you 
> > > ever work closely with MMY?
> > > 
> > > I was always amused when I would get back in the states and hear 
> > > meditators complaining about TMO weirdness. It was always "if Maharishi 
> > > only knew what was going on, he would fix all of this!" I'd chuckle and 
> > >

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife 
> > > who thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. 
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it
> > > > > is the only organization capable of teaching TM so
> > > > > that it remains TM, a simple mental technique,
> > > > > rather than some watered down version that loses its
> > > > > effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world
> > > > > was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is
> > > > > secure enough to endure leadership foibles and
> > > > > growing pains just as it always has. It will always
> > > > > have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off
> > > > > the reservation who will teach, who knows what.
> > > > > Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that
> > > > > can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity
> > > > > or at least for a very long time.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > The argument can certainly be made that the TMO
> > > > shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization,
> > > > but that's how its founder saw it from the very
> > > > beginning, and there isn't really anything that
> > > > can be done about it now; it isn't going to change
> > > > in that regard.
> > > 
> > > I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic 
> > > organization. Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. But, no. 
> > > In the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt hippies on 
> > > TTC who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, if he hoped 
> > > to hone their ability to teach with any requisite precision. Undoubtedly, 
> > > discipline and routine will evoke rigidity and extremism in extremist 
> > > personalities, (usually Fascists or Communists) but so what. 
> > > Organizations must remain organized or disband. <
> > 
> > Did you ever spend a lot of time around Maharishi, Raunch? I'm not asking 
> > whether you were in the audience at TTC (come to think of it, were you ever 
> > trained as a teacher?) or an SCI course or something.but did you ever 
> > work closely with MMY?
> > 
> > I was always amused when I would get back in the states and hear meditators 
> > complaining about TMO weirdness. It was always "if Maharishi only knew what 
> > was going on, he would fix all of this!" I'd chuckle and be a good little 
> > soldier and keep my mouth shut but the truth, as Rick or Barry or basically 
> > anyone here who ever worked with MMY knows, is that Maharishi was in on 
> > EVERYTHING that went down. He was the ultimate control freak. 
> > 
> > So you can blame "extremism" on extremist personalities but you better 
> > include Maharishi as the MOST extreme since he was basically at the heart 
> > of everything that went on.
> > 
> > The rajasthe ridiculous costumes, every bit of weirdness emanating out 
> > of Vlodrop for years was not the work of a few extreme personalities. It 
> > was the work of one extreme personality. The underlings just execute the 
> > will of the master.
> > 
> > Maharishi as the leader and full architect of a crusading, messianic 
> > organization? You better believe it!
> >
> 
> Just as Judy says, this point is arguable. I was on the PAC Pal Vedic Atom. 
> We spent four months with Maharishi in India 1980-81 and saw him just about 
> every day, morning and evening. Images and events about that experience 
> remain clearly engraved in memory. Talk about culture shock. India...there is 
> no place like it on earth, so strange and beautiful. Straight away, I felt 
> out of place wearing western clothes. I bought a bunch of saris and that is 
> all I wore, and still 

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > Post of the month, maybe of the year. Comment below.
> > 
> 
> Thanks. You are probably the only one arising from the rabble of FFLife who 
> thinks so. But I'll take the compliment. 
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog"  wrote:
> > >
> > > TM cannot exist without the TMO. Warts and all, it
> > > is the only organization capable of teaching TM so
> > > that it remains TM, a simple mental technique,
> > > rather than some watered down version that loses its
> > > effectiveness. Maharishi's great gift to the world
> > > was a systematic way to allow the mind to transcend. 
> > > 
> > > IMO the foundation of Maharishi's worldwide TMO is
> > > secure enough to endure leadership foibles and
> > > growing pains just as it always has. It will always
> > > have detractors, saints, dummies and TM teachers off
> > > the reservation who will teach, who knows what.
> > > Regardless, the TMO is the only reliable glue that
> > > can hold the teaching of TM together in perpetuity
> > > or at least for a very long time.
> > 
> > 
> > The argument can certainly be made that the TMO
> > shouldn't be a crusading, messianic organization,
> > but that's how its founder saw it from the very
> > beginning, and there isn't really anything that
> > can be done about it now; it isn't going to change
> > in that regard.
> 
> I don't believe Maharishi thought of the TMO as a crusading, messianic 
> organization. Certainly, these are loaded words meant to malign. But, no. In 
> the early days, it was more like, he had a bunch of unkempt hippies on TTC 
> who needed direction, structure, discipline and routine, if he hoped to hone 
> their ability to teach with any requisite precision. Undoubtedly, discipline 
> and routine will evoke rigidity and extremism in extremist personalities, 
> (usually Fascists or Communists) but so what. Organizations must remain 
> organized or disband. <

Did you ever spend a lot of time around Maharishi, Raunch? I'm not asking 
whether you were in the audience at TTC (come to think of it, were you ever 
trained as a teacher?) or an SCI course or something.but did you ever work 
closely with MMY?

I was always amused when I would get back in the states and hear meditators 
complaining about TMO weirdness. It was always "if Maharishi only knew what was 
going on, he would fix all of this!" I'd chuckle and be a good little soldier 
and keep my mouth shut but the truth, as Rick or Barry or basically anyone here 
who ever worked with MMY knows, is that Maharishi was in on EVERYTHING that 
went down. He was the ultimate control freak. 

So you can blame "extremism" on extremist personalities but you better include 
Maharishi as the MOST extreme since he was basically at the heart of everything 
that went on.

The rajasthe ridiculous costumes, every bit of weirdness emanating out of 
Vlodrop for years was not the work of a few extreme personalities. It was the 
work of one extreme personality. The underlings just execute the will of the 
master.

Maharishi as the leader and full architect of a crusading, messianic 
organization? You better believe it!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Speaking of transcendence...

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> Sister Rosetta Tharpe, recommended by Bob Dylan (she'll
> "blow your mind"):
> 
> Up Above My Head
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNq8DejQRN8&feature=related
> 
> Down by the Riverside
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xzr_GBa8qk
> 
> Didn't It Rain
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7lN1R2LP-4&feature=related
> 
> Yow. Instant fan here.
>
Indeed she is. Thanks for bringing her up. Sister Rosetta is a national 
treasure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brazil Law and Brazil Love

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, I am the eternal  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > On Apr 24, 2009, at 3:17 PM, satvadude108 wrote:
> >
> > Do you get the feeling that every once in a while
> > various people here go off their meds, the results
> > being these disturbed-sounding rants?
> >
> >  Sal
> >
> >
> Both of you, Barry, Marek and Edward can kiss my ass.  I do not need or
> welcome a diagnosis from any of you.  If I want one I can call up one of my
> shrink friends and ask them for one.  It was Barry's Marek's and Edward's
> "diagnosis" and characterization of me that pissed me off at them and keeps
> me pissed off at them.  I don't appreciate being slammed by people,
> including in the current posts I'm replying to.
> 
> Regarding prior activities in FFL, if you took the time to look, you would
> have seen that the actions then were the result of yet more being
> "characterized", once again as a racist.  I believe the words were about the
> destruction of New Orleans, specifically the French Quarter.  Well guess
> what?  I'm still looking forward to a storm destroying New Orleans and
> specifically the French Quarter.  And yes, I'm one of the people hoping
> Yahoo will delete FFL.  Blow it away and maybe there might just be a bit of
> dignity and politeness to replace it.
> 
> It is one thing for me to say I'm a racist, if indeed I did.  But it's yet
> another for me to be slammed.  Nobody, not even Nabby, has had to take such
> abuse here as I've had to over the years.  Now think about that, Enlightened
> Ones.

Hey, what about me? I think you're an asshole and a racist too. Why are you 
leaving me off of your special list?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Brazil Law and Brazil Love

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  wrote:
> >
> > Louis,
> > 
> > Just so you know:
> > 
> > do.rflex is a former TM teacher, now a Mormon, named John Manning who lives 
> > in rural Utah.  I think his wife may have some Brazilian ancestry but John 
> > himself has never stepped inside of Brazil.
> 
> 
> Amazing lies from Shemp.
> 
> As many of the other posters here know, I have lived in Rio de Janeiro, 
> Brazil for the last 8 years. 
> 
> My Brazilian lawyer wife specializes in family law. And I have never been a 
> Mormon - as Shemp already knows.
> 
> 
> 
> > Of course, you have to understand (and have much compassion) for the fact 
> > that Mr. Manning is mentally challenged.  He actually believes and 
> > represents himself to be currently living in Brazil.  
> > 
> > This of course is nonsense (but what else would you expect from a retired 
> > postal worker?  You know what they say about "going postal").
> > 
> > May I suggest that it is best to humour Mr. Manning (or do.rflex as he 
> > calls himself) and play along with him.  When he insists to you that he 
> > lives in Brazil, please agree with him.  Indeed, tell him that you will be 
> > happy to meet with him the next time you're in Sao Paolo or wherever it is 
> > that his psychosis will tell you he lives.
> 
> 
> I see you've come out a bigger asshole than ever, Magoo, after the desperate 
> critical state of depression you cried like a baby to this group about 
> recently. Congratulations. 
> 
> That you would attack me like you just have after I actually offered you 
> comforting words at that time, is no surprise from a guy like you.
>
Wow.what's going on here guys? I admit to not keeping up on every nook and 
cranny of FFL, but I've greatly enjoyed posts by both of you in the past.

Where did all of this animosity start?  Shemp, are you sure you have the right 
guy here?

We're all used to the Judy/Barry show but this one caught me by surprise. 
Again, I probably missed something along the way, but there must have been a 
catalyst for the current state of acrimony.

Can either of you, or someone else clue me to what's going on here?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Aversion and Attachement

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan  wrote:
>
> > What an utter garbagedump FFL has turned into.
> >
> 
> Many in spiritual circles appear attached to the concept of non-attachment -- 
> but it appears to me (hardly a strong truth test) they are quite attached to 
> aversion.  
> 
> Just a few of today's posts I have skimmed and aversion seems to be 
> blossoming like spring -- deep (and almost trembling) aversion to americans, 
> strippers, enhanced breasts, people who are satisfied with TM, and on and on.
> 
> One thing I have found in exposure to real spiritual people (and the 
> categorization is my own, not an epistimologically pristine claim) is that 
> they are interested in everyone, everything and anything. Its like they start 
> each moment with a blank slate. Everything is new, to be explored. As a 
> friend told me once, "Maharishi could (and did) talk for 4 hours on which 
> floor tiles to choose." 
> 
> But enlightenment shalaitzament -- who cares. But a baseline of  total 
> acceptance, openness, a fresh look at everything, has some appeal to me when 
> I see it live, in action. 
> 
> TM appears not to be a universal technique to enliven such qualities in 
> everyone. Perhaps it does in some. I see people who do TM , and other 
> methods, who have these non-attached, non-adverse, enthusiastic in each 
> moment for everything. But also see a lot of people highly adverse to lots of 
> things, and perhaps attached many things similtaneously, to "my program", my 
> diet, my so pure lifestyle, my method, my guru, etc. I am not sure, but I am 
> guessing St Peter doesn't open the gate to people with a  3' stick up their 
> butts. (and man, thats gotta hurt during yogic flying). 
> 
> If I were King Tony, I would round up all the so holy rajas and obsequious 
> hangers-on and take them to the best -- and also the diviest -- strip clubs 
> in Amsterdam. Show people how to see and enjoy the bliss in everything. Even 
> in silicone breasts. 
> 
> As Louis said, "Its a wonderful world". Some long term TMers seem too bitter 
> and adverse to enjoy much of it.
>
Bravo. Good advice.

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> > >
> > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:54 AM
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> 
> http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html
> 
> Emmanuel did very well. The fools in the audiance that reacted to his words 
> belongs to the generation of germans born after WWII, brainwashed by the 
> americans to believe that the german people are trash and altogether a very 
> dangerous people. These hillbillies took over all schools, threw out all 
> books and made new ones fitting for the americans and their ridicelous 
> capitalism (we see where that idea is going now) and even banned their 
> National Anthem !
> 
> Now the same "ubermensh", the utterly foolish americans, the white trash of 
> the West here on FFL try to humilate a true german ! 
> 
> What an utter garbagedump FFL has turned into.

Was your favorite part of Emmanuel's speech the part where he said it was 
"unfortunate" that Hitler didn't complete his work?

[FairfieldLife] Re: The wasted stench of ignorance

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> I'm out of FFL. It has become increasingly meaningless, perverse and negative 
> during the last few months; a collection of crackpots who call FFL their 
> home. 
> 
> Many enjoy to roll in filth; Rick Archer, the infamous rumourmonger, 
> desperatedly bent upon disrespect, who created FFL to have an outlet for his 
> perverse rumours about any Holy person whosoever. 
> Vaj, Curtis the Hillbilly, the Turq and Sal comes to mind. Not to mention the 
> new arrivals.
> 
> Why would sane people like Cardemaister, Judy, Marek, drpeter and others want 
> stay in this dump anymore ? Beats me.
> 
> Please continue to enjoy rolling around in your self-created, 
> white-trash-garbage. 
> 
> But if a thought arrives that a time for change has arrived: 
> Please have a checking !
> 
> Jai Guru Dev
> Nablusoss
>
Buh-bye now.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > 
> > > So when a spoof, a very well written one as this
> > > one was, comes along, ya know ANYTHING is possible.
> > > In my wildest dreams from back in the day (and I
> > > was there) I would never have believed it could all
> > > turn into the current madness. And I was quite used
> > > to a certain level of madness that anyone who was
> > > around MMY then experienced. (Hey, let's all get up
> > > for a 2am meeting!) 
> > > 
> > > You who think the spoof was so obvious, check your
> > > high and mightiness carefully and ask yourself if
> > > any average person off the street would think
> > > ANYTHING that goes on in Vlodrop or any of the
> > > Shrivastava/Varma centers in India is anything 
> > > other than off the rails cult-gone-wild behavior
> > > then friend, your own grasp on reality is shaky.
> > 
> > The person on the street is a non sequitur. Of
> > course they'd think it's all totally bonkers.
> > 
> > There are two things involved here.
> > 
> > One is the ability to recognize *any* spoof as 
> > a spoof. The most prolific spoofer on this forum
> > deals in crude, burlesque-type spoofs that are
> > instantly obvious as such. After being fed that
> > kind of spoof for a while, you're less likely
> > to recognize more subtle spoofs; your spoof
> > detector gets dulled because you've gotten used
> > to the crudity.
> > 
> > This one, in contrast, was quite subtle. But
> > there were still telltale signs that *should*
> > have clued you in.
> > 
> > And that's the second thing involved: the TM
> > critics here *want* to think the worst of the
> > TMO, so you're absurdly gullible, ready to
> > believe anything--as you acknowledge above--and
> > that willingness dulls your alertness to the
> > telltale signs as well. You're invested in its
> > *not* being a spoof; you want it to be real so
> > you can wallow in scorn and disgust.
> > 
> > Those of us who got that it was a spoof have a
> > more realistic view of the TMO (and perhaps a
> > more finely honed sense of humor as well). Not
> > that we don't see that the TMO has become
> > ridiculous--I certainly do--but that we have a
> > better sense of what's merely ridiculous and
> > what would go over the line into seriously
> > warped, like that rogue Mormon group. The TMO's
> > not *that* warped; you have to be warped
> > yourself to think it would go that far.
> > 
> > When I learned TM in the mid-'70s, I gave the 
> > TMO a bit of a whirl. It didn't take long for me
> > to decide it was sillier than I could tolerate. I
> > "ran away" while you were still crawling out of
> > bed for Maharishi at 2 in the morning.
> > 
> > So you might want to think about checking your 
> > own high-and-mightyness, pal.
> > 
> > Yes, you were young and foolish; I had the 
> > benefit of being older and more resistant to
> > nonsense. Maybe I'd have been better able to
> > tolerate it when I was your age and would've
> > gotten sucked in as you did. But, ya know, I'm
> > *still* older than you, and you're not looking a
> > whole lot less foolish to me now than the TMO
> > does. You've switched sides, but you're just as
> > heavily into nonsense. That's why you didn't 
> > recognize it as a spoof.
> > 
> > (That's 50 for me. See yez later.)
> >
> 
> This is all a bit rich coming from someone who thought
> Nablus was having us on.

Indeed. Hey, do I get a prize or something for getting her to post out this 
week?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > So when a spoof, a very well written one as this
> > one was, comes along, ya know ANYTHING is possible.
> > In my wildest dreams from back in the day (and I
> > was there) I would never have believed it could all
> > turn into the current madness. And I was quite used
> > to a certain level of madness that anyone who was
> > around MMY then experienced. (Hey, let's all get up
> > for a 2am meeting!) 
> > 
> > You who think the spoof was so obvious, check your
> > high and mightiness carefully and ask yourself if
> > any average person off the street would think
> > ANYTHING that goes on in Vlodrop or any of the
> > Shrivastava/Varma centers in India is anything 
> > other than off the rails cult-gone-wild behavior
> > then friend, your own grasp on reality is shaky.
> 
> The person on the street is a non sequitur. Of
> course they'd think it's all totally bonkers.
> 
> There are two things involved here.
> 
> One is the ability to recognize *any* spoof as 
> a spoof. The most prolific spoofer on this forum
> deals in crude, burlesque-type spoofs that are
> instantly obvious as such. After being fed that
> kind of spoof for a while, you're less likely
> to recognize more subtle spoofs; your spoof
> detector gets dulled because you've gotten used
> to the crudity.
> 
> This one, in contrast, was quite subtle. But
> there were still telltale signs that *should*
> have clued you in.
> 
> And that's the second thing involved: the TM
> critics here *want* to think the worst of the
> TMO, so you're absurdly gullible, ready to
> believe anything--as you acknowledge above--and
> that willingness dulls your alertness to the
> telltale signs as well. You're invested in its
> *not* being a spoof; you want it to be real so
> you can wallow in scorn and disgust.
> 
> Those of us who got that it was a spoof have a
> more realistic view of the TMO (and perhaps a
> more finely honed sense of humor as well). Not
> that we don't see that the TMO has become
> ridiculous--I certainly do--but that we have a
> better sense of what's merely ridiculous and
> what would go over the line into seriously
> warped, like that rogue Mormon group. The TMO's
> not *that* warped; you have to be warped
> yourself to think it would go that far.
> 
> When I learned TM in the mid-'70s, I gave the 
> TMO a bit of a whirl. It didn't take long for me
> to decide it was sillier than I could tolerate. I
> "ran away" while you were still crawling out of
> bed for Maharishi at 2 in the morning.
> 
> So you might want to think about checking your 
> own high-and-mightyness, pal.
> 
> Yes, you were young and foolish; I had the 
> benefit of being older and more resistant to
> nonsense. Maybe I'd have been better able to
> tolerate it when I was your age and would've
> gotten sucked in as you did. But, ya know, I'm
> *still* older than you, and you're not looking a
> whole lot less foolish to me now than the TMO
> does. You've switched sides, but you're just as
> heavily into nonsense. That's why you didn't 
> recognize it as a spoof.
> 
> (That's 50 for me. See yez later.)

Oh, the STING of your barb Judith! The shame! Whatever shall I do?

[FairfieldLife] Re: I see Bevan has been polishing his thumbscrews

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "guyfawkes91"  wrote:
>
> I see the TMO is starting to get heavy with people who point out its rather 
> obvious failings. YouTube has been told to take down the famous Berlin clip 
> of Schiffgens making an idiot of himself.
> 
> http://nosedef.blogspot.com/2009/04/david-lynch-forces-my-video-of-him.html
> 
> This isn't the only recent case of the TMO getting heavy with people. My 
> guess is that Bevan is the driving force behind the new heavy handed attitude 
> to detractors since he's basically a bully and enjoys that sort of thing.
> 
> Comments?
>
Comments? The tape speaks for itself. You see how normal people react when 
confronted with this madness of the pretend "rajas" and their imaginary world 
government.

Is it any wonder that the TMO and its defenders so strongly reject any attempts 
to be more upfront about the puja or any of the real goings on at the core of 
the TMO? Is it any wonder that the rajas dressed themselves as normies for the 
big Paul McCartney concert? Ask yourself...would Paul have done this concert if 
he saw this clip or any of the daily raja madness from Vlodrop? Wanna test the 
theory and show him? Anyone?

C'mon people.are some of you so far gone that this is such a difficult 
concept to grasp? (Nabby, no need to answer. I already know you view the German 
raja spewing fascism and wonder what all the fuss is about.)

This tape should be viewed again and again. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance  wrote:
> >
> > FORWARDED:
> > 
> > Sender: gcwpnews@
> > Date: Mon, 21 April 2009 12:10:09 -0500
> > X-Google-Sender-Auth: c7c7e9987d0dd46d
> > Subject: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country or 
> > World Peace
> > 
> > Following consultation with the ladies of Maharishi's Mother Divine Program 
> > and the 21 Rajinis of Maharishi's worldwide movement, His Majesty Maharaja 
> > Adhi Raj Raja Raam has announced the creation of two new groups of ideal 
> > ladies to create enlightenment for all the world.
> > 
> > In a Royal Proclamation to prepare for the celebration of Vaisakhi Purnima 
> > of the Vedic Calendar, His Majesty has proclaimed Vaisakhi Purnima as the 
> > auspicious day of inauguration of Mother Divine Emerita (MDE) and Divine 
> > Devi of the Global Country of World Peace (DD-GCWP).
> > 
> > In a worldwide satellite conference celebration, amid cheers, applause, and 
> > the sounds of conches and ringing bells, His Majesty announced: "It is a 
> > great joy to invite current ladies of Mother Divine to join Mother Divine 
> > Emerita and continue to sanctify the world with their blessing.  This 
> > invitation will be of particular interest to our dear Mothers Divine who 
> > have blessed the world for at least 15 years or who are 35 years of age or 
> > older."
> > 
> > His Majesty explained that it was always Maharishi's wish that the ladies 
> > of Maharishi's Mother Divine would be granted the title of "Mother Divine 
> > Emerita" as a celebration of gratitude to their continuous blessings on our 
> > worldwide movement and creating Heaven on Earth. 
> > 
> > More details of this beautiful program will be announced shortly. In the 
> > meantime, all of our dear Mother Divine ladies interested should please 
> > contact the Mother Divine Emerita office at apply@
> > 
> > His Majesty also announced the creation of a beautiful new program, Divine 
> > Devi of the Global Country of World Peace, created especially for ladies 
> > everywhere who are seeking true enlightenment – but who also wish to join 
> > His Majesty and Their Excellencies, The 40 Rajas of our Worldwide Movement, 
> > in perpetuating the administration of Maharishi's Worldwide Movement and 
> > creating the enlightened leaders of tomorrow for our beloved Maharishi's 
> > Worldwide Movement. 
> > 
> > According to His Majesty, the goal of Divine Devi of the Global Country of 
> > World Peace is to create a Royal Family of the Global Country of World 
> > Peace to ensure enlightenment administration of the world for all mankind 
> > for all generations. 
> > 
> > More details of this beautiful program will be announced shortly. Please 
> > distribute this Royal Proclamation to all ladies.  Given the nature of this 
> > program, this program is limited to ladies between 18 and 22 years of age.  
> > In special cases, ladies as young as 15 years of age will be considered 
> > depending on their country of residence at the time of application.  
> > 
> > All interested ladies should know that their local Rajas are very, very 
> > excited about this program and are immediately available to personally 
> > answer all questions related to this beautiful program. If it is not 
> > immediately possible to speak with their local Raja, ladies are requested 
> > to contact the Divine Devi of the Global Country of World Peace office by 
> > email at urgent@ 
> > 
> >   
> > PROCLAMATION
> > By the Royal Order 
> > of 
> > His Majesty Maharaja Adhi Raj Raja Raam,
> > First Ruler of Vishwa Shanti Rashtra, The Global Country of World Peace
> > 
> > In Preparation for the Auspicious Celebration of Vaisakhi Purnima
> > Of the Year 2066 of the Vedic Calendar
> >
> 
> 
> 1st thought: What the gibbering fuck is this insane 
> nonsense.
> 
> 2nd thought: It's got to be a send up. But it's a good
> one. I'm so used to madness like this I really can't tell
> for sure.
> 
> I had to search the net for a bit and the sender ID is from
> one David Shapiro which implies either authenticity or spoofing
> above the high standard we usually get. But the e-mail links
> just go to the FFL post topic page.
> 
> The only other place any of the keywords in the title come up
> is on TM-Free so it looks like they've been had too. If indeed
> we have been, I'm going to keep my options open but I always 
> get suckered by these things but I've seen it all so often I 
> can't tell the difference anymore!
>
Yep, and that's pretty much the point. Spoof or not, what does it matter? The 
lines get blurry!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > The third paragraph:
> > > 
> > 
> > I haven't been following this closely enough early on to see if I would 
> > have detected a spoof or not, but lets examine this paragraph and compare 
> > it to the real MD program.
> > 
> > 
> >  This
> > > invitation will be of particular interest to our
> > > dear Mothers Divine who have blessed the world for
> > > at least 15 years or who are 35 years of age or
> > > older.'"
> > 
> > Me:
> > 
> > Age requirements for a retirement course.  Sounds right.
> > 
> > > 
> > > This really didn't trigger your spoof detector?
> > > 
> > > Seriously??
> > > 
> > > Wow.
> > 
> > So what exactly in that quote is so out of line from what the movement is 
> > actually doing?  Is the idea that they might actually be taking care of 
> > older MD members with a special program designed for their needs instead of 
> > chucking them out on the street when they become a financial burden the 
> > part that is soo  un TM movement?
> > 
> > 
> 
> Well I am not as sharp as Judy. And I initially skimmed Turqs commented 
> reposting and did not question its validity. 
> 
> However, then I read the original post in full. By the 6th paragraph, tell me 
> with a straight face -- anyone -- that you believe this could be real: 
> 
> 1)  "created especially for ladies everywhere who are seeking true 
> enlightenment"
> 
> As opposed to all the other TMO sucker programs that offer not real 
> enlightenment? Yea, the TMO is going to bad mouth all of its other 
> enlightenment programs.  
> 
> 2)  "but who also wish to join His Majesty and Their Excellencies, The 40 
> Rajas of our Worldwide Movement, in perpetuating the administration of 
> Maharishi's Worldwide Movement and creating the enlightened leaders of 
> tomorrow for our beloved Maharishi's Worldwide Movement."
> 
> A bunch of young "Devi's working directly with the rajas? Hmm its beginning 
> to smell fishy.  
> >
> 
> 3) " According to His Majesty, the goal of Divine Devi of the Global Country 
> of World Peace is to create a Royal Family of the Global Country of World 
> Peace" 
> 
> Royal Family? this did initally get me thinking about perpetuating the 
> lineage.  But it also sounds a bit put on.
> 
> 
> 4) Given the nature of this program, this program is limited to ladies 
> between 18 and 22 years of age. 
> 
> BINGO! Red Alert! Um why cut it off at 22 -- and why start at 18 (given the 
> movement likes degrees, etc) except if, if its a SPOOF on horny rajas -- 
> whereby 18-22 year olds perfectly fit the bill. 
> 
> 5) "In special cases, ladies as young as 15 years of age will be considered 
> depending on their country of residence at the time of application."
> 
> Bells and Sirens Ringing intensely. DefCom 5 -- We are on the verge of total 
> Reality breakdown. "As young as 15" WTF!!! ! 
> Depending on the country of residence ! an oh by the way -- some 
> countries have an age of legal consent < 18? Jeez , could there be a 
> connection here???!!! Even the wacko dysfunctional Movement would not 
> publicly advertise a brand spanking new pedaphile program for its 
> distinguished leaders.
> 
> 
> 6)  "All interested ladies should know that their local Rajas are very, very 
> excited "
> 
> Um How large and grand is their excitement! Do you think they can contain 
> their excitment much longer!!?? Can anyone possibly take this as a serious 
> news release?
> 
> 7) "rajas ... are immediately available to personally answer
> all questions related to this beautiful program."
> 
> Immediately available huh. Talking to 18-22 year old girls has a higher 
> priority than all of the other projects? Imediately available!!  No bells? 
> Really? 
> 
> 8) "If it is not immediately possible to speak with their local Raja, ladies 
> are requested to contact the Divine Devi of the Global Country of World Peace 
> office by email at urgent@"
> 
> At "urgent@ ..." HA! Quick Ladies. These old guys can neither keep it up, nor 
> hold it for much longer. Its URGENT! 
> 
> As PT Barnum said, " ...
>
Yep, PT was right. Mahesh and the Shrivastava/Varma clan clearly studied him 
carefully.

Look, if back in the 70's someone described the Raja's and King Tony (and the 
photo of King Tony on the scale), the special houses, the special honey, the 
yagyas for hire, the astrologers for hire, the hopping sold as "flying" for 
hire.(and I'm just thinking off the top of my head) and described it all in 
great detail and told you "this is what the TMO is going to look like in the 
year 2009, you'd say it was a hoax and total bull shit. I mean there's no way 
our precious Maharishi and his movement would involve itself in such silliness 
so clearly contrary to the "knowledge", right?

So when a spoof, a very well written one as this one was,

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, satvadude108  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Judy, I didn't respond to you because I've concluded 
> > > > > that word wrestling with you is about as useful as 
> > > > > arguing with Nabby or WillyTex. I don't have time time 
> > > > > to get into convoluted dialogs with you. I don't have 
> > > > > time to get into convoluted dialogs with anyone here 
> > > > > for that matter. I check in when I get a moment, post 
> > > > > quick comments when I'm able and move on to to other 
> > > > > pressing matters. You've made it clear over the years 
> > > > > that "winning" is of utmost importance to you. While, 
> > > > > I've enjoyed a few posts of yours concerning food or 
> > > > > birds, I find the endless "you're lying and you know 
> > > > > it" crap to be tiring and mind-numbingly boring. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > That's why I don't rumble in the jungle with you.
> > > > 
> > > > Wise man. 
> > > > 
> > > > Add to what you said, however, the fact that
> > > > the person trying to taunt you into entering
> > > > an argument with her is the person who recently
> > > > defined a good discussion (à la a.m.t.) as one
> > > > that she could prolong until it was "100 posts
> > > > deep." 
> > > > 
> > > > Since saying that, she has tried to taunt at
> > > > least four people into such an argument. And
> > > > it never even *occurs* to her that by saying
> > > > what she's trying to do (lure people into end-
> > > > less arguments) and then attempting to do just 
> > > > that she might be shooting herself in the foot.  
> > > > 
> > > > That's our Judy. Not just an attention vampire, 
> > > > but a stupid attention vampire.
> > > 
> > > Do you ever tire of being stalked by her?
> > > 
> > > What makes it kinda funny to read is she 
> > > never seems to see her stalking always is
> > > adroitly flipped to her acting like a monkey 
> > > you have on a chain, begging for coins and 
> > > support from passers by.
> > 
> > I'm sure that the monkey thinks it's
> > "owning" the organ grinder as well.  :-)
> > 
> > Some folks on a.m.t. used to characterize 
> > our relationship as Judy being a wind-up 
> > toy and me being the person with the key.
> > Whatever. The bottom line is that Judy has 
> > only one post left for the week and I have
> > 20. Her compulsion to "correct" and "manage"
> > any view of her that does not match the one 
> > in her head makes her easy prey. 
> > 
> > Did you ever watch Reverend Gene Scott on
> > TV? I used to love Gene. He was a very smart
> > guy, a Stanford grad, who realized that 
> > there was more money to be made in being
> > a TV preacher than in other forms of bus-
> > iness. His show was informative and some-
> > times even esoteric, but basically it was
> > 20% religion and 80% "Send me money to
> > fight Satan!"
> > 
> > This is not the percentage that the FCC
> > demands of TV stations, so they were always
> > trying to sue Gene and his TV station to
> > provide the balance of programming required
> > by the law. Gene did not take kindly to 
> > this, and so periodically he would go on
> > anti-FCC rants in a very entertaining way.
> > 
> > He bought all these little wind-up toys --
> > monkeys clanging cymbals, barking dogs,
> > etc., and then he would wind them up and
> > let them run around in front of his chair
> > on live TV while he sat there and badrapped
> > the FCC and said, "Send me money to fight
> > Satan and the FCC!"
> > 
> > The thing that Judy does not and has never
> > understood is that I am *not* trying to
> > "silence" her, as she has claimed. That
> > is the *opposite* of what I intend. I have
> > told her many, many times wha

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, satvadude108  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Judy, I didn't respond to you because I've concluded 
> > > > that word wrestling with you is about as useful as 
> > > > arguing with Nabby or WillyTex. I don't have time time 
> > > > to get into convoluted dialogs with you. I don't have 
> > > > time to get into convoluted dialogs with anyone here 
> > > > for that matter. I check in when I get a moment, post 
> > > > quick comments when I'm able and move on to to other 
> > > > pressing matters. You've made it clear over the years 
> > > > that "winning" is of utmost importance to you. While, 
> > > > I've enjoyed a few posts of yours concerning food or 
> > > > birds, I find the endless "you're lying and you know 
> > > > it" crap to be tiring and mind-numbingly boring. 
> > > > 
> > > > That's why I don't rumble in the jungle with you.
> > > 
> > > Wise man. 
> > > 
> > > Add to what you said, however, the fact that
> > > the person trying to taunt you into entering
> > > an argument with her is the person who recently
> > > defined a good discussion (à la a.m.t.) as one
> > > that she could prolong until it was "100 posts
> > > deep." 
> > > 
> > > Since saying that, she has tried to taunt at
> > > least four people into such an argument. And
> > > it never even *occurs* to her that by saying
> > > what she's trying to do (lure people into end-
> > > less arguments) and then attempting to do just 
> > > that she might be shooting herself in the foot.  
> > > 
> > > That's our Judy. Not just an attention vampire, 
> > > but a stupid attention vampire.
> > 
> > Do you ever tire of being stalked by her?
> > 
> > What makes it kinda funny to read is she 
> > never seems to see her stalking always is
> > adroitly flipped to her acting like a monkey 
> > you have on a chain, begging for coins and 
> > support from passers by.
> 
> I'm sure that the monkey thinks it's
> "owning" the organ grinder as well.  :-)
> 
> Some folks on a.m.t. used to characterize 
> our relationship as Judy being a wind-up 
> toy and me being the person with the key.
> Whatever. The bottom line is that Judy has 
> only one post left for the week and I have
> 20. Her compulsion to "correct" and "manage"
> any view of her that does not match the one 
> in her head makes her easy prey. 
> 
> Did you ever watch Reverend Gene Scott on
> TV? I used to love Gene. He was a very smart
> guy, a Stanford grad, who realized that 
> there was more money to be made in being
> a TV preacher than in other forms of bus-
> iness. His show was informative and some-
> times even esoteric, but basically it was
> 20% religion and 80% "Send me money to
> fight Satan!"
> 
> This is not the percentage that the FCC
> demands of TV stations, so they were always
> trying to sue Gene and his TV station to
> provide the balance of programming required
> by the law. Gene did not take kindly to 
> this, and so periodically he would go on
> anti-FCC rants in a very entertaining way.
> 
> He bought all these little wind-up toys --
> monkeys clanging cymbals, barking dogs,
> etc., and then he would wind them up and
> let them run around in front of his chair
> on live TV while he sat there and badrapped
> the FCC and said, "Send me money to fight
> Satan and the FCC!"
> 
> The thing that Judy does not and has never
> understood is that I am *not* trying to
> "silence" her, as she has claimed. That
> is the *opposite* of what I intend. I have
> told her many, many times what my intention
> is, but her ego prevents her from hearing
> it, just as that same ego prevents her from
> seeing the truth about TM and what she has 
> been taught about it.
> 
> You don't wind up tiny toy monkeys clanging
> cymbals to "silence" them. You wind them up 
> SO THAT THEY'LL DO THEIR THING 
> AND PEOPLE WILL LAUGH AT THEM.
> 
> Everything I ever needed to know about how
> to handle Judy Stein's stalking I learned
> from the late, great Reverend Gene Scott.
>
Gene Scott! Man, t

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, satvadude108  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Judy, I didn't respond to you because I've concluded 
> > > that word wrestling with you is about as useful as 
> > > arguing with Nabby or WillyTex. I don't have time time 
> > > to get into convoluted dialogs with you. I don't have 
> > > time to get into convoluted dialogs with anyone here 
> > > for that matter. I check in when I get a moment, post 
> > > quick comments when I'm able and move on to to other 
> > > pressing matters. You've made it clear over the years 
> > > that "winning" is of utmost importance to you. While, 
> > > I've enjoyed a few posts of yours concerning food or 
> > > birds, I find the endless "you're lying and you know 
> > > it" crap to be tiring and mind-numbingly boring. 
> > > 
> > > That's why I don't rumble in the jungle with you.
> > 
> > Wise man. 
> > 
> > Add to what you said, however, the fact that
> > the person trying to taunt you into entering
> > an argument with her is the person who recently
> > defined a good discussion (à la a.m.t.) as one
> > that she could prolong until it was "100 posts
> > deep." 
> > 
> > Since saying that, she has tried to taunt at
> > least four people into such an argument. And
> > it never even *occurs* to her that by saying
> > what she's trying to do (lure people into end-
> > less arguments) and then attempting to do just 
> > that she might be shooting herself in the foot.  
> > 
> > That's our Judy. Not just an attention vampire, 
> > but a stupid attention vampire.
> >
> 
> Do you ever tire of being stalked by her?
> 
> What makes it kinda funny to read is she 
> never seems to see her stalking always is
> adroitly flipped to her acting like a monkey 
> you have on a chain, begging for coins and 
> support from passers by.
>
True...very true. But it's so low. The MOST guilty pleasure!

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Judy, I didn't respond to you because I've concluded 
> > > that word wrestling with you is about as useful as 
> > > arguing with Nabby or WillyTex. I don't have time time 
> > > to get into convoluted dialogs with you. I don't have 
> > > time to get into convoluted dialogs with anyone here 
> > > for that matter. I check in when I get a moment, post 
> > > quick comments when I'm able and move on to to other 
> > > pressing matters. You've made it clear over the years 
> > > that "winning" is of utmost importance to you. While, 
> > > I've enjoyed a few posts of yours concerning food or 
> > > birds, I find the endless "you're lying and you know 
> > > it" crap to be tiring and mind-numbingly boring. 
> > > 
> > > That's why I don't rumble in the jungle with you.
> > 
> > Wise man. 
> > 
> > Add to what you said, however, the fact that
> > the person trying to taunt you into entering
> > an argument with her is the person who recently
> > defined a good discussion (à la a.m.t.) as one
> > that she could prolong until it was "100 posts
> > deep."
> 
> No, that isn't a fact, and Barry knows it isn't a
> fact. Ergo, he's lying.
> 
> > Since saying that, she has tried to taunt at
> > least four people into such an argument.
> 
> And this is a lie as well.
> 
> As I predicted, it's going to take awhile for Barry
> to work off his extreme agitation at having been
> definitively owned in the past couple of days, and
> while he's trying to neutralize his agony, he's going
> to say one extremely stupid thing after another.
> 
> For example, above he says, "She's trying to taunt
> you into an argument" when he's very much aware that
> it was Geeze who "taunted" me, not the other way
> around. Even Geeze acknowledges this *in the very
> post Barry quotes*.
>
(yawn) what?

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> 
> > With the puja you had the added weirdness of people
> > not knowing what the F you were doing.  We down play
> > the weirdness so much in the intro and prep with our
> > suits and ties and talk of science, and then then we
> > hit them with the sandalwood incense infused puja
> > room and we show up like the little devoted outcaste
> > Hindu-wannabees we were.  All of a sudden Mr.
> > Scientific Charts transforms by doing a detailed
> > ritual that goes on pretty long, right from the middle
> > ages!  What a trip!
> 
> So lessee, Curtis, were you trying to deceive them
> into thinking the puja wasn't anything special, just
> everyday, casual stuff--I'm just giving you the flower
> 'cause I thought you'd enjoy holding it; I'm returning
> a piece of fruit to you 'cause I figured you might be
> hungry?
> 
> Or were you doing exactly the opposite, as you describe
> above, striking holy awe into their poor innocent
> hearts, befuddling their vulnerable minds with the
> sheer hyperreligious weirdness of it all?
> 
> I asked Geeze what he had thought of Barry's post
> claiming that *he* had never thought of what he was
> involved with as religious during his years in the
> movement, but Geeze seems to have felt it wouldn't
> be politic to comment.
> 
> How 'bout you, Curtis? If somebody as allergic as
> Barry is to religion didn't think of what he was
> doing as religious--and claims he didn't leave the
> TMO because he had come to think he had been
> practicing a religion after all--isn't that support
> for my point that it's only what the *individual*
> thinks about what they're doing that's relevant?
> 
> (Barry says he was focused entirely on self-
> discovery, which he doesn't believe is associated
> with religion. He's invited to chime in if he feels
> I've misrepresented what he said.)
>
Judy, I didn't respond to you because I've concluded that word wrestling with 
you is about as useful as arguing with Nabby or WillyTex. I don't have time 
time to get into convoluted dialogs with you. I don't have time to get into 
convoluted dialogs with anyone here for that matter. I check in when I get a 
moment, post quick comments when I'm able and move on to to other pressing 
matters. You've made it clear over the years that "winning" is of utmost 
importance to you. While, I've enjoyed a few posts of yours concerning food or 
birds, I find the endless "you're lying and you know it" crap to be tiring and 
mind-numbingly boring. 

That's why I don't rumble in the jungle with you.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> 
> > > Thanks. I had fun with it, whether it turns
> > > out to be a spoof or not. The thing is...when
> > > dealing with an organization as crazy as the
> > > TMO, you can never be sure.  :-)
> > 
> > And look at all of the elements in there that are NOT
> > a spoof! (If this is indeed a spoof) So before the TBs
> > out there get too high and mighty about this remember
> > that for most of the way through the post YOU thought
> > it was real too!
> 
> I realized it was a spoof by the third paragraph.
> 

Uh-huh.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
> > >
> > > I just *know* I'm gonna get flack for this,
> > > but I just can't resist. It's like giving a
> > > lifelong vaudeville comedian a straight line
> > > and expecting him not to respond with a joke.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the 
> > > > Global Country or World Peace
> > > 
> > > Why is it that this announcement feels so 
> > > appropriate coming right on the heels of 
> > > "women are only good for tempting men to
> > > leave the spiritual path" JohnR talking 
> > > about beauty contests?  :-)
> > > 
> > > > Following consultation with the ladies of Maharishi's 
> > > > Mother Divine Program and the 21 Rajinis of Maharishi's 
> > > > worldwide movement, His Majesty Maharaja Adhi Raj Raja 
> > > > Raam has announced the creation of two new groups of 
> > > > ideal ladies to create enlightenment for all the world.
> > > 
> > > First wonderful buzzphrase -- "ideal ladies."
> > > 
> > > Call me sick, but I'm picturing a Barbie 
> > > with no genitals dressed in a sari, walking
> > > several paces behind a Ken doll dressed in
> > > a white robe and wearing a crown.
> > > 
> > > > In a Royal Proclamation to prepare for the celebration 
> > > > of Vaisakhi Purnima of the Vedic Calendar...
> > > 
> > > This celebration will hopefully provide a
> > > bit of a break for the hard-working Rajas
> > > and Rajinis and Mothers Divine (more on this
> > > buzzphrase later), in between telling heads
> > > of school systems that TM is not a religion.
> > > 
> > > > ...His Majesty has proclaimed Vaisakhi Purnima as the 
> > > > auspicious day of inauguration of Mother Divine Emerita 
> > > > (MDE) and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World 
> > > > Peace (DD-GCWP).
> > > 
> > > Why do I suddenly have a vision of Sister
> > > Aloysious from "Doubt?" And why does the
> > > phrase "Old Nun's Club" suddenly spring to
> > > mind?
> > > 
> > > > In a worldwide satellite conference celebration, amid 
> > > > cheers, applause, and the sounds of conches and ringing 
> > > > bells...
> > > 
> > > The mind boggles at the things that Old Nuns
> > > consider a "celebration."
> > > 
> > > > ...His Majesty announced: "It is a great joy to invite 
> > > > current ladies of Mother Divine to join Mother Divine 
> > > > Emerita and continue to sanctify the world with their 
> > > > blessing. This invitation will be of particular interest 
> > > > to our dear Mothers Divine...
> > > 
> > > "Mothers Divine?" Well, I guess it's better
> > > than "Mother Divines." Can't be implying that
> > > there could be more than one "Divine," can we?  :-)
> > > 
> > > > ...who have blessed the world for at least 15 years or 
> > > > who are 35 years of age or older."
> > > 
> > > It IS an Old Nun's Club. 
> > > 
> > > I'm surprised there is not a "dryness test" 
> > > as well as a "length of time test" as a 
> > > criterion for membership.
> > > 
> > > > His Majesty explained that it was always Maharishi's 
> > > > wish that the ladies of Maharishi's Mother Divine would 
> > > > be granted the title of "Mother Divine Emerita"... 
> > > 
> > > Hold on here just a moment. "Granted?"
> > > 
> > > Doesn't that sorta imply that these "ladies"
> > > are second-class citizens who can only be
> > > "granted" things by their betters, the men?
> > > 
> > > And isn't "granting" these "ladies" a more
> > > lofty title while keeping them far, far away
> > > from the real reins of power in the TMO a lot
> > > like "granting" your secretary the title of
> > > "administrative assista

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:
>
> I just *know* I'm gonna get flack for this,
> but I just can't resist. It's like giving a
> lifelong vaudeville comedian a straight line
> and expecting him not to respond with a joke.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance  wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the 
> > Global Country or World Peace
> 
> Why is it that this announcement feels so 
> appropriate coming right on the heels of 
> "women are only good for tempting men to
> leave the spiritual path" JohnR talking 
> about beauty contests?  :-)
> 
> > Following consultation with the ladies of Maharishi's 
> > Mother Divine Program and the 21 Rajinis of Maharishi's 
> > worldwide movement, His Majesty Maharaja Adhi Raj Raja 
> > Raam has announced the creation of two new groups of 
> > ideal ladies to create enlightenment for all the world.
> 
> First wonderful buzzphrase -- "ideal ladies."
> 
> Call me sick, but I'm picturing a Barbie 
> with no genitals dressed in a sari, walking
> several paces behind a Ken doll dressed in
> a white robe and wearing a crown.
> 
> > In a Royal Proclamation to prepare for the celebration 
> > of Vaisakhi Purnima of the Vedic Calendar...
> 
> This celebration will hopefully provide a
> bit of a break for the hard-working Rajas
> and Rajinis and Mothers Divine (more on this
> buzzphrase later), in between telling heads
> of school systems that TM is not a religion.
> 
> > ...His Majesty has proclaimed Vaisakhi Purnima as the 
> > auspicious day of inauguration of Mother Divine Emerita 
> > (MDE) and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World 
> > Peace (DD-GCWP).
> 
> Why do I suddenly have a vision of Sister
> Aloysious from "Doubt?" And why does the
> phrase "Old Nun's Club" suddenly spring to
> mind?
> 
> > In a worldwide satellite conference celebration, amid 
> > cheers, applause, and the sounds of conches and ringing 
> > bells...
> 
> The mind boggles at the things that Old Nuns
> consider a "celebration."
> 
> > ...His Majesty announced: "It is a great joy to invite 
> > current ladies of Mother Divine to join Mother Divine 
> > Emerita and continue to sanctify the world with their 
> > blessing. This invitation will be of particular interest 
> > to our dear Mothers Divine...
> 
> "Mothers Divine?" Well, I guess it's better
> than "Mother Divines." Can't be implying that
> there could be more than one "Divine," can we?  :-)
> 
> > ...who have blessed the world for at least 15 years or 
> > who are 35 years of age or older."
> 
> It IS an Old Nun's Club. 
> 
> I'm surprised there is not a "dryness test" 
> as well as a "length of time test" as a 
> criterion for membership.
> 
> > His Majesty explained that it was always Maharishi's 
> > wish that the ladies of Maharishi's Mother Divine would 
> > be granted the title of "Mother Divine Emerita"... 
> 
> Hold on here just a moment. "Granted?"
> 
> Doesn't that sorta imply that these "ladies"
> are second-class citizens who can only be
> "granted" things by their betters, the men?
> 
> And isn't "granting" these "ladies" a more
> lofty title while keeping them far, far away
> from the real reins of power in the TMO a lot
> like "granting" your secretary the title of
> "administrative assistant" while keeping her
> a secretary, and at the same salary?  
> 
> > ...as a celebration of gratitude to their continuous 
> > blessings on our worldwide movement and creating 
> > Heaven on Earth. 
> 
> I'm curious as to how these "blessings" occur.
> Is it the mechanism of not having sex that confers
> the blessings, or some other mechanism? Curious
> minds want to know.
> 
> > More details of this beautiful program will be announced 
> > shortly. 
> 
> As soon as the men think them up and impose
> them on the "ladies."
> 
> > In the meantime, all of our dear Mother Divine ladies 
> > interested should please contact the Mother Divine 
> > Emerita office at apply@
> 
> And we'll send you a printed-in-gold certificate
> that you can hang in your cube saying that you
> are now an administrative assistant, no longer
> a secretary. Get me another coffee, will you 
> honey?
> 
> > His Majesty also announced the creation of a beautiful 
> > new program, Divine Devi of the Global Country of World 
> > Peace, created especially for ladies everywhere who are 
> > seeking true enlightenment – but who also wish to join 
> > His Majesty and Their Excellencies, The 40 Rajas of our 
> > Worldwide Movement, in perpetuating the administration 
> > of Maharishi's Worldwide Movement and creating the 
> > enlightened leaders of tomorrow for our beloved 
> > Maharishi's Worldwide Movement. 
> 
> H. This sounds like a recruitment speech 
> in high schools for "Virgins For Jesus" to me.
> 
> > According to His Majesty...
> 
> And you should believe him because he has a title,
> just like you'll have if you join our new Virgins
> For Vishnu Club...
> 
> > ...the goal of Divine De

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country of World P

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance  wrote:
>
> FORWARDED:
> 
> Sender: gcwpnews@
> Date: Mon, 21 April 2009 12:10:09 -0500
> X-Google-Sender-Auth: c7c7e9987d0dd46d
> Subject: Mother Divine Emerita and Divine Devi of the Global Country or World 
> Peace
> 
> Following consultation with the ladies of Maharishi's Mother Divine Program 
> and the 21 Rajinis of Maharishi's worldwide movement, His Majesty Maharaja 
> Adhi Raj Raja Raam has announced the creation of two new groups of ideal 
> ladies to create enlightenment for all the world.
> 
> In a Royal Proclamation to prepare for the celebration of Vaisakhi Purnima of 
> the Vedic Calendar, His Majesty has proclaimed Vaisakhi Purnima as the 
> auspicious day of inauguration of Mother Divine Emerita (MDE) and Divine Devi 
> of the Global Country of World Peace (DD-GCWP).
> 
> In a worldwide satellite conference celebration, amid cheers, applause, and 
> the sounds of conches and ringing bells, His Majesty announced: "It is a 
> great joy to invite current ladies of Mother Divine to join Mother Divine 
> Emerita and continue to sanctify the world with their blessing.  This 
> invitation will be of particular interest to our dear Mothers Divine who have 
> blessed the world for at least 15 years or who are 35 years of age or older."
> 
> His Majesty explained that it was always Maharishi's wish that the ladies of 
> Maharishi's Mother Divine would be granted the title of "Mother Divine 
> Emerita" as a celebration of gratitude to their continuous blessings on our 
> worldwide movement and creating Heaven on Earth. 
> 
> More details of this beautiful program will be announced shortly. In the 
> meantime, all of our dear Mother Divine ladies interested should please 
> contact the Mother Divine Emerita office at ap...@...
> 
> His Majesty also announced the creation of a beautiful new program, Divine 
> Devi of the Global Country of World Peace, created especially for ladies 
> everywhere who are seeking true enlightenment – but who also wish to join His 
> Majesty and Their Excellencies, The 40 Rajas of our Worldwide Movement, in 
> perpetuating the administration of Maharishi's Worldwide Movement and 
> creating the enlightened leaders of tomorrow for our beloved Maharishi's 
> Worldwide Movement. 
> 
> According to His Majesty, the goal of Divine Devi of the Global Country of 
> World Peace is to create a Royal Family of the Global Country of World Peace 
> to ensure enlightenment administration of the world for all mankind for all 
> generations. 
> 
> More details of this beautiful program will be announced shortly. Please 
> distribute this Royal Proclamation to all ladies.  Given the nature of this 
> program, this program is limited to ladies between 18 and 22 years of age.  
> In special cases, ladies as young as 15 years of age will be considered 
> depending on their country of residence at the time of application.  
> 
> All interested ladies should know that their local Rajas are very, very 
> excited about this program and are immediately available to personally answer 
> all questions related to this beautiful program. If it is not immediately 
> possible to speak with their local Raja, ladies are requested to contact the 
> Divine Devi of the Global Country of World Peace office by email at 
> urg...@... 
> 
>   
> PROCLAMATION
> By the Royal Order 
> of 
> His Majesty Maharaja Adhi Raj Raja Raam,
> First Ruler of Vishwa Shanti Rashtra, The Global Country of World Peace
> 
> In Preparation for the Auspicious Celebration of Vaisakhi Purnima
> Of the Year 2066 of the Vedic Calendar
>
Hey, all of you "ideal ladies" out there in Vishwa Shanti Rashtra land (and you 
know who you are)still think TM isn't a religion?

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> 
> > Curtis's arguments make no sense to you because
> > allowing yourself to agree with them would mean
> > that you have been participating in a religion
> > all this time.
> 
> BTW, Geeze, what did you think of Barry's recent
> long post in which he claimed to have been utterly
> nonreligious throughout all his years in the TMO?
> 
> (I'd dig it up for you, but as noted, search is
> broken for posts after March 19.)
>

(yawn)  what?

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Science Of Spiritual Marketing (Is kneeling *ever* just kneeling)

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> 
> > Judy (from a post on alt.m.t):
> > We've discussed this before here, and TMers chimed in
> > about their own initiations; some knelt, some didn't.
> > I didn't.  There's no pressure to do so.  Some who
> > had more recently learned TM said there hadn't even
> > been an *invitation* to kneel.
> > 
> > ME:
> > No one if forced to kneel.  But the presumptive motion
> > we make as we kneel,indicating that they kneel worked
> > every time I used it.  I never had anyone in all my
> > teaching, not kneel.  The impression that some do and
> > some don't is a vast overstatement of people who do not.
> > It would require a pretty strong oppositional
> > personality or a person who had their own religious
> > convictions to not go along.
> 
> Must have been lots of 'em on alt.m.t and among the 
> TMers I knew, then. "Some do, some don't" is not an
> overstatement in terms of my observation and that of
> others on alt.m.t, including one TM teacher.
>  
> > Judy:
> > Even if the student *does* choose to kneel at the end,
> > he or she spends most of the ceremony standing off to
> > the side, just watching, contrary to the post I was
> > responding to which claimed by analogy, falsely, that
> > the student was "on his knees" throughout and very
> > directly participated.
> > 
> > ME:
> > "Just watching" IS how you participate in a Hindu puja.
> 
> "Just watching" is how you participate in a movie, too.
> 
> This argument doesn't work when it involves an *absence*
> of active participation, Curtis. Not-doing what Hindus
> don't-do doesn't add up to Hindu-type participation.
> 
> > They don't have the call and response deal Christians have.
> 
> Don't have call and response at the movies, either (unless
> it's the Rocky Horror Show).
> 
> > Judy:
> > Moreover, if the student doesn't show up with fruit and
> > handkerchief and flowers, the center usually has a supply on
> > hand.
> > 
> > ME:
> > I take exception to this.  We sent them out to get the stuff
> > if they came without it.
> 
> Regardless of what you may have done, I did fruit
> and flowers for several weekends at the Manhattan 
> TM Center, and we always had a supply of fruit and
> flowers on hand for people who forgot them.
> 
> > Judy:
> > Again, unless the student chooses to kneel at the very end of the
> > ceremony, he or she cannot be said to participate in it in any
> > way.  And even that minimal participation is entirely optional.
> > 
> > Me:
> > Now that you know more about traditional Hindu pujas
> > you may want to amend this claim. In a Hindu puja, you
> > give the priest offerings to be made on your behalf
> > and you give him cash for his service.  The student
> > who is not aware of how pujas are done may be confused
> > about their level of participation.
> 
> This argument makes no sense to me whatsoever. As far
> as the student is concerned, s/he is not participating.
> What the *teacher* thinks is irrelevant to what the
> student thinks, unless you want to claim that the
> student participates unknowingly via telepathy from the
> teacher.
> 
> The notion that because Hindus don't actively
> participate in pujas, and TM students don't actively
> participate, therefore TM students are participating
> without knowing it, strikes me as the most extreme
> kind of chop-logic.
> 
> It's like saying that since Americans don't bow
> before the U.S. president, and Brits don't bow before
> the U.S. president, therefore the Brits are showing
> fealty to the U.S. president because they're not doing
> what the Americans are not doing.
> 
> > Judy:
> > Finally, it isn't even required that the student witness the
> > ceremony.  Susan Seifert pointed out that she had instructed
> > people who were incapable of witnessing it, let alone of kneeling
> > at the end. 
> > 
> > Me:
> > I question this also.
> 
> Take it up with Susan.
> 
> > As a teacher, we believed that the puja had a magical quality.
> 
> Fine. You're welcome to believe whatever you want
> to believe. Again, unless you want to claim that
> your belief was transferred by telepathy to the student
> and therefore the student believed everything you
> believed *without being aware of it*, what you believed
> is irrelevant.
> 
> 
> > Now the student is welcomed to think of it any way
> > they want.  They can misunderstand everything that
> > is going on.  They can imagine that the words in
> > Sanskrit are the results from the day's horse races
> > if they want.  But that does not change the religious
> > nature of the ceremony, their participation in it or
> > the layers of beliefs that support the insistence
> > that it is performed every time someone learns TM. 
> 
> And I maintain the student is not participating
> unless they think they're participating. You might
> as well say the student has knelt because you
> invited them to even though they never actual

[FairfieldLife] Re: Everything I need to know about FFL I learned from Psychoanalysis

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Kirk wrote:
> > > To quote Robert Langdon (2003):
> > >
> > > "The roots of attachment are consumptive (like greed, lust, gluttony,
> > > vanity-the usual self-aggrandizing desperations), aversive (hatred,  
> > > envy,
> > > simple anger), and ignorant (shirking the responsibility of
> > > self-examination). A translation from moral terms to psychodynamic
> > > strategies is approximate but telling: vanity may well inbue  
> > > narcissism;
> > > gluttory and greed may mask deprivation; lustfulness may shy from  
> > > vulnerable
> > > intimacy; and hatred may serve complacency. Whether and how such  
> > > links apply
> > > to a particular person or a particular time is open to examination,  
> > > which is
> > > the dispelling of ignorance."
> > >
> > > I suggest that those who here show so much anger and yet at the same  
> > > time
> > > are lifelong meditators, might necessarily be showing signs of  
> > > meditation
> > > induced complacency. That complacency coupled with heightened  
> > > awareness
> > > might produced heightened anger.
> > 
> > Or, they could simply be major assholes,
> > who would undoubtedly be the same way
> > whether they meditated or not.
> > 
> > Sal
> >
> 
> The thing is, Nabs words are so pure, so purifying, that those with mondo 
> stress naturally come unglued (did you know that before unstress there was 
> "ungluing") and naturally act out against the source of purification. Nabs IS 
> heaven walking on Earth. And the devil within the commonors and ignorant -- 
> well the devil is going crazy as he, err I mean Heaven, struts his stuff.
>

"Nabs IS heaven walking on Earth." Sounds like a movie promo. If Nabs is 
heaven, you can guess which door I'll choose!