Share Long:
> ...I had heard about the thoroughness of Wilbur's
> system but this is the first time I've read about
> it...
>
Don't be intimidated, Share. You already know more
than you realize, just by your practice of TM,
without even considering the hard problem.
>From what I've read, Ke
t;
>
> From: authfriend
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 11:22 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroup
h that understanding?
From: authfriend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 11:22 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. William
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
>
> Thank you Richard for Ken Wilbur reference. (Thanks for asking,
> Judy. Crappily, even with reminder in strategic spot on desk.
> Those particular neural pathways in my skull must be very
> strong.) Anyway, my question comes not from a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote:
>
> Share Long:
> > Judy why do you think it's not useful to try
> > to make any connections or draw parallels
> > between the "hard problem" approach to
> > consciousness and any Eastern system?
> >
> Share: If you find Judy's
ience.
From: authfriend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2013 9:19 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
>
> Judy why do you thi
Share Long:
> Judy why do you think it's not useful to try
> to make any connections or draw parallels
> between the "hard problem" approach to
> consciousness and any Eastern system?
>
Share: If you find Judy's discussion lacking,
Ken Wilber has provided a synthesis of virtually
all psychologi
d
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 9:22 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
>
>
>
> Â
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > For someone l
_
From: authfriend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 9:22 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
>
> For someone like Guilio Tononi and his Integ
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
>
> For someone like Guilio Tononi and his Integrated Information
> Theory, ALL possible states that a conscious entity can be in
> are qualia, contentless or not.
OK. The term is used in different ways, but this one is
pretty nonstandard. In
For someone like Guilio Tononi and his Integrated Information Theory, ALL
possible states that a conscious entity can be in are qualia, contentless or
not.
So you first have to decide what a qualia is at some deeper physiological level
before you can answer the question.
Currently, qualia are
Nope. Let's see chapter and verse - chapter and verse.
Why should we have to search the entire Upanishad corpus
to check your translation - unless you want to obfuscate?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "card" wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrot
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" wrote:
>
> Quotes without proper attribution are attempts to avoid scrutiny.
> Unable to sustain examination?
http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_upanishhat/doc_upanishhat.html
http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_upanishhat/maandu.itx
Nuff??
>
>
Quotes without proper attribution are attempts to avoid scrutiny.
Unable to sustain examination?
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "card" wrote:
> >
> > Nope? According to maaNDukya,
>
> Sorry, that's how it was written in the Sanskrit Documents -site.
> Somehow that didn't sound right, so
_
> From: authfriend
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2013 9:47 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
>
>
>
> Â
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
> >
fe] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
>
> My guess, based on my understanding of and little bit of
> experience of CC and GC is that the experiencing of qualia
> increases during development from CC and GC.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
>
> My guess, based on my understanding of and little bit of
> experience of CC and GC is that the experiencing of qualia
> increases during development from CC and GC. Otherwise
> one would be stuck in CC forever, right?
This makes *less*
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
> [...]
> > > Though I think ancient rishis experienced it and wrote
> > > about it.
> >
> > Experienced what and
@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 7:51 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
[...]
> > Though I think anci
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "card" wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
> > [...]
> > > > Though I think
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
> [...]
> > > Though I think ancient rishis experienced it and wrote
> > > about it.
> >
> > Experienced w
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" richard@
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > What the "hard problem" is *about* is something very
> > > > > simple, very immediate, very transparent--that there is
> > > > > *some
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
[...]
> > Though I think ancient rishis experienced it and wrote
> > about it.
>
> Experienced what and wrote about what? Everybody with a
> functioning mind experiences qualia
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > What the "hard problem" is *about* is something very
> > > > simple, very immediate, very transparent--that there is
> > > > *something it is like* to be you, to be me, to be Dennett.
> > > > You may have to sit wit
y, June 4, 2013 4:11 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
Share Long:
> ...everything is about vibration but do we understand
> everything about the deepest nature of vibration and
> its functioning?
>
Apparently the really har
Right and someone like the sophisticated "me" comes along and offers
tremendous insights into other "me"'s - especially the Xeno "me", the
Grandpa Xeno "me"
What does the "me" of Grandpa Xeno show - the "me" of the Xeno shows a
pretty effed up "me" that fantasizes on enlightenment and Unity, that
easure that!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Richard J. Williams
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 1:02 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
>
>
>
> Â
>
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote:
> > > > > What the "hard problem" is *about* is something very
> > > > > simple, very immediate, very transparent--that there is
> > > > > *something it is like* to be yo
Share Long:
> ...everything is about vibration but do we understand
> everything about the deepest nature of vibration and
> its functioning?
>
Apparently the really hard question is the definition
of consciousness, so that makes discussion of altered
states of consciousness even more difficu
> > > > > What the "hard problem" is *about* is something very
> > > > > simple, very immediate, very transparent--that there is
> > > > > *something it is like* to be you, to be me, to be Dennett.
> > > > > You may have to sit with that phrase for awhile before it
> > > > > makes sense; but once
> Spanda:
>
> "The Spanda system, introduced by Vasugupta (c. 800 AD), is
> usually described as 'vibration/movement of consciousness."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_Shaivism
>
yasyonmeSa-nimeSaabhyaaM jagataH pralayodayau
taM shakti-cakra-vibhava-prabhavaM shankaraM stumaH!
-- spa
bably both material and non material like
emptybill's Spanda. Let's build the instruments to measure that!
From: Richard J. Williams
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 1:02 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice i
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > What the "hard problem" is *about* is something very
> > > > simple, very immediate, very transparent--that there is
> > > > *something it is like* to be you, to be me, to be Dennett.
> > > > You may have to sit w
> > > What the "hard problem" is *about* is something very
> > > simple, very immediate, very transparent--that there is
> > > *something it is like* to be you, to be me, to be Dennett.
> > > You may have to sit with that phrase for awhile before it
> > > makes sense; but once it does, a whole lo
Vedic scholars here can help out.
It's not going to help with the hard problem. You're just
on the wrong track with this, Share. You can't get there
from here.
> ________________
> From: authfriend
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: T
t I remember no titles of what I've read about
this but maybe some of the Vedic scholars here can help out.
From: authfriend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 10:23 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument
ipedia's page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness
>
Wiki-Judy. Someone just post a definition of the term consciousness.
>
>
>
> > ________
> > From: authfriend
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.co
fieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 1:24 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> &
this context are unable
to avoid.
From: authfriend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 1:24 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument about Consciousness
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Sus
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> > I've had no formal training in philosophy...
>
> Philosophy's loss.
Well, I dunno about that, but thanks.
*blush*
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> I've had no formal training in philosophy...
Philosophy's loss.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
> This reminds me of the classic scenes from "Dark Star."
> In the first, Sgt. Doolittle tries to talk the AI bomb
> out of exploding while still attached to the ship:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29pPZQ77cmI
>
> In the second, we s
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
> > wrote:
> > (snip)
> > > Now if we suppose this is what happens, and the 'rich inner
> > > life'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
>> wrote:
>> (snip)
>>> Now if we suppose this is what happens, and the 'rich inner
>>> life' of experience goes by
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
> > wrote:
> > (snip)
> > > Now if we suppose this is what happens, and the 'rich inner
> > > life' of exper
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
> wrote:
> (snip)
> > Now if we suppose this is what happens, and the 'rich inner
> > life' of experience goes by the wayside, what does this mean
> > in terms of the h
So? Are you taking it literally card baby?
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:52 PM, card wrote:
> **
>
>
>
> kRtaarthaM prati *naSTam* apy *anaSTaM *tad-anya-saadhaaraNatvaat!
>
> II 22
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
> >
> > Oh no Grandpa Xeno - this is so retarded,
kRtaarthaM prati naSTam apy anaSTaM tad-anya-saadhaaraNatvaat! II 22
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
>
> Oh no Grandpa Xeno - this is so retarded, that "rich inner life"
disappears
> in Unity.
>
> This really nails it - you are one of the most dangerous, delusional
>
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius <
anartax...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula
> wrote:
> >
> > No Xeno - no alcohol, sex - no woman, not 72 virgins, no drug, no LSD can
> > create the beauty and richness of inner life that
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
>
> No Xeno - no alcohol, sex - no woman, not 72 virgins, no drug, no LSD can
> create the beauty and richness of inner life that Unity creates - you and
> Adyashanti are in a pseudo-Buddhist, delusional, no-self fantasy.
>
>
>
> On Fr
Thank you! This is very clear. I've had no formal training
in philosophy, so when I encounter technical terms, I tend
to assume they have a much more complicated meaning than
I'd be able to grasp. But in my experience it often turns
out that the ordinary meaning is at least approximately
close eno
Thank you, this is good dear Judy.
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, authfriend wrote:
> **
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
> wrote:
> (snip)
>
> > Now if we suppose this is what happens, and the 'rich inner
> > life' of experience goes by the wayside, wha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
wrote:
(snip)
> Now if we suppose this is what happens, and the 'rich inner
> life' of experience goes by the wayside, what does this mean
> in terms of the hard problem?
Nothing, because it doesn't "go by the wayside"--it can't,
or
No Xeno - no alcohol, sex - no woman, not 72 virgins, no drug, no LSD can
create the beauty and richness of inner life that Unity creates - you and
Adyashanti are in a pseudo-Buddhist, delusional, no-self fantasy.
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
> Oh no Grandpa Xeno - thi
Oh no Grandpa Xeno - this is so retarded, that "rich inner life" disappears
in Unity.
This really nails it - you are one of the most dangerous, delusional
posters on FFL. Right now even Curtis's dishonesty and Barry's stunted-
ness is looking real beautiful, honest and authentic to me now.
No you
CHALMERS:
'It is undeniable that some organisms are subjects
of experience. But the question of how it is that
these systems are subjects of experience is perplexing.
Why is it that when our cognitive systems engage in
visual and auditory information-processing, we have
visual or au
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
wrote:
> Question for you: In the paragraph from "Philosophy Always
> Buries Its Undertakers" that begins "We are also told that
> physics mishandles time," what does the locution "abstracts
> from" mean? And in the post "Why Do We Need Phi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
wrote:
> Did you read David Albert's review of Krauss's "Universe
> from Nothing" in the NY Times? It's a thing of beauty:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/a-universe-
from-nothing-by-lawrence-m-krauss.html
>
> http://tinyu
ientists and anyone who thinks that objectivity
is the ultimate and therefore most reliable reality. But as I sit here
writing this, I am this subjectivity:Â awareness exists. Â Â
>
>
>
>
>
> From: authfriend
> To: FairfieldLife@yah
most reliable reality. But as I sit
here writing this, I am this subjectivity: awareness exists.
From: authfriend
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another Voice in the Argument
Most Advaita, as presented, is contaminated by the suppositions of yoga.
This has been true since a 15th century Shankaracharya fused/confused
the practices.
The best intro to authentic advaita understanding/realization is here:
http://www.shiningworld.com/top/images/stories/pub-pdfs/Articles/%2
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sjn99YTh4U
>
> Oh, yes - one of the classics.
One of my favorite songs of the period. I cracked up
when I read MP's post about it.
> Th
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote:
>
> Xeno,
>
> I was expecting to be blown away by "discovered complexity I knew not of,"
> but strangely, the talk was "lite," and I, well, sue me, but I kinda felt
> smugly sorry for Searle. As wonderful as his "sermon" was, it seemed
>
what would recommend as a good list of books re Advaita? I did find this list
Thanks
http://www.amazon.com/Top-20-books-on-Advaita/lm/RYMWQB12Z8DTI
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote:
>
> Xeno,
>
> I was expecting to be blown away by "discovered complexity I knew not of,"
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sjn99YTh4U
Oh, yes - one of the classics.
This zombie issue is an interesting one, eh? Xeno posted an
objection from Dennett, but I couldn't really follow his
thinking. It felt a bit like bluster.
I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sjn99YTh4U
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
> > wrote:
> >
> > > John Searle at CERN (TEDxTalks)
> > >
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
> wrote:
>
> > John Searle at CERN (TEDxTalks)
> > http://youtu.be/j_OPQgPIdKg
> > [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j_OPQgPIdKg ]
>
> Searle, Denn
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
wrote:
> John Searle at CERN (TEDxTalks)
> http://youtu.be/j_OPQgPIdKg
> [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j_OPQgPIdKg ]
Searle, Dennet & Zombies:
http://goo.gl/K6NsO
http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.co
Xeno,
I was expecting to be blown away by "discovered complexity I knew not of," but
strangely, the talk was "lite," and I, well, sue me, but I kinda felt smugly
sorry for Searle. As wonderful as his "sermon" was, it seemed strangely hollow
-- not shallow -- but hollow. It seemed absent the "
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