Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
There are over 1500 FFL members who are good at expressing their experience of silence on this board. :-D On 01/22/2014 11:29 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > */But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have > > on a daily basis. /* > > Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? > > Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D */Interestingly, teachers in the past have never shirked from the basically impossible task of trying to express silence. Some have done it quite eloquently, like the Zen masters and poets of Japan, who managed to turn the subjective experience of silence into high art. /* > Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk > about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local > political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football.. */Perhaps they'd rather not even try, out of fear of not being able to convey their experience in a way that could touch another human being and possibly inspire them. /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Yeah. Eventually the distinction between spiritual and not-spiritual just goes away. But you do have to pay some attention to what you do because nature does what it does. For example, walking behind a horse might inspire a little more caution than usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Precisely, this is the point I am trying to make. The point being that "spiritual" experiences do not stand alone or isolated. They are not separate from the rest of what goes on in my day. Maybe I am the only one here who feels this. What would that mean? Perhaps when one tries to explain what one feels it is impossible to do so in words or in a manner that anyone else can understand. It is all just experience, it is all miraculous (for me), experiences are not defined in my mind as either spiritual or not. Some here seem to think spiritual has to mean things like: great bliss, effortlessness, feeling energy from being in the presence of 'saints' or from meditational practices, feeling detached and unmoved by activity, experiencing that one is part of everything else etc. etc. These things aren't spiritual, they're just stuff happening. If you can't be moved, amazed and blown away by the the seemingly simplest thing then you aren't "getting it". And reading about this stuff in books is a piss poor way to live it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
FWIW, Thomas's "awakening" happened only three months before he died at the age of 49, so he didn't get much chance to enjoy it. << Xeno, as usual all I can do is say thank you for this post; for the story of St. Thomas >>
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Note that Barry, um, prefers not to address the issue of writing about
spiritual experiences as a contest with "winners" and "losers," instead
characterizing my presentation of what he himself has stated as an "attack."
But if you read what I wrote below, you'll see that I said nothing negative
about his position, nor did I criticize it. I simply stated his position and
asked for others' opinions of it.
So why is he so upset? Why is he so afraid of what others might think of him
that he has to try to distract attention from the issue of his own position by
attacking me?
I think what particularly galls him is that I've never felt the need to be
able to write "creatively," about spiritual experiences or anything else. Nor
have I ever felt that makes me a lesser person than Barry. I have plenty of
other skills and abilities, including many that Barry lacks. I'm happy with
those. It almost seems as if Barry is so intimidated by my skills that he has
to make this huge deal of a skill that he has (more or less) and that I lack,
in order to feel better about himself and exalt his own self-image in the eyes
of others.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
Every word written as Yet Another Attack, Yet Another Attempt To Entice Others
On This Forum To Attack Barry ("we all *should*, actually"), and Yet Another
Excuse for why she's terrified to ever try to write creatively. This is what
being a long-term editor *does* to a person. Either that, or what being a
long-term TMer *does* to a person. :-)
Then again, maybe it's just living in New Jersey. :-)
Wouldn't it have been easier to overcome her fears and Just Do It?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>
> I find it fascinating--we all should, actually--that Barry thinks of writing
> about spiritual experiences on FFL in terms of a contest with "winners" and
> "losers," and believes that such posts should be subject to critiques by the
> group.
>
> I'd be interested to know if anyone here feels encouraged by this approach to
> post their spiritual experiences.
>
> I'd also be interested to know if anyone here believes they are competent to
> critique such posts (see Barry's three criteria for judgment below).
>
>
>
> And the simple reason is ego, and ego-protectiveness, the very qualities that
> *prohibit* and *block* both the having of and the expression of spiritual
> experience.
>
> If Judy were to declare some experience she once had "spiritual," she'd open
> herself up to people like herself -- "editors." These strangers get to decide
> whether 1) the thing she describes could be described by even one fellow
> human being as "spiritual," 2) whether she did a good (or even competent) job
> of describing the experience, and 3) whether any of it was worth reading in
> the first place. Not gonna happen. She's got too much invested in her
> imaginary "image" to ever risk that.
>
> Meanwhile, those of us with no real "image" to protect can write Whatever The
> Fuck We Want.
>
> All in all, I think we win. :-)
>
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Xeno, as usual all I can do is say thank you for this post; for the story of St. Thomas; for using the word peccadilloes so pertinently; for conveying how even wood and smog are topics and even realities that are suffused with what I'm calling Beingness. Stay warm... It was minus 5 when I went to the Dome and 4 above when I got out. Amazing what a difference 9 degrees can make! On Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:32 AM, "anartaxius@..." wrote: I have a fireplace, and sometimes burn wood, but unless a fireplace designed for heating a room is installed, it does not make much difference to the heating bill. In addition I have to buy wood. There are lots of trees around but they are either on other's property, in parks, or in open space set aside by conservation groups. Smog is not a problem where I live. The disconnexion between the me and the world is always an interesting experience, sometimes like the Berlin Wall, but some day it should go. When it went for me, I did not realise what had happened for decades, I thought that I was basically back to square one when all experiences evaporated. My attention turned outward and for most of that period, my interest in reading and engaging in 'spiritual' things, etc., pretty much vanished. And then one day I realised that gap between inner and outer really was never there in the first place, and it took another five or so years to get comfortable with that understanding. The 'understanding' is just an overlay on experience that eventually lets the mind feel settled in what's going on. Because of my particular upbringing and entry in spirituality was very tangential to religion, my experiences tended to not be coloured with religious overtones. For example if you read what Buck is writing (or copying) these days, you can see his understanding is steeped in religious soup. But, in fact, spiritual experience is ultimately undefined, and so even as M said, you can see it in the light of anything, and ones' individual preferences and peccadilloes will shape the understanding that evolves. An understanding has to evolve to feel settled in this because whatever understanding one has prior to this is blown out of the water. Advice from others is helpful, but basically you are on your own in the end stages and it is up to you how you co-ordinate your experience and understanding, for now you have realised what the illusion you were operating under was, what the hoax was. Precisely, this is the point I am trying to make. The point being that "spiritual" experiences do not stand alone or isolated. They are not separate from the rest of what goes on in my day. Maybe I am the only one here who feels this. What would that mean? Perhaps when one tries to explain what one feels it is impossible to do so in words or in a manner that anyone else can understand. It is all just experience, it is all miraculous (for me), experiences are not defined in my mind as either spiritual or not. Some here seem to think spiritual has to mean things like: great bliss, effortlessness, feeling energy from being in the presence of 'saints' or from meditational practices, feeling detached and unmoved by activity, experiencing that one is part of everything else etc. etc. These things aren't spiritual, they're just stuff happening. If you can't be moved, amazed and blown away by the the seemingly simplest thing then you aren't "getting it". And reading about this stuff in books is a piss poor way to live it. Here (from Wikipedia) is the tale of the awakening of St. Thomas, the 'doctor' of the Catholic Church: In 1272 Thomas took leave from the University of Paris when the Dominicans from his home province called upon him to establish a studium generale wherever he liked and staff it as he pleased. He chose to establish the institution in Naples, and moved there to take his post as regent master. He took his time at Naples to work on the third part of the Summa while giving lectures on various religious topics. On 6 December 1273 at the Dominican convent of Naples in the Chapel of Saint Nicholas after Matins Thomas lingered and was seen by the sacristan Domenic of Caserta to be levitating in prayer with tears before an icon of the crucified Christ. Christ said to Thomas, "You have written well of me, Thomas. What reward would you have for your labor?" Thomas responded, "Nothing but you, Lord." After this exchange something happened, but Thomas never spoke of it or wrote it down. Because of what he saw, he abandoned his routine and refused to dictate to his socius Reginald of Piperno. When Reginald begged him to get back to work, Thomas replied: "Reginald, I cannot, because all that I have written seems like straw to me" (mihi videtur ut palea). What exactly triggered Thomas's change in behavior is believed by Catholics to have been some kind of supernatural
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Every word written as Yet Another Attack, Yet Another Attempt To Entice
Others On This Forum To Attack Barry ("we all *should*, actually"), and
Yet Another Excuse for why she's terrified to ever try to write
creatively. This is what being a long-term editor *does* to a person.
Either that, or what being a long-term TMer *does* to a person. :-)
Then again, maybe it's just living in New Jersey. :-)
Wouldn't it have been easier to overcome her fears and Just Do It?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>
> I find it fascinating--we all should, actually--that Barry thinks of
writing about spiritual experiences on FFL in terms of a contest with
"winners" and "losers," and believes that such posts should be subject
to critiques by the group.
>
> I'd be interested to know if anyone here feels encouraged by this
approach to post their spiritual experiences.
>
> I'd also be interested to know if anyone here believes they are
competent to critique such posts (see Barry's three criteria for
judgment below).
>
>
>
> And the simple reason is ego, and ego-protectiveness, the very
qualities that *prohibit* and *block* both the having of and the
expression of spiritual experience.
>
> If Judy were to declare some experience she once had "spiritual,"
she'd open herself up to people like herself -- "editors." These
strangers get to decide whether 1) the thing she describes could be
described by even one fellow human being as "spiritual," 2) whether she
did a good (or even competent) job of describing the experience, and 3)
whether any of it was worth reading in the first place. Not gonna
happen. She's got too much invested in her imaginary "image" to ever
risk that.
>
> Meanwhile, those of us with no real "image" to protect can write
Whatever The Fuck We Want.
>
> All in all, I think we win. :-)
>
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
I find it fascinating--we all should, actually--that Barry thinks of writing about spiritual experiences on FFL in terms of a contest with "winners" and "losers," and believes that such posts should be subject to critiques by the group. I'd be interested to know if anyone here feels encouraged by this approach to post their spiritual experiences. I'd also be interested to know if anyone here believes they are competent to critique such posts (see Barry's three criteria for judgment below). And the simple reason is ego, and ego-protectiveness, the very qualities that *prohibit* and *block* both the having of and the expression of spiritual experience. If Judy were to declare some experience she once had "spiritual," she'd open herself up to people like herself -- "editors." These strangers get to decide whether 1) the thing she describes could be described by even one fellow human being as "spiritual," 2) whether she did a good (or even competent) job of describing the experience, and 3) whether any of it was worth reading in the first place. Not gonna happen. She's got too much invested in her imaginary "image" to ever risk that. Meanwhile, those of us with no real "image" to protect can write Whatever The Fuck We Want. All in all, I think we win. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Xeno, as usual all I can do is say thank you for this post; for the story of St. Thomas; for using the word peccadilloes so pertinently; for conveying how even wood and smog are topics and even realities that are suffused with what I'm calling Beingness. Stay warm... It was minus 5 when I went to the Dome and 4 above when I got out. Amazing what a difference 9 degrees can make! On Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:32 AM, "anartax...@yahoo.com" wrote: I have a fireplace, and sometimes burn wood, but unless a fireplace designed for heating a room is installed, it does not make much difference to the heating bill. In addition I have to buy wood. There are lots of trees around but they are either on other's property, in parks, or in open space set aside by conservation groups. Smog is not a problem where I live. The disconnexion between the me and the world is always an interesting experience, sometimes like the Berlin Wall, but some day it should go. When it went for me, I did not realise what had happened for decades, I thought that I was basically back to square one when all experiences evaporated. My attention turned outward and for most of that period, my interest in reading and engaging in 'spiritual' things, etc., pretty much vanished. And then one day I realised that gap between inner and outer really was never there in the first place, and it took another five or so years to get comfortable with that understanding. The 'understanding' is just an overlay on experience that eventually lets the mind feel settled in what's going on. Because of my particular upbringing and entry in spirituality was very tangential to religion, my experiences tended to not be coloured with religious overtones. For example if you read what Buck is writing (or copying) these days, you can see his understanding is steeped in religious soup. But, in fact, spiritual experience is ultimately undefined, and so even as M said, you can see it in the light of anything, and ones' individual preferences and peccadilloes will shape the understanding that evolves. An understanding has to evolve to feel settled in this because whatever understanding one has prior to this is blown out of the water. Advice from others is helpful, but basically you are on your own in the end stages and it is up to you how you co-ordinate your experience and understanding, for now you have realised what the illusion you were operating under was, what the hoax was. Here (from Wikipedia) is the tale of the awakening of St. Thomas, the 'doctor' of the Catholic Church: In 1272 Thomas took leave from the University of Paris when the Dominicans from his home province called upon him to establish a studium generale wherever he liked and staff it as he pleased. He chose to establish the institution in Naples, and moved there to take his post as regent master. He took his time at Naples to work on the third part of the Summa while giving lectures on various religious topics. On 6 December 1273 at the Dominican convent of Naples in the Chapel of Saint Nicholas after Matins Thomas lingered and was seen by the sacristan Domenic of Caserta to be levitating in prayer with tears before an icon of the crucified Christ. Christ said to Thomas, "You have written well of me, Thomas. What reward would you have for your labor?" Thomas responded, "Nothing but you, Lord." After this exchange something happened, but Thomas never spoke of it or wrote it down. Because of what he saw, he abandoned his routine and refused to dictate to his socius Reginald of Piperno. When Reginald begged him to get back to work, Thomas replied: "Reginald, I cannot, because all that I have written seems like straw to me" (mihi videtur ut palea). What exactly triggered Thomas's change in behavior is believed by Catholics to have been some kind of supernatural experience of God. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Do you have "Spare the Air" days back there? We get them here in California and now they are irritating people because they can't burn in their fireplace to make up for the unusually cold weather. If they do burn then they are subject to a fine. A little wind usually calls it off though. Thing is I find it hard to tell people that my experiences these days is "the world is out there" and somehow disconnected from "me." This is not a dis-associative situation because when I need to engage with the world there is no problem. I call "localization on demand." Otherwise it is line on water and it would be so cool if everyone else at least experienced this. On 01/22/2014 02:50 PM, anartaxius@... wrote: > >Bhairitu wrote: >'There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and >after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water."' >> >> >>'I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no >>longer work and the unenlightened materialisti
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Nice rap, but I particularly like "The 'understanding' is just an overlay on experience that eventually lets the mind feel settled in what's going on." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > I have a fireplace, and sometimes burn wood, but unless a fireplace designed for heating a room is installed, it does not make much difference to the heating bill. In addition I have to buy wood. There are lots of trees around but they are either on other's property, in parks, or in open space set aside by conservation groups. Smog is not a problem where I live. > > The disconnexion between the me and the world is always an interesting experience, sometimes like the Berlin Wall, but some day it should go. When it went for me, I did not realise what had happened for decades, I thought that I was basically back to square one when all experiences evaporated. My attention turned outward and for most of that period, my interest in reading and engaging in 'spiritual' things, etc., pretty much vanished. And then one day I realised that gap between inner and outer really was never there in the first place, and it took another five or so years to get comfortable with that understanding. > > The 'understanding' is just an overlay on experience that eventually lets the mind feel settled in what's going on. Because of my particular upbringing and entry in spirituality was very tangential to religion, my experiences tended to not be coloured with religious overtones. For example if you read what Buck is writing (or copying) these days, you can see his understanding is steeped in religious soup. But, in fact, spiritual experience is ultimately undefined, and so even as M said, you can see it in the light of anything, and ones' individual preferences and peccadilloes will shape the understanding that evolves. An understanding has to evolve to feel settled in this because whatever understanding one has prior to this is blown out of the water. Advice from others is helpful, but basically you are on your own in the end stages and it is up to you how you co-ordinate your experience and understanding, for now you have realised what the illusion you were operating under was, what the hoax was. > > Here (from Wikipedia) is the tale of the awakening of St. Thomas, the 'doctor' of the Catholic Church: > > In 1272 Thomas took leave from the University of Paris when the Dominicans from his home province called upon him to establish a studium generale wherever he liked and staff it as he pleased. He chose to establish the institution in Naples, and moved there to take his post as regent master. He took his time at Naples to work on the third part of the Summa while giving lectures on various religious topics. On 6 December 1273 at the Dominican convent of Naples in the Chapel of Saint Nicholas after Matins Thomas lingered and was seen by the sacristan Domenic of Caserta to be levitating in prayer with tears before an icon of the crucified Christ. Christ said to Thomas, "You have written well of me, Thomas. What reward would you have for your labor?" Thomas responded, "Nothing but you, Lord." After this exchange something happened, but Thomas never spoke of it or wrote it down. Because of what he saw, he abandoned his routine and refused to dictate to his socius Reginald of Piperno. When Reginald begged him to get back to work, Thomas replied: "Reginald, I cannot, because all that I have written seems like straw to me" (mihi videtur ut palea). What exactly triggered Thomas's change in behavior is believed by Catholics to have been some kind of supernatural experience of God. > > > ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@ wrote: > > Do you have "Spare the Air" days back there? We get them here in California and now they are irritating people because they can't burn in their fireplace to make up for the unusually cold weather. If they do burn then they are subject to a fine. A little wind usually calls it off though. > > Thing is I find it hard to tell people that my experiences these days is "the world is out there" and somehow disconnected from "me." This is not a dis-associative situation because when I need to engage with the world there is no problem. I call "localization on demand." Otherwise it is line on water and it would be so cool if everyone else at least experienced this. > > On 01/22/2014 02:50 PM, anartaxius@ mailto:anartaxius@ wrote: > >Bhairitu wrote: > > 'There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water."' > > 'I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no longer work and the unenlightened materialistic elite are trying to hold on to these antiquated systems. Time for them to move over and get out of the way since they are a real drag on society. Certainly having a quiet platform of silence helps to observe these apocalyptic events and even laugh them off (or laugh at the perpetrators
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
I have a fireplace, and sometimes burn wood, but unless a fireplace designed for heating a room is installed, it does not make much difference to the heating bill. In addition I have to buy wood. There are lots of trees around but they are either on other's property, in parks, or in open space set aside by conservation groups. Smog is not a problem where I live. The disconnexion between the me and the world is always an interesting experience, sometimes like the Berlin Wall, but some day it should go. When it went for me, I did not realise what had happened for decades, I thought that I was basically back to square one when all experiences evaporated. My attention turned outward and for most of that period, my interest in reading and engaging in 'spiritual' things, etc., pretty much vanished. And then one day I realised that gap between inner and outer really was never there in the first place, and it took another five or so years to get comfortable with that understanding. The 'understanding' is just an overlay on experience that eventually lets the mind feel settled in what's going on. Because of my particular upbringing and entry in spirituality was very tangential to religion, my experiences tended to not be coloured with religious overtones. For example if you read what Buck is writing (or copying) these days, you can see his understanding is steeped in religious soup. But, in fact, spiritual experience is ultimately undefined, and so even as M said, you can see it in the light of anything, and ones' individual preferences and peccadilloes will shape the understanding that evolves. An understanding has to evolve to feel settled in this because whatever understanding one has prior to this is blown out of the water. Advice from others is helpful, but basically you are on your own in the end stages and it is up to you how you co-ordinate your experience and understanding, for now you have realised what the illusion you were operating under was, what the hoax was. Here (from Wikipedia) is the tale of the awakening of St. Thomas, the 'doctor' of the Catholic Church: In 1272 Thomas took leave from the University of Paris when the Dominicans from his home province called upon him to establish a studium generale wherever he liked and staff it as he pleased. He chose to establish the institution in Naples, and moved there to take his post as regent master. He took his time at Naples to work on the third part of the Summa while giving lectures on various religious topics. On 6 December 1273 at the Dominican convent of Naples in the Chapel of Saint Nicholas after Matins Thomas lingered and was seen by the sacristan Domenic of Caserta to be levitating in prayer with tears before an icon of the crucified Christ. Christ said to Thomas, "You have written well of me, Thomas. What reward would you have for your labor?" Thomas responded, "Nothing but you, Lord." After this exchange something happened, but Thomas never spoke of it or wrote it down. Because of what he saw, he abandoned his routine and refused to dictate to his socius Reginald of Piperno. When Reginald begged him to get back to work, Thomas replied: "Reginald, I cannot, because all that I have written seems like straw to me" (mihi videtur ut palea). What exactly triggered Thomas's change in behavior is believed by Catholics to have been some kind of supernatural experience of God. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Do you have "Spare the Air" days back there? We get them here in California and now they are irritating people because they can't burn in their fireplace to make up for the unusually cold weather. If they do burn then they are subject to a fine. A little wind usually calls it off though. Thing is I find it hard to tell people that my experiences these days is "the world is out there" and somehow disconnected from "me." This is not a dis-associative situation because when I need to engage with the world there is no problem. I call "localization on demand." Otherwise it is line on water and it would be so cool if everyone else at least experienced this. On 01/22/2014 02:50 PM, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... wrote: Bhairitu wrote: 'There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water."' 'I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no longer work and the unenlightened materialistic elite are trying to hold on to these antiquated systems. Time for them to move over and get out of the way since they are a real drag on society. Certainly having a quiet platform of silence helps to observe these apocalyptic events and even laugh them off (or laugh at the perpetrators). I find that some of the political forums I'm on the posters really get hung up in the minutia missing the forest for the trees. Folks here, not s
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
I think I may have to create a macro response if Xeno keeps stalking me and trying to get me to engage with him: If anyone (except Xeno) wants a detailed refutation of Xeno's dishonest trolling, just let me know. Of course I get it. It is just game with me though. After all, initially you tried to weasel out of not responding, but then seem to think the better of it. And referring to me in the third person doesn't really disguise intent either. I regard Barry as an independent agent. If our responses seem similar, perhaps you might look closer to home for a reason why that might be so. On another note, a description of your spiritual experiences would be a welcome change on this forum. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Amazing. He still doesn't get it. Somebody might think about suggesting that he ask another person to pose the question he did. Then I'll explain why the question is disingenuous and hostile, just like those he asked me on Sunday (which of course he will disingenuously deny). No surprise, of course, that Xeno has taken Barry's side and decided to help him "stalk" me. What a wonderfully spiritual dude, eh? << You said you would not have a discussion with me, but did attempt to respond by making a 'comment', once. It is not necessary to have a discussion with me to provide data; all you have to do is post references and remove any content that I wrote, borrowed, or stole. I have been attempting to not interact with you so as not to incite responses. But if you post information rather than merely saying it exists, it would be easier for people to find it, unless it does not exist, then obviously posting a passing reference to it makes it difficult to discover it does not exist, and thus prove a lie. Unlike Barry, I do read *some* of the posts you write, but not all. I do not recall you ever talking about spiritual experiences, though that does not mean they do not exist on FFL. What you need is an ally to comment on my post and you can reply to her. I am overjoyed you have not changed your mind, for it normally simplifies life for me here, removing a deeply dark presence from my path. >>
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Of course I get it. It is just game with me though. After all, initially you tried to weasel out of not responding, but then seem to think the better of it. And referring to me in the third person doesn't really disguise intent either. I regard Barry as an independent agent. If our responses seem similar, perhaps you might look closer to home for a reason why that might be so. On another note, a description of your spiritual experiences would be a welcome change on this forum. Ain't NEVER gonna happen. And the simple reason is ego, and ego-protectiveness, the very qualities that *prohibit* and *block* both the having of and the expression of spiritual experience. If Judy were to declare some experience she once had "spiritual," she'd open herself up to people like herself -- "editors." These strangers get to decide whether 1) the thing she describes could be described by even one fellow human being as "spiritual," 2) whether she did a good (or even competent) job of describing the experience, and 3) whether any of it was worth reading in the first place. Not gonna happen. She's got too much invested in her imaginary "image" to ever risk that. Meanwhile, those of us with no real "image" to protect can write Whatever The Fuck We Want. All in all, I think we win. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Of course I get it. It is just game with me though. After all, initially you tried to weasel out of not responding, but then seem to think the better of it. And referring to me in the third person doesn't really disguise intent either. I regard Barry as an independent agent. If our responses seem similar, perhaps you might look closer to home for a reason why that might be so. On another note, a description of your spiritual experiences would be a welcome change on this forum. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Amazing. He still doesn't get it. Somebody might think about suggesting that he ask another person to pose the question he did. Then I'll explain why the question is disingenuous and hostile, just like those he asked me on Sunday (which of course he will disingenuously deny). No surprise, of course, that Xeno has taken Barry's side and decided to help him "stalk" me. What a wonderfully spiritual dude, eh? << You said you would not have a discussion with me, but did attempt to respond by making a 'comment', once. It is not necessary to have a discussion with me to provide data; all you have to do is post references and remove any content that I wrote, borrowed, or stole. I have been attempting to not interact with you so as not to incite responses. But if you post information rather than merely saying it exists, it would be easier for people to find it, unless it does not exist, then obviously posting a passing reference to it makes it difficult to discover it does not exist, and thus prove a lie. Unlike Barry, I do read *some* of the posts you write, but not all. I do not recall you ever talking about spiritual experiences, though that does not mean they do not exist on FFL. What you need is an ally to comment on my post and you can reply to her. I am overjoyed you have not changed your mind, for it normally simplifies life for me here, removing a deeply dark presence from my path. >>
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@ wrote: > > > > Barry, sweetie-poops, I've actually written quite a bit here about my > > spiritual experiences. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius wrote: > > Post numbers? (So we can read them) You must have recalled some of these > things you wrote and about when you wrote them. You're not likely to get an answer, Xeno, because Judy can't come up with any posts in which she actually discussed her "spiritual experiences." Fortunately I saved a few excerpts from the only post in which I remember her even trying (#362163) before she deleted it: Small rewrite of Barry's "spiritual post" to reflect a closer version of reality: > It was a good day today. Like any other day, I won every > argument I started, and proved how much smarter I was > than everyone else. I stalked Judy again and made her > feel bad enough to respond to me, at which point I > declared victory and stalked her some more. I managed > to sneak references to many of the people who left the > forum because they were no match for me (like Robin and > Carol and Ravi and I've probably even caused Emily to take a poweder) > into conversations that had nothing to them...that was > satisfying. > > A couple of people tried to post something I knew nothing > about, so of course I spent a few minutes on Google and > Wikipedia so that I could 'correct' them and show everyone > that I knew more about it than they did. Then I spent some > time stroking the enemies of my enemies and praising them > so they'll remain my friends. I don't really like them much, > but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to 'win' around here. > Finally, I called Judy a LIAR a bunch of times, even though > she hadn't posted anything today. That's another one of those > things that ya just gotta do. > > So yes, it was a good day. Waves and waves of bliss are > flowing over me as I think back on all I accomplished. I > think I'll celebrate by doing puja -- chanting Joni Mitchell songs > in front of my photo of Bevan while masturbating using the > vibrator I've painted to look like him. A perfect ending to a > perfect day. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
I win. Hands down. You're not likely to get an answer, Xeno, because Judy can't come up with any posts in which she actually discussed her "spiritual experiences." Fortunately I saved a few excerpts from the only post in which I remember her even trying (#362163) before she deleted it: > It was a good day today. Like any other day, I won every > argument I started, and proved how much smarter I was > than everyone else. I stalked Share again and made her > feel bad enough to respond to me, at which point I > declared victory and stalked her some more. I managed > to sneak references to many of the people who left the > forum because they were no match for me (like Vaj and > Curtis and Sal Sunshine and Ruth and Andrew Skolnick) > into conversations that had nothing to them...that was > satisfying. > > A couple of people tried to post something I knew nothing > about, so of course I spent a few minutes on Google and > Wikipedia so that I could 'correct' them and show everyone > that I knew more about it than they did. Then I spent some > time stroking the enemies of my enemies and praising them > so they'll remain my friends. I don't really like them much, > but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to 'win' around here. > Finally, I called Barry a LIAR a bunch of times, even though > he hadn't posted anything today. That's another one of those > things that ya just gotta do. > > So yes, it was a good day. Waves and waves of bliss are > flowing over me as I think back on all I accomplished. I > think I'll celebrate by doing puja -- chanting Lady Gaga songs > in front of my photo of Robin while masturbating using the > vibrator I've painted to look like him. A perfect ending to a > perfect day. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
> ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@ wrote: > > > > Barry, sweetie-poops, I've actually written quite a bit here about my spiritual experiences. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius wrote: > > Post numbers? (So we can read them) You must have recalled some of these things you wrote and about when you wrote them. You're not likely to get an answer, Xeno, because Judy can't come up with any posts in which she actually discussed her "spiritual experiences." Fortunately I saved a few excerpts from the only post in which I remember her even trying (#362163) before she deleted it: > It was a good day today. Like any other day, I won every > argument I started, and proved how much smarter I was > than everyone else. I stalked Share again and made her > feel bad enough to respond to me, at which point I > declared victory and stalked her some more. I managed > to sneak references to many of the people who left the > forum because they were no match for me (like Vaj and > Curtis and Sal Sunshine and Ruth and Andrew Skolnick) > into conversations that had nothing to them...that was > satisfying. > > A couple of people tried to post something I knew nothing > about, so of course I spent a few minutes on Google and > Wikipedia so that I could 'correct' them and show everyone > that I knew more about it than they did. Then I spent some > time stroking the enemies of my enemies and praising them > so they'll remain my friends. I don't really like them much, > but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to 'win' around here. > Finally, I called Barry a LIAR a bunch of times, even though > he hadn't posted anything today. That's another one of those > things that ya just gotta do. > > So yes, it was a good day. Waves and waves of bliss are > flowing over me as I think back on all I accomplished. I > think I'll celebrate by doing puja -- chanting Lady Gaga songs > in front of my photo of Robin while masturbating using the > vibrator I've painted to look like him. A perfect ending to a > perfect day. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Amazing. He still doesn't get it. Somebody might think about suggesting that he ask another person to pose the question he did. Then I'll explain why the question is disingenuous and hostile, just like those he asked me on Sunday (which of course he will disingenuously deny). No surprise, of course, that Xeno has taken Barry's side and decided to help him "stalk" me. What a wonderfully spiritual dude, eh? This whole question of "spiritual experiences" has me stumped. I have no idea what this is all about. Is it a contest? Is it relevant to anything? Can one evaluate a "spiritual experience" any better than they can evaluate any other experience someone has? Is "spiritual" content any different than what comprises the rest of life? I certainly don't think so. In my experience, it all falls into the category of glorious, amazing, incredible, miraculous. Really, it does. Is Rama's purported lift off any different than the miracle of being able to digest food? Nope, not for me. If Barry wants a pissing contest called "Who has had the most spiritual experiences?" then he obviously doesn't have the grace, the fortune in his life to be able to lump it all into one big lovely entity called "having a human body and being on this Earth at this time in this way". My life is not compartmentalized nor do I categorize what I see and do and think (or not think) and I certainly don't dwell on whether I had a "spiritual" moment or not. It's downright laughable. << You said you would not have a discussion with me, but did attempt to respond by making a 'comment', once. It is not necessary to have a discussion with me to provide data; all you have to do is post references and remove any content that I wrote, borrowed, or stole. I have been attempting to not interact with you so as not to incite responses. But if you post information rather than merely saying it exists, it would be easier for people to find it, unless it does not exist, then obviously posting a passing reference to it makes it difficult to discover it does not exist, and thus prove a lie. Unlike Barry, I do read *some* of the posts you write, but not all. I do not recall you ever talking about spiritual experiences, though that does not mean they do not exist on FFL. What you need is an ally to comment on my post and you can reply to her. I am overjoyed you have not changed your mind, for it normally simplifies life for me here, removing a deeply dark presence from my path. >>
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
On 1/22/2014 1:39 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: BTW, Barry, how's your novel about the Cathars coming along? > Barry doesn't want to talk about the Cathars because he is afraid someone might bring up the Gnostics. Hopefully Barry learned a few things about the Cathars from Kater and Klaus Schilling. Apparently Barry didn't realize that the Cathars are related to the Bogumils which are are derived from the Paulicans; the Paulicans from Manicheans and Manicheans from Gnostics. Thus Cathars are derived from Gnostics. Moggers can understand this simple fact, 'cletantra can't. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
I got such a good laugh out of the I am ignoring Buck part! On Wed, 1/22/14, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 22, 2014, 10:50 PM Bhairitu wrote:'There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water."' 'I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no longer work and the unenlightened materialistic elite are trying to hold on to these antiquated systems. Time for them to move over and get out of the way since they are a real drag on society. Certainly having a quiet platform of silence helps to observe these apocalyptic events and even laugh them off (or laugh at the perpetrators). I find that some of the political forums I'm on the posters really get hung up in the minutia missing the forest for the trees. Folks here, not so much. That in itself is a sign of evolution.'I am finding that I no longer seek spiritual experience, though I seek to find ways to understand what I am experiencing, and sometimes I have a desire for more information. Almost all my 'spiritual' experiences occured early on, in the years before I learned TM, and in a few years following that learning. Then things began to flatten out for long periods; in fact it often seemed like experience was sometimes going in reverse. But them the realisation came that it is not the experiences that were important in this seeking behaviour, it was the nature of experience itself and at that juncture, the seeking stopped. I just watched a science fiction movie on Netflix. Now I am in my office and there is a single lamp on a lampstand pointing at the ceiling. This is the only light source in my office that is on. Just light shining on the wall and ceiling, not very interesting as the plot of a movie, but it is just as fascinating as the movie. This seems to be simply because it is the nature of experience itself, it exists, it changes. It is a beautifully strange, unlocated silence that strings together these ordinary pearls of life. There is no longer any sense at all that there is something beyond this. In the beginning I imagined, based on what others told me, that spiritual life was transcendental, beyond the normal sphere of living. But as time has passed, that no longer holds. What I called transcendent in the beginning has become immanence, it is no longer something out of sight or mind. 'Transcendence' now sounds ludicrous and bizarre. It was, for a time a useful fiction, but it no longer means anything at all. If I am meditating or looking at the stack of fuel meter tickets on my desk (it has been uncommonly cold here this winter), it is pretty much the same thing. It was not the specific content that was going on that I was seeking all those years, it was just the plain fact that something was going on. It took decades to finally get this. All that intellectual filigree and nit picking about spiritual concepts and how this related to that was all a smoke screen for something much more obvious, that existence is, and that is that. End of question. Trying to describe this quality of experience is challenging because there is nothing extraordinary about it, and this is my second best shot at it. I wrote and hit enter, and the cursor was probably out of the box, and Neo trashed the whole thing I wrote. So this is an attempt to reclaim a previous inspiration, and it is like reheated food. A certain amount of caustion. I am going to cut and paste this into Neo from a text editor. I really do not have spiritual experiences any more. It's not boring, but for someone who is still looking for them, it might seem to be a rather austere way to experience life. If I feel tired, I am tired, sometimes I am blissful, and sometimes not. I am not looking to be happy or avoid happiness. I am not looking to be sad or avoid sadness. If it comes that way, that is what I experience. It is a peculiar quality to not anticipate things much at all. United States Federal and local state taxes are do, so I do have to think about future events, a certain amount of planning is required to get through a year, and then another year. But its not frantic, though I can imagine scenarios that could be frantic, such as economic collapse etc. As for chopping wood and carrying water, it's easier now. An electric pump brings water into the house, and there is some wood in the garage, but someone else chopped it (probably with a machine). So I just have to turn on the faucet, but
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Oh, you are so right, Share, it was Buck. My bad! Well, everything else I said about Barry's comments on that post is still on target. Sorry about that. << Judy, I've never written a spiritual essay. I think it was Buck who wrote that post but I'm going to check now. >>
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Amazing. He still doesn't get it. Somebody might think about suggesting that he ask another person to pose the question he did. Then I'll explain why the question is disingenuous and hostile, just like those he asked me on Sunday (which of course he will disingenuously deny). No surprise, of course, that Xeno has taken Barry's side and decided to help him "stalk" me. What a wonderfully spiritual dude, eh? << You said you would not have a discussion with me, but did attempt to respond by making a 'comment', once. It is not necessary to have a discussion with me to provide data; all you have to do is post references and remove any content that I wrote, borrowed, or stole. I have been attempting to not interact with you so as not to incite responses. But if you post information rather than merely saying it exists, it would be easier for people to find it, unless it does not exist, then obviously posting a passing reference to it makes it difficult to discover it does not exist, and thus prove a lie. Unlike Barry, I do read *some* of the posts you write, but not all. I do not recall you ever talking about spiritual experiences, though that does not mean they do not exist on FFL. What you need is an ally to comment on my post and you can reply to her. I am overjoyed you have not changed your mind, for it normally simplifies life for me here, removing a deeply dark presence from my path. >>
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Do you have "Spare the Air" days back there? We get them here in California and now they are irritating people because they can't burn in their fireplace to make up for the unusually cold weather. If they do burn then they are subject to a fine. A little wind usually calls it off though. Thing is I find it hard to tell people that my experiences these days is "the world is out there" and somehow disconnected from "me." This is not a dis-associative situation because when I need to engage with the world there is no problem. I call "localization on demand." Otherwise it is line on water and it would be so cool if everyone else *at least* experienced this. On 01/22/2014 02:50 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: Bhairitu wrote: 'There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water."' 'I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no longer work and the unenlightened materialistic elite are trying to hold on to these antiquated systems. Time for them to move over and get out of the way since they are a real drag on society. Certainly having a quiet platform of silence helps to observe these apocalyptic events and even laugh them off (or laugh at the perpetrators). I find that some of the political forums I'm on the posters really get hung up in the minutia missing the forest for the trees. Folks here, not so much. That in itself is a sign of evolution.' I am finding that I no longer seek spiritual experience, though I seek to find ways to understand what I am experiencing, and sometimes I have a desire for more information. Almost all my 'spiritual' experiences occured early on, in the years before I learned TM, and in a few years following that learning. Then things began to flatten out for long periods; in fact it often seemed like experience was sometimes going in reverse. But them the realisation came that it is not the experiences that were important in this seeking behaviour, it was the nature of experience itself and at that juncture, the seeking stopped. I just watched a science fiction movie on Netflix. Now I am in my office and there is a single lamp on a lampstand pointing at the ceiling. This is the only light source in my office that is on. Just light shining on the wall and ceiling, not very interesting as the plot of a movie, but it is just as fascinating as the movie. This seems to be simply because it is the nature of experience itself, it exists, it changes. It is a beautifully strange, unlocated silence that strings together these ordinary pearls of life. There is no longer any sense at all that there is something beyond this. In the beginning I imagined, based on what others told me, that spiritual life was transcendental, beyond the normal sphere of living. But as time has passed, that no longer holds. What I called transcendent in the beginning has become immanence, it is no longer something out of sight or mind. 'Transcendence' now sounds ludicrous and bizarre. It was, for a time a useful fiction, but it no longer means anything at all. If I am meditating or looking at the stack of fuel meter tickets on my desk (it has been uncommonly cold here this winter), it is pretty much the same thing. It was not the specific content that was going on that I was seeking all those years, it was just the plain fact that something was going on. It took decades to finally get this. All that intellectual filigree and nit picking about spiritual concepts and how this related to that was all a smoke screen for something much more obvious, that existence is, and that is that. End of question. Trying to describe this quality of experience is challenging because there is nothing extraordinary about it, and this is my second best shot at it. I wrote and hit enter, and the cursor was probably out of the box, and Neo trashed the whole thing I wrote. So this is an attempt to reclaim a previous inspiration, and it is like reheated food. A certain amount of caustion. I am going to cut and paste this into Neo from a text editor. I really do not have spiritual experiences any more. It's not boring, but for someone who is still looking for them, it might seem to be a rather austere way to experience life. If I feel tired, I am tired, sometimes I am blissful, and sometimes not. I am not looking to be happy or avoid happiness. I am not looking to be sad or avoid sadness. If it comes that way, that is what I experience. It is a peculiar quality to not anticipate things much at all. United States Federal and local state taxes are do, so I do have to think about future events, a certain amount of planning is required to get through a year, and then another year. But its not frantic, though I can imagine scenarios that could be frantic, such as economic collapse etc. As for chopping wood and carr
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
You said you would not have a discussion with me, but did attempt to respond by making a 'comment', once. It is not necessary to have a discussion with me to provide data; all you have to do is post references and remove any content that I wrote, borrowed, or stole. I have been attempting to not interact with you so as not to incite responses. But if you post information rather than merely saying it exists, it would be easier for people to find it, unless it does not exist, then obviously posting a passing reference to it makes it difficult to discover it does not exist, and thus prove a lie. Unlike Barry, I do read *some* of the posts you write, but not all. I do not recall you ever talking about spiritual experiences, though that does not mean they do not exist on FFL. What you need is an ally to comment on my post and you can reply to her. I am overjoyed you have not changed your mind, for it normally simplifies life for me here, removing a deeply dark presence from my path.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Does anyone recall my saying I had changed my mind about not talking to Xeno until he apologized for calling me a liar? No? I don't either. Wonder why he thinks I did. Post numbers? (So we can read them) You must have recalled some of these things you wrote and about when you wrote them. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Barry, sweetie-poops, I've actually written quite a bit here about my spiritual experiences. You're the guy who's squirming because I unmasked your pose of being interested in such experiences (with a lot of inadvertent help from you, actually). You can't un-post your, er, contributions to this thread, unfortunately. But as I say, keep going, by all means. The more people see of your hypocrisy and hatred, the better. > He has a real shitload of hatred and resentment he has to let loose. Projection, honey-bunch. I'm just enjoying watching you squirm. :-) *I*, after all, am not the person who has been unmasked as the person with the *least* actual spiritual experience of anyone on this forum. That's you. Let's face it...even Ann, Ravi, and Emily (two of whom never even learned TM) had more going for them than you did. They at least got to meet and interact with the teachers they claimed to be "studying with." Come to think of it, all of them had occasional stories to tell as well. That kinda leaves you as one of the only people on the forum who never has. Doesn't it ever *bother* you being the biggest poseur on the forum? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Bhairitu wrote: 'There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water."' 'I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no longer work and the unenlightened materialistic elite are trying to hold on to these antiquated systems. Time for them to move over and get out of the way since they are a real drag on society. Certainly having a quiet platform of silence helps to observe these apocalyptic events and even laugh them off (or laugh at the perpetrators). I find that some of the political forums I'm on the posters really get hung up in the minutia missing the forest for the trees. Folks here, not so much. That in itself is a sign of evolution.' I am finding that I no longer seek spiritual experience, though I seek to find ways to understand what I am experiencing, and sometimes I have a desire for more information. Almost all my 'spiritual' experiences occured early on, in the years before I learned TM, and in a few years following that learning. Then things began to flatten out for long periods; in fact it often seemed like experience was sometimes going in reverse. But them the realisation came that it is not the experiences that were important in this seeking behaviour, it was the nature of experience itself and at that juncture, the seeking stopped. I just watched a science fiction movie on Netflix. Now I am in my office and there is a single lamp on a lampstand pointing at the ceiling. This is the only light source in my office that is on. Just light shining on the wall and ceiling, not very interesting as the plot of a movie, but it is just as fascinating as the movie. This seems to be simply because it is the nature of experience itself, it exists, it changes. It is a beautifully strange, unlocated silence that strings together these ordinary pearls of life. There is no longer any sense at all that there is something beyond this. In the beginning I imagined, based on what others told me, that spiritual life was transcendental, beyond the normal sphere of living. But as time has passed, that no longer holds. What I called transcendent in the beginning has become immanence, it is no longer something out of sight or mind. 'Transcendence' now sounds ludicrous and bizarre. It was, for a time a useful fiction, but it no longer means anything at all. If I am meditating or looking at the stack of fuel meter tickets on my desk (it has been uncommonly cold here this winter), it is pretty much the same thing. It was not the specific content that was going on that I was seeking all those years, it was just the plain fact that something was going on. It took decades to finally get this. All that intellectual filigree and nit picking about spiritual concepts and how this related to that was all a smoke screen for something much more obvious, that existence is, and that is that. End of question. Trying to describe this quality of experience is challenging because there is nothing extraordinary about it, and this is my second best shot at it. I wrote and hit enter, and the cursor was probably out of the box, and Neo trashed the whole thing I wrote. So this is an attempt to reclaim a previous inspiration, and it is like reheated food. A certain amount of caustion. I am going to cut and paste this into Neo from a text editor. I really do not have spiritual experiences any more. It's not boring, but for someone who is still looking for them, it might seem to be a rather austere way to experience life. If I feel tired, I am tired, sometimes I am blissful, and sometimes not. I am not looking to be happy or avoid happiness. I am not looking to be sad or avoid sadness. If it comes that way, that is what I experience. It is a peculiar quality to not anticipate things much at all. United States Federal and local state taxes are do, so I do have to think about future events, a certain amount of planning is required to get through a year, and then another year. But its not frantic, though I can imagine scenarios that could be frantic, such as economic collapse etc. As for chopping wood and carrying water, it's easier now. An electric pump brings water into the house, and there is some wood in the garage, but someone else chopped it (probably with a machine). So I just have to turn on the faucet, but I do have to carry wood into the house, but it is for ambience, the oil boiler does the real job of heating. Now it's time for me to sit quietly and do nothing, which I do from time to time. Formal quiet time, on my own schedule, not at someone else's urging. I am not coordinating with anyone (I am ignoring Buck, that is to say).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
noozguru, I've heard that where the wind is really strong all the time, the trees send their roots deep, deep, deep into the earth. I feel like one of those trees and I feel really really really lucky. I wish everyone could be so blessed... On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 3:45 PM, Bhairitu wrote: There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water." I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no longer work and the unenlightened materialistic elite are trying to hold on to these antiquated systems. Time for them to move over and get out of the way since they are a real drag on society. Certainly having a quiet platform of silence helps to observe these apocalyptic events and even laugh them off (or laugh at the perpetrators). I find that some of the political forums I'm on the posters really get hung up in the minutia missing the forest for the trees. Folks here, not so much. That in itself is a sign of evolution. On 01/22/2014 12:42 PM, Share Long wrote: >noozguru, I'm with you on this. And I'm not claiming to be enlightened. I'm >just saying that I think all of human life is about spirituality, whatever >else it's about, whether it be art or weather or politics or food, etc. Or >sports. I just watched 42, The Jackie Robinson Story. Now that's spirituality >in action! imho (-: > > > > > > >On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu >wrote: > > >On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > >But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily >basis. >> >Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? > >Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D > >Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football.. > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Dear Turqb; I often find the process in composing of the short non-fiction > spiritual essay to be very spiritual contemplative transcendentalism in > exercise; cultivating of Rishi, Devata, and Chandas values of the whole > spiritual field within the human form having thoughts and feelings rise out > of the 'source of thoughts' motivated by the will and soul on consciousness > pure. I see. You prefer to write about stuck-in-your-head intellectualisms about other people's experience. No problem. I was just trying to sort out who was who here on FFL. If you can't describe how these things felt to you, I reserve the right to believe you've never experienced how these things feel. Like many here, you've only "heard about" them. Who's the "schoolmarm" now? You're such a fake Barry, such a big-mouthed, judgmental fake. What is this, Barry's remedial classroom for spiritual flunkies? So far you have judged every single person (all 2 of them) who has mentioned anything about their "spiritual" experience. Have you "sorted it out" yet? Have you put everyone to rights yet? Are you feeling particular impotent today or something?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Post numbers? (So we can read them) You must have recalled some of these things you wrote and about when you wrote them. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Barry, sweetie-poops, I've actually written quite a bit here about my spiritual experiences. You're the guy who's squirming because I unmasked your pose of being interested in such experiences (with a lot of inadvertent help from you, actually). You can't un-post your, er, contributions to this thread, unfortunately. But as I say, keep going, by all means. The more people see of your hypocrisy and hatred, the better. > He has a real shitload of hatred and resentment he has to let loose. Projection, honey-bunch. I'm just enjoying watching you squirm. :-) *I*, after all, am not the person who has been unmasked as the person with the *least* actual spiritual experience of anyone on this forum. That's you. Let's face it...even Ann, Ravi, and Emily (two of whom never even learned TM) had more going for them than you did. They at least got to meet and interact with the teachers they claimed to be "studying with." Come to think of it, all of them had occasional stories to tell as well. That kinda leaves you as one of the only people on the forum who never has. Doesn't it ever *bother* you being the biggest poseur on the forum? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > */But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have > > on a daily basis. /* > > Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? > > Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D Interestingly, teachers in the past have never shirked from the basically impossible task of trying to express silence. Some have done it quite eloquently, like the Zen masters and poets of Japan, who managed to turn the subjective experience of silence into high art. > Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk > about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local > political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football.. Perhaps they'd rather not even try, out of fear of not being able to convey their experience in a way that could touch another human being and possibly inspire them. You can't or won't be touched. You are untouchable in any way that could make a difference for you. You are a fossil, a hardened piece of tough leather. If there is a small heart beating in that carapace of yours Barry, it's the size of a pea.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Judy, I've never written a spiritual essay. I think it was Buck who wrote that post but I'm going to check now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
There's that old saw: "before enlightenment you chop wood and carry water and after enlightenment you copy wood and carry water." I find it interesting to watch the world falling apart. Our old systems no longer work and the unenlightened materialistic elite are trying to hold on to these antiquated systems. Time for them to move over and get out of the way since they are a real drag on society. Certainly having a quiet platform of silence helps to observe these apocalyptic events and even laugh them off (or laugh at the perpetrators). I find that some of the political forums I'm on the posters really get hung up in the minutia missing the forest for the trees. Folks here, not so much. That in itself is a sign of evolution. On 01/22/2014 12:42 PM, Share Long wrote: noozguru, I'm with you on this. And I'm not claiming to be enlightened. I'm just saying that I think all of human life is about spirituality, whatever else it's about, whether it be art or weather or politics or food, etc. Or sports. I just watched 42, The Jackie Robinson Story. Now that's spirituality in action! imho (-: On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu wrote: On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: */But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. /* Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: noozguru, I'm with you on this. And I'm not claiming to be enlightened. I'm just saying that I think all of human life is about spirituality, whatever else it's about, whether it be art or weather or politics or food, etc. Or sports. I just watched 42, The Jackie Robinson Story. Now that's spirituality in action! imho (-: Why do you think I asked Buck if he'd looked into his horse's eyes lately instead of running around the countryside trying to find "a saint"? It's all everywhere, just like you noticed when you woke up this morning and felt what you felt. I don't know what Barry's on about, as if "spiritual" experiences exist outside of all that we do day to day. On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu wrote: On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
noozguru, I'm with you on this. And I'm not claiming to be enlightened. I'm just saying that I think all of human life is about spirituality, whatever else it's about, whether it be art or weather or politics or food, etc. Or sports. I just watched 42, The Jackie Robinson Story. Now that's spirituality in action! imho (-: On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:53 AM, Bhairitu wrote: On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. > Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
On 01/22/2014 11:29 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > */But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have > > on a daily basis. /* > > Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? > > Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D */Interestingly, teachers in the past have never shirked from the basically impossible task of trying to express silence. Some have done it quite eloquently, like the Zen masters and poets of Japan, who managed to turn the subjective experience of silence into high art. /* /*Silence is silence. A number of folks have posted on FFL about experiencing silence in activity. No big deal. Maybe it is if you are not experiencing it. Those who have, made and got the t-shirt. ;-) */ > Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk > about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local > political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football.. */Perhaps they'd rather not even try, out of fear of not being able to convey their experience in a way that could touch another human being and possibly inspire them./* /*If people want to be inspired why waste time trying to get it on a chat group in the Internet age? Just go read some shastra or watch some of the chanting on YouTube. Problem on FFL is that if someone claims they are having a good experience or their experience doesn't fall within the rather poor definitions of enlightenment that MMY gave then they are told they aren't experiencing enlightenment. I know a number of folks who have experienced silence in activity starting back in the 1970s. I also know folks who have said they only have transcended a few times practicing TM. I was also thinking about the Buck's complaining that folks were falling asleep during program in the dome. I wonder if he asked them if they were witnessing that sleep. They might be and experiencing the delta wave state which is very much like sleep but not atotal blank out. I've experienced that myself meditating. FFL is NOT a weekend residence course that needs to be shepherded by a course leader. */ __._,_
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Barry, sweetie-poops, I've actually written quite a bit here about my spiritual experiences. You're the guy who's squirming because I unmasked your pose of being interested in such experiences (with a lot of inadvertent help from you, actually). You can't un-post your, er, contributions to this thread, unfortunately. But as I say, keep going, by all means. The more people see of your hypocrisy and hatred, the better. > He has a real shitload of hatred and resentment he has to let loose. Projection, honey-bunch. I'm just enjoying watching you squirm. :-) *I*, after all, am not the person who has been unmasked as the person with the *least* actual spiritual experience of anyone on this forum. That's you. Let's face it...even Ann, Ravi, and Emily (two of whom never even learned TM) had more going for them than you did. They at least got to meet and interact with the teachers they claimed to be "studying with." Come to think of it, all of them had occasional stories to tell as well. That kinda leaves you as one of the only people on the forum who never has. Doesn't it ever *bother* you being the biggest poseur on the forum? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pos...@poseur.com wrote: > > He has a real shitload of hatred and resentment he has to let loose. Projection, honey-bunch. I'm just enjoying watching you squirm. :-) *I*, after all, am not the person who has been unmasked as the person with the *least* actual spiritual experience of anyone on this forum. That's you. Let's face it...even Ann, Ravi, and Emily (two of whom never even learned TM) had more going for them than you did. They at least got to meet and interact with the teachers they claimed to be "studying with." Come to think of it, all of them had occasional stories to tell as well. That kinda leaves you as one of the only people on the forum who never has. Doesn't it ever *bother* you being the biggest poseur on the forum? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Actually Share's post was about her own experience of writing spiritual essays. And she might have been willing to try to describe how it "felt" to her if you hadn't immediately and very nastily stepped on her (not even having read what she wrote carefully enough to see what she was talking about). Thank you, Barry, for continuing to demonstrate the truth of my point about why you started this discussion. Hey, don't stop now. I'm sure you have quite a bit of bile left to get rid of. > This is one of the main reasons folks don't want to write about their > spiritual experiences on FFL: Please note that Judy carefully snipped what I was replying to, which I think most people would recognize as stuck-in-one's-head intellectualisms about other people's experience. I repeat the word "panic." She's now *desperate* to try to keep anyone else from actually expressing any of their real, personal spiritual experiences here, because she knows that she'd never be able to. > > I see. You prefer to write about stuck-in-your-head intellectualisms about > > other people's experience. No problem. I was just trying to sort out who > > was who here on FFL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
He can't stop himself now. He has a real shitload of hatred and resentment he has to let loose. So spiritual, isn't he? (Notice he can't bring himself to acknowledge the incredibly stupid whopper in his previous post.) You didn't answer my question about your Cathar novel either, Barry. I'm sure there are really, really excellent reasons why we haven't seen that between covers yet. How long has it been now since that was the reason for your moving to France? > And I never checked anybody because I never got certified; something, can't > remember what, got in the way of my attending the certification > appointments, as I've said here a number of times. Gee, not much of a story > in that, is there? Gee, could it be anything like the excuses you've trotted out here and on a.m.t. over the years for never becoming a TM teacher, and never having been enough of a seeker to ever get yourself into a room with the person you consider your spiritual teacher? No *wonder* you have no stories to tell. You always found ways to make up excuses to keep from having them. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > This is one of the main reasons folks don't want to write about their spiritual experiences on FFL: Please note that Judy carefully snipped what I was replying to, which I think most people would recognize as stuck-in-one's-head intellectualisms about other people's experience. I repeat the word "panic." She's now *desperate* to try to keep anyone else from actually expressing any of their real, personal spiritual experiences here, because she knows that she'd never be able to. > > I see. You prefer to write about stuck-in-your-head intellectualisms about other people's experience. No problem. I was just trying to sort out who was who here on FFL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
This is one of the main reasons folks don't want to write about their spiritual experiences on FFL: I see. You prefer to write about stuck-in-your-head intellectualisms about other people's experience. No problem. I was just trying to sort out who was who here on FFL. As I pointed out, for Barry, it's a competition with winners and losers. Share is a loser, as far as Barry is concerned. If you can't describe how these things felt to you, I reserve the right to believe you've never experienced how these things feel. Like many here, you've only "heard about" them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > And I never checked anybody because I never got certified; something, can't remember what, got in the way of my attending the certification appointments, as I've said here a number of times. Gee, not much of a story in that, is there? Gee, could it be anything like the excuses you've trotted out here and on a.m.t. over the years for never becoming a TM teacher, and never having been enough of a seeker to ever get yourself into a room with the person you consider your spiritual teacher? No *wonder* you have no stories to tell. You always found ways to make up excuses to keep from having them. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
This is about the level of Barry's mental functioning these days: I took checker training at least a decade before I got on the Internet in 1994. Boy, that's some foresight I had, isn't it? (And I never checked anybody because I never got certified; something, can't remember what, got in the way of my attending the certification appointments, as I've said here a number of times. Gee, not much of a story in that, is there?) The rest of Barry's post is just more of his poisonous drivel, proving my point about the real purpose of his "spiritual experiences" rant: to give him a chance to demonize the folks he doesn't like. You'd think, with all his vaunted creativity, he could at least think up a different rant instead of one he's used over and over for that same purpose. BTW, Barry, how's your novel about the Cathars coming along? > I reiterate what I said earlier: Barry isn't interested in others' spiritual > experiences, he's interested in having something with which to browbeat the > people he doesn't like--even though he has to use the same rap he's hauled > out so many times before. That's all this is (as his comments demonstrate). Barry reiterates what he said earlier. Judy is too terrified to ever even *try* to write creatively, because she hasn't got an ounce of either creativity *or* writing talent in her. She writes like an old, repressed schoolmarm, and let's face it...who would want to hear what she has to say about *being* an old, repressed schoolmarm? :-) Here's an idea for a story for you, Jude. Why don't you write about what it was like to "take the TM checker training" course, presumably so that you could "argue better" in your endless, petty arguments on the Internet, and then *never check anyone's meditation*. Surely there's a story or two in *that*. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Dear Turqb; I often find the process in composing of the short non-fiction spiritual essay to be very spiritual contemplative transcendentalism in exercise; cultivating of Rishi, Devata, and Chandas values of the whole spiritual field within the human form having thoughts and feelings rise out of the 'source of thoughts' motivated by the will and soul on consciousness pure. I see. You prefer to write about stuck-in-your-head intellectualisms about other people's experience. No problem. I was just trying to sort out who was who here on FFL. If you can't describe how these things felt to you, I reserve the right to believe you've never experienced how these things feel. Like many here, you've only "heard about" them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > */But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have > > on a daily basis. /* > > Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? > > Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D Interestingly, teachers in the past have never shirked from the basically impossible task of trying to express silence. Some have done it quite eloquently, like the Zen masters and poets of Japan, who managed to turn the subjective experience of silence into high art. > Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk > about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local > political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football.. Perhaps they'd rather not even try, out of fear of not being able to convey their experience in a way that could touch another human being and possibly inspire them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > I reiterate what I said earlier: Barry isn't interested in others' spiritual experiences, he's interested in having something with which to browbeat the people he doesn't like--even though he has to use the same rap he's hauled out so many times before. That's all this is (as his comments demonstrate). Barry reiterates what he said earlier. Judy is too terrified to ever even *try* to write creatively, because she hasn't got an ounce of either creativity *or* writing talent in her. She writes like an old, repressed schoolmarm, and let's face it...who would want to hear what she has to say about *being* an old, repressed schoolmarm? :-) Here's an idea for a story for you, Jude. Why don't you write about what it was like to "take the TM checker training" course, presumably so that you could "argue better" in your endless, petty arguments on the Internet, and then *never check anyone's meditation*. Surely there's a story or two in *that*. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Jesus, Barry, CHANGE THE DAMN RECORD. How many times do we have to read this > same rap from you? Pay attention, folks. This is the sound of someone panicking. :-) Reaaay. It sounds more like someone who is tired of watching you repeat yourself. She sounds bored and annoyed, hardly freaked out. She knows that she cannot compete on a spiritual playground in which the players have to talk about their personal experience (she has none), and well (she can't write worth a damn, and is actually *afraid* to try, because that will open her up to criticism she cannot abide). Besides, she's afraid to compete on a playground in which the goal is to PLAY, not "win." "Spiritual playground" - does it have swings and monkey bars? BTW, if Judy can't "abide criticism" what is she still doing here after all these years? You woulda thunk she woulda left a long time ago if that was the case. But then thunking is not your strong suit, Bawwy. Expect more of her stuck-in-her-head BS, folks. You ain't gonna get no personal experience stories from her, for what should be obvious reasons. Reason 1: they ain't none of your damn beeswax, Bawwy, that's why. D-uh. The person who tries to present herself as an "authority" here 1) never met Maharishi, 2) never became a TM teacher, 3) never did shit for the TM organization or to spread its teachings, 3) has rarely ever left her tiny apartment in New Jersey and thus 4) has nothing to write about, 5) if she were able to. In other words, expect more of the same -- the venom of an angry old woman, lashing out at the world because *she* wasted her own life in the pursuit of pettiness. I love these examples of your: "I'm an angry old man, lashing out at the world because I wasted my own life in the pursuit of pettiness (and, evidently, still continue to do so at this very moment)." Are you really this dense, Bawwy, with so little self knowledge? Others here probably have stories of their actual experiences, because they had some. I look forward to hearing them... Sure you do. People are just lined up to tell you their deepest experiences, just give them a little time... > Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on > why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." > > > If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a > major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned > over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all > about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, > Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, > Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is > number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, > this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get > channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is > aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who > want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become > celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these > sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people > to click on them and thus register another "hit." > > Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content > disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), > and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like > Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for > content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the > degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their > content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff > articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these > sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this > business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much > of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to > create original content. > > I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon > on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention > spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are > just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many > "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think > of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a > strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily > -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sit
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Dear Turqb; I often find the process in composing of the short non-fiction spiritual essay to be very spiritual contemplative transcendentalism in exercise; cultivating of Rishi, Devata, and Chandas values of the whole spiritual field within the human form having thoughts and feelings rise out of the 'source of thoughts' motivated by the will and soul on consciousness pure. But alas, generally people with substantial spiritual experience do not write here because they've seen the way that illumination gets cut off at the knees here on FFL by skeptical meditation-haters or the down-in-the-mouth quitters. In Fairfield, Ia. there are illumined folks all over the place and in conversation about [ fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com ] (FFL) as a place there seems an illumined viewership consensus remarking about the needless antagonisms that some people pull here as aggressive unkind personal attack bent to do damage to energy fields of others here rather than just discussing what is written. Too often that vileness is quite bad. Sinful really. That is a type of spiritual sin that some seem to perpetrate here in method. Probably a character flaw of bad upbringing or some bad physiology. So for a lot of really nice illumined people there is just Not point in throwing pearls before swine for all the needless trouble swine can cause to the sheaths of subtle energetics of spirituality otherwise. -Buck TurquoiseB writes: Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sites -- of people reposting something they found elsewhere, then arguing about it. Nowhere do you see this more than in the so-called "spiritual" talk forums. Pay attention sometime, and see for yourself whether I'm correct about this. *Most* of what you read on such forums consists of stories about spiritual teachers or "saints" that in many cases the person writing *never even met*, or regurgitated writings from so-called "scriptures" or books written about (rarely by) these other teachers. Occasionally someone posts a "personal experience story," but even then the events being written about tend to be set far in the past -- people write about some great experience they supposedly had twenty or thirty years ago around some supposedly charismatic teacher. But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. Go figur
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Judy: > I pointed out that some folks may have plenty of spiritual > experiences but simply not want to write about them on this > forum. > Let's see, how many times did I ask Barry about what it felt like to witness Rama's levitation event? That would surely be an earth-shaking spiritual experience! Instead, Barry writes about French cafes and posts comments about other people's spiritual experiences. Go figure. Sometimes I wonder what Barry's spiritual experiences, if any, were really like, or even if he has thought about them much. Why would a non-believer even want to talk about a "spiritual" path or "spiritual" experience in the first place? Didn't Barry used to say that these unusual events were just common everyday experiences, no big deal, a big whoop? One could spend days and weeks finding holes in what Barry tries to pass for logic. The guy is so contradictory, such a hypocrite that finding flaws in what he tries to pass off as creative and interesting writing is like shooting fish in a barrel - the only difference is that fish are smarter. But nice job with your post here, Ricky. You managed to bring up a couple of relevant inconsistencies. Bawwy won't take kindly to you having pointed these out. On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 10:27 AM, mailto:authfriend@...> wrote: Barry carefully deleted the rest of what I wrote because it panicked him. I pointed out that some folks may have plenty of spiritual experiences but simply not want to write about them on this forum. A bit of logic that interferes with his pronouncements throws Barry for a loop. Some experiences are just too delicate and personal to share, for one thing. For another, not everyone thinks they're defined by their spiritual experiences. Others don't feel the need to inflate their self-image by boasting about how evolved they are. In any case, Barry reveals below what he really thinks: Not only is writing about spiritual experiences a competition in his mind, but such writing is subject to actual criticism. No wonder folks don't want to buy into that perverted view of spirituality. BTW, everything Barry says about me below is factually incorrect, except for my not having met Maharishi and not having become a TM teacher (as if that would say anything about my spiritual experiences). I reiterate what I said earlier: Barry isn't interested in others' spiritual experiences, he's interested in having something with which to browbeat the people he doesn't like--even though he has to use the same rap he's hauled out so many times before. That's all this is (as his comments demonstrate). > Jesus, Barry, CHANGE THE DAMN RECORD. How many times do we have to read this > same rap from you? Pay attention, folks. This is the sound of someone panicking. :-) She knows that she cannot compete on a spiritual playground in which the players have to talk about their personal experience (she has none), and well (she can't write worth a damn, and is actually *afraid* to try, because that will open her up to criticism she cannot abide). Besides, she's afraid to compete on a playground in which the goal is to PLAY, not "win." Expect more of her stuck-in-her-head BS, folks. You ain't gonna get no personal experience stories from her, for what should be obvious reasons. The person who tries to present herself as an "authority" here 1) never met Maharishi, 2) never became a TM teacher, 3) never did shit for the TM organization or to spread its teachings, 3) has rarely ever left her tiny apartment in New Jersey and thus 4) has nothing to write about, 5) if she were able to. In other words, expect more of the same -- the venom of an angry old woman, lashing out at the world because *she* wasted her own life in the pursuit of pettiness. Others here probably have stories of their actual experiences, because they had some. I look forward to hearing them...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
TurquoiseB: > was trying to rap about the "high" that you can get from > writing creatively, and in a spiritual context... > You are going to have to excuse me, Barry, but I must have missed most of your "spiritual" writings. Maybe that's because most of the topics you write about are secular in nature - they don't have anything to do with seeing or experiencing spirit beings. Unless, you want to be saying that like Delia, your spiritual path includes everything in the cosmos, everything that happens on earth - a pantheistic notion. Go figure. So,let's review what we know about the first historical yogin and his spiritual experience, and then I'll describe my own. The Shakya is reported to have said: "I call to mind how when the Sakyan my father was ploughing, I sat in the cool shade of the rose-apple tree, remote from desires and ill conditions, and entered upon and abode in the First Musing, that is accompanied by thought directed and sustained, which is born of solitude, full of zestful ease. And then I said, 'Is this the Way to the Wisdom?' And on that occasion there came to me the conciousness that follows thought composed, 'Yes, this is the Way to the Wisdom.'" (M.N. i.242-1) This is illustrated in the Buddhist scriptures where the Buddha explained what he had attained at the moment of enlightenment - he attained three knowledges (vidhya): 1. Insight into his past lives 2. Insight into the workings of Karma and Reincarnation 3. Insight into the Four Noble Truths Excerpt from The Confessions by Richard J. Williams: "As I began to transcend deeper and deeper into my own mind I experienced a profound sense of calm; then suddenly in a flash I saw and experienced the entire existence as a divine bi-unity - all inter-related, just like the net of Lord Indra. I realized that we are all connected. I became enlightened on the spot through no volition of my own! There, standing right in front of me, appeared the Intelligent Agent: The Creator Almighty, Lord of Volcanoes - and His wife, the beautiful Sophia, their son Baal, and their daughter Ashley. I fully realized at that moment that existence is, in reality, a great big family affair - we are all related in spirit!" On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 2:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > *Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit > on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." If you worked in > the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major > debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over > statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all > about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, > Wikipedia) or "aggregating" * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name > of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the > world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the > "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that > actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, > gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take > advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and > regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in > their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click > on them and thus register another "hit." Suffice it to say that there is a > "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people > who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content > creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, > and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay > them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost > over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are > now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy > Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are > *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business > model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of > anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to > create original content. I'm rapping about this because I think there is a > parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because > people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, > perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic > business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and > possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and > creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any > *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more > mainstream content aggregator sites
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
On 01/22/2014 12:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: */But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. /* Perhaps because they aren't narcissistic enough to want to brag about them? Or do you really want to read a bunch of noise about silence? :-D Perhaps those who are experiencing enlightenment would like to talk about the application of that such as perceptions of global or local political events. Or the weather. Or food. Or football..
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Judy: > I pointed out that some folks may have plenty of spiritual > experiences but simply not want to write about them on this > forum. > Let's see, how many times did I ask Barry about what it felt like to witness Rama's levitation event? That would surely be an earth-shaking spiritual experience! Instead, Barry writes about French cafes and posts comments about other people's spiritual experiences. Go figure. Sometimes I wonder what Barry's spiritual experiences, if any, were really like, or even if he has thought about them much. Why would a non-believer even want to talk about a "spiritual" path or "spiritual" experience in the first place? Didn't Barry used to say that these unusual events were just common everyday experiences, no big deal, a big whoop? On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 10:27 AM, wrote: > > > Barry carefully deleted the rest of what I wrote because it panicked him. > I pointed out that some folks may have plenty of spiritual experiences but > simply not want to write about them on this forum. A bit of logic that > interferes with his pronouncements throws Barry for a loop. > > > Some experiences are just too delicate and personal to share, for one > thing. For another, not everyone thinks they're defined by their spiritual > experiences. Others don't feel the need to inflate their self-image by > boasting about how evolved they are. > > > In any case, Barry reveals below what he really thinks: Not only is > writing about spiritual experiences a competition in his mind, but such > writing is subject to actual criticism. No wonder folks don't want to buy > into that perverted view of spirituality. > > > BTW, everything Barry says about me below is factually incorrect, except > for my not having met Maharishi and not having become a TM teacher (as if > that would say anything about my spiritual experiences). > > > I reiterate what I said earlier: Barry isn't interested in others' > spiritual experiences, he's interested in having something with which to > browbeat the people he doesn't like--even though he has to use the same rap > he's hauled out so many times before. That's all this is (as his comments > demonstrate). > > > Jesus, Barry, CHANGE THE DAMN RECORD. How many times do we have to read > this same rap from you? > > > > > > > > > > > *Pay attention, folks. This is the sound of someone panicking. :-)She > knows that she cannot compete on a spiritual playground in which the > players have to talk about their personal experience (she has none), and > well (she can't write worth a damn, and is actually *afraid* to try, > because that will open her up to criticism she cannot abide). Besides, > she's afraid to compete on a playground in which the goal is to PLAY, not > "win." Expect more of her stuck-in-her-head BS, folks. You ain't gonna get > no personal experience stories from her, for what should be obvious > reasons. The person who tries to present herself as an "authority" here 1) > never met Maharishi, 2) never became a TM teacher, 3) never did shit for > the TM organization or to spread its teachings, 3) has rarely ever left her > tiny apartment in New Jersey and thus 4) has nothing to write about, 5) if > she were able to. In other words, expect more of the same -- the venom of > an angry old woman, lashing out at the world because *she* wasted her own > life in the pursuit of pettiness.Others here probably have stories of their > actual experiences, because they had some. I look forward to hearing > them... * > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Barry carefully deleted the rest of what I wrote because it panicked him. I pointed out that some folks may have plenty of spiritual experiences but simply not want to write about them on this forum. A bit of logic that interferes with his pronouncements throws Barry for a loop. Some experiences are just too delicate and personal to share, for one thing. For another, not everyone thinks they're defined by their spiritual experiences. Others don't feel the need to inflate their self-image by boasting about how evolved they are. In any case, Barry reveals below what he really thinks: Not only is writing about spiritual experiences a competition in his mind, but such writing is subject to actual criticism. No wonder folks don't want to buy into that perverted view of spirituality. BTW, everything Barry says about me below is factually incorrect, except for my not having met Maharishi and not having become a TM teacher (as if that would say anything about my spiritual experiences). I reiterate what I said earlier: Barry isn't interested in others' spiritual experiences, he's interested in having something with which to browbeat the people he doesn't like--even though he has to use the same rap he's hauled out so many times before. That's all this is (as his comments demonstrate). > Jesus, Barry, CHANGE THE DAMN RECORD. How many times do we have to read this > same rap from you? Pay attention, folks. This is the sound of someone panicking. :-) She knows that she cannot compete on a spiritual playground in which the players have to talk about their personal experience (she has none), and well (she can't write worth a damn, and is actually *afraid* to try, because that will open her up to criticism she cannot abide). Besides, she's afraid to compete on a playground in which the goal is to PLAY, not "win." Expect more of her stuck-in-her-head BS, folks. You ain't gonna get no personal experience stories from her, for what should be obvious reasons. The person who tries to present herself as an "authority" here 1) never met Maharishi, 2) never became a TM teacher, 3) never did shit for the TM organization or to spread its teachings, 3) has rarely ever left her tiny apartment in New Jersey and thus 4) has nothing to write about, 5) if she were able to. In other words, expect more of the same -- the venom of an angry old woman, lashing out at the world because *she* wasted her own life in the pursuit of pettiness. Others here probably have stories of their actual experiences, because they had some. I look forward to hearing them...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > Jesus, Barry, CHANGE THE DAMN RECORD. How many times do we have to read this same rap from you? Pay attention, folks. This is the sound of someone panicking. :-) She knows that she cannot compete on a spiritual playground in which the players have to talk about their personal experience (she has none), and well (she can't write worth a damn, and is actually *afraid* to try, because that will open her up to criticism she cannot abide). Besides, she's afraid to compete on a playground in which the goal is to PLAY, not "win." Expect more of her stuck-in-her-head BS, folks. You ain't gonna get no personal experience stories from her, for what should be obvious reasons. The person who tries to present herself as an "authority" here 1) never met Maharishi, 2) never became a TM teacher, 3) never did shit for the TM organization or to spread its teachings, 3) has rarely ever left her tiny apartment in New Jersey and thus 4) has nothing to write about, 5) if she were able to. In other words, expect more of the same -- the venom of an angry old woman, lashing out at the world because *she* wasted her own life in the pursuit of pettiness. Others here probably have stories of their actual experiences, because they had some. I look forward to hearing them... > Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." > > > If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." > > Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. > > I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sites -- of people reposting something they found elsewhere, then arguing about it. > > Nowhere do you see this more than in the so-called "spiritual" talk forums. Pay attention sometime, and see for yourself whether I'm correct about this. *Most* of what you read on such forums consists of stories about spiritual teachers or "saints" that in many cases the person writing *never even met*, or regurgitated writings from so-called "scriptures" or books written about (rarely by) these other teachers. Occasionally someone posts a "personal experience story," but even then the events being written about tend to be set far in the past -- people write about some great experience they supposedly had twenty or thirty years ago around some supposedly charismatic teacher. > > But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. > > Go figure. It's almost as if most of the people writing to these forums don't *HAVE* any here-and-now, in-the-present spiritual experiences. Almost as if. > > Why I wrote the post this one is a followup
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sites -- of people reposting something they found elsewhere, then arguing about it. Nowhere do you see this more than in the so-called "spiritual" talk forums. Pay attention sometime, and see for yourself whether I'm correct about this. *Most* of what you read on such forums consists of stories about spiritual teachers or "saints" that in many cases the person writing *never even met*, or regurgitated writings from so-called "scriptures" or books written about (rarely by) these other teachers. Occasionally someone posts a "personal experience story," but even then the events being written about tend to be set far in the past -- people write about some great experience they supposedly had twenty or thirty years ago around some supposedly charismatic teacher. But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. Go figure. It's almost as if most of the people writing to these forums don't *HAVE* any here-and-now, in-the-present spiritual experiences. Almost as if. Why I wrote the post this one is a followup to is that I was trying to rap about the "high" that you can get from writing creatively, and in a spiritual context. I was hoping to maybe inspire others on FFL to do a bit more of that kind of writing, if they had it in them. The lack of response would seem to indicate that -- sadly -- most folks here *don't* have it in them. So I'll try again, as is my wont in a bit more in-your-face manner. :-) What's up with having paid your "spiritual dues" for twenty to forty years and *having nothing to say about your everyday spiritual life*? Doesn't that strike you as more than a little SAD? Is the only source of inspiration in your life stories from 20-30 years ago, or stories that you read in some scripture or book about someone you never even *met*? As for *arguing* about these things, give me a break. How can anyone consider someone who never *met* a certain spiritual teacher "authoritative" about what he or she taught? That's like believing you can look something up on Wikipedia and be an "expert" about it. Similarly, how can anyone criticize the few here who *do* write creatively about their own experiences from time to time when *they never have*. The *priorities* on these spiritual forums sometimes dismay
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Jesus, Barry, CHANGE THE DAMN RECORD. How many times do we have to read this same rap from you? This may be way too intellectual for you to grasp, but it seems to me not having any spiritual experiences may not the only reason folks don't write about them here. It's also entirely possible some people don't write about them here because they don't want to. Put that in your nasty little pipe and smoke it. And if the posts on this forum aren't of interest to you, go find another forum. Stop trying to browbeat us into writing what you think we should be writing. (In any case, those of us who know you pretty well realize your main interest is not in getting people to write about their experiences, but to have an excuse to browbeat.) Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sites -- of people reposting something they found elsewhere, then arguing about it. Nowhere do you see this more than in the so-called "spiritual" talk forums. Pay attention sometime, and see for yourself whether I'm correct about this. *Most* of what you read on such forums consists of stories about spiritual teachers or "saints" that in many cases the person writing *never even met*, or regurgitated writings from so-called "scriptures" or books written about (rarely by) these other teachers. Occasionally someone posts a "personal experience story," but even then the events being written about tend to be set far in the past -- people write about some great experience they supposedly had twenty or thirty years ago around some supposedly charismatic teacher. But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. Go figure. It's almost as if most of the people writing to these forums don't *HAVE* any here-and-now, in-the-present spiritual experiences. Almost as if. Why I wrote the post this one is a followup to is that I was trying to rap about the "high" that you can get from writing creatively, and in a spiritual context. I was hoping to maybe inspire others on FFL to do a bit more of that kind of writing, if they had it in them. The lack of response would seem to indicate that -- sadly -- most folks here *don't* have it in them. So I'll try again, as is my wont in a bit more in-your-face manner. :-) What's up with having paid your "spiritual dues" for twenty to forty years and *having nothing to say about your everyda
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > Yesterday I read your chapter called "Fun" from Road Trip Mind - felt more Energy than I had with any of the other chapters - felt at peace, felt like many of the disappointments from my TM days evaporated. Felt sort of like the Universe was having a totally content day through me. It was as near to total fulfillment as I have ever had. Got up off the couch after a while, went to see my daughter who had just gotten back from a church field trip to North Carolina - she, her mom and I spent the evening making and eating brownies, watching Dr. Who and the Big Bang Theory. As I left to come back home, I felt as good as I have ever felt. This isn't really conveying the real experience, but that's as close as I can come. It's *never* conveying the real experience, but it's what we can do. Thanks for trying. FYI, I do not include you as one of the people who never really talks about your own experiences. I've thought that some of your stories -- including the ones about your family and your experiences at MUM -- have been among the best ever posted here. I guess I posted what I did today because I was missing Curtis, and some other people who, in the past, have "raised the bar" of what posting on this forum can be. Their stories were always "in the moment," and they were almost told *for the joy of telling a good story*, not to curry favor or impress anyone. Compare and contrast to some here whose whole *lives* seem to be about trying to impress people, while never having left their apartments to have any adventures or experiences to report *on*. It's like a riff on that olde "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach" routine. The FFL equivalent seems to be "Those who have experiences, share them; those who never have, try to fake them." We all intuitively know which is which. > ------------ > On Wed, 1/22/14, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@... wrote: > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wednesday, January 22, 2014, 8:21 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > Since no one followed up on this > post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect > they didn't. It's all about "content." > > If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably > have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's > been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics > that show that the websites that get the most > "hits" are all about either searching for Other > People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or > "aggregating" Other > People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, > Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money > from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really > doesn't need more search engines, this means that most > of the "creative" energy of developers tends to > get channeled into sites that actually display no > creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and > news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take > advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become > celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real > "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their > Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people > to click on them and thus register another "hit." > > > Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" > going on between these "content disseminators" and > the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), > and thus become "content creators." To be honest, > there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few > others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and > pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the > degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to > realize that their content articles are now the minority of > what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject > lines are now the majority. And because these sites are > *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that > this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't > have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an > article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original > content. > > I'm rapping about this because I think there is a > parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps > it's because people have had their attention spans > shortened from read
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Yesterday I read your chapter called "Fun" from Road Trip Mind - felt more Energy than I had with any of the other chapters - felt at peace, felt like many of the disappointments from my TM days evaporated. Felt sort of like the Universe was having a totally content day through me. It was as near to total fulfillment as I have ever had. Got up off the couch after a while, went to see my daughter who had just gotten back from a church field trip to North Carolina - she, her mom and I spent the evening making and eating brownies, watching Dr. Who and the Big Bang Theory. As I left to come back home, I felt as good as I have ever felt. This isn't really conveying the real experience, but that's as close as I can come. On Wed, 1/22/14, TurquoiseB wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 22, 2014, 8:21 AM Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sites -- of people reposting something they found elsewhere, then arguing about it. Nowhere do you see this more than in the so-called "spiritual" talk forums. Pay attention sometime, and see for yourself whether I'm correct about this. *Most* of what you read on such forums consists of stories about spiritual teachers or "saints" that in many cases the person writing *never even met*, or regurgitated writings from so-called "scriptures" or books written about (rarely by) these other teachers. Occasionally someone posts a "personal experience story," but even then the events being written about tend to be set far in the past -- people write about some great experience they supposedly had twenty or thirty years ago around some supposedly charismatic teacher. But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. Go figure. It's almost as if most of the people writing to these forums don't *HAVE* any here-and-now, in-the-present spiritual experiences. Almost as if. Wh
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: > > turq, I woke up the other morning feeling extra grateful and actually thoughts running that enumerated for what: my comfy bed and warm room, the sunshine of the previous day, being alive, etc. I think of this as a spiritual experience. So do I, if it helps you appreciate that which you consider spiritual. Some people seem to only consider flashy things -- or more accurately, *claims* of flashy things made by other people, since they rarely seem to have these experiences themselves -- as "spiritual experience." They obsess about claims of "higher states of consciousness*, or about supposed sidhis, or about tales they've heard of "saints" that of course they've never met. And, interestingly enough, when one actually asks them a simple question like, "OK, all this is well and good and all, but tell me about YOUR spiritual experiences...what have you felt or experience in the last week that makes you feel you're on a spiritual path?" what you get is a sudden and resounding silence. Expand the question to "the last month," and most of the time you still get silence. Expand it to "the last year," or even to "the last decade," and you often *still* get silence. Either that or you get what I call "spiritual misdirection." Ask about how their spiritual path has increased *their* creativity, and they start talking about *other* famous people on the same spiritual path they're on. Ask about how it's increased *their* success, and they point to *other*, more famous and successful people on the same spiritual path. You know what I'm talking about. It happens here on FFL every time someone starts pointing out that almost no one here displays much of any creativity *themselves*, or has actually accomplished much in *their* lives. Immediately, people start talking about Paul McCartney and David Lynch and Russell Brand and other celebrities. Don't fall for it. It's misdirection, used the same way a sleight of hand magician uses it. It's supposed to derail the actual question you asked them, and make you and lurkers forget that you asked it. I rarely bother to ask such questions here any more, because I've seen the misdirection dodge used so many times. On other spiritual forums, I just ignore it and come back to the original question -- "What kind of experiences have *YOU* had recently that you felt were spiritual?" or "What are some examples of increased creativity that *YOU* have experienced recently?" or "What are some examples of *YOUR* recent successes and accomplishments?" So thanks for posting your feelings about what feels spiritual in your day. It was honest, it didn't rely on appeals to flashiness, and it didn't try to dodge the question or try to derail it via misdirection. I suspect that yours will be one of the only honest answers we get. > On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 2:21 AM, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@... wrote: > > Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." > > If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to > entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." > > Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. > > I'm rapping about this because I think ther
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
turq, I woke up the other morning feeling extra grateful and actually thoughts running that enumerated for what: my comfy bed and warm room, the sunshine of the previous day, being alive, etc. I think of this as a spiritual experience. Hope you have a sweet afternoon and evening. On Wednesday, January 22, 2014 2:21 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sites -- of people reposting something they found elsewhere, then arguing about it. Nowhere do you see this more than in the so-called "spiritual" talk forums. Pay attention sometime, and see for yourself whether I'm correct about this. *Most* of what you read on such forums consists of stories about spiritual teachers or "saints" that in many cases the person writing *never even met*, or regurgitated writings from so-called "scriptures" or books written about (rarely by) these other teachers. Occasionally someone posts a "personal experience story," but even then the events being written about tend to be set far in the past -- people write about some great experience they supposedly had twenty or thirty years ago around some supposedly charismatic teacher. But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. Go figure. It's almost as if most of the people writing to these forums don't *HAVE* any here-and-now, in-the-present spiritual experiences. Almost as if. Why I wrote the post this one is a followup to is that I was trying to rap about the "high" that you can get from writing creatively, and in a spiritual context. I was hoping to maybe inspire others on FFL to do a bit more of that kind of writing, if they had it in them. The lack of response would seem to indicate that -- sadly -- most folks here *don't* have it in them. So I'll try again, as is my wont in a bit more in-your-face manner. :-) What's up with having paid your "spiritual dues" for twenty to forty years and *having nothing to say about your everyday spiritual life*? Doesn't that strike you as more than a little SAD? Is the only source of inspiration in your life stories from 20-30 years ago, or stories that you read in some scripture or book about someone you never even *met*? As for *arguing* about these things, give me a break. How can anyone consider someone who never *met* a certain spiritual teacher "authoritative" about what he or she taught
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reversing The Flow -- Writing AS Spiritual Experience
Since no one followed up on this post, I guess I will, and comment a bit on why I suspect they didn't. It's all about "content." If you worked in the world of Internet, you'd probably have caught wind of a major debate/discussion that's been taking place there. Many are concerned over statistics that show that the websites that get the most "hits" are all about either searching for Other People's Content (Google, Yahoo, Baidu, Wikipedia) or "aggregating" Other People's Content (Upworthy, Jezebel, Reddit, Digg). Since the name of the game in making money from the Web is number of hits, and since the world really doesn't need more search engines, this means that most of the "creative" energy of developers tends to get channeled into sites that actually display no creativity. All that they do is aggregate facts, gossip, and news factoids about celebrities or those who want to take advantage of this fascination with the ephemeral to become celebrities and regurgitate it. The only real "creativity" displayed by these sites is in their Subject lines, which are carefully crafted to entice people to click on them and thus register another "hit." Suffice it to say that there is a "class war" going on between these "content disseminators" and the people who actually WRITE (or produce music or video), and thus become "content creators." To be honest, there are some sites like Huffpost, Salon, Slate, and a few others that *do* provide a forum for content creators and pay them for it, but all you have to do is look at the degradation of Huffpost over the last couple of years to realize that their content articles are now the minority of what they post, and the fluff articles with snappy Subject lines are now the majority. And because these sites are *businesses*, and trying to make money, it is likely that this business model will prevail -- after all, you don't have to pay anybody much of anything to redistribute an article, and you *do* have to pay someone to create original content. I'm rapping about this because I think there is a parallel to this phenomenon on Internet talk forums. Perhaps it's because people have had their attention spans shortened from reading so much fluff, perhaps it's because they are just caught in their own narcissistic business model and trolling for as many "hits" as they can rack up, and possibly it's because they really can't think of anything original and creative to say. Whatever the reason, there is a strong lack of any *original content* on these forums. They consist primarily -- like the more mainstream content aggregator sites -- of people reposting something they found elsewhere, then arguing about it. Nowhere do you see this more than in the so-called "spiritual" talk forums. Pay attention sometime, and see for yourself whether I'm correct about this. *Most* of what you read on such forums consists of stories about spiritual teachers or "saints" that in many cases the person writing *never even met*, or regurgitated writings from so-called "scriptures" or books written about (rarely by) these other teachers. Occasionally someone posts a "personal experience story," but even then the events being written about tend to be set far in the past -- people write about some great experience they supposedly had twenty or thirty years ago around some supposedly charismatic teacher. But almost no one writes about the spiritual experiences they have on a daily basis. Go figure. It's almost as if most of the people writing to these forums don't *HAVE* any here-and-now, in-the-present spiritual experiences. Almost as if. Why I wrote the post this one is a followup to is that I was trying to rap about the "high" that you can get from writing creatively, and in a spiritual context. I was hoping to maybe inspire others on FFL to do a bit more of that kind of writing, if they had it in them. The lack of response would seem to indicate that -- sadly -- most folks here *don't* have it in them. So I'll try again, as is my wont in a bit more in-your-face manner. :-) What's up with having paid your "spiritual dues" for twenty to forty years and *having nothing to say about your everyday spiritual life*? Doesn't that strike you as more than a little SAD? Is the only source of inspiration in your life stories from 20-30 years ago, or stories that you read in some scripture or book about someone you never even *met*? As for *arguing* about these things, give me a break. How can anyone consider someone who never *met* a certain spiritual teacher "authoritative" about what he or she taught? That's like believing you can look something up on Wikipedia and be an "expert" about it. Similarly, how can anyone criticize the few here who *do* write creatively about their own experiences from time to time when *they never have*. The *priorities* on these spiritual forums sometimes dismay me. People who tend to be narcissistic and wordy and who post a lot get considered to be "authorities," when in reali
