On 9/16/2011 12:27 AM, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
...although the books by Piston and Rimsky-Korsakov'll do in a pinch!
Actually these days I find that for notational information as well as
range information and playing techniques, Andrew Stiller's Handbook of
Instrumentation to be much
There is a great little book, 'Orchestral Technique' by Gordon Jacob too.
Rimsky Korsakov is available online:
http://www.garritan.com/index.php?option=com_wrapperview=wrapperItemid=34
and a Jazz arranging course by (our own!) wonderful Chuck Israels:
At 6:35 AM -0400 9/16/11, David H. Bailey wrote:
On 9/16/2011 12:27 AM, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
...although the books by Piston and Rimsky-Korsakov'll do in a pinch!
Actually these days I find that for notational information as well as
range information and playing techniques, Andrew
On 9/16/2011 2:17 PM, John Howell wrote:
[snip] And I certainly agree about Andrew's book,
although I made the mistake of buying it on disk
and would MUCH rather have it sitting ready to
pick up in my bookcase.
I value it so much, I bought it twice -- once in paper form and then as
soon as it
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 2:17 PM, John Howell john.how...@vt.edu wrote:
familiar with Piston. But of course any
first-semester orchestration course has to spend
hours on the ranges and transpositions, while in
my Vocal-Choral Arranging class I have the
students actually ARRANGING short
At 4:01 PM -0400 9/16/11, Raymond Horton wrote:
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 2:17 PM, John Howell john.how...@vt.edu wrote:
familiar with Piston. But of course any
first-semester orchestration course has to spend
hours on the ranges and transpositions, while in
my Vocal-Choral Arranging class
At 9:40 AM -0500 9/14/11, Patrick Sheehan wrote:
My question is: WHY is this treble 8 clef used in printed
music today when it used to be printed in bass clef most of the time. And,
does this bother anyone else, and do you agree that it should be abolished?
Hi, Patrick. Although I'm not a
At 9/14/2011 10:13 PM, Scott wrote:
As for my personal tastes, having performed pieces ranging from the
medieval to the modern, my first choice would of course be the tenor clef.
But, when forced to make a choice between the bass clef and the treble 8
clef, I very much prefer reading the
At 5:22 PM -1000 9/14/11, Bruce Kau wrote:
I think as a composer, you need to consider how
your piece will be performed, and make it easier for the performer to
understand, whether or not they are reading for sight-singing or not.
The less time spent explaining everything, the better for the
At 12:18 PM -0700 9/14/11, Ryan wrote:
I think part of the issue is that treble clef is used with the
properties of the treble8. There's no distinction made between the two
and the tenor voice is essentially treated as a transposing instrument
(sounding an octave lower). That practice is used
Apologies for not citing the writer, but
apparently I didn't save the post I had intended
to. Just a small correction for someone
regarding the labels usually used for the 9
movable clefs.
C on the bottom line is usually called the
Soprano Clef. That's the clef Bach used for his
soprano
Raymond Horton wrote:
I do recall a small publishing company (name forgotten) in the 1980's that
put out some SATB church anthems printed with Treb,Treb,Bs,Bs clefs, and it
WAS particularly easy to play those on piano (these particular anthems had
conservative ranges, so the leger lines were not
Ryan wrote:
I think part of the issue is that treble clef is used with the
properties of the treble8. There's no distinction made between the two
and the tenor voice is essentially treated as a transposing instrument
(sounding an octave lower). That practice is used numerous times for
solo tenor
At 1:02 PM -0700 9/15/11, Mark D Lew wrote:
I can't recall it mentioned in this thread yet,
but there are various ways to indicate that a
treble clef sounds 8vb below. The little 8
below the clef I think is a relatively modern
development, and I think it's only with the
advent of digital
On 15 Sep 2011 at 17:57, John Howell wrote:
[]
Another method--and it may have been Novello--was
to use two treble clefs side by side, presumably
assuming that they would weight twice as much as
a single treble clef and thus sink down an octave
in pitch!!
This also conflicted with an
*The little-8 notation is by far the most exact
(and in theory should be used for piccolo, string
bass, guitar and bass guitar parts, but there's
too much tradition behind the conventional
**notation for those instruments).
*
*
*
I know what you're getting at, but wouldn't it be more accurate to
At 3:38 PM -0700 9/15/11, Ryan wrote:
*The little-8 notation is by far the most exact
(and in theory should be used for piccolo, string
bass, guitar and bass guitar parts, but there's
too much tradition behind the conventional
**notation for those instruments).
*
*
*
I know what you're getting at,
And does anyone put a little 15 on top of the treble clef when they write for
glockenspiel? :)
ajr
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
At 1:14 AM + 9/16/11, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
And does anyone put a little 15 on top of the
treble clef when they write for glockenspiel? :)
ajr
That's also grandfathered in by tradition. And
don't forget xylophone! There are still some
things you just have to learn in
...although the books by Piston and Rimsky-Korsakov'll do in a pinch!
ajr
John Howell john.how...@vt.edu wrote:
At 1:14 AM + 9/16/11, arabus...@austin.rr.com wrote:
And does anyone put a little 15 on top of the
treble clef when they write for glockenspiel? :)
ajr
That's also
Curious. I sang a church choir for several years (back in the 80s) and I
never saw anything but tenor-treble unless the tenor and bass part were
combined on a staff. Of course if J. S. Bach could contribute to this list,
he would probably lament the loss of the tenor clef, which is so suited to
Since I am used to reading trombone parts with ledger lines, and since I
studied 4 part harmony using two voices in each clef, I prefer to see parts for
tenor voice written in bass clef too. It does make more sense to my eye, I
don't know what the historical precedent for the practice of
Is it because of ledger lines in bass clef running into the lyrics on the alto
parts? Tenors live above middle C a lot of the time.
Chuck
On Sep 14, 2011, at 7:40 AM, Patrick Sheehan wrote:
To All Choirmasters out there:
Part of my work for the past 10+ years has been accompanying
I think it is useful and prefer it to the other options.
It gives the tenors a useful sense of where notes lie in their range.
If I notebash for tenors I play (lightly) the octave above as well as the
actual pitch, because most amateurs and some professionals here the actual
pitch as low.
Steve
Patrick:
I am not a choirmaster, but I am a composer and a singer who
occasionally performs tenor parts. The reason that I can think that it
makes sense relates more to classical choral tenor (ie: Bach, Mozart,
etc) and to operatic tenor parts. Those parts tend to lie more above
Middle C (and
Yes. Also because solo music for tenor voice is frequently written in Treble
8vb instead of bass clef.
Cheers,
- DJA
-
WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
On 14 Sep 2011, at 10:53 AM, Chuck Israels wrote:
Is it because of ledger lines in bass clef running into the lyrics on the
My 2 cents: I saw tenor parts in bass clef in two staff scores (SA
together-TB together) only,
while all 4 staff scores I could manage and sing got the treble(8) clef.
I think that the main reason
for using treble clef is an easier readability of the score, especially
when tenors have to reach
I'm going to have to say as an accompanist for choirs for most of the past
30 years that the treble clef (with or without the 8) is more common. I'm
assuming each voice is written in a different clef. For vocal parts where
the Soprano/Alto is written on one clef and the Tenor/Bass on another, then
On 14 Sep 2011 at 9:40, Patrick Sheehan wrote:
WHY is this treble 8 clef used in
printed music today when it used to be printed in bass clef most of
the time.
Your secondary premise is COMPLETELY FALSE. That is, printing tenor
vocal parts in bass clef is a minority practice.
The fact is
Patrick:
1. You are absolutely right.
2. The battle was lost, decades ago, unfortunately, although the solution
was never bass clef for separate tenor lines, it was tenor clef. Tenor clef
fought a good fight but died in the early 20th century.
Learn to deal with it, as with all arbitrary
I'm not a choirmaster, but an opera and orchestra conductor. There's a
simple and rational explanation for the tenors being assigned to treble clef
(with or without the 8 attached at the bottom).
The question: WHY is this treble 8 clef used in printed music today when
it used to be printed in
I think part of the issue is that treble clef is used with the
properties of the treble8. There's no distinction made between the two
and the tenor voice is essentially treated as a transposing instrument
(sounding an octave lower). That practice is used numerous times for
solo tenor voices in art
Horn in G in concert pitch: Put in Baritone clef, sounds an octave higher)
(To play Horn in G on Horn in F: Put in Alto clef, play octave higher.
Though for me, it's easier to just transpose up a step.)
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Steve Larsen st...@larsenbein.com wrote:
I'm not a
Steve Larsen wrote:
I'm not aware of any time or place that notated the tenor part in bass clef
when using a separate staff.
Agreed.
I've seen a ton of opera and choral scores from 17th century to 20th, and I've
never seen this. Choral tenors are combined with the basses in a bass clef when
On 14 Sep 2011 at 12:18, Ryan wrote:
I think part of the issue is that treble clef is used with the
properties of the treble8. There's no distinction made between the two
and the tenor voice is essentially treated as a transposing instrument
(sounding an octave lower). That practice is used
Being a tenor, and singing in a wide variety groups, etc., over the years,
this is what I've found with modern printing / editing practices. When a
four part piece is written on four separate staves (S-A-T-B), the treble 8
clef is used for the tenor. If the piece is written on two staves
I would agree. As a tenor, the treble cleff has less ledger lines, and
is generally easier to sight read, although I don't really think that it
makes a huge difference for me: I tend to sight sing by intervals, not
by absolute pitch. Where the note falls in your throat sometimes
throws me off,
The choice has been made - right or wrong, bad or good, it's (8ba) treble
clef for tenors when on a separate stave, bass clef when sharing the staff
with basses, even in the same work. Tenors learn to bounce back and forth.
pianists adjust also.
I do recall a small publishing company (name
38 matches
Mail list logo
