[Finale] beams across staves

2011-12-04 Thread Katherine Hoover
Years ago one would put - say - a run from low to high on the treble staff, then simply pull the lower notes down to the bass staff. The beam would remain, connecting the run across the space between the staves. No more, apparently. Can someone tell me how to do this in 2011?

Re: [Finale] beams across staves

2011-12-04 Thread Christopher Smith
It's still the same. In the Note Mover tool, make sure you select Cross Staff in the menu, then click the measure, drag across the notes you want to move and drag them down. Christopher On Sun Dec 4, at SundayDec 4 9:36 PM, Katherine Hoover wrote: Years ago one would put - say - a

Re: [Finale] beams across staves

2011-12-04 Thread Darcy James Argue
Hi Chris, Actually, it's easier (and you get better beaming results) to use the new shortcut, which is (on Mac) opt-shift-down arrow/opt-shift-up arrow with notes selected in the Selection Tool: http://blog.finalemusic.com/post/2011/06/28/Finale-QuickTips-Cross-Staff-Beaming.aspx Cheers, -

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread dhbailey
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: [snip] Why would they have to do that? Counting is counting, isn't it? Doesn't make sense to me. True -- but suggesting that counting is counting assumes that all musicians are able to think of the counting while playing, which isn't true in my experience. I

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread dhbailey
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Tue, June 1, 2010 10:48 am, dhbailey wrote: But to get to my statement which you quoted, I'm not sure why it should bother you. It seems like a tautology that if the performers don't understand the notation they won't perform the music correctly. I'm talking

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread John Howell
At 5:01 PM -0400 6/1/10, David W. Fenton wrote: On 1 Jun 2010 at 14:59, John Howell wrote: So this is quite a different problem from Dennis's, in which he wants barlines but differently in each part. Actually, I don't think it is. And the more I think about it, the more I agree. [snip]

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread Darcy James Argue
The other issue is one of correction. If the beats are clearly delineated with beams/ties, when you make a sight-reading mistake, it is easy to get back on track on the next downbeat. If you have something like (in 4/4): 3 eighths beamed - dotted quarter - quarter tied over barline to... |

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread John Howell
At 12:51 AM -0400 6/2/10, David W. Fenton wrote: I feel no compunction to avoid converting idiomatic material from the one medium into different material that is idiomatically equivalent in the new medium. I guess that seems to be contradictory, since I said as little intervention as possible

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread David W. Fenton
On 2 Jun 2010 at 11:42, John Howell wrote: I find the independent meters much more confusing than letting the notes themselves define their inner subdivisions. Perhaps this was an infelicitous choice of words, but to me, this is missing the point -- it's not subdivisions that are at issue,

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread John Howell
At 7:46 AM -0400 6/2/10, dhbailey wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I'm talking about a willing ignorance. Karkoschka's book came out 40 years ago, and it was encyclopedic -- a summing up of what was already in use. Dennis: You may have a valid complaint, but at least aim it where it

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread John Howell
At 11:53 AM -0400 6/2/10, Darcy James Argue wrote: Notating that figure in a more conventional way, so that the beams/ties show the 4/4 but the accents indicate the 3+3+3+4+3 makes it a lot more likely that the music will be read correctly in the first place, and helps prevent any mistakes

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread David W. Fenton
On 2 Jun 2010 at 7:14, dhbailey wrote: Obscure those rhythms by beaming to the phrasing and the number of people who can't count grows. Note that in repertory to which its applicable, I have argued that beaming used for phrasing should never obscure the underlying beats. (except, of course,

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-02 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Wed, June 2, 2010 7:46 am, dhbailey wrote: Unfortunately, the book is currently unavailable in either English or German, which makes learning these things a bit more difficult these days. There aren't even any used copies available through Amazon Abebooks has it for $475, with bargain

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread dhbailey
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Mon, May 31, 2010 3:25 pm, Graeme Gerrard wrote: If a program such as Finale can only do a subset of things or things only in a defined way, that helps to determine what becomes canonic. Innovations that composers might have initiated are restrained by an

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread dhbailey
Graeme Gerrard wrote: This raises an important issue in the development of notation. If a program such as Finale can only do a subset of things or things only in a defined way, that helps to determine what becomes canonic. Innovations that composers might have initiated are restrained by an

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 6:47 am, dhbailey wrote: On the other hand, as their teacher, you have a golden opportunity to knock down the walls of confinement which the notation of the past have constructed around new music. Nobody can know everything before getting to a certain teacher, so teach

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 6:45 am, dhbailey wrote: It's all well and good for a composer to feel that some new notational device is necessary for correct communication of what he/she wants the music to sound like, but if nobody among the performers understands it, will the music ever be performed

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Mon, May 31, 2010 9:51 pm, Christopher Smith wrote: I suppose what we are up in arms about is composers (we ALL know them!) who write strange things either because they don't know any better, or are looking for ways to make their music difficult to understand as a substitute for actual

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Christopher Smith
On Tue Jun 1, at TuesdayJun 1 7:58 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Mon, May 31, 2010 9:51 pm, Christopher Smith wrote: I suppose what we are up in arms about is composers (we ALL know them!) who write strange things either because they don't know any better, or are looking for ways to make

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 31 May 2010, at 8:55 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: So here's the problem. Composers are gold you shouldn't indicate phrasing with slurs because string players might think it's bowing. Don't you generally want bowing to coincide with phrasing? You can't add accents because they would

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 10:28 am, Darcy James Argue wrote: Don't you generally want bowing to coincide with phrasing? Generally but certainly not always. When the phrase is longer than the bowing, I will put in a phrasing slur and let the section leader figure out how to split the bowing among the

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread dhbailey
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Tue, June 1, 2010 6:45 am, dhbailey wrote: It's all well and good for a composer to feel that some new notational device is necessary for correct communication of what he/she wants the music to sound like, but if nobody among the performers understands it, will

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Darcy James Argue
Hi Dennis, I use accents, dynamics, and slurs as appropriate, but I also rely on the musical instincts of the performers to find the lines and shape the phrases appropriately. It's obviously easier when I am the one conducting the work, but I also feel that performances of my work where I'm

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Darcy James Argue
Hi Dennis, Certainly that sort of thing seems preferable to a confusing mismash of odd beam groupings that require the performers to pencil in all the downbeats below the part in order to be able to follow the conductor. I should add that this was not my impression of the piece you posted,

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 9:06 PM -0400 5/31/10, David W. Fenton wrote: In the repertory my viol consort plays, we are constantly fighting the syncopation problem, in that the music is actually polymetric, but never notated in any way but with barlines that line up in all the parts. I don't care how gifted a player

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 31 May 2010 at 21:29, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: The first time I sang Ma Bouche Rit with an ensemble (ca. 1969) I realized something was very wrong with HAM's barlines. This was still fairly early in the reappearance of pre-Baroque music, so there we were scrabbling around trying to make

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 31 May 2010 at 21:44, Mark D Lew wrote: There's a song I sing that goes back and forth between 3/4 and 6/8 throughout, and with the voice and accompaniment sometimes not matching, but the whole thing is written in 6/8 and beamed accordingly. I wish I had an edition in which all the

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Christopher Smith
On Tue Jun 1, at TuesdayJun 1 2:59 PM, John Howell wrote: My approach (and frustrations) mirror David's exactly. And for both of us it comes from the fact that some of the music we play, and edit, did not use barlines in the first place, and was not conceived to use barlines. Nor did it

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 6:45, dhbailey wrote: It's all well and good for a composer to feel that some new notational device is necessary for correct communication of what he/she wants the music to sound like, but if nobody among the performers understands it, will the music ever be performed

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 3:53 pm, David W. Fenton wrote: you'd be doing the music a favor in liberating it from notational restrictions imposed on it by the limitations of its creator. Perhaps one of the finest lines you have written, David. I want to put it on my business card: 40 years of

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
Friends, Where John wrote, in part: The major problem is that both Finale and Sibelius INSIST on relating everything to bars, so even if the barlines are not there, the programs think they are, and they will tie notes across non-existent barlines rather than allow simple note values. I find

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 7:42, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: This is a typical hammer-nail problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument and, to return to the original topic, restricts beaming to time signature rules and reveals the gap between practice and its representation. I still

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 4:00 pm, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: I concede that Finale relates everything to bars, but since a finale bar can contain (on Windows, since FIN 2k) 100 whole notes to a bar, I don't find this to be a particularly limiting restriction. This would be true if it worked.

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 10:28, Darcy James Argue wrote: When I work with a new group of musicians (as I did last week), I do have to remind them that any barlines are for ease of reading only, and to read the accents on the page, not the accents they would expect based on the time signature. But I

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Christopher Smith
On 1-Jun-10, at 1-Jun-10 4:18 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Tue, June 1, 2010 3:53 pm, David W. Fenton wrote: you'd be doing the music a favor in liberating it from notational restrictions imposed on it by the limitations of its creator. Perhaps one of the finest lines you have

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 14:59, John Howell wrote: So this is quite a different problem from Dennis's, in which he wants barlines but differently in each part. Actually, I don't think it is. Even though the original notation had no barlines, there were clearly metrical groupings, 3s and 4s and in

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 16:18, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Tue, June 1, 2010 3:53 pm, David W. Fenton wrote: you'd be doing the music a favor in liberating it from notational restrictions imposed on it by the limitations of its creator. Perhaps one of the finest lines you have written,

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 5:04 pm, Christopher Smith wrote: It would replace the Believe me, I hear the passion in your playing, the drive, the dedication. I hear how fervently you wish you were Miles Davis. And I agree. I wish you were Miles Davis, too. that I got off of Dial M for Musicology,

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Christopher Smith
On 1-Jun-10, at 1-Jun-10 5:20 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Tue, June 1, 2010 5:04 pm, Christopher Smith wrote: It would replace the Believe me, I hear the passion in your playing, the drive, the dedication. I hear how fervently you wish you were Miles Davis. And I agree. I wish you

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Mark D Lew
David W. Fenton wrote: But your last paragraph reads like the fears of a timid editor of a critical edition, one who is afraid to commit to an interpretation, and thus abdicates responsibility for committing to one best text. Oh, I was just acknowledging the reality that when you copy a piece

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 9:13 AM -0400 6/1/10, Christopher Smith wrote: The thing that drives me nuts (well, about my students and young composers who bring works in for reading, so maybe I get exposed to it more) is when a perfectly conventional gesture is written in a way that makes it incomprehensible. They

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Darcy James Argue
Hi David, In my music there are generally multiple rhythmic streams going on simultaneously. For ease of coordination and conducting, there needs to be a single common notational meter, regardless of what meter is implied by the individual lines. This happens quite a lot in contemporary jazz.

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 10:28 AM -0400 6/1/10, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 31 May 2010, at 8:55 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: So here's the problem. Composers are gold you shouldn't indicate phrasing with slurs because string players might think it's bowing. Don't you generally want bowing to coincide with

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 10:42 AM -0400 6/1/10, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Tue, June 1, 2010 10:28 am, Darcy James Argue wrote: Don't you generally want bowing to coincide with phrasing? Generally but certainly not always. When the phrase is longer than the bowing, I will put in a phrasing slur and let the

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 12:47 PM -0400 6/1/10, Darcy James Argue wrote: I am surprised to learn that your experience is that performers loathe the square bracket above, which seems to me the most obvious solution to your problem! Please forgive a very traditional musician, but what in the world would a square

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 3:49 PM -0400 6/1/10, David W. Fenton wrote: We still encounter editions that don't get the barring right that are quite recent. Yes. There are at least two semi-modern editions of dance pieces originally published by Theilman Susato, and in both the Galliards are barred incorrectly.

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 3:00 PM -0500 6/1/10, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: I concede that Finale relates everything to bars, but since a finale bar can contain (on Windows, since FIN 2k) 100 whole notes to a bar, I don't find this to be a particularly limiting restriction. Yes, Sibelius will do that, too. (Mosaic

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 7:52 pm, John Howell wrote: That might work if it's a section leader you've worked with before who understand what you want, but it is NOT the usual way it's done. I write what it should sound like. You don't really think I'm going to write bowings just so's they can change

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 10:48 am, dhbailey wrote: But to get to my statement which you quoted, I'm not sure why it should bother you. It seems like a tautology that if the performers don't understand the notation they won't perform the music correctly. I'm talking about a willing ignorance.

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 12:47 pm, Darcy James Argue wrote: I use accents, dynamics, and slurs as appropriate, but I also rely on the musical instincts of the performers to find the lines and shape the phrases appropriately. It's obviously easier when I am the one conducting the work, but I also

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Tue, June 1, 2010 3:49 pm, David W. Fenton wrote: HAM was, at least, quite old, from before the time when this music had been studied at great length. Not exactly great length outside a limited academic world. HAM was only 18 years old when I studied from it, and I was performing this on the

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Darcy James Argue
On 1 Jun 2010, at 9:49 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Why would they have to do that? Counting is counting, isn't it? Doesn't make sense to me. To get away from counting and play with rhythmic authority and conviction. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Darcy James Argue
Great music. Needlessly difficult-to-read notation. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 1 Jun 2010, at 9:30 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Okay, forget me. Turn to one of the masters -- Bartók's string quartets ... the 4th from 1928, fourth fifth movements, full

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Chuck Israels
On Jun 1, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Counting is counting, isn't it? Not really. Some people count additively, from left to right, starting over at bar lines. Others (including me) are trained by their experience to count in divisions according to beats, which can work

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 6:07 PM -0400 6/1/10, Mark D Lew wrote: Oh, I was just acknowledging the reality that when you copy a piece and make editorial decisions, you are necessarily drawing conclusions that the composer might not have intended. Very true, but with a few exceptions that come to mind. As a

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Noel Stoutenburg
John Howell wrote: I haven't tried this, but it could be done as 3 (or more as needed) separate scores exported and assembled on the pages, I would think. But if we're transcribing into modern notation in the first place, I can't think of a reason to do this. Extracting separate parts would

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 20:17, John Howell wrote: Please forgive a very traditional musician, but what in the world would a square bracket above indicate? It would mean nothing to me, so I would have to ignore it. (As David said regarding new notation that is not universally understood.) I

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 21:30, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I certainly am saying that a mere four or five accents marks can be crude and insufficient and misleading tools, and that other means may be necessary to get across the sense of stress or phrasing. Hmm. I was with you up until this. To me,

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread Christopher Smith
On Wed Jun 2, at WednesdayJun 2 12:23 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: I understood immediately what he meant by it. Something like this: p. 4, m. 67, tenor part http://tinyurl.com/2f8g4kn = http://tearesofthemuses.com/Editions/Scores/Trio/Byrd-Walsingham- %e03.pdf It's a case where I want to

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread John Howell
At 12:23 AM -0400 6/2/10, David W. Fenton wrote: On 1 Jun 2010 at 20:17, John Howell wrote: Please forgive a very traditional musician, but what in the world would a square bracket above indicate? It would mean nothing to me, so I would have to ignore it. (As David said regarding new

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 1 Jun 2010 at 23:47, John Howell wrote: [] in the specific case of editing early music, the original notation very often suggests very different interpretations from what we think the composer might have intended, so just as a performer bridges the gap between composer and audience, we

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 2 Jun 2010 at 0:30, Christopher Smith wrote: On Wed Jun 2, at WednesdayJun 2 12:23 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: I understood immediately what he meant by it. Something like this: p. 4, m. 67, tenor part http://tinyurl.com/2f8g4kn =

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-06-01 Thread David W. Fenton
On 2 Jun 2010 at 0:40, John Howell wrote: At 12:23 AM -0400 6/2/10, David W. Fenton wrote: On 1 Jun 2010 at 20:17, John Howell wrote: Please forgive a very traditional musician, but what in the world would a square bracket above indicate? It would mean nothing to me, so I would have

[Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dean M. Estabrook
According to Hoyle, or whoever the expert may be ... is the Re-beam for Lyrics tool now passe? Dean I have opened my soul/To let in the warmth of sound/Now my saving grace Adrian Estabrook, author Dean M. Estabrook http://sites.google.com/site/deanestabrook/

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Darcy James Argue
Yes. Beams are for unambiguously indicating beat divisions and subdivisions. Trying to get beams to indicate other things (syllabification, phrasing, etc) is a tradition I'm very happy to see die. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 31 May 2010, at 12:19 PM, Dean

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dean M. Estabrook
Ah, two things ... thank you, and ... where the hell have I been for the last decade or two? However, I'm probably more to be pitied than censored ... I hit the big 70 next week. Dean On May 31, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Yes. Beams are for unambiguously indicating

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread David W. Fenton
On 31 May 2010 at 12:43, Darcy James Argue wrote: Beams are for unambiguously indicating beat divisions and subdivisions. Trying to get beams to indicate other things (syllabification, phrasing, etc) is a tradition I'm very happy to see die. I'm not as categorical, but that may be because I

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread John Howell
At 2:50 PM -0400 5/31/10, David W. Fenton wrote: On 31 May 2010 at 12:43, Darcy James Argue wrote: Beams are for unambiguously indicating beat divisions and subdivisions. Trying to get beams to indicate other things (syllabification, phrasing, etc) is a tradition I'm very happy to see die.

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Mark D Lew
On May 31, 2010, at 9:19 AM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: According to Hoyle, or whoever the expert may be ... is the Re- beam for Lyrics tool now passe? Are you asking if the tool still works, or whether no one uses that style anymore? I like the modern beaming convention. Beaming to

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
Yeah, really, what *was* Stravinsky thinking? Not sure whose rule it is that beams are for beat divisions. Sometimes beat divisions and metrical divisions aren't the same. I always use beaming for metrical divisions that conflict with time signatures. As for lyrics, I remain of two minds. It

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread David W. Fenton
On 31 May 2010 at 15:04, John Howell wrote: I have ALWAYS used instrumental beaming in my vocal arrangements because it is so much easier to read, and non-beaming conveys no useful information. I certainly do that myself, though I reserve the right to break beams on syllables where it's also

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Graeme Gerrard
This raises an important issue in the development of notation. If a program such as Finale can only do a subset of things or things only in a defined way, that helps to determine what becomes canonic. Innovations that composers might have initiated are restrained by an industry model that is

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Mon, May 31, 2010 3:25 pm, Graeme Gerrard wrote: If a program such as Finale can only do a subset of things or things only in a defined way, that helps to determine what becomes canonic. Innovations that composers might have initiated are restrained by an industry model that is about

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dean M. Estabrook
I knew there was something I liked about Igor ... Dean On May 31, 2010, at 11:50 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Yeah, really, what *was* Stravinsky thinking? Not sure whose rule it is that beams are for beat divisions. Sometimes beat divisions and metrical divisions aren't the same. I

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dean M. Estabrook
No, no my tool still works fine ... which, considering my age is remarkable ... I was asking about notational convention(s). Looks like I just need to adjust to the times. Dean On May 31, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: On May 31, 2010, at 9:19 AM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Christopher Smith
On Mon May 31, at MondayMay 31 2:50 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Yeah, really, what *was* Stravinsky thinking? WELL... He changed his mind a few times about rhythmic notation throughout his career, most likely to make things more clear to the performer, as far as I can see. I don't

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Darcy James Argue
Stravinsky's music is of course notoriously easy to sight-read. [grin] Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 31 May 2010, at 2:50 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Yeah, really, what *was* Stravinsky thinking? ___ Finale

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread John Howell
At 5:25 AM +1000 6/1/10, Graeme Gerrard wrote: This raises an important issue in the development of notation. If a program such as Finale can only do a subset of things or things only in a defined way, that helps to determine what becomes canonic. Innovations that composers might have

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Mon, May 31, 2010 4:06 pm, Christopher Smith wrote: I wouldn't want to put odd notation in front of a sight-reading orchestra musician today; I would want it as clear as possible. So here's the problem. Composers are gold you shouldn't indicate phrasing with slurs because string players

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread David W. Fenton
On 31 May 2010 at 20:55, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: So what's the solution? I just expect musicians to understand that beaming primarily indicates organization in linear time -- *not* organization to time signatures. (We used to call that the tyranny of the barline.) For music that is

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Aaron Rabushka
(We used to call that the tyranny of the barline.) Like Bartók's tyranny of the major and minor modes? Aaron J. Rabushka arabus...@austin.rr.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
On Mon, May 31, 2010 9:06 pm, David W. Fenton wrote: For music that is metrical and an organization according to the barline, it is, I think, foolish to contradict that with beaming, unless the point is to explicitly indicate that something is happening in contradistinction to the underlying

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Christopher Smith
On Mon May 31, at MondayMay 31 8:55 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: On Mon, May 31, 2010 4:06 pm, Christopher Smith wrote: I wouldn't want to put odd notation in front of a sight-reading orchestra musician today; I would want it as clear as possible. So here's the problem. Composers are

Re: [Finale] Beams

2010-05-31 Thread Mark D Lew
On May 31, 2010, at 1:06 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I've broken beams from the beat a few times, when it conveys the information better. A few unassailable examples: 3/4 + 6/8 in alternating measures even when it isn't marked in the time signature (and other types of hemiola), three

Re: [Finale] beams over rests

2010-02-16 Thread SN jef chippewa
maybe the beam options setting allow rests to float could help at least somewhat? i don't think there is anything in patterson beams to do this. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] beams over rests

2010-02-16 Thread Ian Harris
input. You should be able to restore the rests to their original positions. Ian - Original Message - From: dc den...@free.fr To: finale-shsu.edu finale@shsu.edu Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: [Finale] beams over rests I have a piece where 16th rests alternate

[Finale] beams woes

2008-09-05 Thread Ryan Beard
Somehow I tweaked my beam settings so that notes aren't automatically beamed when I enter using Speedy. I'm working around this problem by highlighting the entered music and choosing Rebeam from the Utilities menu. I can't remember exactly what my steps were prior to having this problem. Any

[Finale] beams woes nevermind

2008-09-05 Thread Ryan Beard
I figured it out. I had unchecked Check Beaming under the Speedy menu for some reason. All is well. Nothing to see here. Move along. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-13 Thread Lee Actor
On Jul 12, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Lee Actor wrote: I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure without setting it that way for the entire file. Does anyone have a simple/clever workaround for this? (And wouldn't it be nice if this option could be turned on and

Re: [Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-13 Thread Mark D Lew
On Jul 13, 2005, at 1:52 AM, Lee Actor wrote: I don't think that works in the case of four 16ths where the first and last are rests. Or maybe I don't understand your method? You're right. I didn't realize you were asking for the rests to be at the end of the beam. In that case, I'd do

RE: [Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-13 Thread Lee Actor
On Jul 13, 2005, at 1:52 AM, Lee Actor wrote: I don't think that works in the case of four 16ths where the first and last are rests. Or maybe I don't understand your method? You're right. I didn't realize you were asking for the rests to be at the end of the beam. In that case, I'd

[Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-12 Thread Lee Actor
I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure without setting it that way for the entire file. Does anyone have a simple/clever workaround for this? (And wouldn't it be nice if this option could be turned on and off for selected measures within a piece?) Lee Actor

Re: [Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-12 Thread dhbailey
Lee Actor wrote: I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure without setting it that way for the entire file. Does anyone have a simple/clever workaround for this? (And wouldn't it be nice if this option could be turned on and off for selected measures within a

RE: [Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-12 Thread Lee Actor
I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure without setting it that way for the entire file. Does anyone have a simple/clever workaround for this? (And wouldn't it be nice if this option could be turned on and off for selected measures within a piece?)

Re: [Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-12 Thread Owain Sutton
Lee Actor wrote: I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure without setting it that way for the entire file. Does anyone have a simple/clever workaround for this? (And wouldn't it be nice if this option could be turned on and off for selected measures within a

Re: [Finale] Beams over rests

2005-07-12 Thread Mark D Lew
On Jul 12, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Lee Actor wrote: I want to extend 16th note beams over rests in one particular measure without setting it that way for the entire file. Does anyone have a simple/clever workaround for this? (And wouldn't it be nice if this option could be turned on and off for