FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stephen O'Brien]

Hi,

I have noticed that if there is a text inset marker at the beginning of a 
paragraph (ex. A title) and it precedes a cross-reference marker, the 
cross-reference marker may become invalid (unseen, unconsidered). The trick is 
to copy the cross-reference marker to another position in the title. 

Have a good one! 

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur ? la documentation et r?dacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
T (1) 418.688.2061


-Message d'origine-
De?: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] De la part de Alison Craig
Envoy??: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 6:26 PM
??: Scott Turner; Robert Lauriston
Cc?: Framers
Objet?: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
>> xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
>> well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
>> with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
>> of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
>> generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
> 
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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stephen O'Brien]

Hi,

I have noticed that if there is a text inset marker at the beginning of a 
paragraph (ex. A title) and it precedes a cross-reference marker, the 
cross-reference marker may become invalid (unseen, unconsidered). The trick is 
to copy the cross-reference marker to another position in the title. 

Have a good one! 

Stephen O'BRIEN
Coordonnateur à la documentation et rédacteur technique senior | Documentation 
Coordinator and Senior Technical Writer
T (1) 418.688.2061


-Message d'origine-
De : framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] De la part de Alison Craig
Envoyé : Tuesday, October 01, 2013 6:26 PM
À : Scott Turner; Robert Lauriston
Cc : Framers
Objet : RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
>> xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
>> well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
>> with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
>> of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
>> generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
> 
> 
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Re: FM 8: Index ... Another syntax question

[Robert Lauriston]

Are they formatted wrong or missing entirely? If missing, check to
make sure you didn't actually set those to some other marker type.
That has happened to me many times.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 5:19 AM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> My entire index is ready to go, except for 3 entries
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Re: FM 8: In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers

[Robert Lauriston]

I don't know, but dot leaders in an index seems very eccentric and
likely to make it much less readable.

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:48 AM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I now have my index working properly … I’ll write more on that just as soon
> as I finish up this project.
>
> Meanwhile, I have a small problem in the index. I have formatted my index
> entries with right-aligned tabs with leader dots. When an entry appears on
> several pages, such that the page numbers must wrap, then on the second line
> an extra set of leader dots appears. It looks something like this:
>
>  Entry . . . . . 16, 27, 42,
>  71, . . . . . . . . . . . . 119
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FM 8: Index ... Another syntax question

[Robert Lauriston]

Are they formatted wrong or missing entirely? If missing, check to
make sure you didn't actually set those to some other marker type.
That has happened to me many times.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 5:19 AM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> My entire index is ready to go, except for 3 entries

FM 8: In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers

[Fred Ridder]

IMO, this is one prime reason not to use tabs to separate page numbers from the 
text of index entries. What presentation would be visually logical for the 
continuation line? Even if the continuation line does not split the page 
numbers into two groups, what in the world do you do about the leader dots? The 
result of using a right-aligned tab looks wrong whether the continuation line 
includes them or eliminates them. 

The only time I, personally, would ever consider using tabs in an index is when 
the page design uses a column width that is wide enough to guarantee no 
line-wrapped entries. And in that particular case I would still avoid the tab 
because I think that the wide separation between entries and page numbers would 
make the index much harder to read and use. 

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8:  In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 10:48:47 -0700

Greetings,

I now have my index working properly ? I?ll write more on that just as soon as 
I finish up this project. 

Meanwhile, I have a small problem in the index. I have formatted my index 
entries with right-aligned tabs with leader dots. When an entry appears on 
several pages, such that the page numbers must wrap, then on the second line an 
extra set of leader dots appears. It looks something like this:

 Entry . . . . . 16, 27, 42,
 71, . . . . . . . . . . . . 119

With text symbols displayed, I see that the marker and tab character preceding 
?71? both appear on the line above, following ?42, ?. 

I?m guessing that there is a better way to set this up, so that this anomaly 
does not occur. But does the solution lie in changing the paragraph tag, or 
perhaps elsewhere? I tried changing the alignment setting from left justified 
to justified, but that did not help.

Input greatly appreciated!

Thank you kindly,
Elchanan
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FM 8: Index ... Another syntax question

[Fred Ridder]

It would help if you told us what the incorrect result *does* look like. You 
tell us the content of the marker and the desired result, but not what result 
you are actually getting. 

BTW, why are you including the comma in the italicized part of the index entry? 
It's not part of the title itself.

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8:  Index ... Another syntax question
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 05:19:43 -0700

Can anybody see a mistake here:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine

? The result is supposed to like:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine 123

The matching entries that look like:

Paine, Thomas, American Crisis

all work just fine. 

My entire index is ready to go, except for 3 entries that look just like this 
one, all writings of Thomas Paine. Maybe someone at Adobe doesn?t like Thomas 
Paine? :):) 

Yes ? the ?Emphasis? chartag is defined in the index, and well used, in fact.

Thanks,
Elchanan
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RE: FM 8: In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers

[Fred Ridder]

IMO, this is one prime reason not to use tabs to separate page numbers from the 
text of index entries. What presentation would be visually logical for the 
continuation line? Even if the continuation line does not split the page 
numbers into two groups, what in the world do you do about the leader dots? The 
result of using a right-aligned tab looks wrong whether the continuation line 
includes them or eliminates them. 

The only time I, personally, would ever consider using tabs in an index is when 
the page design uses a column width that is wide enough to guarantee no 
line-wrapped entries. And in that particular case I would still avoid the tab 
because I think that the wide separation between entries and page numbers would 
make the index much harder to read and use. 

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8:  In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 10:48:47 -0700

Greetings,

I now have my index working properly … I’ll write more on that just as soon as 
I finish up this project. 

Meanwhile, I have a small problem in the index. I have formatted my index 
entries with right-aligned tabs with leader dots. When an entry appears on 
several pages, such that the page numbers must wrap, then on the second line an 
extra set of leader dots appears. It looks something like this:

 Entry . . . . . 16, 27, 42,
 71, . . . . . . . . . . . . 119

With text symbols displayed, I see that the marker and tab character preceding 
“71” both appear on the line above, following “42, “. 

I’m guessing that there is a better way to set this up, so that this anomaly 
does not occur. But does the solution lie in changing the paragraph tag, or 
perhaps elsewhere? I tried changing the alignment setting from left justified 
to justified, but that did not help.

Input greatly appreciated!

Thank you kindly,
Elchanan
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RE: FM 8: Index ... Another syntax question

[Fred Ridder]

It would help if you told us what the incorrect result *does* look like. You 
tell us the content of the marker and the desired result, but not what result 
you are actually getting. 

BTW, why are you including the comma in the italicized part of the index entry? 
It's not part of the title itself.

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8:  Index ... Another syntax question
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 05:19:43 -0700

Can anybody see a mistake here:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine

? The result is supposed to like:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine 123

The matching entries that look like:

Paine, Thomas, American Crisis

all work just fine. 

My entire index is ready to go, except for 3 entries that look just like this 
one, all writings of Thomas Paine. Maybe someone at Adobe doesn’t like Thomas 
Paine? :):) 

Yes … the “Emphasis” chartag is defined in the index, and well used, in fact.

Thanks,
Elchanan
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FM 8: Index ... Another syntax question

[VLM TechSubs]

Can anybody see a mistake here:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine

? The result is supposed to like:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine 123

The matching entries that look like:

Paine, Thomas, American Crisis

all work just fine. 

My entire index is ready to go, except for 3 entries that look just like this 
one, all writings of Thomas Paine. Maybe someone at
Adobe doesn't like Thomas Paine? :):) 

Yes . the "Emphasis" chartag is defined in the index, and well used, in fact.

Thanks,
Elchanan

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FM 8: Index ... Another syntax question

[VLM TechSubs]

Can anybody see a mistake here:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine

? The result is supposed to like:

American Crisis, by Thomas Paine 123

The matching entries that look like:

Paine, Thomas, American Crisis

all work just fine. 

My entire index is ready to go, except for 3 entries that look just like this 
one, all writings of Thomas Paine. Maybe someone at
Adobe doesn't like Thomas Paine? :):) 

Yes . the "Emphasis" chartag is defined in the index, and well used, in fact.

Thanks,
Elchanan

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FM 8: In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers

[Robert Lauriston]

I don't know, but dot leaders in an index seems very eccentric and
likely to make it much less readable.

On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 10:48 AM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I now have my index working properly ? I?ll write more on that just as soon
> as I finish up this project.
>
> Meanwhile, I have a small problem in the index. I have formatted my index
> entries with right-aligned tabs with leader dots. When an entry appears on
> several pages, such that the page numbers must wrap, then on the second line
> an extra set of leader dots appears. It looks something like this:
>
>  Entry . . . . . 16, 27, 42,
>  71, . . . . . . . . . . . . 119

FM 8: In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings,

I now have my index working properly . I'll write more on that just as soon as 
I finish up this project. 

Meanwhile, I have a small problem in the index. I have formatted my index 
entries with right-aligned tabs with leader dots. When an
entry appears on several pages, such that the page numbers must wrap, then on 
the second line an extra set of leader dots appears.
It looks something like this:

 Entry . . . . . 16, 27, 42,
 71, . . . . . . . . . . . . 119

With text symbols displayed, I see that the marker and tab character preceding 
"71" both appear on the line above, following "42, ".


I'm guessing that there is a better way to set this up, so that this anomaly 
does not occur. But does the solution lie in changing
the paragraph tag, or perhaps elsewhere? I tried changing the alignment setting 
from left justified to justified, but that did not
help.

Input greatly appreciated!

Thank you kindly,
Elchanan

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FM 8: In standard index, tabbing problem with page numbers

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings,

I now have my index working properly . I'll write more on that just as soon as 
I finish up this project. 

Meanwhile, I have a small problem in the index. I have formatted my index 
entries with right-aligned tabs with leader dots. When an
entry appears on several pages, such that the page numbers must wrap, then on 
the second line an extra set of leader dots appears.
It looks something like this:

 Entry . . . . . 16, 27, 42,
 71, . . . . . . . . . . . . 119

With text symbols displayed, I see that the marker and tab character preceding 
"71" both appear on the line above, following "42, ".


I'm guessing that there is a better way to set this up, so that this anomaly 
does not occur. But does the solution lie in changing
the paragraph tag, or perhaps elsewhere? I tried changing the alignment setting 
from left justified to justified, but that did not
help.

Input greatly appreciated!

Thank you kindly,
Elchanan

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RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Craig Ede]

Boy of boy, is this topic burning up the bandwidth!

Have you tried setting up a very simple test scenario where there is one
file and a handful of markers so you can troubleshoot what is going on? 

Craig

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Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

Is there an index marker for "America" by itself? Conceivably that
could affect what's nested underneath it.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 10:34 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> One proverbial "more thing" ... In the mif file, there are actually two 
> markers back to back, separated by the word "The ":
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  > # end of Marker
>  
> 
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  > # end of Marker
>
> The first (3 levels) works, the second (two levels) fails. These are in the 
> same document, on the same page, constructed in what
> appears to me to be the same manner in every respect.
>
> Shall I unsheathe my sword, in case falling on it becomes appealing? :)
>
> Well, not sure what to do next.
>
> Best to all, and many thanks,
> Elchanan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:33 PM
> To: 'Frank Stearns'
> Cc: 'Framers'
> Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax
>
> Okay ...
>
> I closed FM, reopened FM, saved every file in the book as mif, closed FM, 
> moved all the .fm files to another directory, relaunched
> FM, opened and saved the book and each file back as .fm, saved and closed 
> everything, shut FM, relaunched FM, reopened everything,
> saved everything, generated, and poof ... same result.
>
> Sigh ... (again)
>
> So as Frank suggested, I traced one of the faulty markers into the mif file 
> for the source chapter, and it says:
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  > # end of Marker
>
> which looks fine to me, but someone more knowledgeable might spot something 
> that I'm missing.
>
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! And Frank, if you really are 
> willing to look at the file, I'd be most grateful and eager.
> :)
>
> Best to all,
> Elchanan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:59 PM
> To: 'Frank Stearns'
> Cc: 'Framers'
> Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax
>
> Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, 
> no problem. Will write more in a bit.
> Elchanan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
> To: 'Frank Stearns'
> Cc: 'Framers'
> Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax
>
> Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!
>
> More info:
>
> 1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
> problem. It appears in the "correct" location
> alphabetically, it just looks like
>
> . . . . . . 1
>
> 2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 
> 100% of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
> FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the 
> like. FYI, the ToC works just fine.
>
> 3. I just did the following:
>
> 3.1 Shut Frame.
> 3.2 Relaunched Frame.
> 3.3 Opened book file.
> 3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
> through those.
> 3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
> 3.6 Generated ToC and index.
> 3.7 Saved all files in book.
> 3.8 Opened index.
> 3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a 
> compound marker (2 entries in one marker).
> 3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
> words away, and manually typed in the text for the
> marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
> 3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
> generate.
> 3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
> when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
> new marker I just created.
> 3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, 
> delete it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
> process, same result.
> 3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened 
> from mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
> book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
> as before.
>
> Sigh ...
>
> BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)
>
> Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten 
> how to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
> ??

RE: QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[Harro de Jong]

VLM TechSubs wrote:

> 
> Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting
> character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no
> longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I
> don’t wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a 
> thin
> space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a
> nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
> that
> will not have any adverse effect?


This shouldn't be necessary. Frame will not trip over an empty paragraph. And 
when you refer to an empty paragraph, a marker will be placed in the paragraph 
and it won't be empty anymore. 
You're better off switching on View->Text Symbols so you can see where the 
empty paragraphs (and markers) are. 

But why refer to empty headings in the first place? I assume you don't know yet 
what the title will be, but if that's the case, how can you refer to something 
if you haven't decided what you will be referring to? 


Harro de Jong
Triview
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Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

Did you create the index from scratch with the Add File > Generated
Index command?
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Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[John Sgammato]

I am with Jeremy on this - I have seen some instances of screwy behavior
when index entries are combined in a marker. These days I always put a
single entry in any marker.


On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith  wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:20:05 -0700, "VLM TechSubs"
>  wrote:
>
> >Could there be a problem with
> >putting two separate entries of such construction
> >into a single index marker?
>
> Are they separated with a semicolon?  And no extra
> semis before or after?  That should work, but we
> consider keeping them one per marker, preferably
> with at least one char of real text between markers
> so you can see how many you have, to be best practice.
>
> -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
>   http://mif2go.com/
> ___
>
>
> You are currently subscribed to framers as john.sgamm...@actifio.com.
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> http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
>



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*t* @actifiodocs 

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Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

It looks like this?

America
  1

Just as an experiment, you might try taking the word "of" out of the
marker text.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 5:09 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> I should add that the result is supposed to look like
>
>
>
> America
>
>Coinage Act of 1965 . . . . . 1
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Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

Probably you need to modify the stuff in the index flow on the
reference page in the generated index file, same as for formatting the
table of contents.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 5:04 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Greetings!
>
>
>
> I’m going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content
> “America:Coinage Act of 1965”. This appears in the index as a line under
> “America”, indented to the second level (correct so far), but with only a
> page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker content into the
> preceding line. I must be missing something, but I cannot figure out what. I
> have removed and recreated the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can
> someone see an error on my part here?
>
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QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[Harro de Jong]

VLM TechSubs wrote:

> 
> Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting
> character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no
> longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I
> don?t wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a 
> thin
> space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a
> nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
> that
> will not have any adverse effect?


This shouldn't be necessary. Frame will not trip over an empty paragraph. And 
when you refer to an empty paragraph, a marker will be placed in the paragraph 
and it won't be empty anymore. 
You're better off switching on View->Text Symbols so you can see where the 
empty paragraphs (and markers) are. 

But why refer to empty headings in the first place? I assume you don't know yet 
what the title will be, but if that's the case, how can you refer to something 
if you haven't decided what you will be referring to? 


Harro de Jong
Triview

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Craig Ede]

Boy of boy, is this topic burning up the bandwidth!

Have you tried setting up a very simple test scenario where there is one
file and a handful of markers so you can troubleshoot what is going on? 

Craig

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

Is there an index marker for "America" by itself? Conceivably that
could affect what's nested underneath it.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 10:34 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> One proverbial "more thing" ... In the mif file, there are actually two 
> markers back to back, separated by the word "The ":
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  > # end of Marker
>  
> 
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  > # end of Marker
>
> The first (3 levels) works, the second (two levels) fails. These are in the 
> same document, on the same page, constructed in what
> appears to me to be the same manner in every respect.
>
> Shall I unsheathe my sword, in case falling on it becomes appealing? :)
>
> Well, not sure what to do next.
>
> Best to all, and many thanks,
> Elchanan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:33 PM
> To: 'Frank Stearns'
> Cc: 'Framers'
> Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax
>
> Okay ...
>
> I closed FM, reopened FM, saved every file in the book as mif, closed FM, 
> moved all the .fm files to another directory, relaunched
> FM, opened and saved the book and each file back as .fm, saved and closed 
> everything, shut FM, relaunched FM, reopened everything,
> saved everything, generated, and poof ... same result.
>
> Sigh ... (again)
>
> So as Frank suggested, I traced one of the faulty markers into the mif file 
> for the source chapter, and it says:
>
>
>   
>   
>   
>   
>  > # end of Marker
>
> which looks fine to me, but someone more knowledgeable might spot something 
> that I'm missing.
>
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! And Frank, if you really are 
> willing to look at the file, I'd be most grateful and eager.
> :)
>
> Best to all,
> Elchanan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:59 PM
> To: 'Frank Stearns'
> Cc: 'Framers'
> Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax
>
> Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, 
> no problem. Will write more in a bit.
> Elchanan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
> To: 'Frank Stearns'
> Cc: 'Framers'
> Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax
>
> Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!
>
> More info:
>
> 1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
> problem. It appears in the "correct" location
> alphabetically, it just looks like
>
> . . . . . . 1
>
> 2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 
> 100% of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
> FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the 
> like. FYI, the ToC works just fine.
>
> 3. I just did the following:
>
> 3.1 Shut Frame.
> 3.2 Relaunched Frame.
> 3.3 Opened book file.
> 3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
> through those.
> 3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
> 3.6 Generated ToC and index.
> 3.7 Saved all files in book.
> 3.8 Opened index.
> 3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a 
> compound marker (2 entries in one marker).
> 3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
> words away, and manually typed in the text for the
> marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
> 3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
> generate.
> 3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
> when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
> new marker I just created.
> 3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, 
> delete it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
> process, same result.
> 3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened 
> from mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
> book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
> as before.
>
> Sigh ...
>
> BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)
>
> Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten 
> how to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Fred Ridder]

Elchanan wrote:

I have version 8.0p266, and no memory WRT FM8 indexing bugs. 

Then you only have the first of the three patches that were released for FM8. 
You are missing p273 (Feb 2008) and p277 (June 2008)
-Fred Ridder

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Fred Ridder]

Frank Stearns wrote:

> Finally, I have a very fuzzy memory that FM8 had introduced some bugs 
> in marker handling... Anyone else remember this? Do you have the 
> lastest version of FM8?

I don't have a specific recollection of any index bug in FM8, but I have only 
used FM8 at my current employer, who basically doesn't believe in spending time 
on indexes (we produce mostly API documentation and highly organized 
specification docs for SoC devices). At my previous employer, indexes were 
customary, but that was FM7 and I was relying on Frank's excellent IXgen to 
help me keep everything consistent.

But for the record, the last patch version of FM8 was p277, dating back to June 
2007. See 
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=22&platform=Windows 
for each of the three FM8 updates (which have to be installed sequentially 
since none is cumulative)

-Fred Ridder

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RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

One proverbial "more thing" ... In the mif file, there are actually two markers 
back to back, separated by the word "The ":


  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker
 
 
  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker

The first (3 levels) works, the second (two levels) fails. These are in the 
same document, on the same page, constructed in what
appears to me to be the same manner in every respect. 

Shall I unsheathe my sword, in case falling on it becomes appealing? :)

Well, not sure what to do next. 

Best to all, and many thanks,
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:33 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Okay ...

I closed FM, reopened FM, saved every file in the book as mif, closed FM, moved 
all the .fm files to another directory, relaunched
FM, opened and saved the book and each file back as .fm, saved and closed 
everything, shut FM, relaunched FM, reopened everything,
saved everything, generated, and poof ... same result. 

Sigh ... (again)

So as Frank suggested, I traced one of the faulty markers into the mif file for 
the source chapter, and it says:


  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker

which looks fine to me, but someone more knowledgeable might spot something 
that I'm missing.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! And Frank, if you really are willing 
to look at the file, I'd be most grateful and eager.
:)

Best to all,
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:59 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, no 
problem. Will write more in a bit. 
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-----Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as s

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

One proverbial "more thing" ... In the mif file, there are actually two markers 
back to back, separated by the word "The ":


  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker
 
 
  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker

The first (3 levels) works, the second (two levels) fails. These are in the 
same document, on the same page, constructed in what
appears to me to be the same manner in every respect. 

Shall I unsheathe my sword, in case falling on it becomes appealing? :)

Well, not sure what to do next. 

Best to all, and many thanks,
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:33 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Okay ...

I closed FM, reopened FM, saved every file in the book as mif, closed FM, moved 
all the .fm files to another directory, relaunched
FM, opened and saved the book and each file back as .fm, saved and closed 
everything, shut FM, relaunched FM, reopened everything,
saved everything, generated, and poof ... same result. 

Sigh ... (again)

So as Frank suggested, I traced one of the faulty markers into the mif file for 
the source chapter, and it says:


  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker

which looks fine to me, but someone more knowledgeable might spot something 
that I'm missing.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! And Frank, if you really are willing 
to look at the file, I'd be most grateful and eager.
:)

Best to all,
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:59 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, no 
problem. Will write more in a bit. 
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-----Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as s

RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Yes Fred, thank you, that is correct. One of those two patches destroyed 
sorting in many parts of the product . paratags, chartags,
etc. I decided that I prefer sorting that makes sense to me. I suppose I could 
revisit that decision. 

Elchanan

From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 10:01 PM
To: VLM TechSubs; 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

 

Elchanan wrote:

I have version 8.0p266, and no memory WRT FM8 indexing bugs. 

 

Then you only have the first of the three patches that were released for FM8. 
You are missing p273 (Feb 2008) and p277 (June 2008)

 

-Fred Ridder

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Yes Fred, thank you, that is correct. One of those two patches destroyed 
sorting in many parts of the product . paratags, chartags,
etc. I decided that I prefer sorting that makes sense to me. I suppose I could 
revisit that decision. 

Elchanan

From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 10:01 PM
To: VLM TechSubs; 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax



Elchanan wrote:

I have version 8.0p266, and no memory WRT FM8 indexing bugs. 



Then you only have the first of the three patches that were released for FM8. 
You are missing p273 (Feb 2008) and p277 (June 2008)



-Fred Ridder

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RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Fred Ridder]

Elchanan wrote:

I have version 8.0p266, and no memory WRT FM8 indexing bugs. 

Then you only have the first of the three patches that were released for FM8. 
You are missing p273 (Feb 2008) and p277 (June 2008)
-Fred Ridder
  ___


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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[John Sgammato]

I am with Jeremy on this - I have seen some instances of screwy behavior
when index entries are combined in a marker. These days I always put a
single entry in any marker.


On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 8:38 PM, Jeremy H. Griffith  wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:20:05 -0700, "VLM TechSubs"
>  wrote:
>
> >Could there be a problem with
> >putting two separate entries of such construction
> >into a single index marker?
>
> Are they separated with a semicolon?  And no extra
> semis before or after?  That should work, but we
> consider keeping them one per marker, preferably
> with at least one char of real text between markers
> so you can see how many you have, to be best practice.
>
> -- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
>   http://mif2go.com/
> ___
>
>
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-- 

*John Sgammato, Documentation Architect*
*e* john.sgammato at actifio.com  *c* 508.927.2083
*t* @actifiodocs 

333 Wyman Street, Waltham, MA 02451



  

*Radically simple copy data management *

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RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Frank. See responses inline. 

 

-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:29 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: 'Frank Stearns'; 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

 

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

 

> 1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" 

> has this problem. It appears in the "correct" location alphabetically, 

> it just looks like

> 

>. . . . . . 1

> 

> 2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I 

> put in 100% of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in 

> FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or 

> the like. FYI, the ToC works just fine.

> 

> 3. I just did the following:

> 

> 3.1 Shut Frame.

> 3.2 Relaunched Frame.

> 3.3 Opened book file.

> 3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
> through those.

> 3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.

> 3.6 Generated ToC and index.

> 3.7 Saved all files in book.

> 3.8 Opened index.

 

> 3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a 

> compound marker (2 entries in one marker).

 

> 3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the 

> document a few words away, and manually typed in the text for the 

> marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.

 

> 3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, 

> then generate.

 

> 3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page 

> #, and when I jump from that page number it takes me to the new marker 

> I just created.

 

> 3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in 

> place, delete it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole process, 

> same result.

 

> 3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, 

> reopened from mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in 

> book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila!

> Same result as before.

> 

> Sigh ...

> 

> BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

> 

> Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've 

> forgotten how to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.

 

I know there's a way to do that, but can't recall it. We've always used a 
programmer's plain text editor -- even notepad or wordpad
will work fine. Avoids trying to get Frame to play in a way it doesn't "want" 
to. :)

 

This is all pretty nutty, that's for sure.

 

A few more random thoughts...

 

1. The Word source still makes me cautious. If you highlight text to create a 
marker, or even were to use our IXgen tool to create
markers, there can still be those nasty non-printing characters that would be 
picked up from body text and transferred into a new
marker and cause problems.

Frank, you are correct, at least inasmuch as I've removed hundreds of 
nonprinting characters from these documents. But almost all
were at the end of paragraphs, so whenever I've placed a marker at EOP, I've 
carefully removed any nonprinting characters that may
have been present. 

 

1A. When you hand typed a marker, was the entry field completely clear? (Those 
non-printing chars can be insideous. Click next to
one in the body that you can't see and the marker dialog autofill might pick it 
up, and you'd never know it.

Most of the time, I typed it all in character by character. At times, I did 
begin with a highlighted word or two. But many markers
created in this way work fine, and some of the failing markers were definitely 
created by hand typing, from scratch. I suppose I
could take this entire document set out to a text editor, do something there 
(not sure quite what), then bring it all back into FM
and start from scratch. Ugh . but it's a possibility.

 

2. Forgot to verify the obvious: most of the markers are working correctly, and 
these are just isolated cases? Or, are you seeing
the same thing happen any time you have an entry with a second level and/or 
font change?

Yes, majority of markers appear to be working fine. It happens on single, 
double, and triple level entries. It happens with or
without a font change. 

 

3. Have you done a cold restart of your system? Shut it down completely, power 
supply switch OFF for a few minutes, then a reboot? 

I know, it's crazy, however

Cold restart, yes, long enough to go to the grocery. :) Could do it again I 
suppose. I agree, crazy and however. :)

 

4. In the IX file you generate, have you examined the reference pages that set 
up your entry formats? Are all the components there?
Have you examined the entry para formats for anything odd? If

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Frank. See responses inline. 



-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:29 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: 'Frank Stearns'; 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax



On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:



> 1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" 

> has this problem. It appears in the "correct" location alphabetically, 

> it just looks like

> 

>. . . . . . 1

> 

> 2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I 

> put in 100% of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in 

> FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or 

> the like. FYI, the ToC works just fine.

> 

> 3. I just did the following:

> 

> 3.1 Shut Frame.

> 3.2 Relaunched Frame.

> 3.3 Opened book file.

> 3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
> through those.

> 3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.

> 3.6 Generated ToC and index.

> 3.7 Saved all files in book.

> 3.8 Opened index.



> 3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a 

> compound marker (2 entries in one marker).



> 3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the 

> document a few words away, and manually typed in the text for the 

> marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.



> 3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, 

> then generate.



> 3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page 

> #, and when I jump from that page number it takes me to the new marker 

> I just created.



> 3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in 

> place, delete it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole process, 

> same result.



> 3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, 

> reopened from mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in 

> book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila!

> Same result as before.

> 

> Sigh ...

> 

> BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

> 

> Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've 

> forgotten how to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.



I know there's a way to do that, but can't recall it. We've always used a 
programmer's plain text editor -- even notepad or wordpad
will work fine. Avoids trying to get Frame to play in a way it doesn't "want" 
to. :)



This is all pretty nutty, that's for sure.



A few more random thoughts...



1. The Word source still makes me cautious. If you highlight text to create a 
marker, or even were to use our IXgen tool to create
markers, there can still be those nasty non-printing characters that would be 
picked up from body text and transferred into a new
marker and cause problems.

Frank, you are correct, at least inasmuch as I've removed hundreds of 
nonprinting characters from these documents. But almost all
were at the end of paragraphs, so whenever I've placed a marker at EOP, I've 
carefully removed any nonprinting characters that may
have been present. 



1A. When you hand typed a marker, was the entry field completely clear? (Those 
non-printing chars can be insideous. Click next to
one in the body that you can't see and the marker dialog autofill might pick it 
up, and you'd never know it.

Most of the time, I typed it all in character by character. At times, I did 
begin with a highlighted word or two. But many markers
created in this way work fine, and some of the failing markers were definitely 
created by hand typing, from scratch. I suppose I
could take this entire document set out to a text editor, do something there 
(not sure quite what), then bring it all back into FM
and start from scratch. Ugh . but it's a possibility.



2. Forgot to verify the obvious: most of the markers are working correctly, and 
these are just isolated cases? Or, are you seeing
the same thing happen any time you have an entry with a second level and/or 
font change?

Yes, majority of markers appear to be working fine. It happens on single, 
double, and triple level entries. It happens with or
without a font change. 



3. Have you done a cold restart of your system? Shut it down completely, power 
supply switch OFF for a few minutes, then a reboot? 

I know, it's crazy, however

Cold restart, yes, long enough to go to the grocery. :) Could do it again I 
suppose. I agree, crazy and however. :)



4. In the IX file you generate, have you examined the reference pages that set 
up your entry formats? Are all the components there?
Have you examined the entry para formats for anything odd? If you move the 
cursor 

RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Fred Ridder]

Frank Stearns wrote:

> Finally, I have a very fuzzy memory that FM8 had introduced some bugs 
> in marker handling... Anyone else remember this? Do you have the 
> lastest version of FM8?

I don't have a specific recollection of any index bug in FM8, but I have only 
used FM8 at my current employer, who basically doesn't believe in spending time 
on indexes (we produce mostly API documentation and highly organized 
specification docs for SoC devices). At my previous employer, indexes were 
customary, but that was FM7 and I was relying on Frank's excellent IXgen to 
help me keep everything consistent.

But for the record, the last patch version of FM8 was p277, dating back to June 
2007. See 
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=22&platform=Windows 
for each of the three FM8 updates (which have to be installed sequentially 
since none is cumulative)

-Fred Ridder
  ___


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RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Okay ...

I closed FM, reopened FM, saved every file in the book as mif, closed FM, moved 
all the .fm files to another directory, relaunched
FM, opened and saved the book and each file back as .fm, saved and closed 
everything, shut FM, relaunched FM, reopened everything,
saved everything, generated, and poof ... same result. 

Sigh ... (again)

So as Frank suggested, I traced one of the faulty markers into the mif file for 
the source chapter, and it says:


  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker

which looks fine to me, but someone more knowledgeable might spot something 
that I'm missing.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! And Frank, if you really are willing 
to look at the file, I'd be most grateful and eager.
:)

Best to all,
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:59 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, no 
problem. Will write more in a bit. 
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have seen some 
odd things happen with markers...

1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, unprintable 
characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there
is NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one line in 
the marker?

2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.

3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place (no copy 
and paste). Does that new entry work?

4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, and see 
what all might be included with that marker. (

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Okay ...

I closed FM, reopened FM, saved every file in the book as mif, closed FM, moved 
all the .fm files to another directory, relaunched
FM, opened and saved the book and each file back as .fm, saved and closed 
everything, shut FM, relaunched FM, reopened everything,
saved everything, generated, and poof ... same result. 

Sigh ... (again)

So as Frank suggested, I traced one of the faulty markers into the mif file for 
the source chapter, and it says:


  
  
  
  
 > # end of Marker

which looks fine to me, but someone more knowledgeable might spot something 
that I'm missing.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! And Frank, if you really are willing 
to look at the file, I'd be most grateful and eager.
:)

Best to all,
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 7:59 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, no 
problem. Will write more in a bit. 
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have seen some 
odd things happen with markers...

1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, unprintable 
characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there
is NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one line in 
the marker?

2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.

3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place (no copy 
and paste). Does that new entry work?

4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, and see 
what all might be included with that marker. (

RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Frank Stearns]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" 
has this problem. It appears in the "correct" location 
alphabetically, it just looks like


   . . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I 
put in 100% of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in 
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word 
or the like. FYI, the ToC works just fine.


3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those.
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index.
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.


3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was 
a compound marker (2 entries in one marker).


3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the 
document a few words away, and manually typed in the text for the 
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.


3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, 
then generate.


3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only 
page #, and when I jump from that page number it takes me to the new 
marker I just created.


3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in 
place, delete it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole process, 
same result.


3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, 
reopened from mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in 
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! 
Same result as before.


Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've 
forgotten how to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.


I know there's a way to do that, but can't recall it. We've always 
used a programmer's plain text editor -- even notepad or wordpad will 
work fine. Avoids trying to get Frame to play in a way it doesn't 
"want" to. :)


This is all pretty nutty, that's for sure.

A few more random thoughts...

1. The Word source still makes me cautious. If you highlight text to 
create a marker, or even were to use our IXgen tool to create markers, 
there can still be those nasty non-printing characters that would be 
picked up from body text and transferred into a new marker and cause 
problems.


1A. When you hand typed a marker, was the entry field completely 
clear? (Those non-printing chars can be insideous. Click next to one 
in the body that you can't see and the marker dialog autofill might 
pick it up, and you'd never know it.


2. Forgot to verify the obvious: most of the markers are working 
correctly, and these are just isolated cases? Or, are you seeing the 
same thing happen any time you have an entry with a second level 
and/or font change?


3. Have you done a cold restart of your system? Shut it down 
completely, power supply switch OFF for a few minutes, then a reboot? 
I know, it's crazy, however


4. In the IX file you generate, have you examined the reference pages 
that set up your entry formats? Are all the components there? Have you 
examined the entry para formats for anything odd? If you move the 
cursor through the entries in the main flow, do you notice if in the 
problem entries the para or char tag name suddenly becomes starred, 
indicating a deviation from the catalog settings?


Finally, I have a very fuzzy memory that FM8 had introduced some bugs 
in marker handling... Anyone else remember this? Do you have the 
lastest version of FM8?


Continued good luck with it!!

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! ***
fra...@fsatools.com <mailto:fra...@fsatools.com>
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com
___


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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Frank Stearns]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> 1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" 
> has this problem. It appears in the "correct" location 
> alphabetically, it just looks like
>
>. . . . . . 1
>
> 2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I 
> put in 100% of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in 
> FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word 
> or the like. FYI, the ToC works just fine.
>
> 3. I just did the following:
>
> 3.1 Shut Frame.
> 3.2 Relaunched Frame.
> 3.3 Opened book file.
> 3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
> through those.
> 3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
> 3.6 Generated ToC and index.
> 3.7 Saved all files in book.
> 3.8 Opened index.

> 3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was 
> a compound marker (2 entries in one marker).

> 3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the 
> document a few words away, and manually typed in the text for the 
> marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.

> 3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, 
> then generate.

> 3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only 
> page #, and when I jump from that page number it takes me to the new 
> marker I just created.

> 3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in 
> place, delete it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole process, 
> same result.

> 3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, 
> reopened from mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in 
> book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! 
> Same result as before.
>
> Sigh ...
>
> BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)
>
> Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've 
> forgotten how to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.

I know there's a way to do that, but can't recall it. We've always 
used a programmer's plain text editor -- even notepad or wordpad will 
work fine. Avoids trying to get Frame to play in a way it doesn't 
"want" to. :)

This is all pretty nutty, that's for sure.

A few more random thoughts...

1. The Word source still makes me cautious. If you highlight text to 
create a marker, or even were to use our IXgen tool to create markers, 
there can still be those nasty non-printing characters that would be 
picked up from body text and transferred into a new marker and cause 
problems.

1A. When you hand typed a marker, was the entry field completely 
clear? (Those non-printing chars can be insideous. Click next to one 
in the body that you can't see and the marker dialog autofill might 
pick it up, and you'd never know it.

2. Forgot to verify the obvious: most of the markers are working 
correctly, and these are just isolated cases? Or, are you seeing the 
same thing happen any time you have an entry with a second level 
and/or font change?

3. Have you done a cold restart of your system? Shut it down 
completely, power supply switch OFF for a few minutes, then a reboot? 
I know, it's crazy, however

4. In the IX file you generate, have you examined the reference pages 
that set up your entry formats? Are all the components there? Have you 
examined the entry para formats for anything odd? If you move the 
cursor through the entries in the main flow, do you notice if in the 
problem entries the para or char tag name suddenly becomes starred, 
indicating a deviation from the catalog settings?

Finally, I have a very fuzzy memory that FM8 had introduced some bugs 
in marker handling... Anyone else remember this? Do you have the 
lastest version of FM8?

Continued good luck with it!!

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! ***
franks at fsatools.com <mailto:franks at fsatools.com>
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com

RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, no 
problem. Will write more in a bit. 
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have seen some 
odd things happen with markers...

1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, unprintable 
characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there
is NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one line in 
the marker?

2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.

3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place (no copy 
and paste). Does that new entry work?

4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, and see 
what all might be included with that marker. (Relates to
#1,
above.)

If all of the above fails, feel free to send us a copy of the doc for 
evaluation.

Hope this helps,

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! *** fra...@fsatools.com 
<mailto:fra...@fsatools.com> TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):
800-567-6421 USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com

___


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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Oh, I don't know what I was thinking. I've got a mif file open in Notepad++, no 
problem. Will write more in a bit. 
Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:43 PM
To: 'Frank Stearns'
Cc: 'Framers'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have seen some 
odd things happen with markers...

1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, unprintable 
characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there
is NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one line in 
the marker?

2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.

3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place (no copy 
and paste). Does that new entry work?

4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, and see 
what all might be included with that marker. (Relates to
#1,
above.)

If all of the above fails, feel free to send us a copy of the doc for 
evaluation.

Hope this helps,

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! *** franks at fsatools.com 
<mailto:franks at fsatools.com> TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):
800-567-6421 USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:20:05 -0700, "VLM TechSubs" 
 wrote:

>Could there be a problem with
>putting two separate entries of such construction 
>into a single index marker?

Are they separated with a semicolon?  And no extra 
semis before or after?  That should work, but we 
consider keeping them one per marker, preferably 
with at least one char of real text between markers
so you can see how many you have, to be best practice.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/

RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have seen some 
odd things happen with markers...

1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, unprintable 
characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there
is NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one line in 
the marker?

2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.

3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place (no copy 
and paste). Does that new entry work?

4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, and see 
what all might be included with that marker. (Relates to
#1,
above.)

If all of the above fails, feel free to send us a copy of the doc for 
evaluation.

Hope this helps,

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! *** fra...@fsatools.com 
<mailto:fra...@fsatools.com> TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):
800-567-6421 USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com

___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

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or visit 
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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Frank, Robert, Jeremy, et. al. I so appreciate your help!

More info:

1. I now see that even a simple marker entry "Eisphora" has this 
problem. It appears in the "correct" location
alphabetically, it just looks like

. . . . . . 1

2. The original files were created in Word, but with no indexing. I put in 100% 
of these markers by hand, by myself, this week, in
FrameMaker 8. In other words, they "shouldn't" be affected by Word or the like. 
FYI, the ToC works just fine. 

3. I just did the following:

3.1 Shut Frame.
3.2 Relaunched Frame.
3.3 Opened book file.
3.4 Opened all files in book. Got some font and xref error messages, clicked 
through those. 
3.5 Highlighted, then saved, all files in book.
3.6 Generated ToC and index. 
3.7 Saved all files in book.
3.8 Opened index.
3.9 Found one of the offending entries, jumped to its source. It was a compound 
marker (2 entries in one marker). 
3.10 I copied one of the entries for reference, clicked in the document a few 
words away, and manually typed in the text for the
marker "America:Income tax of 1894", just like that.
3.11 Went to book file, all files selected, save all files in book, then 
generate.
3.12 Entry appears in the correct location, without any text only page #, and 
when I jump from that page number it takes me to the
new marker I just created. 
3.13 So I jump there, notice that the original marker is still in place, delete 
it, returned to 3.7 or so, repeated the whole
process, same result. 
3.14 Saved the index as mif, closed it, deleted the .fm version, reopened from 
mif, saved as FM 8, went to book, save all files in
book, generate, save all files in book, jump to index, and voila! Same result 
as before. 

Sigh ...

BTW, between steps, I recall breathing. :)

Frank, I am most willing and eager to try your step #4, but I've forgotten how 
to open the mif as text in Frame, after saving it.
???

Thanks,
Elchanan


-Original Message-
From: Frank Stearns [mailto:fra...@fsatools.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 6:03 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax


On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as a 
> line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), 
> but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker 
> content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
> cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the marker from 
> scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have seen some 
odd things happen with markers...

1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, unprintable 
characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there
is NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one line in 
the marker?

2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.

3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place (no copy 
and paste). Does that new entry work?

4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, and see 
what all might be included with that marker. (Relates to
#1,
above.)

If all of the above fails, feel free to send us a copy of the doc for 
evaluation.

Hope this helps,

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! *** franks at fsatools.com 
<mailto:franks at fsatools.com> TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):
800-567-6421 USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com

RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Yes, I created the index that way in the beginning, and I recreated it that way 
again a short while ago. In the second instance, I
imported formats from the prior index file (saved under an alternate name), 
except for the reference page. I thought I'd start from
scratch there. But I've done very little, just added the tabs necessary to 
activate the placement of tab characters in front of page
numbers. 

Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf 
Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:42 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Did you create the index from scratch with the Add File > Generated Index 
command?

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Yes, I created the index that way in the beginning, and I recreated it that way 
again a short while ago. In the second instance, I
imported formats from the prior index file (saved under an alternate name), 
except for the reference page. I thought I'd start from
scratch there. But I've done very little, just added the tabs necessary to 
activate the placement of tab characters in front of page
numbers. 

Elchanan

-Original Message-
From: robert.lauriston at gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On 
Behalf Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:42 PM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

Did you create the index from scratch with the Add File > Generated Index 
command?

Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Frank Stearns]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:


Greetings!


I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as 
a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so 
far), but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the 
marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, 
but I cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the 
marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my 
part here?


If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have 
seen some odd things happen with markers...


1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, 
unprintable characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there is 
NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one 
line in the marker?


2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.


3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place 
(no copy and paste). Does that new entry work?


4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, 
and see what all might be included with that marker. (Relates to #1, 
above.)


If all of the above fails, feel free to send us a copy of the doc for 
evaluation.


Hope this helps,

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! ***
fra...@fsatools.com 
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com
___


You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com.

Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.

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Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit
http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Frank Stearns]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, VLM TechSubs wrote:

> Greetings!

> I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the 
> content "America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index as 
> a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so 
> far), but with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted the 
> marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, 
> but I cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated the 
> marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my 
> part here?

If entered as stated, you should be fine.

But, after having specialized in FM indexes for 20+ years, we have 
seen some odd things happen with markers...

1. Was this document originally created in Word then imported to FM? 
Sometimes those converted markers are "dirty" and contain unseen, 
unprintable characters that can cause odd FM behavior. BTW, there is 
NO CR or LF in the entry, correct? Your entry is one string, on one 
line in the marker?

2. Try a "MIF wash." But this won't remove unwanted "bad" characters. 
It will just refresh/rebuild the object lists.

3. For fun, put a new marker, hand typed, at or near the same place 
(no copy and paste). Does that new entry work?

4. If you're really adventurous, save as MIF, search for the entry, 
and see what all might be included with that marker. (Relates to #1, 
above.)

If all of the above fails, feel free to send us a copy of the doc for 
evaluation.

Hope this helps,

Frank Stearns Associates | makers of IXgen(tm) for FrameMaker(r)
*** IXGEN 7-10 for FRAMEMAKER 10/11 IS HERE! ***
franks at fsatools.com 
TOLL FREE Voice (USA and Canada):  800-567-6421
USA Voice: 435-275-8981  http://www.fsatools.com

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

Did you create the index from scratch with the Add File > Generated
Index command?

Re: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Jeremy H. Griffith]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:20:05 -0700, "VLM TechSubs" 
 wrote:

>Could there be a problem with
>putting two separate entries of such construction 
>into a single index marker?

Are they separated with a semicolon?  And no extra 
semis before or after?  That should work, but we 
consider keeping them one per marker, preferably 
with at least one char of real text between markers
so you can see how many you have, to be best practice.

-- Jeremy H. Griffith, at Omni Systems Inc.
  http://mif2go.com/
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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

It looks like this?

America
  1

Just as an experiment, you might try taking the word "of" out of the
marker text.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 5:09 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> I should add that the result is supposed to look like
>
>
>
> America
>
>Coinage Act of 1965 . . . . . 1

FM 8: Index marker syntax

[Robert Lauriston]

Probably you need to modify the stuff in the index flow on the
reference page in the generated index file, same as for formatting the
table of contents.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 5:04 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Greetings!
>
>
>
> I?m going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content
> ?America:Coinage Act of 1965?. This appears in the index as a line under
> ?America?, indented to the second level (correct so far), but with only a
> page number, no text. I copied and pasted the marker content into the
> preceding line. I must be missing something, but I cannot figure out what. I
> have removed and recreated the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can
> someone see an error on my part here?
>

RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks for responding so quickly, Jack. 

 

But, isn't the colon the standard FrameMaker subentry separator? At
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/8.0/help.html?content=Chap12-TOC-Indexes_19.html,
 docs say:


  _  

To create a subentry:

Separate the entry from the subentry with a colon (:). For example, to create 
the first subentry in the illustration, enter
Continental drift:fossil evidence

A subentry is always preceded by the entry to which it is subordinate. If you 
need two subentry levels, place a colon between the
subentry and the sub-subentry. For example, enter Continental drift:fossil 
evidence:dating of

  _  

How does what I'm doing differ from this? I have a whole bunch of these, and 
they are all failing. Could there be a problem with
putting two separate entries of such construction into a single index marker? 
Was never a problem in 5.5.6 (last version in which I
built a major index). 

I'm feeling VERY bewildered at the moment! :)
Elchanan

 

From: Jack DeLand [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:10 PM
To: 'VLM TechSubs'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax

 

Probably misunderstands your colon.

 

Jack DeLand, CSM | 734 972 3026 (cell) | jack.deland (skype) | 
www.linkedin.com/in/jackdeland

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:04 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Index marker syntax

 

Greetings!

 

I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content 
"America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index
as a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), but 
with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted
the marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated
the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks for responding so quickly, Jack. 



But, isn't the colon the standard FrameMaker subentry separator? At
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/8.0/help.html?content=Chap12-TOC-Indexes_19.html,
 docs say:


  _  

To create a subentry:

Separate the entry from the subentry with a colon (:). For example, to create 
the first subentry in the illustration, enter
Continental drift:fossil evidence

A subentry is always preceded by the entry to which it is subordinate. If you 
need two subentry levels, place a colon between the
subentry and the sub-subentry. For example, enter Continental drift:fossil 
evidence:dating of

  _  

How does what I'm doing differ from this? I have a whole bunch of these, and 
they are all failing. Could there be a problem with
putting two separate entries of such construction into a single index marker? 
Was never a problem in 5.5.6 (last version in which I
built a major index). 

I'm feeling VERY bewildered at the moment! :)
Elchanan



From: Jack DeLand [mailto:jackdel...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:10 PM
To: 'VLM TechSubs'
Subject: RE: FM 8: Index marker syntax



Probably misunderstands your colon.



Jack DeLand, CSM | 734 972 3026 (cell) | jack.deland (skype) | 
www.linkedin.com/in/jackdeland



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 8:04 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Index marker syntax



Greetings!



I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content 
"America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index
as a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), but 
with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted
the marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated
the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

I should add that the result is supposed to look like

 

America

   Coinage Act of 1965 . . . . . 1

 

Elchanan

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:04 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Index marker syntax

 

Greetings!

 

I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content 
"America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index
as a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), but 
with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted
the marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated
the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

I should add that the result is supposed to look like



America

   Coinage Act of 1965 . . . . . 1



Elchanan

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 5:04 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Index marker syntax



Greetings!



I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content 
"America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index
as a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), but 
with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted
the marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated
the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!

 

I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content 
"America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index
as a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), but 
with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted
the marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated
the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Index marker syntax

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!



I'm going in circles here. I have a marker of type Index with the content 
"America:Coinage Act of 1965". This appears in the index
as a line under "America", indented to the second level (correct so far), but 
with only a page number, no text. I copied and pasted
the marker content into the preceding line. I must be missing something, but I 
cannot figure out what. I have removed and recreated
the  marker from scratch, to no avail. Can someone see an error on my part here?



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to
>> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After
>> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening
>> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix
>> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large
>> number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Elchanan,

If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause
unresolved cross-references.
Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed
and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing
fonts).

Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?

Best regards

Winfried

From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. 
I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine that would cause the problem 
... would it?

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Greetings!

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again.

Has anyone else encountered something like this?

Thanks,
Elchanan



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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Alison Craig]

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
>> xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
>> well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
>> with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
>> of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
>> generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Alison Craig]

Not if you use X-Ref Markers in the Text Inset file.

Alison

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Scott Turner
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:57 PM
To: Robert Lauriston
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs 
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple 
>> xrefs to other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is 
>> well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes 
>> with intervening generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots 
>> of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. Several 
>> generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as quills at airmail.net.
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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

Ooo, yes. If you use text insets, any xref inside that text inset will be 
reported as "broken" even though it is valid.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 18:14, Robert Lauriston  wrote:
> 
> Which source type are you using when you create the markers?
> 
> Are there any text insets involved?
> 
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs
>  wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to
>> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After
>> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening
>> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix
>> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large
>> number of broken xrefs again.
> ___
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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Craig Ede]

Maybe what is happening is that you are closing the file without saving once
the markers have  been inserted.

 

Craig

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder




But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference,
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located
within that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically
creates one for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine
what is displayed at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the
autonumber and/or the text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself
is concerned, the only thing that matters is the location of marker with the
matching ID. 



 

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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Robert Lauriston]

How about using printing characters, such as an en or em dash, on both
sides? Start the autonumber format with a dash, and use a dash for the
content?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:09 AM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open,
> because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven’t taken
> time yet to fix that. And … as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly
> that this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo,
> my request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into
> thinking that those paras are not really empty.
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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Robert Lauriston]

Which source type are you using when you create the markers?

Are there any text insets involved?

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Greetings!
>
>
>
> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to
> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After
> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening
> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix
> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large
> number of broken xrefs again.
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Craig Ede]

Maybe what is happening is that you are closing the file without saving once
the markers have  been inserted.



Craig



From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Fred Ridder




But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference,
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located
within that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically
creates one for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine
what is displayed at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the
autonumber and/or the text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself
is concerned, the only thing that matters is the location of marker with the
matching ID. 





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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Fred Ridder]

I'll only comment briefly about the use of "empty" paragraphs, which is to say 
that they are seldom an optimum solution to issues or document model 
shortcomings in FrameMaker. I cannot imagine a situation where it makes any 
real sense to be linking to an "empty" heading paragraph. What is it that you 
are attempting to accomplish with empty headings?

But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to 
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference, 
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a 
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell 
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph 
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located within 
that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically creates one 
for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine what is displayed 
at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the autonumber and/or the 
text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself is concerned, the only 
thing that matters is the location of marker with the matching ID. 

You can edit the text in the referenced paragraph to your heart's content--even 
deleting all of the text--and the link will remain intact and functional as 
long as the marker is still there. If you move the marker to a different 
paragraph, that's where the link will now point. But if you accidentally delete 
the marker (or conditionalize it and set that condition to hide), the 
cross-reference will be broken and the referring document will report it as 
unresolved.  

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: wreng at tycoint.com; Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 09:09:48 -0700

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven?t taken 
time yet to fix that. And ? as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly that 
this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my 
request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into 
thinking that those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces 
at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Hi Elchanan, If 
FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may causeunresolved 
cross-references.Could it be that you have a file in the book which is 
closedand which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missingfonts). Does 
it make a difference, if you open all files of the book? Best regards Winfried 
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-bounces at 
lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Perhaps I should 
add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. The process 
called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change 
the index suffix, but I can?t imagine that would cause the problem ? would it? 
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:TechSubs at VibrantLivingMinistries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Greetings! I put xref 
markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to other chapters, 
nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working for a while, I 
do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that were fine), and 
all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is 
well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.  Has 
anyone else encountered something like this?  Thanks,Elchanan 
This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of 
this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or 
take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have 
received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail 
and immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments.
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stuart Rogers]

On 2013-Oct-01 12:09 PM, VLM TechSubs wrote:
> Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files
> open, because some have that font error message upon opening, and I
> haven?t taken time yet to fix that. And ? as time goes by, I
> think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with linking to
> empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting
> characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that those paras are
> not really empty.
>


Elchanan,

I really doubt that putting non-printing characters (or printing 
characters, for that matter) into your "empty" paragraphs will solve the 
problem.  If the paragraph exists at all, then FM has assigned it a 
unique number and will use that number internally to create links.  If 
the target has a cross-ref marker in it, then the pgf is also no longer 
empty but contains the marker with its own unique number for linking. 
You can see that for yourself if you open a .mif version of your files. 
Your "empty" paragraphs will take up several lines with content of this 
sort (from an "empty" pgf containing only a xref marker):


   
   
   
 
 
 
 
> # end of Marker
   > # end of ParaLine
  > # end of Para

There is some other cause for your broken links. Are you saving all open 
files after making corrections, before regenerating files?

Have you tried generating a list of unresolved cross-references when the 
problem occurs? There may be clues in such a list.

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/8.0/index.html (search on 
Resolving cross-references)

Best regards,

-- 
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com

RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Fred Ridder]

I'll only comment briefly about the use of "empty" paragraphs, which is to say 
that they are seldom an optimum solution to issues or document model 
shortcomings in FrameMaker. I cannot imagine a situation where it makes any 
real sense to be linking to an "empty" heading paragraph. What is it that you 
are attempting to accomplish with empty headings?

But the real point I want to make is that FrameMaker does not link to 
paragraphs; it *only* links to markers. When you create a cross-reference, 
FrameMaker gives you the option of viewing a list of all paragraphs of a 
particular style so that you can choose the targtet. But when you tell 
FrameMaker to make the cross-reference, it does *not* link to the paragraph 
itself. Instead, it links to a uniquely numbered marker that is located within 
that paragraph; and if no suitable marker exists, it automatically creates one 
for you. Whether the paragraph is empty or not can determine what is displayed 
at the referring end of the cross-reference (e.g., the autonumber and/or the 
text of the paragraph); but as far as the link itself is concerned, the only 
thing that matters is the location of marker with the matching ID. 

You can edit the text in the referenced paragraph to your heart's content--even 
deleting all of the text--and the link will remain intact and functional as 
long as the marker is still there. If you move the marker to a different 
paragraph, that's where the link will now point. But if you accidentally delete 
the marker (or conditionalize it and set that condition to hide), the 
cross-reference will be broken and the referring document will report it as 
unresolved.  

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: wr...@tycoint.com; Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 09:09:48 -0700

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven’t taken 
time yet to fix that. And … as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly that 
this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my 
request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into 
thinking that those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Hi Elchanan, If 
FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may causeunresolved 
cross-references.Could it be that you have a file in the book which is 
closedand which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missingfonts). Does 
it make a difference, if you open all files of the book? Best regards Winfried 
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Perhaps I should 
add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. The process 
called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change 
the index suffix, but I can’t imagine that would cause the problem … would it? 
From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking Greetings! I put xref 
markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to other chapters, 
nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working for a while, I 
do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that were fine), and 
all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is 
well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken xrefs again.  Has 
anyone else encountered something like this?  Thanks,Elchanan 
This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of 
this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or 
take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have 
received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail 
and immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments.
___


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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Stuart Rogers]

On 2013-Oct-01 12:09 PM, VLM TechSubs wrote:

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files
open, because some have that font error message upon opening, and I
haven’t taken time yet to fix that. And … as time goes by, I
think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with linking to
empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting
characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that those paras are
not really empty.




Elchanan,

I really doubt that putting non-printing characters (or printing 
characters, for that matter) into your "empty" paragraphs will solve the 
problem.  If the paragraph exists at all, then FM has assigned it a 
unique number and will use that number internally to create links.  If 
the target has a cross-ref marker in it, then the pgf is also no longer 
empty but contains the marker with its own unique number for linking. 
You can see that for yourself if you open a .mif version of your files. 
Your "empty" paragraphs will take up several lines with content of this 
sort (from an "empty" pgf containing only a xref marker):



  
  
  




   > # end of Marker
  > # end of ParaLine
 > # end of Para

There is some other cause for your broken links. Are you saving all open 
files after making corrections, before regenerating files?


Have you tried generating a list of unresolved cross-references when the 
problem occurs? There may be clues in such a list.


http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FrameMaker/8.0/index.html (search on 
Resolving cross-references)


Best regards,

--
Stuart Rogers
Technical Communicator
Phoenix Geophysics Limited
3781 Victoria Park Avenue, Unit 3
Toronto, ON, Canada  M1W 3K5
+1 (416) 491-7340 x 325

http://www.phoenix-geophysics.com
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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Robert Lauriston]

How about using printing characters, such as an en or em dash, on both
sides? Start the autonumber format with a dash, and use a dash for the
content?

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:09 AM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open,
> because some have that font error message upon opening, and I haven?t taken
> time yet to fix that. And ? as time goes by, I think/suspect increasingly
> that this problem has to do with linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo,
> my request for input on nonprinting characters I might use to trick FM into
> thinking that those paras are not really empty.

RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening,
and I haven't taken time yet to fix that. And . as time goes by, I 
think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with
linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting 
characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that
those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Hi Elchanan,

 

If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause

unresolved cross-references.

Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed

and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing

fonts).

 

Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?

 

Best regards

 

Winfried

 

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?

 

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

 

  _  


This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the
intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not 
disseminate, copy or take any action in respect of any
information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender immediately by e-mail and
immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments.

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Great suggestion, thanks Winfried. I have been working with all files open, 
because some have that font error message upon opening,
and I haven't taken time yet to fix that. And . as time goes by, I 
think/suspect increasingly that this problem has to do with
linking to empty target paragraphs. Ergo, my request for input on nonprinting 
characters I might use to trick FM into thinking that
those paras are not really empty. 

Thanks again!
Elchanan



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Reng, Dr. Winfried
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 8:36 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Hi Elchanan,



If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause

unresolved cross-references.

Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed

and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing

fonts).



Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?



Best regards



Winfried



From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?



From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan



  _  


This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the
intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not 
disseminate, copy or take any action in respect of any
information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender immediately by e-mail and
immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments.

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QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Scott. I haven’t moved any files, and this was mass breakage of the 
links all at once. 

Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting 
character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no 
longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I don’t 
wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a thin 
space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a 
nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
that will not have any adverse effect?

Thanks to all,
Elchanan

 

From: Scott Turner [mailto:qui...@airmail.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:12 AM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 

 

Scott T.


On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, "VLM TechSubs" 
 wrote:

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Reng, Dr. Winfried]

Hi Elchanan,

If FrameMaker cannot open the target file, this may cause
unresolved cross-references.
Could it be that you have a file in the book which is closed
and which triggers error messages when opened (e.g. missing
fonts).

Does it make a difference, if you open all files of the book?

Best regards

Winfried

From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of VLM TechSubs
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:42 AM
To: Framers
Subject: RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And now, lots of broken xrefs. 
I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine that would cause the problem 
... would it?

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

Greetings!

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again.

Has anyone else encountered something like this?

Thanks,
Elchanan



This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the 
use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of 
this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or 
take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have 
received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail 
and immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments.
___


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QUESTION ABOUT A NONPRINTING CHARACTER (WAS: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking)

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Scott. I haven?t moved any files, and this was mass breakage of the 
links all at once. 

Which has given me an idea. Perhaps I should just put some nonprinting 
character into all those empty chapter heading paragraphs, so that they no 
longer appear empty to FrameMaker. QUESTION: What character to use. I don?t 
wish to alter the spacing (centering) of these headings. I could use a thin 
space, the effect of which on alignment would be minimal. But is there a 
nonprinting character I could use, that will not affect alignment at all and 
that will not have any adverse effect?

Thanks to all,
Elchanan



From: Scott Turner [mailto:qui...@airmail.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:12 AM
To: VLM TechSubs
Cc: Framers
Subject: Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 



Scott T.


On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, "VLM TechSubs"  wrote:

Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After working 
for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening generates that 
were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, 
generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large number of 
broken xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 

Scott T.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, "VLM TechSubs"  VibrantLivingMinistries.org> wrote:
> 
> Greetings!
>  
> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After 
> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening 
> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix 
> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large 
> number of broken xrefs again.
>  
> Has anyone else encountered something like this?
>  
> Thanks,
> Elchanan
> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to framers as quills at airmail.net.
> 
> Send list messages to framers at lists.frameusers.com.
> 
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Re: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Scott Turner]

I never used version 8. And every time my xrefs broke it was either the xref 
marker had been deleted during editing or the relative path had been changed. 

Scott T.

> On Sep 30, 2013, at 17:40, "VLM TechSubs" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Greetings!
>  
> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After 
> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening 
> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix 
> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large 
> number of broken xrefs again.
>  
> Has anyone else encountered something like this?
>  
> Thanks,
> Elchanan
> ___
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SOLVED: FM 8: Right-align page numbers in index

[VLM TechSubs]

On the index reference page, I needed to insert a tab character in front of the 
<$pagenum> building block . in the paragraph tagged
"IndexIOM". Works fine now!

 

Elchanan

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 6:21 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Right-align page numbers in index

 

Greetings!

 

In my index, I've set the paratags for the three existing index levels 
(Level1IOM, etc.) to have a right-aligned tab with leader
dots, and I've inserted a tab character in each of the three corresponding 
paragraphs on the IX reference page, resulting in 

 

Level1IOM.. 

 

When I manually insert a tab in any of the three levels on a body page, 
everything looks fine. But when I generate the index from
the book, the tab characters do not show up in the index entries. 

 

Obviously, there's "one more thing" for me to do. Can anyone suggest what that 
might be?

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SOLVED: FM 8: Right-align page numbers in index

[VLM TechSubs]

On the index reference page, I needed to insert a tab character in front of the 
<$pagenum> building block . in the paragraph tagged
"IndexIOM". Works fine now!



Elchanan

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 6:21 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Right-align page numbers in index



Greetings!



In my index, I've set the paratags for the three existing index levels 
(Level1IOM, etc.) to have a right-aligned tab with leader
dots, and I've inserted a tab character in each of the three corresponding 
paragraphs on the IX reference page, resulting in 



Level1IOM.. 



When I manually insert a tab in any of the three levels on a body page, 
everything looks fine. But when I generate the index from
the book, the tab characters do not show up in the index entries. 



Obviously, there's "one more thing" for me to do. Can anyone suggest what that 
might be?

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FM 8: Right-align page numbers in index

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!

 

In my index, I've set the paratags for the three existing index levels 
(Level1IOM, etc.) to have a right-aligned tab with leader
dots, and I've inserted a tab character in each of the three corresponding 
paragraphs on the IX reference page, resulting in 

 

Level1IOM.. 

 

When I manually insert a tab in any of the three levels on a body page, 
everything looks fine. But when I generate the index from
the book, the tab characters do not show up in the index entries. 

 

Obviously, there's "one more thing" for me to do. Can anyone suggest what that 
might be?

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FM 8: Right-align page numbers in index

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!



In my index, I've set the paratags for the three existing index levels 
(Level1IOM, etc.) to have a right-aligned tab with leader
dots, and I've inserted a tab character in each of the three corresponding 
paragraphs on the IX reference page, resulting in 



Level1IOM.. 



When I manually insert a tab in any of the three levels on a body page, 
everything looks fine. But when I generate the index from
the book, the tab characters do not show up in the index entries. 



Obviously, there's "one more thing" for me to do. Can anyone suggest what that 
might be?

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[Robert Lauriston]

Which source type are you using when you create the markers?

Are there any text insets involved?

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:40 PM, VLM TechSubs
 wrote:
> Greetings!
>
>
>
> I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to
> other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all is well. After
> working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with intervening
> generates that were fine), and all of a sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix
> them all, generate, and all is well. Several generates later, poof! A large
> number of broken xrefs again.

RE: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?

 

From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

 

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Perhaps I should add that this just happened when I added an index to the book. 
The process called for a generate, which I did. And
now, lots of broken xrefs. I did change the index suffix, but I can't imagine 
that would cause the problem . would it?



From: VLM TechSubs [mailto:techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 3:41 PM
To: Framers
Subject: FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking



Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!

 

I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 

 

Has anyone else encountered something like this? 

 

Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Xref markers keep breaking and re-breaking

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!



I put xref markers in throughout a book. These markers are simple xrefs to 
other chapters, nothing fancy. I generate the book, all
is well. After working for a while, I do another generate (sometimes with 
intervening generates that were fine), and all of a
sudden, lots of broken xrefs. I fix them all, generate, and all is well. 
Several generates later, poof! A large number of broken
xrefs again. 



Has anyone else encountered something like this? 



Thanks,

Elchanan

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FM 8: Set ctrl-tab to "last selected"?

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!

 

Is there a way to change the way ctrl-tab works, so that it works like alt-tab 
in Windows, namely, displays documents in
most-recently-selected order, rather than in Frame-random order? As it is now, 
I find this feature worthless, when it could be
extremely useful. 

 

I also find the display provided on the Window menu most frustrating, 
particularly when a large number of files is open. When I
select "More windows .", each time, I get the list in a different order. What a 
PAIN! Did the developers AND the marketers AND
the QA people all miss this? How can that be? (Perhaps this is best left a 
rhetorical question, since there is probably no way to
change this within any time frame shorter than the span of my lifetime. :)

 

Thanks!

Elchanan

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FM 8: Set ctrl-tab to "last selected"?

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings!



Is there a way to change the way ctrl-tab works, so that it works like alt-tab 
in Windows, namely, displays documents in
most-recently-selected order, rather than in Frame-random order? As it is now, 
I find this feature worthless, when it could be
extremely useful. 



I also find the display provided on the Window menu most frustrating, 
particularly when a large number of files is open. When I
select "More windows .", each time, I get the list in a different order. What a 
PAIN! Did the developers AND the marketers AND
the QA people all miss this? How can that be? (Perhaps this is best left a 
rhetorical question, since there is probably no way to
change this within any time frame shorter than the span of my lifetime. :)



Thanks!

Elchanan

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RE: FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Fred, perfect! I now have a PDF file with links that work.

 

What a great list! :)

Elchanan

 

From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 4:39 PM
To: VLM TechSubs; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs

 

How are you generating your PDF? Are you printing to a PostScript file and then 
distilling as per Robert Lauriston's recommended
workaround for your missing Adobe PDF printer issue?

If so, the key step he didn't mention is to make sure that the "Generate 
Acrobat Data" option in the Print Book dialog is selected.
The "Acrobat data" this option is talking about includes bookmarks, hyperlinks 
for ToC entries and cross-references, and functioning
hypertext commands like links to URLs. When you print to a physical printer, 
none of that data is included in the PostScript because
it's meaningless to the output device. And if the data is not in the 
PostScript, there's no way for the associated links to work in
the PDF. So when you're generating a PostScript file specifically to distill 
into PDF, you need to tell FrameMaker to include the
link data.

-Fred Ridder

  _  

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:16:59 -0700

Greetings everyone!

 

I created a book containing a large number of hyperlinks, as text. (E.g., 
http://destination.com/). These are not coming through in
PDF as active links. I do need them to look like normal URLs, and also be 
active links in PDF. Would someone be willing to tell me
how to do set these links up to achieve this outcome?

 

Using FM 8, Win 7 x64, Acrobat XI.

 

Thanks very much!

Elchanan


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FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs

[VLM TechSubs]

Thanks Fred, perfect! I now have a PDF file with links that work.



What a great list! :)

Elchanan



From: Fred Ridder [mailto:docu...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 4:39 PM
To: VLM TechSubs; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs



How are you generating your PDF? Are you printing to a PostScript file and then 
distilling as per Robert Lauriston's recommended
workaround for your missing Adobe PDF printer issue?

If so, the key step he didn't mention is to make sure that the "Generate 
Acrobat Data" option in the Print Book dialog is selected.
The "Acrobat data" this option is talking about includes bookmarks, hyperlinks 
for ToC entries and cross-references, and functioning
hypertext commands like links to URLs. When you print to a physical printer, 
none of that data is included in the PostScript because
it's meaningless to the output device. And if the data is not in the 
PostScript, there's no way for the associated links to work in
the PDF. So when you're generating a PostScript file specifically to distill 
into PDF, you need to tell FrameMaker to include the
link data.

-Fred Ridder

  _  

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:16:59 -0700

Greetings everyone!



I created a book containing a large number of hyperlinks, as text. (E.g., 
http://destination.com/). These are not coming through in
PDF as active links. I do need them to look like normal URLs, and also be 
active links in PDF. Would someone be willing to tell me
how to do set these links up to achieve this outcome?



Using FM 8, Win 7 x64, Acrobat XI.



Thanks very much!

Elchanan


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FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs

[Fred Ridder]

How are you generating your PDF? Are you printing to a PostScript file and then 
distilling as per Robert Lauriston's recommended workaround for your missing 
Adobe PDF printer issue?

If so, the key step he didn't mention is to make sure that the "Generate 
Acrobat Data" option in the Print Book dialog is selected. The "Acrobat data" 
this option is talking about includes bookmarks, hyperlinks for ToC entries and 
cross-references, and functioning hypertext commands like links to URLs. When 
you print to a physical printer, none of that data is included in the 
PostScript because it's meaningless to the output device. And if the data is 
not in the PostScript, there's no way for the associated links to work in the 
PDF. So when you're generating a PostScript file specifically to distill into 
PDF, you need to tell FrameMaker to include the link data.

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8:  Turn on hyperlinks in URLs
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:16:59 -0700

Greetings everyone! I created a book containing a large number of hyperlinks, 
as text. (E.g., http://destination.com/). These are not coming through in PDF 
as active links. I do need them to look like normal URLs, and also be active 
links in PDF. Would someone be willing to tell me how to do set these links up 
to achieve this outcome? Using FM 8, Win 7 x64, Acrobat XI. Thanks very 
much!Elchanan
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RE: FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs

[Fred Ridder]

How are you generating your PDF? Are you printing to a PostScript file and then 
distilling as per Robert Lauriston's recommended workaround for your missing 
Adobe PDF printer issue?

If so, the key step he didn't mention is to make sure that the "Generate 
Acrobat Data" option in the Print Book dialog is selected. The "Acrobat data" 
this option is talking about includes bookmarks, hyperlinks for ToC entries and 
cross-references, and functioning hypertext commands like links to URLs. When 
you print to a physical printer, none of that data is included in the 
PostScript because it's meaningless to the output device. And if the data is 
not in the PostScript, there's no way for the associated links to work in the 
PDF. So when you're generating a PostScript file specifically to distill into 
PDF, you need to tell FrameMaker to include the link data.

-Fred Ridder

From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8:  Turn on hyperlinks in URLs
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 16:16:59 -0700

Greetings everyone! I created a book containing a large number of hyperlinks, 
as text. (E.g., http://destination.com/). These are not coming through in PDF 
as active links. I do need them to look like normal URLs, and also be active 
links in PDF. Would someone be willing to tell me how to do set these links up 
to achieve this outcome? Using FM 8, Win 7 x64, Acrobat XI. Thanks very 
much!Elchanan
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FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings everyone!

 

I created a book containing a large number of hyperlinks, as text. (E.g., 
http://destination.com/). These are not coming through in
PDF as active links. I do need them to look like normal URLs, and also be 
active links in PDF. Would someone be willing to tell me
how to do set these links up to achieve this outcome?

 

Using FM 8, Win 7 x64, Acrobat XI.

 

Thanks very much!

Elchanan

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FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in URLs

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings everyone!



I created a book containing a large number of hyperlinks, as text. (E.g., 
http://destination.com/). These are not coming through in
PDF as active links. I do need them to look like normal URLs, and also be 
active links in PDF. Would someone be willing to tell me
how to do set these links up to achieve this outcome?



Using FM 8, Win 7 x64, Acrobat XI.



Thanks very much!

Elchanan

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FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in generated documents ... after the fact

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings everyone!

 

I created a book with generated documents, but I neglected to check the little 
"activate hyperlinks" setting. I've no idea why the
default is not "on", but apparently it is not.

 

So . how can I turn the generation of hyperlinks "on", after the fact?

 

Thanks very much!

Elchanan

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FM 8: Turn on hyperlinks in generated documents ... after the fact

[VLM TechSubs]

Greetings everyone!



I created a book with generated documents, but I neglected to check the little 
"activate hyperlinks" setting. I've no idea why the
default is not "on", but apparently it is not.



So . how can I turn the generation of hyperlinks "on", after the fact?



Thanks very much!

Elchanan

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FM 8: Autonumbers not auto-ing

[Fred Ridder]

You are using paragraph numbering for your chapter and appendix numbers, and 
apparently have the numbering properties for the files set up to reset in each 
chapter. This is what is you normally want/need to do for things like 
section/subsection numbers and for table titles and figure captions that use 
chapter-item numbering. But it is *not* what you want for chapter numbering. 
This is exactly why FrameMaker introduced the $chapnum (and companion $volnum) 
system variables in FM6. The reset behavior of these user variables is set 
completely independently from the paragraph numbering so that the chapters can 
continue to increment across all files in a book while the section/table/figure 
numbering resets to 1 in each chapter. 

To use these system variables, just use the <$chapnum> building block in the 
autonumber format for both of your paragraph tags (H1 Chapter and HA Appendix) 
in all files, and then set the *Chapter* tab of the Numbering properties sheet 
for each file *from the book file* as follows:
First chapter set to Reset numbering and format set to Arabic numbering All 
other chapter files set to "Continue from previous file in book" and format set 
to Arabic numberingFirst appendix set to Reset numbering and format set to 
upper-case alphabeticAll other appendixes set to "Continue from previous file 
in book" and format set to upper-case alphabeticNote that this *must* be done 
from the book file, because the "Continue from precious file in book" option is 
not available for any individual file because it has no meaning for an isolated 
file, and that the "Chapter" tab of the numbering properties affects only the 
$chapnum system variable.

Or, if it is actually the case that the *only* items that use autonumbering are 
your chapter and appendix titles, you can leave the paragraph autonumbering 
formats as they are and just set up the *Paragraph* tab of the Numbering 
properties sheet as outlined above for the Chapter tab (which now has no effect 
since you are not using the $chapnum variable). But note that if you take this 
approach and need to use some other chapter-level autonumbering, you will have 
to manually control the resetting of those numbering series in the 
autonumbering formats. 

-Fred Ridder


From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers at Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8: Autonumbers not auto-ing
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:33:20 -0700

Greetings, I have a paratag H1 Chapter with autonumber format ?S:Chapter ? 
and a corresponding paratag HA Appendix with autonumber format ?S:Appendix  
for appendices (without the quotation marks, of course). :) When I place 
several chapters and appendices, each of which begins with this paratag, in a 
book and generate, the numbers don?t update. The ToC (or whatever) generates 
fine in every other respect, the text portion comes through, but the numbers do 
not update. Everything is ?1?.  Coincidentally (or perhaps not), these are the 
same paratags that don?t find their next paratag.  Sigh ? either I?m missing 
something very obvious, or something?s rotten in Denmark. And I like Denmark!  
Best to all,Elchanan
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RE: FM 8: Autonumbers not auto-ing

[Fred Ridder]

You are using paragraph numbering for your chapter and appendix numbers, and 
apparently have the numbering properties for the files set up to reset in each 
chapter. This is what is you normally want/need to do for things like 
section/subsection numbers and for table titles and figure captions that use 
chapter-item numbering. But it is *not* what you want for chapter numbering. 
This is exactly why FrameMaker introduced the $chapnum (and companion $volnum) 
system variables in FM6. The reset behavior of these user variables is set 
completely independently from the paragraph numbering so that the chapters can 
continue to increment across all files in a book while the section/table/figure 
numbering resets to 1 in each chapter. 

To use these system variables, just use the <$chapnum> building block in the 
autonumber format for both of your paragraph tags (H1 Chapter and HA Appendix) 
in all files, and then set the *Chapter* tab of the Numbering properties sheet 
for each file *from the book file* as follows:
First chapter set to Reset numbering and format set to Arabic numbering All 
other chapter files set to "Continue from previous file in book" and format set 
to Arabic numberingFirst appendix set to Reset numbering and format set to 
upper-case alphabeticAll other appendixes set to "Continue from previous file 
in book" and format set to upper-case alphabeticNote that this *must* be done 
from the book file, because the "Continue from precious file in book" option is 
not available for any individual file because it has no meaning for an isolated 
file, and that the "Chapter" tab of the numbering properties affects only the 
$chapnum system variable.

Or, if it is actually the case that the *only* items that use autonumbering are 
your chapter and appendix titles, you can leave the paragraph autonumbering 
formats as they are and just set up the *Paragraph* tab of the Numbering 
properties sheet as outlined above for the Chapter tab (which now has no effect 
since you are not using the $chapnum variable). But note that if you take this 
approach and need to use some other chapter-level autonumbering, you will have 
to manually control the resetting of those numbering series in the 
autonumbering formats. 

-Fred Ridder


From: techs...@vibrantlivingministries.org
To: Framers@Lists.FrameUsers.com
Subject: FM 8: Autonumbers not auto-ing
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 23:33:20 -0700

Greetings, I have a paratag H1 Chapter with autonumber format ”S:Chapter ” 
and a corresponding paratag HA Appendix with autonumber format “S:Appendix  
for appendices (without the quotation marks, of course). :) When I place 
several chapters and appendices, each of which begins with this paratag, in a 
book and generate, the numbers don’t update. The ToC (or whatever) generates 
fine in every other respect, the text portion comes through, but the numbers do 
not update. Everything is “1”.  Coincidentally (or perhaps not), these are the 
same paratags that don’t find their next paratag.  Sigh … either I’m missing 
something very obvious, or something’s rotten in Denmark. And I like Denmark!  
Best to all,Elchanan
___


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