As of tonight (June 19th), the HP Compaq web site still lists their
top-end notebooks with Vista downgrade to Windows XP as an optional OS.
My HP/Compaq nw8000 has given excellent service. The HP Compaq 8710w
available now is a relatively costly computer but inexpensive when
you consider its
I know what you mean. My largest client's IT UBER-POLICY steers way too many
decisions in my home computing due to our client relationship. If I had *time*
to do it, I'd go pick up all the networking and Cisco certs I could get my
hands on, just so that I could get this stuff jiving the way I
Rene Stephenson wrote:
They're
rolling out Office 2007 on site, and most of the workers initially
gripe about the interface but then find that it's more like hopping
into a tub of hot water: if you sit there long enough, it doesn't
*feel* hot anymore.
I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw many
The 8710w is a fantastic system. Omit the BlueRay drive and the cost
isn't particularly bad. And if you take care of it and can get four
years of service out of it (typically what I get out of my notebook
systems), the extra cost per day compared to el'cheapo configurations
is really minimum. Oh,
Am I correct to understand that anything more than 3GB of RAM is wasted unless
you're running Vista?
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Dov Isaacs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The 8710w is a fantastic system. Omit the BlueRay drive and the cost
isn't particularly bad. And if you
Am I correct to understand that anything more than 3GB of RAM is
wasted unless you're running Vista?
Generally speaking, yes, with almost all of the Windows XP versions
(i.e., Windows XP 64-bit, of course!). You would need Vista 64-bit to
get more than 4GB.
Also, note that, in many cases, there
-bit
versions of
Intel and AMD processors that removes that restriction. In other words, Vista 32
won't help you on this.
- Dov
From: Rene Stephenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:16 PM
To: Dov Isaacs; Dennis Brunnenmeyer; FrameUsers List
Subject: Re: How FM use
Am I correct to understand that anything more than 3GB of RAM is
wasted unless you're running Vista?
Generally speaking, yes, with almost all of the Windows XP versions
(i.e., Windows XP 64-bit, of course!). You would need Vista 64-bit to
get more than 4GB.
Argh! Above, I meant to say
Trialware/shovelware is a PITA, just one more thing to muddle through when you
buy a computer, as if installing all the gobs of software and plugins that you
really DO need and twiddling with all the UI settings isn't timeconsuming
enough—which is precisely why my new desktop is still in the
to smell pretty delicious!!
DJ
-Original Message-
From: Rene Stephenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 3:27 PM
To: Stuart Rogers
Cc: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Or the old adage
As of tonight (June 19th), the HP Compaq web site still lists their
top-end notebooks with "Vista downgrade to Windows XP" as an optional OS.
My HP/Compaq nw8000 has given excellent service. The HP Compaq 8710w
available now is a relatively costly computer but inexpensive when
you consider
And there are hundreds of Dell laptops with XP in their Outlet store,
which is always my favorite spot for saving a few bucks while
shopping.
Art
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 2:07 AM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer
wrote:
> As of tonight (June 19th), the HP Compaq web site still lists their
> top-end notebooks
I know what you mean. My largest client's IT UBER-POLICY steers way too many
decisions in my home computing due to our client relationship. If I had *time*
to do it, I'd go pick up all the networking and Cisco certs I could get my
hands on, just so that I could get this stuff jiving the way I
Rene Stephenson wrote:
>They're
> rolling out Office 2007 on site, and most of the workers initially
> gripe about the interface but then find that it's more like hopping
> into a tub of hot water: if you sit there long enough, it doesn't
> *feel* hot anymore.
>
I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw
The 8710w is a fantastic system. Omit the BlueRay drive and the cost
isn't particularly bad. And if you take care of it and can get four
years of service out of it (typically what I get out of my notebook
systems), the extra cost per day compared to el'cheapo configurations
is really minimum. Oh,
Am I correct to understand that anything more than 3GB of RAM is wasted unless
you're running Vista?
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Dov Isaacs
The 8710w is a fantastic system. Omit the BlueRay drive and the cost
isn't particularly bad. And if you
Or the old adage that to boil a frog, you put it in a pot of cold water and
turn up the heat gradually, because the frog will pass out before it notices
the increased temperature.
Not that frog soup is on my menu
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Stuart Rogers
> Am I correct to understand that anything more than 3GB of RAM is
wasted unless you're running Vista?
Generally speaking, yes, with almost all of the Windows XP versions
(i.e., Windows XP 64-bit, of course!). You would need Vista 64-bit to
get more than 4GB.
Also, note that, in many cases,
use impacts purchasing decisions
Am I correct to understand that anything more than 3GB of RAM is wasted unless
you're running Vista?
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Dov Isaacs <isa...@adobe.com>
The 8710w is a fantastic system. Omit the BlueRay drive and the cost
> > Am I correct to understand that anything more than 3GB of RAM is
> wasted unless you're running Vista?
>
> Generally speaking, yes, with almost all of the Windows XP versions
> (i.e., Windows XP 64-bit, of course!). You would need Vista 64-bit to
> get more than 4GB.
Argh! Above, I meant to
Trialware/shovelware is a PITA, just one more thing to muddle through when you
buy a computer, as if installing all the gobs of software and plugins that you
really DO need and twiddling with all the UI settings isn't timeconsuming
enough?which is precisely why my new desktop is still in the
to smell pretty delicious!!
DJ
-Original Message-
From: Rene Stephenson [mailto:rinn...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 3:27 PM
To: Stuart Rogers
Cc: Butler, Darren J CTR USAF AFMC 584 CBSS/GBHAC;
framers at frameusers.com
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Thanks, Art. You're right, I'm still warped back in time to the concept that
Vista is the new kid on the block with all the inherent don't buy it until
they work the bugs out cloud.
My main client has UNIX/Linux servers, and I'll be setting up a server at home
whenever the basement finish-out
Hi, Rene:
Windows XP official support is supposed to end soon.
Windows XP won't be shipped with Intel Macs after the end of June, I
believe. I think the same applies to PCs.
So, Vista is not just a preference, it's a deadline.
There's no compelling reason to avoid an XP-based machine. By this
Thanks! July 2nd is closer to my funding availability than this week is. :o)
I have used Dell desktops, and I have borrowed a Dell Latitude from time to
time. I also used to own an IBM ThinkPad (which I loved, although it was almost
prohibitively proprietary and heavy as lead). I saw a Dell
I run FrameMaker on my Mac laptop on a Windows virtual machine using
Parallels software. It's a little slower than in a straight Windows
environment but worth it to me because FrameMaker is the only thing I
need Windows for. I run everything else in the Mac environment and
share files
Rene Stephenson wrote:
Hi All,
My PC laptop is beaten up so badly it's barely stable anymore, so
it's getting time to start the process of identifying the next
workhorse for me. (Yes, I am rough on a laptop and rely on it very
heavily. Any testimonials of your laptop successes are more than
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rene
Stephenson
Sent: 2008-06-19 10:30
To: Art Campbell
Cc: FrameUsers List
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Thanks, Art. You're right, I'm still warped back in time to the
concept that Vista is the new kid on the block with all the
inherent don't buy
Thanks, Peter. I was one of the daring few who jumped into the first version of
the then newly available laptop dual core Intel chipset. Unfortunately, that
chipset was discontinued after 6 weeks' production due to lack of support for
power save features. If I had been more cunning, I would
If you use a 10-key a lot, why not use an external so you can go with
a smaller laptop?
Looks as if there are lots of options, including some that include a mouse...
Such as:
http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll?QUERY=USB+numeric+keypadSubmit.x=0Submit.y=0
Art
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at
Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rene
Stephenson
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:52 AM
To: FrameUsers List
Subject: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Hi All,
My PC laptop
Cool! Definitely a viable solution. THANKS
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you use a 10-key a lot, why not use an external so you can go with
a smaller laptop?
Looks as if there are lots of options, including some that include a mouse...
Rene Stephenson wrote:
I have gotten rather irritated with Microsoft since Vista came out,
and I really am reluctant to get a new PC laptop due to it shipping
with Vista and all the exponentially increased hassle factor that
will entail.
I purchased a laptop with Vista last October. I am THIS
Rene
Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of buying a Windows-based
laptop with VISTA installed on it, hoping to *upgrade* to Windows XP.
In some cases, this is possible, but look into it first. With brand
new hardware designed for VISTA, you may not be able to find
XP-suitable
http://www.tuaw.com/2008/04/16/ibm-considering-macs-for-employees/
___
You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
or visit
Thanks for your candid insight, Sarah. Are any bits of your litany addressed
with Vista SP1?
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Sarah O'Keefe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It's probably worth switching just to avoid Vista. If you can get XP,
great, but if your choices are a) Vista or
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Sarah O'Keefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rene Stephenson wrote:
I have gotten rather irritated with Microsoft since Vista came out,
and I really am reluctant to get a new PC laptop due to it shipping
with Vista and all the exponentially increased hassle factor
]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:13 PM
To: Sarah O'Keefe
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Sarah O'Keefe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Rene Stephenson wrote:
I have gotten
Thanks for clarifying this, Sam. I was thinking of non-Apple Mac
resellers who pre-install Windows for their customers, or sell a
virtual product and a Windows version with their MacTels. The Mad
resellers are barred from selling XP just as the PC resellers are.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 12:43 PM,
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sarah O'Keefe
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Rene Stephenson wrote:
I have gotten rather irritated with Microsoft since Vista came out,
and I
Thanks for the CMS reminder, DJ, as well as the giggles. :o)
I think the Wikipedia article Milan posted indicates XP SP2 support through
July 2010, even though new licenses aren't supposed to be available after June
2008. Maybe over the next two years a better option will emerge from the
690-1711 Ext. 222
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Peter Gold
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:12 PM
To: Sam Beard
Cc: Sarah O'Keefe; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Thanks
I sort of stubbed my toe on another issue that's going to affect this: I have
to be able to synch my calendar, contacts, and tasks to a PDA/SmartPhone. I'm
beginning to think the only choice remaining is wait and pay more total for a
MacBook and next generation of iPhone; or jump right away to
Hi Rene,
If Adobe had done the right thing by its customers and given us
FrameMaker for Mac OS X, we wouldn't be having this conversation, but...
I know several people who run Windows FrameMaker on their Intel Macs
with Parallels. I've not tried it with FrameMaker, but My son had
been on
]
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Thanks for the CMS reminder, DJ, as well as the giggles. :o)
I think the Wikipedia article Milan posted indicates XP SP2 support
through July 2010, even though new licenses aren't supposed to be
available after June 2008. Maybe over the next two
You're right, Dennis. I checked with an IT guru buddy who has done a lot of
reworks of Vista machines when his clients got bitten by one of its bugs and
wanted to roll back to XP, and he said it was a complete nightmare, every
single time, and a couple of times was such a colossal headache that
Rene,
I also have to replace a laptop. It was attached to the network when we got
hit by lightning. I hate that Vista is the only choice that laptop
manufacturers
are giving us these days. So I'm planning to check to be sure that
XP-compatible drivers are available for the prospective laptop's
On 19 Jun 2008, at 21:06, Rene Stephenson wrote:
You're right, Dennis. I checked with an IT guru buddy who has done
a lot of reworks of Vista machines when his clients got bitten by
one of its bugs and wanted to roll back to XP, and he said it was a
complete nightmare, every single
Anyway, with Parallels, you can run multiple virtual machines
simultaneously. Windows XP, Vista, 2000, Linux, etc. Perfect for
testing and documenting different systems and beta software.
And of course, there is the PC counterpart-- Microsoft Virtual PC 2007. It
can be downloaded free at
Um ... All of the Office 2007 software (including Project and Visio and
Groove, etc.) works perfectly fine on my Windows XP system (and on my
Vista system, of course).
I should have written more clearly.
It's not that Office 2007 doesn't run on an XP system, it's that it has the
Hi All,
My PC laptop is beaten up so badly it's barely stable anymore, so it's getting
time to start the process of identifying the next workhorse for me. (Yes, I am
rough on a laptop and rely on it very heavily. Any testimonials of your laptop
successes are more than welcome!)
I have gotten
I run FrameMaker on my Mac laptop on a Windows virtual machine using
Parallels software. It's a little slower than in a straight Windows
environment but worth it to me because FrameMaker is the only thing I
need Windows for. I run everything else in the Mac environment and
share files
Rene Stephenson wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My PC laptop is beaten up so badly it's barely stable anymore, so
> it's getting time to start the process of identifying the next
> workhorse for me. (Yes, I am rough on a laptop and rely on it very
> heavily. Any testimonials of your laptop successes are
Thanks, Art. You're right, I'm still warped back in time to the concept that
Vista is the new kid on the block with all the inherent "don't buy it until
they work the bugs out" cloud.
My main client has UNIX/Linux servers, and I'll be setting up a server at home
whenever the basement
Hi, Rene:
Windows XP official support is supposed to end soon.
Windows XP won't be shipped with Intel Macs after the end of June, I
believe. I think the same applies to PCs.
So, Vista is not just a preference, it's a deadline.
There's no compelling reason to avoid an XP-based machine. By this
s-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rene
> Stephenson
> Sent: 2008-06-19 10:30
> To: Art Campbell
> Cc: FrameUsers List
> Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
>
> Thanks, Art. You're right, I'm still warped back in
Peter Gold wrote:
> Windows XP official support is supposed to end soon.
>
> Windows XP won't be shipped with Intel Macs after the end of June, I
> believe. I think the same applies to PCs.
>
> So, Vista is not just a preference, it's a deadline.
>
> There's no compelling reason to avoid an
Thanks, Peter. I was one of the daring few who jumped into the first version of
the then newly available laptop dual core Intel chipset. Unfortunately, that
chipset was discontinued after 6 weeks' production due to lack of support for
power save features. If I had been more cunning, I would
If you use a 10-key a lot, why not use an external so you can go with
a smaller laptop?
Looks as if there are lots of options, including some that include a mouse...
Such as:
http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll?QUERY=USB+numeric+keypad=0=0
Art
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Rene
Hi Rene,
I've seen people use FrameMaker on Mac, using Parallels (
http://www.parallels.com). But: seeing is not immediately believing for me,
so I'd advise you to borrow a Mac from one of your friends, install
Parallels, Windows and FrameMaker and all the other plug-ins, bells and
whistles and
On 19 Jun 2008, at 16:37, Peter Gold wrote:
> Windows XP won't be shipped with Intel Macs after the end of June, I
> believe.
I guess you mean Dell PCs?
Paul
Writer
OI Analytical
979 690-1711 Ext. 222
sbeard at oico.com
-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Stephenson
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:52 AM
To: FrameUsers List
Subject: How FM use impacts
Cool! Definitely a viable solution. THANKS
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Art Campbell
If you use a 10-key a lot, why not use an external so you can go with
a smaller laptop?
Looks as if there are lots of options, including some that include a
Rene Stephenson wrote:
> I have gotten rather irritated with Microsoft since Vista came out,
> and I really am reluctant to get a new PC laptop due to it shipping
> with Vista and all the exponentially increased hassle factor that
> will entail.
I purchased a laptop with Vista last October. I am
Rene
Whatever you do, don't fall into the trap of buying a Windows-based
laptop with VISTA installed on it, hoping to *upgrade* to Windows XP.
In some cases, this is possible, but look into it first. With brand
new hardware designed for VISTA, you may not be able to find
XP-suitable
http://www.tuaw.com/2008/04/16/ibm-considering-macs-for-employees/
Thanks for your candid insight, Sarah. Are any bits of your litany addressed
with Vista SP1?
Rene L. Stephenson
- Original Message
From: Sarah O'Keefe
It's probably worth switching just to avoid Vista. If you can get XP,
great, but if your choices are a)
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Sarah O'Keefe
wrote:
> Rene Stephenson wrote:
>> I have gotten rather irritated with Microsoft since Vista came out,
>> and I really am reluctant to get a new PC laptop due to it shipping
>> with Vista and all the exponentially increased hassle factor that
>>
...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Peter Gold
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:13 PM
To: Sarah O'Keefe
Cc: framers at frameusers.com
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:56 AM, Sarah O'Keefe
wrote:
> R
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Dennis Brunnenmeyer
wrote:
> At one point earlier this Spring, Microsoft was considering extending
> their cutoff date for XP beyond June 30th because of the uproar from
> the business community. I guess that must not have happened, but
> before you sink money
> I don't know how you feel about Dell hardware etc., and I have no
> experience with their laptops myself, but until July 2 you can still
> order the Vostro models with WinXP installed.
If you do this, be sure to order Office 2003, as well. I bought an XP
machine from Dell late last year but,
Thanks for clarifying this, Sam. I was thinking of non-Apple Mac
resellers who pre-install Windows for their customers, or sell a
virtual product and a Windows version with their MacTels. The Mad
resellers are barred from selling XP just as the PC resellers are.
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 12:43 PM,
at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Rene
Stephenson
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:06 AM
To: peter at knowhowpro.com
Cc: FrameUsers List
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
I'm hearing Parallels and other solutions for Mac are the workaround for
FM dependency; and SPARC+Solaris is the non
--Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Sarah O'Keefe
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:57 PM
To: framers at frameusers.com
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Rene Stephenson wrote:
> I have
Thanks for the CMS reminder, DJ, as well as the giggles. :o)
I think the Wikipedia article Milan posted indicates XP SP2 support through
July 2010, even though new licenses aren't supposed to be available after June
2008. Maybe over the next two years a better option will emerge from the
690-1711 Ext. 222
sbeard at oico.com
-Original Message-
From: knowhowpro at gmail.com [mailto:knowhow...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Peter Gold
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 1:12 PM
To: Sam Beard
Cc: Sarah O'Keefe; framers at frameusers.com
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
I sort of stubbed my toe on another issue that's going to affect this: I have
to be able to synch my calendar, contacts, and tasks to a PDA/SmartPhone. I'm
beginning to think the only choice remaining is wait and pay more total for a
MacBook and next generation of iPhone; or jump right away to
Hi Rene,
If Adobe had done the right thing by its customers and given us
FrameMaker for Mac OS X, we wouldn't be having this conversation, but...
I know several people who run Windows FrameMaker on their Intel Macs
with Parallels. I've not tried it with FrameMaker, but My son had
been on
at frameusers.com
Subject: Re: How FM use impacts purchasing decisions
Thanks for the CMS reminder, DJ, as well as the giggles. :o)
I think the Wikipedia article Milan posted indicates XP SP2 support
through July 2010, even though new licenses aren't supposed to be
available after June 2008. Maybe over
You're right, Dennis. I checked with an IT guru buddy who has done a lot of
reworks of Vista machines when his clients got bitten by one of its bugs and
wanted to roll back to XP, and he said it was a complete nightmare, every
single time, and a couple of times was such a colossal headache that
Rene,
I also have to replace a laptop. It was attached to the network when we got
hit by lightning. I hate that Vista is the only choice that laptop
manufacturers
are giving us these days. So I'm planning to check to be sure that
XP-compatible drivers are available for the prospective laptop's
On 19 Jun 2008, at 21:06, Rene Stephenson wrote:
> You're right, Dennis. I checked with an IT guru buddy who has done
> a lot of reworks of Vista machines when his clients got bitten by
> one of its bugs and wanted to roll back to XP, and he said it was a
> complete nightmare, every single
> Anyway, with Parallels, you can run multiple virtual machines
> simultaneously. Windows XP, Vista, 2000, Linux, etc. Perfect for
> testing and documenting different systems and beta software.
And of course, there is the PC counterpart-- Microsoft Virtual PC 2007. It
can be downloaded free at
Mike Bradley wrote:
> > I don't know how you feel about Dell hardware etc., and I have no
> > experience with their laptops myself, but until July 2 you can still
> > order the Vostro models with WinXP installed.
>
> If you do this, be sure to order Office 2003, as well. I bought an XP
> machine
> Um ... All of the Office 2007 software (including Project and Visio and
> Groove, etc.) works perfectly fine on my Windows XP system (and on my
> Vista system, of course).
I should have written more clearly.
It's not that Office 2007 doesn't run on an XP system, it's that it has the
> > Um ... All of the Office 2007 software (including Project and Visio
and
> > Groove, etc.) works perfectly fine on my Windows XP system (and on
my
> > Vista system, of course).
>
> I should have written more clearly.
>
> It's not that Office 2007 doesn't run on an XP system, it's that it
has
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