Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Is that statically-linked? I'm curious to know the size of the bootloader forth footprint. The loader is about 150k, so I'm sure you could probably fit a nice Scheme interpreter in under that size... ?? ie. almost all of the size is the dictionary/runtime library. I'll bet it's comparable to a tiny, stripped-down implementation of Scheme.. Only one way to find out... ;) It's quite hard to beat this, and to be frank, Scheme's syntax is not much better than Forth's. 8) That's debatable. At least it's consistant makes sense. Syntax is only an argument of preference. I like Scheme better than LISP because there's less syntax to learn. But the original concern was not of syntax but of the number of committers who know the language. I'll bet there are quite a few who know/love Scheme. I think that if a choice is made, to move to Scheme over LISP because in theory it should have a smaller footprint. Not that it makes a significant difference so long as the loader fits nicely on /boot and out of the way of the loaded kernel (which loads at over 1 MB). --Rick C. Petty, aka Snoopy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme Is that statically-linked? I'm curious to know the size of the bootloader forth footprint. The loader is about 150k, so I'm sure you could probably fit a nice Scheme interpreter in under that size... ?? Dynamically linked. Here is the statically linked size: $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 127659 110929236 147987 24213 scheme Hmm, if it's stripped down a bit, it might fit nicely in the loader, replacing that 40k libficl mess.. ;) Here is the /boot/loader size for comparison sake: textdatabss dec hex 4096147456 0 151552 25000 snip But ultimately someone has to do the actual work for this to go beyond mere wishful thinking. I'd be happy to help out (but not take on the whole task) if anyone braves the naysayers :-) I suppose I could volunteer for this. I've been dissecting the loader for months now and hitting the 4th fence has been bothersome.. As far as braving those pesky naysayers, I thought about doing it on my own anyway so if no one wants the change, I'll just keep it for my own systems. =) If nothing else, I'm very curious to see how small I can get a Scheme implementation.. --Rick C. Petty, aka Snoopy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
freebsd I suppose I could volunteer for this. It would be great, but current /boot/loader has also the fancy feature, tty screen handling (see /usr/share/examples/bootforth if you have never seen before). I heavily depend on this feature for the selection menu of boot kernel using a sample menu; without this feature, I cannot make my duplex CD-ROM[1]. It would be my great pleasure that creating a boot menu feature is also implemented in the new /boot/loader. ... or everybody consider that /boot/loader *only* does kernel and module loading? -- - Makoto `MAR' MATSUSHITA Appendix: [1] See also: http://current.jp.FreeBSD.org/#CD To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I suppose I could volunteer for this. I've been dissecting the loader for months now and hitting the 4th fence has been bothersome.. As far as braving those pesky naysayers, I thought about doing it on my own anyway so if no one wants the change, I'll just keep it for my own systems. =) If nothing else, I'm very curious to see how small I can get a Scheme implementation.. I'd at least be curious to see how small the alternatives are. I'm not enormously keen to migrate since the .4th support code we have is fairly comprehensive, but it would be foolish to ignore the options. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Are you guys on crack? Scheme is just a dialect of LISP, where LISP could also just as easily be any one of MacLisp, InterLisp, Franz Lisp, Common Lisp or one of many other possibilities. The very acronym lacks specific meaning without an additional qualifier. Scheme can also dynamically build and evaluate data as code just as well as any other LISP dialect. Somebody needs to go back and take a CS class or something. :-) - Jordan From: Jim Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 00:58:25 -0500 FreeBSD Fanatic wrote: Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. $ cd ~/lang/Scheme/tinyscm-1.27 $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme Is that statically-linked? I'm curious to know the size of the bootloader forth footprint. The loader is about 150k, so I'm sure you could probably fit a nice Scheme interpreter in under that size... ?? Tinyscheme is a mostly complete R5RS Scheme (R5RS is the You can also conditionally-compile the components to make a smaller footprint. I'm highly in favor of Scheme replacing 4th... It's a very easy language to learn (only 11 special forms) yet still powerful (you can't pass code as data in BASIC ;). If you replace the boot loader interpreter, pick Scheme over LISP. There are lots of implementations: siod, scm, mit-scheme, MzScheme, and tinyscheme are among the better ones. --Rick C. Petty, aka Snoopy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I still think that Scheme has far less proficient programmers than LISP. BTW: In LISP, *EVERYTHING* is data. LISP was executing data as code and writing self-replicating programs around 1951 or 1952. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Jordan Hubbard wrote: Are you guys on crack? Scheme is just a dialect of LISP, where LISP could also just as easily be any one of MacLisp, InterLisp, Franz Lisp, Common Lisp or one of many other possibilities. The very acronym lacks specific meaning without an additional qualifier. Scheme can also dynamically build and evaluate data as code just as well as any other LISP dialect. Somebody needs to go back and take a CS class or something. :-) - Jordan oops... mea culpa! not nuff caffine, i got my languages mixed there... jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Bryant writes: : I doubt if the bootloader will ever change from FORTH, but if it : does, I suggest LISP as the preferred choice on a short-list of : potential replacements. It would make it very cool junior kernel hacker task to use lisp in the boot loader... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
In article local.mail.freebsd-current/[EMAIL PROTECTED] you write: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Bryant writes: : I doubt if the bootloader will ever change from FORTH, but if it : does, I suggest LISP as the preferred choice on a short-list of : potential replacements. It would make it very cool junior kernel hacker task to use lisp in the boot loader... Hmm. Other cool tasks include: - substituting TAB for space in correct places and vice versa. - fixing incorrect code indentation. - wholesale removal of _P() prototypes. - rewriting all perl scripts in sh. - using Java instead of C in the kernel. All of the above will provide much needed features and functionality for the upcoming 5.0 release. They will dramatically raise the bar and provide a significant performance boost for the system. After all, it is well known(*) than LISP is already SMP capable, while Forth is single threaded, and it is critically important that the bootloader be SMP enabled. :-) Seriously now, don't we have better things to spend our time and energies on than re-implementing code that already works? -- Jonathan (*) 4 out of 5 handwavers agree on this point, according to the Journal of Irreproducible Results and Department of FUD. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
$ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme Is that statically-linked? I'm curious to know the size of the bootloader forth footprint. The loader is about 150k, so I'm sure you could probably fit a nice Scheme interpreter in under that size... ?? Dynamically linked. Here is the statically linked size: $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 127659 110929236 147987 24213 scheme Note that this is misleading because in order to build a standalone binary you'd have to reduce libc dependence quite a bit. Basically avoid anything that makes a syscall. You can also throw out printf and friends, which will save you over 10KB! On the other side you'd have to add loader specific code (either in Scheme or in c). Here is the /boot/loader size for comparison sake: textdatabss dec hex 4096147456 0 151552 25000 Tinyscheme is a mostly complete R5RS Scheme (R5RS is the You can also conditionally-compile the components to make a smaller footprint. I'm highly in favor of Scheme replacing 4th... It's a very easy language to learn (only 11 special forms) yet still powerful (you can't pass code as data in BASIC ;). If you replace the boot loader interpreter, pick Scheme over LISP. There are lots of implementations: siod, scm, mit-scheme, MzScheme, and tinyscheme are among the better ones. Indeed. But ultimately someone has to do the actual work for this to go beyond mere wishful thinking. I'd be happy to help out (but not take on the whole task) if anyone braves the naysayers :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Jonathan Lemon wrote: It would make it very cool junior kernel hacker task to use lisp in the boot loader... Seriously now, don't we have better things to spend our time and energies on than re-implementing code that already works? But, if we rewrite the bootloader in LISP we can get RMS to maintain it! *duck* -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. $ cd ~/lang/Scheme/tinyscm-1.27 $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme Is that statically-linked? I'm curious to know the size of the bootloader forth footprint. The loader is about 150k, so I'm sure you could probably fit a nice Scheme interpreter in under that size... ?? mass:/usr/obj/local0/build/src/sys/boot/ficlsize libficl.a textdata bss dec hex filename 1053968 04073 fe9 softcore.o (ex libficl.a) 296 0 0 296 128 sysdep.o (ex libficl.a) 20636 268 0 2090451a8 words.o (ex libficl.a) 4472 12 044841184 tools.o (ex libficl.a) 1684 0 01684 694 search.o (ex libficl.a) 856 0 0 856 358 math64.o (ex libficl.a) 2200 64 02264 8d8 vm.o (ex libficl.a) 2804 0 02804 af4 loader.o (ex libficl.a) 624 12 0 636 27c prefix.o (ex libficl.a) 840 0 0 840 348 stack.o (ex libficl.a) 2468 16 02484 9b4 ficl.o (ex libficl.a) 2620 0 02620 a3c dict.o (ex libficl.a) ie. almost all of the size is the dictionary/runtime library. It's quite hard to beat this, and to be frank, Scheme's syntax is not much better than Forth's. 8) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:48:24AM -0300, Daniel Capo Sobral wrote: When I first wrote the loader.conf thingy, I couldn't get the value of environment variables from the FICL environment. ... Anyway, I have been too busy lately to do anything with FreeBSD that is not directly related to things I have to do at work, and it doesn't look like slacking up so soon. So, unfortunately, I don't have time to do any of the little things that have been cropping up with loader. A very good reason the loader should have used something other then a language only 1% of the FreeBSD committers (and entire community) has knowledge of. -- -- David ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On 5/09, David O'Brien wrote: | On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:48:24AM -0300, Daniel Capo Sobral wrote: | When I first wrote the loader.conf thingy, I couldn't get the value | of environment variables from the FICL environment. | ... | Anyway, I have been too busy lately to do anything with FreeBSD that | is not directly related to things I have to do at work, and it doesn't | look like slacking up so soon. So, unfortunately, I don't have time to | do any of the little things that have been cropping up with loader. | | A very good reason the loader should have used something other then a | language only 1% of the FreeBSD committers (and entire community) has | knowledge of. This is why major companies use Windows instead of FreeBSD. FreeBSD is only known by less than 1% of the CS community, let alone the entire workers population. Or why is BSD make used when the vast majority of Free Software developpers use GNU make? Yes, this is a troll. No, it doesn't need a followup. I just don't buy the 1% argument, it reminds me too much of what people say about the systems I use. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
David O'Brien wrote: On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:48:24AM -0300, Daniel Capo Sobral wrote: When I first wrote the loader.conf thingy, I couldn't get the value of environment variables from the FICL environment. ... Anyway, I have been too busy lately to do anything with FreeBSD that is not directly related to things I have to do at work, and it doesn't look like slacking up so soon. So, unfortunately, I don't have time to do any of the little things that have been cropping up with loader. A very good reason the loader should have used something other then a language only 1% of the FreeBSD committers (and entire community) has knowledge of. /me shrugs I myself questioned the wisdom of using Forth at the time, and Jordan simply replied I was free to find a more popular language with a freely available interpreter that would fit in as small a space as FICL did. -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] True leadership is the art of changing a group from what it is to what it ought to be. -- Virginia Allan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Samuel Tardieu wrote: Or why is BSD make used when the vast majority of Free Software developpers use GNU make? 1) It actually works 2) It can operate with a Bourne shell, and does not depend on bash-isms 3) The files created to use it are more portable to other operating systems 4) It results in very terse (small) files, so even a full rewrite for a new OS's strange new/old make doesn't cost much more 5) It does dependencies right, so I can change 1 file out of a quarter of a million, and it does the right thing, instead of rebuilding everything 6) It does not have an onerous license 7) It is strongly maintained 8) It is easily ported to other operating systems, once you get over the stupid err()/errx() crap. 9) It is known to run on about 60 different UNIX variants 10) Inertia Yes, this is a troll. No, it doesn't need a followup. I just don't buy the 1% argument, it reminds me too much of what people say about the systems I use. In order: Yet it was. Yes it does. Grow a thick skin. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:04:49PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: Samuel Tardieu wrote: Or why is BSD make used when the vast majority of Free Software developpers use GNU make? 1)It actually works You forgot the syntax is nearly the same as GNU Make. (or rather both accept nearly the same syntax as the original Bell Labs make(1)). In the case of forth, the interpreter will accept nothing that looks even vaguely simular to C/C++, FORTRAN, bourne shell, awk, or perl. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: David O'Brien wrote: On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:48:24AM -0300, Daniel Capo Sobral wrote: When I first wrote the loader.conf thingy, I couldn't get the value of environment variables from the FICL environment. ... Anyway, I have been too busy lately to do anything with FreeBSD that is not directly related to things I have to do at work, and it doesn't look like slacking up so soon. So, unfortunately, I don't have time to do any of the little things that have been cropping up with loader. A very good reason the loader should have used something other then a language only 1% of the FreeBSD committers (and entire community) has knowledge of. /me shrugs I myself questioned the wisdom of using Forth at the time, and Jordan simply replied I was free to find a more popular language with a freely available interpreter that would fit in as small a space as FICL did. there is a Basic interpeter that fits in 1024 bytes that could be used if extended to know about files :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] True leadership is the art of changing a group from what it is to what it ought to be. -- Virginia Allan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Julian Elischer wrote: I myself questioned the wisdom of using Forth at the time, and Jordan simply replied I was free to find a more popular language with a freely available interpreter that would fit in as small a space as FICL did. there is a Basic interpeter that fits in 1024 bytes that could be used if extended to know about files :-) That was probably funnier inside your head... it may even have stayed funny, had you left it there. Now some damn fool will go and implement it. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
From: Daniel C. Sobral [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 15:55:16 -0300 I myself questioned the wisdom of using Forth at the time, and Jordan simply replied I was free to find a more popular language with a freely available interpreter that would fit in as small a space as FICL did. I also have to question the assertion that the community of people who understand or have even a passing familiarity with this sort of thing [a forth-based loader] is miniscule. OpenBoot, for example, is entirely forth-based (c.f. Mitch Bradley). Every machine Sun has ever shipped in any serious quantity has OpenBoot as its loader. Every machine Apple has shipped within recent memory also has OpenBoot as its loader. Between those two companies, they have shipped millions of OpenBoot-using machines and have a combined userbase which probably exceeds FreeBSD's by quite a few million. FreeBSD is simply following an well-established trend for boot loaders here rather than going its own way, and if we were to use Ruby as our boot loader then I'm sure a lot of Japanese people would be very happy but it would also make us utterly unique, a decision of even more questionable wisdom. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jordan Hubbard writes: FreeBSD is simply following an well-established trend for boot loaders here rather than going its own way, and if we were to use Ruby as our boot loader then I'm sure a lot of Japanese people would be very happy but it would also make us utterly unique, a decision of even more questionable wisdom. And just for the record: PERL is right out (of space) for this purpose... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 01:26:22PM -0700, Jordan Hubbard wrote: I myself questioned the wisdom of using Forth at the time, and Jordan simply replied I was free to find a more popular language with a freely available interpreter that would fit in as small a space as FICL did. I also have to question the assertion that the community of people who understand or have even a passing familiarity with this sort of thing [a forth-based loader] is miniscule. OpenBoot, for example, is entirely forth-based (c.f. Mitch Bradley). Every machine Sun has ever shipped in any serious quantity has OpenBoot as its loader. Every And I don't know a *single* Sun admin (current or ex) that has ever done any OpenBoot/forth scripts. Not a *single* one. Nor does Solaris or even your own company (Apple) try to do as much in OpenBoot as we do in our loader. We often desire /boot/*.4th tweaks, but only 1-2 people have enough passing knowledge of Forth to do it. FreeBSD is simply following an well-established trend for boot loaders here rather than going its own way, Not really. You are speaking of machine firmware. OpenBoot loads the bootblock and provides some BIOS-like services. Our bootblocks load our FICL loader. Thus you really cannot compare the two the way you do. and if we were to use Ruby as our boot loader then I'm sure a lot of Japanese people would be very happy but it would also make us utterly unique, a decision of even more questionable wisdom. A lot more people can tweak an existing Ruby script, than an existing forth one. -- -- David ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
David O'Brien wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:04:49PM -0700, Terry Lambert wrote: Samuel Tardieu wrote: Or why is BSD make used when the vast majority of Free Software developpers use GNU make? 1)It actually works You forgot the syntax is nearly the same as GNU Make. (or rather both accept nearly the same syntax as the original Bell Labs make(1)). In the case of forth, the interpreter will accept nothing that looks even vaguely simular to C/C++, FORTRAN, bourne shell, awk, or perl. FORTH is a pain in the ass, it's a bastardized and seldom-used language, but it does have one strong advantage in a boot-loader situation: it's tiny, and relatively easy to implement. It's been a very long time since FORTRAN fit in 4k, I don't think C ever did, bourne relies too much on external programs [/bin/test, etc], awk is too limited, and using perl would be akin to using winblowz as a bootloader [bLOAt] I haven't used FORTH since my VIC-20 days, but if you can use an HP calculator, you can probably pick up the basics of FORTH over a weekend. If you can do PostScript, then you can probably pick it up in an evening. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Julian Elischer wrote: On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: David O'Brien wrote: On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 09:48:24AM -0300, Daniel Capo Sobral wrote: When I first wrote the loader.conf thingy, I couldn't get the value of environment variables from the FICL environment. ... Anyway, I have been too busy lately to do anything with FreeBSD that is not directly related to things I have to do at work, and it doesn't look like slacking up so soon. So, unfortunately, I don't have time to do any of the little things that have been cropping up with loader. A very good reason the loader should have used something other then a language only 1% of the FreeBSD committers (and entire community) has knowledge of. /me shrugs I myself questioned the wisdom of using Forth at the time, and Jordan simply replied I was free to find a more popular language with a freely available interpreter that would fit in as small a space as FICL did. there is a Basic interpeter that fits in 1024 bytes that could be used if extended to know about files :-) BASIC is evil incarnate! :^) jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 08:15:59PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote: In the case of forth, the interpreter will accept nothing that looks even vaguely simular to C/C++, FORTRAN, bourne shell, awk, or perl. ... It's been a very long time since FORTRAN fit in 4k, I don't think C ever did, bourne relies too much on external programs [/bin/test, etc], awk is too limited, and using perl would be akin to using winblowz as a bootloader [bLOAt] NO KIDDING! I was comparing syntax. Where did I ever suggest to use those particular langauges? -- -- David ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Dave Cornejo wrote: you wrote: And just for the record: PERL is right out (of space) for this purpose... as I assume emacs would be too? :-( Hey now! Them's fightin' words! :^) Emacs makes the sun shine, Emacs makes the birds sing, Emacs makes the grass grow green! chsh -s /usr/local/bin/emacs root So what if FreeBSD can run on a 4 meg machine once it's booted, if it can't use eight megs while booting, and do your laundry for you at the same time! Emacs r0x! jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Jim Bryant wrote: Dave Cornejo wrote: you wrote: And just for the record: PERL is right out (of space) for this purpose... as I assume emacs would be too? :-( Hey now! Them's fightin' words! :^) Emacs makes the sun shine, Emacs makes the birds sing, Emacs makes the grass grow green! chsh -s /usr/local/bin/emacs root So what if FreeBSD can run on a 4 meg machine once it's booted, if it can't use eight megs while booting, and do your laundry for you at the same time! Emacs r0x! OF course, emacs would be a little large and bloated, no matter how much I like it, or you like it, but, you do bring up a viable alternative to FORTH [which is unlikely to be scrapped in the bootloader], and so far, it may be the only viable alternative discussed so far, and that is LISP. LISP can be implemented in a tiny form, it is the OLDEST high-level language in computing, it has a LARGE base of programmers, and it is easy to learn. Full Common-LISP wouldn't be necessary for a bootloader, only a reasonable subset. EMACS may be large, some will say bloated, but it is a tribute to the sheer flexibility of the LISP language. I doubt if the bootloader will ever change from FORTH, but if it does, I suggest LISP as the preferred choice on a short-list of potential replacements. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 08:42:39PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote: I doubt if the bootloader will ever change from FORTH, but if it does, I suggest LISP as the preferred choice on a short-list of potential replacements. Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. Kris PGP signature
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Kris Kennaway wrote: On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 08:42:39PM -0500, Jim Bryant wrote: I doubt if the bootloader will ever change from FORTH, but if it does, I suggest LISP as the preferred choice on a short-list of potential replacements. Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. Kris Been a while since I looked around, and I do think that any suitable interpreter would have to be modified to suit the task of bootloading much better than a generic LISP can, even emacs had to modify LISP for their purposes, but sure, I'll do some looking around for candidates. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I doubt if the bootloader will ever change from FORTH, but if it does, I suggest LISP as the preferred choice on a short-list of potential replacements. Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. I don't know what size constraints the bootloader has to have but the smallest two lisp interpreters I have found are: $ cd /usr/ports/lang/slisp/work/slisp-1.2/src $ size slisp textdata bss dec hex filename 17872 6163584 220725638 slisp $ wc *.h *.c 67 3212266 extern.h 69 3352053 slisp.h 9272438 15990 funcs.c 189 7304707 lexer.c 147 4583232 main.c 287 8326358 object.c 136 4703370 parser.c 18225584 37976 total slisp has most of the common lisp constructs. $ cd ~/lang/Scheme/tinyscm-1.27 $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme $ wc *.h *.c 12 33 247 dynload.h 34411369221 scheme.h 126 2922589 dynload.c 4445 12353 125421 scheme.c 4927 13814 137478 total Tinyscheme is a mostly complete R5RS Scheme (R5RS is the closest thing to a Scheme standard) -- everything except complex and rational number types, bignums, hygenic macros and call-with-values and unwind-protect. You can probably subset it quite a bit to make it far smaller (e.g. the real number type and advanced math functions to avoid linking in libm). If it matters to you, it has a BSD style licence. http://tinyscheme.sourceforge.net/home.html http://tinyscheme.sourceforge.net/tinyscheme-1.27.tar.gz To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. $ cd ~/lang/Scheme/tinyscm-1.27 $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme Is that statically-linked? I'm curious to know the size of the bootloader forth footprint. The loader is about 150k, so I'm sure you could probably fit a nice Scheme interpreter in under that size... ?? Tinyscheme is a mostly complete R5RS Scheme (R5RS is the You can also conditionally-compile the components to make a smaller footprint. I'm highly in favor of Scheme replacing 4th... It's a very easy language to learn (only 11 special forms) yet still powerful (you can't pass code as data in BASIC ;). If you replace the boot loader interpreter, pick Scheme over LISP. There are lots of implementations: siod, scm, mit-scheme, MzScheme, and tinyscheme are among the better ones. --Rick C. Petty, aka Snoopy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Bakul Shah wrote: I doubt if the bootloader will ever change from FORTH, but if it does, I suggest LISP as the preferred choice on a short-list of potential replacements. Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. I don't know what size constraints the bootloader has to have but the smallest two lisp interpreters I have found are: $ cd /usr/ports/lang/slisp/work/slisp-1.2/src $ size slisp textdata bss dec hex filename 17872 6163584 220725638 slisp $ wc *.h *.c 67 3212266 extern.h 69 3352053 slisp.h 9272438 15990 funcs.c 189 7304707 lexer.c 147 4583232 main.c 287 8326358 object.c 136 4703370 parser.c 18225584 37976 total slisp has most of the common lisp constructs. That would be a perfect candidate. Low source file count, compact in core [depending on dynamic requirements]. Easily modifiable for the task, and looks to have a usable base subset of the language. $ cd ~/lang/Scheme/tinyscm-1.27 $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme $ wc *.h *.c 12 33 247 dynload.h 34411369221 scheme.h 126 2922589 dynload.c 4445 12353 125421 scheme.c 4927 13814 137478 total Tinyscheme is a mostly complete R5RS Scheme (R5RS is the closest thing to a Scheme standard) -- everything except complex and rational number types, bignums, hygenic macros and call-with-values and unwind-protect. You can probably subset it quite a bit to make it far smaller (e.g. the real number type and advanced math functions to avoid linking in libm). If it matters to you, it has a BSD style licence. http://tinyscheme.sourceforge.net/home.html http://tinyscheme.sourceforge.net/tinyscheme-1.27.tar.gz The problems of Scheme are much like the problems of FORTH. It's a niche language that has few proficient programmers. LISP may not be mainstream, but it's far more so than Scheme [or FORTH for that matter], and is commonly taught in CompSci classes, meaning that most serious programmers have at least been familiarized with the language, in fact, your local drating tech may be quite proficient in it [AutoCAD uses LISP]... I personally don't care if FORTH stays, but if it's up for debate, LISP is a great choice. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
FreeBSD Fanatic wrote: Show us a suitable LISP interpreter, then. $ cd ~/lang/Scheme/tinyscm-1.27 $ size scheme textdata bss dec hex filename 6134244763480 69298 10eb2 scheme Is that statically-linked? I'm curious to know the size of the bootloader forth footprint. The loader is about 150k, so I'm sure you could probably fit a nice Scheme interpreter in under that size... ?? Tinyscheme is a mostly complete R5RS Scheme (R5RS is the You can also conditionally-compile the components to make a smaller footprint. I'm highly in favor of Scheme replacing 4th... It's a very easy language to learn (only 11 special forms) yet still powerful (you can't pass code as data in BASIC ;). If you replace the boot loader interpreter, pick Scheme over LISP. There are lots of implementations: siod, scm, mit-scheme, MzScheme, and tinyscheme are among the better ones. --Rick C. Petty, aka Snoopy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I still think that Scheme has far less proficient programmers than LISP. BTW: In LISP, *EVERYTHING* is data. LISP was executing data as code and writing self-replicating programs around 1951 or 1952. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Jim Bryant wrote: I still think that Scheme has far less proficient programmers than LISP. What? You think there are far less proficient accountants than there are mathematicians? But more people get Accounting degrees daily than Mathematics degrees, and besides that it's an easier subset of Math. If you didn't realize it, Scheme is nothing more than a subset of the common LISP. It was created especially for situations like this where you want LISP's power and flexibility but not that kitchen sink that comes with most common LISP. BTW: In LISP, *EVERYTHING* is data. LISP was executing data as code and writing self-replicating programs around 1951 or 1952. The cognitive leap that leads every LISPer to his understanding of AI programming is a very exciting thing. I wish I had a picture of my face the day I figured it out. -- Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time. -- /usr/games/fortune, 07/30/2001 Brandon D. Valentine bandix at looksharp.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I myself questioned the wisdom of using Forth at the time, and Jordan simply replied I was free to find a more popular language with a freely available interpreter that would fit in as small a space as FICL did. Just for the record; I spent a lot of time interviewing small script interpreters for the job. I was unable to find anything even remotely close (and they were all other Forths anyway). Forth wasn't a really popular choice, but it was that or nothing at all. 8( To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
you wrote: And just for the record: PERL is right out (of space) for this purpose... as I assume emacs would be too? :-( -- Dave Cornejo @ Dogwood Media, Fremont, California (also [EMAIL PROTECTED]) There aren't any monkeys chasing us... - Xochi To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Unheedful of thy elder's warnings, Mike Smith wrote: Then, shouldn't we remove the PnP BIOS driver (pnpbios) from the kernel and make it a module, so that the boot loader will load either the ACPI module or the PnP BIOS module? Yes, we probably should. I'd like to see the boot-conf code learn how to deal with foo_load variables set in the environment in the same fashion it deals with them as it reads /boot/loader.conf; this would result in the acpi and pnpbios modules being loaded at the correct time, rather than after the 'boot' command where they come as a surprise to the user. When I first wrote the loader.conf thingy, I couldn't get the value of environment variables from the FICL environment. Now I do, and it has been my intent rewriting the whole code to make it more easier for people to add to it and take advantage of the better integration between FICL and underlying loader, but it has suffered from a perfectionist streak I have sometimes: I'm over-designing it. Anyway, I have been too busy lately to do anything with FreeBSD that is not directly related to things I have to do at work, and it doesn't look like slacking up so soon. So, unfortunately, I don't have time to do any of the little things that have been cropping up with loader. Looking the code over, it seems to me the quickest way of implementing this would be create a word that goes over all the environment variables and create/change the appropriate module structures as it finds corresponding variables, and then add this variable to the beginning of boot and boot-conf definitions on loader.4th. I wish I could be of more help at the moment, but I can't. :-( -- Daniel C. Sobral (8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ever notice that even the busiest people are never too busy to tell you just how busy they are? To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
The loader now detects ACPI in your system, and loads the ACPI module if it is present. This has major ramifications for the device probe and attach phases of system initialisation. - Root PCI bridges are detected using ACPI. - PCI interrupt routing is now performed using ACPI. - The PnP BIOS is disabled and onboard peripherals are detected using ACPI, and attach to ACPI and not isa. - System-owned resources are detected and reserved by ACPI. Then, shouldn't we remove the PnP BIOS driver (pnpbios) from the kernel and make it a module, so that the boot loader will load either the ACPI module or the PnP BIOS module? Kazu To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Then, shouldn't we remove the PnP BIOS driver (pnpbios) from the kernel and make it a module, so that the boot loader will load either the ACPI module or the PnP BIOS module? Yes, we probably should. I'd like to see the boot-conf code learn how to deal with foo_load variables set in the environment in the same fashion it deals with them as it reads /boot/loader.conf; this would result in the acpi and pnpbios modules being loaded at the correct time, rather than after the 'boot' command where they come as a surprise to the user. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Smith writes: : I'd like to see the boot-conf code learn how to deal with foo_load : variables set in the environment in the same fashion it deals with : them as it reads /boot/loader.conf; this would result in the acpi and : pnpbios modules being loaded at the correct time, rather than after : the 'boot' command where they come as a surprise to the user. And makes it hard to override if you don't understand things too well Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 07:58:59PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: - The PnP BIOS is disabled and onboard peripherals are detected using ACPI, and attach to ACPI and not isa. With the ACPI module loaded I find that ed0, fdc0 and pca0 are no longer detected (well, fdc0 is detected but gives an error). I have the most recent BIOS installed and it doesn't seem to make any difference if I twiddle BIOS settings. Could this have something to do with hints, or where should I be looking for the problem? David. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
In servalan.mailinglist.fbsd-current David Malone writes: On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 07:58:59PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote: - The PnP BIOS is disabled and onboard peripherals are detected using ACPI, and attach to ACPI and not isa. With the ACPI module loaded I find that ed0, fdc0 and pca0 are no longer detected (well, fdc0 is detected but gives an error). I have the most recent BIOS installed and it doesn't seem to make any difference if I twiddle BIOS settings. Could this have something to do with hints, or where should I be looking for the problem? I'm seeing similar behavior, with fdc0 not functioning properly and giving the following stuff in dmesg. Note the 'fdc0: cmd 3 failed at out byte 1 of 3' messages; the kernel never seems to properly detect floppy drive 0. This is on a Tyan Thunder 100GX motherboard. It's not got the most current rev. of the BIOS, but I'm somewhat reluctant to try flashing a newer BIOS unless I'm sure the lossage is in the BIOS and not in the FreeBSD kernel. (Alas, trying the newer BIOS may be the only way to find out for sure.) Copyright (c) 1992-2001 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #1: Sat Sep 1 21:43:41 CDT 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/sys/i386/compile/ICHOTOLOTSMP Timecounter i8254 frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Pentium II/Pentium II Xeon/Celeron (400.91-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x653 Stepping = 3 Features=0x183fbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,MMX,FXSR real memory = 134152192 (131008K bytes) avail memory = 124178432 (121268K bytes) Programming 24 pins in IOAPIC #0 IOAPIC #0 intpin 2 - irq 0 FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs cpu0 (BSP): apic id: 0, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee0 cpu1 (AP): apic id: 1, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee0 io0 (APIC): apic id: 2, version: 0x00170011, at 0xfec0 Preloaded elf kernel kernel at 0xc0633000. Preloaded elf module acpi.ko at 0xc063309c. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled WARNING: Driver mistake: destroy_dev on 154/0 npx0: math processor on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface acpi0: TYANCP TYANTBLE on motherboard acpi0: power button is handled as a fixed feature programming model. Timecounter ACPI frequency 3579545 Hz acpi_timer0: 24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz port 0x408-0x40b on acpi0 acpi_cpu0: CPU on acpi0 acpi_cpu1: CPU on acpi0 acpi_tz0: thermal zone on acpi0 acpi_pcib0: Host-PCI bridge port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 IOAPIC #0 intpin 19 - irq 2 IOAPIC #0 intpin 16 - irq 10 pci0: PCI bus on acpi_pcib0 pcib1: PCI-PCI bridge at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: PCI bus on pcib1 pci1: display, VGA at 0.0 (no driver attached) isab0: PCI-ISA bridge at device 7.0 on pci0 isa0: ISA bus on isab0 atapci0: Intel PIIX4 ATA33 controller port 0xffa0-0xffaf at device 7.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 uhci0: Intel 82371AB/EB (PIIX4) USB controller port 0xef80-0xef9f irq 2 at device 7.2 on pci0 usb0: Intel 82371AB/EB (PIIX4) USB controller on uhci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: Intel UHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered ums0: Cypress Sem PS2/USB Browser Combo Mouse, rev 1.00/4.9c, addr 2, iclass 3/1 ums0: 5 buttons and Z dir. Timecounter PIIX frequency 3579545 Hz pci0: bridge, PCI-unknown at 7.3 (no driver attached) pcib2: PCI-PCI bridge at device 16.0 on pci0 pci2: PCI bus on pcib2 fxp0: Intel Pro 10/100B/100+ Ethernet port 0xef40-0xef5f mem 0xfea0-0xfeaf,0xfc4ff000-0xfc4f irq 2 at device 17.0 on pci0 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:e0:81:10:47:b2 inphy0: i82555 10/100 media interface on miibus0 inphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto ahc0: Adaptec aic7895 Ultra SCSI adapter port 0xe400-0xe4ff mem 0xfebfe000-0xfebfefff irq 10 at device 18.0 on pci0 aic7895C: Ultra Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 32/255 SCBs ahc1: Adaptec aic7895 Ultra SCSI adapter port 0xe800-0xe8ff mem 0xfebff000-0xfebf irq 10 at device 18.1 on pci0 aic7895C: Ultra Wide Channel B, SCSI Id=7, 32/255 SCBs fdc0: cmd 3 failed at out byte 1 of 3 sio0 port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on acpi0 sio0: type 16550A sio1 port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on acpi0 sio1: type 16550A ppc0 port 0x378-0x37f irq 7 on acpi0 ppc0: Generic chipset (EPP/NIBBLE) in COMPATIBLE mode plip0: PLIP network interface on ppbus0 lpt0: Printer on ppbus0 lpt0: Interrupt-driven port ppi0: Parallel I/O on ppbus0 ppc1: cannot reserve I/O port range fdc0: cmd 3 failed at out byte 1 of 3 ppc1: cannot reserve I/O port range orm0: Option ROMs at iomem 0xc-0xc87ff,0xcc000-0xd07ff on isa0 atkbdc0: Keyboard controller (i8042) at port 0x60,0x64 on isa0 atkbd0: AT Keyboard flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 ppc1: cannot reserve I/O port range sc0: System console at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA 16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300 vga0: Generic ISA VGA
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I have a question, does /dev/mem wrap lgoically back to address once it's reached the end of physical memory? Er, no, I wouldn't have thought so. 110779f460 7c 7c 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 20 2e 54 62 56 7c 2e |||RSD PTR .TbV |.| Should this be far enough along for you to get what you need? If so, I'll ju st kill it, gzip the outfile, and send it to you. Definiely, thanks. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I sent it in a private message to you to keep from spamming the list with a 60k file... I was wondering why the address was so high, and it was still catching matches of anything... Mike Smith wrote: I have a question, does /dev/mem wrap lgoically back to address once it's reached the end of physical memory? Er, no, I wouldn't have thought so. 110779f460 7c 7c 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 20 2e 54 62 56 7c 2e |||RSD PTR .TbV |.| Should this be far enough along for you to get what you need? If so, I'll ju st kill it, gzip the outfile, and send it to you. Definiely, thanks. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I would have waited for the re-run of hexdump to finish, but checking right a
fter I sent the last message produced:
00369400 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 20 00 54 62 56 61 6c 69 64 |RSD PTR .TbValid
You did say that what you are looking for would be left-aligned, could it be
the bit at 00369400?
No, unfortunately. The structure looks like this:
typedef struct /* Root System Descriptor Pointer */
{
NATIVE_CHAR Signature [8]; /* contains RSD PTR */
UINT8Checksum; /* to make sum of struct == 0 */
NATIVE_CHAR OemId [6]; /* OEM identification */
UINT8Revision; /* Must be 0 for 1.0, 2 for 2.0 */
...
So the row has to end with 00 or 02. That address looks like data inside
the KLD.
--
... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his
rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want
to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force
people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt]
V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E
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panic in EcWaitEventIntr?(Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS)
Hi. My MPC-206 made panic with -current GENERIC kernel. It can boot normaly with 'unset acpi_load'. 'dmesg' results as follows: = Copyright (c) 1992-2001 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Sep 2 09:14:57 JST 2001 root@fiva:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC Timecounter i8254 frequency 1193182 Hz Timecounter TSC frequency 597305278 Hz CPU: Transmeta(tm) Crusoe(tm) Processor TM5600 (597.31-MHz 586-class CPU) Origin = GenuineTMx86 Id = 0x543 real memory = 117374976 (114624K bytes) avail memory = 108556288 (106012K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel kernel at 0xc0578000. Preloaded elf module acpi.ko at 0xc057809c. WARNING: Driver mistake: destroy_dev on 154/0 Using $PIR table, 10 entries at 0xc00fdf20 npx0: math processor on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface acpi0: PTLTDRSDT on motherboard acpi0: power button is handled as a fixed feature programming model. Timecounter ACPI frequency 3579545 Hz acpi_timer0: 24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz port 0x8008-0x800b on acpi0 acpi_cpu0: CPU on acpi0 acpi_tz0: thermal zone on acpi0 acpi_button0: Power Button on acpi0 acpi_pcib0: Host-PCI bridge port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: PCI bus on acpi_pcib0 pci0: memory, RAM at 0.1 (no driver attached) pci0: memory, RAM at 0.2 (no driver attached) pci0: multimedia, audio at 4.0 (no driver attached) isab0: PCI-ISA bridge at device 7.0 on pci0 isa0: ISA bus on isab0 pci0: display, VGA at 9.0 (no driver attached) pcic0: TI PCI-1420 PCI-CardBus Bridge mem 0x1000-0x1fff irq 5 at device 10.0 on pci0 pcic0: TI12XX PCI Config Reg: [ring enable][speaker enable][pwr save][FUNC pci int + CSC serial isa irq] pccard0: PC Card bus (classic) on pcic0 pcic1: TI PCI-1420 PCI-CardBus Bridge mem 0x10001000-0x10001fff irq 4 at device 10.1 on pci0 pcic1: TI12XX PCI Config Reg: [ring enable][speaker enable][pwr save][FUNC pci int + CSC serial isa irq] pccard1: PC Card bus (classic) on pcic1 pci0: serial bus, FireWire at 11.0 (no driver attached) rl0: RealTek 8139 10/100BaseTX port 0x1400-0x14ff mem 0xfc006800-0xfc0068ff irq 11 at device 12.0 on pci0 rl0: Realtek 8139B detected. Warning, this may be unstable in autoselect mode rl0: Ethernet address: 08:00:74:50:32:4c miibus0: MII bus on rl0 rlphy0: RealTek internal media interface on miibus0 rlphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto atapci0: AcerLabs Aladdin ATA33 controller port 0x1800-0x180f,0-0x3,0-0x7,0x3f4-0x3f7,0x1f0-0x1ff at device 15.0 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 pci0: bridge, PCI-unknown at 17.0 (no driver attached) ohci0: AcerLabs M5237 (Aladdin-V) USB controller mem 0xd-0xd0fff irq 11 at device 20.0 on pci0 usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: SMM does not respond, resetting usb0: AcerLabs M5237 (Aladdin-V) USB controller on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: AcerLabs OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 2 ports with 2 removable, self powered acpi_button1: Sleep Button on acpi0 acpi_acad0: AC adapter on acpi0 acpi_cmbat0: Control method Battery on acpi0 acpi_lid0: Control Method Lid Switch on acpi0 atkbdc0: Keyboard controller (i8042) port 0x64,0x60 irq 1 on acpi0 atkbd0: AT Keyboard flags 0x1 irq 1 on atkbdc0 kbd0 at atkbd0 psm0: PS/2 Mouse irq 12 on atkbdc0 psm0: model Generic PS/2 mouse, device ID 0 acpi_ec0: embedded controller port 0x66,0x62 on acpi0 orm0: Option ROMs at iomem 0xc-0xcbfff,0xd8000-0xdbfff on isa0 fdc0: direction bit not set fdc0: cmd 3 failed at out byte 1 of 3 pmtimer0 on isa0 ppc0: parallel port not found. sc0: System console at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA 16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300 sio0: configured irq 4 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 sio0 at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 sio0: type 8250 sio1: configured irq 3 not in bitmap of probed irqs 0 vga0: Generic ISA VGA at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa-0xb on isa0 acpi_cpu0: set speed to 100.0% acpi_cpu: CPU throttling enabled, 8 steps from 100% to 12.5% ad0: 19077MB IBM-DJSA-220 [38760/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA66 Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad0s2a acpi_ec0: EcRead: Failed waiting for EC to send data. acpi_ec0: EcRead: Failed waiting for EC to send data. acpi_ec0: EcRead: Failed waiting for EC to send data. acpi_ec0: evaluation of GPE query method _Q09 failed - AE_AML_NO_OPERAND acpi_ec0: EcWaitEventIntr called without EC lock! acpi_ec0: EcWaitEventIntr called without EC lock! acpi_ec0: EcWaitEventIntr called without EC lock! acpi_ec0: EcRead: Failed waiting for EC to send data. acpi_cmbat0: Battery info corrupted acpi_ec0: EcRead: Failed waiting for EC to send data. acpi_cmbat0: CANNOT FOUND _BST (12292) acpi_ec0: EcWrite: Failed waiting for EC to process write command. acpi_tz0: error fetching current temperature acpi_ec0: EcRead: Failed waiting for EC to process read command. acpi_tz0: error fetching current
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I have a question, does /dev/mem wrap lgoically back to address once it's reached the end of physical memory? I left the hexdump -C running all night and just checked and it's still running, and the output file shoes that it's somewhere past address: 110779f460 7c 7c 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 20 2e 54 62 56 7c 2e |||RSD PTR .TbV|.| Should this be far enough along for you to get what you need? If so, I'll just kill it, gzip the outfile, and send it to you. Mike Smith wrote: My motherboard is a Tyan S1696-DLUA dual P2-333. I am using the latest known bios updates. ACPI is enabled, and APM disabled in the BIOS. This happens regardless if PnP is on or off in the BIOS. [dmesg | grep -i acpi] ACPI debug layer 0x0 debug level 0x0 tbxface-0170: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not get RSDP, AE_NO_ACPI_TAB LES tbxface-0222: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not load tables: AE_NO_ACPI_ TABLES ACPI: table load failed: AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES Your ACPI tables, assuming they exist, are somewhere we're not looking for them yet. 8( Can you try: # hexdump /dev/mem | grep RSD PTR and if it finds anything (the string should be left-aligned on the line) send me the line it outputs... (this will take a while). Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Bruce Evans wrote:
I've found acpica as useful as any other disk filling service and hope
it stays that way.
Bruce
Can someone put this in fortunes.dat :)
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Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
My motherboard is a Tyan S1696-DLUA dual P2-333. I am using the latest known bios updates. ACPI is enabled, and APM disabled in the BIOS. This happens regardless if PnP is on or off in the BIOS. [dmesg | grep -i acpi] ACPI debug layer 0x0 debug level 0x0 tbxface-0170: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not get RSDP, AE_NO_ACPI_TAB LES tbxface-0222: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not load tables: AE_NO_ACPI_ TABLES ACPI: table load failed: AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES Your ACPI tables, assuming they exist, are somewhere we're not looking for them yet. 8( Can you try: # hexdump /dev/mem | grep RSD PTR and if it finds anything (the string should be left-aligned on the line) send me the line it outputs... (this will take a while). Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
In progress... You aren't joking about it taking a while... Been half an hour now... Mike Smith wrote: My motherboard is a Tyan S1696-DLUA dual P2-333. I am using the latest known bios updates. ACPI is enabled, and APM disabled in the BIOS. This happens regardless if PnP is on or off in the BIOS. [dmesg | grep -i acpi] ACPI debug layer 0x0 debug level 0x0 tbxface-0170: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not get RSDP, AE_NO_ACPI_TAB LES tbxface-0222: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not load tables: AE_NO_ACPI_ TABLES ACPI: table load failed: AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES Your ACPI tables, assuming they exist, are somewhere we're not looking for them yet. 8( Can you try: # hexdump /dev/mem | grep RSD PTR and if it finds anything (the string should be left-aligned on the line) send me the line it outputs... (this will take a while). Thanks. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Duh!!! No wonder it was taking so long... Seems we both forgot that would have never come up with anything... doing a: hexdump -C /dev/mem | grep RSD PTR now... Mike Smith wrote: My motherboard is a Tyan S1696-DLUA dual P2-333. I am using the latest known bios updates. ACPI is enabled, and APM disabled in the BIOS. This happens regardless if PnP is on or off in the BIOS. [dmesg | grep -i acpi] ACPI debug layer 0x0 debug level 0x0 tbxface-0170: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not get RSDP, AE_NO_ACPI_TAB LES tbxface-0222: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not load tables: AE_NO_ACPI_ TABLES ACPI: table load failed: AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES Your ACPI tables, assuming they exist, are somewhere we're not looking for them yet. 8( Can you try: # hexdump /dev/mem | grep RSD PTR and if it finds anything (the string should be left-aligned on the line) send me the line it outputs... (this will take a while). Thanks. jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I would have waited for the re-run of hexdump to finish, but checking right after I sent the last message produced: DING! wahoo(102): hexdump -C /dev/mem | grep RSD PTR 000716d0 67 72 65 70 20 22 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 22 27 00 |grep RSD PTR'.| 000719d0 67 72 65 70 20 22 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 22 27 00 |grep RSD PTR'.| 00369400 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 20 00 54 62 56 61 6c 69 64 |RSD PTR .TbValid| 0036ad00 44 53 44 54 00 52 53 44 20 50 54 52 20 00 52 53 |DSDT.RSD PTR .RS| You did say that what you are looking for would be left-aligned, could it be the bit at 00369400? Mike Smith wrote: My motherboard is a Tyan S1696-DLUA dual P2-333. I am using the latest known bios updates. ACPI is enabled, and APM disabled in the BIOS. This happens regardless if PnP is on or off in the BIOS. [dmesg | grep -i acpi] ACPI debug layer 0x0 debug level 0x0 tbxface-0170: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not get RSDP, AE_NO_ACPI_TAB LES tbxface-0222: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not load tables: AE_NO_ACPI_ TABLES ACPI: table load failed: AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES Your ACPI tables, assuming they exist, are somewhere we're not looking for them yet. 8( Can you try: # hexdump /dev/mem | grep RSD PTR and if it finds anything (the string should be left-aligned on the line) send me the line it outputs... (this will take a while). Thanks. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message jim -- ET has one helluva sense of humor! He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos! POWER TO THE PEOPLE! _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
I'm going to double-check my config against GENERIC, but I've been seeing this since
before the new changes.
Because of that one problem with the missing file the other day, I simply blasted and
re-synched my /usr/src/sys, so I am definitely
running the latest sources.
My motherboard is a Tyan S1696-DLUA dual P2-333. I am using the latest known bios
updates. ACPI is enabled, and APM disabled in
the BIOS. This happens regardless if PnP is on or off in the BIOS.
[dmesg | grep -i acpi]
ACPI debug layer 0x0 debug level 0x0
tbxface-0170: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not get RSDP, AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES
tbxface-0222: *** Error: AcpiLoadTables: Could not load tables: AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES
ACPI: table load failed: AE_NO_ACPI_TABLES
Andy Farkas wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, Bruce Evans wrote:
I've found acpica as useful as any other disk filling service and hope
it stays that way.
Bruce
Can someone put this in fortunes.dat :)
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Speednet Communications
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jim
--
ET has one helluva sense of humor!
He's always anal-probing right-wing schizos!
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
_
Do You Yahoo!?
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Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
| Most systems with soft power will perform a hard powerdown if you hold | down the power button for a sufficiently long period of time (10 - 20 | seconds). Correct ... and unfortunately it's done in hardware so you can trap it :-( In some applications you want to make it really hard for someone to be able to turn it off when a power off is not equivalent to pull the plug and the pull the plug is safer for the system due to power supply design. ... so rewire the power switch to the sleep button input, and set the sleep button action to S5. Then hitting the power button will shut down, but holding it down forever won't force power off... -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
- I pushed the power button, and my system shut down cleanly! Yes. ACPI brings some useful new features. 8) FSVO ``useful''. It's a real PITA to have to physically unplug the machine when the kernel is wedged rather than have the power button turn off the power. (The machine in question does not have a reset switch.) As a sometime developer, I may well have a reason to power the system off without performing any kind of shutdown. Most systems with soft power will perform a hard powerdown if you hold down the power button for a sufficiently long period of time (10 - 20 seconds). Actually, it's typically somewhere between four and five. The spec mandates not less than four. Personally, as a sometime developer, I'd get a reset switch. Power cycling your system is Bad. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Robert Watson wrote: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Garrett Wollman wrote: FSVO ``useful''. It's a real PITA to have to physically unplug the machine when the kernel is wedged rather than have the power button turn off the power. (The machine in question does not have a reset switch.) As a sometime developer, I may well have a reason to power the system off without performing any kind of shutdown. Most systems with soft power will perform a hard powerdown if you hold down the power button for a sufficiently long period of time (10 - 20 seconds). Yes, it's a real PITA to have to hold down the power button for that long :) (it's normally more like 5 seconds though). I have a system that often doesn't come up after a hard reset or crash (at least video doesn't work), and have to hold its power button down for too long. I've found acpica as useful as any other disk filling service and hope it stays that way. Bruce To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On 30-Aug-2001 Alexander N. Kabaev wrote: | Freshly cvsuped kernel fails to build trying to find acpi_isa.c file, which | does not exist anymore. The following patch I sent to Mike allows the kernel to build. Index: modules/acpica/Makefile === RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/modules/acpica/Makefile,v retrieving revision 1.11 diff -u -r1.11 Makefile --- modules/acpica/Makefile 2001/07/20 06:07:34 1.11 +++ modules/acpica/Makefile 2001/08/30 16:46:46 @@ -28,7 +28,7 @@ # OSD layer SRCS+= acpi.c acpi_acad.c acpi_battery.c acpi_button.c acpi_cmbat.c acpi_cpu.c -SRCS+= acpi_ec.c acpi_isa.c acpi_lid.c acpi_pcib.c acpi_powerprofile.c +SRCS+= acpi_ec.c acpi_lid.c acpi_pcib.c acpi_powerprofile.c SRCS+= acpi_powerres.c acpi_resource.c acpi_thermal.c acpi_timer.c SRCS+= acpi_wakecode.h acpi_wakeup.c SRCS+= OsdDebug.c Index: conf/files === RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/conf/files,v retrieving revision 1.559 diff -u -r1.559 files --- conf/files 2001/08/23 23:58:49 1.559 +++ conf/files 2001/08/30 16:46:53 @@ -201,7 +201,6 @@ dev/acpica/acpi_cmbat.coptional acpica dev/acpica/acpi_cpu.c optional acpica dev/acpica/acpi_ec.c optional acpica -dev/acpica/acpi_isa.c optional acpica isa dev/acpica/acpi_lid.c optional acpica dev/acpica/acpi_pcib.c optional acpica pci dev/acpica/acpi_powerres.c optional acpica Mike -- Mike Heffner mheffner@[acm.]vt.edu Blacksburg, VA [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP signature
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On 30-Aug-2001 Alexander N. Kabaev wrote: | Freshly cvsuped kernel fails to build trying to find acpi_isa.c file, which | does not exist anymore. The following patch I sent to Mike allows the kernel to build. The files omission has been fixed; the 'acpica' module has moved to become the 'acpi' module. -- ... every activity meets with opposition, everyone who acts has his rivals and unfortunately opponents also. But not because people want to be opponents, rather because the tasks and relationships force people to take different points of view. [Dr. Fritz Todt] V I C T O R Y N O T V E N G E A N C E To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Freshly cvsuped kernel fails to build trying to find acpi_isa.c file, which does not exist anymore. On 30-Aug-2001 Mike Smith wrote: I have just committed some changes to the way that ACPI works in current. This has an impact on all -current users, so please take a few seconds to read this and feel free to ask questions. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:58:59 -0700, Mike Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: - I pushed the power button, and my system shut down cleanly! Yes. ACPI brings some useful new features. 8) FSVO ``useful''. It's a real PITA to have to physically unplug the machine when the kernel is wedged rather than have the power button turn off the power. (The machine in question does not have a reset switch.) As a sometime developer, I may well have a reason to power the system off without performing any kind of shutdown. Most systems with soft power will perform a hard powerdown if you hold down the power button for a sufficiently long period of time (10 - 20 seconds). Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project [EMAIL PROTECTED] NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Robert Watson writes: | On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Garrett Wollman wrote: | On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:58:59 -0700, Mike Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: |- I pushed the power button, and my system shut down cleanly! | | Yes. ACPI brings some useful new features. 8) | | FSVO ``useful''. It's a real PITA to have to physically unplug the | machine when the kernel is wedged rather than have the power button | turn off the power. (The machine in question does not have a reset | switch.) As a sometime developer, I may well have a reason to power | the system off without performing any kind of shutdown. | | Most systems with soft power will perform a hard powerdown if you hold | down the power button for a sufficiently long period of time (10 - 20 | seconds). Correct ... and unfortunately it's done in hardware so you can trap it :-( In some applications you want to make it really hard for someone to be able to turn it off when a power off is not equivalent to pull the plug and the pull the plug is safer for the system due to power supply design. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: HEADS UP: ACPI CHANGES AFFECTING MOST -CURRENT USERS
Doug Ambrisko wrote: Robert Watson writes: | On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Garrett Wollman wrote: | On Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:58:59 -0700, Mike Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] sai d: |- I pushed the power button, and my system shut down cleanly! | | Yes. ACPI brings some useful new features. 8) | | FSVO ``useful''. It's a real PITA to have to physically unplug the | machine when the kernel is wedged rather than have the power button | turn off the power. (The machine in question does not have a reset | switch.) As a sometime developer, I may well have a reason to power | the system off without performing any kind of shutdown. | | Most systems with soft power will perform a hard powerdown if you hold | down the power button for a sufficiently long period of time (10 - 20 | seconds). Correct ... and unfortunately it's done in hardware so you can trap it :-( In some applications you want to make it really hard for someone to be able to turn it off when a power off is not equivalent to pull the plug and the pull the plug is safer for the system due to power supply design. Most systems have a 4-second override so that holding down the power button for 4 seconds forces it off. However, my vaio is not one of these. I've had the joy of having to unplug the power and then remove the battery to get out of an acpi wedge. Anyway, IMHO, this is the least of our problems. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
