Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Ralf Quint]

On 5/27/2021 12:06 PM, Michael Brutman wrote:


Ralf: Traceroute is interesting, and it's on the todo list.  This is 
more equivalent to a TCPDUMP trace.


Yeah, that would be really helpful. As I mentioned, ping (without any 
such logging enabled) isn't really a diagnostic tool. It just tells you 
THAT a connection failed (which you already know, hence you are 
troubleshooting). A traceroute at least will tell you (in most cases) 
WHERE it fails and depending on what that host is (the blackhole IP in 
this case didn't come back as a DNS server when I made a quick test this 
morning), and that helps to determine the next possible step(s) in 
fixing any networking issue...


Ralf


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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Michael Brutman]

Kelley: That version of mTCP is nearly 8 years old ...  Please get the
current version and repeat the trace file steps.  It might even just work
without debugging ...  I've made a lot of reliability improvements in the
past 8 years.  Also, please email me *directly* ...  this is an mTCP
question, not a FreeDOS question.  Other people might be able to help, but
I'm the best qualified and I check my email more often than I check this
mailing list.

In this trace:

   - The NAMESERVER_PREFERRED setting didn't exist back then.  It is using
   your ISP as the nameserver.
   - Your machine received an ARP response, so that part is nice - you have
   connectivity to your gateway.
   - Try pinging your nameserver directly (67.168.138.6).  If you can't get
   a response, then DNS won't ever work.


Ralf: Traceroute is interesting, and it's on the todo list.  This is more
equivalent to a TCPDUMP trace.



On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:14 AM Ralf Quint  wrote:

> On 5/26/2021 10:17 PM, Kelley McChesney wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
> I went through the instructions to enable debugging and pinged
> www.brutman.com. I have attached my MTCP config file and the trace.txt
> file for you. Thank you for looking at this.
>
> Just had a look at that log file and it seems the data gets stuck at
> 67.158.138.6. That is not the IP address for the site pinged, so that is
> where you're problem lies (your router?, the address range refers to
> bentcom.net).
>
> In either case, this is a public IP address and already outside of your
> (FreeDOS) box...
>
> Ralf
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Ralf Quint]

On 5/26/2021 10:17 PM, Kelley McChesney wrote:

Hi Michael,
I went through the instructions to enable debugging and pinged 
www.brutman.com . I have attached my MTCP 
config file and the trace.txt file for you. Thank you for looking at this.
Just had a look at that log file and it seems the data gets stuck at 
67.158.138.6. That is not the IP address for the site pinged, so that is 
where you're problem lies (your router?, the address range refers to 
bentcom.net).


In either case, this is a public IP address and already outside of your 
(FreeDOS) box...


Ralf




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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Ralf Quint]

On 5/26/2021 8:04 PM, Michael Brutman wrote:
Hi - I'm the author of mTCP. mTCP is shipped with FreeDOS but it is an 
independent project.


Please check the PDF, specifically the section on debugging.  I'd like 
to see a trace from your system when you are using a bridged Ethernet 
connection.  Use PING (the one that comes with mTCP), but specifying 
the hostname should be fine for determining what your DNS problem is.


The short story is do this:

  * set debugging=255
  * set logfile=trace.txt
  * ping www.brutman.com 

Take trace.txt and then email it to me.  After I see it I can tell you 
what I think is going on and I can give you some hints on how to 
proceed.  Sending me your mTCP configuration file would also be helpful.


Is that some kind of "traceroute in disquise"? Any chance to add a 
traceroute program to the mTCP package?


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Kelley McChesney]

Hi Michael,
I went through the instructions to enable debugging and pinged
www.brutman.com. I have attached my MTCP config file and the trace.txt file
for you. Thank you for looking at this.

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 11:05 PM Michael Brutman 
wrote:

> Hi - I'm the author of mTCP. mTCP is shipped with FreeDOS but it is an
> independent project.
>
> Please check the PDF, specifically the section on debugging.  I'd like to
> see a trace from your system when you are using a bridged Ethernet
> connection.  Use PING (the one that comes with mTCP), but specifying the
> hostname should be fine for determining what your DNS problem is.
>
> The short story is do this:
>
>- set debugging=255
>- set logfile=trace.txt
>- ping www.brutman.com
>
> Take trace.txt and then email it to me.  After I see it I can tell you
> what I think is going on and I can give you some hints on how to proceed.
> Sending me your mTCP configuration file would also be helpful.
>
>
> Mike
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2021-05-26 20:15:04.36   mTcp Version: May 23 2013
2021-05-26 20:15:04.36   PACKETINT=60 MAC=08.00.27.00.D1.E6 MTU=1500
2021-05-26 20:15:04.36 IPADDR=192.168.4.77 NETMASK=255.255.252.0 
GATEWAY=192.168.4.1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.36 NAMESERVER=67.158.138.6
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   DOS Version 7.10, Sleep calls enabled: int 0x28 1  int 
0x2f:1680 0
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Dns: Sending query to 67.158.138.6 for www.brutman.com
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Udp: Send: Ip: 67.158.138.6 SrcPort: 57 DstPort: 53 
PayloadLen: 33 PreAlloc: 1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Packet: Sending 60 bytes, dumping 60
FF FF FF FF FF FF 08 00 27 00 D1 E6 08 06 00 01   '...
08 00 06 04 00 01 08 00 27 00 D1 E6 C0 A8 04 4D   '..M
FF FF FF FF FF FF C0 A8 04 01 6D 54 43 50 20 62   ..mTCP b
79 20 4D 20 42 72 75 74 6D 61 6E 00   y M Brutman.

2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Arp: Sent req for 192.168.4.1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Udp: Send: Ip: 67.158.138.6 SrcPort: 57 DstPort: 53 
PayloadLen: 33 PreAlloc: 1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Udp: Send: Ip: 67.158.138.6 SrcPort: 57 DstPort: 53 
PayloadLen: 33 PreAlloc: 1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Udp: Send: Ip: 67.158.138.6 SrcPort: 57 DstPort: 53 
PayloadLen: 33 PreAlloc: 1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Packet: Received 60 bytes, dumping 60
08 00 27 00 D1 E6 5C A5 BC BB 7F ED 08 06 00 01   ..'...\.
08 00 06 04 00 02 5C A5 BC BB 7F ED C0 A8 04 01   ..\.
08 00 27 00 D1 E6 C0 A8 04 4D 00 00 00 00 00 00   ..'..M..
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00   

2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Arp: reply from 192.168.4.1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Arp: Placed 192.168.4.1 in slot 0
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Arp: reply satisfied pending req
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Udp: Send: Ip: 67.158.138.6 SrcPort: 57 DstPort: 53 
PayloadLen: 33 PreAlloc: 1
2021-05-26 20:15:04.47   Packet: Sending 75 bytes, dumping 75
5C A5 BC BB 7F ED 08 00 27 00 D1 E6 08 00 45 00   \...'.E.
00 3D 00 04 00 00 FF 11 29 12 C0 A8 04 4D 43 9E   .=..)MC.
8A 06 00 39 00 35 00 29 27 C0 03 E1 01 80 00 01   ...9.5.)'...
00 00 00 00 00 00 03 77 77 77 07 62 72 75 74 6D   ...www.brutm
61 6E 03 63 6F 6D 00 00 01 00 01  an.com.

2021-05-26 20:15:06.45 W Dns: No activity, pushing again
2021-05-26 20:15:06.45   Dns: Resending initial query
2021-05-26 20:15:06.45   Dns: Sending query to 67.158.138.6 for www.brutman.com
2021-05-26 20:15:06.45   Udp: Send: Ip: 67.158.138.6 SrcPort: 57 DstPort: 53 
PayloadLen: 33 PreAlloc: 1
2021-05-26 20:15:06.45   Packet: Sending 75 bytes, dumping 75
5C A5 BC BB 7F ED 08 00 27 00 D1 E6 08 00 45 00   \...'.E.
00 3D 00 05 00 00 FF 11 29 11 C0 A8 04 4D 43 9E   .=..)MC.
8A 06 00 39 00 35 00 29 27 BF 03 E2 01 80 00 01   ...9.5.)'...
00 00 00 00 00 00 03 77 77 77 07 62 72 75 74 6D   ...www.brutm
61 6E 03 63 6F 6D 00 00 01 00 01  an.com.

2021-05-26 20:15:08.42 W Dns: No activity, pushing again
2021-05-26 20:15:08.42   Dns: Resending initial query
2021-05-26 20:15:08.42   Dns: Sending query to 67.158.138.6 for www.brutman.com
2021-05-26 20:15:08.42   Udp: Send: Ip: 67.158.138.6 SrcPort: 57 DstPort: 53 
PayloadLen: 33 PreAlloc: 1
2021-05-26 20:15:08.42   Packet: Sending 75 bytes, dumping 75
5C A5 BC BB 7F ED 08 00 27 00 D1 E6 08 00 45 00   \...'.E.
00 3D 00 06 00 00 FF 11 29 10 C0 A8 04 4D 43 9E   .=..)MC.
8A 06 00 39 00 35 00 29 27 BE 03 E3 01 80 00 01   ...9.5.)'...
00 00 00 00 00 00 03 77 77 77 07 62 72 75 74 6D   ...www.brutm
61 6E 03 63 6F 6D 00 00 01 00 01  an.com.

2021-05-26 20:15:10.40 W Dns: No activity, pushing again
2021-05-26 20:15:10.40   Dns: Resending initial query
2021-05-26 20:15:10.40   Dns: Sending query to 67.158.138.6 for www.brutman.com
2021-05-26 20:15:10.40   Udp: Send: Ip: 67

Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Michael Brutman]

Hi - I'm the author of mTCP. mTCP is shipped with FreeDOS but it is an
independent project.

Please check the PDF, specifically the section on debugging.  I'd like to
see a trace from your system when you are using a bridged Ethernet
connection.  Use PING (the one that comes with mTCP), but specifying the
hostname should be fine for determining what your DNS problem is.

The short story is do this:

   - set debugging=255
   - set logfile=trace.txt
   - ping www.brutman.com

Take trace.txt and then email it to me.  After I see it I can tell you what
I think is going on and I can give you some hints on how to proceed.
Sending me your mTCP configuration file would also be helpful.


Mike
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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Eric Auer]

Hi again,

> Hi Ralf, I actually can't use traceroute to find the problem. This is in a
> VM and as far as I know traceroute doesn't exist for FreeDOS.

According to

http://www.bttr-software.de/freesoft/comm1.htm

there is a traceroute (tracert) included with wattcp32.

Other implementations could exist as well, but for example
classic 16-bit Watt/TCP and Brutman's mTCP do not seem to
include it. I probably overlooked a number of traceroutes.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Kelley McChesney]

Hi Ralf, I actually can't use traceroute to find the problem. This is in a
VM and as far as I know traceroute doesn't exist for FreeDOS. I have tried
other VMs and they seem to work fine with different OS's, so this is purely
a FreeDOS issue.

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 5:09 PM Ralf Quint  wrote:

> On 5/26/2021 1:45 PM, Kelley McChesney wrote:
> > Hi Eric, I've actually been trying DHCP, which seems to be fine. I
> > tried your recommendations and tested both my router's gateway as a
> > nameserver and checked what my host computer was using. Unfortunately,
> > my host computer was using the same server as the DHCP server was
> > giving FreeDOS and my router's gateway didn't work either. I did try
> > pinging some other IP addresses besides 8.8.8.8 that are outside my
> > network and I do seem to have a connection, so it must be a problem
> > DNS-wise.
> Don't use ping, that is a horrible diagnostic tool. It just tells you
> what you already know, that a connection works or it doesn't.
>
> Try using traceroute (tracert in Windows) to find out WHERE
> data/connection is being lost...
>
> Ralf
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Ralf Quint]

On 5/26/2021 1:45 PM, Kelley McChesney wrote:
Hi Eric, I've actually been trying DHCP, which seems to be fine. I 
tried your recommendations and tested both my router's gateway as a 
nameserver and checked what my host computer was using. Unfortunately, 
my host computer was using the same server as the DHCP server was 
giving FreeDOS and my router's gateway didn't work either. I did try 
pinging some other IP addresses besides 8.8.8.8 that are outside my 
network and I do seem to have a connection, so it must be a problem 
DNS-wise.
Don't use ping, that is a horrible diagnostic tool. It just tells you 
what you already know, that a connection works or it doesn't.


Try using traceroute (tracert in Windows) to find out WHERE 
data/connection is being lost...


Ralf



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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Kelley McChesney]

Hi Eric, I've actually been trying DHCP, which seems to be fine. I tried
your recommendations and tested both my router's gateway as a nameserver
and checked what my host computer was using. Unfortunately, my host
computer was using the same server as the DHCP server was giving FreeDOS
and my router's gateway didn't work either. I did try pinging some other IP
addresses besides 8.8.8.8 that are outside my network and I do seem to have
a connection, so it must be a problem DNS-wise.

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:28 PM Eric Auer  wrote:

>
> Hi!
>
> > Unfortunately it does actually seem to be a networking issue. I just
> tried
> > to wget the current fdnpkg file from ibiblio.org and it failed,
> reporting:
> > "Resolving www.ibiblio.org... failed: No address associated with
> hostname.
>
> Note that 8.8.8.8 is a nameserver outside your house, you could try
> to set the IP of your network router or modem as nameserver. Those
> often provide DNS proxy or cache services. Also, you could try DHCP,
> which automatically asks the local network for suitable configuration.
>
> In DOS, the disadvantage of DHCP is that it might have to ask again
> for each network access, because there is no permanently active DOS
> network running in the background: Only apps themselve use the net.
>
> One idea would be to check another Linux or Windows computer in your
> network to see which setting those use and derive one for DOS from it.
>
> Regards, Eric
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

> Unfortunately it does actually seem to be a networking issue. I just tried
> to wget the current fdnpkg file from ibiblio.org and it failed, reporting:
> "Resolving www.ibiblio.org... failed: No address associated with hostname.

Note that 8.8.8.8 is a nameserver outside your house, you could try
to set the IP of your network router or modem as nameserver. Those
often provide DNS proxy or cache services. Also, you could try DHCP,
which automatically asks the local network for suitable configuration.

In DOS, the disadvantage of DHCP is that it might have to ask again
for each network access, because there is no permanently active DOS
network running in the background: Only apps themselve use the net.

One idea would be to check another Linux or Windows computer in your
network to see which setting those use and derive one for DOS from it.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Kelley McChesney]

Unfortunately it does actually seem to be a networking issue. I just tried
to wget the current fdnpkg file from ibiblio.org and it failed, reporting:
"Resolving www.ibiblio.org... failed: No address associated with hostname.
wget.exe: unable to resolve host address 'www.ibiblio.org'". I did forget
to mention this in my first email but I did previously try adding 8.8.8.8
as a NAMESERVER_PREFERRED in the MTCP config file but it had the same
problem.

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 1:58 AM Jerome Shidel  wrote:

> Since you had ping working, you probably had networking working.
>
> So, it may just be an issue with the config file for FDNPKG that got
> installed. You should verify the settings in C:\FDOS\BIN\FDNPKG.CFG or you
> can just fetch the latest version of the package from the online repository
> at
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.2/pkg-html/fdnpkg.html
>  and
> use unzip and update that config and binary by hand.
>
> On May 25, 2021, at 8:20 PM, Kelley McChesney 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Hi,
>
> I was having trouble getting my network setup with FreeDOS 1.2 on
> Virtualbox. I installed FDNet, Ping, and MTCP after installation, but after
> rebooting, I get strange network issues. I have tried both Bridged and NAT
> networking. With bridged, I get a DHCP connection and can ping IP
> addresses, but when I try to connect to any web address (mainly just
> running 'fdnpkg update'), it will try to connect for about a minute then
> says 'Repository download failed!'. With NAT, it is similar, but I cannot
> ping any IP addresses and fdnpkg returns the same issue instantaneously
> without waiting 30 seconds. Anyone have an idea what could be the issue?
>
> Thanks, Kelley
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Re: [Freedos-user] Virtualbox Networking Issue

[Jerome Shidel]

Since you had ping working, you probably had networking working. 

So, it may just be an issue with the config file for FDNPKG that got installed. 
You should verify the settings in C:\FDOS\BIN\FDNPKG.CFG or you can just fetch 
the latest version of the package from the online repository at 
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.2/pkg-html/fdnpkg.html
 and use unzip and update that config and binary by hand.

> On May 25, 2021, at 8:20 PM, Kelley McChesney  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was having trouble getting my network setup with FreeDOS 1.2 on Virtualbox. 
> I installed FDNet, Ping, and MTCP after installation, but after rebooting, I 
> get strange network issues. I have tried both Bridged and NAT networking. 
> With bridged, I get a DHCP connection and can ping IP addresses, but when I 
> try to connect to any web address (mainly just running 'fdnpkg update'), it 
> will try to connect for about a minute then says 'Repository download 
> failed!'. With NAT, it is similar, but I cannot ping any IP addresses and 
> fdnpkg returns the same issue instantaneously without waiting 30 seconds. 
> Anyone have an idea what could be the issue?
> 
> Thanks, Kelley
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Re: [Freedos-user] virtualbox int 15 memdisk failure - was: Unable to install FreeDOS 1.2 on VirtualBox

[Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user]

Both "int" and "raw" launch properly, but "bigint" gives the same ol' "Invalid 
Opcode" loop.

VirtualBox doesn't have an explicit setting for AHCI versus IDE, but you can 
get the same effect through what type of storage controller you add to your 
virtual machine; if you want it handled as AHCI, you add a SATA controller, and 
if you want IDE, you add an IDE controller. The VirtualBox BIOS has no "Setup" 
interface of which I'm aware. Boy, I wish it did!


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On July 31, 2018 4:42 AM, Eric Auer  wrote:

> Hi!
>
> > To further isolate the Invalid Opcode issue, I extracted the floppy
> > image (FDBOOT.IMG from the ISOLINUX folder) from the ISO and booted
> > it as a floppy disk in VirtualBox which launched the installer
> > flawlessly.
>
> Thanks for the testing! So apparently NOINVLPG would not have helped.
> How about the memdisk "int" instead of "bigint" or "raw" options?
>
> Does VirtualBox have options to select AHCI versus IDE or to change
> the int 15 memory access styles?
>
> Cheers, Eric
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] virtualbox int 15 memdisk failure - was: Unable to install FreeDOS 1.2 on VirtualBox

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

> To further isolate the Invalid Opcode issue, I extracted the floppy
> image (FDBOOT.IMG from the ISOLINUX folder) from the ISO and booted
> it as a floppy disk in VirtualBox which launched the installer
> flawlessly.

Thanks for the testing! So apparently NOINVLPG would not have helped.
How about the memdisk "int" instead of "bigint" or "raw" options?

Does VirtualBox have options to select AHCI versus IDE or to change
the int 15 memory access styles?

Cheers, Eric


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Re: [Freedos-user] virtualbox int 15 memdisk failure - was: Unable to install FreeDOS 1.2 on VirtualBox

[Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user]

So, being a VirtualBox "owner", I did some testing. :)

First, I tested three methods of installing FreeDOS 1.2: FD12CD.iso, 
FD12LGCY.iso, and FLOPPY.IMG from FD12FLOPPY.ZIP. The infinite Invalid Opcode 
loop only occurs for me when booting FD12CD.iso. Oddly enough, booting 
FD12LGCY.iso on VirtualBox gives the message, "Unfortunately, this method of 
installation is not supported on this platform. Please try a different 
installation method.", although you can proceed to run the setup program from 
the prompt and it launches normally. I didn't run the setup through to 
completion since I have stuff on my virtual HD that I don't want to lose, but I 
can test that further with a blank one if it would help. The floppy image from 
the ZIP boots without issue.

To further isolate the Invalid Opcode issue, I extracted the floppy image 
(FDBOOT.IMG from the ISOLINUX folder) from the ISO and booted it as a floppy 
disk in VirtualBox which launched the installer flawlessly. The only difference 
was taking ISOLinux out of the mix, so it seems to me that VirtualBox is doing 
exactly what it should, it's just ISOLinux that isn't happy.

Hope that helps!


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On July 29, 2018 6:56 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:

> Hi Jim, others,
>
> > Mercury Thirteen means this:
>
> > https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/bugs/212/#1b4c
>
> > I'm not sure why VirtualBox has this problem. I don't recall that we
> > saw this when wen tested the FreeDOS 1.2 distribution, did we? Or
> > did VirtualBox have some regression? I use a different VM, so I don't
> > know.
>
> For those without HTTPS SF compatible DOS browsers or extra time...
>
> Andrew Pennebaker wrote 2018-05-05 about freedos12:
>
> > I am trying to install FreeDOS in a virtual machine using VirtualBox,
> > but a few seconds after I press Enter to begin the installation
> > process, I get an infinite scrolling list of "Invalid Opcode"
> > errors.
>
> > I'm using FreeDOS 1.2, in VirtualBox 5.2.10, in macOS 10.13 High
> > Sierra.
>
> Jim originally suggested to use the /NOINVLPG option for JEMM386 based
> on http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/VirtualBox and disabling AHCI
> mode and selecting legacy IDE mode in BIOS setup, but later he wrote:
>
> > An alternative solution I've seen mentioned elsewhere is adding the
> > raw parameter to memdisk in the boot menu.
>
> > When you boot the FreeDOS install CDROM, when you get the get the
> > first "Welcome to FreeDOS 1.2" boot menu, press Tab when you're on
> > "Install to harddisk" and add 'raw' (without quotes) to the kernel
> > command line, then press Enter to boot.
>
> > From this: KERNEL /boot/syslinux/memdisk
>
> > To this: KERNEL /boot/syslinux/memdisk raw
>
> According tohttps://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=MEMDISK
>
> that magic "raw" parameter is about memory access and sizing:
>
> https://www.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=MEMDISK#Memory_access_method
>
> > Memory access method
>
> > MEMDISK normally uses the BIOS "INT 15h mover" API to access high
> > memory. This is well-behaved with extended memory managers which load
> > later. Unfortunately, it appears that the "DOS boot disk" from WinME/XP
> > deliberately crash the system when this API is invoked. The following
> > command-line options tell MEMDISK to enter protected mode directly,
> > whenever possible:
>
> > raw Use raw access to protected mode memory.
>
> > bigraw Use raw access to protected mode memory, and leave the
> > CPU in "big real" mode afterwards.
>
> > int Use plain INT 15h access to protected memory. This assumes
> > that anything which hooks INT 15h knows what it is doing.
>
> > safeint Use INT 15h access to protected memory, but invoke
> > INT 15h the way it was before MEMDISK was loaded.
> > This is the default since version 3.73.
>
> So apparently VirtualBox has a problem in the int 15 memory copy API!?
>
> If that is the case, then I would expect HIMEM to have problems as
> well, while EMM386 should have fewer problems as it uses protected
> mode directly in more cases? Or is this just about some special case
> of reentrancy? Related to how both MEMDISK and LBACACHE try to use
> memory beyond 1 MB, one for the disk image, the other for XMS cache?
> In the latter case, LBACACHE should be told to not cache a MEMDISK.
>
> The best solution would probably be to improve the VirtualBox BIOS??
>
> Another idea would be to try the MEMDISK "int" option which respects
> int 15 hooks, because HIMEM probably has to hook int 15 as well and
> the "safeint" default of avoiding new hooks might be exactly wrong?
>
> It would be cool if some VirtualBox owners could do some testing :-)
>
> Thanks! Regards, Eric
>
> PS: Do we know whether NOINVLPG actually helped in THIS situation?
>
>
> 

Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Am 01.09.2014 um 21:51 schrieb Michael Brutman :

> On 9/1/2014 12:30 PM, Tom Ehlert wrote:
>> any good reason mTCP and DHCP can't update/use WATTCP.directly ?
>> 
>> imho there should be a *single* network configuration file, used by
>> *all* network stuff on the machine.
>> 
>> changing mTCP to understand WATTCP.CFG is trivial. (WATTCP.CFG has
>> been around for ages, and mTCP is under active development, so mTCP
>> should learn to understand WATTCP.CFG)
> 
> I took a look at the WATTCP configuration file once and I found some 
> extra things in there that could complicate things, so I moved along.

The idea to add a "/W" option to DHCP.EXE sounds really nice. At first glance.

But after the "/W" for WATTCP.CFG, a "/N" option might also be a good idea - 
why not translate the same network values into environment settings for NTCPDRV 
programs?

And then add a "/MS" option, to put them into Microsofts PROTOCOL.INI too 
(nobody understood "DisableDHCP=0" anyway).

:-)

This was irony.

> I wrote mTCP from scratch before I was aware of WATTCP.  I can count on 
> my fingers the number of times I've used WATTCP apps since I've become 
> aware of it.  

I needed a working WATTCP.CFG because I wanted a working FDNPKG. 

VirtualBox uses NAT networking per default. The WATTCP.CFG in FreeDOS 1.1 
configures DHCP per default. WATTCP programs do not seem to recognize the DHCP 
server used by VirtualBox NAT. 

So FDNPKG will not work in VirtualBox. 

At least not out of the box. :-)

FDNPKG is a promising idea how to get, install and update FreeDOS programs. It 
is a WATTCP app. So if it goes into FreeDOS 1.2, you might need more fingers in 
the future. ;-) 

> Another option would be to just fix the WATTCP code so that it handles 
> DHCP better.  Has anybody looked into that?

Maybe it's the other way around? The problem wouldn't occur, if FDNPKG would 
use mTCP HTGET (or at least the code) to download the packages instead of the 
old WATTCP stack. Why fix old code, when there's brilliant new code for 
brilliant new programs? But this might be just a users point of view.

Anyway: For the moment the problem seems to be solved. VirtualBox users can use 
M2WAT.COM and maybe it also goes into a future FreeDOS version, so most users 
will never have to think about WATTCP.CFG again.

Ulrich


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Michael Brutman]

On 9/1/2014 12:30 PM, Tom Ehlert wrote:
> any good reason mTCP and DHCP can't update/use WATTCP.directly ?
>
> imho there should be a *single* network configuration file, used by
> *all* network stuff on the machine.
>
> changing mTCP to understand WATTCP.CFG is trivial. (WATTCP.CFG has
> been around for ages, and mTCP is under active development, so mTCP
> should learn to understand WATTCP.CFG)

I took a look at the WATTCP configuration file once and I found some 
extra things in there that could complicate things, so I moved along.  
If somebody else wants to pick up the mTCP DHCP source code and change 
it they are welcome to do so.  I've contributed quite a bit the last few 
years.

I wrote mTCP from scratch before I was aware of WATTCP.  I can count on 
my fingers the number of times I've used WATTCP apps since I've become 
aware of it.  While I am happy that people are using my code, I code for 
my own enjoyment.  And WATTCP is not on the RADAR at the moment.

Another option would be to just fix the WATTCP code so that it handles 
DHCP better.  Has anybody looked into that?


Mike

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Tom Ehlert]

Hi,

> I don't want to brag too much, but M2WAT shows the absolute brilliance
> of separating the DHCP process from the programs.  ;-0 The mTCP programs
> do not know or care about DHCP; they behave the same whether they have a
> static IP address or a DHCP obtained one.  M2WAT helps the WATTCP 
> programs behave the same way; they can run as though they are on a fixed
> address and only M2WAT knows the difference.

any good reason mTCP and DHCP can't update/use WATTCP.directly ?

imho there should be a *single* network configuration file, used by
*all* network stuff on the machine.

changing mTCP to understand WATTCP.CFG is trivial. (WATTCP.CFG has
been around for ages, and mTCP is under active development, so mTCP
should learn to understand WATTCP.CFG)

> For FreeDOS the installer can place M2WAT wherever it makes the most sense.

there is no good reason to add, document, or even discuss another
program (even if it is open source) with little reason to exist in the
first place

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[dmccunney]

On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
> DHCP separation can be nice, but it has also its downsides.
>
> It's definitely a nice choice because it makes programs a bit smaller.
> However, a problem might appear in the (unlikely?) situation where a
> user plays with a network-enabled program while his lease expires.

On home routers I've used, you can associate a device with an IP
address and have the router always assign the same one.  You can also
set the time for a lease.

While the above mentioned issue can be irritating, it's easy enough to
work around, and anyone trying to attach a FreeDOS machine to a home
network should be able to do it.  FreeDOS *is* a techie toy, and
making actual use of it requires various sorts of knowledge.

I'm all in favor of separating DHCP from TCP.  The FTP program needs
an IP address.  It should neither know nor care whether it was
assigned by DHCP or is a static address.

The question on the mentioned downside is "How likely is it to
happen?" and the answer is "Not likely enough to justify efforts to
work around it."  If the user gets bit, they can change their router
configuration.   If they don't know how to do that, they are unlikely
to be running FreeDOS in the first place.

> Mateusz
__
Dennis

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Michael Brutman]

The expiring lease problem is irritating.  My answer to that is have 
people choose reasonable lease times and to run DHCP before doing 
something that might run a while.  "Reasonable" generally means at least 
8 hours ...

If 8 hours is too long a nice work around is to configure the DHCP 
server to assign the same address each time to a given MAC address.  
This allows the DOS machine to use DHCP while having the benefits of a 
fixed address.  It is also possible to just configure things statically 
and avoid the problem entirely.

For the very long running programs (the web server or the FTP server) 
I've thought about including the DHCP and SNTP code in them; that would 
allow them to refresh their lease and keep the system time accurate for 
extended periods of time.  (Days or weeks ...)  The DHCP portion would 
not be necessary if using one of the two work-arounds above.


Mike

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Mateusz Viste]

DHCP separation can be nice, but it has also its downsides.

It's definitely a nice choice because it makes programs a bit smaller. 
However, a problem might appear in the (unlikely?) situation where a 
user plays with a network-enabled program while his lease expires.

Say, my DHCP router provides leases of 1h. Then I run the MTCP FTP 
program and move files back and forth on various servers for a long time 
- after 1h my lease expires, and depending on the implementation of the 
local DHCP server, havoc may start if it attributes "my" IP to another 
client. This is of course an extremal case, since usually DHCP servers 
provide longer leases, but who knows.

DHCP clients are supposed to renew their IP as soon as their lease 
expire - or sooner (many times they do it halfway). Using an external 
DHCP process makes this impossible (unless written as a TSR, which is 
not the case here, and would probably end up being a memory hog anyway).

But for any "reasonable" use, an external DHCP tool is very fine, yes. 
Just wanted to provide a 'full' picture on the subject :)

cheers,
Mateusz




On 09/01/2014 08:30 PM, Michael Brutman wrote:
> I don't want to brag too much, but M2WAT shows the absolute brilliance
> of separating the DHCP process from the programs.  ;-0 The mTCP programs
> do not know or care about DHCP; they behave the same whether they have a
> static IP address or a DHCP obtained one.  M2WAT helps the WATTCP
> programs behave the same way; they can run as though they are on a fixed
> address and only M2WAT knows the difference.
>
> If David does not mind I would provide a link to M2WAT or even host a
> self-contained ZIP of the source code and executable on my mTCP home
> page.  But I don't think I am going to put it in with the other mTCP
> programs; those are pretty much 100% my authorship and I don't want to
> mix things in.
>
> For FreeDOS the installer can place M2WAT wherever it makes the most sense.
>
>
> Mike

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Michael Brutman]

I don't want to brag too much, but M2WAT shows the absolute brilliance 
of separating the DHCP process from the programs.  ;-0 The mTCP programs 
do not know or care about DHCP; they behave the same whether they have a 
static IP address or a DHCP obtained one.  M2WAT helps the WATTCP 
programs behave the same way; they can run as though they are on a fixed 
address and only M2WAT knows the difference.

If David does not mind I would provide a link to M2WAT or even host a 
self-contained ZIP of the source code and executable on my mTCP home 
page.  But I don't think I am going to put it in with the other mTCP 
programs; those are pretty much 100% my authorship and I don't want to 
mix things in.

For FreeDOS the installer can place M2WAT wherever it makes the most sense.


Mike

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich Hansen]

> Am 01.09.2014 um 17:05 schrieb Ulrich :
> 
> Mike, what do you think - would it be a good idea to ship it with your mTCP 
> package?

If this is Ok with Dave, I should have written of course.
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Hi

Thanks a lot, Dave, for the program. I was eager to try it, so I downloaded 
OpenWatcom and compiled my first DOS program :-))
Had some time, while my son listened to some audiobook called "Mama Muh". :-)

I copied the program lines to a file m2wat.c and used these settings:
 
wcc m2wat /ms
wlink system com file m2wat

(Maybe anyone has better/more appropriate compile options??)

The resulting binary is m2wat.com which can be downloaded here, in case anyone 
else wants to test it.
http://lazybrowndog.net/freedos/M2WAT.COM

I tested it and everything seems to work.

I like a lot that M2WAT.COM looks for the environment settings

SET MTCPCFG=C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG
SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\FDOS

in AUTOEXEC.BAT which allows me to use it from any directory. And also allows 
to change the directories for the config files of WATTCP and mTCP programs in 
the future.

The program works as expected. Everything else in WATTCP.CFG stays intact and 
the settings are made in the original lines in WATTCP.CFG (and not at the 
beginning, as my batchfile did it). 

The two variations of the IP setting ("my_ip = n.n.n.n or "IP = n.n.n.n") are 
also correctly interpreted - M2WAT.COM uses the original name and just 
exchanges the IP address. So this is also working fine.

The only thing I'd put on the wishlist would be a backup of the original 
WATTCP.CFG to WATTCP.BAK.

As the results of M2WAT.COM are trivial to review (just the four settings for 
IP/my_ip, netmask, nameserver and gateway in WATTCP.CFG) I would say the 
program is ready and working. 

Mike, what do you think - would it be a good idea to ship it with your mTCP 
package? It would help DOS users who have a DHCP server and use mTCP programs 
but also WATTCP programs that need fixed IPs. (Or like in my case, use the DHCP 
server built in VirtualBox which is not recognized by WATTCP programs). 

I know this might not be a big number of users ;-)

Thanks again to Dave for this little program!

Ulrich





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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Michael Brutman]

On 8/31/2014 1:36 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Michael Brutman  
> wrote:
>> It pains me to see this much effort going into what should be a small
>> utility that takes the relevant mTCP obtained network parameters and
>> writes them into the WATTCP file.  There are 15 invocations of the
>> mt.exe program in that script.
> I agree it could maybe be more optimal, but as long as it works, it's
> no deal breaker. Just calling it 15 times isn't really a direct
> problem, nor necessarily slow either.

Sure.  My 4.77Mhz floppy based systems are going to do well with this.

Let's not speculate.  There are lots of different use cases out there.  
Loading and executing a program 15 times to do some simple string 
manipulation is slow and painful on a low end system.  You would do 
faster to type it in by hand using edlin.  Even on a fast system it is 
still much slower than it should be.

Cordata's program seems reasonable.  I would get rid of the multiple 
printfs at the end and just use a large block quote.  Somebody who uses 
WATTCP might want to step up, test it, and see if there are any bugs.


Mike



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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[cordata02]

 

>I suggest that somebody write a small program that takes the current 
>>configuration parameters from the mTCP configuration file and updates a 
>WATTCP >configuration file.  It should not be a terribly complicated program - 
>you just >have to do some light string processing. 

Here' you go:

/*
 M2WAT - Convert mTCP configuration file to WATTCP format.

Copyright (C) 2011 by Cordata

This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA  02110-1301, USA.


 This program uses the environment variable MTCPCFG to find
 an mTCP configuration file.  This file is interesting to the
 WATTCP user because it may contain IP address information from
 DHCP.

*/

#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 

#ifdef __WATCOMC__
#define mktemp _mktemp
#endif

#define MAX_CFG 4 /* increase this if more data from mTCP goes to WATTCP */
#define MAX_ALIAS 2   /* increase if a WATTCP parameter has more names */

#define NO_ALIAS  ""
#define LINE_LEN  81

typedef struct cfg_dat
{
char *mtcp_name;/* how does mTCP refer to parameter */
char *wattcp_name[MAX_ALIAS];   /* how does WATTCP refer to parameter */
char mtcp_value[LINE_LEN];  /* what is the mTCP value for parameter */
int  written_2_wat; /* has parameter been written to WATTCP file */
}  cfg_dat_type;

/* the following table can be used to add items from mTCP to push
   into the WATTCP file.   To add new items just add entries to this
   table.  We account for WATTCP having multiple names for parameters.
   In particular the IP address can be called "IP" or "MY_IP".

   */
cfg_dat_type  cfg_data[MAX_CFG] =
{
{ "IPADDR","MY_IP","IP","",0},
{ "GATEWAY","GATEWAY",NO_ALIAS,"",0},
{ "NETMASK","NETMASK",NO_ALIAS,"",0},
{ "NAMESERVER","NAMESERVER",NO_ALIAS,"",0},
};

/* function prototypes */
void adjust_wat_line (char *wat_line, char *dst);
void store_mtcp_line(char *);
void strip(char *);
void usage(void);

void main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
char *mtcp, *wattcp;  /* environment variable pointers */

char str[LINE_LEN],w_fname[LINE_LEN],tmp_fname[LINE_LEN];

FILE *m_file, *w_file, *new_w_file;

int l,p,new_file=0;

if (argc != 1)
  usage();

if (!(mtcp=getenv("MTCPCFG")))
   {
   fprintf(stderr,"ERROR: must set MTCPCFG environment variable\n");
   exit(1);
   }

m_file = fopen(mtcp,"r");

if (!m_file) 
   {
   fprintf(stderr,"Error opening mTCP config file %s\n",mtcp);
   exit(1);
   }

while (fgets(str,LINE_LEN -1,m_file))
   {
   str[LINE_LEN -1]='\0';
   strip(str);
   store_mtcp_line(str);
   }
fclose(m_file);


if (!(wattcp=getenv("WATTCP.CFG")))
{
printf("No WATTCP.CFG Environment variable. Using current directory.\n");
wattcp=".";
}
   
strcpy(w_fname,wattcp);
w_fname[LINE_LEN -1 ]='\0';
l=strlen(w_fname);
if (l > (LINE_LEN - 12))
 {
 fprintf(stderr,"ERROR: WATTCP directory too long.\n");
 exit(1);
 }

if ((w_fname[l-1] != '\\') && (w_fname[l-1] != '/'))
  strcat(w_fname,"\\");

strcpy(tmp_fname, w_fname); /* same directory for temp file */
strcat(tmp_fname,"XX");
strcat(w_fname,"WATTCP.CFG");

if (!(w_file=fopen(w_fname,"r")))
  {
  char ch;
  printf("WATTCP config file %s does not exist.\n",w_fname);
  printf("Do you want to create it? (Y/N)");
  do ch=toupper(getch()); 
 while ((ch != 'Y') && (ch != 'N'));
  if (ch == 'N')
exit(0);
  new_file=1;
  }
  if (!mktemp(tmp_fname))
 {
 printf("Error: Unable to create temporary file.\n");
 exit(1);
 }

   new_w_file= fopen(tmp_fname,"w");

if (!new_file)
{
while (fgets(str,LINE_LEN -1,w_file))  /* read lines from WATTCP file */
   {
   char buf[LINE_LEN];
   str[LINE_LEN -1]='\0';
   strip(str);
   adjust_wat_line(str,buf);   /* add mTCP info to line, comment out or do 
nothing*/
   fprintf(new_w_file,"%s\n",buf); /* write to new file*/
   }
fclose(w_file);
}

/* now check to see if we missed anything */
  for (p=0;p--
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Michael Brutman  wrote:
>
> It pains me to see this much effort going into what should be a small
> utility that takes the relevant mTCP obtained network parameters and
> writes them into the WATTCP file.  There are 15 invocations of the
> mt.exe program in that script.

I agree it could maybe be more optimal, but as long as it works, it's
no deal breaker. Just calling it 15 times isn't really a direct
problem, nor necessarily slow either.

What I didn't understand was that Ulrich says "I used sed on *nix",
but for some reason he seems to only prefer MiniTrue for DOS. Not sure
why. Maybe he's unfamiliar with the various DOS ports:

http://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/file/sed/

Obviously sed can use a script file via "-f" and/or separate commands via "-e":

sed -e "s/^red/blue/" -e "/green/d" -f script.sed myfile.txt

> I suggest that somebody write a small program that takes the current
> configuration parameters from the mTCP configuration file and updates a
> WATTCP configuration file.  It should not be a terribly complicated
> program - you just have to do some light string processing.

I see little use for writing a one-off compiled program to do this.
Maybe you think it'll be faster, smaller, less clunky to do it
directly instead of lots of manual search and replace? Not sure what
the benefit would be here. (Although, IMO, Turbo Pascal or even
FreePascal would be a good fit with its string support.)

> Then one
> would be able to run the mTCP DHCP program, run the utility, and have
> both mTCP and WATTCP apps configured and ready to go.

I'm not familiar with MiniTrue syntax, so I'm not exactly sure what
needs to be changed here.

> As an alternative you can contact David Dunfield and see if he would
> license his code in a way that FreeDOS could use it.  Or just simply use
> it, but don't distribute it with FreeDOS.  (A readme file or the wiki
> can point to it as a useful utility no matter what the license is, or if
> source is not even available.)

Well, who wants to email him? I doubt he needs ten of us asking the
same thing. But again, I don't think it's a horrible dealbreaker "as
is".

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[cordata02]

If you're really concerned about a bunch of other parameters in WATTCP.CFG, the 
more elegant solution (in my opinion of course) is this:

Do my original bat file.

At the end of the bat file put this:
echo "include c:\otherwat.cfg" >> wattcp.cfg

Keep all your other stuff in "otherwat.cfg" ... 

Most (likely all) of that other stuff is not needed anyway.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Ulrich 
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 

Sent: Sun, Aug 31, 2014 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP


I am sorry, there were some errors in my previous post:

The batchfile has to be called like this in AUTOEXEC.BAT, right after the line 
DHCP:

DHCP
CALL C:\FDOS\M2WAT.BAT

Otherwise it wouldn't return to AUTOEXEC.BAT.

There were also errors in the batchfile itself. I made some changes, now it 
seems to work. Sorry for the inconvenience.


@echo off
rem convert MTCP config file to WATTCP format

rem 1. Make a backup of WATTCP.CFG
copy /y c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg c:\fdos\wattcp.bak

rem 2. Preserve the settings of WATTCP.CFG
copy /y c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr

rem 3. Delete the settings we need to get from MTCP.CFG
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^my_ip.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^IP.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^netmask.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^gateway.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^nameserver.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^hostname.*\n = \r
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr \r = \z

rem 4. Get the settings from MTCP.CFG
copy /y c:\fdos\mtcp.cfg c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg

rem 5. First comment out every line with a '#'
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg (^) = #

rem 6. Now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if needed
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=

rem 7. Remove all lines leftover from MTCP.CFG
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #.*\n =
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg # =

rem 8. Append all the other settings from the original WATTCP.CFG
type c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr >> c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg

rem 9. Clean up.
del c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr




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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Am 31.08.2014 um 05:31 schrieb dmccunney :

> it looks like
> 
> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip= #netmask = netmask=  #gateway
> = gateway=  #nameserver = nameserver=  #hostname = hostname=
> 
> would do the same thing.

Hmm. Doesn't. Scrambles wattcp.cfg. :-(
But was a good idea.

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[dmccunney]

On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 11:10 PM, Michael Brutman  wrote:
>
> It pains me to see this much effort going into what should be a small
> utility that takes the relevant mTCP obtained network parameters and
> writes them into the WATTCP file.  There are 15 invocations of the
> mt.exe program in that script.

Among other things, the MiniTrue docs indicate you can have multiple
find/replace strings on a command line, so there isn't a need to
invoke mt that often.

For example, instead of

mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=

it looks like

mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip= #netmask = netmask=  #gateway
= gateway=  #nameserver = nameserver=  #hostname = hostname=

would do the same thing.

> As an alternative you can contact David Dunfield and see if he would
> license his code in a way that FreeDOS could use it.  Or just simply use
> it, but don't distribute it with FreeDOS.  (A readme file or the wiki
> can point to it as a useful utility no matter what the license is, or if
> source is not even available.)

There are lots of useful DOS tools not offered under a license that
permits distribution with FreeDOS, but that doesn't mean they
shouldn't be used.  If nothing else, the wiki can have pointers to
them.

> Mike
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https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Michael Brutman]

It pains me to see this much effort going into what should be a small 
utility that takes the relevant mTCP obtained network parameters and 
writes them into the WATTCP file.  There are 15 invocations of the 
mt.exe program in that script.

I suggest that somebody write a small program that takes the current 
configuration parameters from the mTCP configuration file and updates a 
WATTCP configuration file.  It should not be a terribly complicated 
program - you just have to do some light string processing.  Then one 
would be able to run the mTCP DHCP program, run the utility, and have 
both mTCP and WATTCP apps configured and ready to go.

As an alternative you can contact David Dunfield and see if he would 
license his code in a way that FreeDOS could use it.  Or just simply use 
it, but don't distribute it with FreeDOS.  (A readme file or the wiki 
can point to it as a useful utility no matter what the license is, or if 
source is not even available.)


Mike

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

I am sorry, there were some errors in my previous post:

The batchfile has to be called like this in AUTOEXEC.BAT, right after the line 
DHCP:

DHCP
CALL C:\FDOS\M2WAT.BAT

Otherwise it wouldn't return to AUTOEXEC.BAT.

There were also errors in the batchfile itself. I made some changes, now it 
seems to work. Sorry for the inconvenience.


@echo off
rem convert MTCP config file to WATTCP format

rem 1. Make a backup of WATTCP.CFG
copy /y c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg c:\fdos\wattcp.bak

rem 2. Preserve the settings of WATTCP.CFG
copy /y c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr

rem 3. Delete the settings we need to get from MTCP.CFG
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^my_ip.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^IP.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^netmask.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^gateway.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^nameserver.*\n = \z
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr ^hostname.*\n = \r
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr \r = \z

rem 4. Get the settings from MTCP.CFG
copy /y c:\fdos\mtcp.cfg c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg

rem 5. First comment out every line with a '#'
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg (^) = #

rem 6. Now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if needed
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=

rem 7. Remove all lines leftover from MTCP.CFG
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg #.*\n =
C:\MTR202B\mt.exe -b- -c -n c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg # =

rem 8. Append all the other settings from the original WATTCP.CFG
type c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr >> c:\fdos\wattcp.cfg

rem 9. Clean up.
del c:\fdos\wattcp.mtr




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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Am 30.08.2014 um 23:56 schrieb Mateusz Viste :

> Thanks for sharing!
> I might have missed something, but why haven't you used the DHCP.COM tool 
> from Dave Dunfield, instead of all the sed-like magic? Just curious.

The main reason is that (unfortunately) DHCP.COM doesn't seem to be free 
software (yet). So it can't be distributed. 

Ulrich
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi Ulrich,

Thanks for sharing!
I might have missed something, but why haven't you used the DHCP.COM tool from 
Dave Dunfield, instead of all the sed-like magic? Just curious.

Mateusz





On August 30, 2014 11:47:35 PM GMT+02:00, Ulrich  wrote:
>
>I think I found a solution.
>
>The problem was: 
>
>When I choose "NAT" as network type for a VirtualBox FreeDOS 1.1 guest,
>only mTCP DHCP.EXE is able to get the correct IP addresses from the
>DHCP server provided by VirtualBox. WATTCP applications fail to get
>their IPs from that DHCP server.
>
>The idea: 
>Let mTCPs DHCP.EXE get the correct settings and write them to
>C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG. Then extract them from MTCP.CFG and put them as fixed
>network settings into C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG. 
>
>Dave pointed me to Minitrue and provided a batch file. So I
>experimented a bit and made some additions:
>- no lines from MTCP.CFG are leftover in WATTCP.CFG
>- all other settings in WATTCP.CFG stay intact and are not modified.
>
>Prerequisites
>Get Minitrue 2.02 which is free software under GNU GPL. 
>http://www.pement.org/sed/minitrue.htm
>http://www.idiotsdelight.net/minitrue/
>
>Copy the files into "C:\MTR202B".
>Add "C:\MTR202B" to the PATH statement in AUTOEXEC.BAT
>Make a batch file "C:\FDOS\M2WAT.BAT" with the following content:
>
>
>@echo off
>rem This batch file extracts IP settings from MTCP.CFG and
>rem writes them into WATTCP.CFG.
>
>rem 1. Make a backup of WATTCP.CFG
>copy wattcp.cfg wattcp.bak
>
>rem 2. Preserve the settings in WATTCP.CFG
>copy wattcp.cfg wattcp.mtr
>
>rem 3. Delete the settings we need to get from MTCP.CFG
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^my_ip.*\n =
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^IP.*\n =
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^netmask.*\n =
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^gateway.*\n =
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^nameserver.*\n =
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^hostname.*\n =
>
>rem 4. Get the settings from MTCP.CFG
>copy mtcp.cfg wattcp.cfg
>
>rem 5. First comment out every line with a '#'
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg (^) = #
>
>rem 6. Now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if
>needed
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=
>
>rem 7. Remove all lines leftover from MTCP.CFG
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #.*\n =
>mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg # =
>
>rem 8. Append all the other settings from the original WATTCP.CFG
>type wattcp.mtr >> wattcp.cfg
>
>rem 9. Clean up.
>del wattcp.mtr
>
>
>
>Now you can insert a line
>C:\FDOS\M2WAT.BAT 
>after the line
>DHCP
>in AUTOEXEC.BAT.
>
>Conclusion: I can now use FreeDOS 1.1 as a VirtualBox guest with NAT
>networking and DHCP. I can FTP from host to guest by using Port
>Forwarding in VirtualBox. I don't have to be connected to a network
>anymore to exchange files between host and guest with FTP (see previous
>mail). mTCP and WATTCP applications work fine.
>
>I know the above solution is a bit ugly and can be improved. For
>instance it is not as elegant as DHCP.COM by David Dunfield, which
>inserts the network settings exactly into the places they had in the
>original WATTCP.CFG. So if anyone has more ideas, please come forward.
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

I think I found a solution.

The problem was: 

When I choose "NAT" as network type for a VirtualBox FreeDOS 1.1 guest, only 
mTCP DHCP.EXE is able to get the correct IP addresses from the DHCP server 
provided by VirtualBox. WATTCP applications fail to get their IPs from that 
DHCP server.

The idea: 
Let mTCPs DHCP.EXE get the correct settings and write them to C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG. 
Then extract them from MTCP.CFG and put them as fixed network settings into 
C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG. 

Dave pointed me to Minitrue and provided a batch file. So I experimented a bit 
and made some additions:
- no lines from MTCP.CFG are leftover in WATTCP.CFG
- all other settings in WATTCP.CFG stay intact and are not modified.

Prerequisites
Get Minitrue 2.02 which is free software under GNU GPL. 
http://www.pement.org/sed/minitrue.htm
http://www.idiotsdelight.net/minitrue/

Copy the files into "C:\MTR202B".
Add "C:\MTR202B" to the PATH statement in AUTOEXEC.BAT
Make a batch file "C:\FDOS\M2WAT.BAT" with the following content:


@echo off
rem This batch file extracts IP settings from MTCP.CFG and
rem writes them into WATTCP.CFG.

rem 1. Make a backup of WATTCP.CFG
copy wattcp.cfg wattcp.bak

rem 2. Preserve the settings in WATTCP.CFG
copy wattcp.cfg wattcp.mtr

rem 3. Delete the settings we need to get from MTCP.CFG
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^my_ip.*\n =
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^IP.*\n =
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^netmask.*\n =
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^gateway.*\n =
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^nameserver.*\n =
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.mtr ^hostname.*\n =

rem 4. Get the settings from MTCP.CFG
copy mtcp.cfg wattcp.cfg

rem 5. First comment out every line with a '#'
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg (^) = #

rem 6. Now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if needed
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=

rem 7. Remove all lines leftover from MTCP.CFG
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #.*\n =
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg # =

rem 8. Append all the other settings from the original WATTCP.CFG
type wattcp.mtr >> wattcp.cfg

rem 9. Clean up.
del wattcp.mtr



Now you can insert a line
C:\FDOS\M2WAT.BAT 
after the line
DHCP
in AUTOEXEC.BAT.

Conclusion: I can now use FreeDOS 1.1 as a VirtualBox guest with NAT networking 
and DHCP. I can FTP from host to guest by using Port Forwarding in VirtualBox. 
I don't have to be connected to a network anymore to exchange files between 
host and guest with FTP (see previous mail). mTCP and WATTCP applications work 
fine.

I know the above solution is a bit ugly and can be improved. For instance it is 
not as elegant as DHCP.COM by David Dunfield, which inserts the network 
settings exactly into the places they had in the original WATTCP.CFG. So if 
anyone has more ideas, please come forward.

Thanks!




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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Hi,

thanks for pointing me to minitrue. Last year I learned to use "sed" in linux 
and minitrue seems to be comparable. It's also great to see that this is free 
software under GNU GPL. Maybe this should be included in the util repo of 
FreeDOS? It seems to be very useful and it is also well documented. AND it has 
a great name, for those who read "1984" :-)

BTW: The homepage is here:
http://www.pement.org/sed/minitrue.htm

while the download is hosted at:
http://www.idiotsdelight.net/minitrue/

While minitrue certainly does the job for most users, I am not sure if this is 
the best way to get the settings from MTCP.CFG into WATTCP.CFG:

- when copying over MTCP.CFG to WATTCP.CFG, lines for telnet, ircjr etc. also 
go into WATTCP.CFG. They are commented out, but it's kind of strange. But of 
course it's only one more minitrue command necessary to delete them in 
WATTCP.CFG, so this is not a big deal.

- WATTCP.CFG can be used for much more than for configuring the network. See: 
http://lazybrowndog.net/freedos/wattcp.txt for an original version of 
WATTCP.CFG. This means all other settings in the original WATTCP.CFG should 
stay intact. This seems a bit harder to achieve with minitrue.

DHCP.COM by David Dunfield on the other hand can change the relevant WATTCP.CFG 
settings and leave everything else untouched.

DHCP.COM can be downloaded from the homepage, Mike pointed at:

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/index.htm

(You have to scroll down to the network section.)

DHCP.COM is a replacement for DHCP.EXE from the mTCP collection. As the mTCP 
apps are useful and in the path, either you have to call DHCP.COM with the full 
name or delete or rename DHCP.EXE.

DHCP.COM did not work for me, if it isn't in the same directory as WATTCP.CFG. 

While with mTCP, it uses the environment variable in AUTOEXEC.BAT: 
SET MTCPCFG=C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG

But the environment setting for WATTCP.CFG in AUTOEXEC.BAT
SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\FDOS
is ignored by DHCP.COM.

Using the full path like
DHCP.COM /W=C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG
didn't work either.

So the right place for DHCP.COM is C:\FDOS\DHCP.COM.

It is also necessary to call DHCP.COM twice: 
DHCP.COM /M=MTCP.CFG /W=WATTCP.CFG 
doesn't work.

So I put these two lines in AUTEXEC.BAT

C:\FDOS\DHCP.COM /M=MTCP.CFG
C:\FDOS\DHCP.COM /W=WATTCP.CFG

and everything works fine. The appropriate lines in WATTCP.CFG are replaced. 
Everything else stays intact.
Other than with minitrue, backups are not made.

Unfortunately there is no license file included with DHCP.COM and the homepage 
says nothing about it. This means it can't be distributed with FreeDOS or other 
projects.

So far this review - thanks again for pointing me to these programs.

Ulrich



> Am 27.08.2014 um 15:41 schrieb cordat...@aol.com:
> 
>> For those who want a DIY conversion of MTCP DHCP to WATTCP, you can do this:
>> 
>> 
>> Step 1: Install minitrue on your PC.  mt.exe ... google it. (I think it's 
>> "idiotsdelight.net" or something)
>> 
>> Step 2:  Create a batch file called "M2WAT.BAT"
>> 
>> Put this stuff in the batch file:
>> 
>> @echo off
>> rem convert MTCP config file to WATTCP format
>> copy mtcp.cfg wattcp.cfg
>> rem first comment out every line with a '#'
>> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg (^) = #
>> rem now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if needed
>> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
>> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
>> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
>> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
>> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=
>> 
>> 
>> Step 3 Run it after MTCP DHCP.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Michael Brutman 
>> To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 
>> 
>> Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 10:53 am
>> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP
>> 
>> 
>> David Dunfield has a utility called DHCP that will work with both mTCP 
>> and WATTCP.  I've not tried it, but David is well known in 
>> vintage-computer circles and his software is supposed to be pretty good.
>> 
>> http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/index.htm
>> 
>> 
>> Mike
>> 

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Anton D . Kachalov]

Hello, Tom.

Previously, we use ODI stack (Novell) with NIC autodetection (net.bat):

https://github.com/ya-mouse/dos-net-odi/

It is already contains a few drivers. It's easy to add more.

I hope iPXE would have packet's driver support soon.

29.08.2014, 14:58, "Tom Ehlert" :
>>  We use undipd driver:
>>  http://www.shikadi.net/network/files/undi2pd/undipd.com
>
> this is great - if and only if booted from PXE.
>
> Tom
>>  It is widely tested on the newest hardware: notebooks, desktops and servers.
>>  28.08.2014, 23:14, "Rugxulo" :
>>>  Hi,
>>>
>>>  On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
   Might be that the DHCP implementation of VirtualBox is incompatible with
   the DHCP client embedded in Watt32... A PCAP capture might show more,
   although not sure if there is any point, since watt32 probably won't be
   updated/fixed any time soon.
>>>  I'm not really in the loop, but I don't think this is quite true. It's
>>>  not nearly as dire as it seems, though I admit that DOS overall is
>>>  always low on volunteers.
>>>
>>>  Here's the new webpage for Watt-32:
>>>
>>>  http://www.watt-32.net/
>>>
>>>  The latest DJGPP (binary) build of it is here (otherwise you also have
>>>  to manually rebuild something for correct error numbers with 2.04, I
>>>  forget):
>>>
>>>  http://na.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/djgpp/beta/v2tk/wat3222br3.zip
>>>
>>>  And there were some posts (on news://comp.os.msdos.djgpp) a few months
>>>  ago from the author saying he still supports it. Of course, most of
>>>  his focus these days is Windows (MinGW, etc). But you could probably
>>>  email him directly if really desperate.
>>>
>>>  
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>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards
> Tom Ehlert
> +49-241-79886
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Tom Ehlert]

> We use undipd driver:

> http://www.shikadi.net/network/files/undi2pd/undipd.com

this is great - if and only if booted from PXE.

Tom

> It is widely tested on the newest hardware: notebooks, desktops and servers.


> 28.08.2014, 23:14, "Rugxulo" :
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
>>>  Might be that the DHCP implementation of VirtualBox is incompatible with
>>>  the DHCP client embedded in Watt32... A PCAP capture might show more,
>>>  although not sure if there is any point, since watt32 probably won't be
>>>  updated/fixed any time soon.
>>
>> I'm not really in the loop, but I don't think this is quite true. It's
>> not nearly as dire as it seems, though I admit that DOS overall is
>> always low on volunteers.
>>
>> Here's the new webpage for Watt-32:
>>
>> http://www.watt-32.net/
>>
>> The latest DJGPP (binary) build of it is here (otherwise you also have
>> to manually rebuild something for correct error numbers with 2.04, I
>> forget):
>>
>> http://na.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/djgpp/beta/v2tk/wat3222br3.zip
>>
>> And there were some posts (on news://comp.os.msdos.djgpp) a few months
>> ago from the author saying he still supports it. Of course, most of
>> his focus these days is Windows (MinGW, etc). But you could probably
>> email him directly if really desperate.
>>
>> --
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>> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards
Tom Ehlert
+49-241-79886


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Anton D . Kachalov]

Hello.

We use OpenWatcom compiled version of Watt32:

https://github.com/ya-mouse/dos-utils

This repo contains watt32-version of curl also.

We use undipd driver:

http://www.shikadi.net/network/files/undi2pd/undipd.com

It is widely tested on the newest hardware: notebooks, desktops and servers.


28.08.2014, 23:14, "Rugxulo" :
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
>>  Might be that the DHCP implementation of VirtualBox is incompatible with
>>  the DHCP client embedded in Watt32... A PCAP capture might show more,
>>  although not sure if there is any point, since watt32 probably won't be
>>  updated/fixed any time soon.
>
> I'm not really in the loop, but I don't think this is quite true. It's
> not nearly as dire as it seems, though I admit that DOS overall is
> always low on volunteers.
>
> Here's the new webpage for Watt-32:
>
> http://www.watt-32.net/
>
> The latest DJGPP (binary) build of it is here (otherwise you also have
> to manually rebuild something for correct error numbers with 2.04, I
> forget):
>
> http://na.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/djgpp/beta/v2tk/wat3222br3.zip
>
> And there were some posts (on news://comp.os.msdos.djgpp) a few months
> ago from the author saying he still supports it. Of course, most of
> his focus these days is Windows (MinGW, etc). But you could probably
> email him directly if really desperate.
>
> --
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
>
> Might be that the DHCP implementation of VirtualBox is incompatible with
> the DHCP client embedded in Watt32... A PCAP capture might show more,
> although not sure if there is any point, since watt32 probably won't be
> updated/fixed any time soon.

I'm not really in the loop, but I don't think this is quite true. It's
not nearly as dire as it seems, though I admit that DOS overall is
always low on volunteers.

Here's the new webpage for Watt-32:

http://www.watt-32.net/

The latest DJGPP (binary) build of it is here (otherwise you also have
to manually rebuild something for correct error numbers with 2.04, I
forget):

http://na.mirror.garr.it/mirrors/djgpp/beta/v2tk/wat3222br3.zip

And there were some posts (on news://comp.os.msdos.djgpp) a few months
ago from the author saying he still supports it. Of course, most of
his focus these days is Windows (MinGW, etc). But you could probably
email him directly if really desperate.

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Thanks a lot Dave and Michael for your answers, which are VERY helpful. I will 
have time to try and compare the two solutions on the weekend. Looking forward 
to it. Thanks again!
Ulrich

Am 27.08.2014 um 15:41 schrieb cordat...@aol.com:

> For those who want a DIY conversion of MTCP DHCP to WATTCP, you can do this:
> 
> 
> Step 1: Install minitrue on your PC.  mt.exe ... google it. (I think it's 
> "idiotsdelight.net" or something)
> 
> Step 2:  Create a batch file called "M2WAT.BAT"
> 
> Put this stuff in the batch file:
> 
> @echo off
> rem convert MTCP config file to WATTCP format
> copy mtcp.cfg wattcp.cfg
> rem first comment out every line with a '#'
> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg (^) = #
> rem now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if needed
> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
> mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=
> 
> 
> Step 3 Run it after MTCP DHCP.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Brutman 
> To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 
> 
> Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 10:53 am
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP
> 
> 
> David Dunfield has a utility called DHCP that will work with both mTCP 
> and WATTCP.  I've not tried it, but David is well known in 
> vintage-computer circles and his software is supposed to be pretty good.
> 
> http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/index.htm
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[cordata02]

For those who want a DIY conversion of MTCP DHCP to WATTCP, you can do this:


Step 1: Install minitrue on your PC.  mt.exe ... google it. (I think it's 
"idiotsdelight.net" or something)

Step 2:  Create a batch file called "M2WAT.BAT"

Put this stuff in the batch file:

@echo off
rem convert MTCP config file to WATTCP format
copy mtcp.cfg wattcp.cfg
rem first comment out every line with a '#'
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg (^) = #
rem now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if needed
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=


Step 3 Run it after MTCP DHCP.

 
Dave

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Michael Brutman 
To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. 

Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 10:53 am
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP



David Dunfield has a utility called DHCP that will work with both mTCP 
and WATTCP.  I've not tried it, but David is well known in 
vintage-computer circles and his software is supposed to be pretty good.

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/index.htm


Mike


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Michael Brutman]

David Dunfield has a utility called DHCP that will work with both mTCP 
and WATTCP.  I've not tried it, but David is well known in 
vintage-computer circles and his software is supposed to be pretty good.

http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/index.htm


Mike


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[cordata02]

 

 

>mTCP vs wattcp.cfg - I agree this would be awesome if mTCP could read/write 
>>WatTCP config files for backward compatibility :)

Step 1: Install minitrue on your PC.  mt.exe ... google it.
Step 2:  Create a batch file called "M2WAT.BAT"

Put this stuff in the batch file:

@echo off
rem convert MTCP config file to WATTCP format
copy mtcp.cfg wattcp.cfg
rem first comment out every line with a '#'
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg (^) = #
rem now uncomment the ones we want, add equal sign and change if needed
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #ipaddr = my_ip=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #netmask = netmask=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #gateway = gateway=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #nameserver = nameserver=
mt -b- -c -n wattcp.cfg #hostname = hostname=


Run it.


 
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi,

Might be that the DHCP implementation of VirtualBox is incompatible with 
the DHCP client embedded in Watt32... A PCAP capture might show more, 
although not sure if there is any point, since watt32 probably won't be 
updated/fixed any time soon.

About some programs needing a fixed IP: yes, this is true, but only for 
WatTCP (ie. 16 bit) programs. WatTCP doesn't have any DHCP client. This 
came only with Watt32.

mTCP vs wattcp.cfg - I agree this would be awesome if mTCP could 
read/write WatTCP config files for backward compatibility :)

cheers,
Mateusz



On 08/26/2014 05:32 AM, Ulrich wrote:
>
> Am 22.08.2014 um 00:47 schrieb Ulrich :
>
>> As the guest is connected through NAT, he can also do network operations 
>> like "FDNPKG update".
>
> I just tried that and "FDNPKG update" still doesn't work. This seems to be 
> caused by WATTCP. WATTCP.CFG has the line
>
> my_ip = DHCP
>
> so it should get the settings from VirtualBox DHCP sever - but it doesn't. 
> With VirtualBox "Bridged Adapter" FDNPKG gets its settings from the routers 
> DHCP server and works. With "NAT" it doesn't get them from the VirtualBox 
> DHCP server and complains about failed downloads. This is not a FDNPKG bug: 
> WGET also says "Configuring through DHCP..failed". While DHCP.exe and the 
> mTCP programs work fine.
>
> After setting the IPs manually in C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG it worked. Wouldn't it 
> be helpful if there was a little tool, that runs after DHCP.EXE and 
> translates the settings from MTCP.CFG into WATTCP.CFG? Or maybe an option to 
> DHCP.EXE that makes it change WATTCP.CFG as well?
>
> If I remember correctly some WATTCP programs need fixed IPs anyway.
>
> Ulrich
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Am 22.08.2014 um 00:47 schrieb Ulrich :

> As the guest is connected through NAT, he can also do network operations like 
> "FDNPKG update". 

I just tried that and "FDNPKG update" still doesn't work. This seems to be 
caused by WATTCP. WATTCP.CFG has the line

my_ip = DHCP

so it should get the settings from VirtualBox DHCP sever - but it doesn't. With 
VirtualBox "Bridged Adapter" FDNPKG gets its settings from the routers DHCP 
server and works. With "NAT" it doesn't get them from the VirtualBox DHCP 
server and complains about failed downloads. This is not a FDNPKG bug: WGET 
also says "Configuring through DHCP..failed". While DHCP.exe and the mTCP 
programs work fine.

After setting the IPs manually in C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG it worked. Wouldn't it be 
helpful if there was a little tool, that runs after DHCP.EXE and translates the 
settings from MTCP.CFG into WATTCP.CFG? Or maybe an option to DHCP.EXE that 
makes it change WATTCP.CFG as well? 

If I remember correctly some WATTCP programs need fixed IPs anyway.

Ulrich
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Mateusz Viste]

>Just use passive mode
>connections 
>and you'll be fine.

It's exactly the other way around ;)
Ulrich has its server behind a masquerading PAT, not the client. So ACTIVE mode 
is what should work, IF its ftp client is smart enough to ignore the IP 
presented by the server in the control channel (or if vbox provides some FTP 
hack on its NAT implementation, but this I have much doubts about)

cheers,
Mateusz
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Am 21.08.2014 um 22:47 schrieb Michael B. Brutman :

> I am a little late in responding; moving an entire house of belongings 
> and children is not fun.

Wow, best wishes! We are looking for a new house at the moment, so this is 
something that might happen to our family too, sooner or later.

> Mateusz provided a good explanation - it is "active" vs. "passive" mode 
> connections.  

Reading your explanation just encouraged me to work on this again - and this 
time I succeeded:
Switching from the default "passive" mode to "active" did the trick for me.

I just tried this successfully with Filezilla, Cyberduck and ForkLift.

My configuration:

In Oracle VM VirtualBox Manager I click on the FreeDOS guest VM.
In the guest configuration on the right side I open "Network". 
In the field "Attached to" I choose "NAT".
I open "Advanced".
I click on "Port Forwarding"
I add a new rule by clicking on the "+" sign
My settings:
Name: guestftp
Protocol: TCP
Host IP:
Host Port: 2121
Guest IP:
Guest Port: 21
(Host IP and Guest IP are left blank).

Alternatively, if you prefer the terminal, use the command
VBoxManage modifyvm "nameoftheguest" --natpf1 "guestftp,tcp,,2121,,21"
(This forwards all TCP traffic from the host port 2121 to the guest port 21.)

In FreeDOS, AUTOEXEC.BAT runs DHCP.EXE at boot. With VirtualBox NAT this works 
fine, so this will update C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG to have the following lines at the 
end:

IPADDR 10.0.2.15
NETMASK 255.255.255.0
GATEWAY 10.0.2.2
NAMESERVER 192.168.1.1
LEASE_TIME 86400

This is correct, 192.168.1.1 is my router, 10.0.2.2 is the virtual adapter that 
VirtualBox creates.

C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG also defines the password file for FTP users in this line:
ftpsrv_password_file c:\fdos\ftppass.txt

My  C:\FDOS\FTPPASS.TXT has only one line:

user password /drive_c/share  [any]   all

So the "user" with the password "password" can access the directory C:\SHARE.

Filezilla Configuration:

In FIlezilla I open the Site Manager,
I select the entry for the FreeDOS FTP settings
In the tab "General" these are my settings:
Host: 127.0.0.1
Port: 2121
Protocol: FTP
Encryption: Use Plain FTP
Logon: Normal
User: your username as defined in mTCP C:\FDOS\FTPPASS.TXT
Password: your password as defined in mTCP C:\FDOS\FTPPASS.TXT

Then I open the tab "Transfer Settings" and set the "Transfer Mode" to "Active".

I can now successfully transfer files between the FreeDOS guest and my host. As 
the guest is connected through NAT, he can also do network operations like 
FDNPKG update. That the FreeDOS guest can only be accessed from the outside 
through Port Forwarding is perhaps more secure than using the "Bridged Adapter" 
mode (But on the other hand, DOS is not a networking OS anyway so it won't 
answer to portscans etc..).

Last but not least the Filezilla Log:

Status: Connecting to 127.0.0.1:2121...
Status: Connection established, waiting for welcome message...
Response:   220 mTCP FTP Server
Command:USER user
Response:   331 User OK, send Password
Command:PASS 
Response:   230 User logged in
Status: Server does not support non-ASCII characters.
Status: Connected
Status: Retrieving directory listing...
Command:PWD
Response:   257 "/" is current directory
Command:TYPE I
Response:   200 Type set to I
Command:PORT 127,0,0,1,220,17
Response:   200 PORT command successful
Command:LIST
Response:   150 Sending file list
Response:   226 Transfer complete
Status: Directory listing successful

> I'm not sure what is wrong with the VirtualBox host only mode.  It is 
> not working for me here either.

Yes, I only got this working with a fixed IP (see my previous mail).  The 
VirtualBox DHCP server isn't recognized here. 

But I am really glad now, NAT is working and allows a host-guest connection 
through port forwarding. AFAIK this might be what most VirtualBox users want 
anyway..

Ulrich




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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Michael B. Brutman]

I am a little late in responding; moving an entire house of belongings 
and children is not fun.

Mateusz provided a good explanation - it is "active" vs. "passive" mode 
connections.  Back 15 years ago before NAT was in widespread use all FTP 
connections were "active."  The client would initiate a connection to 
the server for sending commands.  If data needed to be sent the server 
would initiate the connection to the client.  And in the very very old 
days, specific port numbers were assumed.

NAT completely screws this up by acting as a "diode", allowing new 
connections to pass through in one direction but not in the other. So 
your FTP client can make the control connection to the server, but the 
server can not make a connection back to the client because of NAT.  
Directory listings require a new socket, so this breaks even simple 
commands.

There are two ways around this.  Most firewalls that implement NAT do 
some basic packet inspection and detect this particular FTP problem, and 
correct for it.  So even though NAT dictates that the FTP server should 
not be able to make an inbound TCP connection to your client behind the 
firewall, the firewall actively does some work to allow this.  It has to 
inspect packets to do this, and it only works with the well-known FTP 
port (21).  If you choose a non-standard FTP control port to work with, 
it breaks.

The second is to use "passive" connections.  When in passive mode, the 
client always initiates new socket connections, even for data 
transfers.  If your client can make the control connection then it can 
also make the data connection.

The FTP protocol is really very powerful.  It allows you to direct data 
transfers between multiple machines, if you can coordinate them.  It was 
too complex for it's own good though.  Just use passive mode connections 
and you'll be fine.

I'm not sure what is wrong with the VirtualBox host only mode.  It is 
not working for me here either.


Mike

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Ulrich]

Hi Mateusz,

Am 20.08.2014 um 08:23 schrieb Mateusz Viste :

> If your client is behind NAT, the ACTIVE mode will not work without 
> special hacks, because the server won't be able to reach the client.
> If your server is behind NAT, then it's PASSIVE mode that won't work, 
> because your server will announce its private IP to the client, and even 
> if you force it to announce its correct (public) IP, it still won't work 
> because you'd need a redirection on your NAT box to handle data ports 
> (and this is tricky as well, since the port can be anything - you'd have 
> to force your server to use only a specific pool of ports, and redirect 
> them all...)
> 

Thanks a lot! This sounds conclusive. I was really struggling to make this work 
last night.


> The "bridge" configuration is IMHO the best, since it provides you a 
> full connectivity, just like for a real machine in your network. But if, 
> for any reason, you are scared that FreeDOS will hack your home router, 
> then "HOSTONLY" is definitely the answer.
> 
> Now, why does the VirtualBox DHCP fail in HOSTONLY mode, this I don't 
> know. I can only guess there is some kind of special vbox configuration 
> that will allow you to choose where you want to set up the vbox DHCP 
> server for listening.

This can be done with the VirtualBox GUI (the main program, not the guest), 
just go to Settings - Network - Host-only Network. Or you use the VBoxManage 
command and do something like this:

VBoxManage dhcpserver modify --ifname vboxnet0 --ip 192.168.56.2 --netmask 
255.255.255.0 --lowerip 192.168.56.101 --upperip 192.168.56.120 --enable

Unfortunately the DHCP server is not recognized neither by the mTCP dhcp client 
nor by the WATTCP programs.

But:

I got the host-only mode working! By using fixed IPs in MTCP.CFG.

In "Settings" - "Network" - "Host-only Network" I edit (the screwdriver icon) 
vboxnet0 to have the values:

IPv4 address: 192.168.56.1
Netmask: 255.255.255.0

(These are the default settings for host-only mode)

My C:\FDOS\WATTCP.CFG looks like this:

my_ip = 192.168.56.10
netmask = 255.255.255.0
gateway = 192.168.56.1
nameserver = 192.168.56.1
domain_list = your.domain.com

Then I can just connect with Filezilla to 192.168.56.10. Here is the view under 
the hood:

Status: Connecting to 192.168.56.10:21...
Status: Connection established, waiting for welcome message...
Response:   220 mTCP FTP Server
Command:USER user
Response:   331 User OK, send Password
Command:PASS 
Response:   230 User logged in
Command:SYST
Response:   215 UNIX Type: L8
Command:FEAT
Response:   211-mTCP FTP server features:
Response:MDTM
Response:SIZE 
Response:   211 End
Status: Server does not support non-ASCII characters.
Status: Connected
Status: Retrieving directory listing...
Command:PWD
Response:   257 "/" is current directory
Command:TYPE I
Response:   200 Type set to I
Command:PASV
Response:   227 Entering Passive Mode (192,168,56,10,9,181)
Command:LIST
Response:   150 Sending file list
Response:   226 Transfer complete
Status: Calculating timezone offset of server...
Command:MDTM INSERTS.TXT
Response:   213 20140820150442
Status: Timezone offsets: Server: -14400 seconds. Local: 7200 seconds. 
Difference: 21600 seconds.
Status: Directory listing successful

So this works. I do not need to have a real network connection. I can just run 
FreeDOS as VirtualBox guest on my MacBook and connect to it with Filezilla or 
any other FTP-client, no matter if I am in my LAN, in a train or at work.

So that's great.

Thanks again!
Ulrich


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox and FTP

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi,

FTP is a nasty protocol, that never should have existed in the first 
place... But once it's done, it's impossible to get rid of it, 
unfortunatly. The problem is that FTP is an out-of-band protocol, 
meaning it separates data and control in two different channels (aka 
connections). There are several modes of operation, where the two most 
known are ACTIVE and PASSIVE.

ACTIVE: your server receives a PORT request, and then it tries to 
establish a new connection back to the client, to send data

PASSIVE: your client sends a PASV request to the server, and then the 
server answers by providing an IP and a port to which the client has to 
establish a second (data) connection.

When it comes to NAT, everything brakes. Vendors implements hacks of 
various kinds into theor products to jump over hoops with FTP vs NAT...
If your client is behind NAT, the ACTIVE mode will not work without 
special hacks, because the server won't be able to reach the client.
If your server is behind NAT, then it's PASSIVE mode that won't work, 
because your server will announce its private IP to the client, and even 
if you force it to announce its correct (public) IP, it still won't work 
because you'd need a redirection on your NAT box to handle data ports 
(and this is tricky as well, since the port can be anything - you'd have 
to force your server to use only a specific pool of ports, and redirect 
them all...)

Short answer: What you need is simply a FTP connectivity between two 
local hosts, so the easy solution is simply to skip NAT, since you don't 
need it in the first place.

The "bridge" configuration is IMHO the best, since it provides you a 
full connectivity, just like for a real machine in your network. But if, 
for any reason, you are scared that FreeDOS will hack your home router, 
then "HOSTONLY" is definitely the answer.

Now, why does the VirtualBox DHCP fail in HOSTONLY mode, this I don't 
know. I can only guess there is some kind of special vbox configuration 
that will allow you to choose where you want to set up the vbox DHCP 
server for listening.

If you're really stuck with vbox NAT, then find a way to set up your FTP 
client so it always uses ACTIVE mode (most clients allow such 
configuration, FileZilla provides such settings for sure). This will 
work, because in your specific configuration, it's the server that's 
behind NAT, so the client can't establish the secondary connection by 
itself. On top of this, you might need to configure the mTCP FTP server 
to announce its public IP, unless your client is smart enough to ignore 
the RFC and connect back to the server's IP, as used for the control 
channel.

cheers,
Mateusz





On 08/20/2014 01:44 AM, Ulrich wrote:
> Hi
>
> I just tested a bit more what is possible with DOS networking and VirtualBox.
>
> I always wondered why I need to choose "Bridged Adapter" in the guest network 
> settings to establish a FTP connection between host and guest. Because that 
> means the connection needs the physical router in my LAN.
>
> It should be possible to make a connection between the host and the FreeDOS 
> guest only locally, even when I am not connected to a physical network.
>
> Normally this is possible by choosing "NAT" in the guest network settings. 
> Then you need to activate port forwarding. Either in the GUI, choosing the 
> guest, choosing "Network" - "Advanced" - "Port Forwarding". Or by using the 
> terminal and commanding:
>
> VBoxManage modifyvm "nameoftheguest" --natpf1 "guestftp,tcp,,2121,,21"
> (This forwards all TCP traffic from the host port 2121 to the guest port 21.)
>
> If I do this, the following happens:
> FreeDOS 1.1 boots and the network is up.
> mTCP dhcp gets network address 10.0.2.15
> I start mTCP ftpsrv
> I connect with Mac OSX terminal ftp client.
> I login.
> Then, when I try to list the directory, there is a timeout of 1 minute and 17 
> seconds. After that it tells me "PORT command successful" and everything 
> seems to work. Here the log.
>
> ftp> open 127.0.0.1 2121
> Connected to 127.0.0.1.
> 220 mTCP FTP Server
> Name (127.0.0.1:uhansen): user
> 331 User OK, send Password
> Password:
> 230 User logged in
> Remote system type is UNIX.
> Using binary mode to transfer files.
> ftp> ls
> 227 Entering Passive Mode (10,0,2,15,8,82)
> ftp: Can't connect to `10.0.2.15': Operation timed out
> 200 PORT command successful
> 150 Sending file list
> drwxrwxrwx 1 ftp ftp  0 Dec 28  1980 DRIVE_C
>
> Is it possible, the client is trying to connect to 10.0.2.15 instead of 
> 127.0.0.1 2121 ?
>
> But from there on everything seems to work.
>
> Unfortunately I had no success with Filezilla and Forklift (my favorite 
> filemanager on the Mac).
>
> If I connect with Filezilla and try to list the directory I get: "425 Cant 
> open connection - please try again".
> Then the connection is closed.
>
> Status:   Verbinde mit 127.0.0.1:2121...
> Status:   Verbindung hergestellt, warte auf Willkommensnachricht...
> Antwort:   

Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox

[john s wolter]

Cheers,
John S Wolter


> Dunno about the future. Honestly, most people probably would just
> throw it all away instead of trying hard to emulate it (which is
> tricky). If it's something they don't use (or sell or support), they
> don't care.   :-(
>

I'm more upbeat about this.  They could have already thrown away the
hardware but have not.  I had about six requests starting in January.
 Usually it sounds like this, "...say I have this DOS program which I've
used for years.  It does what I need.  Can you just get it running?".  Of
course I can.

Some even have source code which uses a compiler which I still have.   If
used by just a few people porting it as an update is not cost effective.
 DOS forever, I hope.

BTW some portions of U.S. Federal Aviation Authority's air traffic control
software from the 1960s & 70s ran on unique computers.  During the later
1980s it was found to be more efficient to emulate those old computers and
keep running that old software on newer and very different computers.

You can expect his behavior to continue.

>
> >> I know I sound like a broken record, but having VT-X enabled (if
> >> possible, esp. nested page tables or whatever) is the only best setup
> >> I know of.
> >
> > I'll see if that isn't already set to on, A.K.A "enabled". (An
> anti-jargon
> > statement :-)
>
> It's much much slower without VT-X. Quite painful, honestly.
>

Tried VT-X on my development laptop and it was just the same.  I have an i5
with dual graphics cards, normal & high performance 3D.  I directed
VirtualBox to use the normal.  The DOS program is has a character based
display.

> The other obvious test is how FreeDOS performs on the likes of Amazon's
> EC2.
>
> Would maybe be interesting, but I have no idea how to try something like
> that.
>

EC2 as well as Google Application Engine(not for FreeDOS) is on my list but
not for a month.

I have customers that need to have all resources online as they can't
maintain computers.  They never make backups and then expect I can raise
their computers from the dead.  I think I'll establish a $600 walking-dead
and no promise rebuild service for Laptops.

Cheers,
John S Wolter
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:32 PM, john s wolter
 wrote:
>
>> It's never going to be full speed nor perfect emulation.
>
> I'm aware an application running on FreeDOS inside of VirtualBox has to be
> much slower.  That said, understand the future of most legacy operating
> systems that ran on older hardware will be inside virtual machines.

Dunno about the future. Honestly, most people probably would just
throw it all away instead of trying hard to emulate it (which is
tricky). If it's something they don't use (or sell or support), they
don't care.   :-(

>> I know I sound like a broken record, but having VT-X enabled (if
>> possible, esp. nested page tables or whatever) is the only best setup
>> I know of.
>
> I'll see if that isn't already set to on, A.K.A "enabled". (An anti-jargon
> statement :-)

It's much much slower without VT-X. Quite painful, honestly.

>> Probably best to try some (official or unofficial) benchmark, e.g.
>> Dhrystone, doom -timedemo demo3 (for 1.9 shareware), or just timing
>> some random cmdline program (runtime ..., esp. archiver or compressor)
>> or DJGPP compile of something (redir -t gcc ...).
>>
>> I guess it depends on what you're trying to test (FPU, gfx, etc).
>
> Since M$-Windozes 7 seems to resist DOS program setup, I can't benchmark
> them outside VirtualBox.  The programs I have are all character based
> display, that is not using bit-mapped graphics. Usually some compiled dbase
> program with 10 to 20 open files.

That's fine too. I was just saying there are various ways to benchmark
in general. Simple integer performance is probably less buggy than
other parts.

>> Most of the issues are x86 emulation, then BIOS, then peripherals
>> (mouse, keyboard, CD, etc).
>
> Then for VirtualBox the test is the x86 machine level emulation.  How does
> FreeDOS perform directly on hardware vs how it performs inside VirtualBox.

Install to bootable USB via RUFUS, and test there. Then test under
VBox and compare times.

> The other obvious test is how FreeDOS performs on the likes of Amazon's EC2.

Would maybe be interesting, but I have no idea how to try something like that.

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox

[john s wolter]

Rugxulo,

It's never going to be full speed nor perfect emulation. It's too
> tricky to emulate everything (esp. pmode). Anything to do with
> segmentation is probably lower priority (due to complexity and
> deprecation) than the bare minimum (686-ish pmode) that *nix and
> Windows require.
>

I'm aware an application running on FreeDOS inside of VirtualBox has to be
much slower.  That said, understand the future of most legacy operating
systems that ran on older hardware will be inside virtual machines.  I see
that as making FreeDOS and DOS applications immortal.  Moving to the Cloud
will make applications running on FreeDOS available on smartphones if they
aren't already.

Therefore getting to know these virtual products inside computers and in
the Cloud will be a good idea.


> I know I sound like a broken record, but having VT-X enabled (if
> possible, esp. nested page tables or whatever) is the only best setup
> I know of.
>

I'll see if that isn't already set to on, A.K.A "enabled". (An anti-jargon
statement :-)


> Probably best to try some (official or unofficial) benchmark, e.g.
> Dhrystone, doom -timedemo demo3 (for 1.9 shareware), or just timing
> some random cmdline program (runtime ..., esp. archiver or compressor)
> or DJGPP compile of something (redir -t gcc ...).
>
> I guess it depends on what you're trying to test (FPU, gfx, etc).
>

Since M$-Windozes 7 seems to resist DOS program setup, I can't benchmark
them outside VirtualBox.  The programs I have are all character based
display, that is not using bit-mapped graphics. Usually some compiled dbase
program with 10 to 20 open files.


> > Second, what steps should be taken to walk through application
> performance
> > issues within FreeDOS?  Is there a sequence that would narrow issues to
> > solutions?
>
> Not that I know of. You'd have to debug VirtualBox itself (or maybe it
> can optionally have a built-in debugger like some other emulators??
> dunno ...).
>
> Most of the issues are x86 emulation, then BIOS, then peripherals
> (mouse, keyboard, CD, etc).
>

Then for VirtualBox the test is the x86 machine level emulation.  How does
FreeDOS perform directly on hardware vs how it performs inside VirtualBox.

The other obvious test is how FreeDOS performs on the likes of Amazon's
EC2.

Cheers,
John S Wolter

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 11:11 AM, john s wolter
 wrote:
>
> I've been using VirtualBox in Windows 7 on a Sony Vaio Duo Core /w 4
> gigabytes of RAM. VirtualBox's load times are okay but the execution of
> MS-DOS & a particular character-display application program is usable very
> but slow.

It's never going to be full speed nor perfect emulation. It's too
tricky to emulate everything (esp. pmode). Anything to do with
segmentation is probably lower priority (due to complexity and
deprecation) than the bare minimum (686-ish pmode) that *nix and
Windows require.

> Understanding this issue is best approached by examining VirtualBox and
> FreeDOS separately from the application.
>
> Is there a known good setup for VirtualBox and FreeDOS that demonstrates
> good performance?

I know I sound like a broken record, but having VT-X enabled (if
possible, esp. nested page tables or whatever) is the only best setup
I know of.

> Inside this question is how to measure the performance of
> VirtualBox and then DOS other than just by it feels okay.

Probably best to try some (official or unofficial) benchmark, e.g.
Dhrystone, doom -timedemo demo3 (for 1.9 shareware), or just timing
some random cmdline program (runtime ..., esp. archiver or compressor)
or DJGPP compile of something (redir -t gcc ...).

I guess it depends on what you're trying to test (FPU, gfx, etc).

> Second, what steps should be taken to walk through application performance
> issues within FreeDOS?  Is there a sequence that would narrow issues to
> solutions?

Not that I know of. You'd have to debug VirtualBox itself (or maybe it
can optionally have a built-in debugger like some other emulators??
dunno ...).

Most of the issues are x86 emulation, then BIOS, then peripherals
(mouse, keyboard, CD, etc).

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox

[john s wolter]

I've been using VirtualBox in Windows 7 on a Sony Vaio Duo Core /w 4
gigabytes of RAM. VirtualBox's load times are okay but the execution of
MS-DOS & a particular character-display application program is usable very
but slow.

Understanding this issue is best approached by examining VirtualBox and
FreeDOS separately from the application.

Is there a known good setup for VirtualBox and FreeDOS that demonstrates
good performance?  Inside this question is how to measure the performance
of VirtualBox and then DOS other than just by it feels okay.

Second, what steps should be taken to walk through application performance
issues within FreeDOS?  Is there a sequence that would narrow issues to
solutions?

Cheers,
John S Wolter

LinkedIn: johnswolter 

johnswol...@wolterworks.com
USA, Eastern Standard Time, -5 GMT, -4 GMT DST



On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Mark Brown  wrote:

> The UIDE bug in VirtualBox that took ~2 minutes to load
> has been fixed now...
>
> Am now running FreeDOS easily,
> so others can do the same,
> and VirtualBox is free!
>
> Yay!
>
>
> 
> eufdp...@yahoo.com
> eufdp...@yahoo.com
> eufdp...@yahoo.com
> eufdp...@yahoo.com
> eufdp...@yahoo.com
> 
>
>
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> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox FreeDOS HowTo

[Jim Hall]

>> I have started a VirtualBox HowTo in our FreeDOS wiki.
>> It is a sort of installation walkthrough with many pictures.
>>
>> It can be found here:
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/freedos/index.php?title=Installing_FreeDOS_in_VirtualBox

> That looks great, you've done an awesome job at posting such a detailed
> guide. I'm so happy I kept things simple for now so not that many issues
> will arise.
[...]
> Thanks for your guide, I hope Jim will link it from the download page.


I finally added this to the Download page. It looks great, thanks!

-jh

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox FreeDOS HowTo

[Bernd Blaauw]

Op 11-1-2012 0:58, Ulrich Hansen schreef:
> I have started a VirtualBox HowTo in our FreeDOS wiki.
> It is a sort of installation walkthrough with many pictures.
>
> It can be found here:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/freedos/index.php?title=Installing_FreeDOS_in_VirtualBox

That looks great, you've done an awesome job at posting such a detailed 
guide. I'm so happy I kept things simple for now so not that many issues 
will arise.

The more complex binary test release is something which I'll integrate 
in a next FreeDOS 1.2 release. Some issues were found there, some fixing 
is needed. Most likely TDSK related.

Thanks for your guide, I hope Jim will link it from the download page.

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Larry]

It is a bit slow for high end graphics apps.

I use Freedos in dosemu mostly. I thought that vmware might give me more 
consistent (with DOS) I/O capability.  Not sure about that yet.



--- On Mon, 6/23/08, Alain M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Alain M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles
> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 8:42 AM
> Larry escreveu:
> > I run freedos in vmware.
> 
> I use it sometimes. The only problem is that graphics mode
> is 
> vry slow.
> 
> Alain
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Giorgos]

> 
> Interesting!
> What version exactly are you using? I tried CTMOUSE v2.1 beta and it 
> definetely doesn't work. Then I switched to the version 1.9 final, and it 
> works like a charm :-)
> 

Hi! :-)

I'm using ctmouse v2.0a4 (from sf.net project dl page).
I tried also the latest updates that Eric made available, but I haven't 
thoroughly tested them. (I'm a laaazy tester)! :-)

I'm going to test also the virtualization options that Jim and Eric 
suggested! :-)

Greets!!! :-)
Giorgos.

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Alain M.]

Larry escreveu:
> I run freedos in vmware.

I use it sometimes. The only problem is that graphics mode is 
vry slow.

Alain


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Eric Auer]

Hi Japheth,

> Both problems with the keyboard and the mouse are known and were
> already posted in this list. However, the posts were related to Qemu
> ... Since VirtualBox is - to a large degree - a clone of Qemu...

> There exist workarounds. The Ctmouse problem can be cured by using
> a certain cmdline switch.

The one to disable the wheel detection I guess? Because
Mateusz wrote that 1.9 works while 2.1 (and maybe 2.0?)
does not work and produces unwanted cursor movements.

> The keyboard problem can possibly be solved if you use another
> keyboard driver which doesn't install an IRQ 1 handler but hooks
> int 15h instead (I wrote one for German keyboards...

Tom Ehlert wrote a driver called MKEYB which is, as far as
I remember, int 15h based and supports at least 10 common
keyboard layouts, all compiled in. A small driver, too :-).

Eric

PS: I prefer Dosemu (fast!) anyway, but better Bochs and Qemu
and Virtualbox compatibility is always something to check for.


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Jim Hall]

On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Mateusz Viste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks!
>
> I'm trying to get rid of my "DOS Machine" (I have a PC which I use only for 
> FreeDOS) by moving all my FreeDOS files to a VirtualBox machine on my Linux 
> computer.
> Unfortunately, I'm experiencing some troubles...
>[...]
> Has anybody tried to run FreeDOS in such environment? What kind of troubles 
> d'you got? Have you resolved any? How?
>

I have run FreeDOS inside VirtualBox on Linux (Fedora 8 & 9) and
didn't have the problems you mentioned. But I was just experimenting
with it, not doing anything "real".

When I boot FreeDOS inside Linux, I prefer to use DOSEmu. It's a very
nice, lightweight DOS environment that works very well for running
FreeDOS. I even run games there!! I've never had any problems with
DOSEmu. And DOSEmu makes it very easy to access your Linux home
directory by setting up your home as your DOSEmu "D" drive.

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Japheth]

Both problems with the keyboard and the mouse are known and were already 
posted in this list. However, the posts were related to Qemu, not VirtualBox. 
Since VirtualBox is - to a large degree - a clone of Qemu, the issues occur 
with this virtualizer as well.

There exist workarounds. The Ctmouse problem can be cured by using a certain 
cmdline switch. The keyboard problem can possibly be solved if you use another 
keyboard driver which doesn't install an IRQ 1 handler but hooks int 15h 
instead (I wrote one for German keyboards, but I guess it's useless for you).

Mateusz Viste wrote:
> On Saturday 21 June 2008, Giorgos wrote:
>> Personally speaking, I switched to vbox (from vmware server).
>> I didn't had so far, any ctmouse2 conflicts.
> 
> Interesting!
> What version exactly are you using? I tried CTMOUSE v2.1 beta and it 
> definetely doesn't work. Then I switched to the version 1.9 final, and it 
> works like a charm :-)
> 
>> Although with vbox I'm experiencing some keyboard glitches from time to time,
> 
> Ah, that's like me :-)
> Most of the time the keyboard is working fine, but with some applications 
> (like Necromancer's DOS Navigator), any extended keys (F1-F12, arrows, 
> insert, home...) are pressed twice when I push them (eg. when I press the 
> "down" arrow, NDN is going down two position). What's strange: I doesn't have 
> the problem when using keys on the numeric pad.
> 
>> I like it because its less resource demanding at my system than vm server.
> 
> I had very positive feedback when running various flavor of Windows in it, as 
> there wasn't any speed loss.
> Unfortunately it is not the case of FreeDOS - I can't even play Wolfenstein 
> 3D on my P4 2.4GHz...
> 
> Regards,
> Mateusz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Mateusz Viste]

On Saturday 21 June 2008, Giorgos wrote:
> Personally speaking, I switched to vbox (from vmware server).
> I didn't had so far, any ctmouse2 conflicts.

Interesting!
What version exactly are you using? I tried CTMOUSE v2.1 beta and it definetely 
doesn't work. Then I switched to the version 1.9 final, and it works like a 
charm :-)

> Although with vbox I'm experiencing some keyboard glitches from time to time,

Ah, that's like me :-)
Most of the time the keyboard is working fine, but with some applications (like 
Necromancer's DOS Navigator), any extended keys (F1-F12, arrows, insert, 
home...) are pressed twice when I push them (eg. when I press the "down" arrow, 
NDN is going down two position). What's strange: I doesn't have the problem 
when using keys on the numeric pad.

> I like it because its less resource demanding at my system than vm server.

I had very positive feedback when running various flavor of Windows in it, as 
there wasn't any speed loss.
Unfortunately it is not the case of FreeDOS - I can't even play Wolfenstein 3D 
on my P4 2.4GHz...

Regards,
Mateusz
-- 
You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://mateusz.viste.free.fr/pub_key


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Giorgos]

> 
> Has anybody tried to run FreeDOS in such environment? What kind of troubles 
> d'you got? Have you resolved any? How?
> 
> bye!
> Mateusz Viste

Hi Mateusz! :-)

Personally speaking, I switched to vbox (from vmware server).
I didn't had so far, any ctmouse2 conflicts.
Although with vbox I'm experiencing some keyboard glitches from time to 
time, I like it because its less resource demanding at my system than vm 
server.

If some application demands heavy graphics and no special configuration 
(a nice game perhaps?) :-) , I'm running dosbox.
Although it has better emulation support for graphics, I think its much 
heavier than vbox and lucks many config options for general use.
I'm rebooting to a real freedos environment, only when needed (eg. for 
working with partitions, as a linux alternative).

Greets!!!
Giorgos. :-)

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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Larry]

I tried the mouse (after install ctmouse) in my freedos vmware install. It 
seemed to work fine, as well as did the cursor keys.

I've heard that virtualbox might take a bit more tuning that vmware, so I bet 
you'll get it to work fine if you play with it.


--- On Sat, 6/21/08, Mateusz Viste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Mateusz Viste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles
> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 9:26 AM
> Hi folks!
> 
> I'm trying to get rid of my "DOS Machine" (I
> have a PC which I use only for FreeDOS) by moving all my
> FreeDOS files to a VirtualBox machine on my Linux computer.
> Unfortunately, I'm experiencing some troubles...
> 
> First of all, JemmEx weren't able to use XMS memory. I
> resolved it by using the latest version, it works okay now.
> The keyboard isn't working like I would expect.
> It's okay for typing commands, but the arrow keys
> aren't working at all.
> The mouse is crazy: when I load ctmouse, it detects a mouse
> on PS2 bus, but it is unusable - goes very quickly from the
> left upper corner to left bottom corner of the screen (I
> didn't tested it in graphic mode yet).
> 
> I have still several tests to do (various graphic modes,
> sound emulation, network...), but I need a fully working
> keyboard/mouse for that...
> 
> Has anybody tried to run FreeDOS in such environment? What
> kind of troubles d'you got? Have you resolved any? How?
> 
> bye!
> Mateusz Viste
> -- 
> You'll find my public OpenPGP key at
> http://mateusz.viste.free.fr/pub_key-
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user


  


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Re: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles

[Larry]

I run freedos in vmware. I've not tried it in virtualbox.  I'm running mostly 
small apps, a forth compiler I wrote, the Microsoft Quick Pascal compiler, the 
Microsoft Quick C compiler.

No keyboard problems I'm aware of. I'm not sure I've tried the mouse. Let me 
give it a whirl.




--- On Sat, 6/21/08, Mateusz Viste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Mateusz Viste <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Freedos-user] VirtualBox troubles
> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 9:26 AM
> Hi folks!
> 
> I'm trying to get rid of my "DOS Machine" (I
> have a PC which I use only for FreeDOS) by moving all my
> FreeDOS files to a VirtualBox machine on my Linux computer.
> Unfortunately, I'm experiencing some troubles...
> 
> First of all, JemmEx weren't able to use XMS memory. I
> resolved it by using the latest version, it works okay now.
> The keyboard isn't working like I would expect.
> It's okay for typing commands, but the arrow keys
> aren't working at all.
> The mouse is crazy: when I load ctmouse, it detects a mouse
> on PS2 bus, but it is unusable - goes very quickly from the
> left upper corner to left bottom corner of the screen (I
> didn't tested it in graphic mode yet).
> 
> I have still several tests to do (various graphic modes,
> sound emulation, network...), but I need a fully working
> keyboard/mouse for that...
> 
> Has anybody tried to run FreeDOS in such environment? What
> kind of troubles d'you got? Have you resolved any? How?
> 
> bye!
> Mateusz Viste
> -- 
> You'll find my public OpenPGP key at
> http://mateusz.viste.free.fr/pub_key-
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user


  


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