Re: [Audyssey] Favour

[Trouble]

You have to watch witch extension you use. Because, if use the wrong 
one it may get sent in binary instead of ascii. its best to zip up 
and then send. All versions of xp have this capability.

At 04:02 AM 7/30/2006, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Try to change the file extention to .jpg. So simply rename your file from
>whatever.exe to whatever.jpg. Then sent it through email or IM and then
>rename the file back to whatever.exe.
>
>This will often work.
>
>Greets,
>
>Richard
>
>http://www.audiogames.net
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Maria visiting her folks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
>Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Favour
>
>
> > HI.  get himm to try zipping the file it should go through to you.
> >
> > hth
> >
> > Maria
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "ari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:13 PM
> > Subject: [Audyssey] Favour
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> I'd please like to know if someone on the list can help us out here.
> > Damien
> >> wants to send me the text editor, but his Microsoft Outlook won't handle
> >> .exe files. He has suggested that, with Skype or MSN, he can send me the
> >> file directly. My problem is that I'm an absolute beginner with both
> >> programs, having only just installed Skype (but not as yet having read
> >> the
> >> manual, and for some reason I am still having problems with the
> >> connection
> >> from my Mike to my PC, so I don't have a clue how to chat, let alone how
> > to
> >> do a file transfer), and I don't have, or am fimiliar with, MSN either.
> >> Could Damien Skype or MSN the file to someone who could then email it to
> > me,
> >> or could someone suggest another way of file delivery?
> >> Thanks
> >> Ari
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> > visit
> >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make
> >> any subscription changes via the web.
> >
> >
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> > visit
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> > any subscription changes via the web.
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] Text based games

[Trouble]

Some dos games may be built to slow for todays boxes. For example Jim 
Kitchen's dos football game. On a 386 running under a 1 gig chip. The 
game runs good, but on a p4 the timing was off. Instead of getting 15 
minute quarters you got around 5 or just a bit more. he addressed 
that issue with his self voicing football game and ported it to windows.

At 01:59 PM 7/29/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Trouble!
>
> Oh, the other thing I forgot to mention is when I think of a double boot
>I am thinking of partitioning  the drive in 2 parts.  For example partition
>A would have windows, and windows based games and partition B would have dos
>and dos games on it.  I think that wold work with no problem unless the
>speed of the computers today are too fast for dos.  I don't know the
>specifics of dos.
>
>Blessings!
>
>
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Trouble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
>Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:23 AM
>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Text based games
>
>
> > Sure, because those ops i mentioned are the only ones that use dos as
> > a op with windows as a shell.
> > With xp, 2000 and up dos is emulated, and windows is no longer a shell.
> >
> > At 11:43 PM 7/26/2006, you wrote:
> > >Hi Trouble!
> > >
> > > That interesting.  Do you know why that is?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >- Original Message -
> > >From: "Trouble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:18 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Text based games
> > >
> > >
> > > > You can only boot to dos if your not running xp or 2000. Have to have
> > > > either win95, 98 or me.
> > > >
> > > > At 09:43 PM 7/25/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >Hi Ari!
> > > > >
> > > > > You probably will not want to do this, but you can set up your
> > >computer
> > > > >for a double boot.  That means that yu can boot up in windows or dos.
> > >When
> > > > >the computer starts it would ask which you want.  Did you try using
>the
> > >exit
> > > > >command when you ran command.com to play a dos game then type in exit
>to
> > > > >return to windows?
> > > > >
> > > > >Regards!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >- Original Message -
> > > > >From: "ari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> > > > >Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:19 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Text based games
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Jim,
> > > > > > Is their a way, like in older windows, to restart in MS Dos mode?
>If
> > >their
> > > > > > is, I could do that and install Jaws For Dos, then whenever I want
>to
> > >play
> > > > >a
> > > > > > game, I could just start in DOS with Jaws For Dos? Is what I am
> > >thinking
> > > > > > possible, can a person start in dos mode with Jaws for dos, never
> > >really
> > > > > > used dos so I really don't know these things. I have a double talk
> > > > > > synthesizer. Also, when a person is in plain dos, how do I install
> > >Jaws or
> > > > > > any other dos program? Is their a tutorial for dos somewhere which
> > > > >explains
> > > > > > to people how to install, run, delete, copy, etc? Did screen
>reader
> > > > > > companies or someone ever release a tape tutorial for dos like
>they do
> > >to
> > > > > > get people familiar with windows, or, since it's a text-based
>system,
> > >I'm
> > > > > > guessing you could use dos tutorials written for sighted people as
> > >well,
> > > > >but
> > > > > > where to find? Also, if I use Jaws for dos, will it also read like
> > >this in
> > > > >a
> > > > > > game:
> > > > > > || welcom||
> > > > > > |||this is your first day|||
> > > > > > That is really frustrating, I don't know if their is a way it can
>skip
> > >all
> > > > > > the |.
> > > > > 

Re: [Audyssey] Text based games

[Trouble]

You have to look at the properties of your drive. if its formatted in 
ntfs. Then those old versions of dos are dead. They do have a version 
that runs in that mode, but the speech programs won't.
If the drive is all ntfs. You will have to redo the box with a 32bit 
partition for dos and then put xp back on the box. So it can set up 
the dual boot options. Once you ntfs a drive its not ease to get it 
back to 32 bit unless you wipe the whole drive and start over.

At 01:12 PM 7/29/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Trouble!
>
> If a persone used dos 6.0, 7.0 , not the dos that comes with windows ,
>but just a dos program the computer should be able to boot up in dos.  Then
>a person could run dos games or other dos programs. I still have dos 5 and
>maybe six. At the computer speeds today I am assuming that is true, but I
>don't know that for sure since I haven't tried that since my 486 computer
>days.
>
>Blessings!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Trouble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
>Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:23 AM
>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Text based games
>
>
> > Sure, because those ops i mentioned are the only ones that use dos as
> > a op with windows as a shell.
> > With xp, 2000 and up dos is emulated, and windows is no longer a shell.
> >
> > At 11:43 PM 7/26/2006, you wrote:
> > >Hi Trouble!
> > >
> > > That interesting.  Do you know why that is?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >- Original Message -
> > >From: "Trouble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 5:18 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Text based games
> > >
> > >
> > > > You can only boot to dos if your not running xp or 2000. Have to have
> > > > either win95, 98 or me.
> > > >
> > > > At 09:43 PM 7/25/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >Hi Ari!
> > > > >
> > > > > You probably will not want to do this, but you can set up your
> > >computer
> > > > >for a double boot.  That means that yu can boot up in windows or dos.
> > >When
> > > > >the computer starts it would ask which you want.  Did you try using
>the
> > >exit
> > > > >command when you ran command.com to play a dos game then type in exit
>to
> > > > >return to windows?
> > > > >
> > > > >Regards!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >- Original Message -
> > > > >From: "ari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> > > > >Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 10:19 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Text based games
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Jim,
> > > > > > Is their a way, like in older windows, to restart in MS Dos mode?
>If
> > >their
> > > > > > is, I could do that and install Jaws For Dos, then whenever I want
>to
> > >play
> > > > >a
> > > > > > game, I could just start in DOS with Jaws For Dos? Is what I am
> > >thinking
> > > > > > possible, can a person start in dos mode with Jaws for dos, never
> > >really
> > > > > > used dos so I really don't know these things. I have a double talk
> > > > > > synthesizer. Also, when a person is in plain dos, how do I install
> > >Jaws or
> > > > > > any other dos program? Is their a tutorial for dos somewhere which
> > > > >explains
> > > > > > to people how to install, run, delete, copy, etc? Did screen
>reader
> > > > > > companies or someone ever release a tape tutorial for dos like
>they do
> > >to
> > > > > > get people familiar with windows, or, since it's a text-based
>system,
> > >I'm
> > > > > > guessing you could use dos tutorials written for sighted people as
> > >well,
> > > > >but
> > > > > > where to find? Also, if I use Jaws for dos, will it also read like
> > >this in
> > > > >a
> > > > > > game:
> > > > > > || welcom||
> > > > > > |||this is your first day|||
> > > > > > That is really frustrating, I don&#

Re: [Audyssey] Dos games

[Trouble]

In jaws version the option to read a dos window are there but 
commented out. You would have to go into the default.jcf file, and 
look for dos prompt. Then take out the */ and /* at the end of 
comment. Then it will read like versions out now.

At 12:51 PM 8/16/2006, you wrote:
>The difference is that JFW 4, I think you have to route the cursors to read
>the window, and sometimes their'd for some reason be pauses before jaws
>reads the line. With 6, jaws automatically reads the dos box.
>By the way, I'm sorry for the delay, I'll set up the league tomorrow, it's
>just that I've been bombed with a surprised test!
>Ari
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] Possible future for STFC.

[Trouble]

Like the idea. Just don't over work yourself doing it, and if move in 
this direction. People should realize that a release would take a 
wile. Sorry about losing your code. Sometimes these things happen. so 
do the break, think on this new concept, and work on what you got for now.

At 05:13 AM 9/14/2006, you wrote:

>Hi listers,
>As all of you are now aware the original STFC source code is gone so I
>am going to have to rewrite the game from scratch or from near scratch
>no matter what I do. Over on the audyssey list Nicol was making a
>suggestion of making Trek 2000 real time. I'm wondering since I have to
>rewrite anyway how would you all feel if I just rewrote STFC as a real
>time game?
>If we stick with the same old turn based game it will be basicly the
>same only better than before.
>If we go to real time the game could be more like Lonewolf consisting of
>missions you would have to cary out against the Romulans, Breen,
>Klingons, Borg, Breen, etc...
>Since it is in real time you would have to play one ship and stick with
>it. However, I can imagine how fun it would to be say the Defiant and
>cloak and and attack various targets deep behind enemy lines, or you
>could be the Enterprise patroling the Romulan Neutral zone when you are
>jumped by the Romulans.
>What do you all think?
>
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] Campaign for the Cosmos game website

[Trouble]

This game ain't to hard to play, and is text based.

At 03:59 PM 9/24/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Gamers,
>I ran across an old listing the following game called "Campaign for the
>Cosmos - Online Empire Management Strategy Game"
>which can be found at:
>
>http://cftc.woodzy.com/
>
>Is there any one out there currently playing it?
>
>How accessible is it?
>
>Thanks for all the help.
>
>Rich
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Re: [Audyssey] Accessible online poker?

[Trouble]

The subscription fee for AllInPlay ain't for tournaments. Its for 
paying employees to program the game, run the server, and get on the 
web. As far as tournaments go either the players get one up, 
sponsored by private business, and sometimes AllInPlay throws one out 
there for fun.

At 04:06 AM 10/19/2006, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>all in play charges a subscription fee because it helps raise funds to hold
>tournaments, etc, and also helps in the development of new games.
>
>Kay
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "simon.dowling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:52 AM
>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible online poker?
>
>
> > hi I to would like to know of such a beast, as I like a flutter myself and
> > all the book makers over in the uk aint to keen on making there games
> > accessible.
> > which brings me to 2 points, 1 why do all in play charge a subscription
> > fee
> > for there game when you don't win nothing? in the way of real cash that
> > is!
> > 2. why jim kitchen doesn't put his poker program in to slot machines all
> > over the world, and the rest of his casino games, so blind peeps can
> > gamble
> > in public, he would make an absolute mint.
> > if you do jim, I'll be your manager!
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Christian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:56 PM
> > Subject: [Audyssey] Accessible online poker?
> >
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >> I posted this question some time ago, but I am just curious if someone
> >> has
> >> found any accessible online poker game except All inplay?
> >> Many thanks,
> >> Christian
> >>
> >>
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> >> any subscription changes via the web.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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> > any subscription changes via the web.
> >
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] Game programming education project.

[Trouble]

Good project to look forward to seeing. Sounds like it could help a 
lot get off the ground and bring gaming back to life.

At 04:19 PM 10/29/2006, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>In the interest of everyone who wants to begin learning how to program
>accessible games I will be launching the USA Games game programming
>education project. What I plan to do is write an accessible version of
>Asteroids complete with saving and restoring games, standard and arcade
>style play, sound, music, etc... Once written I will be able to post the
>full source code and release versions for download.
>The source version will eventually include documentation explaining the
>audio class and it's use with Microsoft DirectSound. Another tutorial
>might cover working with Visual Studio Express 2005, and another might
>discuss saving and restoring games, etc. I don't plan for all of this
>suddenly to appear, of course, but if I put some time to it each week
>those of you out there will not only have a free game, but one with a
>full source written in C#.NET which will give you something to look at
>and to practice your programming skills with.
>The main reason I have decided to do this is I would like the community
>at large to have not only accessible games, but high quality accessible
>games. Most new programmers don't know how to do that. For instance,
>most programming books won't tell you how to save and restore a game,
>and you have to compile the information from two or more sources, and
>understand serializing an object. With a sample right in front of you it
>becomes pretty clear how it is done without all the explanations how it
>works just that it does work. Which is what we all want.
>Not only that there is always some trig equations needed to calculate
>the distance between objects, directions, and updating there location.
>Well, naturally I will be including them, and I will keep things at the
>Algebra/Trig level and won't put to much on you newbies by making
>everything 3D with vectors, and all that.
>Anyway, if you guys think this will help the community add new
>programmers to the rank, and help you guys learn I will be happy to
>donate time in the future to this end ever.
>Smile.
>
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] Castle Quest was bavisoft's lack of customer service

[Trouble]

You say that the code for CQ was out sauced to another by BSC Games. 
Then by all copy right laws that code should of ben the property of 
BSC Games. They may want to look into that one. Because the same law 
goes for someone doing a project for any school. If for grade its 
there property not the creators.

At 07:37 AM 11/3/2006, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Snip
>  What I don't understan is why BSC couldn't siply have ditched the
>3rd party people they were working with and continued on with the project
>End Snip
>
>I've talked to Justin at length about this and the bottom line is the
>3rd party were pro game developers writing the engine for CQ for BSC
>Games. When the 3rd party developer ended up stopping work on CQ for BSC
>Games do to licensing the developer was able to keep the source code for
>the CQ project. That left BSC without a project, source code, and they
>basicly had nothing. To make CQ they would have to start from scratch.
>As a developer myself were I in Justin's position I wouldn't start over
>either. It was easier to scrap the project and start fresh with a new
>one rather than continue on from ground zero and start CQ over again
>from the drawing board.
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] GMA Tank Commander

[Trouble]

Go through the game intro again. Select purchase and it will give you 
a new code for the key. Then send it off to GMA games.

At 09:05 PM 11/16/2006, you wrote:
>Who do I contact to get another key?  I reformatted and don't have 
>my registration key.  Can someone write me offlist?
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Chris
>Thanks much!
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Re: [Audyssey] a question about shades of doom and turret guns

[Trouble]

Not sure if you can still catch Dr. Who on PBS, would have to check 
local guide for info, but it does come on the cifi channel ON 
Friday's here in the USA.

At 11:04 PM 11/24/2006, you wrote:
>Answer is none that I can remember, but Dr. Who hasn't been on TV here
>in the U.S.A. for years.  Although, you can buy many newer and older
>shows on dvd.
>"You must be exterminated! You must be exterminated. You must be
>exterminated!"
>
>
>Sean Mealin wrote:
> > I don't think daleks; when was the last time you did not hear a dalek
> > chant"exter-minate"?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of shaun everiss
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:11 PM
> > To: Gamers Discussion list
> > Cc: 'Gamers Discussion list'
> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a question about shades of doom and turret guns
> >
> > I'd associate those bots with cybermen as they sound sort of like that.
> > Or dalecs, all they wanted to do was destroy, these things just want to
> > exterminate so whats the difference.
> > At 11:55 AM 11/22/2006, Sean Mealin wrote:
> >
> >> When I think of the cyborgs, I think of cibermen from Doctor Who.
> >> Or, maybe Borg from Star Trek, but with out the O-C-A syndrome.
> >> (Obsessive, Compulsive Assimilation syndrome.)
> >>
> >> Sean
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >> Behalf Of Thomas Ward
> >> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 10:33 PM
> >> To: Gamers Discussion list
> >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a question about shades of doom and turret guns
> >>
> >> Hi Kim,
> >> Well as for the turret guns it was a military research base so naturally
> >> it is apped to be well defended. I imagine them as some sort of defence
> >> system that like everything else went out of control when the base
> >> experiment failed.
> >> As for the temperal disturbance it doesn't have to be all that large.
> >> They are rifts in space time. Imagine it sort of as a pitch black  sworl
> >> that vaperises you when you come in contact with it.
> >> The insane scientists are likely human size since they were lab
> >> specialists before they were mentally effected and driven insane.
> >> The boss is interesting. I kind of give him a demonic kind of
> >> appearence. Kind of tall, strongly built, zombie-like looking, bright
> >> glowing eyes, and able to vanish like a ghost.
> >> The blob is probably based on the m blob movies. Typically, it is an
> >> alien organic ooz with inteligence that writhes and bubbles. In the
> >> movies I have seen they are able to shrink up to very small balls, and
> >> expand to fill entire rooms.
> >> The cyborgs are half human so they likely have the basic human size and
> >> shape, but with allot of crome appendages, laser cannons, wires, and
> >> hozes hooked to them.
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org
> >> To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can
> >>
> > visit
> >
> >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make
> >> any subscription changes via the web.
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >> any subscription changes via the web.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [Audyssey] just venting about people and JD trophies

[Trouble]

Maybe the download they got was corrupted in downloading. I would 
download it again and try again.

At 06:40 PM 12/15/2006, you wrote:
>The most frustrating thing is having a problem like this and having no ideas
>why it doesn't work.  It makes me sad cause I hate having a situation where
>someone can't playt he game they paid for.
>
>
>
>
>Liam Erven
>KC9KHY
>
>msn and Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>homepage: http://www.liamerven.com
>
>-Original Message-
>From: MissWings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 5:34 PM
>To: Gamers Discussion list; Gamers Discussion list
>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] just venting about people and JD trophies
>
>I'm looking forward to playing this game ... hopefully Liam can get it
>working for me before I have to leave on Sunday going home for Christmas for
>a couple of weeks.  I haven't gone through all of my messages yet so maybe
>he's sent me something giving me some ideas.  It's frustrating having a
>registered version and not being able to play it!  But I know he's working
>as fast as he can so I'm not complaining.  Smile.  Have fun gaming
>everybody!  Maybe I'll be able to contribute soon.
>
>MissWings
>
>At 07:29 PM 12/14/2006, Thomas Ward wrote:
>
> >Hi Raul,
> >Yeah, I find when I put the GTC or SOD cheats in usually it ruins the
> >experience. What fun is it if I can kill without being seen or if the
> >monsters can't kill you anyway.
> >Although, I do like the fact SOD has the cheat code unlock feature. You
> >must reach at least 2 points before obtaining the codes.
> >I'm on the fence when it comes to adding cheats for my own games. They
> >are easy enough to add, but I'd like to have some sort of unlock
> >feature if I did where they would have to beat the game once to get
> >them, or everytime he/she beat the game they got one cheat code.
> >
> >
> >
> >Raul A. Gallegos wrote:
> > > No, I had not but laughed when I read it after sending my message.
> > >
> > > While it's true that many companies for mainstream games provide
> > > cheat books and codes I still feel it takes away from the learning
> > > aspect of the game.
> > >
> >
> >
> >___
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> >
> >
> >--
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> >Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.19/587 - Release Date:
> >12/14/2006
>
>
>--
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>
>
>
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Tim
trouble
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance."
--Sam Brown

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Re: [Audyssey] heloween game

[Trouble]

That is why you don't say what is coming out. You just do it and if 
it comes out on your deadline, ok, if not than no one pushing for it.


At 01:35 AM 10/30/2011, you wrote:

Hi,

Yeah, I know. That's the down side to having a business like this.
Audio game development isn't the kind of business where the developer
can stick to a specific schedule, meet deadlines, and work a regular 9
to 5 job because itsa side venture. Plus at this time of year there
are plenty of other things going on the developer will miss out on
while spending time working on a game.

For example, the last two/three days have been jammed packed with
things to do, places to go, and people to see. There are halloween
parties, trick or treat, ghost walks, and there are events in town all
weekend long. Not to mention various Halloween movies on TV. So if I
spent that time game programming I'd miss out on the enjoyment of what
the rest of my family is doing. So balancing time to work on game x
and have a life outside of work isn't always possible.

Cheers!


On 10/29/11, william lomas  wrote:
> that's why best not even say it be out then and just have not told anyone
> and released it when out

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Re: [Audyssey] Recording PC sound output for things like podcasts/demo's etc. on windows7

[Trouble]

Ok, you have it right and using the right chose. You can also get to 
that option in control panel, sounds.
Now that you have the record side setup. You have to set the card 
doing the recording also to be the card doing the playing of the 
sounds you want. That is why you have no sound recorded. Make both 
the default and you should get your sound recorded. Now if you pick 
the card you want in jaws and the other card for default sounds. You 
won't get jaws in the recording.


At 06:42 PM 11/10/2011, you wrote:
OK, while I could just use an external microphone/device to record 
my computer's audio output, including surrounding sounds, maybe me 
talking etc., etc., while using my current primary windows7 ultimate 
64 bit primary machine, on machines like windows XP, it seemed you 
could easily enough, sometimes use either a sort of virtual audio 
recording device called stereo mix, or one called what you hear, and 
then using something like either audacity, or 2 other recording apps 
have gotten hold of - see below - record just the computers actual 
audio output, including screenreader voices,  a bit more cleanly.


Anyway, on this windows7 64 bit machine, I had to firstly go and 
make the stereo mix recording device show up, since it sort of gets 
hidden by windows7 itself - in start menu search box, I type in:

sound card

and then hit enter on "change sound card settings".

Then in that dialogue box, I ctrl + tab to recording page, and in 
list of recording devices, it only showed microphone and audio line 
in - and this is linked to my PC's realtek sound card.


When I then invoked a right mouse click on that list, using the jaws 
cursor, on the context menu item there's a menu item saying 
something like show disabled devices, and then I could find a stereo 
mix device listing, and if I invoked it's properties, I could in 
fact enable it, make changes to it's volume levels, etc. etc.


However, even if I make it the default device - also from that 
dialogue, or specifically choose to use it in either audacity, or 
the 2 apps listed below, the sound files do have a file size, and a 
recorded time length, but are just silent..?


Most guys who've done something similar to this on windowsXP 
machines reckon the device would normally be called something like 
what you hear, but anyway - was just wondering if anyone had any 
ideas related to a feasible workaround for this type of issue, 
asides from actually recording the PC's output using an external 
device/unit/microphone placed in front of speakers, since it might 
be nice to be able to record demo's/tutorial material related to 
some things like this, without having to first connect external 
units/cables, etc. etc.


Lastly, those two bits of  software found/tracked down that let you 
sort of record directly to MP3 files - in theory anyway - and which 
while not perfectly accessible, are still relatively usable are the 
2 following ones:


Free MP3 sound recorder
http://www.nbxsoft.com/download-sound-recorder.php

Digital audio recorder
http://www.asoftwareplus.com/

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'
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Re: [Audyssey] correspondence

[Trouble]

If it was a jaws video intercept problem. Then jaws wouldn't work at 
all and state a video intercept not installed.


At 11:15 AM 11/16/2011, you wrote:

Hi.
I think you have a JAWS video intercept problem. Are you on Alter 
Aeon or skype?


Sent with Thunderbird 3.1.14 portable.

On 11/16/2011 7:07 AM, Kim Friedman wrote:

Hi, I'd like to get messages from those who do role playing and/or
mudding because this is something I'd like to learn how to do and I am
having a quite difficult time even making the attempt to do so. For one
thing, my screen reader (Jaws 13) hasn't been working with the one MUD
client I have (VIP MUD) because if I use the arrow keys from within a
game, it's as if the screen is blank and there's nothing there even
though text may be on the screen. The MUD client also seems to
disconnect at the drop of a hat, so I feel as if I'm in Dickens'
circumlocution office (Reference, Little Dorrit by Charles Dickens, in
which the hapless person is going round in circles and backwards at the
same time, in short, going nowhere at all). It doesn't do any good to
tell me to try different Mud clients out as I have no idea how to
determine if I like them or not. (You're talking to the one who doesn't
know what to do with the Mud client she already has, let alone any
others which might be used by the blind.) As far as I know, there is
absolutely no literature on the subject for rank beginners like myself.
I can't seem to get beyond first base in playing an RPG because of this
MUD client problem. The text (if it does come) arrives in great clumps
and as I said, I can't even review what's there to make any decisions.
Please help me out as I am seriously frustrated about this whole
situation. Regards, Kim Friedman. P.S.: I'd like also to know if the
Iron Realms games are regarded as accessible (games are Achaea, Aetolia,
Lusternia, Emperion, and Midkemia [the last based on Raymond E. Feist's
novels).) K.


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Re: [Audyssey] FW: Can you help me out?

[Trouble]

That feature won't help your not dealing with a text in a image. But 
it does sound about right for the clueless!
Would un install and reinstall VIP mud. See what that does for you 
sounds like something is corrupt or setting messed up.


At 10:29 PM 11/17/2011, you wrote:

Hi, this is the reply I received when I wrote to Freedom Scientific with
regard to my problems between Jaws and VIP MUD. Below the reply is my
message to them. Now I'm not sure if the reply is correct or accurate
which is why I'm sending it to you. Let me make clear that I think he
was attempting to help me out, but I have a sneaky suspicion he doesn't
do any role playing nor does he use MUD clients. Regards, Kim Friedman.

-Original Message-
From: Freedom Scientific Support [mailto:supp...@freedomscientific.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:03 AM
To: kimfr...@verizon.net
Subject: FW: Can you help me out?




Dear Kim

Thank you for contacting Freedom Scientific technical Support. I'm not
familiar with this game software. However, I recommend using the
convenience OCR feature to see if it helps you in this window. Try
performing the
insert+spacebar followed by the letter o and then s for scanning the
insert+screen
or w for the window. At this point, you can use your arrow keys to
navigate the screen. As long as you don't press another key, you can
move to a desired section of the screen and press the NumPad / key to
click on a desired item. See if this help you with your game.



Be sure to include all previous correspondence pertaining to this matter
when replying to this message so that we might better assist you.

 Regards,
Mr. Tracey Jackson,
Technical Support Specialist
Freedom Scientific

Phone support: 727 803 8600, option #2
E-mail Support: supp...@freedomscientific.com

Visit our website at:
http://www.freedomscientific.com/


-Original Message-
From: Kim Friedman [mailto:kimfr...@verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:47 PM
To: Freedom Scientific Technical Support
Subject: Can you help me out?

Hi, first of all, thanks so much for resolving that ResearchIt issue. I
have been trying to use it while proofreading and when I typed in a word
found in the text and pressed enter, it was as if there was nothing
whatever in the window. Now knowing that there were no results helps a
lot. That being said, however, I have been having problems with Jaws
when using VIP MUD. When I go into a game, and I use the arrow keys, I
can't read any text. It's as if the screen is blank and I'm sure that
isn't the case. I think this problem has existed since Jaws 11 for me.
Is there any techie on the staff who likes to use MUDS and has Jaws 13
on his/her system and is acquainted with VIP MUD and other MUD clients?
I'm finding it quite frustrating when attempting role playing. I feel as
if I'm going nowhere. The whole weird thing is that my settings insofar
as I know is consistent with other users of VIP MUD yet the arrow keys
and the reading keys aren't functioning from within a game. Regards, Kim
Friedman.



-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4020 - Release Date: 11/16/11



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Re: [Audyssey] kitchensinc games - installation question

[Trouble]

Instead of hitting enter on that file. Use the application key or 
right click on it. Then you will see run as adman. after that the run 
option will come up and just run it. Keep doing that until you have 
all you want installed.


At 06:09 PM 11/22/2011, you wrote:

Hi all,
I decided I really wanna try out Jim's kitchensinc games! I think they
will be lots of fun. I have a question though. I am running Windows
Vista, and I installed the winkit folder and followed all the
instructions there. Now, I'm at the part where I have to find the
game/games I want and install them. It says that I need to go to the
name of the file/game, hit inter and then do a "run as administrator"
so that it will install propperly and I will be able to play. The only
problem, is I can't find the "run as adminastrator" option, so I'm not
sure how to make it work. Can y'all tell me what to do? /smiles/
Thanks,
Laurel and Stockard

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Re: [Audyssey] kitchensinc games - installation question

[Trouble]

The reason the install went to the correct directory is the program 
was coded for that one and windows was just following rules for 32bit programs.
The extra files are done through a zip file install that has a target 
of c:\program files. If you add the x86 to the path it has you will 
have the correct install path.


At 10:35 AM 11/23/2011, you wrote:

Hi Lenron,

Yes, I have been told that Windows 7 presents another little problem 
with installing my games.  The thing is, Windows 7 apparently has 
two program files areas and my winkit install goes to one and the 
rest of the games go to the other.  Below is a message that I read 
from a lady that explains it and tells how she fixed it.  I hope that it helps.


Hello all, I just found out something I hope will help you 
Sherry,  ok you no how in windows 7 we have two program file 
folders? One is just called program files, and the other is called 
program files x86, well here is what happen to me. I  installed the 
winkit program and it went into  just the program files x86 folder. 
And when I installed the games they went into  the folder. Called 
just program files. So  fined out which one is the winkit one and go 
to which of the program folders the computer put the games in and 
copy and paste them into the winkit one it works.


Like I found out winkit was in the program files x86 so I went to 
just program files and  copied the games from kitchensinc and put 
them in program files x86 kitchensinc and then I removed the one  in 
program files. Just deleted the folder.


Make sure you are in administrator

Hope that helps.

Susan

I hope that helps.
BFN

Jim

Kitchen's Inc, for games that are up to 110 percent funner to play.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] iPhone racing games that are accessible.

[Trouble]

Nope, that is one thing you can't get from Apple not for iPhone or 
mac. And the third party content is out of date.


At 08:54 AM 11/24/2011, you wrote:
Hi - Michael wanted to know if there are any IPhone racing games 
that are accessible.  Well, I don't have an iPhone so I don't know 
the answer to that one, but I'm sure you can get the answer on 
Apple's website that is specifically talking about apps that are 
blind-accessible.


The URL is:  http://www.applevis.com/

Eleanor Robinson

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Re: [Audyssey] I'm appalled!

[Trouble]

You know its kind of hard to market something to such a small 
audience and spread out community. There are so many email lists that 
is ridiculous. Every time you think you got it covered there pops up 
some one that gets mad and starts another email list the same as what 
they left. If you don't be leave me just go to Freelists.org
You will find a ton of blind lists and if you go to google or yahoo. 
You will find the same lists.
Don't even think about the org's, because they really don't care 
unless they get some change! By what has ben said the org's posted on 
there sites as games for us to play are not only for kids but think 
all blind are mind set kids.
This has come up in the mag years ago and the answer is still the 
same. They know out there of the games. i have seen lots of dead 
sites advertising these games. But when you have some many put games 
out and then change the dead sites don't. plus you have the fact that 
a while back there was a lot of problems with getting these games. 
people paid and got told shut up. Some get to little to spend and 
when stolen! They don't forget but do tell all they know.
i don't put that blame on the community, its the developer that made 
that problem. They put deadlines up that they don't meet. When they 
should be doing it like the pro's. When the game is done there it is, 
as dev put out and not as community nagged! Any changes are called 
next version just like any other software, but the community seems to 
dictate how that is to be done. So do the dev's actually run and own 
there companies? Just like sheep that think they have a mind when all 
along its the dog that states the law.


At 07:32 AM 11/26/2011, you wrote:

White stick blunkit was nothing more than a lapdog to his sighted employees.
He didn't do anything for disabled people in education if anything he made
it more difficult in the long run.

As for games and awareness, this is a topic that I've debated so many times
before.

I do think that it's primarily the responsibility of the developers to
promote their games. There's plenty of avinues out there like has been
pointed out before not including the rnib and such organizations.

Certainly for the online games that we have there's places like
topwebgames.com which I know charge but I don't think they're astronomically
pricy.

Sadly it's people by accident stumbling on these games and that in itself
isn't good enough. Even audyssey as a mag isn't doing the job it's meant to
do because 1 it hasn't been updated regularly in god knows how long and 2
even when it is it's not distributed widely.





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Re: [Audyssey] I'm appalled!

[Trouble]

Actually not so many now, but there are also not so many making games either.

At 09:39 AM 11/26/2011, you wrote:
Honestly, how many developers of games for the blind gamer can you 
think of that announce deadlines and don't come through on their 
promises or don't let gamers know what's up?  Unless I read your 
message wrong, you make it sound as though there are quite a few, 
which I don't think is the case.


---
"Security is not the absence of danger.  It is the presence of the Lord."

- Original Message - From: "Trouble" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] I'm appalled!


You know its kind of hard to market something to such a small 
audience and spread out community. There are so many email lists 
that is ridiculous. Every time you think you got it covered there 
pops up some one that gets mad and starts another email list the 
same as what they left. If you don't be leave me just go to Freelists.org
You will find a ton of blind lists and if you go to google or 
yahoo. You will find the same lists.
Don't even think about the org's, because they really don't care 
unless they get some change! By what has ben said the org's posted 
on there sites as games for us to play are not only for kids but 
think all blind are mind set kids.
This has come up in the mag years ago and the answer is still the 
same. They know out there of the games. i have seen lots of dead 
sites advertising these games. But when you have some many put 
games out and then change the dead sites don't. plus you have the 
fact that a while back there was a lot of problems with getting 
these games. people paid and got told shut up. Some get to little 
to spend and when stolen! They don't forget but do tell all they know.
i don't put that blame on the community, its the developer that 
made that problem. They put deadlines up that they don't meet. When 
they should be doing it like the pro's. When the game is done there 
it is, as dev put out and not as community nagged! Any changes are 
called next version just like any other software, but the community 
seems to dictate how that is to be done. So do the dev's actually 
run and own there companies? Just like sheep that think they have a 
mind when all along its the dog that states the law.


At 07:32 AM 11/26/2011, you wrote:

White stick blunkit was nothing more than a lapdog to his sighted employees.
He didn't do anything for disabled people in education if anything he made
it more difficult in the long run.

As for games and awareness, this is a topic that I've debated so many times
before.

I do think that it's primarily the responsibility of the developers to
promote their games. There's plenty of avinues out there like has been
pointed out before not including the rnib and such organizations.

Certainly for the online games that we have there's places like
topwebgames.com which I know charge but I don't think they're astronomically
pricy.

Sadly it's people by accident stumbling on these games and that in itself
isn't good enough. Even audyssey as a mag isn't doing the job it's meant to
do because 1 it hasn't been updated regularly in god knows how long and 2
even when it is it's not distributed widely.





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Re: [Audyssey] I'm appalled!

[Trouble]

Its called closed minds.

At 09:32 AM 11/26/2011, you wrote:

I'm afraid I don't agree Darren.

it is the stated purpose of organizations like the Rnib to generally 
serve and improve the lot of blind people. When a person newly goes 
blind, they aren't told "go off and find products that are 
advertized" they are introduced to the Rnib,  and if they are 
lucky, other organizations too, to provide information, training and 
access to useful products.


indeed recently in Britain the government has pretty much out 
sourced all! disability related administration to external agencies 
and charities.


While I am not generally in favour of the "blind community" aspect 
of things, ie, people believing there is some special characteristic 
about blind people that makes them sort of like a nationality with 
their own identity, there is stil a need to distribute and share 
information and useful techniques as their is with any group of 
people with a specific interest or vocation.


if you are interested in say for instance learning to play golf, 
yes, you can learn on your own, go on the net and buy your own clubs 
etc, but you'd be far better to join a golf club which will be able 
to put you in touch with golf related information, such as location 
of nearest links, where to buy clubs etc.


To carry on this golf analogy, the Rnib is like a golf club which 
only advertizes a set of 5 foot long irons on the basis that that is 
all that is available and all that their members should be expected 
to use on every course.


They are failing in their duty of information, and indeed in their 
duty of care to provide for all! blind people in the Uk.


For instance, the lady I trained with with my dog was a database 
designer before going blind four years previously and had been a big 
rpg fan. When she made enquiries about accessible games, she was 
told only about Azabat, and not even notified that others existed.


This is how the Rnib were failing in their function, sinse they were 
not providing correct information to her or indeed taking into 
account her preferences.


in fact to borrow an arguement from my thesis, the Rnib were failing 
to acknolidge that for her, the "disability" of having a visual 
imparement included a frustration of her desire to play rpg games, 
and thus the Rnib were compounding the disability, rather than as 
their charter would suggest aiding it.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updatedLone Wolf

[Trouble]

As far as change. You have to have it or stuff don't get done. People 
get lazy doing the same old stuff, and when something comes out that 
makes something better to use or at least lets us use it in a normal 
fashion. Progress moves even faster. We use to have to wait until the 
first or second upgrade to a op before we got to have speech on it.
The main reason it took a long time to get out of text is mainly the 
cost of computers and speech was not all that good.
Once more sighted people started buying computers the blind had it 
made, because that forced a push to make them useful. Now a big 
portion of the blind community has computers. More talk back and 
forth and no one has to wait for letters that never come or are out 
of date when gotten.
I remember when apple came out with the first talking computer. It 
was so basic, but didn't do a thing for the blind as much as it does 
now. If I had the computers I have had in the past when I was going 
to school. I might of not had as much time doing that work and 
learned even more. My girlfriend's niece is only 7 in third grade. 
That kid gets computer homework every night. By the time she hits 
high school. She will be able to run it without having to pay anyone 
to fix problems with it. computers have bridged the learning curve 
for schools that if the kids would just learn it instead of waste it. 
We might be doing the Buck Rogers thing buy now.
You find more things going forward then staying in the past and 
becoming outdated and useless! Just think about 8tracks. They came 
and gone like dust and about as useless. The same routine just gets 
borring, daul and mindless. If never progressed then nothing else 
gets made to work with those that are disabled.
The last example is windows and our games. No win95, no VB6 and all 
those games you like to play. Don't say text based was good. No one 
wanted to write commands for everything on the computer. i knew a 
secratary that used a computer every day at work. When I came up with 
my talking computer using the command line. She didn't even know how 
to do that. She was a spoon fed macro sighted world. I passed her 
college learned computer tasks in about 1 munth thanks to my talking 
computer and windows.
I will move right along with these computers, because each move is 
more i can do!


At 05:58 AM 12/12/2011, you wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Yeah, you know allot of people just do not like change.  Routine is 
comfortable.  And learning a new way of doing things may not be easy 
for some.  And then there is that often our access is behind.  That 
is our screen reader of choice may not support the newest version of 
an operating system as it comes out.  And then I don't think that 
the graphical user interface is as intuitive for us as it is for 
sighted folks.  So when it totally changes it may be harder for us 
to get a grip on what is going on with it.  Heck it took allot of 
blind people a very long time to move on from the text based command 
line to the graphical user interface.


BFN

Jim

A long time ago I changed my name from Ron Moore.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

The next move for screen readers should be touch. Apple already makes 
use of this and I use it a lot. i go through twice as much email as i 
can with jaws and lets not forget moving around on the computer with 
just my finger and no spoken commands. The games that can be explored 
by touch are going to be interesting. Just look what the mouse has 
done. And that could of ben done sooner. The problem is those that 
write the screen readers didn't think blind people could use a mouse.


At 02:18 AM 12/12/2011, you wrote:

Hi ?Charles,

Well, let me answer your question with a question. How do you expect
them to make money if they don't continually release upgrades?

It sounds to me like your question is along the lines of "if it ain't
broke don't fix it." While it might seem like you are paying money to
do the same old things with OS that takes more memory, more CPU power,
etc but I don't think you are paying attention to features or upgrades
that have been added to the operating system. Let's use Windows
Explorer as a simple example here.

Back in Windows 98 you could not burn cds or dvds through Windows
Explorer. Beginning with Windows XP you could burn data cds and music
cds directly from Windows Explorer. In Windows 7 you can burn data
cds, music cds, data dvds, and make video  dvds by burning avi and mpg
files  to dvd all through Windows Explorer. My point being that we can
clearly see new features like this being added to each successive
version of Windows Explorer. Its really not a case of the same thing
different version as a lot of other Windows programs have undergone a
similar evolution. Weather you use those new features or not is really
beside the point.

The way I read your message is Microsoft doesn't do anything new or
different from one version of Windows to the next accept make the OS
more bloated, more of a memory hog, and there is nothing to ever
recommend upgrading. I suppose some of what you say has some truth to
it, but as I said above I think its simply a case of not taking
advantage of the features and updates that are there.

For instance,in Windows 7 there are a number of gadgets, little
applets, you can dock to your desktop to monitor stocks and other real
time information. Well, obviously if you don't follow the stock market
and don't use the stock ticker gadget that would seem like a pretty
useless upgrade to you personally. However, I'm sure there are plenty
of people who buy and trade stocks online who happen to use that
little stock ticker gadget, and for them upgrading from Windows XP to
Windows 7 would have features they find useful in trading stocks.

My point being not everything Microsoft adds to the latest Windows
release will be important to you personally and it may even seem like
the same thing different version, but for someone like me its really
and truly not the same thing. There are a number of reasons a person
might choose to upgrade weather it is bug fixes, security fixes, a new
look and feel, more gadgets, additional features, whatever. It all
depends on how much or how little you get out of your computer to
begin with.

Cheers!


On 12/11/11, Charles Rivard  wrote:
> Do they really have to continually upgrade the operating system and
> programs, making more power hogs, making us buy more powerful computers to
> do the same tasks we were previously doing but having to use more powerful
> processors and use more of the resources to do those tasks?  Why can't they
> just leave well enough alone once they get a system that actually does what
> it's supposed to do?
>
> ---
> "Security is not the absence of danger.  It is the presence of the Lord."

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Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

Well if you don't let how it rearranges things. Go into the setting 
and change it. They call that customizing. I do it for ever op I use. 
known of my ops look or feel like basic. If more people went in the 
setting and tweaked what they need. Half of the questions asked "how 
to do this.". Would not even come around. People there are things 
such as menus, help and documents telling how to do these customizes.


At 07:23 AM 12/12/2011, you wrote:

Hi Tom.

My problem with the start menue generally in 7, and indeed most of 
the interface, is that it all works contextually.


For the past 12 or so years, I've learnt my way around the insides 
of windows by looking at what things are where, and putting things 
in places that I can easily find myself again.


For instance, "my documents" I've always used for documents, and for 
music have a music folder instead. The idea of having music insides 
the documents folder is less than logical to me.


I then have start menue icons grouped by use and developer. I have 
one folder for audio games, with sub folders for gma, usa games, 
spoonbill etc, one for text games with if interpreters and the like, 
one for freeware graphical games, one for generally useful programs 
such as avg etc.


This way I can A, find stuff more easily, but also know exactly what 
I've got just as easily as if I were to read the braille lables on 
my snes cartridges.


This is why i don't like the context sensative stuff, especially 
sinse it's usually based on last used.


if I get a hankering to play shades of doom, it doesn't matter if 
I've not played it for a while, indeed say I've finished playing q9, 
I don't want that on the top of the menue.


i suppose I just like being in personal control of where things are 
rather than leaving it to a computer filing system which might not 
be as I like it, much less be reliant upon a search box and auto 
complete features.


As it turns out, you can create folders in the start menue of 
windows 7, so I'll probably just try and get as close to my current 
setup as humanly possible.


it's not really a case of liking the xp interface, for me, it's more 
a case of liking an interface that I can have some measure of 
control over. In windows 7, that control is reduced, hence my 
dislike for the system, 
indeed I'm not looking forward to having to cope with windows 
explorer in 7 at all, sinse once again that has far more options than I need.


Again, this seems a case where microsoft have unilaterally decided 
what is best for everyone to have without any considderation that 
people may want something different.


Beware the grue!

Dark.
- O

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Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

Like how you put the below. Now if you could get those  useless brick 
heads at freedom Scientific to do the same with rebuilt jaws, and not 
just slip the new code into the old junk. Even there scripts need a 
total rework. There are scripts used for program that have not 
changed sense written and don't even work with the program now or do 
it very sluggishly. Talk about bloat ware.


At 11:54 PM 12/11/2011, you wrote:

Hi Dark,

I certainly understand why you feel the way you do about Windows
compatibility issues--I'm certain most end users are likely to see
things your way--but because you aren't a software developer you
aren't seeing the other side of the issue. Which is simply this.

First, Microsoft has a long history of maintaining backwards
compatibility with older software applications and APIs long after
they have passed out of mainstream use.

For example, up until 1995 most processors ran on a 16-bit
architecture. However, Intel's Pentium processor introduced the 32-bit
architecture to the PC market and Windows 95 was the very first
Windows version to support the 32-bit architecture.Microsoft could
have done away with 16-bit compatibility ages ago, but the 32-bit
version of Windows 7 still has 16-bit MS Dos backwards compatibility
support. Its only the 64-bit version of Windows 7 that no longer has
16-bit application support, and Microsoft has plenty of good reasons
to drop 16-bit support. Not the least of which is when does Microsoft
reach a cut off point, say that's it, and focus their time and money
supporting newer technologies?

Another example is Microsoft's DirectSound API. Keep in mind that the
technology was written in 1995, for PCs running Windows 95, and was
written completely for a different era of hardware. Microsoft patched
and maintained the API for as long as they could, but by 2005 there
was so many changes in hardware it required a complete rewrite from
scratch.  That's when they began writing XAudio and XAudio2 which have
essentially replaced DirectSound on Windows Vista and Windows 7, and
offers a lot of new features that weren't available in DirectSound.
Even though XAudio2 is technically the current API for audio
programming on Windows. Fact of the matter is Windows Vista, Win 7,
and Win 8 all come preinstalled with DirectSound 8 libraries for
backwards compatibility support even though the API is considered to
be deprecated. So contrary to your assertions Microsoft does try to
maintain a reasonable amount of backwards compatibility support as
long as its necessary and reasonable to do so.

Second, is stability and other technical concerns. In order to upgrade
and add new features to an operating system like Windows there usually
has to be changes in the underlying APIs that can and very well may
break compatibility with older software that rely on the API working
exactly as it did in prior versions. This is very problematic for
software developers, because they have to choose one of two methods
for handling this problem.

The method Microsoft has consistently chosen time and time again with
their APIs is to branch or fork the API when and where possible.
That's because there are sometimes changes that will break
compatibility with older software and instead of choosing to break
compatibility they allow two different versions of the library or API
to be installed side by side with each other like we see with
Microsoft's .NET Framework. While this certainly helps maintain
compatibility for the long hall it gets to be confusing for
developers, technical support, and of course end users who don't know
the difference between one version of the API or library from another.

The problem with forking an API and attempting to maintain backwards
compatibility this way is that it becomes extremely bloated and
successive upgrades only makes the problem worse. With Windows Vista
everyone complained of poor system performance, massive slow down, and
instability problems. Microsoft largely resolved these problems in
Windows 7 by removing thousands of lines of code from the operating
system, and by removing various libraries they felt that were no
longer needed. As a result Windows 7 is both more stable and runs much
more reliably than Windows Vista. It was a matter of necessity
regardless of the cost to backwards compatibility. If Microsoft hadn't
taken this necessary step and kept all that old code around Windows 7
would likely be as slow and unstable as Vista, because a software
developer can't continue to add layer after layer of code indefinitely
without degrading performance and stability. Sooner or later it
becomes a necessity to clean house, and get rid of everything that
isn't of primary importance.

Finally, while I agree not everything Microsoft does like menu
ribbons, changing the start menu, and various other changes aren't
strictly necessary its usually a result of trying to be competitive.
Microsoft now has to worry about competing with Apple's Mac OS
operating system, an

Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

They did that option and called it vista! Now if you don't have max 
ram and high CPU it runs like a brick! Remove the old outdated junk 
and you got win7 or even 8.


At 08:13 AM 12/12/2011, you wrote:
Frankly dallas where games are concerned, I couldn't give a monkies 
how good the newer codes are.


As I said, I don't really care about how powerful or anything else a 
system is, I care about what I can do with it.


That's why i stil have a snes, sinse I can play all the game i 
rather like on it, despite it being no where near up to the standard 
of todays games' consoles.


As I said, I just would like microsoft to acknolidge this, perhaps 
with a compatibility pack option that could be downloaded for those 
who needed it.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

Welcome to the wonderful world of computers!

At 01:26 PM 12/12/2011, you wrote:
Another thing about new technology--Microsoft's Windows in 
particular:  I buy a computer to do tasks, not to run the operating 
system.  If I have to buy a new PC because my old one doesn't have 
enough CPU power, it can't be loaded with enough RAM, the hardware 
isn't supported by the new OS, and I need to move along with 
technology, I will do so.  However, 2 years down the road, before 
the bugs have been worked out of this OS I bought the new PC to be 
able to operate, Microsoft comes out with a new, more demanding 
OS.  Two years later, another one that is more demanding.  Two years 
later, another one that is more demanding.  Before I know it, thanks 
only to Microsoft, I have another obsolete computer.  I need to buy 
another one to handle the new technology.  This! is! crap!


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Re: [Audyssey] plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

Sorry, but what you wrote made no sense at all. Want to rethink that 
thought so your understood?


At 04:31 AM 12/13/2011, you wrote:
I have not tried this but ms search is loaded with7 I have not my 
own but I wander if I remove it what will happen.

At 05:34 p.m. 12/12/2011 +, you wrote:

Hi Valiant.

In fairness I have only tried windows 7 on someone else's system 
not my own, so haven't had chance to deal with the search box.


As I said though, for me it's really because I'd rather see where 
things are and physically go and pick them up and put down, rather 
than trust an automated system.


Speed is less concern, though actually pressing p g g and down 
arrow is not that many less key presses than typing the word tank 
then arrowing through results either.


Then of course there are many times I want to choose. For example, 
last time I ws on the train, i wanted a relatively quick game to 
play, and one that didn't have overbearing sounds.


So I go into my audio games folder, look for a developer, and found 
spoonbill,  but which game do I feel like?


This is far nicer to do with a list rather than a search box.

It's certainly a feature I'll try out when I get windows 7, but 
currently with the setup I use and my preferences for doing things 
i'm not sure whether it'd sute me or not.


As to wifi networks, I'm slightly confused sinse the method you 
describe is exactly what I do on xp.


Network connections in start menue, wireless network connections, 
enter once then you've got the list of available networks in range 
that you can just hit enter and connect on.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

How do you expect to use the hardware, and incase you didn't know. 
All versions of ops need drivers to run the hardware.


At 04:25 AM 12/13/2011, you wrote:
sound, we need drivers with everything, though now ms have generic 
drivers you think they would have loaded those for the installs now.

At 05:01 p.m. 12/12/2011 +0100, you wrote:

Hi Thomas,
I personally are also not against new technologies or new features 
in future Windows operating systems or other programs.

But I'd like to adress a few points as well.
If a company wants to improove their software, then this is often 
good for all users and not because security might be better.
But what I often don't get is why people think it is time to force 
design changes.

I know of the ribbon interface of MS Office products and such.
I don't have used them (Office 2007 or 2010) thus I won't comment 
on which screen reader can best handle it.

I also know that every major upgrade brings new features as well.
But what I don't get is why MS did come up with the new interface 
and removed the old interface instead of having them both in the 
product for every person sighted or not to choose the design of their product.
I mean, why do programs like Winamp or Windows Media Player allow 
skins or skin packs?
The players ship with a standard interface, but are open for user 
created content.
Besides I had a sighted teacher who personally told me that he had 
several sighted friends and colleagues who were users of MS Office 
pre 2007 and when the new products came out they also had problems 
adapting and getting to figure out the new interface and they could 
see and use the mouse properly compared to us blind people.

And about screen readers like Voice Over or Narrator.
It would be good if thoose could be improoved.
But what I still don't get is why any assistive technology included 
in an operating system (windows mostly) cannot be used to aid 
during first installation (when you format your hard drive or when 
you use a blank one).
For years there was nothing short of a sighted person to help even 
if it became a bit easier with unattended installations of XP and a 
few older Windows versions.


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Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

And just what plan it you from? Because I run both of those ops and 
never paid for sp1 on any op.


At 04:18 AM 12/13/2011, you wrote:
we never had to pay for service packs but oses 7 and vista, yeah we 
had to pay for both.

At 09:26 a.m. 12/12/2011 -0600, you wrote:
Sort of like paying for a whole bunch of benefits that are provided 
by a hotel that you won't be using, in case you did want to use 
them.  That part I understand.  But building a new one every 2 
years or so and, after a time, closing the older one that is more 
popular and that no longer has plumbing or electrical problems, so 
that the customer must use the one that still has the bugs in 
it?  That's what I don't like.  If I have something that is stable 
and basically reliably bug free, why should I have to get the new 
one that is not?  If they want to make more money, their product 
should be worth the cost we must pay.  Service packs for XP were 
free of charge, and they fixed what we had to pay for, that was 
broke, to begin with.  Windows 7 fixed the Vista bugs, and I think 
we had to pay for both?  I might be wrong in that one, though.


---
"Security is not the absence of danger.  It is the presence of the Lord."

- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] my beef about Microsoft - Re: plans for an 
updated Lone Wolf




Hi ?Charles,

Well, let me answer your question with a question. How do you expect
them to make money if they don't continually release upgrades?

It sounds to me like your question is along the lines of "if it ain't
broke don't fix it." While it might seem like you are paying money to
do the same old things with OS that takes more memory, more CPU power,
etc but I don't think you are paying attention to features or upgrades
that have been added to the operating system. Let's use Windows
Explorer as a simple example here.

Back in Windows 98 you could not burn cds or dvds through Windows
Explorer. Beginning with Windows XP you could burn data cds and music
cds directly from Windows Explorer. In Windows 7 you can burn data
cds, music cds, data dvds, and make video  dvds by burning avi and mpg
files  to dvd all through Windows Explorer. My point being that we can
clearly see new features like this being added to each successive
version of Windows Explorer. Its really not a case of the same thing
different version as a lot of other Windows programs have undergone a
similar evolution. Weather you use those new features or not is really
beside the point.

The way I read your message is Microsoft doesn't do anything new or
different from one version of Windows to the next accept make the OS
more bloated, more of a memory hog, and there is nothing to ever
recommend upgrading. I suppose some of what you say has some truth to
it, but as I said above I think its simply a case of not taking
advantage of the features and updates that are there.

For instance,in Windows 7 there are a number of gadgets, little
applets, you can dock to your desktop to monitor stocks and other real
time information. Well, obviously if you don't follow the stock market
and don't use the stock ticker gadget that would seem like a pretty
useless upgrade to you personally. However, I'm sure there are plenty
of people who buy and trade stocks online who happen to use that
little stock ticker gadget, and for them upgrading from Windows XP to
Windows 7 would have features they find useful in trading stocks.

My point being not everything Microsoft adds to the latest Windows
release will be important to you personally and it may even seem like
the same thing different version, but for someone like me its really
and truly not the same thing. There are a number of reasons a person
might choose to upgrade weather it is bug fixes, security fixes, a new
look and feel, more gadgets, additional features, whatever. It all
depends on how much or how little you get out of your computer to
begin with.

Cheers!


On 12/11/11, Charles Rivard  wrote:

Do they really have to continually upgrade the operating system and
programs, making more power hogs, making us buy more powerful computers to
do the same tasks we were previously doing but having to use more powerful
processors and use more of the resources to do those tasks?  Why can't they
just leave well enough alone once they get a system that actually does what
it's supposed to do?

---
"Security is not the absence of danger.  It is the presence of the Lord."


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Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for anupdatedLone Wolf

[Trouble]

Well how is this for quality. Most of the paid virus stuff is hardly 
accessible and feed back to help make it is non existent, and at 
least MSE don't state a system file is a virus like those others do.
Some times when something is free. That don't mean is junk. I have 
seen more junk cost a lot and still be junk.


At 12:11 PM 12/13/2011, you wrote:

hi,
i'm not talking about accessibility
i'm talking about quality
so i'll be switching from a higher quality product to a lower 
quality product just because of accessibility



--
From: "john" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:54 PM
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for 
anupdatedLone Wolf


If your saying that MSE is inaccessable, that's not at all true. 
Not only is it totally accessable, but it's much much faster and 
far less entrucive than anything else I've scene, said being MSE, 
AVG, and Mcafee.


- Original Message -
From: "enes" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an 
updatedLone Wolf


hi,
about new technology
first microsoft is putting in ribbons to make the operating system more
useful for sited people
that's fine
but why not add an option to switch to the old style menus
I mean, whats rong with menus
more companies getting unaccessible
I used avira antivir 9.0 a vary powerful free antivirus, avira dropped
accessibility in 10.0
and in 12.0 its even worse
so i'm still using 9.0 and if they drop the virus defenition and engine
updates
i'll have to switch to microsoft security essentials probably
not that I wantto but there isn't much available in terms of accessibility

--
From: "Alex Kenny"  wrote:
Another thing about new technology--Microsoft's Windows in particular:  I
buy a computer to do tasks, not to run the operating system.  If I have
to
buy a new PC because my old one doesn't have enough CPU power, it can't
be
loaded with enough RAM, the hardware isn't supported by the new OS, and I
need to move along with technology, I will do so.  However, 2 years down
the
road, before the bugs have been worked out of this OS I bought the new PC
to
be able to operate, Microsoft comes out with a new, more demanding OS.
Two
years later, another one that is more demanding.  Two years later,
another
one that is more demanding.  Before I know it, thanks only to Microsoft,
I
have another obsolete computer.  I need to buy another one to handle the
new
technology.  This! is! crap!


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"If you think you are beaten, you are;
If you think you dare not, you don't;
If you'd like to win, but you think you can't,
It's almost a cinch you won't;
If you think you'll lose, you've lost,
For out in the world you'll find
Success begins with a fellow's will
It's all in the state of mind.
"Full many a race is lost
Ere even a race is run,
And many a coward fails
Ere even his work's begun.
Think big, and your deeds will grow,
Think small and you fall behind,
Think that you can, and you will;
It's all in the state of mind.
"If you think you are outclassed, you are;
You've got to think high to rise;
You've got to be sure of yourself
before You can ever win a prize.
Life's battle doesn't always go
To the stronger or faster man;
But sooner or later, the man who wins
Is the fellow who thinks he can."




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You can make changes or update

Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

Think they really learned? Anyone remember win me? XP was the fix for 
that mess, but XP pro was the best for long running.



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Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

How about preaching that to FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC!

At 08:35 PM 12/13/2011, you wrote:
If I have to wait for 10 years to make an upgrade that I, as well as 
everyone else, can use, that is for the most part bug free, that is 
stable and reliable, and that has feature worth the upgrade, that 
would be far more preferable than being given a buggy new OS every 2 
years that has to gradually be molded into what it should have been 
in the first place. Products that work as they should say a lot for 
the company that produces them, and products that don't speak just 
as loudly for the company that produces them, whether it be a PC, an 
OS, or a game.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "Dallas O'Brien" 


To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an 
updated Lone Wolf



yes, but at the same time, are you willing to wait 10 or more years 
for a new system to come out, just so you can use the stuff others 
are? because, think about it. xp is 10 years old. and they are 
still finding bugs with it!

dallas


On 14/12/2011 09:53, Charles Rivard wrote:
Was Vista better than XP?  Is Windows 7 better than Vista?  Am I 
right in that Windows 7 came out to be Vista with the bugs worked 
out?  And was Microsoft already working on Windows 8 when 7 came 
out?  One thing I would like to see, if Microsoft insists on 
continually coming out with a new OS time and time again, is that 
they quit rushing them to market before the bugs are worked out, 
and give us a solid stable product that has thoroughly been tested 
and proven to be stable and reliable, rather than a junky 
troublesome buggy product.  I know the task would be massive, and 
I know it would take an enormous amount of time and effort, but it 
would sure do a lot to regain the credibility they once had, and 
it would also be more readily received by the customers.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for 
an updated Lone Wolf




Hi Charles and all,

If you want to make that argument consider this. When Windows Vista
came out Windows XP was already six years old, and it introduced a lot
of new graphics technology that wasn't possible on the hardware specs
in 2001. Both Windows 7 and Windows 8 use the exact same hardware
requirements as Windows Vista, and actually run better on the same
hardware specs. So your argument of having to replace your hardware
every time Microsoft upgrades doesn't hold water.  I really urge you
guys to research your facts before making baseless arguments like this
because Microsoft does not change system requirements every two years
or for every Windows upgrade like you suggest.

Cheers!


On 12/12/11, Charles Rivard  wrote:

Another thing about new technology--Microsoft's Windows in particular: I
buy a computer to do tasks, not to run the operating system.  If I have to
buy a new PC because my old one doesn't have enough CPU power, it can't be
loaded with enough RAM, the hardware isn't supported by the new OS, and I
need to move along with technology, I will do so.  However, 2 
years down the
road, before the bugs have been worked out of this OS I bought 
the new PC to

be able to operate, Microsoft comes out with a new, more demanding OS. Two
years later, another one that is more demanding.  Two years later, another
one that is more demanding.  Before I know it, thanks only to Microsoft, I
have another obsolete computer.  I need to buy another one to 
handle the new

technology.  This! is! crap!


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Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an updated Lone Wolf

[Trouble]

That is right! No one here is twisting your arm to upgrade nor do they care!

At 08:37 PM 12/13/2011, you wrote:

Hi,
Obviously you have not had to buy said Operating Systems, so I don't
understand why you are still griping. To be honest I'm tired of you pressing
the same point over and over again. Let me put it this way: you don't want
to upgrade, don't do it.

Best Regards,
Hayden


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Rivard
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:35 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an updated
Lone Wolf

If I have to wait for 10 years to make an upgrade that I, as well as
everyone else, can use, that is for the most part bug free, that is stable
and reliable, and that has feature worth the upgrade, that would be far more

preferable than being given a buggy new OS every 2 years that has to
gradually be molded into what it should have been in the first place.
Products that work as they should say a lot for the company that produces
them, and products that don't speak just as loudly for the company that
produces them, whether it be a PC, an OS, or a game.

---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message -
From: "Dallas O'Brien" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an updated
Lone Wolf


> yes, but at the same time, are you willing to wait 10 or more years for a
> new system to come out, just so you can use the stuff others are? because,

> think about it. xp is 10 years old. and they are still finding bugs with
> it!
> dallas
>
>
> On 14/12/2011 09:53, Charles Rivard wrote:
>> Was Vista better than XP?  Is Windows 7 better than Vista?  Am I right in

>> that Windows 7 came out to be Vista with the bugs worked out?  And was
>> Microsoft already working on Windows 8 when 7 came out?  One thing I
>> would like to see, if Microsoft insists on continually coming out with a
>> new OS time and time again, is that they quit rushing them to market
>> before the bugs are worked out, and give us a solid stable product that
>> has thoroughly been tested and proven to be stable and reliable, rather
>> than a junky troublesome buggy product.  I know the task would be
>> massive, and I know it would take an enormous amount of time and effort,
>> but it would sure do a lot to regain the credibility they once had, and
>> it would also be more readily received by the customers.
>>
>> ---
>> Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
>> - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward"
>> 
>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 4:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new technology? Balogna! - Re: plans for an
>> updated Lone Wolf
>>
>>
>>> Hi Charles and all,
>>>
>>> If you want to make that argument consider this. When Windows Vista
>>> came out Windows XP was already six years old, and it introduced a lot
>>> of new graphics technology that wasn't possible on the hardware specs
>>> in 2001. Both Windows 7 and Windows 8 use the exact same hardware
>>> requirements as Windows Vista, and actually run better on the same
>>> hardware specs. So your argument of having to replace your hardware
>>> every time Microsoft upgrades doesn't hold water.  I really urge you
>>> guys to research your facts before making baseless arguments like this
>>> because Microsoft does not change system requirements every two years
>>> or for every Windows upgrade like you suggest.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/12/11, Charles Rivard  wrote:
 Another thing about new technology--Microsoft's Windows in particular:
 I
 buy a computer to do tasks, not to run the operating system.  If I have

 to
 buy a new PC because my old one doesn't have enough CPU power, it can't

 be
 loaded with enough RAM, the hardware isn't supported by the new OS, and

 I
 need to move along with technology, I will do so.  However, 2 years
 down the
 road, before the bugs have been worked out of this OS I bought the new
 PC to
 be able to operate, Microsoft comes out with a new, more demanding OS.
 Two
 years later, another one that is more demanding.  Two years later,
 another
 one that is more demanding.  Before I know it, thanks only to
 Microsoft, I
 have another obsolete computer.  I need to buy another one to handle
 the new
 technology.  This! is! crap!


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Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.

[Trouble]

True, you should of let him come forth and ask is 
it useable and then move to next problem.
If he determent accessibility to be to much of a 
nag. He just might mention it on the apple dev 
list and then accessibility will be a missed 
thought. Give a good experience about 
accessibility and he might show others a real need in using it.

At 10:22 AM 12/16/2011, you wrote:
Well at first he wrote on the game's public 
forum. At that time Mario seemed genuinely open 
to the idea. After a few messages between him, 
Michael and myself Mario asked us not to raise 
the issue again since he thought he had a pretty 
good idea what he was going to try. In fact he 
basically agreed with something Michael had 
already suggested, so there should have been no 
reason to write him further at tis time.

They're coming to take me away, ha-haaa!
- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.


Hi Michael,

No offense, but I think the response you got was justified from the
developer's perspective.  Its obvious from his response that he feels
you were e-mailing him too much over the accessibility topic, he felt
pressured and hounded, and instead of looking at it as suggestions he
saw it as spam. As a developer myself I do know where he is coming
from as there are certain members of this community who simply do not
know how to ask for something without being rude about it, or by
trying to pressure the developer by e-mailing him/her over and over
again until they are sick of it.

Seriously. Before you say the developer has a bad attitude why don't
you consider your own actions here and see how and why they might have
contributed to the developer's attitude?

I haven't seen your own post or posts to the developer so I can't give
you specifics, but I can tell you some general things that tick
developers off. Did you sound pushy, winy, or demanding when you wrote
your post? Did you send him one message or did you constantly send him
e-mails over and over again until he simply got fed up with reading
them? Did you discuss it privately, or did you write him in a public
forum for all to see?

My point being here is that there are a number of ways you can
irritate a developer without intending to just by being pushy,
demanding, writing your suggestions over a public forum instead of
privately, or just sending several messages on the same subject day
after day. If he wants to do something he'll do it, but if you
irritate the developer its likely he'll just blow you and your
suggestions off as an annoyance.



- Original Message -
From: "michael barnes" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 3:34 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.


Hey, All.
I wrote Mario a email sharing him some suggestions about the game.
And he wrote a bad response to me.
So I will not support his bad atitude about accessibility for blind and
low vision people.
Here is the message he sent me.

Hi Michael,


at first it was nice. Then it was constructive. Now it is spam.
Stop spamming me, will you?
Treat this message as a nice way to ask for:


- stop emailing me with accessibility issues that contain unwanted
advertisments
- stop using the game forum for these things


You can advertise your accessibility forum wherever you want, but not
on cost of my work.


Herzliche Grüße
Kind regards

--
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www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


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Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.

[Trouble]

Sounds more like a public temper tantrum. Then a real review on product.
Try to be mature about reviews and such, because acting like a child 
around adults will get you ignored!



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Re: [Audyssey] Silversword is not the game for the blind.

[Trouble]

Can I laugh here now? This is getting to be a joke!
Back to gaming while Mike finds some social skills.

At 11:56 PM 12/16/2011, you wrote:

Hey, Allis.
Well first of all when I was in contact with the person who help me 
create De Steno Games he was very happy to work with me.

I just asked him once and he was excited to do it.
I was not repeating myself in the message I was just trying to show 
him that I know what I am talking about when it comes to accessibility.


--
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Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously?

[Trouble]

One question, is this a gaming list or English list.
Just because Charles gets his nose bent on reading email by people in 
other countries. Don't mean we put this crap in the guidelines.
If you want that rule Charles. Then start your own list and you will 
be happy to know. Your the only member!

Back to games if this still is a gaming list.

At 05:09 AM 12/18/2011, you wrote:

I completely concure on the points suggested, such as putting proofreading
elements in the guidelines.  However, I think we are all probably taking
this a little too far, although I could be wrong.  I just don't want people
posting to the list and having to check several things, and thus getting
borred of doing this every time they have to send a message.


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Re: [Audyssey] USA Games Mailing Lists or Forums

[Trouble]

I like mail, it lets me read only what I want.
I like forms too, but you have to read all the stuff you don't want 
to get to what you do want. The same goes for wickys.


At 05:14 AM 12/20/2011, you wrote:

Hi everyone,

Over the last few days I have been actively rewriting and updating the
USA Games web pages, scripts, etc for 2012, and among the changes I'm
considering is replacing the USA Games mailing list and developers
list with an online forum similar to Audiogames.net or the BGT forum.
I'm interested in your opinions on this before I make any serious
changes in that direction. How many of you are in favor of switching
to an online forum and how many of you would rather stick to a mailing
list for discussion?

Thanks.

Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

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Re: [Audyssey] Need Help Taking Off In Zero Sight

[Trouble]

Hit s and it will give you speed.

At 09:25 AM 12/20/2011, you wrote:

Hi,

How do you determine the speed instead of the engine power?

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: www.ksapergia.net
Business Website: www.kjsproductions.com


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Re: [Audyssey] Add-ons for Microsoft's flight simulator other than IYP?

[Trouble]

Go here and it will tell you all you need to get it working.
http://www.itsyourplane.com/
At 04:01 PM 12/20/2011, you wrote:

voice commands? can you explayn these please?

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Re: [Audyssey] usa games forums vs lists new information

[Trouble]

Well I have read those posts and they seem miss led in the type of 
form. They think its going to be about the games Tom is putting out 
there to play. However, they are not told that the content of that 
form is going to be about programming games.
Quit miss leading and give the facts to what it is then you will get 
a known answer!


At 08:05 AM 12/21/2011, you wrote:

http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=6801



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Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

You got some of the principles, but way off on others.
The ailerons on the ends of the wings are what lets the plane turn 
left or right. You get this motion by moving the yoke left or right. 
By pushing forward or pulling back on the yoke causes the Elevators 
on the tail wings to raise or lower the planes level of flight. By 
giving the plane more or less power. Gives more or less wind on the 
wings surface to assist in these movements. Speed only makes you go 
faster or slower. Depending on wait of plane determines how much 
speed it takes to keep it in the air. Not all planes have rudders, 
and those that do move along with the ailerons.
Anyone that has flown and had time at the stick would of ben told 
this info after all its basic flying. You want hard flying try a helicopter.
i have flown just about all types of RC models from airplanes to 
hover craft. Now working on helicopters indoor type and out. Ben 
playing with these big boy toys for past 30 years and most of it being blind.


So with It's your plane and zero sight sims. You do get a good idea 
of flying by sim.





At 10:21 AM 12/22/2011, you wrote:

OK, small dissertation to follow.

Flying an aircraft is not at all like driving a car or a boat.  The biggest
difference is that many of your controls do not directly affect your
position and orientation in three-space, but instead affect the rate of
change of that orientation.

As a somewhat simplified example: moving the stick to the left initiates a
bank to the left, that is, the aircraft rolls along its long axis.  The
excursion from the zero-point of the stick controls how rapidly your roll
angle changes, rather than setting your absolute roll.  Move the stick only
a little, and your roll rate is slow, but you do continue rolling.  The same
sort of rate control works for the elevator (stick forward and back), with
the addition that gravity is still in effect, so that if you "unload" that
is remove all lift from the aircraft, you will eventually describe a
parabolic arc downwards (friction effects ignored.)

These two effects are combined in actual flying, especially high-performance
flying, so that turning is usually accomplished by rolling the aircraft,
then pulling back on the stick for a turn that occupies less horizontal
space.  Much dogfighting was done in the vertical, where rolling equates to
turning.  Typically you had more control authority for pitch then roll and
finally yaw, so you would use your pitch controls to aid in turning.

Now add engine power into the mix.  Goosing the throttle has more effects
than just increasing your speed.  Zero Sight has it right that you
accelerate or decelerate when you change throttle settings, but given that
lift is, among other things, a function of speed, if you are in level flight
and goose the throttle without making any other control changes, you will
climb.  Chop the power and you descend.

Now finally add in that when you bank, you tend to turn, and when you apply
rudder, it has an effect on bank angle, and both affect your pitch angle,
and you begin to see how complex flying even a WWII aircraft was.  Dark is
right that it was possible to turn someone who had never flown into a combat
pilot in relatively short order, though in the U.S. the training time was
more like six months and was every day, hours a day.

Now, we look at modern combat flying.  In addition to performing all the
above tasks, you have a complex cockpit layout that requires memorization.
You have radar to monitor in any of several possible modes.  You have
weapons packages, both air-to-air and air-to-ground that each have their
separate control characteristics.  It isn't like in the movies, just point
and shoot, you have to select targets, select weapon system for each target,
know your weapon's envelope of effectiveness and deploy it correctly.

Now to Dark's point, Lone Wolf does not cover every complexity of conning a
submarine in the WWII era, but it gives you enough to do that in the midst
of a furious combat sequence, firing on one target say, while evading three
incoming destroyers, you have plenty to do.  Also, it enforces the sorts of
snap decision-making that a sub commander would have to do.  Ok, my
targeting solution is coming into effect, but I have two destroyers bearing
down on me.  Do I wait and take the shot?  If so, do I then turn and snap
off a shot at a destroyer, or do I crash dive and hope to live through the
bombardment?

From what I've seen, Zero sight gets some of the feel of the "switchology"
right for modern aircraft, but the flight model is simplified to the point
where it doesn't impose a burden at all on the pilot.  The amazing thing
about modern fighter or attack pilots is that if need be, they can do all
this switching while yanking and banking at several gees.

Now, it's probably unrealistic of me to expect anyone to create a detailed
flight model, though I have some excel models that do a pretty good job, at
least for WWII era aircra

Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

Well so far you have a good start in the right direction, and sure 
will only improve in time.


At 03:03 PM 12/22/2011, you wrote:

Hah, great! But don't worry, everybody can be our kind of customer, we
surely don't think of making only flight simulator, we've got a lot a
interesting things for you in the future :D

2011/12/22 Christopher Bartlett 

> I'll echo Thomas' good wishes and praise for you.  I am not your typical
> consumer, so don't take my critique too much to heart.  One of these days,
> I'll get around to converting that excel data into the flight sim I want to
> play, which will likely interest only me.  *smile*
>
>Chris Bartlett
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
> Behalf Of Shard Workshop
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:22 PM
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project
>
> Thank you! We're really doing our best!
>
> 2011/12/22 Thomas Ward 
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > thanks. I'll check the new demo out. As I said in my post I'm willing
> > to keep an open mind on this game as there aren't too many good
> > fighter sims out there for the blind and this one has potential. Just
> > thought some of the bugs and features needed to be fixed before I was
> > willing to spend money on it. However, if I haven't said so before you
> > guys are off to a good start into the audio games community.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > On 12/22/11, Shard Workshop  wrote:
> > > Hi Thomas, if you are still interested, with patch 1.01 we have
> > introduced
> > > the possibility of changing the default (Cartesian) heading with the
> > Clock
> > > heading, with 0 degrees to the North, just by pressing A in the main
> > menu.
> > > Just redownload the patch to try it out in case you want.
> > >
> > > http://www.shardworkshop.com/zero-sight
> >
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Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

Did you know that excel was the back bone for Microsoft's first 
flight sim. You would have to google how to activate it, but it is 
still in the latest release of excel.


At 02:59 PM 12/22/2011, you wrote:

I'll echo Thomas' good wishes and praise for you.  I am not your typical
consumer, so don't take my critique too much to heart.  One of these days,
I'll get around to converting that excel data into the flight sim I want to
play, which will likely interest only me.  *smile*

Chris Bartlett


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Shard Workshop
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:22 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project

Thank you! We're really doing our best!

2011/12/22 Thomas Ward 

> Hi,
>
> thanks. I'll check the new demo out. As I said in my post I'm willing
> to keep an open mind on this game as there aren't too many good
> fighter sims out there for the blind and this one has potential. Just
> thought some of the bugs and features needed to be fixed before I was
> willing to spend money on it. However, if I haven't said so before you
> guys are off to a good start into the audio games community.
>
> Cheers!
>
> On 12/22/11, Shard Workshop  wrote:
> > Hi Thomas, if you are still interested, with patch 1.01 we have
> introduced
> > the possibility of changing the default (Cartesian) heading with the
> Clock
> > heading, with 0 degrees to the North, just by pressing A in the main
> menu.
> > Just redownload the patch to try it out in case you want.
> >
> > http://www.shardworkshop.com/zero-sight
>
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Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

You can disagree with the sim flying all you want. However, the facts 
are that air force and navy pilots have more sim time than actual 
flight time. They want them to know the controls before they give 
them a million dollar aircraft. That is also why most military pilots 
can fly anything, because of that sim training.
True, the sims we can use is basic. But, Who has the room for a full 
force sim capsule?


At 12:41 PM 12/22/2011, you wrote:

My comments interleaved with yours:


-Original Message-
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Trouble
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:47 AM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project

You got some of the principles, but way off on others.
The ailerons on the ends of the wings are what lets the plane turn
left or right. You get this motion by moving the yoke left or right.
By pushing forward or pulling back on the yoke causes the Elevators
on the tail wings to raise or lower the planes level of flight. By
giving the plane more or less power. Gives more or less wind on the
wings surface to assist in these movements. Speed only makes you go
faster or slower. Depending on wait of plane determines how much
speed it takes to keep it in the air. Not all planes have rudders,
and those that do move along with the ailerons.

Um Trouble, I have hours logged in an actual cockpit, have helped rebuild
aircraft and have an aeronautical engineer/pilot for a stepfather.  Trust
me, when you increase power, you climb, unless you trim the aircraft to
prevent it, just as when you decrease power, you descend, unless you trim
the aircraft or deploy flaps to increase the wing surface area.  here are
some very basic aerodynamics.

Lift is proportional to wing area and increases with angle of attack.  it
also increases with increasing velocity of airflow over the wing, (possibly
with the square of that velocity, I don't remember for sure.)  Increase
engine power in level flight, increase aircraft speed.  increase aircraft
speed, increase speed of air over the wing surface, thus increasing lift.


The ailerons increase the angle of attack for their wing.  Move the stick
left, increase the AoA on the right wing, producing more lift.  This rolls
the aircraft left, and does produce a small turning moment as well.  But if
you want to turn sharply, you quarter roll the aircraft and pull up on the
stick.  This pulls the aircraft through your turn more quickly than any
rudder-and-aileron alone turn can.  You can also roll and push the stick
forward for a negative-gee maneuver, but aircraft will typically turn more
tightly in a positive-gee regime.

There are aircraft where the rudder and ailerons are automatically
coordinated, but given the need to cross-control (to perform a side-slip for
instance, I'm guessing there are overrides even for the most modern,
fly-by-wire jets.  Obviously, I haven't flown an F16, though I have spoken
to people who have.

Anyone that has flown and had time at the stick would of ben told
this info after all its basic flying. You want hard flying try a helicopter.
I have flown just about all types of RC models from airplanes to
hover craft. Now working on helicopters indoor type and out. Ben
playing with these big boy toys for past 30 years and most of it being
blind.

I have never flown a helicopter, but based on what I've been told and read,
I'd agree that it's probably much harder than fixed-wing aircraft.  As for
the rest of this paragraph, I'm trying to see how you aren't accusing me of
lying, because that would be rude and disrespectful.  I have flown various
Sesna aircraft, as well as a Fairchild PT23, which is an open-cockpit WWII
era primary trainer with aerobatic capabilities.  I have survived and walked
away from a plane crash.  (Piper cub got flipped over by a freak crosswind
gust on landing, everyone but the plane was ok.)

I don't know what feedback you get flying an RC aircraft, not knowing your
vision level, but in order to comment disagree with my statements based on
your experience, you're going to have to convince me that you are in full
knowledge of exactly what your aircraft is doing at every moment in response
to your control commands.  You are also going to have to convince me that,
having actual sensory feedback in a cockpit, I don't know what I'm talking
about.  Good luck with that.

So with It's your plane and zero sight sims. You do get a good idea
of flying by sim.

I must respectfully but completely disagree.

Christopher Bartlett



At 10:21 AM 12/22/2011, you wrote:
>OK, small dissertation to follow.
>
>Flying an aircraft is not at all like driving a car or a boat.  The biggest
>difference is that many of your controls do not directly affect your
>position and orientation in three-space, but instead affect the rate of
>change of that orienta

Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles

[Trouble]

Well done a little of that too.
The rockets are not hard to build, it just takes a bit of time. The 
engines they use are solid pods in sizes A, B, C, D. The D type 
engine is a 2 stage design, and each letter progresses up in power.
Now building, getting them ready to fly can be done. however, they do 
go up enough that you will lose sound from engine and then when done no sound.
So as long as you got someone with sight. You can pretty much get 
your rocket back.
Do a search on youtube for model rockets. They have a lot you can get 
the feel for it.


At 07:21 AM 12/24/2011, you wrote:
Model rocketry has always fascinated me.  How difficult are they to 
build? How detailed are they?  What fuel is used?  This could be a 
thread loaded with questions for experienced rocketeers, and I don't 
know how blind friendly the model rocketry would be, but I like the 
subject, so there ya go.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 4:56 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles



Hi Jim,

Interesting. When I was younger, before I lost my sight, I use to help
my dad build gas powered model airplanes that we took out and flew on
the weekends. the nice thing about where we lived is there was a
little airport made especially for model airplanes not far from our
house and I spent hours of fun flying model aircraft over the summer
break. Its one of the things I truly miss as an adult as my dad and I
don't really have that kind of time to share any more.

Another type of model aircraft I was into is model rockets. We would
pick one up at the store build it, put a little gas powered engine in
the bottom, and then take it down to the model airport and launch them
off. One of the coolest model rockets I owned was called the Camrock.

The Camrock had a small 110 camra mounted in the nose cone, and if you
put a roll of 110 film in it you could do airial photography using the
rocket.The way it worked is you launched the rocket, it went up to say
500 feet I think, and then came back down. As it rolled over the
parachute would deploy triggering the camra and it would take a
snapshot of the ground below. Somewhere around here I have a framed
photograph of my old neighborhood I took with the camrock when I was 9
or 10 years old.

However, now days like you I mainly spend my time with radio
controlled vehicles. My son and I sometimes take them down to the
local park and race them when the weather is nice. I've got a Dodge
Ram pickup, a Hummer, a couple of dune buggies, and a large 1/6 scale
four wheeler. I've even got a radio controlled boat my son and I take
turns playing with in my in-laws pond. I think the next thing I want
to buy is a radio controlled submarine.


Cheers!


On 12/23/11, Jim Kitchen  wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Yes, Puppy 1 is a game and not a flight simulation program.  The only thing
that is real about it is that all of the planes and each bullet do have an
x, y and z coordinate that are up dated about 20 times per second.

If I could write a real flight simulation program I would want to use real
longitude, latitude and altitude coordinates.  You know like maybe start out
at the correct longitude, latitude and altitude coordinates of the Cleveland
Hopkins International airport.  Then be able to fly to and land at Burk
Lakefront airport.  And then maybe fly to the Cuyahauga airport.  And then
back to the Cleveland Hopkins International airport.  But to fly say from
the Cleveland Hopkins International airport to say L.A.X. would just be
boring.  One would just take off, gain altitude, set a heading and let the
plane fly for hours and hours, until you got near L.A.X.  I did really enjoy
the Microsoft flight simulation program when I still had a tiny bit of
sight.  It even allowed me to set longitude, latitude and altitude
coordinates.  And soon I was flying around the Brooklyn bridge, the Statue
of Liberty and even the Twin Towers.

BTW My Dad's life long hobby was building and flying remote control gas
powered model airplanes.  Most were built from kits that you buy, but he did
at one point start designing and building his own planes.  The first was a
biplane and was named Puppy 1.  Puppy 2 was also a biplane, but puppy 3 was
not.  I myself have always been more into gas or electric powered remote
control cars, trucks and all terrain vehicles.  I have ten of them.

BFN

 Jim

There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles

[Trouble]

Well thanks for stepping in my play box. here is a sub you might like.
http://www.bananahobby.com/1998.html

At 05:56 AM 12/24/2011, you wrote:

Hi Jim,

Interesting. When I was younger, before I lost my sight, I use to help
my dad build gas powered model airplanes that we took out and flew on
the weekends. the nice thing about where we lived is there was a
little airport made especially for model airplanes not far from our
house and I spent hours of fun flying model aircraft over the summer
break. Its one of the things I truly miss as an adult as my dad and I
don't really have that kind of time to share any more.

Another type of model aircraft I was into is model rockets. We would
pick one up at the store build it, put a little gas powered engine in
the bottom, and then take it down to the model airport and launch them
off. One of the coolest model rockets I owned was called the Camrock.

The Camrock had a small 110 camra mounted in the nose cone, and if you
put a roll of 110 film in it you could do airial photography using the
rocket.The way it worked is you launched the rocket, it went up to say
500 feet I think, and then came back down. As it rolled over the
parachute would deploy triggering the camra and it would take a
snapshot of the ground below. Somewhere around here I have a framed
photograph of my old neighborhood I took with the camrock when I was 9
or 10 years old.

However, now days like you I mainly spend my time with radio
controlled vehicles. My son and I sometimes take them down to the
local park and race them when the weather is nice. I've got a Dodge
Ram pickup, a Hummer, a couple of dune buggies, and a large 1/6 scale
four wheeler. I've even got a radio controlled boat my son and I take
turns playing with in my in-laws pond. I think the next thing I want
to buy is a radio controlled submarine.


Cheers!


On 12/23/11, Jim Kitchen  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Yes, Puppy 1 is a game and not a flight simulation program.  The only thing
> that is real about it is that all of the planes and each bullet do have an
> x, y and z coordinate that are up dated about 20 times per second.
>
> If I could write a real flight simulation program I would want to use real
> longitude, latitude and altitude coordinates.  You know like 
maybe start out
> at the correct longitude, latitude and altitude coordinates of 
the Cleveland

> Hopkins International airport.  Then be able to fly to and land at Burk
> Lakefront airport.  And then maybe fly to the Cuyahauga airport.  And then
> back to the Cleveland Hopkins International airport.  But to fly say from
> the Cleveland Hopkins International airport to say L.A.X. would just be
> boring.  One would just take off, gain altitude, set a heading and let the
> plane fly for hours and hours, until you got near L.A.X.  I did 
really enjoy

> the Microsoft flight simulation program when I still had a tiny bit of
> sight.  It even allowed me to set longitude, latitude and altitude
> coordinates.  And soon I was flying around the Brooklyn bridge, the Statue
> of Liberty and even the Twin Towers.
>
> BTW My Dad's life long hobby was building and flying remote control gas
> powered model airplanes.  Most were built from kits that you buy, 
but he did

> at one point start designing and building his own planes.  The first was a
> biplane and was named Puppy 1.  Puppy 2 was also a biplane, but puppy 3 was
> not.  I myself have always been more into gas or electric powered remote
> control cars, trucks and all terrain vehicles.  I have ten of them.
>
> BFN
>
>  Jim
>
> There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
>
> j...@kitchensinc.net
> http://www.kitchensinc.net
> (440) 286-6920
> Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles

[Trouble]

Think you want to take a look at the tanks? They do shoot!

At 10:00 AM 12/24/2011, you wrote:
Rats!  It doesn't fire torpedoes!  Now, wouldn't that be cool?  An 
RC sub that fires RC torpedoes that you maneuver.  Get a bunch of 
people with a few of these and some RC boats of different types and 
you have Lone Wolf RC. (grin)


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles



Hi Trouble,

Thanks for the link. This looks awesome. Too bad its Christmas eve or
I'd be dropping hints to see if my wife would get me one of these
submarines for Christmas. Oh, well, my birthday is coming up soon, and
maybe I can get her to spring the $60 for this bad boy.

Cheers!


On 12/24/11, Trouble  wrote:

Well thanks for stepping in my play box. here is a sub you might like.
http://www.bananahobby.com/1998.html


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Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles

[Trouble]

You can give that effect, and you know how far that rocket will apex. 
You can really wake up a city! hahahah


At 09:45 AM 12/24/2011, you wrote:
Sort of like going to a Fourth of July fireworks show, huh?  The 
best part about them is the explosions, if there are decent 
ones.  The model rockets wouldn't have that part, darnit.  Probably 
just a hiss or whoosh, sort of like a bottle rocket, and that's 
about it.  Bummer.  They do look cool, though.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles



Hi Charles,

Well, keep in mind I still had sight when I was into model rockets,
but the kits usually weren't that difficult to build. Of course, how
difficult the kit was to build depended on the kit. They ranged from
beginner models for kids to very advanced models for adults. The
models I built were mostly the beginner models as I was only 9 or 10
years old at the time and the instructions were not that difficult.

However, I do remember my dad and I did buy one of the more advanced
kits, the Apollo 11, and that one required my dad's help because it
was a fairly detailed replication of the Saturn 5 rocket and Apollo 11
command module.It had to be painted, glued together, and there were
several detailed decals  to add to it. I suppose I could have done
that one myself, as I was sighted at the time, but couldn't have done
that one blind as we wanted it to look as close as possible to the
real thing.

As far as the fuel goes the model rockets use a solid rocket engine
meaning that it uses a special propellant  that comes with the engine
you buy from the toy store. The fuel and oxidizer are mixed together
into a propellant that is packed into a solid cylinder which comes
inside the model rocket engine itself. You use an electric ignition to
light the engine, and launch the model rocket into the air. Once you
use the engine you have to replace it before relaunching the model
rocket as there is no way to refuel it. That's why model rocket
engines generally come three to a pack as you can only use them once
before throwing them away and buying a new one.

The reason why modern model rockets use solid propellant rather than
liquid fuels like gas is for safety reasons. Apparently, back in the
60's when model rockets first became really popular kids had a habit
of blowing their hands and arms off messing with liquid fuels like
gas. So modern model rocket engines use the same type of solid
propellant the shuttle uses in its solid rocket boosters but only on a
smaller scale of course. You just install the engine, set your rocket
on the launch pad, connect the electric ignition and blast off. There
isn't any handling flammable materials, poisonous chemicals, or
anything too dangerous for a kid to get hurt with. Just remember to
stand back before igniting the engine as you could get toasted if you
are too close.

As far as  a blind person building and flying model rockets I think
the blindness issue takes a lot of the fun out of it. The most fun I
had with them was launching them and watching them reach maximum
altitude, say 1,000 feet, and then descend back to the earth. Not
being able to watch them fly takes most if not all of the fun out of
it. At least for me that's been the reason I haven't gotten back into
it.

For example, back around Easter time my in-laws had a couple of model
rockets they decided to launch after dinner and everyone sat outside
watching the rockets go up one after another. I felt really left out
of the experience because I could hear them take off, and had to
listen to people ooh and ah as they flew overhead. One even crash
landed right in the middle of the pond and we couldn't get it until
summer when someone finally went swimming and retrieved it out of the
mud. By that time it was pretty much hosed. In any case I didn't
really feel connected to the fun of watching them. Being told a rocket
just torpedoed straight into the middle of the pond isn't quite as fun
as watching it hit, break apart, and sink.

Cheers!


On 12/24/11, Charles Rivard  wrote:

Model rocketry has always fascinated me.  How difficult are they to build?
How detailed are they?  What fuel is used?  This could be a thread loaded
with questions for experienced rocketeers, and I don't know how blind
friendly the model rocketry would be, but I like the subject, so there ya
go.

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Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles

[Trouble]

Ben looking at them for a long time, and that is the best one found.

At 08:53 AM 12/24/2011, you wrote:

Hi Trouble,

Thanks for the link. This looks awesome. Too bad its Christmas eve or
I'd be dropping hints to see if my wife would get me one of these
submarines for Christmas. Oh, well, my birthday is coming up soon, and
maybe I can get her to spring the $60 for this bad boy.

Cheers!


On 12/24/11, Trouble  wrote:
> Well thanks for stepping in my play box. here is a sub you might like.
> http://www.bananahobby.com/1998.html

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Re: [Audyssey] Model Aircraft and Radio Controlled Vehicles

[Trouble]

It does make a hum and some bubbles as it goes under.

At 10:10 AM 12/26/2011, you wrote:

Hi Jim,

Good question. I'd imagine the RC submarine would make some kind of
wine or hum as it moves. The RC boats that I've driven make a loud
wine as they spead over the water, and sometimes if the weather is
right you can hear the slosh of the water as it moves.  I'd imagine
the RC submarine would make some kind of similar sound.

Cheers!


On 12/26/11, Jim Kitchen  wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Wow, I love the sound of your RC Harley with the biker Barbie on it.
>
> I am just wondering how you would hear where a RC submarine is.
>
> BFN
>
>  Jim
>
> Can I interest you in my lakefront property at Chickamaconico?
>
> j...@kitchensinc.net
> http://www.kitchensinc.net
> (440) 286-6920
> Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

; Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
> - Original Message - From: "Trouble" 
> To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project
>
>
>> You got some of the principles, but way off on others.
>> The ailerons on the ends of the wings are what lets the plane 
turn left or right. You get this motion by moving the yoke left or 
right. By pushing forward or pulling back on the yoke causes the 
Elevators on the tail wings to raise or lower the planes level of 
flight. By giving the plane more or less power. Gives more or less 
wind on the wings surface to assist in these movements. Speed only 
makes you go faster or slower. Depending on wait of plane 
determines how much speed it takes to keep it in the air. Not all 
planes have rudders, and those that do move along with the ailerons.
>> Anyone that has flown and had time at the stick would of ben 
told this info after all its basic flying. You want hard flying try 
a helicopter.
>> i have flown just about all types of RC models from airplanes to 
hover craft. Now working on helicopters indoor type and out. Ben 
playing with these big boy toys for past 30 years and most of it being blind.

>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

For a look at hovers,
http://www.bananahobby.com/

At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote:

Hey Charles and all.

The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small.  I 
have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, 
my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory 
serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the 
manual to get exact specs.  Last year I picked up one of the little 
Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the 
Eflight micros.  These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and 
they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small.


Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we 
have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to 
scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft 
either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more 
room.  The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is 
pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we 
develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you 
definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really 
understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly 
that way.  Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't 
been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to 
get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not 
cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, 
they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an 
internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then 
you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick 
to counter this movement.  If you are a total which I am this is 
going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move 
your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is 
drifting forward, backward, or sideways.  The best approach that 
I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it 
goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong.


These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly 
them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a 
way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a 
virtual one.  I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult 
life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio 
control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able 
to actually get into it.  Having said that if you do decide to give 
this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive 
ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only 
run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked.  That way 
if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world.  You can get 
better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just 
about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor 
flying then I am considering something like the MCX2.  If you want 
something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be 
worth looking at.  There are of course way more expensive ones, you 
can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since 
I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about 
and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, 
the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked.  One 
nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones 
I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, 
the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can 
get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one.


In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things 
that we can do in that hobby without sight.  Besides my two helis I 
also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 
scale rc tanks.  RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested 
in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so 
would be glad for any info on that.  If anyone is interested in 
getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it 
further but we probably oughta do it off list since this isn't really gaming.


Game on.

Tom
On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Charles Rivard wrote:

> Just curious:  Indoor helicopters?  I would think that any flying 
craft needs a lot of space.  How big are these helicopters?, and 
how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling 
without looking?  It sounds like interesting fun!

>
> ---
> Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
> - Original Message - From: "Trouble" 
> To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [Audys

Re: [Audyssey] pbgames is dead at last

[Trouble]

if there having problems with java script. They need to open up IE 
and check the security tab menu in options. Look for custom... then 
find all the java script and change it to run.

Sometimes when updates come the browser settings take a hit too.
Now if your using something else to play them in you will have to 
look in its help for what it does java script.
Firefox is good, but once you put all the ad ons to run the web pages 
you like. then you more or less have the same thing you left in IE. 
Also it prone to more bugs being open source. More script kitties 
have time to pick at it.

The virtual java machine or JVM has nothing to do with java script.
At 11:06 AM 1/4/2012, you wrote:

Hi Dean,

So have I. Which I think proves whatever problems people are having
with these games are PC specific. I've got Windows 7 Home Premium
64-bit on my new Toshiba and Tarzan Junior, Dark Destroyer,
Duckblaster, etc work fine.


On 1/3/12, Dean Masters  wrote:
> I just played Dark Destroyer on my windows 7 home premium 64 bit PC.
>
> Dean

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Re: [Audyssey] pbgames is dead at last

[Trouble]

You sure your reading these emails? Because not only me but others 
have pointed out that the JVM has nothing to do with java script.

Your browser security settings are stopping you from playing.

At 06:48 PM 1/4/2012, you wrote:

hmmm strange.
I have always kept this box updated with all libs.
I even have legacy jvms loaded on this system.
Weird, it all worked before.
I guess, next time I reinstall, i will just have to install those 
things at the end but  you are right.

Its not like they work its almost like I can't do anyting in them.
Though they load ok.
At 10:50 p.m. 3/01/2012 -0500, you wrote:

Hi,

Yeah, I don't get this. You are absolutely right about the pB games
being written in Javascript, a web programming language, and in fact
they still play ok on my new PC. I've seen the thread Shaun is  making
reference to and I'm of the mind its a PC specific problem rather than
the games themselves. Although, I do agree they could do for a rewrite
in BGT or something else to insure they maintain compatibility with
newer versions of Windows and to drop Internet Explorer etc as a
dependency.

On 1/3/12, Hayden Presley  wrote:
> Hi Shaun,
> Just to say this again, I said it already, but I thought I 
should reiterate:
> these games were written in Java Script, not Java. Java is a 
language of the
> C varity, which works well on pretty much any Windows platform: 
Java Script
> is a language used for web application development, which is why 
you see the
> interface you do if you open a game written in said language. So 
Java games
> will still work. I'm not sure why you are saying Java Script 
games wouldn't,

> though.
>
> Best Regards,
> Hayden
>

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Re: [Audyssey] java script security things

[Trouble]

This email only proves you don't read them, because i told you where to look.
So you don't wine,
IE, tools menu, Internet options, security tab menu, custom... and 
look for java script. There are a few in there.


At 01:00 AM 1/5/2012, you wrote:

Hi.
WHat ie settings do I need to modify to play javascript games?
I don't touch most of these in fact have never needed to for ages.
I have ie8 on my xp systems and ie9 on win7 here on another unit to.


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Re: [Audyssey] java script security things

[Trouble]

i wonder if you also go by Marvin? Because I know one on another list 
that does the same with emails.


At 01:00 AM 1/5/2012, you wrote:

Hi.
WHat ie settings do I need to modify to play javascript games?
I don't touch most of these in fact have never needed to for ages.
I have ie8 on my xp systems and ie9 on win7 here on another unit to.


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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

you should check out youtube.com
They have a lot of reviews and open box showing a lot of this stuff.

At 02:34 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote:
Hey thanks for the tips Trouble, great to meet another blind guy 
into this hobby you're the first I've come across in quite a 
while.  Yes I do try to take the heli off with the tail toward me 
for a good point of reference but you of course sometimes get 
rotation one way or the other which will throw you off.  These 
little helis that I have don't have individual trim controls they 
just have a trim dial below the sticks.  I assume if I get something 
a bit more sophisticated like the Eflight ones I mention they will 
have more trim controls.


Thanks again.

Tom
On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Trouble wrote:

> To help fix that drift. Get the helicopter to hover with tail to 
you. Then if it drifts left, give rudder trim on radio a little 
until it stops. With no wind conditions you should be able to get a 
steady hover. If not know where the trims are on radio. They are 
right next to the gimbals.

>
> At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote:
>> Hey Charles and all.
>>
>> The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small.  I 
have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few 
years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if 
memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at 
the manual to get exact specs.  Last year I picked up one of the 
little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of 
the Eflight micros.  These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches 
and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small.

>>
>> Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we 
have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to 
scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor 
craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who 
has more room.  The motors on these little things are easily 
audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear 
coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the 
difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and 
be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be 
able to think quickly that way.  Basically the first thing I try to 
work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable 
hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your 
rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear 
if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that 
most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all 
will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with 
your directional stick to counter this movement.  If you are a 
total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will 
not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will 
not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or 
sideways.  The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a 
bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct 
quickly if you have guessed wrong.

>>
>> These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to 
fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better 
in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead 
of a virtual one.  I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my 
adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital 
radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've 
been able to actually get into it.  Having said that if you do 
decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of 
the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis 
are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I 
checked.  That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the 
world.  You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for 
instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you 
want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like 
the MCX2.  If you want something that you can fly outside too then 
maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at.  There are of course way 
more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of 
dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to 
spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably 
considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is 
around 150 or so last time I checked.  One nice thing about the 
better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really 
pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones 
are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much 
any spare parts you need if you do crash one.

>>
>> In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are d

Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt.
The one I have is like the first one on list in size.
One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original drifters 
when it comes to turning.



At 03:52 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote:

Hi again.

Have checked out some of the hovercraft on the banana hobby page you 
provided, these look real interesting and reasonably priced to 
boot.  One thing I notice I do not see any brand names on the 
product descriptions so it will be kind of difficult to find youtube 
vides on specific ones.  Do you have any of the listed models on 
there and if so what do you like and not like about them?


Thanks again.

Game on.

Tom

On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Trouble wrote:

>For a look at hovers,
> http://www.bananahobby.com/
>
> At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote:
>> Hey Charles and all.
>>
>> The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small.  I 
have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few 
years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if 
memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at 
the manual to get exact specs.  Last year I picked up one of the 
little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of 
the Eflight micros.  These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches 
and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small.

>>
>> Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we 
have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to 
scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor 
craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who 
has more room.  The motors on these little things are easily 
audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear 
coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the 
difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and 
be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be 
able to think quickly that way.  Basically the first thing I try to 
work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable 
hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your 
rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear 
if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that 
most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all 
will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with 
your directional stick to counter this movement.  If you are a 
total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will 
not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will 
not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or 
sideways.  The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a 
bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct 
quickly if you have guessed wrong.

>>
>> These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to 
fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better 
in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead 
of a virtual one.  I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my 
adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital 
radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've 
been able to actually get into it.  Having said that if you do 
decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of 
the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis 
are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I 
checked.  That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the 
world.  You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for 
instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you 
want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like 
the MCX2.  If you want something that you can fly outside too then 
maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at.  There are of course way 
more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of 
dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to 
spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably 
considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is 
around 150 or so last time I checked.  One nice thing about the 
better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really 
pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones 
are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much 
any spare parts you need if you do crash one.

>>
>> In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely 
things that we can do in that hobby without sight.  Besides my two 
helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a 
couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks.  RC hovercraft are something I'm 
really interested in but have not done much research on

Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

Sense you like to shoot things,
http://www.thinkrc.com/u810-missile-launching-35ch-fly-wolf-helicopter-gyro-and-sound-graphite-p-1436.html

At 07:16 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote:

Hi Tom,

Smile. Oh, the topic is fine. Leave it on list. They may be toys, but
there are certainly gaming aspects to RC toys that maybe you haven't
thought about.

For example, if you have a couple of RC race cars you can race them.
That's certainly a game even if it isn't computer gaming specifically.

Another application is RC planes. There are a number of RC planes and
jets that fire toy missiles etc and I've seen people do some pretty
decent mock air engagements with those things. Again, it isn't
computer gaming, but the way the RC toys are used in that case could
be gaming of sorts.

Cheers!


On 1/3/12, Tom Randall  wrote:
> Hey Charles and all.
>
> The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small.  I have a
> couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my 
Bladerunner

> has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at
> about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs.  Last
> year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically
> a cheapy version of the Eflight micros.  These have a rotor diameter of
> about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very
> very small.
>
> Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too
> much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our
> female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down 
to our rec

> room or over to a friend's place who has more room.  The motors on these
> little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type
> of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the
> difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able
> to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think
> quickly that way.  Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't
> been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the
> heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much
> turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift 
very easily

> despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air
> currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very 
slight amount

> with your directional stick to counter this movement.  If you are a total
> which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which
> way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is
> drifting forward, backward, or sideways.  The best approach that I've found
> is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to
> correct quickly if you have guessed wrong.
>
> These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so
> far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because
> you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one.  I've
> had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's 
only since we

> are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably
> affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it.  Having
> said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you
> pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima
> helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I
> checked.  That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world.  You
> can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just
> about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying
> then I am considering something like the MCX2.  If you want something that
> you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking 
at.  There

> are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands
> of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend
> the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the
> less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I
> checked.  One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the
> cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's
> it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get
> pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one.
>
> In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we
> can do in that hobby without sight.  Besides my two helis I also have a
> bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc 
tanks.  RC

> hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much
> research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on
> that.  If anyone is interested in getting into this 

Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

When you get to 4CH type. The smallest blade length is around 8 in 
and up to or better than 27 in.

The bigger you go the less you have to worry about wind.
You can have a lot of fun with the small one for cheep.

At 07:05 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote:

Hi Charles,

The indoor helicopters are too small to be flown outside, the wind
will often cause them to crash, and the reason is because they are
pretty small. The indoor models are not much bigger than a man's hand,
roughly speaking, and are maybe 6 inches long and the propeller on top
is about six to eight inches in diameter. Like I said they are pretty
small and aren't big enough to handle a lot of air current or wind so
they have to be flown indoors.

As for flying them you can here them flying around so if you have a
good idea where walls, doors, lamps, and things are you can usually
avoid them. Although, I've misjudged that stuff a time or to and
crashed my son's indoor helicopter into lamps, walls, doors, windows,
and things like that plenty of times without any serious damage to
either the helicopter or whatever it ran into.

Cheers!


On 12/22/11, Charles Rivard  wrote:
> Just curious:  Indoor helicopters?  I would think that any flying craft
> needs a lot of space.  How big are these helicopters?, and how do you
> navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking?  It
> sounds like interesting fun!
>
> ---
> Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.

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Re: [Audyssey] Adult Games was Huge Cave

[Trouble]

Guess they weren't that good to start with, because all they are is 
games. If they can't tell the difference then they need to grow up!


At 05:26 AM 1/6/2012, you wrote:

Hi Thomas,

Yeah, I also wish that there were more adult games.  However you 
would not believe how much flack I got for making games like Triple 
J Shooter, Spanker, Coupling and even the adult prize list in 
Concentration and the adult word list in Hangman.  I even lost good 
friends over them.


I personally am way more against violence in games than sex in 
games.  But that seems to be a very minority opinion.


BFN

Jim

Cleverly disguised as a Responsible Adult

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

Like to get my hands on one of them to. With them you get flight time 
stats of where it is and that all can be put to a talking digital 
display. Now we may not be able to use the cameras to good, but 
weapons are just a button away.
The only thing that keeps it from my collection is about a few 
million dollars. Guess I'll have to see about cracking into a 
training session to fly that one.


At 07:55 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote:

Hi Trouble,

Sweet! This helicopter looks awesome. Although, I'd rather fly one of
the U.S. militaries unmanned recon drones. Those things are frickin'
awesome!

On 1/5/12, Trouble  wrote:
> Sense you like to shoot things,
> 
http://www.thinkrc.com/u810-missile-launching-35ch-fly-wolf-helicopter-gyro-and-sound-graphite-p-1436.html


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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

Back in the mid 80's when I still had sight. I was in NC and from the 
hill I was on. I got to see a F18 flown by remote. It had a pilot, 
but he was waving to me with both hands as the jet wash blew me off 
that hill. So that should give you a idea of how low they where 
flying threw those mountains with something that big.


At 03:15 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote:

Hi,

Grin. Yeah, me to. I heard the Reaper is a nasty little drone with
quite a lot of firepower for an unmanned aircraft. You can fly that
little drone to anywhere in the world and blow them to kingdom come
with a couple of well placed missiles. They saw some action in Iraq
and the enemy never knew what hit them.

I read this true story about the U.S. military had a Reaper drone
doing recon when they saw  a couple of guys mining the roads. Let's
just say they probably wished they hadn't. The general ordered the
drone's operator to open fire on the guys and a single missile blew
them apart before they even know what hit them. As I said its a nasty
little piece of military hardware we have in the field these days.

On 1/6/12, Trouble  wrote:
> Like to get my hands on one of them to. With them you get flight time
> stats of where it is and that all can be put to a talking digital
> display. Now we may not be able to use the cameras to good, but
> weapons are just a button away.
> The only thing that keeps it from my collection is about a few
> million dollars. Guess I'll have to see about cracking into a
> training session to fly that one.
>

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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

The cars are not bad either. Had a truck that was clocked in the 
pickup doing 40mph. Everyone in the hood came out to watch that car 
run up and down the street. It really blew there minds when they 
found out I was blind, and driving that car perfect at those speeds. 
The car was a Duritrax STS1/10 scale.

So yes, blind people we can drive not just not ride.

At 03:25 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote:

Hi Tom,

Yeah, exactly my point. I noticed when playing with my son's little
helicopter the same skills I use in Shades of doom etc came into play
with that heli because I had to listen carefully to where it was going
and use my spacial orientation to turn it before it crashed into a
wall or make sure it was high enough to clear a lamp etc. The skills
required to operate both are similar.

As far as the tanks goes I'd love to get into those. I've seen some
really cool models out there, and I could imagine my son and I driving
them all over the place attacking and seeing who can score the most
hits. They are a great little hobby that's for sure.

Cheers!


On 1/6/12, Tom Randall  wrote:
> Hey Tom and all.
>
> Yes there seems to be quite a bit of interest in this which is pretty cool.
> Yes you are right that there are definitely some gaming aspects 
to operating

> these things.  As I think I mentioned in an earlier message one needs to
> have pretty good spatial understanding to operate these things especially
> things like the helis.  Also the type of hand/ear coordination that we
> develop for gaming is very useful for flying these models around or driving
> them as the case may be.
>
> As for engaging in mock battles my wife and I will occasionally 
drive my two

> 1/24 scale tanks around the house and see who can score the most hits with
> their infrared cannon.  She's got some sight so I usually get my 
head handed

> to me lol.
>
> Game on.
>
> Tom

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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

With new technology flying and driving are a lot easier now. Some of 
the helicopters fly them selfs almost.


At 03:43 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote:
Well I or rather my brother has happened to own from time to time rc 
cars and helecopters.
While the cars can take quite a bit of dammage unless they flip, the 
copters we eventually gave up on.
Inevitably  they would crash, and when they did there would be a 50% 
chance of them breaking.
And unless you spent a tone you wouldn't have all the steering 
avalible to you, to the point where controling things with any 
stability was quite a joke.

And just like the cars they chewed battery like no one's business.
The copters have all crashed long ago.
THe car is still round but may be sold one day since now my brother 
has  a job he has barely enough time to really relax never mind 
actually do time wasting things like playing with the car so who knows.



Heya Trouble and all.

Oh yeah I am aware of that, had a little nitro powered hovercraft 
way back in the day, back when you had to put the fuel in the tank 
and drip a little into the cylinder of the engine and crank the 
prop by hand and get your finger back real quick.  Wasn't quite 
fast enough a time or two, that was definitely no fun.  In fact I 
still have that little thing around here someplace.  Anyhow I 
imagine a turn is really more like a skid or a drift, these things 
are not going to turn like a car after all.  Do you have better 
luck running your hover  inside or outside?  I mainly like to run 
my stuff inside, easier to keep it clean and maintain it that's one 
reason why these new electric models are great but I have thought 
about getting something that could do a bit of both, that is why I 
am considering whether to get the cx2 or the mcx2 for my next 
heli.  The mcx2 is a micro strictly for indoor flying, where the 
cx2 is a bit bigger and can be flown either in a larger indoor area 
or outside.  We are in a condo complex here so have pretty much no 
yard but have quite a bit of cement walkways and asphalt parking 
lots which would probably be good to run hovercraft on as well as grass areas.


Laters.

Tom
On Jan 5, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Trouble wrote:

> Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt.
> The one I have is like the first one on list in size.
> One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original 
drifters when it comes to turning.

>


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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project

[Trouble]

Mine was big enough that out side was its space, but my mom's 12 by 
24 living room would do for testing.


At 03:11 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote:

Heya Trouble and all.

Oh yeah I am aware of that, had a little nitro powered hovercraft 
way back in the day, back when you had to put the fuel in the tank 
and drip a little into the cylinder of the engine and crank the prop 
by hand and get your finger back real quick.  Wasn't quite fast 
enough a time or two, that was definitely no fun.  In fact I still 
have that little thing around here someplace.  Anyhow I imagine a 
turn is really more like a skid or a drift, these things are not 
going to turn like a car after all.  Do you have better luck running 
your hover  inside or outside?  I mainly like to run my stuff 
inside, easier to keep it clean and maintain it that's one reason 
why these new electric models are great but I have thought about 
getting something that could do a bit of both, that is why I am 
considering whether to get the cx2 or the mcx2 for my next 
heli.  The mcx2 is a micro strictly for indoor flying, where the cx2 
is a bit bigger and can be flown either in a larger indoor area or 
outside.  We are in a condo complex here so have pretty much no yard 
but have quite a bit of cement walkways and asphalt parking lots 
which would probably be good to run hovercraft on as well as grass areas.


Laters.

Tom
On Jan 5, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Trouble wrote:

> Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt.
> The one I have is like the first one on list in size.
> One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original 
drifters when it comes to turning.

>


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Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshopproject

[Trouble]

This site has a few,
http://www.bananahobby.com/
Try google for more.

At 07:08 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote:

Hi,

I am very interested in the 1/24th scale tanks. Can you ttell me more about
them? Make? Model? Where to buy them?

Thanks in advance.

rich
- Original Message -
From: "Tom Randall" 
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:57 PM


Hey Tom and all.

Yes there seems to be quite a bit of interest in this which is pretty cool.
Yes you are right that there are definitely some gaming aspects to operating
these things.  As I think I mentioned in an earlier message one needs to
have pretty good spatial understanding to operate these things especially
things like the helis.  Also the type of hand/ear coordination that we
develop for gaming is very useful for flying these models around or driving
them as the case may be.

As for engaging in mock battles my wife and I will occasionally drive my two
1/24 scale tanks around the house and see who can score the most hits with
their infrared cannon.  She's got some sight so I usually get my head handed
to me lol.

Game on.

Tom


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Re: [Audyssey] Developer needs help making game accessible forthe blind!

[Trouble]

unless it states iPhone only. Then it will work on any IOS device.

At 03:16 PM 1/10/2012, you wrote:

It's only for the iphone?


Follow me on twitter


www.twitter.com/greenmellissa


- Original Message - From: "michael barnes" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Developer needs help making game accessible 
forthe blind!




Hey.
This game Oubliette is for the iPhone iPod iPad devices.
And it is free to play, except to play on the other levels you have 
to purchase them.
One level just cost a dollar and to have access to all levels it 
cost three dollars.


--
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.



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Re: [Audyssey] Problems with audiogames.net

[Trouble]

Works just fine here also. So if your having problems try deleting cookies.

At 06:17 AM 12/20/2012, you wrote:
Most odd, the main site seems completely fine on my end. no idea 
what is happening  there.


all the best,

Dark.
- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Problems with audiogames.net



Hi Michael,

The main site does appear to be down. I can access the forum alright,
but the main website doesn't load.

Cheers!

On 12/20/12, michael barnes  wrote:

Hello.
I have been trying to go to audiogames.net for the last two days, but
everytime I go to the site my browser doesn't load up.
I didn't know if something is wrong with the server or not.
Thanks for the help.

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Re: [Audyssey] British coinage

[Trouble]

See this is why a lot of programmers don't even want to touch games 
for the blind. The blind on this list pick them apart, moan and grown 
until the programmers changes it to meet there gripes.
Well what about the programmer? They put the game out there for you 
to play. It is not like there are a lot of games for the blind. Who 
cares what kind of denomination the game uses.The numbers are still 
the same and mean the same in the game. A game should be put out 
without blind community influence or maybe those bitching would like 
to do the programming? I can understand fixing bugs, but changing the 
game to fit your petty egos?


At 11:23 AM 12/27/2012, you wrote:

I disagree completely Ryan, broccoli is lovely, especially lightly crisped :D.

seriously, I actually would've preferd tones. My problem in Change 
reaction as I said isn't anything particularly against american 
things, indeed I'm quite happy to play poker in dollars for 
instance, it's just that the game is based on physical coins. You 
hear the sound of the coins fall, you here the amounts of the coins 
explode etc, you gain money by what you blow up etc.


that all seems implicit on knowing and being familiar in a far more 
physical sense with the actual coins, sort of the idea that the 
computer game of change reaction is a similation of what you could 
do with lots of piles of coins, several bombs and a teleporting machine :D.


Seriously, that is really my problem, it is as if the game were 
being played with totally abstract things with no physical meaning, 
and if that is the case, I'd prefer something more logical and 
consistant than these coins It that I have never seen.


Imagine  for example that I created a game similar to jim kitchin's 
skunk, called Blackpool tower. In this game, you rolled the dice to 
move higher and higher up the tower,  and the object was to get as 
high as  possible and then stick, sinse if you rolled too high you'd fall off.


now, everyone could play this in the abstract, however for myself 
and anyone else who has been to blackpool, and has   up the tower, 
which is close to 200 feet tall, this would have more of a meaning, 
as would the sound effects used for the game, seaside organs, 
perhaps the sounds of waves etc, sinse blackpool is a 
popular  resort town over here.


thus the game would have far more immediacy for people with that 
experience, than for everyone else, where as if I replaced blackpool 
tower with say a fantasy mage's tower, with sounds of  bats, evil 
spells etc, everyone has the same ability to imagine it for themselves.


#this is the difference for me, a level of physical   experience 
immediate to the game.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] BGT: any suggestion for a text editor.

[Trouble]

The problem with word pad is it saves with extra stuff in the 
document regardless of the extension. After all its just a very 
stripped down version of Word.


At 06:53 AM 1/5/2013, you wrote:
The file size limit was why I never used HJPad back when I was a 
JAWS user. And when I got started with BGT I just automatically used 
Notepad. I tried Wordpad once but it caused a bunch of problems 
whenever I tried to test my script, even though Philip Bennefall and 
others confirmed that I had the code exactly right.

On 1/4/2013 10:42 PM, Thomas Ward wrote:

Hi all,

Just a note about HJ Pad. Last I heard it has a file size limit, not
sure what it is, but if you intend to use it for programming you may
eventually run into a case where your source files will be larger than
the HJ Pad's buffer limits. :D

On 1/4/13, Jim Kitchen  wrote:

Hi Gabriel,

I do not use BGT because I still like Jaws and VB6, so I'm not sure how it
will work for you, but I very much like HJPad.  I use it to write Email etc.
  It has a spell checker and for some reason works very well with Jaws.
  You know that HJ stands for Henter Joyce the original Jaws company.

A friend of mine says that he has also used Text Pad for writing code.  It
can even run the code right in the editor.  Which is another reason that I
like the VB6 IDE.

Good luck.

BFN

  Jim

I like Visual Basic 6.0 because I can not C.

j...@kitchensinc.net
http://www.kitchensinc.net
(440) 286-6920
Chardon Ohio USA
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Re: [Audyssey] accessibility costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user

[Trouble]

I have ben saying that for a few years. Apple 
don't charge higher for its accessibility. But 
makes it available if you need it or not. There 
is no need for our computers to cost around 
$1000, and the screen reader the same if not 
more. Any time its a device for those with 
disabilities the price is through the roof. Even 
though the cost to make devices talk cost less 
than $1. And they say those with disabilities is 
a minority market? Guess that is why there are as 
many eye doctors as there are general 
practitioners. nope they feed us the lie and the 
community won't change it or even try. It takes a 
company like Apple to say the government wanted 
our products accessible for schools. And they 
didn't see a need to charge for it even though 
they knew not many disabled are main streamed into those schools.


At 11:09 PM 1/6/2013, you wrote:
Another thing about the iPhones is that they 
will work for a visually impaired person right 
out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3 
times in succession.  The built-in screen 
reader, called "Voice-Over", is now active.  And 
here's a very, very, very important factor:  The 
cost of this fully accessible device is the same 
whether you are sighted or totally blind.  This 
is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; 
accessibility at the same price as for the sighted.


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "Draconis 
Entertainment" 

To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs,as 
usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user




I don't usually chime in on these threads, but 
as an iPHone user and developer, I wanted to make a few points briefly.


If you just want a phone, not a smart phone, 
then an Android phone might be the more cost 
effective option…but if you want to use your 
phone…as most people do…as a smart phone, then 
an Android phone is a terrible solution, at 
present,  for a visually impaired person.


The iPhone has a far greater number of higher 
quality apps with accessibility, and you will 
get far more out of your phone than you can hope 
to do so, at least at present, with the 
half-baked access available for Android. This 
will hopefully change in the future, but at 
present access on Android phone's cannot hold a candle to the iPhone.


Also, the iPhone 5, as Charles pointed out, has 
a larger screen, but cost-wise, you also have 
the options of the iPhone 4S for $99, or the 
iPhone 4 for free with a two year contract in 
the US and many other countries. Both of those 
devices are excellent, especially for the price.


Accessibility aside, compatibility across 
different Android devices is sketchy at best, 
and the Android marketplace is rattled with malware that one must contend with.


Also, most Android phones can not be updated to 
the latest software. Compare this to the iPhone 
3GS, released with VoiceOver in 2009, which can 
run iOS 6, the current version of the operating 
system. I don't believe there are *any* Android 
phones released in 2009 that can run Jelly Bean. 
Your cost-effectiveness goes out the window if 
you want to stay current with the software. 
You'll be needing a new phone every few months to a year.


Hopefully, in time, these problem areas, 
including accessibility, will be ironed out on 
Android, but it is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future.


The fact that Android is a choice at all is 
good. Competition is always a good thing, but I 
think that there are a lot of factors to 
consider, especially as visually impaired users, here.


Just my two cents.



- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user



Hi Dark,

True enough. It all sounds good. The only problem for me is that the
Apple iPhone 5 costs more than double the cost of a Google Nexus 4,
and one thing I do not like about the iPhone is that the touchscreen
is very small. The Nexus 4 has nearly double the room to move your
fingers around which I find much more suited to my needs.

So while the Apple iPhone seems to be the better option for games an
Android solution like the Nexus 4 is the more cost effective solution
for the VI user. I've had a bit of experience with my wife's Samsung
Galaxy S3, and I find the accessibility on Ice Cream Sandwich
acceptable for a VI user for handling the basics of web browsing with
Firefox, managing contacts, doing texting, etc. I hear the Nexus 4,
which comes with Jellybean 4.2, is even better yet so I'm strongly
thinking of going for an Android phone just to save on the initial
investment costs of an iPhone.


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Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user

[Trouble]

yes, phone contracts do make them cheaper.

At 11:11 PM 1/6/2013, you wrote:

Hi Thomas,
I think if you get a contract then the phone is a lot cheaper. For 
example I got my iPhone 4s when it came out for like $200 or so, and 
it's a 16 gig. if you really wanted lots of music you may want the 
32 gig or so, but even that was only like $300. In my case, however, 
I really only use my phone for apps, so only needed the 16 gig.

Hth,
-Michael.


-Original Message- From: Thomas Ward
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 10:05 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user

Hi Dark,

Yeah, well the cost is the big sticking point for me. personally.
Tonight my wife and I were out at Wal-Mart getting a few items so I
decided to look at the phones Verison had in their store and I can't
see putting down $500 USD down on an iPhone 5 when I can get an Asuse
Nexus 4 running Jellybean 4.2 for $238 which is less than half the
cost with about the same features. Actually, as a software developer
the Nexus has one advantage over the iPhone and that is that Droid OS
is an open system meaning I can develop my own apps from my Windows PC
and install them on my phone without having to purchase an Apple Mac,
use their development kit for iOS, register my app with the Apple
store, and all that other business just to write games and other apps
for my smart phone. Google's Droid OS is basically the way to go for
someone wanting to develop quick and inexpensive apps for a smart
phone without having to sell your soul to Apple to write software for
their proprietary devices.

On 1/6/13, dark  wrote:

Hi tom.

Well as you know games were part of the reason I bought an Iphone 5 in the
first place and I got a very good deal from my phone company. I don't have
any problem with the screen size personally for brousing, texting etc, so
I'd recommend it myself albeit that it does cost.

Beware the grue!

Dark.


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Re: [Audyssey] accessibility costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user

[Trouble]

Now ask them just how many of the droid apps are useable. From the 
android list I see most are using third party apps, because what 
comes on the phones and tablets are not accessible. What you get on 
IOS devices is useable.


At 11:26 PM 1/6/2013, you wrote:

Hi Charles,

O.K. I know that many blind users are saying that Apple iOS  is better
than Google's Droid OS, and that may be true, but I have heard from
people who have Nexus 4's that access on Jellybean is almost as good
as iOS. So when you say "the iPhone is the most accessible" have you
actually done a direct comparison with a new Droid phone running
Jellybean or are basing your opinion against an older moddle like the
Samsung Galaxy S3 which is still running Ice Cream Sandwich?

I guess what I want to say is that are you speaking from personal
experience or basing it on old information etc. I know a lot of iPhone
users who have said Apple iOS and VO are much better than Droid OS and
Talkback, but when I press them further for details it turns out they
tried a phone running an older version of Talkback and Droid OS, or it
was one that hasn't had all the accessible apps installed and ended up
with a less than perfect experience. So basically I'd like to talk to
someone who has personal experience with both phones and has a more or
less neutral opinion on the subject rather than just giving me the
party line that Apple iPhones are better, and end of discussion. Fact
of the matter is I spent a bit of time talking to a Verison rep
tonight, got to look at the Droid phones they had in the store, and
got to try Jellybean out with Talkback and discovered accessibility
was vastly improved over my wife's Samsong Galaxy S3, and based on
that personal experience I would personally say a Droid phone running
Jellybean is probably a good alternative to Apple iOS for a VI user.
Although, my hands on experience is rather limited.

So other than the lack of games is there anything major I won't get
with a Droid phone that I could get with an Apple iPhone. I want to
know if I am going to put out $500 or $600 for a new phone I better
get something pretty major in exchange for paying double, almost
triple, the cost of a Nexus which I could have for $238.

On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard  wrote:
> The iPhone 5 is slightly larger than the previous iPhones.  From my
> experiences with touch screens, the iPhone is the most accessible and, due
> to the fact that more apps are accessible as well, we get what we pay for.
>
> ---
> Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.

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Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone games for Voiceover user

[Trouble]

Talkback is free and always has ben free. There is a app that is 
suppose to help teach you talkback, but it is similar to what already 
comes on the phone and that costs. But see that is more people saying 
you have to buy our teaching app to learn your device or you won't 
know what to do. The android list called it trash and meant it 
falling a close second to anything mobilspeak came up with.


At 03:38 AM 1/7/2013, you wrote:

I have to say I disagree about talkback tom.  I looked into this a while
back and over here at least it seems you have to shell out an extra 150
dollars just for talkback...

-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: 07 January 2013 04:34
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] accessability costs, as usual - Re: Good iPhone
games for Voiceover user

Hi Charles,

Good point, but it doesn't really cost you anything extra to get an
Android phone running Talkback either. The Android phones my wife and
I looked at tonight running Jellybean had Talk back on them, and all I
needed help with was setting up Talkback so it doesn't cost anything
extra to get an accessible Android phone. However, the one key setup
of the accessibility on an iPhone is definitely a plus in its favor to
consider.

On 1/6/13, Charles Rivard  wrote:
> Another thing about the iPhones is that they will work for a visually
> impaired person right out of the box by quickly pressing one button 3
times
>
> in succession.  The built-in screen reader, called "Voice-Over", is now
> active.  And here's a very, very, very important factor:  The cost of this
> fully accessible device is the same whether you are sighted or totally
> blind.  This is another reason that I am an iPhone fan; accessibility at
the
>
> same price as for the sighted.
>
> ---
> Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.

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Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions

[Trouble]

The only thing you can compare between mainstream and VI games is 
game play. The manufacturing of games is not even comparative because 
they are major companies with more than one type of income.


At 10:50 PM 1/18/2013, you wrote:

Hi,
You have to ask yourself, thogh, how many sighted people were skeptical
enough not to buy it in coparison to the number who do. Sure, companies like
Sony make more than a tidy profit for such games, but you have to consider
the relative numbers. Comparing everything in the audiogames market to the
mainstream market just does not always work.

Best Regards,
Hayden


-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Kai
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 8:01 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions

Greetings.

While I definitely understand and can appreciate the value of a demo,
remember that tons of mainstream games never have demos. they're sold on
physical media, typically cost upwards of 50 dollars, and yet, they're
making a killing in profits. I think the audio gaming community's just been
spoiled by demos in the past, so can'tt countance the idea of trying a game
on pure faith based off of trailers and word of mouth.

I buy a lot of games for my Playstation, and have never complained that
there wasn't a playable demo for me to gauge its effectiveness. Sure,
sometimes you find games that cost way more than they deserve, or that
completely fail to impress altogether, but this is the deal with products
all across the board. Ever bought a pie to discover you hated the filling?
Imagine the cost of food if stores were required to have samples of every
item you wanted to purchase.

Myself, I'd rather the developer devote fully to making the product, rather
than forcing him to make a product, plus a crippled offshoot.

Kai

- Original Message -
From: "Draconis Entertainment" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions


> Hello all,
>
> We really appreciate all the feedback, and we will continue to debate this

> internally leading up to the Windows release of ChangeReaction. Nothing
> has been definitively decided, as I've said once or twice now. *wink*
>
> There are good points on both sides of the debate, and we will do our best

> to make things work out for everyone.
>
> And, frankly, I'm astonished that a couple of people here actually would
> rather pay $30 for a $10 title, just to have a demo. When I asked that
> question, it was intended rhetorically. I'm not sure what to make of the
> answers.
>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] The Dragon Answers Questions

[Trouble]

If you want a demo. Then just make one level like GMA did and then 
when bought you get the whole game. When you put the key into the 
demo it downloads the rest to your computer. you can't get the 
download any other way and that could be locked to that computers 
internal devices. This would also let you have more than one computer 
hooked to that key, because those downloads could be logged. More 
than 2 or 3 downloads per key. That would cut down on a lot of pirating.



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Re: [Audyssey] restoring a storm8 ID on the iOS devices?

[Trouble]

If its not in the game it self. Tan try looking in the settings for 
the phone, because IOS devices have extra settings for programs along 
with the phone settings.
If that don't work. Then you will have to use there manual way from 
the web site and let them transfer the account on there end.


At 12:30 AM 1/23/2013, you wrote:

Hi,
I'm attempting to transfer my storm8 account from my iPhone 3gs to 
my 4s. However, following storm8's website guide isn't helping. I 
can't find the settings tab no matter how hard I try on either device.


Has anyone had any luck with this?

thanks
Tyler

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[Audyssey] question for mods

[Trouble]

You forgot to change the subject, and they did say something about 
this last time.


At 06:39 PM 3/11/2013, you wrote:
Do you actually get permission from the mods to post all of these 
off topic spelling messages? They're getting rather annoying.


--
From: "Charles Rivard" 
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 01:42 PM
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Update on Inquisitor on the computer.


iPhone!  Note the punctuation.

---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "Mich" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Update on Inquisitor on the computer.


Hi what about for those of us who have the game for the iphone? 
will there be a update to the game for that as well? from Mich.

- Original Message - From: "michael barnes" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 1:04 PM
Subject: [Audyssey] Update on Inquisitor on the computer.



Hello.
To all who have the Inquisitor for PC, Mac the developer will be 
sending an update to the game to fix a couple of bugs.

One of them is the issue where you get to the town and can't go no further.

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Re: [Audyssey] Found a new iPhone game

[Trouble]

Who cares! Don't like it use delete key and move on with life!

At 04:00 PM 3/12/2013, you wrote:
I'm not up tight at all.  It's just that, to me, you can easily hear 
the difference between iphone and iPhone if you only take a little 
time to proofread your messages, and so many blind people don't do 
it.  And it makes you look stupid if you keep writing it as 
iphone.  My efforts are to stop sighted people from having one more 
reason to stereotype blind people as uneducated based on our 
communication skills or lack thereof.


---
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- Original Message - From: "MamaPeach" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Found a new iPhone game



Why are you so uptight?

-Original Message- From: Charles Rivard
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:42 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Found a new iPhone game

It's iPhone, as previously stated.  Why do you continue to make the same
error?

---
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- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Found a new iPhone game


yeah hopefully this stuff will make it to android soon as people 
seem to be pusing me to buy android and frankly it seems all the 
buz for the blind is on the iphone.


At 03:42 AM 3/13/2013, you wrote:

I'm actually quite impressed that so many iPhone products are
encouraging our sighted peers to explore the world of audiogaming.

Game audio is a very important part of game development right now,
much more than it has ever been, because we are pushing the limits of
graphical development.
Game audio is the only way to really enhance the game very much, which
is why I wish I could start that organization or maybe get involved
with another organization that would let me put forward ideas to
developers on behalf of everyone that wants to see mainstream games
made more accessible.

Signed:
Dakotah Rickard

On 3/9/13, Ken The PionEar  wrote:
> I found a new iPhone game today. Actually, it's been on the 
app store > since
> 2011, but it 's news to me. The game is called Swing Tennis, 
by Head > First
> Communications. Where Lolrific tennis and Blindfold tennis 
fall short, > this

> picks up the slack. I hav en't figured it all out yet, which is why I
> haven't posted to Applevis, but...
> First, you can play over Game Center. No more being limited to a WiFi
> connection for a good game of audio tennis.
> Second, there are three difficulty levels, and easy is actually a bit
> difficult.
> Third, though it's strictly timing based like other audio 
tennis apps > for
> the iPhone, its rules are stricter--a lot stricter, so you 
have to > have

> split-second timing.
> Fourth, both you and your opponent have power-ups you can use. 
Don't > get
> comfortable, because as soon as you think you've got the 
rhythm down, > in
> comes a fast ball. I haven't exactly figured out how to use 
the > power-ups

> and various swings yet.
> Fifth, each level has nine computer opponents on single 
player, each > with

> different skills and strategies.
> Sixth, the game allows you to chat with your opponent. Kind 
of > interesting,

> though you have to pause the game to do it.
> The game play itself is simple. Just swing your iPhone like a
tennis racket.
> The weird thing is that you have to be touching your screen to do
this, with
> Voiceover off. Even the lightest movement might be construed 
as a > swing, so
> be careful! I suspect that since it's an audio game for the 
sighted, > not
> tailored for the blind, there may be special places to touch 
if you > want
> certain swings, power-ups and so on. I don't think this will 
be too > hard to
> learn however. Yes, sighted people are learning about audio 
games at > last.

> Now if we can just convince them to make them accessible...
> Speaking of accessibility, the tutorial isn't accessible at 
all, and > the
> game starts with a bunch of unlabeled buttons. All of these, 
save one, > are
> dimmed, and the undimmed one is the one to click each time. It 
takes > about

> three minutes of clicking around to get through the tutorial, but once
> you're past that everything's accessible except whatever might 
be on > the

> screen during actual game play. I'll try to get help with that aspect
> tonight and post about what I find.
> The game also has an extra game to unlock, called ball bounce, 
but > this,

> sadly, is inaccessible. However, the game is definitely worth the
$.99 price
> tag.
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> http://www.mail-archive.c

Re: [Audyssey] Found a new iPhone game

[Trouble]

Ever think its done just to blank you off? After all your pretty 
funny to laugh at when making a fool of yourself on a petty spelling issue..


At 01:42 PM 3/12/2013, you wrote:
It's iPhone, as previously stated.  Why do you continue to make the 
same error?


---
Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second.
- Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Found a new iPhone game


yeah hopefully this stuff will make it to android soon as people 
seem to be pusing me to buy android and frankly it seems all the 
buz for the blind is on the iphone.


At 03:42 AM 3/13/2013, you wrote:

I'm actually quite impressed that so many iPhone products are
encouraging our sighted peers to explore the world of audiogaming.

Game audio is a very important part of game development right now,
much more than it has ever been, because we are pushing the limits of
graphical development.
Game audio is the only way to really enhance the game very much, which
is why I wish I could start that organization or maybe get involved
with another organization that would let me put forward ideas to
developers on behalf of everyone that wants to see mainstream games
made more accessible.

Signed:
Dakotah Rickard

On 3/9/13, Ken The PionEar  wrote:
> I found a new iPhone game today. Actually, it's been on the app 
store > since
> 2011, but it 's news to me. The game is called Swing Tennis, by 
Head > First
> Communications. Where Lolrific tennis and Blindfold tennis fall 
short, > this

> picks up the slack. I hav en't figured it all out yet, which is why I
> haven't posted to Applevis, but...
> First, you can play over Game Center. No more being limited to a WiFi
> connection for a good game of audio tennis.
> Second, there are three difficulty levels, and easy is actually a bit
> difficult.
> Third, though it's strictly timing based like other audio 
tennis apps > for

> the iPhone, its rules are stricter--a lot stricter, so you have to have
> split-second timing.
> Fourth, both you and your opponent have power-ups you can use. 
Don't > get
> comfortable, because as soon as you think you've got the rhythm 
down, > in
> comes a fast ball. I haven't exactly figured out how to use 
the > power-ups

> and various swings yet.
> Fifth, each level has nine computer opponents on single player, 
each > with

> different skills and strategies.
> Sixth, the game allows you to chat with your opponent. Kind 
of > interesting,

> though you have to pause the game to do it.
> The game play itself is simple. Just swing your iPhone like a
tennis racket.
> The weird thing is that you have to be touching your screen to do
this, with
> Voiceover off. Even the lightest movement might be construed as 
a > swing, so
> be careful! I suspect that since it's an audio game for the 
sighted, > not
> tailored for the blind, there may be special places to touch if 
you > want
> certain swings, power-ups and so on. I don't think this will be 
too > hard to
> learn however. Yes, sighted people are learning about audio 
games at > last.

> Now if we can just convince them to make them accessible...
> Speaking of accessibility, the tutorial isn't accessible at 
all, and > the
> game starts with a bunch of unlabeled buttons. All of these, 
save one, > are
> dimmed, and the undimmed one is the one to click each time. It 
takes > about

> three minutes of clicking around to get through the tutorial, but once
> you're past that everything's accessible except whatever might 
be on > the

> screen during actual game play. I'll try to get help with that aspect
> tonight and post about what I find.
> The game also has an extra game to unlock, called ball bounce, 
but > this,

> sadly, is inaccessible. However, the game is definitely worth the
$.99 price
> tag.
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
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> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
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Yo

Re: [Audyssey] New Playable Game for iPhone

[Trouble]

You can do a 3 finger triple tap or hit home button 3 times.

At 12:13 PM 3/21/2013, you wrote:

How do you turn off voice over on the eye phone?

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Re: [Audyssey] New Playable Game for iPhone

[Trouble]

yes.

At 12:22 PM 3/21/2013, you wrote:

Do you hit home three times to turn on voice over also?

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Re: [Audyssey] can PC users play I games?

[Trouble]

Only if there is a version for the PC, because there is no Apple emulator.

At 01:01 PM 3/21/2013, you wrote:
I'm sure someone has asked this before, but with the influx of I 
games (I phone, I pad, I pad games), can a PC user  play these games 
on a pc with emulators or what not?


Thanks

Keith

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Re: [Audyssey] catch 22 - Re: Inquisitor, Ios or pc?

[Trouble]

The sighted games all come with install guides, because they have to 
make sure they have enough graphics to run the game. Some of the 
newer games out there require dual video cards or they won't even install.


At 01:39 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:

Hi Charlse.

Yes, users guides including installation instructions always seems 
amusing to me too, though I imagine this comes from the old dos days 
in which you would! always have to read how to install the game 
before doing so.


Beware the grue!

Dark.

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Re: [Audyssey] Need help with making a partician

[Trouble]

Try google so you get it right on that conversion command.


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Re: [Audyssey] Moderator message - Inquiry From Popular Mechanics

[Trouble]

You sound like a NFB member Shawn? They think almost anything for the 
blind is crap.


At 06:55 PM 3/30/2013, you wrote:

why would you even want to bother with the windows games?
Lets see most of them are card games and  a chess game 3d pinball 
and some other junk.

Sadly these are just crappy games from ms which come with the os.
We have most of those games and unlike the ms ones they are 
accessable and probably not crap.

spoonbil has soliteer in various formats as well as other stuff.
jim kitchen has more stuff.
we have both the quentin c and rs games clients doing card games.
we have esp pinbal and the extreem version, we have mine sweeper 
both by the makers of night of parasite, and gma.

we have blindadrenaline we have all in play.
We have basically all ms games that were preinstalled on windows, 
even the sighted think of them as crap, basic and simple and no one 
really plays them.
my point, we have enough games we have made our selves that are 
superior to the ones windows has even the oldest games by jim 
kitchen are superior.


At 04:11 AM 3/31/2013, you wrote:
I have requested that Freedom Scientific do some work on getting 
the games that come with Windows accessible.  I have also contacted 
Microsoft on this so that they and FS might work together.  I hate 
the attitude of FS.  They, in no uncertain terms, let me know that 
jaws, after all, stands for "Job! access! with speech".  I asked 
them how many of their customers use their computers at home?  And 
how many of those computers already have the Windows games 
installed?  And if they knew how many people play those 
games?  They are not at all interested in the project.  Between 
organizations like this, and rehab, I get furiously disgusted.


--
If guns kill people, writing implements cause grammatical and 
spelling errors!

- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Moderator message - Inquiry From Popular Mechanics



Hi Charles,

Well, we can certainly hope. As you say Popular Mechanics is
redistributed via NLS and perhaps more blind and visually impaired
people will here about us. However, there is a bigger hope that
mainstream game developers will take notice of a growing community of
blind people who are looking fore more and more accessible games. If
nothing else I think people who know someone who is blind will go
online and give them some games to play.

It amazes me how many blind people who are out there who have
computers and are still in the dark when it comes to computer games. I
suppose part can be blamed on the rehab centers which buy them, show
them Jaws, and don't mention there are games and things to do, or even
worse tell them specifically that the system is to be used for work
and not play.

Case in point. A few years ago I was contacted by a blind woman in my
area who does medical transcription at the hospital. Well, she has a
computer, and she was just looking for a few simple games like Uno,
Solitare, Hearts, etc and didn't have any idea that the Spoonbill and
Jim Kitchen games existed. I installed them on her home machine, for
which she was greatful, but I didn't do anything the local BSVI rehab
tech ould have done when he gave it to her to begin with. All because
rehab tends to see computers simply as tools for work rather than the
multipurpose device it is.

Anyway, my hope is that more people will hear about us and will join
in the fun.  They need more resources than rehab centers that aren't
too interested in making their clients aware of games and other things
to do besides running Word, Powerpoint, Outlook, and Jaws.

Cheers!

On 3/30/13, Charles Rivard  wrote:
Right.  I totally understand why she was on the list for a short 
time rather


than becoming a subscriber.  One thought I do have, though, is this:
Popular Mechanics is produced for the Library of Congress Talking Book
program.  I'm thinking that some blind readers might not know that such
games exist, and they will check this out.  Also, parents, relatives and
friends of potential gamers might check into it for their blind family
members or friends because of this article.  We can always hope, right?

--
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Re: [Audyssey] LookTel VoiceOver Tutorial Audio Games -was- Re: introduction

[Trouble]

There is also a interview of this on blind bargains which is nicely done.

At 03:47 PM 3/30/2013, you wrote:

Just sending this again with a more apropos subject line. -Apologies!

Smiles,

Cara :)

Lori and list, on the iOS Ap Store there is a 
free tutorial app from LookTel which not only 
gradually introduces iOS gestures at your own 
pace but also makes this fun by using games to do so.


The first (currently available) portion of the 
tutorial has two simple games in it and covers several iOS gestures:


• single tap

• double tap

• split tap

• flick left and right (for navigation)

• flick up and down

• the rotor gesture

• the two-finger double tap

the two games are a very simple Basketball game 
and a game which we just call Safe.


IN the Basketball game, the player flicks down, 
anywhere on the screen to dribble the basketball 
and then flicks up to shoot it.


The more you dribble, the more likely you are to 
make a basket. Make five baskets and you win! :)


The second game finds you opening a Safe to retrieve your fortune!

YOu touch two fingers to the screen and turn 
your hand as if turning a large knob. This turns 
the dial on the safe's combination lock and 
numbers are announced as you pass them. A tone 
plays when you pass each correct number for the combination.


When you hear the tone, you flick up or down to 
enter that number into the lock and a new number 
is then available for you to find. Once you 
enter three correct numbers, the safe opens and your fortune awaits! :)


the second installment of the VoiceOver tutorial 
which is now in development, will have a more 
immersive game. I won't give away the details 
but suffice it to say that the game experiences 
will gradually become more and more like actual 
audio game experiences while helping both 
beginning and advanced iOS users to easily 
become very comfortable with iOS VoiceOver 
gestures in really cool and fun ways!!!


For those who are curious, here is the link to VO Tutorial in the App Store.

LookTel VoiceOver Tutorial by IPPLEX
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/looktel-voiceover-tutorial/id598788231?mt=8

Thanks and have a lovely weekend and holiday!

Smiles,

Cara :)
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On Mar 30, 2013, at 8:31 AM, Lori Duncan  wrote:

Hi Kriss, there are quite a few games for the 
iphone, but I really struggle with touch 
screnes, so mainly stick to the computer.



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Re: [Audyssey] Looktel don't understand

[Trouble]

Just search for looktel in the ap store and all they have in there 
will show. Its IOS only.


At 01:45 PM 4/1/2013, you wrote:

Hi Everyone,
One thing I don't understand is the looktel tutorial
If it is only available as a iPhone download or is it available on pc too.
If it is only an iPhone download and can only be used on iPhone can someone
please send me a step by step download of this application. Thank you all
very much.
Please feel free to email me at
scull...@optonline.net
Regards,
Steve Cullen


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Re: [Audyssey] Anymore RPG games?

[Trouble]

You can use firefox with webvisum to read that captures.

At 03:56 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote:

i am downloading the client for Alter Aeon now.
Does anyone know how to get in touch with the developer of the 
Puppet nIghtmares game?

i need help creating an account.
i am hearing impaired and am not able to hear the captures correctly.
If i were to send you the information i would like to use for a 
cheractor name, user name,a nd password, could someone create my 
account for me?

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Re: [Audyssey] captcha

[Trouble]

Don't count on google changing, because as far as they are concerned 
they already have a accessible capcha. The only way they will change 
is by the community coming together and proving them wrong. And you 
won't get help from any org on this either.



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Re: [Audyssey] unable to run Rail Racer Demo on windows8

[Trouble]

Its just a good example why software needs to keep up with the latest ops.

At 09:00 AM 4/12/2013, you wrote:

Hi Dallas,

Thank you for that information. I wasn't aware .NET 1.1 will not run
on Win 8. I hadn't had any need to try it myself since all of my .NET
development uses 3.5 and 4.0 which is compatible with .NET 4.0 which
comes with Windows 8. I'll keep this information in mind, and I'm glad
to know Che is now working with newer libs and tools.

Cheers!

On 4/11/13, Dallas O'Brien  wrote:
> hi, this is the problem. 1.1 is not designed to run on 8. in fact, if
> you try installing it, it comes up with errors.
> however, che is in fact upgrading it to work in windows 8 and 7. so
> i'd imagine he has moved up to newer version, or perhaps even gone a
> different way around it. not to sure. but i am looking forwards to
> finding out, cause i miss RR.
> regards
> dallas
>

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Re: [Audyssey] question if we are able to bye the games with out the other softwair?

[Trouble]

Its a waste no matter how you look at it.

At 07:06 AM 4/18/2013, you wrote:

i'd just get your keys now if i were you and not waste the money

On 18 Apr 2013, at 12:05, Mich  wrote:

> Hi are we able to get copies of just the 
games and not the other software? like say I 
only wanted to perches trupinum,  trupinum 2 
and hunter. would I be able to just perches 
those games with out the other software? and ps 
will these games run on windows xp sp 3 and 
also under windows 7 each 32 bit? many thanks. from Mich.
> - Original Message - From: "Ibrahim 
Gucukoglu" 

> To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] BlindSoftware.com Is Closing
>
>
> Hi Everyone.
>
> I will be happy to generate keys for those who purchased BSC games in the
> past, also those who would like copies of the 
games I will also be obliging.

> I will ask a flat fee of $20, £15 per set of keys, so all you'd need to do
> is send me the games you were interested in and the product ID, make your
> payment via PayPal and I'll send you the unlock code in return.  This will
> continue well after the closing date of Blind software.com and hopefully
> make it a viable cheaper alternative to those who cant afford the $75.
>
> All the best, Ibrahim.
>
> -Original Message- From: shaun everiss
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2013 3:30 AM
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] BlindSoftware.com Is Closing
>
> I don't have the space for a server but I may buy the games and other
> things part of me thinks there should be a cast or something with
> messages on how justin has changed lives industry for games, etc and
> have it emailed to him or something, unfortunately due to issues some
> personal ones I won't be able to make the 15 may deadline.
>
> At 04:44 AM 4/18/2013, you wrote:
>> here's what I just posted in the form of an 
audioboo, which I think I should throw out here 
as well... I don't have the $75 myself. The BSC 
games, I think, were a big part of what made 
audiogames are today, and that we should 
preserve them for newcomers to the audiogame 
idea and let those that legally bought the 
games be able to play them on new computers 
they might own. SO I think we should all throw 
something like $5 and eventually I think we can 
get the $75 we need. Then someone with the 
server space can host everything. Now I realise 
this isn't exactly right and why people didn't 
do this with, say, the NVDA vocalizer driver 
which is still available for purchase, but 
considering all of these games are just going 
to disappear completely in mid May I seriously 
think we should do this. It does look like no 
one I know currently has the money to do this 
on his/her own, and if no one takes advantage 
of the offer, the games will just disappear. 
And even though there are cracks for the newer 
games (might as well admit it since bs will 
close), the older editions of pipe and troup, 
and the word games don't have one, neither does 
the software so that will just leave them unplayable for many people.

>>
>> On 2013-04-17 18:18, Thomas Ward wrote:
>>> Hi Bryan,
>>>
>>> I know. I don't have the $75 right now or I would buy it and then
>>> share the key generator with everyone who can't afford it so that we
>>> could keep those games alive. Hopefully someone somewhere will share
>>> the key gen so those of us who can't whip out the $75 in the next
>>> month can continue to play Pipe and troopenum without letting them go
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> On 4/17/13, Bryan Peterson  wrote:
 Especially since not everybody wo owns 
those games will be able to pay 75
 dollars for the unlock code geerator. 
Guess I won't be putting those gaes on


 my new computer, whenever it is that I end up getting one. Disappointing
 since they were pretty much the first 
audio games I ever played and evennow


 I enjoy them.

>>> ---
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to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.

>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>>> If you have any questions or concerns 
regarding the management of the list,

>>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> ---
> Game

Re: [Audyssey] BSC Games. Who will own them?

[Trouble]

You might want to ask Tom about that, because he got nailed on copy 
right. Had to change the name on a game because even though not in 
current use, it was still copy written.


At 05:53 PM 4/18/2013, you wrote:
To those of you who have gotten games from BSC Games:  Read the 
license agreement.  Who owns these products?  Question:  After their 
doors close, who will own them?  We have purchased the right to use 
what BSC still retains the ownership of.  I'm thinking, maybe 
wrongly, that BSC will be abandoning their software.  If, as Justin 
has said, that the doors are closing "for ever", I would think that 
after, and not before, that time, the sharing of keys for those 
abandoned products, as well as those abandoned products themselves, 
would be OK.  However, the selling of such products and keys would 
not be legal.  They would become freeware.  This is only speculation 
on the part of someone who is by no means a "legal eagle".


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Re: [Audyssey] BSC Games shutting down, and reactions.

[Trouble]

The Boston situation? Are you for real?

At 05:32 PM 4/20/2013, you wrote:

I think we might have a bigger problem on our hands.
I read in the audiogames.net forum that some 
people actually bought this new package and got 
a partially strange order confirmation mail, but 
no further messages in which the key generator is included or linked to.
And since the current blindsoftware.com site 
doesn't host the old free BSC titles which are 
part of that bonus offer except 15 Numbers, we might have found a problem.
Does anyone actually have that key generator 
already or more important, does anyone know if 
the Boston situation could have messed up things 
for Justin or his company or the service SWREG 
which is used for actually ordering that package?


- Original Message - From: "Cara Quinn" 
To: "Gamers Discussion list" 
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] BSC Games shutting down, and reactions.


Actually you're not forced to buy anything.

Don't want it? -Just don't buy it. :)

Nobody's forcing you to do anything.

Sorry for being so glib, and I definitely do 
understand people's worry about the future of 
these games that mean a lot. -but please, can we 
kind of turn this ship around a bit and be constructive even if we disagree?


There's still a month left before the company 
goes away. Surely we can come up with some 
situation so that this legacy can be at the very 
least preserved, or better still, be kept alive.


I'm waiting for a note back. Perhaps more of us 
might want to approach Justin or maybe we could 
suggest the idea of making the support of these games a community-run project.


Either way, we do have time and options…

Thanks,

Cara :)
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Re: [Audyssey] OT: rant about jobs: was Re: Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSC Games

[Trouble]

Well the more corrupt you are with the US government. The more you 
get. Even though our forefathers did it the honest way. A corrupt 
government sees that as not needing help for anything. I see more 
people filling jobs the blind can do with ease. While the blind get 
told the job is not accessible for them to do. I had one real good 
job working in the tech field. They tried to make the software I used 
not accessible just so they could remove me and it worked. When jaws 
scripts won't work and more graphics come into play you lose every 
time. See they put those graphics there so people not knowing 
anything about computer systems can just click on the picture of the 
problem and get solution. That system cuts down on training. So most 
of those techs you call for help only know the pictures in front of 
them and not anything about computers or the system your having problems with.


At 02:34 AM 4/24/2013, you wrote:
This post implies that blind people are lazy and not looking. I 
recently put up my resume at every spa, beauty salon, doctor's 
office, and so on that was in the area. I even went to a few salons. 
One hair stylist actually had heard of me, and said she heard I was 
the best massage therapist around. I was flattered and figured i'd 
get the job for sure, but did I? No. Not even a callback explaining why.
So what am I going to do, take all my excess money and sue for 
sexual discrimination? After all, nobody wants a man touching their 
bodies. The guys want women, and the women want women. Or should I 
sue for blindness discrimination? I don't think I can 
satisfactorally prove either case beyond the shadow of a doubt.
My point is that there are blind folks looking for jobs and not 
finding. Yeah, it's easier to stay on SSI, but is it desirable? Is 
it conscionable? Are we getting fat and rich on the system? Absolutely not.

Check out my games at
www.ThePionEar.net
and my music, and that of my band, at
www.ThePionEar.net/BlindLabyrinth.html .
If you want to reach me, you can call 419-744-0517, friend me on 
Facebook, (KenWDowney,) or write me at kenwdow...@me.com .

Crazy Ken
- Original Message - From: "Ryan Strunk" 
To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" 
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement 
About BSC Games




Tom,
I agree with 95% of your post below. Developing games isn't a walk in the
park, financial or otherwise. But there is one comment you made that I want
to underscore.
"Developing high quality games costs lots of money. Far more money than the
average blind American collects from SSI checks each month."
Absolutely true, which is a great incentive for blind people to get jobs.
Ryan

-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 2:47 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSC Games


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Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About BSCGames

[Trouble]

They are not in violation, because of what is called high risk 
insurance. That is what all blind are labeled. So if that store 
determines you a high risk in moving around in there store. Then they 
don't have to tell you anything except leave. You need to read that 
ADA crap better, because it really wasn't written for those with 
disabilities but for those without.


At 10:12 PM 4/23/2013, you wrote:

Bryan,
I don't want to get too far afield, but a store refusing to help you shop is
in direct violation of the ADA. I'm not saying that a lawsuit is the best or
even a good option, but I can understand their anger.
As for games, the sighted public has just as much of an entitlement complex.
We just don't see it because we're not in the thick of it. Try logging onto
any torrent site, though, and see what you find there. I guarantee you'll be
amazed--or maybe you won't.
Ryan

-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan
Peterson
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 4:13 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Giving Away Free Games was Announcement About
BSCGames

Quite frankly this entitlement view is why I don't have much respect for
many blind folks in general, and it's not ust to do with games. I get so mad
when I hear people talk about ow they won't participate in an activity
unless there's a discount because of blindness. THese are often the same
people who'll threaten to sue a store employee if they refuse to help them
shop regardless of the reasons for that refusal.



But thou must!


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