Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Oh yeah I am definitely a fan of youtube vids on this stuff, that has helped me to pick out most of the stuff I do have. I use them to learn about things like what the craft sounds like to see if I can hear it well for audio flying as I call it. Regards and game on. Tom On Jan 5, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Trouble wrote: you should check out youtube.com They have a lot of reviews and open box showing a lot of this stuff. At 02:34 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote: Hey thanks for the tips Trouble, great to meet another blind guy into this hobby you're the first I've come across in quite a while. Yes I do try to take the heli off with the tail toward me for a good point of reference but you of course sometimes get rotation one way or the other which will throw you off. These little helis that I have don't have individual trim controls they just have a trim dial below the sticks. I assume if I get something a bit more sophisticated like the Eflight ones I mention they will have more trim controls. Thanks again. Tom On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Trouble wrote: To help fix that drift. Get the helicopter to hover with tail to you. Then if it drifts left, give rudder trim on radio a little until it stops. With no wind conditions you should be able to get a steady hover. If not know where the trims are on radio. They are right next to the gimbals. At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi again. Yeah that's kind of what I thought, the one on banana hobby that you said yours was similar to is about a foot and a half long, if you want to really run something that size outside is probably the way to go unless you've got a heck of a big room. Laters. Tom - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project Mine was big enough that out side was its space, but my mom's 12 by 24 living room would do for testing. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Like to get my hands on one of them to. With them you get flight time stats of where it is and that all can be put to a talking digital display. Now we may not be able to use the cameras to good, but weapons are just a button away. The only thing that keeps it from my collection is about a few million dollars. Guess I'll have to see about cracking into a training session to fly that one. At 07:55 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote: Hi Trouble, Sweet! This helicopter looks awesome. Although, I'd rather fly one of the U.S. militaries unmanned recon drones. Those things are frickin' awesome! On 1/5/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Sense you like to shoot things, http://www.thinkrc.com/u810-missile-launching-35ch-fly-wolf-helicopter-gyro-and-sound-graphite-p-1436.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hey Tom and all. Yes there seems to be quite a bit of interest in this which is pretty cool. Yes you are right that there are definitely some gaming aspects to operating these things. As I think I mentioned in an earlier message one needs to have pretty good spatial understanding to operate these things especially things like the helis. Also the type of hand/ear coordination that we develop for gaming is very useful for flying these models around or driving them as the case may be. As for engaging in mock battles my wife and I will occasionally drive my two 1/24 scale tanks around the house and see who can score the most hits with their infrared cannon. She's got some sight so I usually get my head handed to me lol. Game on. Tom On Jan 5, 2012, at 4:16 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Tom, Smile. Oh, the topic is fine. Leave it on list. They may be toys, but there are certainly gaming aspects to RC toys that maybe you haven't thought about. For example, if you have a couple of RC race cars you can race them. That's certainly a game even if it isn't computer gaming specifically. Another application is RC planes. There are a number of RC planes and jets that fire toy missiles etc and I've seen people do some pretty decent mock air engagements with those things. Again, it isn't computer gaming, but the way the RC toys are used in that case could be gaming of sorts. Cheers! On 1/3/12, Tom Randall kf6...@comcast.net wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Heya Trouble and all. Oh yeah I am aware of that, had a little nitro powered hovercraft way back in the day, back when you had to put the fuel in the tank and drip a little into the cylinder of the engine and crank the prop by hand and get your finger back real quick. Wasn't quite fast enough a time or two, that was definitely no fun. In fact I still have that little thing around here someplace. Anyhow I imagine a turn is really more like a skid or a drift, these things are not going to turn like a car after all. Do you have better luck running your hover inside or outside? I mainly like to run my stuff inside, easier to keep it clean and maintain it that's one reason why these new electric models are great but I have thought about getting something that could do a bit of both, that is why I am considering whether to get the cx2 or the mcx2 for my next heli. The mcx2 is a micro strictly for indoor flying, where the cx2 is a bit bigger and can be flown either in a larger indoor area or outside. We are in a condo complex here so have pretty much no yard but have quite a bit of cement walkways and asphalt parking lots which would probably be good to run hovercraft on as well as grass areas. Laters. Tom On Jan 5, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Trouble wrote: Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt. The one I have is like the first one on list in size. One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original drifters when it comes to turning. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi, Grin. Yeah, me to. I heard the Reaper is a nasty little drone with quite a lot of firepower for an unmanned aircraft. You can fly that little drone to anywhere in the world and blow them to kingdom come with a couple of well placed missiles. They saw some action in Iraq and the enemy never knew what hit them. I read this true story about the U.S. military had a Reaper drone doing recon when they saw a couple of guys mining the roads. Let's just say they probably wished they hadn't. The general ordered the drone's operator to open fire on the guys and a single missile blew them apart before they even know what hit them. As I said its a nasty little piece of military hardware we have in the field these days. On 1/6/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Like to get my hands on one of them to. With them you get flight time stats of where it is and that all can be put to a talking digital display. Now we may not be able to use the cameras to good, but weapons are just a button away. The only thing that keeps it from my collection is about a few million dollars. Guess I'll have to see about cracking into a training session to fly that one. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi Tom, Yeah, exactly my point. I noticed when playing with my son's little helicopter the same skills I use in Shades of doom etc came into play with that heli because I had to listen carefully to where it was going and use my spacial orientation to turn it before it crashed into a wall or make sure it was high enough to clear a lamp etc. The skills required to operate both are similar. As far as the tanks goes I'd love to get into those. I've seen some really cool models out there, and I could imagine my son and I driving them all over the place attacking and seeing who can score the most hits. They are a great little hobby that's for sure. Cheers! On 1/6/12, Tom Randall kf6...@comcast.net wrote: Hey Tom and all. Yes there seems to be quite a bit of interest in this which is pretty cool. Yes you are right that there are definitely some gaming aspects to operating these things. As I think I mentioned in an earlier message one needs to have pretty good spatial understanding to operate these things especially things like the helis. Also the type of hand/ear coordination that we develop for gaming is very useful for flying these models around or driving them as the case may be. As for engaging in mock battles my wife and I will occasionally drive my two 1/24 scale tanks around the house and see who can score the most hits with their infrared cannon. She's got some sight so I usually get my head handed to me lol. Game on. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Well I or rather my brother has happened to own from time to time rc cars and helecopters. While the cars can take quite a bit of dammage unless they flip, the copters we eventually gave up on. Inevitably they would crash, and when they did there would be a 50% chance of them breaking. And unless you spent a tone you wouldn't have all the steering avalible to you, to the point where controling things with any stability was quite a joke. And just like the cars they chewed battery like no one's business. The copters have all crashed long ago. THe car is still round but may be sold one day since now my brother has a job he has barely enough time to really relax never mind actually do time wasting things like playing with the car so who knows. Heya Trouble and all. Oh yeah I am aware of that, had a little nitro powered hovercraft way back in the day, back when you had to put the fuel in the tank and drip a little into the cylinder of the engine and crank the prop by hand and get your finger back real quick. Wasn't quite fast enough a time or two, that was definitely no fun. In fact I still have that little thing around here someplace. Anyhow I imagine a turn is really more like a skid or a drift, these things are not going to turn like a car after all. Do you have better luck running your hover inside or outside? I mainly like to run my stuff inside, easier to keep it clean and maintain it that's one reason why these new electric models are great but I have thought about getting something that could do a bit of both, that is why I am considering whether to get the cx2 or the mcx2 for my next heli. The mcx2 is a micro strictly for indoor flying, where the cx2 is a bit bigger and can be flown either in a larger indoor area or outside. We are in a condo complex here so have pretty much no yard but have quite a bit of cement walkways and asphalt parking lots which would probably be good to run hovercraft on as well as grass areas. Laters. Tom On Jan 5, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Trouble wrote: Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt. The one I have is like the first one on list in size. One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original drifters when it comes to turning. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
never thought about models, but again, storage is an issue. My desk is fully used, the shelves have my hardware, plugs books and then other junk. My room's storage is a joke, I can't even run a joystick in here. Outside, well i guess I could but would I want to. Not to mention that any thing like a model something in the lounge with all the breakables is hmm not possible. Anything like a console on that place is just a joke. There is this nice inaccessable digital tv there, dvd players hdd recorder, etc that I am almost to scared to work, Hi Tom, Yeah, exactly my point. I noticed when playing with my son's little helicopter the same skills I use in Shades of doom etc came into play with that heli because I had to listen carefully to where it was going and use my spacial orientation to turn it before it crashed into a wall or make sure it was high enough to clear a lamp etc. The skills required to operate both are similar. As far as the tanks goes I'd love to get into those. I've seen some really cool models out there, and I could imagine my son and I driving them all over the place attacking and seeing who can score the most hits. They are a great little hobby that's for sure. Cheers! On 1/6/12, Tom Randall kf6...@comcast.net wrote: Hey Tom and all. Yes there seems to be quite a bit of interest in this which is pretty cool. Yes you are right that there are definitely some gaming aspects to operating these things. As I think I mentioned in an earlier message one needs to have pretty good spatial understanding to operate these things especially things like the helis. Also the type of hand/ear coordination that we develop for gaming is very useful for flying these models around or driving them as the case may be. As for engaging in mock battles my wife and I will occasionally drive my two 1/24 scale tanks around the house and see who can score the most hits with their infrared cannon. She's got some sight so I usually get my head handed to me lol. Game on. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Back in the mid 80's when I still had sight. I was in NC and from the hill I was on. I got to see a F18 flown by remote. It had a pilot, but he was waving to me with both hands as the jet wash blew me off that hill. So that should give you a idea of how low they where flying threw those mountains with something that big. At 03:15 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote: Hi, Grin. Yeah, me to. I heard the Reaper is a nasty little drone with quite a lot of firepower for an unmanned aircraft. You can fly that little drone to anywhere in the world and blow them to kingdom come with a couple of well placed missiles. They saw some action in Iraq and the enemy never knew what hit them. I read this true story about the U.S. military had a Reaper drone doing recon when they saw a couple of guys mining the roads. Let's just say they probably wished they hadn't. The general ordered the drone's operator to open fire on the guys and a single missile blew them apart before they even know what hit them. As I said its a nasty little piece of military hardware we have in the field these days. On 1/6/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Like to get my hands on one of them to. With them you get flight time stats of where it is and that all can be put to a talking digital display. Now we may not be able to use the cameras to good, but weapons are just a button away. The only thing that keeps it from my collection is about a few million dollars. Guess I'll have to see about cracking into a training session to fly that one. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
The cars are not bad either. Had a truck that was clocked in the pickup doing 40mph. Everyone in the hood came out to watch that car run up and down the street. It really blew there minds when they found out I was blind, and driving that car perfect at those speeds. The car was a Duritrax STS1/10 scale. So yes, blind people we can drive not just not ride. At 03:25 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote: Hi Tom, Yeah, exactly my point. I noticed when playing with my son's little helicopter the same skills I use in Shades of doom etc came into play with that heli because I had to listen carefully to where it was going and use my spacial orientation to turn it before it crashed into a wall or make sure it was high enough to clear a lamp etc. The skills required to operate both are similar. As far as the tanks goes I'd love to get into those. I've seen some really cool models out there, and I could imagine my son and I driving them all over the place attacking and seeing who can score the most hits. They are a great little hobby that's for sure. Cheers! On 1/6/12, Tom Randall kf6...@comcast.net wrote: Hey Tom and all. Yes there seems to be quite a bit of interest in this which is pretty cool. Yes you are right that there are definitely some gaming aspects to operating these things. As I think I mentioned in an earlier message one needs to have pretty good spatial understanding to operate these things especially things like the helis. Also the type of hand/ear coordination that we develop for gaming is very useful for flying these models around or driving them as the case may be. As for engaging in mock battles my wife and I will occasionally drive my two 1/24 scale tanks around the house and see who can score the most hits with their infrared cannon. She's got some sight so I usually get my head handed to me lol. Game on. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
With new technology flying and driving are a lot easier now. Some of the helicopters fly them selfs almost. At 03:43 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote: Well I or rather my brother has happened to own from time to time rc cars and helecopters. While the cars can take quite a bit of dammage unless they flip, the copters we eventually gave up on. Inevitably they would crash, and when they did there would be a 50% chance of them breaking. And unless you spent a tone you wouldn't have all the steering avalible to you, to the point where controling things with any stability was quite a joke. And just like the cars they chewed battery like no one's business. The copters have all crashed long ago. THe car is still round but may be sold one day since now my brother has a job he has barely enough time to really relax never mind actually do time wasting things like playing with the car so who knows. Heya Trouble and all. Oh yeah I am aware of that, had a little nitro powered hovercraft way back in the day, back when you had to put the fuel in the tank and drip a little into the cylinder of the engine and crank the prop by hand and get your finger back real quick. Wasn't quite fast enough a time or two, that was definitely no fun. In fact I still have that little thing around here someplace. Anyhow I imagine a turn is really more like a skid or a drift, these things are not going to turn like a car after all. Do you have better luck running your hover inside or outside? I mainly like to run my stuff inside, easier to keep it clean and maintain it that's one reason why these new electric models are great but I have thought about getting something that could do a bit of both, that is why I am considering whether to get the cx2 or the mcx2 for my next heli. The mcx2 is a micro strictly for indoor flying, where the cx2 is a bit bigger and can be flown either in a larger indoor area or outside. We are in a condo complex here so have pretty much no yard but have quite a bit of cement walkways and asphalt parking lots which would probably be good to run hovercraft on as well as grass areas. Laters. Tom On Jan 5, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Trouble wrote: Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt. The one I have is like the first one on list in size. One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original drifters when it comes to turning. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Mine was big enough that out side was its space, but my mom's 12 by 24 living room would do for testing. At 03:11 PM 1/6/2012, you wrote: Heya Trouble and all. Oh yeah I am aware of that, had a little nitro powered hovercraft way back in the day, back when you had to put the fuel in the tank and drip a little into the cylinder of the engine and crank the prop by hand and get your finger back real quick. Wasn't quite fast enough a time or two, that was definitely no fun. In fact I still have that little thing around here someplace. Anyhow I imagine a turn is really more like a skid or a drift, these things are not going to turn like a car after all. Do you have better luck running your hover inside or outside? I mainly like to run my stuff inside, easier to keep it clean and maintain it that's one reason why these new electric models are great but I have thought about getting something that could do a bit of both, that is why I am considering whether to get the cx2 or the mcx2 for my next heli. The mcx2 is a micro strictly for indoor flying, where the cx2 is a bit bigger and can be flown either in a larger indoor area or outside. We are in a condo complex here so have pretty much no yard but have quite a bit of cement walkways and asphalt parking lots which would probably be good to run hovercraft on as well as grass areas. Laters. Tom On Jan 5, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Trouble wrote: Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt. The one I have is like the first one on list in size. One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original drifters when it comes to turning. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hey thanks for the tips Trouble, great to meet another blind guy into this hobby you're the first I've come across in quite a while. Yes I do try to take the heli off with the tail toward me for a good point of reference but you of course sometimes get rotation one way or the other which will throw you off. These little helis that I have don't have individual trim controls they just have a trim dial below the sticks. I assume if I get something a bit more sophisticated like the Eflight ones I mention they will have more trim controls. Thanks again. Tom On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Trouble wrote: To help fix that drift. Get the helicopter to hover with tail to you. Then if it drifts left, give rudder trim on radio a little until it stops. With no wind conditions you should be able to get a steady hover. If not know where the trims are on radio. They are right next to the gimbals. At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hey Trouble and all. Thanks for the link I will definitely check this out. Tom On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Trouble wrote: For a look at hovers, http://www.bananahobby.com/ At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it further but we probably oughta do it off list since this isn't really gaming. Game on. Tom On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Charles Rivard wrote: Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that any flying craft needs a lot of space. How big are these helicopters?, and how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking? It sounds like interesting fun! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
you should check out youtube.com They have a lot of reviews and open box showing a lot of this stuff. At 02:34 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote: Hey thanks for the tips Trouble, great to meet another blind guy into this hobby you're the first I've come across in quite a while. Yes I do try to take the heli off with the tail toward me for a good point of reference but you of course sometimes get rotation one way or the other which will throw you off. These little helis that I have don't have individual trim controls they just have a trim dial below the sticks. I assume if I get something a bit more sophisticated like the Eflight ones I mention they will have more trim controls. Thanks again. Tom On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:35 PM, Trouble wrote: To help fix that drift. Get the helicopter to hover with tail to you. Then if it drifts left, give rudder trim on radio a little until it stops. With no wind conditions you should be able to get a steady hover. If not know where the trims are on radio. They are right next to the gimbals. At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi again. Have checked out some of the hovercraft on the banana hobby page you provided, these look real interesting and reasonably priced to boot. One thing I notice I do not see any brand names on the product descriptions so it will be kind of difficult to find youtube vides on specific ones. Do you have any of the listed models on there and if so what do you like and not like about them? Thanks again. Game on. Tom On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Trouble wrote: For a look at hovers, http://www.bananahobby.com/ At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it further but we probably oughta do it off list since this isn't really gaming. Game on. Tom On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Charles Rivard wrote: Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Don't have any of the models, but I do like the rubber skirt. The one I have is like the first one on list in size. One thing you have to keep in mind is they are the original drifters when it comes to turning. At 03:52 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote: Hi again. Have checked out some of the hovercraft on the banana hobby page you provided, these look real interesting and reasonably priced to boot. One thing I notice I do not see any brand names on the product descriptions so it will be kind of difficult to find youtube vides on specific ones. Do you have any of the listed models on there and if so what do you like and not like about them? Thanks again. Game on. Tom On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:38 PM, Trouble wrote: For a look at hovers, http://www.bananahobby.com/ At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it further
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi Charles, The indoor helicopters are too small to be flown outside, the wind will often cause them to crash, and the reason is because they are pretty small. The indoor models are not much bigger than a man's hand, roughly speaking, and are maybe 6 inches long and the propeller on top is about six to eight inches in diameter. Like I said they are pretty small and aren't big enough to handle a lot of air current or wind so they have to be flown indoors. As for flying them you can here them flying around so if you have a good idea where walls, doors, lamps, and things are you can usually avoid them. Although, I've misjudged that stuff a time or to and crashed my son's indoor helicopter into lamps, walls, doors, windows, and things like that plenty of times without any serious damage to either the helicopter or whatever it ran into. Cheers! On 12/22/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that any flying craft needs a lot of space. How big are these helicopters?, and how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking? It sounds like interesting fun! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi Tom, Smile. Oh, the topic is fine. Leave it on list. They may be toys, but there are certainly gaming aspects to RC toys that maybe you haven't thought about. For example, if you have a couple of RC race cars you can race them. That's certainly a game even if it isn't computer gaming specifically. Another application is RC planes. There are a number of RC planes and jets that fire toy missiles etc and I've seen people do some pretty decent mock air engagements with those things. Again, it isn't computer gaming, but the way the RC toys are used in that case could be gaming of sorts. Cheers! On 1/3/12, Tom Randall kf6...@comcast.net wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it further but we probably oughta do it off list since this isn't really gaming. Game on. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Sense you like to shoot things, http://www.thinkrc.com/u810-missile-launching-35ch-fly-wolf-helicopter-gyro-and-sound-graphite-p-1436.html At 07:16 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote: Hi Tom, Smile. Oh, the topic is fine. Leave it on list. They may be toys, but there are certainly gaming aspects to RC toys that maybe you haven't thought about. For example, if you have a couple of RC race cars you can race them. That's certainly a game even if it isn't computer gaming specifically. Another application is RC planes. There are a number of RC planes and jets that fire toy missiles etc and I've seen people do some pretty decent mock air engagements with those things. Again, it isn't computer gaming, but the way the RC toys are used in that case could be gaming of sorts. Cheers! On 1/3/12, Tom Randall kf6...@comcast.net wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
When you get to 4CH type. The smallest blade length is around 8 in and up to or better than 27 in. The bigger you go the less you have to worry about wind. You can have a lot of fun with the small one for cheep. At 07:05 PM 1/5/2012, you wrote: Hi Charles, The indoor helicopters are too small to be flown outside, the wind will often cause them to crash, and the reason is because they are pretty small. The indoor models are not much bigger than a man's hand, roughly speaking, and are maybe 6 inches long and the propeller on top is about six to eight inches in diameter. Like I said they are pretty small and aren't big enough to handle a lot of air current or wind so they have to be flown indoors. As for flying them you can here them flying around so if you have a good idea where walls, doors, lamps, and things are you can usually avoid them. Although, I've misjudged that stuff a time or to and crashed my son's indoor helicopter into lamps, walls, doors, windows, and things like that plenty of times without any serious damage to either the helicopter or whatever it ran into. Cheers! On 12/22/11, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that any flying craft needs a lot of space. How big are these helicopters?, and how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking? It sounds like interesting fun! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi Trouble, Sweet! This helicopter looks awesome. Although, I'd rather fly one of the U.S. militaries unmanned recon drones. Those things are frickin' awesome! On 1/5/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: Sense you like to shoot things, http://www.thinkrc.com/u810-missile-launching-35ch-fly-wolf-helicopter-gyro-and-sound-graphite-p-1436.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hi Trouble, Yeah, I figured that. That's just basic physics there. The bigger the blades, and the heavier the helocopter, etc the more stable it will be in flight. The one I have was a Christmas present for my son, and it was meant to be an inexpensive gift. When he gets older we'll probably upgrade to a bigger more expensive model. Cheers! On 1/5/12, Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com wrote: When you get to 4CH type. The smallest blade length is around 8 in and up to or better than 27 in. The bigger you go the less you have to worry about wind. You can have a lot of fun with the small one for cheep. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it further but we probably oughta do it off list since this isn't really gaming. Game on. Tom On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Charles Rivard wrote: Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that any flying craft needs a lot of space. How big are these helicopters?, and how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking? It sounds like interesting fun! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project You got some of the principles, but way off on others. The ailerons on the ends of the wings are what lets the plane turn left or right. You get
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
To help fix that drift. Get the helicopter to hover with tail to you. Then if it drifts left, give rudder trim on radio a little until it stops. With no wind conditions you should be able to get a steady hover. If not know where the trims are on radio. They are right next to the gimbals. At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it further but we probably oughta do it off list since this isn't really gaming. Game on. Tom On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Charles Rivard wrote: Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that any flying craft needs a lot of space. How big are these helicopters?, and how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking? It sounds like interesting fun! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble
Re: [Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
For a look at hovers, http://www.bananahobby.com/ At 02:31 PM 1/3/2012, you wrote: Hey Charles and all. The helis designed for indoor flying are mostly pretty small. I have a couple of them here that I've bought over the last few years, my Bladerunner has a rotor diameter of about 11 inches if memory serves and weighs in at about 55 grams would have to look at the manual to get exact specs. Last year I picked up one of the little Sima s107 microcopters they're basically a cheapy version of the Eflight micros. These have a rotor diameter of about 7 inches and they weigh in at about 35 grams or so so they are very very small. Yes you do need some space to fly these little things around, we have too much crap in our house and besides flying things tend to scare Xena our female green iguana so I tend to take my indoor craft either down to our rec room or over to a friend's place who has more room. The motors on these little things are easily audible so it is pretty easy to use the same type of hand-ear coordination that we develop in audio gaming to fly them, the difference is you definitely need to have good spatial concepts and be able to really understand what three dimensions means and be able to think quickly that way. Basically the first thing I try to work on if I haven't been flying for a while is to achieve a stable hover, you want to get the heli off the ground a bit so that your rotor wash does not cause too much turbulence and then try to hear if it is drifting, they do drift very easily despite the fact that most of them have an internal gyroscope and any air currents at all will cause this, then you have to apply a very slight amount with your directional stick to counter this movement. If you are a total which I am this is going to be challenging because you will not know which way to move your directional stick, e.g. you will not know if your heli is drifting forward, backward, or sideways. The best approach that I've found is to simply apply a bit of direction and see where it goes and be ready to correct quickly if you have guessed wrong. These little things are loads of fun if you have somewhere to fly them, so far as I'm concerned it's like gaming but even better in a way because you're actually controlling a real object instead of a virtual one. I've had a fascination with RC stuff most of my adult life but it's only since we are seeing the advent of digital radio control and these reasonably affordable products that I've been able to actually get into it. Having said that if you do decide to give this a go, I would recommend that you pick up one of the inexpensive ones to start with, something like the Sima helis are ok, they only run around 30 bucks or so on Amazon last time I checked. That way if you crack one up it isn't the end of the world. You can get better micros from companies like Eflight for instance, I am just about ready to upgrade to one of these, if you want strictly indoor flying then I am considering something like the MCX2. If you want something that you can fly outside too then maybe the CX2 would be worth looking at. There are of course way more expensive ones, you can spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on this hobby but since I don't have that kind of money to spend the ones I am talking about and the ones I buy are probably considered the less expensive ones, the bigger one, the CX is around 150 or so last time I checked. One nice thing about the better ones from Eflight, while the cheapy ones I have are really pretty much toys and if you break them that's it, the Eflight ones are really closer to an true RC model and you can get pretty much any spare parts you need if you do crash one. In short, RC stuff is loads of fun and there are definitely things that we can do in that hobby without sight. Besides my two helis I also have a bigger quadrocopter called an x-ufo and a couple of 1/24 scale rc tanks. RC hovercraft are something I'm really interested in but have not done much research on which ones are good to get so would be glad for any info on that. If anyone is interested in getting into this hobby I'd certainly be happy to talk about it further but we probably oughta do it off list since this isn't really gaming. Game on. Tom On Dec 22, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Charles Rivard wrote: Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that any flying craft needs a lot of space. How big are these helicopters?, and how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking? It sounds like interesting fun! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project You got some of the principles, but way off on
[Audyssey] RC aircraft - Re: a thought on the Shard Workshop project
Just curious: Indoor helicopters? I would think that any flying craft needs a lot of space. How big are these helicopters?, and how do you navigate without smacking it into walls or ceiling without looking? It sounds like interesting fun! --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Trouble troub...@columbus.rr.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project You got some of the principles, but way off on others. The ailerons on the ends of the wings are what lets the plane turn left or right. You get this motion by moving the yoke left or right. By pushing forward or pulling back on the yoke causes the Elevators on the tail wings to raise or lower the planes level of flight. By giving the plane more or less power. Gives more or less wind on the wings surface to assist in these movements. Speed only makes you go faster or slower. Depending on wait of plane determines how much speed it takes to keep it in the air. Not all planes have rudders, and those that do move along with the ailerons. Anyone that has flown and had time at the stick would of ben told this info after all its basic flying. You want hard flying try a helicopter. i have flown just about all types of RC models from airplanes to hover craft. Now working on helicopters indoor type and out. Ben playing with these big boy toys for past 30 years and most of it being blind. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
