test 24.05.02 9:54

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Divorcing karma from CVS access? (Re: Vicious Abuse?)

On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 03:51:54PM +0100, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > "Jeff Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > .. and thankful that people like Costin persevere in spite of rather > > vicious abuse. > > Vicious abuse? All I am proposing is to add greater flexibility to the > freedom of those w

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ignacio J. Ortega wrote: > but all i can say from the history i know, that you are simply suffering > some kind of father syndrome, like those fathers that, when his children Stop reading Freud :-) ! We need to add as commiters not only a lawyer, but also a shrink now. Co

RE: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> De: Pier Fumagalli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Enviado el: sábado 25 de mayo de 2002 19:52 > > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is > the way that > this community has to decide whether a person is a committer > or not, given > that as it is today, you're not recogn

Re: Objectbridge and JDO: Licensing issue

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:00, Florian Bruckner wrote: ... > > My understanding of this paragraph is, that we'd only be able the JDO part > > of OJB under these conditions and only for research. This implies that > we'll > > not be able to release a "production quality" version of OJB-JDO. What we >

RE: Vicious Abuse?

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:22, Danny Angus wrote: > I think what I'm trying to say is that if we want to reconcile the > conflicting aims of having a small manageable group who can communicate, and > *reach**decisions* easily with encouraging large number of participants it > needs to be in some way

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

At 10:07 25.05.2002 -0400, you wrote: >Ceki Gülcü wrote: > > > > The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The > > author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized > > enough is the need for direction. What's the use of having a million > > volunteers if th

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Nope, we shouldn't but we should give it to those who ARE interested in the > future of Jakarta, or XML, and _do_stuff_ for those project, but are not > "bound" to a particular codebase. We should change our "meter" from being > you contribute CODE to

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: > > I respect Craig mostly for the quality of his code ( even if I prefer > > different solutions and we disagree on many other things ), I respect > > Sam the most for keeping a low-key as 'PMC president' ( I never saw > > him use the 'I'm the PMC c

RE: Vicious Abuse?

I think what I'm trying to say is that if we want to reconcile the conflicting aims of having a small manageable group who can communicate, and *reach**decisions* easily with encouraging large number of participants it needs to be in some way fractal. What is there to be gained by giving every co

RE: Vicious Abuse?

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:40, Danny Angus wrote: > > > Is it a vicious abuse to ask to free this community from a concept like > > "meritocracy as the number of lines of code you put into CVS"? > > I'm lagging behind here.. but, if you'll humor me, > IMHO its naieve, and potentially harmful for t

RE: Vicious Abuse?

> Is it a vicious abuse to ask to free this community from a concept like > "meritocracy as the number of lines of code you put into CVS"? I'm lagging behind here.. but, if you'll humor me, IMHO its naieve, and potentially harmful for the project to have one type of membership, commiters, with m

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It does have the right to vote, but it's not binding (at least this is what > > Stefano told me two weeks ago). > > > > I don't want developers that are not committers to vote: a vote is important >

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It does have the right to vote, but it's not binding (at least this is what > Stefano told me two weeks ago). > > I don't want developers that are not committers to vote: a vote is important > for the future of the project, and the future of Apac

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What is the way that *any* community decides in voting? > > > > You *are* a member of the community even if you do not have an account. > > > > http://xml.apache.org/roles.html : > > " > > Develop

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What is the way that *any* community decides in voting? > > You *are* a member of the community even if you do not have an account. > > http://xml.apache.org/roles.html : > " > Developers > > Developers are the people who write code or docume

Re: FW: Howdy... just FYI, the bcel-dev archive mailing list linkis broken...

Someone beat me to it ;) Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 20:07, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > bcel-dev is just not on mail-archive.com.. > It has to be subscribed, which I am trying to do currently ;)) > > Mvgr, > Martin > > On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:58, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > FYI, can so

Re: FW: Howdy... just FYI, the bcel-dev archive mailing list linkis broken...

bcel-dev is just not on mail-archive.com.. It has to be subscribed, which I am trying to do currently ;)) Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:58, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > FYI, can someone with the right knowledge fix it? :) > > Pier > > -- > [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), then why measure them > > at all? > > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is the way that > this community has to decide

Re: Objectbridge and JDO: Licensing issue

Florian, I believe that this is more-or-less (or falls really close) to the issue that XML-Axis is having (but I might be wrong, Sam?) Maybe Jason (our liaison with the JCP) can give us some light on this topic? Pier "Florian Bruckner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I am sending thi

Objectbridge and JDO: Licensing issue

Hi, I am sending this to the jakarta-general list because I hope that some of you can help us to resolve the following issue. As you might remember, Objectbridge was recently proposed as a jakarta-subproject and accepted. This requires Objectbridge to change the license to ASL, which is perfectl

FW: Howdy... just FYI, the bcel-dev archive mailing list link isbroken...

FYI, can someone with the right knowledge fix it? :) Pier -- [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion of different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. [Jamie Zawinski - DNA Lounge - San Francisco]

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), then why measure them > at all? If commit numbers are not so important (and I agree), what is the way that this community has to decide whether a person is a committer or not, given that as it

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 19:03, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > The action worthy of merit being: Surviving adolescence? Too many words I need a dictionary for ;)) (it's hard to discuss stuff you have to get out of a dictionary, so I will not try that) I will conclude this day of way too little coding by

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > > Just need to grep the right files... You are a good committer, I see that > > you have 2342 commits into the turbine CVS. Good. > > > > I still beat you, overall I'm at 10717, Andy is at 2666 (Andy you're so > > lazy), b

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 12:53, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > > its a meritocracy. > > Thanx to the Oxfort dictionary I know what it is.. But all democracies > are actually meritocracies according to the dictionary, they select you > to be able to vote when 18+. But this is getting way to Off-Topic

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > >> "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > >> > >> This is one of t

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Just need to grep the right files... You are a good committer, I see that > you have 2342 commits into the turbine CVS. Good. > > I still beat you, overall I'm at 10717, Andy is at 2666 (Andy you're so > lazy), but hear hear, Costin has 25871, beating

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> its a meritocracy. Thanx to the Oxfort dictionary I know what it is.. But all democracies are actually meritocracies according to the dictionary, they select you to be able to vote when 18+. But this is getting way to Off-Topic I guess... ;)) Mvgr, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Nicola Ken Barozzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the >> "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... >> >> This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country.

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

LOL ;-) On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 12:43, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > Maven provides that functionality ;)) > see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/activity-log.html > > Mvgr, > Martin > > On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:28, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > "James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> No, it isn't. > In a true democracy, one has the right to abstain. > > IMO that a good democracy doesn't need strong feelings: many dictators go to > power with a strong vote with a strong turnout, while one of the major > democracies of the world, the US, doen't surely have one of the highest

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> while one of the major > democracies of the world, the US, doen't surely have one of the highest > turnouts. And a lot of people see that as a really bad thing. Turning in an empty ballot is one thing, but not going to the polls because you can't tear yourself away from 'Must See TV' is ignorin

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Maven provides that functionality ;)) see http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine/maven/activity-log.html Mvgr, Martin On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 18:28, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > "James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and > > realize ho

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > > This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are > we undermining that? No, it isn't. In a true democ

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > > This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are > we undermining that? Hmm.. democracy is also having the right not to vote. Just don't comp

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> Being a committer (at least that's my idea), he doesn't only have the > "right" to vote, but also the "due" to vote... > > This is one of the fundamental concepts of any good democratic country. Are > we undermining that? > you also have the right to abstain. Sometimes you speak loudest by

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> Hints for newbies, make your CVS commits small, so your overall activity > meter will grow. Two lines at a time, and if you have a nice file of 1000 > lines, you get 500 points just for that... > I'll try and remember that next time. Can//; //; We //; //; //; get //; //;

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > >> Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. >> >> It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this >> communi

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and > realize how little value he brings to the community =) Sorry James, I just _had_ to do this! :) Nothing personal!!! :) :) :) Just need to grep the right files... You are a good com

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. > > It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this > community, nor James "Gonzo" Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:38, James Taylor wrote: > > > My projects haven't come to a grinding halt. Only on general @ jakarta > > But this isn't about your projects, it is about the community, and the > community is more important than the code. Do you even know why you are > here? > No.. how

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> The converse: You all can vote all day long on what I'm to do, but what > are you going to do when my dissenting vote is cast by me not actually > doing it? Voting has NOTHING to do with what work gets done. Thats the > POWER of those who do. We are talking about this proposal am I right no

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:38, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. > > > > I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be > > implementing that shortly. (Step

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 11:38, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:16, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. > > Then I fail to see your connection with my story too.. > I'll Give it try anyway : If no one cares o

Re: Vicious Abuse?

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > "Jeff Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > .. and thankful that people like Costin persevere in spite of rather > > vicious abuse. > > Vicious abuse? All I am proposing is to add greater flexibility to the > freedom of those who are involved with

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> > -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him and > realize how little value he brings to the community =) +1 on humor ;) You can add some extra by committing my patches for turbine-2.. )) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

> My projects haven't come to a grinding halt. Only on general @ jakarta But this isn't about your projects, it is about the community, and the community is more important than the code. Do you even know why you are here? > -Andy -- jt (who is afraid Pier will do a mailing list search on him

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. > > I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be > implementing that shortly. (Step 1. Drive Server to chapel hill, Step > 2. Install Scarab on it fo

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 17:16, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. Then I fail to see your connection with my story too.. I'll Give it try anyway : If no one cares or just one person cares and needs to vote of all to get things imple

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

On Sat, 25 May 2002, Ceki Gülcü wrote: > At 23:30 24.05.2002 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote: > >http://www.libertyforall.net/2002/archive/do-ocracy.html > > The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The > author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized > enough i

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

I fail to see the connection between what I said and what you stated. I offered myself as installer of Scarab and it was accepted. I'll be implementing that shortly. (Step 1. Drive Server to chapel hill, Step 2. Install Scarab on it for practice, Step 3. install here) -Andy On Sat, 2002-05

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 07:35, Ceki Gülcü wrote: > At 23:30 24.05.2002 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote: > >http://www.libertyforall.net/2002/archive/do-ocracy.html > > The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The > author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized > e

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Andy, With this attitude nothing gets ever implemented I guess. In this case Pier can hardly say : I am going to implement this and all of you comply! So he can implement whatever he wants, as long as it it still veto'd its no use investing spare time in. I offered myself 2 times to jakarta as

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 09:13, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. > > It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this > community, nor James "Gonzo" Todd (ex employee at Sun), t

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 10:07, Sam Ruby wrote: > Ceki Gülcü wrote: > > > > The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The > > author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized > > enough is the need for direction. What's the use of having a million > > voluntee

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 10:17, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ceki Gülcü wrote: > >> > >> The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The > >> author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized > >> enough is the need for di

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, 2002-05-25 at 10:44, Martin van den Bemt wrote: > Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code > however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). > > I am a +1 on Piers proposal. > > Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can > be ver

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

"Martin van den Bemt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Designers, politicians, copywriters, lawyers, nannies, cleaning lady, > sys admins, people with great ideas ("the thinkers") etc,etc.. A > community is more then just programming, although it is "our" core > business here. Others can give us a l

Vicious Abuse?

"Jeff Turner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > .. and thankful that people like Costin persevere in spite of rather > vicious abuse. Vicious abuse? All I am proposing is to add greater flexibility to the freedom of those who are involved with the Jakarta project. All I'm proposing is to accept the

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Even though I am not a committer / member (I try to contribute code however), I just needed to express my opinion ;). I am a +1 on Piers proposal. Especially the membership possibility for people who are not coding can be very constructive for this community! Designers, politicians, copywrite

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 02:04:24PM +0100, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > > > >>> If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. > >>> If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

"Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ceki Gülcü wrote: >> >> The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The >> author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized >> enough is the need for direction. What's the use of having a million >> volunteers if they

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

Ceki Gülcü wrote: > > The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The > author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized > enough is the need for direction. What's the use of having a million > volunteers if they all pull in different directions? Apache proj

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

Sam Ruby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.libertyforall.net/2002/archive/do-ocracy.html Nice article, but that has little to do with the problem that I'm trying to outline here (which is not a matter of "freedom" but of "rights and responsibilities"). Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Andrew C. Oliver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -1, its not broken, it worked. I see little reason to fix it. It is broken. We don't allow Sally Khudairi to be a member of this community, nor James "Gonzo" Todd (ex employee at Sun), to leave his employment and terminate his working (9 to 5) relat

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

Tim Vernum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >> If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all >> other commiters. >> If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. > > But it's not just about exercising rights, it's also

Re: [PROPOSAL] Committer access and responsibilities...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, 25 May 2002, Pier Fumagalli wrote: > >>> If you are a commiter - you have the same rights with all other commiters. >>> If you don't want to exercise some rights - it's your choice. >> >> Hola, you tend to forget a part I'm stressing out qui

Re: welcoming and nurturing volunteers

At 23:30 24.05.2002 -0400, Sam Ruby wrote: >http://www.libertyforall.net/2002/archive/do-ocracy.html The motivational power of appreciation cannot be underestimated. The author is correct in emphasizing the point. What is not emphasized enough is the need for direction. What's the use of having a