Anything happening in this regard?
-Harish
Costin Manolache wrote:
Ted Husted wrote:
Right now, the only plan seems to be to nominate committers one-by-one
on the PMC list. I'm just saying that we shouldn't play favorites. I
believe all Jakarta committers have already earned membership in
A vote is on-going at the moment [ends Sunday] for 20 or so people, but
I've not heard of any movement on the plans to increase in a more
aggressive way.
Hen
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
Anything happening in this regard?
-Harish
Costin Manolache wrote:
Ted Husted
Thanks, will results be posted here?
-Harish
Henri Yandell wrote:
A vote is on-going at the moment [ends Sunday] for 20 or so people, but
I've not heard of any movement on the plans to increase in a more
aggressive way.
Hen
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
Anything happening
Currently that doesn't happen. Would be nice if it could, but it just
doesn't fit.
When someone wins a vote, they're invited to join. If they accept, which
they signify by joining the PMC list [the Jakarta Chair moderates it],
then the Jakarta Chair passes their name onto the board and they're
Thanks for the update.
I don't understand why anything but the actual vote needs to be in private. There should probably be
a public nomination list with reasons for hand picking (if hand picked) and a public results list
with just a tally, like how JCP does it
I don't understand why anything but the actual vote needs to be in
private.
There should probably be a public nomination list with reasons for hand
picking (if hand picked) and a public results list
If you are nominated and not elected people would know. Otherwise, there is
privacy. I do
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I don't understand why anything but the actual vote needs to be in
private.
There should probably be a public nomination list with reasons for hand
picking (if hand picked) and a public results list
If you are nominated and not elected people
Personally, I would send in the list to the board, get it ACK'd, and then
celebrate the results with a public congratulatory notice.
--- Noel
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On Jan 14, 2004, at 3:30 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
I don't understand why anything but the actual vote needs to be in
private.
There should probably be a public nomination list with reasons for
hand
picking (if hand picked) and a public results list
Ted Husted wrote:
Right now, the only plan seems to be to nominate committers one-by-one
on the PMC list. I'm just saying that we shouldn't play favorites. I
believe all Jakarta committers have already earned membership in the
PMC; we should tender the offer to every Jakarta committer and let
Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 05:04:32 +0900
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:27:30 -0500
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
In HTTPD/APR world. mostly Apache MEMBERS
On Dec 30, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
This doesn't seem quite right to me.
I agree that when we have voted in a new committer, both the existing
committers and the new committer have had the same expectations with
respect to their rights and
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
On Dec 30, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Harish Krishnaswamy wrote:
Martin Cooper wrote:
This doesn't seem quite right to me.
I agree that when we have voted in a new committer, both the existing
committers and the new committer have had the same expectations with
respect to
If I were the chair of the Jakarta PMC and a board member and favored seeing
Jakarta split up into TLPs, I'd do this:
1. Put everyone on the PMC
2. Get them in a reorganization type discussion
Because the bulk of the 700? committers at Apache are in Jakarta and the
bulk of the discussion has no
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:13:59 -0500
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
If I were the chair of the Jakarta PMC and a board member and favored seeing
Jakarta split up into TLPs, I'd do this:
1. Put everyone on the PMC
2. Get them in a reorganization type discussion
In HTTPD/APR world. mostly Apache
On Thu, 1 Jan 2004, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:13:59 -0500
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
If I were the chair of the Jakarta PMC and a board member and favored seeing
Jakarta split up into TLPs, I'd do this:
1. Put everyone on the PMC
2. Get them in a reorganization
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 10:18:29 -0500
Ted Husted wrote:
If Struts does graduate to a TLP, I would update the wiki page based
on our own experience (if someone doesn't beat me to it) and post a
link to all the DEV lists. (Unless, of course, the growing consensus
changes and the PMC decides to do
Hi, Henri and all
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 12:44:31 -0500 (EST)
Henri Yandell wrote:
I'd like to see the jakarta XXX PMC groups to be organized into
subgroups realms. Jakarta has it's own brand. You can have either
Jakarta POI or Apache POI, i guess... subsets of the group.
.. thus would be
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
Two major options seem to be:
1) Big PMC that everyone is on, with the reality that we have
interest in various areas.
2) Promote projects to TLP.
2) is not realistic.
Why not? I don't agree that ALL projects should, but Henri didn't say
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 13:36:27 -0500
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
Henri Yandell wrote:
Two major options seem to be:
1) Big PMC that everyone is on, with the reality that we have
interest in various areas.
2) Promote projects to TLP.
2) is not realistic.
In HTTPD/APR world. mostly Apache MEMBERS = Apache COMMITTERS.
(OH, you pointed it our, 6 months ago ;-)!
You must mean HTTPD PMC Members ~= HTTPD Committers more ore less. Yes.
Size matters. This is obviously not feasible for Jakarta as we are
demonstrating so aptly.
You/I can see the
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:27:30 -0500
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
In HTTPD/APR world. mostly Apache MEMBERS = Apache COMMITTERS.
(OH, you pointed it our, 6 months ago ;-)!
You must mean HTTPD PMC Members ~= HTTPD Committers more ore less. Yes.
Obvious. HTTPD (Apache HTTP WebServer Project) does
- Original message
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:05:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
SNIP/
I never understand why you keep doing
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Ted Husted wrote:
Right now, the only plan seems to be to nominate committers one-by-one
on the PMC list. I'm just saying that we shouldn't play favorites. I
believe all Jakarta committers have already earned membership in the
PMC; we should tender the offer to every
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Ted Husted wrote:
- Original message
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:05:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
encourage TLP status
SNIP/
I never understand why you keep doing this. There is no 'schism'
between the PMC and the community, and no one is proposing it.
I hate to appeal to authority because the ASF charter does provide a
healthy bit of freedom for any given PMC, but for example, if we want
to follow
- Original message
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:05:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
SNIP/
Because the PMC would consist of those
- Original message
From: Costin Manolache [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:12:29 -0800
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
SNIP/
Ted, Stephen - you are free to propose or encourage any
On Dec 29, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Ted Husted wrote:
- Original message
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 16:05:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
We should trust the judgment of our community, let each committer
decide for themselves, and then Jakarta be whatever Jakarta wants to be.
+1 I totally agree, and I would hope that no one seriously holds any other view.
Concern about oversight has been flagged as an issue for us to address
+1!
On Dec 29, 2003, at 6:01 PM, Danny Angus wrote:
We should trust the judgment of our community, let each committer
decide for themselves, and then Jakarta be whatever Jakarta wants to
be.
+1 I totally agree, and I would hope that no one seriously holds any
other view.
Concern about
There has been considerable emphasis on this list over recent weeks for the
sticking plaster approach. That is to make small minor changes to Jakarta in
the hope the board will stop hassling us. This could be because this is the
consensus view and I'm an odd one out. Or it could be that those in
On Dec 28, 2003, at 9:39 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
There has been considerable emphasis on this list over recent weeks
for the
sticking plaster approach. That is to make small minor changes to
Jakarta in
the hope the board will stop hassling us.
The board isn't hassling. They have valid
.
- Original message
From: Stephen Colebourne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:39:30 +
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
There has been considerable emphasis on this list over recent
Geir,
I agree with everything that you said, except one. You have the idea that
when a project moves to TLP status it leaves Jakarta, and that saddens you.
You said the same thing when Logging was promoted, and Ceki tried to
reassure you that it wasn't going far.
Although I concur that projects
On Dec 28, 2003, at 10:50 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Geir,
I agree with everything that you said, except one. You have the idea
that
when a project moves to TLP status it leaves Jakarta, and that saddens
you.
In the above sentence, there is one correct statement :
.. when a project moves to
Colebourne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:39:30 +
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
There has been considerable emphasis on this list over recent weeks
for the
sticking plaster approach. That is to make small minor
I have added to the wiki
http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?JakartaPMCTopLevelProjectAppli
cation a section on board meeting dates (Jan 21st according to the
archives). (If anyone knows a better source, or more dates, please update
the wiki).
Any suggestions of someone who could comment
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:39:30 +
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
There has been considerable emphasis on this list over recent weeks
for the
sticking plaster approach. That is to make small minor changes
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What really saddens me is the idea of chasing them out the door.
To use an analogy, its like being the parents of a family, where the
children, aged from 4 to 40, are all living at home. It strikes me that it
isn't healthy for that 40 year old to be
- Original message
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 11:11:07 -0500
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
On Dec 28, 2003, at 10:25 AM, Ted Husted wrote
On Dec 28, 2003, at 11:26 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What really saddens me is the idea of chasing them out the door.
To use an analogy, its like being the parents of a family, where the
children, aged from 4 to 40, are all living at home. It strikes
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
it's good to see projects come out of Jakarta and continue
to grow, and it's sad to see them leave, like when leaving
a friend after a visit.
I understand. And I understand why you view Jakarta that way. Why do you
not feel that Jakarta could be an active community
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What really saddens me is the idea of chasing them out the door.
To use an analogy, its like being the parents of a family, where the
children, aged from 4 to 40, are all living at home. It strikes me that it
isn't healthy for
-project. Let others join in this...
-Ted.
- Original message
From: Stephen Colebourne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:39:30 +
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
There has
Costin Manolache wrote:
I see jakarta more like a union ( EU-style ), were the different
projects that joined are mature entities that choose to be part
of jakarta ( and can choose to get out - all that's needed is a
vote ). And the PMC role is to make sure the rules are respected
Project
-1
I don't think the PMC should be doing anything other than encouraging sub-projects to
*consider* TLP at this stage.
The proposal contains a number of detailed actions most of which I'd wholeheartedly
support as they will help sub-projects to consider pro's and con's of promotion.
However
On Dec 28, 2003, at 1:42 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
it's good to see projects come out of Jakarta and continue
to grow, and it's sad to see them leave, like when leaving
a friend after a visit.
I understand. And I understand why you view Jakarta that way. Why do
you
On Dec 28, 2003, at 3:44 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Costin Manolache wrote:
I see jakarta more like a union ( EU-style ), were the different
projects that joined are mature entities that choose to be part
of jakarta ( and can choose to get out - all that's needed is a
vote ). And the PMC role is
On Dec 28, 2003, at 3:49 PM, Danny Angus wrote:
-1
I don't think the PMC should be doing anything other than encouraging
sub-projects to *consider* TLP at this stage.
I don't even think they should do that. I don't think the PMC should
take a position either way. I don't think there should
General List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Received: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:39:30 +
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Proactively encourage TLP status
There has been considerable emphasis on this list over recent weeks
for the
sticking plaster approach. That is to make small minor changes to
Jakarta
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think a lot of what you say presupposed some sort of onerous
additional work that comes from being a part of the Jakarta PMC. I
would argue that it's no different - if you are providing oversight
independently of Jakarta or part of Jakarta, it's
On Dec 28, 2003, at 4:44 PM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think a lot of what you say presupposed some sort of onerous
additional work that comes from being a part of the Jakarta PMC. I
would argue that it's no different - if you are providing oversight
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
you haven't seen what the EU has been up to :) Talk about
over-regulation...
LOL :-) OK, so it is a bad analogy. I don't believe that either Costin or
I live in the EU.
The PMC is supposed to be performing the active management of one or
more projects, not
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We need to get that view corrected, because there is *nothing* that
states that every member of the PMC is *directly* responsible for ever
part of every code, doc, mail list and CVS usage in Jakarta, the key
word is directly.
As a PMC member, I should
I'll try to be brief. I agree w/ you - I don't want to have to watch
ever project. I'm also not interested in endless debate. I'm also not
interested in legislation, process or overbearing procedure. And I'm
not interested in breaking up Jakarta. All I want to do is get CLAs
signed and
On Dec 28, 2003, at 6:05 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
you haven't seen what the EU has been up to :) Talk about
over-regulation...
LOL :-) OK, so it is a bad analogy. I don't believe that either
Costin or
I live in the EU.
I don't either. I live in Connecticut, USA.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
You also can't get soft cheese at a reasonable temperature in a
restaurant under EU regs. They must keep them cold until being
served. Ug.
I can help you out on this particular subject!
No shortage of soft cheese ready for a stated day of delivery where live.
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
You also can't get soft cheese at a reasonable temperature in a
restaurant under EU regs. They must keep them cold until being
served. Ug.
I can help you out on this particular subject!
No shortage of soft cheese ready for a stated
you haven't seen what the EU has been up to :) Talk about
over-regulation...
LOL :-) OK, so it is a bad analogy. I don't believe that either
Costin or
I live in the EU.
I don't either. I live in Connecticut, USA.
I was always suspicious that something was amiss trying to
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
you haven't seen what the EU has been up to :) Talk about
over-regulation...
LOL :-) OK, so it is a bad analogy. I don't believe that either
Costin or
I live in the EU.
I don't either. I live in Connecticut, USA.
I was always suspicious that
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 02:45:18 +0100
Stephen McConnell wrote:
Perhaps the parallel is that a Struts 'citizen' identifies more with the
Struts 'country' than the Jakarta 'union'. Of course one key difference is
that we don't have the individual governments at the country/Struts level.
+100
-1
My knee jerk reaction to Proactively encourage TLP status is the same
as I had to one of my conservative friend who set out to
convert a family of another religion to their true religion. That is
repugnant to me, and so is Proactively encourage TLP status
If you want to make the information
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
We see a couple of things differently. For one, you don't seem to believe
that a community can be built by multiple collaborating PMCs.
I don't believe that the Apache vs Jakarta Commons analogy applies. AFAICS,
Apache Commons was an idea
Agreed on the -1 for the proposal's subject line, yet +1 to Stephen's
suggestions of preparing Wiki resources for Jakarta sub-projects that want
to move to TLP-ness.
I do plan to proactively encourage TLP status for Commons, but as a
Commons committer. As a Taglibs committer I'm happy where it
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