Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Correct - and here's something else to consider. DOS attacks have been on the rise this year, and it only seems they are getting worse. Having the server's favorites NOT tied to an IP address would also help mitigate these attacks. Consider this: If server favorites were tied to the server_identity_account_id instead of IP, if/when a server was on the receiving end of a DOS or DDOS attack, it would be possible tosimply launch that server on a different machine/IP address if necessary. Sure, it would add an expense of keeping a machine in reserve, but it would cost far less to do that than some of the DDOS mitigation hosts charge for hosting. Anyway - I sure would like to hear someone from Valve weigh in on this - is there any reason why this change CAN'T be implemented? From: peter-h...@jerde.net Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:01:55 -0500 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address It doesn't matter whether some datacenters are helpful about IP addresses or not... it's still the case that changing providers *always* results in loss of former IP addresses. The whole point of this thread is that it would be nice if Steam Server Favorites weren't tied to IPs, but instead to something more permanent, like server_identity_account_id. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
I hate to complain about any sort of non-ip favoriting, but using the server identification system is a bad choice. It would be simpler and easier to use DNS which was made for this purpose. - The main purpose of registration was to make it possible to punish owners by being able to ban all their servers at the same time, not really to track anything else. Statistics were already being tracked for unregistered servers. - The interface for managing registrations is clearly a hack job. There is no GUI and it is very awkward copying and pasting the information to config file. - As far as I know registration is only supported on TF2. Implementing DNS would allow other games to take advantage of non-ip favoriting with a minimal amount of modification. All they need is to add a single convar like sv_domain, and even that could be optional. - Given how frequently Steam goes down for planned and unplanned maintenance, relying on Steam to resolve ips is a mistake. On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: Correct - and here's something else to consider. DOS attacks have been on the rise this year, and it only seems they are getting worse. Having the server's favorites NOT tied to an IP address would also help mitigate these attacks. Consider this: If server favorites were tied to the server_identity_account_id instead of IP, if/when a server was on the receiving end of a DOS or DDOS attack, it would be possible to simply launch that server on a different machine/IP address if necessary. Sure, it would add an expense of keeping a machine in reserve, but it would cost far less to do that than some of the DDOS mitigation hosts charge for hosting. Anyway - I sure would like to hear someone from Valve weigh in on this - is there any reason why this change CAN'T be implemented? From: peter-h...@jerde.net Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:01:55 -0500 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address It doesn't matter whether some datacenters are helpful about IP addresses or not... it's still the case that changing providers *always* results in loss of former IP addresses. The whole point of this thread is that it would be nice if Steam Server Favorites weren't tied to IPs, but instead to something more permanent, like server_identity_account_id. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Requiring registration for all servers would be unnecessary. Instead, the client could just store the server's account ID instead of its IP address if it's registered. Valve wants people to register their servers to help them to track stuff better, but currently the only benefit to registration is Quickplay (and Halloween event participation 2 out of 52 weeks of the year). This would be a large benefit that would entice people to register even their custom map servers. Dr. McKay www.doctormckay.com On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: The change asked for in that thread would be good, but using the server registration would (IMHO) be much simpler. Heck, they could simply make an announcement that server registration will now be required for ALL servers (we don't bother with our custom map servers at the moment), implement a change that stores client favorites in the steam cloud, then run a database query/change that links the server in the favorites to the registration info instead of IP addess. -- Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:58:31 -0400 From: joewatshis...@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2756854 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. -- Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.comwrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. -- *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
“We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses.” I had the same experiences but ultimately got to keep the IP’s. It was a bit of a struggle, they’re usually saying something along the lines that it’s absolutely totally completely IMPOSSIBLE, which then gets changed to “Okay fine”. I really wish they’d go by dns names, or even use the server ID through the server registration instead of IP’s. - Spencer. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 9:04 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses. Management would say it's alright, then the rest of the company would deny it ever occurred and would just close the ticket feigning ignorance. The whole process would take about two days to get the addresses transferred to the new, in limbo server. Now they just charge everyone $20 per /29 block to move. I'm sure there are other horrible providers, that still do the former. Thanks, Kyle. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
If a datacenter tells you moving your IP space is impossible, they are flat out lying. If that was the case, how would they assign more IPs when you order them? Not a single datacenter we work with it has any issue bringing up our IPs anywhere on the their network. On 9/28/2013 11:48 AM, Spencer 'Voogru' MacDonald wrote: We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses. I had the same experiences but ultimately got to keep the IP's. It was a bit of a struggle, they're usually saying something along the lines that it's absolutely totally completely IMPOSSIBLE, which then gets changed to Okay fine. I really wish they'd go by dns names, or even use the server ID through the server registration instead of IP's. - Spencer. *From:*hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Kyle Sanderson *Sent:* Friday, September 27, 2013 9:04 AM *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses. Management would say it's alright, then the rest of the company would deny it ever occurred and would just close the ticket feigning ignorance. The whole process would take about two days to get the addresses transferred to the new, in limbo server. Now they just charge everyone $20 per /29 block to move. I'm sure there are other horrible providers, that still do the former. Thanks, Kyle. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net mailto:i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com mailto:thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
It doesn't matter whether some datacenters are helpful about IP addresses or not... it's still the case that changing providers *always* results in loss of former IP addresses. The whole point of this thread is that it would be nice if Steam Server Favorites weren't tied to IPs, but instead to something more permanent, like server_identity_account_id. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
For small customers (not GSPs), they don't want to deal with the hassle. For example, we''ve talked to NFO and they said they are unable to move IPs to a VPS because it is automated. When a server is provisioned their system probably automatically edits the routing table to point to the proper location. This can of course be done manually, but they still decline to do it. This concept extends to other hosts. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 1:51 PM, List User l...@redspeedservers.com wrote: If a datacenter tells you moving your IP space is impossible, they are flat out lying. If that was the case, how would they assign more IPs when you order them? Not a single datacenter we work with it has any issue bringing up our IPs anywhere on the their network. On 9/28/2013 11:48 AM, Spencer 'Voogru' MacDonald wrote: “We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses.” I had the same experiences but ultimately got to keep the IP’s. It was a bit of a struggle, they’re usually saying something along the lines that it’s absolutely totally completely IMPOSSIBLE, which then gets changed to “Okay fine”. ** ** I really wish they’d go by dns names, or even use the server ID through the server registration instead of IP’s. ** ** - Spencer. ** ** *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [ mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.comhlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Kyle Sanderson *Sent:* Friday, September 27, 2013 9:04 AM *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address ** ** We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses. Management would say it's alright, then the rest of the company would deny it ever occurred and would just close the ticket feigning ignorance. The whole process would take about two days to get the addresses transferred to the new, in limbo server. Now they just charge everyone $20 per /29 block to move. I'm sure there are other horrible providers, that still do the former. Thanks, Kyle. ** ** On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. ** ** Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.commailto: mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
* VPS = VDS * In a typical VPS setup, each host is assigned a block of IPs, and you are issued an IP from that block. So if you wanted to move your IP, they would need to move the whole block, and since they have other customers on that block, it's not happening. You could setup your network to where you can bring any IP, in any block, on any server, but as far as I know only SoftLayer runs that type of network. On 9/28/2013 5:57 PM, Bottiger wrote: For small customers (not GSPs), they don't want to deal with the hassle. For example, we''ve talked to NFO and they said they are unable to move IPs to a VPS because it is automated. When a server is provisioned their system probably automatically edits the routing table to point to the proper location. This can of course be done manually, but they still decline to do it. This concept extends to other hosts. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
IPs are assigned individually as far as I know on every OS. It is trivial to add and remove them individually and without rebooting the server. I have a server right now that has an IP in the 188.x.x.x netblock and another at 5.x.x.x. The issue is because hosts like to use /28 ip blocks in their internal routing table and having /32 blocks makes it look bad. That same line of reasoning has also been told to us for dedicated servers. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 4:28 PM, List User l...@redspeedservers.com wrote: * VPS = VDS * In a typical VPS setup, each host is assigned a block of IPs, and you are issued an IP from that block. So if you wanted to move your IP, they would need to move the whole block, and since they have other customers on that block, it's not happening. You could setup your network to where you can bring any IP, in any block, on any server, but as far as I know only SoftLayer runs that type of network. On 9/28/2013 5:57 PM, Bottiger wrote: For small customers (not GSPs), they don't want to deal with the hassle. For example, we''ve talked to NFO and they said they are unable to move IPs to a VPS because it is automated. When a server is provisioned their system probably automatically edits the routing table to point to the proper location. This can of course be done manually, but they still decline to do it. This concept extends to other hosts. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hldshttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses. Management would say it's alright, then the rest of the company would deny it ever occurred and would just close the ticket feigning ignorance. The whole process would take about two days to get the addresses transferred to the new, in limbo server. Now they just charge everyone $20 per /29 block to move. I'm sure there are other horrible providers, that still do the former. Thanks, Kyle. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. --**--** Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.commailto: mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. --**--** *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.**valvesoftware.comhlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
It depends a lot from the hoster. Usually they don't bother to go to the server room. They just move things over network to a server in another ip address and be done with it and wont bother change ip. Too much work and would mess up their network. Our hoster keeps our machine and IP that is assigned to it. Even if we change hardware, we get to keep the ip. I can see no reason to change it and our hoster does not either. I can see more reasons to keep it though. -ics Kyle Sanderson kirjoitti: We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses. Management would say it's alright, then the rest of the company would deny it ever occurred and would just close the ticket feigning ignorance. The whole process would take about two days to get the addresses transferred to the new, in limbo server. Now they just charge everyone $20 per /29 block to move. I'm sure there are other horrible providers, that still do the former. Thanks, Kyle. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net mailto:i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com mailto:thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
The issue in our case was the necessity to change providers/datacenters, which (of course) negated any chance of transferring IP's. I just wish we could get an official answer as to why this can or can't be done from Valve. There are a ton of great deals out therefor new hardware we would love to try, but we don't dare due to the traffic hit. Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:30:05 +0300 From: i...@ics-base.net To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address It depends a lot from the hoster. Usually they don't bother to go to the server room. They just move things over network to a server in another ip address and be done with it and wont bother change ip. Too much work and would mess up their network. Our hoster keeps our machine and IP that is assigned to it. Even if we change hardware, we get to keep the ip. I can see no reason to change it and our hoster does not either. I can see more reasons to keep it though. -ics Kyle Sanderson kirjoitti: We used to have to fight our provider pretty hard to retain our IP addresses. Management would say it's alright, then the rest of the company would deny it ever occurred and would just close the ticket feigning ignorance. The whole process would take about two days to get the addresses transferred to the new, in limbo server. Now they just charge everyone $20 per /29 block to move. I'm sure there are other horrible providers, that still do the former. Thanks, Kyle. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net mailto:i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com mailto:thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Find a good host and stick with them. Iv leased 20 or so IPs for 5 years now and have had 3 different hardware configurations. However it does suck to move when you are a smaller community. Sent from my iPhone 5 On Sep 26, 2013, at 10:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
I would agree, however there are circumstances that can prevent that. We've also been with a good host for over 5 years - but unfortunately, they were sold to a larger corporation last year, and their number of server options/packages have gone down, while their prices have gone up - which is why we started looking elsewhere in the first place. All we're really asking for is some flexibility that changing the favorites system to something more server-operator friendly would provide. The current system locks you into a single host/datacenter in perpetuity unless you are willing to start over again if/when you move. Frankly, it seems like it would be a relatively easy fix on Valve's part, and since there's a huge upside to allowing operators the flexibility to improve their hardware, I'm not sure why it hasn't already been addressed. Cmon, Valve. Help us out! CC: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com From: ad...@topnotchclan.com Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:53:55 -0700 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Find a good host and stick with them. Iv leased 20 or so IPs for 5 years now and have had 3 different hardware configurations. However it does suck to move when you are a smaller community. Sent from my iPhone 5 On Sep 26, 2013, at 10:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Yea I agree with this. Please do something about this. On 27 September 2013 20:38, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: I would agree, however there are circumstances that can prevent that. We've also been with a good host for over 5 years - but unfortunately, they were sold to a larger corporation last year, and their number of server options/packages have gone down, while their prices have gone up - which is why we started looking elsewhere in the first place. All we're really asking for is some flexibility that changing the favorites system to something more server-operator friendly would provide. The current system locks you into a single host/datacenter in perpetuity unless you are willing to start over again if/when you move. Frankly, it seems like it would be a relatively easy fix on Valve's part, and since there's a huge upside to allowing operators the flexibility to improve their hardware, I'm not sure why it hasn't already been addressed. Cmon, Valve. Help us out! CC: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com From: ad...@topnotchclan.com Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:53:55 -0700 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Find a good host and stick with them. Iv leased 20 or so IPs for 5 years now and have had 3 different hardware configurations. However it does suck to move when you are a smaller community. Sent from my iPhone 5 On Sep 26, 2013, at 10:33 PM, ics i...@ics-base.net wrote: upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server
[hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6 players, and they only fill up roughly 4-6 hours per day. And therein lies the problem. We did (we believe) what was absolutely the right thing in that we chose to upgrade our hardware solely for the purpose of giving our players a better, smoother, more state of the art gaming experience. The server runs wonderfully (3 full servers uses less than 7% CPU!), and the players who ARE playing on them regularly comment on the improvement to frame rate, stability, and map load times. The only thing on our end that changed as far as server configuration was the IP - and it has essentially KILLED the traffic to those servers, forcing us to basically start over from scratch trying to build our server traffic back up (and no, we don't run any of those atrocious MOTD ads or anything - our servers are supported by donations only). The fix, it would seem, would be relatively easy. Why not tie the server favorites to the server registration information instead? Connecting the favorites to IP address does nothing but prevent server operators from upgrading/moving to better equipment and/or datacenters, and severely limits the options we have to improve the gaming environments for our players. I, for one, won't be upgrading/moving anything else if it means I have to change IP addresses. It's simply not worth the traffic loss you incur as a result. Please make this a priority, Valve. The time has come. Thanks. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Is your email in enough different font sizes? ~ Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve. - Edward Lear On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6 players, and they only fill up roughly 4-6 hours per day. And therein lies the problem. We did (we believe) what was absolutely the right thing in that we chose to upgrade our hardware solely for the purpose of giving our players a better, smoother, more state of the art gaming experience. The server runs wonderfully (3 full servers uses less than 7% CPU!), and the players who ARE playing on them regularly comment on the improvement to frame rate, stability, and map load times. The only thing on our end that changed as far as server configuration was the IP - and it has essentially KILLED the traffic to those servers, forcing us to basically start over from scratch trying to build our server traffic back up (and no, we don't run any of those atrocious MOTD ads or anything - our servers are supported by donations only). The fix, it would seem, would be relatively easy. Why not tie the server favorites to the server registration information instead? Connecting the favorites to IP address does nothing but prevent server operators from upgrading/moving to better equipment and/or datacenters, and severely limits the options we have to improve the gaming environments for our players. I, for one, won't be upgrading/moving anything else if it means I have to change IP addresses. It's simply not worth the traffic loss you incur as a result. Please make this a priority, Valve. The time has come. Thanks. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. From: Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 Subject: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6 players, and they only fill up roughly 4-6 hours per day. And therein lies the problem. We did (we believe) what was absolutely the right thing in that we chose to upgrade our hardware solely for the purpose of giving our players a better, smoother, more state of the art gaming experience. The server runs wonderfully (3 full servers uses less than 7% CPU!), and the players who ARE playing on them regularly comment on the improvement to frame rate, stability, and map load times. The only thing on our end that changed as far as server configuration was the IP - and it has essentially KILLED the traffic to those servers, forcing us to basically start over from scratch trying to build our server traffic back up (and no, we don't run any of those atrocious MOTD ads or anything - our servers are supported by donations only). The fix, it would seem, would be relatively easy. Why not tie the server favorites to the server registration information instead? Connecting the favorites to IP address does nothing but prevent server operators from upgrading/moving to better equipment and/or datacenters, and severely limits the options we have to improve the gaming environments for our players. I, for one, won't be upgrading/moving anything else if it means I have to change IP addresses. It's simply not worth the traffic loss you incur as a result. Please make this a priority, Valve. The time has come. Thanks. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
Sorry about that - I'm not sure why outlook did that. From: asher...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:18:57 +0100 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Is your email in enough different font sizes? ~ Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve. - Edward Lear On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6 players, and they only fill up roughly 4-6 hours per day. And therein lies the problem. We did (we believe) what was absolutely the right thing in that we chose to upgrade our hardware solely for the purpose of giving our players a better, smoother, more state of the art gaming experience. The server runs wonderfully (3 full servers uses less than 7% CPU!), and the players who ARE playing on them regularly comment on the improvement to frame rate, stability, and map load times. The only thing on our end that changed as far as server configuration was the IP - and it has essentially KILLED the traffic to those servers, forcing us to basically start over from scratch trying to build our server traffic back up (and no, we don't run any of those atrocious MOTD ads or anything - our servers are supported by donations only). The fix, it would seem, would be relatively easy. Why not tie the server favorites to the server registration information instead? Connecting the favorites to IP address does nothing but prevent server operators from upgrading/moving to better equipment and/or datacenters, and severely limits the options we have to improve the gaming environments for our players. I, for one, won't be upgrading/moving anything else if it means I have to change IP addresses. It's simply not worth the traffic loss you incur as a result. Please make this a priority, Valve. The time has come. Thanks. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.comwrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. -- *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6 players, and they only fill up roughly 4-6 hours per day. And therein lies the problem. We did (we believe) what was absolutely the right thing in that we chose to upgrade our hardware solely for the purpose of giving our players a better, smoother, more state of the art gaming experience. The server runs wonderfully (3 full servers uses less than 7% CPU!), and the players who ARE playing on them regularly comment on the improvement to frame rate, stability, and map load times. The only thing on our end that changed as far as server configuration was the IP - and it has essentially KILLED the traffic to those servers, forcing us to basically start over from scratch trying to build our server traffic back up (and no, we don't run any of those atrocious MOTD ads or anything - our servers are supported by donations only). The fix, it would seem, would be relatively easy. Why not tie the server favorites to the server registration information instead? Connecting the favorites to IP address does nothing but prevent server operators from upgrading/moving to better equipment and/or datacenters, and severely limits the options we have to improve the gaming environments for our players. I, for one, won't be upgrading/moving anything else if it means I have to change IP addresses. It's simply not worth the traffic loss you incur as a result. Please make this a priority, Valve. The time has come. Thanks. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. From: Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 Subject: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6 players, and they only fill up roughly 4-6 hours per day. And therein lies the problem. We did (we believe) what was absolutely the right thing in that we chose to upgrade our hardware solely for the purpose of giving our players a better, smoother, more state of the art gaming experience. The server runs wonderfully (3 full servers uses less than 7% CPU!), and the players who ARE playing on them regularly comment on the improvement to frame rate, stability, and map load times. The only thing on our end that changed as far as server configuration was the IP - and it has essentially KILLED the traffic to those servers, forcing us to basically start over from scratch trying to build our server traffic back up (and no, we don't run any of those atrocious MOTD ads or anything - our servers are supported
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2756854 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. -- Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.comwrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. -- *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6 players, and they only fill up roughly 4-6 hours per day. And therein lies the problem. We did (we believe) what was absolutely the right thing in that we chose to upgrade our hardware solely for the purpose of giving our players a better, smoother, more state of the art gaming experience. The server runs wonderfully (3 full servers uses less than 7% CPU!), and the players who ARE playing on them regularly comment on the improvement to frame rate, stability, and map load times. The only thing on our end that changed as far as server configuration was the IP - and it has essentially KILLED
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
The change asked for in that thread would be good, but using the server registration would (IMHO) be much simpler. Heck, they could simply make an announcement that server registration will now be required for ALL servers (we don't bother with our custom map servers at the moment), implement a change that stores client favorites in the steam cloud, then run a database query/change that links the server in the favorites to the registration info instead of IP addess. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:58:31 -0400 From: joewatshis...@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2756854 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. From: Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 Subject: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
More important would be to offer a server black list in the cloud. Then there should also be a way for community groups and members to share or publish there favorite/black lists (in the name of serving the community of course). Also, are you suggesting that every time a server has an ip change the server op would have to update their registration info? Who will development and maintain this handy little piece of tech? Who will be maintaining this cloud database, would Valve have to hire DBA's to handle all this new data and where is the hardware for these DB servers going to come from? With potentially millions of clients each having a cloud favorites and blacklist wouldn't this query/change become burdensome and at the mercy of the server ops' whim of changing server ip and other information? Sounds like a not well thought out suggestion. Let us also NOT forget that we left out the custom map servers issues. From: jtrun...@outlook.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 18:11:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address The change asked for in that thread would be good, but using the server registration would (IMHO) be much simpler. Heck, they could simply make an announcement that server registration will now be required for ALL servers (we don't bother with our custom map servers at the moment), implement a change that stores client favorites in the steam cloud, then run a database query/change that links the server in the favorites to the registration info instead of IP addess. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 17:58:31 -0400 From: joewatshis...@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2756854 On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com wrote: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. From: Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 Subject: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After that 30 day period, we flipped the switch, and shutdown the old server, bringing the new ones online (the 1270v3 is ridiculously powerful, BTW). Now, these are servers which had previously stayed full for 18+ hours per day on a regular basis, with a 24-hour average population (according to HlStats) of 21 players. After the first 30 days, the 24-hour average is now down to 6
Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address
related: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Source-1-Games/issues/281 -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of ics Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 7:33 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address upgrading hardware doesn't always mean IP change. We have retained our IP's for years. But i'm all in for keeping my servers in users favorite lists in other methods too. -ics Jason Tango kirjoitti: I would definitely be curious to know how many server operators have decided against upgrading their hardware (which would be better for the overall game's userbase in the long run) for this very reason. Is it simply the difficulty of implementation? Or is Valve so close to releasing Source 2 (that may already have this implemented) that they think it's a waste of time? All I DO know is that I would have to recommend against changing IP's to anyone that doesn't absolutely have to. It's a disaster to your traffic. Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 14:33:59 -0700 From: thepauls...@gmail.com To: mreeu...@yahoo.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address I said this a month ago and I explained why it would be much easier and better for Valve to implement DNS instead of tying it to the server registration system. When people upgrade you usually change hosts because the old ones have gone bad so you cannot keep IPs. My experience with most hosts is that they may let you upgrade your server, but they will not fix their network providers, add ddos protection, or reduce your costs so you stop paying $200/month because that was the standard price 4 years ago. I think what we need to do in order to get this implemented is to understand why Valve has ignored this request for so long. This isn't rocket science or as difficult as implementing Source3, so the problem must be because Valve doesn't think this will improve anything. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk mreeu...@yahoo.com mailto:mreeu...@yahoo.com wrote: The only way to truly move is keeping the old servers for a while, and point those to the new servers so they can connect and favorite them. having a turnover time without paralel, would give no incentive to the players to add those IP's. I do agree a solution would really be nice to keep your playerbase of a server. I even proposed various workings for that (via steam group memberships to have a specific tab / option to show them in favs). But its been on deaf ears for years now. Also, I never hear anybody about having a chat with the hoster / datacenter to move the IP's to the new machines. *From:* Jason Tango jtrun...@outlook.com mailto:jtrun...@outlook.com *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com hlds@list.valvesoftware.com mailto:hlds@list.valvesoftware.com *Sent:* Thursday, 26 September 2013, 22:11 *Subject:* [hlds] Problems caused by connecting server favorites to IP address Hello, I know this has been brought up many, many timesbut it would seem that with the maturity of the server registration system that Valve is now in a perfect position to fix this issue which both negatively impacts long-established servers, AND prevents server operators from moving to better/improved hardware. I'm talking about the way server favorites work in the server browser. Specifically, the fact that if - for any reason - a server operator needs to change their server's IP address, it disappears from all the users clients who have added it to their favorites over the years. That may not seem like a big deal, but it absolutely IS. It takes months and years to build up a strong base of server regulars, and that base is virtually destroyed if you change that server's IP address. For examplewe recently had the opportunity to acquire hardware at a significant discount at another server provider that was a significant upgrade from our current hardware (from a Q9400 to a E3-1270v3 with a samsung Pro SSD) for the same price we were currently paying per month. Wanting to give our players the best possible experience, so we decided to make the move. To prepare, we ran a message for 30 days on the current servers informing the players the servers were moving (and the new address). After
