Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Susan Shumway]

Strange! Well, good to know that it's merely buggy, not completely 
busted. There's hope yet!


On 07/12/16 11:52 AM, Styles, Andy , SD EP zPlatform wrote:

Funny - this week, the icon has magically appeared :-)


Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer


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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

Funny - this week, the icon has magically appeared :-)


Andy Styles 
z/Series Systems Programmer
 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)
Sent: 07 July 2016 16:11
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

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It's not visible - if I mouse over the place I know it to be, a tool tip pops 
up to tell me that it expands/hides the TOC. 

Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer 
 
 


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Of Sue Shumway
Sent: 07 July 2016 15:53
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

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Are you saying that the icon isn't visible at all on IE, or just as easy to 
miss as on any other browser? I opened 
http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2/en/homepage.html
 in both FF and IE, and they look technically the same on both, though I 
certainly realize that individual circumstances differ.

Per https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2GF0UFHIYG9VQ , Kindles currently 
support unzipped and validated ePubs and only those Mobis that are created with 
Amazon tools such as KindleGen. So, I believe that your Kindle, if you were in 
a pinch and had to use it, would be able to read a z/OS book in ePub format. 
It's a pretty widely-accepted format, and similar (even superior) to PDFs in 
many respects as long as you have a good reader.
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Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

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Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[David Crayford]

On 12/07/2016 11:56 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

I stumbled on a browser called Lobo, written in Java.  It sucks on any
platform I've tried it on; not worth agitating my admins to get X11 working
on z/OS so I can see whether it compatibly sucks there, also.


I've get to see an X11 application running on a mainframe that doesn't suck!

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Timothy Sipples]

Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>I stumbled on a browser called Lobo, written in Java.

Lobo development stopped in 2009. Lobo Evolution and gngr are two of Lobo's
successors:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/loboevolution/
https://gngr.info

Back to the John's point, the fact 3270 terminal emulation software
exists is "interesting" but not quite responsive to John McKown's stated
requirements. Here's what John asked:

>Am I being too "reactionary" in wanting to have my documentation
>on the same system as it is documenting? I.e. z/OS documentation
>on z/OS needing only access to z/OS without any other "specialized"
>software on a "desktop"?

The IBM Knowledge Center for z/OS running locally on at least one machine
beautifully addresses these requirements, as stated, in their entirety. The
IBM Knowledge Center for z/OS is part of the base z/OS operating system
(Version 2.2, and presumably in future releases also), and it runs on z/OS
itself -- right alongside TSO/E and ISPF, as examples. You need zero
specialized desktop software to access(*) documentation available from the
IBM Knowledge Center for z/OS. No extra software at all, in fact. There's
no need to install *anything* on your client device(s), not even 3270
terminal emulation software, not even a browser plug-in or helper
application. Just use the Web browser provided with your desktop, laptop,
smartphone, or tablet operating system of any relatively recent (or even
non-recent) vintage. Any/every client device should be ready-to-go, out of
the box, to tap into your locally z/OS-served repository of IBM Knowledge
Center goodness.

John's use case is well answered, already, at no additional charge. Please
enjoy.

(*) IBM Softcopy Librarian, also available at no additional charge, is at
least recommended to deploy and maintain documentation libraries to/on the
IBM Knowledge Center for z/OS. IBM Softcopy Librarian runs on Windows PCs.
(If you'd like IBM to provide Macintosh and Linux installable versions of
IBM Softcopy Librarian, you can file a request here:
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/ ) For more information on IBM
Softcopy Librarian, including the download link, please visit:

http://www.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg24040422


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Linda]

Hi Gil,

Just for grins, I took a look on the iPhone App Store and found Glink 3270 - 
both regular and light versions. I haven't tried it at all.  

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 11, 2016, at 8:56 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
> <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 11:36:01 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote:
>> 
>> Frank Swarbrick wrote:
>>> Doesn't that still require a browser?
>> 
>> Yes. And a human being with reasonable reading comprehension, too. There
>> are some inescapable prerequisites.
>> 
>> Fortunately, so far as I'm aware, there isn't any desktop, laptop,
>> smartphone, or tablet operating system that ships without a Web browser.
>> Every desktop, laptop, smartphone, and tablet operating system introduced
>> within the past decade and a half, at least, includes a Web browser. In
>> contrast, sadly, there are many desktop, laptop, smartphone, and tablet
>> operating systems that don't include 3270 terminal emulators. All of them,
>> as far as I know.
> OTOH, for Mac OS, Linux, and Cygwin they're very easy to get, at a very
> attractive price.
> 
> (What about Raspberry Pi?  Does anyone know?  Google gives lots of hits,
> but in the end, the links are all broken.  Maybe I should compile one.)
> 
> On the Gripping Hand, if the programmer suffers the delusion that he can
> use only a coax-wired 327x, he's SOL.
> 
> I stumbled on a browser called Lobo, written in Java.  It sucks on any
> platform I've tried it on; not worth agitating my admins to get X11 working
> on z/OS so I can see whether it compatibly sucks there, also.
> 
> -- gil
> 
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 11:36:01 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote:

>Frank Swarbrick wrote:
>>Doesn't that still require a browser?
>
>Yes. And a human being with reasonable reading comprehension, too. There
>are some inescapable prerequisites.
>
>Fortunately, so far as I'm aware, there isn't any desktop, laptop,
>smartphone, or tablet operating system that ships without a Web browser.
>Every desktop, laptop, smartphone, and tablet operating system introduced
>within the past decade and a half, at least, includes a Web browser. In
>contrast, sadly, there are many desktop, laptop, smartphone, and tablet
>operating systems that don't include 3270 terminal emulators. All of them,
>as far as I know.
>
OTOH, for Mac OS, Linux, and Cygwin they're very easy to get, at a very
attractive price.

(What about Raspberry Pi?  Does anyone know?  Google gives lots of hits,
but in the end, the links are all broken.  Maybe I should compile one.)

On the Gripping Hand, if the programmer suffers the delusion that he can
use only a coax-wired 327x, he's SOL.

I stumbled on a browser called Lobo, written in Java.  It sucks on any
platform I've tried it on; not worth agitating my admins to get X11 working
on z/OS so I can see whether it compatibly sucks there, also.

-- gil

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Timothy Sipples]

Frank Swarbrick wrote:
>Doesn't that still require a browser?

Yes. And a human being with reasonable reading comprehension, too. There
are some inescapable prerequisites.

Fortunately, so far as I'm aware, there isn't any desktop, laptop,
smartphone, or tablet operating system that ships without a Web browser.
Every desktop, laptop, smartphone, and tablet operating system introduced
within the past decade and a half, at least, includes a Web browser. In
contrast, sadly, there are many desktop, laptop, smartphone, and tablet
operating systems that don't include 3270 terminal emulators. All of them,
as far as I know.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: /usr/lpp/java/common (was: IBM Knowledge Centre)

[Jousma, David]

By PTF.  Here is current maint on my system.  I didn’t create these symlinks.   
However had already done this at our shop long ago (different symlinks), for 
the very same reason.   Except, that I get to control when the symlinks change.

TEC1:$ cd /RSM01A/usr/lpp/java  
 
TEC1:$ ls -al   
 
total 96
 
drwxr-xr-x   6 P0SJROMVSGRP 8192 Jul  5 10:43 . 
 
drwxr-xr-x  42 P0SJROMVSGRP 8192 Jan 26 14:35 ..
 
drwxr-xr-x  12 P0SJROMVSGRP 8192 Apr 22 04:01 J7.1  
 
drwxr-xr-x  12 P0SJROMVSGRP 8192 Apr 22 04:07 J7.1_64   
 
drwxr-xr-x  12 P0SJROMVSGRP 8192 Apr 28 00:44 J8.0  
 
drwxr-xr-x  12 P0SJROMVSGRP 8192 Apr 28 00:46 J8.0_64   
 
lrwxrwxrwx   1 P0SJROMVSGRP   28 Feb  8 10:31 current -> 
/RSM02A/usr/lpp/java/J8.0_64
lrwxrwxrwx   1 P0SJROMVSGRP   25 Jul  5 10:43 current_31 -> 
/RSM01A/usr/lpp/java/J8.0
lrwxrwxrwx   1 P0SJROMVSGRP   28 Jul  5 10:43 current_64 -> 
/RSM01A/usr/lpp/java/J8.0_64

_
Dave Jousma
Manager Mainframe Engineering, Assistant Vice President
david.jou...@53.com
1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB2H
p 616.653.8429
f 616.653.2717

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 12:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: /usr/lpp/java/common (was: IBM Knowledge Centre)

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 08:31:55 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote:

>John McKown wrote:
>>Am I being too "reactionary" ...?
>
>IBM doesn't think so:
>
>https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2
>r2.hkcz100/kczos043.htm
>
>That link is specifically for z/OS 2.2. Refer to "KC-CI."
> 
That page indirectly refers to a particular java version.  Lately, IBM in a PTF 
I can't find, stabilized the path to java as a symlink from 
/usr/lpp/java/current
(finally!) .

Will that be maintained by any PTF that updates java, or will that, like the 
contents of /etc, be considered the prerogative of the site administrator?)

Will Pubs do a sweep for mentions of particular java versions and substitute 
"current" as was done (mostly) when "dataset" was standardized as "data set"?

(For consistency with the mode, it should be /usr/bin/java -- When in Rome do 
as the Romans do.  Or perhaps pack your bags for India.)

-- gil

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Frank Swarbrick]

Doesn't that still require a browser?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of 
Timothy Sipples <sipp...@sg.ibm.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2016 6:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

John McKown wrote:
>Am I being too "reactionary" in wanting to have my documentation
>on the same system as it is documenting? I.e. z/OS documentation
>on z/OS needing only access to z/OS without any other
>"specialized" software on a "desktop"?

IBM doesn't think so:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.hkcz100/kczos043.htm
Overview of Knowledge Center for z/OS - 
IBM<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.hkcz100/kczos043.htm>
www.ibm.com
Knowledge Center for z/OS provides the ability to display, navigate and search 
content in a manner similar to Knowledge Center on the IBM Support site.



That link is specifically for z/OS 2.2. Refer to "KC-CI."


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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/usr/lpp/java/common (was: IBM Knowledge Centre)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 08:31:55 +0800, Timothy Sipples wrote:

>John McKown wrote:
>>Am I being too "reactionary" ...?
>
>IBM doesn't think so:
>
>https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.hkcz100/kczos043.htm
>
>That link is specifically for z/OS 2.2. Refer to "KC-CI."
> 
That page indirectly refers to a particular java version.  Lately, IBM in a PTF
I can't find, stabilized the path to java as a symlink from 
/usr/lpp/java/current
(finally!) .

Will that be maintained by any PTF that updates java, or will that, like the
contents of /etc, be considered the prerogative of the site administrator?)

Will Pubs do a sweep for mentions of particular java versions and substitute
"current" as was done (mostly) when "dataset" was standardized as
"data set"?

(For consistency with the mode, it should be /usr/bin/java -- When in Rome
do as the Romans do.  Or perhaps pack your bags for India.)

-- gil

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[John McKown]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Timothy Sipples  wrote:

> John McKown wrote:
> >Am I being too "reactionary" in wanting to have my documentation
> >on the same system as it is documenting? I.e. z/OS documentation
> >on z/OS needing only access to z/OS without any other
> >"specialized" software on a "desktop"?
>
> IBM doesn't think so:
>
>
> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.hkcz100/kczos043.htm
>
> That link is specifically for z/OS 2.2. Refer to "KC-CI."
>
>
​Many thanks. I've bookmarked that. ​


-- 
"Pessimism is a admirable quality in an engineer. Pessimistic people check
their work three times, because they're sure that something won't be right.
Optimistic people check once, trust in Solis-de to keep the ship safe, then
blow everyone up."
"I think you're mistaking the word optimistic for inept."
"They've got a similar ring to my ear."

>From "Star Nomad" by Lindsay Buroker:

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Timothy Sipples]

John McKown wrote:
>Am I being too "reactionary" in wanting to have my documentation
>on the same system as it is documenting? I.e. z/OS documentation
>on z/OS needing only access to z/OS without any other
>"specialized" software on a "desktop"?

IBM doesn't think so:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.hkcz100/kczos043.htm

That link is specifically for z/OS 2.2. Refer to "KC-CI."


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2016-07-08, at 07:29, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) wrote:

> I see no reason to 'edit' an ibm publication ...
>  
A while ago there was a debate hereabouts on whether customers
should install ISV software according to the vendors' suggested
DSN qualifiers or according to customers' naming conventions.
I supported the prior alternative:

"Skills should be portable.  Uniformity makes communication
with vendors' Tech Support simpler."

"Ya gotta have standards.  Enforcing site conventions simplifies
employee training."

"Using idiosyncratic names invalidates instructions and examples
in the documentation, even supplied sample JCL."

"If the docs are in electronic form, they and the samples can be
edited to reflect the site conventions."

Sigh.  And re-done with each new release.

> .. but I do frequently use highlight and add notes to pdf's which I maintain 
> local copies of. I don't think I can do that with all e-pub readers. Now if 
> the KC would allow annotations - perhaps community comments (moderated of 
> course) then that would be very helpful - like a community RCF).
>  
I believe that some recent iteration of KC supported such a facility.


> -Original Message-
> From: John McKown
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 8:22 AM
> 
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Nims,Alva John (Al) wrote:
> 
>> ...  I believe that PDFs can be 
>> protected from being "Edited" and still allow it to be read without 
>> having to enter a password, ...
>>  
  Lately an emerita of a public institution sought my help with
a request for benefits changes that had been emailed to her as a PDF.
It could be opened *only* with Adobe Reader; any other viewer showed
simply a page explaining the need for AR; the payload was somehow concealed.
It could be edited to supply responses, but *only* with AR.  Making
a change brought up an Alert that the edited document could *not* be
saved, only printed.  Tested; they spoke sooth.  Tried to print it;
got an alert saying I needed to filter it to a .doc(!?) in order to print.
This is a MacBook Pro.  The OS X Print dialog has always provided a
Print to PDF option.  OK.  Ignored the AR print button and selected Print
from the OS X menu bar.  AR intercepted and supplied an altered Print
dialog with Print to PDF disabled.  Went back to the AR print command
and clicked Help and got an invitation to license the PDF-to-.doc
filter from Creative Cloud for $1.99/month.

Gave up; took it on USB Flash to Kinko's who printed 2 copies of 13
pages, collated, for $0.05/page.  I invited her to fill it out with
a ballpoint pen and mail it back (only USPS as instructed; no
electronic submissions accepted).

Bandits!  Steve didn't like Adobe very much, either.  

> 
> ... Hum, does IBM allow you to copy an unmodified PDF which is "generally 
> available" via the web and give it to another person?  ...
>  
I believe the ToS say "Customers only".

-- gil

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Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Susan Shumway]

Good to know, Peter. Thank you and noted.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[John McKown]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Pew, Curtis G 
wrote:

> On Jul 8, 2016, at 7:33 AM, John McKown 
> wrote:
> >
> > I still maintain that my preference is for a textual "source" format such
> > as LaTeX being the official format. With IBM rendering that into PDF,
> mobi,
> > epub, and HTML5 as part of its distribution process. I like PDF. I really
> > do. But the original design objective for PDF, as mentioned previously,
> is
> > "print fidelity". That is, it __looks__ the same. In my world, content
> (not
> > appearance) is king. LaTeX is basically a textual "mark up" language,
> like
> > DCF (SGML). So I can store it on z/OS and actually read it (and
> > cut'n'paste) in an ISPF session. Am I being too "reactionary" in wanting
> to
> > have my documentation on the same system as it is documenting? I.e. z/OS
> > documentation on z/OS needing only access to z/OS without any other
> > "specialized" software on a "desktop"? I also like having said
> > documentation in a z/OS UNIX file because: (1) the file names can be more
> > descriptive due to being longer; (2) I'm used to searching for text using
> > "egrep" and regular expressions. Seems like a person will either "love"
> > (me) regexps or "passionately hate" them.
>
> An ePUB document is just a zip archive containing HTML documents,
> supporting files like CSS, fonts, and images, and some metadata files. You
> can unzip it and then view the contents in a regular web browser, or even a
> text editor. “egrep” should work over the unzipped contents.
>

​I didn't know that! Thanks very much. ​


>
> --
> Pew, Curtis G
> curtis@austin.utexas.edu
> ITS Systems/Core/Administrative Services
>
>

-- 
"Pessimism is a admirable quality in an engineer. Pessimistic people check
their work three times, because they're sure that something won't be right.
Optimistic people check once, trust in Solis-de to keep the ship safe, then
blow everyone up."
"I think you're mistaking the word optimistic for inept."
"They've got a similar ring to my ear."

>From "Star Nomad" by Lindsay Buroker:

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

Actually, I think you are correct, my use of "Copyright" was wrong, but I think 
that the sentiment is the same and protecting the "Integrity" of the 
information contained in the document is just as important.

I like the additional information you have provided and you know that IBM has 
the Lawyers involved, so ..

Al Nims
University of Florida

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 9:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu> wrote:

> I like your comments about ePubs and PDF, with the respect of readers 
> being available for multiple platforms.
>
> Now looking at it from IBM's point-of-view and "Copyright" material, 
> are ePubs a little easier to "Edit" than a PDF?  I really do not know 
> that answer, that is why I am asking.  I believe that PDFs can be 
> protected from being "Edited" and still allow it to be read without 
> having to enter a password, is there something similar for ePubs?  I 
> do not know how much protection can be done in an ePub and again, I 
> "Think" my statement about PDFs is correct, but I have been known to 
> be wrong before! :)
>

​I understand your question. But I don't understand why IBM would want to stop 
someone from "editing" a PDF. Well, I do in a way, to maintain integrity of the 
information. But so far as copyright is concerned, unless allowed, it is 
illegal to make a copy of a "book" (PDF document in this
case) and re-distribute it. Back in the "dead tree" days, there wasn't anything 
that stopped a person with a pen or mark-up pen from "editing" a manual. And 
then they could (physically) make a copy of those pages and distribute them. Of 
course, the edits were a bit obvious. Hum, does IBM allow you to copy an 
unmodified PDF which is "generally available" via the web and give it to 
another person? I know that some web publishers are saying that "deep linking" 
to an article on their site is a copyright violation. They want users to go to 
their home page and then click-through to the article for ad revenue. Again, 
IMO, this "webvertising"​ was thought up in the lower regions of the place of 
eternal damnation. I get this a lot on my comics sites. I'd rather pay a 
distributor to email the comics I like directly to me. Or make a personal 
comics page specifically for me which requires a "key" of some sort (my bank 
does this - won't allow access by a computer unless the computer has the "key" 
installed).



>
> Al Nims
> University of Flordia
>
>
--
"Pessimism is a admirable quality in an engineer. Pessimistic people check 
their work three times, because they're sure that something won't be right.
Optimistic people check once, trust in Solis-de to keep the ship safe, then 
blow everyone up."
"I think you're mistaking the word optimistic for inept."
"They've got a similar ring to my ear."

From "Star Nomad" by Lindsay Buroker:

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Pew, Curtis G]

On Jul 8, 2016, at 7:33 AM, John McKown  wrote:
> 
> I still maintain that my preference is for a textual "source" format such
> as LaTeX being the official format. With IBM rendering that into PDF, mobi,
> epub, and HTML5 as part of its distribution process. I like PDF. I really
> do. But the original design objective for PDF, as mentioned previously, is
> "print fidelity". That is, it __looks__ the same. In my world, content (not
> appearance) is king. LaTeX is basically a textual "mark up" language, like
> DCF (SGML). So I can store it on z/OS and actually read it (and
> cut'n'paste) in an ISPF session. Am I being too "reactionary" in wanting to
> have my documentation on the same system as it is documenting? I.e. z/OS
> documentation on z/OS needing only access to z/OS without any other
> "specialized" software on a "desktop"? I also like having said
> documentation in a z/OS UNIX file because: (1) the file names can be more
> descriptive due to being longer; (2) I'm used to searching for text using
> "egrep" and regular expressions. Seems like a person will either "love"
> (me) regexps or "passionately hate" them.

An ePUB document is just a zip archive containing HTML documents, supporting 
files like CSS, fonts, and images, and some metadata files. You can unzip it 
and then view the contents in a regular web browser, or even a text editor. 
“egrep” should work over the unzipped contents.

-- 
Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu
ITS Systems/Core/Administrative Services


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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA)]

I see no reason to 'edit' an ibm publication but I do frequently use highlight 
and add notes to pdf's which I maintain local copies of. I don't think I can do 
that with all e-pub readers. Now if the KC would allow annotations - perhaps 
community comments (moderated of course) then that would be very helpful - like 
a community RCF).

--
Lionel B. Dyck (TRA Contractor)
Mainframe Systems Programmer 
Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10)
VA OI Service Delivery & Engineering


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 8:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Nims,Alva John (Al) <ajn...@ufl.edu> wrote:

> I like your comments about ePubs and PDF, with the respect of readers 
> being available for multiple platforms.
>
> Now looking at it from IBM's point-of-view and "Copyright" material, 
> are ePubs a little easier to "Edit" than a PDF?  I really do not know 
> that answer, that is why I am asking.  I believe that PDFs can be 
> protected from being "Edited" and still allow it to be read without 
> having to enter a password, is there something similar for ePubs?  I 
> do not know how much protection can be done in an ePub and again, I 
> "Think" my statement about PDFs is correct, but I have been known to 
> be wrong before! :)
>

​I understand your question. But I don't understand why IBM would want to stop 
someone from "editing" a PDF. Well, I do in a way, to maintain integrity of the 
information. But so far as copyright is concerned, unless allowed, it is 
illegal to make a copy of a "book" (PDF document in this
case) and re-distribute it. Back in the "dead tree" days, there wasn't anything 
that stopped a person with a pen or mark-up pen from "editing" a manual. And 
then they could (physically) make a copy of those pages and distribute them. Of 
course, the edits were a bit obvious. Hum, does IBM allow you to copy an 
unmodified PDF which is "generally available" via the web and give it to 
another person? I know that some web publishers are saying that "deep linking" 
to an article on their site is a copyright violation. They want users to go to 
their home page and then click-through to the article for ad revenue. Again, 
IMO, this "webvertising"​ was thought up in the lower regions of the place of 
eternal damnation. I get this a lot on my comics sites. I'd rather pay a 
distributor to email the comics I like directly to me. Or make a personal 
comics page specifically for me which requires a "key" of some sort (my bank 
does this - won't allow access by a computer unless the computer has the "key" 
installed).



>
> Al Nims
> University of Flordia
>
>
--
"Pessimism is a admirable quality in an engineer. Pessimistic people check 
their work three times, because they're sure that something won't be right.
Optimistic people check once, trust in Solis-de to keep the ship safe, then 
blow everyone up."
"I think you're mistaking the word optimistic for inept."
"They've got a similar ring to my ear."

From "Star Nomad" by Lindsay Buroker:

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

--
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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[John McKown]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Nims,Alva John (Al)  wrote:

> I like your comments about ePubs and PDF, with the respect of readers
> being available for multiple platforms.
>
> Now looking at it from IBM's point-of-view and "Copyright" material, are
> ePubs a little easier to "Edit" than a PDF?  I really do not know that
> answer, that is why I am asking.  I believe that PDFs can be protected from
> being "Edited" and still allow it to be read without having to enter a
> password, is there something similar for ePubs?  I do not know how much
> protection can be done in an ePub and again, I "Think" my statement about
> PDFs is correct, but I have been known to be wrong before! :)
>

​I understand your question. But I don't understand why IBM would want to
stop someone from "editing" a PDF. Well, I do in a way, to maintain
integrity of the information. But so far as copyright is concerned, unless
allowed, it is illegal to make a copy of a "book" (PDF document in this
case) and re-distribute it. Back in the "dead tree" days, there wasn't
anything that stopped a person with a pen or mark-up pen from "editing" a
manual. And then they could (physically) make a copy of those pages and
distribute them. Of course, the edits were a bit obvious. Hum, does IBM
allow you to copy an unmodified PDF which is "generally available" via the
web and give it to another person? I know that some web publishers are
saying that "deep linking" to an article on their site is a copyright
violation. They want users to go to their home page and then click-through
to the article for ad revenue. Again, IMO, this "webvertising"​ was thought
up in the lower regions of the place of eternal damnation. I get this a lot
on my comics sites. I'd rather pay a distributor to email the comics I like
directly to me. Or make a personal comics page specifically for me which
requires a "key" of some sort (my bank does this - won't allow access by a
computer unless the computer has the "key" installed).



>
> Al Nims
> University of Flordia
>
>
-- 
"Pessimism is a admirable quality in an engineer. Pessimistic people check
their work three times, because they're sure that something won't be right.
Optimistic people check once, trust in Solis-de to keep the ship safe, then
blow everyone up."
"I think you're mistaking the word optimistic for inept."
"They've got a similar ring to my ear."

>From "Star Nomad" by Lindsay Buroker:

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Nims,Alva John (Al)]

I like your comments about ePubs and PDF, with the respect of readers being 
available for multiple platforms.

Now looking at it from IBM's point-of-view and "Copyright" material, are ePubs 
a little easier to "Edit" than a PDF?  I really do not know that answer, that 
is why I am asking.  I believe that PDFs can be protected from being "Edited" 
and still allow it to be read without having to enter a password, is there 
something similar for ePubs?  I do not know how much protection can be done in 
an ePub and again, I "Think" my statement about PDFs is correct, but I have 
been known to be wrong before! :)

Al Nims
University of Flordia

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2016 4:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

Which platform doesn't support ePubs?

I agree with comments others have made regarding consistent formatting of PDFs 
(at least, when the authors embed the fonts anyway), and the different aims of 
PDF vs e-reader formats (whatever they might be, excluding PDF!).

I've got readers for Android, Windows and Linux. I don't have an Apple device 
so can't comment on OSX or iOS, but I'd be extremely surprised if there wasn't 
one. For my money, ePubs are usually smaller than their PDF counterparts.

Like you, I don't really care one way or the other, but what I do want is an 
usable, fast, and intuitive interface to the manuals on the IBM site - I don't 
really have a need for manuals offline, because if I've got a connection to a 
mainframe, I'll have internet access as well. 

Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer
 
 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Peter Hunkeler
Sent: 08 July 2016 09:13
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
 

>Just out of curiosity, if ePubs of z/OS books provided all the same 
>functionalities as PDFs (same technical content, same methods for 
>obtaining/saving, etc.), plus had added benefits such as visual scaling and 
>accessibility, would you still be so adamant about keeping PDFs? 




Basically I don't care what format is used, what I *do care* is that I want one 
format for which there is a reader on just about any platform. I do not want to 
keep the same book in different formats for different platforms. As a matter of 
fact, there are PDF readers available on all platforms (at least I now about 
Linux, iOS, OSX, Windows, Android).


--
Peter Hunkeler





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Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[John McKown]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 3:13 AM, Peter Hunkeler  wrote:

> >Just out of curiosity, if ePubs of z/OS books provided all the same
> functionalities as PDFs (same technical content, same methods for
> obtaining/saving, etc.), plus had added benefits such as visual scaling and
> accessibility, would you still be so adamant about keeping PDFs?
>
> Basically I don't care what format is used, what I *do care* is that I
> want one format for which there is a reader on just about any platform. I
> do not want to keep the same book in different formats for different
> platforms. As a matter of fact, there are PDF readers available on all
> platforms (at least I now about Linux, iOS, OSX, Windows, Android).
>

I still maintain that my preference is for a textual "source" format such
as LaTeX being the official format. With IBM rendering that into PDF, mobi,
epub, and HTML5 as part of its distribution process. I like PDF. I really
do. But the original design objective for PDF, as mentioned previously, is
"print fidelity". That is, it __looks__ the same. In my world, content (not
appearance) is king. LaTeX is basically a textual "mark up" language, like
DCF (SGML). So I can store it on z/OS and actually read it (and
cut'n'paste) in an ISPF session. Am I being too "reactionary" in wanting to
have my documentation on the same system as it is documenting? I.e. z/OS
documentation on z/OS needing only access to z/OS without any other
"specialized" software on a "desktop"? I also like having said
documentation in a z/OS UNIX file because: (1) the file names can be more
descriptive due to being longer; (2) I'm used to searching for text using
"egrep" and regular expressions. Seems like a person will either "love"
(me) regexps or "passionately hate" them.


> --
> Peter Hunkeler
>


-- 
"Pessimism is a admirable quality in an engineer. Pessimistic people check
their work three times, because they're sure that something won't be right.
Optimistic people check once, trust in Solis-de to keep the ship safe, then
blow everyone up."
"I think you're mistaking the word optimistic for inept."
"They've got a similar ring to my ear."

>From "Star Nomad" by Lindsay Buroker:

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

--
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Pew, Curtis G]

On Jul 8, 2016, at 3:36 AM, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) 
<00d68f765d25-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> I've got readers for Android, Windows and Linux. I don't have an Apple device 
> so can't comment on OSX or iOS, but I'd be extremely surprised if there 
> wasn't one. For my money, ePubs are usually smaller than their PDF 
> counterparts.

Apple’s iBooks app, installed by default in OS X and iOS, is an ePUB reader. 
You can get calibre on OS X as well.

-- 
Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu
ITS Systems/Core/Administrative Services


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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Peter Hunkeler]

Sue Shumway wrote:
> I *highly* recommend that all KC users, even IBMers, view it: 
> http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/about/videotour.mp4 .)


I just watched that video. Well worth watching. I'm getting to like the new KC 
more and more.


But still I want the possibility to download the books for offline reading.


--
Peter Hunkeler

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AW: Re: AW: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Peter Hunkeler]

>> What I absoultely dislike is the fact that it does not seem to work well 
>> with IE
>I view that as a plus :) And if IE is mandated at work, it's time to sling the 
>rez ... :)


If only administrators would change their mind and allow us poor IT users to 
select a different browser and make it the default browser.


--
Peter Hunkeler






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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

Which platform doesn't support ePubs?

I agree with comments others have made regarding consistent formatting of PDFs 
(at least, when the authors embed the fonts anyway), and the different aims of 
PDF vs e-reader formats (whatever they might be, excluding PDF!).

I've got readers for Android, Windows and Linux. I don't have an Apple device 
so can't comment on OSX or iOS, but I'd be extremely surprised if there wasn't 
one. For my money, ePubs are usually smaller than their PDF counterparts.

Like you, I don't really care one way or the other, but what I do want is an 
usable, fast, and intuitive interface to the manuals on the IBM site - I don't 
really have a need for manuals offline, because if I've got a connection to a 
mainframe, I'll have internet access as well. 

Andy Styles 
z/Series Systems Programmer
 
 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Peter Hunkeler
Sent: 08 July 2016 09:13
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: AW: Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
 

>Just out of curiosity, if ePubs of z/OS books provided all the same 
>functionalities as PDFs (same technical content, same methods for 
>obtaining/saving, etc.), plus had added benefits such as visual scaling and 
>accessibility, would you still be so adamant about keeping PDFs? 




Basically I don't care what format is used, what I *do care* is that I want one 
format for which there is a reader on just about any platform. I do not want to 
keep the same book in different formats for different platforms. As a matter of 
fact, there are PDF readers available on all platforms (at least I now about 
Linux, iOS, OSX, Windows, Android).


--
Peter Hunkeler





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Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
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AW: Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Peter Hunkeler]

>Just out of curiosity, if ePubs of z/OS books provided all the same 
>functionalities as PDFs (same technical content, same methods for 
>obtaining/saving, etc.), plus had added benefits such as visual scaling and 
>accessibility, would you still be so adamant about keeping PDFs?




Basically I don't care what format is used, what I *do care* is that I want one 
format for which there is a reader on just about any platform. I do not want to 
keep the same book in different formats for different platforms. As a matter of 
fact, there are PDF readers available on all platforms (at least I now about 
Linux, iOS, OSX, Windows, Android).


--
Peter Hunkeler





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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Sue Shumway, z/OS Product Documentation Lead, IBM Poughkeepsie]

Thanks, Andy. To reiterate for mass consumption what I said in my email to you, 
I'm sure that the Knowledge Center team is already aware of this problem and is 
working on it. Regardless, I forwarded your comment to them to point out a 
specific instance.

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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Tony Harminc]

On 7 July 2016 at 11:01, Sue Shumway  wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, if ePubs of z/OS books provided all the same 
> functionalities as PDFs (same technical content, same methods for 
> obtaining/saving, etc.), plus had added benefits such as visual scaling and 
> accessibility, would you still be so adamant about keeping PDFs?

It seems to me that the great claim-to-fame of PDFs is "print
fidelity", i.e. if you print or display a PDF document it looks
exactly the same as what the author intended, and is the same for
everyone on every device. Well everyone has seen this fail to some
extent, but still, it is a fundamental goal of the format. So fonts,
column spacing, page breaks, and of course colours on suitable devices
are *the same*, subject only to scaling and maybe font substitution if
necessary.

Other presentation formats have quite different goals. In particular,
HTML and friends are geared more to matching the content suitably to
the available presentation device, and I gather the ereader formats
are similar in this respect. For example exact pagination is not
maintained when you read a book on a Kindle; the text flow is more
important when you are reading a novel. Perhaps the author can enforce
some degree of fidelity, but I don't think it's a fundamental feature.

I'm not sure how important these goals are when talking of IBM pubs.
In the old .BOO format, tables often lost their alignment, and so for
example the descriptions of RACF return codes which have three levels
were often very hard to interpret in .BOO books, but always correct
(at least as correct as the author made them) in PDFs. Clearly reading
a print-fidelity document on a very small screen requiring much
windowing is no fun. But the layout does have to be maintained in
order to keep the technical results clear; these are for the most part
not novels or general text.

May I suggest you look at the RACF manual I mentioned above? It's
"SA23-2294-01 z/OS Security Server RACROUTE Macro Reference Version 2
Release 1". Drill down to "Chapter 3 System macros", then "RACROUTE
REQUEST=VERIFY (standard form)", and then "Return codes and reason
codes". The PDF version is "correct". See if/how you can get the
return and reason codes with their text descriptions to be readable on
several devices with various screen sizes.

Thanks,

Tony H.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

It's not visible - if I mouse over the place I know it to be, a tool tip pops 
up to tell me that it expands/hides the TOC. 

Andy Styles 
z/Series Systems Programmer 
 
 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Sue Shumway
Sent: 07 July 2016 15:53
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
 

Are you saying that the icon isn't visible at all on IE, or just as easy to 
miss as on any other browser? I opened 
http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2/en/homepage.html
 in both FF and IE, and they look technically the same on both, though I 
certainly realize that individual circumstances differ.

Per https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2GF0UFHIYG9VQ , Kindles currently 
support unzipped and validated ePubs and only those Mobis that are created with 
Amazon tools such as KindleGen. So, I believe that your Kindle, if you were in 
a pinch and had to use it, would be able to read a z/OS book in ePub format. 
It's a pretty widely-accepted format, and similar (even superior) to PDFs in 
many respects as long as you have a good reader.
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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

Sue Shumway wrote:

Just out of curiosity, if ePubs of z/OS books provided all the same 
functionalities as PDFs (same technical content, same methods for 
obtaining/saving, etc.), plus had added benefits such as visual scaling and 
accessibility, would you still be so adamant about keeping PDFs?


Everyone has PDF ... not everyone has other ePub methods. E.g., PDF works on OpenBSD but I don't know of other ePub 
methods that work.


Please keep IBM publications operating system agnostic.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Sue Shumway]

I'm in the other camp with a smartphone but no tablet, and I hate trying to 
zoom and pan my way around what is basically an image on my small screen. I'm 
probably in the minority these days without a tablet, but there's no reason to 
not plan for small smartphone screens anyway.

Just out of curiosity, if ePubs of z/OS books provided all the same 
functionalities as PDFs (same technical content, same methods for 
obtaining/saving, etc.), plus had added benefits such as visual scaling and 
accessibility, would you still be so adamant about keeping PDFs?

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Sue Shumway]

Are you saying that the icon isn't visible at all on IE, or just as easy to 
miss as on any other browser? I opened 
http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2/en/homepage.html
 in both FF and IE, and they look technically the same on both, though I 
certainly realize that individual circumstances differ.

Per https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A2GF0UFHIYG9VQ , Kindles currently 
support unzipped and validated ePubs and only those Mobis that are created with 
Amazon tools such as KindleGen. So, I believe that your Kindle, if you were in 
a pinch and had to use it, would be able to read a z/OS book in ePub format. 
It's a pretty widely-accepted format, and similar (even superior) to PDFs in 
many respects as long as you have a good reader.
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Re: AW: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

Peter Hunkeler wrote:

What I absoultely dislike is the fact that it does not seem to work well with IE

I view that as a plus :) And if IE is mandated at work, it's time to sling the 
rez ... :)

--
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www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Peter Hunkeler]

>Yes, PDFs can be rough on a mobile. What do you think of ePubs instead?




I'm reading PDFs on my iPad all the time. Works great, provided you're using a 
good app (Apples builtin apps are not my first choice). For PDFs I used to use 
FileApp and have no swithed to Readdle's "Document 5". Great app with excellent 
search within the PDF.


I don't own a smartphone, so no experience with this type of mobile device.


As for ePub format: Whatever IBM chooses, don't abandon PDF! As said elswhere, 
I'm always downloading PDFs, e.g. all of the z/OS bookshelves and books onto 
any platform I'll be regularly working on. And lack of IBM Library Reader, I 
use PDFs.


--
Peter Hunkeler


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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

From my point of view, that icon to open the TOC is not visible - I am forced 
to use IE at work without exception, so having something that doesn't work with 
it is a real pain. (IBM are not the only vendor that has trouble supporting IE!)

I like the idea of ePubs or any ereader format. I can’t remember what works 
with the Kindle, but I seem to recall either mobi or epubs don't. Having said 
that, I'm not planning to read manuals on my Kindle...


--
Andy Styles
  Original Message
From: Sue Shumway
Sent: Wednesday, 6 July 2016 19:42
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre


-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --


Sorry for coming late to this party. Let me address two items...


...  but I miss the tree-driven system ...


As others have pointed out in this thread, the new KC still has the tree 
structure TOC, same as in the old KC. It's just now closed by default. To 
display it on any page, click on the blue icon of five stacked irregular-length 
horizontal lines near the top left of the page. (FWIW, this and other 
potentially missable new features are explained in the short KC video tour that 
is linked on the KC main page - I *highly* recommend that all KC users, even 
IBMers, view it: http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/about/videotour.mp4 
.)


I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to expand 
'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.


Yes, PDFs can be rough on a mobile. What do you think of ePubs instead?

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Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

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Scotland no. SC218813.

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AW: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Peter Hunkeler]

I've been disliking the *old* KC so much that I almost always discarded any 
search result that pointed  to the KC.

I must admit that I do quite like the new KC. It is much faster than the old 
KC; I'd say very well usable. It provides good navigation posibilities *once* 
you get uses to open the tree view by clicking in the upper left corner. Search 
has given me good results do far. It's using a useful font size.
I like the fact that (sometimes) you can switch between z/OS Versions while 
staying at the current topic: Sometimes there is a little drop down besides the 
topic which alliow this switch.

What I absoultely dislike is the fact that it does not seem to work well with 
IE, probably when accessed from behind company paranoia firewall and filtering 
mechanisms.

I would like to see KC keeping the state of the tree view in a cookie. So I 
always get the last view I chose, which in a desktop probably would always be 
with the tree visible.

Been using it on Windows7 with IE (since I'm force to in the office), and 
Firefox at home. Also on my iPad using Safari and Mercury browsers. Those seem 
to have slight difficulties scrolling the tree view, but otherwise the KC works 
quite well on the iPad (iOS 9.3)


--Peter Hunkeler


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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Steve Horein]

This is the typical (and frustrating) result for me using IE 11:
http://imgur.com/Tlgwlx7

That large empty area to the left is where the tree TOC should be.
For me, it is not knowing how to find the tree style TOC, it is that is
outright absent.

If I hit refresh a number of times, the page will eventually function:
http://imgur.com/VIx2FfY

That's what we strive for, right? *Eventually* getting to the information
we need?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

My humble apologies.  I was looking at the stacked lines at the upper right.  
Sorry to add to the confusion. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 17:20, Walt Farrell  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 20:57:13 +, J R  wrote:
>> 
>> Both screenshots show the stacked line icon for me. Are you sure you are 
>> viewing the full width?
> 
> The stacked BLUE lines on the left side? I see those only on the second image 
> I provided. (Both have the stacked black/gray lines on the upper left.)
> 
> -- 
> Walt
> 
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Walt Farrell]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 20:57:13 +, J R  wrote:

>Both screenshots show the stacked line icon for me. Are you sure you are 
>viewing the full width?

The stacked BLUE lines on the left side? I see those only on the second image I 
provided. (Both have the stacked black/gray lines on the upper left.)

-- 
Walt

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

Both screenshots show the stacked line icon for me. Are you sure you are 
viewing the full width?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 16:28, Walt Farrell  wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 13:48:58 -0500, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA) 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you for the reply
> 
>> 1) I use IE as that is our corporate standard and we are not allowed to 
>> install anything else. This may be the cause but I cannot see 
>> the 5 stacked horizontal lines.
> 
> I can see them using IE, Lionel. However, it may depend on the URL you're 
> using. For example, using https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter I get 
> something that looks like this screenshot:
>   https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvgPdPZisZN3gQHF_Du2xiU67Yje
> where the stacked line icon is not available.
> 
> From there, though, you can select Products, search for z/OS, select a 
> release, and then the icon is available, as shown in this screenshot:
>  https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvgPdPZisZN3gQIMGMv2JpDNAEOe
> 
> (Those are from IE 11 on Windows 10, in case it makes a difference.)
> 
> -- 
> Walt
> 
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Walt Farrell]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2016 13:48:58 -0500, Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA)  
wrote:

>Thank you for the reply

>1) I use IE as that is our corporate standard and we are not allowed to 
>install anything else. This may be the cause but I cannot see 
>the 5 stacked horizontal lines.

I can see them using IE, Lionel. However, it may depend on the URL you're 
using. For example, using https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter I get 
something that looks like this screenshot:
   https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvgPdPZisZN3gQHF_Du2xiU67Yje
where the stacked line icon is not available.

From there, though, you can select Products, search for z/OS, select a release, 
and then the icon is available, as shown in this screenshot:
  https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvgPdPZisZN3gQIMGMv2JpDNAEOe

(Those are from IE 11 on Windows 10, in case it makes a difference.)

-- 
Walt

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Dyck, Lionel B. (TRA)]

Thank you for the reply

1) I use IE as that is our corporate standard and we are not allowed to install 
anything else. This may be the cause but I cannot see the 5 stacked horizontal 
lines.
2) I find the use of KC a significant degradation to the previous interface and 
given the amount of kvetching I'm wondering if a usability study was done on 
the new interface before releasing it - specifically having the target audience 
in the study.
3) I dislike PDF's on my mobile (iphone/ipad) but they work - an epub would be 
great providing the search and link capabilities were available.


--
Lionel B. Dyck (TRA Contractor)
Mainframe Systems Programmer 
Enterprise Infrastructure Support (Station 200) (005OP6.3.10)
VA OI Service Delivery & Engineering

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Sue Shumway
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 1:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

Sorry for coming late to this party. Let me address two items...


...  but I miss the tree-driven system ...


As others have pointed out in this thread, the new KC still has the tree 
structure TOC, same as in the old KC. It's just now closed by default. To 
display it on any page, click on the blue icon of five stacked irregular-length 
horizontal lines near the top left of the page. (FWIW, this and other 
potentially missable new features are explained in the short KC video tour that 
is linked on the KC main page - I *highly* recommend that all KC users, even 
IBMers, view it: http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/about/videotour.mp4 
.)


I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to expand 
'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.


Yes, PDFs can be rough on a mobile. What do you think of ePubs instead?

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Sue Shumway]

Sorry for coming late to this party. Let me address two items...


...  but I miss the tree-driven system ...


As others have pointed out in this thread, the new KC still has the tree 
structure TOC, same as in the old KC. It's just now closed by default. To 
display it on any page, click on the blue icon of five stacked irregular-length 
horizontal lines near the top left of the page. (FWIW, this and other 
potentially missable new features are explained in the short KC video tour that 
is linked on the KC main page - I *highly* recommend that all KC users, even 
IBMers, view it: http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/about/videotour.mp4 
.)


I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to expand 
'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.


Yes, PDFs can be rough on a mobile. What do you think of ePubs instead?

--
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[John McKown]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:12 AM, Scott Ford  wrote:

> Guys,
>
> Too bad we don't have a conversion program from PDF to .boo format
>
>
​What I'd like is a standards compliant, non-proprietary, source file for
all of the manuals. OK, to be honest, I wish that IBM would write their
books with software which writes LaTex output. And I would further like
them to put this output on a publicly accessible site​

​within IBM.COM which is managed with a free (gratis) SCM (source control
management) system such as Subversion so that I could: (1) render the
manual myself in my favorite format; (2) get a current copy of the ​manual
using the SCM as need; (3) make changes in my personal copy (for
hyper-linking) ; and (4) make any miscellaneous changes I feel are
necessary (i.e. include examples or explanations). This is very unlikely.
Another product, PostgreSQL, __used to__ have Web documentation which would
allow posting of user comments (moderated) on any page.


-- 
"Pessimism is a admirable quality in an engineer. Pessimistic people check
their work three times, because they're sure that something won't be right.
Optimistic people check once, trust in Solis-de to keep the ship safe, then
blow everyone up."
"I think you're mistaking the word optimistic for inept."
"They've got a similar ring to my ear."

>From "Star Nomad" by Lindsay Buroker:

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Scott Ford]

Guys,

Too bad we don't have a conversion program from PDF to .boo format

On Monday, July 4, 2016, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 23:18:15 +, J R wrote:
>
> >That just gives me a tax break.  I still have to pay for the service.
> >
> >> On Jul 4, 2016, at 18:42, Edward Finnell wrote:
> >>
> >> 634-5789? Actually, put them in business expense column and declare on
> >> itemized deductions.
> >>
> I thought Bitsavers would convert them.  But then you must pay shipping.
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 23:18:15 +, J R wrote:

>That just gives me a tax break.  I still have to pay for the service.   
>
>> On Jul 4, 2016, at 18:42, Edward Finnell wrote:
>> 
>> 634-5789? Actually, put them in business expense column and declare on  
>> itemized deductions.
>>  
I thought Bitsavers would convert them.  But then you must pay shipping.

-- gil

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

That just gives me a tax break.  I still have to pay for the service.   

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2016, at 18:42, Edward Finnell 
> <000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> 634-5789? Actually, put them in business expense column and declare on  
> itemized deductions.
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/4/2016 5:09:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> jayare...@hotmail.com writes:
> 
> do you  have an account number I can bill it to?  
> 
> 
> 
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Edward Finnell]

634-5789? Actually, put them in business expense column and declare on  
itemized deductions.
 
 
In a message dated 7/4/2016 5:09:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jayare...@hotmail.com writes:

do you  have an account number I can bill it to?  



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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

Edward, do you have an account number I can bill it to? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2016, at 17:42, Edward Finnell 
> <000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Since they're loose leaf(mostly) any 'office products' store can convert  
> them in a matter of minutes. Don't have to do all at once, maybe just when 
> you  need paper or toner?
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/a-capitol-fourth/home/
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/4/2016 4:31:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
> jayare...@hotmail.com writes:
> 
> but  that's very labor-intensive without specialized  equipment
> 
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Edward Finnell]

Since they're loose leaf(mostly) any 'office products' store can convert  
them in a matter of minutes. Don't have to do all at once, maybe just when 
you  need paper or toner?
 
http://www.pbs.org/a-capitol-fourth/home/
 
 
In a message dated 7/4/2016 4:31:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
jayare...@hotmail.com writes:

but  that's very labor-intensive without specialized  equipment

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

Yes, I will as soon as I get around to taking inventory.  So far I've only 
tossed out duplicates.  

My intention was to scan everything, but that's very labor-intensive without 
specialized equipment. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 4, 2016, at 16:16, Mike Schwab  wrote:
> 
> Bit savers would be interested in scans of old manuals.  Can you give
> them a list of what manuals you have?
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 8:03 PM, J R  wrote:
>> "
>> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
>> probably get over it. "
>> 
>> Guilty as charged!  I still have tree-sourced /360 manuals that I had in the 
>> '60s.  Every once in a while I appease my wife and grudgingly put one or two 
>> out for recycling.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 3, 2016, at 20:40, Jack J. Woehr 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> J R wrote:
>> And, even if I eventually do get everything downloaded, I have no idea how 
>> to organize it
>> 
>> I'm more or less a compulsive PDF downloader (and before that a compulsive 
>> bookshelf collector, still have sets from the 1990's)
>> but recently I've made my peace with IBM Knowledge Center. They're going to 
>> keep the info available, or if they don't, nobody
>> will be able to service their customers, and it's over.
>> 
>> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
>> probably get over it. It's a grand waste of time downloading
>> manuals we might need. I grab the ones I'm using and get the rest when I 
>> want them.
>> 
>> --
>> Jack J. Woehr
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Mike Schwab]

Bit savers would be interested in scans of old manuals.  Can you give
them a list of what manuals you have?

On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 8:03 PM, J R  wrote:
> "
> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
> probably get over it. "
>
> Guilty as charged!  I still have tree-sourced /360 manuals that I had in the 
> '60s.  Every once in a while I appease my wife and grudgingly put one or two 
> out for recycling.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 3, 2016, at 20:40, Jack J. Woehr > 
> wrote:
>
> J R wrote:
> And, even if I eventually do get everything downloaded, I have no idea how to 
> organize it
>
> I'm more or less a compulsive PDF downloader (and before that a compulsive 
> bookshelf collector, still have sets from the 1990's)
> but recently I've made my peace with IBM Knowledge Center. They're going to 
> keep the info available, or if they don't, nobody
> will be able to service their customers, and it's over.
>
> We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should 
> probably get over it. It's a grand waste of time downloading
> manuals we might need. I grab the ones I'm using and get the rest when I want 
> them.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr
>
> --
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Tony Harminc]

On 3 July 2016 at 18:35, Charles Mills  wrote:
> I can understand the move away from BookManager (as much as some of us loved 
> it). It was a proprietary
> technology and I am sure expensive to maintain.

I bet if IBM open-sourced Book Manager, or at least the ,BOO data
formats, it would get a lot better. Surely they aren't still making
money by selling that technology?

> But PDF is an industry standard. The technology is maintained by Adobe.

The problem I have is that IBM seems to be in bed with Adobe, and
depends on their specific implementation of PDF viewing capability.
Sort of like companies used to require Internet Explorer for their web
pages. I don't use the Adobe reader (I find it is ever more slow,
bloated, and bug-riddled), but some of the light weight and much
faster readers don't work with the IBM Adobe-proprietary index scheme.
I have asked IBM to not require Adobe's reader, and they don't seem
interested.

Tony H.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jantje.]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 09:57:04 +0100, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) 
 wrote:

>I'm curious about other people's views.
>
My view is: "KC s...s". Sorry to be so blunt. I have ranted about this before, 
but I am feeling more and more frustrated every time I have to use it.

>I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days. 
Better try Google. (Add site:ibm.com as a search term.) Fr better results 
than with the builtin search of KC.


>
>I'm currently looking for the z/OS 2.1 MVS Data Areas manuals (specifically 
>for IXLYAMDA) 
 Is http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/dgt3da01.pdf of any help? (I found 
it through Google and and lot of clicking...)



>
>To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm 
>spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!
>
>Is it just me?

No.


Cheers,

Jantje.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Cannaerts, Jan]

Charles Mills wrote:
>There must be some members here under thirty.

Hi, 24.

>Do YOU like Knowledge Center?

After I found out that the top left button opens the drop down menu of old,
I stopped thinking it was completely worthless. It still makes very poor use
of screen estate, 4:3 is ancient. If you can make your page work on the many
different mobile screen sizes, you can support the two different desktop 
screen sizes as well.

But I find KC to be easier to dwell in than the PDFs. E.g: scrolling through
the different assembler services, I learn about the existence of functions
that I'd otherwise have to read an entire PDF for. That doesn't mean I know
their ins and outs. But knowing they're there, I can potentially apply them 
when faced with a problem in the future. Rather than having to go look for
them when the problem arises, or using another less suited, solution, because
that's all that I knew at the time.

I still use Google to search the KC. I think I've used the KC's search
Function maybe three times.

--
Jan

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

"
We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should probably 
get over it. "

Guilty as charged!  I still have tree-sourced /360 manuals that I had in the 
'60s.  Every once in a while I appease my wife and grudgingly put one or two 
out for recycling.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 3, 2016, at 20:40, Jack J. Woehr > 
wrote:

J R wrote:
And, even if I eventually do get everything downloaded, I have no idea how to 
organize it

I'm more or less a compulsive PDF downloader (and before that a compulsive 
bookshelf collector, still have sets from the 1990's)
but recently I've made my peace with IBM Knowledge Center. They're going to 
keep the info available, or if they don't, nobody
will be able to service their customers, and it's over.

We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should probably 
get over it. It's a grand waste of time downloading
manuals we might need. I grab the ones I'm using and get the rest when I want 
them.

--
Jack J. Woehr

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

J R wrote:

And, even if I eventually do get everything downloaded, I have no idea how to 
organize it


I'm more or less a compulsive PDF downloader (and before that a compulsive bookshelf collector, still have sets from the 
1990's)
but recently I've made my peace with IBM Knowledge Center. They're going to keep the info available, or if they don't, 
nobody

will be able to service their customers, and it's over.

We programmers just tend to be highly nervous packrats, and we should probably get over it. It's a grand waste of time 
downloading

manuals we might need. I grab the ones I'm using and get the rest when I want 
them.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[J R]

I'm fine with PDFs (KC not so much) but, despite several posts of where/how to 
download all z/OS manuals in one fell swoop, I've yet to manage that feat to a 
mobile device.  And, even if I eventually do get everything downloaded, I have 
no idea how to organize it so that it's useful.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 3, 2016, at 18:49, Jack J. Woehr  wrote:
> 
> Charles Mills wrote:
>> I can understand the move away from BookManager (as much as some of us loved 
>> it). It was a proprietary technology and I am sure expensive to maintain. 
>> But PDF is an industry standard. The technology is maintained by Adobe.
> 
> The PDF's are all still there.
> 
> -- 
> Jack J. Woehr

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Charles Mills]

True, but it seems like they are hoping we won't find them. 

Seriously, the direction seems to be away from PDF and to -- what would you 
call it? -- proprietary Web?

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jack J. Woehr
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2016 3:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

Charles Mills wrote:
> I can understand the move away from BookManager (as much as some of us loved 
> it). It was a proprietary technology and I am sure expensive to maintain. But 
> PDF is an industry standard. The technology is maintained by Adobe.

The PDF's are all still there.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

Charles Mills wrote:

I can understand the move away from BookManager (as much as some of us loved 
it). It was a proprietary technology and I am sure expensive to maintain. But 
PDF is an industry standard. The technology is maintained by Adobe.


The PDF's are all still there.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Charles Mills]

Is the below actually relevant to the situation? There must be some members 
here under thirty. Do YOU like Knowledge Center? Does anyone know any young 
WebSphere or Java developers? (Yes, I realize the two technologies are not 
exclusive.)? Do THEY like Knowledge Center?

I can understand the move away from BookManager (as much as some of us loved 
it). It was a proprietary technology and I am sure expensive to maintain. But 
PDF is an industry standard. The technology is maintained by Adobe.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jack J. Woehr
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 8:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre



But I think IBM is reaching out to a younger market. We're a bunch of old 
farts. This is a move to mobile. I remember sitting around IBM Boulder 20 years 
ago listening to a 67-year-old and excellent IBM VM programmer rant about how 
useless GUIs are. Now he's gone and I'm 64.

You gotta make way for youth, they only know what they know. We can adapt to 
their world. Or retire. But complaining is self-abuse.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre and Browsers

[nitz-ibm]

> Assuming you can *find* the damned PDFs! That takes a while now. Sad what
> IBM has become.
Try Pubcenter: 
http://www-05.ibm.com/e-business/linkweb/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?CTY=DE
(and don't use the DE at the end).
Barbara

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Edward Gould]

> On Jul 2, 2016, at 10:56 PM, Jack J. Woehr  wrote:
> 
> Charles Mills wrote:
> 
>>At a company apparently so into customer satisfaction.
>> 

Whoa wait a second, the last time IBM asked for a survey on here I was unable 
to take it and they couldn’t/wouldn’t give a reason. Just that I was out of 
luck.
Since then I have refused to take part of survey’s as obviously IBM doesn’t 
care about customers anymore.

Ed

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

Charles Mills wrote:


At a company apparently so into customer satisfaction.



Again, if you click the little weird blue widget in the upper left, you get 
essentially the same drop-down view of the
libraries to read online or download PDF's as you always got. Just the style 
sheet and javascript have changed.

The search engine sucks badly. Google does better for me at finding IBM stuff 
than IBM's own engine.
What is Watson up to? Get his silicon a** busy on the search engine ...

But I think IBM is reaching out to a younger market. We're a bunch of old 
farts. This is a move to mobile. I remember
sitting around IBM Boulder 20 years ago listening to a 67-year-old and 
excellent IBM VM programmer rant about how useless
GUIs are. Now he's gone and I'm 64.

You gotta make way for youth, they only know what they know. We can adapt to their world. Or retire. But complaining is 
self-abuse.


--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre and Browsers

[zMan]

Assuming you can *find* the damned PDFs! That takes a while now. Sad what
IBM has become.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:14 AM, nitz-ibm  wrote:

> > * Disable any script blocker. *
>
> Well, if you only allow cookies selectively, then it is hell browsing IBM
> websites if you are forced into disabling script blockers. I should know, I
> get forced into using IE with scripts enabled (cannot disable them). What
> happens is that there is a general script on *all* IBM websites that tells
> you that you can configure cookies, and of course allowing IBM to litter
> the computer liberally with cookies is the default. If you only allow the
> cookies needed for the website to function, you're forced to twiddle your
> thumbs for more than a minute. And again if you happen to switch from an
> ibm.com to an ibm.de website. I hate it. Not to mention that even SIS
> didn't work properly under IE.
>
> As for knowledge center - I avoid it whenever I can. I'd rather use the
> pdfs (which I also heartily dislike), but for fast and easy information
> retrieval I still go back to the 1.13 bookmanager books residing on my own
> private toy laptop (that will never see the internet since it runs W10). As
> time goes by, I'll be forced more and more into the pdfs, though. At that
> time the toy laptop will switch to Debian. :-)
>
> The internet isn't anymore what it used to be, as far as I am concerned.
>
> Barbara
>
> --
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-- 
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Charles Mills]

At a company apparently so into customer satisfaction. 
CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity

 Original message 
From: zMan <zedgarhoo...@gmail.com> 
Date: 7/2/16  6:57 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre 

What Vignesh said. Good lord, this is unusable. Assuming the mostly broken
search even finds something that sounds plausible, you click through and if
it's not right, your only option is to go back and try again. And you don't
even get back to where you were when you do so!

What is wrong with people who go to all this trouble to design interfaces
that are broken? And how does anyone sign off on such an "improvement"??

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh <
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com> wrote:

> It made sense when there was a tree structure to the left; it was easy to
> navigate.
> Now the entire page is just a tiny section of a paragraph or something.
> Not helpful!
> By default, nowadays, I Google "os-version elements and features" which
> leads me to the PDF's.
>
> – Vignesh
> Mainframe Infrastructure
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Jack J. Woehr
> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:34 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre
>
> Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> > PDF!?  On a mobile!?
> >
> > It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!
>
> I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to
> expand 'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.
>
> Truth is, I sympathize with IBM. The younger programmers have a totally
> different visual and spacial mindset about information presentation.
>
> We wonder why they don't turn onto mainframes. It's partly because they
> can't parse the views.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human
> fallibility. - Carl Sagan
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
> 
>  Unless otherwise stated above:
> Marks and Spencer plc
> Registered Office:
> Waterside House
> 35 North Wharf Road
> London
> W2 1NW
>
> Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.
>
> Telephone (020) 7935 4422
> Facsimile (020) 7487 2670
>
> www.marksandspencer.com
>
> Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.
>
> This e-mail is confidential. If you received it by mistake, please let us
> know and then delete it from your system; you should not copy, disclose, or
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[zMan]

What Vignesh said. Good lord, this is unusable. Assuming the mostly broken
search even finds something that sounds plausible, you click through and if
it's not right, your only option is to go back and try again. And you don't
even get back to where you were when you do so!

What is wrong with people who go to all this trouble to design interfaces
that are broken? And how does anyone sign off on such an "improvement"??

On Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh <
vignesh.v.sankaranaraya...@marks-and-spencer.com> wrote:

> It made sense when there was a tree structure to the left; it was easy to
> navigate.
> Now the entire page is just a tiny section of a paragraph or something.
> Not helpful!
> By default, nowadays, I Google "os-version elements and features" which
> leads me to the PDF's.
>
> – Vignesh
> Mainframe Infrastructure
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Jack J. Woehr
> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:34 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre
>
> Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> > PDF!?  On a mobile!?
> >
> > It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!
>
> I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to
> expand 'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.
>
> Truth is, I sympathize with IBM. The younger programmers have a totally
> different visual and spacial mindset about information presentation.
>
> We wonder why they don't turn onto mainframes. It's partly because they
> can't parse the views.
>
> --
> Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
> www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the
> universe www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human
> fallibility. - Carl Sagan
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> MARKSANDSPENCER.COM
> 
>  Unless otherwise stated above:
> Marks and Spencer plc
> Registered Office:
> Waterside House
> 35 North Wharf Road
> London
> W2 1NW
>
> Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.
>
> Telephone (020) 7935 4422
> Facsimile (020) 7487 2670
>
> www.marksandspencer.com
>
> Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.
>
> This e-mail is confidential. If you received it by mistake, please let us
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre and Browsers

[nitz-ibm]

> * Disable any script blocker. *

Well, if you only allow cookies selectively, then it is hell browsing IBM 
websites if you are forced into disabling script blockers. I should know, I get 
forced into using IE with scripts enabled (cannot disable them). What happens 
is that there is a general script on *all* IBM websites that tells you that you 
can configure cookies, and of course allowing IBM to litter the computer 
liberally with cookies is the default. If you only allow the cookies needed for 
the website to function, you're forced to twiddle your thumbs for more than a 
minute. And again if you happen to switch from an ibm.com to an ibm.de website. 
I hate it. Not to mention that even SIS didn't work properly under IE. 

As for knowledge center - I avoid it whenever I can. I'd rather use the pdfs 
(which I also heartily dislike), but for fast and easy information retrieval I 
still go back to the 1.13 bookmanager books residing on my own private toy 
laptop (that will never see the internet since it runs W10). As time goes by, 
I'll be forced more and more into the pdfs, though. At that time the toy laptop 
will switch to Debian. :-)

The internet isn't anymore what it used to be, as far as I am concerned.

Barbara

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh]

It made sense when there was a tree structure to the left; it was easy to 
navigate.
Now the entire page is just a tiny section of a paragraph or something. Not 
helpful!
By default, nowadays, I Google "os-version elements and features" which leads 
me to the PDF's.

– Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jack J. Woehr
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2016 1:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> PDF!?  On a mobile!?
>
> It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!

I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to expand 
'em but sometimes you gotta have the answer right now.

Truth is, I sympathize with IBM. The younger programmers have a totally 
different visual and spacial mindset about information presentation.

We wonder why they don't turn onto mainframes. It's partly because they can't 
parse the views.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe 
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

Paul Gilmartin wrote:

PDF!?  On a mobile!?

It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!


I read PDF's on my mobile all the time. Spend a lot of time swiping to expand 'em but sometimes you gotta have the 
answer right now.


Truth is, I sympathize with IBM. The younger programmers have a totally different visual and spacial mindset about 
information presentation.


We wonder why they don't turn onto mainframes. It's partly because they can't 
parse the views.

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 07:10:35 -0600, Jack J. Woehr wrote:

>Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:
>> I'm curious about other people's views.
>>
>> I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days.
>Congratulations to IBM on making the KC almost unusable to actual users in an 
>attempt to make it mobile-friendly.
>
+1.  I don't use mobile, but the fluff I see with a browser ought to be 
unwelcome
on mobile.  Or do they detect viewer type and conditionally redact it?

>Here's how I use it: Starting at http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/
> 
Thanks.  That matches the OP's expressed desire for not only the end result but 
also
a procedure.  Cf. your .sig.

* Disable any script blocker. *
> 1. Click on Products in the bar upper right.
> 2. Choose z/OS
> 3. Select version, e.g., 2.2.0
Many pages nowadays have a popup list that lets you select 2.2 or 2.1; rarely 
older.
Still valuable.
> 4. Click the weird little blue widget in the upper left which is a 
> mobile-style drop down menu.
Dammit! that thingy ought to be labelled; "TOC" or such!
> 5. Click the plus to open a view of a product.
> 6. Click the product name to get at the list of docs with the PDF links.
> 
PDF!?  On a mobile!?

It's OK when you get there, I guess, but they wanna make you earn it!
>
>--
>Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
>www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
>www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl 
>Sagan

-- gil

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Re: EXTERNAL: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Charles Mills]

Might a better question be "is there anyone who DISAGREES?"


CharlesSent from a mobile; please excuse the brevity

 Original message 
From: Jerry Whitteridge <jerry.whitteri...@safeway.com> 
Date: 7/1/16  8:51 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: IBM Knowledge Centre 

Nope - not just you

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: IBM Knowledge Centre

I'm curious about other people's views.

I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days. I'm 
finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals that look 
something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to bookmark it immediately 
for fear of never finding it again.

I'm currently looking for the z/OS 2.1 MVS Data Areas manuals (specifically for 
IXLYAMDA) - back in the old days, it was easy.. now I can't find the damn 
things.

To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm 
spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!

Is it just me?

Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer




Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You 
must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any 
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Re: EXTERNAL: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Nope - not just you

Jerry Whitteridge
Manager Mainframe Systems & Storage
Albertsons - Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:57 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: IBM Knowledge Centre

I'm curious about other people's views.

I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days. I'm 
finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals that look 
something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to bookmark it immediately 
for fear of never finding it again.

I'm currently looking for the z/OS 2.1 MVS Data Areas manuals (specifically for 
IXLYAMDA) - back in the old days, it was easy.. now I can't find the damn 
things.

To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm 
spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!

Is it just me?

Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer




Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You 
must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any 
attachments. Telephone calls may be monitored or recorded.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Lizette Koehler]

I might open an SR to the Assembler Language product for the Data Areas and
complain that way.

They may be more able to help.

Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)
> Sent: Friday, July 01, 2016 1:57 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: IBM Knowledge Centre
> 
> I'm curious about other people's views.
> 
> I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days. I'm
> finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals that look
> something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to bookmark it
> immediately for fear of never finding it again.
> 
> I'm currently looking for the z/OS 2.1 MVS Data Areas manuals (specifically
> for IXLYAMDA) - back in the old days, it was easy.. now I can't find the damn
> things.
> 
> To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm
> spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!
> 
> Is it just me?
> 
> Andy Styles
> z/Series Systems Programmer
> 
> 

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Jack J. Woehr]

Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:

I'm curious about other people's views.

I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days.

Congratulations to IBM on making the KC almost unusable to actual users in an 
attempt to make it mobile-friendly.

Here's how I use it: Starting at http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/

1. Click on Products in the bar upper right.
2. Choose z/OS
3. Select version, e.g., 2.2.0
4. Click the weird little blue widget in the upper left which is a mobile-style 
drop down menu.
5. Click the plus to open a view of a product.
6. Click the product name to get at the list of docs with the PDF links.


--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan


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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Bigendian Smalls]

While we are piling on, I agree - it’s pretty miserable (and still full of 
broken links).The only reasonable way to find anything these days is 
searching one at a time (which works fairly well) but I miss the tree-driven 
system, and generally revert to the PDFs now constantly.

Chad


> On Jul 1, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Staller, Allan  
> wrote:
> 
> Agreed!
> 
> 
> 
> To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm 
> spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!
> 
> This email ? including attachments ? may contain confidential information. If 
> you are not the intended recipient, do not copy, distribute or act on it. 
> Instead, notify the sender immediately and delete the message.
> 
> --
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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Staller, Allan]

Agreed!



To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm 
spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!

This email – including attachments – may contain confidential information. If 
you are not the intended recipient, do not copy, distribute or act on it. 
Instead, notify the sender immediately and delete the message.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

> Just don't try to use it with IE (up to IE11), use Firefox, Chrome or 
> whatever, just not IE.

Damn. IE11 is all I've got (am allowed) on my work machine :(

Andy Styles 
z/Series Systems Programmer


Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You 
must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any 
attachments. Telephone calls may be monitored or recorded.

--
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AW: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Peter Hunkeler]

>The search in KC, which provides links to pages in manuals it's found, appears 
>to only provide the Data Areas manuals for 2.2.



It seems to me that the Data Areas manuals are missing again in the z/OS V2.1 
MVS bookshelf. Has happened before. The are there in the z/OS V2.2 bookshelf 
(yes, I'm talking about the new KC).




I've been ignoring the old KC because I considered it unusable and extreemely 
slow. But the new KC is much better once you find out how it works, especially 
the new touchy-touchy-like menu button at the upper left. If feel at home, but 
must say I save the link to the z/OS V2.1 bookshelf part:


http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.1.0




Just don't try to use it with IE (up to IE11), use Firefox, Chrome or whatever, 
just not IE.




--
Peter Hunkeler



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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

Yep, in the original link you gave, that has everything I need. 

The search in KC, which provides links to pages in manuals it's found, appears 
to only provide the Data Areas manuals for 2.2. 

Andy Styles 
z/Series Systems Programmer
 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Leopold Strauss
Sent: 01 July 2016 11:32
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
 

I am not sure, what you want.

But in the 2.1-link , which I sent you, I found the info in dataareas vol 4.

Sorry, following is ex dataareas-vol4-pdf-files and therefore not pretty. It 
should only be a provement for you, that the info you want is there.

IXLYAMDA Map
Offsets
Dec Hex Type/Value Len Name (Dim) Description
0 (0) STRUCTURE 0 IXLYAMDAREA Data area returned to caller
0 (0) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDAREA_LENGTH
Length of IXLYAMDAREA header mapping
4 (4) ADDRESS 4 IXLYAMDAREA_CFENT@
Address of first CF entry. A value of zero means that no CF entries were 
provided
8 (8) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDAREA_TLEN
Total length of output data area needed to contain all the requested 
information.
This length includes the area for the records that WERE returned on this call.
12 (C) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDAREA_#ENT
Total number of entries of all kinds (not including the header)
16 (10) BITSTRING 1 IXLYAMDAREA_VERSION
Version number - Maximum CFLEVEL supported by MVS on system where IXLMG was 
invoked. Can be used to determine if specific fields have valid information. 
See notes in prolog for more information
17 (11) CHARACTER 3 Unused
17 (11) X'14' 0 IXLYAMDAREA_LEN
"*-IXLYAMDAREA"
626 z/OS V2R1 Data Areas Volume 4 (IRARMCTZ -LCT) IXLYAMDA Map Offsets Dec Hex 
Type/Value Len Name (Dim) Description
0 (0) STRUCTURE 0 IXLYAMDHD Common header mapping for IXLYAMDA entries
0 (0) BITSTRING 1 IXLYAMDHD_TYPE
Type of entry
1 (1) CHARACTER 3 Unused
4 (4) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDHD_LENGTH
Length of entry
8 (8) ADDRESS 4 IXLYAMDHD_NEXT
Address of next entry.
Comment
EntryTypes

On 01.07.2016 12:05, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:
> Sort of - the manuals where that search finds the information I'm looking for 
> appear to be for z/OS 2.2; the z/OS 2.1 ones (which is what I want) in that 
> list are the manuals for the IXLMG macro that I've already found (and they 
> simply refer back to the BookManager versions for the data areas!).
>
>
> Andy Styles
> z/Series Systems Programmer
>   
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Patrick Hayward
> Sent: 01 July 2016 10:57
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre
>
> -- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
>   
>
> Dies this help
> http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/IXLYAMDA
>
> Patrick
> Patrick Hayward, Code Magus Limited <http://www.codemagus.com> 
> (England  reg. no. 4024745) Number 6, 69 Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 
> 6EY, United Kingdom
> *Voice:* +44 1844 208127 *Mobile:* +44 7711 273014 *Fax:* +44 1865 
> 316979
>
>
> On 01/07/16 09:57, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:
>> I'm curious about other people's views.
>>
>> I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these 
>> days. I'm finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of 
>> manuals that look something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I 
>> have to bookmark
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
> Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 
> 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. 
> Lloyds Bank plc. Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 
> 7HN. Registered in England and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. 
> Bank of Scotland plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
> Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. Telephone: 03457 801 801. 
> Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: Barnett Way, 
> Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
> Telephone: 0345 603 1637
>
> Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
> Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
> Prudential Regulation Authority.
>
> Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
> Conduct Authority.
>
> Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester 
> Savings is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.
>
> HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registe

Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Leopold Strauss]

I am not sure, what you want.

But in the 2.1-link , which I sent you, I found the info in dataareas vol 4.

Sorry, following is ex dataareas-vol4-pdf-files and therefore not 
pretty. It should only be a provement for you, that the info you want is 
there.


IXLYAMDA Map
Offsets
Dec Hex Type/Value Len Name (Dim) Description
0 (0) STRUCTURE 0 IXLYAMDAREA Data area returned to caller
0 (0) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDAREA_LENGTH
Length of IXLYAMDAREA header mapping
4 (4) ADDRESS 4 IXLYAMDAREA_CFENT@
Address of first CF entry. A value of zero means that no CF entries were
provided
8 (8) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDAREA_TLEN
Total length of output data area needed to contain all the requested 
information.
This length includes the area for the records that WERE returned on this 
call.

12 (C) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDAREA_#ENT
Total number of entries of all kinds (not including the header)
16 (10) BITSTRING 1 IXLYAMDAREA_VERSION
Version number - Maximum CFLEVEL supported by MVS on system where
IXLMG was invoked. Can be used to determine if specific fields have valid
information. See notes in prolog for more information
17 (11) CHARACTER 3 Unused
17 (11) X'14' 0 IXLYAMDAREA_LEN
"*-IXLYAMDAREA"
626 z/OS V2R1 Data Areas Volume 4 (IRARMCTZ -LCT)
IXLYAMDA Map
Offsets
Dec Hex Type/Value Len Name (Dim) Description
0 (0) STRUCTURE 0 IXLYAMDHD Common header mapping for IXLYAMDA entries
0 (0) BITSTRING 1 IXLYAMDHD_TYPE
Type of entry
1 (1) CHARACTER 3 Unused
4 (4) SIGNED 4 IXLYAMDHD_LENGTH
Length of entry
8 (8) ADDRESS 4 IXLYAMDHD_NEXT
Address of next entry.
Comment
EntryTypes

On 01.07.2016 12:05, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:

Sort of - the manuals where that search finds the information I'm looking for 
appear to be for z/OS 2.2; the z/OS 2.1 ones (which is what I want) in that 
list are the manuals for the IXLMG macro that I've already found (and they 
simply refer back to the BookManager versions for the data areas!).


Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer
  



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Patrick Hayward
Sent: 01 July 2016 10:57
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
  


Dies this help
http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/IXLYAMDA

Patrick
Patrick Hayward, Code Magus Limited <http://www.codemagus.com> (England  reg. 
no. 4024745) Number 6, 69 Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 6EY, United Kingdom
*Voice:* +44 1844 208127 *Mobile:* +44 7711 273014 *Fax:* +44 1865 316979


On 01/07/16 09:57, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:

I'm curious about other people's views.

I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these
days. I'm finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals
that look something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to
bookmark

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England and 
Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered Office: 
The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. Telephone: 03457 
801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: Barnett Way, 
Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. Telephone: 0345 603 
1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You 
must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any 
attachments. Telephone calls may be monitored or recorded.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Kind Regards,
Leopold Strauss, Team DEV-zOS, T: +43-2236-27551-331


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send email

Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Leopold Strauss]

IXLYAMDA Heading Information
Common Name: Accounting and Measurement Data Area
Macro ID: IXLYAMDA
DSECT Name: IXLYAMDAREA IXLYAMDCF IXLYAMDCF1 IXLYAMDSLL IXLYAMDSLL1 
IXLYAMDSLC

IXLYAMDSLC1 IXLYAMDSTRL IXLYAMDSTRL1 IXLYAMDSTRC IXLYAMDSTRC1
IXLYAMDCFMI IXLYAMDCFMINFO IXLYAMDCFRF @LAA IXLYAMDCFCP
IXLYAMDCFCPInfo IXLYAMDSCSC IXLYAMDSCSC1 IXLYAMDSCOC IXLYAMDSCOCSTATS
IXLYAMDSC IXLYAMDSC1 IXLYAMDHD IXLYAMDSSCC @L5A IXLYAMDSSCM @LQA
Owning Component: Cross System Extended Services (SCIXL)
Eye-Catcher ID: NONE
Storage Attributes: Subpool: User-supplied
Key: User-supplied
Residency: User-supplied
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/v2r2pdf/#IEA


Size: Variable
IXLYAMDSSCM -- X’0100’ bytes
IXLYAMDSSCC -- X’0238’ bytes
IXLYAMDSLL1 -- X’00A4’ bytes
IXLYAMDSLC1 -- X’0040’ bytes
IXLYAMDSCSC1 -- X’00C0’ bytes
IXLYAMDAREA -- X’0014’ bytes
IXLYAMDHD -- X’000C’ bytes
IXLYAMDCF -- X’0130’ bytes
IXLYAMDCF1 -- X’01B0’ bytes
IXLYAMDSLL -- X’0024’ bytes
IXLYAMDSLC -- X’0024’ bytes
IXLYAMDCFMI -- X’0010’ bytes
IXLYAMDCFMINFO -- X’0044’ bytes
IXLYAMDCFRF -- X’0100’ bytes
IXLYAMDCFCP -- X’0018’ bytes
IXLYAMDCFCPINFO -- X’0040’ bytes
IXLYAMDSTRL -- X’0108’ bytes
IXLYAMDSTRL1 -- X’0188’ bytes
IXLYAMDSTRC -- X’00F4’ bytes
IXLYAMDSTRC1 -- X’0174’ bytes
IXLYAMDSCSC -- X’0078’ bytes
IXLYAMDSCOC -- X’0010’ bytes
IXLYAMDSCOCSTATS -- X’0004’ bytes
IXLYAMDSC -- X’0044’ bytes
IXLYAMDSC1 -- X’0080’ bytes
See declares
Created by: IXLA1MG
Pointed to by: DATAAREA_ADDR field in MG parameter list
Serialization: None required
Function: Maps facility, structure, and subchannel accounting and
measurement data returned by the LFSS Measurement Gatherer
Service (IXLMG).
©


On 01.07.2016 12:05, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:

Sort of - the manuals where that search finds the information I'm looking for 
appear to be for z/OS 2.2; the z/OS 2.1 ones (which is what I want) in that 
list are the manuals for the IXLMG macro that I've already found (and they 
simply refer back to the BookManager versions for the data areas!).


Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer
  



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Patrick Hayward
Sent: 01 July 2016 10:57
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
  


Dies this help
http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/IXLYAMDA

Patrick
Patrick Hayward, Code Magus Limited <http://www.codemagus.com> (England  reg. 
no. 4024745) Number 6, 69 Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 6EY, United Kingdom
*Voice:* +44 1844 208127 *Mobile:* +44 7711 273014 *Fax:* +44 1865 316979


On 01/07/16 09:57, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:

I'm curious about other people's views.

I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these
days. I'm finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals
that look something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to
bookmark

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Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England and 
Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered Office: 
The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. Telephone: 03457 
801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: Barnett Way, 
Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. Telephone: 0345 603 
1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

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Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Kind Regards,
Leopold Strauss, Team DEV-zOS, T: 

Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

Sort of - the manuals where that search finds the information I'm looking for 
appear to be for z/OS 2.2; the z/OS 2.1 ones (which is what I want) in that 
list are the manuals for the IXLMG macro that I've already found (and they 
simply refer back to the BookManager versions for the data areas!).


Andy Styles 
z/Series Systems Programmer 
 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Patrick Hayward
Sent: 01 July 2016 10:57
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
 

Dies this help
http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/IXLYAMDA

Patrick
Patrick Hayward, Code Magus Limited <http://www.codemagus.com> (England  reg. 
no. 4024745) Number 6, 69 Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 6EY, United Kingdom
*Voice:* +44 1844 208127 *Mobile:* +44 7711 273014 *Fax:* +44 1865 316979


On 01/07/16 09:57, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:
> I'm curious about other people's views.
>
> I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these 
> days. I'm finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals 
> that look something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to 
> bookmark

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
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Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You 
must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any 
attachments. Telephone calls may be monitored or recorded.

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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Patrick Hayward]

Dies this help
http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/search/IXLYAMDA

Patrick
Patrick Hayward, Code Magus Limited  (England  reg. 
no. 4024745)
Number 6, 69 Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 6EY, United Kingdom
*Voice:* +44 1844 208127 *Mobile:* +44 7711 273014 *Fax:* +44 1865 316979


On 01/07/16 09:57, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:

I'm curious about other people's views.

I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days. I'm 
finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals that look 
something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to bookmark


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

Thanks for that link! 

I find it incredibly frustrating that I couldn't find something like that 
myself using the links in KC, not through the apparent "search" facility!

Thanks again. 


Andy Styles 
z/Series Systems Programmer
 
 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Leopold Strauss
Sent: 01 July 2016 10:03
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

-- This email has reached the Bank via an external source --
 

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/v2r1pdf/#IEA.

On 01.07.2016 10:57, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:
> Data Areas


--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Kind Regards, Leopold Strauss, Team DEV-zOS, T: 
+43-2236-27551-331

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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
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Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You 
must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any 
attachments. Telephone calls may be monitored or recorded.


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Re: IBM Knowledge Centre

[Leopold Strauss]

http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/zos/library/bkserv/v2r1pdf/#IEA.

On 01.07.2016 10:57, Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform) wrote:

Data Areas



--
Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Kind Regards,
Leopold Strauss, Team DEV-zOS, T: +43-2236-27551-331

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IBM Knowledge Centre

[Styles, Andy (SD EP zPlatform)]

I'm curious about other people's views.

I'm struggling to find anything I want in the Knowledge Centre these days. I'm 
finding that if I happen to stumble across a list of manuals that look 
something like the old BookManager bookshelf, I have to bookmark it immediately 
for fear of never finding it again.

I'm currently looking for the z/OS 2.1 MVS Data Areas manuals (specifically for 
IXLYAMDA) - back in the old days, it was easy.. now I can't find the damn 
things.

To me, the KC is a big pile of steamy stuff, and isn't fit for purpose. I'm 
spending more time searching for the documentation than actually using it!

Is it just me?

Andy Styles
z/Series Systems Programmer




Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. 
Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. 
Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England 
and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered 
Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. 
Telephone: 03457 801 801. Cheltenham & Gloucester plc. Registered Office: 
Barnett Way, Gloucester GL4 3RL. Registered in England and Wales 2299428. 
Telephone: 0345 603 1637

Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc are authorised by the Prudential 
Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and 
Prudential Regulation Authority.

Cheltenham & Gloucester plc is authorised and regulated by the Financial 
Conduct Authority.

Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. Cheltenham & Gloucester Savings 
is a division of Lloyds Bank plc.

HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in 
Scotland no. SC218813.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may 
contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please 
notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You 
must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any 
attachments. Telephone calls may be monitored or recorded.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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